Transcription
So today we're going to go a little off of our normal script and we're going to do a reaction. Uh this video is about Kendra Hilty. She's becoming very popular online for her videos and commentary about her psychiatrist.
Uh a little bit about her, she is ADHD, so neurodiverse, we can relate, but she is diagnosed uh and getting treated for it. So we do know that. Uh but she is a self-proclaimed ADHD empowerment coach. >> Uh so uh she >> university advocacy is cool. We like that. >> Yeah. But what the name like coaching >> she charges quite a bit of money for her coaching and one of her patients like came out about it. It's it's it can be a little strange, >> but that's my prejudice. I'll try to be open. That's our reaction, right? Like >> what we're going to re be watching and you two are reacting to is her videos about her psychiatrist who she believes fell in love with her. >> Okay. Oh, >> now she does say, and you'll see early in the early videos, she does say that she also had feelings for him, but a majority of her videos are about him using his power to manipulate her into her wanting to be with him. >> Like a magic potion incantation. Yeah. Straight out the psychiatric run. Awesome. Yeah, this is going to be wild. The first videos we're going to watch are we're going to watch the first four videos she posted. They're rather short. They're only a few minutes long, but I wanted you guys to get kind of a baseline for her. >> You have to get used to this person before starting go like before going through the absert. >> Yes. Because in the first few videos, >> maybe she's right. You don't know that yet. >> Yeah, we don't. This is a reaction. You guys are professionals going to see how this unfolds. >> Kendra. >> Kendra is your name. The first few videos I would say she has a very different personality than she does in the later videos and you might catch on to that. >> Why are you basically lying? >> Let's go. Okay.
>> I'm Dr. Tom psychiatrist specialist. Today we will be reacting to content instead of our typical informative style podcast. We want to be clear that this is reaction content and not us diagnosing or treating anyone. To get real help, we strongly recommend seeking out a health care professional that could take their time, learn your history, and provide a real diagnosis and treatment plan. That said, let's get back to the video. I fell in love with my psychiatrist and he knew and he kept me until I had the strength to leave after 4 years. That's nice. >> He helped took it over. >> But then in my late 20s, I read this book, Taking Charge of Adult ADHD, and it absolutely changed my life for my fellow ADHDers. There's so many good things in here. And the biggest thing that I took away was that it's very important for ADHDers to be on meds. So I decided to make an appointment with a psychiatrist. I booked a 90-minute intake and I show up to the intake and this man is my age and I can't help but notice that he's pretty attractive. This psychiatrist. >> Okay. The fact that she has a book already makes her a very good coach. >> If we didn't have the backstory >> and just watching this video, I would be a little like h okay, you can just look at a person and know that they're pretty, but that's not necessarily >> Okay, so my hot my hot take if as she states her psychiatrist knew that she was in love with him and she needed she still needed him to get over this and find someone new. I don't I don't feel like if that's true that the psychiatrist is wrong to help her connect with someone else. We actually do that frequently.
>> So in this intake, you know, I kind of clocked that he was attractive and my age, but when I tell you that I've had a lot of couch time in my life, a lot of therapy, you know, I just went right into it. I trusted him enough, of course, why wouldn't I, to tell him about my childhood trauma, my daddy issues, if you will. Um, but I had went through all of the relationship trauma that I had. I was 6 months sober at this time, but like all of the drinking and substance use I used to do. And um, he just listened and nodded. And that's the thing about psychiatrists is that they're good at pretending to listen. >> That's actually true that sometimes anyone who's listening to you might not be listening to you, but the way that she says like, "Oh, they're really good at pretending like they're listening, like they pretending that they care." Sound like, "Oh, he was misleading me somehow. You know, I don't know. >> I can guarantee you that every time I pretend I listen to you, I do listen to you and I feel you. So, I I really had her she really got me at the the initial phase like telling me telling about her vulnerabilities and fragile opening up, but then she instantly did a 180 telling me that psychiatrists are just pretending. >> Yeah. Like we are trained to actually listen and to listen to more that you're saying. Like we are paying attention to everything like the way you talk, the way you move, how you react to the things you do. And then she said that oh we are really good at pretending. Sounds like she's hurt, you know. Okay. So I just felt really seen and I also told him I was like look I don't want to be on stimulant meds. So, he listened to me and he put me on the non-stimulant ADHD med at the lowest dose just to figure out if it was going to work for me. >> Oh, he was listening to me pretending and then made me feel seen like Yeah, that's his job to listen to you and see you. Why you >> He made you feel seen because he saw you. >> Yes.
