Episode 9: The Rabbi's Table with Pastor Jack Hibbs

overear. Oh, God is always there when you got.

Hi, I'm Rabbi Michael Barkley and welcome to the rabbi's table. A place of dialogue, not debate, a place where we can disagree without being disagreeable. And like any dinner table, a place where we can have real conversation, hopefully have some fun, have learn some information, have some entertainment, and grow as human beings.

I am really um grateful for the guest we have uh at our table tonight and today. It's um Pastor Jack Hibbs is a true man of God that I I resonate to on a on a whole bunch of levels. Um he started his ministry in 1990 with his wife. I believe they built it into one of the largest Calvary Chapels in the country uh Calvary Chino Hills. and he's ultimately founded the real life network where he's able to reach millions of people with through video and through different audio and different things that he's doing.

But what one of the things that I really resonate to this man about with is that um he and I both stayed open during co uh we represented by the same lawyer. We're actually the only synagogue in the state that stayed open. Uh my answer was we we didn't close for Hitler. wouldn't close for the Inquisition and Gavin Newsome concished my toas. Um, but we we uh we stayed open as as did Pastor Jack.

The other thing that I really treasure about the man is this is a guy who just like me loves text. He gets off he enjoys exploring and teaching from the actual text. And I think that's so important. I think it's lost so often in both Judaism and Christianity. And so I'm I'm so grateful that we are joined today by Pastor Jack Hibbs with his ministry, the Real Life Network with the Calvary Chapel of Chino Hills for some great dialogue. I hope a lot of fun. Um maybe some disagreement, I don't know, but certainly a lot of joy and a lot of sympotico as we come together at a table in all good ways. So sit back, relax, and let's enjoy having a meal, having a dialogue at the rabbi's table.

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So, we're here at the rabbi's table and so blessed to be joined by Pastor Jack Hibbs. Jack, thank you so much, Pastor, for being here with us, sharing some time together. Um, and it's nice to spend some some quality time just the two of us, too, because I know we intersect in a lot of different worlds. Um, so thank you for being here and thank you for all that you do.

>> Yeah. Listen, Rabbi M, thank you for the invite. I was honored. I It was great because when I heard the invite, I I looked at my schedule and it was impossible. But when I saw that it was you asking, "We made some changes, brother. I would not have missed this for anything." Thank you.

>> Oh, you're so kind and and and you bless me and and and humble me. I There's so much to talk about in so many ways. Um, and I think one of the ways that may be a place to start all of this is the concept of Christianity, Judaism, and God. I've said this, I've written this. I have more in common with you or Pastor Rob McCoy than I have with a secular Jew.

>> Um, and I'm going to guess you have more in common me than with me than you do a secular Christian. Would that be pretty accurate?

>> Very accurate. In fact, it's kind of sad to say that even many now in America that are professing Christians andor Christian leaders, um, you know, as time goes on, I'm I'm beginning to see more and more of a departure from me having a closer relationship with them because they're starting to embrace things that you and I stand against, woke ideologies. And of course at the tip of the spear is an anti-semitic replacement theology view that is anathema when I read the Old and New Testament. And so I greatly appreciate you and and yeah, you are correct. You're absolutely correct.

>> So I'm so glad you brought this up because it's hard for me to make comments on it. There are Jews who are Jews in name only, who are secular Jews. There are Jews who look at me, look how holy I am, and they're no different than the secular Jews. I don't want to say a fake Jew, but I think you know what I'm talking about there.

>> They're hiding behind that mask. So, is that happening right now? It kind of seems to me like it's happening where there's there's Christians, men who have faith in in Jesus as God and who live their life that way, like you, like Rob, like our friend Bob Tyler of Advocates of Faith and Freedom. But then that there's secular Christians and then there's this other sort of woke fake Christian. I, you know, I'm kind of from the outside looking at what what is going on there?

>> Yeah. Well, first of all, biblically, it shouldn't be a surprise to the Christian anyway reading the the New Testament where uh the Apostle Paul said that there are those in Corinth, that's in Greece. He wrote to the Corinthian Christians and told them that you guys are carnal. He used that term carnal. You guys are of the flesh. Now, you claim to know who Yeshua uh and that he's Messiah. You claim this and you you and they were heavily predominantly, as you can imagine, Greece gentile, but they had come to faith in what Paul preached as the the Jewish Messiah. But they were carnal. They were sleeping around. they were uh doing pagan activities which they parttook of before they came to know Messiah and he said there's no change in your life are you you you say you know the truth but there's been no difference in you uh and then of course the book of James steps in and says you can talk about your faith all you want you can put any label on you that you uh can desire but your life lived out visibly uh by the watchful eye of both believer and unbeliever. They should both come to the same conclusion. It's not that they agree with you. It's that they both the world and the believer should look at your life and my life and say those are men of God. Those are men who believe this and that's how they live and um I may or may not agree with them but they are not only sincere about what they believe they are sincere because they understand it to be truth. So Rabbi I'm not too concerned about um what somebody claims to believe or what somebody says they believe. I'm more concerned about the person who's truly uh fundamental to the point that they live it out. Now look, if you're a Muslim, if you are a fundamental Muslim >> uh or a fundamental Jew, >> Yeah. >> what? No. If you're fundamental in these areas, then you are going to live out what you're taught. Hey, look, you and I can go out to dinner tonight because we fundamentally believe in our scriptures, but I don't think I would feel comfortable going out, for example, to dinner with uh, you know, with an Osama bin Laden type because if he's going to be fundamental, he's going to live out what he believes in, >> which means he's going to go after trying to kill you and I. So, >> you and I may not get to finish our get to finish our meal, frankly.

>> So, all right. So, let me ask you a question with this. It seems and the questions I ask I know are true in Judaism to an extent. So I'm I'm really what's more dangerous to Christianity? Christianity as you're describing it's action. It's not just faith. We we need to see that this is a man of Christ. We need to see this as a man of God. Right.

>> So which is more dangerous to the faith that leads to those good actions? either the secularism or the quote unquote fake Christianity. Which is which is is more dangerous to culture and to religion?

