Transcription
It's a one, is it's a moral test that we all face. Which is, Israel is on the front lines of the enemy of humanity that seeks not only to destroy Israel but western civilization and replace it with a new Islamic World Order. That's really what we are facing.
[Music]
Today, hi Phil Hotson Peller here with my new friend Greg Denham, and I'm excited to talk to you about all things God, but especially related to Israel. And I know you've had some really unique moments, uh, connected to Israel and a great experience and, uh, a book that you've written. So I want to talk about all things Greg Denham and Israel. How's that?
Today, oh, thank you so much, Pastor Phil. It's a great honor to be with you, and I, I can't wait. This is a big subject, very, very important subject. That subject of Israel, we were talking about a little earlier, but I would say it's a test of our time. I mean, if Christians don't pass the test with regard to Israel, how do we expect the world to? And really looking forward to diving into it.
Well, you know, we, we moved out here to California from the East Coast. So a lot of Jewish people in New York, right? That's right. And I made it a practice, every time I saw someone or found out someone was Jewish, I would go up and bless them in the with the Abrahamic blessing. And I can't tell you how many rabbis were shocked when I went up to them, said, "Hey, I just want to talk to you." And they would look shocked or fearful. And I would say, "I just want to bless you in the name of the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob." So good. You know, and, and to bless those who bless you, curse those who curse you. So I just want to bless you in the name of, of, of our God.
That is so, so good. I know, I just want to interject really quick. I mean, Pastor Phil, that I did, I didn't know that. And, uh, but that is such a blessing. And needless to say, I mean, there's an unfolding plan in and through Israel. The Messiah of Israel. You're mentioning, you know, God will bless those who bless Israel. God will curse those who curse Israel. That's exactly true because there is an unfolding plan that cannot be stopped. And the reality is, is followers of Jesus, non-Jewish followers of Jesus, I mean, our story is in this unfolding plan. If we lose our story, we lose our identity. And this was something that the Apostle Paul was very concerned about. And he articulates in Romans chapter 11. We'll talk about this a little bit. But, um, I just have to say that just blesses me. You know, thank you for doing that. And boy, uh, Pastor Phil, as you well know, our Jewish friends feel extraordinarily alone at this particular time. I, I mean, have you ever seen the rise of anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism that were, you know, obviously it took place during the Holocaust, but, uh, the volume has been turned up so radically. And of course, the new, new anti-Semitism is anti-Zionism, which is the, the basically the refusal of the recognition of the ancestors of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the land of Israel, which is just a flat-out falsehood. And we, we want to build this out because it's critical. Our generation understands that there's a big lie being floated out there that then makes our Jewish friends in Israel, oh, they're oppressors in Arab land, which then, you know, I mean, this is just demonic and insane, would justify the response to murder Jews and to rape Jews. And in fact, we were talking about earlier, Pastor Phil, but, you know, I was in Kfar Aza, which is a, uh, kibbutz just about a half mile from, um, Gaza. And the, the ambassador that was, was with us a day from Israel was showing us pictures that are not seen by the public of the, the terrible massacre. And I, I won't even begin to try to describe it. To be, it is such an alternate reality. And it is just flat out like crazy and demonic. But, um, look, we, as I said, this is such an important subject because I would say it really is the test of our time.
Before we go, if I can, you know, I can quickly say, like, it's a one, is it's a moral test that we all face. Which is, Israel is on the front lines of the enemy of humanity that seeks not only to destroy Israel but western civilization and replace it with a new Islamic World Order. That's really what we are facing today.
Right. You know, I was, I, I went to school at Oxford, and I had a professor that was head of the biological warfare department. And he was telling me some of the things that were part of that. And I said, "How do you sleep at night?" And he said, "It's simple, my boy. I believe in a sovereign God." Yeah. That's right. And I think, just want to bring it back to, um, we have a responsibility. Yeah. And but God ultimately has a plan. And you've, you said that. And I, I like the idea, a test of our time. Can you drill down in that a little bit? What, what does that mean? And then what's a practical application, you know, for anyone listening to this to say, "Oh, I could do this or I could do that?"
