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The Devil's Den State Park double murder suspect is saying in court he didn't do it. Andrew Man entered his plea in an Arkansas courtroom today. Today was the day that the charges were read to him and he pled not guilty.
This is where the hard part begins and the long walk begins to get this case to justice. Prosecutors in Arkansas say they have a strong case against the now former elementary school teacher who they say is the man who stabbed and killed a mom and a dad who he didn't know, who were just out for a weekend hike with their young daughters in a state they had just moved to, an alleged random killing.
"You guys are representing Man. Are you able to talk to us briefly? Any comments? What happened?" Man's attorneys were silent. They didn't even acknowledge the media outside the courtroom today asking them for comment. What this case could look like going forward, what Man's court case could look like now that it appears he is going to try to fight these charges.
We're on the case presented by Law and Crime. I'm Chris Stewart.
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A defendant pleading guilty in one of their first court appearances almost never happens, even if that defendant is facing the type of evidence that prosecutors in Arkansas say they have on him. That defendant is Andrew James Man, and I'll have how prosecutors responded to his not-guilty plea that he entered in a courtroom today in Northwest Arkansas.
This is an image of Man from his first court appearance a couple of weeks ago. Today, cameras were not allowed to shoot him as he appeared with a public defender by his side for the first time. Man is being held without bond in a jail in Washington County, Arkansas, in the northwest part of the state, about 2 hours from Tulsa, Oklahoma.
This is video of when he was first booked into the jail in Washington County after his arrest in Springdale, Arkansas, back on July 30th. Prosecutors believe they have a strong case against Man. They said when police interviewed him, he confessed to at least some extent to these double murders, but they haven't gone more into detail about specifically what Man said during that interview.
Since Man's arrest, law enforcement from states far away are looking into whether he has any connection to cases that have gone unsolved. Cold cases that detectives now say they're exchanging notes with detectives in Arkansas about. I'll get more into that in just a moment.
In Arkansas, Man is accused of killing Kristen and Clinton Brink. Family members and also law enforcement say this couple died heroes, allegedly at the hands of Andrew James Man. The family had just moved to Arkansas from South Dakota. Clinton, the dad, was going to start his new job as a milk delivery driver the following Monday, had he not been killed during a hike with his family in this park.
Police say this is a picture of Man dressed in black, wearing fingerless gloves, armed with a knife in Devil's Den State Park 5 days before his arrest. Police say that Man first attacked the dad, Clinton, and in that moment, Kristen rushed her children to safety, saving their lives. This couple was hiking with their seven and nine-year-old daughters. Those girls were able to get to a visitor station. They were able to call authorities about the attack. They also were able to get police key information so they could put a description together of what this attacker looked like.
After their mom got them to safety, though, she returned to try and help her husband, and that is when she lost her life. Witnesses allegedly saw Man run from the park. There was blood on his face, they say, and he got into a four-door black sedan that was later determined to be a Kia, and he zoomed off. This triggered a 5-day manhunt in Arkansas. And Devil's Den State Park, by the way, is still closed to this day because of what happened on the day the Brinks were killed.
5 days after their deaths, though, police tracked Man specifically through that Kia that he was driving to a barber shop a half hour north of Devil's Den State Park in Springdale, Arkansas. Now, this is video from the barber shop that was put out to the media of Man actually sitting in the chair getting a haircut. You can see that he has a lot of hair over his face. The barber said that she believes that he was trying to keep his face covered. He asked her not to cut anything off the top of his head. He also wouldn't give his name when he first showed up. About 4 minutes into that haircut is when detectives walked in the door.
Now, we spoke to people at the barber shop, and they said that they heard that detectives asked Man if the car in the parking lot outside was his, and he said yes. Here's video of Man walking into the barber shop, and you can see that dark car there does match the description of the vehicle that police put out when he was on the run.