>> What a great question. I actually just heard something similar popped into my mind as soon as you asked this driving down to the studio right now. It was this. The report was saying that we're very concerned regarding what's what's going on with China and their currency and what's happening. Uh but they went on to talk about how they can mitigate this. We the the Americans. But then they talked about counterfeit dollars. Counterfeit $100 bills. Counterfeit. The by far by far, Michael, the danger is the person who says they're a Christian. Immediately, I have to be honest. My alarm, my my antenna go up when somebody says they're a Christian. Now it I'm obligated to examine their life without a judgmental spirit, but to examine their life. Does their claim back up is backed up by their lif style? If somebody says, "Hey, I'm a secular this or that or I'm not a believer." You know what? Clear the table of all expectation, anticipation. I know what to expect from them and what not to expect from them. But when somebody says, "Hey, I believe in the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. I believe in the scriptures." Okay. Now, I'm the one responsible to determine if the fruit coming out of their lives is actually bearing witness to their claim. So, a false believer is much more dangerous to then to the to uh Christianity or to Judaism. When somebody says, "Oh, uh, I I follow Judaism, but they live any way but that." Oh my goodness. That's far more dangerous in the Christian community is those who claim to know Christ and then I do not follow him. Which is exactly what Jesus said. He said, "Why do you call me Lord and you do not do the things they say?"

>> Look, I I I I my sense was that was the accurate case. What I found is that Christians who accept Christ in their heart, they come to me because as a Jew and they want me to convert because they want me in heaven with them. And my Judaism doesn't threaten them in any way. It's an act of love. And I say that all the time. You wanted me to convert to Christianity is is an act of love.

>> It's the guys who really don't have that faith. They just say that they do.

>> They're the ones that are dangerous. They're the anti-semmites. They're the Candace Owens, Tucker Carlson's. they're the I mean that's what I have found.

>> Um so it's it's it's fascinating to hear that that you hear that and you feel that. Um we're almost to a break, but but I want to ask you something about that. Just as as an aside note again with Jewish Christian relations, what do you think briefly is the thing that most Jews get wrong about Christianity and about Christians? because I'm constantly fighting that and saying, "Look, there are brothers and they're acting from love." What do you think is the thing that that Jews most get wrong?

>> It kind of goes back to what we just said a moment ago. It's been my experience that the many Jews that I have a relationship with or contact with here in the Los Angeles area is that they have encountered more of the counterfeit Christians than the real ones. And so when we have a chance to dialogue, they actually find me fascinating. I I actually enjoy it. They

>> Well, you you are fascinating. We're we're out of

>> We're coming up to a break and you are fascinating. So, we get to come back to that because I wish that every Jew would have a conversation with you like we're having here at the rabbi's table. So, we're going to be right back here at the table right after this break with Pastor Jack Hibbs and and having a great dialogue.

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So, we're here at the rabbi's table with Pastor Jack Hibbs, and we're just talking about this idea of these fake Christians or these people who haven't accepted into their heart and fake Jews who who act like they're holier than thou, but really aren't living a way that's a shorten before the line of law, living a way that's just, that's really righteously and just.

So, pastor, that makes me really sad. And I mean, as a rabbi, it makes me really sad in some ways, even more than the secular when I see an observant person act who's acting observant, but is really not living that way.

>> And I know that makes you sad, but what's breaking your heart the most, and that may be it, but what is breaking your heart the most about where the church is going today and where it is today?

>> Yeah. By and large, the public example of the church is a departure from orthodoxy. It's the observable church today is not in the word of God. You you go to Sunday sermons, the Bible's not even not only not opened by the pastor, but a big indicator, Michael, is when you see people heading to the congregation to church without carrying their Bibles into church. That grieves me. Uh and they spend so much time these days on entertaining uh the flock. It's what Charles Spurgeon said in 1863. He said, "It appears that there's more uh pastors preparing sermonets for Christianetses." And we see a lot of that today. Which, by the way, I do believe is the reason why anti-semitism is growing among the church in the west is because the the pastors are graduating from seminaries that do not teach Israel. They do not teach esquetology, which is the study of the prophetic scriptures. If pastors and stu and students of the Bible would study the prophecies of the Hebrew prophets, they would know that we are in the days that are actually leading up to God doing a great work with the nation of Israel and the Jewish people, but they don't read it, Michael. So they don't know it. So you've got people

>> expound upon that for a second. So sure,

>> you know, to become a rabbi, there are multiple ways of doing it. There are different or rabbitic schools. You do five years, you end up getting, you know, your graduate degree and then you're and you're also ordained. There's private ordination. You study with private private rabbis and you study that way. And there's different educations if you're form conservative orthodox. If you're doing more than one, whatever it may be, but pretty much you got to study text um to whatever level you got to study Tanakh, you got to study the Bible. So, can you kind of explore this a little bit because you're telling me that that's not the case with all pastors that there I know you're committed to text. I know Rob's committed to text. I I know Bishop Mendes is committed to text. You're telling me that not everyone is that's not the case.

>> That's exactly what I'm saying. That's exactly what I'm imagine this.

>> So, from Genesis to Revelation, we believe that 27 to 31% of the Bible is prophetic in nature. as the term I used earlier escatological but a lot of churches don't teach it anymore so it leads the people to come to a false understanding of the conclusion how does this all end for example will the promises that are made to Abraham that are declared to be forever that are uh without um requirement in the sense that God made it Abraham a a great sleep was put upon Abraham you know, you know what I'm saying? God made that covenant with himself and it's a forever promise. But if people do not study the Old Testament, if they don't study the prophecies that quite frankly started in Genesis 3:15, that the Messiah of the universe would come from the woman, Genesis 3:15. If you don't study sotiology that is the fulfillment of salvation based upon God's promises and God's fulfillment that it's that it's not prophecy then guess what you've got the church replacing Israel in the last days. You've got no true Israeli nation. You've got no real true Jew because now it's all been spiritualized. This comes from 25 to 30 27 to 31% of the Bible not being taught in seminaries today that ordain ministers. Now, let's look, you and I know this well, Michael, that we we're only going to rise above or to the level of what we are taught.

>> So, they don't they're not taking classes in

>> again, I I'm obviously more familiar with the Hebrew scriptures. They're not taking classes in

>> the prophets. They're not learning about the prophecies of Genesis 15 or 17 or or the covenant the both the bulan they're not learning any of that stuff.