>> So, I didn't understand how psychiatry works. So, because he was figuring out my med dose, I saw him every month. And he just made me feel like I was his friend. He was really, really funny and cracked jokes and um told me he was impressed with my running that I would do and Yeah. So, of course, I loved the attention that I got from him. >> Sounds like he was a good psychiatrist. >> Exactly. 100% he was doing the right thing. >> Yeah. He was generally bonding with her and seems like she was very needy. >> I said, "Hey, do you mind if I call you by your first name?" And he's Pakistani, so I said his first name wrong. And he said, "Well, it's pronounced this, but yes, of course you can." And he seemed so smug and happy with himself. And I know that that is because that was his first sign that him pretending like we're friends was working. And to be fair to me, I had only ever been to therapy before. I didn't realize that, you know, it's important to call your doctor. Do doctor last name. >> I hate that. Uh we know live in Brazil, right? So we know that in Brazil nobody calls anybody by by his last name. I'd rather not use my last name at all. Just call me Tom, please. that and um I'm from a culture in Austria where titles are really important. So if you are a doctor um you're going to make the person say your whole title and then your name is kind of be considered like a or past in the monarchy you know >> like people have all these fake titles even and you got to include them if not like you're actually obliged to change all your paper work all your credit cards and passports in Austria once you do conclude university what >> if you don't you're actually committing I a an infraction. So in pain, >> so I really do enjoy the first name basis and um she doesn't know anything about this doctor and she probably has some trans transcultural stuff going on as well if he's Pakistani. So >> the way she says like oh he was very happy with himself because he pretending was working and I was like no he was happy to connect generally with you you know maybe if he was a good psychiatrist. >> One part that I'm kind of agree with her is maybe like maybe for the patient calling a doctor a doctor sometimes is relevant. I'm not sure. So to to my mom or our pastor in church, she really wanted to be very formal with him >> and she felt like he shouldn't be as informal he was trying to be. This was important to my mom but not to the pastor, you know. So I feel like maybe it's important to her, but she's clearly stating that she'd rather use the first name. So >> it just showed that the boundaries were blurring and he liked that. that >> that >> it's like okay so we're on a firstn name basis now you get to write the get out of >> now you're my friend >> next time next time you're in a bar and drinking margarita and then okay >> yeah but again like I don't know how things enroll in the US in Brazil that would be you know we call everybody by their first name and if if I have a client that says oh Dr. Caroline, I'm like, "No, you can just call me Carol." Like, it's fine. If you say like Dr. Caroline sounds like I'm someone that I'm not, you know, and if I want to bond with you, generally I think it's easier if you are like horizontally connected with that person, sometimes titles put you on a pedestal and that's not helpful for the therapeutical process for most cases.
