Ex-Master of Divination Shares the Truth about Christian Occultism

Christianity and witchcraft are two things that are usually seen as being completely contradictory to one another. However, there are people who disagree with that notion and call themselves Christian mystics. In other words, Christians who practice witchcraft. The guest I spoke to today was one of them. Not only was he a pastor's kid, but he also became the head of an international witchcraft covenant. The things that he has experienced sound straight out of a fantasy novel, but they're real. And he's here to expose the truth about Christian mysticism.

Hello and welcome back to the Almost False podcast where I interview regular people with incredible stories. I had the privilege to talk to someone today who's delve extremely deep into both mysticism and Christianity. He's known online as Brother Matthew and has one of the most interesting stories I've come across. But before we get into it, I need to warn you. If you're watching the video, you'll see some weird things happening in the background. It's not your eyes and it's not AI. His camera had an autofocus issue and when I fixed it, it introduced some warping. So, sorry about this, but it was the best that I could do.

Now, let's get to brother Matthew. And to start off, I'll let him explain how his interest in the supernatural and his upbringing in Christianity eventually melded into Christian mysticism.

Manifestation for personal need is what I was interested in because of still of my upbringing that that my dad's a pastor and and all this all this and growing up in the Christian world is there is that level of influence that okay if I have this as I started thinking, you know, in the Bible you read about all the miracle signs wonders and the the the the prophets and all the stuff that going on. Well, maybe this is what modern Christianity lost is one of the thoughts that came into my head by these these beasts and and you know, because Christianity is for me at the time now, you know, mid to late teens, I'm church is boring. You you go to church, you sing the hymns, you say the prayers, you do do the thing, you do the study, but there's nothing. But you're reading the Bible, there's supposed to be power. But so much of modern Christianity, it's just churchianity. It's just it's dry. It's boring. But but Apostle Paul says, "I come to you not in word only, but also in power." And so I I started taking everything that I was learning and bringing it into this and saying, "Okay, maybe is there a way to meld Christianity with this that I have learned?" And that's it started to develop into that Christian occultism aspect. Um, and and of course, I still know that the vast majority of people that claim to be Christian would oppose this, hate this. So I started just kept keeping it to myself because I still had a lot to learn. I still wanted to see, okay, that there was a I did was dreaming of a goal of a point where I could now be public with all that kind of stuff. But uh is until until then I'm just going to keep it to myself as I want to see for myself because in all of this as well, I wanted to avoid a level of deniability. Now, what I mean like because if a person seeks to use substances or whatever um intoxications and substances that that there's a level of deniability that no, it didn't really happen. That was all in your your mind because you were intoxicated, right? I wanted to see a full uh clearheadedness that these things are real, that what they're saying is because there are some claims that people say, but you look at their practices. They were higher than a kite. You know, there it's it was all in their head. You can deny that. I want to see what works, what doesn't, what's real, what isn't. How can you tie it in? And I wanted to develop my own path.

So, what are the kinds of things that you would do as a quote-unquote Christian occultist?

Well, there wasn't much Christian in it. There's the title, but there wasn't much Christian. Um, because I was very warped in my reasoning at the time, but uh, reading minds was one. Yes, it's real. Uh, I could control other people's minds. Um, I could make objects move, inanimate objects move. Uh, I started seeing some ties in of divination. I could ask questions and my hand would twitch in a certain way for yes or a certain way for no. And I convinced myself because in the Bible you see, you know, there's uh the urim and the thummim, the stones that would light up and you know, so you see things, okay, well, this is just like that, right? You know, there's try to convince myself, you know, that this is just this is the ancient power that has been forgotten and so that's how it started kind of melding then that way.

You talked about angel guides. When I heard from you before, you talked about something called angelic conjuring. Do you have a few examples or a few experiences that you've had at that point in your life where these spirits that you would call angels would show up?

Oh yeah, this is later on when I was really getting heavy into it. Um, I I at this point I had already become high up in different groups and uh practicing groups and clans uh or in this kind of stuff. Seers for God is one of the names of it uh is what we called ourselves. Um, but yeah, I I at this same time was really heavy into studying of wizardry. Now, there's massive difference between witchcraft, wizardry, sorcery and all that. Those are denominations and witchcraft is a denomination. Wizardry is a denomination. Sorcery is a denomination and they have their own thing, but there are practices that can cross. They can kind of melt your own variant. Uh, wizardry is is uh seeking of knowledge through supernatural means. Witchcraft is servantry of spirits. Sorcery is substance use for spiritual religious reasons, magical reasons. Uh, so wizardry was the big thing. Is I wanted to know how everything worked. Uh, that that was the big driving force. I wanted to know how things worked. And so I would became a living library of occultism of all different kinds of all different sects around the world, all different kinds of things and how things worked. And uh and so my job within uh the groups was to write magic rituals. Okay, we we so they would start with, okay, this is what we want to be done. How can we get to that point? My job was to figure out how to get to that point. So, I would develop rituals. I wrote rituals. I wrote spells. And this is I I figured how things worked. How to bring a an angel guard, an angel guide or whatever to to help you with whatever. And yeah, it worked because they manifest. They literally manifest. The the end of the whole ritual was to hold your hands in a certain way and and a white wisp would just appear between your hands, moving around between your hands, and then you'd speak the spell of what you want, and it would just it would just go off and it would fulfill what you want. 100% real. Um, many eyewitnesses to this is very real because occultism is real.

You talked about this group called Seers for God. How did that how did that start? How and how big was it and what was the purpose or or what were you doing in that group?

I was the founder um and uh got in contact of other guys that were like me who still believed in God, quotation marks, uh, and but wanted to use these things to help people. Our whole driving goal was to help people. We wouldn't ask for money or any of these kinds of things. We wanted to use our powers, all the stuff we've learned to help people and different things. That was the intention. Um, so and just over time, we just more and more people started coming in, mystics and practitioners, Christian witches, Christian sorcerers, Christian astrologers, Christian just of all different kinds from different religious groups coming in. And it grew to well over 700 people. At one point I was the head. Um, there were five of us, we go for demonstrating for the five elements. We were the five masters. I was the head one and I wrote the rituals for the group and uh and yes, it's unfortunate.

Are we talking about an online group? Is that what it is?

Uh, we met online and some we met in person. Um, at that point, how dedicated were you to witchcraft, magic, all that stuff?

Uh, well, it was like how I said when I was younger that, uh, I just ate, drank, slept, lived martial arts. Well, I ate, drank, slept, lived occultism. Uh, I I would get up in the middle of the night to do rituals. I It was on my mind all day. It was on my mind all night. If I was awake, it was on my mind. If I was awake and conscious, I was thinking about, reciting, learning, studying, researching. There was no waking moment that it was not on my mind. That I was not completely and hopelessly obsessed with it. Uh, it was my everything. Is my driving force for being. I was I I there were individuals who who had contacted me because they saw the things I could do, read my stuff, my material. They've been in the in occultism for over 20 plus years. They said I was so far advanced than them that I terrified them. Um, uh, it got to a point I was I got into divination for God and uh, I and it just it came to me so naturally, just every form of divination, I could pick it up, I could do it. It wasn't a problem. Um, I so I started developing an identity as a as a spirit conjurer and as a master diver. Those are the two big things. Um, I was using divination. I was helping people find things where I could walk around their homes. Okay, you have this this this here and they're like, yeah, and people kind of they lost objects. One guy I remember he lost his cell phone and he was desperate because he had an incoming job interview and he needed his phone and he was absolutely desperate and and but he knew I could help him. So I so I'm like, no problem. And so I went into my trance and all all I needed to know was their name and roughly where they lived. And I went into my trance and I was outside of his home walking around and I saw his phone underneath the wooden steps of his house. I came out of the trance said, "Oh, you dropped it uh as you're entering your house. It's under the wooden steps of your front front door." He went and looked. It was there. As but I was doing all these things to help people and but it's because I lived it. The spirit saw my determination and they could depend on me to maintain the course. And so they were pouring upon me whatever I wanted. If I wanted something, wasn't a problem. If I want to do something, wasn't a problem. Uh, because they knew they could depend on me.

So, we've been talking about Christian occultism. Usually, that's an oxymoron. Christians say you can't be an occult, an occultist, and occultists say they they really don't want to be Christians. There's a small group of people that, like you said, you know, believe that they can be the middle ground.

