Transcription
So, Wagner, Christian Wagner, loses his mind. And so, he puts out this video that is, "No, you can't kiss your girlfriend." So, he's a Roman Catholic apologist, okay? He's actually a pretty smart guy, all right? I'm not going to disparage his intelligence. Like, he's a very intelligent guy. But, he's got this like medieval, he's trying to shoehorn this like medieval Thomistic worldview into modern Roman Catholicism. And the church just isn't that anymore. It's just completely changed. It's completely different.
So, he's trying to push from like historical texts this narrative, "You can't kiss your girlfriend, you know." This is the guy that's done shows in the past, I believe. Okay, I believe he's done shows in the past talking about how it's like, it's a venial sin, okay? It's a venial sin if you enjoy yourself while having relations with your wife. So, this has become kind of a meme. Everyone was sharing this all over multiple different social media platforms, okay? So, I post a little bit of a joke, okay? It's a little, a little joke. He didn't like it too much. Uh, but with a little bit of truth at the end. So, I say, "E Catholic theologians, you can have relations with your wife, but if you enjoy it for even a moment, you're in mortal sin." Okay, that's an exaggeration. Venial sin, this is, this is what he says. "IRL contemporary Vatican statements, sin in its root does not consist in the same-sex couple relationship, but in a lack of faith in a God who desires our fulfillment." These guys are arguing for a Catholicism that no longer exists. Okay?
So, this is a real Vati-, this is a real statement from a Vatican study group. Wagner loses his mind when I say this. He goes absolutely bananas. He gets mad. He says, uh, "Hold on. I'm going to pull this up real quick. This is his response. I don't know why they jump to this. They jump to this every time. Cleve following flowing, I guess. I think he's trying to say following. Cleve following his pattern of lying. You lying grifter, Cleve. You evil demonic son of Satan, Cleve. Like when he actively defended Protestantism for weeks while Orthodox unironically actually a lie. Bad faith actor." Okay, so I've discussed that part like a million times. I did a video with Miles from Canon and Creed. He uploaded it like a month after the fact. Okay. Um, or I don't know. It might have been like, yeah, anyway. But the, the, the subject of the video that I did with Miles was why Protestantism's losing and what you can do to make it not suck so bad.
>> [laughter]
>> I would say the same things now. It's not like I'm defending Protestantism. The closest I got was I did a video with Gospel Simplicity and I was like, "I want to debunk the Roman Catholic canon," cuz they hold even the deuterocanonical books to the same level as the other 66 books. Which is an accreted belief. That's, that's not, that's not consistent with the early church.
>> [snorts]
>> So, I did a video with Gospel Simplicity there and he kept asking me questions about the Protestant canon and I was like, "Uh, dude. Like, I'm, I'm like, I don't know. I really don't want to be defending the Protestant canon." So, I'm, I'm like, "From the Protestant perspective, they would say this." After that, I was like, "I got to rip the band-aid." I'm, I'm like, I'm like, "About 95% of the way there. I'm just going to go ahead, you know, whatever. I don't need to be convinced the rest of the 5%." I'm just going to go ahead and announce it. Uh, but anyway, I've explained that multiple different times on my show. But, you know what's ironic though? This is rich coming from Wagner because a lot of people don't know this. Literally don't know this about Christian Wagner, but he converted from Anglicanism to Roman Catholicism. Okay, in 2021. And, you know what he did? He published literally in the North American Anglican a defense of Anglo-Catholicism in October on October 1st, 2021. And then announces his conversion to Roman Catholicism October 22nd. And this is a guy calling me a lying grifter when I actually stopped doing Protestant apologetics for like a month or two at least leading up until the announcement. Like, I, I, that's, I just did news. Maybe it was even longer than that. I don't know. I'm bad with time. But I just did like news and interviews. Meanwhile, he's actually writing articles defending Anglo-Catholicism, which is not Catholicism. This is Anglicanism. Only 20 days before his announcement. And he wants to call me out and call me a lying grifter. I'm like, "Dude, what are you doing here?"
These people are so, these people are so bad faith. And they always project. They always project it onto you. They're like, "Oh, no, you're the bad faith actor. You're the bad faith actor." What are you talking about, dude? It takes like a 2-second Google search to go and see that you're being a hypocrite. And I'm going to be real. I don't even care that he did this. I don't even care that he did his Anglican article or whatever. I don't think that's a big of a, that's that big of a deal, you know. Conversion processes are different for everybody. Everybody goes through kind of a different, you know, whatever. He was a seminarian, okay? Uh, I'm sure he was working through some of his college courses or whatever. He didn't have to publish this here, though. But I don't even think that's that big of a deal. What I do think is a big deal, and what is hypocritical, is when you go and you attack other people for the perception of doing the same thing that you literally freaking did, dude. This is like, what are we doing here, guys?