>> So just calling you saying that that blurring the lines really is ludicrous. I really cannot stand that at all. Uh there's no reason to believe that, but it's probably part of the narrative she's created. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And I feel kind of bad for her, you know, because if calling someone by their first name, like someone who is paid to take care of her by their first name is something that would justify them being friends. That just shows how lonely she was. He just started turning up the volume on us being friendly. And he would ask me for the first six sessions, he asked me after the meds, he said, "How's your bowels, bladder, and appetite?" And I would say, "They're all normal." And then he would ask me, "Any thoughts of harm?" And I apparently that's pretty common for psychiatry to ask those questions. It's obligatory. You cannot >> have a patient walk out of your office without knowing whether or not they're going to harm themselves. >> Yeah. Psychologist, too. >> And then on our sixth session when things were really, you know, the chemistry was starting to be there before, like I didn't realize it. I was like, "Oh, this man is just friendly." Um, and he said, he said, "I have to ask this because it's a special interest of mine, but is there any thoughts of harm?" like I was special to him. >> Girl, come on. Like I don't know. Like she wants to feel special. She wants to be special to him. Oh, your poor thing. >> She contradicts herself. She she says that starting from the third session he keeps asking her about the harm and then in the sixth session somehow it turns into his special interest and then she feels special because it's his special interest. So that's BS again. >> Yeah. And again like we have to secure our phys the physical integrity of our clients because if you're not alive we cannot take care of you. Okay. And I said, "No, no thoughts of harm." And he didn't ever ask me a clinical question again. He stopped asking me about my bladder, bowels, and appetite. And he stopped asking me about thoughts of harm. >> Maybe because you adapted to the meds and it was okay for a while and then we don't have to keep asking the same questions forever. It's interesting because she does attribute meaning to that, but she never asked about why he stopped asking it. She's probably been stable on the meds for some time and you didn't need to ask her anymore. >> Mhm. >> At least not as frequently. >> Yeah. I'm really curious about >> human mind is awesome. >> Huh? >> The human mind is awesome. >> I have a client that says that it's fantastic how the human mind can create things endlessly. She keeps re recontextualizing, reframing her impressions according to the narrative she's gonna >> Yeah.
>> So, at this point, I thought the first three episodes was going to be enough for key foundation for you guys. Then I watched episode four and I was like, "Okay, I'm going to skip four until something important happens." Four is is also crazy. So, I was like, "No, I have to keep it in four because there's so much foundation in four to this whole story." So, here we go. And after four, then I'll give you a summary and we'll skip to some episodes. >> So, I was seeing him every month and just gaining more and more respect for him because he would just tell me these little things about his successes. And this is a really good example of a parasocial relationship. Like you know when we talk about parasocial relationship we usually consider how we somewhat have a relationship with the influencers we see online and they don't really understand us. They don't really know us. >> Mhm. >> Pretty sure that she is attributing so much meaning to this person's this MD's work. It's incredible. >> And he was really good at listening. And I mean he's a Pisces, right? So of course he's going to be there and and be able to go deep with my feelings. But that doesn't mean that he wasn't extracting from them. >> Extracting like he was mining >> for his narcissist. >> Like he was just dragging from her inside. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Girl, >> she already is setting herself up to call him a narcissist. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> My therapist at the time, he was fine. you know, he wasn't a predator, but he was fine. He just wasn't. >> She's implying that he's she's already implied that he's a predator. Like, my therapist is fine, but he's no hot psychiatrist who, by the way, is a predator. >> Doing very much for me. And so, he wasn't doing very much for me. Sorry, >> girl. girl, we know what you want. [Laughter] I'm so sorry. Let's continue. >> That therapist retired and I got a new therapist. And this new therapist, who is a 75-year-old woman with a PhD, she was pretty helpful. So, I stopped asking my psychiatrist, begging honestly, to be my therapist and let me see him more, right? which also should have been a red flag, but then I started focusing on this therapist. However, I would >> but he's setting a boundary and setting boundaries is a red flag. Now, >> I guess the red flag should that she's talking about is that he should have picked up on her falling in love with uh because of the