“FBI Still Hiding Epstein Worst Secret” Death Magic, Blackmail & Deep Politics | Kris Millegan

The basic story is, is, is, is my dad. I mean, that's how come I'm doing this. This is how come I'm here.

"Oh, really? Because of your dad."

"Yeah. Yeah."

"Okay."

He inspired all this stuff.

"Well, he he was a spook. And you know, most of the time I was just a little kid, you know, and uh dad one time um came to me and said uh uh what do you think of the Vietnam War? This was like in the uh oh about '65, something like that. And I gave him a flip little teenage answer. I says, 'You got a sack of hand grenades and some rice patties, and you go throw the hand grenades to win it for the good guys wearing the white hats.' I mean, I'd been raised on John Wayne and World War II, all my uncles and my dad was in World War II. So, um, he he said, 'Uh, we have to have a talk.' And I said, 'Okay.' And just went on with my life. And then about the the day before my 20th birthday, uh we came to the house. I figure, you know, we were going to have a, you know, some cake and ice cream and stuff like that. And I get there and my dad says, 'It's time to have that talk.' And I kind of remembered what he was saying. And then uh he had a a friend of his from Vanderbilt there, Dr. D.F. Fleming. And they took me into my little brother's room and sat me down. And dad looked at me and said, 'The Vietnam War is about drugs. There's these secret societies behind it.' And I'm thinking, 'Okay, dad's talking about the mafia.' This was like 1969. And um and then he said, 'And communism is all a sham. These same secret societies are behind it. It's all a big game.' And at that point in time, I thought my daddy was nuts, okay? Because the root, you know, I'd been stuffed under the desk cuz the Ruskies were going to bomb us. And so it just, you know, it it didn't compute. And so, and then they started talking, they started telling me all about my dad's intelligence career."

"Who's they who started telling you?"

"Uh, my dad and this professor from Vanderbilt."

"And which had had never really been mentioned in the house before. I mean, the only time I remember I was like 8 years old and we were living in Nashville and my older brother and older sister, we were standing up talking outside the living room in this hallway and my older brother says, 'I think dad works for the CIA.' And, you know, I was 8 years old. I was into baseball. You know, didn't didn't really mean much to that. He said, 'That's how come we went overseas.' And I, 'Huh?' you know, and so this was the first time that because it had never been mentioned in the house. Okay. And uh so they tell me all about his intelligence career which he had started as an 18-year-old kid. Uh he'd been an exchange student to China in 1936. Okay. And uh at that point in time it was the State Department just told him casually to you know keep your eyes and ears open especially about what the Japanese are doing. And then um he left Shanghai uh a week before the Japanese bombed it 1937 and went across uh went up to Vladivostok and went across the Trans-Siberian Railway uh to Vienna and went to Switzerland and ended up in uh Berlin and then to uh uh London where he was at the World Council of Churches with the Dulles brothers and they had a big conference there. And then dad came back to uh school and he graduated in 1939 and he was accepted at a school in Switzerland for international relations and but there was something going on in '39 in in Europe and there was a war going on and so he didn't go get there. He got as far as the basement of the Library of Congress under Archibald MacLeish and they gave him a desk and they said, 'We want you to become an expert on the Philippines.' And so dad started, you know, studying the Philippines. He used to tell a story about how the dad, the guy right next to him, um, and he helped him was starting what is now known as the CIA World Factbook. They started on 8x5 and and the bigger cards creating this uh you know list of of facts about all the countries in the world. And then uh Donovan walked in and he started an organization called Coordination of Information, COI. And then COI morphed into the OSS >> and dad was there working for the OSS. And then uh he got drafted and OSS said, 'Great. You're going to we're you're still going to be working for us, but we're going to put you into military intelligence G2 and we're going to put you on MacArthur's staff and we want you to report back because we don't trust MacArthur and Willoughby.' And uh then uh oh, dad was put on as a personal and private secretary to Dr. Hayden. And then Dr. Hayden um uh came to uh the United States and to talk to FDR and he died here. And then they took my dad out of theater to go get those the papers that he had to carry him back uh to the Philippines. And then dad started working with the guerrillas a whole bunch and because, you know, the Japanese had uh taken over the Philippines and he he landed on Leyte and then like I said started working with the guerrillas and he went into Manila way before the government troops with these guerrillas and was helping them set up their uh diplomatic mission and their uh uh government and they put the collaborators in jail. And MacArthur had been raised in the Philippines. And so when he finally gets to Manila, a bunch of his childhood friends are in jail. And they wanted to find out who did that. And my dad was the highest guy responsible. And so MacArthur said, 'Get rid of Meligan.' And they moved my dad to be head of research and analysis for the invasion of Japan. And they brought a a gentleman in by the name of Ed Lansdale who had also been in G2 and OSS at the same time to take my dad's place. And I don't know if you know much about conspiracy uh literature, but Lansdale is uh figures quite prominently in it in it. There's a uh a very good book called Gold Warriors by Sterling Seagrave um that I mean Sterling Seagrave was the son of the Burma surgeon. He uh was raised in in Southeast Asia. All of his books were book of the month club and and New York Times bestsellers uh until he wrote Gold Warriors and he had to uh publish it himself and he got so many death threats that he moved to the south of France."

"And it's an amazing book. Um, and then, uh, dad told me he went through a couple of alphas and then ended up in the CIA as branch chief, head of all of East Asia analysis office. And uh, he was there for uh, several years. And then 1951, they wanted somebody to talk to Sukarno in Indonesia. And my dad wasn't your typical uh, Ivy League CIA guy. He'd been born in Montana and raised in the Northwest. So, um,"

"What's that mean? Is he a knuckle dragger?"

"No. No, it just means that, um, he wasn't, uh, oh, I don't know, slick or something like that, you know? I mean, he wasn't he wasn't Eastern establishment. He was just a just a kid. Sure."

"Okay."

"And so, um, I went with him as a as a little kid, one and a half years old. I learned Dutch and Malay before I learned English."

"Wow."

"And you know, and I was a CIA front as a as a little kid."

"And then um we were there for a couple of years and and dad got ill and and we went back to Fairfax outside DC. I was born in DC. And uh dad just did strange odd jobs. He had a um research little place that he he did research in. And had a TV show at one time, just did different things. And then 1956, we were uh he told us he said uh he was going to write a a book about the church in Southeast Asia and uh we got taken off to our grandparents' house in Oregon and and mom and dad went off to the Far East and then things really changed. We'd been living on this 10-acre farm outside Fairfax on this along this gravel road that's now a four-lane highway. And uh uh all all of a sudden the the farm was put up for sale. We were going to be moving to Rochester. That didn't happen. Uh we moved to another little house in Fairfax. And then all of a sudden, dad was made um vice president of a college in in Nashville. And you know, again, I'm just a little kid, you know, I'm just following the family. And then we were in Nashville for like two years. And in the middle of the school year, uh the the president of the college quit. They asked my dad to be president. He said no, sold the house for $15 over its contract, and moved the whole family out to Oregon. And this was in 1959. And then in this thing in 1969 when they were telling me all about my dad's intelligence career, he said that the thing that he paper he had signed said he couldn't talk for 10 years. And so that's why he was talking to me then in 1969 because he said he left them he left the agency soft in '57 and hard in '59. Okay. And then"

"He they uh soft. Can you explain what that means? Soft and hard. What's the difference between soft and hard leaving the agency?"

"Soft was, 'Okay, I'm leaving you guys, but I'm still going to work with you.'"

"Yeah. At the as the vice president of this college, he was in charge with a bunch of international students and stuff like that, right?"

"But then, um, they were, you know, asking him to do something that he just wouldn't he wouldn't do. I mean, he he when he first left him in in '56, it was because of the drug running. He would not he was in a position where he had knowledge about it and he would not go along with it. And they offered him a life-changing bribe. They offered him parts of uh Seven Corners and Tyson's Corners up in up around the DC area."

"So, he wasn't the typical CIA pure sociopath that they like to have. This was early days."

"Yeah. He uh he he didn't take the money. I'll put it that way. He he he could have taken the money and just turned a blind eye, but"

"As most do."

"Yeah. It wasn't my dad. So I was I was very proud when I"

"That's good. So when you say he left hard in '69, '59."

"Oh, '59. How do you go How I didn't know anyone actually left quote unquote hard from the CIA."

"I thought once you're in, you're always in."

"Well, no. I mean,"

"Unless you go to jail for like blowing the whistle."

"No, it's it's a bureaucracy like any any any bureaucracy. And um no, he uh he he didn't have anything uh to do with him after that. I mean, I I I saw some of his employment records. I he did a a big thing because he used to uh they get these little blue forms every six months and he had duplicates on them and one of them he was a GS number and the other one he was a higher GS number and he had to go through all that to get his uh"

"Social security and stuff like that. But no, he uh he he didn't have anything he didn't want to have anything to do with him. Yeah. He he made a statement um uh that was in the newspaper uh uh a little bit before he died that said uh because he his last job was he was a church administrator. He said working for the church is much more nicer than working for the CIA. When you're working for the CIA, the ends justify the means. And it just wasn't wasn't my dad."

"CIA ran churches, didn't they?"

"Well, I that I don't know. I know that they have used religious organizations."

"Mhm. Yeah, they sure have. Did your dad ever tell you who really ran the world?"

"Well, you know, he he said this thing about secret societies after after the thing about, you know, tell me about the Vietnam War about drugs. The next thing out of his mouth was and communism is all a sham. These same secret societies are behind it. It's all a big game."

"Right?"

"Okay. So, he, you know, and"

"And how old were you when he told you this?"

"19."

"You're 19. Okay."

"I'm 19. I'm I'm married. Got a six-month-old kid. Okay. Started recorded early."

"Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Started a record store and was putting on rock and roll dances, you know. So, I I was having a good time. So I I really didn't, you know, I mean this and a after they told me all about my dad's intelligence career, the next thing they started talking to me about"

"You were in and and when you were doing the rock and roll stuff with the rock and roll band, that was what what decade roughly?"

"Oh, in the '60s and I mean I played music up um till about a couple years ago."

"Okay. I I played played a lot of music. But"

"You do you ever make your way to the Haight-Ashbury Clinic?"

"Uh, never been to the clinic there. No. Okay. No. No. I I was at Monterey, though."

"Oh, were you? Really? Okay. Yeah. Yeah. You"

"Ever run shoulders with any uh any cult leaders down there in California?"

"Well, I I u I knew Kesey pretty well."

"Really?"

"Oh, sure. Yeah. Yeah. He I I live in Springfield, Oregon. He he lived in Pleasant Hill, Oregon. It's real close close by."

"And, you know, he was an interesting guy. I mean I I put on Grateful Dead dances in the in the you know I think first one was '67, '68, no, '68."

"And and whatnot and no I mean I I'm a hippie. I mean I have no no ifs ands or buts about that."

"You run into Charles Manson?"

"No, never ran into Charles Manson and and and whatnot. But uh the I you know I I went back after my dad talked about you know had this talk with me and you know most of it >> just it it it was overload. I mean my dad they after they told me about uh they were playing out a loose scenario in Vietnam which didn't compute with me at all. Okay. Because at the same time they were trying to draft me to take me over there to shoot people, you know, but I had to kill them with rules. And so it just didn't make any sense. And so um and then I my dad all in in the middle of a sentence just stopped talking because he could see that he was talking he he was saying about propaganda and and and psychological warfare and then he started talking about sway pieces and I just"

"He could see that I had no idea sway pieces."

"Sway pieces. Yeah."

"Talking about like news propaganda."

"Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And and that I had no idea what they were talking about. So I so you know um I just you know went on home and"

"And next time I saw him the only question I really had because one of the things he told me was that um for OSS one of the things that they had to do was to get uh nine copies of everything that was printed. Okay. And I to me that seemed like a daunting task. And so the next time I saw him I said gee dad how did you do that? Mhm."

"And he said, 'Well, the biggest thing in, you know, to to print something, you had to have a big building and a big machine and a lot of supplies and a bunch of people.' And he said he would just compromise some people and get get his his copies. Okay. And so because it it just didn't make any sense to me at all. And and so I uh was reading a a girly magazine, I believe it was Gallery, and reading a story about the JFK assassination. And there was, you know, in there they were saying, well, people talk about, you know, the involvement of the mafia and the involvement of the CIA and some people talk about secret societies. And that brought back this whole conversation that I'd had with my dad. And I started thinking, well, gee, what what what was dad telling me there, you know, and so I started to uh do research."

"And the way I do research is to read books. And so I started, you know, first thing I really started to dig into was intelligence. How does intelligence work? What do intelligence officers do and blah blah blah? What's the protocol and all of that type of stuff? And also about the drug trade. And the hardest things for me to find was information about secret societies."

"And then finally, you know, and and during all this time, I mean, I I had a record store. I was doing band. I, you know, I I was a busy guy and, you know, had kids and stuff like that."

"And so finally in 1988, I run across Anthony Sutton's book, America's Secret Establishment, an introduction to the Order of Skull and Bones. And I read that book and and in there, you know, he talks about Skull and Bones um, you know, uh, being involved with the Russian Revolution and all of that type of stuff. And so I I read that and I said, 'Well, gee, maybe my daddy's not nuts after all.'"

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"What exactly is Skull and Bones?"

"Skull and Bones is a secret society that was started in 1832. Uh it's an outgrowth of a of a German secret society and it basically came about um because of of Phi Beta Kappa. Well, you see in the United States we had our first anti-Illuminati scare, okay? In in the 1790s, >> okay?"

"Okay."

