It's what?

It's Adri.

Adri.

Could I get that one more time?

Adri.

Adri. A D R I. Adri.

Oh, okay. Yeah. Okay. That's That's a pretty name. All right. Adri. All right. So, Adri, you mentioned the Dead Sea Scrolls.

Yes, sir.

What do you mean about that? Like, what? Explain your comment.

Well, it says in there that it's documented that he did exist. So, I'm not sure why we're saying he didn't.

Like Jesus or Paul.

Yes.

They're not in the Dead Sea Scrolls. What do you think the Dead Sea Scrolls are?

It's the oldest scrolls on Earth.

So, definitely not. But even if that was the case, that's for the Old Testament and like some Jewish apocrypha. Jesus isn't in there.

Yes, he is. Do you have you ever seen the Dead Sea Scrolls like physically?

The Dead Sea Scrolls are the Dead Sea Scrolls like like held them like in front of my face. The Dead Sea Scrolls I've definitely researched them and they're over the Old Testament. Jesus and Paul are not in the Old Testament.

It's not just it's it's their names are in there. Yes, they are. Yes, they are. Where what what scroll what book is in the Dead Sea Scrolls that you think includes Jesus and Paul?

It says where um Jesus kissed his wife upon her lips, but the lips is missing. It says Jesus kissed his wife and then where they were trying to put it all back together, there was ashes because they were smoking around him. His name is in there. Paul. I'm not I'm not sure. I don't know about Paul, but Jesus's name was in there. It was something about Jesus kissed his wife upon and then they don't have the other piece to it. And what about where they found the um when it comes out of Jerusalem or whatever, they have the what is that called? um where they found like a bunch of crypts and it says on there Jesus son of Joseph. So, normally I hear that they found a bunch of blood from Jesus and you're saying they found crypts.

Like it it was uh I don't know if it was a I don't know what they call it when the Dead Sea Scrolls they came to they started bringing them around to different now they're they won't let them out because they were um not taken care of I guess and some of them were damaged but they were they went to California a couple times and they also came to Colorado. I saw them in both places and they have like where you keep you keep stuff in it and it says Jesus son of Joseph Yseph or whatever.

Okay. Maybe you're talking about an ossuary. Is that what you're talking about?

Maybe. Maybe that's what.

So there's an ossuary for a James but not a Jesus.

It wouldn't make any sense for there to be an ossuary for Jesus. that you you muted yourself. There you go.

Sorry, my aunt was talking to me.

Oh, okay. But.

Take care of my aunt. He has Alzheimer's.

You said Did you call it old-timers?

Alzheimer's dementia.

All right. Well.

Same thing. Whatever.

Anyways, uh that being said, um an ossuary for Jesus wouldn't really make a lot of sense, would it? Because.

No, the idea is that his body.

Well, that's why there's nothing in there.

That's why there's nothing in there.

Well, an ossuary would be where you put the body after it decomposes.

So, why would there even be an ossuary if his body never decomposed?

Okay. And what about the the Shroud of Turin?

Uh 1300s artwork very clearly. Obviously, a 3D object like a face or a body would not appear that way. Uh, if you put it if you get an impression of it onto a 2D 2D sheet and then lay that sheet flat, it would look like this.

It would not. But the shroud of Turin looks like, you know, the person is looking directly at you. It doesn't have the sides of the face and like the ears and stuff like that. Like it wouldn't look that way.

The whole body would look like oblong and oddly shaped and stuff like that. Just because you say so or because you.

Was that from 2,000 years ago over 2,000 years ago. Do you?

Yeah. Uh, because we have we have things from we have things from way back when. Uh, let's see. So Jesus supposedly died in flat.

Here is Hold up. Hold up. I will show you if you look on the screen. This is the Masabag Menon. It was created in well before like over a thousand over about 1500 years before Jesus supposedly died. And the way that it looks is uh explicitly uh like this because you end up with the sides of the face. A real ossuary mask where you get the an impression of somebody's face on the sides would look.

Would look like you see the sides of the face like the sides of the head, the ears, everything like that next to the face. But that's not how you see the uh Shroud of Turin. The Shroud of Turin looks like this highlighted over here in the green. This is not how it would appear. It would appear more something like this. You would get the sides of the face and things would be oblong. You wouldn't get the hand that was under the other one because naturally the sheet wouldn't touch that. It's it's very clearly it's very clearly artwork. The way that the sheet would have laid down would not have got that impression. That doesn't make any sense. So yeah, I mean it's it's it's like it's a painting. That's all that it is that don't have the side that you showed me.

So why why why is there.

I don't know I don't know of any that you're could possibly point to that don't have the side of the face.

Well, it does have the side of the face. If you lay a cloth over your face, you don't It's not flat, is it? If you go put paint on your face.

And then you lay a cloth over you, is it going to be flat?

Like.

It's it's going to If you pull it skin tight, is that what you're saying? Like obviously for this one it would have to be skin tight because it gets like the [ __ ] it gets the uh the eyelids. Like it would have to be skin tight. The eyelids are in the recess of the skull. So, like if you just laid a sheet on a a person's face when they're dead, then the uh the ridge here for the eyebrows or the forehead, the nose, and the cheekbones would keep it off of the eyelids.

If if you get the eyelids, that means that you were pulling it skin tight.

What that means is that you would get the sides of the face like the mask of Abraham.

Who says it wasn't skin tight?

I mean, it would have to be this what I'm saying. But if it but if it is, then you would end up with something like the mask of Abraham. That's the problem. Like you would either get you would either what?

Mummies don't look like that. I I've never seen a mummy that has a flat face like that with their when they're all wrapped. Have you ever seen that?

We're not looking at impressions of mummies.

Shroud over Audrey or Adrian. Adri Adri, we we don't look at impressions of mummies. We look at the actual mummy. The mummy itself is a 3D object. It's a It's the the body for Jesus here in this Shroud of Turin artwork. We're just seeing a sheet. That's it. We're seeing the impression the That's why I'm talking about the mask of Abraham and I've never brought up mummies because the mummy is the actual object. It's the 3D object, not the sheet. Whenever we take a look at the mask of Abraham, that is a 2D thing. It's a 2D mask that is made of an impression of the face. The Shroud of Turin is supposed to be a 2D object, a sheet that is made from the impression of the face. That's why I'm comparing it with Mask of Abraham because that's that's something that dates back as far as you tried to say. You said that Jesus was 2,000 years ago. I found something from about 3,500 years ago. So even older and we know that that's how a 3D object looks due to how well physics works. Like so. And you would either have to have a shroud of Turin that doesn't have his eyelids or you have to have a shroud of Turin that has his ears on the side of his head like just off to the side so we would see it. And we don't. You can't have both. That means it's fake. That means it's artwork. They painted it as if you were looking at a person. Like you're looking at me here because the camera is picking up like an an object, right? It's picking up a 3D object as if you were looking at me, like an eye. All right. And you don't see my ears off to the side because I'm a 3D object. But nevertheless, if you were to get an impression of me and then lay it flat like a sheet, you would get my ears off to the side. That's how that works. It is painted as if you were looking at him. It was painted as if it was just an image of him, not not an actual impression. It's not made from an impression.

Otherwise, it would be virtually unrecognizable anyways. Uh, which is why they probably chose to make it that way because if they made it and it looked like this, I mean, that would just look really stupid and people probably wouldn't say, "Oh, that's Jesus." They had to make it look like artwork to specifically get details like hands and all that kind of stuff. It's an artistic decision. And unfortunately, a lot of people got duped about it. Well, whether it is or isn't.

I mean, it is. It's It's from the 1300s. That's the first time that we get any mention of it, by the way. And it's found over in France in a town that only has 111 people to this day. It's Leroy, France.

Um, it's it's pretty obvious that it's fake. Wouldn't make a lot of sense that it was real because how would it go from Israel all the way to France over a period of 1300 years without anybody mentioning it? And anybody mentioning that they have it? That's that's ridiculous. Well, I don't know whether his name was Jesus or whatever his name was.

Well, it wasn't real. Uh, so I mean, in the in the Greek, the way that Jesus and Paul were not real. Um, but the way that it was spelled out in the Greek, the first time it's spelled out would be Isu.

Because that's it was written in Greek. It was not written in any other language. And there's not really any indication that even if he was a real person, he would have had the name Yeshua. Not necessarily. That's just kind of like a a back like a backwards thinking kind of way where you're like, "Oh, hey, let me let me recreate what I think that Jesus would have been. He would have been Jewish, so he would have had the name Yeshua." And it's like that's fine, but that's I mean he has uh in in the stories Jesus is going the author has Jesus going into the uh into the synagogue in Nazareth and reading from the Greek Septuagint.

So it's.

I'm sorry. I'd really love to continue the debate, but I got to go. My daughter's going to go meet up with uh she's a senior this year, so she's going to go meet up with the school and see what her scholarship stuff is.

Sounds good. Hope hopefully she's got hopefully she.

I'll check it out in a little bit.

All right. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. Thank you.

All right. All right. Uh, didn't really need all that, but uh hopefully she gets some scholarships. All right. Uh, let's see. All right. If if you've got any evidence for Jesus or Paul, I'd like for you to come up and provide it. If you're over on YouTube, hello to all the 367 people who are watching over there. If you've got evidence for Jesus or Paul, click the link in the chat. I take guests on TikTok. If you don't have a TikTok or uh don't uh don't want to come over to TikTok, that's perfectly fine. Send a super chat. Ask me a question, give me evidence for Jesus, tell me I look like an idiot. Perfectly fine. I will read it out loud and I will respond to it. I promise. Or you can, like I said, click the link in the chat. Uh, TikTok is how I take guests because YouTube doesn't have that ability. So just click the link and just come on up. If you're on TikTok, well then what are you waiting for? Come up here. Let's have a conversation. Uh, let's see. The real Liam as opposed to the fake Liam. What you got?

All right. Not a lot apparently. I guess I guess that's it.

Flawless victory.

All right. Nothing. He had nothing. All right. Uh, what about Video Ninja? No, I'm not really interested in doing that. Simply because of the fact that like the TikTok uh way of doing it creates a barrier uh between some of the crazier comments on YouTube and they're on TikTok. Uh, I mean, I understand that other people use it and stuff like that, but I no, not for the inflammatory kind of uh style that I'm going for here in the sense that like um, you know, this topic can definitely get kind of rambunctious, if you will. So, nah, I'm not doing that. I mean, I understand that the you're trying to help, but I like the barrier of TikTok. TikTok provides a nice a nice a nice barrier between the crazies on YouTube, the cesspool, that is the YouTube comments, and people who actually can come up. All right. Uh, real the real Liam says, "You don't want to accept Jesus." I get it now. You didn't even say anything. You came up here and didn't say anything. All right. Uh, Lavender, how's it going?

It's going good. I just have a question for you. Uh.

All right.

Yeah. Uh, so a lot of people like to claim that the shroud of Turin, I believe it's called, is supposed to be a depiction of Jesus Christ. Um, and I know it's already been debunked for it.

Were you here? I just literally just got done talking to somebody about it.

You just did?

Yeah.

Oh, dang it. I missed it. Now I got to look back on it. But I actually was talking to I don't know if you know Oaks, but he said that he has like.

Oakdale Curtis or whatever.

Yeah.

Yeah. The old man talks out of the side of his [ __ ] cheek. Yeah. Keep going.

Yeah. Yeah, I was going to say that he sent me a YouTube video about it and I'm already watching a little bit and he the first portion of it was talking about like Straps. I think that or Straps, which was like an organization that was trying to find like the shroud in like 1978. Um, but all I know is that um I watched a separate video that talked about how um that that organization disagreed with the laboratory where they wanted to conduct their own separate um laboratory experiment without actually having like a second opinion on it. I believe I don't know if you wanted to explain more about that about like how those 30 scientists actually didn't know what they were doing in the Straps experiment I think in like 1978. I didn't know if you knew anything about that.

So, there are constantly going to be people who are clamoring to get their hands onto the shroud in order to test it and try to find uh through a myriad of different ways. Um, ways to try to make it real. Now, they pull most of their [ __ ] out of their ass, um, which is where [ __ ] comes from. Uh, but nevertheless, um, the most recent take is that there's like a beam of light or whatever that put the image onto the shroud itself. It It's all really stupid. Like really really stupid. Here's the deal. Here's the deal. The Catholic Church believed that this was an a a a real relic. It was an actual relic that depicted Jesus for a really long time, like hundreds of years. Then in 1988, a study was completed that said, "Hey, we tested these at different labs. We tested different pieces of it and everything like that." And we came back, all these different labs came back with the same date range. It's about the 1300s when it supposedly was made. All right, this is when it dates to. Catholics did not like that. More conservative Catholics didn't like it. uh even some Protestants. I'm not exactly sure what Oakdale Curtis is. Uh, barely a human. But that being said, when it comes to the actual like theology behind a lot of it, it's all conservatives. It's all people who really really really want this to be real because they've invested a lot of their life into this being an actual relic, an actual depiction of Jesus, which doesn't even make any sense. The face is very clearly Jac Malay who died in France in the 1300s. But.

Even if that's the case, even if all if all of this stuff confuses you or you have one side that's saying, "Oh, there it dates carbon dates to 1300s and the other side is saying, well, no, it doesn't. It dates something else or there was a fire or there was this or they did this method or they didn't there was a light and blah blah." It doesn't matter. This right here is a face. If you were to paint this face black or covered in blood, dust, dirt, mud, doesn't matter. If you were to to get a white sheet and pull it so tight on this face that you see the imprints of the eyelids or you get like eyelids or whatever, which are in the recess of the skull. All right? So you'd have to pull it skin tight to get the eyelids, which the Shroud of Turin apparently depicts. That means that when you lay that sheet flat after you get that impression, it would look like this.

All of the face and all of the arms and the fingers and the legs and the torso and the feet and everything would all be oblong. It would look strange.

It would not look the way that it looks.

So it doesn't matter how old the thing dates to. It doesn't matter if it has been repaired. It doesn't matter if they used Jesus used light in order to like photocopy himself onto a a sheet. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. It would not look that way because a 3D object like a body would not appear that way on a 2D shape, which is a sheet.

Yeah. And his ears aren't even like appearing in the actual shroud, which is weird. And especially because they like to look at the front of the body and not the back when the back is completely like like you could tell that the back of the shroud is like bigger than the actual human itself. And especially with like the fingers and how elongated they are, including the placement of it.

Look at his hand.

Yeah. Like his his fingers are.

Yeah.

Freakishly long.

Yeah. Like I I I mean, have you ever seen salad fingers? That thing on YouTube a long time ago. Yeah. Like that's basically it right there. Yeah.

Ridiculous.

Like, give this guy a rusty spoon. What my point is is that this right here.

Is how it's supposed to look.

You wouldn't get things like the eyelids and the hand that's under the other hand and stuff like, you wouldn't get that if there was just a sheet that was laying down. It wouldn't it wouldn't be able to capture it.

Yeah. And um the the fact that Oaks was talking about like, oh, but the people uh that did the experiment said that they found blood within it, even though like even the bishop in his uh writings talked about like how they um they knew the artist and how they knew that it was actually like an art piece. It was like a sculpture piece and like that's already been proven. And then him saying uh and then Oaks talking about like he's actually talked to these actual scientists because he's like a biologist or something. And like I I can't really get through the entirety of the video.

Bill Curtis is a biologist.

He said he claims he is like frogs.

I don't know. Like I'll have to send you the video and like if you want me to DM you the the YouTube video because it's like almost like a three-hour video like.

No, I'm not watching [ __ ].

Yeah, if you don't want to. But um but the the fact that they claim that there's like blood in it and and somebody made a point like they found like some sort of chemical within the blood that indicates like uh that sort of blood would have to endure some sort of trauma like with some sort of chemical. I completely forgot what it was which was which was redacted I believe in like 2017 which is like eight years ago.

Like or almost 10 years ago.

Yes. There was a study that came out in 2014 that said that like the blood they tested the blood and they found all these different things and then other scientists came out and said, "No, you [ __ ] didn't. That's ridiculous." And they actually uh they actually uh retracted that um uh uh article. And then some of the same people came back out in 2022 with the study that said that it was they used some new method. And that new method uh was one that hadn't been tested before. The Shroud of Turin was the guinea pig. Like it had never been proven to test anything. And they're just like, "Oh, we're just gonna we came up with this new method and we're just going to test it on the shroud." That was.

And that shroud. Yeah. And that shroud wasn't even created until like a thousand years after Jesus's resurrection.

Correct.

Again. Yeah. It dates to the 1300s. What Oakdale Curtis is trying to get you to uh uh believe is that it is actually something from the first century, which No, it it's stupid. And and some people say, "Oh, well, uh there's pollen on there from uh the first century over from Palestine area." No, there's not. Uh, there's things from all over the world, including Australia and South America, like different types of pollen and whatnot. So, that's just indicative of people coming to come see it from all over the world. We don't date any of that pollen to the first century, though. That's ridiculous. On top of that, uh, if you try to go in and try to see like all this like DNA and stuff like that, uh, scholars actually or scientists have actually come out here recently and said there's no way to actually be able to use DNA to actually determine anything because we're able to see so much different stuff. It's been so contaminated that it's it's problematic. There is DNA on the actual shroud from a marine worm that lives off the coast of Canada. So, like, no. In no way, shape, or form is is DNA somehow like DNA testing somehow going to be something that proves that it's from the first century. Um, there's no way that we can prove that it was even from that area. Like it's it's very very clearly artwork because none of this even if even if you were to somehow get it to a certain date or even if you were to upend the 1988 study where the Catholics stopped which is the point where the Catholics stopped saying it was real like officially because of the study that they let happen. Like even if you were to upend that study, which is what the 2022 thing is doing and what Odell Curtis is trying to get you to think. Even if you were to do that, it's still artwork. It's not real. Like, it's still just artwork.

We know it's artwork.

Because that's not how a body looks, let alone would look if you got a sheet that had the impression. It's not how it looks.

Yeah. And and the fact that I've even tried to invite people up who actually know about this like Johnny, I don't know if you know Johnny. And I was like he was and he would make like the dumbest excuses like well they're just blinded in ignorance and they're not really open-minded about these little things. I'm like no they are open-minded. they just know this more than you because you claim that you've actually met these scientists and actually have done the research especially within their re like the the article that he read in like 1978 where it talked about how they found blood samples within the sheets even though that's already been debunked in like the 1980 study uh study including the 2014 one. Um I I think like he's also blinded with ignorance and he like he likes to and whenever I talked to him about like can you send me like the PMDI number he would then send me like a link talking about well these studies are actually like proven to be like peer-reviewed and they actually like he would make the dumbest excuses so that he would not be able to send me a peer-reviewed article that claimed that these that these things were actually proven to be real like that that's how much he deflects.

I mean I'm not even I'm not even really concerned with anything that's super peer-reviewed or anything because they can get just about anything through peer review really. Uh, but nevertheless, I I I just there's no evidence that it goes back to that point in time. I no evidence that it's that point in time at that place or anything like that. It just it's just wishful thinking. We can tell that it's just wishful thinking. Like.

It's artwork.

And it just kind of stops there. like it's cool looking kind of.

But it's artwork. It's been replicated.

It's not really that.

It's not really that big of a deal.

Yeah, because they replicated one of that in like within five minutes on one of the studies. Like it's really not that hard to actually do.

Oh yeah. There was a YouTube live that was actually done here recently. I think it was hosted by History Valley. They're on YouTube. Um, that actually did a they did a live like reconstruction or a live replication of the shroud of Turin. Like it's it's not hard. I mean.

Once you figure it out, it's like, oh, okay, that's how they did it.

Yeah. But thank you so much for having me up here. I see you have another guest up here, but if I have any more questions about that, just I'll I'll come up here. But thanks again.

All right. Thank you very much for coming up. That was a lavender, everybody. Lavender. All right. Uh, really fast. Uh, super chat $19.99 from the prototype. And I'm sure I already know that I got to get this marker out. Uh, says, "Yeah, how many Queefs are we vibing with today, Queeverron?" Well, apparently, uh, two right off the bat. Very nice. Just two. We'll We'll keep it light today. Keep it light. All right. Uh, we've got uh Let me send you an invite to unmute there. Uh, we got Christian 80. Christian 80.

Hey guys. Hi. How are you doing?

Doing good.

Can you hear me?

What?

Can you hear me?

Yeah. Yeah, I can hear you. What you got?

Great. Great. Great. No, I'm basically I'm sorry. Your English is not really my first language, you know, so apologies if I'm not coming across, you know, super succinct or super kind of, you know, constructive. Um, I think.

If you know the word succinct, uh, then I'm pretty sure your English is pretty good.

Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate your comment. um in terms of let's say if if we go back to history you know and we go back to you know let's say you know to the the time roughly speaking where Christ you know would would have existed you know I'm talking about Jesus um what I would ask you the question you know is that you know in terms of that that point of time in history so let's say 500 AD to about 500 sorry 500 BC to about 500 AD like how would how would we have so it's almost like what is the method of humanity to actually not necessarily prove history but actually to almost like um look into history like so how do we know whether certain people would have existed? So what's our way of proof you know would would be my question.

Uh, well, there's different ways of kind of going back and confirming that somebody existed or different levels of confidence that we can have based off of evidence. Um, I mean, archaeological evidence is pretty good. Then you have like contemporaries of the person writing about them or writings that statically come back as them or uh writings to the person. That's pretty good. Um, then you have writings after they die but talking about him in a mundane way. Uh, but the Gospels are very clearly something that shows up after a hundred years after the person supposedly dies, more than 100 years after the person supposedly dies, and it includes magic and anachronisms which show that some of the story is impossible and contradictions. So it doesn't really make a lot of sense like it's not reliable.

If you think about it. So like um just just to sort of comment on that. So because God is supernatural, you know, you would you would it it would be obvious to have every single story have a supernatural element, you know, within the Gospels, you know, as well as within the whole Bible, you know. So because he he is supernatural as well as he is always trying to prove he's supernatural.

But like but that's just that's starting with the premise that not only that like God is real but also magic is possible and I'm not going to do that for the purpose of finding out if somebody existed in history.

Absolutely. So basically the point I was trying to make earlier is that you know and you you leaded onto it you know in terms of how do we know whether certain people you know would would have existed in the past you know it's mainly done by manuscripts you know and actually so as in as in people who would have written you know about a certain person and that basically document would have been preserved.

All of it is done by manuscripts that what.

All of it is done by manuscript but manuscripts you know is is basically our pretty much most accurate guess you know about history you.

No.

And if you if you do the research.

No. Our most accurate guess would be archaeology, things that we can physically date, not manuscripts. That doesn't make any sense. Why would we do that?

Okay, but let let me just let me just let me just make a point on manuscripts.

Well, I mean, you've made a point and it was wrong. So, if you're going to build on top of that, it's not going to go anywhere because our best way of knowing that somebody existed is like their remains or something that they owned or something that mentions them that is a physical object that we can date or descendants. It is not manuscripts. The [ __ ] are you talking about?

Okay, I mean, I I I would I would agree to disagree, but if I if you would allow me to finish my point, you know.

It sounds like you started it and you said something that was false. I don't want you to continue building your house on the sand. I want you to build it on the solid rock.

I mean, I think manuscripts are pretty pretty decent.

Not really. It depends on the content of the manuscripts. And again, like I said, if the if the manuscripts are first written or if these texts are first written over a hundred years after the supposed death of somebody and they include historical problems or historical contradictions or contradictions with the text itself or magic, it is not good. That is not good. Like that manuscript would be laughed out of court. That doesn't make any sense. Like.

At at the same time, you know, no, I hear you. I hear you. I'm I'm not saying I agree with it. I'm just I'm I'm but I'm acknowledging it. At the same time, you know, how would you explain the fact that let's say about Julius Caesar there are about 250 manuscripts.

How would I explain that there's only 250 versus a bunch for Jesus? How would I explain that?

This is based on the research you know that I have done. So.

Are you asking how I are you asking how that's the case? Like why or why that's the case? like why why we don't have.

But it's almost like if you look at it from a statistical point of view whereby there are about 250 manuscripts about Julius Caesar there are about 12 of Alexander the Great.

Why does the amount why does the amount of copy matter?

Hear me out. No, you need to answer this question because I already know where you're going. It's a it's an old hat. It's it's that's a phrase that means like it's it's the same thing. I say it all the time.

Um.

It's it's it's an it's an argument. It's it's it's a really bad argument and I'm trying to get you to realize how bad it is before you say it.

Because I I but I need you to answer this question.

Does the amount of copies of a story make the story true?

Well, if it's 25,000, you know, it.

Okay, I'm going to ask I'm going to ask this question again, and I need a yes or a no. All right. Does the amount of copies of a story make it true?

Not necessarily.

Correct. You are correct. The amount of copies do not mean anything. So when you say, "Oh, hey, we only have 12 for this guy, but we've got 25,000 for this." That doesn't mean anything. We've got tons of copies of Harry Potter. That doesn't make Harry Potter real. I don't care about how many copies we have. That doesn't make any sense. What matters is the content itself and whether or not it is telling a real story. We also have more copies uh for uh Homer's Iliad and Homer's Odyssey than we do for Julius Caesar. That doesn't make Odysseus real more than Julius Caesar, does it?

Well, I think mixing.

Not really. So stop saying, "Oh, hey, we only have this amount for Julius Caesar, but we've got this amount for Jesus, therefore he wins." That's not how this works, and you know it.

I think in terms of let's say, you know, like.

No, acknowledge that you know that just because we've got a bunch of copies of something that doesn't make the story real. Acknowledge that.

Um, it doesn't make the story real.

Correct? Okay. So, if we have more copies if we have more copies of if we have more copies of the Odyssey.

Where Odysseus is being lured by sirens or meets mermaids, is that somehow more real or more reliable than the stories of Julius Caesar who we only have 12 copies for?

These are are historical facts. You know, he was a conqueror. So again, please lose the argument. Lose the argument. Just completely just toss it out. Take that argument that, oh, we've got all these different manuscripts for Jesus, but I'm comparing the amount to Julius Caesar. Take that argument, roll it up really neatly, and shove it up your butt because in no way, shape, or form is it something that you should be saying at all. It is not a good argument. It is terrible. And I hope that you realize how terrible it is.

No, I think I think it's a pretty good one.

It is not because you acknowledge that the amount of copies does not make make it true. You already acknowledge that.

Yeah. Well, yes. You're comparing fiction, you know, with.

Do you believe that Julius Caesar existed? Yes or no?

Yes. Yes, I do.

