Transcription
Here now recognizes a gentleman from Colorado, Mr. Crow. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Thank you, um, Chairman Kaine, Secretary Hegsth, and Mrs. McDonald. You're doing a great job today, Mrs. McDonald. Secretary Hegsth, we we have a lot of things in common. In fact, our careers started the same way. We were both infantry officers. We were both platoon leaders. We both deployed our platoon to combat in a counterinsurgency environment. There are very few better leadership training grounds than that experience. And it's that experience that I want to transport us back into—back to Lieutenant Hegsth and Lieutenant Crow.
There are a lot of things that make a leader and that make a unit effective. Would you say that unit cohesion is important?
Unit cohesion amongst many is very important.
Yes, sir. It's an important element, and making part of that is making sure that all members of your unit felt included in that team.
Correct. Far more important than every member of that unit felt capable to do the mission and united in that mission, but that they were included and felt part of the team as well.
I wouldn't use the word inclusion, sir, but yes, they were cohering as a team.
Yes. And that you reduce tension and infighting and points of tension between your platoon members so that you can focus on the mission. That was a part of the regular job.
Absolutely. That's why I've said that "our diversity is our strength" is the single dumbest phrase in military history. And words are—unity is our strength, and unity amongst members despite differences of backgrounds, race, whatever that is.
I agree with you on that—together on a mission, and words—part of that is—words are important, and setting the tone is important.
Correct. When you're a leader, all aspects of leadership, mostly leading by example. Did you ever tell them your political affiliation? Did you ever tell your platoon members your political affiliation?
We certainly discussed lots of topics, and I'm sure my political affiliation…
Did you ever ask them theirs?
No. Their political affiliation was never a concern to me because it's important that everybody feel included and that people weren't excluded.
Correct. That would be…typical. I'm sure my platoon contained Republicans, Democrats, and independents, and I had no idea what their affiliation was.
Okay, that was actually my next question. So, I appreciate you answering that. You led your unit in a in a counterinsurgency environment, and you interacted with civilians, correct?
Interacted with members of the civilian population in Iraq.
Sure. And you were in fact a COIN instructor, counterinsurgency instructor.
Correct. In Afghanistan in 2011 and 2012, I was the senior counterinsurgency instructor. And you signed off on a manual. There's actually a counterinsurgency manual that you signed off on and helped create, and your name is on that manual.
Correct. Uh, we were a part of creating a lot of content at the COIN academy.
Yes. Do you remember this portion of the manual? It says, "If you if you've killed two innocents, you've set yourself back more than you've moved forward." Do you still agree with that?
I would have to take a look at the manual, but obviously no one in warfare is seeking to kill innocents.
Okay. Because it's important to show why we're different from the enemy. Because we're not the enemy, right? We're different from our adversary. Would you agree with that? We have different morals and different values.
Uh, we are not the enemy, sir. We have different morals and we have different values. The enemy… We have a code, a uniform code of military justice. The answer to that is inside our formations…
You're not trying to compare us to al-Qaeda and ISIS, are you? We're different.
I know the code of the United States military and army that I signed up for.
You can't tell me whether we're different. You're not willing to say we're different.
Of course, we're different.
Okay. Thank you. It's absurd. That's why I'm trying to reconcile the fact that we learned many of the same lessons as platoon leaders about unit cohesion, making sure that people were included, that we didn't ask people's political affiliation, that we interacted respectfully with civilian populations, that what a leader says matters, that the tone you set matters, that we are not the enemy, that we are different from them, we lead differently, we have different morals. How can I reconcile that experience and those lessons learned from Lieutenant Hegsth to now Secretary Hegsth, where you say things like what you just saw here—making us equivalent on the same standards as our adversaries, doing the same things that ISIS and al-Qaeda would do? How can you possibly reconcile that?
I can't. And just the other day down at Fort Bragg, in our beloved 82nd Airborne Division, sitting there while we politicize the military and pull our paratroopers into politics, booing elected officials, booing politicians with whom we agree or disagree. It's antithetical to our values. And you, sir… gentlemen, time's expired, Chair, and I recognize a gentle…