begging. But we don't really have any objective measure of how she begged him. We only know that he rejected. >> Yeah. Yeah. And also like if you have a good bond with a client and this client wants to see you more and you feel like you need to set this boundary. Maybe he was picking up them. She was a little intense about their process but not necessarily in love. It takes a takes a while for you to notice, hey, you you notice really quickly that something is not appropriate, but not necessarily that this is someone falling in love with you, you know, but maybe he was picking up on something and drew this boundary right there, you know, at the beginning. >> I guess I have a red flag for the narrative she's building. Like he was mining uh self-esteem and for his narcissistic soul off her, but he refuses to see her >> more often. So >> yeah, it's like on the abusive relationships that you have love bombing and then you have aggression. Sounds like she felt she felt this boundary like the beginning of an aggression. >> So in the in the story he just needed to hook her and then he >> got all her self-esteem her need to see him more. I feel sorry. >> I feel really sorry for her. >> But as a disclaimer, I'm not in love with her. [Laughter] But I still would like to take care of her. Of course, >> made very clear how obsessed I was with my psych psychiatrist and she didn't do anything about it. >> Didn't she just say that she was amazing, that she did fine because because she was a 75-year-old woman with a PhD >> and she was helping her >> and no, she doesn't help her at all. She also loved stories about my dating life. And yeah, she she al >> Okay, so she feels like her therapist was into the gossip stuff, but actually I feel like if her therapist caught on the fact that there was some kind of asymmetrical, non-healthy relationship with the psychiatrist, the fact that she was pushing her more towards regular dating life was actually very helpful. very healthy >> getting supply from me in her own way. But that's for another part. So yes, so I got a new therap >> because no one's good enough for you, right? >> She taught me CBT, EFT, all of these different modalities. And so I went back to just being okay with seeing once a month. He was giving me these little breadcrumbs of making me feel special, telling me about his professional achieve. >> Pebbling. It's she's talking about pebbling. I feel like she just got unlucky because that turned into a trendy term recently and she felt okay this is like the new version of love bombing. He gives me breadcrumbs >> and it worked. I was really impressed. >> It's important for you to trust the person that is taking care of you. So makes sense that he would tell her, "Hey, I'm doing like this is my new book." You know, sometimes people do that. But I don't know, the way that she describes it sounds like he's like a a peacock, you know, like showing himself up like, "Hey, look how I'm amazing." And she was, "Yes, yes, you're amazing." Like like an ego boost for this guy. But I don't know, like we've we saw her for five minutes now and we already feel sorry for her. Imagine him like >> and I still don't know if Matt's worked. >> Yeah. After that, she talks about how some appointments he had would be warm and kind and others would feel more clinical. And you remember she said in like the second or third episode that uh he stopped asking her questions, clinical questions, but then she goes on and says, "No, but they felt more clinical." So, I I'm a little bit confused there. But she did go on to say that him being cold and being more clinical made her want to work harder and that he purposely did that. >> It's not that >> he manipulated her into >> into right. >> Yes. >> Isn't that the job? Like not of course not manipulating, but aren't you paying him to help you? And then when he does it's like oh no, I'm a victim. It's happening. >> Yes. >> It's interesting because she applies so many social constructs, you know, like the pebbling, the narcissist, the hot and your cold, all of those. And she applies them perfectly to her life. And she didn't use the one that probably described it better as the parasocial relationship she had. >> Mhm. >> Caught on to that early on, probably would have changed a lot. >> Yeah. So, she goes on to say that uh this is when she started to feel addicted to him, that it was intentional because he knows how to work with trauma and attachment theory. She specifically says those two things. Uh she then goes on to talk about being in a car accident. >> Do we know if she hit her head? >> Oh, I don't know that. I don't know specifically to see if she had some cranial trauma. >> And what she does say about the car accident though is that it was in the morning. She got into a car accident and then she went to uh what we have in the US is called like urgent care. Urgent care is like a small clinic, not a hospital. So she went to this urgent care and said, "I was in a car accident. I need like checked out." The nurse there said something along the lines of, "You need more than what we can do here. You need to go to a hospital to get certain scans done." She then says, "Oh, but I had an appointment with my