So, the fact that we have more copies of something that talks about Odysseus meeting mermaids makes them real, right? Are mermaids real?

Are mermaids real? Um.

Are mermaids real?

I do not I do not know the answer to that question.

You don't know if mermaids half.

People half fish.

Exist? You don't know if that You don't know if that's the case.

Um, I I would have no. So, if if you.

So, I'm going to I'm going to try this again. Are mermaids? People who are half human, half fish, those creatures, are th are those real?

I have I have no way to.

You have no way of knowing if a fish and a human could possibly.

Despite I don't think you have any way of knowing. You know, despite.

I do know that mermaids aren't real. That doesn't make sense. H in a world where you know.

In a world where there's no mermaids, I'd like for you to admit that there mermaids are not real.

Um, I I I not seen I've never seen any.

I didn't ask if you've seen a mermaid. I asked you if they're real.

I mean, I can't I can't really have a conversation with you if you think mermaids are real. You've already you've already gone off the deep end. You're already crazy.

Yeah. Yeah, I mean I'm I'm not crazy. I'm just saying that I have.

So then go ahead and confirm that mermaids are not real.

I mean, but then if you look at some some.

Okay, listen listen listen listen listen. I understand that there might be a slight language barrier in this case there's not you know what I'm asking. Don't be a little [ __ ]. Answer the question. Don't.

Call me a [ __ ]. I.

I'm not calling you one. I'm telling you not to be one. So, please show us all that you're not a [ __ ] and answer the question correctly. Are mermaids real? Yes or no?

Um, I don't know. I I I.

You don't know.

The the jury is out on mermaids for you.

Say it again.

You You truly do believe that there's a possibility that mermaids exist on the earth. Um, I mean there's there in a in a world where supernatural exists.

It sounds like it. Look, let me give you a quick English lesson. Mhm. If you believe something and I'm asking if you believe it, you say, and this is the word yes. It's a three-letter word. It's yes. Yes. If you don't believe it and I ask if you believe it, you say this word no. It is two letters in O. It's actually very common. It's probably in the language that you spoke initially. All right. So, we're gonna try this again. It is a yes or no question. Do you believe that mermaids are real?

Okay. So, if you would have asked me a year ago.

All right. Still not getting it. And I'm going to give you one more shot because I don't want to necessarily, you know, maybe there's a little bit of a language barrier. But again, it's a yes or a no. It's not that hard. It's it it's really not that hard. All right. In fact, in fact, you know what? What's your What is your native tongue? What's your native tongue? What what's what's the first language that you learned how to speak? Go ahead, unmute. Go ahead. I sent you an invite to unmute. You got to click the little microphone button. All right. Well, I mean, if you're just going to sit there on mute, then I can't really have a conversation with it. But you can you can unmute if you want and we can continue the conversation. I don't know if you're talking or not, but we can't hear you. So, we may have to move on to somebody else who knows how to work a phone.

Hello.

All right.

God exist. Uh, can I get your age for TikTok purposes?

Yes, it's 33. 33.

Yep.

All right. I'm going to ask you a yes or no question really quick. Are mermaids real?

It's a tough question to be honest because I never saw one. It's uh not really from my.

It was a yes or no question and you're not really answering it. So, are mermaids real?

Okay. But then I say no. But let me let me ask you something.

That's the correct answer. So, I don't know why you want to put a caveat to it.

Because if you ask yourself, can you 100% say they're not real?

100%.

Yes.

Okay. How?

Because they're not real. Do you have any other uh do you have any other arguments for mermaids or anything like that?

No. No. I don't want to go into mermaids.

Okay. Well, I'm going to try I'm going to try to ask the question and don't put a caveat on it or anything like that. And don't ask a question back or anything like that. It is a yes or no question. Are mermaids real?

I can't answer this question when I'm honest. But I.

Got to listen listen. Here's the deal. Uh, we're gonna have to go ahead and move on. If you can't pass the litmus test, I'll give you one more shot, but I will not continue the conversation if you cannot answer this question correctly. Are mermaids real?

I would say no for the purpose of this conversation. No.

Uh, no. Uh, we're going to look for the purpose of being correct. Are mermaids real?

No.

Okay. Now we can continue on. All right. That shows me that even though you tried to fight it really hard, you're not actually stupid. All right. So, please continue. What kind of evidence do you have for Jesus or Paul?

What I want to ask you is what brought you to this topic in general? Why are you interested in this topic of Jesus and Paul?

Why is anybody interested in anything? It's just a topic that interests me. There.

Was there any time in your life that you that you were confronted with Jesus that wanted that someone wanted to convince you that Jesus is real?

What?

I mean, was there any time?

Sort of. Kind of. I I believe that he was real most of my life. Why?

But were you born into a family that.

Most people are.

I didn't. I was not.

You were not born into a family?

No.

Not into a family that made me try to believe that he's real.

Well, I I don't give a [ __ ] dude. What's your evidence that Jesus or Paul existed?

No, I want to ask you what is your evidence that they didn't exist?

Uh, anachronisms.

I I saw I saw.

Anachronisms. I answered your question.

Okay.

Do you know what anachronisms are?

No.

Okay. There are elements of a story that are about a place in time. If I told you a story about somebody, and this is going to be tough uh because you had a really hard time with mermaids, but if I told you a story about someone in the 1960s who owned an iPhone, you would know that that story is [ __ ]. Correct.

I see where where you're coming from.

Correct.

Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. Because the iPhone is anachronistic. It is something that is not in the 1960s. It doesn't show up for another 40 years. Likewise, we have things in the Gospels, we have things in Acts, and we have things in the Pauline epistles that don't line up with when the story is supposed to take place. This shows that at least a few of the stories or some of the stories are historically impossible. Once you put those alongside contradictions within the uh the New Testament, geographical problems there, uh third person omniscient style of writing, which is indicative of fiction where you're able to hear behind walls and stuff like that, like you're able to hear people's thoughts or hear things that are away from the uh the author or the main character, that's pretty obvious uh that uh it's it's fiction. Uh, when you add in uh we're not even going to talk about the supernatural stuff, that's pretty obvious. Um, whenever you add in things that are.

Lifted from prior sources, supernatural and natural stories, as well as teachings are lifted from prior sources. Um, and the fact that the first gospel doesn't show up for about 114 years after the supposed death of Jesus, uh, and published by a man who did not think that he was a human being. That sounds pretty bad.

>> That's true. I mean, it's obvious that you you're a smart guy. You you you know your facts. You you think >> about mermaids. You think logically and I like that. I really appreciate that. I think it's a very good thing that you are that you are looking into this topic because this is also a way that you can actually find Jesus. But what I'm also interested in is would you what would you do? I know that you don't believe in it. I know that.

>> So, what's your evidence for Jesus or Paul? Because it sounds like it's going to be some kind of weird theological question and I don't give two shits about it. But

>> No, no, no, no, no. I don't want to go into that. It is more than >> you. You base your facts on what you know and what you read and what you learn to be true from your experience.

>> Yeah, that's how that works. Okay. So, do you have any evidence for Jesus or Paul?

>> I do. Yeah. Personally.

>> Okay. Sweet. Well, yeah. Well, personal experience. Did you live 200 years ago or are you a data scientist or some kind of scientist or archaeologist?

>> Personal experience that points me right into the direction of it. This is why I'm asking you.

>> Sweet. Unless it pointed you in the direction of a tablet or a manuscript or something like that from 2,000 years ago, then I I don't know what to tell you, man. We are looking for evidence for Jesus or Paul and none of your existence has lined up with the supposed existence of Jesus in Paul's timeline. So, no, that that's not going to work. So, unless you unless you know of any particular thing that you have come across during your lifetime, which is evidence for Jesus or Paul 2,000 years ago, I don't give a [ __ ] about your lifetime. I don't give a [ __ ] about my lifetime. We are talking about the evidence that is provided uh back about 2,000 years ago. Do you have any evidence for that or did you want me to go ahead and move on to somebody else?

>> Um maybe if you're open to one more question then I would then

>> Is it relevant? Cuz up to this point it sounds like it's probably not going to be

>> No, it is just what would you do if actually Jesus would reveal himself to you? Would you be open to believe in him or

>> No.

>> Uh if Jesus revealed himself right here, all that would mean was that he is right here in front of me right now. That doesn't have anything to do with 2,000 years ago, which is the topic. Congratulations. You're stupid for two reasons. Do you have anything else that has anything to do with the topic?

>> No, that was my last question.

>> All right. Thanks. Well, moving on. All right. Jesus Christ. Can't answer the question about mermaids and all kinds of stuff. All right. Uh, Justicia or Just

>> I CIA.

>> Yes. Who's justice in Spanish?

>> Oh, okay.

>> Hey, man. All right. Well,

>> you know what?

>> I'm sorry. I don't speak Spanish.

>> Anyways, really quick, really quick. Can I get your age for TikTok purposes?

>> 59.

>> God damn. 59. All right. And really quick, let me test.

>> Oh, you called me old.

>> No, I I just thought you sounded a lot younger.

>> It was a compliment, actually. But anyways, thank you. Thank you.

>> Uh, that being said, um,

>> do mermaids exist? It's a yes or no question.

>> No.

>> Okay. Hey, look. That is how you [ __ ] answer the question right there. It's just a yes or a no. And I'm probably gonna have to start working that into asking questions of people. But anyways, the point is what you got for us today, man.

>> No, no. I what I would like to know is uh uh I am very curious about uh about this subject. So if you can tell me what you know, you know, I love to learn. So if you can tell me how you know that uh that Jesus and Paul never existed, you know, I'm not I'm not Christian. I stopped being I've stopped going to church. I'm not Christian anymore. I believe the Bible is being distorted and twisted all always. So you know but what you know about Jesus and Paul if you can share it since uh I don't know what what kind of knowledge you have please share it with me I I love to learn new stuff.

>> Yeah not a problem not a problem. Well, uh, I would just simply say that the stories that are presented, even the natural versions of Jesus and Paul as presented in the New Testament, does not line up with what we know about like the first century from contemporaries of the time, geography of the time, Jewish theology of the time, certain practices of the time, um, archaeology of the time. Like, it's a whole bunch of different reasons um, why things don't line up. And the way you can tell that a story is actually historically accurate is not how many times it lines up with history, but how many times it doesn't. Uh, because you can write a story after an event and you can talk about that event. You and I can write stories about like the Civil War or about um the French Revolution or something like that. Like we could do that if we wanted to. But the point is our story if it doesn't line up with what we know about history, that's how people can step in and say that was made up. Does that make sense?

>> Yes, it does.

>> Yeah. So that's that's really how how you got to go back and and take a look. You don't look for how many times it lines up. You look for how many times it doesn't line up because that's the most scientific way to do it. The most scientific way to approach something is to try to try to see how it's not an actual how how the hypothesis fails. How it's not actually the way that you're thinking. Um, if if you if you approach it and you say, "Hey, I want to try to find everything that props up my way of thinking or or confirms it, then that is pseudocience. It is literally starting with a presupposition and trying to find evidence for it. It's it's it's pseudocience. It's not actually scientific." And so my co-author and I, we've got a book on this topic. Uh, the ebook is just $3 if you're interested. The link's in the bio there. And there's a Spanish version, by the way. Uh, but the point is, um, in in our research, we started with the idea that Jesus is real. All right? And we were going to write about how Jesus uh the christologology, the idea of like how the uh Christians and the followers of Jesus uh how they just kind of heaped these stories of divinity onto Jesus over time. We wanted to see why they did it, who did it, and you know when they did it. And over time we started to realize that there's no evidence for this Jesus guy even existing. There's actual evidence against him. And then we started to realize that the text of the New Testament isn't even written in the first century. It's written in the second century. So, it kind of helps give us a timeline, a better evolution of the of the uh religion and the characters and stories and whatnot. So,

>> thank you and it's very interesting. I like it.

>> Yeah. But yeah, I I I what I would recommend is I would recommend checking out the book. If you want more information about it, you can definitely check out the book. The link is in my bio here on Tik Tok and on the YouTube profile. You can check it out. Again, the ebook is just like three bucks. It's not a lot. Uh, but u let me know if you have any questions or anything like that. You can send an email or

>> now because I am with my mother in a doctor appointment.

>> Okay.

>> But I'll follow you, bro. I will follow you.

>> All right. Well, thank you very much.

>> Sorry, brother. Take care.

>> Uh, that was uh Justicia. Justicia, I think.

>> Yes, Hustia.

>> Yeah. Yeah, it's the J. The soft J. Soft J. Anyways, thank you very much for coming up.

>> Okay, bro.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Uh, we're trying won't be able to make it, fellas. Veronica and I are trying a new fad. It's called jogging or might be jogging. Might be a soft jay. I have to check. Apparently, you just run for extended periods of time. Supposed to be wild. Sorry. Anyways, uh, really quick, some super chats. Uh, $5 from that riverside that real riverside foo says Jesus married a mermaid. It's in the deep sea scrolls. I like that. Also, my limo. Anyways, uh, $5 there from a resting hot face. Oh god. Up on the shore, they queef all day. Out in the sun, they queef away. I really hope that uh, you know what, I'm not going to say it because eventually people are going to be like, "Oh, now we now we've moved on to the other word that he doesn't want us to put in the [ __ ] super chat and we're just going to annoy the [ __ ] out of him." It's just kind of how that goes. Anyways, thank you for the super chats. But my god, mermaids become a real thing. It's going it's going to be become a thing. Uh, let's see. The Bible and Quran is one for believers. Is that is that what your name is? Okay. Yeah. What's your name?

>> Yeah. Thank you. Thank you for having me.

>> Uh, thank you very much. But uh, in your screen there uh, because of the question you asked in the screen, you are supposed to like have evidence that Paul and Jesus they never existed. Then we can debunk. But you have no proof on your screen that they don't exist. So how can you

>> list out all the proof on my screen? Why would I do that?

>> Because you if that is how it's supposed to be. You don't have any proof that they don't exist.

>> Okay. I mean, I don't know why you sat there and listened to me giving the proof to the last guy and you just I guess didn't pay any attention.

>> Okay. What was your proof? I I didn't pay attention. What was

>> So, one of the strongest pieces of evidence would be anacronisms. These are elements of a story that are out of place in time. Um, so they don't line up with the time period. Like when Jesus in Matthew 23 talks about rabbis and even discusses how they dress. Unfortunately, that doesn't make a lot of sense because the first rabbi is Johannai who starts the first rabbitic school after the fall of the temple in 70 with the uh permission from emperor Vespasian outside of Jerusalem. So I mean nah that'd be 40 years later. So the first rabbi is 40 years after Jesus is talking about rabbis. That doesn't make any sense.

>> So okay. Yeah, I get you. That's that is I'm very happy you explained you explained what you were saying. But for me personally, the reason why I believe they existed is because of the documents. Because if you go to a court of law, they will have you for evidence. The evidence I believe is the Bible and the Quran. It clears the fact that that Jesus Jesus existed. I'm not going to talk about Paul. If you also read a book, there's a book I read, he walked with.

>> Yeah. Americans. So the Quran the Quran is written about 300 years oh almost 300 years after Christianity became the official religion of the entire Roman Empire. So why on earth do you think that the Quran is somehow proof of Jesus? You could have mentioned the Book of Mormon and it would have made the exact same amount of sense.

>> Well, I I have not read the Book of Mormon. I've read

>> Well, what it is is it's [ __ ] It's a lot like the Quran.

>> Okay. I I don't know anything about that. But also I read I read a book he worked with the

>> actually to be fair the Book of Mormon is actually closer to the Bible. Um, much closer to the Bible. It's not really like the Quran. Well, there's sections that are kind of like the Quran but not really. The Quran is kind of its own kind of thing. Most of the Quran is just kind of random like

>> like teachings and [ __ ] It it's just it's like it's like someone read Proverbs and was like you know what we need more of this but with like gratuitous violence. Yeah. And the another reason that even gave me a kick to believe more is I read a book called He Walk He Walked the Americas. So he walked the America is a book about the Native Americans.

>> Yeah, that's in the Book of Mormon, dude.

>> That is the Book of Well, I don't know, but I'm telling you about what I read.

>> Well, Jesus obviously did not exist in North America either.

>> The Native Americans. The Native American, man. That's the Book of Mormon.

>> This is that I I've never read the Book of Mormon. That's what the Book of Mormon is about. It's about Jesus showing up after he after he ascends into heaven. He hooks a sharp left and just shows up in [ __ ] like Mexico. Well, before it was Mexico.

>> Okay. I don't I don't know about that, but that's not what I read. According to what I read, the Native Americans, they call him the the healer. They said

>> cool, man. Literally, what you read is not anything from actual Native Americans.

>> These are document to prove that that he he he exist.

>> No, man. Like I don't know what you read, but that is not actual historical evidence of Jesus. In no way, shape, or form was Jesus in America. That doesn't make any [ __ ] sense.

>> Okay. And again, another proof again that Jesus was there. According to his prophecies in the Bible, he said in he said that the temple in Jerusalem was going to be destroyed in 70 AD. It happened.

>> Yeah. It's almost like they wrote this after 70.

>> You said

>> it's almost like they wrote it after 70 and already knew that the temple would be destroyed, so they just wrote it. said it before then.

>> Yeah, I know. But when was the book written?

>> Okay. Okay. Now, if you

>> No. Nope. Nope. Nope. No. No. When was the book written? I can I can write a story right now that has a guy named uh his name is going to be Kevin. Now, Kevin existed in 1990, and he said the Twin Towers will be hit with planes and they will fall in 2001. Look at that. I guess Kevin actually made a prophecy before 911. No, it's the fact that I wrote a book after 911 about the story about some fictional story before it and I just had my character talk about it. That's stupid.

>> It in order in order for Jesus to have made an actual prophecy like you would have had to have somehow shown that he either existed or that the book was written well before 70. So what about other prophecies that was

>> Do you understand what I just said?

>> Okay, let me read this. Maybe you will understand. Let me read this.

>> My god, man. Do you understand what I just said? You could say no and I'll explain it even I'll break it down even dumber

>> before before I just want to ask you this final one and then no. Do you understand what I just said? What I just told you? Do you comprehend what I was saying?

>> You don't. Is that what you said?

>> Understand you.

>> I don't understand you.

>> Okay. Okay. Okay. Uh, let me try this. All right.

>> You and I, we both know that 9/11 happened, right?

>> Yes.

>> Okay. So, you and I, it is possible for us to write a book and try to claim that some someone who lived in 1990 was able to prophesy 911. We're able to write a fiction book like that, right?

>> How can you be able to write a book when you were not there when 911 happened? You have to be there and be involved in the accident before you can write something about it.

>> No.

>> If you are not there in 911 and they tell you 911 just happened, but the 911 that happened, we know that the people they said that committed the act were not the ones.

>> No, no, no, no, no. In fact, that's how No. No. Listen, listen listen. Okay. Okay. For for starters. All right. You're muted because god damn. So, first of all, no. We don't have to be there. 911. Let me ask you unmute. Can we write a story about the Civil War?

>> You can write a story.

>> Can we write a story about the Civil War? evidence of

>> can we write a story about the civil war

>> because it happened and you wrote it?

>> Yes. People wrote because it happened.

>> Sure. But now that we are well past the date that it happened, can we write a story about it? Is that is that possible? Can can you and I write a story about the Civil War?

>> Of course not. Of course not.

>> We can't write a story about the Civil War. That's impossible.

>> Okay. So So what is your point? I'm asking you a question and you failed to

>> No, it's impossible. It's That's what I said. It's

>> It's impossible to write a story about the Civil War.

>> Yes. It's only when when you know you have the proof, then you have the evidence here. You were there when it happened, then you can write about it.

>> I don't I don't think he's I don't think his elevator stopped on all the floors, guys. I'm sorry. Like I I don't think he was understanding what I was saying or something. I don't know. I think maybe maybe he thought I was saying like our own account of it or something. No, I'm saying write a story about the Civil War. All right. Jesus Christ. All right. Uh, JQ.

>> Yes, sir.

>> Yeah. What you got for us, man?

>> Oh, no, man. I'm I just came on. It's going to be short and sweet, man. I agree with you. There is no evidence that Jesus existed. There is evidence that he didn't exist. I mean in the Bible itself is um the part where Paul said he met Jesus on the road to Damascus, right? Is it hard for thee to kick against the pricks or the goss? That [ __ ] is in [ __ ] I'm sorry for cussing, but that's in um

>> the Bakai

>> one of Homer's no one in one of

>> Uripides,

>> right? It's in one of the Greek plays that happened likeund years before Jesus ever came. Uh no about five about 500 years before Jesus supposedly lived. Yeah. It's called the Bakai. It's written by Uripides

>> and it's out the mount of Dianis. Yeah.

>> Yep.

>> And and then and then uh Jesus also

>> Let me ask you a quick question. Let me ask you just just to kind of figure out Jakey. Where did you hear that claim? Where'd you hear that claim?

>> Uh I did a lot of research.

>> Yeah. I was just trying to figure out because I've been saying that for like at least a few months and so I didn't know if it possibly like made its way around Tik Tok and somehow circled back.

>> Uh, but it's out there though. It's out there, man. It's out there. There's a there's a a a book I've been studying called the AASPY Bible and they got a lot of different things in there that exposes Christianity. H.

>> So yeah, I mean, if not not trying to force you to not trying to, you know, change your beliefs or anything, but if you read it, it'll it'll show you how that Christianity [ __ ] is fake.

>> Right. Right. You know what's very real though? Very very real. And I'm I'm being serious here. Uh, it is smoke after a fire and inhaling that smoke. That is that is not good. Uh, and I need you to get a 9volt battery and I need you to replace the 9volt battery that is in your smoke detector because not only is it very loud.

>> Oh man, my bad.

>> But on top of that,

>> on top of that, I I care about your

>> I had the washer washer going too.

>> Well, I care about your safety and it I mean, you just

>> just replace it real quick. It might need a step or something like that.

>> But we good, man. We good.

>> Anyways, that being said, yeah, I agree. Obviously, I agree with you. You agree with me, I agree with you here in on the topic here for Jesus and Paul. But yeah. Yeah.

>> Yeah. And no mermaids. No [ __ ] mermaids.

>> No mermaids. Exactly. Jesus Christ. Yeah. It's ridiculous. But yeah, thank you very much. That is JQ, everybody. I want to get to the next guest, but JQ, thank you very much for coming up. Thank you.

>> All right, thank you, man.

>> All right. All right. Uh, Coco.

>> All right, we'll go with Coco. Uh, Coco, what you got?

>> Yeah, I saw you on YouTube, so I I was trying to figure out where to um join.

>> Uh, first I I Well, the the one of the guys was saying that you didn't have I mean, I've I've heard you stating a couple of theories, but I just think most of them are broad. You aren't being specific, especially when you say that in the Bible some of the historical evidences or historical events don't match up. I can you like give some examples of of them

>> of what exactly

>> that? Okay. So you made a point that some of your belief for not believing that Jesus Christ existed

>> was because the accounts which is the four gospels that gives the you know that tells us about Jesus Christ have events that don't line up with historians or something like that. So I want you to pinpoint some of those events which you are basing on and also before that um your claim about the raanic rabanic stuff. Mhm.

>> I get your point. The rabbanic institution came later,

>> but it still does not dispute the fact that the term rabbi was being used during Jesus's time.

>> Prove it.

>> All right. There's a man. Yeah. So, the term already existed. The institution. Yeah. No,

>> but Okay. So, you have a man called Nicodemus, right? He was called a rabbi. He came to Yeah. Nicodemus. He came to see Jesus.

>> When is any evidence that Nicodemus actually existed? It's only found in one book. because this is someone recalling what's happened.

>> Okay,

>> we don't have any testimony from Nicodemus.

>> In fact, it's only found in one gospel.

>> In fact, I don't even I don't even really know how anybody knew that Jesus did that because he met with Nicodemus in secret in the middle of the night.

>> So,

>> well, most of the times he was with his apostles, right?

>> Okay. So, how does anybody know what he said to Nicodemus if it was just Nicodemus and Jesus? because it's recorded, right? I think some of the questions we're asking, we can't

>> by who?

>> That's an answer we can't give. Certainly, right?

>> Okay. Who recorded it?

>> You can you can use that same bias to any historian.

>> Who recorded it if they're not there?

>> Who recorded who who was not there? If they were not there,

>> if if the apostle was not there during Nicodemus and Jesus's secret meeting, then who recorded it? And why is it only recorded in one gospel?

>> Right? I I I don't know if you know, well, I don't know.

>> That's actually part of my argument was uh I don't think that Jesus as presented by the New Testament existed because of things called third person omnisient style of writing where you're able to hear conversations that happen away from the author. That doesn't make any sense.

>> When Jesus when Jesus is praying in the Garden of Gethsemane, what are the disciples doing? Uh, they they were there. Um

>> they fell asleep.

>> Yeah. So how do they know what he said?

>> Did he tell them later? I don't know.

>> No, he got arrested and then alived.

>> Okay, fair point. But

>> so what are you going to do with that?

>> Okay. Can't you use that same bias? Right.

>> What the [ __ ] was that all about?

>> Yeah. Yeah. And literally anytime that that happens in any other book, I'm gonna say that's [ __ ] too.

>> Okay,

>> that's how that works.

>> Do you have any other example of something like that happening where somebody is able to like hear something while they're asleep?

>> I think science can prove that. Yeah, people can hear stuff even when they're asleep. I mean, there are stories of people as you you said, "Oh, hey, well, when this happens in other historical books, I'm going to call that out and I'm going to call that bullshit." I don't know of any time that it happens in any other historical book, but it happens in the Bible, which means it's [ __ ]

>> No, I I I don't So, we've already covered two things. We've already covered two things. All right. I'm not even going to necessarily harp too materally much on the rabbi thing. I mean, you're wrong. There's absolutely no evidence whatsoever that the term rabbi was used prior. And you appealed to the Bible and you appealed to one story that apparently was written down by someone who wasn't even there, which doesn't make a lot of sense. And then I showed you there's another story uh uh where someone is things are written down and people weren't even like awake to hear it. And even if you think oh well they were at least you know asleep so you know science shows that you could like hear something. Okay then how is it in Luke that it records an angel showing up and helping Jesus while he was praying? What did they see while they were asleep too?

>> Okay. So let me let me say this right. Hold on. Hold up. Hold up. Hold up. So, I mean, these are massive problems that you've never thought of because this is a fictional book. It's a fictional book.

>> There is. You see, when you're talking when you're talking about faith and religion, right?

