Transcription
Then I thought that gave a kind of relief, however strange that may sound, that I thought, if I can't live without my mother, then I'll just go to her. Those are really very intense thoughts. Yes, and then I got pregnant. [Music] Yes, welcome to a new episode of Spot On. Ran and her mother are incredibly close. When her mother, after a severe illness, chooses euthanasia, R no longer sees the meaning of life itself. Shortly thereafter, she becomes pregnant, but a baby cannot fill the void her mother leaves behind. She talks today at Spot On about grieving and the misunderstanding from her environment. Welcome, it's super nice that you want to be our guest today. You lost your mother last year, and that really turned your life upside down. What kind of woman was your mother? Yes, my mother was truly the strongest woman I know. I would actually say the strongest woman in the whole world. And she was very funny, but also very direct. If something wasn't right, you noticed it. Hm hm, you talk about her and I immediately see, you're beaming. Yes, we had a very real bond. So, how did that come about? My mother could actually never have children, and then at her 42nd, they suddenly had me. And I think that contributed to us having such a strong bond. And my parents also divorced quite early. I think I was four or five, so we've actually always been just the two of us. My father was involved, of course, just not as much as my mother. And what are things you always did together? Big things, like we always went on vacation together, and I really enjoyed that, and to concerts. Yes, so actually the small things, like watching TV together on the couch, and eating sushi. Those kinds of things. Yes, and things you would also really do with a friend. Yes, I actually did that with my mother. Yes, yes, or what I would do with my boyfriend, for example, very often on vacation. I remember at one point someone said, "But you go on vacation with your mother so often, shouldn't you also go with your boyfriend?" And I did that too, but I went with my mother more often. Your mother was sick. Yes, what, what did your mother have? It turned out that my mother had lung cancer that had spread to her brain, and she had three brain tumors in the end that nothing could be done about. So that was very intense. And I also remember being immediately very scared, thinking, "Oh, I can't live without my mother." Between the diagnosis your mother received and her passing, she had six months. Yes, in those six months, I understood that you took care of her. Yes, why did you want to do that yourself? I was always with my mother 24/7, so this wasn't even a question of whether I would do it, it was just very natural. While, yes, sometimes it was of course also very difficult because I don't come from a care background at all. So I also lifted her incorrectly sometimes, and that I hurt myself, or the first time I showered her. Yes, that was super difficult because she was so vulnerable then, but on the other hand, also very beautiful that I thought, "Fortunately, I did this and not someone else." What did you find the hardest about that period of caring for your mother? That she herself realized that she couldn't do things anymore. That's what I found the hardest. Also, at one point, she couldn't walk anymore. And I remember I had seen a ring that I really liked, and then she apparently got it herself while walking, and I'm wearing it here. And that was truly the most special thing ever, because that was the last time she could walk on her own. But I remember how she came back, she was completely exhausted, and that was just not mom. I see that it affects you. Yes, yes. No one wants to see that, and no one wants to see her strength fade like that, but certainly not the person you love most in the whole world. Yes, yes, eventually your mother chose to undergo euthanasia. Yes, how was it for you to hear that she had made that choice? Yes, it was very intense, also because it came quite unexpectedly. Of course, at one point my mother could do less and less, but when you're in the middle of that process, you don't realize it. And I remember the doctor came and suddenly said, "Will you please leave the room for a moment?" So I thought, "Why?" But okay, I did it. And then I came back, and then he said, then mom said, he was gone. And then she said, "I don't want it anymore." And then I was first very angry at the GP because I thought, "If I'm not there, you're putting that in her head." But that's not the case, of course, because apparently she had been thinking about it for a long time, but she couldn't express it to me, and that's why he said, "You leave for a moment," and she could talk to him about it. What feeling went through you? Yes, as if the world was falling out from under your feet, as if it was all sinking away. Did you try to talk your mother out of it? Yes, I do regret that a little now because it's actually very selfish, of course. But at that moment, I thought, "Mom, we can still try this, we can still try treatments abroad." And I was really struggling with that, that I wanted to try everything on earth to make her better. But at one point I stopped talking about it because I thought, "She has made that choice, and it's probably the hardest choice on earth." What did those last two weeks look like? I don't think I let go of it, and yes, I had to cry a lot. Sometimes she would look at me and say, "Why are you crying?" And I really thought, "Mom, but how, how will I live without you? How will we live without each other?" The last day your mother was alive, what did that day look like? Yes, I actually didn't want to let go of it, but and I just thought, "Well, I thought, I just won't open the door." Because the GP, at one point, you know when he's coming. And then I also asked mom, "Mom, today is the day." And yes, but then I really noticed