Transcription
Hot lights fade, the curtains rise.
New stories waiting behind our eyes.
Charlotte and John with the final say,
breaking down the screens in their own way.
This is the final cut.
Okay. Hello everybody. Uh, welcome back to another of our Final Cut podcasts. Uh, and this week, um, we've got a guest all the way from Canada, from Calgary, uh, Alberta in Canada. Um, now, um, there's a Scottish connection. He, their guest tells me that his family is originally from from Dundee. And I do know that Calgary itself is, um, actually a small bay in the Isle of Mull, uh, from which, uh, the city of Calgary in Canada was named.
Anyway, um, the person that we've got on today is Michael Dari, who, um, again, to use Scottish terminology, is a man of many parts, we say in Scotland. Um, a man of many parts. He does many different things. He's an author, um, a podcast host, has done a bit of filmmaking, um, and also a bit of adventuring as well, a sort of self-professed adventurer. Um, his main, um, interests at the moment, I think, could be summed up as branding and storytelling. He's, he's built a branding agency called Make More Creative. Um, he hosts, uh, an acclaimed podcast on, um, branding and entrepreneurship and creativity, which I'll mention more of in a second. And he also performs in comedy as Drop Bear with his performing partner Jennifer Mclean, who's called Panda. So, Drop Bear and Panda.
Now, not only that, I don't know how he has time to sleep, to be honest, because not only that, he's a black belt in Japanese jiu-jitsu, uh, an advanced scuba diver, uh, a championship cart racer, uh, as well as a motorbike rider, and also, um, a proud octopus enthusiast. Would you believe? He, he calls himself an occasional octopus whisperer, hence the background for those who are watching, um, the video version of this podcast, which we've, um, carefully slided an image of a scuba diver with an octopus, um, not Michael, but somebody similar.
Uh, so anyway, um, Michael leads the RebelRebel podcast, which is an award-winning, um, podcast that's been nominated repeatedly for the Canadian Podcast Awards in Canada for Outstanding Business Series, uh, in which, um, Michael celebrates those creative rebels, the rebels, either whether in business or creativity, who dare to do different. And in fact, um, his life motto, uh, is, quoting from his website, is "Do cool and weird with cool and weird people."
Uh, so as you can tell from that, Michael is deeply rooted in storytelling. Um, he's done some work for a Loose Moose Theatre Company in, based in Calgary, uh, particularly around improv. Uh, but probably more to the point for this discussion, has also been involved with brand strategy using his trademark method of Brand Jitsu. Um, no doubt riffing on his, um, black belt in jiu-jitsu. And, um, he's recently authored a book called Brand Jitsu: How to Move Your Brand from Meh to Memorable, which, uh, he's showing right now for those watching on YouTube, published, uh, by Dundurn Press, and, um, has been released and is available on all good websites and, uh, no doubt a few bookshops as well.
So, um, I'm breathless, um, after that, because there's so much, uh, to cover. But Michael, a warm welcome to, uh, our latest Final Cut podcast.
Oh my gosh. Well, thank you both for having me. This is great. This is such a privilege.
Thank you. It's a privilege.
Well, I, as is, we we tend to do, I tend to kick off the the first question. So, so basically, my question is very simple.
It's a two-part one. How did you get started? And how would you recommend to young people today to, uh, get started in the field that, that you're working in?
Oh my gosh. Um, great question. Way to start it off easy, John.
We'll do the simple one. How did you get started first of all?
Oh my goodness. Um, it's a, it's a difficult one to answer succinctly only because I think I sort of fell into it. It, it wasn't a plan. Um, and that is just kind of how my life works in general. There, there's no real plan. I just sort of show up, I say yes to stuff, and then it moves on from there. So, um, you know, many, many years ago, I was the communications director for a company called Service Intelligence. We worked with Fortune 100 brands across North America. We were based in Calgary and Seattle. And, um, I think probably I cut my teeth there working with big brands. So, and what I learned along the way is that it's very difficult to move big brands. Like, it's, it's a Herculean effort. Uh, it has to be coordinated. It has to take time. And, um, when I, I ended up getting packaged out because our company got bought and I had some time on my hands. So, I did some work for other large brands because that's what I knew. And I decided I didn't love it, that I, I, it just, I wasn't making the impact I wanted to have. So, I spent a year teaching at one of the universities here in the communications faculty while I decided what to do. And then I said, well, you know, to heck with it, I'm just going to hang up my own shingle and I'm going to do my own thing. I'm going to help these small to medium-sized businesses show up like the big guys because I knew the playbook that the big, the big guys use. Um, so why couldn't a small business, you know, do that, that exact same thing? And I started that in 2006 and here I am today still doing it.