Look, this is what apologetics has become, by the way. Have you noticed this? I just want to point this out for everyone to see, because this has become a common theme. Roman Catholics are no longer arguing with people about doctrine. They're not doing it. Protestants are no longer actually arguing with people about doctrine. They're not doing it. Maybe some like evangelicals that are like super high on the Dunning-Kruger are doing it. But, Protestants aren't doing this. You know what they're doing? It's all character assassination apologetics. That's entirely what they're engaged in. Oh, they're a lying grifter. Oh, Orthobros are mean. Oh, people are so evil. Oh, ABC123. And that's all it is. They don't engage with the arguments anymore. It's just attack you personally, and then I hope people aren't going to listen. Did you know? I mean, this is literally the strategy. Did you guys notice this? I'm not insane. Check this out. I want to show you something, cuz what they're trying to do is they're realizing that when people actually start listening to these arguments, they end up becoming Orthodox. You like, across the board. This is why when David Wood's like, "I'm, I'm going to challenge your belief system." We're like, "Great. Try. Go ahead and try. We would love for you to expose your audience to our beliefs, and for them to be challenged, so that they can see how resilient it is, cuz we actually have the truth on our side." So, we don't mind it being aired out there. You know what they don't like? The Roman Catholics don't like when you play LifeSiteNews articles, 3 hours worth of Catholic scandals and insanity. They don't like that. Cuz then I end up getting 20 emails or whatever over the course of the next week from Roman Catholics saying, "Uh, I kind of want to become Orthodox." Maybe not that many, maybe like 10 or so from them, okay? I do get a lot from Protestants. Roman Catholics maybe like more conservative, like 10. Um, speaking of which, if you're interested in doing that ex-Roman Catholic apologetics uh documentary or whatever, conversion documentary. I'm doing one. It's going to come out or the deadline is June the 1st, but if you were interested in that, please send me an email cleavetoantiquity@gmail.com. Um, I'm going to have you uh on camera giving your testimony. I've got a list of questions and I'm going to edit it together just like the last documentary for Protestantism, but it's going to be Roman Catholic converts to Orthodoxy. I don't care how long ago you converted uh to uh Orthodoxy from Roman Catholicism. I just want to hear your story and I want the world to hear your story. So, if you're interested in that, share that with me and uh, you know, I'll uh I'll give you the instructions to participate if you're not already. Deadline is the 1st for it to be completed, everything filmed. So, uh, let me know.
But, I want to show you this. Okay, so back to the subject. So, Wagner, the strat is this. I'm going to pull up his channel, Scholastic Answers. The strat is for people to remain as uninformed as possible. They do not want you watching Orthodox apologetics. They don't want you engaging with this stuff, okay? And I'm going to prove this to you. This is the narrative. That's why they do the character attacks. That's why everybody's doing character attacks instead of engaging with the arguments. Because you know what happened when Ruslan had um Father Peter Heers on his show? You know what happened in the comment section? Everyone was saying, "Thank you so much. I'm interested in Orthodoxy. Thank you so much. Oh, this is really interesting. I'm going to look into Orthodoxy more. Thank you so much." And then what happened? Immediately after that, he put out a video that was like, "Five Reasons I'm Not Orthodox." Okay. So, this is what happens. They realize when people actually interact with it, they start to become Orthodox. The same thing happens with the Roman Catholics. They realize, "Wait a minute. Maybe this isn't actually the right church. Maybe there's a reason everything's so corrupt and insane." So now, what they do is the character attack stuff. And they put out videos like this. Check this out. "Catholics are forbidden from watching these videos." This [laughter] kind of, "You cannot. This is a mortal sin if you watch Jay Dyer videos as a Roman Catholic."