"And George, you know, there's a famous letter to George Washington where he writes back and says, 'Yeah, they're their tenets are here and and whatnot.' And then we had a big um anti-Masonic scare. Okay? So much so that uh in the 1820s we had uh an anti-Masonic party. It was the first uh political party to have a national convention and then they elected some people to Congress and and and uh different things. And then um uh"

"What do you mean when you say anti-Masonic scare? I don't understand what that means."

"Well, well, there was a lot of that that the Masons were u quote unquote evil, bad, you know, something, you know, I mean it was just ah I see what you're saying, you know, it was it was a thing that happened here and there was, you know, speeches and different things. So we had an anti-"

"Like like a like a satanic panic but for the Masons?"

"Kind of like that. Yeah. Yeah. You you could say that. And then um so it it became very not nice. Okay. To be a member of a secret society. Okay. And what and and and I feel like secret societies is a very loaded term."

"Oh, yeah, it is."

"When you say the word secret societies, people I I feel like most people automatically think of like some crazy fringe thing on like the edge of reality. Might be true, might be witchcraft, might be, you know, science fiction, who knows? But like, but but like if you could distill what what you mean by a secret society into basic terms, what what actually is it?"

"Well, a a secret society is basically a group of people that are working in secrecy um to uh accomplish a goal. Okay? And basically, I see them, you know, these secret societies using secrecy to lie, cheat, and steal. So by that term could like Scientology be a secret society?"

"Oh, kind of, I guess, you know, I mean um is there a membership list of of secret of of Scientology? Okay. Well"

"Then you know then you know who the members are. I mean"

"Or like or like Yeah. I don't know any any sort of secret club could be a secret. It doesn't doesn't have to be like some nefarious thing where they suck the blood of children, right?"

"Uh no, it doesn't have to be. I mean, secret societies have developed, you know, through time for different different reasons. Okay? I mean, you at at one point in time, you had the Catholic Church as as the main power, right? And if you didn't do what they did, you you could get yourself in trouble. Okay? So some people banded together in secret societies to to uh you know to deal with the the Catholic Church. And I mean that's one thing I find is that you know there's different secret societies that have developed over time"

"And and uh at one point in you know they they they they become aware of each other and they might even been fighting each other but then they say wait a minute why are we fighting each other when our uh common enemy is the people? Okay. So, how many secret societies do we have? Basically, we got the Freemasons. We got the Illuminati."

"Can you can you like name like the top big players in secret societies?"

"Well, you know, you you've got the mafia."

"Okay. Yeah, we got the mafia. That's a good secret society."

"Secret society. You've got Chabad."

"Chabad. I want to talk about Chabad. I'm interested in that."

"Okay."

"Um"

"And now see see"

"As the So, so and we also have the Illuminati and we also have the Masons, right? Well, it's Phi Beta Kappa. Okay. Phi Beta."

"Is this Skull and Bones?"

"This is this is the organization that Phi Beta Kappa some of it morphed into Skull and Bones."

"Okay."

"Okay. Because see, Phi Beta Kappa started December 5th uh 1776. Okay."

"Okay."

"Um and the Illuminati started May 1st, 1776. Okay. And there's a lot of of"

"So these are the first the first ones. Yeah. I mean, well, no, there's in modern times."

"Yeah. Yeah."

"And and uh"

"So Phi Beta Kappa uh was December 5th, 1776 at the College of William and Mary. Two shoots went off. One went to Yale, one went to Harvard. Uh then you had the uh American Revolution. Mhm."

"Uh and so College of William and Mary was shut down, but the two shoots at at Yale and Harvard uh kept going. And there are Masonic scholars that say that Phi Beta Kappa was the Illuminati come to America. Okay. There's some that say, well, there wasn't enough time for the ships to get get back here. But there's uh uh plenty because see the Illuminati uh you know started by Weishaupt there in in Bavaria was very much Greek. Okay. And before that all the college u you know little clubs had generally been Latin. Okay. So Phi Beta Kappa uh was one of the first ones to to do Greek."

"Greek Latin."

"And then so in in the 1820s it became very you know not go or whatever. You didn't want to be a member of a secret society. So the Phi Beta Kappa first at at Harvard went went open became an open society. And then the Phi Beta Kappa in 1832, two members of Phi Beta Kappa, George u uh Huntington Russell and Alfonso Taft then u uh formed the Order of Skull and Bones. And William Huntington Russell had been in um at in in Germany uh going to school uh before then and um this the Skull and Bones is an outgrowth of a German secret society, the Thule Society."

"And what's their goal?"

"Um their goal, you know, I I don't know. I'm not a member. They don't uh they don't they don't tell me, but it it seems that their goal is to uh control things. Okay. Control um our future and control our kids' future."

"Control our future and control our kids' future. Okay."

"Yeah. I mean, one of the first things that Skull and Bones did was to take over the education system."

"Okay. They brought over the Prussian education system. Okay. The Prussians were very upset when Napoleon beat them. Okay. So they took the actual kids, okay, by bayonet point and and uh you know had compulsory education and and instead of teaching how to think, they teach you what to think. Okay. And and so uh William Huntington Russell was a u the scion of Russell and Company. Okay. Which was the third largest opium smuggling uh concern in the world. Okay."

"And uh opium creates a huge amount of money. Okay. Um they say that uh you know now you know fentanyl has taken over over a lot of that market but uh they were saying that there was a million to a million two junkies in the United States. I I think there's a few more okay and a million to a million two that takes a ton a day. Okay. That needs to be passed around to people. Okay. Now there's some people that can you know um maybe get a month supply. Some people get a week supply, some people get a three-day supply. Most people are daily opium intake. Okay? So, uh, and and you know, you look at Russia. Russia is 5% of their population is daily opium intake. China still has the largest amount of people that are daily opium intake. Iran has the largest percentage, 10% of their population is daily opium intake. Okay? It creates huge amounts of money which then allows these people to um uh corrupt things. I mean um how how Skull and Bones got its real big hooks into the United States of America and the United States government was through the Spanish-American War."

"And that was because of drugs. Because you see opium after the second opium war, opium became legal. Okay? They don't like that, do they?"

"And"

"We got to make that illegal."

"Well, it should be legal."

"No, I know, but they can make more money if it's illegal. Right."

"Right. Right. Right. Right. So, so after it got made legal, um, you know, I was tracking these people because I was really, you know, digging into the to the drug trade and you can see where they after they lost their cash cow. uh before the before the cash cow they had 85% of the emerging steel infrastructure in the Far East, the railroads and the steamship lines. Okay. So they uh you can see where they they start selling it off. It gets down to about 15% and they sell their uh"

"These are like all kids. Look at this. Look at these skull look. This is the Skull and Bones yearbook photo."

"Yeah. Yeah. Well, every every year, I mean, those guys"

"These kids look like teenagers."

"Well, they're juniors in college."

"That's wild. Your juniors in college."

"So, what's the initiation for Skull and Bones? Is it like some like weird uh like what those uh what were those dudes? Who were the um the Templars? What they had to do? They had to like kiss the taint of like the leader or something gay like that. They had to do anything like that with the Skull and Bones."

"You know, I I don't know. I'm not a member. I mean, there's all kinds of stories, you know, that story, you know, that there is they had a a night where they have to tell everybody about all their uh uh sexual adventures and and all this type of stuff."

"That's a they probably had to blackmail each other, right? So they didn't have to rat get any rats."

"Well, you know, I mean, there's some secret societies where you have to give them blackmail material before you join."

"I think that's what I think that's how you have to get into American politics is you have to give them blackmail. Well,"

"You know, I think I think you have to like there has to be some sick that you've done in order for you to run run society."

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"And uh you know all this stuff is so crazy because it's like up until a month ago this was like very fringe type conspiracy theory stuff. But when this all this Epstein stuff came out now it's like we're removing all the grease from the glass and the glass is becoming more transparent and now we can kind of see the shapes and and the colors and the way all this stuff moves in this other dimension. Right? There's some dimension that's above us. So like before it was just it was just completely opaque. We couldn't see anything through it. And now that we have these little drips of emails and stuff and this Epstein evidence and this testimony of you know people like Les Wexner giving up Ellie de Rothschild and all this stuff. It's like whoa. It's like all this this might be real. Maybe this is all just an allegory. Maybe we're living in a fake reality."

"No. And like it kind of is flipping like a lot of people are getting their worldviews completely turned upside down realizing that some of this you know that maybe this is the way the world works."

"Well, that's that's what happened with my with my dad telling me that story. Okay. And it to you know, it took me 20 years just to understand you know a lot of it. And by the time I un finally understood it to ask him questions, he was real sick and soon died. So, I didn't really get to talk to him about it, but I got to go through his papers and understand some of it. But again, a lot of it has to do um with with the drug trade. And then, you want to know how the secret side is run the world?"

"Yes."

"Okay. Well, it's a Leviathan of three levels. Okay."

"And each level has three parts."

"Who's the top level?"

"Top level is mining, metal, and money. Okay. You think about it, it makes sense. If you control the mining that the metal comes from that the money's based on, you're in a really good position. I mean, I had an author that could affect that position. And he first came at me with a book about gold mining, but it was like, I don't know, a thousand pages and and it was just when I first got started publishing and I didn't, you know, I said, I know nothing about gold mining. And so he finally got it published someplace in Poland. And then he came at me later with a with a thinner book and and he had the support of a a professor from Stanford on it and it was called Calling All Angels and I said about the death of his uh great aunt Jane Stanford and I said, 'Okay, well, I'll publish this book for you, uh Steven Recqua, and uh we got it out and he was dead in seven days. Okay. He got run hit hit by a run-over by a hit-and-run lorry in London. And I mean this guy, you know, he was a mining engineer. His daddy was a mining engineer. His granddaddy was a mining engineer. His great-granddaddy was a mining engineer and one of the 49ers, part of the Comstock Lode and president of the Central Pacific. Okay. So this, you know, and um so mining, metal, and money is the top level, right? Okay. The next level is a very active level. Drugs, guns, and oil."

"This is the Epstein level."

"Well, um"

"Because he was doing a lot of arms trafficking, right?"

"Right. Well, and and and and oil, you see, it was actually a me uh a member of Skull and Bones, Dr. Benjamin Silliman, Jr., okay, who uh was given a a vial of of rock oil from from Cornell and by Mr. Bissell. And he wrote him a letter and he said, 'Gee, gentlemen, you have some products here.'"

"Richard Bissell."

"Yeah. Um, you have some products here that with very, um, inexpensive processes, you have some very valuable products. And so, um, they were the piece. It was Skull and Bones that sent Drake to Pennsylvania to do the first oil well. Okay. And the only reason we go to the oil store is because they own it. Okay. There's other ways of making energy. Okay."

"Yeah. But we You see the file Epstein killed uh ponds. Yeah."

"That was crazy."

"Yeah. Yeah. Well, I I we did a book about uh about energy fusion uh from a u Italian top Italian scientist and a top Italian uh investigative reporter that talked about how um they're already using cold fusion and they're using it to make uh quote unquote mini nukes."

"What?"

"Yeah. Yeah. It's it's a book called uh Three Secrets of Three Bullets and uh we had to do it as fiction and I they I call they why do we have to do this in fiction and I read it and I said, 'Oh, I understand.' And but uh going back to"

"They have cold fusion mini-nukes."

"Mhm. Yeah. Yeah. In in Italy."

"Um no, they were they were using them during the first um uh Gulf War there, you know. They were saying that that they've would find these tanks, you know, and they would be all radiated and stuff like that."

"Yeah."

"And it and they were saying it was from spent uh uh uranium in the in the armor or something like that. It was actually uh these mini-nukes. I you know I'm I'm not an expert on it and I I you know I published the book but it was like uh 15 15 years ago. I can't remember a whole lot."

"You know, I hear all these crazy stories. I've been hearing them for so long about how the US has the best top-secret kind of weaponry black budget stuff that looks like magic. But we go into this Iran war and it's like it seems like we haven't progressed at all in centuries. Well,"

"We're using the same old"

"Again. The secret societal, you know, they really, the United States of America has been uh, you know, one of their focuses of of of having us dissolve. Okay? Because they do not like government of by for the people. Okay? So, again, drugs, guns, and oil. Okay? And"

"Um"

"Oh, yeah. I got you off track. We're doing this. Um, yeah. Yeah."

"It starts with mining, metal, and money. The layer below that is drugs, guns, and oil."

"Right? And and the, you know, the drug trade, like I said, the the uh Spanish-American War after opium became legal, okay? They lost their cash cow. And so what did they do? Well, they fanned the Spanish-American War, okay? Through false flag and yellow journalism. I mean, the Maine, right? Remember the Maine."

"What kind of journalism did you say?"

"Yellow journalism. That means"

"Oh, that means uh like Hearst saying, you know, um you give me I'll make the war. I mean, they they they created propaganda, you know, false propaganda to get the American people."

"Why they call it yellow?"

"Um, that was a term at the time. I don't I don't know. I don't know."

"And so, um, they uh you had Teddy Roosevelt. Okay. Teddy Roosevelt was Undersecretary of the Navy. Okay. And the Secretary of the Navy had gout. Secretary of the Navy went home early one day. Teddy went up to the desk and sent off a bunch of missives."

"Secretary of the Navy came back and said, 'Teddy, what did you do?' And he never left early again. Okay. And well, we declared war on on Spain, but we didn't go to Cuba right away. Teddy got to quit his job and go get a bunch of his friends and together. But we took the Philippines right away. Okay. That's what Teddy had done. He'd sent off message to Perry says, 'Get down there to Manila.' Okay. So we we took Why did we take over the Philippines? Okay, because um Manila is the oldest western port in the Far East. Okay. Spain, Spain were sending you know"

"Galleons from there. So, um, and and these guys were, you know, opium smugglers, but, you know, they didn't really cop to it when they were doing it. They were, you know, China traders. They they always had a back office in Manila."

