Transcription
Brother Osma Shurafa, founder of Muslim Hub Club and the author of the afterlife manual. Thank you so much for joining the Saudi podcast once again.
Habibi, the honor is all mine. True honor. I have been really wanting to talk to you lately because I was not satisfied or done with our last conversation. I felt like we left a lot of things untouched, and it placed me on a spiritual journey, one where I really honed in on tawa, one where I really looked at my own thoughts and my daily scheduling, how I'm waking up, and how I'm going to sleep and when.
Um, and I'm not going to lie, the improvement in my life has been drastic. Alhamdulillah. And that's why when people asked me on my story on Instagram the other day, who's been one of the most impactful people, I couldn't lie, it has been you and our conversations. I learn just along with everyone else when I do podcasts.
Um, and one of the top questions that I think has been on you and I's mind is, how do we know Allah for who he truly is?
Mashallah. You know, that's a very important question because it really builds the foundation for, you know, because the one who knows himself knows his Lord. And so everything that we know about the universe, think of it this way: everything that we know about the outside world, the universe, is filtered through our finite minds. So we have to first define the mind. And we're going to define the mind as most people think of it, like as a container that contains thoughts and perception, you know, seeing, hearing. The mind is thinking and perceiving. Okay. Perceiving very simply, the five senses. You then add onto perceiving conceiving, which is just another word for thinking. Okay. Thoughts, and the thought adds its own layer of conceptual knowledge to the knowledge that our sense perceptions give us. So, is there any experience we know that is not mediated through the finite mind? Only that experience will give us direct access to reality. We can't go outwards.
But check this out. What we have to do is, what? We have to go actually, in a sense, backwards or inwards through the layers of experience, through feelings, through sensations, through perceptions. But if we go all the way back behind the content of thoughts and perceptions, we arrive at one experience. What is it? Awareness. Consciousness. This is the only experience that is not mediated by the finite mind. It is the of Allah. Whosoever knows themselves knows their Lord.
The mind contains two lenses: a lens of thought and a lens of perception. And Allah says in the Quran, this ayah boggled me for so long. "Wherever you turn your faces, there is the face of God." In the essence, the of God. But I look right now at the screen, I don't see God. I see Ansari. I see Mahmood. I look to my right, I see a wall. I look down here, I see a microphone. But Allah says, "Everywhere you turn, there is the essence of God." So, what, what is going on here? Mind is the filter of reality. And God created space-time. So He cannot be bound by His creation. He's beyond space. What do we call something that is beyond space? That is not contained by space? Infinite. What do we call something that is not contained by time? Eternal. And we know Allah is infinite and Allah is eternal. So Allah is saying, wherever, basically, you look, you should see these attributes of eternity and infinity.
Think of the perceived world as worldly phenomena or appearances, just form. They have no real. The reality is the of them, but they themselves, they're just appearances. Just like the movie on the TV screen, the movie veils the screen. Like when you're watching the movie, you're distracted by it. It's veiling the screen. Just in the same way as the means of this world or the worldly phenomena, the sun, the moon, the galaxies, the stars, they veil God's that is mediated through the. And now we connect it all with the Quran.
Allah says in the Quran, in, I've mentioned this to you before, but I want to expand on it. Allah says, Allah talks about eternity. Remember that I am time where we spoke about it last time. Allah says, "Was there a was there any portion of eternity within time that this insan was nothing but I decided to create him? To test him." So get this. How are you going to test us? Ya Allah, we gave him the ability to perceive. We cracked open his hearing and his seeing. Yani, that is the platform of the test. Allah is saying, I'm going to simulate a world for you that is actually within you. It's not outside of you, but it's going to appear that way. It's going to be like this hardcore simulation as a test.
Another verse, He says, "It is He who brought you forth from the wombs of your mothers when you knew nothing and He gave you hearing and sight and minds that perhaps you would be grateful."
And now, this thing that I want to share with you revolutionized the way I look at everything and really increased my. You spoke about tawa and how that helped you. If you take this, internalize it, you're never going to look at the world the same again. The of Allah is not borrowed by creation. Most people think that Allah just, the Big Bang, He started it all. He gave everything its rules and conditions and the rules of physics and chemistry. This is how everything's going to function. And then it's like God sitting and watching. Everything's a program that's running. The simulation's running independent of God. And then every once in a while, if God decides to interfere, He can. But generally speaking, He just built it. He programmed it and He hit run, execute, and the program's being run. No. That's called theism. It's not monotheism. That's theism. No, the world is not. It has no independent ability to cause things to happen. Creation, or the of Allah, is it, it's an appearance or form mediated by sense perception. It is a test. Allah created the world as a veil to His activity.
So now, what we are saying is, what? That Allah subhana wa ta'ala, He, His remains with His essence. What you're seeing of the worldly phenomena, they're just veils. Can you define the power of Allah? Think of it that simply. The might, the mighty power of Allah, it remains with Him. He's doing everything. So, for example, most people say, "Okay, the, the light, the sun gives light." I say, "No, Allah created the sun. Allah gives light." Okay, so what's Allah's light? Is it mediated through the sun? The sun is just a veil. It's a camouflage. That's a good word to help really kind. It's just a camouflage for what's happening behind the scenes. Allah is making it appear as if there's something called the sun that's giving light. But in reality, Allah, it is Allah that gives light.
Most people when they're sick, they think of medicine. And I say, Allah created objects that you perceive, but He's also the creator of sensations that you feel. How is it so? Well, He created you weak, so you have needs. So one day, hick, you're going to feel the need to drink. "I'm thirsty." So then you're going to look out at the world and usually you're like, "Oh, wait. I've seen it. I'm You were conditioned to believe that water quenches thirst because you're a dog." I mean that in the most respectful way.
What do you mean? I'm a dog? Because of the Pavlov dog experiment that we might have discussed before. Pavlov was a scientist. He noticed that his dog, every time, you know, he puts food in front of him, he drools because his saliva comes down, he's excited, right? He eats. So he said, "I wonder if I could produce this saliva through association." So he decides, like, "I'm going to ring a bell, then I'm going to put food in front of the dog." And then the dog hears the bell ring, then he puts food, he drools, he eats. He did the same experiment again and again. Then one day he rang the bell, but didn't put the food. What happened with the dog? It drooled. It was just salivating, salivating even though there was no food in front of it. Why? It was conditioned. It associated. Carefully. It associated the ringing of the bell with what? With food appearing. It associated.