Were you ever forced to pick between the two?

Yep. Yep. That was just shortly before the beginning of of uh that I fall into the dark arts. Now, I just want to clarify something. Uh, there is literally no difference between white magic and black magic. Magic is magic. There's no such thing as white magic or black magic. All magic is magic. It's just how you use it. But it's all from the same source. Uh, just some just want to have uh have this idea that uh you can just tap into the light side, the good side of evil. It doesn't exist. But any before going into uh actually denying turning away from the idea of the Christian use and going straight into black magic, yeah, there was um, is when I was studying Merlinian wizardry, which is very dangerous, very real, uh, controlling of elements, months. Um, uh, that's that really got my attention because I was quite obsessed when getting into this, hearing all all over the place, hearing the name Merlin once in a while coming up and of course, you know, Merlin the wizard and stuff and you're thinking, oh, that's just a bunch of baloney. But but that the time because of what I was learning, I'm like, what if a lot of the stories were weren't wrong, weren't false? It just, you know, Hollywood just blew it out of proportion. So Merlinian wizardry, it's called, is elemental magic, controlling of elements, all this stuff. So, and all the different kinesis arts, aerokinesis and stuff, like controlling elements. And so, getting into that when I started to tap into that um is the one day, this is after I've already been married for a little bit. My wife had no idea any of this was going on. Again, my secret second life, I just kept from everybody. I was I was a pathological liar and as I had no problem lying to dece to to hide this, everything I was doing, everything was secret. Um, but yeah, she was at work. When I was at home and I was on the other side of my my home here and a spirit came up and said to me, as clear as day, not audibly, but in my head, "If you want to get more powerful, you will have to deny Jesus Christ." But it was it was made to be like a thought of my own. But in that moment, I knew that was not me because I I wouldn't think like that. And so something else is saying that to me and that just immed terrified me. Is is that uh is this oppression against Christ and just that immediately just kind of just like a cold water splash in the face woke me up to everything that was going on, everything that I was doing. And just conviction came upon me in that moment. And it's just kind of just a moment of enlightenment of of just catching a glimpse of the road that I was on. And that terrified me. I had my dad come over and I called my dad. You know, I'm having some problems. And then after calling my dad, I realized what I had done. I can't tell him. I can't tell him. I can't tell him any of this. And so I'm panicking. So now my dad's on his way. What do I do? What do I do? What do I do? So I just made up some excuse. You know, I'd looked into something I shouldn't have. And I didn't really, I just, you know, just we kept a surface and all this stuff and enough to convince him and and so he prayed and all this stuff and after he left, I just was really shaken up for a while and I just kind of backed away from everything for a little bit. But then they don't let go that easily. The spirits don't let go that easy and they started, okay, we'll just let's just go slow. They try this and they so they started just enticing little things, little things just to try to steer me slowly back to where I was. Took a few months, but yeah, I was right back to where I was.

So after that day or maybe a few months later, did you consciously make the decision, I'm going to deny Jesus, I'm going to deny Christianity and fully embrace witchcraft?

I did get to that point. Uh, it it took a little while to get me to that point. Um, but that wasn't until uh that kind of mindset of denying wasn't till later on. Um, but to lead the lead up to that um, because that spirit that came to me uh, cuz the point is, is I was plateauing and I needed to I I wanted to get more powerful, but I was starting to see like some reason, some of the things I was doing was getting weak. Um, some of the ritual, they weren't being as powerful as they used to be. So what that what they would do, spirits will do is they'll play with you like a cat and a mouse. And so the it's if they want you to do something, they'll start pulling back to make you think you're growing weaker, then they'll tell you you need to do something so you can get more powerful again. So they they're playing you the whole time and you have no idea that that you're just a pawn. You're just a mouse in their claws and they're about to sink their teeth in. So the leadup to to that was well, they what they the ultimate goal is what they want me to do is to deny the faith. But they to do that, they have to get me to a certain level. And that's what the leadup to that was. And that was uh that they I was plateauing in my rituals and my powers and all this stuff. And I wanted to get more powerful, but I wasn't able to. I was seeming to get weaker or something. And that's when one of the familiar spirits told me that if I want to get more powerful um, I'm going to have to do this ritual. And and I'm like, "Okay, well, what?" Now, when I talk like this, u Yes, I'm actually having conversations because these spirits that I was convinced were angels would literally manifest in the room as wisps in the air and they would speak to me and I would speak to them. Now, it wasn't audible. Their voice would be in my head and uh they they were there and I could uh and they at this point they had given me a name. Would actually give me a a spirit name, an old cult name, uh that if I spoke this name, a bunch of them would just appear in the room as that I had become that dedicated. And so they're as a wizard in seeking of knowledge, they were the ones that giving me the all the advanced knowledge, all the advanced abilities, all these things and telling me how to do the rituals, how to write the spells, how to do the sigils and these things. I didn't have to even go to books anymore and research anything. I just asked them and they would tell me. That's how powerful I had become. And so they got me to the point where I had to do a blood ritual. And and again, right there, nope, I don't want to do black magic. I don't want to do blood. I don't want to get into that necromancy sacrificing and stuff. And so I just immediately just shut right down. Nope. And I just because I saw something was wrong here, I backed off. And for a few weeks or so, I I just I backed right off. And they just kept on and on. It's trying to make up reasons, all this kind of thing. And uh trying to convince me that uh, you know, it's not a big deal. You know, we're not saying sacrifice animals, any of that kind of thing. It's just it's just a little prick of the finger. Just a little bit of your blood in a in a sigil in a ritual. And I'm like, "No, that just that's a line I don't want to cross." And so to get me to get it, they they just started pulling back more, pulling back more and more abilities to the point I was I was feeling so dry and nothing left. They made me desperate and they they broke me by pulling everything away, all my abilities, everything. And so I I was like, "Okay, fine. What do you want me to do?" I said, "Okay, just it's this sigil. I just draw the sigil, you mark it with your blood, take it outside, burn it in this little ritual. It's as simple as this." And it took me a couple days of just, "Okay, fine." And so I went through the thing and all the whole time I'm doing this and something inside of me is screaming, "No, don't do it. Don't do this. Don't do this. Don't do this." And I distinctly remember standing there by the in the backyard by the by the uh bonfire pit and holding in my hand. I have the the lighter and all I have to do is set it on fire. It's as simple as that. All I have to do, I just just cut my thumb just a little bit, just to mark with my blood and and all I had to do was just burn it. I couldn't move. I just this is I can't do this. I can't do this. They're like, "All you got to do is set on fire." Then they were being so gentle. So gentle. All I got to do is burn this. And I can get whatever I want. All I got to do is burn this. You can have whatever you want. And I don't know how long I was standing there. And finally, I just I knelt down. Lit it. They're like, "See, that wasn't hard, was it?" And in that moment, the moment I set it on fire, I felt everything inside of me die. I became so cold. All of my emotions are gone. All of my empathy was gone. As I was as dead as a doornail. I had no emotions. I had nothing. Felt nothing. My fear was gone. Everything was gone. I was just just dry and just hard. But I but they they kept their word in that I became insanely powerful. But with that, I became increasingly more aggressive, a lot more angry. I would have outbursts of fury uh that to the sorrow of my wife that I caused so many fights, I was so angry. Every little thing would make me just explode. And that was the line that that led me to just wanting nothing to do with the faith.

What were you doing as a job by that point? Because it seems like you were extremely dedicated. It almost sounds like you were doing this full-time, but I don't know. So, did you, you know, what were you doing at that point in your life?

I I had different jobs, but I was practicing while on the job. Like, in my mind, I'm going through rituals. On the breaks, I'm I'm doing rituals and spells. I made my own uh created my own pocket Ouija board. I had special uh divination rune stones. I had all the stuff I was doing all on my own. So everywhere I was going, everywhere I had my own little witch bag, my witchcraft bag that I carried with me that had tools and different things. It had herbs and all kinds of stuff for offerings, all these things for the spirits. Um, I'd wear my amulets and all the stuff. I take the stuff to church and I would sit there in the services, but in my mind, I'm doing my own thing. I have my shirt, my hand in my sweater in my shirt and I'm handling the the amulets and stuff and I'm doing my own thing. Um, but the this life was my full-time job, so to speak, and everything else was secondary. So, I I I was finding ways to carry this life into everything that I was doing.