>> Oh, now you're going to lean on to faith. That's what you're going to do. You're going to lean onto magic and faith.

>> No, it has to it it has to account for stuff. It's it's constants when you're trying when you're trying

>> We're trying to figure out whether or not people existed in the past. All right. We're trying to figure it out. All right. You tried to come up here and you tried to say that the term rabbi actually existed. you didn't give any evidence for it and you just pointed to something that couldn't have been written down by the author anyways. And then I pointed out another problem that's actually in I think all the gospels about how about how he prays in the garden of Gethsemane right before he gets arrested and unalived and people are asleep and Luke actually records something that is happening visually like an angel comes down.

>> How is this possible?

>> Okay, I I I could propose a reason for that. Okay, so

>> okay, go ahead. And don't appeal to magic and don't appeal to faith. And please provide provide a reason for how some people who were asleep were able to see an angel.

>> I'm not going to do that. I'm not I'm not going to do that. So

>> go ahead.

>> One reason could be that right now. If you read the Gospels, it's not recording every second.

>> If you read the Gospels, right?

>> Yeah. It's not recording every minute, every second, every day, every week, literally every time that passes. And so there are certain events that you could argue that well, it happened but it never it was never recorded right so

>> I don't know what you're talking about man you're not getting anywhere closer to explaining how people who are asleep are able to see something

>> like I said there are probably times where maybe he showered it was not recorded he he

>> okay, I'm not talking about things that aren't aren't mentioned I'm thinking Christ dude there's there's not every mention of Jesus taking a [ __ ] what What I'm saying is there are things that are listen

>> listen I'm not talking about things that he appar he he had to have done as if he was human he had to have done but aren't mentioned I'm not talking about that I'm talking about literally the exact opposite things that are talked about that people couldn't have known about that's that's the that's the exact opposite of what you're trying to talk about there please give me give me a reason as to how the disciples would have heard and seen an angel show up if they were asleep.

>> Let me know. Right. So, like I was saying, maybe he told them afterwards the encounter he had.

>> No, because what ends up happening is he wakes up. He goes and he or he gets up. He go gets up from uh from his prayer and then he goes and wakes them up and then Judas shows up and kisses him and then the disciples flee. Yeah.

>> After his death and resurre resurrection.

>> Okay. So you got to appeal to magic. So in other words, you have to say magic happens like resurrection. Yeah. The resurrection.

>> I'm not appealing to that. But like I said, after his death and resurrection,

>> you literally just you just went right back to magic. The resurrection is magic.

>> Dude, how is that magic?

>> It's magic. It is something that is supernatural. That's magic.

>> Okay. So since we are talking about evidence and stuff, are you

>> give me give me the give me an explanation as to how the disciples saw something or heard something while they were asleep.

>> Maybe they were not fully asleep.

>> So Jesus chastises them for not being fully asleep.

>> Maybe

>> you think Jesus knew that they were not asleep, not all the way asleep, and he shows up and he's like, "You [ __ ] couldn't even stay awake. and they were awake like enough to write things down.

>> That's possible. Or that's possible, right?

>> So Jesus just got it wrong then.

>> Well, maybe his statement was should I say um what's the word where you exaggerate something?

>> Oh, so Jesus lied. He got on to them because

>> No,

>> he was wrong. He was exaggerating.

>> I I didn't say lie. I

>> So Jesus was exaggerating. He got on to them and said you couldn't stay awake for one hour, but he knew that they were awake the whole time.

>> Awake enough to write a book and remember what he had said for an hour.

>> Half asleep, right? So half asleep as like you you you

>> then why did he get on to them? Then why did he get on to them for being asleep?

>> Because if they were if they were awake enough if they were awake enough to remember what they saw and remember what they heard for an hour and then then why did Jesus get on to them for being asleep?

>> Well, maybe he I don't know, but

>> Okay. Well, then explain explain how they were explain how they were so asleep that Jesus gets on to them

>> and they also saw things and heard things for an hour.

>> That's literally what I just said that maybe they weren't fully asleep and if

>> but Jesus chastises them for being half asleep and so awake that they're able to remember things.

>> It's possible. So he gets on to them for he gets on to them

>> for being asleep, but they were clearly awake enough to remember everything that happened.

>> I'm saying it's possible. You can't destroy.

>> So Jesus got it wrong then.

>> No, like like I said, he could have exaggerated

>> were asleep.

>> His reaction.

>> Oh, Jesus exaggerates.

>> It's science, right?

>> So Jesus exaggerated then. Look, if we're did Jesus exaggerate if we're looking at

>> Did Jesus exaggerate?

>> How how that's what I'm proposing.

>> Okay. So Jesus were not there and we are trying to figure out why.

>> So sometimes Jesus will get on to you when you don't actually deserve it.

>> No, I'm not. See,

>> is that what you're saying? Because that's what he did.

>> I could use, like I said, I could use the same

>> and I I hope you do. And I hope you do. But do you have any examples of this happening in any other text?

>> I don't know.

>> Yeah, you don't. You don't. So I don't care. So again, so Jesus gets on to you even when you don't deserve it.

>> Get on to you on what?

>> He he accuses you of sleeping when you're not really asleep.

>> Is that what Jesus does? You you aren't being You see, you you you you answer

>> you're wanting to pivot. You're wanting to get out of this corner. I've got you in a corner.

>> I'm not pivoting. What I'm trying to say is what I'm trying to say. I

>> So, answer the question. Does Jesus Does Jesus punish you for something that you didn't do?

>> It's really impossible.

>> Sweet. Does Jesus punish you for something that you didn't do? Because he exaggerates.

>> No. I mean,

>> okay. Well, then I don't know what happened then. I guess they were asleep. Does he deserve punishment?

>> Okay. So, does Jesus chastise you?

>> Do you think that Jesus would have chastise chastises somebody for doing something that they didn't do?

>> I don't know.

>> You think you think that was a good thing to do? You think Jesus exaggerated?

>> I don't know. Do Do you think that would have happened?

>> The whole [ __ ] story didn't happen. Jesus isn't real.

>> Like I said, right, you Okay. If scientists tell you that, okay, the big bang happened and blah blah blah blah blah.

>> Cool. Cool. Cool. So, about Jesus. About Jesus. Do you think that he exaggerated? Yes or no?

>> The same, bro. The same thing applies to this. It's It's not any different.

>> All right, we're going to go ahead and move on. I mean, I know that you made the journey over from YouTube and I wanted to give you a little bit more leeway because of the fact that you did that, but we're going to have to go ahead and move on if you can't just answer just simple questions. Do you think that Jesus exaggerated?

>> I'm answering it, but but you know that if you accept that,

>> it's a yes or no. Did Jesus exaggerate?

>> It's also I said he could have. Oh, he could have

>> because the explaining what we're trying to do is we're trying to explain this situation. We're trying to explain it.

>> So, I want you to explain how the disciples was that maybe he could have told them what occurred, right? Anyone?

>> That's not possible because he gets arrested.

>> They receive they receive a vision. They receive a divine inspiration of what happened. You are saying, "Oh, so it's a vision. Jesus didn't actually pray in the garden. Is that what you're saying,

>> dude? I'm giving an alternative to what could have happened since you don't believe me.

>> But unfortunately, the book says one thing and you're trying to come up with more [ __ ] in order to try to make it happen. That's what you're doing. You either have to appeal to magic or

>> you No, listen. You either have to appeal to magic or you have to change the words itself.

>> Yeah,

>> that's the that's the thing. You either have to insert more to the story in order to try to explain how something that very clearly could not physically happen happened or you have to appeal to magic and say when Jesus magically came back to life, he was able to tell everybody. See, you either have to appeal to magic or you have to change the story.

>> No,

>> I I even try to use the example that we've had evidences, right, of people being in coma,

>> right?

>> Cool. And they can see something that happened.

>> Can they see things?

>> No.

>> Okay. Okay. Well, then how did they see the angel?

>> If you are hearing something,

>> how did they see the angel?

>> Amen.

>> How did they see Jesus sweat drops of blood?

>> Could they hear Jesus sweating drops of blood?

>> Is that Is that what they were able to do? They able to hear the blood come out?

>> It says it in Luke.

>> It doesn't record it.

>> Yeah, it does. It says in Luke that he sweat drops of blood. You think they heard that?

>> It doesn't record that. Yeah, it does. It says that in Luke. Did you not know that he sweat drops of blood when he was praying? I

>> I I was referring to another statement you made. What I what I'm trying to like like I said, it's not every single

>> Sounds like you're back in that corner.

>> No, I'm not back. It's because there, like I said, there are certain are

>> not that I know of.

>> Okay. Are you all right? No. So, how do they know he sweat drops of blood? I don't know.

>> Yeah. It's almost like this book is [ __ ] and you're trying to defend something.

>> Okay. What if Okay, since you said Okay, what if right after it, right? Because the arresting doesn't necessarily happen. I mean, it happens. It's still in the same event, but what if Okay, they woke up, right? They see him and they realize that, oh, he's covered in sweat blood. Maybe that's

>> I'm pretty sure if somebody was sweating blood for an hour, they'd die.

>> No. No, there's actually a science a science I've forgotten the term, but it's scientific.

>> No, you can sweat drops of blood like if you're that like freaking out about something, but not for an hour. That would be crazy.

>> Well, we we've we've had monks live without food and water for days, which is abnormal. The average person

>> Have they lived without blood?

>> What? No, no, no. That's not That's not the main point. That's not the punch line. The punch line is

>> Oh, the punch line is the whole thing is a joke. Yeah, that's a good point.

>> Yeah. No, no, no, it isn't. It isn't because you're hanging. Okay, we have people that can do stuff that the average person can do. So, maybe he could have lost blood.

>> Oh, oh, he's doing something more than an average person can do

>> because remember historically he was beaten, right? They beat

>> So are the other people who went on the cross. That's how they did things.

>> No, they beat him and he still survived, right? So they nailed him. pretty sure that he was already going to be crucified regardless of if he survived the beating.

>> Yeah, he was he was he was because like I if if you're going to follow what happened, right?

>> Uhhuh.

>> The leaders wanted to

>> wanted him dead because of some of the teachings he had done and some of the claims that they believed were blasphemous.

>> Mhm.

>> And so they wanted him dead anyways. Pontius Pilos didn't. Right. Remember he his artificial

>> Pontious Pilot. Okay. Sweet. Pontious pilot. Whenever whenever Pontius Pilot is talked about in history and we see that he actually does not give into the crowd and he actually has multiple times stories where he goes through and has soldiers unal alive a crowd simply because they disagree with him. Why is it that he finds that Jesus is innocent but yet still gives into the crowd? That's exactly what we

>> That's exactly what we know he wouldn't do.

>> What he does is

>> he had No, he had a vision. He had a vision. He did not have a video.

>> I've forgotten what world per the records. It's either him or the wife. One of them.

>> Yeah. Sweet. Okay. So again, again, does he give it to the crowd? Thank you.

>> No, because my reason is because

>> he wash he washes his hands as a sign that look, I'm out of this, right? Whatever you do.

>> Cool. Yeah. Does he give it to the crown?

>> Yeah. If if that's how you want to coin it or you mean by

>> All right. So whenever he whenever he is talked about from actual people who uh knew the guy or was alive at the same time as the guy, he does not give into crowds.

>> I mean, how would you know that those people were there with him like

>> at the same time as him?

>> I don't even think you know when Pilate existed. So I I don't think I don't think that's going to be a good question for you.

>> If if I'm to study Roman history and the time they spent I mean

>> it's very clear that you haven't studied anything when it comes to history which is why you're defending it. Don't. No. Don't try to attack the straw man when I'm trying.

>> It's not a straw man. You just very clearly haven't studied history

>> because you're trying to disprove that. Yeah. I don't know anything about it. And so it's not that I have to prove it. It's that you've already kind of shown it. Every time you open your mouth, it's pretty obvious that you don't know anything about history.

>> That still wouldn't work. That still wouldn't work because for instance, what Columbus did, right?

>> What Columbus did to the the Columbus. Okay.

>> I think the All right, Coco. Thank you for coming over to the natives.

>> All right. We're going to go ahead and move on to somebody who's got some wrinkles on their brain. Uh, let's see. We'll go ahead and start accepting some people here. Uh, let's see. $5 from Zeno Leudre over there on YouTube says, "The sausage. You found it with no queas to hound it." What? Uh, you're ready to down it. Thras has crowned it. Put your mouth around it. What kind of weird stories? He's very clearly off his rocker. Uh, $2 there from Alopee. Uh, this is a sponsored ad for Nope. Holy water. I like that. I like that. Uh, what is going on? Uh, wealth. Wealth. What you got there? Wealth. Wealth. What you got? You there. Wealth. Wealth. They're not coming back up. Uh, let's see. All, let me send you an invite to unmute. What you got? Oh, hello. Hello. Thank you for having me. First time uh viewer and first time panelist. Um, I am a 44 year recovering Southern Baptist. I was in church five days a week.

>> Recovering Southern Baptist.

>> Hell yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> You me, if you don't know any Southern Baptists, uh, they we had come to Jesus meetings and we also had pyro technics. They turn up all the lights and then go back, you know, talk about hell and then have these loud and fla. Let let me let me just say this. Uh, if you're wondering if I know about Southern Baptists, let me just tell you. Um, I participated in three nay four different Heavens Gates Hell's Flames performances.

>> Okay. So you know what I'm talking about. Well, so it it when you're indoctrinated, you're indoctrinated. You don't see it for what the people who are outside of it are saying and why you chug the other side. So, uh, when I saw it, I was like, I can't believe that I I follow somebody like this or is it not true? Then I went further. I'm like, okay, I know what happened. There's no archaeolog from from him when he was there.

>> To be fair, there's a lot of claims that they have his shoes or a robe. Uh, and there's actually, no joke, u at least 18 different churches that over the over the years have claimed to have his foreskin.

>> If anybody does, it's going to be the Ethiopians. Those people were the very first.

>> I don't know. But anyways, uh, I mean, it was Did you have any questions or you just kind of wanted to say that and or or

>> Well, I just wanted to say that there's some of us that are I got called

A Satanist that was going to hell, and that you know. And I said, "Well, my name is in the book of life." So, I, I think that Christians, uh, don't see. And if they have free will, like it says, step out. And if it's not you for you, go back. But at least step out and listen to what other ones are saying and open your mind. That's all I wanted to say.

Yeah, that's a solid, solid piece of advice, to be honest. The idea that like, hey, I mean, if you got free will and your name's in the Lamb's Book of Life or whatever, just, you know, step outside and check for a second, really quick. Go on your rumspringa and start reading some actual history books.

Yeah, there's something to that. And people, the people are so afraid. And I remember that. Don't you? Don't you remember the fear? My stomach was always in knots. I mean, to some extent. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

But I think for me, I think a lot of it is, uh, a lot of it is community. Um, if, if you have a community, like here on TikTok, we have the deconstruction community and everything like that. People who do these lives and talk about this kind of stuff a lot. Um, that's going to be like myself. Um, things like lives from Deconstruction Zone, Joel Reed's Bible, uh, Mezzo, uh, Storm, Amodus Almighty, Ace. Uh, there's, there's going to be some really good lives. There's, there's a, there's a girl that I'm good friends with as well. Uh, her name is Bri, B-R-I. And she does these lives where she talks about how she was actually part of a, uh, Christian cult, uh, growing up, uh, over in Florida and whatnot. So, it was pretty wild, and she actually was able to get out of that stuff. So, it's, it's, uh, actually been on deconstructions several times. So,

Yeah. Uh, Christina the Godless told me I was going. Uh, Christina the Godless is another one as well, if you want like more specific to, uh, like, like the female side of things or like women kind of sharing their experiences with that kind of stuff. As well as Everlasting Godstopper, he's on there as well. So, I don't know, maybe he shares his female side of things. I don't know yet. But anyways, the point is, uh, there's, there's a lot of people, a lot of really cool people in the deconstruction community here on TikTok. So,

I appreciate you and I just wanted to say, you know, Christians, open your mind. And, you know, it's not going to, they're lightning ain't coming down. Thank you.

That was everybody. All right. Oh, and by the way, thank you very much to Solitary Mind420 over there on YouTube. Thank you very much for becoming part of the 35 second gang, becoming a member on YouTube. Thank you very, very much. Uh, there's all kinds of different perks there on YouTube, as well as TikTok, where you've got to upload a lot of the things there for subscribers there on TikTok. But if you are a member on YouTube or a subscriber on TikTok, uh, there are some videos that you get access to that other people don't have access to. Uh, things where, uh, we answer some questions from people, me and my co-author, like direct questions. And then, um, we also have, uh, uh, some, we also have some videos that we started uploading where we are going through and reviewing or responding to one-star reviews. So, if you want to see us respond to some of the harshest reviews of our book, uh, there on Amazon, definitely, definitely become either a subscriber on TikTok or a member on YouTube. Uh, because we are putting up those videos. The first video is like 30 [ __ ] minutes long, so you're going to have to watch that on like two times speed or something. Uh, but it, it, it's a lot of fun to go through those, uh, reviews and just see what kind of drill they're spitting out here. Before too terribly long, we're actually going to knock out the two-star reviews as well. Uh, so it, it, check it out if, if you want to see us actually respond to these these crazier, uh, things because obviously when you, when you see me talking here on the live, lots of times people are like, "Oh, hey, he's just talking to people who are unprepared or he's talking to people who aren't familiar with his arguments and that kind of thing." And thank you very much, Palenta Force, with a little eagle there. Uh, but, um, if you want to see us respond directly to, uh, uh, reviews that are, I guess, kind of sort of fairly well written or written out and thought about and typed up and everything like that, from people who have verified purchasers of the book who have read the book, apparently, or they say they have. Um, if you want to see us respond to those things, definitely check out those videos.

All right. Um, we'll give Wealth another shot here because I'm not sure why it didn't work there. Do a video on the most glazing five-star reviews. No, we're not going to do that. We're not going to do that.

>> Video on the most glazing five-star reviews.

>> We're not going to do that.

>> What you got?

>> That video on the most glazing five-star reviews.

>> Let's see.

>> We're not gonna do that.

>> What you got?

>> That was really weird. That was really, really weird. Okay. Well, I don't know why your microphone, uh, sucks. Uh, but you need to go figure out whatever setup you got and change it. All right.

Uh, what's the Discord? The Discord is Deconstructing Chaos. Uh, I'm pretty sure we can probably get a link to the, uh, to the YouTube chat and the TikTok chat there for Deconstructing Chaos. Very good Discord. Very good Discord. Very informative. A lot of really good information in there. And it's not just me, by the way. I'm not the only channel in there. Deconstructing Chaos also has some other channels that you got definitely got to check out. I know Solo Veno's in there. Uh, I know Hanre's in there as well, and so she will panel on a lot of things. She doesn't typically go live herself, but Hanji's in there. There's a whole bunch of really fun, really fun lives that you can really get to and and and have good, have a good time watching and and and interact with.

Uh, oh, really fast. Uh, let's see. $10. Thank you very, very much there from Palenta Forest. Thank you. Said, "I am deconstructed and queef free." Oh my god. Laughy face. Laughy face. Laughy face. And yay. And then a [ __ ] mermaid. That's Oh my god. Oh my. The mermaid's coming back around. All right. Uh, but yeah, that's Palenta Forest. And we saw your email. I'm not, I'm not gonna bring it up. I'm not gonna bring it up, but we did see your email. We did see your email, and thank you very, very much. It means a lot. Thank you.

All right. Uh, uh, God exists. What you got?

>> Uh, what do you say about the Josephus Antiquities 20,200? What does it say?

>> Is that a question to me?

>> Yep.

>> It's about the high priest's annus and how the anonyist exploited the gap between, um, I think, uh, governor, Roman governor, uh, to convene the Sanhedrin and kill some people.

>> Yep. And

>> You mean James the brother?

>> A bode? No, a bode is Jesus. Um, and it's also just said something like, "I think it is the one called Christ." So, it's also in a

>> Have you read the end of the passage which tells you that that is Jesus son of Damnius who becomes high priest in the early 60s?

>> Can you, um,

>> No, no. Where, where did you read that?

>> You didn't read it all, did you?

>> I did. I did. That's why I'm asking you.

>> Well, it's like three sentences later. Tells you who it is. You stopped reading when you saw the Christ thing. Either that or you just

>> No, I did not. I actually did not. I It is not

>> Well, you didn't read the whole passage. I don't know what to tell you, man.

>> So, what is it saying exactly?

>> It's Jesus, son of Damnas, who becomes high priest in the early 60s. It goes on like all the next paragraphs and passages and stuff like that, like for like at least three or four sections are going to be over that Jesus.

>> All right. All right. I see. I have to go back then, to be honest.

>> Yeah. Anything else?

>> Yeah. Um, can you say that something doesn't exist if you don't have, if you don't have proof?

>> Uh, that doesn't make any sense. Is the question. Rephrase it.

>> If, can you say that something does not exist even if you don't have proof that it doesn't exist?

>> I do have proof that Jesus didn't exist. No, this is not a question. Can you

>> It's a, it's a stupid question because it's trying to lead me. It's trying to lead me in. No, no, no. What it's showing is that you very clearly are thinking that I don't have evidence that Jesus didn't exist. I do have evidence he didn't exist.

>> Nope.

>> So, your question is

>> No, it is. It's that's an upcoming question. That's why I'm asking this question.

>> Can I say that something didn't exist if I don't have evidence of it not existing or something?

>> Yes.

>> No, because that's a positive statement. And if I don't have evidence for it, I can't really say it too terribly well.

>> Exactly. So,

>> I know that you, you will like this question and I know that the chat will like this question.

>> All right. So, explain why you ask.

>> How do you, how do you prove that mermaids don't exist?

>> Mermaids because

>> They can't exist. Human, human beings

>> because human beings and, uh, uh, fish have completely different, not only just like DNA,

>> but we have completely different insides and everything like that. Like, it wouldn't, it wouldn't work. Like a human, human skin in that particular environment would not work.

>> Yeah. And how did human

>> Also, human, human lungs and stuff like that, like, like we would be able to survive.

>> How did human beings come on Earth? How did they come on Earth exactly from your point of view?

>> How did human, human beings come in existence?

>> That is irrelevant to the topic.

>> No, it's not, because they're coming from the sea.

>> Cool.

>> So, how can you prove that mermaids don't exist?

>> Sweet. So when they came from the sea, were they half human?

>> No. But you don't know. So then I guess in a different direction.

>> Listen, listen, listen, listen, listen.

>> I just want to show you that you're, I know that you're logically. Listen. It is impossible for it is impossible for mermaids to exist because of the actual make. Yes. Because of the makeup of the body. The fact that you don't know that shows how absolutely stupid you are.

>> Because you're comparing it to human beings and not to a mermaid.

>> What do you think a mermaid is? I'm not saying they exist. What is a mermaid? I'm just stating what is a mermaid. Show you that you have.

>> What is a mermaid?

>> I have no idea. I've never found some, something.

>> I didn't ask if you've seen one. I didn't ask if you found one. I've never examined them. But they can be totally different from

>> God exists. This is what I'm going to do. I'm either going to block you or you're going to answer the [ __ ] question. What is a mermaid? Explain what it is. You see, you're out. You don't explain what it is. This is why you, this is why you explain what it is. Because you can't answer this question.

>> Sweet. Explain what it is.

>> I can't because I never found one.

>> Sounds good.

>> And you're not thinking.

>> Tell your mom I said, "Hey." All right. We're not playing that game. A mermaid cannot exist. That's not what. It's not possible. So, it's not just the fact that I haven't seen one. It's the fact that it is impossible. All right.

Uh, let's see. And for everybody who's actually interested here, the definition of a mermaid. Well, a mythical, already not a great start. Sea creature with a human head and upper body and a fish's tail. So, not capable of like actually surviving. The skin itself would not survive in the water like that. All right. See if I can see. There you go. All right.

Uh, if anybody's got any evidence for Jesus or Paul, come on up. We'll try Wealth again, but I don't know what's going on. I don't know what's going on with their microphone or their connection. Maybe it's just a bad connection. All right. Uh, they're from, uh, super chat. They're $5 from Alopnote says, "We should raid Mezo live stream and tell him happy birthday." You know what? If he's still on, if he is still on when I when I hop off later, I will absolutely do it. I will absolutely raid Mezo and tell him happy birthday. I'll do it. Okay.

Wealth, are you there?

>> I think that's better.

>> Hello. Wealth.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I think that's better.

>> Well, he's still really quiet. What? What are you calling from? A walkie-talkie?

>> Of course I'm using an earphone wire.

>> Can, can you, can you hear now?

>> I mean,

>> to some extent. I mean, is it, are people able to hear? Are you guys able to hear Wealth there?

>> I don't know.

>> I maybe that's a little better. I mean, I don't know. Like, where'd you get your headphone?

>> Alexander Graham Bell.

>> Of course.

>> Okay. All right. Well, nevertheless, continue.

>> Okay. Um, well, not like I'm trying to, the disclaimer or how would I put it? Trying to say you are wrong. But I'm trying to ask is, are you asking if Jesus as a person exists or the, the way the, how would I put it, is as a person, the one that is given to us, is that the stuff you're saying does not exist? If you're asking, does Jesus exist as a person? I truly believe he existed. The lies about they gave us. Yes, I believe that one. I used to do it, mate. Man, I don't know what the [ __ ] you're saying.

>> What I'm asking is, are you asking if Jesus as a person exists or is trying to find

>> Yes, I think I understood. Yes.

>> So, like, which one? Which, which is the question here? Does Jesus exist as a person?

>> Yeah.

>> That's the question. The, how would I put it? Does Jesus just, I believe he existed and should I bring proof? I mean, you have calendars that basically

>> I mean, a calendar like today, it's Tuesday, at least in America. I don't know where you're at.

>> Gregorian calendar, Gregorian calendar is basically on Jesus' existence that we have before, before Christ, which means before he was born, then after he was born, which is Anno Domini or whatever they're calling it.