What are we supposed to do with associations? What do we say about? We're not supposed to associate any partners with Allah. They're just, it's not the, the, the clouds and rain is an association. The clouds don't cause the rain to come down. There's just an association between clouds and rain. Because every time usually the wind blows, you see clouds, then you see rain. So you're like, "Oh, if this happens a few times, you're like, okay, so every time I see clouds, rain comes. So hence, you know, clouds produce rain." That's a fallacy. Clouds don't cause. The only cause of anything is Allah subhana wa ta'ala. But these are just camouflages.
Why? Why Allah, are you putting us through all this? Because there's only two types of people on earth: the people of truth and the people of falsehood. The people of truth and the people of falsehood. You know, Darth Vader, Luke Skywalker, people of light, the people of darkness. The people of truth, their basis is iman, and the people of falsehood, their basis is shirk and power and money, wealth. And so power and wealth is based on the seen. Remember what Pharaoh said? He said, "Am I not the king of Egypt? And these rivers flow beneath me, and I control agriculture. I'm the one that provides for you. Do you not see?" But for the believers in this book, there is no doubt, guidance for the God-conscious. What is the first quality of the God-conscious? Those who believe in the unseen. System of Allah. Allah's believe in Allah and the unseen system. What's the unseen system? Allah created the means of this world, the worldly phenomena as pointers to a bigger reality, a reality, something other than it. Everything in the universe is just a pointer to that reality. And He camouflaged His activity, His doing, behind the worldly phenomena and the means to test the believer. Is he going to believe that the worldly phenomena can benefit or harm, or is it Allah that benefits and harms? That's it. That is it.
If you understand that the of Allah does not leave Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala, that it's with Him, that He's the one operating, He's the one doing, He's the, there's only Allah subhana wa ta'ala. Everything else is a manifestation, an appearance, a form. And the reality of everything that we see is the of which is the. Without the, none of this form can stand. Without the TV screen, there can be no movie. The world is God's motion picture. Your perceiving is God's creation. Your thoughts are ultimately God's creation. Your sensations are God's creation. It's all a simulation. Allah is just creating the circumstances.
Any circumstance, like you got in a car accident, you argued with your wife, there's a problem at work, there's the believer, there's nothing that distracts him from Allah. He doesn't have to be doing and praying to be conscious of Allah subhana wa ta'ala. Anything, if you just see Allah in it, in the sense, see Allah's in it, see that Allah is doing it, it turns into a beautiful thing. It's no longer just some random thing happening because now you get it. You speak God's language. You speak the language of light. So every time something happens to you, you're like, "What's God getting at?" It's all Him, man. There's nothing. You right now moving, playing with your beard, with your this, your thinking, the thoughts going in your mind. That smile that He just put on your face. He said, "It is Him that made you smile. It is Him that makes you cry." Emotions are a creation of Allah. How can you escape? There's no, there's no you back door. You can't find a spot where I'm going to go to the corner away from God. If you're rich and you create these, you know, massive, you know, uh, what is it called? Like fortresses and you want to hide from Allah, He'll get you through the emotions. He'll create depression in your heart. You'll have to take pills to go to sleep. He'll control the effect. You'll sleep and you won't feel rested. You'll feel depressed. He can do anything. He's the creator of emotions, the creator of perceptions and sensations. So where are you going to go?
So the believer, when this light enters, nothing distracts him. That distraction is called, is called heedlessness. Insan is from the word to forget. And through dhikr, through the remembrance of Allah, the in the heart is strengthened, and then you wake up, and you're awakened. You're an awakened being, and you no longer, you know Allah now. Nothing distracts you from Him. Nothing that anyone says or does. No, you don't need to be in a room that's empty to meditate and pray. You could be in the midst of chaos and you have presence, like the center of a tornado. The outside is super fast, but the center is still because the, you get it. It's all God's work.
What's Allah getting at? Why did my wife do this to me today? Oh, because I didn't pray with Jama'ah. So she's giving me a bit of a harder time than she usually does. Why are my kids acting up? Oh, because today, you know, I didn't do my tajweed like I usually do. What? Everything is connected. Everything. So now it's just like a beautiful way, bro, of looking at the world that just, it's a true awakening. It's like you were dead. Said the example, the analogy of one that remembers Allah and the one that doesn't is like the one that's alive and the one that's dead. Because through the remembrance of Allah, you now see, you get it. You get what Allah is getting at. There's no. It's not like I pray and I fast and I do Hajj, and then when I'm done, now I turn to my dunya. That, what do you think that's separate from God? That's why I tell people, you cannot separate deen and dunya. Deen is a way of life. It's integrated into every aspect of your life.
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Let me ask you this then. When someone asks you, "How do you balance between deen and dunya?" Give me a quick response to something like that. How do you balance between? You know why you tell him this? In order to balance anything, there has to be two. They have to be separate, right? Because what's a balance? It's a scale, right? Imagine a scale. So I need to put something on one side and something on the other. So, in order for me to balance my deen and dunya, I have to admit that they're separate. But is integrated into is a function of why Allah put in everything. It's not just there's something called your. We are scholars say the world is the world of rights and is the world of the world of reward. So there's the rights of God upon you, okay? Pray, fast, do Hajj, pay your Zakat, fast the month of Ramadan. All those rights. Mu'adh asked the Prophet sallallahu alaihi wa sallam, asked Mu'adh to teach him. He says, "Yeah, do you know what the right of Allah is upon you?" Like Allah is, He says, "To worship Him and not associate anything with Him." Okay. So what's your, what's, okay, I'll ask you this. What's the right of your nafs, your soul, on you? It's in the Quran. Um, to, to purify it. Beautiful. So the idea is to purify it. Allah clearly says in the Quran, "Save your nafs and your family from." You have to save it from Jahannam. It has a right upon you. And so what's the right of your wife? Why, why is Allah calling it en-nas in this scenario since you said that the nafs is the manifestation of the soul and body? Because in order for this dunya, it's enough as long as the body, mind is intact, it's enough.
