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The 5% of your product is open source, that is marketing. >> What has generated you the most satisfaction? I wonder if you are in the right place, you are in my territory. >> The market is a bit small, you have to grow extremely fast to manage to compound it well. >> I expect there to be more ambition in accelerating the sales cycle, growing this solution globally, making the most of this moment. >> Five people have expressed interest in investing for a total of almost 6 million euros. But who has so many? Hello everyone and welcome to this new episode of Ascensore, the last of the first season, this time with an audience. Make yourselves heard. >> [applause] >> Very, very good. We are hosted here at the Benny Spoons headquarters precisely to do this live episode, different from the usual. In fact, new startups will not be presented, but the best startups from previous episodes who will clash to the death in front of excellent judges. As usual, the startup will present itself, it will have 3 minutes, not five, to pitch. After that, we can ask questions, one each for our judges and also a couple of questions from the audience for those who want. After that, we will give our judgments. The judges will give their judgments to the startups, which they will not be able to replicate. As you know, judges, I would say introduce yourselves because you will be able to do it better than I can, in one sentence. >> Jacopo, Muston, Deptch and say hello. >> I like it. Hermetic >> Massimo Banzi, founder of Arduino, founder of something else that we are super modern and also an occasional Angel Investor. Let me add a word about Massimo Banzi, interviewed on my channel before he sold Arduino. He is truly great, he made the history of hardware and so I am very happy to have him among our judges today. >> You are too kind. Thank you. [applause] >> And he has an editorial project called Super Moderno, very cool, where he tells the history of tech. >> The bank transfer will arrive later >> Thank you very much. This afternoon. Exactly. >> Irene, now an honored guest, always present. Introduce yourself again. >> Irene Mingozzi, partner at Italian Founders Fund, a venture capital fund based in Milan. Of 100 million. We invest from pre-seed to Series A. >> How much do you invest >> in each startup? minimum half a million, up to 1 million, let's say, as a first investment, then also as follow-on, meaning as additional capital after our first investment, up to 5 million per startup, more or less. >> Marco >> Marco Lengo, founder of Jet HR, we try to eliminate bureaucracy from hiring, paying and managing employees >> and you have just raised a few million euros between Italy and the United States and especially from Italian [laughter] Founders Fund. An applause for our judges. [applause] Let's call the first startup, Belzebub, to the stage. Let's remind our audience that Belzebub was the very first startup to present on Ascensore. You have 3 minutes to pitch starting now. >> Hello everyone, I am Giorgio, I am the founding engineer of Belzebub. >> Hello everyone, I am Mario, founder and CEO of Belzebub. >> We have very little time, so I will go at machine speed. The problem of the last 40 years of cyber has been focusing on the external perimeter of IT infrastructures that we try to protect. The symptom of this problem is that once attackers get inside, however they manage to get in, there is zero visibility that defense teams have on what attackers are doing, and furthermore, they respond at human speed. In the past, an attacker faced an entire team of cybersecurity engineers. Now the same team of engineers faces completely AI-driven attackers, much faster, cheaper, and meaner. The ideal situation would be to provide defense teams with the same agents that attackers have, but this is easier said than done because while an attacker can make mistakes, if an Enterprise organization or even worse, a government entity makes a mistake and fails, this would have extremely serious and unavoidable repercussions at a media and legal level. We know, at Belzebub, we use AI as a new technology, but it corresponds to new vectors and a new attack surface, so we have developed a new approach to confront it. Our solution is composed of three layers and is a completely AI-native ecosystem at machine speed. The first is Arcangelo, and Arcangelo monitors and analyzes all vulnerabilities present both externally and internally in our infrastructures. Belzebub disseminates a network of sensors and traps that mimic real systems, such as databases, servers, and other services, including OT and everything in between, to trap and stop the attacker before they cause damage. Finally, Caronte is the brain behind all of this and behaves like a true malware analyst, providing the necessary information to then create a report, even for the authorities if necessary. Our technology was born as open source 4 years ago, and over these years we have gathered hundreds of supporters and users among top engineers and multinational companies that we all know. But what we have achieved has not only been popularity among a group of hackers, but above all the market feedback received from Enterprises, which has then guided the development of Belzebub's new features. At this moment, we have helped more than 12 organizations defend their digital assets, including Italian government agencies, one of the largest airports in Italy, and one of the largest providers of critical telecommunications infrastructure in Italy. Our philosophy is to bring 24/7 Machine Speed Response to all companies that need it. In the next 12 months, we want to expand both into the rest of Europe and into the United States. We know we can do it because the product rocks, given that the entire founding team is composed solely of computer engineers. We are trying to raise 10 million, we have already raised 3 million in seed, and we want a hand to continue our go-to-market aggressively. I didn't understand who you sell to, meaning who is your target and what is the sales process. We are split 50/50 between Enterprise and government agencies. We are dual-use for