Why You Should STOP Hating On Yellow Neonates | All In The Tree Tuesday Live

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TUS 30 seconds [music] [music] TUS 20 seconds [music] [music] 10 9 8 7 [music] 6 5 4 3 2 One 0. Trap Talk Reptile Network. Coolest Reptile Network in the world. Episode 713. On the tree Tuesdays, Carly Coastal Morelia aka Clean of the Yellows. Somebody said in the chats, I don't know. We'll see. But uh listen, I'm your boy MJ. We're in for a good night. Hit that like button. Hit that subscribe button. Hit that notification bell. Select all. You'll be reminded of every podcast released out of network. But this is all Tuesdays with you and with me, the mayor of Condro Town, Bill Stel.

>> Happy Tuesday.

>> Happy Tuesday.

>> I I know you know Marshall has been detained in a meeting. I don't know if he's gonna be dropping in later or not. Um, but I'm sure gonna miss his technical difficulties.

>> Yeah, I mean, this should be a very smooth podcast without Marshall, but yet he's missed. So, uh, we'll see. Anyways, man, what's up, Bill? How you doing, buddy?

>> Doing good. Doing good. Just

>> happy belated birthday, my man Billsteagle. 43 and a half. Unbelievable.

>> Plus 17 and a half.

>> I didn't want to add that number, but go ahead. Let let me do my math right.

>> Yeah, man. How do you feel, bro? How Okay. How was your weekend? Let's Let's see. I want to know what your what your birthday week was all about.

>> It was really good. Had uh family come in. We had a party uh family and close friends on Friday. Uh went to a Van Halen cover band concert on Saturday.

>> Nice.

>> Shot in sporting clay tournaments Saturday and Sunday. So, uh it was a great weekend. Um, long weekend. I was pretty damn tired come Monday, but refreshed and ready to go.

>> Yeah, man. Um, again, I'm glad you had a great birthday. Um, you know, we we talked quite a bit as far as where, you know, where you're at currently going into next year. Um, I know you've already got an ovulation with your collaboration, your legendary collaboration at this point with Buddy. Is this remind me the fourth or third year you guys been collabing now? Remind me how many years this is.

>> I think this is the third year.

>> Okay.

>> Third year we we had one year uh where uh we didn't hit uh up there.

>> So I think this is actually the third clutch, but I think we've been working together for four years now.

>> So yeah, it should be a good one. It was a sickness male offspring nyria that he's had his up at his place since it was a hatchling.

>> So he's had it up there a long time now and um he's doing great things with it. the Neo that we've produced. Um, it's been funny. We've never had a repeat pairing.

>> He's he's paired that male to a different female every time.

>> So, really looking forward to this one. The females. Trooper Walsh. I think it's Trooper Walsh. Is that the new blue?

>> Is that Trooper Line?

>> I think so.

>> New blue. I'm not I can't

>> No, it's Bushmaster. It's Bushmaster. New blue line female that he bred to uh up there in Maryland. So, yeah, looking forward to that. I've got some pairings going now. I I literally just started my season last week. Um, and have that clutch, uh, that freight train clutch that's due to hatch in four days. So,

>> exciting.

>> Yeah, should be pretty exciting this week. What about you? What's going on on your end?

>> Shh, man. Just, you know, trying to figure two month old. Is Enzo two months old yet?

>> Two months, bro. Bro, he's not even a month yet. He he'd be uh he turns a month in two days.

>> Um

>> so yeah, you know, listen, as much as I'm like, damn, I wish this stage is hurry up, I'm also trying to just soak in the moment. It's only going to be temporary, but I'm like, [ __ ] man.

>> This lack of sleep is brutal.

>> These are these are tough days. I I know. I experience it secondhand through through my uh son and his wife. You know, as you know, they've got a three-month-old and a three-year-old. No, a nine-month-old and a three-year-old.

>> Um Yeah. And our guest tonight is on the exact same [ __ ] boat if she's further than we are. Um she just had her son Jamie um like you know I think a few months before uh Enzo came and then she also has a three-year-old as well. So

>> y

>> dude so we're gonna hear how she's doing

>> I'd like to uh

>> oh is that me or him?

>> Because because I get to pack them along their on their way. Uh

>> am I am I is that me or you Bill? Am I okay? Looks

>> like we're having a little Marshall technical difficulties on MJZen.

>> Oh, that's Yeah, you're good. We're good. We snapped out of it. Say what you just said again. I'm sorry. Just repeat what you just said.

>> I I I said I I wish I could say we were in the same boat um the three of us, but I get to send them along their way whenever I'm done with them. And uh

>> yeah,

>> fortunately not the case with you guys.

>> Well, Bill, you're doing major things with these hands of yours. Okay. So, I mean, you had you have quite the the story. But anyways, let's get to it. I'm excited for Carly. Uh, without further ado, I bring her on or what?

>> Yeah. Yeah, let's do it.

>> All right, guys. You're in for a treat. Hit that like button, especially if you like them yellows because it is Carly Coastal Merelia on this beautiful Tuesday evening. Episode 713 coming at you right now. DO WHAT YOU GOT TO DO TO GET YOUR MIND RIGHT and do what you got to stay hydrated. Episode 713. Let's go.

>> Good. You ready for do do more in the future trap talk podcastes?

>> Yes.

>> Only only trap talk exclusive

>> exclusive only.

>> So stop calling us [laughter] the spot the love it or not. I'm hot from the spot. Get the [music] pop when I come up the spot. Get the pop when I come up the spot. [music] Get the club when I come up spot. Get the club when I come up. Everybody, we do it. Everybody, [music] we do it. [music] Do it. Do [music] it. Do [music] it. [music] Spot. Get the club. When I come up with the spot, get the club. When I come up with the club spot, get the club. When I come up with [music] the club and we are live episode 713. Hello, Miss Carly. [laughter]

>> Hi, Carly.

>> Hi. Happy late birthday.

>> Let me say before Bill, nice shirt. I like that shirt. I was I had to change. I saw Bill wearing mine. So I [laughter]

>> So you ran to the closet, grabbed your fing shirt.

>> I did. I ran to the closet.

>> Well, absolutely. I love my shirt. Very very comfy.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. I was a little bit extra with the [laughter] the quality of it.

>> Mine Mine My shirt's stained still, so I need a new one. Remember I told you that a long time ago?

>> Well, yeah. I asked you if you got the stain out and you couldn't remember. So I will get you a new one. It's not.

>> You can blame it on the kids, right, MJ? That stain.

>> Yeah, it was. But it was actually was It was uh Hot Wings, I think it was. [laughter]

>> Nice. Good luck getting that out.

>> That's not coming out.

>> Hey, Carly, welcome, dude. Uh, is this your first All in on the Tree Tuesday? Is it Is this the first you've been here before?

>> This is the second one.

>> Okay, cool. Because I can't remember if I It was me and you on a podcast and it wasn't Tuesday, but Okay, you remember. All right, so Tuesday, here you are. Uh, we were just talking about you having two kids now. Um, can you tell us what that's like?

>> Exhausting.

>> It's exhausting. We're still, um, you're doing a lot better on the sleep front than we have done with Jamie. Uh, Jamie is just now sleeping about three hour stretches. And occasionally occasionally he'll sleep from the time he goes down until 4:00 a.m. which is amazing. Um, but then he's up at like four, five, six.

>> So,

>> wow.

>> You know, I I have I don't even remember those days, you know. I think that's kind of like child birth. You know, you you you know, you forget about it like once it's over at the time you're saying, "I'm never going to do this again, you know, but then [laughter]

>> we definitely are already um we're not that bad because we're we're talking about having a third." So [laughter]

>> that's what I'm talking about. See?

>> Yeah. From what I could tell, having a kid is like partying way too hard and your hangover is like six months long and then and then it wears off and you're like, "Maybe we could do another one." And then it's all over again. You're just like,

>> "Yeah." And it's and it's it's it's like you said in the beginning, um just kind of soaking up the like the moment. I heard somebody say uh not that long ago, you will never get this version of them back.

>> Yeah.

>> So enjoy it because you will never get that back again.

>> And it just kind of stuck.

>> Yeah. No, I hear you. I'm doing my best to just stay in the moment. But

>> MJ, are you guys have you have you talked about number three or number four or two? And now

>> the second one just came out.

>> Yeah, No, I don't know. I mean, like kind of not really. She's talking about me getting snipped to be honest. And so I'm like, well, what's what's reward with that? Because, you know, she's talking about like delivery presents or some [ __ ] Okay, I get it. I'll hook you up. But what if I get my [ __ ] thing snipped? What's my what's my gift? And I hope I hope it's something something up there like a [ __ ] Billsteo designer or something [laughter] because I'M NOT DOING IT. I DON'T KNOW. AM I TRIPPING, BILL? I mean, is that like I guess because it's like you can't undo that, right? If you

>> Yes, you can.

>> You can do it. able and it's 20 minutes you walk out with an ice pack.

>> Oh, cool. So sweet. Good to know about the ice pack. [laughter]

>> All right. Anyways, let's kind of move forward to a Condra. This is why you're here. Anyways, um dude, quite the year. Um it's like, you know, you had

>> I want to say maybe the couple clutches you had during your pregnancy, like you had a smaller clutch of eggs that were only three. Uh but then but then you ended with with you know with in a bang in a sense because you had two more clutches be after that clutch. Can you kind of talk us out your year? So uh what went down this year?

>> Yeah. So I mean I had I had a really small clutch that was kind of like a not really it wasn't a repeat but it was a um the love male to a different female. Um and then they they laid a really small clutch. And then I had two more that I tried in the spring. That was the first time I have tried a spring pairing.

>> Yeah.

>> Because those have never worked for me in the past. [snorts]

>> So, um I did one that had also a relatively small clutch, only three babies hatched out. And then the most recent clutch that I just had hatch was a clutch of eight total. So, and both of those they went really well. There was no cycling done whatsoever. I just tossed snakes together. they did their thing and um it worked out really well. Um and then it's the season is just continued. It's still going. I've got three females off food right now. So

>> Harley, did you were you having small clutches that had good successful hatch rates or did you start out with larger clutches and then only ended up with a few neos?