>> [laughter]
>> Please don't watch. Please stop leaving Roman Catholicism. Please do not watch Orthodox videos. [laughter] Good grief, dude. Mortal sin for you to watch these things. So, this is the new strat. It's just to try to get people not to engage with it at all. Uh, this is why they're doing the, the character, the character assassination stuff. It's absolutely absurd. Uh, but anyway, yeah, it's, it's absolutely wild. So, yeah, Wagner, Wagner was crashing out a bit. A lot of people were sharing this. [laughter] Was sharing this meme. No, well, this is an actual, this is his actual video. "No, you cannot kiss your girlfriend." So, uh, he got, he got a little upset. I think maybe he was just getting too many notifications. But this is what they always jump to. Oh, you're bad faith. Oh, you're grifter. Oh, you're lying. Oh, you're ABC123. One thing that I, one thing that I want to point out though, what the heck is he saying I'm lying about? What am I lying about? Can anybody let me know? Cuz I don't see where the lie is. Is it this? Cuz it's actually a venial sin. This is actually a joke, but is it, is it this part? I think he's saying I'm lying about this. Okay? Cuz this was actually the, the uh, results from study group nine. This was a recent Vatican study group that interviewed two same-sex couples uh and they come to the conclusion that sin doesn't consist in the same-sex couple, but just in their lack in faith in God if somebody was like had like little faith. Now, if he thinks that's out of context or maybe that's not binding or something along these lines, uh, well, I've got news for you, dude. I've got news for you, buddy. Check this out. This just dropped today. Uh, was it in this guy's live? Okay. I don't have the document, but I love this channel, so little, little cheap shout-out for Anthony Stein here, Return to Tradition. Excellent, excellent, excellent trad cat channel. Obviously, I don't agree with him theologically, but news-wise, top tier. Top tier. He gets the breaking news stuff. Excellent. "Vatican declares satanic synod documents binding for the church." Whoa, wait a minute. I thought I was a liar. I thought I was a lying grifter. I thought I was a lying grifter. Oh, wait a minute. You teach telling me study group nine where it says uh the skittle stuff is not a sin in and of the couple itself, it's uh, it's just a lack of faith in God. That's the sin. It's not necessarily literally what the Bible says. Oh, well, guess what? Now they're going to be pushing this stuff out and making this binding upon the church. Uh, Alex is going to join at 9:00. He'll be jumping in. I'm actually also going to have Ash Maze potentially swing by the show at 9:00, and he's going to talk about his little debate with JP Uncut. If he doesn't show up though, I had a phone call with him and he gave me some some deeds on that. So, that'll be interesting. But, Alex is going to swing by at 9:00. So, this, this study group 9 document, okay?
>> Did.
>> Actually, uh
>> [laughter]
>> actually ends up becoming binding for the church, and they set a deadline for it. Okay, hold on. Let's see if I can find it. Do do do do do. All right. So, yeah. Long, long story short, they're going to end up making this binding. Okay? This is going out. This is going to be uh, this is going to be implemented in all the various jurisdictions. So, with all of its, with all of its uh entailments. Here's the statement here. "Synod documents should be received and integrated as far as possible despite the backlash over pro-LGBT report." But, I'm a lying grifter here. I'm a lying grifter. Well, you know what? Any of your cope arguments are out the window now. Your own church, the Vatican, literally says, "Guess what? This is binding. This is going to be integrated as far as possible. We don't care about your backlash on this skittle stuff." Oops. Whoopsies. Again, for those that are just now joining, this is the statement from study group 9 that's going to be binding for the Roman Catholics. "Sin at its root does not consist in the same-sex couple relationship, but in a lack of faith in a God who desires our fulfillment." This is a part of the study that they would like to implement across the board. New statement. "Synod documents should be received and integrated as far as possible despite backlash over pro-Skittles report." Now, in quotations, "as far as possible," okay? "As far as possible." So, as far as pastorally possible in the local parishes. But, yeah. You got the right idea, Camp. That's what it seems like. By saying the sin isn't specifically Skittles stuff, they're paving the way for future accept. Yes, exactly. That's the way it reads. That's exactly the way it reads, right here. Yep, exactly. It's what it seems like. Okay? Now, of course, Roman Catholics are are going to cope and they're going to say, "That's not the case. Oh, that's not, that's not what it means." But, literally what the study group says is, "Sin at its root doesn't consist in same-sex couple relationships. Just in a lack of faith. That's the sin. That's the real sin." Remember, James Martin was pushing this thing that was like, "Oh, it's not the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah isn't actually sodomy. It's um, it's not being hospitable." Right? They tried to shift that around. That's what Father James Martin did. Who, who, by the way, blocked me on X when I asked him a very simple question. I asked him, "Do you think people are born Skittles? Do you think people are born that way?" He didn't want to respond to that. So, he blocked me. He's like, "Get out of here. I'm not. I've left plenty of comments under Father James Martin's posts. He did not want to answer that one. He was like, "Whatever. I'm not. I'm not even. I'm not even going to uh, I'm not even going to bother." Cuz we already know what his answer is. He thinks yes.