Well, I, I love that. That there is a go, there is a plan. There's a sovereign plan. Nothing is going to stop this unfolding plan in and through Israel and the Messiah of Israel, who is the Savior of the world. And that sequencing is actually important, kind of like a DNA sequencing, but in terms of theology and doctrine. And, uh, everything is moving towards a kingdom. Jesus is returning, not to New York, or not to San Diego. He's, he's returning to Jerusalem. And in fact, uh, before the world sees him, Pastor Phil, as you all know, uh, a Jewish Jerusalem will turn to him. "Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord." Jesus said, "You're not going to see me until you say, 'Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.'" And I think with regard to, look, you know, God's plan is unstoppable, and he keeps his covenants and promises. We can talk about it, but, you know, one of the things, our responsibility is, is one, is to have moral clarity at this particular time. And, uh, the courage to back it up. To be a Churchill of our time, not a Chamberlain, trying to negotiate with evil. You know, we were talking about earlier, we have our dear friend, um, Eric Metaxas, who wrote like the classic on Bonhoeffer. But, you know, our brother Dietrich, you know, God bless him. I mean, he saw his generation through the lens of scripture, was able to detect, uh, clearly the evil of the Antichrist of his day, Hitler, who was going after Jews, right? Going after Jews. And ultimately, I mean, we need to understand there's a spiritual battle here. The devil's not behind every bush that moves, but there is no doubt an evil play here. Because if you destroy Israel, uh, which is impossible, by the way, but, but if, but if that were to take place, it would undermine God's unfolding plan. Why? Because Jesus is returning to establish his kingdom in Jerusalem. Israel as a nation will live out her full potential during the reign of Jesus. And in somehow, some way, kind of be, as I would say, kind of a superpower during the kingdom that materializes on planet Earth. But to your question about our responsibility, moral clarity, boy, we need moral clarity. And, um, and Christians need to lead the way of this. So therefore, the reality of Israel does present a test of, of, that's a moral test. We need to say, look, these Islamic Nazis, needless to say, evil, they're really, it's, they're demoniacs as far as I'm concerned. Number two, we need to stand with fact-based truth with regard to the historicity of Jews in the land of Israel. Um, because, you know, I mean, like, where did, where did Jesus walk? I mean, he walked in the land of Israel. It's, uh, you know, Pastor Phil, I was, if I could, as quickly say, I was, like, you know, conversing with some Arabs at San Marcos University. It's near where we pastor. And they had, they had their face covered and things. And essentially, they were calling for the destruction of Israel. Israel is oppressing, uh, you know, the Palestinians. And they, basically, and they, I, you know, as far as I'm concerned, sincerely believe this, which is, there's no Jewish historicity to the land of Israel. It's all a concoction. And I said to him, I said, "Have you ever seen Titus's Arch in Rome where you have, you know, Titus and the Roman legions coming back to Rome carrying the menorah, right, in the temple?" And he just, this kid just like was like a, you know, a deer in the headlights. Um, I mean, obviously, I mean, you've got 4,000 years of Jewish history in the land. So sorry for being so long-winded, but let me say, moral clarity, moral clarity, fact-based clarity. Let's be honest with the with history and not, you know, create an alternate reality and live in delusion. But look, there's a theological, there's a theological test as well. And, and I would say we need, we need to stand with Israel for the moral reason, for the historic reason, only democracy in the Middle East. But also, Pastor Phil, to be frank with you, Romans 1:16-17, just like you blessed those Jewish friends in New York, good job. We are called to bring the gospel of Jesus Christ not only to the, not only to the nations, but to our Jewish friends as well. It's written in the present tense when Paul said, "The gospel is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and the Gentile." Written in the present tense. So if, if you know, the gospel is still the power of God to salvation, which it is, then there is a priority that that believers need to step up to bring the gospel to our Jewish friends. It's not a preferential thing, it's a priority reality.
And, you know, what's really interesting is some of the opposition actually comes from Christians. Yeah. That's right. Um, who practice something called replacement theology. Yeah. And, you know, I asked him one day, I said, "Well, tell me, they were defending the Palestinians." I said, "Well, name a Palestinian king from history. Right? Can you show me any Palestinian currency? Right? How about documents from antiquity? Right? There are none." Right? What does that tell you? They're not a people. And if history, if I remember my history right, actually it was Titus who slurred the name Philistine and created the word Palestine. Yeah. And so it really goes back to a mockery, not to a people. Yeah. Because they're Arabs. Yeah. You know, and Arabs have a rich history and it's easy to trace that, but not Palestinians. So it's kind of fascinating.