And I want to talk about your wife as well. You weren't doing this once in a while. Maybe like you, well, I guess you sounded like you were obsessed from the beginning, but but this is something that would be extremely hard to hide, especially from your wife. How much did she know? Did she suspect anything? Cuz you were wearing these amulets all the time, doing these things, even at work. So, I'm I'm imagine you would do some of that at home as well, probably. I mean, most likely. How were you able to hide that from her? And and do you know if she suspected anything at all?

My in-laws thought I was just a good Christian boy, a pastor's kid. Uh, devils target pastor's kids more than anyone else. But I'll tell you that as a fact. It's true. Cuz because they to get the pastor's kids, that discredits the pastor. They want nothing more than to destroy the preachers. Um, so they thought I was a good Christian boy. My uh my wife uh thought I was just a good Christian boy and I I kept everything hidden, especially, you know, when we got to uh to know each other and then we got engaged and I kept everything hid from her and and it wasn't until really after we got married and we moved in and uh I started realizing, okay, I'm going to have to be very careful because I know her as as a solid staunch true real born again Christian that everything that I'm about, she would oppose. So, I had to figure out times uh to that when she's not in the house or she's busy doing something, I had to be very careful, go behind her back, all this stuff to and also having to preemptively make up stories that I could use if she caught wind of anything. And to preempt also preemptively kind of bring up a little topic of something and the church kind of put that in there. So, cuz she knows literally nothing about any of the stuff that I'm doing to so to to bring false meanings, false stories about these things. So, if she caught wind of it, it means something else other than what I'm actually doing about it. That makes sense. Um, so yeah, I I was lying, making up stories. Uh, just making some things just look like it's just something to do with martial arts, you know. You know, everybody everybody's weird. Everybody has their own weird things, you know. I just have my little weird things. And so she just I just I would just kind of be very light about practices and stuff. So, but I would start to slowly introduce little things here and there, here and there, little little things here and there to try to get her used to things. and uh which was successful, but there were still a lot of practices and stuff that I kept away from her. Um, because again, the whole point is this is my life, not hers. No one else tells me what to do and I'm not because at the time I'm a hyper libertarian and that everybody has their own life. I have mine and I'm not going to tell other people what to do. I I firmly held to that into that practice. So with that, I just I just kept to myself. Now, for the main rituals and all this stuff, I would mostly do when she's either at work or I'm doing at night when she's sleeping and I just go in the other room and just be very quiet about it. Um, but yeah, she had no idea and I just lied about everything. And yeah, but uh she was an angel in all of that. There was something about her. She was instrumental in uh bringing me around to the faith because there is a power there. There was something there as that bothered me and nothing affected her. She didn't need to do anything. There was a power there and that always always intrigued me. And uh but again, the spirits weren't going to let me go. But uh but she she had a power that really influenced me in all of this. But but yeah, no, it was it was hard. But yeah, I I I lived a double life.

When it comes to your witchcraft life, what are some of the other things that you would do? Um, and I'm asking this for a specific reason. I for the people that currently are, you know, in the occult and things like that so that you can talk about some of these things so that they know that you literally lived that life because I'm sure that there's people that claim to, you know, be an ex warlock and whatnot and, you know, they haven't really done it. So, without saying too much, uh, what were some of the other practices you were involved in at the time?

Studying the Ars Goetia, the Ars Notoria, the Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram, and conducting black masses. Um, I went right into black magic and witchcraft, studying the sigils and the rituals to conjure the spirits. There's a lot that uh that I did in that way. The Ars Goetia, Ars Notoria were books that are filled with um rituals and sigils and names of demons and things. Uh, it's their black magic conjuring books. Well, no. I bring those up because what's crazy, for example, in the uh I was practicing these things long before the movie Doctor Strange came out. You wouldn't believe how much real-world occultism is in Doctor Strange. I was blown away when that movie came out. I didn't really know what was the movie was about. uh when he started saying that he was a master uh of mysticism and he a mass and he named a master of the Ars Goetia, Ars Notoria, I was I was blown back by h how I couldn't believe he they'd be so blatant to put that in the show. They're putting real sources, real material, real spells, real things to Tibetan mysticism, all this stuff is 100% real and they're putting that in a movie as entertainment um, it's just that that just blew blew me away. Plus, uh, Harry Potter, um, I actually have a quote by J.K. Rowling where she said that over one-third of the Harry Potter books deals with real-world occult. I have her quote that that she says with the source of the actual broadcast that that she was on that where she actually said this. Um, and uh, so yeah, the the world they're putting this in entertainment, but um, uh, these but these things are very real. The people that are in in the stuff will know what I'm talking about when I mention these things. But yeah, one of the things is I was the conductor of a lot of black masses. Uh, I can't believe I did that. But yeah, that was real. I would have a few hundred people would would team up for this and I would conduct a a mass sigil with everybody's names and I have special ceremonies and stuff of these these black masses and it just just it's just a mockery straight up mockery of Christianity is what it is. uh a black communion kind of thing, just making fun of God, making fun of the faith and just coming together to and at this point I was calling this my religion and I was being very brazen and blatant about this stuff and uh yeah, I was at the point I'm no longer had problem with uh using my own blood in rituals and stuff. So yeah, u I ne I I will say I never crossed the line. I never did sacrifices. I would wouldn't do that. Still to at this that point, I would never touch necromancy. I would never touch sacrificial uh arts stuff. I want nothing to do with that, but I was heavy into a lot of other forms of black magic.

And so you talked about black masses and I need to ask, was that in person? Was that online? How How do those work?

Both um, there there's some where we would do rituals in person. Uh, we do some of these masses in person and others is uh uh in in person and also um others there because there some of them are around the world as a part of the group, they would join in via social media, whatever, and as they that where they are, they would take part, you know, satellite, take part in the rituals. So yeah, that but that was the the assist of internet in the time because the age we're in, you're able to reach a broader audience. So they're able to bring them into this thing. So it's both in person and online.

And I get you would make up an excuse to hide that from your wife that you would you were leaving to do a black mass.

Uh, those are only done at night when she's in bed. That'd be outside by the burn one burn pit. I would go out and I would do this stuff. Um, or I'd be at work at that at that time. I'm a security guard on the resort and so I'm often myself. I'd find a dark corner where no one else is around and often some far away somewhere to do this with friends or other people and stuff. Um, yeah. So but uh I was very very careful uh to keep this kind of stuff in. Now I will say black when I say black mass, uh there are different practices of that. Uh, there is the form that is well known as black mass within uh uh hedge witchery, some form in witchcraft, or they do there's black mass that they do in actual Satanism. They have a whole different thing that they do. Uh, but in the occultism practice that I was doing with witchcraft, wizardry, this stuff and the elemental magic that we were doing, there is a whole different form of black mass.

Can you explain a little bit what that is? Because I the black mass that I'm familiar with, the well familiar that I've heard of at least, it's it's taking like Catholic mass and doing the inversion of that and doing it to Satan.

That's the satanic black mass.

Right. So what did yours look like?

Well, mass again is the gathering, is the ga gathering together. Black as it's the inversion of God. It has nothing to do with God. So the black mass, the uh black rituals that we would do in that is again, it's just to come together is now we all focus our powers together because with the sigil, we would give our name and the intent of what we want and it would all be drawn up in the sigil. This mass sigil burning uh ritual that we would do together and we'd focus our powers and this stuff, things would manifest and stuff. It was it was these kinds of things would send most people running for the hills if they saw the kind of stuff that we were doing and things that manifested. It was it was bad. It was dark.

I want to explore your relationship with Christianity and how that evolved because we started, you know, very early on, you know, Christian boy, pastor's kid. The transition into, oh, well, I'm still going to church, but I can do my own thing and becoming a Christian mystic to you had your your encounter, I guess, with the spirit that you became numb to it and I guess you weren't interested at all. So you said you were doing black masses. Did you cons did you is that what you called them back then? And also at the same time, I want to know after the last thing that you've talked about, this when you became numb to Christianity, how did that continue to evolve with time?