"So, uh, they sent out Arthur MacArthur as the first military governor, okay, in the Philippines. And then they sent out uh William Howard Taft as the first civilian governor, okay, and he was a member of the Order of Skull and Bones, uh son of the founder, Alfonso Taft. Okay. So, uh, McKinley asked, uh, uh, William Howard, uh, you know, do you want to be on the Supreme Court? And William Howard looked, you know, he was a big guy. He looked good in in black robes. And he's, matter of fact, the only guy who's both president of the United States and Chief Justice of the United States Supreme Court. And so, um, but, uh, William Howard said no. And finally, um, McKinley was shot."

"Okay. And Teddy was president. And see, the Roosevelts were heavily involved with the drug trade. Okay? They were ship captains and and owned uh uh ships. And matter of fact, Delano, Warren Delano, Franklin's grandfather, was a chief factor for Russell and Company for 20 years in Canton. Matter of fact, he came back um to the United States, lost all of his his money in a in a panic, and went back and made another fortune."

"Okay. So then finally Teddy asked um William Howard, 'Well, you want to be Secretary of War?' William Howard said, 'Sure, I'll be Secretary of War.' His daddy been Secretary of War. So um he uh leaves the Philippines. Well, if you look at the historical record, what did William Howard do before he left the Philippines? He made opium illegal for the first time in modern Asia. Perfect."

"Okay. So if it's illegal, you need them smugglers. Okay? And then and then what did William Howard do? He started the HEG and the Shanghai Convention which gave us the prohibition on cannabis and the prohibition on cocoa and the prohibition on opium. And what that does is it allows these people to get primitives"

"To grow these plants for pennies, okay? And then process them and sell them for big bucks, okay? Which gives them the money then to corrupt everything. Oh, here, here, here, here, here. Because I mean it's a huge huge pile of money."

"Right?"

"What do you know about the uh Trilateral Commission?"

"Well, the Trilateral Commission was something set up by uh wasn't it Teller?"

"Rockefeller. Yeah. David Rockefeller. Jimmy Carter was a uh member of it and they had, you know, Asian u norm, mostly Japan uh people in it. And I mean, it's a quasi-secret society. I mean, it's really not secret. You've got you can get a list. Bill Gates was on there, right? Or no,"

"I don't know."

"Find out. Is there a list of who was on the Trilateral Trilateral Commission, Steve?"

"See if you can find that."

"I had a f I have a friend who is a former CIA agent um for >> like 20 over 20 years. Um, and he was telling me he has a very close former friend who is in CIA who went to one of the Trilateral Commission meetings and she said it was all about arms deals."

"Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sure. I mean, you know, it's a place where people can sit around a table and talk to each other, you know, and and and you know, get business done, you know, and and so um drugs, guns, and oil. Okay."

"It's just crazy. Yeah."

"You know, it's crazy all these people."

"Right? So, where's this where this meets the road? Okay. Media. I mean, they got to control the narrative, right? Okay."

"Podcast. You think they're controlling podcasts? I don't no well, you know, there's secret society though is minimal, you know, I mean, and it always breaks through there, you know, the people are people are stiff-necked."

"And then um music/movies. Okay. They got to control the culture or the culture will bite them in the butt. Right? Right. Yeah. That used to work. Doesn't work so much anymore."

"Gates was not on the Trilateral."

"Gates was never on the Trilateral."

"No."

"So these are the guys. Uh, wow. Look at this. Keep. So, these people all represent different countries. I mean, it's basically a business meeting, you know. It's it's similar to the Bilderberg meeting."

"Jason. Yeah. Similar. Yeah. Similar to the Bilderbergs. South Africa. Where who else we got here?"

"Russia."

"Iran. Look at that Iran lady. Um, we got Russia. Istanbul. Middle East Center, Beirut and Moscow. Okay. So is is the basic purpose of the Trilateral Commission for like all the countries to get together and say, 'This is what we're going to do. Like this is our plan. This is we're going to how we're going to run the world?'"

"Well, maybe to try to make some money to a certain extent, you know. I mean, they've got meetings, you know, all all different times around, you know, they got the WF, you know, they got lot"

"Why would they invite Jeffrey Epstein to the Trilateral Commission?"

"Well, because uh he has contacts."

"When he's in his 20s or 30 years old maybe?"

"You know,"

"Seems like he was getting groomed."

"Among other things. Among other things, you know. I mean, I again, I'm I'm not a member of these. I'm I'm, you know, outside looking in trying to trying to figure out, you know, what what they're doing."

"What is your take on it, though? You know, like what do you think? Why why would they invite him at"