Okay, I, I want to kind of, you said a lot there. I know. I really want to break it up a little bit. Break it down more. Please. One of the things you said was, was everything that we are perceiving, it doesn't actually exist, and our observation of it is what makes it come into reality in some shape or form. I understand this concept when it comes to God. Many scholars say that if Allah was not observing us in every second of every moment, then we would not exist in every second of every moment. So, I understand that that that we only behave because Allah is observing us and because Allah is constantly creating us over, so quick, sustaining us in creation. But what you saying that we, everything that exists doesn't actually exist, can kind of confuse some people. Do you mean literally it doesn't exist? I mean, this, it has no independent existence. It subsists.
So, just think of a light bulb. Okay. So right now, I'm going to, you know, just for the sake of, you heard that word subsist. So right now, there's a light shining on me, right? Mhm. Stop shining. I turned it off. As long as there's electricity running through the wires, current, there's going to be light. The minute that current stops, light's gone. So Allah subhana wa ta'ala is the light of the heavens and the earth. As long as Allah subhana wa ta'ala is sustaining it all, He's the meaning, everything stands erect is through Him. The minute Allah decides to remove His command from it, it vanishes. It's gone. It's no longer interesting. So it subsists, just like the light bulb only lights when there's, it's being sustained by the current through the wires. Once the current, if you think of the current as that spirit, as the command of Allah, once the command of Allah is gone, it's no longer.
Think of it this way. Do you see me right now? Can you hear me? Angel of death just came and took your. Can that body, the eyes are still there when the Ruh left. But can you see me? No. No. Can you hear me? I like how I'm the one that died in this scenario. I'm sorry, bro. I'm not ready to go yet. So I had to, I had to sacrifice you, you know. Double down. Yeah. So, so why is it that you can't see me? Because the Ruh left. What's the Ruh? The soul. What does Allah call it? It's the command of Allah. Ah. So now, let's by deduction and logic, if you see me when the command is inside of you, and when the command of Allah leaves you, you no longer see. So you actually see through the command of Allah, and you hear by the command of Allah, and you speak by the command of Allah. If the Ruh is gone, bro, there's just, just a physical form. There's, right? The body's there. But wow.
Hold up. Hold up. I, I just. So when someone says that, "Oh, you're everything you're doing is by the command of Allah," usually the way you take that in is that, "Oh, Allah's so overpowering over you that you're only able to do it because of Him." But no, it's deeper than that. You're literally doing it by the command of Allah. Yes. It's not the eye that sees. It's the Ruh. The eye doesn't see. The eye is just a faculty, you know. It's the Ruh that's looking.
How do we, in that sense, like, how does that impact our day-to-day lives? Like, when I wake up tomorrow morning? Great question. What does the understanding this have? I'll tell you to do with anything. What is the body made of? The four elements: earth, fire, carbon, nitrogen, water. The elements. Oh, you're going Greek. Okay. Yeah. So, if it's made from, down the carbon route. Yeah. But it. So, if it's made from the elements, from earth, let's just simplify it. The body is made from earth. So, what's the nutrition of the body? Where does food come from? The earth. Or where does it come from? Yeah. The earth. Yeah. And so the nutrition of the body, because the body is made from the earth, the nutrition of it comes from the earth. What's the Ruh made of? The command of Allah. So what's the nutrition of the command of Allah? So the more you align yourself with God's commands, the more the Ruh shines. And the more the Ruh shines, the more motivated you are to stay away from the haram and do the good. Tawa. That's the practical element. You wanted to know how to increase your iman. You need the Ruh to shine brighter. How do you make the Ruh, that light of consciousness in you, shine brighter? Feed it. Give it what it needs. What's the, what is soul food? Literally, what is soul food? What is the spirit's food? The commands of Allah, recitation of the Quran, avoiding the haram, remembrance of Allah, giving dawah, reflecting upon the creation of Allah. So the more you do that, when you understand, wait, I'm actually, and the Ruh is the command of Allah. And the more I remain on the commands of Allah, the stronger the Ruh becomes, and then the Ruh drags, so to speak, this all metaphorical, the nafs towards the obedience of Allah. But when the Ruh becomes weakened, because the Prophet sallallahu alaihi wa sallam said, "Every time you sin, a black spot appears on the heart." What's the significance of the black spot? Okay, what if I do a lot of sins? What happens to the heart? It gets packed with black spots. What happens with a heart that's black? It cannot, what? Um, it cannot take in the light. There you go. It doesn't reflect light.
You know what you're saying is very interesting, per usual. Um, Imam Ali, I like the way you said that. Okay. Imam Ali said that most human beings, if not all human beings, are asleep. And when you die is when we wake up. There you go. And he said, "So die before you die." Yes. Um, Abu Bakr al-Baqillani, he spoke about how the world was made up of atoms. And at the time, his students didn't really understand how he, what atoms were. And so he took, he was a scholar from Marwa, and he took the sand under his feet and he blew on it. And when the sand scattered in the air, he said, "If Allah were to have revealed the veil, this is what you would see." Almost speaking of the molecular realm. So there does seem to be scientific evidence that we are not seeing reality for what it is. Even if you look at the Netflix documentary, I believe it's "Life in Color" or "An Animal's Perspective," something like that, where you go in and you look at how a crab views life. And I thought if I was going to see how a crab viewed life, I would see, you know, more colors. But actually, black and white. Many animals only see in black and white. There's actually a very good argument that even the colors that we're perceiving may not actually be what's on the object. Trees might not necessarily be green. Animals don't see it as such. Um, you know, you know, I, I just have a lot of reflection about what you're saying, so I'm just throwing random stuff at you here and seeing which thought you pick up.
No, no, it makes sense what you're saying. Actually makes sense because remember what we said: we see a filtered version of reality. So my faculties of perception are slightly different than the lizard's, slightly different than the toad's, slightly different than the dog's, right? A dog, Allah will give a stronger sense of maybe smelling, and you know, the, a different spectrum of light in terms of, you know, what they view with their eyes. You know, the, the filters, the lenses are kind of different, just like there's so many different lenses for a camera, and depending on the lens that you put in the, I mean, you know this, you know, you would get a wide-angle lens, and there's certain lenses that will make you look, you know, wider, bigger, skinnier, you know, so everything is filtered through that. So it makes sense that, you know, we don't. I would argue that nobody really knows. Um, I would tell you that the reality of it all is, is it whether it's a toad or whether it's color or whatever it is, it's all just perceiving. And in reality, all there is is Allah subhana wa ta'ala, His actions, and His attributes. You know, that's, that's His attributes appear in all these different forms that He creates. But you can't trust the senses, bro. Remember the story of Musa, of Musa. He taught him, you can't trust your senses.