So, so that's the agency. Um, I think it's called Make More Creative.
Correct. Yeah. Originally it was New West Creative. Uh, and then it, it pivoted as things do over time and, uh, since, oh gosh, 2013 has been Make More Creative.
And more. Sorry. Go ahead.
So, what is it you actually your agency that does? Is it, it helps small brand or small companies to be shown online? Is that, is that correct? Or?
We help, um, any size company. Like, we still do work with large, like really large companies as well as really small companies. We help people find, shape, and share their stories with the world so everyone gets it. And that's the premise behind this book, uh, that I wrote. And that is the, I've taken everything I've learned over 25 years and distilled it into a book to be like, if you, if you can't spend time one-on-one with me, at least you'll have a book and be like, you can read it and be like, "Okay, that's what we need to do next." And it really is, um, I call it the world's cheesiest metaphor, which is the, um, iceberg. And everything that we see, people ask me to do like a logo or a website or whatever. That's all above the surface. That's the outward expression of your brand. And everybody wants that, and I get that, and we do love doing it. But it's what's below the surface that's the most important part, which is, you know, your values, your vision, your purpose, the, the brand DNA, the thing that makes you you, uniquely you. And then your personality, how you show up in the world. And then who you're serving, like the, the customer is the hero of the story, you're not. And so that, that's what the, the book is literally about, that everything below the surface. And I don't even touch really above the surface at all in it.
And, and you, you make a great play, I think, about authenticity, uh, and authenticity being key. Um, maybe unpack that and, and also actually the name Brand Jitsu, which is in a way your brand name, how you came up with that and how it relates to, to what you've written about.
I appreciate that. Um, well, okay, so let's chat about that first. The, yes, I am a black belt in Japanese jiu-jitsu. I have not practiced in quite a long time, but I'm reminded of it every day when I wake up and I limp for the first, you know, uh, for the first hour of my day. Um, Japanese jiu-jitsu, um, we taught military, police, um, security, and if you couldn't learn a technique in Japanese jiu-jitsu in three minutes or less, it would be useless to you in combat. That is the whole genesis behind it. So, it's not, it's not, it's not a game. It's not a sport. It is to interrupt, stop an attack, and prevent further attack. And that's as far as Brand Jitsu goes. This is just a really, really quick way to learn how to find, shape, and share your story. This is not, uh, that's, that's as much as I get into martial arts. It's just, it's a fast and effective way to do a thing.
Um, brand means story in, uh, in my world. And jitsu, which is, uh, art or technique in Japanese. So the idea here is that it's a, the story technique. So how do you, how can you distill your story? How do you focus your story? And then how do you share it with the world? So that's where that came from.
And, and if you think about stories, so if I bring you back this sort of filmmaking and things like that, so what first drew you, drew you to storytelling? And I mean, and if you, if you do have work in films, etc., what was it that you were so passionate about it?
Um, well, I mean, you can say so much with even, um, like, we, we do a lot of film work. Um, you can say so much with so little. You can say so much with color. You can say so much with a camera move. You can say, uh, so much with one word delivered well. Do you know what I mean? Like, that's what I love about storytelling, and that's what I love about when a brand gets it right. They say so much because there's so much subtext there to lean into. Does that make sense?
Yeah.
Um, so I don't know. I've just, I've always loved stories. I love telling stories. I like, uh, I like when people lean in and they're into the story that you're telling. Um, you know, in film, God, we've, we have done so many micro, like just really, really short, um, and most of them are, most of them are crap, if I'm honest. But we're doing it to learn and to just do stuff. And what does it mean to change the camera angle this way? Like, why use a Dutch tilt? Or why, you know, why are you pushing in or pulling out, right? Like, uh, why? Everything has a reason. Everything has a purpose when you're telling that story.
Does that answer your question?