Such a young age to be on the Trilateral Commission? Because he had contacts. He had something that they wanted. They had something that they wanted, something that he could do, you know? I mean, it's it's about, you know, getting people together. Okay, what can you do? What can you do? You know, okay, let's do it together. Oh, maybe we can make some money on this, too. I mean, you know, I mean, these are government people and business people and and stuff like that. So, it's it's you know, uh it's a meeting, but so it's it's media, movies/music, and then quote unquote magic. Okay? Their ability to hoodwink us to make us think something else is happening and then their preponderance on doing mass trauma rituals to keep us in line. Okay? Because at its core, the JFK assassination is a mass trauma ritual. Okay? I mean, they killed the president, right? In public, they you kill the president. That's what I've heard. Yeah. Yeah. And then 9/11 also at its core was a mass trauma ritual. These these guys are This Charlie Kirk thing, too, is pretty brutal. Well, they perform what is known as death magic. Okay. Death magic. Death magic. Yes. By killing people, you get power. That's that's some of their belief. And And they don't have to get everybody to believe that. How do you get power from killing people? I don't know. That's that's their belief, you know. I mean, um, it's like, you know, the JFK assassination, if if you look very hard at JFK assassin and 9/11, both of their, um, grounds, okay, the the killing plaza of Dilly Plaza. Yeah. Okay. And the place where those buildings were built, okay, all started in the 30s. Okay. You know, they all started those operations in the 30s. Okay. So this this has been a a longstanding plan of using psychological warfare. Okay? Because you see uh don't tell me it was built in 1933. What? Oh, Plaza. Well, you know, on the 33rd on the 33rd latitude. It is. It is on the 33rd. I know. That's crazy. And and and and Elm Street there is the only street around there that runs at 33rd degrees. I mean I you know we've been doing these roundts for quite a while and one of these roundts we've had this uh one gentleman who's uh can show how uh every major city in in in the United States and and most in the world have are set up on a a particular grid a Masonic type. Is it also true that the first nuke ever tested was on the 33 33rd degree? The trinity trinity and Jerusalem's on the 33rd degree. Yeah. Yeah. the end times prophecy, Chris. Well, end times prophecy. I mean, you know, there's been so many end times prophecies over and over again. You know, people sell all their house, move up, get up in the top of the hill, and wait for the world to end. And Lord have mercy, it don't end. You know, I mean, it's a it's a that's a again, it's a control mechanism. I mean, yeah, you know, you have you have a particular group of people, um, the priests, okay, I mean, the priests learned out a long time ago, okay, I can make some smoke come out of that little hole over there. Um, you know, the people bring me food, they'll bring me their kids, they'll bring me most anything, okay? And and so, uh, the priests learned how to, you know, do things so that they could get things from the population and control them. Okay? Another group out there is the pirates. Okay. Pirates. Pirates. Sure. If if you're if you're a seafaring civilization and you come across a bunch of land lovers, okay, you're your knowledge is so superior to those land lovers that then you're able to, you know, use techniques to to get what you want out of them. So you you basically have you know through time these these groups and this uh uh corruption has grown has grown up. It's grown up. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's rather sophisticated. I mean right you know uh you were saying that you know people started thinking about secret societies. I mean I started thinking about them you know after my daddy told me and it No, I I was I was I think I don't I think people have always been thinking about secret societies. I just think it was e these people these types of people who take them seriously have always been brushed off. Oh yeah. Until now. I've been brushed off for years. Yeah. You know, and now it's impossible to ignore even though there's people that go to the end of the earth to try to ignore it still. Right. Well, you know, it it's it's again and you know, when I would first start talking about this, you know, um and people would come up to me and say, "Oh, no. They're they're just a bunch of greedy people. They just want money." And I'd say they've already got a lot of money. It's not about money. It's about control. It's about control of the narrative and control of the future. Okay? And which leads to control of your children. Okay? Because you know we have as oh all of us together have failsafe devices. So we as a humanity just don't go all jumping off the cliff. Okay. The first failsafe device is is the dialectic. Okay. And I say some things that I know are true about uh drug running intelligence agencies and secret societies. Okay. Then I find somebody that I know is a spook. Okay. That says stuff just a little bit more outrageous. He puts some lies in there. Okay? Because by controlling the extremes, you control the middle. Okay? That and so um this this failsafe device can be manipulated. Okay. The next failsafe device we have is the cycle of generations. There's a very good book called generations, a history of America's future. Okay. And you have an idealistic group. Okay? Then you have a reactive group. Then you have a civics group and then you have an adaptive group and then they start all over again propelling us in the future. Yeah. Okay. So the powers that be the kids that were teens and pre-teens in the 1860s they didn't cohhere as a generation. Okay. Some of them joined the generation after. Some of them joined the generation before. Some of them just went out in the woods and did weird stuff. Okay. Okay. So, what that does is it makes us a four cycle engine, but we're only running on three cycles. You're talking about like the fourth turning type thing, right? These are the same people that wrote The Fourth Turning. This is their earlier book called Generations. Okay. So um the um uh so so in this book they talk about okay why did this the the kids that were teens and pre-teens in the 1860s why didn't they cohhere as a generation well it was because of the assassination of a president war and then opium okay and so what that and and because we were only a you know a four cycle only running it allowed these people to really get their claws into our country during the SpanishAmerican War and all of that, okay? Because we weren't as strong, okay? Because we're only a four fight cycle engine running on three cycles. So, um, they they attempted to do that again, okay, to us, the people that were teens and pre-teens in the 1960s, the boomers, okay? And and and to to do this, they had to have in place by 1950 three things. Okay? They had to have the modern education system. Okay? And this was brought to us in a very open um campaign by the Masons. Okay. And then they had to have television. Okay. But not just television, but television that runs at 60 cycles. So it has a little flicker in there. You read any book about hypnosis, it'll tell you that uh 60 cycle flicker put you into a trance. Okay. I mean the the uh I heard sorry to interrupt you. Somebody told me the other day that the education system, what was Kurt saying? He was saying kindergarten was specifically designed to get kids away from their parents. I I I've read that too and there's there's, you know, um some I'm sure there's some truth to that. And and the uh uh because the television that the patents go back to the 1920s, okay, as this guy was sitting there watching a wheat field blowing in the wind, he says, "Gosh, I could I could make pictures on a cathode ray tube." Okay. And uh so they got television in place and you know I I was right there in DC. We we had TV early and uh and and drug culture. Okay. So they needed those three things in place by 1950s. Okay. You had the beatnicks, right? So um they uh it didn't happen. We weren't supposed to cohhere but as boomers did cohhere. We cohered as hippies around a joint being smoked around a circle with a little bit of LSD thrown in. Okay? Because see, with with LSD, you can distract. You can make people wear white sheets. Okay? But you can't control people like you can with opium and heroin. I mean, heroin's got a very simple dynamic. Here, kid, you want some? Oh, you want some more? Oh, how about your friends? Okay. I mean that's the basic dynamic with that. Okay. And because see what my dad said about the Vietnam War about about drugs it's it's absolutely right because see what they were doing they were sending American boys and girls, Canadian boys and girls, Australian boys and girls, Korean boys and girls and a couple other boys and girls to Vietnam. Okay. But like in World War II, you signed up and you didn't know when you was coming home. Okay? But Vietnam War, you you coming home after one year. Okay? So, a bunch of these kids, okay, got addicted to the heroin that was being profered to them by anybody who was 12 years and up in Vietnam. And um you know an interesting thing about that is you know a lot of the people you know just dropped it cold turkey but a bunch of them didn't and then you know and they're spread all around the country all around the world and what does a junkie do? A junkie sells junk. Okay. So, um the uh you know make because you know there's this whole big thing about you know um the hippies and everything it's just a it's just a CIA project and all that type of stuff right and I look at it as well maybe they tried okay but it's more like the uh oh the mad scientist and the experiment got way out of his way out of way out of his hands way out of control Right. Okay. And uh so but but so so us hippies did we cohhere it as a generation. Okay. And oh they did a History Channel did a big two-hour special on the hippies. Okay. And they said what came out of the hippies. They said the personal computer and the internet. Okay. And see, those are the tools that we're using to fight the corruption of people using secrecy to lie, cheat, and steal. Okay? Because see, the personal computer allows me allows me to be a publisher, allows you to be a podcast. Okay? And then the internet allows us to tell people about it and talk about it. Okay? And so, how are we going to get rid of this corruption if we don't know about it? Okay? We ain't going to get rid of it if we don't know about it. And if we start to understand it, okay, then we can get rid of this corruption because again they're there, the these people ain't gods. They're just people. Okay? And they're using their secrecy to lie, cheat, and steal. Okay? And and you know, destroy the United States of America. I mean what our founders went through, okay, to to create this country of government of and by and for the people, you know, where we aren't taking our orders from no king. We aren't taking our orders from any pope or whatnot. You know, we're taking our orders from the people. All right, think about this for a second. Every guy has their go-to piece that just works. their favorite fitting pair of jeans, their favorite pair of Dunks, their shirt that just fits just right. You don't even have to think about it. You just throw it on and go. 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Like the internet we know was created by DARPA the DARPA and Jacqu Valet I think had a huge or no jos I think. um the the guy the guy the guy in in Switzerland. But see see what what happened no with with DARPA. Okay, again with the internet the people drove it into something that nobody had any idea. I mean you you know I I've read a lot of science fiction. I was big big reading in science fiction as a kid and all of that all the hind line all that stuff. Okay. And there there's nothing out there that that that you know shows exactly I mean the maybe the closest thing is moon is a harsh mistress. Okay. But um no the basically you know in the in the Bay Area there, okay, somebody in Berkeley says, "Wait a minute, I can sell my Volvo to this guy over here in Stanford." Okay. And and and so I mean, it it it grew up into something that nobody had any idea that it would be. Yeah. Okay. I mean, it wetted itself uh so fast to the to the financial markets and all kinds of things. Okay. So, no, I I do not think that um what the internet has become was some sort of some guy in DARPA many years ago said, "Oh, yeah, yeah, that's what it's You don't think it was some big broadspanning overall control plan by the elites to like, look, we're going to create this thing called the internet. It's going to secretly spy on everyone around the world." You know, similar to how the creation of Google happened with Sergey Brand getting groomed and visited by the people from CIA and NSA. Yeah. Well, that's that's that was, you know, yes, I mean, there's there's there's that aspect to it, but they can't control everything and and they can't control every person, you know, and and and people are driving things way beyond what what what their control mechan the corruption is so much in our face these days, you know? I mean, it's it's it's quite quite in our face the the corruption. It is. And I wonder what that's doing. It's on one hand, I feel like it's getting out of their control because it is so blatant in our face. And on the other hand, I feel like, is it really out of their control? Can they just let it out and drive people crazy enough to where nobody knows where the line between illusion and reality is and people are just going to be stuck in this mass psychosis and fighting each other over everything? Well, you know, uh, we've done some AI and we're looking on doing another AI book. And one of the things that that that gentleman talks about is that it's it's easier for them to control a divided society than it is, you know, so so it it might behoove them, you know, to divide people. And yeah, I mean it's it's an old standard thing divide and conquer, you know, and it seems like with this Epstein stuff that the old media establishment is doing their best to use the most bipartisan story of my lifetime, which is Jeffrey Epstein, to divide or distract from it and to to make it bipartisan or to to make it more partisan and to make it and to even just to push it aside, you know, things like calling it a Democrat hoax and and all this other stuff when I feel like that this Epstein story is the biggest bridge between both sides of the polit political spectrum I've ever seen. And it seems like like it it baffles my mind how you can have all of these social justice riots over things like the George Floyd thing and other things where you see people getting, you know, streets getting burned and and all this other stuff. And then Jeffrey Epstein, no one does a thing about it. No one seems to care. And it's like you have way more people being abused and victimized and murdered over this. Why do you think why do you think that is? Have you thought about that? Well, uh just from from my experience, okay, in in the 60s and 70s in in anti-war, okay, you would uh you could follow the anti-war up up to to their leaders and you would end up with a bunch of um commi CIA people. Okay. Because you know it was behooving them to you know to have it have it under control. Okay. And and you know and and the whole thing about you see the SpanishAmerican war. One thing that that did we then then start having a war like every 20 years. Yeah. Okay. What what did your daddy do in the war? What did your daddy do in the war? You know so it it creates that mentality. Okay. So, one of the things that they were trying to create there, too, because they wanted this division was to, you know, have this this anti-war and, you know, well, they're they're, you know, dirty evil people and blah blah blah blah. Because, you know, one of the things that uh when I first uh uh oh, started talking to people in the 70s a little bit about what my daddy said in my little bit of research, somebody looked at me and said, "You're a conspiracy theorist." And I said, "What's a conspiracy theorist?" You know, so I took it on as an intellectual discipline. Okay. And one of again, I like books, so I went into every bookstore I could find. Okay? and said, "Take me to a conspiracy section." And all of them had at least one book. Oh, okay. So, I took these books and, you know, started reading them. After a while, I says, "Wait a minute. These are, you know, cuz I got a book that, you know, blames it all on the Mormons. I got a book that blames it all on the Roman Catholics." Okay? I got a book that blames it all on the Masons. I got a book that blames it all on the Jews. I got a book that blames it all on the secular humanists. Okay? So, I said, "These these are like formula books, okay? You know, I don't like you. you don't like me, you know, let's let's let's throw stones back and forth. Okay, so again, u you know, by controlling the extremes, you control the middle. Okay, that's why you have all the, you know, the the weird stuff on on the hard right and the weird stuff on the hard left. Okay? Because by again, by controlling the extremes, you control the middle. Okay? So, um that's interesting. It's uh it's definitely a wild world. I mean, you know, we did this book called The Nebula uh by a uh Belgian uh writer and it was based on a Belgian state police report. Okay. And they you know what police do? Well, we'll put an undercover guy in, right? You know, he rises up and up and up in these things. He gets to the top and he founds that there's a whole bunch of groups all called the order. Okay, but there are different flavors. Okay, you might have a gay one, an Islam one, a Jewish one, you know, whatever. Different order for each each flavor society, right? And and then and then you know you say, well now how what are these people going to do? You know, this one they don't trust this one over here. So what are they going to do? Scapegoats. Well, they're going to say, "Hey, have a couple of your people join my circle, and we'll have a couple of your people join my circle." Okay? And so, you have these interlocking circles, and then you have a council uh type thing. But and and the other thing that the secret societies have is they've been keeping records for, you know, hundreds of years. Okay? And so, they have like a column, horoscope column, economic column, you know, uh different things so that they can keep track of things. And then also if they see a similar situation they say well hey well this is what happened back then you know maybe we can look at that. But what we have going on now is you know like that fourth turning we have a major paradigm shift happening. Yeah. Okay. And what those guys show is that every time you have a major paradigm shift no matter who you are okay things going to change big time. Okay. So during a time like this, the quote unquote powers that be are, you know, going to try and pull out all stops so that as the shifting happens, they land on their feet, right? So um and I'm very hopeful for the future again. I I I truly think that by, you know, continuing to expose this corruption, okay, we can hopefully, you know, come to a situation where we can deal with it. Yeah. Where do you think all of this goes? How do you think do like do you think there'll be a massive restructuring of the government or how government works or do like my opinion is is you know how you they throw those big tents over the houses to fumigate it of all of the termites that's what they need to do to the United States government. Well I you know I go along with something like that you know I mean there was a there was a huge restructuring after Watergate. Okay. There was a huge restructuring after Watergate. There was a lot of uh you know lawyers uh put into different places to make sure that people just couldn't um you know go off the rails like some of that they did. And you know like Nixon I mean h how did Nixon get his job? That's a good question. I don't know. He blackmailed the Dulles brothers. Really? Yeah. Yeah. He was he was he was a lawyer running around uh New York City uh wrapping up some of the uh uh contracts. Okay. And the Dulles were in constant a mansion out in Long Island. Okay. And they were bringing in not one or two or 10 but thousands of Nazis against direct written orders from Harry Truman. Okay. The Dulles brothers were the Dulles brothers were for what? Well, this was pre- paperclipip. This is pre- paperclipip, post paperclipip, and part of paperclipip. Okay. Okay. And um because they were they were their friends. I mean uh Dulles did operation sunrise. He he uh um you know did a uh piece of paper you know with uh • General Wolf • before the uh • real surrender and then he he brought over Richard Galen. Okay. To run the Galen organization. I don't know who Richard Galen is. Uh Richard Galen • ran the intelligence for the Nazis mostly in in Eastern Europe. Okay. and he was in constantly set up the Galen organization. So you said Nixon got blackmail on the Dulles brothers and that's how he got into the power. Yeah, that's crazy. And Nixon also was the head of some sort of commission like 150 something commission. Well, Operation 40 basically. Yeah, Operation 40. Yeah, there was a there was a Yeah, there was some sort of 1512 I want to say it was or something like that. 5401. That sounds right. Yeah. And he was working with that billionaire dude um who had the ship that recovered the submarine? Hughes. Howard Hughes. Hughes. Well, yeah, there, you know, uh, basically after, uh, Dulles, they they sent Prescott Bush, uh, to take care of, uh, Richard Nixon, and, you know, he introduced him to a bunch of the gangsters in uh, uh, in LA. Mhm. And whatnot. I I turned the mob down twice. You turned the mob down. For what? What were they offering? Well, I was a a salesman selling pre-recorded video and uh what kind of video? Well, I was sound of music. You know what? You know, at the very beginning there there was, you know, we had one sheet of paper had both BH VHS and Beta • on it there. And I was at the CES show, Consumer Electronic Show in Chicago. Yeah. And uh I was a typical salesman. I ain't making enough money. And they said, "Go meet Guido up at the top of the stairs and I go up there and he's up there and he sees I'm a hippie." And so he he offers me Chichin Chong movies that aren't even in the theater • because at this point in time you could get, you know, easy hundred bucks for Superman or or Star Wars and stuff cuz they weren't out officially. And uh but I I just I don't know. I didn't didn't like him. Yeah. So I said no. And then later on, um, they wanted to set up a used warehouse in Portland, and I knew it it'd be used, but there'd also be a bunch of black market stuff there. And they made sure that I knew that the lounge where they uh did the thing • where I was to meet their boss, that he owned it. And I get there and and he's brings three picture books. his picture book of his mansion, his picture book of his horses, his picture book of his cars, and uh but you you only tell those guys yes once and I'd been around the block enough to know that. So I told them no. Yeah, probably a good move. So yeah, Nixon and Howard Hughes went through the mafia to try to whack Castro, right? Well, you had uh Ed Landdale, the the guy that uh • replaced my dad. He used to come over to the family house, too. Um he was he was head of Operation Mongoose, okay? Which was the • uh thing that that brought the mob and and the CIA together to • kill Castro. And then for my money, • Lansdale wrote the • script for the JFK assassination. I mean, You think he wrote the Lansdale wrote the script? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You you had uh Pegasus. Pegasus was set up by Truman. Okay. When he signed the CIA into uh operation and it was to it was mostly enable intelligence people but a couple other people. And they were uh to go off reservation and to look in and see what uh was going on and if uh anything hinky was going on, they were supposed to tell the president. And uh there's a guy by the name of Trent Parker and he had a tap on Hoover's phone. Okay. And uh before the assassination, they got a conversation with Hoover and Johnson. Okay. They're they're so blackmailable. They're in your pocket. Yeah. Those guys are Sick And and then you had Allan Dulles. Okay. He's the conigliari. Okay. And then you had George H. W. Bush on this conversation and he brings skull and bones the whole Skull and Bones people, April Herman and whatnot and Prescott. And then you had uh David Rockefeller, no, excuse me, Nelson Rockefeller. Yeah. And he brings uh David in and that's your your basic crew. Okay. And then you see, I mean, when you have a conspiracy, hey, hey, you want to go kill the president with me? You don't do that. What you do is you hold it very tight and then you lie. You lie to those people to get them into the position that you want them to be in when the when the action happens. Have you heard of John Newman? Oh yeah. He's got a great grip on all the moving parts in the JFK story. Uh John John's okay, but no, I I've been at conferences where he said, "Hey, I was wrong." Okay, that's that's a good thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because I mean he used to put in that James Jesus Angleton was a big part of it and uh James Jesus Angleton again got his job by blackmailing the Dulles brothers. Okay. Um because uh Allan came to him and said, you know, there's there's a How do you do that? How do you get your get a job by black? It seems like uh he didn't do the background checks on on a bunch of Dulles's friends. He was out of counter intelligence. I know that. I'm just saying how do you present that? It seems like a dangerous way to get a job to use the blackmail. And and it's funny, you know, if you read about blackmailers, one thing that black mailers tend to do is they tend to get paranoid. Okay? And James Jesus and Richard were both rather paranoid, you know, and and and and why would you bring James Jesus in? You know, there's no reason to bring James Jesus in. You just do the deed and then you let James twist in the wind and create mud for you. Yeah. Okay. So, Newman's whole take on JFK was it was a military coup. He said it was lesser and uh the joint chiefs of staff that wanted the allout nuclear war with China and Russia and uh basically Kenny Kennedy was getting in the way of that trying to stop it. So, well then why didn't they do it after Kennedy died? because um he has a good answer for that and I don't remember what that answer is but basically the point of the point was at that point in time the uh the spring before his death was when the US had the most nukes and Russia had the least nukes. And we figured they actually I think this was documented. They said that we would lose something like 60 million people but they would lose 150. So it was like insane. It was uh that's insane. Yeah. That's insane. Okay. No. No. Uh it it was it wasn't a military it wasn't a military I mean you you you had to lay the military off. You had to tell them particular lies and and different things like that. But, you know, the object of it was the American people. The I mean, you you kill a president in broad daylight, okay, with a story that a 5-year-old can can see through. Mhm. Okay. Well, I mean, that that tells the American people, well, hell, you ain't in charge of your government. Okay. Yeah. This is another thing that there's a million different flavors of the Kennedy death. People say it's everything. People say it's Israel, it's aliens, it's nukes, it's whatever. Yeah. No, it was it was a psychological You think it was a an intentional psychological trauma experiment on the public? It wasn't an experiment. They knew what they were doing. I mean, mind where mind control. Let's talk about mind control. Yeah, let's do it. Actually, let me take a quick break. I got to take a pee real quick. Okay. All right. We'll be right back. Mind control. We're going to jump right back into Tell me about mind control. Well, mind control, you've got a couple of factors to mind control. First one is trance, okay? And everybody takes trance differently. Some people, you know, go go deep really fast. Some people um, you know, it'll last long. It but everybody affects trance differently. Then you have role playing. Okay? If you would, would you do something not as yourself, but would you do it if you were Toto the dog? Okay. And then you have trauma, okay? And ritual, okay? And those are the basic things of mind control. Now, um, they call it operation bluebird. Why did they call it operation bluebird? Okay. Metroink's play. Okay. And because in Metroink's play, there's like five pages of um characters. I mean, there's like milk, uh water, the luxury of being a slave, the luxury of being rich. I mean, there's just all kinds of off-the-wall characters in it. Okay. So, where was Metrolink's play first put on? 1906 in Moscow. Same place you had Pavlov and his dogs. Okay. See, the mind control, they move it around, too, because you keep it in one place too long, people start looking at it and and seeing it there. It's it's it's one the mob learned that too. I mean, if you have a house of illreute, okay, and you have the same girls there all the time, uh the revenue on that house goes down, okay? So, they had to move the girls around, okay? And uh because like you know um if you look at the Thu society okay where Hitler came out of okay • uh you've got a lot of mind control different things • coming out of there and so and and it it gets down to a a very • technical level again too • uh • the the flicker and the TV. Okay. and and different things like that. But uh and and just like you can do mind control to a single person, okay, a single body, you can do mind control to • a nation, to a community, to, you know, to anything that that's a unit value. You smash that unit value. Okay. You create altars. Right. Right. The two political parties are is based that's a version of mind control. It's a way to keep people in check and control them. Yeah. And fit them into different • ideologies, right? Well, it it has aspects of it and can be used that way. It's a very high level broad version of mind control. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, um the deepest most sinister aspects of mind control go back to • the Cold War days with like MK Ultra and the Finders. And the Finders aren't well cold war. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. What What was the Can you explain the finders? Well, basically they came across these people in a in a park in Florida, if I remember correctly, and then they uh traced them back to a place outside of Maryland. and and again it it's about getting kids, okay, and start doing dastardly things to them • to create altars, okay, and and then it it • to create like Manurion candidates, that kind of thing. You know, there there's mind control survivor conferences. I strongly recommend you go to one now and then, okay? And I went to one and we got this is good 20 years ago and there was like the women there's at that point in time one of the biggest • because they've got to experiment. They've got to they've got to figure out how it works. Okay. And the number one • one that they work on is is women that work for the federal government. Okay. And so we got about, it wasn't quite 20, it was maybe about 18 of these ladies in a row for and by their ages. Okay? And we started talking, asking them questions. And you could see where the ones • uh • the older ones, they were basically trying shotgun approaches, trying to figure out, okay, what do I have to do to the brain to make, you know, certain things happen? where you got down to the end, they were just using stun guns and they they had, you know, the different Delta and different • aspects • uh • that they • you know • groom people for, either • spies, • assassins, • sex, and and different things like that. And you know, you have • um you have people there that have been used in in in in Masonic ceremonies as as little kids because then they're this innocent • type thing in in their in their rituals. And uh • uh, you know, it it it it's really quite insiduous. But again, just like you can do it to to one person, you can you can do it to a to a country. Sure. and and because it it shatters it it shatters the mind and then you know and they're always after • um people that have • uh • need a strong • father figure. Okay. And you know like Lee Harvey Oswald and • now do you know who Michael Roupert is? I know the name to remind me who he is. He he he wrote a book • from the wilderness. Okay. and he I I met him through • the CIA drugs • crowd • and • um he was a gentleman that went through • mind control as a kid. Okay. And because like the JFK community, that's a you know that's a that's a large community looking into it. CIA drugs very very small community. Okay. And we were we were making some inroads. And so • they sent Deutsch, the CIA director, to LA and and Rupert gets up there and and confronts him. Oh yes, I know. This that video is incredible. Right. And then and then he becomes a quote unquote, you know, a leader in in the CIA drugs • thing. Well, I was • putting on CIA drug symposiums and he started throwing his weight around and stuff. Hopsicker was the first person to say there's there's something hinky there going on. And you know he tried to he did make me • not have one person there at one of the symposiums and which I was very sad because he was soon run over by a truck and he was a DIA. He was • no not Rert. this a gentleman by the name of Brian Quig who was a DI agent and was adding quite a bit to the discussion and • and then all of a sudden you know • 9/11 happened and the CI drugs email list we were very much • oh into you know deconstructing government lies and everything. So, as soon as 9/11 happened, the first thing that was said was, "Okay, everybody turn on your VCRs, okay? And start recording everything." And uh um and you know, the • powers that be hit that little • email list too, they uh • sent somebody in there. Well, the the first thing you know 911 was you had • the boing.com. Okay. Boing. Boing. Okay. Which there was no planes in DC. There was no no plane hit hit the Pentagon. Well, if you've been to DC, the Pentagon is surrounded by freeways. Okay? There was plenty of people in DC who saw that plane hit. Okay? But if you start the meme out there that, oh, there's no planes on in DC. It it makes you know the people in Congress that could actually do something think that we're all nuts. Okay? And then then there was a a lady by the name of Web Fairy. Okay. And she started the thing about, oh, there's no planes in New York either. They're all what's it? UFOs. Yeah. Yeah. And that kind of stuff. And then you had the the kicker come in where this other guy came in, Sean McBride. He comes in and says, "Oh, the Jews did it all." Okay. Which is the way to, you know, shut down any conspiracy thing. You just, you know, say say the Jews did it all. And and and we've come to find out that Shawn McBride wasn't Shawn McBride. He was John Foster Brerle. Okay. was a spook who started um you know doing • dirty and • even before the internet on on bulletin boards and • uh • you know they tried to • take that over and then and then RERT became very big in 9/11 and helped him do that and he • you know before we had the first big 911 conference in in San Francisco all of a sudden Mike goes to Russia for two weeks weeks for an economic conference and then he comes back and says, "Well, you know, 9/11, oh, we're just reshuffling the chairs on the Titanic. I'm going to do the old conspiracy two-step tango and take you to Peak Oil. That's really the big conspiracy that's going on, the big bad thing that's happening, which was complete bullshit." Okay, excuse my language. And because, you know, he went through • the mind control as a as a kid and • and he brought another person into CIA drugs who had openly talked about going through the mind control training as a kid. Katherine Austin Fitz. Okay. She does. Oh, I know her. Yeah, I know her. Yeah. She's a She's a very • smart, very nice lady. I en I like her a whole lot. Um she doesn't like to talk about that now, but what would tell me what happened to her? She went through mind control as as a kid. You know, that's how that's how she got on to be on on Dylan Reed. Okay. It used to be How do you know she went on through mind control as a kid? She told me. She talked about it. Oh, publicly. Yeah. Yeah. She doesn't like to Well, I know we were in private conversations, but Yeah. How did this happen to her? Um I I don't know. You know, she That's all she said. I went through mind control as a kid. Well, she went through more, but I mean this was this was good 20ome years ago. You know, I'm 70some. I I don't remember everything. Lord have mercy. And uh and it's like, you know, uh Gerald Ford went through mind control training. You know, he went he went through the football program, okay, along along with Ted Gunderson, okay, who was a special agent in charge of FBI in LA, okay? Uh because you see you can follow the mind control training you know it a lot of it came over from from Europe okay went into the army okay and then when the air force went out of the army most of it went went to the air force okay and • um there's when you look at mind control for a long time you find what I I I call them wells in other words they're they're places where There's been a lot of activity for for a long period of time. Okay. And where did where did Gerald Ford come from? What's Gerald Ford's real name? Jerry. Lesie King Jr. King. King Jr. Yeah. Yeah. How do you get Gerald Ford out of Lesie King? Well, his his his mom remarried, but they're always after kids that need a, you know, good good uh • need a father figure. And and so • uh you you can see where where this mind control was in in in academia for a while. Okay. And these academics said, "Okay, I've got one person here and I can I can have him work with me, but you know, I'd like to see if I could get two people together and if I can, you know, get them to to work together." Okay. and they decided football was the place to do that. Okay. And • um Alonszo Stag, a member of the Order of Skull and Bones, is considered the father of American football. Alonszo Stag. Stag. Yes. St. He created American football. S A G G. And um so you look at Gerald Ford, where where was he as a football