psychiatrist in 2 hours, so I didn't go to the hospital because I didn't want to miss my appointment with him." >> I see that this can happen. When I fell off my back, I was going to the to the laboratory at the university and I was like I called my boyfriend who was in Brazil and I was like, "Oh, but I have to go I have to go to to the university. They are waiting for me." And he was like, "No, you're going home." And I remember just walking around the neighborhood not knowing where I was and it was somewhere in Dublin that I do know as the palm of my hand. So it's just maybe it was a trauma reaction, you know. >> Okay. So this is there's a two-part, right? Carol is talking about the initial adrenaline stuff that goes on, but I really feel like given that all we're seeing is after the accident, I feel like there's probably some if there was an accident, there's probably some structural changes in her brain. I know I feel really sad. >> Okay. >> So, there's a famousa case of finess cage. >> Ah, fin cage is in the >> the pole through the front. Yeah, exactly. the railway worker that got a >> I actually heard it again. >> Yeah. >> And um and he changed his like everyone that loses or loses some structure of the frontal lobe the personality. >> So now I feel like this person should get a CAT scan >> like we don't know. >> So we can't we can't speculate. I I just want to make sure that we're on the same page that if someone that has a structural change in their brain changes their personality, at least in terms of objective behaviors, that we don't get to believe that that's that person's real personality. That's the changed personality of that person. >> Do you have a CAT scan of Kendra? >> No. >> Okay. >> We don't have any more medical anything like that. >> Any any neuro imaging would work. >> Kendra, you have to put This is an interesting point that she makes in the video. She talks about him noticing that she wears different kinds of glasses, different styles of glasses. And in one of the appointments, he said, "Oh, I really like th that particular style." And so she comments that every video you've seen her in, she's wearing those glasses he commented on because she wants him to see it. >> Oh, honey, you're not helping yourself. >> I think that that was when I heard her say that, I was like, whoa. Like you are purposely wanting him to give you attention even after all of this. And then specific type of attention which is admiration, right? >> Yes. >> If he sees her in those videos clearly altered personality, the Finas Cage car accident blah, wouldn't you feel like he has legally obliged to talk to someone about her change in demeanor? >> Mhm. And wouldn't that also be again a care, an act of care that you might interpret as another act of love? >> I wonder like what type of history builds that type of interpretation like you only care for the people you love. Maybe I don't know maybe it's a cultural thing. Maybe it's something from her story with her family. But in some cultures in Brazil, you take care of people just because, you know, like you don't have to know them to take care of them. It sounds like she was very lonely and interpreted every type like every everything that someone did to care for her. She interpreted love and that's really a reperatory issue. You know, maybe she never learned that you can have doctors and friends and everybody's going to take care of you in a different way and like you and love you in different ways. It's not always romantic, you know, like I do love my clients a lot and they know that and I'm glad they know that, but it's not romantic. My therapist wasn't helping me. My psychiatrist wasn't helping me. He was feeding it. And then I got a boyfriend and at first my psychiatrist wasn't really that keen. But then my psychiatrist realized that my boyfriend was a lot like my psychiatrist. And then I started talking to my psychiatrist about my sex life, about tracking my cycle using the fertility awareness method. This is so important uh for female clients. It's always important to link what you see with the timing in their cycle if they have one because it increases or decreases the probability of certain patterns of behavior. So when we are PMSing we are more prone to be depressed. We are more prone to be um angry or you know more reactive whereas when we are ovulating we are just like success you know and I can do anything. I'm a like a boss you know, I'm that When you're ovulating, but but when you are PMSing or doing your period, you just feel like So maybe in her case, like PMSing, she would be or in during like her ministration, she would be more prone to be obsessed with him and feeling rejected. And you know, it's important to link those things. So you're saying that she should um make her appointments based on her cycle >> ideally if that was possible like because you see more clearly when you are in certain pe certain parts of your period like you're less biased towards what's bad but it might be good you know to go to the psychiatrist when you're feeling like you know because then you can tell your psychiatrist everything that's happening >> be really hard to to predict whether or not she is going to fall