Yeah. And, um, and to circle back to the second part of my first question about young people today. I just wondered, you know, prompted by what you've just said,
we've now, we're now in an age of AI where we can create films on on VO3, um, and young people particularly can do it. Do, do, how do you see that for young people trying to get into what you're doing today? Do, do you regard this as a great opportunity or, uh, or something, something more dangerous for creativity?
Oh my goodness. A great question. Um, not entirely sure how to unpack that, but I look at it this way. So, this phone,
like I've shot films on this iPhone,
um, good ones. And I, back in the day when I first started this adventure, you'd have a gigantic camera. You would have, uh, you know, you'd have battery packs, you know, queued up and waiting, and you'd, you know, um, recorded on actual film, not on a card. Um, so technology advances. And so, where we're at right now, where you can do some AI stuff, I mean, that's, it's just the next advancement. But how do you tell the story? And that's what matters. It's not, it's not going to tell the story for you. It might give you some beats, you know. Um, if you are, are you familiar with Save the Cat?
There. So, it, it's a really great way to learn how to tell, uh, film storytelling, like, uh, how to tell a story in film breaks out, um, you know, scripts and beats and what needs to happen here, what needs to happen there. The, um, AI can only get you so far. So, maybe you don't have to even have this anymore, right? You can just prompt a scene, but you still have to be able to tell that story. And you also have to know how to cut it. Like, I'm not sure if you do, um, editing on your own, like in Premiere or Final Cut or whatever.
Yeah.
But, yeah, frames matter. And that is the bane of my existence. Is like, I care about every single freaking frame. And I also love deleting them. Do you know what I mean? Like, it's a, there's nothing better than shaving three frames off of a, a scene where you can just cut it because you're like, we don't need any more than that. We can get to the next beat because we got out of our way.
So, so for you then, what, what is it that makes a story worth telling? Say, even, you say it's a film, it's a stage, a podcast, because, because you've been a comedian, that's a joke, or what, what kind of criteria and things do you use for?
How do you tell?
Yeah. Another great question. I, for me, anyways, it's, uh, what's real? So, uh, I think John, you mentioned earlier, authenticity. I think that's a, that's a huge part. So, telling a story that's true and not trying to make it something that it's not. Um, and I mean, so that then becomes a very broad answer. You know, what, what are you trying to tell? Um, what truth are you trying to get at? Uh, in the opening of my book, I talk about, um, this lady that I know. Her name is Jen Bane. Um, and she's a very, very talented puppeteer. She works on Fraggle Rock, if you're familiar with that.
Yeah.
So, she's an extraordinary puppeteer. Like, mind-bending what she can do with a puppet. And, uh, we're doing a show at Loose Moose called Maestro. And I'll just, I'll be real, real quick about this answer, but 14 improvisers start, only one improviser, uh, leaves and, uh, wins at the end. Uh, so as the scenes progress, they get voted off by the audience. So, there's three of us left, myself, another guy, and Jen. Myself and this other guy, we do a scene, we get, uh, the audience gives us a four out of five. So, we're like, "Yes, we're going to go and, you know, uh, we're going to the final." And I'd never won Maestro before, so I was really excited. And then Jen had to do a solo scene and she walked off stage. She asked for a couch to be brought on. She asked for a spotlight. She walked off stage. She comes back with the, this, um, puppet of a dog. And she lies down on the couch and goes to sleep. We're, and it, so our theater holds about 200 people and it was packed that night. So, she goes to sleep and the dog is on her chest also sleeping. You can sort of see it sort of heave, uh, do a deep sigh, and the audience laughs. The dog notices the audience and the audience loses their mind. They're just like, they laugh even harder. So, the dog gets really excited by this, tail starts wagging, and then the dog tries to nuzzle Jen awake because like, there's an audience. Did you know there's an audience? Right? Like, all the five minutes of this dog existing on stage without a word being said, and I'm almost in tears. Um, honestly, just like remembering it, and I get chills every time. That is what's important because if you're a dog owner or a pet owner, you know the truth of what just happened. And it wasn't, we didn't try, she didn't try to make it anything more than it is. She just let that dog exist. And we got to see the, got to see the humanity of it. We got to see her try to push the dog away so she can go back to sleep. We got to see the dog try to, you know, do dog things.
And I, I honestly think that's the, that's the magic of it. So, when you can tell a story truthfully, whatever that happens to be, that's what sticks. There were, my god, there must have been a hundred scenes that night, but that's the one I remember because that's the one that was true.