>> So, both of the the ones that were really small, um they laid like nine eggs, but some of them were slugs. And then it never failed that there was like four or five that actually candled well, and then I just always lost one or two in that first couple weeks. So, they they just ultimately were just a bunch of little eggs. So,

>> any theories? Any theories why uh relatively small clutch sizes? Were your females small or

>> Yeah. Um, one of them was so the really bold um, neos that just hatched. Uh, that girl is relatively small. She also she doesn't take to breeding really well. Every time that we've tried to pair her or put a male with her, she gets really stressed out [clears throat] and it's it's she just hates it and she ends up coming down with a respiratory infection. um to the point that like I've when I've cycled her before like I've pulled her off and been like, "Okay, we're not we're not doing this." And she didn't have a respiratory infection um until it was too late by that point. This past year when I brought her, I was like, "Okay, we finally have a male that you're not bothered by that's not stressing you all out completely to the point of sickness." Um and then she she got a little sick towards the end. So, um, and that's why we're not we're not pairing her again. She's bounced back body composition really really well. But I'm not comfortable pairing her until I know cuz like I said, she's we've cultured her and everything. So, I don't know necessarily why she just all of a sudden every time a male goes in there where they get sick.

>> Um, [clears throat]

>> I've heard that before, by the way, Carly.

>> Um, yeah, I I have too. And that's what makes me feel a bit better cuz the first time it happened I was like I don't like this. Why are you doing that? But

>> it's I I think that was the cause of the small clutch there. Um

>> the other female has never given me a good clutch before.

>> So I think that's a her thing.

>> Um the other that the first female, the one that had the little the three eggs in the beginning of the year, [clears throat] um she was the one that actually gave me my first clutch. um that ended up completely crashing at like day 35. Uh they just all of a sudden overnight all of them formed windows um in the same area that there were like little spots when they were laid and it ultimately what it came down to that I'm aware of at least was it was just poor calcification on her end. So I actually gave her a calcium supplement um prior to pairing her and her laying. Uh and the eggs were good. There just was not that many.

>> Did you um when you had that that windowed clutch, did you try to intervene and do like Elmer's glue or

>> Oh, I tried everything. I was asking I [ __ ] up royally because I'm I'm over here. I'm doing the thing that you shouldn't do and asking everybody, hey, what do I do? What do I do? What do I do? Tried everything. Um and in the end, like I had a couple of people, Pat was one of them. Um Buddy Bashimi was one of them. And they're like, "This just not meant. It's just it's just probably poor calcification. It's nothing you're doing. It's not meant to be. You just got to let it ride.

>> Yeah.

>> So, and I was so I I mean that was the first clutch that I had. So, I was kind of, you know, heartbroken by that. But,

>> so it was also her first clutch, too. Like, got to understand like not every first clutch is going to be pretty, you know, or like, you know, a pretty experience or, you know, for instance, I've even had girls that slugged out and then the next year have really good, you know, eggs. So, I don't know. What would you what would you have to uh chalk that up to, Bill, about like having smaller clutches? Do you you think that's more on the male side or on the female side? If if it was a regular thing, you would say, you know?

>> Yeah, I I haven't really figured it out um to be honest. But I've had that experience where a female I had a large female lay a relatively small clutch, like six eggs, no slugs, just six eggs.

>> Um and then when I paired her again a year later, she had a more normalsized clutch.

>> So, with the same male.

>> Yeah.

>> Um, that's a good question. Yes, I did. Same male, repeat pairing.

>> Um, and had a more normalsized clutch. So,

>> see, I've had people that that that will say, you know, oh, it's the male. If you're having small clutches, it's the male. But that was two different males for two different clutches. And then that was the same male. So, like Hot Sauce's clutch, that was 19 eggs.

>> So, and that was the same male. So,

>> yeah.

>> Yeah,

>> that was Yeah. Yeah. I was going to say you you've had a big clutch before.

>> Um, but like I'm I'm I've always been in that range of like 11 to 16. I think the the the you know, as far as what I've seen, but I trust me, I mean, I don't know if I want a 20 something bus clutch. I didn't want to experience one like just to, you know, and I hope it's a [ __ ] sick ass clutch, but either way, I mean, I don't know, man. I I just feel like um [sighs] I don't know. I just feel like getting healthy eggs. Um, there are steps that are definitely needed that that should be taken. And I just mean in general my my biggest thing that helped me this year was definitely soaking. I feel like, you know, or just making sure that girl was hydrated and cleared out. Um, and you know, I got I got Bill to thank for that because Bill's been preaching about that on this show for a while now. And and I always was stressed about doing it, but dude, they drink, they [ __ ] afterwards, they they're fine. Um, so props to Bill.

>> Yeah. Well, it's it is a little unsettling to, you know, put them in that soak box and when I soak them, I soak them overnight. You know, none of this like two, three hours, go back and get them. I mean, I give them a good overnight soak.

>> Um,

>> that makes me nervous because they're so stupid.

>> I don't do that.

>> Trust me, there's not a whole lot there's not a whole lot of water in that soak box.

>> Yeah. And I usually put a, you know, a little towel in there or something that worst case scenario if they're going to drop their head down, you know, they can use that towel. And I've never had one drown, you know, knock on wood, in in a in a soak box, whether it's before they laid or after. You know, I soak them overnight after they lay. And they can really, as you guys know, can really be gassed out after that. Um, so I think there there is certainly a little bit of risk about soaking them, especially after they lay. Um, but I haven't had any trouble with it and they seem to bounce back really well. You know, when you soak them, hydrate them after they lay. So, I think it's a good practice.

>> Yeah. You know, I think we've had we've had this guy on from Australia. Oh, man. I don't I don't It's not the Condro Collective. It's the Australian guy all condro or something like that. He was the one telling us about injecting the the pinkies with water before he feeds them and stuff like that. Um, but he just posted something on his Instagram how he does it for his females. He he showed a rat that he was feeding a rodent that was feeding that was just gutted full of water and it doesn't explode or anything. It goes right in. But it's like man I mean those are small measures I feel like that could help, you know, especially getting a girl to bounce back. I mean dehydration is what they look like they're going through the most after they lay. They just look like [ __ ] for the most

>> I I don't even know. Like I I've talked about this before and other people have seen their gravid females drink. I have not. Uh, I mean, I can't even remember watching one come off that perch and get down and and, you know, get into that water bowl.

>> Yeah.

>> I'm not saying it doesn't happen. I just,

>> you know, if I've ever seen it, I don't remember it. So, I think they could go a very long time, you know, without drinking um towards that towards that later stage when they're getting ready to lay. They just don't want to leave that heat.

>> Yeah.

>> I've had really good luck with taking the bull up to the snake.

>> Yeah. I've tried elevated water perches um or elevated water dishes. You know, David Brahms, I think, still makes something you can put a 16 deli cup, you know, mount the perch or the side of the side of the cage or whatever.

>> Yeah.

>> What I noticed this year, Bill, you know, because you know, it's funny because you you you always say you're not in your room. You're not in your room at night time. You're you're you know,

>> usually not. No.

>> Yeah. So, me, I'm [ __ ] in here goddamn 24/7 at night time. And I noticed a couple girls that were in their lay box. And this was around the time period where I was like comfortable still leaving the bottom perch because it had that David Brahms water dish. And it it was that same level of the height of the egg box. So I remember seeing two females just literally poke their head out of the egg box, stretch it to the water dish, drink, and then just go right back in. So I I for was it could say that I saw my girl right before they laid drinking water, which was cool to see.

>> Um Yeah. So, you know,

>> well, it's cool to see them drinking water anytime.

>> Yeah.

>> You know, like most people are excited. They show p pictures of their of their condos eating.

>> I'm like, well, [ __ ] that's easy. You know,

>> get a picture of them drinking out of their water out of their water dish. To me,

>> especially when you just change it. Like, you know, if you change your waters and like close the lights off, come back in like 20 minutes. You'll be surprised how many snakes are down there drinking because they know that shit's fresh. I'm telling you.

>> They take big long drinks. That's what I love. It's so cool to see.

>> You seen your emerald drink water? Have you Have you seen how [ __ ] they just sit there and just chug? Have you seen that yet, darling? Oh my god, dude. I [ __ ] you not, Bill. These emeralds will drink for 20 minutes straight. They'll sit there. They'll put their face in the deli cup and just slowly open their mouth. If you look carefully, they're just drinking water and it's like, "What the fuck?"

>> I've got the um the little [clears throat] the deli cup holders that Brahms makes that goes on like the side of the cage, not perch.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And I've got one one of the basins is notorious for just she just lays like she just perches over and she's in it and [snorts] half the time I see her face in it and she's just drinking and I literally I was like is she drown?

>> Yeah. Are you going to drown? [laughter]

>> That's crazy.

>> Um all right. So getting back to your production, you know, you um the last two clutches you had of the year, can you can we run through those ones of the most recent ones that you had? Um they were pretty close to each other, right?

>> Yeah, they hatched out um about a month a month apart.

>> Yeah, let's talk about it. What was the pairing? All that good stuff.

>> So, the first one was um a one of Garrick's animals, Kronos Siren, and [snorts] he was paired with an animal that was produced by um my partner and best friend Kaye and Jay Taylor. So, they produced um from a cyclops to a TK animal um some babies that really kind of like blew up originally um because they had that really super like insanely bold pattern. And she kept two of those u one ended up a female and one ended up a male. And [snorts] the female is at my house and her name is Halo. Um, and she's got she's got a gorgeous green color with just the these giant blue triangles. And the goal was because the male also had a really bold uh dorsal pattern and the babies that he had back in 202 um 4, those babies had a really bold pattern as well. So, the goal was to kind of just end up with bold patterns all the way around. Uh, and we definitely we got that. We got one that was more normal, one that's that is bold, but it doesn't look bold next to like the crazy uh super bold one,

>> right?

>> We didn't get any reds, so I I don't have anything to compare. [laughter]

>> I don't have anything to compare.

>> The sire came from Garrick, right?

>> Yes, the sire.

>> Say that again. You didn't get any what?

>> We didn't get any red.

>> All right, guys. That's all we have for tonight. [laughter] I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding.

>> That's very interesting. So the sire came from Garrick and it was red.

>> Yeah.

>> He produced with a yellow female obviously, right?

>> Right.

>> And you produced all yellow neos.

>> All yellows. Yeah. But it is small sample size. It was only three

>> only three eggs. There was a fourth egg, but there was it made it all the way through incubation. There was nothing in it.

>> Yeah.

>> Like it never went bad. There was It was just nothing.

