Transcription
I'm in peace, so now this is gonna be part three on the Magic Johnson and Isiah Thomas sit down, rejuvenation, revival of their relationship, which is a great thing for both of them. They both needed it, particularly Isiah Thomas, as will be shown at the end of their sit down or their interview. His interview of Magic, he certainly is the one who seemed to miss the relationship more, but I think they do, it will provide healing for the both of them.
Anyway, when we left off, I was talking about Dennis Johnson and my belief that you should be in the Hall of Fame, certainly over Tracy McGrady. Then the Johnson is a player that I will classify as an all-time great role player, and I've touched on this sentiment in the past. I've had people come and tell me that Scottie Pippen was not a role player, and they'll mention how Scottie led the Bulls to 50-plus wins after Jordan retired, and you know, the same jargon that people who never saw that era spew out of context. Of course, Dennis Johnson is a guy who won a championship in Seattle. To me, he's still a role player on an all-time great team. When I consider role players, I consider their role on an all-time great team. If you were not the lead guy, to me, you were a role player, unless you're on a team where you happen to share a partnership, like, for example, Shaq and Kobe was a partnership, Kevin Durant, Steph Curry, that's a partnership. Jordan and Pippen, to me, that clearly was not a partnership. Jordan was clearly the lead guy, clearly. And it, for me, for Pippen to have transcended that, he would have had to have had an elongated time period of dominance by himself. Kobe was able to dominate by himself, so I can't put him in that class.
But back to Dennis Johnson. To me, he certainly deserves to be in the Hall of Fame over or before T-Mac, but there are a litany of guys that I believe deserve to be in the Hall of Fame before T-Mac. Once again, nothing against him and none personal. I have love for the brother. I think he was a phenomenal scorer, but he couldn't even get out of the first round. And people will say, well, how could you? To me, for you to be a first-ballot Hall of Famer and you never won [ __ ], you had to have at least gotten out the first round off your exploits. You must have had a transcendent moment in the playoffs, at least one. He never had one. At least Grant Hill will get his team out of the first round. I was able to come back, do all that. Is because I had what you go through. I am watching persevere and learning how, how you describe that pain and how you just kept going and kept going. So then I said to myself, I gotta get.
Mm-hmm. And people forget in the aftermath of him throwing that ball away, which caused him that series against the Celtics, he also fell into the controversy of a Larry Bird where Dennis Rodman stated that if Larry Bird was black, he'd just be another player. And I said, Thomas, call that now. Down the line, Isiah Thomas has tried to, he tried to separate himself from his statement, which to me is consistent with a personality trait that he has, a passive-aggressive personality trait, where he tries to come off as a nice guy, but you know, if that's how he feels, is how he feels. It's not the truth, but if that's how I feel, that I feel sometimes hyper-competitive people have to tell themselves certain things so that they can get up to conquer. That's okay. But he did fall into a, a, he did fall into that chasm after that event in which he threw the ball away to Bird. There was a lot of sour grapes in the aftermath of that series. And I say all that to say that is why I believe it was so easy for Magic to believe that Isiah Thomas was involved in rumor spreading in regards to how Magic got HIV. No, you know what I'm saying? That's why we were in each other's lives. It was a reason. Right, right. I knew your struggle. That's why they say that, man. I know, I know. I was, but I was so hurt. Yeah, yeah. Well, he also didn't say anything because what else was he gonna say? I mean, he, the man choked. There's not much to save somebody choked. It's the same reason why Isaiah Thomas, that he didn't say anything to you after the '84 series against the Celtics. What is he gonna say? All right, brother, you choked. Just work out in the offseason. I just like you, I'd never made that mistake. That's what I'm saying. Your level of excellence is so high, and then we hold ourselves accountable. So we have, we don't need a coach to hold us accountable. That's who we were. But what people didn't realize, and also both of these players were coaches on the floor. So like Magic said, they didn't need a coach to hold them accountable. Realize about us is that we put so much. This, let me also say, LeBron James is a modern-day coach on the floor. There's no doubt about that.