>> So, how, when they have

>> That's just part of a calendar. Also, today is Tuesday, and that's based off of the Norse god Two. Does that mean that Two existed? See, let me, let me tell you, let me tell you what. You see, Jesus existed, but it's just that these lies, these lies about him, as this, these lies, I won't lie with you, this story about him is fake. Jesus existed, but the

>> If you got any evidence for Jesus, Paul, come on up. Definitely want to hear from. And I know that it's technically T, but the, the, it, it gets changed in old English to like Two, which is why we get Tuesday. The homie tears. All right, those damn missionaries. What's the Roman records say from just passing by? If you got any evidence for Jesus, Paul, come on up. Request up. I take guests on TikTok. So, if you're on YouTube, you can click the link that's in the chat and you can come up. But somebody actually earlier from YouTube actually came up. I think a lot of people do actually come up from YouTube. It's just don't really say it. Um, I mean, you don't have to. It's not, it's not that big of a deal. But if you click the link that's in the chat there on, uh, uh, YouTube, you can, uh, come up, uh, request up there on TikTok. If you don't want to, you can send a super chat with a question or a statement, uh, or just, you know, an insult. That's fine. I will read it out loud and I will respond to it. I promise. Um, if you send a super chat, or you can request up and I'll bring you up. I'm not opposed to having a conversation. Just come on up.

Softball Head says, "No, they didn't. They didn't. What? Didn't didn't exist." Yeah. There we go. Knock says, "Today's Wednesday." Where are you in Australia or something? Bri says, "I could just insult you for free." Bri, I don't like what our relationship has become. First, I thought you were friendly. Thought you were just like a really nice, really nice person. Then somebody told me that you were a mouse. And I started saying, "Hey, look, it's mouse." Now I get dropped off of panels because apparently the mouse doesn't like the sound of my voice. I started it. Sabrina, listen. If I started it, I'm ending it now. I don't know what I need to do. I'm out of mice and merman. Lol. So I win. I didn't know it was a competition. All right. Had to drop a government name. Odin's day tomorrow. It is Tracy, formerly Yonto. Dollar 999 says, "Happy Quick Day." All right. Well, where's the [ __ ] There it is. Okay. Okay. We're actually doing pretty good on the keywords. We're not. It's not. It's not. It's not too bad. It's not too bad. I think it's kind of worn off there. Everything's a competition, including how high we can reach. Is that a competition there, Bri? That a competition? Yeah. Also, Jesus, I can climb as if I can't. In fact, I can reach further. Climb faster. I assume. I don't know. You might be one of those. You, you kind of strike me as one of those people who does a lot of rock climbing. Like you like you go to like those [ __ ] like gyms or whatever with the things that kids do their birthday parties at and you're just like the beast mode and that [ __ ] ringing the bell and dropping. Yeah. Yeah. Just screaming as she's like dropping slowly down. Oh man. I don't know. Told people probably never learned how to climb. I have long nose. I do not. In fact, rock climb. Uh, you should do, you should do that trick that we learned yesterday, which is use scissors to cut your nails.

All right. Uh, Matthew Molken, $5 says, "On the mer person thing, mammals have a fluke tail up and down. Fish tails are side to side. Checkmate. Also, in Zoolander, it was a merman." That is a good point. Yeah. Again, it's not a, it wouldn't. Mermaids are not real. That they can't, they can't be real. They can't function. They wouldn't, it wouldn't even really make any sense, like skin to scales. Like how would that, how would that even work? But why male models? And sure people have to learn how to out of necessity believing in mermaids. Aliens are never going to talk to us. See, that's the thing. All right.

Uh, Coco's back, everybody. Coco's back. He's doing what Jesus, uh, preached and turning the other cheek so we can get the other side of his ass.

>> Back, everybody.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I'm back. I'm back. Um, funnily enough, I, I, I, I heard your claim about, "Oh, yeah. Mm exist," which I, I understand, right? We don't really have any evidence, but

>> Based off mermaids exist.1.

>> No. Okay.

>> No.

>> Then we can continue the conversation.

>> Right. But you were making a claim that, oh,

>> What's your evidence for Jesus?

>> But anyways,

>> Okay. So, we left off somewhere where we were talking about, um, the, the events in the garden, right? And at first I wasn't sure about something, but then

>> Which garden? I, I got the Gethsemane about when Jesus Christ was praying. Okay, you got me lost there in the event. So this what happened here

>> Because I was trying to explain what's evidence for Jesus, Paul, man, just present the evidence for Jesus, Paul. Come on.

>> Historically.

>> Yeah.

>> Historically, that right. Okay. One, the Bible.

>> We can use Luke.

>> And then you have

>> Is that what you said?

>> Okay.

>> I want to use one. Is that what you said?

>> That's one. Then you have Tyson.

>> All right. Well, hold. Did you say we can use Luke?

>> Yeah. I'm listening. I'm, I'm making a list.

>> All right. Sweet. So, here is Luke. Luke chapter 2. Why does it say in Luke that Jesus was born in Bethlehem? How, how did he get to Bethlehem and why? Go ahead.

>> Well, is there any proof that it's he was not born in Bethlehem?

>> That's not an answer to my question.

>> Yeah, because there has to, that's the fact that is stated. Now, if you have

>> How does he get to Bethlehem and why?

>> In Luke,

>> Why does he get to Bethlehem? How did he get to Bethlehem?

>> I'm not very familiar with it. Can you maybe update me on it?

>> So, you said we could use a book that talks about Jesus that you aren't familiar with.

>> I know, Luke. But you are talking about a specific

>> Yeah. A pretty important part is [ __ ] birth, which most people who have existed have been born. And there's only two birth stories in the entire Bible of Jesus. And you aren't familiar with one of them. Generally, we know that he was born in Bethlehem. But are you trying to say that other stories?

>> Because he was born there.

>> Yeah. Why was he in Bethlehem? Why was he born in Bethlehem if his parents were from Nazareth?

>> Okay. So the, what I know is that

>> Okay, you can either

>> Somewhere else. All right. You know what? Here, I'm just going to tell you. No. Okay. In those days, a decree went out from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be registered. This was the first registration and was taken while Quirinius was governor of Syria. In other words, there's a census that is taken. And Joseph also went from the town of Nazareth in Galilee to Judea to the city of David called Bethlehem because he was

>> You don't even give me the time to narrate what exactly happened.

>> He went to be registered with Mary to whom he was engaged, expecting a child. While they were there, the time came for her to deliver the child. So, in other words, Jesus is born in Bethlehem because there is a census at the time. Correct?

>> Yeah.

>> Okay. Okay. And this census was done when who was governor?

>> Caesar.

>> No.

>> Augustus. Oh, Quirinius. Yeah.

>> Yeah. Quirinius. Yes. Quirinius becomes the governor of Syria and does the census

>> in six, 6 CE. This is a known census that is talked about, uh, by multiple people.

>> All right.

>> Okay.

>> Now, here's the problem. If Jesus, how old was Jesus when he died? I think 33, right?

>> Okay. So, if he is born in the year six, then what year is it when he dies? If he's 33 years old, what year is it?

>> Uh, I'm not that sharp to do that math, but

>> It's simple. You don't have to round nothing.

>> Well, below 30

>> Six plus 33.

>> Oh, 39. All right. So Jesus had to have died sometime around the year 39, according to Luke. Correct?

>> Well, Luke doesn't make that conclusion.

>> Correct?

>> Based off your math.

>> Correct?

>> Yeah. All right. Here's the problem.

>> Okay.

>> Pilot was dismissed from office in 36. Okay.

>> He had been gone. He wasn't even in office in Judea for three years before Jesus died.

>> So, how did he crucify him?

>> Now, if there's something which

>> How did he crucify him?

>> Look,

>> sounds like the Gospel of Luke is just pulling [ __ ] out of his ass. Uh, but I'm not done. I'm not done. All right. So, in Luke, in Luke 3, we have this.

>> I don't think that's a strong evidence because I, okay, give me the evidence that Pilot unalived him.

>> If Luke says he was born in six and you said he died at the year or at the age of 33, which would be around 39.

>> Dude, I just mentioned it. All right, I, I could go off to list off other stuff, right?

>> Listen, listen, so explain this issue. How does Pilate crucify him if Pilate isn't in office in 36, but Jesus dies in 39? How's that possible? Maybe someone is getting, I mean, not adding the dates or the date is approaching.

>> It's almost like it's almost like it's [ __ ] We'll continue on and show. No, listen. Now, in Luke 3, it says, "In the 15th year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar," this is the year 29, because he starts his reign in 14, when Pontius Pilate was governor of Judea. That's fine. And Herod, this is Antipus, was ruler of Galilee, and his brother Philip, ruler of the region of Ituraea and Trachonitis. These are all fine. These all line up. Lysanias the ruler of Abilene. Uh, no, he dies in 33 BCE, 60 years before this period is when this guy dies.

>> How do you explain that?

>> Are there, are there historians that disprove that?

>> No. Because we have coins with Lysanias's [ __ ] face on them and they say that his reign ends in 36, or he's in 36. He's in the middle of the first century. It's

>> Anyways, anyways, with that aside, like, like I said, right, you were asking how do you explain this evidence?

>> Well, I can't explain. I'm not a historian to have.

>> So, why did you use Luke as any kind of evidence when it's obvious you haven't even read Luke? On top of that, you're trying to say it's evidence when you haven't looked into whether or not it would be good evidence. That was the first thing out of your [ __ ] mouth, and you haven't even read it, let alone actually understood it.

>> I, I get it, right?

>> So, why did you use it? Like you said that lines up.

>> Why did you, Luke doesn't line up with history. It doesn't even line up with his own self. In fact, what it says here is it talks about in Luke 2, of course, the Quirinius, the governor of Syria, uh, who is reigning, uh, when Jesus is born. But in Luke 1, when Jesus is in Judea alongside John the Baptist, it is during the time of King Herod, who died in 4 BC. So Mary was pregnant for 10 years minimum. Bro,

>> Is the Luke that stays when Mary was pregnant?

>> Yep. In fact, uh, Mary and Elizabeth are, uh, pregnant at the same time. Mary visits Elizabeth. Let's see. Uh, let's see right here. "As soon as I heard the cry of my child in my womb leaped for joy."

>> Bro. I was pregnant. So I guess Luke has Mary pregnant for 10 years.

>> And Jesus dies 33 at the hands of Pilate, 3 years after he gets dismissed from office, and also he has a guy who died 60 years before Pilate shows up who is reigning at the same time as Pilate is.

>> So here is the

>> Is that really the best thing you wanted to lead with?

>> No, no, no. Here is the tin. Here's the thing. You are comparing what Luke says with another history. What source is it? What source is it? I mean, itself.

>> No, no, no, no. Whatever source you are getting that information from to say that what Luke is saying is wrong would have to also be correct. So that means we also have to go and judge the authenticity.

>> So,

>> Again, I told you already that we have multiple people who talk about the census that

>> Mention, mention, I brought up Luke. Bring them up. Let's look at what they say. Let's look at another person's statement.

>> All right. The census of Quirinius.

>> Because it's like, "Trust me, bro."

>> Nope. It's not. So we can actually take a look multiple times.

>> Wikipedia.

>> Yes. So Josephus actually gives it. So Josephus actually gives it. There's actually, uh, as well, historians like Cassius.

>> Cassius. We also have

>> Jesus Christ existed. Yeah. They all believe Jesus Christ existed.

>> Yep.

>> Are you sure?

>> Flavius Josephus. Yep.

>> Okay. So what does Josephus say about it?

>> Uh, Josephus, I think he was a Jewish historian, right? So, he wasn't Christian.

>> Bro.

>> Was Joseph?

>> He doesn't have to be. No, he doesn't have to be Christian.

>> No, I know. I'm asking you. Was Josephus Christian?

>> Someone does not have to be American to know that I'm

>> Asking you if he has to be. I'm asking you if he was.

>> I don't know if he was, but what I, if I look his name up, it says Jewish historian, priest.

>> Was he Christian? Yes or no?

>> It doesn't make any mention of him being a Christian. Okay.

>> It just says he was a Jewish historian.

>> Okay. Because he was Jewish. That's what we know. He was a practicing Jewish person. He was not Christian. All right. So, please, what does he say about

>> What does that do? No. What, what does that do?

>> I'm just establishing, establishing a baseline. So, what does he say about Jesus?

>> Probably, I just have to maybe paraphrase a little bit.

>> What does he say about Jesus? I, like I said, I know he, he is one of the people that based on his own historic evidences and research and stuff.

>> Again, what does he say about Jesus? Skip, skip ahead a couple chapters, buddy.

>> I, I, I'm not able to pinpoint exactly one, right? Because

>> Well, you told me that he said something about Jesus and you can't say [ __ ] about what he said. That's really weird. It keeps, seems like you keep bringing up things as evidence when you actually haven't read it at all. That's really weird.

>> No, you're asking for specifics. You brought, you mentioned his name.

>> You're the one who literally brought up Josephus. You said that Josephus talked about Jesus. I'm saying that Josephus talked about his census because he did.

>> Well, he was a historian. I believe there are certain things he has written about about him. Well, you were mentioning him. So, I was like, "Oh, yeah. I think he's one of

>> Yeah. Now you're trying to pivot and you're trying to say that Josephus talks about Jesus because you were getting your ass kicked whenever we came to the census on Luke because you couldn't explain that.

>> So you're trying to pivot away from it and now you just jumped from the frying pan into the pot.

>> Look, if, if, if I, I do more research about him because I know for a, because I've seen

>> You should try starting just any kind of reading, like literally any book, because it's pretty obvious to me that you haven't read anything. You're just kind of regurgitating what you've heard and you're doing a really shitty job of it, too.

>> But some of them I think have come over the content.

>> What does Josephus say about Jesus?

>> All right. So, let me, let me, if I, I mean, you, you can look it up, right? So,

>> Cool. What does he say? I don't have to look it up. I know it. What does he say?

>> Well, you have to look on Wikipedia.

>> What does he say?

>> All right. Give me a sec. Ah, the music. Okay. So, um, so there's apparently a book that he wrote either. Yeah, I think the, the break is about. So, what did you read in this book?

>> Okay. So there is a, um, chapter, okay, book, sorry, Testimonium Flavianum. All right. I don't know whether it's Latin or Greek.

>> That is Antiquities Book 18, Chapter 3, Section 3, isn't it?

>> Yeah. So he described Jesus as a wise man who performed remarkable deeds and was crucified by Pontius Pilate.

>> You're not reading it, are you? You're just reading an AI overview, aren't you? Aren't you?

>> It goes to Wikipedia.

>> Cool. Take a look at it at Wikipedia and read the actual thing.

>> All right. So, I think that should be in reference. Um,

>> Sweet. Read the actual thing.

>> All right. So, he said, "The first and most extensive reference of Jesus in the

>> Read the actual thing.

>> Read the quote.

>> From where?

>> Read the quote. I don't care where you find it. Read the quote.

>> Okay. Can you, can you give me a help of the paragraph because it's, it's huge. Maybe you've read

>> Again, it's Antiquities of the Jews, Book 18, Chapter 3, Section 3. Or if the copy of the works that you have doesn't have, uh, chapters, it's going to be Book 18, Section 63. So Wikipedia doesn't. I mean, you were using that as a reference, so I don't

>> Yeah, Wikipedia has the entire quote. [ __ ] look it up.

>> All right. Uh, so Testimonium Flavianum, the Testimonium. Um, okay, describes condemnation and crucifixion of Jesus Christ at hand.

>> Look at the actual quote. That's what we're looking for, buddy. I don't care if it's on this time.

>> There we go. You finally found it.

>> Okay. Right. Well, you were hot on my heels there.

>> All right. A wise man.

>> So, what does it say?

>> "If indeed, if indeed one ought to call him a man."

>> All right. Stop.

>> For

>> So, what does that mean?

>> "About this time there lived Jesus."

>> Listen. Listen. What does it mean when it says, "If it be lawful to call him a man?"

>> "If indeed y-"

>> "One ought to call him a man."

>> What does that mean?

>> I don't know. That means that he's potentially a god. Do you think a Jewish person living at the Roman emperor's compound in the '90s would have said that?

>> Paul was Jewish?

>> I didn't ask God.

>> I didn't say Paul at all.

>> You said if your premise, practicing Jewish person would have called would have called Jesus potentially God.

>> Yes.

>> Okay. I want you to name me one non-Christian Jewish person who says Jesus was potentially God. Paul.

>> No, he was Christian.

>> But he was a Jew.

>> I literally just said a non-Christian Jewish person.

>> Now, the Jews, right? Because remember,

>> In my first

>> You're either going you're either going to have to

>> Wait, wait, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. Let me, let me explain myself. Let me explain myself. Let me explain myself.

>> Let me explain myself. Okay. So,

>> The reason for them crucifying him was because he said he was before Abraham. He used the word I am. Right.

>> Sweet. Which

>> What we're going to do is we are going to have, uh, a little, little bit of fun here. You're either going to say that you're just kind of pulling it out of your ass, this whole argument, like you don't have no giving you or you can give me or you can give me an example of a non-Christian Jewish person who says Jesus was potentially God or you can get blocked, which would you like? You can get blocked. You can give me evidence of a non-Christian Jewish person who says Jesus was God or potentially God or you can say that we don't have any example of that.

>> The only example I have is is from the Bible that I know of.

>> Give me a, okay. A non-Christian Jewish person who says Jesus was God or potentially God.

>> Like I say, you say potentially God.

>> The example who

>> And I said my only reference is from the Bible. The

>> Who in the Bible says

>> Okay, so

>> Who in the Bible says this?

>> There isn't a name. There is a group of people that did it. Sweet. So then tell me that you have no idea what you're talking about.

>> Okay. Can you allow me to explain what I'm talking about?

>> Yeah. No.

>> So, like I said, right?

>> Uh, Matrio, how's it go? Or Matricom or something, whatever your name is.

>> Yeah.

>> Oh, somehow you got muted. Give me one second there. Oh, [ __ ] As soon as you unmuted, I mute. Oh, there you go. There you go. Okay. What you got?

>> No, I'm, I'm from Chicago, man. Uh, the whole thing is, uh, you know, I mean, Koko, he, he's, he's got to study a little bit more. Uh, but I, I, I've looked at all these texts. Yeah. Yeah. I've looked at all these texts. They're historical documents. Can things change over time? Possibly. Uh, I found a lot of things that were incorrect with, with, uh, the translations of today with the Bible. Uh, you know, murder and kill and the Ten Commandments or Job lost everything. Oh, he was restored. It's, it's, it's actually not true. If you lost all your kids, whatever. Just, I'm going to get to this point. Uh, David, I think he just walked up with the slingshot and shot Goliath in the head. They could pop a bird.

>> A lot of the phrases that you're using here are not allowed on TikTok. You're probably going to get like a notice. But that, that being said, what's your evidence for Jesus, Paul? Let's skip ahead to that part. So, so I actually worked for a company where they, you know, retrieve the, uh, DNA, right, of a lot of people. Um, and I say probably don't do that. Uh, all in all, um, it's, it's not about the proof of it. It's, it's the things that we, we found out working for the, uh, company. And that's all I'm going to say. Um, and, and the, my wife found out she had a sister. You didn't know, whatever. It's, it's pretty accurate. Um, and finding out that through the DNA, um, it, it links back to one woman in Eastern Africa with three haplo groups. We, we kind of believe that's Noah's wife.

>> I got to be honest with you, chief. I don't know what the [ __ ] you're talking about. I really don't. We're, we're talking about Jesus and Paul. I have no idea. What are you going on about?

>> Well, I, I do believe that some of the historical texts have been, uh, sort of, you know, misinterpreted over time.

>> And that's fine, but what about Jesus and Paul? Like, do you think they existed or or not?

>> Well, for, for me, um, there's, there's no way of saying when you asked about Josephus, uh, there's, there's no description, there's no description of Jesus. It's actually, oh, he's a nice man. And he spoke very well and whatever. Uh, the question is, do you believe in historical documents? Does the Bible have multiple chapters that are, are also the same throughout the book? Uh, are they analogies? Whatever. Um, I, I, I can't, you can't go off feelings. It's, it's almost like your, your argument is proven. Okay. Um, but I, I was saying that there was something about the DNA of every, of every human being.

>> Right. So, do you think that Jesus existed 2,000 years ago as a natural, like a natural Jesus or Paul, and or Paul there?

>> Well, I would think that there were would be some remnants from people today, uh, that would link back some sort of DNA, uh, or they could have probably got the DNA off the shroud, or if that was the actual shroud. And I'm not here to, to just be lost with it. I just wanted to pose that sort of question out to you, uh, with the thoughts. However, we do know for a fact that we all are related.

>> What question have you asked me?

>> That wouldn't you, would you believe that the DNA somehow would link back to Jesus in some way, shape, or form?

>> What DNA?

>> So people, you know, you spit into a cup. It's what it is. Okay. And, and my, my question that's hard for me to understand, before, before you shoot me down, that's hard for me to understand is that wouldn't there be some sort of linking back to this man from Galilee? Or, and that's, that's the thought, and that's all. So that's all I, I don't, I don't want to waste your time, but don't you think that there would be some linking back? We're, we're pretty sure that that link back is to Noah and his wife with everyone that's here today. It, it, it, it's actually the science of it. Uh,

>> That doesn't make any sense.

>> Well, it's so, if, if you take the Bible literally, if Noah and his wife stepped off the, stepped off the ark along with his three sons and their wives, that would be eight people, right?

>> It's eight people on the planet. It is physically impossible, first of all, for people to actually survive just with eight people like that. But even if that was the case, um, no, that wouldn't make any sense because later on, you have, uh, 1.5 million minimum, uh, uh, Israelites leaving or Hebrews leaving Egypt in the Exodus. That would be, and this is true, more than the population of the planet if you had just been bottlenecked to eight people when Noah steps off the ark. So, no, taking the Bible literally is stupid. That's not a real thing. In no way, shape, or form, in no way, shape, or form did Noah's Ark actually happen.

>> Well, a lot, a lot of old, uh, texts, they, they all talk about the great deluge. Um,

>> Yeah, there's a lot of floods that happen because people tend to live in areas, uh, next to rivers. And rivers, uh, in the parts that actually flow pretty smoothly and whatnot, are generally not the tops of [ __ ] mountains or the sides of mountains, but in the valleys. So, those areas around rivers, especially flood. Floods happen. We live near water because that's literally what keeps us alive. And so people going back a really long time would have to deal with two things. That is going to be floods and it's going to be fires. These are, these two things happen quite a bit.

>> Well, you know,

>> Finding stories about them is not surprising.

>> I, I usually don't comment, you know, on some of these groups and whatever, but I, I did see you guys on YouTube. You're a pretty smart guy, man. I, I, that's why I wanted to ask you. I mean, does that not make sense that like human beings live near rivers, so floods are going to be impactable?

>> Sure. I mean, even, even in the book of Genesis, they talk about, you know, there's a land of Nod or whatever, all that good stuff. Yeah.

>> And all these other people that were on the earth, you know, but I, I think there was something that did happen.

>> Maybe it's not a flood.

>> Uh, and, and it, it's interesting how we're all related back to these three haplo groups, uh, related to one woman in Eastern Africa. That's, that's all. Um, and I just, I just thought it'd be some new information.

>> The understanding that like we come from Eastern Africa and everything like that, it's perfectly fine. And obviously the further we go back whenever we read things, it's going to be over in that sort of kind of area. But nevertheless, that doesn't mean that the stories that are recorded into the Old Testament are even remotely close to true. Especially since the Old Testament isn't even written until about the 3rd century BC.

>> So it, it wouldn't even work. It's written around 300 at earliest BCE about stories that supposedly happened. Like if Noah actually did step off the ark, that would be in like somewhere around like 3,000 BC or something.

>> Well, that's crazy far back. Like, how were they able to maintain the story for 2700 years?

>> Well, that's just me and, uh, some of the guys that work. That's our interpretation. You know, it's, it, it could be false and I understand, but, but it, it still does link back to that woman with with three, uh, generations that came from it. And, and if you do a little research on that, you'll, you'll see that I'm, I'm telling the truth or if anybody's done ancestry, you find out relatives you never knew you had or a brother, your mother's not your mother, whatever.

>> Right. Right. All right. So I mean, uh, humans have hundreds of specific HLA groups branching.

into thousands of sublineages, but they are categorized globally into about 20 or 30 major foundational groups.

Look up the origin of the DNA that was with for with some of the companies that take in the DNA. It all links back. Uh, the algorithms are pretty strong. Um, to go back to like Ancestry.com or 23andMe. Um, be slightly, you know, surprised if, if anybody here has done it, to find out that you, you really are related to these people. So it all points back to like a cylindrical, uh, point where.

I mean, I did just look it up. It says every person has a maternal mitochondrial DNA HLA group, and males also have a paternal Y chromosome HLA group. Again, categorized globally into about 20 to 30 major foundational groups. The idea that it comes down to just like eight or whatever, or the idea that it comes down to Noah's Ark, that's not true. That is something that like Christians have said for at least a little bit of time because every once in a while when science sort of kind of sounds like something that they could spin, uh, they, they, they jump on it. But it's definitely not the case. Again, I need you to understand, if eight people stepped off the ark, there would be no more humans today because that's impossible. You can't go from eight people. Eight people would not survive. Eight people could not survive on on the planet, especially after hitting a massive reset like that on like, uh, things like trees and plants and everything. Everything would have been dead if it was underwater.

I, I'm saying, in saltwater.

Sure. Sure. I, I'm saying that, uh, don't shoot the messenger. It's, it's just basically what, what it is. Somehow, believe it or not, that even you and I, believe it because I looked it up and it wasn't true. Well, I'm saying, even you and I, in some way, way, way back, we're somehow related years and years. Kind of sort of like if you go back so far that we're like talking like ape ancestors or or specific ancestors. Yeah, that's fine. But that doesn't, that doesn't somehow equate to eight people stepped off the ark. I think that's, that's the thing. Like, again, as science finds out that like, hey, yeah, technically speaking, all the humans do have a common ancestor. So, yeah, in a sense, yes, we are all related. Christians hear that, so they go, "Oh, that's evidence of the, of the book. That's evidence of my favorite book." No, it's not. The time that our ancestor, our common ancestor would have actually existed is so far back before the supposed that it doesn't make any sense as to why anybody would point to Noah and be like, "That's the person," or his wife and be like, "That's."

No, I mean, you're definitely a, a very intelligent, uh, person. I, I don't think that anybody has, has a reason for why we all relate back to to one human being if, if or or two or whatever. And, and that's, that's the thing. That's the question that I, no one can solve that, that question. I don't have the answer for that. And, uh, but, but we were deeply in it. And, uh, and God forbid years later, they use that DNA to, uh, find somebody at a, a scene or something or whatever. I, I don't know if it's smart to do that, uh, to do the, to do the DNA test. All in all, I'm just saying that, what, what's your thoughts on how we are related? That's, that's what I wanted to ask.

We are, we're, we're apes. We're hominids. Like, yeah, we, we are. But like, you'd have to go back incredibly far to find one specific, one specific, uh, uh, ancestor that everybody could branch off from. Like, it would have to go incredibly far back.

