Transcription
My faith shapes my views on issues like abortion and the LGBTQ plus rights. Well, I know um people who are of the LGBTQ community who are Christians and there are churches that um are available that they would welcome them into the church to uh be married if that's what they were comfortable with. I don't think most LGBTQ people want to get married in a church, but um you know, you can't go in and say like uh that this church because a lot of the people that attend this church that are gay that they're not Christians because it's like >> in the Bible. >> Well, we're all sinners and we're all wretched. And the thing is is um you know God made everybody. And if these if people who are you know trans or LGBTQ are um you know happen to be uh Christians. It's you know God loves them too.
>> Yeah. But it's in the Bible and someone has to be responsible. I I'm surprised I don't have my Bible with me. I bring it everywhere. Someone has to be held responsible for keeping God's word. Yeah. >> God's word. And if you I have friends that are LGBTQ as well that struggle with loving men or women and because they want to belong to a church, they go more for the opposite sex so they could be part of the church.
>> End of the day, it's sin. And so it's like if you're using like if you're normalizing it and allowing it and like they've made sin into like a whole identity, right? Where it's like it leads people to like destruction or it's hurting people. like love is not like >> but they don't feel like it's a sin.
Um, okay. So, like let's just like flip the perspective. For instance, um, starting off, I'm not going to put any judgment on those who are attracted to the same sex. Just going to start like that.
>> Would you allow liars to get married in the church?
>> Just yes [laughter] or no? [snorts]
>> Yes.
>> Would you allow adulterers who were in the past adulterers, now they've probably been cleansed, would you allow them to get married in the church?
>> Yeah, probably not. if they were saying I'm going to continue to to be an adult either way. Either way, would you allow them to get married in the church?
>> Yeah.
>> So, >> I mean, not I don't know about either way. I don't know if as a pastor if I mean would you if if someone wanted to get married and they're saying like let's say the >> of course no cuz if like if they're first off if they're actually going to commit to somebody and they're committing to someone in front of all their loved ones then of course they should leave that life behind. But the point is they still committed those sins and yet they're being allowed to get married in the church.
>> That shall not lie with mankind as with womankind. It is abomination.
>> I'm so happy you're looking at that. But like just going back to what I'm trying to say though like >> we have these two sins that we can both agree are our sins. That's how we see that's how we view lying and adult adultering. Like and there's other ones too that I also can go on with but like that for us we see those sins and yet we allow them in our minds to get married in the church. So whether you see gay marriage as a sin or not >> that's something >> they should still be allowed to get married in the church cuz even though you see as a sin >> there's other sins that are allowed to be seen in the church. Why can't why can't they? And why as a person who is a child of God, you're not God, you're a child of God. Why do you get to say whether or not someone gets to get married in the church?
>> It's what God says. It's in his word in the Bible.
>> God says don't lie. God says not to steal.
>> God doesn't say if you lie, you can't get married. God says a man shouldn't lie with a man and a woman should lie with a man, it is abomination and you will burn in hell.
>> I was going to say in God's word, no sin is greater than another. Mhm.
>> If you stole a penny and it was not yours and you were allowed to get married in the church. Now in 2025 in America, there has been so much controversy about the gay and lesbian community like it's no like it's the biggest sin. But is it not equivalent to you stealing that penny?
>> That's God's word. or a murderer.
>> I was going to say the same thing. If you killed somebody, I'm pretty sure >> you guys would still say they can get married in the church.
>> And we're here all for the same cause. We say that we love God, >> but the division that has been created by man, by humans, >> would God be pleased with that? Yeah, I totally agree there, but I totally agree because like to choose God or not to choose God is free will. We all have free will. And for you to say that, you know, this is the way it has to be, I hate to say it, but that's a little self-righteous, sister. You know, like everybody has free will. Everyone has the free will. People have free will to choose God or not, not choose God. And people need to be able to have that free will.
[laughter] We shouldn't be allowed to get married in a church. It's not a Christian church.