On a practical side, let's look at it from, what can I do? What, what is a listener do? I think first thing I would say is, uh, shift your, your mental attitude and study the history, as you've well said. Yeah. I think secondly is really pray. And then when you meet someone who's Jewish, spend some time and let them know that you know the history of their people. Because they probably don't. Most American Jews do not know it. I'm not even sure they care when the big picture comes down to it. And so when you begin to kind of dive into that a little bit, it's pretty powerful. Um, we've got a lot of Jewish friends. Um, in fact, one Jewish friend that we have, that, you know, he's an orthodontist, has like nine different offices, very, very successful. And he said, "You know, would you ever consider being a rabbi because you know more about Judaism than our rabbi does?" And I said, "Well, that's," and he was a conservative Jew, you know, so he wasn't Orthodox, but, um, so I think informing and helping Jewish people to not feel threatened. When they first met me, we were next-door neighbors, and they were threatened because my name is Hotson P. and they thought it was German. And I reassured him it was Dutch. So they felt much better about it. But we're still friends to this day. I got some Dutch blood there. So it goes back. And I think build bridges. Um, and, and you're going to be a blessing in the process.
Anything else a person could do? What else could someone do?
Well, listen, I mean, what you're saying is exactly what Paul encouraged us to do. Romans 11:11. We are to live out our faith and provoke our Jewish friends to jealousy. We worship the Lord God of Israel. Of course, we know their history. I mean, our history is so much a part of our story. We lose our story, we lose our identity. Kind of like in America, right? I mean, you know, what is the American story? It's the Declaration of Independence, it's the Constitution, it's the Emancipation Proclamation. We lose that story, we lose our identity. We replace it with, you know, the French Revolution instead of the American Revolution. But I have to say, you know, we were talking about this a little earlier, I keep referring to that, but, um, look, Pastor Phil, think of communion for a moment. I mean, Jesus said, "Do this in remembrance of me." You know what is the "this"? As far as I'm concerned, it's kind of the elephant in the room. What is the "this"? Well, I mean, in the most immediate context, it is a supper commemorating the historical deliverance of the children of Israel out of Egypt. And Jesus says, "Now, do this in remembrance of me." He's identifying himself as the chief figure now in God's unfolding plan moving forward, the central figure of God's unfolding plan moving forward. Um, but he asked the, the apostles to remember his broken body and the blood that would be shed that inaugurates the New Covenant promised to Israel. I know there's a lot of, lot going on here, but if you just track with me for, I know you can track with me, but if our listeners can track, the new, the New Covenant is what, um, I mean, it's actually multifaceted. It's forgiveness of sins, it's the work of the Spirit transforming an individual from inside out, it's the guarantee of the preservation of Israel, the glory of God on planet Earth, and the kingdom being established on the earth. It really is fivefold. So my point is, is that I think one of the things, Pastor Phil, we could do, and I would just like to encourage all the pastors out there and our friends, remember when we receive communion, we, we need to remember that this New Covenant that Jesus is guaranteeing by his own blood was promised to Israel, for which the world is invited into. That kind of gets back to, like, man, don't lose the story because you lose your story, you lose your identity. And I, I believe, Pastor Phil, and, you know, whether, uh, I'll see it, I don't know, but I, I like to think my, my sons and my daughters, my grandchildren will see it more and more. That if the church course corrects, in other words, places communion back in its context, that Jesus, I'm convinced, intended for us, okay, remembering in a specific context, it will bring a course correction. It will actually, it will actually bust replacement theology, which is the idea you were mentioning earlier of the, of the church replacing Israel in God's unfolding plan, which is just garbage theology. Because Jesus said, "I'm not going to eat the bread nor drink the cup till the kingdom and Passover will be celebrated in the kingdom." But this time in its fulfillment. Or let me just say, communion, you know, well, be, you know, but we really reduce, as far as I'm concerned, the meaning of communion down. And I'm not suggesting, Phil, like, you know, um, every time we receive communion, we have to have a Passover Seder. I'm not at all. I mean, the meaning of communion, the, the broken body, the broken bread, and, and the body, um, of Jesus, and the cup, and, and what it means, is really what the most important thing is. In other words, bring out the meaning of it, which is going to be found in its immediate context, in the broader context of, of God's unfolding plan. So, I mean, to the question of what we can be doing, I, I just want to encourage all of our listeners, man, the next time, you know, you participate in communion, might remember it goes back to the story in Exodus. MH. And then the cup, the New Covenant of my blood, Jeremiah 31, Jeremiah 33, guarantee of the preservation of Israel, glory of God on planet Earth, kingdom materializing. And I think that that would be helpful. Like, well, we're, we can't, we can't forget our, the, where we came from, and then our responsibility to our Jewish friends and our generation. I don't know if you know Lou Engel. If you know that name? Yes, I do. So Lou, um, really felt like God spoke to him last year and said, "The next revival will be a communion revival." And then he's layered on that now also the Bible. So getting back to the Bible. But he's really focused in on this. Uh, and I think the sin that will be coming, um, here this year, um, is going to be centered around communion. So for your interest.