>> No, absolutely not. And this is not my opinion. You could go look at some of the courses even online right now. Now, there's an exception. Dallas Theological Seminary is an exception and Liberty University in Lynchburg, Virginia is an exception. But you look at Molt Noma or you go look at Weeden or you go look at uh Moody, you look at uh some of these others, uh most of them by far do not teach it. And so what happens is you've got you've got men in the pulpit replicating themselves among the congregation and they don't crack open the book of Daniel. They don't even know that the book of Daniel is the key to understanding all Bible prophecy, both Old and New Testament. They don't get that. They don't they they don't they can't even argue uh that what God has promised. In fact, Rabbi, let me put it to you like this and to your audience. I spend exactly amount of time in the Old Testament as I do in the New Testament and I preach and teach that way. Why? I'm going to be sarcastic now. How in the world can I even know if the New Testament is true? If I don't study the Old, how do I know the New is true? Because the old has made the prophetic promise that this is what's going to happen. How do I know? Listen, if I stay just in the old, how am I going to know if those promises are ever fulfilled unless I look into the new? But if I only stay in the new, how do I know if those things are true? For example, what's the big deal that the Messiah would be pierced in his hands and his feet and in his side? Where does that come from? Not the New Testament. It comes from Psalm 22. It comes from the prophet Zechariah. It comes from Micah and Isaiah. The New Testament are a bunch of Jews who when they saw what was happening said, "And this was written that it might be fulfilled that was spoken of by the prophet Jeremiah." That's in the New Testament. So the the the old announces what's coming and the new record the new records what's happening and it's a per it's symbiotic. It's beautifully woven together.

>> I I when when we've got graduates from universities saying no we don't study the Old Testament. We don't even have degrees in Old Testament theology. I'm sorry but I would get up and walk out of that church. I'm not kidding. See, I I one of the great compliments I ever got repeatedly when I taught at Loyola, and I've said this before, is when they send back professor reviews is uh and I would teach Hebrew scriptures and is these reviews from Christians and Catholic kids saying, "It deepened my faith in my Christian tradition." Because if you study Hebrew scriptures and you accept Jesus as Messiah, it should deepen your faith. Um, you know, there's there's there's there's reasons that there's parallels. I'm just kind of I I have to admit I'm I'm I'm a little bit surprised and even a little shocked that you're saying so many ministers actually are textually ignorant and and

>> you know I get it. You're not studying the original language, so there's going to be interpretations involved just by translation. But that they're just ignorant. Um that's I understand why why you say that's that's sad and scary in some ways. Yeah. And I think it's indicative of who is who's supporting Israel right now. Who stands up and and understands.

>> This is one of the things that you and I I mean just you and I you and I just boil over this when somebody says I can't get behind Israel because uh they um and I saw homosexuality in Tel Aviv and I saw people drunk in bars. Um what are you talking about? That sounds like you're walking down the street of LA. What are you saying? Israel in all of its dynamic is the only nation in the world that has promises both in the Old and New Testament. Not America. I wish I could say that, but it doesn't. It's not England. It's not Peru. It's Israel. And the text of the scripture, it is about Israel. And the beautiful thing is as a Christian, I believe what the scripture says that when Christ returns to earth, it says that he returns to Israel. By the way, that's in the book of Revelation. So, if people want to reward that, they got a hard time going because he returns to Israel and he establishes his throne. It says the throne of David on Mount Zion. That's not Canada. That's not New York. It's exactly where the Bible says it is.

>> Excuse me. And and look, I I say this all the time. I believe the Messiah is going to come. I'm going to say welcome. You're gonna say welcome back. We're both going to accept him. And he's going to be there in Israel. And and

>> that's right.

>> You know, I I love going to Israel with Christians. I love there's something for those people who have not been to Israel, there's something magical. The air is different. The colors are more vibrant. The food is everything. It's everything's just just fuller. So the preachers aren't preaching. They don't they're not necessarily knowledgeable about text. So, as a result of that, just very briefly, because we're almost at a hard break, one belief that you think most Christians have wrong as a result of that. Just one brief belief.

>> God's eternal promises for the nation of Israel, the borders promised to Abraham will be fulfilled. Those borders given to to Abraham have never been realized under the reign of the Messiah. They will be realized. God is not done. He's in fact he's about ready to go to work with Israel like the world has never seen before. All based on his promises.

>> Amen. And bizarre with God's help. Amen on that. Um so we're going to come right back uh here at the rabbi's table with Pastor Jack Hibbs talking theology life Israel all sorts of different things as we continue here at the table.

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So, we're here at my favorite part of the rabbi's table. It's the podcast section only. It's not in the radio show. So, it's a little bit less structured and a little bit more intimate and for me at least uh a lot more fun because we're not on a hard clock. Um, pastor, you were just talking about in during the radio part, you were talking about the commitment to Israel, to the biblical borders of Israel. And I, you and I have both been very involved politically here in America in terms of standing for religious rights. It's it's something that that's a belief. Um, so for let's for a second kind of segue from Israel would and but but still tied to it in some ways. Would America lose all of its spirituality if it abandoned Israel politically? What do you think would happen? God forbid.

>> Um, and I don't mean to correct you, but let's be honest. You said the word spirituality. Remember any nation including America can depart from the support and its commitment to Israel and re retain some form of spirituality. Zoroastasterism is spirituality. Uh right Babylonianism is spirituality.

>> Okay. So let's connect let's change it to to conscious connection with God.

>> Perfect.

>> How's that? Well so so we in Hebrew the word is which means a unification with God. So let's let's I I appreciate that that correction. So let's let's kind of transform it. Can America keep a conscious an honest real conscious awareness of relationship with God?

>> There you go.

>> Um

>> but and still abandon Israel.

>> The answer is no. Why?

>> Not only is the answer no from scripture but the answer is no from history which God is the one who presides over history. Look at the nations who have turned on Israel. Look at the kingdoms. I mean it's it's the list is incredible. Look at the nations who have tried to eradicate Israel. Um now America is different in this sense. Now this is one reporter's opinion. Okay? This is my opinion. I'm not asking anybody to agree with me. I believe that God established the United States of America for a lot of reasons but the pre-minent reason was to be a big brother almost like an incubator for the rebirth of the nation Israel.

>> Oh, what a great concept. Well, I'm just getting started. Based upon Isaiah 66, Isaiah 66, God says, "Will a nation be brought forth in one day? Zion in her labor will she come forth at once?" And yet in and yet it it happened. And May 14th, 1948, it happened. Who made that happen? Of course, God through using Harry Truman, the United States, there were more Jews in America at that time. It continues to be an incubator to a a sense where Jews are going back home to the for the first time to Israel making their aliyah. That said, how do you explain the fact that the Bible does not speak about the most powerful nation on earth, the most financial uh influ affluent nation on earth, military p, all of these things that America is, but it's not mentioned in the Bible. I I believe that God used America as a gift uh to the world. But most at the tip of that blessing is to be a protective shield and an incubator for the rebirth of the nation of Israel. To whom much is given, much is required. The Bible says, I believe that if if the United States turns its back on Israel, we will embrace other gods instantly. We will retain spirituality. It just will be an abomination to God because we are commanded if we read scripture simply, we are commanded to be a blessing to Israel, to the descendants of Abraham. And yes, Tucker Carlson, that includes all of it and all of them. We don't parse it out. And that said, I'm commanded in the book of Romans by the Apostle Paul that my love for the Jewish people and for the nation and for the dirt. I mean, don't tell the the the department of of ministry in in Israel, but when I go to Israel, I bring parts of dirt back in the pages of my Bible. Dirt. I love the land of Israel because God loves it. Yeah. The whole Listen, the spirit of God loves Israel. I love it. The spirit of God dwells within me. I'm a gentile, but the Old Testament announces that there are Gentiles who will come to the knowledge of the Messiah. That's me.