in love more with her psychiatrist when she is feeling like or when >> she feels like the boss. >> Yeah, exactly. I don't know. I just feel bad for her. Like, of course, I don't I don't mean to say that she should schedule her appointments with him based on her cycle, but it's important for us as people who take care of women to be aware of that. You know, >> we also have to take care to not fall into the sexist >> narrative of that's just your hormones, you know, >> a female president. She's just in way direct. >> That's a fine line. I always discussed that with Daniel. Daniel is my boyfriend. He's also a psychologist and he's much more careful when bringing up these issues than I am because I don't need to be because I'm a woman, you know. So, I'm like that's interesting, but let me tell like where are you in your cycle? So ah maybe you are feeling like that because you are PMSing. This is something this is normal in my clinic because we do go through that and I always encourage my clients to start things when they are ovulating because it's increases the probability of they actually doing it. >> The fact that she's using the cycle awareness method is really one of the least safe methods that you could use. So there's this thing called the pearl index and uh that measures the likelihood of you getting pregnant by the method used and even condoms are really not doing well on this pearl index and I couldn't even start to consider how bad of a choice that was. So she's saying that he didn't bring it up. I guess she's got a reasonable point if he really didn't bring it up. Like she he's a psychiatrist but still an MD. Oh >> yeah, but she she describes it as as if he was a pervert, you know. Oh, he loves listening to my love life and all the sex that I have, you know, >> also insinuating that um >> he's a president. >> The fact Yeah. But the fact that the boyfriend is very much like him is the pivot for her to say that no, he he likes the boyfriend or embraces the boyfriend. >> Yeah. And I would send my psychiatrist these emails just about how much I liked him and how I was so grateful for him and put in a bunch of heart emojis >> because the heart emoji is a definite sign that you're in love. Yeah, maybe they are like but I don't know like if you she's clearly unstable during that period would you forward her care to someone new if you don't absolutely trust without giving this new doctor all the details whereas if you are already taking care of a person they are well bounded to you it's easier for them to you know uh engage in treatment agree >> maybe it's easier to medicate her and make sure that she's okay before forwarding her to someone >> for whatever reason you know that you have to transition is still adequate to help >> the person the client through the transition. >> Yeah, I think it's ethical. It's ethical to do that. Drawing boundaries, you know, >> even though my boyfriend did not meet my needs, my psychiatrist and my therapist both were like, "You have to stay with him." >> But wasn't your boyfriend like your psychiatrist like 30 seconds ago? there's nothing wrong with him not meeting your needs. I'm like, okay. And my psychiatrist was like, he's perfect. Don't get wrong with him. And what was perfect about him was he wasn't meeting my needs. So, I was still coming to my psychiatrist looking for emotional validation, which he would drip to me slowly. >> Yes. She's got a great narrative about how she is like in this emotional desert and she depends entirely on her psychiatrist to give her water and small droplets. So, she keeps he keeps her hooked. It's very very interesting narrative. >> Yeah. But she also says that her therapist was helping her and her boyfriend was like her therapist, which I mean might be because he was also validating her and the therapist as well. But she seeking for a specific type of validation, I guess. And she wants to confirm her theory that she that she's maybe this victim, but also that he likes her. Maybe he's jealous. >> 100% certain that she's going to arch this back to the daddy issues that she brought up. She's going to say that psychiatrist found out what perfume my dad used. >> Oh, >> and he bought it. >> And he bought the same perfume for my boyfriend. >> And there's no way of knowing if she's lying. And I know that that doesn't matter as therapist, >> but we do know that she's kneede and >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Oh, girl. >> Now I feel mostly sad. >> Yeah. so sorry went through that but also like I applaud this therapist and the psychiatrist because this is the type of client that demands a lot of you and not just in case of an emergency but I mean like hey I'm so happy today because I pooped and they would be like hey doctor I pooped you know like this type of client so >> you know the catch 22 is like you really want to recommend to her girl you're out of your mind, you should get a psychiatrist. But then she goes like, "Tada, >> he's great. I love him and he loves me and we are going to get married >> and have many beautiful kids." >> Yeah. It It gives baby reindeer vibes, stalker vibes. >> She's going to sell her rights to Netflix. >> Yeah, I would. At least like you