>> The question is like how should we be allowed in the church? And it's like if we're holding to the word of God and we're basing our lives and our decision off of that, then it's like in the word, it is clear that it's like a man and a female and it's like yes, of course, love and like everyone has a freedom of choice, but there's also consequences and >> and God is the ultimate >> and he's the one for sure. There are a lot of churches that are extremely it's not for me to judge what they're going to do. Well, if we're not judging, we're not talking about saying whether or not I'm so sorry. No, go ahead.
>> You are judging cuz you're saying whether or not they're allowed to do it. Yes or no. You should say for me, I'm a no. I would not get married to church if I was gay. That's fine cuz that is your decision.
>> I'm basing it off the word of God where basically it's like um if that's if that's what we're saying like, oh, should the church allow it? Then it's like if they're a real church like because you could be a church and not and not actually Christian, right? So like if you're actually a church then you're basing your like your dis your values off of the word of God. So anywhere else they could do whatever else. I'm not talking about the heart. I'm talking about >> the Vatican said it's okay for the Vatican. The Pope says it's okay for LGBT to get married in a church. So the Vatican is the devil. The antichrist the antichrist we are in the we are in the last days. So it doesn't matter if it's this church on the outside. It's like it's know them by the fruits.
>> Well, I bet if we're talking about politics and religion, >> you can't have love and compassion on sin. Like >> we keep we keep interrupting you. Please.
>> If we're talking about politics and religion, one thing that I think is great about the, you know, the origin of the separation of church and state gets confused. So a lot of people think that it's um to keep the church out of the state, but originally it was I forget maybe Mayberry Baptist Church, but in the founding this was a church that was afraid. I mean, we escaped um the you know, king ruling the church and taking over. So, you know, the it was the church needing a commitment that the state would stay out of it. And ti traditionally or typically and even still, one can argue that that the right or the republicans um fight more for religious freedom. And I do believe that's a protection because we can argue all day, you know, about our opinions on, you know, and I and I believe that, you know, when when Christ says, you know, all all sin separates us from God. I do think that biblically different sins have different weight. And, you know, a a man wanting to marry a child, you know, I mean, that that should have different weight than something else.
um >> in some current cultures that's allowed, >> right? And and I would I would hope that that would be challenged. And I've worked in cultures um that there's so much oppression of women and awful stuff going on with children all over, but but specifically with the freedom of religion. I mean, we do have churches that will marry LGBT. We have churches that won't. Um, and I'm grateful and I hope that we do vote to protect religious freedom and the protection of the church from not being taken over by the state. And I again I do see a lot of Marxism in progressive liberalism more and more. And the one of the tenants is to eradicate the church, is to eradicate the nuclear family, is to radicalize women, is you know there's so many things that I'm seeing um come straight from Marxist ideology and and I don't and in in the guise of um what could be >> misconstrued as even Christianity and I was kind of influenced by that and then you know I've kind of seen differently And that's why I've sort of moved in this direction more than in the past.
>> When it comes Thank you. when it comes to these topics, I actually have a deep understanding of where you all are coming from now, your individual spiritual self, I don't know. That's between y'all and the Lord. But what you're fundamentally saying as a believer, cuz I think when people disagree with us and we automatically assume, we're not having a dialogue. We're allowing the enemy to keep us in a stronghold of our own limited understanding. And I pray for anybody in the circle who is in agreement with that. Myself included. I do believe and people are going to be probably upset with me that are conservative Christians and people probably going to be upset with me that are liberal Christians. But I got to speak my truth, right? So I do believe that there has been and people might sound it find it shocking but I can't be on this platform and not speak from the heart that there has been a bit of a not even a bit an agenda right that is not in alignment with the word of God. Okay. Now, I cannot say 100% that because the Bible has been around and there's pages missing and all this type stuff that it's 100% cuz there's a lot of things I've read in the Bible, although that's why I choose the the book I choose to align my life with that has been deeply disturbing to me and that I did not agree with. And it's so wild to me that we go so hard for a book that most of us have not even read in totality. Let's keep it 100. So that's one thing. That being said, I can not agree with something but still advocate for somebody's humanity.