>> Absolutely. Absolutely. Right.

>> That's me.

>> So, I I really want to just This is a great concept. So,

>> we have these amazing founding fathers and that miraculously create the this United States. And this is a great theology. So you're saying that America was created and exists as its purpose is to protect, serve, enhance, strengthen, help create a modern Israel for which then the Messiah will will come or return depending on how you look at it.

>> Yeah. Based on this one simple verse and it's generic and you you know it better than I do. It's out of the Old Testament. Happy is the nation whose God is the Lord. All right, so check this out. It didn't say happy is Israel whose God is the Lord. It says generically, happy is the nation, any nation. You know, John Adams, you brought the founders up. You know, John Adams said, if any nation would pick up the Bible and follow its teachings, that nation would become great. But if you do pick up the Bible and read it, you will find out that the gentile nations and the gentile who believes in look as a as a New Testament believer, Yeshua, as Messiah, I'm to provoke. Paul used the word provoke. I'm to provoke the Jew to jealousy because I know their God. I know their God intimately. I know I know his word from cover to cover. I know his his nature revealed to us from scripture. What I know of him is from scripture. And it's so strong, safe, and secure that I live my life by that. And so I have no doubt whatsoever that as long as the United States, its government, and its people stands with Israel, uh, God will bless. We're not perfect. Trump's not perfect. I'm not perfect. But if we stand for Israel, God will bless.

>> I will bless those who bless you. I will curse those who curse you.

>> Um

>> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.

>> All right. So, let me take it to a step further then for just a sec because we we both are um teachers, preachers, rabbis. You're a rabbi as well. Just your your title is just different, but the same thing. Okay. in terms of you teach and you preach and you live in a way that that exemplifies the beliefs with God. Should clergy and I've had this dialogue with with Rob McCoy. Um, should clergy I think we all should be politically active but should clergy and should churches be politically neutral or should they recommend things in your perspective?

>> The answer is this. The scripture says, "If you see evil approaching your community and you do not blow the trumpet of warning as a watchman on the wall, their blood will be upon your hands. But if you blow the trumpet and they prepare, then you are exempt from any blood that is lost because you were faithful to warn them." There is no such thing as Christian spectatorship. It's impossible. We there is no place there is no place for the believer that is that is secular because I'm a believer rabbi everywhere I go is sacred. If I were to go today to the bowels of Hollywood I am taking like the priests of old carrying mercy the the the the ark of the covenant wherever righteousness goes I carry it. I don't care what's happening. If there is mayhem or if there is horrible sin taking place if I go there, I'm the beacon of light. In fact, I understand the Bible to say that I should go there and shine that light into that darkness and rescue souls that have been blinded by spiritual wickedness.

>> Absolutely. You should be We all should be a light in the darkness. We should all be um as one one great man phrased it, uh it's not about being in being being in the light while you're on top of a mountain top. Go do it while you're in the marketplace.

>> Mhm.

>> But uh so we we our job is to be sheep dogs.

>> Yep.

>> Okay. Not not wolves, not sheep. I go through this wrestling of the people in my congregation, people in who I who I who come to our synagogue. My job is to help them become more aware of their relationship with God through Jewish pathway. That's how I define my job hopefully through wisdom and through passion and through joy. And that as soon as I put anything political, it it creates a barrier that prevents them depending on where they stand. My belief is that the more observant they get, the more aware they are of their relationship, the more connected they are and the more desirous they are of being politically involved and going in one particular direction. I know a lot of pastors believe that their job is to get up there in church and say, "This guy's good. This guy isn't. This proposition is in sync with the Bible. This is not." That's sort of the the opposite extreme. Um, and there are some rabbis who actually, all too many rabbis if I'm honest, who choose to say my job is is more than anything else to get to get people on the political left. There are a lot of rabbis like that as I think you know.

>> Where do you stand with this and why?

>> Yeah. No, my my stand is proclaim truth in any situation and that means Sacramento, Washington DC and in the living room of my house. Now, look, if I were to say, for example, there's a let's say there's a person running for office and they uh they hate Jews. Uh they don't want anything to do with Israel, but they're running for president. And then there's a guy who's not exactly stellar, but he's pro-Israeli. He's pro he's pro- Israel. He understands it. Um I got news for you. I'm going to encourage my congregation to pray, to become educated in how to vote, but to honor their Judeo-Christian biblical worldview. That's the term, Judeo-Christian biblical worldview. In other words, I am not going to endorse and encourage people to vote for a Haymon when we've got Morai on the ballot. Does that make sense? I believe that that falls to my responsibility. I don't tell them how to vote. I inform them of what is at stake. And so I think as the watchman on the wall that falls under that preview of a shepherd of a watchdog I should say. But Jeremiah 29 verse7 Hebrew prophet announced that we are to seek the welfare of the town in which you and I live in and pray for its protection and for its prosperity so that it might dwell in peace. That is a powerful statement. Proverbs 29 verse two says, "When the wicked are in power, the people groan, but when the righteous are in power, the people rejoice." So, wow.

>> Well, that's those are the reasons I'm very politically active. Those are my justifications for that.

>> Yeah, me too.

>> But from the pulpit, and this is more of a personal question.

>> Yeah. I know that if I talk politics from the pulpit that there will be a certain amount of people who will turn their back on the faith and I have because that's they don't come they don't come to the temple for that. I know that if I am preaching politics from the pulpit well actually I'll give a great example when we stayed open during co we lost a third of our congregation. Now, we streamed for anyone we wanted to stream. We were live for anyone who wanted to be live. But we lost a third of our congregation who said, "You're far right. You're extremist and we will have nothing to do with you."

>> No.