defense. Obviously, based on the module, we try to adapt as much as possible to our interlocutor. Primarily, they are huge multinationals or entities, especially in Italy. >> So it's an enterprise sales process. >> Yes. First of all, we do a scan with Arcangelo, which performs penetration testing and reveals the vulnerabilities already present on the perimeter. From that, the need to protect oneself internally arises, and we also introduce products like Belzebub and Caronte. >> How long does the sales process take? It takes between 3 and 6 months. >> So, you do open source, you have 2000 stars on GitHub, all those logos, but on the other hand, I imagine a completely global community, contributors from all over the world, etc., but the first contracts you mentioned are in Italy, so that data says more about a network sale, meaning a sale that comes from your network, from introductions by your investors, from your presence on the territory. >> How do these two things relate? Meaning, why did you invest in building a global community if your sales motion is mainly in Italy? >> Well, actually, we are already closing with two clients based in the United States, >> Okay? >> And we mostly started in Italy precisely because we had a team of Angel Investors who helped us, so to speak, with smart money, and they helped us a bit with the go-to-market. All the other clients were acquired outside of the Angel Investors, and they are mostly coming in precisely thanks to the open-source funnel. We didn't mention it because we didn't have much time to do so. And the open source is already used by Anthropic, we have the same module, it can be used to verify who bypasses the guardrails in the agent world, and they are also contributing to this module. >> But from Anthropic as a company or from someone within Anthropic? The infrastructure engineer from the MSP section. >> Okay. Like a clever move there, >> but from Anthropic we obtained unlocked models. >> Yes, they removed the guardrails for us. No, I'm interested in understanding if you want to continue doing open source, or if it will disappear somewhat in favor of pure profit. >> Well, we can say that Massimo [laughter] has seen few of these open source questions, let's say. [laughter] It's a good question, and open source at the moment is about 5% of the product we offer, but it's that 5% that provides security, being the only framework that is objectively installed within the company, [clears throat] it provides the security of being audited by hundreds of thousands of people and that what you bring in is secure. >> Okay, so it's marketing. >> Actually, our marketing comes from new malware research. >> No, of course, of course. >> But yes, it's a component, yes. [laughter] If 5% of your product is open source, that's cool marketing. Thank you, though, it's nice. No, I like your product, but the open source is marketing. >> Do you like open source more? >> I don't know, you tell me. [laughter] I ruined my liver for 20 years to monetize open source ethically, sorry, enough, I'll be quiet. [laughter] Thank you very much. Giacomo. >> What are you testing to speed up the sales cycle? >> That's a good question. What we've found ourselves up against is the fact that Enterprises have long cycles simply because there are many people, many decision-makers who have to make the same decision. To speed it up, we are creating various partnerships both in Italy and in the rest of Europe because, having existing contracts with these companies, it's easier to reach our product through these providers. >> What kind of partnerships? Commercial partnerships with the major MSPs and MSSPs at the European and Italian level. >> To give you more context, we initially went directly to clients where we received feedback on the product and managed to iterate and pivot towards the ideal solution, and now that the product can, so to speak, sell itself, we have decided to activate resale channels. We still have room for one or two more questions from the audience. The first one to raise their hand can ask it. Ah, we have a hand-raiser. >> I was asked to have a question ready, so here I am. [laughter] No, regarding marketing, one of the best solutions I'm seeing is cybersecurity professionals who hack us and then tell us, "These are your inefficiencies?" In my opinion, it's about finding very strong problems that you are then much more inclined to solve rather than saying, "Buy our cybersecurity solution." Have you ever tested things like that? Without going into illegal territory, of course. >> Yes. We analyzed one of the three strongest threat actors at the moment, called PCP. We were the first to analyze it in 2025. Our research ended up on Widz, Sans, and other very large corporations on this niche of Cyber. Three days ago, we found a supply chain vulnerability on Visual Studio Code that allowed us to infect all 40 million developers who use Visual Studio Code. But obviously, being a company that does ethical hacking, we disseminated how we fixed it and how we performed vulnerability disclosure for that vulnerability. Our core business, excuse me, core marketing is precisely this: we do research, and as Giorgio said earlier with Arcangelo, we are able to find vulnerabilities first, which allow us to create that need in clients. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> We have another question in the front row. >> Yes, I have a perhaps naive question. What happens when your product encounters an MITM attack? Our white paper is precisely called "What Happens After MITM?" And I invite you to read it because the answer is Deception, which is the new wave of cybersecurity. Imagine having a hundred thousand agents trying to break through a wall. The solution is not to make the wall stronger, but to channel these agents into a labyrinth where they get lost and lose their effectiveness. >> Thank you very much for the questions, and if you are ready, it's time to give your feedback. I like what you do. It's very interesting that when MITM attacks happen, if you don't make mistakes, you could make a lot of money because there will be the problem of how to be on the other side. Clearly, as an advocate of open source, I always get a little triggered when someone uses that word, but in my opinion, the product is interesting. Perhaps at times, it's not understood that well from the website, so I would work a bit on the external communication part, but it's interesting. Well done. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. When you build a startup, numbers are not cold Excel sheets; they are your income, your losses, and your deadlines. Every move tells a story of what you are building. Conto is the business account designed for startups. You open it 100% online in a few minutes. You have an Italian IBAN, you create physical or virtual cards, each with spending limits set per person. You can upload invoices directly from the app and have integrations with useful tools like Zapier, Notion, Google Spreadsheets, and even AI tools like ChatGPT and Cloud. And if you have liquidity in the account, it passively generates interest. For new customers, the remuneration is even 4% for the first 2 months and then 2%, without having to open dedicated accounts or do anything strange. You simply have to use the account. And this is precisely what convinced us at Ascensore to use Conto. It's a serious but simple account, without bureaucracy. And when you have a growing startup, simplicity is worth gold. So discover now how Conto can help you manage your business. Go to the links in the comments and description. Thanks to Ascensore, you will get 3 months of free subscription on any Conto plan and 4% annual interest on your liquidity for the first two months. Now you have no excuse not to try Conto. Promo code for three free months on any plan: Ascensore X3. And now, back to the finale. >> It's a current topic, and I expect there to be more ambition in accelerating the sales cycle, in growing this solution globally, and therefore making the most of this moment. >> Well, [clears throat] in my opinion, since the first time I met you, we spoke, your growth has been enormous, wonderful. So, in reality, if this is the trend, we are in an excellent position. >> They even hired a person just to do pitches >> well, it works, but certainly, both in terms of how you tell the product and the team has grown, so the trend is excellent. I agree that I would try to aim for more global ambition from the start, and therefore understand precisely who your ICP is, meaning who your ideal customer is, who might not be the small Italian segment that might be your testing ground, but selling to an enterprise in the United States where you have a certain type of competition is very different from >> having something in Italy, you know, it's a different job. >> Of course. Of course. Thank you for the feedback. >> Thank you. I don't understand anything about it, but from the outside, I have similar feedback: I wonder if you are in the right place. Typically, I would say you should be in Silicon Valley, no? If the clients are there, >> no? He's right, he should be much earlier, you should go there tomorrow. >> It must be said that I met them last time in San Francisco. >> Ah, good, then. >> So the last time we were in San Francisco, so >> Thank you. Thank you very much for making yourselves available again. Thank you very much, everyone. Thank you, >> thank you, thank you. [applause] >> It still takes a certain caliber, a certain courage to make yourselves available twice in a row. The first time we trick them because, well, they come, they treat us well, but the second time means they are really determined. Let's call the second startup to the stage. Let's call the guys from Skyu to the stage. [applause] Hello guys, let's see what's there. This mysterious object. Oh! >> Oh! [singing] Ah! Attention! >> Wow! >> You were terrible, can we say that? [laughter] Cameras, >> huh? You did it completely the wrong way. Anyway, thank you very much. >> Can everyone see it? >> I'll pull it up. >> Pull it up, come on. >> I'll do it myself, if I can, you do it. >> You have 3 minutes to pitch starting now. Hello everyone, I'm Mirko Franzoni >> Niccolo, Brother friend. >> We are two aerospace engineers and co-founders and CTO of Skyu. Skyu was born with a mission: to make critical logistics autonomous and fast, to save thousands of lives every year. The idea of Skyu was born a long time ago. When I was 12, I lost my father due to a sudden cardiac arrest. And like my father, every year 400,000 people die in Europe because emergency services arrive too slowly. With average response times exceeding 15 minutes, the survival rate drops to just 8%. The problem is time, and today time costs human lives, but speed is our solution. To help institutions and healthcare companies intervene faster, we operate and 3D print an IVOL drone, capable of carrying a first-aid kit equipped with an AED and a video-audio link that allows the emergency operator to guide the lay rescuer in real-time. Upon a 112 call, our drone autonomously brings the first-aid kit to the emergency scene even before an ambulance can depart. Furthermore, we are defining our operational procedures directly with the Italian Civil Aviation Authority. With our solution, we can reduce intervention times by 74%, increasing the survival rate from 8% to over 60%. All this while saving over €30,000,000 per patient in intensive care alone. Our market is worth 2 billion between Italy and Switzerland for first-aid and medical transport drones, and the competitive landscape in this market is still very broad, with Everdrone as the only direct competitor for first-aid drones. But where we distinguish ourselves is clear: we are twice as fast, we have 10 times the range. But how do we make money in this market? Our main business model is operational leasing, inclusive of piloting and maintenance, generating recurring revenue and long-term contracts. In just 7 months since Skyu's founding, we have moved very quickly. We have validated our product with over 70 companies in the healthcare and logistics sector, generating over 1 million euros in quote requests and nine LOIs signed between Italy, Switzerland, Finland, Portugal, Greece, and Nigeria. But we haven't stopped at emergencies. With a single platform, we