You know what's interesting about what you're saying is that when Allah calls out to humanity and says, "What has deluded you from your generous Lord?" The scholars comment and say He put the answer to the question in the question. It's His generosity that had deluded you. It's His constant giving you. That's beautiful, man. That's beautiful.
You, you speak about the mind and how it can't access the now, and how the past and the future don't exist, and the past doesn't even exist. Can you explain that? What do you mean by the past doesn't exist? Well, nobody's ever had. The past is a construct of the mind. Have you ever had an experience in the past? Yeah, I've had experiences in the past all the time. That's actually what I believe. No, you never. You've never had an. Actually, I'd argue you've never. The experience you're thinking you had in the past happened in the now. The experience I'm thinking I have. Think of, think of something you did in, like, what breakfast this morning. Did you have breakfast this morning? You had coffee or something? I had, I had eggs and avocado. Okay. It's not. When you had the eggs and avocado, when you actually were having it, it was in the now, right? Uh-huh. You had it in that moment. It was now. When you had it, let's just, I'm going to play along with you as if the past exists. This morning. When you were actually having it, was it the past or the moment you were in? The moment I was in. Okay. Beautiful. Now you're saying, "Okay, um, I had avocado and eggs a few hours ago this morning." Mhm. Is that okay? But where is that thought happening? When is that thought happening? You went into your mind, into your memory bank. You thought of the eggs and avocado. That thought happened now, right? Yeah. Okay. So you, when you had that avocado and eggs, it was now. And now you had a thought about it. The thought is actually happening now. When have you ever had an experience that was not now? Oh, I see what you're saying. You have never had an experience not now. But how do you know there's a past if you've never had an exper. Let me, let me make it easier. You've never had an experience outside of the now. I've never had an experience outside the now. All 8 billion people in this world never had any experience outside of the now. Nor can anybody ever have an experience that is not now. But when you have an experience now, and then now you're thinking about, you know, a few hours later, is just a construct of the mind. Your mind thinks now, "Oh, breakfast this morning." Okay. Can you actually go to breakfast this morning? Like, actually travel in time and go back to breakfast this morning? You can't. And can you go to what you're planning to do tomorrow? Can you travel into the future? So if you've never had an experience outside of the now, when have you ever had an experience that was in the past? You've never. So how do you know the past exists? And the future is also a construct of your mind, your imagination. But when it unfolds, does it unfold in the future or does it unfold in the now? You say, I tell you, in 5 seconds, I'm going to pick up this remote. One, two, three, four, five. Now, when I picked it up, is this now or in the future? Okay. Ten seconds from now, I'm going to pick up the remote. Now, that ten seconds from now is a construct of the mind. I'm imagining. I'm thinking, okay, in ten seconds. But what's counting is the mind. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten. Okay, but when I did it, it's in the now. You've never had an experience outside of the now. You can have a thought about yesterday, but even the thought about yesterday unfolds now.
I, you know what's. You know what's really trippy? The now where you had your breakfast this morning is the same now we're having this conversation because the now is, it's the now is not within time. The now is timeless. The now is the. It's trippy that you know why you're having a difficult time. It's not just you. Most people trip with this because the mind can't understand the now. The mind, in its nature, is trapped in time. You're always time traveling. Every time you're lost in thought, you're time traveling. The mind is like, you know, if I tell you, let's plan tomorrow, the mind likes that. Let's reminisce about the past. The mind might like that. Try to grab the moment with the mind. Try to access the now with the mind. It can't because the Ruh is the now. By the way, the spirit is the now.
Are you saying that it's impossible to live in the moment? Uh, yes, it's impossible to live in the moment because you are the moment. Is it possible for you to right now look for your eyes right now without imagining? There's no mirror and there's no screen. Clearly, you're looking at a screen now or camera, so you could see your eyes. But imagine I told you, like we were just having a face to face and I'm like, "Look for your eyes." You'd be like, "Come on, bro, I can't." Why can't you find your eyes? Trying to live in the now is like trying to look for your eyes. Or a better maybe example, because it's not involving, there's screens around you. Get up and take a step towards yourself right now. Towards myself? Yeah. I can't do that. You can't do that. Can you live in the now? No, you are the now. How are you going to live in it if you are it? I thought everything that we were talking about was to get us to the goal of living in the now, living in the moment. That's new age teachings. That's nonsense. You can't live in the now. You are the now.
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So I thought, so I thought God consciousness, being conscious of God in every moment as much as you can in your life, allows you to live in that moment and move in a different way than the rest of humanity. That's what I thought everything that we've been talking about is supposed to peak to is the consciousness, the tawa of Allah. "Verily, the ultimate victory is to those conscious of God." Are you saying it's otherwise? It, I'm just, it's the way I'm formulating it that's slightly different. I'm not saying that the now is not a good thing that we shouldn't achieve or understand. But I'm just, there's, it's a bit more nuanced. I'm saying that you already are the now. It's your mind that takes you away and distracts you from that fact. Dhikr is the process of slowing down your thoughts and toning down perception so that you return to your true self because you're just, in a sense, veiled from that fact. It's a recognition. You know, people say, "Be in the now, live in the now." Well, who is it that's going to live in the now? If you are the now, because the Ruh is the now. Consciousness is now. It's ever-present. So all I'm saying is the Ruh is already there. You know, like Manai, what did he say? He says, "What you are looking for is where you are looking from." The, the very act of any effort, let me put it this way. Any effort that you do to get to live in the now or be in the now, like you put it, is only going to take you further away from it. It's not something you do. It's something you realize. It's a realization. It's a recognition. It's an awareness. It's no.
So you're saying that the now is inaccessible if you're trying to use your nafs, your mind? But when you are connected with God, and that's only through the Ruh, that's when the now is actualized because you're entering into a different realm, the spiritual realm. You're coming out of the delusion that you're the body-mind and you're resting.