>> Because they assumed that. So, have you had that kind of challenge as well? And how do you wrestle with that as a person, as a as a member of clergy, as a pastor, as someone who's committed to bringing light? Have you had the challenge and and

>> of people leaving? And how do you wrestle with it? Yes and no. First of all, we had 10,000 people when COVID hit. And when COVID hit, we went to 15,000 people. We had multiple services going on all the time. We exploded. Uh I was in trouble. Uh on one Tuesday, I I had 11 interviews of national broadcast levels, all those agencies condemning me for being the pastor who will be known one year from now who killed his congregation.

>> I heard that one. Yes. Yes, you did. And all of that stuff happened. So listen, that said, h how is it that we we exploded in size after that? But then for 36 years, Michael, we have been a church that has been involved in the public square. When people come and they say most often, it's by far this what this when people come and say, "Wait a minute. Did you just Did you just say in your announcement, pastor, not the sermon, but the announcement, that AB 2017, we should call our assembly people and tell them to vote no against having Islamic holidays in California sanctioned by state uh by the state itself. Did you Did I hear you right? Absolutely. You heard me right. Wow. Thank you. I've never been to a church that gives me stuff that I can actually do tangibly. This is amazing. Does one person stand up and say, "I'm out of here." And they walk out. Yes, that's fine. Listen, you said it a moment ago. I hope it's not true. I hope it's not true. I hope this hope when you said that you when if you were to take a stand, people would walk out on the faith.

>> No, it is true. So,

>> wait a minute. Wait a minute. That's their faith. Their faith is tied to you being a good boy and and saying what they want to hear. That's not faith.

>> So, here's one of the challenges in Judaism that we that we face. Um, which is often Jews have become too smart for their own good, if that makes sense. I I know, you know, there's there's there's, you know, a joke that that ends the punchline of it is a board member saying, "What's the rabbi doing in the board meeting?" I know more about the Torah than the rabbi knows. He he's a he's a schmenendrick. He's like, you know, um, does no, my friend and teacher, Rabbi Schul of Blessed Memory, used to say rabbit, a congregational rabbi is the only position on the planet where the people judging how well you do your job have no idea what you're supposed to do. So the reality is outside the orthodox tradition, okay, that especially in the reform and and to an extent in the conservative, yes, people will walk out. Now, I do deal with certain political issues like AB 2017. I wrote an extensive article about it. I've done a lot of speaking. Thank you, by the way.

>> No, it's it's I can't believe people didn't know about this

>> as it's going on.

>> It's so and and the holidays, one of these holidays is about stoning people and animal sacrifice. 50 million animals die every year on this one day.

>> And they want to make this into a bill, this holiday into a state bill. And you know, if something's a state bill, if it's a state holiday, everybody in school needs to learn about it in elementary school.

>> That's right. Required. So, it's that I've spoken about um but I kind of stay away because I really believe there's a threat and we'll talk with Angela a little bit about it. A real threat coming with the intention of creating a worldwide khifa of Sharia law

>> and that there's that's going on. Y

>> but yeah if if I went in and said this is what you know my politics um and or this is what I recommend to people there are going to be a po a portion of the people who will say I'm out

>> but are they for real

>> well it's so that now you get to a different question all right no they're lost Yeah,

>> 100%. And I have a lot of friends and uh who who will say they're lost? Let them be lost. I have real problems giving up on one's soul.

>> Yeah, you can't. We cannot do that.

>> So that's So when you say, "Okay, are they lost?" Yeah, but isn't isn't yours in my job

>> to help help them come back

>> to pursue the lost? So, so, so how do you deal with that in terms of

>> it's yeah,

>> you know, the politics, they're lost. You want to bring them back so that they can accept Christ on their heart.

>> It's this Yeah, Michael, I think it's this way. If if your kids and my kids were acting up and they kept acting up and they wouldn't listen to your instruction as as Solomon tells us in Proverbs 1, they they won't heed the law of their mother. They're not listening to the wisdom of their father.

>> You've been in my household recently. I have teenagers. books. It's called a It's called a family. And what happens is as they grow up, they start telling you how to run your home. And then at some point, you have to say to your kids what you love with all of your heart, you would die for them. You tell them, "In this home, we will honor God. If you don't want to honor God, there's the door. But before you walk out that door, you need to know something, son. The standards of this home will never move. And when you come out of your rebellion and your craziness, the anchor is right back here in this house. But we not we are not going to alter truth for your experiment. We love you. We're telling you, head up right now. We love you, but we will not compromise. In same fashion, those congregants who walked out, one of the greatest ways of loving them is holding your ground in the truth, but with your arms wide open.

>> That's what I That's what I believe. You know,

>> that's right. Someday they're going to wake up and they're going to need a place to come back to. That's when they come back to your congregation or mine because we did not compromise truth. We knew what we were talking about. It wasn't that we made it up. We were following as we are inviting them to follow. Let's do this together. But by all means, today so much in our culture, kids don't have a place to go back home to because the home was never a guiding light in the first place. very similar to congregations.

>> I look, I I agree with you, but it's

>> um

>> it hurts, but it hurts. Love hurts.

>> It hurts watching them walk away with stuff. I you know, I'm reminded of a public figure who used to be close with Candace Owens and it doesn't matter who it is and was really very very

recal. I was the first person to call Candace Owens as an anti-semite two and a half years ago because it was so clear. Um, and I would call her a fake Christian. I just don't think I have the place to do that, if that makes sense.

You have the place to. Yeah. But, but I, I can say that. Um, and this particular person was really Ralston had not called her out publicly. And I said to him, I know where you stand. Why are you doing this? And his act, what, what he said was beautiful because what he said was, I want her to have a home to come back to if she gets sane. Which is the exact same thing you're saying. And it was beautiful. Um, it's a beautiful, godly way of of interacting.

I think, um, I think I think what you just said is honorable. Jesus said it this way. If you see your brother or your sister who's in peril, in trouble, you go to them and you tell them. And, um, why would you say, "Well, the loving thing is to not tell them." No, no. The loving thing is to go tell them. But always know that the door is open for you when you're searching again and when you're looking for hope and you've had enough, you can come home right here. Absolutely. But their actions should not prevent you and I or intimidate you and I from speaking the truth.

No, we have to do that. That's, you know, someone people say it's courageous. My answer is no, it's not because there's really no option.

Yeah. There's just an option. So, let's look at one other thing kind of related in this podcast set about America. This country, this nation, which is founded on such amazing concepts. And as you say, I love that. I love your teaching that it's its job is to to be sort of a big brother, a a Jethro to Moses, a a guide.

It's destroying itself from the inside out. I believe because of a spiritual vacuum. I believe this is a war of good and evil. I do not believe this is, you know, this this is something else going on. And we're acting it out.