Okay.

But, I mean, the Bible itself only tries to go back about 5,000, something like 5,700 years or something. So, it's, it's, it's impossible for those stories to have been true, uh, when it talks about like the origin of, of, of humans like Adam and Eve, or when it bottlenecks it again about a thousand years later with the story of, uh, Noah's Ark. Like, those are impossible. It's impossible for that to have happened.

Yeah.

And our common ancestor, like, even if it goes down to one, they would not be a human. That wouldn't be a human. It would be something incredibly far back to the point to where it doesn't even have legs. Like, don't even have eyes, probably, when we're talking about like one, if, if we're having to whittle it down to one particular thing. I don't even think it's really even.

Well, I guess, I guess it's possible, but it's, it'd be one thing and it wouldn't even look human. Not even close.

Well, I, I see a lot of people, they're based in Christianity or the Bible or whatever. But, but this was just saying the science. I, uh, just, just study what I'm saying and, and I'll be back at a later date just to converse about it. But forgive me if I wasted any of your time. I, I respect you guys. So, you know.

It's not a waste of time. It's just what I would recommend you doing is, I mean, obviously studying this kind of stuff. I mean, it sounds like you, you are at least familiar with science. I mean, so that's fine. That's good. That's obviously encouraged. But nevertheless, don't fall for the, don't fall for the the trick that a lots of, uh, uh, Christians or apologists do where they will say, "Hey, um, science goes hand in hand with the Bible." It [ __ ] doesn't. Like, it really doesn't. You, I mean,

one of these, one of these has evidence, one of these, definitely, one of these has evidence, one of them don't. And they don't, they don't line up. And again, people will sometimes hear something that sounds remotely close to what their book says and they say, "Oh, look, awesome. That means that our book is the same." No, it's, it's nothing more than wishful thinking, uh, twisting, and post hoc rationalization.

That's definitely not me.

Yeah. Uh, but, but I just, I'm just saying that, just the fact that the, the relational, uh, the DNA is somehow related to where we're all, every person on the surface turned it in, and we haven't found one person yet. There are some interesting things about the, uh, the Ashkenazi, uh, uh, and, uh, and other things. But all in all, we all still are in a way related. And that's, that is something that is interesting. Uh, so I, I just said, uh, just, just study a little bit about it. I, I'd love to talk about this. Um, but, uh, anyway, I'll, I'll let you guys go. Sorry if, uh, you know, waste anybody's time. I'm, I use, I don't speak on these forums, but I just thought I might put that out there.

All right, man. Uh, have a great day.

All right. Thank you.

All right. Yep.

All right. Uh, $2 there from Dave Spirals or Dave Spirals. Dave Spirals, maybe. Says, "My mermaid has a tat on her starfish que." Oh my god. I don't even think he's using the Q word correctly there. My god. Anyways, if you're on YouTube, send a send a super chat with a with evidence for Jesus or ask a question or just to tell me that I look like a douchebag. That's fine, too. Um, I will read it out loud, I promise. and respond to it. Or you can click the link in the chat and come up here on TikTok. TikTok is how I take guests. What's going on, Andy? Andy, you there?

What's up? How you doing?

Hey, doing good. Doing good. What you got?

So, I mean, I just saw the, uh, title of it. Um, and I wanted to understand. Hold on. Give me a sec. Uh, okay.

Yeah. So, um, yeah, I want to understand how you got into that to that conclusion and, um, is this peer-reviewed also? Um, are there other.

I mean, there are books about Jesus not existing.

Okay. But in terms of, like, the, um, you said you used what kind of, uh, data?

The Bible.

The Bible?

Like Codexis, Codex Vaticanis.

Uh, how about other writings? Have you looked at those about Jesus?

What do you mean?

Other, um, scholarly writings or historical.

Scholarly writings about Jesus? Give.

I mean, uh, faith in Jesus is kind of old. So probably from early church.

That's not really an example. I'm trying to figure out what you're talking about.

So, um, what's the earliest, uh, account about Jesus that you've found in your data?

144 of Angelin or Evangelion, published by Marc.

Marian. Okay. Is this a biographic writing or fictional?

It's like a mythology, like it's written and published about 144.

Do they have, uh, third party or like, are they, do they claim that they are witnesses?

Nope. And neither do any of the other gospels. So you believe that's where Christianity, uh, kind of.

No, that's where the story of Jesus showed up. Christianity had been around since about the 1st century BCE or so.

Um, most likely a mystery cult going from the worship of this guy right here, Serapis.

But that's not Christianity. I mean, like, we, Christianity just requires that, uh, you believe in a Christ. It, nowhere in the word Christianity doesn't even imply the word you have to follow Jesus.

Oh, it, I, I mean, isn't that so? Faith itself is all about Jesus. I mean, um.

Not initially. And we don't have the story of Jesus until the middle of the second century. Okay. So, I just, I just feel like, you know, um, with the spread of the religion and, um, a lot of scholarly writings about early churches, I felt there might be some kind of, uh, legitimate claim.

No, the earliest writings we have from any kind of like early church fathers and stuff is from the second century. And even the person who gives us the name Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John for the gospels believe that Jesus lived to be 50 years old. So they don't even have the story down pat by 180. So they're still just making [ __ ] up.

Okay. So, um, it's pretty clearly a fictional story that they're just piecing together and eventually they say, "Okay, we're done piecing it together. We've got a story. We're good to go."

Who, who, who are they? I mean.

Who are they? The proto-Catholics, specifically Irenaeus, uh, Tertullian, I guess, would be involved, but Irenaeus mostly.

What could be the reason? Do you know?

Uh, Irenaeus says that the four gospels that he chose are because we have north, east, west, and south. He just chooses four. That's what he says, and they make it into the canon.

Okay. Uh, what do you, how about like, um, stories of, uh, miracles in the church and, you know, supernatural occurrences?

Uh, fake. Never been proven. Never, never verified.

All right. So, it, so you got into this conclusion by, I'm, I'm sure you did, that through study of it.

Yeah.

Where were, was there a moment where you might have doubted some of the data that you, you went or like some of the, um, the reasoning?

No, not really.

Okay. I just wanted to, you know, get more understanding about, you know, how you, you got into the, you know, this conclusion because, um, do you think this is communicated to people? You know, do you think people need to know this? Especially people.

Society is benefited if we believe as many true things as possible and stop believing as many false things as possible.

Okay. Well, all right. I just, I just wanted to, you know, pick your brain.

No problem.

Coming up. That was Andy, everybody. Andy. Uh, next up, we've got, uh, Dumbo 222 426 677-464 3211 34. Relax, relax, relax, relax. Your claim is that Jesus and Paul never existed. He's pre.

Oh, uh, somebody muted you. I was just reading off your name, dude. That's all I was doing. I don't know why you had to tell me to relax. I was just reading off your name. Maybe come in here with a normal [ __ ] name and I won't have to do all that. Uh, but you can unmute. That's perfectly fine. Go ahead and hit the little microphone button. I can't hear you if you're talking. You're going to have to click the little microphone button. Anyways, yo, I'm back. Basically, you are saying that Jesus and Paul never existed, right?

Yeah, that's what you're saying. So, there's a lot of like.

Okay. Okay. I understand. I understand.

Yeah.

Also, you spelled, you spelled Tacitus wrong, bro. It's Tacitus, not Tacticus.

Yeah.

Also, that's the point. Tacitus. When? Can you tell me when? Can you tell me when his.

Name is Tacitus. That's how you pronounce it.

Oh, I don't care, man. Get in Italian and make it because you're trying to.

Okay. No. No. Come on. Tell me how. Tell me when he wrote about Jesus. Tell me. Tell me when he wrote about Jesus.

Well, he didn't write. But Annals comes out in 116.

Okay. Is that early enough? Is that early enough for you?

When did Flavius write about Jesus?

When did Flavius Josephus write about Jesus?

He didn't.

Yes, he did. He wrote about his brother James.

And he referred to him later.

No, no, he. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Show me proof.

He wrote about his brother James who he called the brother of Jesus and he called him the Christ.

Is that not enough for you?

You think that a. You think that a practicing Jew living at the Roman Emperor's compound will call him the Christ?

Huh? Do you think that a practicing Jew like Josephus, living in the Roman emperor's compound in the '90s, when Christians are said to have been persecuted by violently by Emperor Domitian, would have written about Jesus and called him the Christ?

Well, we clearly called him the Christ.

No.

Well, unfortunately, that's not really going to make a lot of difference here because you very clearly haven't read the actual passage. And when you read the entire passage, which is 20.9.1 of Alex, sorry, Alexander, Antiquities of the Jews, it literally ends with Jesus, son of Danius, high priest. It's talking about Jesus, the son of.

Go up, go up, go up, go up, go up, go up.

Yep. This is the section you're talking about.

Whoa. Go down a bit in the middle.

This is the section you're talking about.

He was called Christ. His name was James and some others. So, he clearly called him the Christ. He said people were calling him the Christ.

No. Again, this is Jesus the son of Damnius. He becomes high priest in the early 60s.

Whoa. God. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. It clearly says that people were calling Jesus the Christ.

Okay.

At that time. Why did Christianity spread so fast?

Well, at that time, this was the early 60s. So Jesus is not that Jesus is not the Jesus of, again, the New Testament because he dies in at least or at latest 36 because that's when Pilate is dismissed. He's talking about the 60s here. So this is the wrong Jesus, man. You're barking up the wrong train.

What do you mean the wrong Jesus?

It's the wrong Jesus because he's talking. Josephus is talking about the early 60s at this point. So if this is the, if this is the Jesus from the New Testament, he should have died in 36 or earlier.

So this is 303. That's pretty.

Well, that's 30 years. Okay. Well, sure, whatever. But that's 30 years before this story. So I, it's the wrong Jesus.

Why? Because it's 30 years later.

But you said Christians were getting persecuted just a bit earlier. If Christians already exist, how is this 30 years earlier?

I said that Christians, you said Flavius was in the Roman, Flavius was in the Roman court in the '90s when he was writing about this.

Listen, listen. Josephus is his name. Flavius is a title. So, uh, as far as Josephus goes, Josephus, uh, he lived at the Roman emperor's compound in the '90s, which is when Antiquities of the Jews was written and published. All right. I said that the Christians claimed that they were being persecuted by Emperor Domitian. We actually don't have any evidence for it directly. In fact, all he did was he just persecuted the Jews, not the Christians. But nevertheless, uh, still he's talking in this passage right here, which is Antiquities of the Jews, book 20, section, chapter 9, section 1. He talks about Jesus who becomes high priest in the early 60s. He's the son of Damnius. That wouldn't be the Jesus from the New Testament. This would be 30 years later.

Why did Christianity spread so fast? Why did Christianity spread so fast?

Yeah. If Jesus, Jesus and Paul never existed, why did Christ Christianity spread so fast?

If the Roman Empire never existed, that doesn't make any sense. How if Hercules never existed, how does the cult of Hercules and Paul never existed to prove us wrong? That's what you're saying, right?

Yeah. And but you're asking a question that is really stupid. If Zeus didn't exist, why did the religion of Zeus spread so far? Why did it end up impacting spread so fast as Christianity did?

It didn't spread so fast as Christianity.

Yeah, it did. Christianity in the Roman Empire spread very, like, really, really fast.

You do realize that Zeus is just the Greek.

Even through the persecution of Jupiter.

Even through the persecution of Christians in the Roman Empire.

Okay, you're just kind of saying [ __ ] now.

People still believe you're every single apostle, every single apostle, all 12 of them except John were martyrs.

All right. Jesus Christ. All right. So, first of all, if you have any evidence whatsoever that any disciples actually existed, because we don't have any evidence that they did. They're never mentioned outside of Christianity once.

But nevertheless, you're asking if Christianity, if you, you are asking if Christianity.

If it didn't have Jesus and Paul, how to say what?

No, no, no. Keep going. Fine.

You're trying to say that.

Josephus obviously wrote about James, right? That's what you said. So, what do you mean there's no proof for them? There's no proof of any apostles.

Yeah, that's James, the brother of Jesus, the son of Damius. I just showed you this. I don't know why you're.

Okay, fine. Fine. Yeah, keep going. Keep going.

Cool. All right. And also, James, even if he was the brother of Jesus from the New Testament, that's still not a disciple, [ __ ] It's the wrong James.

Okay, fine. And then, so.

Have smart thoughts about the letters of Paul?

Well, Paul didn't exist, so it's not going to matter. But to answer your question about how the religion spread, even without the people, it's pretty obvious that religions don't have to have a real founder or anything like that or a real figure that they all worship that had to had to have existed in order for the religion to spread. Otherwise, you would have to acknowledge that Odin exists and Zeus exists and Vishnu to exist and all these different gods. They, they obviously have to exist or the religion wouldn't spread. That's a really stupid argument and you should feel stupid for even bringing it up. That being said, the reason why it spread, uh, so well, uh, was because of the fact that it was syncretic. You already had certain religions and offshoots and cults and stuff like that that that worshiped these things that went into Christianity. If people believed in Dionysus, someone who changed water into wine at parties, then believing in Jesus doing the same thing is not going to be too terribly hard to do. Not to mention, uh, once it becomes the official religion of the entire Roman Empire in 380, it's lights out and everybody was in the Roman Empire was forced to become Christian. This happens with Theodosius II. And the only reason why it was really spreading that far is because in 312 with the Edict of Milan from Constantine, it becomes legal to proselytize.

Yeah. Okay.

So, there's your answer.

You just mentioned Constantine. Do you know the story of Constantine? And why.

Give a [ __ ] It's in the 4th century. We're talking about Jesus and Paul.

Okay, fine. So, we're talking about Jesus and Paul.

Have you heard of the Shroud of Turin?

Yep.

And what do you know about the Shroud of Turin?

I know that it's from the 1300s and this is how it's supposed to look if it was actually real, but it looks like this because it's artwork.

Okay, fine. You could say it's artwork, but there's proof that like the Shroud of Turin actually existed.

It's artwork. I don't.

Scientists have looked into it and spoiled the face into it that actually looks like Jesus.

No.

Well, show me evidence that they haven't done. You're just saying no, no, no. This right here is a face. The way that the shroud would look if it actually got an imprint of this face because the the sheet is pulled skin tight, which means that it was able to get like the eyelids and [ __ ] like that. And once you lay the sheet flat, it would look like this with the sides of the face. That's why the mask of Agamemnon.

Scientist. Dude, shut up. Listen, it doesn't make any difference because the shroud, the shroud of Turin should look like this. This is the actual mask of Agamemnon. This is the shroud itself highlighted on the right. It should not look like that. It would look more like this because a 3D object like a body would not look like this because this is artwork. It would not be able to get all those different things including the eyelids, the hands under the hands, the individual fingers, they would look like mittens. That's how that works. If you were to paint your face black and then get a white sheet and wrap it so tight that you're able to get the eyelids and then lay that sheet flat, you'd get the side of the face. That's how that works. It is stupid. I don't care when it dates to. It's still fake. That being said, do you have any other evidence for Jesus or Paul?

Well, I wanted to say about Paul's letters.

Okay.

Basically, Paul's letters. Yeah. So, historians like all historians agree that Paul wrote about like at least seven letters, you know, like Romans and Galatians, right? Around in the 50s and they're one of the best.

Evidence that they were written in the 50s?

Well, because they were like, firstly, the early church fathers.

Where's the evidence they were written in the 50s?

Well, the early church fathers said they were written in the 50s.

Who says they were written? And then so on and then so on. Who says they were written in the 50s? They were spread around. We have proof that like around that time Christianity was.

If I ask for evidence of something because you've said something, well then please provide the evidence for it. Back up what you're saying. If you don't have any evidence to support it, then don't say it.

Well, I do because.

Okay, so what's the evidence? Name me one person who said.

In the Eastern Mediterranean. When Christianity spread to the Eastern Mediterranean, people were using those letters to establish the religion.

Prove it. At first.

Prove it.

Do you mean prove it?

Prove it.

It's, it happened so long ago. How am I supposed to take something from then?

Well, it sounds like you don't have any evidence and you're just kind of reaching up into the chocolate starfish.

Why exist right now? Why do, for example, we have the Great Isaiah Scroll that matches the book of Isaiah to us? So, so like it's, it's very, very similar. It matches it almost one to one. And that's 400 years before the existence of Jesus. Who did you hear? Why is it in my Bible now?

Did you hear that from Wes Hoff?

Who?

Did you hear that from Wes Hoff? Because that's not a true claim. He actually had to actually like retract or redact, I guess, to go back on what he said. Uh, because that's not actually a true claim. Not even close. So the fact that you said that shows that you're actually pretty stupid and not very knowledgeable on this. But.

14, bro. I'm trying to study theology. It's interesting. You're only what?

114, bro.

What?

114. I'm trying to study theology.

Well, you shouldn't be up here.

You're very incredibly stupid on this. Read a [ __ ] book, dude.

All right, that made it said we're moving on. I had no idea that he was 14. I thought he was like just a young guy.

All right. Uh, Fit Central, what you got?

Hello?

Fit Central, what you got, man? Hey, I'mma actually start with the Jesus top.

As opposed to, I guess, Paul. Are you there? Fit Central. If you're off the app, I can't hear you. You can hear me, but I can't hear you.

Hello. Hey.

Yeah, I don't think Jesus really existed, right?

Yeah. Even the natural Jesus and Paul as presumably the New Testament, as well as the Book of Mormon and the Quran, did not exist.

Dude, every time you hop off the app, I can't hear you.

I wasn't saying anything.

Okay. Well, what you got?

Well, I got sources and evidence, biblical and non-biblical from.

What'd you end up with?

What'd you end up? Know who Michael Grant is?

Uh, it doesn't sound like somebody 2000 years ago. Give me the evidence of Jesus 2000 years ago.

I was just giving scriptures.

Okay. Well, Michael Grant.

So, what's your evidence for Jesus 200 years?

Nope. He didn't. You're right. He didn't.

Awesome. Well, I'm looking about Jesus 2000 years ago. I don't give a [ __ ] about Jesus today.

I'm sorry. I'm driving. All right, man. At least these people are being honest as to why we got to kick them. All right. Uh, Smooth Ocean, what you got?

Hey, how's it going, man? My name is Arthur. How are you doing?

All right. Yeah, doing good. Doing good. We got Arthur on the line. What you got, man?

Yeah, man. Uh, so just want to clarify, is the topic you're trying to Jesus never existed? Are you claiming he never existed as a person or at all or.

How do you define, uh, even the natural Jesus and Paul as presented by the New Testament did not exist.

All right. And I know I think I, I was able to catch a few, I think a few of your screen shares there. I think there were some historians who point to, I think you were talking about Tacitus who mentioned that Jesus Christ existed, but what was your claim there? Why did he not exist? If someone, what, what was his purpose be to, I guess, claim that he didn't exist?

He didn't.

What stake did he have?

Yeah, he didn't make the claim. It's something that's interpolated into the text later on. It's pretty obvious because, uh, Christ is not a name, it's a title. And apparently that's the word that was used there, which wouldn't have been on any kind of arrest record or crucifixion record. That doesn't make, make a lot of sense. Pilot doesn't even put Christ above the above his head on the cross. Uh, and then it calls Pontius Pilate a procurer when actually he wasn't a procurer. And by the way, somebody pointed out that that's a procurator. Procurator. That sounds awful, but I'm going to call him procurer because that sounds terrible. So procurer, he's not a procurer. He's a prefect.

Okay, got you. So titles there. Now, as far as just, I guess, play with me here for just a sec, or does anybody question if Pontius existed?

Based on that inconsistency in the title?

Uh, no. The reason why we know that he actually existed was because of the fact that there's two contemporaries who talk about him, as well as a Pilate stone which dates to the time of Emperor Tiberius, who he reigned under or served under, and it actually lists him as a prefect. So we don't say, "Oh, hey, because, uh, Tacitus got it wrong, he didn't exist." Uh, no, we're able to back it up through other stuff, but we can't do that for Jesus. We can't back it up with anything that is actually from the time or anything like that. No contemporaries of him talk about him. Uh, and the only thing that we have is things that are filled with anachronisms, which don't line up with time and make the stories historically impossible.

Yeah. Because the best of, best of what we would have, right, is those writings, those later writings, those, what we just mentioned, I guess, those historians, those Roman historians, right? Of course, we don't have photographic evidence. We just have to reference that. Then we're also looking at, of course, the source for us being the Bible. That's kind of going to be the end all be all when it comes to Jesus, where he originated from, where he started, began.

I mean, kind of the first gospel is the first time that we get a story of Jesus.

Or a mention of Jesus. Yeah.

Roughly.

Right? And many, and I would believe this, especially if you're Christian, would believe that when you look at the Old Testament as well, there are references to Jesus as well.

Not at all. Uh, but anyways, as far as Jesus goes, what kind of evidence do you have for him?

Well, I was speaking to that.

Oh, well, the Old Testament's not going to make any sense. Uh, even if the, even if every verse in the Old Testament says there's going to be a man named Jesus who's going to be born in Bethlehem, raised in Nazareth, he's going to flip over a bunch of tables and stuff like that in Jerusalem and at the temple, uh, then he's going to get crucified by Pontius Pilate and resurrect three days later and all that kind of [ __ ]. Even if, uh, even if every verse of the Old Testament said that, that still doesn't prove that Jesus existed. That would just be a prophecy and that would make it very easy for the New Testament to come around and just write that story based off of a book that had already existed for hundreds of years. That wouldn't make a lot of sense, now would it? On top of that, um, we do not figure out whether or not someone existed based on someone saying he will exist. We figure out whether or not they existed based on people saying that he exists or he did exist. That's how that works. Uh, and a prophecy is not evidence that the prophecy is fulfilled. You'd have to show me that the evidence, the evidence that it's fulfilled before I start accepting that it's a prophecy that like is of any use.

Right? That's exclusive to Old Testament. But New Testament.

Everyone talked about that he existed.

Cool. Well, where in the, where in the New Testament do we have anybody who says that they were even a contemporary of him?

What do you mean?

No contemporaries of him write about him. And these are all just stories that show up over a hundred years later. And the stories of Jesus specifically are filled with anachronisms which make the story historically impossible because.

Well, disciples wrote about him. They would be his contemporaries.

No. Where's the evidence that any disciples wrote about him?

Well, we have the Gospels.

Okay. Name one that's written by a disciple.

Luke.

Uh, Luke is not a disciple. Luke is a, according to Christian tradition, he is a doctor who travels around with Paul, who is also not a disciple. Uh, John. Where in John does it say it's written by John? Where in what do you, what do you, sorry, what was the question?

Where in John does it say it's written by John? Where in the Gospel of John does it say it's written by John? Where does it say that at all?

What is your question? I don't understand it. Sorry.

Where does it say that John's the author? Where does it say that John's the author?

Yeah, you made a claim that John wrote it. Where does it say John wrote it? In fact, in Acts 4:13, it says that John's illiterate. So you think he wrote a giant religious treatise in a language he didn't even [ __ ] speak when he's illiterate?

Well, John can be illiterate, but.

Well, John can be illiterate, but John can have the power of God to be able to write out and speak out what he.

So, you're appealing to magic. You're appealing to magic for his historical existence?

No, because magic would.

I don't know what to tell you, man. Do you have any evidence that John wrote John?

Well, no. Hold on. Let me finish.

Do you have any evidence that John wrote John? I'm not going to let you just keep appealing to magic. And obviously that is magic because it's super.

Well, you brought it up. I didn't bring up magic because you said that he could use the Holy Spirit. Yeah. Well, the Holy Spirit's magic. But do you have any evidence that John wrote John?

Give me any verse. Give me literally any verse that says that John wrote John.

Any verse. Any verse at all. You know, the word Bible isn't even in the word Bible. But we also don't give two shits, man. I didn't say that the Bible wrote the Bible. The Gospel of John does it say it's written by John.

You're claiming.

But you're claiming.

I will open it up to the entire New Testament. Where in anywhere in the New Testament does it say that the Gospel of John was written by John?

Entire New Testament. You have all 27 books to work with.

Where does it say that? Where does it say it? Yeah, sounds like you were speaking out of your ass. Do you have anything else? This is also probably indicative of, uh, why you, uh, said that Luke was a disciple. You're not even sure as to who was a disciple and who wasn't. I don't think you've heard the book.

Well, no. I mean, I thought I was treating you with respect. I'm not.

You named Luke as a disciple and he's not even a traveling companion of a disciple.

But I wasn't disrespecting you by the way you just.

So, I'm asking you, where is your evidence? You're disrespecting the live because the live is about evidence. We talk evidence here. All right. Right. That's what we talked about. And I am asking you for evidence that John wrote John and you can't do it. And you keep flim-flamming around and you're not actually answering any questions or admitting that you don't have any evidence.

I'm getting to your questions. I'm getting to your question.

So go ahead, give me the verse that says that John wrote John. I will give you all 27 books of the New Testament to look for it.

No, John didn't in his book.

He did not write John. Correct.

It's okay to admit that because he didn't write it. But that's what you believe or.

Does the author even say I'm a disciple?

You cut out. My timer went off. Sorry. Go ahead.

Does the, does the author even say I'm a disciple?

You know the first time the book gets quoted or mentioned or the first time it even gets its name? As Jake there in the TikTok chat says, uh, it doesn't even get its name until 180 with Irenaeus. Did you know that?

No, I didn't know that. Tell me more.

Yeah, so Irenaeus is the first person to give us the names Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John from the Gospels. And that's in 180 to 185. The first time that John even gets mentioned is in like maybe the 160s. So, uh, since we don't have any mention of the gospel itself until the 160s, the name doesn't appear until the 180s. And nowhere in anywhere in the New Testament does it say that John wrote the Gospel of John. In fact, Acts says that he's [ __ ] illiterate to begin with. I don't know what to tell you. Sounds like you can't really use the argument that the disciples wrote about him. So where are these, where are these contemporaries that these elusive contemporaries that you're talking about?

What would be the best evidence for you?

A contemporaries.

We were already contemporary.

Yep. We were already on that.

So the people that Jesus came across in his journey like.

Sweet people who were alive at the same time as him. Well.

Like whenever he met like Levi, for instance.

Cool. Where does Levi? Well, Levi, if you remember, became Matthew.

You think that Matthew and Levi are names that like are linear? Like Levi becomes Matthew?

Yeah, it's in the text.

Where does it say that Levi becomes Matthew?

It's in the text. Um, I'd have to look it up.

It is.

It's not.

You're confusing that with Simon and Peter.

