Transcription
Why are you talking about memecoins? Cuz that's what you do. I invest.
So you can buy any property without seeing it like that and just go like that and you're guaranteed to make money. Is this what you teach in your courses?
Higher barrier to entry usually means the better business model.
So I'm right.
No. It's a ridiculous horrible argument.
Do you think Amazon could go to zero in the next 2 years? Walmart could go to zero. I'm a pretty smart man. I'm a multi-millionaire. I've been hacked. I've had my Bitcoin stripped from me. You can't steal my house.
I'm not about hopefully my coin goes up. You go for the biggest ones out there. The safest one that's got to be I think that it's potentially one big Ponzi scheme.
Why is it a Ponzi scheme? You're definitely trying to piss me off here. It's not I'm not even Do you know what? No.
Just a few weeks ago, there's this guy called Samuel Leeds. Now, you might know him, you might not, but he basically did this YouTube video on why properties are so much better than the stock market trading and investing. And I have to say, I didn't agree with hardly anything that he said in there. So, I decided I think he loves doing debates, right? That's probably all he does. Debate, debate, debate. And so, I thought I'd invite him into the studio to debate what is better, property or trading and investing. Welcome, Samuel Leit.
Thank you. In regards to the initial investment, right, you talk about property, I talk about trading and investing because when you do stocks, when you do cryptos, I say on stocks, you can start with £2,000. That's it. £2,000. In cryptos, you can start with a lot less. You can start with 500 because you can make so much money. So, if I'm obviously the more the better. Now, I don't know much about property. I do have properties, but I have to tell you that what the average has got to be, I don't know, 12,000 25,000 to put a deposit down. So, for me, straight away, somebody who doesn't have a lot of money, where are they going to start? Where are they going to start? Why not get started with trading and investing? And I'm much more for investing over the long term. So, I'm not like trading with leverage or anything like that, but you can also have leverage. So, if you have a small amount of money, um the broker will actually give you 10 times, sometimes up to a hundred times more. Not that I, you know, um that I condone that, but I'm saying you can. So, you can start with a small amount of money, which I don't think you can do with property.
So, to say that something's a better way to make money because it's a lower barrier to entry is a horrible argument. In fact, it's the opposite. If we're going to take your logic, we may as well sell lemonade stands outside the school playground because it's a low barrier to entry. We can just buy it's a ridiculous horrible argument. The higher barrier to entry usually means the better business model.
Really.
So, well, now go on explain why. Well, because if if something's very low barrier to entry, like for example, you can get into trading, you can get into, then usually you've got loads of people doing it.
Whereas with property, because the perception at least is that it's a higher barrier to entry. People don't do it. It's a rich man's game.
So, you're not arguing the fact that So, so I'm right. So, so people can start with a low amount of money, whereas with property, it's really difficult. Uh, no, you're not you're not right in that you don't need a lot of money. You can start with properties as well with very little amount of money if you know what you're doing. Like well, for example, rent to rent.
Okay.
For example, partnering with people and using someone else's money.
Yeah, of course. But I mean, I say if you own money to be able to invest, you do need a lot of money.
It depends how you do it. You can invest in Riot funds. You can get a REIT fund. What's What's a RIA fund? That's on the stock market.
Well, that's true. Good. Thank you.
But it's still property. That's kind of combination, isn't it?
Yeah. Let's just say 1 mil.
And realistically, let's say you're in a job and you're making three, four grand a month.
Mhm.
And you go, "Oh, I got a little bit of savings. I'm going to dabble in crypto and put 200 pound or 500 pound into cryptocurrency." It's like, okay, but realistically, how fast are you going to be able to make some serious profits and change your life through that?
Ah, well, okay, you have a point there. But I think that, you know, you've got to look at the medium to long term, not what can I make right now. In fact, what
As a property owner, you can do stuff quick.
What do you mean you can do stuff quick?
You can put 500 pounds into a property. You can start with nothing or or or into rent to rent. Take take control of a property and put it on Airbnb and make two grand a month.
Okay. I I mean that sounds quite complicated because
Very easy.
Easy or simple? Which one?
Both. But if you've not got money, whatever you do, if you've not got money, it's going to be a bit of work.
Yeah.
If you've not got money, you do need money.
You need a bit of work. You need to put a bit of sweat in.
You can't have passive income with no sweat to start off with. Yeah.
I I just think like when when we show our charts, we show 15 years, you know? We don't show one year or five years or whatever.
So, you just put a little You're one of these guys that say live below your mean, save up 200 pound a month and put it into the stock market and when you're 69 years old, you'll be a millionaire. I'm not about that life.
I don't know why you're talking like this suddenly. I don't talk like that.
You said you're one of those guys that goes Yeah, one of those guys that tells people to to put just £200 a month and and all that.
You've got to start somewhere. You got to start somewhere.
What you need is you need you need to make make fast money.
Okay. You make fast money.
And you do that as a property entrepreneur.
You do. Okay. Fine. That's business though. That's
Yeah, it is business. Okay.
But you But you do business.
Yeah. But Yeah. But yeah, I do business. But we're not talking about that. We're talking about investing in property versus investing in
But if I had no money, what I would do is I would raise money and invest someone else's money. But you can do that with this as well.