player? He started off in Omaha. Okay. A big well. Okay. And then, and then where did he go from Omaha? He went to Michigan. Okay. They, they like Michigan. They could give give people drugs and take them to Meno Island and think that, hey, you, you took them back a hundred years. You're a powerful person. Okay. And, and then where, where did he go after Michigan? He went to Quantico and then he went to Yale. Okay. And that's where he got his law degree and he was an assoc assistant football coach there. Okay. And you know, and he, he came in real handy, didn't he? Okay. During the Watergate and all of that. I mean, and then, um, the, uh, um, u, oh, what's his name? The, the LA guy. Uh, Ted Gunderson. Okay. I mean, you know, he's been at my house, you know, spent spent a couple nights there and, you know, I talked to him about it directly. Told him, I said, "Ted, you're being used and abused." Okay. Ted was out of the football program, too. Okay. Where did he play his college, his high school football? Colorado Springs. Any air force around there? Okay. Then where did he go from Colorado Springs? He went to Omaha. And then where did he go from Omaha? He went to Quanico and then Yale.

>> Okay. So, um, it's a, uh, they, the powers that be have affected our history a lot with us not even knowing it.

>> So, the NFL was created by the CIA.

>> I didn't say NFL. I said

>> American football.

>> American football. Lonzo Stag. Yeah.

>> I mean,

>> that's pretty crazy.

>> Yeah. Well, uh, George HW Bush's uh, first base, uh, coach was one of the, uh, uh, oh, guys that recruited people there at Yale. I mean, and Bush was in the CIA right after Yale. He, you know, him just

>> joining when he was the director of

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You said earlier or a couple minutes ago when we were talking about 911, you said there was lots of evidence and eyewitnesses that there was a plane that hit the Pentagon.

>> Yeah. Yeah. What is your overall take on 911? What do you think that was?

>> Again, it was a a mass trauma hit against the American people.

>> Okay.

>> So, it was intentional and the American government was complicit in it. Um, well, the secret societal part of the American government was uh complicit with it. Okay. I mean, not the whole American government was complicit in it. No.

>> Mhm.

>> You know, there is this I saw this video on X. Someone sent me this video of this group of students doing this crazy art project in one of the Twin Towers and it took up an entire floor was basically shut down for months right before 9/11. Are you familiar with this?

>> Mhm.

>> I got to find this real quick. I got to send this to you, Steve. Um, yeah. There was uh I think I might have sent the

>> That's it. That's it. You found it.

>> This one.

>> Uh, no. No. The guy on the right. That interview on the right.

>> Okay.

>> Let's listen.

>> Check this out. We got headphones right here. If you put these on, you can hear the audio.

>> All right. Press play.

>> Good evening. You're watching the Artist Forum. My name is Ellie Fordise and I will be your host for this segment this evening. And I'm very, very happy to be up at World Views, which is a wonderful art exhibit and presentation that the lower Manhattan Cultural Council has been putting on here at the World Trade Center number one building, World Trade Center. And I have with us tonight Mktar Coach. And Mktar, can you tell us something about this program and your involvement with it?

>> Sure. Um, this is actually an artist residency program. Artists apply to uh and are selected by a jury um to be in residence on the 91st floor for a period of approximately 6 months. And it's a raw space um it's a shared studio experience for approximately 15 to 20 artists and they get to work in this environment. Some people um paint the views, some people work on issues of corporate culture, some people are interested in issues of scale, others meditate and do very ephemeral um works cuz as you can imagine the views are very inspiring um and uh the light is very beautiful. Um, this program was actually uh started um as it is is uh 3 years ago. Um, however, approximately four years ago um an experiment um to have artists in the World Trade Center was initiated by an artist called Carorza and um who approached the lower Manhattan Cultural Council about uh the desire to paint from the World Trade Center during the winter uh because it was uh convenient and the World Trade Center would offer spectacular.

>> Go back to the very first frame of that video. It shows like a wide angle of some of the art all over the floor and the walls. Just refresh it and see if it, if uh, it restarts it. I want you just to see. So right there, look. Pause that. You see how it says exit on the back wall and on the floor.

>> Mhm.

>> And then if you play it, it shows like a different area where it says that they have, they have the word exit everywhere. It's just so strange because there was Right. Look. Yeah. Look at that.

>> Freaky.

>> Mhm.

>> Because there are descriptions of people talking about crazy like floors being shut down months before that and like construction and crazy jackhammering going on on one of the shutdown floors.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I, I think that there was uh, you know, uh, they, there had to be some pre-planning on on the whole thing uh to get it to get it to happen, but um, and then in the Epstein files, you have that whole shadow commission thing where they're emailing Gileain asking her if she wants to be a part of the the 9/11 shadow commission. And then there's that whole missing trunch of emails between like 1999 and 2001. What are they trying to hide? I mean, you know, I, I, I mean, I don't know. I mean, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm just a a kid looking at this from the outside trying to figure out what's going on.

>> Okay. And I mean, um, it, it, it's, it's quite obvious that, you know, there's, there's uh, all kinds of occult things uh about 9/11. Uh, we did a, a book called The Most Dangerous Book in the World where, you know, the guy deconstructs all the different uh uh cult lines uh uh to to the act. And then have you uh ever talked to Richard Grove at tragedyandhope.com?

>> No.

>> Well, I strongly recommend that Richard should is supposed to be dead. He was supposed to be in 911 that day, but he had a car

>> um that had just got done and he picked it up from his uh

>> um uh the the garage and and he didn't get to work on time that day.

>> Him and Howard Lutnick.

>> And so he's done a lot of uh incredible work on that and and he's uh he's quite uh oh areodite around about the whole thing. I

>> interesting. I strongly recommend you talking to him, too.

>> Yeah. Well, I'll check him out. You know, another another interesting character tied into all this stuff and the Epstein stuff is Howard

>> Lutnik.

