Synastry- Sun/Neptune aspects

So, looking at Sun-Neptune aspects, we are looking at the amount of, um, projection or idealism or diffusion. Any time we're looking at an aspect with Neptune, we're looking at what type of potential do we have there for idealism. That could be very, very good. It could be very, very helpful. We need a certain amount of sugar in a relationship, especially a romantic relationship, but we don't want sugar addiction. We don't want too much of that. We don't want it to become something that's toxic, where we're just contributing to negativities, because everything is a balance. I mean, we'd all like to live on Pop-Tarts, but Twinkies is not the recipe for a long life.

All right, so when we have the conjunction between the Sun and Neptune, we have to look at what kind of, oh, a nuke, can you, um, mute? Oh, I'm so sorry. Okay. Oh, that's my favorite kind of lavender. A nuke lavender. Oh, I started about 50 of them this year. Um, I see mute. Got it. Thanks.

So, with the conjunction between the Sun and Neptune, we have to look at everything that is in the natal personalities, particularly of the Neptune person. And we have to look at what's happening in this industry. And we would also look at the composite and the larger scope of what's going on between the two. Because if we have a relatively benign relationship going on, meaning that we're not acting on our worst impulses, or it's not a relationship that's defined by, uh, intensity, or, you know, there's, it's not something that's based on manipulation or selfishness. If it's a healthy, um, I know, normal relationship, then we're gonna have okay things going on with this particular conjunction. But we also have to look at the natal charts. And even if we do have some Neptunian proclivities happening in the natal chart, we would want to look at the composite chart to see what this conjunction is adding up to in the end. We may be experiencing some amount of, uh, back and forth when it comes to intrigue or mysteries or intensity or Neptunian fog in the day-to-day. But if the composite chart is showing that that isn't adding up to something that's more consequential, then we would, you know, look at this as something that's potentially workable.

So, if we have a natal chart that, or one or both, that does have some hard Neptunian themes, meaning that we're dealing with some amount of over-idealization or projection of inner fantasies, we're looking, we're drawn towards the sugar of life, and that's our, our definition of, you know, what love or life or happiness is. If we have some Plutonian stuff that is circulating within our charts and and within our psyches, um, that can put us in a position where securing a relationship is, you know, the most important thing. Our security, our own desires may be something that we can struggle with, because they can often lead the way and I can get in the way of a, a plain, honest connection in relationships. Because if we're looking for intensity, we're actually looking for drama and mistaking that as love. So, if that's something that's occurring in the natals, and then we see the conjunction occurring here, this is what can open the door to some very successful manipulation of the Sun person. And that can very much go back and forth between the two. Because Neptune is what we want to see. It's our most beautiful ideal. And when that comes in contact with someone else's Sun, which is really a lot of the look of them, their actions, their identity, who they personally are, it's their own, you know, brand of unique personal creativity. Um, when that's in an aspect to the Sun, our Neptune's an aspect of someone's Sun, our own kind of sugar, our own idealism, what it is that we'd like to see, that is what is being cast on the Sun. And in the easy aspects, those indicate that there's a likelihood of a harmony when it comes to those castings, those visions that come from the Neptune person and who the Sun person, you know, actually is. Uh, meaning the, the qualities of their Sun.

With the conjunction, it's very much mixed. The, um, you, that yearning for something perfect of the Neptune person and who the Sun person is there. The Sun person might actually have a lot of the qualities that the Neptune person is looking for. I mean, they're coming through the same style, coming through the same sign. Um, but we have to still look very closely at who we're actually with. So, um, there is a harmony that can come from the conjunction, but we have to be very careful to look for what is real, not for what we've always wanted to see, but for what is actually there. And it may be that it's quite beautiful with the conjunction. It may be that we really come to see that we've got a good thing here going on. It doesn't apply, um, disappointment like the difficult aspects do. So, the conjunction is interesting. We want to look at it in terms of everything that's going on within the relationship. We want to look at the composite, and we also want to look at the natals.