But that's too risky. I would I wouldn't sleep at night. If I raised 100 grand off my off my grandma to put into a meme coin, I'll be a bit worried.
Why are you talking about meme coins?
That's what you do. You invest in coins? That's You invest in crypto coins.
I don't invest in meme coins. I haven't invested in a single meme coin. What you mean like a goat with a sock or something stupid? That That's just ridiculous.
I don't know. I mean,
If you don't know, don't say I do it. I don't
Look, we're having a conversation. I'm I'm interested.
Are you interested? Well, then ask the question. I look the way I look at it is that you go for the biggest ones out there, the safest one. That's got to be Bitcoin.
You know, it's the liquid gold. Um, but also I'm talking about stocks and shares. You're talking about real companies.
Yeah. Yeah.
Where basically what you do is
It could go to zero.
A real company could go to zero. Do you think Amazon could go to zero in the next two years? Walmart.
It's extremely unlikely, but it's very possible. Look at the companies like uh you know those camera those camera companies. What was it? Um Jessups. they just suddenly overnight just went to zero.
There can be a company that does that but that's why we go into blue chips. Can I just tell you quickly what the definition is? Blue chip is one that is a brand name that you know and you you might even use right but that's just the first thing. also has to have hundreds of different products just in case something happens to one of them. Like Samsung had the exploding telephone, right? If that would have been their only product, they would have gone bankrupt. But they have thousands of products and they have to be geographically all over the world, not just in one country. Why? Because um a few years ago, do you remember the um the scandal that Volkswagen had with diesel?
Yeah. And so people in the states stopped buying Volkswagen cars, right? But it doesn't matter because they were booming in Brazil and China at the same time. So it's got to be all three by the way people. It's not just that one or two. It's got to be all three. Those companies Samuel in the next few years will not go to zero. They won't go to zero.
Just sounds very complicated. I'd rather just own houses because you complicated. Have you heard of Google?
Yeah, of course.
Okay. How is that complicated?
Is it? It's very complicated. It's extremely complicated company.
No, but no, I'm not asking you to run the company. What I'm asking you to do is to press a button like that and then 100 Google could go bust my friend.
Not in the next two years. You're not going to be in there for a while.
When did you last Google something?
You don't. You use chat GBT. That's the thing with these businesses. They can just bat change.
Google has come out with Gemini, which is going to be better than chat GBT.
I'm sure it will be, but we don't know. It's a gamble.
Oh my goodness. It's it's not gambling going into a solid company which is international all over. All you need to do is press a button. Look, click like that. This is how simple it is. Click like that, right? And a 100,000 of their employees are running around. They are coming up with new products like Gemini for example, their AI which is better. Um, and they are doing the sales, they're doing the marketing, they're doing the customer care, they're doing the admin for you. You're in Google. You're talking about Google, right?
It's an example.
Yeah. Which is one of the best biggest companies in the world, which is very unlikely. But I'm I'm just saying it could go bust. It could. But this is the thing. A lot of people that invest in stocks, they invest in companies that they like, "Oh, I quite like that."
Yeah. But that's not the thing to do.
Yeah. But that's what people do, though.
Yeah. But then people will But on that, that's not an argument because you're saying, "Okay, if somebody just buys a rundown property which is hanging off a cliff and you know it's Yeah.
No, you you you'd go to buy it and you wouldn't get insurance. You wouldn't get a mortgage. You wouldn't your lawyers would tell you there's too many red flags. they can't advise you buy it. Whereas crypto, it's just every man for themselves.
Why have you just gone from stocks to cryptos? We're talking about
Or even stocks,
Google Amazon. How about McDonald's? Are any of those going to go bust within the next two years?
Extremely unlikely.
Extremely unlikely. And they're the ones that we invest in. And by the way, when you buy that stock, where do you want it to go?
Up.
Down, right? Because
Why down?
Not because I'm selling short. And that's something we can do which you can't do in property. But it's the fact that I bought at this price right now. If it goes up, I'll make a bit of money. But what I'd rather do is it go down. Buy there as well. What's my average price now? It's in the middle. Boom. Here's my average price. Now, where do I want it to go?
Well, yes. Eventually,
If it keeps going down.
So, hence my my question to you. Is Google going to go to zero? Is Walmart going to go to zero? Is McDonald's going to go to zero? Is Microsoft going to go to zero? Is Amazon going to go? And the answer is no. So, stick with those. Don't go with this what you said. It's like, oh, I don't know what this does, but yeah, I'm going to go and buy it.
Yeah. Yeah. Now, you need to know what you're doing. Otherwise, you could be you could be screwed.
Of course. Yeah. How safe is it long term?