Here is what the barber who was cutting his hair said about Man when she spoke to News Nation. "As I was examining his hair, his his scalp looked very dry and matted." "Interesting. Did he did he seem surprised that the cops were there for him or did because we've now heard the police have said that he has admitted to it that he said yes I did this. Did he seem surprised when they got there?" "Um, so the I believe it was a detective, uh, I don't remember his name. Uh, he came in asked, you know, whose car that was and, you know, he had his head down the whole time. Um, and he really didn't, you know, say anything until they like, I believe it's your car."
Now you can see Man here in his first booking photo. Appears to have a haircut that wasn't finished. But certainly, what sticks out to us is just the look on his face. It is one that we found to be incredibly menacing, and that made it even more shocking when we started to learn more about his background.
So, what I'll say is, is he just recently moved here and had had um gotten a job to work at a local school here. Man might have been getting a haircut to get ready for the school year, which was set to start the week after his arrest. And he had just been hired to teach elementary school children in Springdale, Arkansas. Here's a now-deleted post of Man being welcomed by the school where he was going to be working. The school district in Springdale told us that Man never had contact with kids or families because he was just hired and the school year hadn't begun yet.
But we did go down a path of trying to piece together Andrew Man's background. And it turns out that he had been hired by at least five different school districts just in the last 3 years. At one of them in Plano, Texas, he was only there for 4 days and had just been hired before the school year, but he left to go teach in Oklahoma. But those five school districts, we counted, there was the one in Arkansas, there were two in Oklahoma, both near Tulsa, and then there were two near Dallas. In three of those schools, he left with the same excuse, which was he was resigning to then take another job out of state, except for one school.
It was at this school in Flower Branch, Texas. This is a now-deleted 2022 Facebook post that was welcoming Mr. Man to teach fourth grade. In the post, he talked about how excited he was to teach kids that year. Now, it was at this elementary school that parents are now telling us that they thought Man, frankly, was a creep. One parent called him standoffish. And on Facebook, she said that he would reportedly treat the girls differently than the boys at school. There's a dad that even told the New York Post that Man allegedly put an elementary-age girl on his lap and asked her to be his girlfriend. The school district said it did do an internal investigation into Man and they found that he was not inappropriate, but he did show favoritism. He was allowed to resign and did not return to that school the next year.
One thing that has stood out to us since we started covering this story and piecing together Andrew James Man's background is just how much of a mystery his background appears to be and how often he moved around. You might remember police actually called him James Andrew Man at first, and then about 24 hours later updated his name to Andrew James Man. I put his name into truthfinder.com, and nothing came up. And that says something because Truthfinder rarely can't find information on people. At Law and Crime, we partner with Truthfinder and we use it to get details on the people who are involved in our stories. But hey, even if you don't work in true crime, it can be a great tool to help you get some peace of mind. It's one of the largest public records search services in the United States. And with a paid subscription service, you get access to unlimited reports about almost anyone. And right now, you can get 50% off your first month of confidential background reports. Just go to truthfinder.com/lc.
Man does not have much of a digital footprint, which for us raises a red flag because we often see a lot of people post on social media and have a life online, even when they're accused of crimes like Man is. We did find, though, Man's Facebook, which appears he hasn't touched maybe since college. Here he is as a high schooler in a southwestern suburb of Chicago, where he grew up. Now, we know he left Illinois after high school. And a childhood friend who we talked to told us that Man's mom was from Oklahoma, which may explain why he went to Oklahoma and that part of the country. That friend also told us that Man grew up in a blue-collar neighborhood southwest of Chicago. This was a neighborhood that was home to a lot of union families and, surprisingly to us, a lot of police officers. He seemed to have a regular childhood, though. He played Little League baseball, had a good family. We were told his dad actually coached the baseball team.
But then at some point after high school, Man cut off a lot of the people he was close to. And it's still unclear why. "What I know people that were really close to him, he like kind of they like all lost contact with him. Like I don't know what happened honestly, but they said, yeah, like, you know, uh, he ended up blocking me or something. And that's what I've heard." So, that friend also said that Man had a notorious issue with anger and he also struggled with girls. Now, even though Man said he graduated college from Oklahoma State, his Facebook lists a college in Illinois, which means he may have hung around the Midwest for some time after high school.