Because the Sun person, in all the difficult aspects to Neptune and the conjunction, the Sun person loves that feeling of being idealized, of, you know, being seen as, you know, something that someone's always wanted to see. It feels really good to be someone's fantasy. And so we can unconsciously morph our identity or adopt some of those projections or those, um, those visions that the Neptune person has. And and we can, you know, become that. And, um, it is something that is so subtle. I mean, we're not sitting around writing the plan, you know, that I'm going to be everything that the other person wants to see. It's just something that we want to hold up. We do not want to disappoint the other person. You have to have a lot of Uranus in you, and usually hard aspects to Uranus. Maybe 11 planets. You have the kind of room. Jennifer, can you mute? Oh, sorry. That's okay. You're quiet as a mouse up until now. Um, so it takes a lot of, uh, willingness to not be liked, or be comfortable with not, with, you know, being seen just as we are. Willingness to disappoint someone, to to admit that, you know, it's just us.

Because the Neptune person will say things to us with any of the aspects from Neptune to the Sun, especially the hard aspects or or the the conjunction. They'll say things to us like, you know, you're the most, uh, you know, you're the best architect, you know, that's ever been. It's, it's just, you know, I've never seen anyone that is, you know, as good as your can do what you can do. And, um, we have to remind them that, and, you know, it's, it's just me. And there are actually other people that are actually really good at this stuff. And, um, it's, you know, you know, I'm okay. I make mistakes. I make mistakes. So we have to try to bring their vision down to what is actually, um, indeed an indication of who we really are. And remind them that, um, you know, we appreciate the way that they see us. We really do. That's that's something that's very flattering. But, um, you know, remind them, or even educate them for the first time, about who we really are. And, um, we can't be accused of running with the projection if we are trying to remind them of who we really are and trying to, our do our best to appear, uh, you know, honestly. Um, they may not see that or acknowledge that. The Neptune person may choose just to look right past that and continue to believe what they want. But we've done our best to be honest, and we have to continue to appear honest.

Um, it's very hard to do that sometimes because, um, you know, somebody can, you know, put out there that they love a certain quality about us. And and we may try to rise to meet that. We may try to continue, you know, to to be that. Um, and oftentimes at the beginning of the relationship, everybody is on their best behavior. I mean, that's what it is to be infatuated. We're all trying to reel somebody in. In the beginning, that's a part of it. Romantic relationships come with a very thick agenda, unless you have a ton of Uranus or Aquarius in you. Relationships come with an agenda. We want something. We're looking for a certain kind of lifestyle. Lifestyle. We want to be loved a certain way. You know, we may want to have children. We may, we have a plan. We want somebody to fit into this life plan and help us to achieve the vision for our life. So there's quite a lot of strings that come with romantic relationships. We want to be just real careful about losing ourselves when we have these kinds of aspects, especially as the Sun person. Because as a certain amount of time goes by, we can wake up and realize, you know, I don't even know who I am anymore. I've been living in a way or being in a way that is so pleasing, and, you know, I get a lot of benefit out of it because I get to be this vision. But I, I'm not sure that's really me. And so we can have a kind of identity crisis that can come along at some point if we're really, really engaging heavily in those Neptunian bonds.

Let's talk about the sextile and the trine. They tend to be very good. They are subtle. You would want to look at them in the context of the accumulative weight of those Neptune aspects. Because if they're really heavy and severe, um, just the sextile or the trine is going to contribute more cumulative sugar. So they're actually pretty good in themselves to have. Is just enough gauzy view of each other to help to blur the rough edges. We're willing to look past some things that other people may, you know, really feel are deal breakers. But I mean, we're not going to look past the big things. I mean, if somebody has a tail and we discover that with the sextile or the trine, we're not going to just, oh well, you know, sometimes you're born with several extra tailbone vertebrae. That's how it goes for some people. Is with the sextile or the trine, we're going to be like, hmm, you know, it's, I guess it's not the worst thing to have. There's still just, you know, quite quite handsome. I'm not sure I can, I'm not sure I can do the tail. We are okay with it. With the hard aspects, say with the opposition or the square, we would be like, oh, a tail? Okay. Um, what tail? We just look right past it. So, or we can, we can price it into things. Well, you know, those who have a tail need love too. I mean, so what that this thing, you know, kind of gets out of control and like whips me in the face at night and wakes up. Bruce, everybody with the tail needs love too. So we just go so far out of our way. I mean, that's an extreme example, but these can be extreme choices that we make with these aspects. So we can even look at addictions, like somebody that has a tail and excuse it. We can look at mistreatment. We can look at glaring morality and character issues with the difficult aspects between the Sun and Neptune, and we can find a way to excuse them.