All right, so now Magic and Isiah, I'm gonna talk about their wars in the NBA Finals from '88 and '89. I tell you, it's incredible that we were with the Chuck. Incredible, unbelievable. With each other, we both lost, when we both made mistakes, when we both, I said, if we gotta go to another level, right? And then we end up playing against each other. 1988, one thing for sure, they won't be talking to each other once that ball goes up in the air. Kyrie, they think the dude's dribbling now, but that was you already there. Yeah, that was you. When we on tour, some dude thought, Inca God, you said Michael Jordan's on record is saying that Isiah Thomas was the greatest player that he had to guard, oh, that he ever had to defend. The fact if you did, I let in the NBA crossover, the things you could do. You would, you had Tim Hardaway's crossover, Kobe, what he doing, Steph, what he doing? I was telling him, I said, man, stop, stop. I saw a dude do all of that. And then dinners against my Lakers on one lady who scores 25 points on one late in the fourth quarter. Well, actually, he scored 25 in the third quarter, and really, they should have won that series. Detroit was the better team, and it's just that the Lakers had much more experience, and they just understood how to win the finals, you know, much better than, then did the Detroit Pistons did at that time. That series is very, very menacing of a lot of these heavyweight boxing title defenses that Muhammad Ali had in the mid to late '70s, where you could tell he just beat his opponent on guile, you know, like when he fought, uh, when he fought Ron Lyle or a couple of other fights that he was able to steal down the stretch just because he understood how to win those type of fights. The Lakers won in '88 just because of their experience. They really were not the better team. And then on top of that, had Isiah Thomas not gotten hurt, I believe they were lost. I believe they would have lost in six anyway. We never really got a chance to, to have this, this conversation. The one thing I admire, we was tough, and you know, we was having our way, which I'm right. So we back to the Silverdome, and when he said, we was having our way with Chuck, the Lakers could not guard the Detroit Piston guards. Once again, the three guards, Isiah Thomas, Joe Dumars, and Vinnie Johnson, they all had great handle, and they all could play point guard or shooting guard. So what Chuck Daly would do is ride the hot hand, and whoever was hot would be the person who they fed the ball through. For example, the next season in '89, Joe Dumars totally destroyed the Lakers. That's why he got the MVP for those finals. He was unbelievable. Nobody could guard him. And they have three players like that. And that's not to say that Vinnie Johnson was, you know, as good as those two other guys, but in spurts, in spurts, Vinnie Johnson off like his errors, Jamal Crawford, and Riley, I think issued a challenge to you personally, you know, not just, you got to do something about Isaiah. Y'all freeze, y'all kissing down another out, right? And, and I never forget, I was coming down the lane, and you ain't even go for the ball, you're just like, boom, knocked me out of there. And let me say this, that shows you the importance of having the coach that understands, that understands how powerful psychological manipulation can be. Because had Isiah Thomas taken that, that same blow from any other of the LA Lakers, it would not have affected him psychologically like them, like it did getting hit by Magic Johnson. Pat Riley understood that in order for the Lakers to have a chance to compete against the Pistons, who he understood were the younger, fresher, more motivated team, he had to break that bond between Magic Johnson and Isiah Thomas. And he decided to break it by forcing Magic Johnson to make a decision. And Pat Riley understood that it definitely had to be Magic, because if it was any other player, it would not have had the same effect on Isiah Thomas. Pat Riley knew that in order for the win that night, '88 finals, it had to be Magic Johnson that hit Isiah Thomas, because he had to fracture that relationship. Even if they continue to kiss before the game and all that other stuff, that would only be ceremonial. Pat Riley understood that the rapport between Magic Johnson and Isiah Thomas was highly emotional, and in order for him to break that emotional bond, he had to traumatize their relationship by having Magic Johnson be the one to hit Isiah Thomas. And once again, that is why it is essential for a coach of a championship-level team to understand psychological manipulation. That is why you'll often see coaches like Chuck Daly and Greg Popovich, who have a CIA background, Phil Jackson having a background in Zen Buddhism, which allows him to be able to assist his players in ascending to higher levels of mental functionality through meditation. Very important. Look at Joe Dumars' face. Joe Dumars is aggravated Isaiah Thomas because in his mind, he's