instantly change payload, going from a first-aid kit to a temperature-controlled pod for medical transport or a telemedicine pod. But why did we start with emergencies? Precisely because for the delivery of our first-aid kits, in addition to having a huge impact on people, we can perform last-mile delivery in complex urban environments where even commercial giants like Amazon are still struggling. Furthermore, we are a very young team with solid technical experience in aerospace, supported by advisors in startups and healthcare. Also, with Project Europe, we are opening our round, we will open our round in September, and with the help of all of you, we can revolutionize critical logistics and wait for help to arrive sooner. >> Thank you very much. [applause] >> Do you have any questions by any chance? Clearly, when I see hardware, I'm immediately happy because I like it, but I wanted to try to understand why what you do is very interesting, but objectively, in my opinion, the regulatory part is tough. I see you operate in Switzerland; I live in Switzerland, and they are very strict about drones. I'd like to understand better what strategies you have to manage this part, and then also, the regulations on these autonomous drones are still very much in development, so I wanted to understand how you're navigating this. >> The advantage is that in recent years, the speed at which regulation is moving has increased significantly. We have developed software that allows us to generate routes in real-time for last-mile delivery, minimizing ground risk, infrastructure risk, and so on. With this software, we went to ENAC, we spoke with ENAC, we organized a technical table directly with the head of innovation, we explained what we want to do, the impact we want to have, and we are obtaining ENAC's support to launch our experimentation and our services throughout Italy. The idea is this: first aid allows us to fly in emergencies, so it allows us to fly over populations at risk, which would not be possible otherwise. The idea is to start with what we are doing with pre-set, pre-approved routes for the first three months, then for the next three months, random routes, validating the software, and after these 6 months of testing under ENAC's supervision, we will conduct the first experiments on people. From there, after 18 months of experimentation, we will obtain the certification. We will definitely have to wait after a year of experimentation. The certification allows you to open your routes without having to go through the usual steps with ENAC. We will do the same thing then and bring it to Switzerland because all of Europe is under EASA regulation. When you say autonomous, meaning you set the flight plan, but then the drone has the ability to see and decide how to move, meaning if it encounters an obstacle you haven't foreseen, does it have the ability to manage these situations autonomously? >> We do a pre-mission contingency, so we analyze all the surroundings, basically including electrical lines, buildings, so that this part is not needed. What has generated the most satisfaction in the last month of learning? >> Tough to answer [clears throat] you. >> You go. >> I'll go. What has made us most proud in these last few months? Certainly Project Europe. Four weeks for sure. Project Europe, which is a huge validation for us. >> What? Project >> Project Europe, which is a huge validation for us that will help us a lot in the coming years, and certainly also the fact of speaking directly with the general directors of various ASLs (Local Health Authorities) across Italy, fortunately through our network contacts, we have direct introductions, and seeing in their eyes that they believe in the solution and that it is a solution that can truly save many lives. >> And very likely, from my point of view as well, we have reached the point where entities are starting to come to us to request the use of our service. For example, in Helsinki, we were asked last week, they contacted us directly to open an operational service by April 2027, without us doing anything. So we are starting to be known, very likely also thanks to the Project Europe network, but it's an excellent sign. Here, however, is one of those cases where I would start from a single geography, [laughter] meaning either that one you know best, in the sense that surely, meaning starting from Italy, Switzerland, and Finland, for example, you have completely different complexities, completely different regulations, different interlocutors, and so I find it a bit complex. But actually, my question was more about who today has such a strong need that they are willing to pay? Meaning, I understand very well the impact you have from the point of view of doing good for the world, okay? And I like that very much, but it's not always connected to a willingness to put down budget and pay quickly, and let's say, no, the classic burning pain that a company or a hospital has, whatever it may be. Who do you have to convince and why? Meaning, what, besides doing good for the world, drives this person, this individual to decide to bet on you and pay for your service. >> There are two important targets in healthcare. So at a purely healthcare level, today a patient who is saved after 10-15 minutes has an intensive care stay that exceeds 20 days. An average intensive care stay costs €3,000,000 per day to a hospital and healthcare entity. So that's the first point. Secondly, there's the whole issue of pensions, the fact that most heart attacks occur in people between 35 and 55 years old, people who are at their peak social contribution, and thirdly, there's the issue of overcrowding in emergency rooms, where with a device that not only carries a defibrillator but also a first-aid kit including telemedicine, it significantly reduces the excessive demand on emergency services. On the other hand, clearly, delivery costs, where an autonomous drone fleet is significantly cheaper than a normal driver. Earlier, if I understood correctly, you said the authorization process takes 18 months. >> 3 months of defined point-to-point, 3 months of undefined point-to-point with undefined endpoints, and