Transcription
What's the average amount of money you make for those that maybe are new to this space and they're learning and they're kind of using this as a way to like launch and learn? What do you see as like an average commission?
A decent producer independent can probably do anywhere from two to four, two to five million without any sort of real, real credibility marketing. The average producer that I see that's full-time in annuities is probably making anywhere from 150 to 300,000 in income a year by doing it correctly.
[Applause] [Music]
What is up? Welcome back to the CA Power Player podcast. I'm your host, Cody Askins, and today we have one of our, like, this cat ain't no normal Power Player, bro. Like, he is amazing. He's accomplished ridiculous stuff in the retirement side of our industry, and so I'm super excited to kind of like talk through his story, what he's accomplished, and what he's doing. So please welcome, making annuities great again, Mr. Rodrigo Gil.
What's up, sir?
Yes, sir. Hey Cody, how are you?
I am great, buddy. Good to see you, man. Um, I've been, I've been impressed with you, man, ever since we first met. I could tell that there was something extremely unique about you. You know what I mean? Um, you, you've, you know, you've also accomplished a lot, which is, which is cool. Did you ever expect, did you ever anticipate that you would have the success that you are having, like when you were growing up and early in your career?
You know, I just turned 40, and I'm actually kind of uh disappointed I'm not further ahead, to be honest. So, you know, I, I'm very blessed. You know, I give thanks. I wouldn't change anything uh except myself, you know I mean? I'm, you know, I'm dealing with my procrastination and my bad habits. Um, but yeah, so but but very blessed. Yeah, I, I was actually thinking that on the way driving this morning. I'm like, man, I'm 34, I'm almost 35, like, man, you know, it's funny. You know, it was a real eye opener. I was at the um Apple Market grocery store in Rogersville, Missouri yesterday. My mom's like, hey, can you pick up some orange juice and some mozzarella cheese? Buffalo mozzarella cheese, whatever, for what? I don't know, tomato mozzarella, something. I'm like, yes. So I go there, I run into my first manager ever. She's literally stocking the shelves, and she's like, hey, how are you? Because she, I'm like, looking around. She's like, hey, how's it going? I'm like, oh, and uh, she's she, I'm like, I'm, I'm like, I should know where this is. She's like, yeah, you should. I'm like, yeah, but it's been 17 years ago, you know. And then I'm driving home like, mother of pearl, I'm getting old. And I was thinking, I feel like I'm like, man, I should be farther along, too.
I think that's the um struggle of being an extremely driven entrepreneur like yourself. Like, we, we always feel like we should be farther ahead and doing more, you know? Like, I'm, I'm guessing other agents and advisors struggle with that, too.
I would, I would guess. Yeah. I mean, I, I, I would say it never ends, you know. You always want more, and you always want better, and obviously the the world landscape is changing, so you're always adapting and trying to perfect, you know, skill sets and processes and stuff like that. So, yeah, so I mean, it never ends, you know. But always, always good to uh speak to, you know, uh self-driven, you know, guys like you. I, I've been watching you, Cody. Um, you know, I look up to you and a lot of different, you know, methods uh that you implement, um, and I've learned a lot from you uh so I'm very blessed.
Thank Cody.
Thanks, buddy. I appreciate you, man. I'm grateful, grateful for the relationship. Um, I also, too, um have noticed that you have really, you, you mean, you, you really lean into the um IUL annuity, more of the retirement advisor type of side of our business. Was it always like that, like when you first started? What did you focus on?
Yeah, no, I, I, I was very blessed to be brought in, you know, by a guy named Josh Melberg into this industry. Um, I knew the guy personally before I knew him professionally. Uh, he's actually my brother's, my only brother's best friend. Um, they were roommates for probably a decade or so, um, throughout college and throughout, you know, their early adulting years, you know. And uh, you know, so I, I would, I would, I knew of him, and I saw his growth personally and financially um as he built his, you know, from being an independent producer to becoming an agency to becoming a a lead generation program to becoming basically one of the biggest captive, you know, annuity IMOs in the nation. Uh, I, I came into this industry not necessarily through the life side; it was specifically through the annuity side, you know. So I've always been on the planning, you know, um uh side versus the, you know, individual, you know, one appointments, you know, uh uh sale type close, which I respect a lot. I just have always learned, you know, it takes a little bit of time to uh close a big money.