So, I would say that it's actually really safe the stock market, which is, you know, people are going to go, what? Obviously, you got to know what you're doing, but there are several ways that you can mitigate risk when it comes to the stock market. So, for example, we have something called a stop-loss. It's an electronic order which you can put in. Let's say you get in in a stock at $20. You can actually put a stop loss in just below it hoping that it goes up as much as possible. It could go up, you know, 100, 200, 300%. But if it just goes down to that point where you have that electronic order, you're out. You're not even there automatically. You don't have that in property. You don't have that in business. And I just think that why would I buy something without having this stop-loss? It's like having a safety net below you. The other thing you can do by the way is you can uh sell short. You can actually make money going down. Now you can't do that in property. You can wait till it goes down. Like but if you have property you're losing money, losing losing money. Whereas I actually you sell short which is sell at the top, buy back at the bottom, make money going down while I while you know markets are crashing and everything that people say on on TV the markets are crashing whatever you can actually make money go down. And the other thing, I mean, there's lots of them, asset allocation, diversification, hedging, and all of these things, but the big one is you can go on a demo account, a virtual account, and you can practice, practice, practice for one week, one month, one year, it doesn't matter to see whether you're getting it right, whether you're making money, and then you can go and you can go live. And you can't do that. You you can't do that in property.
Firstly, you're wrong. You can do that in property. I mean you can do for example you can do a purchase option agreement whereas so you agree to buy a property at a fixed price and if it goes up you buy it and if it doesn't you walk away that's almost the same as
So you paid for the option so you've lost a
One pound deposit.
A one pound deposit is it always
It it's whatever you agree but I usually do one pound yeah so firstly you're wrong you can do it in property
But but and then you're saying you don't buy whereas I'm making money going down
Yeah so so all the things you talked talked about in you can do in stocks. You can make money if it goes down. Same with in property. If you know what you're doing, you make money when the market's going down. You make money when you make money. It's
Interesting because when you were speaking, I didn't interrupt you at all. I just
So, is that the rule? Is that the rule?
I mean, I thought that you do your thing, I do my thing, but seems I can't get a word.
Go for it. Go for it.
I mean, I'm just clarifying. I'm clarifying.
You've interrupted me so many times. I don't even remember what the initial question was now.
The initial question was about risk.
Okay. So, clearly more people lose money investing in the stock market. Now, you know what you're doing, so it's fine because you know about stop losses and all that. But the average person that invests in the stock market doesn't know about that. The average person that invests in the stock market hasn't got a clue. Whereas the average person that invests in property, you could walk into an estate agency and just go that one and you're not going to lose money. You're going to buy a house. It's going to hold value over time. You're going to lose money. If you do that in the stock market, over 80% of businesses lose money in the first five years or close down. If you're investing in in businesses, if you're buying stocks and just picking stocks
That that is a startup business that what you just quoted was in the first two years 80% of startups fail, not businesses that are multinationals that are in several uh countries that have thousands of products, which is what we invest in.
So, did I interrupt you again?
So, when you did your thing,
What thing?
Your one minute piece, which you went over, I let you say your thing. All right. I could have done that to you.
So my point is investing in stock market is undeniably more risky.
Now you might be able to do things like put stop losses, but most people don't know about that, do they? Most people don't know how to do that. I don't know how to do that. If I invest in the stock market as an ignorant person, I'm probably going to lose money. Is that fair to say?
You're supposed to be talking about property. Why is property less risky? Because you walk into an estate agent and buy a property and you go like that and is that how you do it?
No, that's not how you do it. Even if you did, you could walk in with a blindfold and buy a house and you're going to make money over time.
That is I that is not true.
It is true.
So you can buy any property without seeing it like that and just go like that and you're guaranteed to make money.
Not obviously nothing's guaranteed but very likely cuz house prices double every 10 years.
Is this what you teach in your courses?
This is true. No, of course I don't teach people to buy blindfolded, but the even the people I know people that have bought houses that didn't have a clue what they were doing, but they just sit on it and it goes up in value.
You said a lot more than one minute.
Yeah. Because I've been interrupted 12 times. So from a safe from a risk perspective, you can't beat bricks and mortar. A stock can disappear if you can put stops as if you know what you're doing. But even if the house got burned down, the land is going to hold its value. It's it's there's a reason that we say safe as houses. I never said, by the way, that you have to invest in individual stocks. You can invest in ETFs, exchange traded funds, where there are like an index. You can have the S&P 500. You could do all of that. Great. Yeah. But over time, because you said over time, you always make money over time, it averages 10% a year. Over time since 1985. And by the way, by the way, since the history of the stock market, it's 6.9% a year. So over time, you definitely can make money.
Yeah, absolutely. So, it's quite similar um to to to an average property. But here's the thing, that's the best 500 companies, assuming that you know about the S&P 500. People that invest in the stock market normally don't.
Well, yeah, that's another thing.
You'd be surprised at the ignorance.
I wish they did.
Whereas, if you invested in in a property and you're ignorant, you'd be more likely to make money. So, I think from a risk perspective for for the average person that doesn't really know what they're doing, property is safer. If you know what you're doing, then fine. And
And on that point, are we on the debating now? Because like I said, you can go on a demo account and practice, practice, practice. What do you mean? All of my clients go on a demo.
Your clients may be, but for the average person watching this video, they don't know how to have a client account. They don't know, but they know how to go to an estate agent. They know how to go on right move. They had to put an offer forward and buy a house safer.
Okay.
You really think? No. No way. One
100%.
Demo account. I can make money shorting the market. Oh, come on. property safer.
I think we'll let people watching this vote.