Yes, that's right. So, which doesn't make me popular with reform juice, by the way. Um, but I believe it's true. What can we do to get this? What can each individual do? Each person do to bring this nation back to a place where we really are one nation under God, subservient to God, not to the transgenderism where I think I'm more knowledgeable than God because I can change my gender every day. Um, what can what can each individual person do that hears you and I right now to help this to help change this nation? So, it comes back to being one nation, one unified nation under one God.

Michael, the answer is so simple, but it's it's lengthy to to uh to say, but I'll go as fast as I can. Uh, how interesting it is that you mentioned the gender ideology changing daily. Did you know that's the doctrine and the teachings of Ishtar? That is what Ishtar was all about. That's something for somebody to research later, but it's, it means something. The answer is found in the Old Testament scriptures. What happened when Josiah was made king, for example? How was it that the nation turned back to God? What about Hezekiah? What about in the days of Nehemiah? All of them have the exact same answer to your question written in scripture. The word of God was found. They dusted it off. They opened it up and they read it. Ezra did this. They read it. The people were convicted at the reading of the word. They fell on their faces and wept. And they turned back to God. God saw from heaven their hearts that they had rent and he began to heal their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14. That's the answer, Michael. America, watch. America's got to turn back to God. We're not going to have a revival in any other way. There's not going to be a revived economy that will matter. There's not going to be a revival in our military strength. That's not going to matter. It's not going to be a revival of conservatism. That's not going to do it. God is waiting for one thing. For the word of God to be opened, for the truth to go out, people being convicted and saying, "God, we're sorry for all the things that we've done with our freedoms and how we've offended you. We removed your Ten Commandments from our nation's epicenter and from school classes. We have embraced other gods like Ishtar and transgenderism and all of that, the paganism. We have we have set you aside like Deuteronomy 28 warned that if we did this foreigners would take over our land. Our wives would be ravaged by by those whose languages we do not understand. Our our wives pregnant will miscarry and we will not become the lender. We will become the borrower. And those in which we had this land given to us, we will yield it to the invader. That's exactly what's happening in America, Michael. That's exactly what's happening.

Why? Here's what I propose. If if the liberal world doesn't believe in the Bible, how about giving us one year? Give us one year. Let's put the Ten Commandments back in the classrooms. Let's publicly open every city council meeting with prayer to God. Let's have scripture reading. Give us one year. Let's see if God honors it. If he's not real, we'll look like the big idiots you think we are. But see, the truth is, Michael, they will never let you and I do that because down deep inside, they know he's real. Our country has departed from God. And the way to get back is for men like you and I to open up the word of God so that it goes out. People hear God's truth, he rends their hearts in conviction, and they ask him for forgiveness. It's called revival. And the nation of Israel knows revival more than any other nation throughout all of human history. We just need to uh follow that perfect pattern.

No, it's a Torah. Out of Zion shall come forth the law. Um, and and you you make this. I'm actually giving a class tonight on the covenant and politics and and and so preparing for that class. Um, uh, we do a a monthly tool of tobacco. We study and and the synagogue provides cigars and it's nice, you know, we'll get 40, 50 guys and some women just enjoying and it's it's a nice way to study and relax and if that's what it takes to get them to study text, I'll give people a cigar. If it takes, you know, whatever it takes. Um, but one of the things that is so clear, you mentioned Ezra and Nehemiah, is if you look at the book of Judges, the Hebrews do the same thing over and over and over and over again. Everything's good. They do what is evil in the eyes of the Lord. God sends someone to conquer them. They have battles that get worse. They get conquered. They're miserable. They finally say, "Oh, God, we're so sorry." God always forgives. As soon as you open your heart and ask for it, sends a judge, Deborah, Gideon, Samson, whomever. Takes back, everything's great again. They get their their back together. Everything's great. Then it's wash, rinse, repeat. Um, as the the judge dies and the people did what was evil in the eyes of the Lord.

Yep. And I feel like we are often doing that here in the States. And I feel like the answer, as you do, the answer is in Ezra and Nehemiah. The answer is what we call hagbah, to lift the Torah up.

Yep. To show the world, this is the word. This is the teachings. These are the teachings. I agree with you. They're never going to give us a chance to do that. Um, for a whole bunch of different reasons. And so, how can each person, knowing that they're not going to do that?

Right? Yeah. How can each person help others? You know, I I always love that when I learned the gospel actually meant I was a kid when I learned this that it actually meant good news.

I thought that was the coolest thing ever.

Yeah. Okay. That's what it means. The evangelist.

So, yeah. The cool thing about your question is this. It's happening. It's happening individually. For example, um, for those who follow uh the National Football League or Major League Baseball or I mean look what's happening just in that platform. There have been more people openly professing, praying, speaking about uh their relationship with God. Uh, there are politicians even in uh Sacramento and in DC who are open about God. Uh, in fact, I was told this, I don't know if it's true, but the source was good. I'm not going to mention his name, said that he took the time to look at American political history since its founding. Since its founding, mind you. And now at this during this current administration, there are more prayer meetings and more Bible studies taking place among members of Congress than at any other time in American history.

Wow. That's how it starts. One individual. And I I go back to uh I go back to Gideon. I love how Gideon, God tells Gideon to put a torch in a in a clay pot. That's a that's a dumb battle strategy unless God's in it. Get out there at night, hold the pot, and when I let you know, shout and crash the pot and break it open, and all the and the light will illuminate in the darkness, and the enemy will flee. And that's exactly what happened. If one of us made of clay, right? If two of us, what about 12 of us? What about a hundred of us? What about a thousand of us? If we stood bold and let the light shine, that means, Michael, we speak up truth. We don't give our opinions. Who cares? But if we speak biblical truth, then those that hear us will have to deal with it. That's God's business. But I wouldn't be surprised, especially the young generation. We're watching it at the church I pastor. When we stand for truth, the kids are saying, "I'm with you. I haven't stood for anything in my short little life. I don't even know what to stand for." But you said that. I saw it in my Bible. Sign me up. This is what's happening. We're watching it happen. Give people a reason to show up to the fight. Give people a reason to speak up against evil, to blow the trumpet, to show up, to defend the culture in which we're in that we might project a Judeo-Christian worldview. And um, look, if we die, let God uh fill in the ranks, but in the meantime, as for me and my house, we're going to serve the Lord.