So we have to be very honest about what we're looking at. And we really need to keep, take into consideration the facts of that person. We do not look at the feelings when we're making a critical decision about the viability of a relationship or what is really going on between the two of us. You cannot bring your feelings into it because they are always sympathetic. So we look at what has happened between the two of us. When we have the hard aspects, especially the opposition, the square, the quintile, the conjunction, we have to look at what has happened between the two of us, not how do we feel about it, not what would we like to see. We look at what has happened, and then you make a decision about what you should do or about your judgment about the relationship. You base it on what happened.

Another way to look at it to get clarity is to imagine if it was your friend or even your daughter or your son that was in this relationship. What would you tell them? If when you describe what's going on between the two of you, if they were telling you that to you, if they were going through it, what would you tell them? That can bring a clarity because rarely would we ever counsel a best friend or a child to get into a murky, confusing Neptunian relationship. So we'd have to be willing to evaluate the person based on who they are. And if we can do that, we can have a beautiful love developed between the two of us. Neptune is such an important archetype, but we misuse it. It's the sugar on our cereal, but it's so easy to get into just wanting sugar all the time. So we have to be willing to love each other for who we really are. And if we can do that, if we really discover each other as we really are, there can be that feeling of connectedness and romance and, um, appreciation. The stuff that we're after with Neptune, that can legitimately happen in a clear relationship. We're not sacrificing that, that delight that we're looking for when we're looking for truth. We're not sacrificing that. It's just something that is more tangible to us. It's sweeter and it's lasting.

I think we had a comment here. Is it the Neptune person who's ignoring the red flags the most? It's both of us. It's going back and forth. Um, it's mainly coming from the Neptune person because it's always the outer planet person that gets the interaction going. Um, they don't realize that, but there's this unconscious feeler that we put out when we're the outer planet person. The inner planet person recognizes that and responds to that and and thinks, wow, you know, I'm kind of interested in this Neptune person over here. This outer planet person. And then, uh, the outer planet person responds to that. Oh, the inner planet person has started something with me. But it's always the outer planet person that puts out that first feeler. So, um, it's both of us that are doing the dance, is what it comes down to. We both get wrapped up in this, uh, you know, seeing the fantasy and wanting to be the fantasy. And it's, uh, it's, uh, a circular problem, we could say, between the two of us. And oftentimes, it's going to be the Sun person that is, um, the source or the subject of disappointment first between the two of us. Because they're gonna be themselves eventually. They're gonna slip up, or they're gonna get tired of living out a dream. It feels really good, but often times we realize that it isn't really us, or that, you know, we, we have some, some other richness to add to things. And sometimes that can really get in the way. So, um, we just have to be really willing to to see each other as we really are. And acceptance is a huge part of things.

So with the good aspects, we can go through that major disappointing disillusionment, oh, you're not what I thought you were. But we can also come to find that what they are is pretty darn awesome. With the hard aspects, it's less likely that we're going to have those more automatic harmonies because we have elemental differences. With the opposition between the Sun and Neptune, we have to be really careful that we are not, um, just dealing with a projected mirror of who we both are. It is probably the most toxic of all of the Sun-Neptune aspects to have. I mean, your biology would just start screaming with this opposition. We really feel like we have found the end all be all, and we have to be really, really careful about jumping into a pool with potentially no water. And I have seen some people with this opposition make some critically stupid decisions when it comes to partnerships. There's nothing that you can say with this opposition when someone is struck by it, the square, two of the squares, and the conjunction. But the opposition is the worst when it comes to the potential for unregulated projection and then finding out who we're actually with has nothing in common with that particular projection. So we start off way, way up here, but the reality is way, way down here. See, in in relationships that are not defined by highly Neptunian, uh, contacts, we usually start out about here. The reality is about here. You see, down here, we have about this much gap. But when we have a severely Neptunian relationship, we start out here. The reality is here. That's a long way to fall. And so when the expectation is so high, then the reality is actually so low. Because we can, like with the opposition, see that this is the guy of our dreams, like that's way up here, like we never expected to see this. But they're here, my God. But then we realize he's a homeless heroin addict. That's a big gap. He wasn't the attorney of our dreams. It turns out it was all a line. He's a homeless heroin, living out of his car. We have that kind of severe distance between what these things are.