>> Who is still employed by Trump's White House after all of this, you know, he was on a podcast 6 months before the Epstein files came out. Absolutely lying through his face hole

>> about how he met him one time and then made a made a dying vow with his wife to never ever be in touch with that despicable human being ever again.

>> And he and he lives what? Nine steps away from him.

>> Yeah. Yep. 11 East 71st Street. And Jeff and Epstein was like 90 71st Street.

>> Right. Right. Right. And uh, so they shared a wall between their two houses and uh, there's tons of I don't know how many but there was a bunch of emails between them where they were going to like all the things in that podcast interview he said that he vowed never to be a part of with Epste fundraisers, this that, whatever, he was literally at all those exact types of events with Epstein. Not to mention he was literally going to his island with a boatload of people and there's photos of them together hanging out. Like the fact that this guy still has a job is insane. And he was one of the ones who famously made those crazy bets on the airlines right before 9/11 happened.

>> He was. Oh, wow. Wow. Yeah. No, I mean, it, it's crazy. I mean, the whole Epstein story um, you know, we did uh One Nation Under Blackmail um by by Whitney Webb and that was built on, you know, a bunch of other books that we did like the Franklin Scandal.

>> Okay. And you know, um, I mean, I'd been I because of, you know, Franklin cover up and all of that, I'd been uh talking to people in Omaha. And one day I get a call from these people in Omaha tell me, "Well, there's this guy from Rolling Stone. He's going to break the whole story open."

>> Oh, Nick Bryant.

>> Yeah. And I says to I I heard that and I said, "Sounds to me like a a vacuum cleaner operation."

>> Okay.

>> Basically where they send in somebody to find out who knows what and all kinds of stuff like that.

>> right? And but um I I finally I got a hold of Nick and and we talked and and uh he said well, you know, he was a a member of this group that was in Greenwich Village and he knew everybody in New York City and so he was uh the book was going to come out from New York and I gave him a couple books and said okay, well, remember I'm here and a couple of years later he came back and says, "Yeah, New York isn't going to touch this." And so we did Franklin Scandal. And um uh, you know, and then I, I, I saw Whitney I don't somewhere on, you know, on my computer screen. I said, she seemed like an interesting gal and I got a hold of her and I says, "You, you must have a book in you." And she says, "Yeah, I think I do." And, you know, it took a took a little while because u she got pregnant and COVID and whatnot. And so by the time she delivered it to me, it was, you know, 900,000 pages or something. And I says, "People aren't going to read."

>> 900,000 pages.

>> No. 900 or thousand.

>> Oh, I was going to say, Jesus.

>> And And so, um, I says, you know, people that don't don't like those big of books to read, you know, and and she says, "Well, it's kind of two books." So, we broke it apart. And, um, you know, it just I mean, it really nails it. It shows how, you know, it gives the history of of honey traps, okay? And and to do a honey trap, okay, basically first off, you need a room. You need a building, you know, and then you need some little boys and girls, okay? And then you got to get the whole place wired, you know, for video and sound, okay? And then you're going to need a manager, and the manager is going to want security, okay? So, it's, it's, it's a costly operation. It's a big operation. And um she showed how that in in in the second book that well, you know, we don't need to do a honey trap in a room anymore. All we need to do is be able to hack into somebody's cell phone and we know all about them >> and whatnot. So, you know, how, how does this world really work? Okay. It, it works through uh deceit and secrecy and a lot of blackmail and and stuff like that.

>> And you know, I really think that, you know, now is a time for all good men and women to come to the aid of their country. Okay? And and we can, you know, stand up if, if it, if it takes going in the streets, takes going in the streets. But we need to uh have government of and buy and for the people and not government buy.

>> Yeah. Well, it seems that ship sailed.

>> Well, so what are you what are you going to do? What are you going to do? You just going just going to live with it and say, "Hey, that ship sailed." No. you know, don't, don't, don't you want to have I mean, you know, I mean, you know, I, I the boomers and, you know, right around there, you know, I mean, we're basically a bridge between the analog and the digital. Okay? I mean, when you know, we grew up, I mean, there was you're lucky if you got three TV stations, >> okay? And you know, and it, you know, it's a much different world today. And you know, that's generally how how history goes. But no, I, I, I think that, you know, all the, you know, the constitution is still there. Okay. And a lot of our uh institutions are here. Okay. A bunch of them have been corrupted, but there's no reason why we can't uh uh take them back and have government of and buy and for the people.

>> How do you, how would we do that? How would that happen?

>> Well, um, through voting, through through through through elections.

>> I think people have already lost faith in voting and elections.

>> Well, they have, but uh what, what do you, you know, I, I just, I don't know. You, you've got to uh you got to stand, we got to stand up for our country. We, we got to, we, we have to

>> What was the famous Thomas Jefferson quote? Every certain amount of time, you have to spill the blood of the tyrants on the tree of liberty.

>> Well, if that's what it takes, that's what it takes. Okay. But, you know, I, I think it can be done around a table.

>> 200 years, I think it was.

>> Yeah. And and through through information. I truly do. I think I think it can be done. Um, so, you know, maybe I'm uh maybe I'm just a, you know, silly hippie, but I, I, I truly think that our country is worth spending time and energy to restore.

>> Mhm.

>> You know, I mean, it's, it's, we're people just like uh, you know, the people of that that were in the founding, you know, uh, the founders and, you know, they stood up and I think that uh I think it can be done and and, you know, it, it has to be done through voting and, yeah, um, you know, we had more people not vote than people that voted for either party last time.

>> Really?

>> Yeah. You know, because Yeah. people have lost faith in a lot of things.

>> Yeah. You can't really blame them.

>> Well, I, I understand that. But what, you know, again, what, what are you, what are you going to do? You, you just going to give up and get grifted? Have your, have your country get grifted away? No, you can't give up. I don't know what it is. Is it, Is it, Is it because it seems like it's a problem that's too big to fix? You know, why do people take so much more action over other trivial, not trivial, but other much smaller scale problems in our society because maybe it affects them more directly. Maybe this doesn't affect them as directly.

>> They think so.

>> I don't know.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's um, like I said, this Epstein, this Epstein thing, I would, I would expect full-on anarchy in the streets over something like this. Speaking of Epstein, what, there was a a woman who was a victim of him who you were working on a book.

>> Well, um, she, she wasn't a victim, but uh, she knew four different victims in in South Africa and she was a South African uh lady.

>> What was her connection to Epstein? Which, did she have any connection or she just knew the victims?

>> No, no. She just, she, she had gone to uh some of these um victims in South Africa had gone to the same girl school that she had gone to.

>> Okay.

>> Okay. And so she uh uh this one called her up and and started talking to her before she uh talked to her mom.

>> Mhm.

>> And she had been uh trafficked uh four times or gotten a plane four times from South Africa to go to New York. uh first time she goes to New York uh she barely even gets to New York and they they take her directly to the island and um, you know, she gets and she gets taken to Paris and then the last time uh she got taken to Zoro Ranch and um uh Epstein didn't her there. He, she said that he gave her a uh what she felt like was a pelvic exam and then this survivor woke up in the middle of a uh on a on a medical table with, you know, medical uh instruments up above her and this lady said, "It's okay. Just just go back to sleep." And uh when she got back to South Africa, she had a wound here in her in her belly. And um, it seemed that they were looking at at particular bloodlines and and particular uh blood types and harvesting eggs and, you know, doing eugenics and uh transhumanism and baby farming and and stuff like that. And this this lady connected a whole bunch of these uh links. Um, and then uh a little bit after she signed a contract with us, she started to get harassed. Uh, her place got broke into. She got followed. Um, and they got the the electronic harassment got to be so much that her uh boyfriend went into uh jail with, I mean, not jail, went into hospital with um auditory problems. And she finally had enough and and just walked away from 5 years worth of work. Okay. On a

>> what kind of auditory problems?

>> Uh, that's all I I heard. Okay. Was told was was, you know, auditory.

>> Um, and um, and and this was a book um that was going to, you know, it was going to sell well. It was going to do good for her. Um, because basically she was uh focusing on the scientists instead of the sex part of it all and because, you know,

>> the science of it.

>> Yeah. Because Epstein, you know, wasn't just getting girls and young women. He was getting, you know, all these scientist. Okay. And paying money to have them to get together and paying money to to Harvard for their brain stuff. And and this is very similar to the MK Ultra type stuff because like I said, you know, they move, they, it gets moved around and and like one thing that she brought up in the book is how every uh uh girl when they come into the uh uh Epstein's place, they're brought into the kitchen first and they're given a bottle of water. Okay? And there's all kinds of things that you can put in water like scopalum scopalamine. I can't say the word very well.

>> And and and different things. So um and and then again, you you have these girls and you can, you know, give them one thing and see what happens. Give them another thing. So it, it's continuation of these, you know, MK Ultra type experiments there too. So, um,

>> yeah, and there's those emails with him and Peggy Seagull.

>> Mhm.

>> Peggy Seagull is like the famous New York PR lady, Hollywood lady,

>> where he's emailing her saying, "I need you to help me find my next baby mama."

>> where he's clearly trying to have children.

>> right?

>> And uh she's advising him on how to do it. She's like, "Oh, you got to find some, you know, you got to find a girl who isn't going to get entitled or isn't going to get emotionally attached and all this stuff." Just sick.

>> Well, the, the whole thing is is is is rather sick, don't you think? And and, you know, to go back to your uh um uh question about uh how did they, you know, Epstein, well, you know, his, his, his dad, well, no, that was that was Bar's dad, wasn't it? Yeah, that was that was Donald Bar.

>> Yeah, Donald Bar. Yeah. Yeah.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> And

>> roughly 5,000 emails between Peggy Se se Seagull and Epstein sent between 20 2009 and 2019. F. Can you imagine having 5,000 emails with one person? I don't know if you do. I mean, I, I don't have a thousand emails with one person, I don't think. Uh, yeah, she represented Spielberg, Weinstein, uh, Barry Levenson. Seagull opened up about what she gained from her association with Epstein, who died by suicide in 2019. Sure. Epstein's still alive. You know that, right?

>> Well, you know, I, I hear people tell me that, you know, I mean, we did a uh uh thing in uh LA with Sher Seymour and Hopsicker and at the end somebody came in said, "Kurt Cobain's still alive and all these people are all alive and whatnot." I mean, again,

>> yeah, it sets up dissonance, you know, and stuff. I mean, it, it's, it's again, it's part and parcel

>> of of dividing and conquering and, you know, and creating

>> um dissident.

>> Mhm.

>> Because they don't want to all be on the same page and understand, right? Whether he's alive or not, it doesn't change the fact that we know the truth about him, right? It's just you want to you want to create a that makes sense. But it is just crazy the the the prostate email, the email with the doctor about going over his blood work and his medications and all that and he's like, because the doctor's like in the email, you don't have a prostate, right? And Jeff responds, correct. And in his official autopsy report, they inspected his prostate and it was impeccable. Well, you know, I mean,

>> you know, is that some sort of weird limited hangout or is that just is that insane evidence that he's still alive? You know, it's bonkers,

>> you know. I, I, I don't know. And and and and really can't know. Okay.

>> And and and again, it, it, it creates dissonance and and creates creates it so that uh

>> we're we're fighting. Well, is Epstein alive or not? Not not what they, not what he did and and what all happened to us.

>> Mhm.

>> You know.

>> Mhm. Yeah. And um, the Zoro Ranch thing, I think they just started to investigate that. Right.

>> Right. Right. Yeah.

>> That's the one that was kind of been on the back burner. No one ever paid attention to that one.

>> Yeah. Yeah. No, the the FBI told them don't don't look into that. They told you know, they were the people in New Mexico were going to look into it and they told them not to. Yeah. And I mean, and there, there's underground things there. Um, there's

>> well, the new owner is turning it into a church.

>> He's going to bring That's where Jesus is going to come back when he returns to Zoro Rancher.

>> Oh boy. Oh boy. Well, I, I hope we get pictures, you know.

>> Yeah.

>> Um, but yeah, no, there, the, the thing around the Zoro Ranch, I mean, it's got underground facilities to it. It's got, you know, some very strong um

>> uh communication links there, you know, and then it's in between, you know, uh the Trinity site and and all these uh what they say are DUMBS down there and the aliens and and all that crap, you know. So, I mean, how many rabbit holes you want to go down?

>> Yeah. Are you into the alien rabbit hole or no? Are you checked out on that one?

>> Well,

>> I'm kind of over that one. I, I, you know, I, I do think that, you know, uh, there, it's a big universe and there, there's a good chance that there's there's other people out there. Okay. But I

>> You think we got him though? Do you think we captured them? You think we did a deal with them? That's the question.

>> Well, you know what, when you start to, I mean, you know, I've been looking at conspiracy literature for a long time. Okay. I know. So, I, you know, I've got a whole bunch of UFO books and, you know, read a lot of them. And the funny thing is, is you end up with a lot of spooks. Okay. When when you go into theirs and then Exactly. And then, you know, the crazy thing about

>> Well, we we got transistors from that thing in Roswell. Yeah.

>> I mean, you can track that history down. That ain't true. Okay. And them saying that we got Velcro from that thing, too. You can track that down. And that's not true.

>> It's not true that we got Velcro out of it. That was So the two guys who wrote the book the day after Roswell,

>> Corso, was that one of them? And then the other guy threw in the the duck, the not the duct tape, the Velcro

>> which allegedly was fake, right? There was no Velcro found there.

>> Um, do you know how familiar are you with Jock Jacqu Valet?