Yes. Yes. Well, as dog owners, Charlotte and I certainly can identify with that, um, sentiment. But to circle back to the, the title of your book then, so using storytelling, give us some practical examples of how a company brand can go from meh to memorable in terms of of the techniques that, that you've been discussing.
Uh, sure. So, the, if we, if we go to this idea that truth is what matters,
and that's what people will remember. That's what will make it memorable. We can be, um, uh, milk toast about stuff. We can be like meh. We can just be like, we just show up like everybody else. And that's fine for some companies. That's just how it is. Like, I, and I'm not picking on, uh, realtors, um, but people that sell houses, they typically are the exact same. You see them on the bus bench. Yeah. See them on the side of the bus. They're, they're always doing the same thing.
We can attest to that.
Okay. So, that's meh, but it's expected, right? It's, it's just kind of like the, the thrum of that industry. But if you want to be memorable, you need to, you know, maybe fight against that. Show up different. Be, be the contrast. Um, you know, when people are yelling, sometimes it's better to whisper.
Um, so knowing, um, knowing what the, what the circumstances are, uh, allows you to, uh, show up differently, to, to contrast what's currently there. And I think that that makes a huge difference. Um, I did a campaign for a funeral home and it was so successful, and it was, uh, it was basically "Life by Mary." So, it just had this picture of this lovely elderly woman carrying a surfboard, living her best life. "Life by Mary, Celebrations by Pearsons" because it was about celebration of life. Like, what, what do we leave behind? Like, what do you get to do in this life? The, you know, and how important is that? How do you, how do you want to be remembered? How do other people, how do you want other people to remember you? And so, instead of, you know, diving into the, the world of death and sorrow and sadness and all the rest of it, we just showed somebody living their best life. And then we had like, um, "Life by Lou," which was this, uh, elderly gentleman with, uh, with a grandson on his shoulder. Who's Lou? Lou could be the kid. Lou could be the elderly guy. Doesn't really matter. Like, people die, but we're not making people feel bad about it. And we're instead inspiring people to have fun, be you, have a great life. So, I, I think that's the, that's the magic of it.
Could I just ask you this question? You describe yourself as being cool and weird things, weird people. What's the weirdest collaboration you ever had? And what did it come from? This is, is brilliant. But how, how did you come up with that concept?
Well, I just, I find myself, uh, being attracted to, uh, experiences. That's all that we, that's all that we get. You can't buy an experience. I mean, I guess you probably could buy like a dive experience or whatever, but I'll use an example. Um, this summer, uh, I, I'm doing a book tour. I'm on doing a book tour on my motorcycle. And my youngest son just bought a new motorcycle and he's out on Vancouver Island and he's like, "Hey Dad, let's meet up in Port Alberni. There's a place called the Swept Away Inn." I'm like, "Okay." Like, what? Shameless plug for these guys. They're delightful. They, it's a tugboat that has been converted to a seven-suite that you can live aboard. Uh, live on this tugboat for, you know, for as long as you, until your money runs out, I guess. Um, but it's like a hotel on the water. And meeting these people, they are just the coolest and weirdest people I've ever met. And so, my son got there a day before I did and he meets a couple from Germany. And, um, and then last night he called me. He's just like, "Oh yeah, I can't remember their names, but they're in Calgary before they head back home." So, we took them out. Uh, we, we showed them Calgary. We went for dinner. We did this stuff. And, uh, you know, then I sort of flash back to our time on the tugboat talking to the owners and where they came from. He was a professional soccer player. Um, she's an incredible chef. So, they're, um, multicultural. Um, and they're just, they're living their best life. And I just, I, I find that I get attracted, I get sucked into the orbit of people like this that are just living life differently.
Yeah. And, and that obviously, I guess, relates very closely to the RebelRebel podcast that you've, that you've set up, which is to celebrate the, the those who, who dare, dare to do different. Um, which I think is what, again, another one of your, your mottos. Um, uh, so talk us through that and, and some of the, the guests that you've had and, and perhaps things that you've learned from, from talking to those guests.
Oh, I love that. Um, yeah, the RebelRebel started as an itch to scratch back in 2018, I think, probably, probably 2017. I was thinking about it. I'd heard about podcasts and I decided that I wanted to do a show that could shine a light on my friends. So, that was season one was I was just like, I want to learn how to do a podcast. I don't know how to do it. I'm just, I'm so curious about it, which also is one of the driving factors of my life, is just curiosity.