Um, well, uh, calling it black mass now is I use that name because that helps people to understand a bit more of what what it is that we were doing. We just called it just a mass ritual, mass gathering, mass ritual. Um, but we called it then. Um, yeah, this was this was also during the time as I wanted to become a grandmaster of spirit conjuring, divination, and a couple other arts. I wanted to get to a point where I was like a god. I wanted all the power. I I wanted to be the grandmaster. I no longer had to learn. I no longer had to gravel. I I wanted everything. I wanted it all of this. This is what I wanted. I had got to a point this that I've I found my identity within the whole confines of occultism because it's a spiderweb of all different practices and variations of I had found my thing. Um, I because of my ancestry as well. I was I was doing a genealogy of my family line and all this stuff, which I was really big into and I I discovered uh our family tree and doing this. It took me seven years and then I sent my findings to the Greenwich library of of ancestry and genealogy in Greenwich and they they actually verified my findings in my genealogy and found that my family line goes all the way back to uh to the Norse that were invading Britain. As a Viking jeans. So that when I discovered that, it to me was like, oh, that makes sense of a lot of things and the the Norse blood and all this stuff, hence the big beard. But is uh but that tied me into interest in the Norse gods and uh I really liked the Norse gods and the pantheon of that, the mythology of that. I got right into studying and reading and learning all about the Norse gods and North Pantheon and and about Seidr, which is the Norse witchcraft and all this kind of stuff that I was interested in. That really t pulled me into that and I found that uh the false god Heimdall, who is the the the god of divination and so I'm like, oh, that's interesting. Actually to tie back to what we were talking about when I talked about that blood ritual, that blood ritual that I did that I didn't want to do, that they made me do. I'm now pulling back the timeline here. Is that ritual, that ritual there of doing that sigil was to conjure Heimdall and uh because Heimdall would give me whatever I wanted, but it it took this special ritual I had to walk through, including my blood, to be able to summon him. And so it was that night, um, I uh was laying in bed. I don't know what time it was. I I woke up. I'm a very light sleeper. Things noises, things wake me up. And I I like what woke me up? I'm feeling wide awake, wired, wide awake. And I'm like, what's going on? I look down at the end of my bed. I'm at the foot of my bed and I seeing this figure, this tall figure in just black beyond black and and when I looked at it, is when it it moved and it walked up the side of my bed and it stood there. Now, the reason for the killing of all the sensations and feelings is so you would have no fear being in the presence of these beings because any normal person, if you saw that walking up beside you in your bed or you're laying there, you'd be absolutely petrified. And but that's the whole point of the ritual so you would feel nothing so you'd be able to converse with the god. And it reached out its hand and I actually felt its hand on my chest. And it and it says and when it spoke again, I heard it in my head as clear as day and it was a different voice and it said, "What do you want?" And and I I said, "I want to be a master of conjuring. I want to be a master of divination. I want to be a master of the mystic arts." I said, "Okay." Took its hand away and left. And the room lit up again. And it was from that point all of my powers, everything just exploded. And it was leading up to that is when I found going to church, I started feeling and just I didn't want it. I started making excuses to not go to church anymore. I was going to because I was keeping up appearances so nobody would ask questions because I was afraid of people prying into finding out what I was doing. But I was getting to a point I no longer cared. I would go to church and I'd be singing the hymns and every time the name of Jesus would come up, I literally couldn't say his name. There's like something around my throat and I couldn't say his name. It wasn't that that I didn't want to. It didn't bother me, but it's like and then say the rest of the words. I I I didn't want to and I couldn't say his name. And that's I started noticing something is pulling me away from this, but it wasn't bothering me so much. And at work where I was, I was starting to call this my religion as so that was leading to and now I was just a pull away separation. Wasn't reading my Bible anymore. I didn't care about the Bible. Didn't care about church. Didn't care about services. And I didn't care about if it was hurting other people, if it was bothering my parents, anything. I I had I actually at that point starting in my mind to I had an image of walking away from my wife, walking away from the church, walking away from everybody, going out in the woods and living by faith by black magic. I was so confident. I knew that if that had occurred, oh yeah, not even a problem. I was a master of shamanism, sorcery, wizardry, all these things. I I knew I knew how it all worked. I knew I could do it. It's not a problem. I could do whatever I wanted. And I was going to I was going to go live as a as a witch in the woods. I was going to do it, but the Lord had something else planned.

So, talking about um your wife, you talked about that experience where the the spirit showed up in the middle of the night that was blacker than black and you having to hide all these things from your wife. Did she ever catch something? Did Did she ever realize a little bit what was going on?

There there were times when I came very close to crossing the line as I because I'm try testing the waters to try to get her used to things. So I'm using little things uh to try to desensitize her and but that that was that scared her. She wanted nothing to do with that. Um, the uh using the water witching wands. I was a water witch. I could use the wands to find water and stuff. And many people like, "Oh, it's all fake." No, it's not. It It's real. Um, very It works works very well. It's very powerful. It's very real. Why do you think it's called water witching? It's real. It's not energy. It's It's an ancient divination form of searching to find things. Uh, witching is in the Bible. Um, the one pagan king, he came, I forget which passage where it is, but uh, the the king, he needed to figure out which which way to go on the roads. So, so he grabbed an arrow and he made his arrows bright, is what it says. But in the Hebrew, to to bright means to shake, that he would hold the arrow in a certain way and it would start moving on its own and and it would point in the direction because the spirits would shake it and steer it in the direction. I could use the water witching wands to I would ask questions and would move yes or or they cross for no or or yes, no, or whatever. They they would move in the direction I'd want to to give me answers. Um, I practiced that using playing cards and I would say, "Okay, which card is the eight of diamonds?" And I would go across and the and it would they would cross right over it. Yes, witching is a real occultic practice. Um, but yeah, I tried to show her that and no, that was too much. But uh there was the odd little thing here and there that she just felt I was going too far with things, but she was also afraid of making me angry and all this stuff. So there was I was a mess. But uh there was uh another instance um I that was the time I was practicing uh the automatic writing. Automatic writing is the ability where a spirit will take over either yourself or just your limb or just your hand and you'll just automatically write out whatever and is it's also known as partial possession. Um, and so it was during this is learning these kinds of things and uh any watching television and she just happened to look over at me just as my familiar spirit was leaving my mouth. There was a white wisp and she just exclaimed, "What in the world is that?" And and I wasn't paying attention and this all this is going on and I kind of dropped my shield there and I panicked and I started making excuses or maybe it's cold in here or whatever. I tried to brush it over, but she just kind of just dropped it. So, she I guess she I don't know, bought the lie or something. I don't know. Anyways, but she dropped it. But that was very close to uh her finding out what I was going what was going on because yeah, just this little white wisp just came out of my mouth. Um, and this is middle of summer, just FYI. And then there's no air conditioning or any of that kind of stuff. That that that was. Another thing that comes to my mind, there's a lot of rituals involved in these things. And usually when I

Hear people talk about this, there's a very specific way you're supposed to do them. And even you alluded to that you would do, um, like, I guess ritual books. I think you talked about in the beginning where like, you need to do it this way, this way. Does something happen if you do the wrong order, if you mess up or make a mistake? Um, do the spirits get mad? What's the deal with that?

Yeah, there's different forms of magic. Um, there's the, there's high magic and low magic. That for it's like, um, within Christianity have what's called high church. You know, within the certain Presbyterian, Anglican, or whatever that with the, the fancy ceremonies, there's high church, there's high ritual, high magic where you go through fancy ceremonies and all kinds of rituals to be able to to do a thing. And there's low magic, very simple, basic kind of stuff. Um, but yeah, the, the, uh, rituals. Well, you got to have, I'm, I'm being funny here. You know, wing of bat, eye of newt, you know, throw in the pot kind of thing. What, what is that? Does that actually do anything? No, it does nothing. Well, what's it for? You're obeying the spirits. They, they make stuff up. Well, if you want this, okay, I need you to, you have to go do this, this, this, this. You have to bow this way, turn this way, say this word, do this thing, do this dance, you know, jazz fingers, this.