Wow, wow. That's fantastic. Yeah. Gosh, Pastor, you know what? I really, I really believe that person, whatever, and whatever Lou says, I believe because he says with so, so loud and so much conviction.
Well, and let me tell you, like, you know, look, I don't know if we, a lot of people don't realize this. I mean, not to apply some Gnostic thing or secret knowledge here, here, here's just a fact, reality with regard to history. Constantine, who, you know, made Christianity state-supported religion of the Roman Empire, he outlawed, as you all know, the celebration of the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus in the context in which it took place. He outlawed the churches, uh, by the way, he did not invite any Jewish bishop, bishop, to the Council of Nicaea. I mean, the Council of Nicaea produced a lot of good stuff, but one of the things it didn't produce well was, man, it it planted seeds. Getting back to replacement theology, planted seeds, a major, um, replacement theology. And I would say, I believe this with all my heart, okay? Planted seeds that ended up coming to fruition even into the Holocaust. I mean, that's a whole other subject we could kind of get into, maybe.
Well, Constantine, to the day of his death, declared himself to be the head of the Babylonian mystery religion too. You know, I didn't know that, but it makes sense. I mean, so look, the, the thing is, is that that's why we have, you know, our Jewish friends celebrating Passover, Nissan 14, the biblical calendar. A lot of times, you know, us evangelicals or the, you know, Christians, um, are celebrating, you know, the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus, not based upon a, a lunar calendar, but based upon a solar calendar. We're off. But I mean, if, but look, that that set the church in a course, I'm convinced, never intended by Jesus. I think it's one of the reasons I, you know, I wrote the book that, you know, that I gave you, which was really like, "Hey, let's put communion back in its, say, let's kick Constantine in the teeth here," because he initiated, spearheaded a corruption that I'm convinced was an offense to our precious Lord himself. And so if we just think context, context, context, we, we're going to do a lot better and put the church in a course God intended, I'm convinced of it.
Yeah, yeah. History is a great revealer of information. That's really helpful. And I think the, the less people understand history. So I know it's a big part of me. It was one of my majors in college. And so history is a good thing. So when you study Constantine, what he did, everybody kind of wants to make him the hero. But really, it was a failing empire of Rome. And, you know, with this sign, he went out and just conquered, which eventually became the groundwork for the Holy Roman Empire, where you merge state and religion. And now, now you've got Charlemagne, who now has an army to go out and, if you don't like this whole idea of Christianity, he'll enforce that for you. And that long history of it, you know, and so a lot of, you know, a lot of my Catholic friends, they're confused. I think, "How do you end up with some of this stuff?" You know, like, like, how do you end up with communion beads? You know, right? How do you do that? I mean, not communion beads, but but prayer beads. Yeah. And, uh, they go, "I don't know." And I said, "Well, all those beads were represented one of the gods of Babylon." And then they hung a cross on it. Oh, my. Because he became one of the gods of Babylon. Yeah. Yeah. And I think if, if that's a history thing, and, and I've actually talked, sat down and talked to priests about this, and they go, "You know, I didn't know that, but it makes complete sense." Yeah. And I think that that, and I'm not trying to pick on our Roman Catholics, because there are Roman Catholics that are, I believe, truly born again. And then there are those who are not. But they found Jesus beyond the church. They found it in the gospel of Jesus Christ. But one thing I think that I love what you said, you know, I love that scripture where it says that that Jesus, the Lamb of God slain before the foundation of the world. And I always say that before God, before we had a problem, God had a provision. It's a biblical principle. That's great. So whatever problems, you know, if you're listening today and you've got a problem, I just want you to know that God has a provision. That's right. And it's always going to go back to the Lamb of God slain before the foundation of the world. I love that. I love that.