saying, Isaiah, you cannot get kicked out of this game. Oh, right now, the series is one-one. We have a chance to, we have a chance to levy a very severe blow on the LA Lakers. And he understood, as many of the Pistons, I'm sure understood, that the relationship between Isiah Thomas and Magic Johnson could explode and cost him a championship. So on both sides, both teams looked at the Magic Johnson-Isiah Thomas relationship as something that had to come to an end in order for either one of them to have a chance to win. And I'm sure, I'm sure none of Isiah Thomas's teammates came up to him in the locker room that said, Isaiah, you, you have to stop fraternizing with Magic. But I'm sure that it was talk amongst them when he wasn't around that, you know, this could cost us. We have to do something about this. And it wouldn't surprise me if Chuck Daly came to Isiah Thomas and may have tried to speak with him about their, about the relationship that Isiah Thomas had with Magic Johnson, because when you get to that level, that championship level in professional sports, there's the little things that make the difference between a champion and coming in, you know, coming in second, especially with teams that are that close. In other words, they were stale. The Lakers were stale by '88. Those of us who remember, they had like two seven-game series even before getting to Detroit. I believe they had a seven-game series against Utah, who were a young and up-and-coming team with John Stockton and Karl Malone, and they had a seven-game series with the Mavericks, who had Derek Harper, Rolando Blackman, and Sam Perkins, and Mark McGwire on that team, the last year before Mark got traded to the Pistons. So that was stale, like, you know, they, they really were. But they were very, very similar to one of Muhammad Ali's fights in the mid to late '70s, where he kind of got the decision on guile. The Lakers were able to win that '88 series when they really were not the better team. The tribe was really the better team, they just didn't understand how to win at that level yet. Your team was dead, they were, they weren't gonna respond, but you responded well. Perry Ali really responded to him with the physicality only, and that is fired your team. And it took me, it took me a long time to understand, like, you had to make a choice between you, Linkous, and I'll finish you, absolutely. Like, like in that movie, The Highlander, there can be only one. And this is why I stated in one of the previous videos that I strongly believe that the reason why Magic was so open with the knowledge is because I don't really believe that he believed that Isiah Thomas and the Pistons would ever be a threat. You know, he was having Isiah Thomas and Mark McGwire come to his basketball camp, and he was showing them certain techniques on how to win. I don't believe that he thought that they would ever be a threat. And if they ever were, by the time they were both, he and Larry Bird will probably be out of the league by then. So I don't think that he really took the Pistons very seriously. As a matter of fact, I believe if you watch the Bad Boys documentary, that James Worthy is on record as saying that the Lakers did not take the Pistons very seriously. So it took them a couple years to understand how great that team was. The Detroit Pistons, they were a great team. And even though I've been with all of you, he was like, it's the Lakers first, and I couldn't understand that. And, and emotionally, they're like, really hurt. Run that was the point of Pat Riley issuing the cold read through Magic Johnson. That was purely psychological. He tapped into the Magic Johnson alter ego, the Magic Johnson personality alter. He had to get him off of Ervin and on to Magic, the super-competitive, take-no-prisoners assassin, which is what Magic Johnson was. Proverbially speaking, he had to make Isiah Thomas see Magic Johnson and not Ervin Johnson, the person who had all black eyes like a, like a great white shark. That was necessary in order to cause that fracture in their relationship that would allow the Lakers to sneak in one last champion [ __ ]. Because Pat Riley understood that if he would have allowed them to continue on with the kissing and hugging and, hey, how you doing, and all that [ __ ] that was going on on the court, not only would the Lakers have lost, but that may have caused irreparable, with irreparable damage in the locker room with many of the, of Magic's teammates being kind of bitter towards him for being so soft on Isaiah Thomas. Please keep in mind that the Lakers won the championship in 1980, and there were still locker room issues between Magic and many of the other players because of perceived favoritism that he was receiving from Dr. Jerry Buss. So those things can happen. So Pat Riley really did Magic a favor in regards to his legacy, but it also taught me like, hey, you, you gotta give it. It's about being a champion, and if you are, you willing to go, go after it, you ain't gonna win it, right?