>> Oh, not a lot. you know, he was basically one of the guys uh that they used for uh the, you know, close encounters of the third kind. He was, you know, he was he was there and he, you know, he talks about

>> um, you know, a lot of the UFOs could be, you know,

>> um psychotic type things

>> and and and and different things. And, you know,

>> it's interesting, right? I've never heard that before until I mean, I haven't read I haven't read any of his books yet, but I had Peter Leventa on here recently and he was explaining to me. I was asking him like,

>> I'm like, if you were the CIA and you wanted to figure out what UFO, what the phenomenon was. I'm like, what, how would you figure that out? And he was like, he goes, if I was in charge of the CIA and I want to figure out exactly what it was, I would go hunt down all of the ex experiencers or abductees and I would study and dissect their minds to the deepest possible way I could to figure out what it was. He thinks the secret to the phenomenon is buried in the human psyche or something like that.

>> Well, it's been shown, you know, I can't remember which one, but that they were, you know, um parts of uh mind control experiments. uh uh some of these have been shown to have been and it's a uh, you know, I mean, uh, let's look in the Bible. Let me see. We got all kinds of beings in the Bible, don't we? You know, cheraban, sarapin, all these. This lady, Diana Pulka, the religious studies expert who wrote that uh she wrote a couple recent books. Um, anyways, Jacqu Valet was one of her main sources for her first book, which was, why is the name of that? American Cosmic. Was her first book. And she went to Jacques Valet's home in San Francisco and she was looking through his library and they were talking and all this stuff and he had this incredible personal library of books about archangels and demons and stuff like that. And he handed her this book and said, "If you really want to understand the UFO phenomenon, you have to read this book." She took the book and it was called The History of Satan and it had 666 pages and it was all French. And she actually sent it to me. We should show this, Steve. I'm gonna send you because me and Kurt Mezer were looking for this the other day on the podcast and Diana sent me a picture of it.

>> The book of Satan.

>> Of the actual book that we were searching for. This is the cover of it and it was I spent forever trying to find it. I just sent it to you on um AirDrop. Steve.

>> Your mind always makes up something that you, you know, if you can't understand something, it'll it'll it'll show.

>> It'll fill in the gaps. Yeah. Yeah. This is the book.

>> So, if anybody out there watching or listening uh has ever come across this book or if you ever come across this book, let us know because we want to find it and we want to translate it into uh English. See if you can actually find do some more research on that, Steve. See what you can find.

>> Yeah.

>> So,

>> but yeah, I mean, the Bible is, you know, full of crazy stories that sound like UFOs.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, uh, a wheel within a wheel, all that kind of stuff, you know, and,

>> um, well, let me see. There's a bunch of people there on that mountain. Bunch of them go away.

>> I found it.

>> We would have to get uh AI to translate it for us. It's in French, right?

>> $50 shipping and handling. Oh my gosh. Uh,

>> it's worth it.

>> Yeah, I believe it is in French. All All of this is. Yeah. Wait, can I translate whatever

>> crazy stuff, man?

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> So, um, back to that woman, um, who wrote the butterfly. Was it something about the butterfly that lady? Yeah, Sarah McCarthy called Blue Butterfly based on

>> um, the uh uh Juliet Bryant was the survivor and she had a diary that had a Blue Butterfly on it that she had taken with her and and she had allowed Sarah to copy it and read it and and so that was the title of the book and that I found it interesting that uh Virginia Graph and and other you the butterflies kind of become a symbol for the Epstein survivors. And then earlier, you know, you had uh

>> um, oh, like uh the big the monarch program here supposedly.

>> Yeah. The, is it called MK Monarch or something like that,

>> right? Is off of the uh puppet. It comes from a puppetry name kind of in in German. Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. What, what is the background of that?

>> Well, again, it's, it's, it's a program where they are getting children when they're very, very young. Okay. And traumatizing them and and creating altars.

>> Yes.

>> And and then, you know, um, using that as a uh as a as a mechanism, as a as a as a control mechanism. And uh uh Fritz Springmire was uh he, he wrote a lot about it. And I, I know Fritz. He's from Oregon, too. And uh you've got to take Fritz's work with uh a grain of salt always because

>> And he even talks about there. He says, "I just find this stuff and I throw it up in the air and see what happens." Because

>> I was uh I became friends with a with a person that that Fritz said had been murdered. And he, he, he wasn't murdered. So, you have to be careful with with Fritz's work, but there's there's a lot of good stuff in there.

>> Yeah. Was it um was it Virginia Guay who did the the portrait of all the people

>> in Epstein's life? The crazy portrait that was in the documentary that had Wexner was like the middle.

>> There's there seems to me there's there's another one of the survivors that has become a big painter.

>> Yeah. What is the famous painting from the Epstein victim? Um, I think it was Virginia Virginia Roberts, maybe.

>> Yeah, I, I can't remember the name. Sorry.

>> See if you can find the the painting, Steve. It's got Wexner's head in the middle of it, like a demon.

>> But it was crazy because it was really um interesting how Wexner was the center, the central figure in all of it.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There it is on the top left, I believe.

>> Yeah, that's it. He's the head of the snake. Yeah.

>> That's just a little piece of it, Steve.

>> There's the big There's the big one.

>> Yeah, it's Maria Farmer. Maria Farmer.

>> Maria Farmer. Right. Right. Right.

>> Oh, you can only find a tiny photo of it, huh?

>> Yeah, it's linked to a Facebook account. Hold on.

>> There's got to be a better way to find it other than Facebook, bro. You're not going to find it in the comments.

>> Yeah, there you go. Oh god. Anyways,

>> so did we land on the moon? I don't think so. What do you think?

>> You know, I, I, I don't know. I don't know. I bet.

>> Look at that. There's a full There's a full um panorama of it in it in its glory. So, you got Ghislaine Maxwell's a dinosaur

>> and you have Leslie Wexner. He's like a peacock

>> and his head is connected to the underworld where you got looks like Bezos there. I don't know who that guy is. Um, I'm, I'm assuming these are all like political folks or billionaires. Is that Trump right there?

>> That looks like on TV or is that Clinton?

>> That's Clinton on TV. Look at that. Oh my god. That's the face. Holy That's the face of Clinton during See if this was what year this was painted because that looks just like the face, facial expression Clinton made during the 2016 debate when Trump paraded all of those women did the press conference with all the women that accused Clinton of rape. You remember that during the 2016 debates?

>> Yeah. Paula Jones.

>> Yeah. And he and he literally said that on the debate on the debate stage with Hillary on national TV in front of probably the biggest audience on television history. And uh it goes to Clinton's face right when Trump says that. And these are guys that used to be friends before that. They were friends up leading up to this, right? And then Trump basically burns the bridge permanently forever during that debate, right? And now, how strange is it that you have now that these files come out, Trump is going, "I really like Bill. I don't want to see him get hurt in any of this stuff. I think he's innocent." And then you have Clinton during his deposition doing the same thing. "I think Trump's innocent." Crazy. Um, and who is that up on top? Who are the angels? Oh my god. Go to the right. What a crazy photo.

>> I would like to see an analysis. Oh, look at the owl. I would love to see an analysis of like who all the the different people are in this. Um, anyways, yeah, the moon. Yeah. What do you think? You think you think we went to the moon?

>> You know, I, I, I don't know. And my my big um why I really wonder about it,

>> okay, is you know, supposedly there was this big um alchemical operation, okay, to control the world, okay? And you know, first was to u destroy primortal matter, okay? The killing of the king and then bringing the stars back to Earth. You had to do those three things. Okay.

>> Destroying primortal matter was uh the atomic bomb at the Trinity site on the 33rd degree parallel.

>> Okay. The killing of the king is killing of Kennedy.

>> King kill.

>> Right next to the Trinity River. Okay. 33rd degree.

>> Okay. And then the bringing the star uh stars back to Earth was supposedly bringing the moon rocks back to Houston. Okay. So if, if they didn't go to the moon, okay, that last part they didn't complete. Okay. And they used, you know, subterfuge to say that we did, you know. So I mean

>> subterfuge. What do you mean?

>> Um, lying.

>> I, I, I, I'm a community college dropout. Sorry.

>> Okay. I didn't I didn't graduate my college myself. I started a record store. Um, subterfuge, you know, uh, underhanded dealing, you know, basically

>> trying to, you know, saying, "Hey, yeah, we, we, we did it, you know,

>> but, you know,

>> so you got to manipulate matter. You got to bring a star back to Earth. And what else?

>> Killing of the king.

>> And kill the king.

>> Right.

>> Right. Those were the three things.

>> Oh, that explains why there's a whole I just learned a couple weeks ago that there's a conspiracy theory out there that nukes aren't real, that they're fake. Oh yeah. Yeah. That's

>> Are you familiar with that one?

>> Oh yeah. That that comes from a a old older book. And he, he basic, he's not saying that nukes aren't fake. He's saying that nukes only work at particular times.

>> Huh.

>> Is, is what it says. And it, it, it's a pretty crazy book. But

>> what is the basis of it? Why would they only work at certain times?

>> You know, uh, I don't remember. I read that book, Lord have mercy, probably 30 years ago. What was it? You remember the title?

>> No. Okay.

>> No. I, I could find it out for you and get it back to

>> and then Okay. So, to kill the king, bring a star back, and to manipulate matter, what happens if you do all that?

>> And you're supposed to be able to rule the world.

>> You rule the world according to who?

>> Uh, this came out from uh James Shelby Downward. Okay. And if you, James Shelby Downward was the first guy that came out with the whole King Kill 33 type uh thing. Okay. And that was first printed in u oh Adam Perf Fereral House, one of the Fereral House books, Secret and Suppressed or something like that. And uh he's done a couple books out of he basically James Shelby Downard was one of the little kids that was used in Masonic rituals and where he started learning about that.

>> Interesting.

>> Yeah, he's he's got some wild books out. He, he, he's since passed.

>> Are you familiar with this whole Pax Judeaica end times prophecy?

>> No.

>> It's a wild one. Basically, the theory is, I'm sure you've seen the recent uh news stories about how there were a bunch of people in the military, about 14, I think it was 14 different branches of the military filed uh leg um public complaints to the arm or to another branch of the military, basically saying that their commanders in their military units were telling them. And they all had the same stories and all these different complaints across the military that in for the Iran war, that their commanders said to them that Trump was anointed by Jesus to bring the return of Christ or something, something along these lines. This was like a biblical holy war that's commanded by the Bible or something like this.

>> Yeah. Well, yeah. I, I heard about that. I, you know, I, I don't know a lot about it. I mean, it, it sounds something like he would, I mean, he just said that, you know, u for Jesus, you have to make the save act happen. I mean, um, I, I find it rather uh, I don't know if you, it wouldn't go as far as blasphemy, but it's, it's, it's pretty out there.

>> Pretty crazy.

>> Yeah. And you know, I mean, if he's doing that to bring Christ back, where's the Antichrist?

>> So that's the thing. So that, so that's the whole Pax Judeaica theory. So this, this Pax Judea conspiracy theory is basically that the Israeli government is trying to cause chaos around the world by doing this Iran war, creating this religious holy war between uh Muslims and Christians and the Jews. And um by doing all this, they will bring back the Antichrist by creating all this chaos, starting all these wars everywhere, and also intentionally stoking anti-semitism at the same time, which is happening. You have, you have, you know, different, if you go online, basically, you can't escape it. It's people, there's there's low IQ Jew hate and there's actual legitimate criticism of the Israeli government. Um, and the idea is if they are doing that intentionally, which it kind of seems like they are, they could encourage the diaspora to all move to Israel where they could be safe. And if they get the diaspora to go back to the holy land and at the same time bring back the Antichrist, they will bring in they will usher in the messianic messianic age somehow. And uh, this is the whole Pax Judeaic. I'm think I'm missing a couple elements.

>> Well, you know, Hitler was gonna, you know, there's going to be a thousand-year Reich. And I mean, all right, this is something that goes down through history all, you know, you have different different things saying, you know, well, we do this, the, you know, Lord's going to bless us or or whatnot or or or Messiah and different. I mean, I've got a a writer um well, I mean, I don't have, I published some of his books. Uh, Chris Bennett. Oh, okay. Uh, he mostly writes about talked to Chris Bennett.

>> Yeah, we interviewed him.

>> Yeah, we just talked to him.

>> Yeah. About about cannabis, but he's done big big a lot of study about uh uh apocalypse and and

>> Yeah, he's been looking into all this stuff.

>> and and and the uh, you know, I mean, apocalypse means uh everything known. And then Armageddon means, you know, a big big massive war. You know, I'd rather see apocalypse where where everything is known rather than than Armageddon myself. But again, you know, it, it comes down from from choices, okay, that that people made. Now, you know, uh, you asked me earlier about secret societies, and one of them I mentioned was Chabbad.

>> Oh, yes, Chabbad. We never covered that.

>> And you know, Chabbad is basically a

>> Chabad Lubavitch or something.

>> It's basically a sect that um they all it comes back to a particular uh city and I think it's in Barus. Okay. M

>> and you have to be from that particular city to be a leader in it. And you find these, you know, uh, these people all around Putin and you also find them all around Netanyahu.

>> And so, yeah, I do I think that these people are using uh geopolitical games to uh uh play games with people. I mean, you know,

>> or their religious ideologies.

>> I mean, Netanyahu would be in jail if he wasn't president. Good chance that Trump would be in jail if he wasn't president, too, you know. So,

>> why would Trump be in jail again?

>> Well, let me see. Um, he had this thing down here in Florida that they they stopped about, you know, him having u classified information

>> and whatnot. And then, I mean, trying to put him in jail.

>> Yeah, he is an adjudicated u felon. You know, 30 34 felons. You know, you, you do go to jail for things.

>> What were the 34 felonies?

>> Um, falsifying business records among

>> Oh, really? Okay.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. And then there was a whole the whole Russia gate thing was debunked, though. That was all a political

>> No, it wasn't debunked.

>> It, it was a Hillary Clinton scam. She was she was pulling off an operation.