How do you, how do you then make sense of drug use? Nick, you know, that's a nice jump there. I like that. Okay, let's go there. You know, a lot of Muslims, um, smoke weed, um, smoke hookah or vape or or cigarettes. You know, nicotine increases anxiety, weed, whatever. And obviously we know about mushrooms and acid and different psychedelics. How do we then understand how psychedelics affect you? And how do we then understand why something like weed is so potent and desirable, and nicotine? It's a good question. Uh, psychedelics are a bit tricky because I think they, um, alter the mind and so, um, you possibly even opening you up to jinn. Um, so it's a bit tricky. But think of a, like, have you ever, I don't know, have you ever smoked a cigarette back in the days or have you ever tried hookah or anything? Well, there's the initial, you know, when when you're seeking, usually, let's say you have some type of addiction that you're looking forward to something like, right? Let's say you want to smoke weed, and but the weed is not around. You want to go score it or go to a dispensary nowadays. It's like everywhere and buy some. It's much easier than it used to be. And you're like, "Okay, man." You're up in your head, in your mind. You're like, "I can't wait till I smoke because when I smoke, I feel good and I kind of like relax." And there's this anxiety in your head because of a past experience that you felt that you want to feel again. And so you go to the store, the dispensary, and you buy it. You know, say you buy a joint or something, and you light it up, and you take that first, and that initial moment when you first take it in, there is a sense of kind of, there is a dipping into the now. Let me tell you how. And what a lot of people mistake the good feeling they have for the weed, but actually, a while later, the weed doesn't make you feel as good, right? You, you start to, you know, you feel, you know, because I grew up in California, so I've had my experience. I've had my share of trying it as a teenager and whatnot. And usually you get the munchies, and then the aftermath is horrible. You wake up with a hangover and like, you know, you're tired, and then you lose motivation. So the symptoms aren't that great. But the moment, and usually the other issue is, you know, you smoke some if you smoke daily because you always want that feeling back that you felt. Your tolerance goes up, and so you need more, and then the effect doesn't last as long as it does, and you just get caught up in this cycle. But I'm more interested in that first moment where you first had that, you know, initial drag, even as a cigarette, right? Because a cigarette, nicotine has a calming effect. It has benefits too. Like Allah even mentioned in the Quran that about, you know, wine, that it has some benefits, has harm, but the harm is more than the benefit, and it's haram. So what's the benefit of it? And some people, they avoid smoking. They'll take like, you know, like the nicotine gums and stuff because they don't want the bad effects of the, whatever the smokes. And nowadays they have all these devices like the, um, I see it around many of our friends, like the, the vapes, and that has a name, the I, something I, um, ICOS, I think it's called, like it's a device where you put a cigarette in it, but then it doesn't, um, there's no combustion, so it's less harmful, whatever, vaporizes a cigarette. Yeah, exactly. Whatever you're into, man. I'm interested to tell you about that initial hit, that one-hit wonder. You're like, you take that, you, you're anxious, right? Let's say you have your pack of smokes, right? And you ran out, and then you got busy in like two, three, you're a heavy smoker, and you spent a few hours because you were busy at work and you didn't have a cigarette. Then you're like, you start to think about it, and you start to crave it. You're like, "I got to, I got to go buy the smokes. I got to go buy the smokes." You're anxious. You go, you finally grab a new pack of smokes and you take out a cigarette and you light it. That moment where you take that initial drag. Yes. It has a physical effect on you because it, nicotine will, you know, calm you down. You have that kind of agitation. You smoke, and usually people, when they're angry, right, or they're yelling, whatever, they take a cigarette so they can calm down. But there's something else there. There's that moment where anxiety is released, and it comes to an end because the mind is incessant. It's like it's nagging. Go buy smokes. Go buy. I want to feel. I want to feel that relief. I want to feel that relief. When you finally take that drag in, and it does what it does, there's a, you're no longer in your head about, initially, you're in your head about, "I need to go buy smokes." So you're like, mind traveling. But when you finally got the pack of smokes, you don't have to think that anymore. So the resistance in the mind, the, those rushing thoughts, they slow down, and they're not incessant anymore. They're not bugging you anymore. And you kind of dip into the moment because the cigarette's right there. And then that initial relief, part of that relief is the relief of that nagging mind that's perturbed, and you finally got what you want. So you kind of let go, and you dip into infinity for a moment where you're just kind of like, in that moment, you have it. But once you blow it out, then you're kind of like, "Okay, I want another one." And you're back in your head. Then you have that moment again.
It's kind of like when you're doing an activity that you really enjoy. Does time pass faster or slower? Faster. Faster. When you're really enjoying something, you're like, "Where did time go?" Why is that? Because when you're doing something you're not enjoying, where are you? You're in your head. Why are you in your head? You're like, "Man, I really rather be somewhere else. I can't wait. How much longer do I have at work?" And so you're in your head. And when you're in your head, you're in time, the illusion of time. And so you're like, now you're feeling time more. You're giving it attention. So it's like, ah, it's taking, why is this class taking forever? But if you, you're in a class you're enjoying, or you're listening to someone that you really enjoy, you look, "Where did the time go?" Because your attention was not scattered into like, anxious thoughts about not wanting to be here and whatnot, or "I'd rather be somewhere else." And you're not thinking of anything in the past. Your attention is gathered into the now. It's focused at what you're doing right in the moment. So when that attention gathers into the now, the now is timeless. It's, it's the same thing as falling into deep sleep. When you wake up and you're like, "Where did the time go?" But it's more of a mind game in sleep than it is here. But naturally, if you don't want, whenever I want time to pass quickly, I give dawah. Like, I'm telling you, man, I go on trips, and in a car, like I have a trip coming up to Chicago. I'll be driving eight hours towards Chicago soon, inshallah, to attend the mass conference or something like that. My brother lives there. Like the eight hours will pass by like nothing. If I'm giving my poor wife dawah the entire way, talking to her about just like my thoughts on deen and Allah and this and that, it's like, where the time. But if we're just sitting there, it's like, okay, when's the next gas station and next stop, and it just takes forever because time is a construct of the mind.