No, no, no, no, no, no. Levi was.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, Matthew is the name that Matthew is called, that particular disciple is called in Matthew. In all the other gospels, it's Levi. You're just kind of saying that Levi becomes Matthew. That wouldn't make a lot of [ __ ] sense. Why would you have two Hebrew names? Are you digging it up there for us? I can't hear you when you're off the app, so I don't know if you're talking or not, but it sounds like you might be digging it up trying to find out. Oh my god, where did that where did that verse go?

Did you find it? You find the verse that said that Levi became Matthew?

No, no, no. I was saying anytime somebody has an interaction with Jesus, what we find in scripture is he ends up, they end up getting a new identity. Like in.

No, that's not even the case at all. Uh, that being said, where does Levi become Matthew?

Where does Levi become Matthew? You said that there was a verse in there that says that he did.

So where I told you exactly what was the case in Matthew, that same character is called Matthew, but in all the other gospels, his name is Levi. He doesn't become Matthew. It's just a different named gospel or it's a different named disciple in a different gospel. That's all that it is. He doesn't become anything.

And then Saul with Paul.

What about him?

Oh, I was just saying that was another example that I had.

Sweet. Yeah. So, you have two examples at best. In fact, there's there's two people named James that go around with with Jesus, and apparently one of them can't get a name change, even though they have the same [ __ ] name. There's two people named Judas.

That's really weird.

So, but yeah, you have two examples. You have Paul and you've got Peter.

In no other examples does somebody else get a name change.

Yeah. I mean, there are 13 different disciples in the New Testament. Uh, and there's Paul. So 14 total people, uh, that would maybe kind of fit this bill of people who met Jesus and all that kind of [ __ ]. And only two of the 14, so one out of every seven, get a name change, but you said that everybody did. You also said that there was a verse that said that Levi became. Congratulations. You're stupid for two reasons.

Dude, why do you have to go to insulting? I'm not insulting you at all.

Insult me. Insult me on something that I have been wrong on. And so far, you have been wrong on literally everything that has come out of your mouth.

Dude, I'm a Christian. And I can say I don't have any reason to. I don't have.

Kind of why you get things wrong. It's, it's also the evidence as to why you don't know anything about the Bible is because you're a Christian. That means you haven't read it.

No, I mean, it means that I'm growing and learning in my walk every day and I have nothing to.

Yeah. And that's why you're coming up here with a full chest of confidence because you're actually learning and you don't know anything about it.

No, I didn't come here with a full chest of confidence.

First Peter 3:15. 1 Peter 3:15 or sorry, 1 Simon 3:15, uh, says, "You should always be prepared to give a defense of why you believe what you believe when questioned or demanded of you and do so respectfully." I, I like the fact you're doing it respectfully, but you are an awful representative for Jesus.

I wouldn't say that. I have plenty of life experience.

Because you're trying to make a whole bunch of claims about what Jesus did. You're trying to say that he changed people's names and only one out of every seven people that had even come into contact with, uh, even if we whittle it down to just, uh, the disciples and Paul, only one out of every seven people get a name change.

Yeah. But the claim was if he does change people's names and he doesn't do it all the time.

Does he change people's names? I asked, did Levi become Matthew, and you said yes. And you said there was a verse and you couldn't find it.

The verse, right? But I'm saying it's the same. So anyways, that being said, uh, where does Matthew say that he's writing a gospel? Where in Matthew does it say it's written by Matthew or even a disciple?

Or even a contemporary or even somebody from the first century? Where does it say that?

Yeah. We didn't have the openers to tell us who was writing who.

Yeah. It's almost like whenever you say, "Oh, hey, this was written by disciples." Again, you're speaking out of your ass.

No, because that's again, that's the.

When do you think that the, the book of Matthew was named Matthew? I'll give you a hint. It's the same time as John from the same person. When do you think the Gospel of Matthew was called Matthew?

Is there, where in the verse where in the Bible does it say that? Cuz that would be my best source.

Well, unfortunately, it's not in the Bible because it never says it's written by Matthew. This is just a claim in 180. This is the first time it's called Matthew. It's in 180. Oh, man. This is bad. You haven't read the Bible. haven't read any church history, but you came up here as if you were like.

I wasn't able to ask representative your questions.

Well, yeah, it's pretty obvious that you haven't read the Bible. Not just because of my questions, but simply because of what you've made as statements. That's the problem. It's not just the fact that you can't answer questions. It's also the fact that you make statements about the Bible that just aren't true. It's not in there.

So, because I don't know enough about a topic, that.

Shouldn't? You don't know anything about the topic? That's the problem. Well, you haven't asked me everything about the topic. You would have to—

Literally, everything so far has been just an absolute failure.

Well, "so far" doesn't wouldn't cut it. I'm saying you would have to—

Well, unfortunately, it says you should always be prepared to give a defense of why you believe what you believe and do so respectfully. That's what it says in 1 Peter 3:15.

Answer a lot of things. Yeah, I would be prepared to answer many other things, but how many people, how many disciples, uh, how many disciples in the New Testament do we have the martyrdom story for? My, I don't know the quantity, but I know Stephen for sure was one of—

Stephen is not a disciple.

But Stephen was a martyr. I'm saying—

Sweet. How many disciples do we have the martyrdom story for?

As far as I know, if not, I want to say all of them.

No.

But I'd be wrong to assume that.

Yes, very wrong.

I'm, I'm familiar with many of them that were had to be hung up upside down, I think.

That's just Peter. Uh, so congratulations, not many of—

That's just one. And also, that's not in the Bible. Man, it really sounds like you don't know anything about it.

I mean, I'm referring to, by the way, is called the Acts of Peter. It's a book that comes out in the late 2nd, early 3rd century. It also has a talking dog. Did you know that? It's got a talking dog. Uh, Peter also takes a dead fish from the market and throws it in a pond, and it swims around. It's like a tuna, and it swims around for like a few hours or so. Uh, and then also, also, there's a mage battle.

Yeah. Sweet. So in Acts of Acts of Peter, which is what you're referring to, which is not part of the Bible, that's where it says that Peter was hung upside down.

So, yeah, doesn't say that in the Bible.

Doesn't come from the Bible. So again, I'm going to ask you, um, have you even read the Bible?

I have.

Okay. So, how were you so sure that there's all these different disciples' deaths mentioned in the Bible?

Say that again.

How are you so sure that all the disciples' deaths were mentioned in the Bible?

How am I so sure that they're all mentioned in the Bible? Well—

Again, we have the text and we have—

Well, nowhere in the text of the Bible does it say anything more than just two disciples.

There were 13 disciples, and only two of their deaths are recorded in the Bible.

Right. That's correct. Yep.

Not everything was. And also, not everything was recorded. And also tells us—

Hold on one second.

Do you know which ones?

Can I finish with a with a thought?

Which ones?

It scripture also tells us that—

Which ones?

That not everything that Jesus did or not everything that—

And that's written by somebody who what? Who who says this? Who says this? Who wrote that?

I'd have to go back and look. I don't have the reference verse.

Yeah. Uh, it's because it's found in the Gospel of John. And good, good thinking, not actually giving us a name, because we don't know who wrote John. In fact, our best guess is Irenaeus or Polycarp, they're in the second century. And if we're refuting, back to the topic, if we're refuting the existence of Jesus, I truly believe that it wouldn't have spread and we wouldn't have it being—

How does the story of Zeus spread if he's not real? Religion. How does the story of Zeus spread if it's not real?

I, I've never heard of the church of Zeus. I've heard the church of Jesus Christ.

If you've heard of anything regarding Zeus, you've heard of the stories of Zeus.

That's how it works. Did people use people?

Except I don't see people today on Sundays go to go worship.

Do you live in ancient Greece?

I don't live in ancient Greece.

All right. Have you ever heard of the Parthenon?

Have you ever heard of the Parthenon?

Yes, I have heard.

Okay, that's a temple of Zeus. That's how that [ __ ] works, dude. It's not that hard. All right, so that being said, that being said, listen, that being said, being spread all over, mean that Zeus existed as well because there's a temple of him.

The church of Zeus has not grown to the level of Jesus. And that's a true fact.

Sweet. Yeah, that's because Jesus has spread at the end of a sword and the barrel of a gun. But that being said, when it comes to—

And if it was mythology, it would have been cut off a long time ago.

That's not accurate at all.

It would have been. How long do you— How long do you think that mythology can last?

How long do you think that mythology can last?

Not, not because it's not a mythology.

How long? How long can a mythology—

It's not a mythology. It would have been—

How long can a mythology last?

It's not.

Arthur, answer the [ __ ] question. How long can a mythology last? In your opinion, how long can a mythology last? You said it would have been cut off a long time ago if it was a mythology. So, how long ago? How long ago was that?

Exactly.

How long ago would that be, Arthur?

Jesus would have been long ago that if it were not true.

Okay, sweet. So, I'm going to ask you this yet again. If you can't answer the question, we're going to go ahead and move on to somebody with an IQ over room temperature. All right. Because it's shown to me very clearly, uh, that you don't know [ __ ] about your Bible or your religion or really just history in general. But what we're going to do is we're gonna ask this question and then I'm going to send you an invite to unmute. I want you to click the unmute button and then I want you to answer the question directly. At what point in your opinion would a mythology be cut off? How long would a mythology last? If it's mythology, if it's a mythology, how long would it have lasted?

I can't answer the question because it's not a mythology.

I, I'm, I'm not even asking about Christianity. How long do you think? How long do you think? How long do you think that Zeus lasted?

How long do you think the worship of Zeus lasted?

How long?

Not very long.

I don't see anybody worshiping Zeus.

Not very long. You don't, you don't think it lasted 2,000 years?

Not very long. I don't think—

You don't think it lasted 2,000 years?

I can't.

You don't think it lasted 2,000 years, Arthur? No. Arthur. Arthur. Arthur. You're saying the evidence you said, and I quote, "it was a mythology, it would have been cut off a long time ago." Unfortunately, something you think is a mythology, which is Zeus, lasted even longer than Jesus has lasted so far. Because if Jesus was real, then it would be about 2,000 years old. Correct. Correct.

What did you say?

Correct.

What did you say?

I said if Jesus was real, then that story of Jesus would have lasted 2,000 years. Correct.

Jesus is real and it's last.

Okay. So, that would have to last 2,000 years. Correct.

Jesus is real and it's lasted 2,000 years.

Yes or no? Would it have to have lasted 2,000 years from now? Like it's lasted 2,000 years so far. Is that correct?

Yes, of course.

Okay. So, if I show— Listen.

Yep.

So, if I show that the worship of Zeus lasted longer than 2,000 years, what are you going to do?

What am I going to do? I'm going to, I'm going to listen to you. That's all I'm going to do. So, what do you mean?

The way that the way that we're able to tell the Zeus was worshiped for roughly 2,000 to 2,500 years. So if it was a mythology, it would have not lasted that long. It's actually the worship of Zeus lasted longer than the worship of Jesus. Does that make— Does that make Zeus real?

So far.

We'd have to go back real to see if will outlive Zeus.

Arthur, does that make Zeus real? Yes or no?

Sorry, I didn't know. What does that make Zeus real? Yes or no, Arthur?

For that time, I'm guessing it was—

Is real. Is Zeus is real according to you?

Zeus real according to them.

I didn't ask that. I didn't ask that.

It, it lasted.

According to your logic, Zeus would be real. Correct.

Yeah, it was real to them.

All right. Nope. I didn't say real to them. You said you said that if Jesus was mythology, it wouldn't have lasted as long as it did and it lasted 2,000 years. So it would have got cut off, as you said, and I quote, "a long time ago." All right. So Zeus lasted longer. So Zeus must be even more real than Jesus.

So far. I mean, come on.

Why is it? Why is it? Why is it that—

Arthur? Am I correct here? Am I using your logic against you?

And it's making you feel uncomfortable because you now see how stupid you are and how stupid that like—

You shouldn't make me feel uncomfortable, my friend. I'm learning.

Sweet. So, please show us all that you have learned that Zeus is more real than Jesus.

Not currently. I would say it.

No, not current. Not currently because—

So, what we're going to do, you see that other person there on the panel? I'm going to move to them. If you can't answer this question—

The worship of Zeus or the worship of Jesus, which has lasted longer?

Jesus.

All right.

Today. Look at it. See you. All right. Uh, Matter Gang, how's it going?

Hey, good. How are you?

What's going on, Matter Gang?

Uh, not a whole lot. You can hear me?

Yeah.

Okay. Um, I actually, uh, I have a bit of an antithetical question here. Um, so I'd like to hear your opinion on how uh prehistory and as well as like other histories leading up to the writing of the Judeo-Christian texts uh have so many similarities in the story of Jesus. Um, and so—

What has the similarities?

Figures in prehistory as well as like just history before Jesus. So like uh Osiris and um like why are they so similar to Jesus?

Yes.

Because that's just what you would think of when you think of gods. It's, it's, it's similar to the question of, sorry, got to make sure the you're still good. Okay. Um, it's similar to the question of um, like why is Mr. Incredible so similar to Superman? People just kind of come of it because it's part of, part of what you think of when you think of that superhero trope or genre. And that's that, that, that's your full answer.

Yeah. It's just influenced because that's that's what you would think of. When you come up with a superhero, you come up with things that are similar to what we all think of as superheroes. When you think of a mythological god or a god-man or a demigod, you're going to give it attributes that you've come to uh expect from a demigod or a god-man or a god.

Fair enough. And so the minutiae of them were, you know, always born from virgin and always in, and again, I mean, again—

That gets into like the zeitgeisty kind of [ __ ] where they just kind of pulled some [ __ ] out of their ass sometimes. But okay.

Not, not wrong. And again, that's why I preface this by saying it's an antithetical question. Uh, so—

Yeah, I mean, I, I stop short in saying like all the different parallels. Like, I'll, I'll mention some parallels every once in a while, but like, I don't want, I don't want people to think that I like am agreeing with Zeitgeist or something like that where it's like, "Oh, hey, Jesus is just Mithras. Jesus is just Osiris. Jesus is just Horus. Jesus is just like all this." It's like, no, it's taking from these stories because that was what was familiar to people from that area in that time. I mean, it's, it's how it works.

And I, and I, of course, I did not mean to imply that for any of your, you know, viewers or anything like that, like that.

No, no, no. It's just—

I, I just wanted to nip it in the bud before anybody who just stopped by was like, "Oh, this guy's just like Zeitgeist or something." No, no.

100%. I get you. So, um, related but off-topic. How do you feel about the movie Dogma?

Actually haven't seen it. Uh—

Yeah. So, here's the deal. And this is going to lose me viewers and all kinds of people. I'm not a big fan of Kevin Smith. Like, I don't know. He, he strikes me as, uh, he's up there with me for me with like Seth Rogen. Like, I can see how he's influential, but I, I just can't get into him.

That's fair. I will say, at least for all of the Kevin Smith projects, he is probably the least involved in that. At least as like as a character.

Right? Right. Because it's more—

I would re, I would recommend at least in the vein that you're mining. I would at least check it out.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I should, I actually saw a clip of it not long ago on on like a reel or something and I was like, that seems kind of funny or kind of interesting.

The basic premise is that the main character is a descendant of Jesus.

That sounds interesting.

Yeah. You know, yeah, like, you know, it's, you know, that and a whole other pilgrimage and like lots of other insanity into, of course, because it is still a Kevin Smith film, so there's lots of other stuff. But that is the basic premise is that, you know, yes, Jesus was a person and that he had siblings and stuff like, and so that's what leads to the movie. So I mean, again, just for the vein that you're mining here, I would recommend at least checking it out just so at least you have—

I'll check it out. I'll check it out. But man, ah, yeah, I, I, I see what's, what do they call them? Jay and Silent Bob or I don't know the real [ __ ] names. It's Kevin Smith and—

Yeah.

But I see those two as basically just like, like proto Seth Rogen and J James Franco. Like, and I'm just like, I don't know. I just can't.

I mean, in a way, kind of sort of, but also, I mean, um, for one, they are background characters.

In this movie. Yeah, they're—

Background. Like they're, yeah, they're, they're 100% background characters.

Uh, and for two, like I would say that fits their role in every other movie they're in. This movie they play a specific other kind of foil and I won't say too much more than that. Like—

I, I mean, I'll, I'll, I'll watch it. I'll watch it. I'll watch it. There's, it's actually a, there's a list of movies that I need to watch on the Discord and stuff like that. We need to have like a watch party kind of thing. So I, I'll check it out though. I will. I will.

Well, if you do for Dogma, I would definitely check it out. Yeah, we got, we've got, uh, Dogma that we need to watch. Uh, we've got Da Vinci Code that I never saw because it, it was just, it, it was foren. And then there's also what's that? Don Verdine or whatever.

I haven't heard of—

All three of those movies start with D. Triple D. There we go. Dogma, Da Vinci Code, Don Verdine. Need, need to watch those. The only thing I'll say about the Da Vinci Code is I feel like, um, I feel like South Park kind of summed it up pretty succinctly, uh, in their episode about, you know, the sacred Catholic doctrine and everything, like, you know, there's not really that much mystery to it. A lot of guys, you know, wrote this stuff a long time ago based on what someone else wrote or what they heard that someone else heard that someone else wrote. Uh, I, I guess to bring this full circle, I am still like, I'm a full believer in Jesus and everything, and I believe in God and, you know, I am a Christian. And at the same time, I, because I still, I like what it teaches and I like and I like watching a movie at, at times, there's a certain suspension of disbelief where I understand that some of these things may not exactly be logical or certain, but I understand that they make my life better by practicing these things. And so I choose to do them and I choose to believe in them so that I make my life better. And—

So it sounds like you already know what to do though. You already know like what's good and what's bad. So why are you needing it? Why are you needing the fake story to to keep reminding you that good is good and bad is bad? Like you already have it, like you got it. Like even if you got it from the book, cool, you got it from the book. Move on.

Because like anything else, uh, okay, let me put it this way. Uh, you know, a bit of, uh, sugar makes the medicine go down better.

I mean, I guess, but also, if you have diabetes, maybe don't do that. Like, it, it's not going to work for everybody. Talking, you're talking about, you know, an exception to the rule. Of course, there's always an exception to the rule and of course there's always what works better for one person doesn't work for the other person and things like that.

Are you admitting that you need somehow some book that doesn't have any historical basis and you know it doesn't have really any historical basis and it makes it actually has some bad advice too. You need that book to somehow remind you that good is good and bad is bad?

No, I'm not. I am admitting that I choose to use the book and especially the good parts, not essentially the bad parts as a backbone for something as more of, um, more akin to a lighthouse. Something that will remind me of where my true north is. Something—

It's got bad stuff. You just admitted it.

Yeah. Well, every good thing, every, because every good thing has some bad. You have to be able to, as a rational person—

We don't put it as a lighthouse and say this is what I'm gonna keep working towards. That's my true north.

Yeah. I mean, look, I'm a big fan of Bernie Sanders. Do I agree with everything that he says? No. But like, hey, I don't worship the guy. Like, I'm not going to be putting a Bernie Sanders flag behind my vehicle. Like, that's not going to happen. But nevertheless, like some people do that and that's really weird. Like, I, I just feel like if you are smart enough to know that there's good and there's bad in something, then take the good, forget the bad, and move on. Like, just why are you lugging around this like luggage filled with concrete when you could have just let this go at the last terminal and got on your plane in time? It, it just go, man. Fly away. Truth be told, at least the way that I practice the religion, I'm not, I don't, I don't go to church. I don't worry myself with the negatives of it. I only focus on on the positives of it. So, yes, I am essentially ignoring—

Like the hay in the needle stack. Like, Jesus is [ __ ] racist. Like, why do you want why would you want that? Why would you want that guy to be your true north?

I'm, I'm curious for you. Uh, like, I, I would like you to expand on the Jesus is racist.

Yeah. He calls a woman a dog because she's the wrong ethnicity. Like, why would why would you want that guy to be your lighthouse? Well, that's again—

Like why would—

And that, that, that is again speaking to something that is speaking to a part of the religion that I don't agree with and that I don't practice. And also, it's not even—

Religion didn't tell you to call a woman a dog.

Jesus just kind of does it.

He doesn't say, "Oh, hey, by the way, you should also do this." He's just a terrible example. And so if you believe that the religion is supposed to have you be like Jesus, then yeah, the religion's bad. But Jesus himself is bad. Like, it doesn't matter if the lighthouse says, "Oh, hey, you, you should come this direction or or I mean, obviously true north and lighthouse are two terribly different things because true north is like the direction you're supposed to go, I guess, and usually the way people use it. And also a lighthouse is supposed to tell you which way to—

Analogies fall apart, of course. But nevertheless, nevertheless, it's not that it's not that this like racist part is like, oh, hey, like, you should be racist. It's like, hey, if you are making this racist the thing that you want to be, that's the problem. Like, literally what you do with the racist is on you. Jesus doesn't even say be racist. He just is racist.

And I suppose if you make him the thing that you're supposed to go towards, that's on you entirely. You shouldn't do that. You should know better.

That's fair. And like I said, I, uh, I do not aspire or do not agree with parts of the religion and parts of parts of really what it, what it comes down to is parts of this text that were written thousands of years ago by people that we know most likely were not anywhere involved with the actual events that transpired. But you already know good from bad, then that you're admitting that you already have an idea as to how to navigate and find true north regardless. Why are you? You already know true north. It just, it's inherent. You don't even need the [ __ ] compass. What are you doing? You already have it, man. It's nice to have a reminder for one, I guess. And for two, it's nice.

Your reminder is this right now. You are doing fine. I don't know your name. Your name is Matter Gang or something like that. Matter Gang,

You're cool, man. You're good. This is your reminder that you're fine.

You are okay. You've got a good head on your shoulders. Just go. Stop turning around. Stop rubbernecking and looking the other direction at racist pieces of [ __ ]. No, you've got it. Just keep going. You're good. You're fine. This is your reminder. You don't, you don't, you don't need a book written by a bunch of racist 18 to 1900 years ago. You don't need that. You don't need that. You're good, man. I mean, and the reason the reason why the reason why I argue so hard against like the idea that you have this book, because like if if you're just needing it just to kind of wake you up in the morning or keep you motivated or something like that, I mean, I, I get how that concept is in many people's minds is fine. It's benign. But the issue is the fact that every time you hold on to that, every time that you potentially defend it, every time that you, uh, say anything about how you are related in any way, shape, or form to any kind of belief from this religion who you're trying to separate from, it just kind of it adds to whether or not, uh, uh, it adds to the list of reasons that people have to join the religion. You might, for instance, there's people who I talk to who are just like, "Oh, hey, you know, I, I, I go to church every once in a while. I don't really do anything." Or like, I'll go to church like on like holidays or something. Yeah. And every time you walk in that church, someone else who walks in sees all those people and you're one of them. Now, you're just one person, but you add to the immense amount of people in that church that makes that person feel like this church is correct. Their beliefs, those books in the back of those pews, those are filled with truth. You do not exist in a vacuum. What you believe, what you read, what you think, how you feel about certain things, it will come out in some way absolutely at some point in time and affect the world around you. And all I'm saying is if you already know inside you without having to have that kind of, uh, reminder necessarily. If you already know good or good or bad, good and evil outside of it, you're good. You're fine. You're okay. Lose the other stuff that's just going to be a stumbling block for other people. Just lose it. You're good. It's fair. Let me ask you this. Have, um, have you ever heard of a book called How to Win Friends and Influence People?

I've heard of it. I have not read it. Uh, somebody suggested it to me a long time ago. I think my parents suggested it to me, I can't remember, but I, I've heard of it.

Would highly recommend it and it is a book that I read once a year. There are some things that are just so intrinsically true that no matter how well you know them, you still need a reminder. That is what I equate the Bible to at this point. I think you could pretty easily find a reminder of the fact that you're doing a good job in the people who you live around, the people who you're friends with, the people who you connect to, your community. I think I think there are much better ways, much less racist, far less racist ways of finding true north and reminding you where true north lies. It could be a song. It can be a person who you know. It could be your community. It could be a Discord. It could be a Facebook Messenger chat. It could be hanging out with a friend every once in a while. It could be a different book, but just, ah, the book that says, "Hey, this Canaanite woman's a dog because I came for the lost sheep of Israel." Yeah, I don't know about that one. You certainly have to be intelligent enough to, you know, see the forest for the trees. Like, you know, you have to be able to actually sort through and pick for yourself like what is good, what is bad, what is outdated, what is not.

That means it's intrinsic. Part of what—

Of what people lose nowadays in religion things is sticking to some of those things where it's like, okay, this is just ridiculous in modern times. Like, that doesn't make any sense.

Well, as the years go by, every decade, every generation—

We find more and more about the Bible that is messed up. Straight up. 50 years ago, while people may have said, uh, like, let's say, let's say 30, 40 years ago. Uh, or no, let's go 50, 50 years ago. There may have been people who, uh, had a problem with the whole Canaanite thing, but I can just about guarantee you 50 years ago, there were a lot more people going around, uh, talking about how like all the, uh, the more, um, anti-LGBT, uh, information that's in the Bible and all these statements and stuff like that, how that was perfectly fine. And now we're starting to realize, hey, there's a lot, lot of [ __ ] up [ __ ] in here. And each generation just finds more and more that is wrong with these particular attacks. More and more. And we're, we're starting to literally walk away from it. There's got to be something else that is a little bit more progressive than an 1800-year-old book. There's got to be something, man. There's got to be something.

Yeah. I mean, I would say that that is, uh, you know, uh, our own free will as, as God made us. Um, and I guess just to address like one of these comments here, uh, Jerry, yes, like you do get to pick and choose. Like the Bible can be true for the time that it was written. And there you also have to realize that when reading those texts, that it has been influenced by man and it has been influenced by people and that not everything in there is necessarily 100% true or directly from God or Jesus or anything like that. Like you have to be able to come and what doesn't.

How did you determine some of it was from God? And so, sir, there, like we can agree to disagree on the fact that there is a certain amount of belief that comes with the Bible. Okay. So it, okay. So now I think that we've got to the actual meat of the conversation because it sounds like you're really just holding on to it because of a religious reason and not just for a moralistic reason. Like you have a belief that's somehow connected to it. How did you determine any of it was written by God? The only way that I, there, there is no empirical way to decide what was written or what was not, like written or told by God.

Did human beings—

100%.

Did human beings put the ink on paper?

Absolutely.

Okay.

So, we know at the very least that humans wrote it. This other level of God told them what to write or inspired them to write or influenced it in in any way, shape, or form. This is something that we don't have any evidence for.