subsequently, the experimentation on real people begins, meaning 12 months, and after 12 months, you can request the certification that allows you to open routes more quickly. >> Does a potential competitor have to go through the same process, or are you paving the way, and then it becomes faster for everyone? No, they go through the same process. >> So, in effect, you have a 12-month advantage over anyone else. >> Yes, in addition to working directly with ENAC, which is a relevant factor, having this direct contact where otherwise, when someone applies for a Sora, for an operation, they might wait up to 6 months for preliminary approval. >> Thank you. >> Are there any questions from the audience? Have you considered including insurance companies as partners/clients for your solution? Because in cases of private healthcare, meaning the patient has to pay for expenses, I imagine it could be an advantage to have an insurance policy cover the possibility of having your service in case of cardiac arrest or one of your other scenarios. Yes, we have considered this solution, especially for the Swiss market, and it's a solution that integrates well not only in case of cardiac arrest but also for the telemedicine aspect that will be possible in the coming years via drone. I think especially a family with children would be motivated to pay for private insurance to have such a higher survival rate. There's another question over there in the back. >> How do you manage the procurement process, meaning how do ASLs and hospitals buy? Do you participate in tenders, calls for proposals? Currently, we go through direct affiliation for amounts under €140,000. Now, by also patenting our emission management software, we can further increase this maximum of €140,000, and subsequently, of course, for important tenders, for significant projects, we will go through public bidding. >> And can you be included in those? By when do you think you will be able to be included? Do you consider partners with whom to participate in these tenders, calls for proposals? Have you already identified them? >> Currently, we have several partners who allow us to offer the best possible service. Our partner who creates the vertiports for us, who is already accustomed to participating in public tenders for such contracts. On the other hand, our partner who provides us with the temperature-controlled kit for medical transport. >> Have you had time to think, so judges, please give us your judgments. >> Well, certainly I would have appreciated knowing a bit more about the content of these LOIs you mentioned. What are the characteristics? LOIs of what promises? What are these promises you've made to yourselves, given that you're building them around the world, and also that the relationship with the regulatory body is something that creates a competitive advantage for you as a company and not simply something you have to do to start playing, to start selling. Well, anyway, I like what you do. Then, of course, when there's hardware, I'm always happy, and I'm a bit surprised that this object doesn't have the capacity, let's say, locally, to navigate unforeseen events. It's interesting that you manage to plan it. This part leaves me a bit... Well, then the regulatory part is a pain in the neck. Your investors will have to have some patience because it will take time, and your forecasts will certainly slip a bit, not because you are incapable, but because these things always... but anyway, well done, a good context, a good idea. >> Very good. I agree with what he's saying, but I see the time as very long, perhaps a bit longer than a fund like ours has the patience to wait, but there are funds specifically for deep tech or hardware. I already see that doing hardware in a regulated context has many, let's say, layers of complexity. You perhaps added some more, like going into more geographies, but I have the impression that you are still in a phase where there are still many, if not pivots, then many decisions, many crossroads to take, that you haven't yet landed on the definitive form your business will have, let's put it that way, but certainly hardware, regulation, selling to a public healthcare market in multiple geographies, and >> all the elements to be >> a bomb, to be a bomb, because you've done something very good, but certainly, you know, complex, complex. It's a good challenge. Yes, >> in my opinion, it's fantastic, and it's also cool to have these 12 months of advantage over competitors, and clearly, without seeing, without understanding more about the revenue growth curve, what customers say, it's difficult for me to understand well based on this information if it works. So, in a pitch, you should insist a lot on that, right? Meaning, in the end, you can tell me about the hardware, but the only thing that matters is if the customer buys it, and I would have spent 50% of the time talking about that. And if I can give a small piece of advice, and I don't want to offend, but the way you told the part about saving human lives, >> it seemed a bit fake, right? Meaning, I don't know, it seemed a bit put on, right? A bit too pushed. >> It turned me off a bit, no? It made it seem a bit like a scam. >> Apart from the percentage, >> I don't know, meaning, tell me what you do, and then maybe the reason, but I wouldn't put it so >> centrally. Thank you, >> thank you very much for your judgments and for your questions. An applause for Skyu. [applause] We are on stage as the third and last startup of this episode, the last episode of this first season. Hello Elsa. >> Welcome. You have 3 minutes starting now. >> 5 years ago, nobody asked you about Revolut. Banks themselves had existed for centuries. In a few years, the same will happen with pension funds. Among friends, people will say: "Have you already done Elsa?" The problem isn't that pension funds don't exist; they've been around for decades, and in Italy, there are over 100. The problem is that even today in Italy, two out of three workers don't have a pension fund. That's why we created Elsa, the first pensiontech in Italy. With the pension system under pressure, supplementary pensions are increasingly