Tell me about the book. Tell me about the book. I want to know more about the book and how we can get the book.
Oh, golly. I mean, thank you so much. But, but can I say one more thing in relation to what you just said? That was just fantastic. And I'm not sure about our time, so forgive me. I don't. But no, what what you said is so, so good. So thank you very much. Pastor Phil just nailed it. And, you know, I was thinking when I was driving here, gosh, if you read the Bible, like we were reading Hebrew, Phil, like from right to left. So if you started in the book of Revelation, because we're talking about Israel, right? I mean, Revelation 21, I mean, the New Jerusalem, you know, the 12 gates, named after the 12 tribes of Israel, the foundation named after the 12 apostles. I mean, you cannot separate the person and work of Jesus from the reality of Israel until you were referring to earlier, from eternity past to eternity future. And what Constantine did, man, he just flat out, I mean, you know, flat out, I mean, uprooted the church from its roots. I mean, and, and he took the new to celebration, the New Covenant, out of its foundation, out of its root there in God's unfolding plan in and through Israel, kind of like, you know, again, promised to Israel, the New Covenant for which the world is invited into. By the way, I just want to be clear, there's no salvation outside the Messiah of Israel. When, when Paul says, "All Israel will be saved," it will be because they turn to the one whom they pierced. And there's, there's national repentance. But, Pastor Phil, I just think we have a responsibility, you know, um, in our generation, again, bring the go, goel to the Jew and also to the Gentile, that we can play a role planting seeds.
So is that what your book is? Is that what your book's about?
Well, thank you for that for, uh, diving. Well, I mean, thank you for asking about it. And, you know, give us a title, by the way. Yeah. That's right. Rediscovering the Original Jesus Movement. You know, we're not talking about like late '60s, early '70s or something, but going all the way back to the ground floor of the Jesus movement there in Jerusalem. But I'm a firm believer, the way way forward is the way back. You know, growth is linear, you know, A to B, but sometimes it's a loop, and you got to go back to A to get to C. So it's a rediscovery. And so the book is, is simply about, looking at essentially the first couple chapters in the book of Acts to see, like, the ground floor, the foundation of the Jesus movement or Jesus Revolution, however, however you'd like to say it, beginning with communion, "Do this in remembrance of me." And then, for example, Pentecost. You know, a lot of times we think spiritual gifts, but, you know, whether you're Pentecostal or not, believe me, I believe in spiritual gifts. There's no doubt about it. But, you know, Shavuot or Pentecost was one of the holy days that the Lord required all male Jews to present themselves. In tradition, it is, uh, when God gave the law to Israel, Mount Sinai, fire, smoke, you know, and then 1300 years later, its fulfillment, 120 followers of Jesus, Messianic Jews, fire on top of their heads, tongues of fire, and, you know, now being able to communicate to our world audience through the gift of tongues and things, the gospel being launched. So anyways, a bunch of other things. But, yeah, so it's basically, look, okay, let's just relook at the gospel, you know, at its ground level. What can, you know, rediscover, what can we relearn to perhaps bring a course correction to our lives? So that's what it's about.
Yeah, well, and I liked it because it wasn't real thick. Now, guys, now guys, if you're listening, you understand this. If the book is too thick, you're too busy. Right? Yeah. And so it looks like it's maybe what, 100, 150 pages? Something like that.
That's exactly right. And I love that because I feel like I can sit down, I read this, I got time, I got to roll through it. Um, I know I just got a, a, a book came out, uh, last year, late last year, and everybody's, "Is this on tape? Can I, can I listen to this?" Go, "Seriously, sit down and read it." But I guess I'm going to have to be forced into having it on tape as well. Good job.