So depending on what the distance is, we can bridge that gap sometimes because the kind of disappointment that we have, say with the with the conjunction or the sextile or the trine, that's more like, oh, you know, I just love your thick head of hair. And then he takes his hat off and he's he's kind of getting thin on top. Okay, it's not what I expected. I can live with it. I can live with it. It's okay. But the kind of differences where, you know, I, I'm sure that this is such an ethical, good person. And then it turns out that he's a philandering, walking STD machine. This is a big difference here. That's what we get with the square or the opposition. So we have to look at what gap are we going to try to bridge here? Some of those we could definitely bridge. We can definitely settle for the truth. But sometimes we should not be doing that because the truth is so far off from what was thought. We could live with what we thought we had, and what's good for us. Sometimes the truth is not even good for us. And we, we can't just hang on to that vision. We can't hang on to those feelings of infatuation because maybe it'll all come back. No, it's not coming back. And we have to get real about who we're really with and learn to love them as they are. But that doesn't mean the people that we discover are not good for us or that are struggling in ways that we just do not want to price into our lives. Because we realize we only have so much time. We have to be careful about how we're going to spend that time and who we're going to spend that time on. That doesn't mean that we don't love those people anymore after we distance ourselves from them or we just cut the tie or we just realized that the relationship was not, it's not what we were really looking for. That doesn't mean that that, that the good feelings or or the love or the the attachment, you know, is something that, you know, we just discard or throw away. We could still have a lot of respect for it. We can still hold it in a place where, you know, we realized that now we had an unusual, unusual encounter between the two of us. And that can be the bond that is actually there. But it doesn't mean that we should remain together if we find that it's just not meeting the reality mark.

So, a couple of comments here. How long do the effects of the opposition last? Can we ever say we see each other clearly after some time, or is it an aspect that we should always keep an eye on? It doesn't generally take that long for the opposition to reveal itself. It can take weeks, two months, because the amount of projection and then reprojected projection that's going on between the two of them, it's so much that we can't not see what's really there for a long, long time. With this one, we could see it much longer with the square, much longer. Can we remain in la la land with the square? And with the conjunction? Probably even longer, because the conjunction doesn't imply, uh, automatic conflict between those things. And there can be some, some beautiful things that happen with the conjunction. It's one of the, it's one of those that again, we have to look at in terms of weight and and content in the natal charts, because that one is not going to be automatically disappointing for everybody like the hard aspects will. Um, so it's relatively soon that we see what's going on with the opposition. Not necessarily in the composite chart. Let's get to that in a different lesson.

The quintile between the Sun and Neptune, uh, is similar to the square. I would say it's probably harder than easier to deal with. Quintiles have this character of being somewhat of a trine and somewhat of a square. We have some built-in things that are very harmonious, and some things that are going to create that dynamic activity or that change or that that doing, which is in response generally to to issues or problems. Uh, that's what hard aspects make us do. So, um, uh, still, I would say it's not an easy one to deal with because it will inspire a certain amount of seeing things as we'd like to see them. Yeah, these are easy, easy ones to understand if you can really conceptualize what what the Sun means and what Neptune means. The Sun is someone's personal authentic expression. Neptune is the beauty we've always wanted to see. And hopefully, the beauty we've always wanted to see is that person's real authentic personal expression, because that feels even better. Being recognized and idealized and loved for who we really are feels even better than being someone's fantasy, being what someone's always wanted to see. To be appreciated for our authentic self, and to know that that is something that can never disappoint, that's the gift that we can give somebody with the, the honest, open aspects between Neptune and the Sun. So there's a, a beautiful appreciation that can come between the two of us, and an authenticity that can build over the course of time, if we're handling these aspects correctly, or we just automatically have the good ones, maybe not be something that we have to try for in that particular relationship.