central, but the market is fragmented, not very accessible, and with very low participation rates. And here lies the opportunity. In Italy alone, we are talking to 40 million citizens, of whom 24 million are workers, and 75 billion euros per year in potential savings. A huge market that already exists with billions of euros available to people, money that people aren't going to get. We have broken this glass ceiling. We have launched the first end-to-end platform for online comparison and subscription of pension funds. But our competitive advantage is the go-to-market. People discover Elsa through content, social media, word-of-mouth, they open their pension fund online, and they bring Elsa into their workplace. And so a single user becomes the access point for an entire company. This is our B2C2B flywheel. The model is simple: the platform is free for the user, and we monetize through subscription fees and recurring revenue on assets under management. But the goal isn't to be present at a single moment. Elsa is your reference point for pensions from birth to death. By 2026, we will exceed 1 million in revenue. We will reach the first 12,000 customers, three times last year's number, with an embedded value per customer between €1500 and €2000 over 15 years. People choose Elsa because they trust the brand, with our 250,000 followers, the over 50,000 people we've met in companies, and our 4.9 stars on Trustpilot out of over 1300 reviews, we haven't built a community or a media outlet, we've built an audience that trusts us when it comes to making decisions about their future. We are building the player that will define pensions in Italy. That's why we are raising capital to accelerate technology, growth, and operations with the goal of reaching 200,000 customers by 2025 and the first billion in assets under management, because banks existed even before Revolut, and we are doing with pensions what Revolut did with banking, until the day when among friends people will say, "Have you already done Elsa?" >> Thank you very much. [applause] [cheering] Judges, is anyone ready with some questions? >> Anna, >> yes, >> even if it sometimes slips out, let's say. Hello Elsa. You have a compound-based business, that's your secret sauce. >> And what can stop it? Who can stop this growth of yours? >> Who can stop our growth? Ignorance. Only ignorance, because it makes no sense not to have a pension fund, it makes no sense not to build what people need to build for their future. What needs to be dismantled is precisely the lack of awareness, because when you are confused, you don't understand anything, you don't trust, you don't act, and therefore you postpone. So yesterday I received an objection, they told me, "Well, with all those millions of workers, what do you say?" Meaning, "Ah, I'm making an app, so millions of people will take it." No, I'm sure that all those 40 million Italian citizens, if they truly knew how it works, would do it. That's my answer. >> Can you show the slide with the market with the TAM? A few questions. >> Please. >> The 75 billion. >> Ah, perfect. [laughter] >> That 31, which is almost half, are you saying it's not a market that exists, that I hope I can convince Italians to invest additional contributions, and therefore Yes. >> Okay. So that 31 doesn't exist today. Today the market is the 24 plus >> Exactly. Exactly. No, today the market is actually the yellow TFR, Red to Funds. So out of 32 billion euros per year of TFR, only eight go into pension funds, and 12 billion in voluntary contributions. How were the 75 calculated? Essentially by taking the entire, let's say, by taking the base of the >> I understood, I understood with different income brackets, assuming additional theoretical contributions. >> And today your market is the 24 because you are trying to convince the 24 to invest in funds. >> Yes, >> you monetize from that. >> Yes, absolutely. But also from voluntary contributions, which include employer contributions, because TFR typically unlocks additional contributions that are also convenient for the company. Done immediately, the myth. >> You are in my territory. [laughter] >> Attention, >> I know those 75 billion well, they are not your market. That is the total value of the assets. How much do you monetize? >> I >> a fund monetizes 1%. It depends because you 0.1, 0.2 >> it depends on the fund. On average >> on average, subscription fees, so at the opening of the position, a fee that on average is between 50 and 150 euros. These can be higher than 150, just to give you an idea, but let's say that today it covers the CAC and more. Okay? Then there's the asset under management fee, it's basis points, yes, it's exactly 0.1 in the worst case, but we have agreements, so on average our plan stands with 20-30 basis points, so 0.2-0.3%. Which, however, means that your market is, if you had 100% of the market, you would have 75 million in revenue. >> No, every year it's 75 billion. Those are monies that can enter a pension fund every year and create the mass on which returns are calculated, and therefore the total managed, and on which I'm giving you too much information. I'm not kidding. >> No, no, [laughter] I'm following you well. on which every year there's the fee, which is a fee that is not borne by the client, in the sense that it's inherent in the financial product, and automatically, with my model, I'm a broker, it monetizes a part of that fee. Okay? >> So let's say you manage to get 0.20% >> Yes. >> "Let's say that 31 billion materializes." >> Yes. >> So you have, if you had 100% of the market, you would have 150 million in revenue again per year. >> Yes. Plus the subscription fees, so it depends on how many you produce. Those are >> those are absolutely one-off, but the >> 600% of the market, you no longer have that. >> I'll turn it around for you: if I reach >> You've finished your follow-up questions. I'll ask one of mine because I want to understand the same thing. [laughter] >> Meaning you can add 7 million, if you had 10% of the market, you would add 7 million in revenue per year. >> No, if you had, if you had one Italian out of ten >> which is a lot. >> If you had one Italian