But, uh, the, the just the point is, is for the devils to see that you are willing to do what they say. No matter what, how stupid, crazy, or whatever the ritual is. As long as if you do what they say, they will give you this. No matter what it is, that's what rituals are. That's what that's about. It's, it's learning subservience. It's learning to do whatever you're told. And if you could just do whatever you're told, then they will do the thing. That's what that is. But if you, uh, disrespect them, uh, devils are egotistical, prideful, arrogant, spiteful, sore losing, evil, monstrous beasts. If you disrespect them, if you don't do as you're told, and if you're supposed to be their disciple, and you mess up, you don't do what they're told, you get punished. There's, there's a, a backfire that that and you will pay from your own self. They will cause something to happen, illnesses, problems, pains, aches, accidents, whatever. They are spiteful and they don't care about you. They will do whatever. They will punish you. Depending on the severity of the mistake or the disrespect or whatever will depend bring the severity of the punishment.

Um, why, why do you think that in the old Lauren myths they always show that that twisted, haggard old woman, you know, crone thing? Why does she look like that? Because she went through a lot of blood, sweat, and tears to get where she was and there's a lot of punishment. It's real. It's real that that that to also to achieve certain levels of power actually takes a toll on you physically. You will age faster. A lot of you'll get some problems. You might get an illness. You might lose a finger, a limb, or whatever. Something could happen. This, this is real. This is what it is. Uh, for real-world power like Jenna and Jambre's Merlin, black magic, witchcraft stuff, that there is a cost. Um, I messed up in the one ritual. I forget what it was, what I was doing. Um, that's beside the point. I was at work. I, I had ticked off my familiar and it punished me. I guess it decided it was time to pull my card. For like, I talked about the cat and the mouse. It was time for the cat to kill the mouse and it, it forcefully possessed me. I say forceful possession, that's a possession against your will. Um, where it just forced itself upon me. I actually felt my consciousness pushed to the back of my head. Something else took over. My voice changed. Low, gravelly. I, my voice changed. My body felt like it was a thousand tons of lead, but I felt so energized, like I could run a million miles an hour. It was just weird. And my heart started fibrillating and my heart stopped for a moment. There's slammed. And then it started up again. And I realized in that moment, it's trying to kill me. That it's trying to kill me. And I, I just started panicking, pacing back and forth, uh, deep breathing, trying to coughing, trying to keep my heart going. And I'm just pacing around. And I, I walk off into a parking lot and I, this is middle of the night. There's nobody around. This is off-season too. And I just, I just cried out, Jesus, save me. Meaning, you know, just save me from this. What's going on? Help me. It just came out of me. And I, so I felt something else come. This, it was the Lord too. And it pushed this thing away and it started to fight and there was a fight for my heart. And at this, at this point, I, I'm beside myself. I run over to my supervisor. I think I'm having a heart attack. I need to go to the hospital. So he quickly drove me to the hospital. They rushed me in and, uh, they threw me on a gurney. They hooked me up to all the machines, all the stuff. They took my blood, do the blood tests, and all the machines, all the stuff, and the blood work. Nothing showed heart attack, anything that there was anything wrong with me. They didn't know what was going about that. They could see I'm and they could feel it, but the machines showed nothing. This is weird. They couldn't figure out what was wrong with me. So, I laid on the bed in the hospital for, for like six hours, having heart attack symptoms and they couldn't figure out what was wrong with me. People say, "Oh, you're having a panic attack or whatever." They could say whatever they want. I know what happened. I, I knew it was happening. I could feel it. I knew it was going on. And in that moment again, that, that old enlightenment and realization came to my mind that what I'm doing is wrong. That and this is, that was a battle in and of itself cuz I didn't want to let go. I didn't want to let go of everything. But so I, I kind of bargained with God and that I, I, I consigned myself to that the black magic stuff that I'd been doing was wrong. I repented of the black magic. I let go of the black magic, but I didn't let go of everything altogether. It's just, but the kind of a bargaining with with God and the conviction of all of this and I, and that's when it, everything stabilized.

Looking back, people say, "Well, how could you do that? That doesn't make sense." If the Lord, scriptures say, "The goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance." The goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance. So the Lord's seeing me and that's it, that I'm, I'm, I'm showing a willingness to work with him in this one step at a time. One step at a time. One step at a time. Getting me closer, closer. Closer. Closer. That if I can bring myself to a realization that this is bad, that's a good step. That's a very good step. And so that's looking back now, hindsight's 2020. I see that as the Lord doing that with me. But if I had have died on that journey right there, I'd be in the fires of hell screaming right now. Like that's how close I came. I, I, yeah, you're just one breath away from eternity. That, that close. And I'm, I'm here only by the grace of God. Purely by the grace of God. There's the only reason I'm sitting here right now. But, uh, I've had a lot of thinking to do and reshaping of my, my person, my identity, all this. What am I going to do? Cuz I, I deleted old accounts, got away from old company. I wanted nothing to do with that world, that life. That, that almost killed me. I want nothing to do with anymore. I complete cut off and a reshape, remake. I got rid of all the witchcraft stuff and I just focused on on shamanism, just nature-based light, uh, stuff that would seem, you know, the white magic is what they call it. Uh, that kind of stuff. I want nothing to do with the dark stuff anymore. I renamed myself and and got rid of the old familiar spirits. I want nothing to do with that. New familiar spirits came or the old ones just remasted themselves and, uh, yeah, I just kind of remade my life in that way and, uh, that was about 6 monthsish before the end.

>> Well, let's talk about the end. So timeline wise, you have this heart attack experience thing that makes you realize what I'm doing is wrong. By the way, it, it's interesting that you called on the name of Jesus, but you had, I don't know if you had fully denied him at that point, but I think you were close, right?

>> I had at that point. I, I wanted nothing to do with Christianity.

>> But somehow you called out to Jesus and I mean, I guess you survived. So, something worked and and then you realized, okay, this is bad. The black magic is bad. So, you choose to focus on white magic, but you're still in practicing magic. So, um, what happened for, um, us to get to today?