Has anything we've spoken about today been helpful in ending such addictions? Oh, yes. Uh, subhan Allah. It's understanding yourself and then understanding that you can have access, unlimited access to that peace and that salam without any of these substances, simply through the practice of. There's a, I'm not talking about of the tongue only. I'm talking about truly the kind of dhikr that, you know, where you practice presence. "I am not my thoughts. I am not my body." When the thought comes, you observe it. You observe it come and go, and you're kind of like anchored in. And that type of dhikr, it has such a sweetness and a peace to it. But I found nothing more powerful of taking care of addictions than, and a specific act of, um, long hours of sujud. And if you really, if you can get someone to do it somehow, the first, after the first couple of nights, they'll be addicted to it. There's a sweetness to long sujud. I'm talking about, try it, man. The next time Allah gives you to get up for Fajr, don't worry about your as much. Like, okay, pray, recite whatever you can. But when you go into sujud, spend ten minutes per sajdah. See how you feel after that prayer. But don't sit there in your sajdah planning your next podcast. Like, when you're in that sajdah, just fill your heart with heartfelt gratitude for Allah and love for Allah, and ask Him for whatever you need. Better to ask Him for qualities like patience and the qualities you need for iman. And this, and you can also ask Him for whatever you want. But take some, after you get all that out of the way, what you want to ask Allah, then just don't just go into silence and dip into infinity and eternity. Like, just be. Just be and fill your heart with love and gratitude. Just spend like five, ten minutes. You're not going to feel the ten minutes if you do that. You might spend an hour in sajdah.
I had a moment one time where I forgot I was in prayer. I had an experience like that. It was like almost like an out-of-body experience where I like, it was so anchored in the. Many, many years ago, I was into, I was reciting the Quran. I was just, it was actually in, but then it also happened to me in sujud. And like, I think maybe an hour passed by. Felt like a moment. But it's, you have to truly let go. You have to slow down thoughts by observing them, by being aware of them. Like
Just very simply, just like you're observing me right now. You just close your eyes and okay, you think of something or the thought appears and you just like, "Oh, there it is." You disentangle yourself from your thoughts. I am not my thoughts. I think this who's the one thinking? I awareness is having these thoughts. I is having these thoughts.
So now, can I ask you something that helps? Oh, go ahead. Go ahead. No, no, that's it. You, how does prayer actualize everything that we've been talking about? Even the verses in that you mentioned earlier about who are the believers, those who believe in the unseen. Yeah. And uphold the prayer. Why does Allah ask us to pray? Where, where does this come into the picture of everything we're talking about in this matrix, almost world?
Yeah, it's, it's, it's a time out, man. It's a timeout from the hustle and bustle of life. To put it very, in a very soft, easy terms, salah is from silah. It's your connection with Allah subhana wa ta'ala. So instead of like, you know, when you, before the salah comes, you hear the adhan, right? And the adhan is for Allahu Akbar, because Allah is reminding you that what you're busy with is what Allah is calling you towards. So drop whatever. So it's like five tests a day to see where Allah is on your list of priorities. And you know, the faster you get to the prayer, there, there's Allah is looking for quality in the prayer, man.
One of the qualities is that you pray on time. And a better one is that you pray in the beginning time. And an even better one, if you're a man, is to pray in the masjid. And an even better one is to pray in the first saf. And, and even better is to be on the right side of the Imam. And even better is to have make a specific wudu for every salah. And even better is to fulfill all the shuroot of salah properly and recitation properly. And then on top of that, to have presence of heart and stillness of your limbs. And is the stillness of the limbs. You're not, some people pray and they're shaky. I watch mo, most people pray these days and they're swinging because they're so used to, they're so like fidgety, you know, because they're constantly like in movement. They're like watching stuff. And I have a screen here watching this episode, and I've got my phone here, and I've got my iPad there, and my Apple Watch. And so their attention is scattered all over the place. So when they come to salah, they're like, they can barely. But that stillness, said if his heart was still, present, his body would be still. And I found that to be very true through experience. And so, you know, having presence of heart in the salah, you know, praying with gratitude, and that the fact to see that the salah is a gift from Allah. All these things, the more of these qualities you have, the closer, closer you are to Allah, the more openings you will have, the more taqwa you will have, hence the more knowledge that Allah will teach you.
So five times a day, it's a five-time opportunity. It's like, where are you on the list? So there are some people that are Eid Muslims. They only come to salah for Eid. Some are only Friday Muslims. Where are you, man? If you don't, if you don't, if you don't have adab with Allah, you understand what I mean by adab? Yeah. Yeah. Manners. Yeah. If you don't have good adab with Allah above the earth, Allah will teach you adab below the earth. So you understand what I mean? Like, I don't mean to scare people, man, but like, have adab with Allah. I mean, the salah is something he commanded, and he knows what's best for you. So, five times a day, it's your chance. It's your time out from that rush of dunya to connect with Allah and ask him. And it's for your own advantage. He doesn't need your prayer.
When you, when you pray for your own advantage, I look at my prayer as a reorientation, a physical and spiritual reorientation. Like literally, we, we reorient ourselves towards the east. At least here in the West, we do. We reorient ourselves towards our origin story, where we came from, whether you want to talk about Adam or Ibrahim or Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, himself. So some scholars say that Adam actually was the one that built the Kaaba. And so the, the world of delusion that we're speaking of, that you live in, five times a day, you get to reorient yourself in the reality of, of, uh, the real relationship, the only relationship that exists, which is between, uh, you and Allah.