It does, man. And, and, and for those that are maybe new to the business, like um that are kind of scared of that, or they just need to grab some cash, I mean, I guess that's why they start in different parts of the business. Do you see most people kind of level up? Do you see them stick with what they're doing? Do you see them want to keep growing and venturing off? Like, what do you notice?
Well, you know, just like on the annuity side, I, I think it's very difficult to come in cold turkey and start from the ground zero, U because first, first of all, it's one of the longest sales cycles, you know. Um, what's the average sales cycle as an example? I mean, I'm going to say at le at least 60 to 90 days. There's no way. I mean, from writing it to getting paid, kind of a thing, or yeah, kind of like from, from the day that you first meet with a prospect, yeah, you know, to the day that they say yes, to the day that they actually, and then transferring the funds is a whole another animal. So you got the, you got basically 30 to 45 days in between where you're basically trying to get the other bank to transfer the funds correctly. Um, so it's anywhere from six, from, from start, from the first meeting all the way to the, you know, you get paid, 60 to 90 days, you know. So most professionals, especially in sales, uh can't survive, you know, like, you, you're in sales, in sales, you know that our strength is we believe in ourselves, and if we had zero dollars in the bank account, we could go out tomorrow and make 10, you know, 10, 10 $10,000 if we needed to, correct. And unfortunately, that, that builds a bad habit of, you know, spending the money before we make it, you know. So this, a longer sales cycle, but yeah, uh, you have to be brought in, uh, you know, I see a lot of graduates, you know, I have a lot, you know, colleagues, power producers that started on the life side and eventually started inserting, you know, the full annuity planning into their own prospects, um, or you got to be brought in by an already existing agency, just like I did, um, that's already, you know, hitting the ground running, you know. Yeah, and you're tagging along.
So what, what's the average amount of money you make for those that maybe are new to this space and they're learning and they're kind of using this as a way to like launch and learn? What, what do you see as like an average um commission?
So I mean, if, if we're talking percentages, uh, I'm gonna say right now six and a half to 7% is going to be, you know, as an independent producer, I, I, I don't, I don't frown upon captive shops, you know, I ran a captive shop for Josh, you know, for years, uh, if, as long as there's an exchange of value, you know, our exchange of value was we were providing the lead so that the agent just did what they did best, which is, you know, uh present and close. Um, so, you know, at that point, it's a split between that commission, you know, and the agency that's providing all the upfront work. Um, but, you know, I like to say we built a better program in today's world. Um, so but yeah, uh, six to 7%, um, the, you know, a decent producer independent can probably do anywhere from two to four, two to five million without any sort of real, real credibility marketing, you know, just independently, you know, purchasing marketing and, you know, doing what they do best, which is call on leads and, you know, have great conversations and close business. Um, so the average producer that I see that's full-time in annuities is probably making anywhere from 150 to 300,000, you know, in income a year, um, by doing, by doing it correctly, you know.
Yeah, great industry, you know, and it's well-working. So true. Um, you also mentioned, you mentioned credibility marketing. What did you mean by that?
Well, I mean, there's what I, you know, and I'll talk about, you know, the Rodrigo beliefs, right. Um, so I believe there's two types of marketing: one to, you know, prospect and generate leads, and one to build your name and your credibility, you know.
Agreed. So, so you got, you know, one can take you so far, but then you got to add the credibility, which means like, for instance, uh radio marketing, commercial marketing, you know, the, the higher, the higher cost, you know, name brand type marketing, uh press releases, you know, um, yep, getting featured, you know, getting interviewed, you know, just like this. I mean, I, I, I 100% this is credibility marketing. This is not, this is not prospect lead generation marketing. This is credibility marketing for me, you know. This is why I'm super excited to, to be on this right now.
You're excited you're here, too.
Yeah, this is a good example of that. You're 100% right. And I like that because I feel like our industry is very school, and we don't, um, or, or we're very shortsighted, and like, hey, dude, I got to get paid today or tomorrow or the next day. Like, I can't, I can't think long. I can't think of waiting 60 to 90 days to get paid, or, or this whole credibility marketing thing, build my brand.