>> I cannot agree with something and I can say I don't think that certain things should be taught to kids in school. As a Christian, as a woman, as a teacher, I also don't think there should be church and state. So everybody could be upset at me. I just I don't agree with it. None of it. Okay? But at the end of the day, we are not God. And I think that the issue, a deeper issue for conservatives and liberals is to say, "I don't agree with that." And to still be able to love someone past that, to compartmentamentalize. I have a lot of liberal beliefs. I have a lot of conservative beliefs. I'm for the kingdom.
>> Amen.
>> I love all y'all, but I'm not dying on a heel for none of y'all. I'm here for the Bible. You disagree with the Bible. That's not >> the Bible. Like, if you don't I don't believe I've ever said I disagree with the Bible. I said out of my truth cuz I'm not going to sit up here in front. I've actually read things in the Bible that disturbed my spirit and I went and I prayed for it. If I didn't believe in it and I have nothing to prove to you. If I didn't believe in it, I wouldn't have turned to God and said, "God, can you help me with this? I want to understand this." There's also the old if you because if you want to get into it, we can. There's also the Old Testament. So that's a different covenant, right? So that so that's a totally different thing. I'm very very capable, able, permittable, and prepared to have this discussion in a biblical test uh text if you'd like.
>> Very capable. And I'm capable to learn too. What I am saying is that from a biblical sense, there are things I do not agree with. I'm actually agreeing with y'all to an extent. But what I'm saying is I still believe in someone's humanity. So if you want to go get married in a church, >> that's none of my business. That's between that church. If another church doesn't want to marry someone, that's none of my business. They have that free will.
>> Yeah.
>> And I think probably what's being discussed or could be discussed is um when the state intervenes in the church and maybe mandates or um restricts a church on their belief based on that like we should I think have freedom. We can whether we as Christians believe what they're choosing. that's we have the freedom to believe that or or for example when the state comes in um and mandates that nurses have to practice an abortion. I mean I think that's when >> you know where we have conflict with the freedom of someone's religion >> and the state and you know I think our government is based on Judeo-Christian I mean our law is based on on the biblical law and um people might want to um try to avoid that but but it's true. Um, and you know, that's quite a challenge, but we have to protect people. I mean, if there were not laws against murder, if there were not laws, you know, or pedophilia or things and and I'm seeing more and more >> um or children in, you know, with surgeries or parents' rights or I mean, it's getting muddier and muddier. There is a clear God-given definition of what it means to be a woman.
>> I choose not to answer. [laughter]
>> Yeah. I think made in the image of God. Um, >> and >> you know, God, the the name for God is not gender specific, though he I believe I mean, Christ is male. Um, but I also think that God um maybe identifies as father and I'm not offended by the gender roles and sexes and the the intelligent design um that God's made in all of his creation. Um, and I think that Jesus was the ultimate liberator of women in history. Um, never was there [snorts] were women treated like they were fully worthy and equal but not the same as men. And um, I know that like the women submit to your husbands. I don't know why people intentionally leave out the rest of that where it says and husbands treat your w your wife as though the church which Christ died for >> you know so he God does design you know, if there was not this um design of feminine and masculine in nature and if if all of nature decided to just switch up or deny its its created uh image we wouldn't have nature anymore we wouldn't have food, we wouldn't have things would just kind of fall apart. So, I I don't think that uh I don't think that liberal feminism or prog super progressive feminism um is is is healthy. But I think that liberated women or what Christ did to make it clear and go against all of the world and change everything in um clarifying who women are in his image. And biblically, according to the Bible, God made Adam and for a help meat, he took Adam's rib and made a woman for his mate. And as far as what we're doing now, is this all created by man? Is man saying it's okay that if I decide I was born a female with a female anatomy of vagina or ovaries whatever and I decide I'm having those removed and have surgery and and take hormones and have breasts to become a man does that say according to man on earth am I a man So, are you done, Miss?
>> I'm done.
>> I would just say flat out, and again, somebody gonna be mad, but that's all right. In Jesus name, we gonna be all right.