>> No, it wasn't. It, the, the first people to pay for that thing were actually Republicans. Okay. They dropped it. Okay. And then Hillary uh started paying that uh again. But that's just, you know, that's opposition research and stuff and it, it, it's really um I mean, I, I definitely think that there are people that have blackmailable stuff on Trump, one of them being Putin and the other ones being Netanyahu.

>> Oh.

Okay. "How dare you say that?"

"How dare I say?" Well, it it's quite in our face, really.

"I know, but nobody wants to no one wants to say it. Even the even the like hardcore the people that that that supported Trump the most during this recent election are criticizing the hell out of everything he's doing, but they'll walk right up to the line of saying that Trump himself is implicated in it. They they won't touch it, you know?"

"Well, it's just like, well, wow, we have this country the size of New Jersey in the Middle East that will do bend over backwards for and there's this invisible sort of something that exists. They're so they have this invisible leverage that we cannot identify. What is it?"

"Well, they've been given a lot of money to people, you know, and"

"Yeah, but like still like they can't control the president."

"It's, you know, well, it's called One Nation under blackmail."

"Yes. Exactly."

"You know."

"Exactly."

"And and I mean it it really doesn't, you know, take a lot to to understand the profidity that's going on. Okay. And I mean"

"The what what was the word you used?"

"Profidity."

"Profidity. Okay."

"Okay. And the uh the the whole uh vote thing. I mean, Hopsicker, who used to live here in Florida, um did a thing, uh you know, about the vote voting machines and how um oh, he was working in Louisiana and I mean, and they showed, you know, well, you press here and you say you're voting for here, but actually the vote goes to here, okay, to the other person. So, I mean, there's been ways of stealing the vote here for quite a while. Yeah. Okay. uh mob has been a lot behind it. Okay? Because um"

"You know the the mob is at the situation where oh let me see this guy likes prostitutes. Oh this guy blah blah blah blah. Okay. I mean they've been do using the blackmail card for a long long time. Okay. So"

"told us one in the book"

"and uh uh so there's no reason that we can't have honest elections. Okay. I mean, we have the digital capability right now, okay, of having honest elections, knowing, you know, who who voted how. I mean, you know, we could be doing um, you know, digital uh, voting, you know, we could we could be doing things like that."

"Yeah. But doesn't that just open the door up for more fraud?"

"Um, not if you put enough eyes on it."

"Not if you put enough eyes on it. Okay. you can get if you get, you know, um"

"Yeah, but what eyes? That's the whole thing. How do you know?"

"Get those eyes, you know, have have some of them um uh uh elected, have some of them just chosen, you know, h have it have it done by by a lottery, you know, or or or different things. But if you get you get enough eyes, okay, we we've got the ability uh um to understand I mean h how do they track these people down for um child all this stuff? It's not because they're walking around with a little sign says, "Hey, I like child, right?" You know, they're able to, you know, um look in their email box or something like that and and figure things out. So I mean we you know there is the technology out to have a u country that isn't you know susceptible to blackmail and susceptible to a lot of things. We could have an honest country. We really could. But we have to you know put up with"

"I don't know man. I think that the people who are interested in leading people are inherently they have some sort of something built into their psyche where they're just going to do whatever they can to serve their own personal interests."

"Pick the jobs by lottery."

"Sociopathy."

"Pick the jobs by lottery."

"Yeah. like the ancient Greeks did."

"I don't know."

"Yeah. I I mean, we're doing this uh book called The Psychopathology of Totalarianism."

"Uhhuh."

"Okay. You know, and what is it's a sickness that these people bring to want to have, you know, absolute control and control over everybody. And, you know, that's not what this country was built upon."

"Mhm."

"And you know, there's there's people that, you know, oh, want to say, "Oh, well, we can't have multiculturalism. We can't." Well, you know, we've had multiculturalism in this country ever since it's began."

"Mhm."

"You know, and we ought to listen to the Indians, too. The Indians have a lot of nice thing. The American Indians and and the Indian Indians have a lot of nice things to say. I mean, there's there's so much that we can learn from lots of different people. There's this old prophecy about how there's the five races and they come to a table and they each have something to bring to the table for us to learn how to be humanity."

"And I think that's true. You know, there there's a lot that that that we can learn to make our country a better place, okay? And and there's no reason that we have to put up with all this crap and BS. There really isn't. Okay? Except these guys, you know, want to push it down. You know, I have these conversations with some uh lefties, I guess they are, or whatnot. But uh because it's my contention, my posit, okay, is that we have this secret societal system that's up here."

"Okay. Your next solid level is sovereign countries. Okay. And in between the secret societal level,"

"so wait, so wait, Jeffrey Epste is in the secret society level."

"Yeah. Okay."

"Yeah. Because in this secret societal level"

"because I always thought there was a separate I'm sorry to interrupt you but I always thought there was a a distinction between the Jeffrey Epstein layer and then the bankers layer like the Rothschilds."

"Well there you've got the secret societal level. Your next solid level is is the sovereign countries. And in between this, okay, you've got intelligence agencies, right? Okay. Religious organizations, fraternal organizations, criminal organizations, okay? And then they're able to, you know, go down into the sovereign countries and they don't have to affect everybody in that but just maybe one or two people and and get it to to go to the direction that they want. Sure. And then you have the situation where these secret societies are not bound to a country. Okay? They'll trash their own country if it if it if it serves the goals of the secret societal system. Okay? So, um it's a uh so it's almost not like anarchy, right? It's not just nation states for them because the idea of all these nation states just competing for power is sort of like is sort of like anarchy at the highest level. But if if it's true what you're saying that there are this globally governing order of secret societies that are manipulating the nation states, that's crazy. That's like a that's like a that's like a 4D level of order."

"Well, you know, and and I mean they they don't have as, you know, solid control in in every country, but they"

"Right. Right. Right. They just try to move the needle like as much as they can"

"through, you know, and through the intelligence agencies and the criminal gangs. Okay, that gives them you know a lot of power and a lot of you know insight. Okay. As to well, let me see what person in this country do I want. Well, this guy, you know, he really likes to go to the prostitutes all the time. Blah blah blah, you know, and and different things. So, so, but I have this conversation with these people because it's my posit that the secret societal system imposes itself upon the sovereign countries which then imposes upon us people. Yes."

"Okay. And they're saying that the dynamic is that's not the dynamic. The dynamic is just class warfare. It's just, you know, us with pitchforks, okay? And and the people up here trying to, you know, stay being the people up there, okay? But to me, it's a lot more organized than just people saying, "Oh, I want to be the rich person. I want to be the rich person." You know, it's it's I mean, they're they're imposing their will. Okay? and and you know they'll use you know people uh like Trump because I mean he he's an easy mark okay you know you can you can uh uh"

"which level is he on by the way because he seems to be have his foot in both worlds kind of"

"well again would you play a little game call I call it the cat bird seed"

"the cat bird seed"

"okay"

"okay let's say that this does exist. This secret societal organization up there exists. Okay. Let's say you're the guy running it. You're the you're the cat bird. Okay."

"What would you do? How would how would you run things?"

"How would I run things?"

"Yeah. How would you What would you do?"

"I would try to like Yeah, I would try to make sure that my bloodline survives and that I have a way to escape the earth when apocalypse finally happens and make sure the world doesn't burn,"

"right? And you have all these uh rich people uh buying bunkers and everything, right? Yes. Too, don't you?"

"Yes."

"You know, and you know, I mean,"

"this is one of the things that Katherine Fitz talks about."

"Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, you if you actually had a uh largecale nuclear exchange. Okay. H how how long you got to be in a bunker?"

"A long time."

"Yeah. Yeah. you know. So, um, but the people that would survive the longest are the guys that are in the nuclear submarines. They would be there until they ran out of water or food. Isn't there a book about that?"

"Probably. Right. What book are you talking about?"

"Isn't On the Beach something like that?"

"I don't know. I don't even know that book."

"Oh, okay."

"What's the name of it?"

"On the beach."

"It's just called On the Beach."

"Yeah. Yeah. and and but yeah, so uh again I you know I I I just really see that you know that's what we're up against is is a secret societal system that is using those different levels levers to to screw with our sovereign countries that then screws with us."

"Okay. So um"

"what would you do if you were the one that ran the secret societies?"

"Um, I'd out him."

"I'd out him."

"How would you do that?"

"Um,"

"go on a podcast."

"Put Sure. Put them on podcast. No one will believe Put everything out on the internet. believe you,"

"right? Well, you know, that's what I told my dad, okay? You know, because he he told me, he says, you know, I I you know, I couldn't tell you for 10 years. And well actually I didn't tell him that but I thought about it later on because you know he told me and I was his son and I didn't believe him"

"right"

"you know so so so because I I I got to thinking I says you know if dad had talked it wouldn't have made any difference because nobody would have believed him anyway"

"you know and I mean I've been talking about the secret societal system now for Lord have mercy"

"good 26 years if not longer"

"okay And um I mean when I first started talking about it, there was uh very few people I could even talk to. And then I found that the people that I could talk to that we could, you know, have some understandings were people that had a wide view of something."

"Mhm."

"Okay. Had a had a wide view and could see, you know, uh the different changes. But, you know, there's no reason why we the people cannot be in charge. Okay? There's no reason to have these other folks uh in charge. I mean, you know, our our our money and you know, it was one of the, you know, after the SpanishAmerican War and they got their hooks into us real deep. Okay, that was one of the things that they did. They says, "Oh, well, let me see. Uh, let's get an income tax. Okay, which isn't really a wasn't a tax on wages. Okay, and then oh well, we'll get fake money. Okay, the Federal Reserve. Oh, well, once you got that in place, what do you do? Well, you get the people in debt. Okay, World War I. Okay, and then World War II. And in World War II, they did a thing. They says, "Oh, we got to beat them Japs and Huns, you know, we got to and we're going to have a a victory tax, okay? And you know what? We aren't even going to make you lick a stamp. We're going to go directly to your employer and grab it." Okay? That's where withholding started. Okay? And what that did because before then about 20% of the American population paid income tax because income tax isn't on wages. Okay? But they keep dumbing us down. they keep dumbing us down. Okay. And um uh so once they got withholding in, it was about 60% of the population was was paying. So they got a lot more money there to to fiddle with."

"Okay. And and so um these these these taxes and and and war and all of this stuff. I mean, I do a thing a round table with uh the Fitzgeralds, Paul Paul and Liz Fitzgerald. And Paul is a Fitzgerald of of related to Honey Fitz, uh JFK's uh grandfather. And one thing that um we found in there Oh, Lord, I'm getting getting tired."

"That's all right. We're almost done. You want to wrap it up? Oh, let me see if I can remember this. Um, oh, well, we we've been doing Oh. Oh, we It's been based around uh JFK's uh peace speech that he gave at um I think it was June of 63 at American University. Mhm."

"And you know, um, we live we live on one planet. I mean, you know, we've had people go up in space and take pictures of it so we can see it."

"Allegedly."

"No, those are those are quite real. They they can you can you can you can you can take take a bank on that. And uh so, you know, we're all living on on on one planet, okay? And so we we need to learn uh to get along. And uh so and the other thing that that we discovered that there was a guy by the name of Henry George."

"Okay. He was like the uh second biggest speaker behind Mark Twain in the late 1800s and early 1900s."

"And he he did a thing about land rents. Okay. Okay. And it's basically a uh a taxing thing that kind of oh makes capitalism a little bit more friendly, a little bit more moral."

"Okay. And they buried him. They buried him. You know, um"

"land rents."

"Yeah. Land rents."

"What was the what was the basis of it?"

"Uh it's about uh taking the money from you base the the the the taxes on the land and its potential. Okay. So when like when a landlord just sits there and lets the the apartment house go to heck and and stuff like that,"

"u it it's no advantage to them. And it they've done it in in uh some cities in Pennsylvania where cities have gone from being, you know, everything boarded up um to a a viable economy. Uh they're starting to talk about it in in Maryland. Uh one they set up the whole um part of Chicago uh University of Chicago by the Rockefellers economics to completely bury Henry George. Okay. And uh a person does a Google, they'll they'll find out about it, but it's just an an incredible thing."

"And uh so onwards to a better future for our children."

"I agree. I hope uh I hope we can do something like that. Um I love your optimistic outlook."

"Well, thank you"

"and thank you for doing this."

"My pleasure. tell people where they can find you and find your uh your publishing company, your all the books that you publish and get a hold of you, all that jazz."

"Well, it's it's trying day.com. T r i ney.com. We've got about 180ome books up there and been doing it for 26 years. Can't get a Wikipedia page. People have set up Wikipedia pages and they get taken down."

"That's probably a good sign in the long run. That's what that's what people tell me and you know and because it's been very interesting the basic uh stance on our books is to uh ignore us. I mean they tried the the second book I did expendable elite. I had to go to uh court in in Charleston, South Carolina because the the special forces association said I had to declare this book fiction. This was written by a lieutenant colonel. the only lieutenant colonel I know that didn't graduate from high school"

"and um it was uh oh about the W house which are a militant Buddhist sect in in Vietnam but my dad had been in Vietnam in 56 so I'd done a bunch of studies so I knew the book was true and so this uh hippie from Oregon and a lieutenant colonel from New York went to court in South Carolina and got a unanimous verdict And so we got to p publish the book as uh non-fiction."

"Wow."

"But it's been interesting. There's been lots of attempts to try and put us out of business, but I'm a stubborn sob and my mama was a very nice lady."

"And you're still trucking, man."

"Amen."

"I love it. Well, thanks again for your time, man. This has been really fun."

"Well, thank you. And I hope I wasn't too confusing."

"No, you were great. We'll link all your stuff below. And uh that's it. Good night, folks."