With property, you can compound your money very well. Um, if you're in property and you know how to invest, you can use that skill set to partner to package and sell deals. How many people in the stock market could you say, "Oh, you make money in the stock market. Let me package you a stock opportunity and sell it to you." It's very difficult. So with property rather than just investing in property which is slow investing is slow but you can also make huge chunks of money by knowing the skills to invest in property. So you can make fast pound and slow pound. You can be an entrepreneur. Don't think you can do that in stocks.
Right? So your argument based basically is that it is slow, right? Because it's very fast in the stock market. I mean very fast. Um so so I'll give you an example. So I turned 2,000 into 620,000 in four years just by buying one crypto. Yeah.
Yeah. That that that that's that's cherry picking though, isn't it?
No, but I'm just saying that that's possible. And when you do your thing, when your your thing that you say like that,
Yeah, if you did that of crypto coins, you'd be you'd be bankrupt.
I'm saying that what you're saying is that it is slow. But what I can do is not do property. I can do business, which is a totally different pillar because there's um, you know, stocks and shares or trading investing. There's probably
So you're saying business which involves this particular thing and I could do that. Sure. I you're right. I mean, if you're going to go off pie and be entrepreneurial, it is possible to do that. You can't do that with stocks. That is correct.
Yeah. So two one but compounding I haven't finished but compounding I have to tell you
Is definitely faster when it comes to stocks and shares. I mean I can literally buy something it goes up 10% in a week right and I can sell it. I can then go into something else. Now I've got more money. Now I go into something else with more money and that could go up or down because I'm selling short as well. And you can do that much faster. Compounding definitely is much much faster. It's much more liquid with trading.
It's much more liquid too.
What is
Stocks and crypto? You're not supposed to be arguing my side.
I'm just being fair.
Okay, fine. Thank you. So, that's two one to me then.
No, it's two-1 to me.
It is definitely about speed. It was about uh Was it about speed or was it about
I can I can sell my my portfolio and within 24 hours I can have it in my bank account. Can you do that with yours?
No.
At the price they want. I mean, you can I'll buy off you for 50 p. I mean, you could, but in the price that you want, you wouldn't be able to do that.
No.
No.
But I think it's a free one now.
No, cuz I think it's quite a good thing that you can't cuz who said being super liquid is is is a good thing.
I like I like super liquid. Go. I want to hear this now. Go on. Why not?
Because if you're It's actually Grant Cardone who's a billionaire.
I love super liquid.
Grant Cardone who's a billionaire says this.
So if something's super liquid,
Yeah.
i.e. you can just take it out in seconds.
It only takes, you know, you could be a bit tipsy one evening or be a bit merry or you got a wife being a bit oh what and you can just boom gone. Whereas like like
And I could be like, "Give me your crypto."
And I could
How am I supposed to give you my crypto?
Now, if I put a gun to your head and said, "Give me Give me your code."
I wouldn't be able to. I don't know my codes.
Who has your codes?
You're I'm not going to tell you, am I? I've had a gun to your head. Who has your codes?
I I don't have them on me.
I can get it much easier than you get my properties. My properties I literally couldn't. It has to go through lawyers. it and and that's safety.
And so that's your argument. So that we're going back to speed again, right? The speed is slow.
Why is that good? I like So your argument your argument is I might get drunk and have a fat finger and kind of
Now listen, if you've got 100 grand, fine.
But if you've got 50 million, I'd much rather have 50 million pounds in property than in a crypto wallet that could be hacked or stolen or
A cold wallet. A cold wallet cannot be hacked. I've been hacked.
You No, you haven't. A cold wallet cannot be hacked. There isn't a single cold wallet that has been hacked and they've gotten the money out.
Coinbase,
That's that's an exchange like a broker. That is not a wallet.
So, here's the thing. When you buy a property has to go through lawyers and they tell you how to make sure everything's saved, it's done properly. It's all got the title. It's all registered.
I don't want that. That's slow. You can't But you can't lose a piece of paper or lose a code. What about all the people that have millions of pounds in Bitcoin, but they lost the code or they lost the
No, but you know why that was? because at the beginning they didn't take it, you know, seriously, you know, cuz you could have bought with 10,000. Uh,
But most people that have cryptocurrency will have it in Coinbase.
Okay. But if you do it properly, we're always talking about doing it properly. We're not just talking about your thing.
But that's the thing. You're relying on people being smart, educated, knowing what to do, that's super high risk. Most people aren't. I'm a pretty smart man. I'm financially literate. I'm a multi-millionaire. I've been hacked. I've had my Bitcoin stripped from me. And it's horrible. I've never had property stripped from me. Never been stolen. You can't steal my house.
Okay. In my opinion, I like the fact I mean, it's it's my whole thing that it's liquid and I can have it in my bank account within 24 hours.
So, would you be comfortable? You'd be comfortable with 100 million sat in cryptocurrency.
Absolutely. In my cold wallet. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.
But most people don't even know what a cold wallet is.
Your argument is that other people like are stupid. Like they're not. They they can learn. It's it's you got to learn. You got to learn about property. You can't just do this. You got to learn.
Now, but are you saying that people should just go out and buy property?
Yeah.
Without knowing what they're doing.