Well, we have to remember, super athletic, very fast at every position, both mentally and physically. Once again, the Pistons had three players who could play both point guard and shooting guard. Isaiah Thomas, Joe Dumars, and Vinnie Johnson could play point guard or shooting guard depending on who was hot. They would allow that person to play the shooting guard. All three had great handle. If Vinnie Johnson was the Jamal Crawford of his day, great handle, could get off, and could play a point if need be. So they were really the first team in NBA history to have three guards like that. They really played a modern style. It's very, very difficult to deal with. That was our only move, and we had to win Game three. See, we had to win Game three. We didn't know that. Yeah, right. See, when you interfere. [Music] McKell was like, go deal and don't be happy just to beat us. If we win again, what we like, oh, we have, you can, you come back. Game three. It's like, I mean, well, I bet money that Joe Dumars and Bill Laimbeer watching this interview and they're saying, speak for yourself. We knew we had to win Game three. Your ass was too busy making out at center court, French kissing this [ __ ] cheek. We knew we had to win Game three. You didn't. [Music] There was a kiss of death. Y'all came out in every time y'all scored, it wasn't no high-fiving, wasn't no nothing. It was just like, for us, the following year's like, okay, we learned. Yeah, but y'all put it on us. But we had to, we had to win that game, make sure the series went back because you guys could do things we hadn't seen. Exactly. That late '80s Pistons team, they were truly ahead of their time. They had a lot of players who could play various positions. You know, the Lakers, of course, had Magic, who could, you know, who could play pretty much four positions. But that Pistons team, they had, like I stated, they had three guards who were interchangeable, and then they had a player like Dennis Rodman, who's one of the great athletes that would come through the NBA, probably could have been a gold medal decathlete if he had pursued it, who could guard four or five positions. Like people talk about LeBron James, like Dennis Rodman, could guard five positions. He used to guard Larry Bird, he used to guard Magic Johnson. And as I've stated, Larry Bird will light him up because he was that great. Larry Bird would have no problem lighting up players in this era, none. He was 6'10" and shot the ball behind his head. You could not block his jump shot. Larry Bird would have, would have had no problem in this era. Championship teams do. Celtics, we knew, okay, we knew it wouldn't be who was gonna be down low. We got the two-headed monster, Larry Bird out front, Kevin McHale down low. You know, we couldn't do no with Kevin McHale, you know, crying. Yes. So we knew. But you guys. [Music] And let me also say, Bill Laimbeer was probably the first stretch five. Bill Laimbeer used to take three-pointers from the top of the key, seven-foot center. He's the first guy doing that, man. I mean, you had, you had centers back like in the late '70s, early '80s, like Jack Sikma, and guys who could hit the J, but Bill Laimbeer used to spot off from the top of the key and stroke threes like nothing. And you brought in Mark McGwire. Yeah, John Salley. They really played a lot like they go, the Golden State Warriors do today, except they got more responsible ball handling and point guard play from their guards. The Detroit Pistons did. Curry's Curry's is of course a better shooter than any of those players, but very, very close, very, very similar styles of play. Did you see that? Then he Johnson to the Euro step. Did you see that? And rewind it back. You see that that Euro step ain't none new. We got the score the same as the starters, but then we got a brief. Cuz they, yes, yeah, sometimes God put us in positions, situations we have to figure it out ourselves, right? That was tough. That was a strain on our relationship, but it was great because we both won, and I was happy for you. Yeah. [Music] Well, outstanding. We just been continuing ideas there from the beginning. He told me that they start off to win the best record, and they did. Then they helped them to handle home court advantage later, chanting, and then to go back to back. What you guys did on the court, wow. Get a ran to Portland, but Portland was just a dumb team, super talented, but a dumb team. Wow. That was crazy.