You calibrate the compass. Yeah. Exactly. So you know which way you're going. You know which path you're going down. You know, it's one of the worst things that happens is not worst, but one of the most awakening moments is when you just got out of a fight with someone, an argument, a bad moment where you just weren't your best self, and then you have to go pray. It's just such a strange stand in front of Allah after that. You're like, you feel shy. But Allah loves the broken heart, bro. Like some people, man, they're so far from Allah, but when they come because they've been so far from Allah. And this is my, this is my message to you, whoever you are, that feels like, like I don't have a chance. Allah loves you so much, man. The fact that you're even hearing this right now, you know, it's, it's for a reason. There are no chances. And, um, when you come to Allah with that broken heart, Allah says, he says, I am with the heartbroken ones. Why? Because the ego is not at its strongest. When you're heartbroken, there isn't that that I who do you? You don't know who I am. Don't you know who I am, bro? Who are you? So without Allah, you're nothing. So humbling oneself. So, but someone that is worshiping the, uh, some of the wise people, they say, you're better off being with a humble ignoramus than an arrogant scholar. So come to Allah, man, with that broken heart. Allah loves that more than that person that's coming to salah like, like it's their achievement. Salah is a gift that Allah manifested. If he wants, if he didn't, you know, if it wasn't for the will of Allah, you wouldn't be praying. The fact that how many people don't pray? Over 90% of the Muslims don't pray five times salah. That's a statistic. Are you serious? Globally? Wow. Five times within the allotted time. Every, there's someone missing, missing, missing. Over 90% of the Ummah is not praying five times salah. You know, the, the oath between me, Allah, and his servants is salah. Whoever leaves it intentionally, it's like, it's the danger of entering blasphemy. But you know, us, we are taught differently. You know, if you ask a typical, you know, person or scholar, what is the hukm? You understand hukm? What's the law when it comes to, uh, what's God's ruling when it comes to the one who leaves salah intentionally? They ask the scholar and they ask, look at the difference. The scholar is going to just give you the ruling which is needed, you know, what is the ruling? So the scholar, some, there's a difference of opinion. You know, the, the four Imams, they don't do of someone who leaves. They say they just, you know, unless he denies that salah is a, that's a different story. But if they leave it out of laziness, then they still say that that person has iman, you know, but basically has work to do. But there are some within the school that they'll, they'll do the. But, uh, then they ask the, so let's say they come to someone from the school, what's the hukm of leaving salah? Oh, you know, kufr. And then they ask the, what's the hukm of the one that leaves salah? He answers, he says that you take him with you to the masjid. No, like, there's hikmah because the idea is having concern, man. It's not like the point is not to look down on those that aren't praying. You don't know what environment he grew up in. All they heard from these shuyukh that come on with their big long beards and their short jalabiyas and their long miswaks, with all due respect to the Sunnah of the Prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam. But they have this feeling like, I follow the Sunnah and these people don't. Then they come down, you're going to, they look down. Allah says, he doesn't say, Allah doesn't say in the Quran, judge the people. He says, judge between people. When people have disputes, judge between them. But judging people is for Allah. Allah says, Allah will sort them out on the day of judgment. It's true, there's a, but have mercy, man. Allah sent the Prophet as a mercy to the world. Saying something kind to someone that left, the best thing you can do to someone that's not praying is not to tell them to pray, is to feed them and show them kindness and then tell them something like, yeah, Allah, you know, if you were to pray, man, how much you would, you know, just to come from that soft approach rather than this haram and jahanam and Allah is going to burn you and this fear. Fear works with some people. It has its uses. But the, um, so far today, that this is why you don't find me talking a lot about halal and haram because a lot of my audience on Instagram and the growth that I've had recently and the feedback that I have is they come and they're like, it's so refreshing that we're not hearing just halal and haram. It's, it's just a new perspective of looking at deen. Do I not know a lot of the halal and haram? I do. It's not even a new perspective. It's a revival of the original perspective. It's just a new way of presenting it. Sometimes it's not. Absolutely. You're right. You're right. Yeah. The philosoph, like what you, I love that you're bringing back is philosophy and Islam, and that's because it's, it's Kalam philosophy. I won't go down. But it's, it's mainly been almost abandoned by the, you know, day-to-day Muslim thought. It's because of the Salafi school. They're not fond of it. They're not fond of, and, and they're more dominant in, in the online culture today. So that's why you'll find that there's less and less of that. But if you go to some parts of the Middle East and other parts of the world, you'll find, I mean, the, um, and the, um, is, you know, considered the. But it's attacked by the, um, school of thought or the school of thought. Some do of the. I don't get into that. That's none of my, you know, I, they ask me what I am. I might tell them I'm Muslim, cuz it's not my field of expertise. But for me, or using logic, or as long as it doesn't go against the Quran or the Sunnah, you know, for me, I found it to be very useful. So many people have entered Islam because of, by the of Allah and grace of Allah, through my talks. And so if you come to me and tell me, no, don't use this talk, just use the Quran. And so I said, "Okay, I use Quran and Sunnah to, you know, clarify and elucidate a lot of the points." But a lot of people, especially the seculars that are far away from the religion, they're already kind of doubtful about the whole, like, Sunnah aspect of things. So if you come from there, you've blocked their ability to listen. You want to bring them one step at a time, slowly, slowly. Allah loves you. There's the doors always open. Here's some verses from the Quran. And here's a, a, a new style of looking at things. And think, oh, this is kind of cool, I never thought of it this way. Then they come, then they increase their iman, they change their environment, then slowly, slowly, you'll find them going back to the Sunnah of the Prophet. This is hikmah. But to just like slam people with like, you know, just this is a kafir and this is, and the disunity of the Ummah, and everybody looking at the faults of others, I stay away from that because I have work to do. I have to, I have work to do. I have the responsibility. Man, I feel it, and every Muslim should feel it, that how to save every single soul from the fire of Jahannam with intelligence. We have, we have to have soft hearts to do that. The Prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam, the word that fell in the heart of the Quran center is to be gentle, you know, not to have this like aggressive attitude towards the deen. Otherwise, you're just going to push people farther away. Bro, if your path to seeking knowledge in religion is causing you to hate others, then you're going down the wrong path. 100%. Beautifully put. Beautiful. Everyone, you know, everyone's in trouble except those who come to Allah with a pure or sound heart. Well put, man. Well put. And the nafs loves that because the nafs, when you put others down, you're kind of indirectly, you know, putting yourself on a pedestal because if you're wrong, then I'm right. You know, like the Prophet said that whoever leaves mirror like arguing, even though they're right, you know, they get a special house in paradise. And the pro, and Allah says that that arguing hardens the heart. And so it's not about arguing with others all the time. The jidal, you know, jidal. But the only time argument was, you know, who used arguing and it was praised by Allah, uh, what exactly did he use it with? He says, what did he use it? Yeah, he used it. The context is this is to all the, you know, people that are, and let me take a moment to talk about this because I think it's important. You know, all the gay people out there or that feel that