>> I had, uh, I, I had reshaped myself into, I was a practicing shaman. I got really big into shamanic drumming tracks, meditation, that kind of stuff, astral projection, all this kind of stuff. And I teaching, you know, this aspect of wizardry and magic and and elemental stuff mixed with the nature base. And and for for a period of time, it felt so right that this is, this felt better. This, there was no aggression. A lot of my hatred went away with the black stuff. And again, that was all just just to, they were doing whatever they could to keep me, keep me in this in some way. They'll give you anything. They don't care if you read the Bible. They don't care if you go to church as long as you don't take it seriously. You see, so this is what they're doing. They're, they, they're working with me to keep me in this. So, and that went on about 6 monthsish. And, uh, um, I remember the night I was going to work in condos. That's what it's called. is where the, the security guard do doing vehicle patrols out in the con, all the condos around the resort. So, you're by yourself all night and this is off-season. So, it's, it's the night is dead, quiet. There's only a couple of us on. There's nobody around. So, I was listening to my, uh, meditation stuff and talking to some friends online. I had a, a couple shamanic things with me, but I had realized on my drive-in that I had forgotten my one item. One, my my main prized possession. Uh, was a, uh, a yak bone mala bead necklace. Uh, the beads are actually yak bone and it was from Tibet and it was blessed by Tibetan mystics. It was a haunted object. It was a very powerful occultic object that if you put it on, I also had spellcasted as well and everything prior that it was of such power that if you put it on, you would, you would gain all the powers of divination and, uh, it was a very powerful object, one of my prized possessions. And I'd forgotten it at home and which I believe was a grace of God because if I had that, the spirits that were with that thing would have probably fought against me getting saved more, would have been a problem. And so the Lord had me forget it. And because, um, as I, I didn't have all the spirits there with that, they were bound to that object. And, um, now all down through all the years up through one thing we didn't touch on was that every once in a while my old Christian life, you could call it, uh, would come back. And that when I was growing up, I would go to the Awana's and the Sparkies youth groups, go to church and all, all the, the church functions and such. And through all of that, there was a major portion of this was scriptural memorization. Especially as a pastor's kid, going to church school, homeschooled, scriptural memorization was key, big thing. And I always tell parents is get your kids to memorize as much scripture as possible. It will protect their minds. It will help them in more ways you can believe and it could be instrumental in bringing them to the Lord later on because all down through all this horrific story is every once in a while scripture would just pop up. Like the spirit of God is is trying to bring up remembrance, conviction that I was constantly fighting against, pressing down, pushing away. Like Romans 1:18 and 25, that they suppress the truth in unrighteousness. I heard a preacher once use the best, one of the best explanations of that is, uh, to suppress the truth is like you take a beach ball. You're at the beach, you take a beach ball and you write, uh, across it, truth. Now take that ball, push it under the water and deny that it exists. It'll try to pop up, but you're constantly fighting to push it down. Push it down. Push it down. Push it down. That's suppressing the truth in unrighteousness. And so I kept pushing it back, pushing it back, pushing it back. Well, that night verses started coming up in remembrance, coming up and convictions started coming up, but there was nothing that I could do about it. It just kept coming up and I, I couldn't fight it. I couldn't push it away. And it was bothering me and bothering me and bothering me. It just constantly, constantly this. And the big main thing that the thought kept coming through, if Jesus Christ is Lord, if he is God, then everything he says is the authority and truth. That is one of the big things and to this day is I'm a big fighter for proving the, the divinity, the deity of Jesus Christ. And if he is God, then there is none else. He says, "I am the way, the truth, the life." That was one of the verses, the, the only. He didn't say, "I am a." And and the Lord's ways are righteousness. These ways are sin. All these verses, all, all these kinds of things kept coming up, kept coming up. It got to a point I, I was, I was, I was shaking. I had to, I pulled off into a parking lot and I'm sitting there and and it's like my eyes open to seeing the path that I was on and seeing I was at a fork in the road. And okay, I'm trying to build up a scene here so you understand the severity of everything's going on. Um, on my left side, all the familiar spirits that I had were just putting up such a fuss to telling me that God just wants to take away everything that you, everything you've worked for. Look at you, you're a master of all this. And look at you, you're troubled by this. Cuz I'm, I'm gripping the steering wheel, white knuckling, and I'm starting to tear up. And they're now making fun of this and judge. And they also tell me, you know, he just, God just wants to take away everything. He's just being mean. But I'm sitting there now, I didn't see anything. But I swear on the right side and si, sitting in the passenger seat was the Son of God. And he was staring at me. But I was so terrified to turn my head. I was terrified to look at him. I was so terrified to look up because at nighttime, I was afraid to see his reflection in the, in the windshield. I, I was so scared of him. Just terrified of him. But I knew who he was. I knew what was going on. I couldn't suppress anything anymore. The devils are screaming now, screaming at me. They know what's going on. And the thought comes across my mind. Someone says the words. I believe it was the Lord said the words. You have to choose. Choose you this day whom you will serve. I ended going through my mind. This all happened in just seconds. And in my mind went through my whole life. All the work, all the effort, all the blood, the sweat, the tears, the pain and the struggle. Everything I had built, the, the power, my life, my identity, everything that I was is is right here, but it's wrong, but it's sin. And I just completely broke down. I just lost it. All of my emotions, everything that I had lost on that day I did that ritual, everything came back like a flood. It just broke. Completely broke. I was sobbing. Just sobbing. And they're mocking me. Look at you, master. You're crying like a baby. They're making fun. Making fun. Making fun. I'm just sobbing away cuz I, I accepted that I, I know that this is wrong. This is wrong. I was wrong. I, this whole time I've been wrong. I was wrong. And I'm not sure how long I sat there. I'm crying and it's just, there's a battle for my soul in that car right there. Lord Jesus is on this side. All the devils are on this side. And I'm being torn apart is what I felt like. I'm being completely torn apart. My mind is being torn apart and I'm a sobbing mess. But I knew, I knew as I just, Lord, I believe. I'm sorry. And I just repented right there. Simple as that. By the simple salvation, by simple grace, by simple faith, by the great work of the Lord Jesus Christ. Me, a sergeant of hell. I was a powerful warlock, master of the mystic arts, master of spirit conjuring, a servant of demons, blasphemer of God. I had taught so many people the ways of hell. I had moved Christians into into Christian occultism. I had done so much evil of things I don't, I can't even talk about. I, in that moment, met a power beyond powers, a God beyond gods. I didn't have to earn anything. I didn't have to grovel. I didn't have to slave. I didn't have to earn brownie points. I didn't have to prove anything. All I had to do was just acknowledge that Jesus Christ is the Lord, that this is the truth, and believe. And by grace, I was saved by faith. And in that moment, uh, dear Lord Jesus, forgive me. I'm a sinner. Save me. My mind went silent instantly. It was, it, that was profound. That was tangible. That was so profound. My mind was a constant non-stop hive. Just noise and voices and stuff. And it just went blank. Just like that. Stopped. They were gone. They just were gone. And I'm sitting there in in a state of complete and utter stunned silence. And I felt a weight just lifted off of me. I felt my powers. Now, if you study some of the dark masters, they talk about the seething energies that just flow through you. You can feel the magic. You feel the power gone. All gone. Everything felt empty. All the amulets, the charms, everything that I had, I was had a whole bunch of it on. Everything was empty. I'm sitting there and just, just my head felt light. And I just, and I look down and I, I see all the amulets and the charms. I just started tearing them all off. I wanted nothing to do with it anymore. I just tore it all off like a madman. And and I'm, I have it in my hands and I'm like, "Oh, what am I supposed to do with it?" And a voice, very quiet, still small voice says, not, not an angry voice, not a demanding voice, but a still small voice says, "Burn it. I command to burn it." Okay. So, I step out of the vehicle and I, I dump it in the parking lot there and I take my lighter that I have and I just set off. I burned it right there in the parking lot. I had a, a bracelet I was wearing at the time. Very simple little bamboo cotton bracelet that looked looked innocuous. Nothing to it. But it was one of the most powerful protective amulets I had. It had so many spells cast over this thing of protection so that I could not be possessed against my will again. And the Lord says, "What about that?" I was terrified to take that off. I'm like, "You serious?" "Yeah, you got to get rid of it." Okay, I trust you. I, and did the tie and I slowly took it off my hand in expecting in that moment to just be completely assaulted. And I just took it off my hand and I, I literally braced and nothing, nothing happened. Okay. Took the lighter, held the lighter up to it. Now, just simple bamboo and cotton. Held the lighter up to it. Wouldn't burn. I'm serious, bro. I held that lighter to it like 30 seconds. Just held it over the fire. It wouldn't burn. It was so possessed. That object. It was so demonic. That object, it wouldn't burn. Like I'm like, "No, no, no, no. I'm scared." And I said, "Lord, in your, in your name, I rebuke this thing. Would you please send it to the fires of hell where it belongs? I rebuke this in the name of Jesus. I don't want this anymore." And I held the lighter up to it and it burned. And I'm standing there, all my stuff's gone. I have nothing. I felt so naked. I felt so vulnerable. And I'm standing there and and I, I said, "Lord, now what? What do I do? What do I do?" And he says, "Well, now it's time to learn the faith." Like, "Okay, all right. I got a long way to go." But in that moment, in my, to myself, I, I, I, I thought, you know, the, the, the amount of passion and zealousness and fervency I had poured into all of that occultism. I'm not going to pour double that. I'm, I'm going to pour that same, this is going to be my life. I'm going to dedicate myself to this. That, that now I'm going to be this, a servant of the Lord. It's incredible. I need to ask you because your wife, this whole time, thought you were a Christian. Had no idea. I guess she saw glimpses, but maybe she didn't want to believe. Now that you actually became Christian, I guess you had to tell her. So, >> how did that go?