It'd be much better and more lucive if they knew what they were doing. But yeah, buy go and buy houses before it's too late. We're in the last buying cycle.
Oh, okay. Cycles in property. Okay, fine.
No, I think I think that it's going to be, you know, like in London.
Mhm.
People don't own houses in London anymore. In fact, some do. two types of people own houses in London. You got really rich people and you got people that bought a long time ago.
Yeah. Yeah.
Now you can't just go, oh, I fancy a normal family. Oh, I fancy buying a house in London. It doesn't happen.
That's going to be the case across the entire country soon.
Right. So, what's quicker? Coming back to the point, what's quicker? Is it properties or is it thing in terms of compounding? I think that if you learn the skills of property investment, you can then adapt as a property entrepreneur and be very very lucky very quick just solely investing.
Yeah.
Um I think that the risk is higher in cryptocurrency, but so is the reward. You can't 10x extra money in 6 months in property investment with just buying a house. It's not going to happen.
Whereas you can in crypto. So I think that uh but but I don't think that's necessarily a good thing. I think it's dangerous actually. Okay. And it also is gambling.
It's not when you know what you're doing. The risk is you're risking this much in order to make this much.
And I think that it's potentially one big Ponzi scheme.
Oh, I see what you're doing here. You're definitely trying to piss me off here. Why is it a Ponzi scheme? It's not I'm not even Do you know what? No, I'm I see what you're doing here. No, no, I'm I'm not going to get into this.
Why you not going to get into it?
Because it's not a bloody Ponzi scheme. Do you know even what's the definition of a Ponzi scheme? A Ponzi scheme is where there's no product. You're taking
That's first of all, that's [ __ ]
It's not.
It can't be a product.
No, there's no product. It's where you're taking money. You're borrowing money and you're paying back the investors with other people's money.
Yeah. Robbing Peter to pay Paul kind of thing.
That there's no product with cryptocurrency. I worry that there's no product.
You worry that there's no product. But there is a product.
What's the product? It's a peer-to-peer system bypassing people in the middle like the banks who all they do is slow things down and they want to take money, right?
Yeah.
So, I can basically three things. One is I can send it to you in another country not in 3 to 5 days but in 3 to 5 minutes. So, it's much faster. Hold on. Hold on. The other thing is it's much cheaper. It doesn't matter whether it's 1 million or 10 million. It costs just $1 if you're using the Tron network or the Salana network, right? or and and it's safer safer because I own the keys. Where does the word bankrupt come from? Bankrupt. It's cuz the banks you said yourself you go to the bank. I don't know whether it's here or somewhere else. You said and can I have my money? They didn't have your money.
Yeah.
But I have my money. It's in my hard wallet.
I I love that. I agree with that. And what we're talking about is No, hold on. We're talking about Yeah, but we're talking about the blockchain.
Yeah,
The blockchain is wonderful.
Are you okay?
I'm talking about most coins. Most coins are Ponzi coins. They don't then there's no no value in it at all. A lot of value in the blockchain. But the coins
I can't disagree with that because most of them are scams but we don't invest in those things. We invest in the biggest baddest not baddest in the negative sense in the ones that have the highest market capitalization. So it's price times the number of coins that are out there and they're all listed on coinarketcap.com and you just pick the biggest ones.
Well, we'll know. We'll find out, won't we? Which ones are the Ponzi schemes and which ones are legit coins in in years to come.
But for some people their money will go to zero.
Yes.
A lot of people buy coins and their money go to zero was if you invest in property it's not going to go to zero is it?
I mean okay we invested in a property. Yeah.
And we lost 50% of it and the only reason we were managed to get out of it I mean it was I can't
How did you lose 50%? It don't make any sense.
Well because it was on a road. I I don't believe the store.
I haven't even told you the story.
You did. You said you lost 50%. I don't believe that.
Yeah. 50%.
No, you didn't.
Well, I mean, to be fair, I wasn't managing it because I don't know much more about misinformed. Misinformed.
Hold on, hold on.
An ex partner.
Ex partner.
Was there some money?
Well, that's not why we broke up.
No, but maybe.
No, no, no. So, it was around 50,000. Um, and
How much road?
How much did you buy it for?
I can't remember, but let's say you can't just 50,000 and we sold it for 25,000, bro. You bought a house. What year was this?
Uh, this was in the last So, we finally got rid of it about two years ago and it was up north and it was squatters came in and we couldn't get them out and it ran down,000 run down run down.
You bought it for 50,000.
Finally, somebody bailed us out and bought it for 25,000.
They Man, I wish you told me about this.
Actually, I'm surprised I didn't.
That's crazy.
I don't know what I'm involved in. I'm not involved in property.
I'm involved in something that's liquid that I can get out. If there was some squatters in my cryptos, I would have sold it and put it in my bank account. Here's the thing with property. You know what's coming. Now, sure, you got maintenance, the odd bad tenant that pays late or there's issues, but you budget for that. So, I've got a lot of staff that run my properties. Now, I've never met anyone that's a crypto investor that's got staff or a team. It's not It's not It's not a real business.