they are, whatever it may be. Yeah. No. Yeah. Yeah. Because there are gay Muslims, bro. You can't, you know, I mean, they, they, they, they'll tell you like, I, I've met a lot of them, you know, and it's a, it's, it's something that we have was arguing with Allah subhana wa ta'ala. People think that just the punishment just came down on them and that was it. Yes, I am not arguing that that, that that act is haram. I, I have no, you know, I'm not trying to. But what you have to understand is how much effort did Islam make? And then was like, ya Allah, just a bit more time. And look at the mercy of the prophets. We're just like, you're going to jahanam. They, they don't want to come to Islam because whenever Islam talks about them, it gives them a ticket straight to jahanam. So how are we going to bring them back? My approach, which is to tell them, listen, man, your gayness, this is, keep it in closed doors, honestly. Listen, let me hear me out to the end. It's in closed doors between you and Allah. You deal with it with your God. I'm not here to judge you. Judgment is for Allah. For us, following that act is definitely haram, just like the person that may be inclined towards drinking alcohol or inclined towards drugs, and they know it's haram, and then they hold that inclination back. We distinguish between the sin and the sinner. It is said like, we don't hate the sin. We don't hate the sinner. We hate the sin. We have rahma for the sinner. We want him to change his ways before it's too late. So for me, I even have empathy for them, man. I have, I'm thinking about them as well, how they can be saved. But the, my approach to them is to say, listen, hold it. Keep it behind closed doors. Say, this is how I feel. Well, for us, we can't act upon that. But my dawa to all those hardcore shuyukh out there, cuz I'm a milkshake, I'm not a shaykh, right? All the hardcore shuyukh out there that are just like, haram, and you're going to jahannam, and, and this is happening, and that's, and yeah, and you close the doors on them, and they never come and make tawbah, and then what? But if you come to them with love, and they still insist in their ways, and they act in their ways, no, we don't mix with them. We have our stance. Listen, we don't sell out with our deen. What's, but understand what I'm saying. I'm saying I'm hoping that there could be a chance because of this satanic. There's like a, it's a problem, man, in our time and age. But I'm saying come with it through mercy. And at the end of the day, you're in North America. Like they have the freedom to do whatever they want. But for us as Muslims, we have limitations. There are boundaries. Things we can do, things we can't do. We have to remain within those boundaries. Sure, you're free to practice whatever you want. I'm not judging you. Allah will judge you. But I'm saying we have certain things that are clear in the Quran. But I'm telling the scholars that have at least in your approach, because if anyone dies while Allah is displeased with them for whatever reason, you know that's between them and God, then they've lost forever and ever, man. That's no joke. Dawah is not a joke, man. We're working to save people from the hellfire. That's a serious business. And save ourselves too, right?
I have a, a, a friend or a colleague back in college who converted to Islam, and they, they were gay, and they converted to Islam after our conversations. And once I asked him, I was like, you know, I said straight up to your face that I think homosexual acts are haram and a sin. And you don't react in a negative way. If anything, I've heard you call so many other people homophobes, yet you've never called me a homophobe. Why is that? And she said, because I never felt like you hated or disliked me. Subhan Allah. Yeah. And I was like, interested. She said, that's never a feeling that I've ever gotten from you. And it's exactly that distinction. One of the, the fallacies that we fall into in the West is their argument that being gay is an identity. When Allah clearly says in the Quran that homosexuality is an act. And just like you have friends who drink, just like you have friends who smoke, that doesn't mean that's who they are. And that's one thing when she was beautiful when they were trying to figure out, I already said the gender, but when they were trying to figure out what to do with the gay flags they had up and all this, they're like, "But after they became Muslim, they told me like, 'Okay, but what am I supposed to do? I'm still gay.'" I was like, "Wait, wait. Are you having gay sex right now?" They were like, "No." I was like, "Well, well, Allah does not see you as gay. Allah sees you. You doing gay things is a different thing than you being gay. You're not gay." That's beautiful, man. Yeah. And that threw them all. I literally like they went into a different world. I wasn't there anymore after that moment. They were just like, "I'm not gay." Like, "No, you're not gay." Even the Greeks. Even the Greeks didn't see themselves as they were having gay sex all the time. They never saw themselves as gay. Yeah. Because the act is different than the being. Subhan Allah.
Yeah, we, we, I, I 100% agree with you. The question is though that, you know, there's a lot of suffering. You said that Allah loves you. And one of the issues with which is relying upon Allah is this idea that Allah loves you. And one, once someone told me like, you know, Allah wants you to get this job, or Allah wants you to get this wife or husband, or Allah wants you to succeed in this more than you do. That's how much Allah loves you. Love loves you more than you love yourself. One of my qualms with that statement is, well, if it was up to me, I would have this job right now. If it was up to me, I would have this spouse right now, or this money right now. So, if Allah wants this job for me as much as I want it, then I would literally be getting, getting an email right now. So, how does someone, you know, live with this dichotomy or understand? Even the Prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam, he says, if I knew the, then, you know, he was basically saying, if, if I knew the, no bad would have harmed me, right? Like I would avoid the bad things because I knew what was coming. And so when it comes to something like a job, man, it's like to equate God's love on whether he, for Allah, for Allah, like money is just a test. And Allah knows what's best for you better than you. So because he loves you, he probably won't give you the job even if you want it, if he sees bad in it for you, if he sees that it's going to distract you from him. Because your dua, you know, Allah doesn't just love you just for this. You have to earn his love. You've got to earn it. Who does Allah love? Read the Quran. You want God's love? Become a. Allah says, He loves the God-conscious. He loves the patient ones. The ones with ihsan. The ones oft repenting. The ones that purify themselves. It's always qualities. So if you want Allah, you can't just be like, you know, you're partying on weekends, you're far from Allah. You're like, "Yeah, Allah loves me." I mean, you know, he loves for you and he wants what's best for you, and he'll send you signs upon signs and people and whatnot. But if you keep insisting in your ways, you know, you reap what you sow, man. So, this concept that Allah just loves me, and then your understanding of what's good for you is one thing, but Allah has a holistic outlook. Like he knows what's best for you. If anything, all the Prophet wasallam said, "Whoever leaves something for the sake of Allah, Allah gives him something better." And everybody when they hear this, they say, "Oh, I left a job for the sake of Allah that had haram in it, and Allah, I'm waiting for a better job because Allah said if I leave something." Well, why don't you wait for ihsan? Cuz that's better. And why do you assume what's better is always in financial terms? Because your heart is filled with financial things. Like you're attached to money. You're thinking about it 24/7. You dream about it. You sleep thinking about it. You wake up thinking about it. So it's in your heart. But you know, as far as Allah is concerned, money is like, money simply makes you more of what you are. If you're a good person, money will make you an even better person, God willing. If you're a bad person, it'll just make you more of that. You just have to work on you. You want God's love, man. You know, just, uh, align yourself with the way of his, with his most beloved. Closer you are to the Sunnah of the Prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam, the closer you are to Allah's love. And Allah knows best, man.
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