>> Interesting. Like, dude, listen. We all I say say what you got to say about yellows, but this is the kind of [ __ ] right here that makes every yellow lover in a good place because this this is insane. I I really love what you have going on here. And and and and do the parents have any kind of descendant um like other kind of clutches that showing stuff like this, Carly? Were you expecting getting a neolate Nate? Like with this kind of patterning and the other ones that you got, which we're going to

>> Yeah. So, I mean the um the GG animal had produced prior with a with like a sarong lineage female and [snorts] they had some really bold babies, but it wasn't anything like that. That I'm telling you came from the mom. That came from the mom because the mom had this like insane bold pattern. Uh and her mother as a neonate also had it. and her mom was bred to a cyclops uh u by Tad oh I can't say his last name. It starts with D

>> Dwayne.

>> Yes. He produced a batch of cyclopses and that male was then bred to the TK female. Um which has a a pretty decent lineage that's from Maxwell, Greg Maxwell. Have you noticed, Carly, any of any of [clears throat] those animals to go on to like once they go through their OC, do they look different? Like I'm just trying to like compare like bla like blaze neos. Blaze yellows.

>> Blaze yellows that I've had in Jerger used to produce exclusively blaze yellows. Um, super cool when they were Neos, but they didn't eventually evolve into, you know, something that you could look at and say, "Oh, wow. That was a blaze Neo."

>> Are you

>> I mean I that one right there that's going to keep its pattern. I have no doubt that that's probably going to turn bright blue like the mom because the mom you can still see every ounce of her the pattern that she had. I posted her on my story

>> um today this afternoon. So she's the it's the older picture of the yellow neo with like the giant triangles on it. And she's got she's still the same. It's just instead of it being red and um yellow.

>> This one

>> is No, keep going. That's glacier.

>> Oh, this one.

>> That one. That's the mom.

>> Yeah, that's [ __ ] beautiful.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> That's going to be a lot of blue then. If that if that uh red pattern eventually red um uh dorsal ends up turning blue, that's going to be a lot of blue. Yeah, that's everywhere that is red on her on there is still blue on on her now. And the brother the brother that Kaylee has. And then um Dan McMillion had one. He sold it. I don't know who he sold it to, but it was also really bold as well. But all of them have kept that really bold blue pattern. So that was kind of the intention was to kind of bring that out a little bit. Um and we definitely saw it. I kind of I I do wish that we had gotten a red because I would have liked to see how her bold influence happened on a on a red.

>> On a red. Yeah, for sure.

>> Dude, this snake gives me fish vibes without the black. I know fish don't got no black, but this right here is like this. Was this a yellow neonate?

>> No, it's a red.

>> Oh, man. That's fire. Okay. Is that mom on here at all, Carly? Is that that that we're talking about?

>> Yeah. So, if you um Well, if you go you can go to that story. Um it's the One of the 2025 clutches. Not the most recent one. Probably that one.

>> Second one. All right. [sighs] These are so cool. Story by Carly.

>> So, there's the dad and there's mom.

>> All right. There's the mom bill. Yeah. Look, look at that pattern. It's still there, dude. Damn. That's nice.

>> Really, really nice.

>> [ __ ] All right. I mean, yeah, that's nice.

>> Pat says that we should redo that pairing. Exactly. Um,

>> I would say you need more. So good.

>> Yeah, you need more of those. You know what I realized too? You know, I think I should redo the pairing that that made fish. I would be stupid not to. I feel like I feel like that that's what's important to like almost you got to duplicate whatever it is that you made that you're amazed about. And there's not enough yellows like that out there, Carly. So that's I feel like that's kind of what's going to, you know, give you guys a boost if anything. You know what I mean?

>> Well, there's there's there's a lot of good reasons to do repeat pairings.

>> Yes.

>> You know, probably the first and foremost is that, you know, they're compatible.

>> Yeah.

>> You know, you know, um, so,

>> well, they definitely did, but like I said, the only thing with her is the whole issue with the with getting, you know, a respiratory infection. That's obviously not ideal. Um, especially because I'm not going to hit her with septaz when she's gravid.

>> Yeah.

>> Um, so

>> what what did you do? Do you just let her ride it out?

>> No. Uh um nebulized her with amicasein.

>> How bad was it though? Like cuz there I feel like there's levels to um the r [ __ ] you know? Like there's severe and then there's like okay her mouth is open a little bit. She's breathing garling. Like how bad was it?

>> The the later. Yeah. I mean it it wasn't like dear god I think we're going to lose her. Um but it was like I really don't like this.

>> Yeah. But

>> I had a female just recently and I feel like this always happens. You know, I had that one cold front that we finally got. I I left my window open. She's right here. And sure enough, I saw like, you know, she had a little RARI. She had a little mouth thing. So, [ __ ] swabbed her, put her in the incubator for 3 days, and that [ __ ] was healed up. And and then when I put her back in, I just made sure her basking was like at 86, 87, like a lot higher than what I just gave her basking. And not a week later, uh, she shed and she looks great. She's perfect.

>> Well, and that's why I mean it's it cleared up. I mean, she was still a little bit on the like, um, obvious respiratory infection side when she laid.

>> Yeah.

>> Which obviously made me really nervous about it, but then just I mean, it just went away.

>> Yeah.

>> That's not the first time that that has happened. So, it it gives me suspicions that she's just I don't know. Maybe she's just dramatic.

>> Yeah. Um,

>> obviously, uh, Carly, you said you swabbed her. Uh, obviously you checked her for

>> Naido. Did you do bacterial swab as well or just treat her with the amicas and

>> Yeah, I mean, we ran a full culture on her. So,

>> and and did it come back like the uh did the culture grow and it was it grew bacteria and and they were sensitive to the amicasin?

>> Yeah,

>> they I mean they would have been s sensitive to the septaz too, but septaz I don't I don't know an injectable on a gravid female just doesn't that's not something I want to do.

>> Yeah. Um I had Socrates and Allen. Um I don't you remember Allan Bill the other basin guy? Um I I think you might have met him once at least at Tinley. I could have sworn you have. Um, but they both had females that got ri right in the middle of them being real gravid and gave him um maybe it was for I can't remember. Maybe it was maybe it was the other one. Uh not benadryil. What's the other one? Um anyways, they gave him something that ended up [ __ ] ruining the whole pregnancy basically. Um and then the I know one of out of the two females didn't make it. So it's just not something good to intere with. I feel like, you know, or just if you do expect that whole pairing just to go to [ __ ] you know what I mean? If you are going to uh put medicine in them, so sucks.

>> Um, but other than that, did you have any kind of [ __ ] up things happened to you this year? And we always talk about horror stories with Condro, and I don't want to bring up bad stuff, but anything that you want to put awareness out that maybe you experienced this year? Um, I had a lot, and I feel like I should do a whole episode around it, but I want to hear what you what you what you went through this year, Carly.

>> I I can't say that I think that I don't think that we really had anything bad happen this year. Now, I did have I lost that male, but that was last year.

>> Oh, do you want to talk about that?

>> Oh, we can. Yeah,

>> man. All right.

>> What happened there?

>> All right. Well, hold on. Let's talk about what snake this was first and foremost. Let's let's let's see why this is such a deep story.

>> I I remember now. Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> Take it away, Carly.

>> Yeah, that Yeah. So, that was um the barn. I had picked up two um animal two calos from um Christian Stewart. I picked up a a male and a female and they both were great. They came in, they were perfectly fine.

>> Um

>> sorry.

>> Yeah, that one.

>> They came in and they were great. I didn't have any issues out of any of them. Um and unfortunately, of course, it happened when I wasn't home. So, I had fallen um down our stairs when I was heavily pregnant and ended up on I had to go into the emergency room and they kept me at labor and delivery for 48 hours, which was miserable. And I'm somebody who goes and I you know I lay eyes on my animals every single day.

>> Yeah.

>> So, I I kid you not, I cuz my front door is literally just right here. This is the front room. walked in, you know, and he was in a camro tub and I looked over, saw something that looked weird and came and sure enough, he had um probably the largest prolapse I have ever seen.

>> Yeah, it's pretty bad.

>> So, uh I was exhausted, everyone was exhausted. Um

>> yeah,

>> but we worked really, Greg and I worked really diligently to um attempt to, you know, get everything out without rupturing anything. Um and then

>> was it really backed up? Like was there was there a lot to get out? Like was it

>> No, there there really wasn't.

>> Yeah,

>> there really wasn't that much.

>> Like a two-year-old animal? Looks like it's about two.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. So that was that was a hard hit. That was a very hard hit. Um, I kind of took a step back from the uh Instagram for a little bit.

>> Yeah, it's reality.

>> So, I don't think I actually came back to doing a lot of posting um or like being in groups or anything until after the baby was there and whatnot because I was like, I'm going to take a break. This is not something I need with the hormones and you know, we're getting ready to have a baby. I was on bed rest at that point. So,

>> we just took a break from it. But,

>> it's a lot to deal with. You know what I mean? Um, especially like, okay, money aside, even though, you know, it's a really expensive animal, but money aside, you love that animal. Like, that was

>> um, you know, enough for you to [ __ ] invest in it and and and you have plans, you know, and and things just don't go to plan all the time, right, Bill? Like, it's

>> you are going to be tested so many times. And the scary thing is like that's probably not Carly's ever last [ __ ] test in this game. Like, it's going to keep happening. You know what I mean? And so, thank you for sharing that, by the way. I know sometimes I've known people who said, "I don't want to bring it up at all." I mean, Bill didn't talk about the sickness for a good year or so publicly, right? Like,

>> oh,

>> I didn't even I didn't even know. I remember messaging you and being like, "Oh, can I come? Can I come see?" And you're like, "Oh, yeah. Um, no, [laughter]

>> but you did come."

>> I did come, but you meant like, "No, you can't come see the sickness."

>> No.

>> Um, and you're like, "Oh, yeah. He's he's gone."

>> Yeah. And I'm I'm sitting here scrolling through Facebook. I'm like, did I miss something? That was so rude of me to bring up.

>> No, I mean, I still remember the day I walked in there and saw him just, you know, dead on the on the floor. Uh, no prolapse, no, you know, he had skipped a meal maybe the week before. Um, it's the only snake I've ever gotten a necropsy on.

>> Yeah.

>> But yeah, I I still remember the day I walked in there and was like, damn, this this is tough. And

>> and that was cancer, wasn't it?

>> Yeah, it was renal kidney cancer.

>> Yeah.

>> Tumor.