Well, exactly. But that's the whole point. Like you're arguing against yourself here. Sorry. Time commitment. Now I've got to hire a whole load of people. You
It's a real business. I'm providing value to the marketplace. I've got a team. I've got tenants. Wherever you've got any real business,
You know, the question was time commitment. Do you know that?
Any real business, you have time commitment because you're bringing a real product to the table. When you've got a fake product, a fake business, then yeah, you've got no team, you got no staff, you got no customers because it's fake.
Mhm. It could go to zero. You won't be able to afford to hire a member of staff because you might not be able to pay them if your crypto didn't work out. No thanks.
So, coming back to the topic of time commitment, flipping an egg. Talk about round the houses literally. I wonder where that came from. So, basically, we spend maximum 20 minutes a day maximum. If the price of a really good solid business business like Amazon, yeah, for example, or Google Yeah. or Meta um or Netflix or whatever, if it goes down, we start trying to lower our average price. If it goes up, we start kind of milking the cow. And all it does is go up and down, up and down. If it goes down even more, Christmas has come early because then you just buy some more. And then when it goes back up again, oh my goodness, we've made more money. It's 20 minutes a day maximum. Maximum. I don't have somebody calling me up and going, "My light bulb needs changing." All right, I'll be right. I had a friend Mark, right? I met him at Tony Robbins event years and years ago. He had a big Well, not compared to yours, but he had a pretty okay, very small property portfolio, but compared to yours, but he had like 16 properties in the Kent area. And he spent literally all day just going around and fixing. Now, he loved it. He loved it, but that was a full-time commitment. Me, it's 20 minutes a day maximum. Maximum. So, for me, it's a lot less. I don't want to be dealing with first part. Even I can't even do stuff in my own house yet in somebody else's house, you know.
Yeah. No, I just think if you if you want a real business, then you're going to have real issues and you need to be able to put systems in place. And if you're going to grow a portfolio, you know, want hundreds of tenants, of course. But that's the same with any with any any business. What do you mean? I have a 14 million pound uh sorry 12 million 14 million. Um that's just stocks and shares, right? Not anything else. It's still 20 minutes a day. M
This a real business, isn't it?
Is that in the um S&P 500?
No, that's cryptos. That's stocks. It's a bit of No. What? What? Just buying the index? No. No. I do a little bit more than that.
Yeah, it's it's it's probably um I think it's a fair argument. I think that investing in in things like stocks is definitely quicker in and out. Um it's more passive. You've got less legal and things like that. So, that's good if you want that. But what I want is I want to build real wealth and have real businesses and I want to looking at the uh Sunday Times Rich List. I mean, everyone's investing in property. When I meet billionaires, what they're doing, they're they're building houses. They're adding to the um economy, providing affordable homes for people. I'm about that. I'm not about hopefully my coin goes up. I just think it's a bit um it's the kind of thing that wannabes do and they get excited about a coin. It's like, you know, I I made I made £250,000 last week. Um, and I look at my the money came and we sold a few bits and uh and I saw the profit and I'm just like, okay, nice one. And then I see people on uh Instagram where they made like 20 pound on a crypto coin. It's like, man, you need to get real business shares. Not you keep going on about cryptos. By the way, how
You know, you pick and choose.
What is your crypto portfolio worth by the way?
Um, about a million.
Yeah. Okay. So, it's like
Yeah. But I don't hate crypto.
That's a real business. We're a million. I mean, that's
That's not a real business.
Okay.
It's it's a high-risk investment that I'm prepared to go to zero.
Okay. How long have you had that?
Um well, that account or that million in there or
No, no, yeah. Yeah. No. When did you start like having crypto in your in your
So, I started having crypto in 2017.
Right. So, 2017 is now Right. So, we're talking about five, six, seven, eight years later. Has it gone to zero?
Yes. It's worth a million. How's it going?
No. No, no, no.
I started with about 15 grand.
Yeah.
Put it in 2017.
Mhm.
And then in 2019 it got hacked and I lost a lot.
That's cuz you Okay.
And I'm a smart person that knows a business.
Obviously. You You said it wasn't business. Make up your mind. Is it business?
No, I understand business. And I got it got hacked and then I started again from scratch.
Business and it got hacked.
Yeah. And also you're picking and choosing between stocks and crypto depending on what suits your argument.
Keep going on crypto all the time.
No, but then you won't let me choose between property investment and property entrepreneurship. So
Because that's not because we're talking about investing and
You've got two different things. You've got stocks and you've got crypto
Trading and investing. It's it's a thing. Tra it's a pillar trading investment.
And also you're picking these crazy examples of how but I could do the same. I've got examples.
Well, I'm not stopping you.
Yeah. Yeah. Like examples as well like paid1 pound option to buy a piece of land and then got planning permission and then the land's worth hundreds of thousands of pounds but I'm not going to use that as a standard.
Can I can I can I ask you though?
So you got1 and then you didn't put any more money and you just flipped it
A little bit of money
On
And how much just roughly
25 but grand.
Yeah. 25 grand. That's my point. A lot of people don't at 25 grand. Mine's 2,000 to 500.
Yeah. But you can do that on a much smaller scale.
Sure. I did that on a big piece of land where I made six figure profits in a small place of time.
