Transcription
[Music] What's up, Michelle? Good morning. Good morning. Doing good. How are you? I'm running a scam called a podcast. It's amazing. You should get one of these. It's so good. Oh, yes, yes, yes. So, what's up?
Okay, so my husband and I have a question for you. Um, we, our daughter, our oldest daughter is married. We absolutely adore our son-in-law. He's amazing. But, but so good. I love Texas. I think he's just darling. Um, but he's a little bit of a murderer. All right, so what is it? We really do love him. It's just this concern that we have. Um, so they're struggling big time financially. They have our first grandbaby, and our daughter, they want her to stay home. Um, our son-in-law, he lived at home until he was about 27 and had never worked a full-time job. Worked part-time pretty much after they got married and kind of has a full-time job now, but just not a lot of income at all. And so, so our question is, how do we? His parents don't see any concerns with any of this. We parented very differently. They're awesome people, also, just different. But we just don't know how to handle this as in-laws. Do we step in? Do we say something? Do we stay quiet and just let them figure it out and struggle through it? How, how do we approach this?
You're so great. Like, you're literally one of the coolest people I've talked to. Um, will you do me a favor? Yes. Okay. I want you to close your eyes. Okay? And I want you to see a whiteboard full of Texas-isms. Okay? Okay. They're amazing. So great. We love them. I want you to see that whiteboard and then I want you to see it magically wiped clean. Okay? And you're staring at a stark white whiteboard. Okay? Yes. Now open your eyes and I want you to make a fist in your right hand and I want you to put it right in the center of your chest. Okay? Okay. I want you to tell me what you feel about watching you and your daughter raise this new little baby with a husband that doesn't make any money, who's a nice guy, but does not know how to work, does not know how to provide, and doesn't even have a picture for what that looks like. Does it scare you? Does it break your heart? Does it make you sad? Does it make you angry? What does it feel like?
It feels like all of that. I mean, tell me about it. I'm definitely scared for them. Dude, your voice just went down a whole octave. I love it. All right, now I'm talking Michelle. I'm not talking about the lady with the live, laugh, love thing in her kitchen. I'm talking to Michelle. All right, so, okay, tell me about it. Yes, it does scare us a lot. Not us, not us. He's not on the phone. Your husband's on the phone. Yeah, okay. It scares me. It frustrates me. Um, I do get angry about it.
Tell me about the anger. Well, I think the anger is just, she graduated, went to college, graduated with her degree, worked, and went to work full-time, was making more money than him. Um, and then is really longing to be a stay-at-home mom, and I want that for her. But he says he wants that for her also, but at the same time has lots of free time to work extra hours and, um, just chooses not to. And says he wants to get a different job, but then says he wants to stay at his current job. Just goes back and forth, and there's just no drive to just, I'm gonna go out and kill it and do whatever it takes to make sure my family is fed. And that's frustrating to me.
There you go. And I'll tell you, you have a right to be frustrated. You have a right to be heartbroken. Okay? And avoiding that creates that weird Southern family awkwardness at the kitchen table because everybody feels it, but nobody says it. And you know exactly what I'm talking about, right? Yes. You probably had that same thing with your parents. It's that, it's that weird, like, oh geez, everybody's knowing it, everybody's thinking it, everybody's feeling it, nobody's saying it. So you getting in touch with that, I think, is right. It's good.
Okay, I want a lot of stuff. Like, I want my life to look a lot of certain ways. And I always go back to behaviors as a language. And so I really don't look a lot at what people say anymore. I just look at what they do. How do they pay bills? Well, some of them, they're not. And so they're getting backed up on a lot of that. Um, and I know we have helped a little. My parents have helped a little. But we just feel right now like we need to pull back and let them correct, handle that. My good buddy, one of my best buddies out here in Nashville, Henry Cloud, a psychologist, kind of a mentor. And he says, often, if you want people, especially younger people, to change, they have to get this thing called S. There's never going to be an incentive to do anything differently because we don't have to, right?
And I, so how do we? Have they invited you in? Have they invited you into this? The, I think the hardest thing from this show and the other show that I co-host, the hardest thing is listening to people when they love a family member and that family member is doing something destructive to their life, and they haven't been invited in into that conversation. It's tricky because our daughter does. And so we hear her tears and her sadness. Why won't she talk to her husband? She has. And that's kind of where we are. Is she has just, she's the one who does the budget, she does the bills. She, so like I said, we, they were raised very differently. Hey, hold on. I, I don't care about about the ra. They're here, okay? They're, they're right now. Yes. It's just the way they view finances are very differently and the responsibilities of that. And so her sadness of knowing what needs to happen, um, breaks our hearts. She does talk to us about it respectfully, but we, he doesn't want to talk about it at all to us. Yeah, he's probably deeply ashamed of it. I think so. And he should be. He then to reach out to his in-laws to help pay his bills just because he won't work, that's embarrassing. If he was a school teacher who was driving Uber on the side and delivering pizzas on Saturday night and he got in a bind and his front tires blew out, make that phone call. I'm okay with that. But when you're just sitting at home and you, I say make that phone call to in-laws and say, hey, I just, this happened and we're in a pickle. Mhm. And you look and see a guy that's working 60 hours a week and he's doing a job that is noble, that unfortunately doesn't pay enough, like I get that. But yeah, he should be embarrassed. He's just sitting at home going, oh man, huh? And his wife's weeping in the next room, calling her mom to say, help.