Um, you also mentioned in today's earlier when you answering one of your questions, I forget some of it, but you mentioned something about uh how you're helping advisors in today's market. Yes, explain what you mean about like today and modern versus previous.
Well, um, the, the landscape has changed, especially after COVID, right? When we went virtual, you saw that, you know, in industries, uh, telesales went through the roof, right? U the amount of competition that's out there. Um, so you got to be aggress, you got to be number one, you got to be aggressive, you got to have, you know, you got to hit the prospect from every single type of value-filled proposition, you know, a direction. Um, so, you know, a lot of, you know, I'll give you an example: a lot of uh agents still haven't caught up with the virtual, uh, you know, landscape, you know. So they don't have a, they don't have a web page; they don't have social media that talks about what they do for a living. I mean, your, your resume in today's world when you're talking to a prospect is your social media. They're going to look you up no matter what, and if they can't find you, you're a ghost.
Yeah. That last thing they want to do is give a million dollars to a ghost, right?
True. And so, you know, that's, that's where I, I try to update them and say, hey, you got, you gotta, you got to level up, right? With, with the digital, you know, uh brick and mortar.
How often do you think, um, I like that digital brick and mortar. That's good. Um, definitely more modern, newer, like, it's, it seems, but, but that's how business people are doing business. I mean, people are transferring millions and millions and millions of dollars um virtually, digitally without actually ever, they'll meet them like this, but, but they'll never physically meet them. And I just think that's changed so much about compared to how it used to be.
It's beautiful, you know. It's beautiful. Uh, you know, I, I, we ran, we, we converted full virtual, you know, um, I just got back from Las Vegas um for a personal trip, but I had a client actually out there that I've been working on for a couple months that actually met me physically at the ARA. And so this was the first time after five meetings that I had met the gentleman physically, and it was a great meeting, and you know, we're going to do business together. But long story short, like, that, that was just because I was out there, and he lived out there, and it just made sense for us to meet, you know, uh physically.
Yeah, know, and knowing your, knowing your clients, it probably wasn't small, so it's like, you know what, you know, you know what's, what's beautiful is that uh it's a numbers game, so if you treat everybody exactly the same, you do the exact same process, the numbers will work out. So, you know, this, this client was healthy; other clients that are not as healthy, I still help them out, and they'll, they'll refer me healthier clients eventually, so it all works out.
Yeah. Also, you, you train a lot of um agents that want to transition into more retirement um and annuity planning that maybe are very new to the space; they don't understand. I feel like you do that a very, very, very good job of that. Um, walk me through like what are some of the key things that you teach and train? What are some of the key things that someone needs to like, you know, understand? Is it as overwhelming and confusing and complex as a lot of companies make it?
No, not necessarily, you know. One thing I've learned that made me successful with Josh, period, you know, because Josh was, you know, $40 million on his own rights, you know, his own pen producer. Uh, when he spoke, he spoke at a 30,000-foot level where half the distribution didn't understand what he was saying. So I had to dump, like, I learned that it's not just by, it's just dumbing it down to, to the basics, to simplify it for, you know, agents. Yeah, but it's also helping them dumb it down so that they can explain it to their clients. Okay. And so what I learned was one of the key elements is I have to humanize the products, okay? I gotta make it easy for them to explain, uh, not only for them to understand, but them to translate, you know, the, the power. I also learned, Cody, that like, for instance, everybody has objections about IULs; they're very common. Everybody has objections about, you know, Medicare; they're very common. Everybody has objections about annuities; they're very common. I, I teach them how to handle the hardest objections first, because then everything becomes easy, you know. Like, for instance, on the annuity side, the surrender period or the contract period is one of the biggest objections, so I teach them how to handle that first. If they can dominate that one, everything else just becomes so beautiful, their explanation that is just a benefit. So I've seen a lot of guys scale because if you learn how to explain the hardest objections first and get those out of the way, then it's just talking about the benefits and the pros of the annuity. So that's, that's good.