How do you do this? And so I ended up interviewing a whole bunch of friends. And throughout that, I learned how to be a podcast host. I learned what it, I learned the structure I wanted for my show. I decided that creative rebels and entrepreneurs are my people. I just wanted to understand why did you zig when other people zagged? Like, why did you go left when other people went right? I'm just, just passionately curious about that. Like, why? Um, I have not had one guest on the show that has not inspired me or has given me, uh, goosebumps. Like, they, I just, I, I get like that. Do you know what I mean? Like, just that.
Yeah. I talk to them just like, oh my god. Like, that's such a cool. What? Why did, what? Why did you do what? Um, you know, I've had some big names on the show, but it's, it, it's also not about that. It's about the smaller names, people you haven't heard of, the people that, you know, created their own thing. Like, I, I'm thinking about Tony D. Rozier. Uh, and I mean, she's a big name in some circles. She created a, the beeswax food wrap. She invented that.
Wow.
Invented that category globally.
It's like, what? So, I get to hang out and talk with her about why, like, what, what gives me the right to do that, you know? Uh.
Sorry, go ahead. So, who has been the most surprising guest or someone you thought would never appear on your show? Or?
Um, well, probably the, the one with the biggest, uh, name and recognition is probably Joe Foster, the founder of Reebok. Um, he, he kicked off season five for us. Um, if you ever watch the, he's such a genuinely nice human. Oh my god. Like, yeah, it just, you talked with him for ages and, and nothing feels pretentious about him. Also, he's just,
genuinely loves how he got there. The, talk, he'll happily talk about the struggles that he had getting into the American, uh, market and, you know, then he'll talk about, uh, Arhill Martinez, which was his guy on the west coast that had kind of helped launch this whole thing during the, uh, the aerobics boom. Just a kind, gentle human doing stuff and just pushing limits.
Like, and I can't understand. He's like, "I want to go to America because the market there is 10 times the size of the UK." He's probably won that. But he was relentless about it. It took him like a decade to to break into that market. Like, what tenacity?
It's amazing.
One, one person I would love to interview is Tom, Thomas Hilfiger, because I used to buy his clothes when I was younger. I never realized he was actually a person. It was in Sweden and we thought, we just thought it was a brand. And then I was amazed to find out it was actually a real person.
Yeah. And, and obviously this, this RebelRebel podcast has, um, I mean, I saw stats that it's been listened to in 85 countries, um, and, you know, has, um, been nominated multiple times for awards. But it's not the only podcast that you do. Um, I was quite interested. You've parlayed some of your comedy, uh, background as well. Um, to this Drop Bear and Panda Saves the World podcast. Now, for those, those outside Canada, maybe explain to us what, who is Drop Bear and who is Panda? And how are you saving the world?
Oh my god. Uh, well, so, and this has changed also. So, I, thank you for asking that question. Um, I'm Drop Bear and, uh, my girlfriend is Panda, Jennifer Mclean.
She also, shameless plug, wrote a, a book called An Ode to Myself, which is a book of poetry written by a cat for cats.
Oh, I see. Mhm.
Yeah. Um,
yeah, as you do. Uh, she's the, she's the brains, really, behind the whole operation. Um, a drop bear for those that don't know is a, basically a feral koala. If you've ever been to Australia, the idea is that this, the koala bear will drop out of the tree. And the reason why I ended up with that name is I think pretty much because I'm pretty cute and cuddly, but because of my, my jiu-jitsu training, I'm maybe a little dangerous. So, that's where that came from. And just rolled off the tongue. Drop Bear and Panda Save the World. We would do a, we did 90 episodes and we were nominated for the, uh, one of the top 10 comedy podcasts alongside Amy Schumer and Kevin Bacon, if I can name drop.
Wow.
Um, and we, I, we ended sort of early pandemic. Uh, I just ran out of energy for it. It took a lot. It was a heavy lift to produce that show. And, um, I needed to take a break from it. And we have now come back with Drop Bear and Panda Save Canada.
Ah, yeah.