All right, so now Isiah Thomas is going to discuss the fall of the Detroit Pistons. And pay very close attention to what he says. We had a great run, a lot of pride. We did so much for basketball, not only around this country but for the Rust Belt and the city of Detroit. And I love those guys, and they accomplished a lot. It's, it's a heavy burden to carry around for two or three years. Most championship teams now look at Mark McGwire. Pay very close attention to what Mark McGwire is saying. You know, for years, Isiah Thomas has gotten the brunt of the blame for for walking past the Chicago Bulls bench. Laimbeer is sitting back, chillin' here. He knows what he's gonna do. And of course, I believe Mark McGwire knows what he's gonna do. But paint very close attention to what he's saying to Isaiah Thomas, because I'm reading his lips. I don't know if, if you guys will be able to see it on the screen well enough to read his lips, but he's telling Isaiah Thomas, I'm not shaking them [ __ ] hands. [ __ ] them. That's what he told. That's what he said to Isaiah Thomas. I'm gonna wind it back. Do to stay together a long time, and I love those guys, and they accomplished a lot. It's, it's a heavy burden to carry around for two or three years. Most championship teams stay together a long time. What happened? Because we thinking that all y'all about to go on a run here, back to back, and by young. So I never got a chance to ask you, and everybody else wants to know, to what happened that it just broke up? Now you see what Magic did. The Magic like, really slickly, as Isiah Thomas, like, damn, I fell off that fast. That's mainly what he's asking him. He's trying to act like he's, you're trying to act like he's asking us instead question. He's barely saying, my reign lasted for 10, 11 years. You [ __ ] only had two championships. It fell off. And that's really not fair, because the Pistons truly were a title contender from the '86, '87 season all the way to the 1991 season. So a really one, two years. But the answer to the question that they ran into the greatest player ever. But listen to what Isaiah Thomas is gonna say. No, I wasn't. They league. They had won six games with the Chicago Bulls, who were precocious in 1989. They went six games with them. '89, the Bulls were the only team to give them a run in 1989 because they swept the Lakers. They swept you, Magic. And in 1990, the Bulls come seven, and the Pistons went to the finals, and they beat, they beat Portland in five. And the one game Portland won, I believe, was overtime game. So they really, that really was a gentlemen's sweep. So the Bulls were coming. So I don't want another bottle, damn wrist. Chicago was coming. They just didn't, they just did not have the experience. Okay, y'all went back to back. We went back to back. Celtics, then go back to right. So now it's like, okay, now we can three clear, right? We can do that. The Celtics, then do the community, right? I hit the gym in my house, and I shot. Now notice he says, I had the gym in my house, and I shot every single day. That once again shows you what him and Magic were not working out in the offseason anymore. Because if they worked, then Magic would have known that already. You see what I'm saying? Magic was willing to share the secrets with him because he'd never thought that Isiah Thomas was gonna sneak up on him like that. Brother, no disrespect, you wouldn't shoot no 14, 15 hours a day. Please stop. My wrist, I want my wrist out. Yeah, just over zoom. So I went to the doctor, right? Doctor looked at Magic's face. Magic, your faith like, [ __ ] please. The room wine is back to the season. My wish, I want my wrist. Yeah, just over. She looked at Magic's face. Magic is bigger. This [ __ ] still making excuses. Over shoots. I went to the doctor, right? Doctor looked at it, and he's like, we gotta do surgery on your wrist. Hmm. Well, to let a lot of people tell it, your wrist has been broke for a while. Isaiah, you got two sons, a broken wrist. I guess that should be genetic. One more time. It ain't never coming back. So they cut my, they cut my wrist open, and I missed being game 291, then came back for the playoffs, one the same. But we get to the Eastern Conference Finals, and you know, back in all day, you know, the wounded, you kill the wounded. And Jordan and Pippen, him every time they saw my wrist, theirs. And they were also just a better team, and Jordan was the better player. And your time came to an end. Your rulership came to an end, like all kingdoms do, brother. You were the greatest little man to ever play, but your time came to an end. Let's be for real. Scottie Pippen hadn't had that migraine, you might have lost in 1990. You guys went seven games with that Bulls team in 1990. Don't tell me that you lost in '91 because your damn wrist. Even if you were fully healthy with a perfect wrist, maybe you would have won one game in that series. The Bulls was so much faster than them. You could tell the difference in their physiques from 1990 to '91. That they had been hitting the gym, they had been hitting the