>> That's at the end of the day, these snakes, that's the thing is they they get sick. They have issues. They have heart issues.

>> Yeah.

>> They'll you'll end up with cancers, tumors, all sorts of stuff.

>> Okay, Carly, tell Bill. I don't know if Bill you remember me explaining this, but I you know my manukan scrub pythons that I had, Bill, the

>> Yeah. So my my female that now Carly has, she lost her tongue. Her tongue her tongue rotted off. And Carly, why don't you explain what the hell you found out my female Malucan, my exantic malucan had and what she Well, she's clear of it now, but what why don't you explain what that how that scenario what happened?

>> Yeah. So I mean, well, you had told me that she had what did you say? What's like an injury or something?

>> I fed her I tried to bump her meal up. So, it was like the first large rat I gave her. And then a couple days later, it looked like it was [ __ ] but it I'm now that I think about it, I think she regurged it because maybe it was too big or something. And I'm and I'm thinking the regurg because it was a big [ __ ] rat. And we know how kind of claws a large rat has. And I'm thinking something something punctured her tongue while she was either eating it or puking it up or something cuz it caused that infection down there. And that's

>> that isitis.

>> Yeah. And that's what I was told, you know, from the vet that I took it to before I sent it over to you. Uh, but they didn't tell me the tongue was gone. You know what I mean? So, go ahead. That That's

>> I got her in. I had a a wonderful vet that I actually used to work for. Um, so I've have access to that kind of stuff. And we took her in. We got her um checked out. We did a culture because she had a little bit of a um kind of like a little bit of a pooch under her throat. Um, and obviously the no tongue issue was was really interesting. Checked it out. Definitely no tongue, but there wasn't any damage done to like the bottom mandibular areas or anything like that. So, it was just more likely a case of stomatitis that just kind of rotted that tissue off. And she acts and eats just fine. Um, but she did have so she had a secondary bacteria that is notorious anytime you get an animal that is stressed out. um and which is exactly what happened to that girl. Anytime you get one that is had an injury, been stressed out, anything like that,

>> pseudomonus is the most opportunistic bacteria you will ever see

>> and you don't have to come in contact with it. It just sneaks in like it's normal. It just is around. And then when you get an animal that's even slightly immuno compromised, stressed or anything like that, they can end up with pseudomonus. Um, which is super easy to treat thankfully. Um, so we got her, you know, treated with that and she's perfectly fine. She's perfectly fine now.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> Doesn't need that tongue.

>> No, she don't need it.

>> She does not need that. the the narcopsy you got on sickness, was that the one and only you would ever do, Bill, or will you ever do one if you need to? Like what what's your what's your stance on that?

>> I I don't know. I guess it all depends on the circumstance and the animal. Um ultimately, it's not going to change anything. Um

>> it gives mind though.

>> Yeah, a little bit of peace of mind. That was right around the time that I guess Nido had been around for a while. Um, obviously they can, you know, they they can test for nido and a necropsy. It was nido negative.

>> Um, so yeah, that was really the reason that I, you know, wanted to do the necropsy. I guess somebody on the show

Has done has done a Nido test on a deceased animal, right? A swab. Is that right, MJ?

Yeah. Well, some Yeah. So, somebody got a snake in and then it died. And I can't remember if he I I think he did. Okay. So this snake came in and died. He froze it and then he unfroze it and then he tested it and it still came back positive.

Yeah, that from what he said. And I don't know how that works. I mean, I know freezer can kill some [ __ ] but god damn, how bad was this Naido? Like god, how [ __ ] dude, not even a freezer could kill it. I mean, I don't know. And so or I don't know, you know, like I said, I I I feel like um at the end of the day, there's just uh I mean, there's definitely ways to avoid it, but the thing that matters to me if a snake dies is I don't give a [ __ ] about the Nido test, man. Let me know this thing to not die of Nidato. And if it was some sort of cancer, God bless. But I understand people like you, Carly, who like to geek out and want you want to know the source or the root of the problem, which I get that. I wish I was more like that. I'm just not. I don't.

Yeah. It's not a matter of geeking out. I I think what it really comes from I'm really hard on myself. So I want to know if something happened um you know like I've had three animals I've had three animals that have I knew for a fact they did not have nido um that I've had past and I've had necropsies done on all of them and the I want to know that it wasn't my fault [clears throat] that it wasn't something that I did that I need to fix in my husbandry. Um, sometimes that makes me feel worse because it's it's like, dang, there's there was nothing I could have done. So, that's really irritating, but it just gives me peace of mind that that I'm doing everything right. I I'm sorry, but the kneecropsy coming back and saying well hydrated, well body conditioned. That makes me feel good like I was doing something right. It just couldn't have been prevented.

Yeah. All right. Before we shift things into uh some yellow talk, um I want to know how the establishing went overall this year? Like anything you did differently this year than last year? How was your like mood going into it? Like were you kind of like, "Fuck, here we go." Or, you know, were you like, "All right, bring it on type of thing." Where were you at this year with it when it came to establishing?

Honestly, I can't say that I had a lot of issues, which I I think this most recent clutch, the the high yellow clutch, um yeah, I guess I'm weird. That one is giving me a couple. There's a few of them that are giving me a bit of a headache. Um, they're notorious. They're like I've never seen them like attack a freaking pinky but they're not actually hitting it. They're like they're all over the place and I'm like that the calc do that. I was talking about it earlier when I first I was talking about how I think Bill you remember me talking about how the calcos were striking at thin air and I was like what the [ __ ] are these things doing? And they would even strike, miss, and then corkcrew. Like they would act like they did catch something and they would like turn and then they they would fall off the perch. It was very weird.

Mine I'm tell these are doing the exact same thing cuz I'm like why are you so crazy? Why are you so spazzic by the back of the [ __ ] neck and it's go time. That's all you got to do, man. Seriously. Hey, you're going to go nowhere with that snake. I'll tell you right now, those snakes that were doing that to me after three, four [ __ ] meals, send it to Dagistan. Forget about it. They were good, dude. They They're [ __ ] savages now. They're They're ready to go. So that whole, you know, trying to get this weirdo to eat thing, dude. Don't even waste your time with it now, Carly. I'm telling you, it's assist feeding is the way to go. I'm telling you.

I I don't ever like me. I don't It's probably my technique. It's probably my technique. I don't have good luck with assist feeding baby condro. They will always spit that [ __ ] out. Always.

Get it down there, dude. Don't be Don't be shy. You got to get it down there. What What do you do, Bill? Like I this year I wasn't shy about [ __ ] getting it down to the back of their throat to where they can't get it out. But what do you do, Bill?

I mean, you know, I I don't know without watching like Carly do it, you know, do it. It's hard to say, you know, whether you know, maybe she's trying too big of of an assist meal or may, you know, not getting it down there far enough. What What were you trying to assist feed? you're trying gizzards or pinks or pink heads or?

Well, I'm not doing gizzards anymore because I'm afraid of neurological issues.

I don't blame you, but so the babies that I just had, so I've already assisted one of them, the babies that those babies are huge. They're massive. Like the biggest one is was 16 grams. Um, so I'm just using the regular day old pinkies. you know, I give them a chance, but like I said, they're doing the [ __ ] stuff and then they start running. Um and I'm not going to get anywhere with that. So, like the other one that I did the other day, I I'll put it in there and chomp they chomp down on it really hard and I'm like, "Okay, maybe that's all you need." And then they just spit it out. But I'm telling you, I have shoved it all the way down. I have all the way down and they spit it out.

I'll tell you just from experience, you know, with pinks, I've had similar experience. Very difficult to assist feed a fulls size pink. Um they either they either explode or they just turn into mush and you can't very it's it's difficult to get those things down.

Yeah. But I mean, I did I got it all the way down in the throat and they're like bowing up and like squeezing it out back out.

Yeah. But are you are you putting them in the tub with no perch? No. Like you gotta leave them in the tub and let them do their [ __ ] thing for like 30 45 minutes sometimes.

But that's the thing is it it's down and then they'll spit it right back out.

I think I would try mouse tails.

Yeah. [clears throat] Mouse tails or rat tails.

Mouse tails. Mouse tails. Looks good. That's not enough. Like I I remember doing mouse tails a while back and the snake was not looking good. like and maybe could have been something else going on with it, but I just remember like the mouse tail almost wasn't like >> fulfilling the snake's body weight. Like it was just almost not really doing anything to it. Um

I think if nothing else, it teaches you >> how to do the assist feed because it's really easy and it teaches them how to swallow.

Yeah. Um, which I think the two most important things nutritional value is, you know, is almost zero in a mouse tail. Yeah, but it does teach you how to do it and it teaches them how to swallow.

Do mouse legs all day, Carly? Because they'll get their teeth caught onto the fur and that [ __ ] will it won't go. Like it'll just I had one just sit there with a [ __ ] mouse leg for like like hours and then it just eventually had no choice but to eat. I think I even left it overnight. I was so frustrated with it saying [ __ ] figure it out, dude. And then I came the next morning, sure enough, it was a little lump in its buddy in in his body. So, yeah. Yeah, I've had them spit out mouse legs.

Yeah, I think you just got to put just keep going. Like I definitely had a couple. You're not wrong with that because I had a couple where I had to go back in there and do it again. I did, you know, there was a couple I at least did two, three times and uh but then I just didn't get shy of putting that [ __ ] [ __ ] down there. And so, um but yeah, you know those ones so those ones that I um I that I got sent after that mail that I purchased, remember the whole $10,000 female that had Nido?

Yeah. And I got sent two red Neos. Yeah. That had literally only been giving a a mouse head before they came to me. Um Yeah. They went to freezer camp. Um because after six months of assist feeding them, I was like, "You're done."

Yeah. Yeah. You get an idea. Like they were dro They were losing weight. They were getting smaller.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, if they're if they're just eating heads or or mouse tails um or really almost anything, they are eventually going to they're not going to assist not going to sustain them.

Yeah, I was assist feeding and let's be honest, it wasn't assist feeding. I was forcefeeding them.

I mean, I was having to shove it all the way down.

Yeah. Um a a rat leg, like a weaned rat leg every three days for six months and they were dropping weight.