That has, uh, that's now, um, showing up. I, we got the third episode that is currently, uh, in the edit process. And the idea, you know, behind Drop Bear and Panda Save the World was, we took whatever was happening in the world that day and we celebrated the people that were doing the right thing. Um, we had a, a sponsor, the Friday Sock Company, where we would send people socks that were doing good things in the world, like, just because we're just like, we just wanted more positivity in the world. So, we, we'd send,
we did, uh, sock jingles with a guy named, uh, Rob Mitchellen, who's a comedian here in Calgary, very talented musician, and he would do our sock jingles for us. And it was so stupid. It was, and again, this is just one of those, you know, we're just doing it because it's a, it's a laugh. Like, let's just have some fun.
Yeah.
And Drop Bear and Panda Save Canada is a,
you know, what's cool about Canada?
Like, especially with the current climate.
Yes. I was going to say, you know.
Yeah.
Love them.
So, sure it's worth saving?
Yeah. Yeah.
And can I just ask, how is your background in comedy? Do you think, how do you think that has shaped your approach to sort of directing and producing? Well, do, do you, you tend to sort of land on a more comedic angle or how do you, how does that affect you? I think.
Um, I think like, so, great question. That's a deep cut. Um, I, I'm, I'm not really funny. Um, I have funny experiences. Um, I tend to see the world through a slightly twisted lens. And I think that that helps me, um, you know, like, even do a campaign for another company where it was like, "Five out of five doctors say that, you know, living longer and having fun is, uh, you should, you should do that. And ask your doctor if living longer and having fun is right for you." That to me is comedy gold because it speaks to a truth that we all want to live longer and have fun. Um, with improvisation, you learn to say yes. And it's a bit of a cliche. You say yes. And,
uh, I do think that that's been maybe a driving factor in my life, is just to say yes. And what happens next? Like, I just agree with it and move the story forward. So, um, when I do, I've done standup, um, maybe I've done like 15 shows. I'm like, I'm not accomplished at all. But what I loved about that was you could tell the story at your own pace, in your own way, and you could see what works and what doesn't work. And every audience is different. So, you don't know whether, you know, the, the comedy gold that you, that you wrote just didn't hit that night because the audience was too drunk or,
Yeah.
You know what I mean? Or, or maybe you need to change up your pacing, or you need to give a beat between how you deliver this line, pause,
and then hit the next line. Like, all these things matter. So, I think that having a lab like that where you can test things out is, is really important for storytelling.
Yeah, I mean, standup is absolutely terrifying because it's just you and the mic, and if it ain't funny, if it isn't, isn't landing, it's, you know, you've got a problem. Um, I, I guess, you know, that that will also parlay into your work with, with the business world, because, you know, a CEO who has to stand up and give a speech, or myself, I mean, I used to be a university lecturer, so I gave many lectures. In a way, it's akin to standup comedy. So, um, making, you know, standing up in public and making a speech, certainly my lectures were, were comedy. Yeah. Um, but, uh, you know, what I mean, it's, it is quite an undertaking, isn't it? It's terrifying, in fact.
It is. And, uh, what, what I noticed with the, so improvisational stuff, so Loose Moose is one of the, um, one of the very first places improv comedy happened in the world. So, like Loose Moose Calgary, um, Keith Johnstone, uh, then there was the, um, IO Theater in Chicago did short form, or pardon me, long form improv. We did, we do short form improv. Um, the, the cool thing about it is, you know, Keith would say that you have about 30 seconds where you can do whatever you want on stage and the audience is with you.
Right.
Right. There. We're just waiting to see what happens next. And how do we create that circle of expectations where the people now can know where that story might go? And he calls that a platform. "Who are you? Where are you? What are you doing? Who are you with? And what's your relationship?" If you can get those five things sorted within 30 seconds or whatever, the audience will know where that story can go.
I took that whole concept to Brand Jitsu and I'm just like, you know, uh, what do you do? Why do you do it? Who do you do it for? And why do they care? If you can answer those four questions, and this is same with filmmaking, storytelling, people understand the circle of expectations. Is this for them or or not? That helps connect you to the audience. If you just get right to the point, if you have that platform where people can be like, "Oh, yeah, okay, cool. I get it." Or be like, "Ah, I get it. But no, I don't want that." That's really cool. That's, that's a great tool to have.
So, so that's great. So, it's the 30-second rule essentially.