went through hell. At least you make some money out of it, right? >> We're not doubting that she is actually in hell or you went through hell. >> Yes. Yeah, >> I went to her because my boyfriend and I after like more than a year together, we started having issues in the bedroom. And so I went to my therapist and she asked me, "What does your psychiatrist think about this?" And I said, "I don't know. I haven't talked to my psychiatrist." >> We're starting the conspiracy theories because the therapist and the psychiatrist are secretly trying to get her hooked on the psychiatrist. That's awesome. It's really good uh screenplay writing. >> Yeah, you're spiraling. Oh my god. >> I have a crush on my psychiatrist and I don't want to tell him this intimate of stuff. And she said, "Well, you should tell him because I want a male's perspective." So, at my next What the That's weird. That's weird. I want a male's perspective. 2025. Like again, at this point, I'm just doubting everything that she said. Like, I don't know if her therapist would say that, you know? But anyways, if she did, she's an I told him, I said, "Today, we're going to talk about my intimate life." And he said, "Oh." I said, "Yes." My psych my psychologist, my therapist asked what your opinion on it was. And I told her that I don't talk to you about this intimate stuff because I have a crush on you. And he looked down and smiled so big in that moment. He smiled so big. And I loved it. It's so gross thinking about it. And then I proceeded to give him 30 minutes of nonstop content about my intimate life with my boyfriend. So she shares for the first time through psychiatrist that she has a crush on him through the retelling of the story that she had with her therapist here. Right. >> And then she implies that he didn't respond to that at all and that he just wanted her to give a detailed account on her sex life. >> Yeah. She says that he likes it. He likes that she has a crush on him. >> But he doesn't respond at all apparently. Yeah, >> like >> it just takes it in and doesn't say anything about it. >> Recorded the whole thing because I was so excited about it, but now it makes me sick. I can't even listen to the recording. I've tried um to start. >> I was waiting for the recording. I was waiting for the recording to happen. >> Why? What told you that? >> Because that's that's obvious like she she would need proof right now. Like she would want to start recording actually. >> Maybe she always recorded, right? like she was just waiting for the perfect moment. >> So, her mentioning the recording, she does mention that she recorded this session. She doesn't talk about other recordings. We don't we don't know if we just know that she recorded this one. She says that she cannot listen to it anymore cuz it makes her sick. Whether this is important or not, but for context of the story, that recording never becomes public or never there's no proof of the recording other than what she says right here. So, the recording could be real. She might not want to share it because of private details. Totally understandable. But this is the only thing we know about the recording is that she says she has it. That's it. >> Bit of a lowkey threat to the psychiatrist. >> When you get too obsessed with something, you start getting a little delirious. So, I don't know if he actually smiled or if he actually didn't say anything or what like what parts of this agreed with the reality that they were living. You know, maybe he said something and I I don't I don't mean to defend him. I'm just saying that as someone who is looking from the outside and seeing the way that she enjoys remembering that she told him all these naughty details, you know, like like she wanted him to want her. She wanted she wanted clearly she wanted him to to be excited about that, you know. I don't know. It's very complicated case. >> It's gross. Any ethical psychiatrist would have stopped me and said, "Kendra, let's talk about your meds. Let's talk about your care." At this point, my meds were stable. >> Not necessarily, right? >> Ethical psychiatrist would stop her and say, "Hey, let's talk about how this impacts our >> Yes. Yes. Yes. If you get into too much detail without any filter, this is obviously an issue. But in therapy, sometimes we have to go through the details to understand like what's not okay and what's okay. And you know, talking openly about your sex life isn't an issue in itself. It's the purpose of it that is the problem. And seems like she was doing this to seduce him. It was pretty much his Christmas morning. The almost two and a half years of grooming me to get me to talk about sexual things with him worked. >> He's a criminal mastermind and he planned this all two and a half years before it actually happened and then he went to the bar and had some champagne. It's very problematic everything like I don't the more I listen to it the more concerned I get like I really hope she's taking care of herself because >> Yep. That's also where what I feel. >> This has been part one of our reaction. There are more episodes to come and if you would like to be notified when those episodes are uploaded, please subscribe and follow us. [Music]