But you believe it regardless. See, this is what I'm talking about, man. This is literally what I'm talking about. You don't just have this book for some moral reason. Does you just read it every once in a while to remind yourself? Again, you don't exist in a vacuum. Parts of this book that tried to tell you that God is the author of this [ __ ] or something like that, or "all scripture is God-breathed." You just kind of believe when, as Voltaire said, "When we believe absurdities, we commit atrocities." You are accepting the parts of the Bible that we don't have any evidence for. Let alone are you going in there and you're saying, "Oh, hey, well, this is good and this is bad." And you're acknowledging that some of it is bad. And you still follow it or you still, or you still not follow the bad thing, but you still like this book. You still again put it as your lighthouse or your true north. You, you go one step further and say that some things that you don't even know, you just accept. What's happening here, man? It, it definitely just sounds like you just haven't like you're just, you're just holding on to it. You're just clinging on to it. It sounds like you're really close to the concept of like a, uh—

You're really close to the concept of deconstructing, but you're holding on for some reason. You're holding on for some reason. I don't know what it is.

You're holding on. You're just clinging to it. I couldn't tell you why. And you probably know why. Or maybe you don't. I don't know. I definitely don't. But you're holding on to it. And hey, it's scary, man. It's [ __ ] terrifying sometimes. Absolutely. But you get through it. And you know, you get through it even better with a community. A community of people who, uh, have either gone through it or currently going through it or are about to go through it. The deconstruction community here on TikTok and on YouTube for the most part is pretty good. On TikTok, it's even better because you can have like DMs and stuff like that. Definitely good. I would encourage you to to to follow some of the people who are in the chat down there. They have some really good people who, uh, uh, like I said, have gone through what you're, you're going through, have clung to the Bible for some ridiculous reason and made excuses for why they want to cling on to it for the for the same amount of time that you have. Maybe even still, but it happens. Uh, down there. Uh, Elizabeth Heretics in the TikTok chat. She actually just put a Discord, uh, link. That is the Discord, Deconstructing Chaos, and that is the Discord that I'm a part of. There's some other great content creators that are part of that. There's mental health, uh, Wednesdays where we do some like checkups just to make sure everybody's still, uh, above board, or not above board, but above ground, I guess, uh, and just doing good. Uh, and, uh, there's also, you know, a lot of just, uh, really good information and resources and stuff like that for, uh, like reading and these conversations about like religion and stuff like that. It's really good. It's really good. I would encourage you to at least check out that Discord there. Check it out.

Yeah. I mean, uh, based on a lot of the chat reactions, I'm going to pass, probably, but—

Oh, chat reactions to what?

I don't know. Everything I've been saying, apparently.

Yeah. Well, it's because they've heard it before. They've heard it before. They've gone through a lot of them stuff, a lot of that stuff themselves.

Well, there's, there's never a reason to be rude or shitty. Well, again, when you hear people try to give excuses for why they believe something and they're really trying to hide something else, like it was pretty obvious that there was something else that was connecting you to the book and not just this morality kind of thing. It was a faith. You had a faith that was kind of tucked away and you didn't really want to talk about that because again, that, and as we kind of inched closer to it, you're like, "Oh, that's another conversation." It. Yeah, that's because that's kind of what you're doing. You're going through deconstructing right now. Like you've already started, like you're in the early, early, early stages of it and to the point to where you don't even, you kind of wanted to put that off to the side. You didn't even really want to talk about it. And that's as long as you're just honest. As long as you're honest, you're fine. You're okay. But there's a lot of people who aren't—

Uh, honest. And so I think, I think, yeah, every once in a while the TikTok chat can be, get a little, they can jump down people's throats a little fast, but, uh, half the people who are in here aren't even in the Discord.

I don't even think a quarter of the people in here are in the Discord.

Yeah, that's fair. Well, hey man, I appreciate your time. You have a great rest of your day.

All right, thanks a lot. That was Matter Gang, everybody. Matter Gang. Matter Gang. Matter Gang. Anyways, uh, let's see. Uh, $4.99 there said, "How do I talk? I'm Steve." Okay. Uh, that was spun muffin cruising Steve. Well, you can, uh, click the link that's in the chat. Uh, I, I, I take guests on TikTok. If you don't have a TikTok or anything like that, you can send a super chat and I promise I will read it out loud and respond to it just like I just did there for you. Um, so if you had a question or a statement or something like that, you could, you could do that there. That's fine. But, uh, it's really just up to you. Uh, let's see. And there's a $1.99 there from the prototype 1619 says, "Do mermaids have creases?" I don't know what that means. I don't want to know what that means. All right. Good convo. Oh, thank you. Uh, let's see. $4.99 from Muffin Cruz and Steve says, "I'm a fan. I want to talk. Please." Uh, well, yeah, just request up. You take guests on TikTok. YouTube doesn't have that option. Just, I take guests on TikTok. The links in the chat. Uh, and then, uh, dude921 $4.99 says, "Jesus called her a little dog. A common phrase then healed her anyway. Showing faith crosses ethnic lines, not division. He literally ignored her. He literally ignored her after hearing her. And only once she acknowledged that she was a little dog did she actually get, uh, healed. Also, 'little dog' is not better than a dog. That's what common phrase. Please provide to us the common phrase where that is found, uh, where it was just like a term of endearment or not at all something that is insulting. That's just some weird apologetics [ __ ]." Yeah, it's really weird. Okay. Uh, let's see here. Dan, I guess. Dan Dapper Dan. What is that? What is that from? Anyways, what's going on? Oh. Oh, no. Dapper. Okay. Dapper Dan. Oh, that's Dan. I was thinking it was someone else. No, Dapper Dan's He's awesome. Okay. All right. So, uh, what's going on, Dan?

Hey, not much, man. Just killing some time at work. How about you?

Um, uh, same.

Is this your job full-time?

Uh, pretty much. What you got? Uh, not much. Uh, just saw you kind of like doing the live and figured I'd, uh, hop on and just have a chat. So, um, so it's like, all right, Jesus and Paul never existed. Prove me wrong. Okay. Um, so I guess I only recently started kind of looking into Christianity. Maybe like a, maybe about a year, year and a half, something like that. Um, so I know there's plenty of—

Yeah. Like grew up Christian but, uh—

You know, was like atheist pretty much most of my life.

Gross.

So kind of coming back to it now.

Coming back to Christianity?

Mhm.

Why?

Um, well, it's a little more complicated, a little longer of a story, but, uh—

Sounds like it's probably a girl.

It has literally nothing to do with a girl. Now, a dude.

It's not a dude. I promise you that. No. Um, there was just a—

It's not either of the two. Um, there was a period of my life where I explored, you know, more like, like different religions, different types of, uh, spiritual schools, I guess. Um, so, you know, it's just been like several years of doing that and then, um, yeah.

Settled on Christianity.

Well, that's where I'm at currently. Yeah. So, what evidence persuaded you into thinking that Jesus and Paul existed 2,000 years ago as presented by the New Testament?

Um, it's a good question. I don't think—

That I could really point to and say—

I don't think I could point to and say that, uh, the Bible or the New Testament is going to be exactly like the, like some sort of concrete or objective evidence. Um, surely there's multiple, uh, you know, books, letters—

Did it for you? What was the evidence that convinced you that they existed 2,000 years ago?

Yeah. So for me, um, when looking into Christianity, it was more so I wanted to understand why it was such a worldwide popular religion. Um—

Why do people believe in these sorts of things?

Um, no, it's not because it's has—

No, I don't think that the Roman Empire would have given up their religion for absolutely no purpose for a essentially a slave religion at the time. A slave religion. Where the [ __ ] are you getting this history?

Where are you getting this?

Where, where do you think—

So, the reason it's in world, the reason it's a worldwide religion is because the countries that, uh, remained after the Roman Empire fell, many of those on the, uh, like the western coast of the empire. These are going to be primarily England, France, Spain, Portugal. Um, you're also going to have Netherlands and even Italy, uh, have gone around and, uh, colonized most of the world. So, yeah, dude, like why the [ __ ] do you think that people in South America know who Jesus is? Do you think that's because like they saw him or something? Like, very clearly it's because somebody came over with their religion and forced it upon them.

Okay. But the religions that existed within Rome before Christianity ever took hold,

Right? These were already well-ingrained religions with extremely powerful sects, governance, authority.

Um, it wasn't until Emperor Constantine pretty much declared Christianity a, uh, religion—

That was even allowed within Rome that this sort of started taking hold. And his experience—

That doesn't make sense. According—

If it didn't take hold, he wouldn't have done anything with it. The reason he did it is because his mom became Christian. But that being said, that's in 312 and prior to that, uh, Christianity absolutely spread. Absolutely. And by the way, aside from a three to six-year period before the Edict of Milan in 312 from from, uh, Constantine that made all religions legal, including Christianity, uh, Christianity was not officially illegal. Like, it just wasn't like—

Okay.

It wasn't.

Okay.

But so you're saying that Constantine decided to transform the state religion to Christianity?

No.

Because of his mother?

No. He made all religions legal, including Christianity, which he had a soft spot for because of his mom. But Christianity didn't become the official religion of the state until 380. In fact, there were some emperors between 312 and 380 that, at least one that tried to stop, uh, Christianity from growing as big as it did. But the 312 Edict of Milan gave them the, uh, legality to the legal right to to proselytize. So it was, it was pretty much game over in 312 because that was them having a stamp of approval that said you can go and spread this [ __ ] as much as you want. And since, since the religion is syncretic, it, it works really well. It's able to be spread because there's a whole lot of different influences that go into Christianity. So, they're able to spread this thing very, very easily. Um, but, uh, as as much as that works, that doesn't really mean that much. Like, if, if let's say, for instance, if you were to give, if you were to give presidents in the United States the same amount of power that emperors got back then and they could change like the official religion of the entire empire. You know what I'm talking about?

Uh, if you were to give a US president that amount of power. We came this close in 2012 to getting our first Mormon president. So if he had had, uh, if he had become the, uh, uh, the president and had the power of an emperor and made the official religion of the entire American empire, um, Mormon, then Mormonism—

Would beat Christianity from the time that it's, of the book is written to the time that it becomes the official religion of an empire. It would beat Christianity by 80 years. That doesn't make Mormonism true just because it spreads fast. That doesn't mean anything. It doesn't mean anything. It just all it means is that, uh, a bunch of people were able to be duped because they were already sort of kind of the religion that was close to it. If you have a Jesus and you say, "Hey, you, uh, hey, you, you worship Dionysus, the guy who God who changes water to wine. Here's a Jesus. He does the same thing." That's pretty easy. Likewise in America, if you've got, um, if you've got [ __ ] the Book of Mormon or whatever and you're like, "Oh, hey, you already have a Bible that's the Testament of Jesus. Here's another testament of Jesus Christ, you're already in the door. You're good to go. It's able to spread because it's so similar to the other religions because it's an offshoot of these other religions. It's based on them. It's influenced by them. That's the point. It's not anything like brand new or real. Doesn't make it real."

Well, so that's that's the interesting thing. Um, you know, when it comes to Christianity being an offshoot, certainly there are certain things that existed either even in the, I guess, the Mesopotamian lore as well as the, like Zoroastrian religion that certainly has—

Sure, it can just go to Greek. I mean, it can, if you want to find connections there, but even the Greeks, it's pretty obvious that they—

Are much bigger influences on—

What, uh—

Okay, what would you say is the, uh, the strongest, strongest resemblance to Jesus in Greek mythology? Would it be—

Asclepius and Dionysus, by the way, Serapis worshiped.

alongside Isis in Alexandria and brought down from Cope to Alexandria by Tommy the first soder to bridge the gap between Greek and Egyptian religions. Um and uh that is the same area. Cope is the same area that the first person to publish a gospel or to write to publish a gospel uh he comes from later on.

>> It's also by the way uh the province where Ply the Younger talks about Christians in 111 and he's like man I never dealt with them before or anything like that and here's what they believe. So, it's pretty pretty clear that this is not like an offshoot of Judaism or anything like this. This is just something that incorporates Judaism into the Gospels later, but it is something that is a mystery cult that's like a Greco Egyptian mystery cult. Um, they're based off of other concepts or other gods or other Christs because the term Christ means anointed and applied to different gods and different people prior.

>> Gotcha. Now, um, generally speaking, what about Christianity do you see or at least early Christianity do you see as being a a mystery cult of that time?

>> Literally about all of it. I mean, it straight up has Jesus in the Gospels saying that there's like mysteries of uh mysteries of the kingdom and he says that he talks in parables specifically so that only the people who follow will be able to understand it and the people outside won't be able to understand it. It's very clearly a mystery type uh religion. Uh, and the first the first gospel that's published has three gods. That'd be Jesus, Yahweh, and God the Father. Uh, God the Father is a previously unknown God who was separate from Yahweh who is trying to take us away from the Old Testament or the Old Covenant uh and bring us into a new covenant or a new testament under a new law according to the publisher of that first gospel. Um but nevertheless um yeah it's very clearly something that is steeped within this like mystery cult kind of concepts and phil philosophy of the time.

>> So hold on you said something interesting there. Um so this idea that God the father is separate from Yahweh the uh the old testament >> part of the first.

>> Okay. Can you uh I'm just interested like could you point me to where you would you get that >> Evangeline or Evangelian? It's the gospel that's published in about 144 by Marian.

>> Oh, Marcian of Ciph. Okay.

>> Yep. That's the same place >> was.

>> Yeah. But Marcian was a gnostic. He was gnostic is an umbrella term that the protoatholics give him. He he doesn't call himself a gnostic or anything like that. That's just some later term that's being used. which by the way is also talked about in this in in uh first Timothy. It says to avoid Marcian's book antithesis as well as nosticism which shows that it's very clearly being written in the second century.

>> Yes. Yeah. Because he was Marcian was the first to write essentially like a like a Bible of sorts or any kind of >> a canon >> sort of doctrine >> cannon on this. But um you see I I you know I don't I also have a hard time sometimes um kind of coinciding you know the New Testament God to the Old Testament God specifically.

>> It's almost as if they were not supposed to be >> so what do you think Jesus what do you think Jesus represented exactly? And you know you may say okay he never existed. Okay. But but explain to me what is the god the father then if it's separate from >> the unknown god Sarapus.

>> The unknown god Sarapus.

>> Okay.

>> As Tommy says he brought down the statue of Serapus from Copee down to Alexandria in 300 B.CE. Uh because he received a dream from the unknown god.

>> Okay. Some interesting stuff to look into here. Okay. Um yeah. So, you know, in terms of and you think Jesus as a person, like even if it wasn't even if the stories weren't true, you think he just probably never existed at all to begin with?

>> Yep. As a heady artist said in there in the chat said, Marc's god was holy good. So, you have a god who is like the demiarch. He starts the universe, but he he's he's evil. He he sets the laws of nature and everything like that, and he's a terrible god. But then another god uh who is wholly good and just solely wants the best for everybody. He sends his son as a sacrifice uh to Yahweh in order to purchase humanity's souls away from Yahweh. Uh that was all that it was. Like it's not dying for sins. He's dying so that uh humanity can be purchased away from Yahweh. This was actually a fairly common belief at the time. this philosophy that was uh or not maybe not common but it was something that had been talked about around the time because people believed that there at least had to be two gods. One God that creates the world and one god that you actually that actually gives a [ __ ].

>> But does Jesus ever in any of the gospels mention this as being the case? Because as far as I know, he refers to Yahweh directly by name.

>> Well, yeah. In the gospels we have today, that's not Marian's gospel. But uh well I guess I'd have to look to see which ones were written around which time. But >> yeah, they come out through Marcion. Mark is the play version of Marcon's gospel. Uh Matthew is a reputation to Marian's gospel. Luke straight up uses Marcian's gospel from chapters 4 to 22 with some additions, some slight edits and then additions at beginning and afterward. Uh John comes later and kind of sort of bridges that gap if you will but trying to bring it all tie it all together if you will. Um but yeah, there's no evidence whatsoever of Matthew, Mark, Luke or John before 140s >> before you're saying 140 >> now. Um,

>> in fact, the first person to even allude to the gospels is Justin Martyr in 155 saying memoirs of the apostles.

>> Is isn't it considered that Paul's letters are written around 50 like 50 to the only reason people do that is because they take Acts's word for it. Acts word Acts word for it. uh whenever it tries to say that Paul was in this location or this location or this location, but Marion actually published in 144 again nine or 10 of the Pauline letters. And so, um yeah, and that's the first time that anybody ever gets them. And so, all the author of Acts has to do is just take a look at those letters and try to say that he was in those locations at a certain time. That's all that it is. Uh Acts is really the only like uh biographical information for this biographical information for this Paul. everything else is just, you know,

>> so you're saying that you're saying it could be that Marcian published his works and then these acts are almost like a form of damage control.

>> Uh, kind of. Acts is just like a continuation. It's like a story. It's like uh >> it's it's the it's the adventures of the disciples. That's all that it is. It's like a it's like the Odyssey or some [ __ ] It's like, oh, hey, let's go sail around and [ __ ] and like spread spread the good word. No, that's interesting. Um, there's definitely a lot. You know, the one thing I like about just this topic in general is there's a lot of information to be to to be read. Where did you So, like did you study everybody from the raid? What's going on, Mezo? And probably also Joel and all that kind of [ __ ] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Hey, hey, to everybody there from the Mezo raid.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But also, thank you for being here and keep going.

>> Oh. Um my question to you was just uh like do you have a background in religious studies or theology or anything like that?

>> My background is in data science uh I'm a data scientist and me and my data science co-artner uh who has background in philosophy and religion that's his major uh there our book over this topic goes over when the New Testament was written and that helps us understand a little bit as to the evolution of the stories and stuff like that and we see that it's written in the second century as opposed to the first.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> So, my background is data science.

>> Got it. Yep. Okay. But yeah, you seem to to have a decent background information about this kind of stuff. So, um, yeah,

>> I would recommend checking out the book, man. It's only $3 for the ebook.

>> I mean, it's not like break the bank or something. Yeah. Yeah. The book Christ before Jesus. The links in my bio. The ebook is, like I said, $3. Um I mean, there's a print version and an audiobook version, too, if you want to check it out. But, yeah. Now, let me ask you, so as far as all the all the letters of the of the New Testament, um, as far as it goes that people even back then would be writing accounts of people that had lived or had gone to certain places, stuff like this, I mean, how common was it to keep historical records and biographical records of just people in general?

>> uh people that would be of as as influential as Jesus pretty pretty common considering the fact that Josephus mentions a lot of people back then uh but for some reason just never mentions these things. Uh the only mention of Jesus that we get we can clearly tell was not actually at anything Josephus wrote but an interpolation from someone later on.

>> Right? Because I think the strongest evidence that most people point to is just I mean it's the Bible. It's that it's the New Testament itself and the circular references to Jesus, right? I don't think that there's a whole lot of references to Jesus existing outside of

>> Oh, yeah. The first time that we get anybody definitively talking about Jesus outside of Christianity is in 166 from Lucian of Samada who says that a patricidal con man named Peragonist Proteus wrote some of the Christians books and edited others in the middle of the second century. interesting. So, yeah, I don't know. You know, I I wouldn't be able to argue along these lines or or anything because I just don't have that kind of background information. To me personally, I find the Bible interesting. Um, there's plenty of other spiritual texts that are interesting as well. But, um one thing that's

>> But something must have convinced you that Jesus actually existed 2,000 years ago. What was that? because it sounds like you've tried out all these other religions and you're like, "Nah, Christianity. That's where it's at, fam." So, what was it >> that convinced you that Jesus actually existed 2000 years ago? I don't care if you think Jesus healed you or saved you or [ __ ] you after yesterday. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about whether or not Jesus existed 2,000 years ago. What was it that convinced you of that history? Because if the if the New Testament authors when talking about Jesus, if they got the [ __ ] that we can actually check, like the history stuff, if they got that [ __ ] wrong, what makes you think they got the stuff we can't check right?

>> So, um, to be honest with you, it's it's a difficult thing to answer because it's >> it's a chick.

>> I don't know.

>> Just say it's a chick or a dude.

>> It's not a chick, bro. It's not a chick. Like, I literally would never change my philosophy of life because of a woman. Like, it's not that. Um,

>> okay. A dude. It's fine. It's okay, man. That's the way your gay way is. And it's all right.

>> It's a dude.

>> Well, let me tell you something. What? What? I'll tell you. No,

>> it's a dude.

>> I'll tell you something that I found interesting.

>> It's not a dude or it's a >> Is it both?

>> It's not a furry. It's not a dude. It's not a cat.

>> Is it both?

>> Not a bird.

>> You're over there in over there in in in Utah. No, it's not in Utah. It's not. No. Uh I'll tell you what what piqued my interest u kind of initially. Um if you're a data scientist, I'm sure you've heard about No, I'm I'm sure you've heard

>> Dan. Are you there?

>> Dan, can you hear him?

>> Dan, was it a >> He's not What?

>> Is that a dude? It's not a dude. It's not a girl. Bro, I don't know what to tell you.

>> Dan, you dirty dog.

>> Hey, man. Hey, let me like let me let me tell you let me tell you what it was. So, do you um you're a data scientist, right?

>> Mhm.

>> So, are you familiar with uh with with Defcon?

>> Where is this going?

>> I'll tell I mean I'll tell you if you let me, but

>> are you familiar with it?

>> Just lay on the plane, man.

>> Well, sure. So, uh, several years back I worked at a security company and would go to Defcon for, you know, work reasons and for other reasons. Um, just for fun. And, uh, I remember walking in.

>> It's not It's not a dude, but I can I can imagine why you'd think so if it's at Defcon,

>> but there's a lot of uh there's a lot of people that practice like witchcraft in the security world if you didn't know that. Um, it just is.

>> And uh,

>> come on, man. You're killing me, Smalls.

>> What?

>> Hey, man. When you walk into the Defcon [ __ ] grand arborum or whatever the hell you call it, the grand entrance, and you see a pentagram on the floor and like a wish with candles or whatever,

>> just sitting around doing some sort of weird [ __ ] You think, "What the [ __ ] is this?" like what why would this belong here at all? Right? Like this is a security convention. It's for computer scientists. It's for engineers. Like what purpose does this have here? And I'm not even a Christian at the time. Like I was a complete atheist at the time. Um, but it's one of these things where it just makes you wonder like what is

>> So naturally Jesus existed because you saw a pentagram somewhere that you didn't expect it.

>> No, it's not that straightforward of a of a of a trajectory. It's more of I got involved with some of these people. I started doing some weird kooky [ __ ] just to see is it fun? Is it interesting?

>> And here we go. Like that's, you know, several years.

>> No, no herpes. Um, but, you know, several years went by where I was involved in some pretty strange [ __ ] Um, and then eventually, you know, you kind of keep reading and reading about all types of different things. Where the New Age movement came from, who came up with, you know, the Wikah movement in the United States?

>> How does this end with Jesus actually existing? How does this end with you having evidence for this?

>> Well, it's not about It's again, I I don't really claim to have concrete evidence here, but this is You asked how did I get to the point where I thought Jesus existed, right? So this 2,000 years ago, not like today. Again, I don't care if you know Jesus jerked you off yesterday. I hope you came, but like I that has nothing to do with whether or not he existed 2,000 years ago. What? What? Land the plane over there, man. We are Malaysian Airlines MH370. I see the sun more than I see the ocean. I I I want to land.

>> Um,

>> well, I don't have anywhere to land for you, buddy. This is just kind of how it went.

>> Just admit that it was a dude or a chick. Like, it's pretty obvious that you're doing it for social reasons. Regardless of if it's like a relationship or not, it's pretty obviously social reasons,

>> man. You know, I wish it was that simple. Like, it would be simpler for you. There is no self-respecting person who is actively seeking truth that doesn't like go back into religion for anything other than just social reasons. Like why? Either that or like either

>> either that or because you joined AA.

>> Neither neither of these things are true, man. Like I don't know what

>> I don't know. I don't know. I don't know what to tell you, man. You you were outside of religion and you decided, you know what? I'm going to go back over there without any evidence. Why? It's it's look some every once in a while you experience something that you don't really have a good explanation for. Could it be psychosis? Could it be some type of psychological influence?

>> Yep. Yep.

>> Sure. But enough strange things happen in my two, three years delving into

>> you see the pentagram and you're like, "Oh my god, Jesus must have been real."

>> No, because I went full into I went full into witchcraft. I like was super into it for a while.

>> Come on, man. Witchcraft? Really? Really?

>> I wanted to understand why would somebody in today's age even consider something like this? And in witchcraft, did you find the evidence for Jesus 2,000 years ago?

>> No, but I found a lot of people who really really disliked the idea of Jesus. And um

>> okay,

>> a lot of people also had this kind of understanding that he was something other than what the Bible portrayed him as, right? And I saw somebody write a comment of, oh, you know, Jesus is an allegory for the sun in the sky or something like that, which is a

>> silly. It's just zeitgeist [ __ ] Okay. Look, look, cuz I don't agree with that either. That's dumb as [ __ ] Uh, all right. It sounds like It doesn't really sound like you were like involved with anybody like actual like riches or anything like that. Was any of them named Blair? Anyways, the point is if Look, it sounds like you were just involved with a whole bunch of just like like hippies, just some weird people like it's whatever, man. I mean sometimes sometimes

>> I mean is that not allowed?

>> I mean you can that's perfectly fine but that doesn't somehow give you evidence for someone 2,000 years ago

>> just because oh hey man I got involved with some weird people and they did some weird [ __ ] so therefore something happened 200 years ago. The [ __ ] How did you What are you talking about? Like it's just weird. They're just man I and I I say this as pe as someone who has friends here on Tik Tok and YouTube who consider themselves to be I don't know [ __ ] um u Norse pagan uh your your your Irish Gaelic red fez adjacent [ __ ] witch water buffalo people. I I don't know what they are, but I mean, you know,

>> what they are is they're on Prozac is what they are. But

>> regardless, regardless, that doesn't somehow give us the answer of 2,000 years ago. Even if somebody is whatever they want to be.

>> No, it it doesn't. No, I I wouldn't say that simply that gives you evidence for anything. I

>> Okay, then what was the evidence that convinced you of 2,000 years ago, man? Man, the goddamn plane. We had the goddamn plane, Bruce. Come on.

>> I I don't I look, I don't have evidence that he existed 2,000 years ago. It's simply a matter of

>> Well, then I hate to break this to you, but he didn't. So, there's that.

>> But do you have do you have evidence that it was a completely fabricated story?

>> Yes. Yes. Yes.