But that I wouldn't say that as an as a standard example though because that's not you know normal. I bought a hotel for a pound one pound option brought brought in about 80 grand last month revenue.
Okay. But how much did you pay for it? Like you did the option and then
I haven't bought it. I just control it.
Okay. And then you made money from that.
Yeah. So I paid one pound for the hotel but that's the deposit.
Yeah. And I've got the option to buy it in the next 10 years for £2 million.
Oh, I think I watched that video.
But right now, I'm renting out making a fortune on it.
Yeah.
So, but that's
Even though it doesn't belong to you.
It doesn't belong to me, but I've got the option to buy it.
Yeah.
And it's on the title deeds. I've got a restriction on it.
So, you haven't put any money in apart from that one pound?
No, I have. I've put a bit money in.
Okay. So, how much?
Um, six figures.
Okay, fine.
But but but this is the thing. I'm doing that on a hotel. You I I started out doing on a give you All right. If you want, give me something which is 2,000.
Okay. I bought a house uh with a one pound option.
Um spent £750 on legal fees.
Mhm.
No refurb, no nothing. Um and rented out, made about4500 a month profit. Had the option to buy the house for 81 grand. But then when the option came to to actually buy it, it was worth 160.
Yeah.
So I made 60 grand and I bought it with all the rent that I'd saved. It was literally 70.
So what did you do without putting any money in? You then flipped it? No, I I still own it. I bought it
For how much?
81 grand.
No, but No, but I bought it with a mortgage because I know you don't know about this, but when you buy property, cuz it's so safe, you can actually get mortgages unlike stocks and crypto. Cuz of course, they wouldn't loan to so high risk.
That's not true. I told you that you can get leverage on it. You actually can
On what? To do what?
To to do whatever you want with
S&P 500. You get leverage. Nah,
I don't know. I've never tried that on individual stocks. Which is which is the most safe stock.
If you're trading, they'll give you 100 times more money. By the way, I'm not condoning this at all because it's a stupid thing to do.
Stupidly risky. But in property, it's not risky at all to get mortgages.
So, you got the option. I got the option to buy for 81 grand. You get a mortgage, but the deposit I used from the rent that I'd saved, which I accumulated whilst controlling the property.
I have to say it sounds really good. I don't really understand it. I'd have to like, you know.
Yeah. Yeah. Cuz it's a bit complicated. It's the same as some of your stuff when you're talking about these safe wallets and stop losses and all that. It's a bit complicated.
It's not complicated.
No, but to me, what I'm saying isn't complicated. You can learn it. And to you, it's not. But for the average person, I'm trying to talk for the average person. I get that the average person can't get a purchase option and pay a pound and do this. And I get, but they also can't get uh stop losses and all. They don't know what that is. They don't work or trading with pips. They don't know what that means. Safe. So, for the average person, is it better to invest in property or crypto and stocks? I would say property is a lot safer. I I would say don't do it unless you have got a minimal amount. It's it's like saying look it's really simple which it is to drive a car especially in automatic right you don't have to do all this um and I just think that you know just get the minimal amount of education before you buy property.
Yeah. No I would I would not I would not disagree with that. Um, but also you have to learn from doing as well.
Some people just learn and learn and learn and think and think and think. Just got to go and do it. The time is now.
Yeah. True true. Yeah. You can learn from from your failures very very fast. That's true. Yeah.
Or or or learn alongside, you know.
Yeah. I I would say learn a little bit and then start and learn like that. Yeah. But to just try, oh, I don't want to, you know, like this. This is crazy for
or if you're going to if you're going to start in crypto and you haven't got any education, just make sure that you can afford to lose what you're investing.
So, for me, if you're buying Bitcoin, you're not going to lose. You're not.
No, you are. I lost. I got hacked.
Yeah. Okay, fine. I mean, okay, fine. Because no one can hack a house. I get that. I get that. I get
no one can take a house off you. It's safe. It's going to go down the generations.
Do you get taxed on cryptocurrency when you when you get taxed on it?
Yeah. So, that's one thing I wanted to talk about is the fact that you can wrap it up in an ISA, right?
Um, you can wrap it up in your SIP, your self-invested personal pension.
Can you though? Can you in cryptocurrency in your in your SIP fund?
Uh, no.
You No, you can't.
No, but you used to be ABLE TO. YOU
OH, [screaming] YOU STILL BE able to.
Okay. In your ISO, you can, but you can buy you can buy commercial.
What am I talking about? [ __ ] No, you can't do it in your ISO either. It's all gone.
Stocks and shares. Stocks and shares
in in what? In your SIP.
So, stocks and shares you can wrap up in a taxfree rapper like an ISA and a SIP.
S&P 500, for example.
No, but any any stock and share?
S&P 500.
Yeah. S&P 500, which is which is an ETF of 500 different companies. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Cuz that would you say that's the best way for people that are just like not really bothered about learning loads? I mean, I guess it is because it averages, you know, or has in the last
six, seven% a year.
More. More probably.
And you get a bit of dividends as well, right?
Yeah, a little bit of dividend.
Yeah, I got a bit of that. See, for my kids.
Yeah. And did you wrap it up in a nicer and a sip?
No, I haven't. It's too small.