Yeah, that's freaking brilliant, bro. Like, I love that. I never, I never thought of it in your space. So many people are training like, here's like, like the, the most minor things, yeah, like superficial benefits, and here's how you explain it, and then they get hit with the most common objections, and they're like deer in headlights because they're like, oh, let me get back to you on that one, and then they lose the whole thing totally. So, I, I learned, well, how do you explain indexes with participation rates, you know? Because a lot of clients are like, how can they credit me 125% and then make money, too? Well, you know, I do a great explanation on that one, you know, for humans, and then the surrender contract, right? I do a great explanation on that one, and then it just empowers the agent to feel so confident about the product because nothing else is harder than that. And that's really what it comes down to is to be a great manager; you teach them the hardest part first, and they, everything else becomes easy.
Yeah, that's good. Um, what, what's possible in, in this arena? Like, someone say they're selling life or Medicare or health or PNC, whatever, you know, talking to people every day that could be helped by an annuity, um, what's possible? I'm not even saying they fully transition, but they just start like looking out for what's already there.
Sure, absolutely. 100%, like, uh, well, first of all, you gotta, they gotta upgrade, they got to level up their fact-finding, you know. I mean, I can't tell you enough like, most, most agents that are in the, and I love telesales, those guys are beasts. Like, if I could, if I could take a handful of telesales agents and teach them what I know about selling annuities, I'd prefer that than trying to teach a, a, a already burnt-out handful of annuity agents how I sell annuities, right? It's because they, in this world, you got to be more aggressive, right? So, uh, my biggest thing is they have the, it all starts with doing a better job on fact-finding, you know. Um, once you start doing a better job on fact-finding, which means you have to learn how to speak, you know, human, okay? Uh, because a lot of people will say, well, why are you asking me those questions, right? You have to, you have to learn to explain it in a way where it's conversational, and, and they're, and they're basically open to giving you everything, right? Yeah. And so I've done a great job of learning, you know, like, for instance, if I ask someone, you know, I'll give you an example: you got to learn how to reverse engineer what they say, too. Like, if I, if I say, well, what do you receive in dividends and interest on an annual basis, and they say 30 grand, well, normally I'll say, so you have about a million dollars in a brokerage account. They'll be like, huh? About 850 to 900,000. Boom, there you go. Now you, now you, now you have a million-dollar client right there.
That's good. Right? Because dividends and interest normally pay anywhere from three to 5 percent, okay, on the non-qualified brokerage, which means if, as long as I know the dividends and interest, they'll tell me what the total amount is in their accounts. Okay. So you got to learn little tactics to start getting everything from them in, in, in the right way. I do, I don't do anything special; there's nothing magical, you know. It's just asking the, it's not what you say; it's how you ask it, right? Yeah. And so it's called, uh, I like to call it, you know, common sense sales; it's just common sense, you know. Let's just get going, you know. But they got to transition into this; they have to do a better job of fact-finding. You, yes, you can't propose anything unless you know what they're working with, right?
Smart. I like, I like that there's not a lot of pixie dust, you know. Like, it's not, you know, it's not rocket science. Like, that's, if, if, uh, if, like, if someone just learned this skill, how much additional revenue could they add to their bottom line every year?
Oh, man, you know, I, you know, Glenn, one of my power producers, he's a clear example, um, you know, and I'll just take 30 seconds to tell you his story. He came to me, um, I, I, I had, had the pleasure of recruiting a team um that had layers on top of layers. I don't even understand the layers. If it doesn't make sense, why are you layering agents under you? You, I mean, yeah, like, so he was, he was like the, you know, fourth man down, you know. Everybody else got a, you know, something happened where everybody else saw some shiny stuff somewhere else and decided to move, and he's, and he was on every weekly, you know, meeting. He called me directly; he's like, you know, want to stay with you, what is that, you know? And I normally don't train from the ground up, you know. And what's crazy is I look at different things, and I ask the gentleman, you know, like, what's your sales background? He's like, I'm, you know, I'm a real estate agent with Keller Williams, right? And so I used to be a real estate agent with Keller Williams, and there's this bold competition that they have annually where they basically incentivize you if you meet the metrics, um, you know, I won't go into the BS, but it's only a percentage of a percentage because you have to sell a house each week; it's a nine-week program. So most agents won't sell nine houses in, in, in a nine-week program. You, I mean, um, and so I, I, I had the privilege of doing it once, you know, in my two years of being a Keller Williams. And so I had, I had, I had one of the trophies, and I just so happen to have it on my desk, and I'm like, you got one of these? And he pulled out two. He's like, I'll be right back. He pulled out. I'm like, really? You got two of those? And uh, so long story short, because he had two of them, I said, I'll take you under my wing because, how aggressive this guy was, because I, I, I, I asked him what, how many did you sell? He said 11 the first year, 27 the second year in nine weeks. 27, dude. I was like, let's go. I mean, pardon my French.