I bring that up because a 2020 cold case out of Wisconsin, which is just a couple hours' drive from Chicago, is now being looked at for having a possibility that Man was involved. I want to be clear, though, at this point. Detectives tell us all of this is preliminary. They're just exchanging notes, and it's unclear whether Andrew James Man had a connection to the case I'm about to talk about in Wisconsin. I did talk to a detective, though, at the Sock County Sheriff's Office there. It's near Madison, and he talked about the unsolved murder of John Schmutzer. John was 24 years old when he was stabbed to death inside Devil's Lake State Park on October 14th, 2020. Devil's Lake State Park is the busiest state park in Wisconsin, and it is a hot spot in the fall, specifically in October, because a lot of people travel from out of state to go see the leaves change.
Police say at 11:38 in the morning, someone killed Schmutzer on a trail called the Grotto Trail. It was on the south side of Devil's Lake State Park. Detectives say there were no pictures of a suspect, but multiple people saw someone who is considered the person of interest to this day in this unsolved murder. And that person of interest has been dubbed "the runner" because they were seen frantically running through the park. Police say they don't have any pictures of the runner, but they do have a description: a 5'10" white man who is wearing all dark clothing and was seen running frantically through the park at the time of Schmutzer's murder in October 2020. Detectives do not have the murder weapon in that case.
Now, this isn't the only cold case that law enforcement has at least called police in Arkansas to see if there is any connection to Andrew James Man. Vermont State Police reached out about the October 3rd, 2023, murder of 77-year-old Honore Fleming. She was a former college dean who entered a hiking trail in Castleton, Vermont, around 4:00 in the afternoon. She was found dead at 4:30. She had a gunshot wound to her head. That case is still unsolved. This is the sketch that Vermont State Police put out almost two years ago. They also put out a description from witnesses, and they say the person of interest was described as a male standing about 5'10", having short red hair, and he was wearing a dark gray t-shirt and carrying a black backpack. Again, in this case, it is unclear whether Andrew James Man has any connection to it. Police say there are no known links at this point, and to our understanding, based on the research we've done, Man doesn't have any ties to New England.
"Okay, you guys are representing Man. Are you able to talk to us briefly? Any comments? What happened?" Man's public defenders refused to even acknowledge the media outside of the hearing today. The public wasn't let into the hearing, neither was the media. A judge put in a motion to deny that. The lead prosecutor in the case did give a brief statement. He also said he's expecting a gag order moving forward. Here's part of what he said. "I anticipate a number of status hearings in this case. The next thing that will happen, you'll see on the docket, it's set as a status hearing. That'll be a chance for the lawyers and the court to convene and figure out where we were at in the proceedings. Um, this is where the hard part begins and the long walk begins to get this case to justice. And a lot of people don't realize it can take some time actually for justice, for trial, all that. This case will take longer than folks anticipate."
"Did you expect him to plead not guilty?" "Absolutely. Did he have any choice other than to plead not guilty?" "I don't know of a defense attorney in the United States that would allow a defendant in any felony, especially this felony, to allow their client to appear and plead guilty. The defendant has a right to a fair trial. And part of having a fair trial is seeing all of the discovery, seeing the case against him. And that's what's going to happen in the next days, weeks, and months."
Joining us now is a board-certified criminal defense attorney and a former homicide prosecutor, Josh Tomshek. Thank you, sir, for taking the time to be with us here on Law and Crime. Uh, today, Andrew Man pled not guilty in court. I think a lot of people knowing that prosecutors have said that they have uh a potential confession, DNA, the murder weapon, and yet here is a suspect pleading not guilty. Why would he plead not guilty if there's so many things that he's facing according to prosecutors?
Well, we have to remember that this is an initial court appearance where it's his first time in court. Almost always an individual is going to plead guilty. The only exception to that is if, for instance, someone's been a suspect in a case for a period of time, they may work out a pre-indictment or a pre-charge resolution where they show up with the idea that they're going to plead to that charging document. In all other cases, especially ones where they're seeking serious uh punishment, such as in a capital case, a defendant's going to plead not guilty at his first court appearance.