Does anybody have any questions or comments about this particular lesson? So, if someone's a very Neptunian person, that they're probably going to feel this a lot harder than a regular person, if you will. Yeah, that's why you wouldn't want to look at the natal charts when you see the hard aspects in Neptune in synistry, especially in composite charts too. We'll look at the natal charts and see, is this coming from, um, one person or usually both people combining their search for that perfect other? And this is what it's resulting in, is both of us thinking that we found that. Or have we actually maybe really found, there's no perfect perfect other, but have we gotten pretty close? Like with the trine or the sextile? You know, and earlier you mentioned, um, people who are more, um, Pluto-like, Pluto-based, if you will. People really like these. Yes, yes. And usually we'll have some amount of Pluto mixed in there as well. A Neptune-Pluto stew is the most addictive in all of archetypal living because we have, we have sugar mixed with caffeine. So we have, um, a pretty addictive mix of elements or of, um, behaviors, of motivations that are mixing. And that those are relationships generally where we're trying to work something out. We're growing through something. Um, we're dealing with a certain amount of pain. There's trauma that's coming up in those relationships. They're hard. And a lot of people that have, you know, a lot of Pluto in in their their natal charts, they can be mistaking that for love. That can be what they're looking for. They think is that extraordinarily intense encounter that's going to bring out the most peak feelings that they could have. We're not dealing with each other out of compassion or out of, um, you know, sharing mutual goals. When we're dealing with each other out of intensity, it's more, um, it's, it's really psychology that's working itself out in the relationship. So there's a certain amount of intensity that can just fail your cue. There's a certain amount of intensity that will come out in the context of normal, healthy, supportive relationships. We will have those moments, but that's not what the relationship is defined by because we don't, we can't have caffeine all the time, can we? We shouldn't have sugar all the time either. These are things that we use in small amounts. And if we are looking for a life where we live on caffeine and or sugar, we're not going to be healthy. It's not a healthy life.

So I think we have to come to terms with, uh, you know, life archetypally repeats itself. Everything repeats itself. Um, and we have to learn to live on our fruits and vegetables and our grains. So, if there's a person who's highly Neptunian or Plutonic, like me, like, could you be happy without these intense ties to Neptune and Pluto? Like, I think we can't. We come to realize what a healthy relationship looks like, and we, we come to want to participate in something like that. But it is very much like giving up a certain amount of sugar and caffeine. Yeah, we're gonna have to do that in order to have stability, in order to have something where we have continuity in that mutual respect. We do have to cut out our desire. Not even our desires, we're probably gonna still have the desire, but we have to cut out the behaviors that are gonna lead to us living in a way where we're bringing too much of what is unhealthy into a healthy relationship. So I think that we can be, we can be happy. But we are always, well, depending on how, how much we grow, how much we heal, um, I, I think that, you know, we may read romance novels to fill that gap, or we may watch movies that have intense, you know, experiences in them to fill that gap. You know, it's like, it's like being a sugar addict or a caffeine addict. And then, or a drug addict. And then we aren't anymore. We're always going to miss the drug. I mean, we didn't stop doing it because we didn't like it. We stopped doing it because it wasn't good for us. And there's a hangover when you come down. There is the illusion. Yeah, there is. But we have to understand that life is about relating to each other in a mature, respectful, con, but stable way. And we will have some amount of caffeine. That's why we, we price it in, you know, we're gonna, we're gonna eat sugar on Friday nights, stuff like that.

Yeah, also, as you're describing it, it sounds like the big problem is that it's people are falling in love with illusions, and it's not a real thing. If it were a real thing, it probably wouldn't be a problem, right? Absolutely. No, it wouldn't be a problem because we wouldn't have the illusion not matching the reality. So we go through this cognitive dissonance in these Neptunian relationships because, you know, what we thought and what is, they're not matching up. So they are very confusing relationships. And, um, confusion in healthy relationships should actually be cleared up pretty quickly. But in Neptunian relationships, it tends to be pervasive. It tends to be a chronic part of what's going on. And that, uh, that's a marker for dealing with each other, um, more out of illusion. So, yeah, they can be heartbreaking yet clarifying encounters to have.