Which is I think a one of the things that we need to remember. It's on three things the world rests on the word of God. Ala Torah um ala there's gastim on acts of kindness but alha abdah on joyous labor to serve God and and uh maybe that's a good place to take a pause from the podcast and go back. I do want to have more talk with you if not in this show than another time about those Christian leaders who are the fake Christians who are bringing kids in into something very different because that's that's a little disappointing and and a little disconcerting as well. But we're going to head back into the radio section um as we kind of get less theologically intense because this was joyous, but I don't know if anyone else other than you and I love text as much and talk text all day. So, uh we're going to go back into the radio section with here at the rabbi's table with Pastor Jack Hibbs as we continue our discussion about life, Bible, God, America, Israel, and service. We'll be right back with more of the rabbi's table. If you like what you're seeing and hearing at the rabbi's table, I invite you to subscribe and to follow us on any of your podcast medium, Spotify, iHeart, Apple, whatever it is. You can just follow us. You'll get all the latest information, special information from us. Special segments of podcasts. You can also go to pound 250. You can go on your cell phone, dial pound 2550. When the recording comes up, say find my podcast. It will ask you what podcast say the rabbi's table. And from then on, you will always get our podcast, our show directly to your phone. So, I invite you to sit with me, with our guests, with the different icons and join us by being part of the podcast, part of the group, part of the community at the rabbi's table.

We're back at the rabbi's table with our special guest, Pastor Jack Hibbs. And we've been talking about relationships between Jews and Christians. We've been talking biblical things. And we're going to bring in for the next segment, as we always do, Angela Vanderplume. And Angela is a a a researcher, an author, a writer, an activist, a social influencer, um, and and a wonderful human being. And she always adds a lot to the dialogue. Pastor, I think you're going to like her a lot. She is brilliant woman who can really add some insight, especially when it comes to things like Israel, can the Chryslam alliance, and things like that. So, Angela, thank you for being here um, and joining us. And Angela, meet Pastor Jack. Pastor Jack, Angela, um, and.

Thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here.

And you know, why don't you start us off with with a little bit maybe talking about uh your call, Angela, if you want to talk a little bit about Israel with the pastor or andor what's going on in the Sharia communities communities. He and I were talking earlier on the podcast segment uh about AB 2017, the bill that is trying to make religious Islamic religious holidays into state holidays. So, why don't you start off with with a question or dialogue for for the pastor?

Sure. Actually, you know, you guys were speaking, I believe, in the podcast section. I was uh listening in here and you were talking about speaking truth to power and bringing God back. And I think that is so necessary for the Christian and Jewish community to do because the Islamic community is doing that. Um, this week actually, I don't know if you guys know who uh Representative Chip Roy is, but he just held a congressional meeting where he brought a teenager in from Texas and during his testimony he said, "Listen, in our school library, they are allowed to give the Quran and they are allowed to, you know, give little pamphlets of the Shahada, but we are not allowed to have a Bible inside the classroom. room. We're not allowed to have a Bible inside the library, but you can have the Quran. So, what Islam is doing, our religions are sorely lacking in. And if we do say, hey, you know, we'll allow you to have your religious holiday, which as you said earlier was part of stoning and animal sacrifice, but we can't have Christian or Jewish holidays. It's it's just not okay.

All right. So, pastor, let's talk about this for a sec. Um, because I want to get to a couple things while Angela's here. So we'll try and make it sort of like a a Jeopardy blitz answer or whatever they call it. Lightning round. So what can we do quickly from your theological point of view from your practical point of view? What can we do to fight? They're fighting a war of putting Islam into into the society AB 2017 into the schools. What can we do as Jews, as Christians, as Catholics to fight that war? What can what are the steps we can do on a practical tlless and practical scale?

Hey, I'm going to tell you what we're doing here right now and what we've been doing. And by the way, throw the atheist in on there. They want they need to get on board with us as well. Here's the here's here's what we're doing here with our congregation of thousands. We have uh printed up and made available to all of them by QR code the actual bill and the wording of it. Second thing is you can contact your uh elected official telling them to oppose uh AB 2017. Uh by doing so uh we ampli we amplify our voice. We we practice what God's given us that is a constitutional republic and we have the people get involved because John Adams or excuse me Ben Franklin said that he the government has has given us a constitutional republic if we can keep it and so that's how it's kept you guys the the this nation a republic means we the people the people speak the people enact the people say what they want and what they don't want if we don't get involved Islam will and and we all know how history goes they will come in and they'll push everything out and once they have the opportunity then no you can't add a Christian holiday you can't add a Buddhist holiday you can't do any of this it's only Muslim holidays that's history but we need to stop it and we need to do what we're doing in our congregation informing everybody and showing them how they can reach their elected official and here's how it works you tell your elected official I'm watching how you vote on this. I'm asking you to vote no to oppose it and um I'm watching your actions because it will affect how I vote for you in the next election.

I've also added that people should people should reach out to their Republican uh candidates and say make this an issue for the election.

Absolutely. Bring it out. I don't think most Democrats, most Republicans, I don't think anyone wants this. How can people get that information from your church, Jack? How can they do that?

Real Sure. It's simple. realimpact US. us realimpact us and just go to that website. It will tell you everything to do throughout the state of California. It will show you who to contact, how to leave a message, what to say, and it's been extremely effective.

And again, that site is realimpact US.

There we go. So, that's one way. Um, Angela, you just were recently in Israel with some some pastors and different people, right?

I was um so I visited Israel back in January um for the combating anti-semitism conference and I have a few friends um and I was lucky enough I kind of snuck my way on but I was semi-invited um onto a trip with Pastor Rob McCoy who I hear that you're really good friends with. So I had the honor and distinct pleasure of spending the day with him. Um, unfortunately it wasn't, I would say, the best of circumstances because we were on our way to the Kubam and the Novaite Festival and the and the horrible tragedies of what happened on October 7th. But I found it particularly interesting and heartwarming not only to meet Pastor Rob McCoy, but to be here to be there with him on his journey when he saw what happened and to see his sincerity as a pastor and to feel the the love for the Jewish people um and to know that we truly do have allies um in their sincerity. And you know, we walked around in this kibbut scene and it was it's a horrible story.

I don't know if you know this.

No, no, don't go to a horrible story. Don't.

Well, no, it it turns out really it turns out really good. So, we're in the kibbut scam and you know they the the children they were there and unfortunately they died and we found like a little a little shoe print of of one of the children and you know we're all crying and we're having this.

This meaningful moment but on our way back we get this announcement and the last hostage the last one was found and he was brought back home. And I got to sit on a bus with you know all these wonderful people. It wasn't just Pastor Rob McCoy, but we went through this tragedy, but then we found out, you know, the last one was home. And we all got to rejoice in that moment together. Um, and it just solidified for me the the Christian Jewish alliance that we have. And it and it is real and it doesn't matter what anyone says online or all the rhetoric out there. It's a real true friendship.