Yeah, dude. I d I talk about this. I mean, you could easily stunt a [ __ ] condro female. Like, if you're not getting them on the right track for long enough, they they almost just don't grow after a while. Um, and no matter what. And then, and what sucks is when you try to hit them with food hard, they die. Like, they don't their body at that point just can't handle a lot of food because they went years without eating, right? And I feel like, you know, you're working that stomach to to to handle bigger and bigger meals as it's growing, which prime time doing that is at the young stage, right? But when you have a steak that's not been really neglected, but you just have people that feed a lot smaller than others. Like, you know, we talked about Ryan Young and he made that deal with that other dude where he sent some snakes and his snakes were a lot bigger than Ryan's because Ryan doesn't feed heavy. Um, but the guy was expecting some big [ __ ] females, which it all depends on how you feed the animal. Um, not every female is going to be big, and that's just kind of what it comes down to.

Um, I have a qu dude. Hey, listen. We always talk about Trap Talks Global. Well, guess what? We have somebody tapped in all the way from PNG. That's right. This guy's literally he says, "Hello, hello everyone." Uh, his as this is Asuka from Monory. He's from Monory, Bill. Maybe you can hook it up.

Nice. I love it.

Yeah, he has a question. Um, he wants and this is actually a good topic because, uh, we brought this up before as far as cooler temps having the effect on an animal. Like, so he's saying, "Will cooler temperature during the rainy season affect the health of a snake? A few days ago, he went to the rainforest and found six condro, four of them had chicken poo. I don't know what that is, but chickenpox, maybe.

Maybe chicken pox. I don't know. But

I don't know what that is.

I know they these things handle a natural drop easily. Um, I think there's also a limit to it, right? I mean, what's your take, Bill? Like, as far as like if somebody were to ask you, "What's the coldest I should get my room to?" Um, even though you do things how you do it, what would you recommend someone not going below if it came down to a temperature in the room? You would say,

you know, I think as long as you're giving them daytime heat, you know, I think it's it's safe to drop them down into the, you know, 70 degree mark. I I've come out in my room and it's been 68 degrees. Um, but I I shoot for 70 degrees at nighttime cycling. That's with the heat off. Um, but then to have full exposure to daytime uh normal heat, you know, normal temperatures, 84, 85 degrees. Um, so I think you can, and you know, we all know, we've all seen the temperatures in in Indo, you know, it can get freaking cold at night night. Um, so but if the heat it gets warm like fresh in the morning that that that cold turns into like a now humid 80 degrees pretty quickly like am 80 and it feels like 90, you know, with with the humidity.

I'm I'm the last person, you know, I think comparing what they do in the wild to what we do with them in captivity is a starting point. Yeah. But I don't think, you know, just because they can tolerate this or that in the wild doesn't necessarily mean that they'll tolerate that um in captivity. It's a good place to start, but you know, I think we've we've evolved and you know, we've been dealing with these things for decades now. And

yeah, you know, I think I think we know what's you know, what's this what's safe for them and what's not safe. You know, if somebody's saying I'm dropping my tents down to 60 at night, say, well, you know, that's probably a little excessive. First of all, they don't need it.

Yeah. You know, they need a very, if you're temperature cycling, they need a very mild um, you know, drop in temperatures. They're they're so sensitive to temperature and humidity um that five degrees is a big deal to them or it can be. Don't need to drop it any more than that.

What What do you think, Carly?

Yeah, I mean, I I agree. I I mean I take mine down um my normal nighttime drop is to uh 76 and then when I'm cycling it goes down to 72. So I mean and I I offer I offer heat um less so like not as much during the day, not as many hours, but I don't think that there's any need to drop them down into the 60s. I think that that's if especially if you're cycling an animal. Yeah. Um, not only are you stressing it out because you're introducing a whole another level of stuff, but you're also stressing it out because you're taking it way too low. That was just a recipe for disaster if you're sending something down into the 60s. Don't do that.

Yeah. I mean, it's like, okay, shout out to Dan the man. You know, Dan's in town, Bill. I think I sent a pitch in the chats. Saw that. And he's like, "Dude, everyone's back home so jealous of me because it's it was 85 today in San Diego. It's it's one degree in Boston." Okay. And so here's it like okay here we are in San Diego but then we have somebody in Boston us humans don't need it to be one degree for us to function or for like just because it's a certain degree in a certain area doesn't mean we need it to to to survive. So just as much as it's a conjo might deal with some low low temps it doesn't need the low low temps like it just it's able to deal with it because that's where it's from. But we don't need to mimic the wild. Like that's that's one thing that people need to realize like captivity [ __ ] is a lot different when it comes to [ __ ] in the wild, you know, and you don't need to mimic the wild. You really don't.

I don't think a single one of these would survive.

No. Out in the wild. Bunch of freaks, bunch of hybrids. No, they'll be dead.

No, would not survive. I've got Box back here. I don't think that they would survive it either. They're quite pampered at this point. That's what people like I see. So many people that are like, "We need to recreate." Well, in the wild they this Well, in the wild they have bioactive crap and stuff like that. Like,

hey, hey, hey, hey, we're pro bioactive on Trap Talk. Okay, let people live. Let them do their thing. Okay,

we are. Why? We are, dude.

There goes my sponsor for next year. Thanks a lot, guys. I appreciate that. I'm just kidding. [laughter] But just like the same like this like I understand that the concept to them of cycling is there. The concept in any animal. My corgi is definitely not going to make it out with wolves. But I can tell you he's still got a winter coat this year just like nature tells him to get.

Yeah. He ain't taking down deer or anything. So, I mean,

I think people understand that like you don't have to like these animals are so far removed from the wild. That doesn't make sense to to treat them as such.

Yeah. But then again, like if you're like on the keeping side and breeding just isn't important to you. You want one or two and you want to go ballistic and learn, go ahead, do go for it. Have fun. Let me know how it works. Um, and I and it's not impossible. I That's the thing. I've seen some enclosures out there. I should do a follow-up on on these, make sure the animals are still alive. But I've seen some enclosures that seem to be pretty [ __ ] awesome and have condro or either an emerald living in it, but it's like it's just, okay, can you do a 100 condos like that? I don't think, you know, it's the test of time. Can you keep them alive five years like that?

That's exactly follow up. Let's follow up in a few years. You know, I don't want to do a hundred like this. I don't want to do a hundred. [laughter] That's too many.

And listen, MJ, I agree. You know, I think bioactive can be done successfully, but you really have to know what you're doing. You got to be a really you've got to be a condro connoisseur and you've got to be a bioactive connoisseur.

It takes a detail oriented person to do that with a lot of attention.

Yes. And and like MJ, like you said, you got one or two that you're dealing with, you know, great. Get in there every day and pick out through that substrate and pick out every piece of mold that you can find and [ __ ] and urate and all that. You know, [laughter] you got 50 animals. Yeah, good luck with that.

Hey, there's an isopod in your snake's nostril. You might want to get [laughter] see WHAT YOU GUYS DO TO ME, DUDE. GOD DANG IT. I'M SO SORRY. UM, all right, Carly, back to business. Um, so yellows. Okay, listen. I I love your energy for the yellows cuz you know, you like the nicer things in life. Like you're bougie, Carly. That's what I like about you. You like the finer things in life, but here we are. You're [ __ ] coattelling yellows for some reason. We all know reds are the bee's knees, dude. Okay, but that energy's, you know, the yellow and reds are on the same level. I feel like in your head. I want to I want to hear how that is. What what makes you so bought into the yellows? Let's give them the flowers that you want to give them. But also, you know, let's branches to some keyline talk as well.

Everybody does blue and black. Everybody does blue and black and I feel like it's a lot easier and no hate at all, but I do feel like it's a lot easier to get into the blue and black than it is high yellow because you can go somebody can go to Bill and Bill's got amazing, you know, ingredients for a whole thing. You know, somebody can go to, you know, Stephen's got some amazing things that he's doing right now. It's just a lot easier for people to go, "Okay, I got this. I got this. I got this." Put them together in a couple of years and boom, you've got more blue and you've got more black. The high yellow is a lot harder, I feel like, to recreate and get the desired results that you want because they are yellow. A lot of them, especially the the better ones that I have seen that are coming from the yellow neos, they have that opportunity to still be more um to be more green than you would necessarily want. And I have definitely seen two high yellow animals put together that you do still get green. So, I feel like there's just a lot more fine-tuning and a lot more um I don't know, just a lot more work that goes into to producing really amazing results with the high yellows. But then once you've got it, you've got it. I mean, look at John. A lot of John's stuff is just consistently spitting out high yellow over and over and over.

Yeah. So, I mean, to me, um, well, for starters, yellow is my favorite color. So, that is is just part of it to begin with.

I thought pink was your favorite color.

No, it's not. It's not. I only do the pink just to remind everybody that I'm not a guy. Um, [laughter] and you better bet everybody who's getting a package today is getting really nice pink paper. Did you like that pink paper, MJ? Yeah, she sent me all and it was like the [ __ ] the paper that gets everywhere. Okay. Like it's like a it's what what is it? What do you call that paper?

Crinkle paper. Pink. Very pink. I still might I still might have some on the floor somewhere. I'm not joking. It's

Is that what is that what the box was shoved with? Pink paper. [laughter]

With love, Bill. With love. Pink paper. I got pink paper. I got pink envelopes. And now instead of the envelopes, I have got I still have the pink envelopes to um Yes. So that's stickers and stuff. But I also have these wonderful um they're I mean, they're like little, you know, like this size. Yes. And it's got like all the information in it. And they're pink, too. [laughter]

That's dude that honestly I give you kudos on the effort and you putting that, you know, to Carly's touch. It's your touch. And I think people should do that in in this game. Be different and let people know what you're getting from me is special. And this is why it's special because it's pink. I also just I just I get a really big kick out of the fact that there is so many men in the like industry and I in the back of my head I just see this big burly man opening this package full of pink [ __ ] and it just makes me smile.

Carly, I wanted to ask you with your experience, have you found that the nicer looking yellow adults come from yellow neos or red neos? What?

I've seen both that have looked looked incredible. I've seen both, but it it seems to be um it just seems to be more consistently with the yellows for for you.

But not it's not even just for me. I mean, when you look at a lot of John's stuff, if we're talking the high yellow stuff, we're not talking about John Lucky. If we're not talking about his

What about what about socks high yellow line that have that are red neonates? I mean, I love my boyfriend Socrates that is high yellow, but he's got more green on him than the yellow girl back here did.