out of ten >> you would add 7-10 million in revenue per year. >> 7 million, 7-10 million in revenue. No, but it depends. The first year >> you add them >> in the first year. Yes, but those 7-10 are already 7-10 for the next year, and this is the mechanism that's a bit difficult to understand, but it's magical because it's compounded, >> so the mass already makes mass for the next year. Okay? At a certain point, if you stop acquisitions, meaning the beautiful thing is that in our 2030 plan, you stop acquisitions, obviously that's not the goal, but hypothetically, my best favorite slide, even if it's not here, is the one where acquisitions stop in 2030 with over 200,000 positions, and you make an ARR of 15 million without doing anything, with a low management cost because the pension fund position, after you've opened it, fortunately has few, albeit very important, management moments in the user's life, and >> so this is the magic. >> Thank you >> you're welcome. >> The audience has questions. Why limit yourselves only to the pension part and not do, like a normal robo-advisor, the entire spectrum of investment, from high to medium risk to low risk long-term? Because we are in a country where the problem is cultural, so our choice was extreme verticality, apart from the great passion for pensions, so the entire world of pensions in itself. I always describe pensions as a little house that needs pillars to stand. You give money to INPS to fuel the first pillar, INPS gives you back, let's say, the pillar is not
cracked. So, uh, the concept is, to come to your question, why not dedicate yourself to something else? Because it's a crucial thing, of which we are very passionate, of which we have a very strong mission of impact, meaning it's very important to us. The real satisfaction in the morning when I wake up is knowing that all the dozens of open positions from the day before, I have potentially saved them tens of thousands of euros for their future. Then this also brings with it another series of welfare needs, such as very specific insurance needs related to welfare. With the same money you give to INPS for retirement, it gives you something back even if you die. And clearly, this is another welfare need that is very close, it's almost a logical consequence. So the choice was vertical due to passion, due to the cultural problem, because it's not even educational, it's cultural. When I had to choose the severance pay, I called my mother. It's not going well. >> I have a question. You mentioned Revolut earlier. What prevents Revolut, which already has decent operations in Italy, from doing the same thing? Do you have a technological advantage that prevents them from doing it tomorrow? Well, the technological advantage is certainly, it takes time, but hypothetically, I imagine that a Revolut could put a team on it to, let's say, compete technologically. I repeat a bit the positioning that we have, let's say, that I shared with you in the pitch, that is, verticality, being the reference brand, people trust us because we are the ones for welfare, and we are entering a giant market. I would be upset if Revolut entered, I tell you the truth, because when I say 40 million people, it's truly 40 million people, so I almost feel like saying that it could legitimize our positioning even more, but, and when I find a potential competitor, I always tell them, we are heading in the same direction. Now, it's not that I'm happy if Revolut opens tomorrow and puts a button, but guys, a button is not enough to make a person open a pension fund. You need to make them understand what they are doing and make them understand that they are in a safe place. And we have worked a lot on this. >> But you answered well. Let's see what these judges say. >> But [clears throat] it's a question because I don't know very well how these things work, uh, but earlier you were talking about the fact that you somehow have to enter companies to do it, or can a person simply download the app, download it, and activate it? No, it's great because I don't have to enter companies, but I do enter because more than half of our users are private sector employees who put that beautiful severance pay into their pension fund, and automatically I enter companies because I have to get in touch with their HR office. So, on one hand, since our users like us very much, in fact, I greet them, [laughter] I enter because they bring me in as an ambassador. But that's not the only point. The point is that it's a mess for the person to understand welfare and solve it, and it's also a mess for the company. So, as I bring them in because I have to register the company, manage the severance pay, automatically what happens is that I also have to solve their welfare problem. Uhm, we already had a very natural phenomenon, B2B inbound. Now we are covering it, we are also going outbound, but the best thing is that we have 700 subscriptions per month, we have 700 leads, let's say that not all 700 are companies, but 500 or 500 company leads to whom I bring, now the B2B product for the welfare part will be launched next month. >> Let's start with the feedback. In my opinion, the market is very interesting, I agree that it's a bit small or you have to grow extremely fast to be able to compound it well, because as you said, if you get 700 per month, meaning if you have to manage to get at least 20, well, it's something that needs to scale very, very fast. I like the fact that you are vertical, it's much more almost, you know, brand, culture, all that part which is long, but then you become a love brand, you enter people's minds. My feedback is a bit similar to what we said last time, which is what else can be done, besides doing this little piece here, meaning the big play where you enter people's hearts through this thing, you are No, I know, I know, you can't answer, but it's the question I would have asked you, but, you know, in my opinion, you really need a play like, "Okay, I enter, I put my foot in the door, and then I sell them everything." No. >> The phrase from the pitch was: you are the reference point for your welfare from birth to death. A child must have a pension fund. 