that she was so done with it, that she was almost looking forward to it: "It's over, it's finished." That I thought, "Okay, I have to find peace in that too." And I really wanted to take away her worry about it, her fear, but it really seemed like she didn't have it. She was actually watching the news calmly. And yes, I can hardly explain it, but it really seemed like she was completely okay with it happening. I can imagine that you were also quite anxious during that time. Yes, yes, losing a part of yourself, actually. Yes, that's what it is, literally what happened. Well, I always say that my mother was my whole life, and that was also when you know, "Soon she won't be here anymore." Yes, I really thought, and yes, then I won't be here anymore either. Yes, I really did that many times. Also when I knew she was sick, that was really the only thing that got me to sleep, thinking, "Okay, if it's really not going to work anymore, then without mom, then I don't want it either." Then I thought that gave a kind of relief, however strange that may sound, that I thought, "If I can't live without my mother, then I'll just go to her." Those are really very intense thoughts. Yes, and then I got pregnant. Yes. And so I would never do something like that now, but it's very strange that that helped me through that time. Even when she was sick, I thought, "Okay, whatever happens, we can always stay together, even if it's in that way." On the other hand, it's very double-edged because I also want, precisely because I no longer have both my parents, to make them proud. If I could see my mother again, I would have done what she said I would do. Yes, because you got the most out of life. It's very double-edged. One day I really can't get out of bed, or well, I do, but then you think, "What's the point of it all?" And the other day you think, "Oh, I have to get the most out of life because they can't do that anymore." Could you talk to someone about that? I talked about it a lot with my boyfriend, and fortunately, I could do that 10 times a day if I said, "I miss mom." But I'm also someone who tries to process a lot myself. So that also happened when mom was still sick. I also went to a psychologist because I knew, well, what I just said, that I don't want to live without my mother. And there I, well, I talked about it a bit, but that was it. Shortly thereafter, you became pregnant. Yes, was this a surprise? Yes, it was really a surprise, however silly that may sound. Of course, they had once said to mom that having children would be very difficult. But they had actually said the same to me, so I had also assumed that. But then it was immediately. And that was a bit of a, yes, I was very happy, but also thought, "Oh dear, but I can't handle this at all now," because suddenly life and death are very close together. And I also thought, "How will I, yes, actually be my best self for my baby, because I couldn't even be my best self for myself? I couldn't even be a little bit myself for myself." Yes, that I sometimes also thought, "Yes, what have I done now?" It sounds very harsh, and of course, I am very happy and grateful now, but I just wasn't completely ready for it yet. Yes, and I also found it difficult with the people around me, that yes, I was still so in my grief, but people then said, "Yes, but don't be sad, because you're getting a baby now." And I thought, "Yes, but it will never replace my mother, never." Could you say that to people, that that remark is actually not very pleasant? Yes, yes, maybe I didn't always say it very nicely, but I did say it, yes, because it's quite painful for me. For example, two months after my mother passed away, I received a message: "Are you used to being without your mother yet?" And the person probably meant well, but of course, I'm not used to it without her. I will never get used to it without my mother, and certainly not two months later. What do you think people could say in such a situation? I think it's very good if people don't assume, but actually ask, "How are you doing?" instead of always wanting to say clichés like, "Oh, but luckily they are no longer alive," or "Oh, but luckily this." Yes, no, there is no "luckily." I lost my mother, and I think people could do that better. So just honestly ask, "Are you doing okay?" And then it's up to the person who has lost someone to say, "Oh, today is okay," or maybe you'll have a bad day sometimes. Have you ever felt lonely? Yes, very often, still, still. And also just feeling like you don't belong anywhere. "Is this my life? This is not my life. This doesn't feel like my life, as if I'm living someone else's life." That's how it often feels. All stability and yes, all support is just gone, because that was her. Do you think that will ever return in another way? I hope so, I'm doing my best for it, but that's difficult, and I also think it's a long road because there was so much love between my mother and me that I also need to give it time now, that things are different, and that it's not, that it's logical that I won't suddenly think tomorrow, "Oh, this is indeed my life, and it's going well and it feels like home." But that I have to take it bit by bit. What have you actively done to focus more on your mental health now, especially with the baby coming? Yes, it took a very long time, honestly. I think only since a month ago I've been trying a bit to be there for myself, so to speak, because I really didn't do that in the other months. I could, for example, not even get dressed, because that was already too much. Then I would be back in my tracksuit. My house was also a mess. It was chaos. I tried to keep up with it, but it just didn't work. And now I'm trying to do that with small steps. And that works. So sometimes I write a letter to mom, what I actually wanted to tell her, I just write it down. And also beautiful memories that we have, because