>> Okay. All right. What is what is your prime example of this?

>> A human being cannot be born 10 years before he is born. So the way that Jesus is portrayed, even the natural Jesus in the New Testament is humanly impossible.

>> Okay.

>> Matthew says that he is born during the time of Herod the Great who died in 4 B.CE. Luke says he was born during the time or the census of Corinus the governor of Syria that happened in 6 CE. That is a 10-year gap between the reign and the death of Herod. the reign of Corinus and the death of Herod 10 years apart. All right, that means Jesus according to Matthew was born a minimum of 10 years before Luke says he was born. That means that what you're going to have to do is you're going to have to pick which one you want to go with or neither of them. All right, but the way that he's portrayed in the New Testament didn't exist. All right, in Matthew 23 when he talks about rabbis, that's weird because the first rabbi is in 70. Yanzakai is his name. He starts the first rabbitic school after the fall of the temple in 70 at the end of the first Jewish Roman war with the approval of Emperor Vpasian. All right. So that's weird. Jesus in John 5. Uh so we we've tackled Luke. We've tackled Matthew. Uh we we've we've now we're moving on to now we're moving on to John. In the Gospel of John in John 5, Jesus goes to the pool of Bethesda. It's got five porticos where people lay under them when they're sick and they get into the water in order to be healed. That's really weird, especially since we found the uh uh the uh porticos and the pool of Bethesda in like sometime in the 1930s or so, I think, or maybe the late 1800s is when we found it. Guess what? It's part of an Escleian. That's a temple to the Greek healer god Esleius, which I already told you was where a lot of these ideas come from anyways because he's a healer god. He people believe that they could be healed by him. And this Escleian temple was built in the 130s. So at about a hundred years after Jesus dies, that's really weird. I don't think he can go there. I don't think he can go to a to to to a a place that gets built a 100 years later. Then if you want to go over to Mark, Mark is really shitty because it can't even get like directions down right. It says in Mark that Jesus left uh the city of Ty to go down to the Sea of Galilee. And that's fine. That's southeast of Ty. But it says he goes through Siden to get there. Siden is 30 miles north of Ty and you have to travel you have to uh uh uh across a river and a mountain range to get there. It it doesn't even have its geography right. It's very clear that these texts are not written by people who were there who people who are writing a real historical story. They are writing a fictional story based off of some of the information that they have at the time when they're writing in the middle of the second century. That's when they're writing it. So that's what they're writing. They're they're writing about stuff that doesn't make any sense. The supernatural stories of Jesus get lifted from prior sources. Dionis is able to change water into wine. Uh Eskelepus heals you. Serapus, the oracles of Serapus can heal you with their spit. Orion can walk on water. All right. Uh uh and uh then you have uh um Romulus who ascends into heaven after his after his death. All right. Next we have the natural stories of Jesus. The natural stories of Jesus are lifted from prior sources when he flips over the temple flip flips over the temple flips over the tables of the temples and everything like that. Everybody's selling [ __ ] That's just taken straight from Hosea 9. Hosea 9 literally has a a poem about seeing a fig tree early in leaf and everything like that or it compares Israel to it. And then it says, "For their wickedness and uh uh and go, I will drive them out of my house. Ephraim's glory will fly away like a bird, like the people selling doves and stuff like that. Drive them out of my house." In the Gospel of Mark, the first one to have this story or whatever, it literally goes Jesus goes up to the fig tree and sees that it's early in leaf. So, he curses it. Then it goes into the temple, flips over the [ __ ] and birds fly away and [ __ ] like that because it's the the the people selling doves. Then it goes back to the fig tree later on, strangely enough, and it's withered from the root. That's weird. It's very clearly taken from Hosea 9. It's not a real story. Even the natural things are taken from prior works. The teachings are taken from prior works. Jesus bin Sarak, a literal guy named Jesus, writes a book called the wisdom of Sarak in Hebrew in the early 2nd century BCE and is translated into Greek by its grandson in the late 2nd century BC. This is just a bunch of teachings. It's all that it is. In fact, you can actually get it in some copies of the Catholic Bible. Sometimes it's called Ecclesiasticus. And in this, it has a it's just straight teachings. And Jesus echoes these teachings in the Gospels. There's even a sixword in a row uh uh phrase that is lifted directly or is copied directly from uh the wisdom of Sarak in the earliest gospel evangel on top of that on top of that uh in 130s in the 130s we have uh Rabbi Aka the the personal rabbi for Shiman Baropa who was part of the Barca revolt and everything uh which got the Jews banished out of Judea in the 130s. Rabbi Aka tried to ban the reading of the wisdom of Sarak, saying that heretical people or like uh um uh heretics were starting to use the book. Yeah. Because they're starting to use it to write the stories of Jesus because they show up in the 140s. That's how that works.

>> It's it's it's not a real story. It's not a real story. Uh there are elements of the story that uh uh have third person omnisient style of writing where you're able to hear behind walls. How the [ __ ] does anybody know what Jesus and Satan were talking about in the desert? No one was there. How the [ __ ] does anybody know what Jesus and Pilate were talking about when he clears out the room? No one was there. When in Luke, when Pilate sends him over to uh uh to Antipus, how does anybody know what he said to Antipus? How does anyone know to this when the disciples are asleep when Jesus is praying in the Garden of Gethsemane? How do they know what he said? Even if you think, okay, maybe they were asleep and they just kind of like heard it or whatever and they could recall it whenever they woke up because Jesus couldn't tell him because he got arrested right after that and then dies. Maybe they're like, "Oh, he's just asleep and you're able to hear it." No. Well, in Luke it says that an angel came down and administered help to Jesus. Well, that's really weird. How do they see if they were asleep? How' they see this happen? Even if I grant you the resurrection after after uh after the guards leave the tomb in Matthew, they leave the tomb and they go to the the high priest and they say, "Hey, this is what we saw." And the high priest said, "Hey, okay, this is what we should do. We got to come up with the idea that the disciples stole the body." There was no Christians in that [ __ ] room. How does anyone know that's what they said? It's an incredibly fake story. Incredibly fake. In multiple gospels and in the book of Acts, it talks about uh synagogues in Jerusalem. Why? Because you would go to a synagogue if you can't make it to the temple. There's no synagogues in Jerusalem while the second temple is there. And the second temple doesn't get destroyed until 70. So why does Paul say that he's been to multiple synagogues and the temple in Jerusalem in Acts?

>> I don't know what to tell.

>> I don't know.

>> It's a fake [ __ ] story. It's not real. The first time that we get any mention of Jesus, any mention at all, any mention at all is in 144 by Marcion. That's 114 years after the supposed death of Jesus. And even Marcion says that he doesn't believe that Jesus was even a human being. I don't know, man. And multiple times prior to this, we have Christians mentioned. Sutonius mentions him. No mention of Jesus. Ply mentions him. No mention of Jesus. mentions of a Christ that they worship because obviously Christians have to worship a Christ but Christ is a title and it never says that Christ is a man. Nothing. Nothing. Tacitus mentions Christians. That's really strange because if you think that that's the same group, well, I got bad news for you. We got an inscription over in Rome called CILVI24944. It's written in Latin and it has the word Christians and it dates between 16 BCE and 37 CE. So potentially before Jesus was even born, the Christians are already around. We have a cup over in Alexandria that dates to the late 1st century BCE or early 1st century CE and it says through Crestos the magician on it. We're not even supposed to have the stories of Jesus according to Christian tradition in Alexandria or Egypt until after 50 because that's when Mark apparently shows up down there. Mark the evangelist.

>> Doesn't make a lot of sense, does it? Oh, and I'm not [ __ ] done. Down in Alexandria, we have Lake Morotus. All right. And next to that is where Pho of Alexandria, who writes who whose existence, by the way, he's born 20 years before Jesus was supposedly born. He dies 20 years after Jesus supposedly dies. Guess who he never [ __ ] mentions? Jesus. Guess who he also doesn't mention? Christians. Guess who he also doesn't mention? Paul. None of that [ __ ] None of it. But nevertheless, nevertheless, he does mention in his book on the contemplative life which he writes in about 20. He writes about some people outside of Alexandria live around Lake Morotus in a commune. He calls them the therapeuti. Therapeut like therapeutic like healers, this kind of thing. We actually see in an incription on the Greek island of Dos that they are affiliated with the Greek go the Greek Greco Egyptian god. Again, Serapus. Serapus. All right. They're affiliated with therapist in 20 in Egypt. Epiphanius and Eusevius both people who are writing in the 4th century of Christian history. They say that the theraputi mentioned by Pho of Alexandria were the first Christian monks 10 years before the ministry of Jesus. How

>> well then not a real

>> what are they referring to the first move? They're referring to the the theraputi mentioned by Pho of Alexandria as the first Christian monks. Even if you don't think that's the same thing, Pho of Alexandria dies in 50. So he can't mention people in Egypt who were the first Christian monks if Christianity according to the tradition didn't make it to Egypt until after 50. I I don't know tell you that this is a fake [ __ ] story. It's a mythology about a mystery cult that had been around for a long time. It's not a real story. This is made the [ __ ] up. It's not real. It's not real. It's not real. It is a fake story filled with [ __ ] that literally can't happen sometimes and contradicts itself. Like Luke says that Jesus was in Udo at the time of Herod the Great, but then says he's born during the census. So even Luke itself says that Jes Jesus was in Mary's womb for 10 years minimum. It also goes on to say in Luke 3 that uh uh all of like John the Baptist ministry and stuff like that starts at the same time as the 15th year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar which is the year 29 which is the same time that Pilate would have been a ruler of uh uh Judea. He would have been the prefect there but between 26 to 36. So that's fine. But then he mentions Lysanius the tetrarch of Abene. He died in 33 B.CE. CE, we have coins with his [ __ ] face on him. He's dies 60 years before the rest of the story. It's fake.

>> It's not a real story. It's not a real story. It's fake.

>> It's not real.

>> You know, it's um

>> It's definely interesting. Um all this is in your in your PDF. You said

>> it's in the book. Uh a lot of what I've talked about was in the book. On top of that, there is a website. If you don't want to buy $3 ebook and go through that or whatever, you can check out there's a website. It's called mythicism.web.app. I'll go ahead and pull it up here. It is a website that goes over a lot of this information here. Uh you can actually uh go up to the top and you can actually look at all of the [ __ ] that I talked about. Like second century, you can look at uh Marion, you can look at Satonius, you can look at the gospels, the anacronisms is what I was talking about there is things that don't line up with the time. Uh, you can take a look at Josephus and like it's got it's got the [ __ ] receipts like I mean we it a ton of information because my friend Grey Eyes put together this website. It is an incredible website. It's an incredible resource for all the stuff that I talk about and more. Jesus nor Paul, neither Jesus nor Paul existed in the way that the New Testament tells you. Now, if you think that there's some guy named Jesus, great. Cool. Josephus talks about multiple people who know Jesus. My favorite is someone who dies defending the walls of Jerusalem in 70. He dies of an overdose of Roman catapult. I don't think that that guy is the Jesus who gets crucified by Pilate between 26 and 36. That's impossible. But there are some people named Jesus. If you want to say that that's the motivation, fine. Knock yourself out. It's a Jesus in name only or a gino as I like to call them. But there's no evidence whatsoever. In fact, there's evidence against the idea that the Jesus of the New Testament ever walked this earth. It's not a real story.

>> Gotcha. I will I will take a look. Uh there's a lot of things there that I've not I've not heard of before. I don't know how

>> here in church.

>> Yeah. No, that's fair. I mean, I wouldn't expect to. Um Okay, cool. Well, we'll take a look. Good talking. All right, see you. Thank you very much uh to Lauren for renewing your membership there on YouTube. Thank you very much. That means a lot. That means a lot. Uh but they also put a little thing in here that doesn't mean a lot to me. Uh but no, it says uh queas are boring. Looking forward to turkey head. Hate those turkey heads. I can't stand them. I really can't. Uh $5 there from Bob Davis 4419 says, "How did those apostles even have access to Marion's gospel?"

>> Uh, so I I would say as far as the people who were like writing uh like the other gospels and stuff like that, like infrared reputation, I would say it's just something that was being passed around. It was being passed around within the Christian or Christian uh communities, this mystery cult, that kind of thing. Um, it's even very possible that he's still in Rome at the time, which means that they were able to write a lot of this [ __ ] in Rome. Uh, and and and and had access to his text very easily because he was right there in Rome. Uh, Titus Humphrey.

>> Hello.

>> Hey, what you got?

>> Hey. So, um, I've been watching your stream for a while. You keep popping up. You used to pop up on my YouTube shorts feed because I'm a YouTube shorts watcher and I actually made a Tik Tok account because I actually wanted to hop on here and talk to you.

>> Oh, nice. Very nice. Yeah, I uh I am not particularly old, so it's quite possible some points I make are going to have the uh a more youthful flare to it is the only way I can describe it. But I did have some questions um about you and the philosophy you've accumulated on here.

>> The philosophy I am

>> Yeah. like u you know how like your paradigm your worldview is constructed through a series of arguments uh you make in your head it's everyone's is and it's like these things that build how you look out at the world I wanted to ask um you a few questions about that because I'm a curious soul and I'm struggling sometimes to understand some of the stuff you said

>> curious hole is that what you said

>> soul

>> I'm too much of a virgin to give a crap about holes.

>> What?

>> Nothing.

>> You say, "Wait,

>> so

>> wait, wait, wait. Did you Okay. Did you say something? You're the like the bottom of a shoe or something? Like a soul?"

>> Oh, I said I'm a curious soul. So, I wanted to ask you questions or something.

>> Your world view.

>> Yeah. I'm uh I'm pretty young, so I use some weird terms. I'm sorry.

>> Curious soul. Yeah.

>> Is that like someone who like walks around a lot or something?

>> Uh, you're fine. So,

>> you got to pay the troll toll if you want to get in this boy's soul.

>> You got to pay the troll toll to get in.

>> Of course. So, um, correct me if I'm wrong, but the basis of this live stream is for people to come on here and we're supposed to find non-Christian texts that prove the existence of God. I mean, of Jesus, right?

>> Yeah. I don't give a [ __ ] if you use Christian text. It's perfectly fine with me as long as you can establish that they're historically reliable.

>> Ah, okay. Okay. So, one thing I will point out and I'm curious how you'll

>> really quick. Really Titus, how old are you real fast?

>> Um, 16.

>> All right. Well, here's the deal. Good call. Everybody, listen. I am not supposed to have you up here unless you're 18. But here's the deal. I will allow for you to ask one question. It is my rule for anybody under 18. You can ask one question. So, make it good. All right, give me just a second. Do you believe that um self-documentaries or self written items about a person's existence can prove their existence in history? Or do you believe that if someone only writes texts about themselves uh or everything's a first person text that um they no longer they don't have credibility um in historical analysis? Like for example, Alexander the Great, his existence is almost entirely proved through the firsthand accounts of his generals. Do those not have historical um legitimacy due to the fact that uh his generals have some discrepancies in their reports and they're all first person accounts.

>> All right. So in in in short uh no they do not lose their credibility. Um the credibility of a document a claim is backed up by in my opinion we take a look at you know with me and my co-author we take a look at two different things. We take a look at the stometry of it to make sure that that text itself if we can check actually comes back as that author and no one else or it doesn't appear to be like something that is written at a different point in time using a different style uh or by a different author or like composite or something like that. On top of that, if the content itself lines up with that time period from what we do know from other contemporaries and stuff like that and we can actually corroborate it, then that's really good. Um but yeah, somebody just saying, "Oh, hey, I knew this person." that's not a problem as long as what they're saying about that person isn't something that like doesn't line up with history. Uh like if I say I knew George Washington uh and I also mentioned that he drove a Ford Mustang very clearly that would be wrong and you shouldn't trust what I'm saying. But if I say I know George Washington and stuff like that, that's perfectly fine. Like generally speaking, that's not really a problem. Uh it's not really an issue. But again, a lot of it just really depends on whether or not that content is supported by corroborating evidence. It I I'm not going to toss out somebody's writings simply because they're claiming it. Just because they claim that something happens doesn't I'm not going to toss it out simply because of that. And I'm also not going to automatically believe it just because I say it. What I'm going to do is I'm going to make sure that it lines up with other things that we have. That's all that it is. But I do have to let you go simply because you're younger than 18. But hopefully that's an answer. Um I I don't have a problem with someone saying I know Alexander the Great because what they talk about when they deal with Alexander the Great is things that line up with history. Uh, let's see. We've got some other people who are looking to come up. I think uh we got uh for the win one for the win. For the win one win one for the giver.

>> Yo yo yo, can you hear me?

>> Yep.

>> Hey hold. First of all, what's your age for Tik Tok purposes?

>> Oh, I'm 34.

>> 34. Okay. Uh, two more questions. Uh, are mermaids real? Yes or no?

>> To me? Uh, sure.

>> You think mermaids are real?

>> I I don't know. How would I know that, man?

>> What the hell is going on today?

>> All right, so I'm gonna need a yes or no on this one. Are mermaids real?

>> I'm going to say no for for the context here.

>> Okay. Yeah. No, it's not. All right. Uh and uh that's doing me off.

>> Lastly, uh and this is going to be a stranger question. Uh if I say, you know what, who said the phrase win one for the gipper?

>> Who said that?

>> Well, I don't have the answer to that.

>> Does anybody have the answer for that?

>> Because I mean, your entire name it says for the win one. So, I thought it was win-win for the gipper. No, it's just just threw it up there for the win.

>> Okay. Well, yes, it was Ronald Reagan. Ronald Reagan.

>> Nice. Didn't know that.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> Greatest president that we ever had in prison. No. No. I'm I'm kidding. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. There's a movie where he slaps a woman. Didn't any of you guys know that? That was weird. Anyways, yeah, I know. I know, Mike. He's a shitty president. But that being said, uh for for the win one, what you got?

>> Um so I guess two things. Uh first, um could I share a source also that would stand alongside that Jesus never existed?

>> What? Huh?

>> Can I share a source?

>> Share a source for what?

>> For for what we were claiming. Jesus and Paul never existed according to the the gospels. according to those agree source for like that backs this up or goes against it.

>> Yeah. No, it goes against it. Oh, no. Sorry. No, it backs it up. Backs it up. So, I don't know if anybody in your followers have heard of Jason of Archaic, his YouTube Archaic, but he has a video called The Crucifixion of the Typhonian, origin of the Gospel Story or something like that. But, uh, he goes three hours in depth on all of this. He talks about that he was in prison for 25 years and he read every single book that none of us could possibly finish in our entire life. Um, and he put it all together and he lays it all out. Not just talking about

>> how did he read more than what a person could read in their entire life.

>> If you followed him, you would you would understand by his library there there would not be enough time for you physically to read that he spending 25 years.

>> How does he have time physically to read something? He was in prison for 25 years and that's all he did every day 247.

>> Okay.

>> None of us in our normal lives

>> for 25 years then.

>> Well, yeah. I mean, go for it. And have the dedication to read the time to read it.

>> If you want to read some of the driest, most just boring material. Anyways, his video on that.

>> Look, I have read the book of Proverbs. I

>> I'm not talking about the Bible. I'm talking about all the all the church fathers, all the historians. I'm talking about every single one. All of

them. All of them. Yeah. Trust me. All of them.

And he, he, he's a chronic, so he, he, he puts chronological dates in order. He, he can spit out all this stuff like nobody. So anyways, this is just a source, archaic origin of, uh, the Jesus story or the crucifixion of the Typhonian. Um, anyways, that's that's a source.

My other thing was, I, I stand on that. All of the whole Jesus story, when they wrote these things, these were these were acts. These were poems. These were stage plays back then. That's what we're looking at. We're looking at long ago. This is, this is what the, the Greeks and the Romans would have went to, to, to see a stage play. Like we would go see a play at the theater. They would go see plays and this, I believe, this is one of them. It was the, the Jesus story. It's a play. That's why it's Acts. There's Acts in it. That's why the curtain opens and you see a quick act by Jesus, uh, healing the blind, and then the curtain shuts, and then the next curtain opens. And it's, that's why we don't have any filler in between. Everything is because they're all, they're all quick acts like you would see in a theater. There's no, there's no filler in between. And it just says, well, and then Jesus left to Damascus and walked away, and then the next curtain opens, and his next act is there. These are stage plays.

But that doesn't, I, I don't think that takes away from the message in the play, though. Talking, you know, we can go the spiritual route of the message behind it all is, you know, looking within yourself and stuff like that. I believe that was the message of the play. But I don't believe any of these guys were real, according to the New Testament, how it's presented to us. But the play itself is a story. You can base it on all this, a soup of the, all the best, the best ingredients put together back then in history. So if today in history, if you got all of the superheroes of today and took all of their best stories and put them together, that's the Jesus story type of thing. They put a play together of all the best ingredients of that time. All the myths and origins of that time, they put together.

>> Sorry.

>> Syncric. That's the word.

>> Okay. Yeah. So anyways, that's everything together.

>> Yeah, a lot of things, but I think, I think it was a stage play back then. That's why I think we can't prove they were physical people because they weren't. But I think the message is deep and profound and spiritual, but that's regardless. I mean, I know you're, we're just standing here proving if they existed or not. But, um, that source, I highly recommend. I mean, you check out too. Just archaic and the, it's called a crucifixion of the Typhonian. I mean, it, you would be right on point with it. You would, I think you would love it, to be honest.

>> But anyways, not. Yeah. Anyways, that's all I got. Um, just thought I'd share those things.

>> All right. Well, I mean, I, I'd agree for, uh, the most part there. I would agree with you for, for the most part for what you're saying there with what you're saying. And also, uh, on top of that, I'd like to make it clear that I do not agree with Ronald Reagan, just in case you were wondering.

>> Oh yeah. No, no biggie.

>> Yeah. But anyways, for the win one, everybody. For the win one.

>> For the win. Take it easy.

>> He had Bedtime for Bonzo, didn't he? In this movie with a [ __ ] like like orangutan or something or chimp. Uh, anyways. Anyways, uh, then again, our current president was in Home Alone 2 and saw a kid lost and, uh, didn't help him get home. Part for the course. Uh, let's see. Um, and we got $2. Zeno Lutre says, "I'm a queious soul. Call it queer lust." Uh, $5 from Bob Davis says, "Bro, the under 18 rule in general is a stupid rule because adults in general are stupid. Thanks, Bob Davis, for your input." Uh, let's see. $4.99 cents there from Ken the atheist. Uh, said, "Win one for the gimber originated from with Notre Dame football quef." Uh, N Rockner. Um, Reagan queefed him in the movie. Okay. All right. You thought you were clever there.

Anyways, uh, we've got, uh, Doris Diary. Doris Diary, I think. Uh, Doris, um, Doris Day. Yes. Hello.

>> Wow. Okay. Uh, yeah. What's going on?

>> Yes. I just found your live stream, live stream along the YouTube shots.

>> Huh?

>> Okay.

>> So, I was wondering, yes. So, I was really questioning, how do you know that Jesus and Paul never existed?

>> Uh, because their stories don't line up. No, their stories don't line up with contemporaries who were there at the time. Because I was wondering whether you were there in the time.

>> I was not a contemporary. Was and the story doesn't line up with that. And nowhere in the story does it say that it's been written by a contemporary. So the fact that a story, uh, is written, it doesn't say it's written by a contemporary and it doesn't line up with the time frame of of a contemporary. That's that's that's a problem. That's a bad, that's bad. It's not good.

>> All right. Thank you.

>> Uh, not a problem there, Doris. All right. If anyone else has got some evidence for Ju Paul, I want to hear it. He came up because he was seriously wondering if you were there. I, I don't know why. Seems like kind of a self-explanatory question there. Wait, Jiren wasn't alive 2,000 years ago? This is news to me. Yeah. I don't know. You lied to us. You should have said just said yes. CBJ looks good for over 2,000 years. $1.99 from the prototype says, "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this que." I'm not a huge fan of the qword being placed or interspersed into Reagan quotes. I think I, I'm it mixed feelings because I don't like that word and that kind of makes me or I don't like saying that word, I guess, but like it kind of makes me, um, I guess laugh at Reagan, I guess. But like I'm also having to read Reagan quotes. It's a long day. It's a long day. It's a long day, Sebastian. Long day. Uh, I would have gone with Okay. But alas, the manager. Are you married to the game? N. Yes. And also through the game. No. All right. Uh, let's see. Yep. Says, "Wait, if you weren't there, how did you write a book about it?" Yeah. Cool. All right. If anybody's got any evidence for Jesus or Paul, come on up. Otherwise, I'm going to go ahead and hop on down. Come on. This is your last chance. You're lucky I'm poor. I would just make you read horrible Reagan quotes. Oh, that sounds awful. Actually, someone get up there. I'm still at work. He got 25 wives, 16 husbands. If you want to join, Ken, that's funny. All right. Well, what's the mom count up to? Oh, it's not countable. It's not countable. So sad. De All right. Well, don't go through the roof. Oh, yeah. Through the roof. Thank you for hard work. Enjoy the rest of your day from Plent. Well, thank you very much, ma'am. I'm not going to say that, Jerry. Uh, there's more evidence Theophilus existed than Jesus. Yes, actually.

All right. I will see all of you lovely people later and some of you terrible people. Uh, yeah, I believe that's it. I believe that's it. So, uh, thank you to anybody and everybody who stuck around longer than 30 seconds. 35 second gang, rise up. And to over everybody over there on TikTok, um, peace out, girl scout, put me down for some Thin Mints. Uh, over on YouTube, thank you very, very much for the super chats and thank you to anybody, uh, who has become a member. That is awesome. Uh, we are working again on getting members, uh, content out there for you guys. Um, so thank you very much. Hopefully you guys enjoy that. Uh, I was also, and I know that I had floored the idea out before Matthew and I just have yet to actually record it, but we were going to record some, uh, stuff of us going over weird news. Not weird nudes, weird news, uh, for the week. We were just going to go over some different things and just kind of just kind of shoot the [ __ ] about some stuff that was going on. Just random stuff. It doesn't have anything to do with Jesus or Paul necessarily at all. Probably not at all. Uh, but it's at least just something else where it's just at least us. I guess if somebody wanted to, uh, see us just kind of banter about some different things. But if you just want some deeper dives and stuff like that, we do have some current videos up right now available only for members where we go over some of the one-star, uh, reviews, uh, there for our book on Amazon. So, if you want to check that out, you definitely can. But thank you very, very much for stopping by there on YouTube. You've been you and you have been Tube.

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Did Jesus Exist? Let's Discuss!

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