10% of our clients are children. Okay. And when they take over the first. I don't have to answer. >> I'll let you answer because I'm a terrible presenter. I told you my question. Uh, my fault. Go ahead, answer. >> No, but this thing about children is super cool. Yes, it is, and by the way, it fell into our laps because when mom and dad realize it, opening the fund is immediate. >> When that child becomes a worker, takes over the TFR2 form, they have to take over their welfare again. When they go abroad, they open a VAT number, they open a pension fund in Arcassa because they are an engineer, and then instead they return to IMS, and then they go abroad, and then they return, and they have to sort out their situation. They have three funds, welfare in Italy, welfare in the UK, and they have to sort out all this mess. >> Yes, yes, yes. >> This is Elsa. >> Uh, but that's not the pitch you made. >> Elsa is your reference point from birth to death. >> Perfect. >> Thank you. [laughter] >> What anxiety. >> Okay, there are still a couple of feedbacks. >> You can't answer me. [laughter] You've already answered too much. >> In my opinion, you are very good, and all that is bureaucracy, beautiful, and you kill a piece of bureaucracy. Uhm, the fact that with such a large market share, meaning if you have 10% of the market, you add 7-10 million ARR to your business every year, means the market is small, right? Which is fine for starting. I wonder why you don't become a pension fund and thus make 10x what you earn. >> Would you like to answer? You won't be able to. [laughter] Anyway, to answer, we would become a pension fund but [clears throat] not now. >> the first episode >> and I really liked the fact that this idea of becoming a love brand, the attention also to the design part, the experience, I liked that. I don't understand much about this, by the way. I know you can't answer, but do this: if the name is inspired by Elsa Fornero, and you know that I did a brand test with a twenty-five-year-old who works for me, and she said, "Who is Elsa Fornero?" So, you know, it was, uh, oh, you know, poor thing. Anyway, extra points because you are the only female founder here, so >> you've made a good fit and well done [applause] >> and I would have liked to know a little more about how you conquer this market, specifically how you compete in this market, because the machine you described seems perfect, and I'm sure that every day you are there asking yourselves questions about how you compete. This would have helped us. >> Thank you very much. >> Thank you all. [applause] >> But it's not over yet because there is, let's say, the reckoning. Let's see what the others said and we'll find out who has virtually, but who knows, collected the most. In order of entry, I call Belzeb to the stage to reveal what happened behind the scenes. Applause for Belzebub. So, the data man told me this. Some people said that no, they would not invest in your project because it needs more focus on differentiation compared to other similar-looking solutions. Take it and bring it home. Five people expressed interest in investing for a total of almost 6 million euros. Go look for them. [laughter] >> 5 million, but in maybe. So if almost 6 million said yes, I'll put it in, 5 million in maybe, but who are those who would want references and further details on the plan. Go look for them. >> Hello everyone. Thank you. But >> thank you very much. Let's call Skyu to the stage. Here too, some people said no, they would not invest. The regulatory aspect is scary, especially because it's necessary in multiple countries, so partly agreeing with what our judges were saying, but some people are interested, one is still maybe for a good 1.1 million in potential investments. Congratulations. >> Thank you. >> Thank you very much. [applause] Another round of applause for Elsa. Hooray! >> We have one person who wrote that they would not invest, but thanks you because you just made them open a pension fund. >> Fantastic. That's the goal. >> That's the goal. We then have some maybes, what's missing? Conversion metrics and a great pitch, huge market, large community. So it's a maybe that compliments you. >> Thank you. >> We also have here 1.5 million in money between yes and maybe. >> Thank you very much. Thank you all. Hooray! >> Guys! Well, and I absolutely thank first of all the audience who came from home to listen to us and will return perhaps in the rain if it's still raining. Thank you very much. I thank Leggano. >> I thank today's judges, excellent judges who have lent themselves to this experience. Thank you very much. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you to all the people who followed us from home from the first episode of Ascensore until today. I am very happy to conclude this first improved season this way with all the feedback received from our community, such as "Why don't you invest during the episodes?" Attention, we are working to be able to do exactly like Shark Tank, registered trademark. Subscribe, thank you very much. [applause] >> [applause] >> I have never drunk from this bottle of Tony for Bottles. I was very thirsty, I made a mistake not drinking. You near the microphone because [laughter] the audio is a bit complicated. How's the air? Did we make it? It's very hot with my children. >> We are evaluating which law firm to use to sue you. >> Very good. Yes. You have definitely won the award. Pronounce the words. Very good, so that it's understood [laughter] throughout the room. It's saliva. Since I'm losing saliva, I discovered that if I speak a little more clearly, it's perfect for 3 minutes. It was just music to my ears. If any of you want, you can also invest directly, you say "But how is this possible?" They tell me no. I can't ask you to invest because otherwise it would be soliciting investment. >> They'll arrest you. >> They tell me it's illegal, [laughter] so no. I have never advised you to do it. Is there anyone drunk among you? Okay, [laughter] >> these are interesting total of >> Okay. >> Okay. Aren't you curious to find out who [laughter] will await us in a future, stronger, more improved season? No, you can't say. Yeah.