Transcription
I meant peace, so M be a great LeBron James recently tied NBA legend Larry Bird in triple-doubles at 59 with his victory over Lonzo Ball and the LA Lakers last Thursday night. This led to a very fervent debate between Skip Bayless and Shannon Sharpe. Of course, they're gonna talk about it, and I'm gonna chime in. Time him with the great Larry Bird for sixth place on the all-time list.
For the kids out there, Larry Bird was a three-time MVP, three-time NBA champion. And let me also add on to what Joy Taylor just stated about Larry Bird. Yes, Larry Bird was a three-time MVP, and he also won his three MVPs consecutively from the '83-'84 season to the '85-'86 season. He won three consecutive MVPs. And I also believe, if I remember correctly, that he finished second in MVP voting in '87 to Magic Johnson and in '88 to Michael Jordan.
The Larry Bird also was the first man to to usher in or to enter the 50-40-90 Club. He did that twice, in 1987 and 1988. As I've stated numerous times on this channel, out of an item and my honest opinion, Larry Bird was greater than LeBron James is. I believe that LeBron James is just now, in the last couple of seasons, entering into the class of Larry Bird in regards to his mental acuity. Well, separated LeBron from Larry Bird in my view was his mental approach. Yes, of course, we all know that LeBron James is far superior to Larry Bird physically, but mentally, the gap between Larry Bird and LeBron was as wide as the physical gap between LeBron James and Larry Bird. LeBron has just started to close the gap mentally in the last couple of seasons.
Larry Bird could do things because of his mental acuity, his mental strength, that LeBron James simply could not do until the last couple of years. When you watch LeBron play, you see the freedom of mind. He does not have the burden, the self-imposed burden on his conscious, that he had prior to winning the championship in Cleveland. That was a huge, huge burden that was once again self-imposed that you could see has been alleviated after he defeated the Golden State Warriors in 2016. Larry Bird ever had that. Larry Bird from the very beginning had it. Had an extremely aggressive approach to the game, which led him to get involved in a lot of physical altercations when he first came into the NBA.
But Larry Bird, in my view, is probably the greatest clutch shooter of all time, even over, even over the great Michael Jordan. If, if I needed somebody to make one jump shot in a clutch moment, I would probably take Larry Bird even over Michael Jordan. That's how great Bird was until he, until he suffered a series of debilitating injuries starting in the mid-80s. He hurt his back. I believe he was helping his mother around the house, something like that. It was digging some type of ditch and he hurt his back in like '85. And then he had a lower leg injury in '88 where he missed the whole season. We came back, he was never the same after that.
Growing up, Larry Bird's my favorite. Really, I guess not know that I had him read. You had to have known that because I knew it because Larry Bird, uh, Shannon Sharpe has mentioned it on this show numerous times. He mentioned it the last time that you spoke about Larry Bird, that Larry Bird was his favorite player growing up. With my God, Larry Bird was LeBron James before LeBron James. It's LeBron James. Uh, I don't know if I would go that far. Maybe he means in regards to Larry Bird being a small forward who could take over the game and dominate the game. Maybe he means it from that perspective. But LeBron James was not Larry Bird until the last of seasons. Mentally, mentally, Larry Bird was a far more dominant player mentally than LeBron James has ever been. LeBron is just now starting to enter into that phase of mental dominance, mostly because most of the old guard of great NBA players is no longer around. Guys like Kevin Garnett and Paul Pierce and Kobe Bryant, people who could, who could contest him mentally and defeat him mentally, are no longer around.
Now, LeBron James has superseded all those players, not only because of his skill level and his physical abilities, but now he's finally coming into the fullness of his, of his manhood as a basketball player. So he has transcended all of those players. Now he's in the upper echelon of all-time greats. When you talk about LeBron James, you also have to mention guys like Bill Russell, Kareem, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Michael Jordan. LeBron is in that room. I'm not sure if he's at that table, but he's in the room. The main table to me is Jordan, Kareem, and Bill Russell. Larry Bird and Magic, they have chairs there, but those chairs, you know, they can't sit there full-time. LeBron to me is just outside of that table. But there's nothing. Both guys could score the basketball, could rebound the basketball, could assist. I don't know, people know this, but Larry Bird's a 24-point scorer, a 10-rebound, six-assist four career. And that's counting the debilitating injuries that he had, particularly starting from the '88-'89 season where he had some lower leg. I'm trying to remember what it was. If he broke his ankle, US foot, or bone spur, something like that. He had, well, he missed a whole, basically the whole '88-'89 season. He came back, he was still a great player, but he wasn't quite the same after that. LeBron James is 27, 7, and 7. So they're very, very similar to what they do.