No, you're okay. That's crazy. So I brought him in; I started feeding him pension planning appointments. Okay? He started cracking the code. Long story short, in 2023, he did three and a half million in annuities on the side from the I-Target Premium that he collected from these leads. Why? Because he dug, and he full fact-finding, and he found the spouse's assets; he found the old 401Ks; he found every, like, three and a half million in your first year, full, full-time production is amazing.
That's awesome. Okay, so that's possible right there, you know. I mean, that was an extra $250,000 in commissions that he made on top of the I premium that, you know, he collected. So that, that, that will answer first year, you know, from real estate coming full time. Boom, let's go. So he, he made more money doing this than selling real estate; it's what it sounds like to me. I mean, it, I don't know about 27 houses in nine months, but yes, I mean, I think, I think, I think uh, in the long term, uh, here's another thing is like the, the size of these cases, you know. I mean, I don't want to, I don't want to talk strictly because of commission, but it's a beautiful industry, okay? Uh, it takes care of a, takes care of a lot of sin when one case can basically make your year.
True. You know. And so that's all, that's all I'll say about that, but yeah, legit happens, too. Um, well, Rodrigo, you're an incredible buddy; you're an amazing trainer; obviously, you love what you do. If they want to reach out and help make annuities great again, what do they do or where do they go?
Sure. So first step, okay, and this is what I highly recommend, um, just to, you know, start communicating and seeing what type of value we offer is join our free community on Facebook: Premier Annuity Council. Premier Annuity Council. Premier Annuity Council is the Facebook group, okay? Just literally look up on Facebook groups, Premier Annuity Council. You're going to see this hat, by the way, that's the picture, okay? So in case you don't, you're confused and all these groups that pop up, this is the hat that's on the actual, you know, Facebook profile picture. Um, you're going to join; if you're a licensed agent, um, you're going to learn a lot of free content. We have strategic partners that not only have to do with marketing but also with, you know, uh credibility marketing, uh designations.
Yes, sir. Right there. Look at that beautiful hat.
Got it. Got it. Let's go. That's the first step. Once you get, once you become part of there, then you can start asking questions; you can direct message me; uh, you can, you know, find out what, how, how we're doing, you know. We built a, a what I like to call an ecosystem for annuity producers, which is not only do we
Have top training okay, available. We have marketing available. We got product, you know, uh, uh, selection available. I mean, we're we're we're under we're under some of the biggest NMOS in the nation that give us access to proprietary products that they have access to. Um, and we teach strategy, um, which is huge. We we teach advanced case design, so you know that that's huge. You know, learning how to divorce IRS for free, learning how to uh, uh, get long-term care for free. You know, we have all these strategies that we've used annuities to provide our consumers which are not just the basic, you know, preservation of capital, reduce risk. We're talking about advanced level strategies that will help optimize the value of their dollar.
It's cool, dude. I love what you're doing.
Thanks for being a part of Power Players and thanks for being on the podcast.
Absolutely, Cody. Thank you for having me. Appreciate you, buddy. Ladies and gentlemen, Rodrigo Gil. Thanks for listening to Power Players. Also, uh, if you have never tried Kaboom, you can go to Kaboomle.com. You can use coupon code YouTube to get 10% off your very first order at Kaboomleads.com. Thanks for listening to Power Players and we'll see you on the next podcast. Adios. Hey, if you enjoyed this, I got another one you're going to love. It's right there, click on it. See you there.
I'm so excited for today's CA Power Player podcast. I'm your host, Cody Askins. We got a special guest; he is back on the channel talking about how to sell life insurance from home. Here's what here's what I love about this person; I'm telling you this will be one of the best