But the challenge here is that's your daughter's problem to solve. And until she says, I want to stay at home, and you, your inability and lack of movement and desire to make a better life for our family is forcing me to go back to work, I need you to hear me say this, husband, your laziness and your lack of motivation and drive to build this family with me is robbing me of the one thing that I wanted, and I told you about that when we were dating. Until she can say that and speak that out into the world, he's going to be continue b-bopping around because he has no problems. Or until she says, a lack of, it's a lack of fidelity for you not providing for your family. Some people cheat with, um, another romantic partner. Some people cheat with their job. Some people cheat on a with a golf course. He's cheating with just idleness and laziness. He's not providing for his family. That's a lack of fidelity. And until he understands the, the tenuousness of his him continuing to be married, he's just going to keep b-bobbing along.
The biggest problem is you can't have that conversation with him. Your wife, I mean, your daughter has to. Okay? And I think it's fair to say, daughter, you, until you put this all on the table and then give the, the infamous, or what? Because there has to be an or what to some of these statements. Um, or maybe she's like, no, I'm never going to leave him. He's my husband till death do us part. Then she needs to say, here's what you are doing to me, husband, by you coming home and crashing and playing video games on the TV. Here's what you're doing to me. Uh, until she can do that, um, all of your side conversations with her, you slipping them $300 to pay their light bill or what? Like all those kind of things are just, they just are what they are because she's not addressing the core issue. And if you and your husband reach out to them and say, when y'all are ready, we'll help. We'll do what we can do to help. Like, we'll help you get a job. We'll put a word in for you at this place or what. I don't know how y'all want to help. Um, but, but unfortunately, until y'all are asked into that conversation, you just become overbearing helicopter parents. And we definitely don't want to be that, and we aren't that. I know you're trying so hard, but you're watching your grandbaby. Right, right. Totally get it. Totally get it.
At the end of the day, your daughter has to have this hard conversation with him. Has she been that direct with them? She's been pretty direct. I don't know that she has been that direct as far as, I mean, you know, at one point it was, you know, by the end of this month, I need you to have an additional job in the extra hours. But I don't know that there was an or what. Okay, what is the or what? That I mean, she loves him. He, of course, she does. He doesn't love her back like she loves him. Period. Because he's not providing for his family. Okay, behavior is a language. What's he telling her? I don't care what you think. I don't care what you feel. I don't care what you want. I want to watch TV. That's what he's, that's what he's telling her every day of her life. Then at some point, it becomes not about the money. It becomes about, oh, this is how little you think of me as your wife. I need to step out of this situation because I'm becoming somebody that I don't want to become. I'm becoming an angry, resentful, bitter wife because you are a husband who lacks integrity and fidelity. And I don't want to raise my kid in this environment. Mhm. And so maybe what you provide is a week or two for her to step out and come have a safe place with the little one while her husband decides if he wants to continue to be married to her. Okay?
But us, I mean, what's the other option? Not confronting him. But even my husband or I, or us together, it's not wise for us to sit down with him and just say, this has to stop. You know how your daughter, how old is your daughter? He's 22. Oh my goodness. How old is he? 30. Oh, geez. Yeah. No, I mean, I don't ever think that's in. Your daughter's got to have this conversation. But your daughter's very, very, very young. She is. And we talked about this a lot before they got married, you know? And it just, um, we kind of gave her a heads up that, you know what, you marry it, usually a lot of times that doesn't change. Marriage is not going to miraculously fix that. Um, it doesn't. But I'm a radically, radically different guy than than the man my wife married. Thank God. Oh, sure. I'm a radically different guy than the guy I was six years ago. Radically. Yes. Right. And so I'm, I thank God. I'm glad. And so marriage is amazing, but it's a, it's a platform by which you jump off of. It's not the thing that fixes you. Right, right. It's the vehicle that gets you from here to there, but it's not in it of itself magic. And in fact, it can be constricting and suffocating if you don't have two people all in. Right.