weights. They were not going to allow Detroit to bully them anymore. It was just daytime. Exactly. Now, pay attention to Jordan when Jordan comes and shakes Isiah Thomas's hand. He won't even make eye contact with him. There was some serious vitriol between them. Pay attention when Jordan shakes Isiah Thomas. [Music] It's the truth. Jordan's come. I said it. That they learned how to win from the Pistons. It's the truth. You don't have to say I'm saying because that's the truth. You know, you learn from other teams how to win. And I still say this to this damn day, my wrist wasn't messed up, the series would have won four and a half games again. Just like you said, your hamstring wasn't messed up. Goes, you were great teachers for us, and we were supposed to dominate. But injuries. Look, I said, time as you did dominate. You were able to get to three straight finals. You went back-to-back. That's domination. You guys' team wasn't built to, to dominate with all you guys going into your 30s. You were too small. When you were younger, yes, you could dominate because you could use your speed and, you know, your explosiveness. But when you guys got 29, 30 years old, too many long runs in the playoffs, and you guys weren't built that way because you just, you know, you just didn't have the size. Detroit B teams through intelligence and execution and great guard play, but they were not built to dominate teams with all their guys turning 31, 32, 33, not like the Bulls were with that triangle, and it was size like they had. So they were not built to age. It is what it is. But let's not act like the Pistons were old because they were not old. And even Magic stated it himself, he said, all you guys were still relatively young, 29, 30 years old, but they were not built to age.
So now Magic and Isiah, they are going to talk about one of the more controversial aspects of their relationship, which is why they kiss each other on the cheek. [Music] [Music] Unfortunately, we've had our public ups and downs, but what people don't realize is that, you know, since '88, we've been on this public stage, right? And unfortunately, you know, all our love and joy, you know, pain and hurt, you know, gets to be viewed through the microscope. Yeah. Now, I'm gonna bring you back to the kiss. Did you ever think the kiss will be on a poster? Greet each other like, yes. And the Italian families, they get that from the Middle Ages. Remember, at one time, Italy was ruled by so-called blacks known as the Lombards. All day Lombards, that term means long beards. They were also ruled over by the North by the Normans, who were so-called black people, by the way. The Normans were so-called black, okay? They were Vikings, but that's all about the video for another day. But that is where the, that's where that custom comes from. As I stated in the scriptures, it tells you to greet each other with a holy kiss. Remember, in the ancient cultures, everything was not as sexualized, or there was not an implication of sex with everything that someone did, like there is today. So to me, I don't really harp too much on that. I'm not saying that they were, were not in a sexual relationship with each other. That to me is, you know, it's whatever. No, in that world, in that entertainment world, the sports world, there is an element of pansexuality there. There's no doubt about that. But I don't have enough empirical data to speak with certainty. The only thing that I will say is that the fact that this cat here has two homosexual sons, and Magic has basically a pre-op transgender, kind of tells me that they both have bad karma for whatever reason, regards to their sexual indiscretions. Remember, any non-families, exactly. Our families became close. And one gonna meet you anymore. Say, yeah, exactly. Uh, they both have a good sense of humor. Imagine that. You know, a [ __ ] for 20 years, you like blood brothers. And, yeah, yeah, I got to shake hands like that. It is what it is. We could be friends. We could show male affection toward each other and go out and do our job, do what we were supposed to do. Lynn, your wife, Cookie, my wife, we're friends, type as well. We all used to go on vacation together. Yeah, I'm probably going orgies together. Two together. We go. Why dominate? No, what I got to show this, this photo for this man. Some tight ass black drawers throwing a football. Come on. The time we had. Yeah, I bet maybe that photo is meant to imply something. Who the hell knows? Who who goes out to a why playing football in some skivvies like that? Okay. We went through the basketball thing. We both won the championships. We retired. And what people don't know, we're both in business. Whooping on TV? Well, hey, that's a great thing that they, that they're both in business, and that they're both successful. All right. That's the true moral of the story is that, you know, even though they separated for a long time, they were both able to make something of themselves post-basketball and not descend into depression and things like that. That really speaks highly of both of their intellect.