No, but do that. Jiser, do a div.
Yeah. No, I know. I would I've done that with I've got a SAS for my own prop for my properties, commercial properties. Yeah.
And then also, we've got a um because on property, this is the You can't do this with stocks and stuff and cryptos, but we've got um properties that we own in our trading businesses. So, if you've got a development business, um and again, speak to your own tax accountant, but what we've done, if you've got a trading business that's a property development company that buys and sells houses, but you own a bunch of houses in that company, then when you die, those houses go to your kids taxfree.
Wow.
So, there's stuff you can do tax- wise, which I don't think you can do with crypto in that in the same way because this is a rich man's game. So they make there's a lot of loopholes.
What is property is a rich man's game.
Rich man's game.
But that's what I'm saying.
Yeah, but as a Yeah, but if you can get in to a rich man's game, that that's more aspirational
if you can get
Yeah, but but the tax loopholes that you can do within property.
How about this? How about you start making money with the stuff that I do and then start buying properties with it? Well, how about you learn about property and you start being a property entrepreneur, deal sourcing and controlling properties and then use that money to invest
and then put 5% of your wealth into cryptocurrencies.
Sure, you can start there.
That's what I do.
But as you start seeing what happens to crypto since it's the future of finance, I think you're going to start putting more than 5% in there for sure.
I think that we'd agree on a lot of stuff. Um, but I mean, yeah, I'm just I'm just I'm just not really a fan of what
By the way, you can wrap it up as well in a SAS as well, and you can actually buy coins. You can't do it in an ISA or a SIP, but in a you can actually buy cryptocurrencies
in a SAS.
Yeah, I I do it. So, yeah.
So, you can set up SAS and you can buy Bitcoin.
Yeah.
And it's taxree.
Yeah.
Sure. [sighs]
100%. I can show you my
See, that's quite good. Are you sure?
Yeah. Yeah. That's quite good.
I do it. I'll show you my calendar.
So, you got assass and you buy Yeah.
crypto with that. Oh, that's cool. I might do that.
I'll do that.
It's pretty cool.
So, in conclusion, my thoughts. I don't think stocks are bad. I don't think crypto is bad. I think property is the safest. I think that when you buy a property, it goes through uh if you can't get a mortgage, if it's a bad deal, the mortgage broker will say, "We can't loan to you." If it's a bad deal, the solister will say, "Oh, look, there's these red flags." Whereas if you're going out buying crypto coins and even stocks, the financial advisers are just trying to get paid on their commission and push their products. I think property is safer. Look on the Sunday Times Rich List. It's where all the wealthy are buying. I think it's a higher barrier to entry, which is actually a good thing because it means you can package and sell deals. It's where I've made million my money millions and millions of pounds. You can do things really creative like get mortgages, which is really tough for for stock market. You can also get uh creative finance, vendor finance, you can buy on purchase option agreements. You can control properties you don't own and squeeze the profits from them. Get cash flow. You can partner. I know and love property. Um, but saying that I don't think stocks are bad, but I just think it's much more risky and high, you know, more volatile, which is why I've got much less money in coins and stock pocket.
Okay. So I would say that what you were talking about the volatility is exactly why I prefer trading and investing cuz most people and this is just a learning curve. They really like oh volatility is going up and down. That's exactly what I want. I want it to go down not up. I want it to go down so I can buy some more. When I've got a nice hefty thing in there when it starts coming back up that's where I make my money. You can also make money going down called selling short which you can't do anywhere else. Definitely can't do it in property. I love the fact that it's liquid. I I'm really surprised you don't like that. I like I love the fact I am enamored married to the fact that you could it's liquid. I could sell it and within 24 hours it's in my bank account. I feel really really good about that. Um, and you can practice on a demo account for as long as you like and you can wrap it up not cryptos although you can do cryptos in a SAS but you can do all stocks and shares, gold, silver, um, you can do commodities like oil for example. all of these things in an ISA and in a sip. So for me, I prefer uh trading investing. That's why I spend all my time doing it. But you know, when you were talking about all the different things, I have to say it's like it sounds really impressive if you know what you're doing. You say it's easy and simple, but it doesn't sound very simple, I have to say. But it does for somebody who, you know, wants to make big money, it I mean it sounds intriguing. I wouldn't mind, you know, I don't have the time, but basically, yeah, it works. The thing is you got to invest in what you know.
That's the most important thing. Choose what you want to invest in. Study it. Learn it. And if you know what you're investing in, like even people come to me with deals and I've got this property opportunity in Hong Kong. And I'm like, I don't know that market. I'm not going to invest in something unless I know it.
So if you know cryptocurrencies and stock market, then that's what you need to invest in. If you know property, we know people that have made millennions in both. Warren Buffett's made millennions in the stock market. Um, it clearly is it's a real thing. Billions. Yeah, it's a real thing
to say to not say so would be would be would be stupid. Um,
now I do own property.
Yeah. Yeah.
That's what my partner focused on and she doesn't know this. And you have a little bit.
I got a little bit. It's
liquid. You got a million liquid.
You could sell it tomorrow.
Yeah, I could.
Yeah.
Is it tax free though?
Thank you very much. Thank you.