I am very afraid that the older I get, the more things you will experience, and then I think, "Oh, then our life will fade more and more into the background, and soon I won't remember it anymore." So I also try to write down our beautiful memories. Do you feel that you can still enjoy things a bit, despite the situation of your pregnancy? Yes, it's getting more and more. In the beginning, it was very difficult, and also because I was really burying myself in work, so I was only busy with that, only busy. And now I think, "Yes, I'm just going to make the best of it," and then I also find it very nice. And when he kicks again, I think, "Oh, yes, yes, yes." And then I sometimes also think, "Yes, he can't do anything about this either, so I have to give him a fair chance." And I'm also looking forward to it, yes, even though it's very double-edged. Yes, I understand that very well. Are there things your mother taught you that you would like to pass on to your son? That is really staying true to yourself, because that is something my mother always found very important, that I stayed true to myself. Yes, and just that love. My mother had such unconditional love for me. I find it beautiful and also very difficult that I suddenly have my own family now, because my parents, and especially my mother, and my dog too, because he means a lot to me, that was always my family. And it's also very scary that I'm now suddenly going to have a different family. And with that, I'm also trying to think, "Okay, but I don't have to let go of my old family completely, even if they are no longer here." That was just my foundation, my family, but that doesn't mean I can't have a beautiful family of my own. And do you think it would have been different if you had become pregnant, for example, next year or in 2 years? I think so, that I would have had a little more time. On the other hand, I also think that things have to be this way. At least with mom's illness, I still don't understand why it had to be that way. But now, perhaps with the baby, I think, "Okay, maybe it had to be this way, because now I'm still here." And that's really that, yes, that you want to take care of such a little one and do your best, and because of that, I get out of bed and want to take better care of myself, because I'm not just taking care of myself, but also for him. Yes, and that has also given me some strength in the past few months, helped me through it, because if I don't take good care of myself, then I'm not taking good care of him either, and I found that truly terrible. Yes, in a way, also a bit of your salvation. Yes, I think so. Yes, yes, and perhaps, a little less alone. What I find so beautiful is that you are super open about the beautiful things in life, but also the less beautiful parts of it. I think I'm so honest about it, which I also find very scary, but because when people are pregnant, you only hear about the pink cloud they are on. And yes, I had that totally not. I really thought, "Where is my cloud then?" And secretly I also hoped a little that if I had that pink cloud, it would fix everything, but that's not the case, of course. Yes, maybe that can also be said, because of course, I am very grateful, but it doesn't mean that I am always very happy or that it is very easy. I also felt very guilty in the beginning, thinking, "Oh, but I'm not allowed to think like this," which actually makes you work against yourself even more. But if you just think, "Okay, this thought is there, and tomorrow there will be another thought," then yes, it feels much less heavy, and then you feel less guilty because you can't help it. Well, you indicated that you didn't know who you would be without your mother. Do you know now who you are? Still not. So sometimes I think, "Wow, this is the hardest lesson I've had to learn in my life," because I always relied so much on my mother, and built so much on my mother, and because of that, I didn't necessarily always trust what I knew myself or who I was. So I'm trying that now, I have to, actually, but I still don't know. No, it feels very, very unstable and very strange, but yes, I am, I am the one I have now, so I have to learn that, but it's going very slowly. How do you see the future? Sometimes I really think, "Oh, I'm going to conquer the world with my dog, boyfriend, and child." And other times I think, "Oh, I don't even know how I'll make it through next week." How I see the future is that I will make my parents proud. I really find that a very beautiful, very beautiful thought. And it's also okay that sometimes it's just not okay. Yes, that I have to accept that too. Yes, yes. What would you want to tell or say to people who are in the same situation as you? That however difficult it may be, you really have to try to be there for yourself, because that's often the first thing that goes wrong when you're grieving, that you also stop taking care of yourself. And even if it's just a very small bit every day, that will get you through, because ultimately you are the one who has to be there for yourself. Yes, and that you are also allowed to take your time and that you should especially not feel guilty, also because many people say, "Oh, the first year is the hardest, but the second year too, and the third year too, and even if you have 10 years where everything is the hardest, that's okay." No, there's no time limit to grief. Ran, thank you so much for being here today. I think it's so beautiful how you talk about your mother, and I know, I'm sure you will be just as good a mother to your son as your mother was to you. If I can give him just a little bit of the love she gave me, then I know it will be okay. Well, I think it will really be okay. Thank you. You will do very well. And thank you all very much for watching. If you have a comment or a question, let us know in the comments, and we'll see you next week. Bye.