>> It was just a few moments after that the Lord told me I got to relearn the faith. I'm, I'm standing there. I have no idea what I'm going to do. Just, it was overwhelming. Um, I'm standing there in the middle of the night just in a back park and I'm just leaning against the van just kind of in a, in a daze kind of, you know, just at the same time, you know, what have I done? Just, just the immensity of everything is just, I'm just overwhelmed. And the thought comes from across my mind, my wife. I'm like, oh no, oh no. Um, and my stomach just drops, my heart just drops. How do you, how do you tell someone this? Like, what do you do? I, I'm, I'm, I'm terrified. It's like she's going to be so upset. It's just, it's going to cause problems. Like, what am I going to do? And I'm, I'm beside myself. And I, and the Lord just kind of, just doesn't say anything. Just kind of taps me on the shoulder cuz I, I'm reminded him again. I'm like, "Help me. Just help me. I have to say something." And they're like, "Oh no, I forgot the th, the, the necklace. I, I because this is, there's a, there has always been a part of me that has been scared of that thing because how powerful it is, how evil it is, and it's the last vestige. It's the last thing I have. Sorry, one of the last things. I had an idol. I kept a, a little black figurine, a thing. I had made an idol of my familiar spirit at home. I got rid of that later. But that, that necklace was, was the most dangerous thing. And so I'm like, "Oh, I gotta get, I gotta get rid of that. I gotta get rid of that. What do I do?" So I, I grabbed my cell phone. I, I called and, uh, I said, "Uh, okay. I need you to trust me." Like, "Okay, I need you to do something for me. I need you to go into this room. Go over here and in this box underneath these things, you will find this bead necklace. Like, okay, take it over to the garbage bin and I want you to break it, throw it in the garbage. Could you just do that for me?" Like, "Okay, just a minute." And I hear rummaging, then I hear the sound of the falling beads in the garbage, garbage pail. It's like, okay, it's done. I'm like, okay, I will explain everything. I'll just trust me. I'll explain everything when I get. Okay, that was the longest shift, bro. That was the longest shift of my life I've ever had. Dreading going home. I was dreading going home. I was so scared. And anyways, I, I get home. I, I about 3:30 in the morning. I, as it was a shorter night. I got off, go home, go to bed, and I wake up, my wife's in the living room, and I come out and she's like, "So, what's going on? I got something to tell you." And I told her how I got saved last night. And she, the look on her face is a bit of confusion. And I just kind of gave her the cliff notes. I said, I, I, I'll explain things as later, but you just, this is what was happening. This is what I was doing. This is what was going on. I lied to you. I deceived you. I got saved last night, but you forgive me. I'm sorry. And it just explained that, just, it's a long conversation. And she's s, sitting there and her great big eyes looking back at me and just the look on her face. I just, she, when I, I kind of finish talking and I just, I'm just waiting for the hammer to drop. But she just says, like I said, she's an angel. But I, the Lord proved himself because at the same Lord of the same faith, at the same Christ, of the same cross, of the same grace, of the same love and the union in the spir, the union of the spirit and the bond of peace, spirit of God spoke through her right there. Okay. She said, I can't blame you for anything that you did before you were saved. I mean, after all that I had done. Now, what she said was interesting because while after that, I had to come clean to my in-laws, to my family, and then to the church and everybody basically said the exact same thing. And the Lord led me to a passage that that helped me because I struggled with such guilt. So much guilt. Everything I had done. So much guilt. And the Lord brought me to Hebrews, uh, Hebrews 8:12. And I'll be merciful to their unrighteousness. And their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. Not only does he forgive your sins, he forgets them. They're gone. They'll never be brought up. They'll never be held against you. You'll never have to answer for them. They're gone. The blood of Jesus Christ washes away all sin. And Hebrews 8:12 was instrument, was so instrumental to me to bringing me such just peace about everything. So now my whole testimony of everything is not spoken in guilt, but in this is what the Lord overcame. This is what the Lord is able to forgive. This is what the Lord is able to defeat. I was a Genis and Jim. I was a gathering demoniac. I was Alimus the sorcerer. I was all these things. But look, but the Lord Jesus Christ, by one word, one word, he drives out the devils. By one word, he saves a soul. By one word, he just overcomes. He is the Lord and there is none else. He is God and there is none else. For there's no other name under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved. At the name of Jesus, every knee will bow and every tongue shall swear. All the gods of the heathens are false gods. Be alone is the Lord and there is none else. There's none other like him. There's none of the beside him. Jesus Christ is Lord. That is one of the most profound examples of forgiveness that I've heard, especially from your wife.

>> Yeah. Because how many years had it, how many years had you been married by that point?

>> Um, almost eight years.

>> So, 8 years of lying, probably some amount of manipulation in order to to be able to get her to believe some of these things of just completely. Oh, you did me mention that as well.

>> Yeah. Yep. Yep. Manipulation, all of that. Everything. Everything. Everything.

>> It takes a very special kind of person to be able to be told that and to say, "I forgive you."

>> Yep.

>> There are not many people like that. And I think the fact that not only she did, but that the church and your dad, all these people that were all these Christians in your life did the same thing is a testament that they, they have something in common.

>> And the point of it was the Lord was showing it doesn't matter who you are. It doesn't matter what you've done. It doesn't matter what is going on. The Lord can save you. The Lord will forgive you if you would just come to him. Uh, one of the things I tell people as well is in the book of Ezekiel where the Lord says, "I own all the souls. All souls are mine, says the Lord." The reason I bring that one up is because there have been a number of occultists, Satanists, who have sold their soul to the devil. Like literal devil worshipping satanic practitioners who sold their souls to the devil come under conviction and terror and and believing that they're bound to hell. They can't be saved. And I tell, I show them this that actually the devil can't own that which God already does. God controls the souls, not the devil. You can't sell that which you don't own. And that verse alone has led a number of satanic practitioners to getting saved. It doesn't matter who or what you are. His blood can wash away all sin. I want to ask a question about some of the things we talked about earlier. I asked, you know, if the spirits got mad at you and you, you know, you gave a few examples and you said that when you go against them, they, they're not very happy. There would not be a bigger affront than what you had committed. So,

>> did they ever try to get back to you for turning your back on them?

>> Yeah. Yeah. Um, in all my life, and all the years I had poured into the occultic witchcraft world, I had never seen as much demonic oppression and activity as I received after I got saved. Uh, they, they came down on me with all the fury of hell. Uh, if they can't have your soul, then they're going to get your mind. They're going to get your testimony. They're going to get your life. They're going to cause you to be unusable to the Lord. And for the first two years of my, uh, saved life, my born again life, um, uh, I was, I was on the verge of complete and utter mental break. Uh, they, they poured such, so much, just everything on me. Uh, I was seeing a, uh, a therapist, uh, because I, I was actually medically and psychologically diagnosed with PTSD, stress, uh, trauma. Uh, I was so broken. I was told by the psychologist that my mind was broken and that I would have to learn just live with that. Uh, I didn't know what to do. Uh, and, uh, my dad gave me a book. It's called They Found the Secret by V. Raymond Edmund. And it's a b, it's a compilation, a whole bunch of testimonies of of saints who had come to real realization and the, the actual personal understanding of what it means to die to self. Also known as what's called the second blessing. And it's about yes, you're saved, but now about dedication to the Lord and how this works. And I, I couldn't grasp it. I couldn't grasp, couldn't grasp it until finally I read in the one excerpt as this old preacher, forget his name, uh, he said, "God the Father sits on the throne reigning sovereign and has no need of a body." Jesus Christ, the Son of God, sits sits on the right hand of the Father, already has a body, has no need of a further body. But the Holy Spirit, spirit of Christ, which indwells the heart of every believer, has need of a body. Will you give him yours? And now me knowing my background and and everything that I had gone through, I know what he's saying. And so thinking about that, uh, really meditating on that, what does it mean to die to self, forsake all, follow me, giving yourself to the Lord like this? And so that, it, it just clicked. You're right. I'm going to give myself to the Lord and I want to, I want to serve him. Now, of course, the enemy is not going to let go so easily. They, they constantly fighting back and just issues and problems and trauma and just fear and just, I'm still struggling. Still struggling. I, I getting that I'm still struggling. And it, to make a long story short, um, I, I gotten to a point where I'm, I'm in the park out back and I'm just, I, I, I, I can't handle anything anymore. I couldn't drive. I couldn't go to town. I couldn't go to church without having a breakdown and I'm crying. I'm struggling. And so I'm in the park and I just, I don't know what to do. And and and I'm by myself early in the morning. I kneel down and I say, "Lord, I'm done. I can't handle it anymore. I, I don't want to live anymore. I, I just, I can't handle all this trouble, this trauma, all these things. I, I just, if you can use me, I'm yours. I, I'm done. I'm done." And it just poured out of me. Just came out of me. Whether I'm rich or poor, healthy or sick, strong or weak, Lord, I'm yours. And from that moment, because the Lord had said to me, well, have you given me a try? And so I, I, I just, it poured out right there. I, and from that day there, I, I, I died. And I dedicated myself to now I'm going to live by faith of the Son of God where I tried to live by faith by black magic. Now I'm going to live by faith by the Son of God, the Lord Jesus Christ. And I dedicate myself to him. And from that point forward, I started making leaps and bounds, uh, recovery in my mind, in my life, to the point where I'm, I'm literally sitting across from the psychologist who told me, "Your brain is broken. You're going to have to learn to live with it. This is what you are now." And so I'm, I'm sitting there across from her and she says, "You're so completely different." He says, and she shakes her head. She, and she says, and I quote, "You're not supposed to get healed, recover from PTSD. This is not supposed to happen." And she says, "How did that happen?" And I, I, I was able to give her the gospel. And how it worked was scriptural memorization. I poured scripture into my mind because it, I was reminded of many, many years prior, uh, of a different church my dad was pastor at. There was a, there was a young man coming there who was having so much problems in public school. They, the public school mocked him. The teachers called him the school dummy. He, he was, he had so many learning problems. And so the, he, he and his mother came to my dad to ask for advice and counseling. And my dad challenged and says, "You know what? I, I have a challenge for you. Start memorizing scripture. Start memory as much scripture as you possibly can." So he took that and he started committing it to memory and he became like a savant. He became so intelligent, so smart, he became one of the school geniuses. The Lord, the Lord blesses where his word is. As I committed as much scripture to memory as I could and started serving the Lord as much as I could and the Lord healed my mind. We've talked about your healing. Having talked to as many people as I have, I know that it's not always that simple. Mhm.