And this is a case where prosecutors have um they have not ruled out the death penalty and and they've kind of hinted that that's the direction they're going to go. What goes into making the decision? I mean, clearly this was a a brutal crime that they're accusing him of. Um, but what actually goes into the decision if you're a prosecutor of whether you're going to go for the death penalty in this case?
It really depends on the jurisdiction and where that charge is brought. There are, I think, 27 of our 50 states still have the death penalty on the books as of 2025. In those jurisdictions, all of them will have their statutory aggravating circumstances, things that make those crimes eligible for the death penalty. Contrary to what a lot of people think, not every homicide is eligible for the death penalty. There has to be an aggravating circumstance, such as a previous conviction for a crime of violence. If the crime involves a a minor under a certain age, or as in this case where you have two dead people. Anytime you have more than one person killed in a homicidal incident, that is almost always in all jurisdictions going to lead to a capital offense for which the state can seek the death penalty if they choose. The other big factor is whether or not they think they can prove it. It is less common in a close call case, one where the state thinks they may have difficulty proving the charge of first-degree murder for them to seek the death penalty as a punishment. But in circumstances where the evidence is strong, where you have a confession, where there's forensic evidence tying the person to the scene, where there's eyewitnesses, and where there's clear evidence of those aggravating circumstances, then in that case like that, a prosecutor is likely to file the death penalty.
And then how does that factor into how the case is tried or and I know that it does vary from state to state where in Florida you'll have a conviction and then it's like a whole other process begins of the of the penalty phase. Um, typically if it is a death penalty case, does that change how the regular trial would be playing out and just determining whether he's guilty of the crime?
Yeah, it does. And in most jurisdictions where you have the potential of the death penalty, we have to do what we call death-qualifying a jury. So in my home state of Nevada, our trials are in a capital case are broken into those two separate processes. The first where we call the the presentation of evidence, the trial phase. We used to call it the guilt phase. In that process, the state's trying to prove the charge of first-degree murder because if they don't, that individual is not eligible for the death penalty. If, in fact, they prove that the person is guilty of the crime of first-degree murder in a capital case, we would move essentially immediately into a second trial that we refer to as the penalty phase where they're presenting presenting the evidence of those aggravating circumstances I mentioned a moment ago, as well as the defense will then present mitigating circumstances, the things that they say should cause the jury not to want to inflict the the punishment of capital punishment, the death penalty. Um, so that process is very, it's kind of clunky. It's disjointed. It takes place over a longer period of time, but in order to set the stage for that, you have to death-qualify the jury. So, you have to have jurors that will consider all forms of punishment. They'll have to consider the death penalty. Doesn't mean they'll always impose it. In fact, if they say they would always impose the death penalty, they're not going to be eligible to serve on that jury. You need people that can consider the full range of punishment up to and including the ultimate punishment.
Uh, Andrew Man is going to be represented by a court-appointed attorney. Um, you on one side again, I mean, the state feels like they have a very strong case against him that they got the guy who did this. If you're a defense attorney, what's the strategy here in defending uh Andrew Man against some some pretty pretty strong pieces of evidence that prosecutors say that they have?
Yeah, I mean, the quick answer is it depends. Cases are fact-specific, and what you're trying to do in defending someone in those circum in those circumstances, and understand I've represented dozens of people that are facing capital punishment. Every case is different, and what you're trying to do in every case is different. In some circumstances, it isn't a question about who done it. The evidence, for instance, in a crime that's on video, we'll know who committed the crime. The question then becomes why? What level of homicide is it, and what the punishment should be, what the appropriate solution is for this crime that's happened. In some circumstances, we're fighting from the inception of the case to try to avoid a conviction because that evidence isn't there, or at least there's an articulable argument that it isn't. In other cases, we're literally just trying to save someone's life where the evidence is overwhelming of first-degree murder, but we don't think that the circumstances are such that that punishment should be imposed. In defending someone like that, our job is always to get them the best result possible within our ethical constraints. Um, so I don't know enough about Mr. Man's case to know what his potential defenses to the crime are or what his potential mitigation is related to his sentence. But I'm sure that the attorneys that are representing him will do everything in their power and within their ethical uh restrictions to make sure he gets the best defense possible.