Does anybody else have anything to ask or add? Not today. Okay. Let me see where we're at. Oh, okay. We are almost at an hour. So I think we will, oh, I've got a question. Oh, what about the, uh, in conjunction? The thought or the semi-sex tile? I brought that up. Completely slipped my mind. The in conjunction is interesting. It tends to bring up, it's not as automatically, um, attractive as the other ones because the Sun person doesn't really have anything in common with the Neptune person's illusions because it's an inconjunction. And conjunctions have nothing in common by sign. So how and who the Sun person is really doesn't have anything in common with what the Neptune person thinks they are. Um, so this can go two different ways. Uh, it can lead to an extreme of projection from the Neptune person to the Sun person, which tends to work itself out pretty quickly because the Sun person is not going to be able to keep that up. The Neptune person is going to see, you know, pretty quickly that, you know, I thought I was seeing something, but I'm seeing something else. And so because the the fall, the gap is so great. But the other way that it can show up is, um, that the Neptune person just cannot project their Neptunian fantasies upon the Sun person because the Sun person is such a, it's like a, a screen that will not accept the projection. It's so far off from what the Neptune person ever, you know, from their ideals and their illusions. It's so far off that even the Neptune person can't see them as everything they wanted to see. So it tends to show up as two extremes. But if the first extreme is there, that they do project onto the Sun, it's not something that tends to be able to last for long, like the the opposition. But yeah, that's a weird one when you see that one. And most of the time, I've seen it actually not result in the projections, uh, being poured out upon some person, but the Sun person does not, even if they are poured out upon them, the Sun person does not act those projections out at all. They just can't. There's there's nothing in common. It's like seeing that somebody has six arms and you're like, you know, just got the two, and there's nothing that we could do to try to fake that. So yeah, it's an interesting one when you see it.

Does the semi-sextile work like that as well? Like they, in conjunction? Yeah, yeah. It is much more subtle. Semi-sextiles, it doesn't mean they're better. Um, it is more subtle, uh, but we do have a hard time fulfilling each other's fantasy very well with those particular ones. Yeah, because the styles are so vastly different. The style of what we see, want to see with Neptune, and who we actually are with the Sun. And in conjunction or semi-sextile signs, we just can't. There's there's nothing in common there. So yeah.

Nuke, did you have a question? Oh, you're muted. Thank you. Um, does, does the, um, the projections, does it, can they be negative projections, or are they always positive projections? Do you know what I mean? Like, is there, I don't know. Neptune, it doesn't do negative automation. It does what we want to see. With Pluto, we can have negative projection. Okay. There it is. Okay. Okay. That's where the Pluto comes in to exacerbate everything. Okay. Okay. Makes sense. Yeah, we can get in quite, quite, and it's quite a bit of a boil when we put those two together in one relationship. Anybody else have anything to add or ask? Okay, so we will be back next Wednesday, and we will talk about Sun-Pluto aspects.

Stacy, when we were talking about, uh, the two mixed, like Neptune and Pluto mixed, and, you know, the, the Neptune, the sugar's heavy, but then you get the letdown and see the person and their negativity. I'm assuming the Pluto adds to like more vitriol with the disappointments. Definitely. Yeah. And feelings of betrayal as well. When a lot of times we betray ourselves because we could clearly see that this was somebody who was a homeless heroin addict, but what we wanted to see was, you know, he was the most powerful, capable attorney in town. And so there's, there's like a self-betrayal that comes with it. And we, in the beginning, when we have the letdown, we almost can never admit that to ourselves. We have to see the other person as the problem. Eventually, we may come around to see that, you know, everybody was warning me, or my mother told me, or I saw his bank account statement and said that, you know, he was in the red. And we may start to allow some of that to permeate after a while. But there's such a feeling of, you know, you have pulled a bait and switch. In the beginning, that, um, we really don't hold ourselves generally responsible, at least not right away, for our part in it. And our part was very huge with the hard aspects to Neptune.