But he's 30. Yes. He married himself a woman a decade younger than him that was earning the money while he just sat around and did nothing. Right. What does he do for a living? Um, he's in ministry. Oh, good God. So I feel called to this. Yes. That's it. Exactly. Exactly. And that's so stupid. People using, using, yes, God as their as their. You're gonna get me in trouble, Michelle. I'm gonna stop talking. I get so. And here's the thing, poverty is not the thing. Working for the least of these and not making a bunch of money isn't the thing. Right, right. Um, especially when your family is not paying the bills. That's it. Yes. It's, it's a lack of fidelity and integrity. Has nothing to do with being a minister and not making a ton of money and choosing, we are going to have an A one-car old, old, old Corolla family because this is who we are and who we're going to serve. I'm all in on that. All in on that. That's not this situation. Right. This is somebody who is using this quote unquote call and this quote unquote easy job as an excuse to not go out and provide for his family. Yes. I would be enraged if I was you and your daughter went and did a very adult thing and got married and had a baby with this man. So she has linked him forever.
So until your daughter decides, I'm going to draw a line here and say, this is the life that we agreed on. This is what fidelity looks like for me. Or she has to make peace with the fact that she wanted to stay home and it's simply not going to be possible because of the type of ministry and life that they've chosen to do. Okay. Exactly. And we've told her that. That at this point, her staying home may just not be an option. Not they don't have any money out of necessity. Exactly. Right. They don't have any money. Right. Yeah. And by the way, the Apostle Paul was a tent maker and then he preached. Mhm. Right? Yes. There's biblical precedent for, go get a job and then do your ministry. Right. You don't, you both. Yeah. Geez. Yeah. I'm gonna get in trouble.
So here's the thing. Yeah, not your place to talk, but I do think you have a, your daughter's very, very young. I think she, you have a place where you can speak wisdom into her, into her life. But I want you to balance that with, don't, don't ever pit your daughter versus her husband. If, if for her to choose you or her or her husband, she's got to choose him. She chose him. Yes. If she has to choose herself over somebody who is actively not participating in a marriage, that's a different conversation. She has to choose safety and integrity and fidelity. That's a different story. Okay.
So it is okay for us to continue conversation with her because we don't ever want that. And we make sure she knows he's her first resource. You go to him first. But it is okay for her to talk to us, just, I pray, asking for wisdom or whatever. Yeah, I always think that wisdom. But it's when it becomes a gossipy, I need to, I need to tell you something bad that my husband did because here's what that does. That puts you guys in a position to always have to protect. Right. Um, this may be right, wrong, or indifferent. I, I have a relationship with my brother and my sister that we don't talk negatively about our romantic partners because I don't want to put them in a position to have to defend me when I'm just in the middle of a regular old marriage spot. Right? Because they have to go to war against, well, actually they side with my wife most of the time, right? But, but like, I don't, I don't want to, I don't want, they don't deserve that tension. If I have something negative that I need to work out with my wife, I go to her, or we go to a counselor, or we go to a couple of friend couples that we've both have in our lives that would hold us both accountable. But I don't, I don't put my family members in a, in a position where they have to choose which side they're on. That's unfair of me, right?
And a 22-year-old stuck in a house where a husband doesn't care anything about her at all, and a little baby, that can be really isolating and terrifying and lonely and scary, right? Yes. And Mom wants to come in and rescue, but she's got to get adult friends, and she has to get adult mentors, and she's got to get her own counselor because, in a weird way, he's running to his Mommy and Daddy for money, and she's running to her Mommy and Daddy for emotional support. Neither of them are acting like adults. You get what I'm saying? Yes. And so maybe the, the line going forward is this house is always a safe place. You pick up, you knock on the front door, that door is always open for you, and for that little baby, and for him. We love him. You said earlier at the beginning, call, we like the guy. He's a nice guy. Um, always welcome home. And you call day or night, I'll always answer the phone. I love you. You're my daughter. Always be here for wisdom. But until you have these hard conversations with him, um, I, I'm not comfortable talking about him anymore and his deficiencies or the things you wish he would do or whatever. I want to be your mom. I don't want to be your, I, I can't be your marriage counselor. I want to be your mom. I don't want to be your marriage mediator. That's not my job. I can't do it. I'm too, I'm too biased against you. And this new grandbaby, you, you need to go find a counselor. You need to find a couple of friends that are a little bit older than you, other women that maybe even are your age, Mom, but that will provide some third-party neutral wisdom there. Um, and if husband is truly called by God, um, to serve this church for less than a livable wage, happens all over the planet, good. He has to also be responsible for the other side of that ledger, the one that helps feed his family. And that means, I just know ministers who they work real, real, real hard so they can go do their ministry job. They don't look at their young wives, um, and young babies and say, ah, that sucks to be you, but, uh, I'm gonna watch TV. That's enough to get me fired up. Michelle, you're a good mom. Thank you for loving her. Um, but I think it's time that they get some problems that they have to solve some of these in their house, and that you begin to back up from the marriage counselor. Just tell your daughter, I'm gonna be your mom. I'm gonna be your mom.