How does a public defender and if you are if in Andrew Man's case he has said he doesn't have the money he was a school teacher to hire an attorney. What does how does the defense differ compared to whether he was, you know, I think of Shawn Colb's defense team, very different case, but he has this all-star lineup of defense attorneys compared to some of these suspects, these defendants who get the court-appointed attorney. When it comes to resources, how are they different?
That depends on a case-specific basis and a jurisdictional basis as well. So, you the the practical reality is, unlike what a lot of the public thinks, public defenders are lawyers. There are very, very, very good lawyers who are public defenders who have chosen that as a career path. The difficulty, and what I always talk to clients about, is when you get a public defender, you often don't get to choose who your lawyer is. You might get a very good lawyer for free and a lawyer who's working very hard in your case. You might get a lawyer who doesn't give the same effort or doesn't care as much. You don't get to choose. You are entitled to effective representation, and there's a standard for what that is. When you hire your own lawyer, you get to pick who that person is, and presumably, if you have the means to do it, you'll hire someone who you know because you can look at their resume, their track record, their pedigree, and determine is that the right person for me. Um, when we represent individuals who are indigent, oftentimes, and especially in a capital case, there are resources available for the retention of experts, investigators, people to fully develop the claim because when the uh state is seeking the ultimate punishment, our United States Supreme Court has said repeatedly that those cases are different, and the the standards are are very heightened there. So those people deserve adequate representation, and that involves all of those other individuals involved in a case, not just the lawyers.
And that kind of leads to my next question because I think in some cases you'll see like Brian Cobberger, for example, that went on for two years and his defense tried to exclude a lot of the evidence, and there was a ton of evidence against him that he was the one who did those murders in Idaho. And then you'll see cases, it just seems like the murder case is wrapped up very quickly in a matter of months. Why is there that difference between uh what could be a very long process compared to some that just seem to go very quickly?
Yeah, I think perhaps the cases that go quicker are ones where you're not seeing a notice of intent to seek the death penalty, where they're not seeking capital punishment. In an effective representation in a capital case where the state is seeking that punishment, you will almost always have a very long lead into that because there's so much investigation that has to be done, both in terms of defending the charge, filing those motions to suppress, raising self-defense, whatever the case may be in that fact-specific scenario, but you also have to look at all of the mitigation that is available to use on behalf of your client. So it can be things like multi-generational abuse, or the fact that they suffered uh significant head trauma as a child, or it can be that they were exposed to violence at a young age. That involves the collection of evidence records, such as school records, medical treatment records, any interaction with state systems. It involves interviewing a lot of individuals, basically everyone that you can get in touch with that could have something to share about the individual uh who's being accused of this horrific crime for which the state is seeking the worst punishment. So that process takes a long time. In other cases where there isn't going to be that penalty phase and you're arguing, for instance, this is a self-defense or it isn't, that case may get to trial a lot sooner because there isn't that much research that needs to be done into those categories. Um, but I think for for a murder case, for it to take years to get to to verdict, especially in a capital case, isn't at all unusual. And in fact, it's quite necessary.
And I know I'm I'm sure you've throughout your career, you get this question whenever we do a live show on Law and Crime. It's a question that always comes in um from the audience, which is just emotionally as a criminal defense attorney, when it comes to defending someone, and it's even someone in the case of of Andrew James Man where you look at all the evidence that's against him that he committed this terrible crime. Emotionally for you, what is it like as a criminal defense attorney having to argue on behalf of someone like that?