Well, good job. You know, um, but I, I think it's, uh, and I always say that in jest because it really is, um, sometimes the, the value of the book, uh, is not based on the, on the number of pages. Yeah. And, and I think that the context of what you've said is really powerful. And it does, the idea of going back, I would say, like, the, the point of return is the point of departure. That's right. So wherever the church departed from, you have to go back. Exactly. You know, and our family history, uh, dates back to 14th century France. That's about as far back as we got. They were part of the Bogomils, they were persecuted greatly by the church, the Roman Catholic Church, and they fled to Holland. So we were part of what's called the, you know, the Huguenots, the French Huguenots, and then they settled in Holland. And then out of Leiden, and then one of my relatives, William Brewster, who you probably know, on the Mayflower, wow, came to America. So this, this pursuit of God, this pursuit of freedom, this, this turning back to the original intent of God has been a part of our family history for now 600 years that I know of. Good job.
I love that. And I think everybody has a history. And so whether your history is, you know, um, the family, you're the first one in your family to become a believer, or you've got a long history of grandmas that were praying you into the kingdom, right? But, but value that. And then layer it with not only the knowledge of the word of God, but how did we get here? Yeah. That's right. You know, you cannot separate, um, Judaism and Christianity. They are, you know, they are friends for life, so to speak. That's right. And, and I think, uh, so much of, I, I do a lot of Bible studies for men, and I say, "Unless you understand the Old Testament, you're really going to be limping in the New Testament." That's right. Because he'll refer to something and you'll go like, "Oh, that's cool." But you don't even know what cool is. That's right. It just says, "That sounds neat." You know, that's right. But I think you go back. And so, like, one of the, we actually started this church, this is the craziest idea, I don't recommend it, but I started this church doing a series through the book of Exodus. Wow. Right? Excellent. Yeah. I, I guess I look back and I go, "Who does that?" And, but it worked. Job, it really actually worked. That's right. That's right. You know, yeah. And then the, the first Bible study we did here with the, with the men that I have on Zoom, um, is in the book of Genesis. Took us about a year. Wow. Right? So you lay those foundations now. And I say, like, the first 12 chapters of Genesis, like, every major doctrine is revealed in the first 12 chapters. Yep. That's right. And people go, "What?" I go, "Yeah, what? What doctrine would you not find in there?" And so it's really interesting to do that. So foundational Old Testament.
Know your book. Uh, if I get the book you gave me a copy, thank you. If I read this book, what's the central thing I'm going to get out of that? Is it going to be the communion and the centerpiece for for what we're doing? What would you say central theme?
Thank you so much. I, I would say the central theme is, is that it is absolutely essential, if I could just say once again, that growth is not just linear, it is actually kind of like a loop. It is critical that we go back to the ground floor, rediscover, um, the, the original Jesus movement. And so this, this book is going to deal with key passages in the book of Acts and kind of relooking at them in the context in which these events unfolded. It, it will give you a really important perspective to such a time as this.
That's great. That's great. So where do they get the book?
Thank you so much. Well, thank you for asking. But guess what? It's not on, it's going to be on Amazon, but it's not on Amazon. So I mean, if they, if, thank you for for bringing this open. If they, if they wanted to contact our church, Rise Church, I'll send them a copy.
Okay. So give that URL. What is the, what is the riseanmarcos.com? Say it one more time, slower.
Yes, sir. Riseanmarcos.com.
Okay. Yeah. And so if you go there, you can at least find the, the pathway to get the book.
That's exactly right. Know more about your church. If they're ever in San Marcos, that's San Diego for those of you or living outside of California, you don't know where that is. That's right. If you're ever in San Diego, then you can go by, meet the Pastor Greg. Would love to have you. Make you feel right at home, I'm sure. And, uh, and shake his hand, pray for him in the process.
Do you live stream your service?
Absolutely.
All right. So they, if you want to get a little tester before you get in there and get stuck, that's what I always tell people. Try it out. Watch, see what you like, see if you like it, see if it fits. If you live in the San Diego area, you know, this is one of many great churches. And it's so good to have you with us today. God bless you.
Thank you so much. God bless you.
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