>> Is there a cost that you still carry today of having engaged in these things?

>> Oh yes. Um, what I tell people and everybody who is a practitioner or an ex-practitioner, every single last one of them will will agree with me. If you open that door, it does not close. The thing once you have seen, once you have heard, once you've experienced it, it doesn't go away. It loses its hold on you when you get saved, but it doesn't go away. Um, and I'll tell you it, that there is not a day that goes by where I don't see them, where I don't hear them, where they don't bother me in some way, shape, or form. Uh, every single day. Um, oh yeah, middle of the night, middle of the day. And it's not my imagination. I'm not just seeing. No, that I know what they are. I know what they're like. I know what they're about. I know what's going on. It's them. They just want to constantly remind me. They just want to constantly trouble me, affect me in some way, shape, or form. But, um, what I've learned, what I've learned at first for, for quite a while, it, it really bugged me, really bothered me, really troubled me. But I have learned, um, like Apostle Paul, this is my thorn in the flesh. And that now I look at them differently. Now they, they don't trouble me. All they are now is a, they're a constant reminder to me what's going on. That, of, of where I am, what happened, that this is real, how real it is. And that, that, that their constant troubling and affecting and oppressions, all this stuff, it strengthens my faith because it keeps me close to the Lord because, uh, because it's hard for me, if I can say, I, I don't want to sound wrong here. It's hard for me to become apathetic. It's hard to become apathetic when you're constantly having demonic manifestations in your house, you know. Um, I laugh about it because there's no power but of God. They, they have no power over me. They do what they want. I don't care. I've been sitting here in this chair preaching the gospel, doing my broadcasts, doing my broadcast, giving the gospel, doing spiritual warfare stuff, and I'm literally, they're, they're poking their heads around visible like poking their heads around the curtain. I've had my curtains, window curtains in the other room blowing sideways like this. No windows open, no fans blowing inside. Like I've had full poltergeist in the home while I've been sitting here preaching the gospel into the crowd because they're trying to trouble me. They're trying to distract me, hinder me, upset me. All they're doing is making me that much more just fervent. They're just, they're just driving my passion that much more because I now know what's going on and I'm going, I'm going to bring the power of heaven upon them. Like they can't stop me. All they do, all they do is enhance my faith. But yes, once that door is opened, it doesn't close. And for some people, that would be a real problem. But I, I'm only sitting here by the grace of God. I think it's important to talk about these things. Not only for people to know, you know, what happens, but also for people that are curious. There are a lot of people that are curious, and I know that there's people watching my videos that are just curious about the occult and are thinking, maybe I should try to get into that. That there is a real cost.

>> Oh yes.

>> And and whether you leave or not, you talked about, you know, short-term, long-term, there, there's a cost all the time. So I thought it was important to talk about. I think your story is very inspiring. It's beautiful because of the passion that you had from the very beginning to pour out your passion into all these things, but now you do it for good. So, um, I thank you for sharing that. And to end this off, what would be the final words that you would have to say, uh, to people?

>> There is no power but of God. Um, I, I've done a lot of counseling with ex-witches, ex-occultists, ex-Satanists, and and I have, I've forget how many I, I've had the honor of leading to the Lord who have gotten saved. And so many of them, I, I've spent hours counseling them, helping them just to understand the power of the Lord Jesus Christ. You have nothing to fear that, uh, that these things that trouble these devils that keep oppressing that bring up the past to, I keep reminding them the Lord forgives and forgets that you're wounded by the past. And you will always have the scars. I have many scars from cuttings and stuff, for example. But you forget the scars. They lose their pain. You, you forget about it over time. And, and you might look back and he's like, "Oh, yeah. I remember that." It's just a memory. The Lord has forgiven your sins. And that he has forgiven and and forgotten, they're gone. And they only remain as memory in your mind. They're not a power. And Jesus Christ has forgiven you. His blood has washed away all sin. He, His grace, his strength, his faith, his spirit is more powerful than anything that hell could possibly throw at you. Than his, His strength is greater than all of your sin. Where sin abounds, His grace did much more abound. Jesus Christ is God and there is none else. As it says in 1 John 5:20, Jesus Christ, the true God and eternal life. And when the Lord calls you to his kingdom, when he calls you into his service, he has already factored in all of your weaknesses, failings, and struggles. And he's already put into motion all the means to pick you back up. Fear not, worry not, doubt not, care not, fret not, be anxious for nothing. Cast your care upon him for he careth for you. Forgetting the things of the past, take no thought of the tomorrow. Sufficient unto the day is evil. There have one day at a time. One tick of the clock at a time. Just walk with the Lord in his hand. He holds not your hold on him. It's his hold on you. It's all about him. The enemy wants you to think of them. The enemy wants you to consider them. They want you to think of your past. But he's forgiven and forgotten your past. You're now new in him. You are born again, born into new life. You have nothing to worry. You have that there's nothing to fear but fear itself. Fear of the Lord. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. The thing that I pass on to people I want people to remember is to hold on is that Christianity is a person, not a system. Christianity is Jesus Christ. It's not a system. It's not the rituals, not the traditions. It's not the stained glass, the buildings, the robes, the candles, the pews, the hymns, or whatever else. Jesus Christ is Christianity. He is the faith. He is grace. He is all things. It's all about him. And when the gathering came running out of the tombs, they all fell at his feet. They begged for mercy. Jesus Christ is God. And the devils are terrified of him. All you got to remember is he washes away all sin. He holds you. He is God. He has called you. He has forgiven your sins. He's indwelt you by his spirit. He stands by your side. You're held in his hand. And no man could pluck you out. That means you can't pluck yourself out either. And and he holds you and he's given you all eternity in his name by grace, through faith, by belief in the Son of God, the Lord Jesus Christ. I don't need to fear anything. He has forgiven. He's forgotten. He holds. It's all about him. Christianity is a person, not a system. It's, it's about him, not what you do about him. That's what I would believe. Thanks for listening to this episode of the Almost False podcast. If you have more questions, I have great news for you cuz we recorded for about 4 hours and all that footage is available if you want to check it out. The beginning of our conversation lasted about 45 minutes and we did a deep dive on the occult side of martial arts and how that was brother Matthew's gateway into the world of mysticism. There's also a separate section where I asked him about his time doing street magic and he revealed which popular magicians use real magic for their tricks. I was shocked when I heard this and I think you'll be too. Finally, we had an amazing conversation in the after show and talked about spiritual warfare and a couple encounters that him and his dad unknowingly had with angels. I promise you that I won't disappoint you cuz that's just a little sample of what we talked about. And after all of this, if you still have questions, Brother Matthew said that he'd be happy to do a follow-up Q&A regarding this interview. You'll find a link to watch the videos and to submit your questions in the description of the episode. Thanks for listening all the way through. Have a nice day and stay blessed.