Um, a a lot of what we do is removing the emotion from things and making sure that the process is determined not based on sympathy and not based on emotion. In fact, jurors are instructed to do precisely that, to remove those aspects of things. It is a very emotionally heavy process for everyone. For the investigators, certainly for the victims and their families, for the uh attorneys representing the state or municipality that are presenting this evidence, and they have to show difficult photographs and deal with uncomfortable subjects. As a defense attorney, my job is to fight on behalf of individuals um behind the constitution that our whole criminal justice system is built upon. So um, my job is to give someone the best representation possible. It's very emotional from a lot of different angles, not just for me, but for everybody else in that process. Um, but a lot of what we do is kind of sterilizing and compartmentalizing to what is the evidence, what does it mean? And then ultimately trying to answer the question, what should be done about it?
Andrew Man is also being um or at least detectives in other states have reached out. We know of at least two, Wisconsin and Vermont, because they have cold cases that are open. And it's more just exchanging notes at this point of seeing whether or not he would be involved in another crime than uh beyond the one that happened in Arkansas. If he were, and he hasn't been, but if he was to be charged with a cold case that happened in another state, how would that potentially impact how the case plays out in Arkansas?
It could a lot of different ways depending on what that factual information is. So, one of the safety systems that we have in place in the criminal justice system is we're not allowed to present evidence in one case of something that happened in another case for fear that we'll convict someone in the first case based on what we know happened in the other case. However, there are exceptions to that. There are ways that evidence can become relevant and admissible um to show things like motive, lack of mistake, intent, common plan or scheme. Almost every jurisdiction has some type of other bad act evidence statute that potentially could allow that to come in. I think it's unlikely here. Um, but certainly the presumption is when you're investigating a serious homicide case, the best investigators in that jurisdiction are going to be the ones doing the investigation. And if they're doing their job, they're certainly going to reach out to that individual's past. It would be relatively uncommon to see a a crime if we believe the allegations as they have been levied and we've seen them in the media and in the charging document itself in this case, that an individual like that, that this is his first violent contact with someone. Um, that's unusual. It does happen. Um, but presumably they would want to go down where has this guy been before? What caused him to get into this position? And is there in fact some unsolved crime out there that fits the same criteria as this crime? Um, so I expect investigators to look like that. How it ultimately shakes out or impacts his prosecution in the state of Arkansas. Too early to tell.
And and lastly, I mean, you look at Andrew Man's mugshot and he has this menacing, evil look on his face, and it has been across social media, television since his arrest. How does this jury be impartial when they have likely seen that mugshot and have heard a lot of the information about what he is accused of uh in a trial that's received so much publicity, a case that's received so much publicity?
Yeah. I mean, that's the that falls within the responsibilities of the court and council at the time they come into the trial process. They need to flush out whether or not people have seen that mugshot, how it's impacted them, whether or not they can be fair, whether it raises any bias or impartiality. One of the things that we want to inquire of potential jurors is, is have they reviewed any or seen any media coverage of a case? Sometimes that can be very impactful. People like that probably shouldn't be on this jury. There's other juries where they can serve their civic duty that don't involve a case that they've read about or seen and developed a feeling one way or another. Um, that mugshot. I don't think it's unusual to see a mugshot where someone looks very angry or distressed or, as you put it, menacing. People typically don't do their hair and makeup and smile for mugshots. I would agree that that mugshot could potentially be a prejudicial thing, and although the way he appeared at the time he was taken into custody may potentially be relevant, if I'm representing him, I'm trying to keep that mugshot out of evidence. I don't want the jurors to see it because I don't want them to develop that ill feeling towards my client based on that one piece of evidence.
And we'll see how how this this case plays out. Um, very much at the beginning stages, but a not-guilty plea entered today. Josh Tomshek, great to have you on Law and Crime. Thanks for being with us.
My pleasure. Have a wonderful day.
Now that Andrew Man has entered this not-guilty plea, he is not expected to be back in court until November. That will do it for On the Case presented by Law and Crime. Subscribe to us on YouTube and Spotify. I'm Chris Stewart. We'll see you next time.
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