>> Um, I do not believe that trans women are women. I believe that they are trans women. I believe they should be respected as human beings. I I believe that they have the right to live their truth and not, you know, I can't even if I don't understand or agree and I've been on platforms much like this and I've spoke then and I've gotten educated by people in in the LGBTQIA community and I appreciate that dialogue. I still hold true to my convictions. I know a lot of people that are progressive, they don't like that sentiment. I also know there's a lot of people on both sides that will not speak that sentiment publicly because they don't want to be cancelled and there's been such a aggressive overturning and shutting down of anyone who thinks that.
>> Um, that's why I said I feel like some of the energy and with you guys are coming from is because you all feel that as well perhaps. Um, but that being said, there is such a thing as science and before it was cool I had a gender studies degree and everybody was like what job are you ever going to get? I questioned the same thing too. was one of my degrees. Um, now it's very relevant. And in that time, we learned that there is a difference between gender identity and sex. Your gender is how you identify yourself, how you feel, how you want to express yourself in life. Maybe even having to do with whom you choose to love or not love, right? But your sex are your X and your Y chromosomes. And no matter what, that does not change. So while somebody may choose that they want to have a change of certain things or take hormones which is their decision for their body >> that does not to me make them a biological woman if they want to be lived out as a woman I think within uh the respect of respecting their humanity. We should respect it. Do I think it should begin to infringe upon other people where they're getting cancelled and stuff because they don't agree? Absolutely not. And I think it's gone too far. And I feel like we in my opinion, and not trying to upset y'all, but I'm just have to be honest. We lost a contest to somebody who I don't feel like was the best, but it's because of nothing that was even going on on that side. I feel like it's because this is something that nobody really wants to talk about. And to other people, it looks crazy.
>> I don't know why you're doing that. And I'm actually agreeing with what you're saying.
>> Heard anybody else speak in like the whole time we were here.
>> Okay. So, let me So, to wrap this up, I will just say this. So for me in regards to the the the woman part, right, I do I don't like that women are being be because of, you know, advocating for one community who have no problem lifting up seeing as menrators or baby carriers or we can't call ourselves women or like there's a trans person that gets women of the year. And I don't think that that should offend people. Why can't trans women be trans women and women be biological women? Because we are the cradles of life and that that's >> in the Bible. God's word is the truth.
>> I'm literally saying that you're so ignorant and you're so filled with what I in the name of Jesus.
>> So the thing is the thing is I'm literally agreeing with you. So this so your reaction says more about you than anything I'm saying.
>> Well Jesus died for our sins. So we're all saved. That's my point being loved everyone.
>> My point being is I do feel like there has been an attack since the dawn of man on biological women. And I don't think anybody's talking about it, especially on the progressive side. And I don't understand why it's so wrong to say a trans woman, if that's what they choose to be, we can uplift them. We can protect them as humans irregardless of what we believe religious wise without suppressing real women.
>> Yeah.
>> And we aren't battling flesh and blood like scripture says. We're battling powers and principalities. Amen. Yes.
>> And and the enemy came to a woman and his and Christ God says your seed I will put a seed in you that will crush your the head of Satan. So Satan has his >> we are like kind of number one enemy. So of course he wants to humanity and we are the brothers joy >> and women should be protected and that doesn't mean I don't have trans friends and that doesn't mean I don't love them with all of my heart or or you know seek to condemn them. I would encourage them to turn to Christ for whatever it was regardless of we all have sin like we've talked about but but as far as protecting women and [clears throat] >> the political agenda but the spiritual the the demonic agenda to destroy womanhood is >> on full force and maybe it is because we are >> nearing well of every day every moment we're nearing his return.
>> Praise Jesus. Yeah.