All right, so now they're gonna close out the interview. Let's see what happens. And but they would, yeah, whoa. Well, let me say this. I think that in the Eastern Conference, Dr. J was really looked at as the ambassador for the NBA until he retired. And then I would say that Isiah Thomas, as the lead point guard, I can understand why Magic would say that they were both the leaders. Isiah Thomas definitely was viewed in a high-level position, but really not until the late '80s did he kind of ascend to that level. Well, that's definitely understandable why Magic would make that assertion. But to me, Dr. J was viewed as the ambassador for the league, for the entire NBA, especially for the Eastern Conference, though in the early to mid-'80s until he retired in '87. We both didn't know, but now we know. It's since I, Pat Riley used to tell me, you're not going to even know the impact and the fact that you had or you enjoyed winning interactive. Oh yeah, he was right. You know, we were in the moment. Our lives that parallel each other. We were leaders, given in the lead. We helped change the All-Star. We here, and it helped change a lot of different things within the league. And now with help, we helping young men understand also to social causes. Back then, you and I were the leaders of that, whatever issues they were. And so what the guys are doing now, we were already doing. Yeah, it was a smaller scale. We didn't have social media, we didn't have all the things that blow it up. But I would say to you, this has been a tremendous day. Right? My wife, my mother, my father, been saying, y'all need to get back together. Yeah. So when everybody called, I said, no question. We don't do this. And just to sit across from you and have those, we live the moments of fun, excellence, working hard, dreaming big. Cut. We were dreaming moments before we were even who sit up at 19, 20, 21, dreaming of stuff we wanted to do. And now here we are doing it. You know, but you are my brother. Let me apologize to you if I hurt you. That we haven't been together. And God is good to bring us back together. All right. Let me say this. You could tell as Magic was speaking that Isiah was trying to keep from breaking down for a long time. And then as Magic, which was taking him, taking the both of them down that, you know, down memory lane, you could see that Isiah couldn't hold it. And then once Magic apologized, that was like, that's what Isiah was waiting for. I mean, let me say this. Yeah, people in your life that love you dearly, and you guys fall off for whatever reason, and prove beliefs, peak, and they didn't, they don't talk for 25, 30, 35 years, waiting for you to call them or apologize, you know, for verbally speaking. So, you know, in life, sometimes the most heart brings people into your life, whether somebody of the opposite sex, I might have the same gender, that for whatever reason, your spirits are knit, you feel like you like you finish each other's sentences. The scriptures tell you that there's a friend that sticketh closer than a brother. I mean, it wasn't a surprise that that this interview culminated in so much emotion, and that's why it's a great thing that they were able to reclaim their relationship. Okay. It's crazy, those things, but we had to go through. [Music] But anyway, that was certainly a great interview. It's great to see the brothers come back together. It's gonna be great for Isaiah Thomas's psychological, mental help over there, mental health. Also great for Isaiah Thomas's career that him and Magic are on better terms. And it's great for the NBA, man. And it's also a good example for so-called black men who who have had their spirits knit as great friends, great comrades, you know, to try to, you know, to try to repair whatever breach may be or may have been made in their relationship. You know, we can all take a lesson from that. And no doubt about that. But anyway.