Um, you give them, give them 30 seconds. Uh, and, uh, and hope, hope they're running with you.
Yeah. I, I have watched people on stage. Uh, there's a couple people that come to mind that have literally walked out on stage by themselves in front of an audience of 200 people and not done anything except just sit there and think for 30 seconds. And the audience is enthralled.
Yeah.
Right. Like, it's just, it's how you show up. And if you show up authentically,
the audience will be there for it. If you show up and you're trying to, you're trying to make it something that it's not, the audience will know.
Yeah. And, and obviously that d relates directly to what you were talking about earlier with Brand Jitsu and authenticity. Um, and, you know, the idea of, um, I mean, I was thinking as well, you know, that, that funeral ad, in some ways, reminded me a little bit of slow TV, as they call it. Certainly a term that's used in British television circles, which is the idea that, um, so much TV is fast and fast editing. So, people just go meh. But if you slow it down, uh, and you, you only have a few edits over, say, several minutes, the audience will pay more attention. So, I guess it's that same, same notion on stage. If you, if you have a stillness to you, um, you know, people, people are going to pay attention.
I think so. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Uh, have you ever seen the British, I'm sure you have, but the British version of Ghosts? There's an American version and a, a British version.
Yeah. Well, in fact, it was the British that created it first, actually.
Yeah. So, and this is my point, like, that's the best one.
Yeah. Because it, like, I watch the American version, I'm just like, h, like, it was kind of like the American version of The Office, like the, the British version with Ricky Gervais was freaking brilliant.
Right.
Because the pacing was right, and the, the dialogue was right. And same thing with with Ghost, I just, I find that take, um, much more interesting than the American sort of fast-food culture.
I think maybe was because maybe the characters, they resonated very much with the audience that they, they knew who they were, the politicians they would have maybe come up in British tabloids or something. I think was something that,
resonate that. I think that's why it was successful, just my theory.
Can, can I ask you a slightly different question? Yeah. How do you balance it all? You're a podcaster, filmmaker, brand strategist. How do you manage to balance your life in doing all these?
Not. [Laughter] Something.
My, my, my girlfriend will tell you that, um, I, I probably don't balance it super well. I, I tend to run as hard as I can, as fast as I can, until I hit a wall. I leave like a Wile E. Coyote shape into that wall. Um, and it's, I don't know, it's fairly, fairly regular that, you know, probably every six to eight months or so, I'll, I'll hit a wall and I'll just, I will be unable to do anything for a week or two where I'm just like, I'm spent. Um, and this is not the way to live. I'm not prescribing this for anybody, but it's just how I do it. I, I don't know any other way than I am a charge blindly into the ocean guy, not a wade slowly into the ocean guy.
Now, the mention of an ocean brings me to the most important point we need in this podcast, which is you describe yourself as an occasional octopus whisperer. Okay. But the problem is, I've looked at Cal, where Calgary is on the map, and there ain't no damn ocean, no octopi. Sea life center.
Maybe a sea life center. So, explain to us why the interest in in octopi, because that's the plural of octopus. Um, but also, how on earth do you, do you do this octopus whispering? What is it?
Oh, so many great questions. Um, so here's a weird fact. So, uh, Calgary has more scuba divers per capita than any other place in North America.
You're kidding. Really?
Yep. Check it out. True. Um, I don't know why. Don't ask me why. I, I suppose, you know, um, maybe it's the oil industry or energy industry. There's lots of people that used to have disposable income that would go places. But, um, I became interested in scuba diving. Uh, I did a dive, my first dive in St. Croix in early 2000s and I, I saw an octopus. I saw it squeeze itself into like a little pipe. I also almost died from a scorpionfish. Uh, but the dive master was there being like, "Don't pet that."
So, that was a thing. And, uh, I just decided to, I love being underwater. I wanted my, I was supposed to be a marine mammal biologist. That is what my life trajectory was going to be. I would watch the, um, oh gosh, The Undersea World of Jacques Cousteau when I was growing up. My parents would rent the film projector from the library. We'd watch that on, like, we'd have the screen do the thing. And the aqualung was like fascinating to me. And I, I couldn't imagine that you could actually go underwater and be in this whole different world. And it took me a long time to get there. When I did, I couldn't let it go. And it just so happens that the west coast of Canada, which is just a stone's throw from where I'm at. It's not very far. I did it in 11 hours on a motorcycle on Sunday. I'm still recovering.
