Transcription
[Music] thank you okay so if we start our first session next week what would it look like?
Okay, what would I have to do? Yeah, we both come in. Your job sounds simple, but it's not that simple. You sit down and you start reporting without any censoring, whatever's going through your mind, your feelings, your thoughts, with some connection to the problems you're having in life because we don't want to have it just vague and sort of trivial what you're saying, but to speak freely. This is the simple but useful method to get eventually to those parts of yourself that seem to be unavailable right now, that seem to be out of your awareness, that we need to know about.
My job would be to listen, to take in what you're saying, to observe, to try to come up with ideas that I might propose to help understand what's going on a little beyond what you're aware of, to help increase your awareness. It sounds simple, but it can be quite useful.
Okay, so I have to become more aware. Yeah, but the way you say it makes it sound there's almost like criticism that, oh, if it's that obvious, why don't we just do it? Yeah, because you, yeah, again, you're saying a lot, but I, I'm just trying to understand what I can do. Okay, uh, what was unclear about what I? No, I'm just summarizing it, but oh, there's no criticism. Yeah, I'm not criticizing. Yeah, okay, well, I'll take that into account.
Um, but beyond those basic roles of your speaking freely and my making an effort to understand and perhaps propose ideas that we could think about together, we have to have an understanding about problems that could interfere with your progress. Now, I think your drug use is more of a problem than you say. You say it's medical marijuana. I've been told that you use cocaine from time to time. That it can, yeah, but that's with, but that's with people. I mean, you were telling me last time, but it's a problem if I'm, to me, it makes me disconnected from other people, but if I'm using it with people, then I'm connected with people and we're having a good time together. It's not the same as taking it on my own or drinking on my own.
Well, it's important you bring that up because the whole idea of connection to other people is more complicated than we might think. You say that when you use cocaine, you connect. It's only like two or three times a month. So, but I'm wondering if that's the kind of connection to people that would be most satisfying to you in the long run in life because that's the only correction that works well. But I would see that as part of the problem, not the solution. If it's hard to connect to people when you're not high, that suggests that there's something about your experience. Something wrong with me. Uh, well, yes, but the way you just said that makes it sound like you feel I'm insulting you. Oh, yours, it feels like you're psychoanalyzing me, which, which what the last therapist did, and then it ended up with, with me having to find a new therapist. So I'm just, yeah, curious where this is going.
Okay, um, I want to get back to the basic concept that are working together is based on a fundamental agreement. If, if you're happy with the way you relate to people high on cocaine and that's not a problem for you, it's not my business to criticize that. But I would not see that as compatible with our goal of your establishing long-term intimate relationship that would be, would be deeper and kind of more satisfying over time. And it's not possible to meet someone in that way. And then we can change together. It hasn't worked so far from what you've told me. So maybe I can meet someone in a support group, someone who's also trying. Were there a lot of ways to meet people, and we can talk about what you've done or what you haven't done and how it is. But I wanted to say that in addition to the basic method of doing therapy, there are certain behaviors in your history that I think would interfere with our therapy being successful. One is the cocaine use a few times a month. The other one is the unsafe, unprotected sex. I mean, people can still get sick, get STDs. Yeah, but you can get a pill for that. But how does that relate to having a personality? Well, well, you know, sexuality is an important part of life, so it's kind of nice if it's integrated into the rest of a broad, rich, deep relationship. And you've described these kind of impersonal, random encounters, anonymous people you don't know. And if that's fine for you, that's okay. But I, yeah, I don't see how that's a problem. Again, it goes back to this homophobic and also your very limited, narrow-minded way of seeing things. Where is the homophobia? It's very heteronormative to think that I should only be with one person. And then I'm, I don't see the problem.
Well, I'm not saying you should only be with one person. I don't think I've said that. That's up to you. What I've heard from you is that you'd like to have somebody to share your life with, somebody to get up in the morning and have them there, and you know, sort of have long-term goals and a deep relationship and you know, getting to know each other and have a future and plans. And that doesn't seem to have been a part of your life so far. So you can call that heteronormative, but I'm just talking about what seems to be one of your wishes. And that's something that within a year, two times a week, I can start doing if things go well. It could start within a year. Um, therapy takes time. Emotions are pretty complicated. What comes up when two people get together can be very intense. What comes up in our sessions can be very intense. That might be one reason earlier therapies didn't work because sometimes the intensity of emotions in the therapy overwhelms the therapy.
But I want to make it clear, like you're taking my first older therapist perspective on this. How so? That it didn't work because it became intense because, but he should have been able to handle how intense it. Well, that's what I'm saying. Yeah, yeah, no, I'm saying therapy is a very special experience. It provides the opportunity to feel anything you're feeling, to express anything you're feeling, to not act on it that would interfere with the therapy. But no feelings are not a lot. I'm trying to say this so it's clear. All feelings are allowed in the therapy. There are no feelings that are prohibited from the therapy. And sometimes that's difficult. Sometimes one or the other person or both get uncomfortable. But unless we have an environment where all the feelings you have, the whole range, can come out and be expressed, then it's not going to work. Okay. All right. Okay. So do you have any remaining questions? If we can start, if our first session can start in the late afternoon, then I can do it. Let's go back to that. But first of all, I'm sorry I laughed. Yeah, you keep laughing. Well, I was, there's something wrong with what I'm saying? I think my laughter then was a little bit of frustration that we keep coming. Frustration with me. Uh, uh, to be honest, yes. And that's why you don't want to commit to that you're going to be my therapist for a whole year.
Well, but you're selling me an idea of therapy, and I'm trying to communicate that my commitment is to a way of doing therapy that I think could be very helpful to you, but that it requires certain conditions. So I can't commit that I'll be your therapist forever if the work we're doing doesn't fit within the frame. The frame is necessary to proceed with the work. It's like a surgeon needs certain conditions to do the operation. In my mind, a therapist needs certain conditions to do the therapy. So suppose we were to agree and then you didn't come to half of your sessions. I would say, we have to acknowledge this therapy isn't working. You're not here enough to do our work. So I would say, do you have exp? How can you talk about your? Before I agree to it, I would like to hear about your previous experience in curing people with personality disorder. Do you have, have you done it before? Um, well, yes, yeah, I have. Uh, and how, how long did it take? Usually it takes two or three or four years, sometimes even a little longer. As I've said, we've studied it for a year, but most therapies go beyond a year. And I think those are valid questions. So we've talked about the time, but you're trying to get a more precise idea of how it works. Yeah, yeah, that's the hard part because it, it's a matter of what emotions come up. It's a matter of what you bring in here. It's a matter of how we are able to first just let those emotions be and then reflect on them together. It sounds simple, but it's not as simple as it sounds because it sounds confusing because you say that I can bring all my emotions here, but the problem is that my emotions are all over the place. So which one is it?
Well, the fact that they're all over the place, uh, is not a problem. In fact, you know, I, what I've said to you is that I think the fact that your emotions are all over the place out there and the rest of the world creates problems, but here in therapy, this is where I'm setting up this frame of treatment. Your emotions can be all over. If you're frustrated with me, as I'm calm right now, what's, what's the guarantee that you won't be frustrated if you see all my emotions? Well, that's a good question. I guess you're asking if I can follow through on what I'm saying. Yes, but even though the work we do together is based on your, I'm supposed to make you not frustrated with me. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. I could have my reactions. Generally, I keep my reactions to myself, but my job is if I have a reaction to work with it so it doesn't interfere with our continuing to work together. Okay, that sounds good. If you can promise that, I can promise I'll make every effort to do that.