Yeah, I know. But that's not the only example, but I'm just saying like Yeah. If you had if you had a clutch, um, you know, let's just say you have a clutch and there's five yellow babies and there's five red babies and and the like that line has a lot of high yellow babies. Like I expect those to be I expect the yellow ones to have a better result. That's why like the babies that I just got done hatching.

Yeah. You know, there's only two yellow neonates in that clutch and the rest are reds. I'm keeping those two yellows. They're not going anywhere. The reds are.

Yeah. Bill, I don't care how nice the reds look. Bill, if you were to guess, is that a red or yellow neonate? If you were to just guess.

Everyone knows who Magic is. Well, to be honest, I don't know if it's red or red or yellow. And I am certainly no expert at uh yellow neonates. That's why I wanted to have Carly on so I could learn learn some stuff about uh about yellow neos. If I had to guess and throw it out there, I'd say that was a red.

So, here's the thing. Okay, my my thing is yellow. Okay, yellows do make some amazing high yellows, but reds could do the exact same thing with the right lineage is what I'm trying to prove. Like,

is that a red or yellow? They definitely can. I mean, they definitely can. No one's saying that they can't, but I'm just saying that I have seen the the yellow um just be more it I've just seen it more passed down with yellow babies.

Yeah. Okay. Because I think here's what we're talking about. Look at this yellow and and and I'm going to give you I want to be devil's advocate. I want to play both sides. So this is a yellow neonate that I think is still [ __ ] like this from what I remember being at Sock's house. And that is a different type of yellow right there. You're right. The reds can't pull something off like that.

Yeah. To me, that looks like it was a yellow neo.

It was. Yeah. That's a That's a yellow right there.

Okay. What about the animal before that?

That was a red.

That was a red. Okay.

But, you know, without but but like, you know, obviously we got people who know what the [ __ ] we're talking about. For the person who has no idea, they're going to guess probably yell neonate on that snake we just looked at before because it's it's really not that easy to tell if you don't know what you're looking at. If you're not looking at the eyes, the pattern if you're just looking I had so many people uh shout out to our our boy Chase in the chats, but Chase is a younger guy. He's really geeking out over condro. He we we had a long talk and he sent me a bunch of snakes that were high yellow that he thought were yellow neonates. I'm like, "Bro, those are all red neonates." And he was like, "What?" And so again, the the Reds could do exactly what the yellows can do in a sense. Not there's levels to it, which we're going to talk to Keeline because Reds ain't doing no Keel key line [ __ ] I'll tell you that much. And and that's that's some fine dining right there when it comes to yellows. But before we get to Keeline, what what are you really banking on when it comes to yellows besides Keeline stuff? Like what is it? The JL JL stuff that you're working or what high yellow stuff are you really just passionate about, Carly? Other than Keeline, because we're going to get to it right now.

I have a whole like I have a whole project that I'm I'm I have a whole thing that I'm I'm trying to get at. Um it's it's a I don't know that I'll get there. Um Matt Morris was trying for the longest before he had um some issues. Um but I'm wanting to do high yellow um with uh instead of like the green speckles that you'll see.

Yeah. Black.

Yeah. That that was always Matt Morris's project. His dream was to produce high yellow and high black.

Yeah, that's I don't necessarily want high black. I still want the animals to be high yellow, but like yellow, not mustard. Yellow.

Okay. So, brighter than this is what you're saying.

Yeah. So, that's I would consider that mustard. I want like Lumen, the girl that I that just laid for me, my really high yellow girl.

I see what you're saying. She's really high yellow and she's got like white and um green speckles to her. Where the green is, I would like to see black.

Okay. You know what? And also a good a good historical thing with the red neonates that go yellow, a lot of them become a mustard yellow. Like they they don't stay the bright yellow that we're talking that the yellows are. So, we're talking a whole different shade of yellow for sure.

Yeah. I I'm I'm wanting the like bright vibrant sunflower yellow. and with the black speckles. Um, I don't want any blue. I don't want any green. So, we'll see if we'll see if I'm able to get there. I know some people are really like John's got some animals that are are really similar to that. Mark's doing great things. I mean,

yeah, I was just going to mention Mark because he he's producing some yellow neonates that have quite a bit of melanism in them as well.

Oh, for sure. Um, we'll we'll see. I was acting like I was on Mark Hager strike. I don't know why we haven't brought that guy up yet. It's crazy. We're already an hour deep and we have not brought up Mark once. Um, sorry, Mark. I swear to God, I'm not mad at you. Um, but yeah, look at this [ __ ] Jesus, man. Mark's been that guy with the yellows. We all know that. Um, smoking it. But you're definitely helping him right now, Carly. Like helping improve a lot of points that, you know, yellows are definitely something not to take light to and and not to skip out on either. Um, and before we get into King Life stuff, Bill, um, when was the last time you made a yellow? Did you make any yellows this year? I could have sworn you maybe you made a couple.

Yeah, I had the uh flu uh bread manori. I have four yellows um neos from that and then I produced one other yellow earlier this year. Can't remember the pairing. Um but so yeah, five yellows this year.

One of Bill's yellows has done great work today or this year for me.

Nice. Tell me about that animal.

Yeah, tell me more. He's doing great. She's off food and she's my habitual runner. I mean, every time I put males in there with her, she grounds, she runs, and he said, "I don't care. We'll go to the ground." That's okay.

That's a real Hey, that's a real man right there.

Yeah. So, he's he's done great. So, that's uh that was a um Jagger Biscuit. Yep. And to a uh one of John's actually Lumen's sister. It was just she was just a red and now she's green. So, she's not high yellow, but the genetics are there for sure.

Yeah. My uh my one male that got the job done this year was a ground and pounder, too. He didn't he didn't give a [ __ ] Took that girl right to the corner and did his thing with her, man. Must be

appreciated. Must be a Phoenix reptiles thing. I don't know, man. [laughter] You should throw that into the ad. Like, by the way, into my marketing ground and pound friendly. [laughter]

Ground and pound. Listen, I've I've been saying it. Having good males, I ended up in, you know, that's why I had a a small season um this like last fall because of the fact that I've I didn't I ended up with bad Some people are not going to say that they're bad sex odds, okay? I ended up all females consistently. Everything was just turning out female. And I understand that's not bad for everybody, but when you've only got a few males and only one of them does any work, it is a bad thing.

How many How many females do you feel comfortable spreading a single male out to?

I So I don't feel comfortable taking them out at all until they've got the job done. I'd rather them put full effort into one than halfass effort into two.

Okay. Yeah. So, I've just basically left, you know, I've not kind of like tag teamamed mailed over. I've got one female that I I still haven't gotten any males to pair with. Um, and I I guess I could have taken one of the males that's been breeding um out and put them with, you know, with her and kind of like tag teamamed it over. But I I'm just trying not to push my luck. I also don't want a whole bunch of clutches at once. That's not something I wanted. Um, I walked in just I walked in and that's what I I was messaging in the trap chat and I was like, "Yeah." So, I mean, I walked into my office and this is what I see. I'm willing to bet that this thing is off of food. And I had already pulled the mail and I was like, "Please don't be off of food because I don't want an additional one." And sure enough, she didn't eat. And I was like, "Well, so good problem."

She's the one that laid 19 eggs last time. So, I I'd rather have those problems than other other problems, to be honest. So,

yeah. Yeah. I value my sanity though.

Ah, you'll be fine, dude. Send me some babies. You'll be all right. [laughter] You'll be good. You'll figure it out. You're built for this stuff. You know, you you know you want that kind of stress. You know, you do.

Built for this stuff. I cry at almost anything. I don't know that I'm built for this stuff. [laughter]

You know, a good a good strong fiveyear-old male, I'm comfortable tag team tag teaming him with two different females.

Yeah. You know, like literally just go one week with her.

Yeah. Few days off back in with female too and I'll do that, you know, typically during during the the breeding season.

I thought about it with the the love male um that I have. He's he is by far the best breeder. He would breed a sock.

Yeah. Convinced he would breed a sock.

Yeah, it's great to have it's great to have males like that. I've got a couple of them like that as well.

Um, I mean the boy that I got from you wasted no time. None. I mean, he didn't even wait. I put him in there and he didn't even wait five minutes.

Yeah. How old How old is that male?

Uh 21. 22 out of 21. So, four.

He's four. Damn. [snorts] It's a good age, I think.

Yeah. Great breeding age. Four is four is good. All right, Carly. So, um you know, you made quite the stir in a good way. You know, talking about some uh some imports that you and a buddy brought in. Um, you know, I'm just curious. Um, you know, what's the game plan? You know, this is it, right? My This is just I don't see King Lang in the post. I just want to make sure this is it. That's one of them, right?

That's Yeah, that's one of the males from Switzerland.

Okay, cool. So, can you explain this to me? Um, first and foremost, what what is a kingline? Um, and from what I understand, this this all started from a sang locality, which I'm I'm having a hard time believing, but can you tell us what you know as far as like how King Line started and whatnot?

Yeah. So I mean I being the where I am with with high yellows and stuff like that. I started in kind of seeing Kingline back I mean when I got into condro [snorts] and I fell in love with them. So I did a whole bunch of research um back then and they are I mean you're right they are a line of sarong. um when you talk to the guys who um created the line which is Felix Edinger and um I can't remember I feel bad that I can't remember the the other guys King and Edinger is the is the two names um and they basically which there is some language barrier but from my understanding there was a male a bunch of sarongs that import sarongs that were brought And there was a male that didn't finish the color change completely. Um there's actually a couple of YouTube videos on it that are really good if you can, you know, translate it. Um, but the the male didn't finish coloring up all the way and they bred that animal to a um a UK produced sarong that they will call they call blue line over there which is it from what I've seen it's just green serongs that have a like a really nice dorsal green blue to them and then those animals came out and they you know went through their OCC and they were green but they bred those babies so those F1s back to the original male and those popped out high yellow animals and from there it has been line bred um to produce animals like you're seeing right there. Now that one is not pure king line that does have lemon tree mixed into it.

Yeah. So

So pure

I want to see what a pure kingline looks like.

So a pure king line is a saron locality which is the one that you have right?

Yeah. All of the ones that both Matt and I have are strict are completely from the uh stock from King and Edinger. So they are direct descendants of um all those high yellow high yellow animals.

Some of those with the blue, you know, I would call.

Yeah. Me too. White. Yeah. White.

Blue, yellow, and blue, yellow, and green.