Um, but it is some of the best diving in the world. And the giant Pacific octopus, and if you, um, just appreciate this for a second, they have essentially nine brains. So, the one in their head, each arm has its own brain called distributive intelligence. And they are able to recombine their RNA at will based on their environment that they're in. Um, they are creative problem solvers. They are curious. Oh my god. Uh, and, uh, they are just, I don't know, the most extraordinary being on earth. So, I have had occasion where I've been scuba diving and I get to hang out with these creatures because you can always find them because there's like a, there's a pile of crab shells
right by wherever they live. Like, it's just, it's kind of like their, um, their compost.
So, you always know they're.
Yeah. And so, you know, I've teased some out. Um, you know, I've hung out with them. I have, I've gotten to, you know, see them in their environment and appreciate them in their environment. And I just, I don't know. I'm fascinated by them. Um.
They're so alien, aren't they? I mean, um, there's even some wacko theories that they are actually aliens, but, uh, but, you know, they, they are completely alien to what we are. And yet, as you say, extremely intelligent creatures.
Oh, yeah.
As you say, a redistributed intelligence. Um.
Pretty smart.
Yeah. Yeah. This arm has its own brain doing its thing. This arm has its own brain doing that thing. Then the other brain is like doing another thing. They're crafty. There's, uh, pardon me. There's some really great stories about octopuses in captivity who just get into trouble, like they break out. Uh, they are,
um, you know, they'll end up going to, uh, the next tank over that has the tasty fish and they will devour those tasty fish and then go back to their own tank so that when the people come in to check in on them in the morning, the octopus is just sitting there doing their thing, but that tank is empty across the way and they don't know how that happened.
Can, can I just ask you though, how did you move from being a marine biologist to, to telling stories to brands? To?
I don't, I don't know. I, I, I, I think that, um, yeah, I, I desperately, I thought marine mammal biologist was my thing. Um, we moved from, I grew up just outside of Toronto in Canada. We moved to Calgary when I was 10 and that changed things for sure. That's where I got introduced to Loose Moose Theater. My parents took me to Loose Moose when I was 10 years old. Probably not the right age to learn improvisational comedy, if I'm honest. Um, so I, I think just things changed and shifted. And I, I would say probably like learning improv comedy at such a formidable age, certainly making up stories as you go, saying yes and what happens next has been a huge part of my life. Uh, every decision I've made tends to be, yeah, what? Like, let's try it. Why not? What's the worst that could happen? Knock on wood.
Well, well, listen, Michael, it's been a real pleasure talking to you and, um, you know, uh, that idea of many brains and, and, um, several tentacles, I think, has translated itself into into your life for sure. Um, so audiences can find, um, Michael's book online and also check out his website, MichaelDari.com.
However, first, we need to ask our final question.
Exactly. Well, I was just coming to that. But yeah, I was just going to say, over to you that we always ask this, the final question.
Oh, yeah. Okay.
So, okay. So, what would your advice be to your 21-year-old self, your young, younger Michael, or what would?
There's so many things I would tell myself. Um, here's, uh, I was a dad at 22, just,
so you know.
Uh, and so if I, if I went back a year and I could see,
trajectory.
Yeah. Trajectory and stuff like that, I, I think my advice would be, believe in yourself. You're not going to, but you just need to. So, if that makes any sense whatsoever, there's this whole idea of imposter syndrome that we hear about so much. There's this, um, "Should I? Am I allowed to? What if?" Uh, and I, I really do think that that advice, I think I've taken it, um, but I think I forget it time to time, right? Just, you know, believe in yourself. You got this.
Step forward. Uh, Churchill once said, "When going through hell, keep going."
Yeah. Back to you on.
Well, only just to say, um, thanks very much, Michael. I mean, it's been truly an authentic, um, conversation, um, chiming in with what, what you say is the most memorable brand. So, thanks ever so much. And, and as I say, um, Michael's book, uh, is available from Dundurn Press, uh, published this year. There it is for those watching on video. And you can check out his website as well, MichaelDari.com. Thanks very much.
Thank you.
And there's "Life by Mary."
Ah, that's "Life by Mary." Cool. Yeah. Thank you so much, guys. This has been lovely, and you are such great hosts. I appreciate you.