Well, it is unless unless we're dealing also with the type of that fake Christian, whatever we want to call it, pastor.

Of course. That is, you know, that that Chryslam type of alliance, so to speak. Um.

How do we Angela tell just tells the story about Nova, about Hamas? How do we deal with the Nick Fuentes and Hodge Twins and Tate Brothers and these people who claim to be Christian or Catholic who claim to have Christ on their heart? What should be done about them as they take that and are seducing younger Christians to be anti-Israel or pro- Hamas, pro Palestine, which doesn't even exist, but but to what she experienced. How do we how do we get that teaching? How how do you do that with people? And what do you think people we should do?

Yeah, I am. Look, I am uh I am 100% confident and rejoicing and thankful to God for truth. Truth. I stand with the truth. I don't get to make it up. It's not my truth. It's his divine revealed truth in the word of God. And that said, that is the absolute foundation upon which I stand. So for example, if I'm going to talk with Carlson or Fuentes or Owens, I'm going to do my best to give biblical truth and let them I'll be the middleman. Let them argue with the reality and the truth of God's word. That's how lies are exposed. People are liars. The Bible says God said Jeremiah, God said through Jeremiah uh that people's hearts are wicked, desperately wicked, who can know them? But he says, I the Lord know them. He announces that men are liars, mankind are liars. What is the what is the counter response to lying? Truth. Be a truthteller and speak truth the moment you know. Look, little Jack can come along and announce biblical truth that can kind of blow up the situation that Tucker Carlson's is going to have to deal with. He doesn't have to deal with me. Look, I don't have his clout. I don't have his money. I don't have his influence. I don't have to. All I have to do is restate, declare God's truth. And now it's between God's word and those naysayers, those that are pervy in falsehood. And I don't let them get me down. I don't let them influence me. I know God's truth because I've read it for 50 years now and it's immovable. It's eternal. It never returns void. And that's my joy. So on top of the fact, God's truth says that in the last days, there's going to be a lot of people speaking evil of the truth and by their pernicious ways will lead many astray. That hurts, but it's true. I thank God that he said it because it doesn't make me feel better about them. It breaks my heart for them, but at least it explains why they are how they are.

It's, you know, it's we have something called midrash. These are um extrabiblical commentaries that are thousands of years old. Uh, there is the teaching that over twothirds of the ancient Hebrews actually didn't come out with Moses out of Pharaoh because they were falling the wrong ways.

Um, it can happen to anyone. Um, and so what's your experience? Actually, let me because of time, I'm being I'm going to be conscious.

Sure. Um, you've experienced a lot of quote unquote Christians who are hostile to Israel, right?

Yes. Yeah.

Both in Israel and here. Jack, can is that even possible or is that a conflicting imperative? Is it possible to be a Christian and not support Israel? I'm not talking the government. Support Israel as a nation, as a people, as the Jewish nation. Is it even possible to do that?

I'm I'm again I'm going to let truth answer. The Bible tells us Jesus said it himself that when he returns he will judge the nations of the earth. And the criteria by which he judges them in Matthew chapter 25. The criteria, listen to this. The criteria will be how did you treat my brethren? It's not Christian. How did you treat my followers? That's not the word. How did you treat my brethren? He's talking about his blood brethren. When he returns, he's going to ask the nations and individuals, how did you treat my brothers?

That's a great. My brethren, the the Jew.

A lot of. Listen, a lot of church leaders blow this interpretation because they again they they read it wrong. They don't dive into the study of of the text. The Jesus says it, how did you treat them? And we have to we're we're going to have to they're going to have to come to your church so they can learn how to treat them.

Because we are on that time. So I want to recommend everyone come to that church. I have one other question, brief answer. I ask every person this question. One word or phrase that describes Pastor Jack Hibbs or Jack Hibbs as a human being. One word or phrase for your soul.

Uh, truth. Truth.

EMTT. The beginning, the middle, the end. And that is a great way and I think people should explore truth by going to the real life network, going to Calvary Chino Hills, exploring the writings and teachings of Pastor Jack Hibbs. Angela, thank you as always so much for being here. I really want to explore more of this, Jack. We just have to do it outside because of the time, but I'm so grateful that you've joined us at the table. It's like having a dinner talk and we want to have dinner again. Um, yeah. Thank you so much for your teachings, your way, your passion, your love, your life, your devotion, your prayer, and your truth. May you always be strong and blessed. Kazaku Baruk, may you and your family be strong, blessed, and protected now and always. Thank you for joining us at the rabbi's table. Shalom.

We've just been so blessed here at the rabbi's table to have Pastor Jack uh Hibbs come be a guest and and speak Torah, speak Bible, speak God, speak a number of things. And there I think there's two teachings. People ask me as a rabbi, how can I respect someone like that so much? And and there's two teachings I'd like to share about that. Number one, I've shared before that for anyone who is not a Christian that when someone who is a Christian comes to try to convert you, they're not going to get anywhere with me with me. I accept that's their belief. It's not mine. But when they try and convert you, it's coming out of love. They want you to be in heaven with them. Don't degrade them. Treat them with respect. I certainly do. uh even though I'm not converting, I'm very happy where I am. The other thing to remember is there's a wonderful wonderful story, wonderful teaching. We all have a tikkun. This is not what is generally interpreted as social action. Tikkun means peace of repairing the world. Each of us have our own piece designated by God. I can do mine. You can do yours. We can't. I'm not. I shouldn't do yours. You shouldn't do mine. And it's kind of like we each have an instrument to play. Saxophone, violin, whatever it may be. And our life's journey is about finding the instrument that we're supposed to play and playing one note and playing it in tune. And if we all play our instruments that we need to, that our souls yearn to play, if we all play that note in tune, that's the sound of heaven on earth. That is the celestial sound. And that is the truth. Pastor Jack Hibbs, he's playing his note, his his tune, his piece of repairing the world. I'm doing the best to do mine. We all need to pursue truth. We all need in any way we can to really express our souls in ways that are honest, beautiful, and are in harmony with others. I thank you for joining the rabbi's table this evening with Pastor Jack Hibbs. I hope that we all learned something. Hope we had a little bit of entertainment and certainly to respect each other whether we disagree in different things but with do without disagreeable and to bring more peace and harmony in the world. Huzzah Baroo. May you be strong. May you be blessed. I will see you next week here at the rabbi's table. Shalom.

Faith over fear. Oh God is always there.