Yeah. Yeah. And the blue that blue is a lot more electric than it is in that photo was taken on like a cloudy day. The original photo that I posted of that animal is was outside, which is too cold outside now. But um it's if you go down a little bit, you'll find it. But it's um it's almost electric. Not Nope. Well, I mean that's that's one of the Germany ones. But

that's so [ __ ] nice. That's a nice looking animal. Um down more. You said

right there. Where? You can see it.

I can't look at this. I'm looking at the Instagram screen. Um, okay. This is it, right?

Yeah. Man.

Oh, Atlanta. Look at that.

Yeah. That's smoking. But look at all the blue in it.

Yeah. Look at that. It's electric blue, though. It's like a It's like a baby blue. Like a legit powder baby blue. I love that blue.

Yeah. Beautiful. So, what's the game plan, Carly? Are you trying to make more pure king lines? like do you want to prove out this look or is it already proven and you just want to go [ __ ] ape [ __ ] as far as what the possibilities are, you know?

I mean, it's pretty proven. Um I mean the the breeders that we, you know, we bought from um have seen pretty good results time and time again. Now, don't get me wrong, some of them have more green. So, like I have a female um that's the sibling to that one, and she definitely has more green. Um and her blue hasn't like popped like that. it's still kind of like in this like purpley stage and you can see it on his neck some um where it's still kind of purpley and then it turns that bright electric blue. So it definitely it you know that's a sibling that first one that uh if you go over so that's a sibling that Matt has um on the west coast because you know there's some on the east coast there's some on the west coast uh because that was a project that we did um jointly bringing those things over.

How many did you bring in Carly?

14. Wow.

Yeah. I didn't know you brought that many. 14.

Yes. Uh,

and what did you end up with sex-wise like at your place?

Um, at my place I have got two females, two males, four unsexed.

Okay. Damn.

Your plan is is just to continue to to breed those animals together or you going to outcross?

Yeah. No, I mean we so we'll be doing um we're going to breed them together. We do have outcross. I actually have a I bought a female sarong from Alex. Um so the goal is to kind of mix, you know, mix some US blood into that, especially because I don't want to just keep sibling pairing to sibling pairing, which is why, you know, we branched out and we went to the Switzerland ones. But even then, it's they're all still coming from kind of the same line. Like the parents were, you know, siblings and stuff like that. So, it definitely needs some outcrossing. John's stuff is going to go great in with it.

For sure. For sure. So, you you are going to outcross.

Yeah, 100%. Um, I'm actually hoping to put a lumen bounce back, which is the female that I had lay for me that um last uh in the spring [snorts] and she bounced back fantastic. I mean, she's already looking perfect. So, the goal is to pair her with one of the Germany males in the spring and to see what comes out of that. So, but now the the concern I guess that I have is that you know Kofi is a is a high yellow locality um a lot more related to Aru I think and you can mix that in and it doesn't necessarily show in like the first gen like it doesn't that high yellow like if you miss a mix a kofa to bak a lot of the times from my understanding and from what like Pat has told me is those don't end up being those offspring don't nearly end up as being as high yellow as like the like a Kofi parent would be. But the second generation if you mix those back into something like that then you get high yellows. So that might be something that's a bit of a um kind of a long haul and you know we'll kind of see where it gets but I'm hoping that mixing that in um I mean I I plan on mixing that into the TSK Calico kits that I have.

Oh, nice. So, it'll be interesting to see what you do with like a a high yellow king line. You mentioned Alex's serong, which if I remember right, is a green snake, right?

Yeah, she's green.

So, it'll be really interesting to see, you know, how many of those offspring turn out high yellow.

Yeah, I'll be holding I'm I am not a holdback connoisseur, I guess you could say. I don't D that stuff. Um typically um let it fly.

Do what? Let it fly.

Yeah. Uh so uh we will be doing that for sure. But the goal is definitely to kind of mix that stuff in.

I'm trying to be a little cool like Dave D trying. But sometimes it's hard. Somebody wants that snake. It's really hard to say, "Okay, I'm not going to take your money." Um, but my thing is so with that, like I don't like I get it that holdbacks have a there's a place, but I also I firmly believe that we are Oh, interesting. Okay. Well, we're going to see how that mixes in, too. Hi, Ryan. Good to Good to see you, buddy.

Yeah, we're gonna see how that mixes in, too. Uh, but the I don't want to hold everything back like because people are in this to get good stuff and I feel like if people can't don't like they can get something good from you like oh she's not going to sell anything good because she holds all the good stuff back then why would they buy from you to begin with? People want what they

can't have. Well, but I I don't know something about somebody getting like I had somebody sent me a picture of one of Hot Sauce's siblings and it's it was a red and it's I mean it's it's a high yellow. It's It's going high yellow. And um you know, I let that snake go and you know what? I'm happy about it because somebody got something really good out of my collection which you know I feel like will bring them to come back.

>> And that Bill talks about that good feeling all the time where he realized like, damn, I hooked that person up. And it's a good feeling. But Bill, how many times have people been on your bumper about a snake that you specifically said you're holding back and they still press for it anyways?

Plenty of times, right?

>> Yeah. But I don't hold that much stuff back. [laughter]

So,

>> so they know they know there's just a number they need to reach before you say yes.

>> Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And um you know, kind of like Carly said, I think there's a perception out there with people that breeders, you know, when they sell a Neo that they don't expect that Neo to end up being anything good, right? I mean, they're selling it because

>> they have low expectations. But once you start putting neos out there that turn into really really cool adult animals then you know

>> get excited.

>> Yeah. Then you know people like wow you know he they do release good stuff you know.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> So I think it just it it works itself out in the end. I think it you know you hate to give up an animal. You know I I hate to give up an animal. I see it two years later and it's just incredible looking. But I think in the end it works itself back around where that's why I have so many people wanting my animals, you know, because I I I think they realize that yeah, I'm going to release some really good [ __ ] [laughter]

>> I also have a spending problem. So

>> don't say Carly. [laughter]

>> So um if I sell snakes, I can buy snakes.

>> There you go.

>> Monopoly money.

>> Yeah.

>> There you go. It's funny if you do it right, you'll never really pay for a snake out of pocket if you get to a certain point. Takes time, but once you get to a certain point of having some play money, meaning stuff that you could sell, and you let that build up, next thing you know, you're just only using snake money to buy more snakes. And

>> that's that's the goal for all of us.

>> That's the goal. But again, it it you know, you got to crawl before you can walk when it comes to that sometimes. So,

>> takes a long time.

>> Long time for sure. And then obvious obviously we got stuff like what Carly talked about what she went through and then losing sickness. You will take losses in the meantime of getting there. You know what I mean? So you just don't give up. Um

>> exciting.

>> I think that I mean I think that's probably the the go-to model with everything. I mean hard

>> it takes time. It takes hard work. And if you're not willing to put in the hard work, there's going to be ups. There's going to be downs. But if you're not willing to go through that, well that I mean did you really deserve the end result anyway?

Yeah. Yeah. There's no reward without suffering. There really isn't. It's it's it's and it sucks because people don't want to suffer, but Condro game, you have no choice. It's gonna happen.

>> You can be Mr. Protective and like, oh, you're doing everything right. Are you? You'll find out.

>> I know. And there's so many ball python people that I feel like are about to learn that lesson.

>> Oh, thank you, Carly. I'm I'm praying for so many. Some I'm not praying for, but some I'm really hoping, you know. But then you have other ones I think they figured out the new [ __ ] they discovered the wheel in some areas, and I'm like, god damn it, dude. You're just not going to listen, are you? There's just some hard-headed [ __ ] out there. Um,

>> there is. And there's there's there's some people that are just diving a little bit

>> aggressive.

>> I don't know. They drank a lot of the [ __ ] Kool-Aid because they've just gone

>> full kilter and things and it's like, please slow down. Please sit down. Please just breathe for a second. We're not reinventing the wheel here. Just chill.

So, [snorts]

>> it's hard. Easier said than done.

>> Happen. Because he knows.

>> Oh my god. I love it when I hear when I talk to somebody who's like, "Yeah, I heard you don't want Bax." I'm like, "Oh, God. Yeah. What juice are you [ __ ] drinking, buddy?" Um, it's But it's, you know, to each your own, dude. You You learn You learn on your own. I learn my own loan. And you know what's crazy? I talk about being a hardhead. I'm still hard-headed. I'm that guy who makes things difficult for myself. So, I'm just preaching from the choir here, okay? That's all. So, I

>> I am. I I am, too. But I do think that this is one of those things that you're not just going to dive head first into this and get really good results. You're going to have to slow down.

>> That's gosh, some I had a handful of these guys that were like, "Yeah, I got I'm paying you and then I got bill on Wednesday." And I'm like, "Holy shit." Like, I'm I'm I'm flattered, but dude, you're Are you okay having five, six different payments at once? Like, and do you need all these at once? Like, you know, but I don't

>> I've done that. I can't say that. I've done that.

>> I can't I haven't. But I'm not here to judge either. Like,

>> I have.

>> You're You're supporting my boy Bill. You're supporting me and others. [ __ ] God. Thank you. Go. Thank you. [ __ ]

>> Merry Christmas.

>> I think that people My more thing that I'm talking about when I'm saying, "Hey, people need to slow down." Is they get animals and they're like, "Oh, I I want to get a breeder ready female right now. read ready mail right now and I want to like I mean I know some you know a couple of people that like I've sold animals to like and they're instantly trying to parent. I'm like please sit down. Please sit down and breathe because I'm afraid you're g a you're stressing me out. B, you're going to stress yourself out and you you just like you have so many questions that could have been answered if you would have just taken the time to learn the animals, keep the animals, and don't stress out about all the stuff that you're doing right now. You're going to have more success in the long run.

>> Yeah, you're going to get there.

>> Long-term game, that's for sure. People that try to cut corners,

>> they'll cut corners with this.

>> No, they'll learn the hard way.

>> Yeah. And you what's crazy when you're going through the hard [ __ ] you're gonna like remember like the the nice days of you just feeding and there was no feeding.

>> Yeah.

>> Watch them grow, watching them change.

>> Yeah. Enjoying it. Like being that that that [ __ ] green wet behind the ear keeper, which you should always be at heart. You should always just be brand new into it because whenever you're just trying to speed things up, dude. It's like when you bite more than you can chew in this game, that's why you some people pack it up and because they're just like, "Dude, I did too much too fast." I knew at least three guys last year that did that. Um, and so you know one of them found healthcare in a different country. Never heard from them again. So you know you just you just never know with people. Dude, you really don't. [laughter] I ALMOST GOT YOU TO LAUGH. THAT WAS GREAT. OKAY. OKAY. LISTEN, we got an hour and a half. Okay. So we got to wrap things up. Bill, anything you want to ask Carly before we close off tonight? Any any wrap-up questions for uh Carly?