>> Well, of course it's like loving them, [laughter] but I don't think we should affirm like if someone wants to identify as a trans woman, like that person is still not a woman like biologically. And and then it's like then you're affirming their delusions cuz it's like I could be like I'm a unicorn and you guys could only identify me as a unicorn, you know? It doesn't like you can't like legalize it and make everyone else also like come in alignment with your delusion, you know? And then then what they're allowed to go into like uh women's sports when they're clearly a man, you know, which I don't agree with that either to use like like saying delusion like we can we can say things that like I too agree. First off, all of the trans women that I know, they don't identify themselves as straight up woman. They say I'm a trans woman. So I don't even think they themselves would try to crush um females like that. But then when you go and you say they're delusion, the connotation of that word doesn't feel godly, >> doesn't feel like something that a Christian would say or should say cuz that's automatic judgment. You are judging them for their decisions. And again, like we said before, it's not your body. That is a conversation that they are supposed to have with their maker, you know, and whether you agree with that or not, all you can do is show them love. You don't have to encourage it. I would encourage people to do that.
>> Saying like then we shouldn't like as a society then like like oh then this is transgal. I really do agree.
>> And I'm not saying oh specifically they're you know it's just okay.
>> It's just like it's just like like the wordings too and like of course I'm not trying to like attack you or anything. It's just like when I hear certain words like it's like something that like it triggers me cuz like I have so many friends. They're so powerful. Like I I'm a dancer. That's my profession, which means I am all over the LGBTQ community. I see trans women. I see >> I was in hip-hop dance. So, it's like I told her to say it's just like I I want to protect them because like I I love them. I don't look at them as like, oh, like they are a a pariah in our society because they have chosen to do something. That's not that's not a conversation that I should even have any say in, you know?
>> Right. And we're not walking in their shoes so that we don't get it. Yeah. idea that well I think the conversation to bring it to politics then is just and why all another reason why I've had to kind of pick aside is when laws are infringing on our rights as women >> then all of a sudden well I have then I have to get involved or pick a side to say hey no I've been assaulted in a non-gendered bathroom >> you know >> and and a bathroom has and I've and yeah victimized by men many times in horrible ways and my spaces our spaces are sacred. So to have to defend that means I have to align unfortunately with one side and and this was just something I don't think we expected. I mean, some of these radical things are happening so quickly um that yeah, we're sort of forced >> forced to fight these things that I just can't believe we're having >> we deserve that protection as the you know the physically weaker sex but I mean in my personal opinion we're spiritual beings having a temporary physical experience whether whether it's as a man or woman or you know transgender. Um, so like to me our physical experience is temporary. Ultimately, we're spiritual beings. But I'm a former former therapist and I work with a lot of people from the LGBT community, trans people. And you know what? They suffer from incredible anxiety, depression, suicidal ideiations, drug abuse. I mean, like >> I mean like I felt tormented for them. You know what I mean? I can't say, "Oh, this is wrong and therefore you need to go to church and repent or whatever." You know what I mean? These are real issues that people want you to commit suicide. You know what I And like it's not for me to judge >> them and say, you know what I mean? You're struggling because you're not a Christian. You know what I mean? Like what a horrible thing to say to somebody who wants to kill themselves. You know what I mean? No, I think then it's not like of course it's like the humanity part where like a lot of them have like have dealt with like really deep trauma and then so I think >> maybe it's like us like addressing more of that side instead of like you know instead of like normalizing like the dysfunction. It's like, okay, like there's a deeper thing that is going on that like we could like delve into.
>> Jesus came to love. Jesus loved everyone.
>> Jesus hung out with all sinners. [clears throat] He loved everyone. And that's our job is to love everyone, but also to keep the word of God. So we are to love everyone, but also keep the word of God. And this is the problem. Like people are getting away.
>> We keep it among other people. We don't put it on other people. word.
>> People like to twist God's word and to make it their own just because they don't agree with it or disagree with it. But God made this book. Whether you think it came from white men or the Old Testament, they don't agree with the New Testament. God did this and that's his word. But Jesus loved everyone. So we are to love everyone. I have tons of trans friends and gay friends. I love them to death. We are all sinners. Everybody is a sinner, but a in a different way. Jesus was the only perfect one. He was the only perfect one. So we are all sinners whether you know. So we are to love each other. It doesn't matter what kind of sin we do, but we also have to respect God's word and keep this.
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