>> Yeah. Um, you know, obviously Carly and I know each other very very well. Carly, who who was like your your mentor or mentors when you were first, you know, getting going in this game? Who who were the people that you reached out to, you know, you got your first animal, your first condro, your first couple of condos. Who were the people that kind of brought you along and helped you get going?

>> Patrick and you.

>> A Texas Boys.

>> Sweet of you to say.

>> Patrick and Patrick is that guy for sure.

>> I still blow Patrick up. I stay asking him questions and I'm like, I'm so sorry. Sometimes you could tell me to shut the [ __ ] up, but it's okay.

>> I think of all the people that, you know, that are in the community, I think Patrick would have to be the number one mentor

>> of people across the board. Like,

>> okay, let's say we let's say we collected the hours he spent with people helping. Dude, no one's surpassing Patrick when it comes to hours on the phone helping people. He helped anybody. I I sent them [ __ ] people I barely know. And I'm and they come back like, "Dude, I spent [ __ ] two hours on the phone with Patrick." I'm like, "Sounds about right." You know what I mean? Like these that you know, if if you have if you have him that interested to want to answer your questions, you're going to get the deepest answer you could ever ask for and it's going to go forever. But you're going to learn a lot. You're going to learn a [ __ ] ton. Um, and you know, shout out to Patrick, man. Like, and he's still about that life. He's still here to help people years. It's just he hasn't changed a bit

>> after after all this time. you know, a lot of people get kind of burned out answering the same questions, you know, over and over and over. Um, Patrick's not one of those people. He uh

>> he has the ability to just just keep burning and keep burning. Yeah.

>> And you know the thing about Patrick, dude, like you know, you say that, Bill, like you know, you get asked a lot of the same questions and me, I feel like I get a lot of the same people asking like stuff that I don't want to say it's arrogant, but it's kind of like, oh, I'm looking for an adult female and stuff like that. And and at the end of the day, they're just curious, you know? They're they're reaching out because they don't know how to get one. And you know, you should always kind of just treat them the same way you would want to be treated when you're brand new into something. You know what I mean? And and when you're doing this for so long, you kind of forget the person asking just doesn't know. They're just [ __ ] new. You know what I mean? And Patrick's always that guy to almost bring those people on with ease and and and and let them know it's okay to ask questions because I was one of them, dude. I [ __ ] had no clue. And Patrick, dude, there's been times Patrick, we spent conversations I already asked him this stuff like a year ago and I forgot that I asked him and it's like MJ, we've had this conversation before. I'm like, dude, you're right. We have. And so, dude, Patrick Holmes, appreciate you're you're a godsend, buddy. You're you're awesome. So, uh, but yeah, dude, amazing time, Carly. Uh, I you know, listen, you're, uh, you're you're a great asset to the community because you, uh, you help a lot of people. Um, you you know, you deal with some [ __ ] You know what I mean? You know, there's Facebook [ __ ] out there and I like how you deal with those people as well, but at the end of the day, it's because you're doing work. People, you're going to get haters no matter what if you're doing the right thing. Uh, Bill even to this day deals with haters. That's a good sign. That means you're doing something. So, um, great work.

>> You're telling me that somebody hates me and I don't know about it.

>> No, you do know about it because you you go after them on Facebook in the comment threads. I've seen it. [ __ ] you you don't back down. I love that about you. You know what I mean? I feel like a lot more people should stand up for their their [ __ ] And so, either way, I'm I'm excited to have you back on um again on the show with Matt. We'll bring you and Matt on and we'll kind of do a real real deep dive on King Line. You know what I mean?

Yeah, that that we definitely should because there's a whole lot more information to that and there's a whole lot more in that process and I can't even talk about half of the process because I wasn't there. He I mean he dealt with a lot of crap with customs and whatnot.

>> Yeah.

>> So that's a whole thing that's really interesting to hear.

>> All right.

>> Yeah. Yeah, for sure.

>> Looking forward to it. Um, where can people follow you, hit you up at? Why don't you drop all your social media plugs before we let you go, Carly?

>> Yeah. So, I mean my Instagram is the best way to go. Please don't message me on Facebook. I hate that [ __ ] Um, but I have a Facebook. You can follow it. Just don't message me there. But I have Instagram and that's mostly where I'm active. Um, that's mostly where I'm active on stuff.

>> Why Why do you hate Facebook messages over Instagram messages?

>> Because it difference.

>> It makes me Because I I like to leave my Facebook on my like regular Facebook and I don't add people. So, I do not add reptile people unless like you're on there and MJ is on there because I know y'all. There's creepy people out in the world and I post my kids on my Facebook. So, I've got a big bold thing on my Facebook that says, "Don't add me. I don't add you unless I know you." Um,

>> yeah.

>> All this weird switching.

>> We all know that dwellers of dwellers are on Facebook. Like the most [ __ ] lowest of the lowest, dude, they're on Facebook. Oh, just so you know. Gotta be careful. I just don't like how it switches in the app, that's all. And it So, a lot of times people will message me on Facebook and it goes unread for like a week and then I'm like, "Dang, I should check my Facebook messages."

>> Yeah.

>> On the page. So,

>> all right. Well, guys, go follow her. Um, appreciate you so much, guys. But give it up. It's a wrap for Carly Cole, ladies and gentlemen. It's

>> been a great episode. Thank you, Carly.

>> Hey, Marshall sends his love.

>> Oh, okay. [laughter]

>> Later, Carly. Have a good night. He's gonna message you on Facebook later.

>> Yeah.

>> Oh, he's gonna sell me a snake. Is that it?

>> Doubt it.

>> I think he's gonna he's gonna message you on Facebook later. I

>> I'll answer that Facebook message.

>> He'll for He'll for sure sell you yellow. Have a good night. All right. Hey, good episode, Bill. What do you think?

>> Yeah, Carly's been a good friend of ours for a long time now. So, it's kind of like having family on,

>> you know, when you have have her on this episode.

>> It was actually a good episode. I'm sorry that Marshall missed it, but um, you know, the three of us just know each other so well and um, it was just it was a good night. It was a good uh chance to talk to her. I talked to her a couple times a week. You probably do, too.

>> Yeah.

>> Through various outlets or whatever, but it was really nice to have her on tonight.

>> One thing about Carly is like the the her interest, her passion, her love for all this has carried throughout the whole time since I've met her. actually probably only increased and um to see something that

>> you know like dude for that loss you know I don't want to say that the the the number of that

>> snake that she lost bro but to take a loss like that and [ __ ] suck it up and and like you know dipping away from social media a little bit and come back dude that's if you're able to accomplish that you're you're you're meant for it.

>> Listen, she's done it. You've done it and I've done it.

>> Yeah. You know, we and you especially in the beginning, MJ,

>> and dude, you paid your dues for

>> years,

>> more than one year, you know, more than a couple of breeding seasons where, you know, things just just seemed to beat you down.

>> Yeah.

>> But you you came back, you know, you always just came back. You never lost, you know, you you didn't you never got beat out of it. You know, you just you took your licks and then look at you now. Look at this year.

>> Well, look who my friends are. You think my friends are gonna let me give up? You think my You think my friends are just gonna let me [ __ ] roll over and be a [ __ ] you know, prolapse king? No, I don't think so. Okay. Thank you, Bill, for the inspiration, by the way. [laughter]

>> It's It's just been great to see what you and Carly both, you know, have done the last few years.

>> Yeah. I mean, Carly hasn't She hasn't even yet had her blowout season yet. And she's going to.

>> No, she has. She's on the cusp.

>> She's on the cusp. And she's gonna

>> Yeah.

>> The next year or two, all of a sudden, she's gonna be on here talking about her six clutches that she didn't want.

>> Yeah. [laughter] Uh, Bill again, happy belated birthday. You're my boy. I appreciate you so much.

>> Phoenix Reptiles, subscribe on IG. You can catch Carly there and uh many other amazing uh Condro Keepers. But give it up. It's a wrap for Bill Seagull, you know, Reptiles, ladies and gentlemen.

>> I'll see you next I'll see you next week, brother. We'll get Marshall back with us.

>> All right, brother. Have a good night. Thank you so much.

>> Good night, guys.

>> Peace. All right. Thank you so much. I hope you guys enjoyed this episode. Before you head out, please hit the like button. If you thought this episode was mad flowers to the yellow neonates, hit the like button and also hit that subscribe button. Hit that notification bell. Select all. You'll be reminded every podcast released by the network. Seven days a week, Monday through Sunday. Brand new episodes released right here. All audio platforms as well. Buzzrout, uh Google Play, Apple Podcast, uh Spotify, all the major ones. Okay. Shout out to all my sponsors. Find the link in description below. Appreciate all the love and support. I'll catch you here Thursday. Big episode Thursday. So, hope you guys are ready. But yeah, have a good night and I'll see you at the top. Sorry for the interruption, folks. But a quick word from our sponsors. Green tree pythons, emerald treeboas, and plenty other aoreal snakes have been quite the popularity here at the Trap Talk Reptile Network, which brings me to today's sponsor, the Reptile Perch. Head over to the Reptile Perch.com and reptile perch on Instagram. See what type of design PVC perch is best for your boreal reptile. But first and foremost, I would also check out David Braum's green tree python availability on the website. You can also check out his Instagram just to stay current on any projects or any productions that he posts. Thank you so much, David Bronx, for your ongoing support. Looking forward to seeing what you have to show in the 2025 season. When you think about building a good community and being a leader of that community, nobody comes to mind better than Mark Hager over at Texas Condro. That's right. Make sure you head over to TXondro on Instagram and also head over to Mark's website. see what he has available green tree pythonwise and be ready for quite the 2025 green tree python breeding season out of Mark Hager. He's a veteran in the green tree python game. One of the best and nicest uh breeders in the green tree python game. He's been putting on the whole state of Texas for as long as I've known him. So if you want to see all the amazing other condro keepers out of the state of Texas, another good reason to go follow Mark Hagar over at txconros on Instagram and again head over to his website texasconcondros.com. You can find all the links in the description below. Thank you so much, Mark Hager, for supporting the trap.