Let's also please understand that LeBron James is playing in an era where there is a far higher knowledge of physical fitness, conditioning, so on and so forth. But LeBron James is more athletic, could get to the rim a lot easier than Larry. 15 trillion times better defender? No, he's not a 15 trillion times better defender than Larry Bird. Larry Bird was a three-time All-Defensive team member in the early 80s. I believe he was on the second team, but he was, he made some All-Defensive team. Larry Bird was not a terrible defender. He just wasn't fast. A lot of times, people try to associate Larry Bird's lack of of tangible foot speed with him being a bad athlete. He was not a bad athlete. There are many forms of great athleticism. He had phenomenal hand-eye coordination, and he also was very quick. He had quick hands, extremely quick hands, and he had phenomenal anticipation, which made up for his lack of foot speed. That's the reason why he was able to bait Isaiah Thomas into that inbounds pass that he stole and gave it off to Dennis Johnson, and Dennis Johnson got the bucket.
Also, please keep in mind, Larry Bird averaged six assists a game with a great point guard like Dennis Johnson on his team. He was not a ball hog like LeBron. LeBron is a ball hog. That's why I said you can't always look at numbers. You can't always look at stats to determine who the greater player was. They both make their teammates much better. They both make their teams much better. That's not true. Larry Bird will guard the other team's best player if that player happened to play his position. Now, he is, he a transcendent athlete like LeBron James, where you could put LeBron on a Derrick Rose or a Kobe Bryant, things like that? No, of course not. But Larry Bird will guard Bernard King, he will guard Dominique Wilkins, he would guard Alex English, he would guard Xavier McDaniel. The 80s, the NBA in the 80s was rife with great small forwards, much greater small forwards than you have today. Now, in today's game, you have LeBron, you have KD, you know, you have a few other guys. A lot of these guys are what I call 2.5s, meaning they gravitate between shooting guard, small forward, you know, like guys like Kawhi and Jimmy Butler and Paul George. No good to great players. But, um, in Larry Bird's era, you had some all-time great small forwards. You know, George Gervin was kind of a 2.5, he gravitated between shooting guard and small forward as well. But Larry would guard his man. He wasn't, he was not the terrible defender that Shannon is trying to make him out to be to make his argument. But, you know, when the games on the last year, he just jumped on Kemba Walker. They playing Charlotte. He got on a shrewd, shrewd ur. No, even though it's Charlie Brown, they call it Schroder. But anyway, it's a different guy. Yeah, well, you know, diggity, he guard Hill, guard the B, will guard the best player when it comes time. But Skip, and how do you argue for MVPs? The three. That's what you do. I'm just taking the numbers. Not for MVPs, two, three. Both the three champions. But nobody else has even come close to winning the Finals MVP on the winning team that LeBron was on. So looking at the numbers, looking at the longevity, I don't know. I don't even know. I don't know how you could say anything other than, hmm, the greatest small forward in the 70-plus history of the NBA. Dr. Dr. James must be very, very proud of this young man. Hmm. Is one LeBron James born Laurie Jane? Yeah, December 30th, 19. You know what? Wait a minute. He's about to be started, right? Hey, kicking whooping, putting Bushman, people like E23. Joy, fun. I love him. Look, Shannon makes a compelling argument, but no, this is a definitely a debate. It definitely is a conversation. I think that if you look at Larry Bird, his peak compared to LeBron James at his peak, you can pretty much put both their names in a hat and pull out whichever one you want and take that person. The same way that LeBron has his advantages over Larry Bird physically, Larry has his mentally. He also has a far greater long-range shooter, a far greater mid-range shooter, a far greater free-throw shooter. Anticipation, I will give a slight edge to Larry Bird. Of course, I've led us ISM. You give a great edge to LeBron James. Clutch performer, I will give an edge to Larry Bird, and not a great edge. LeBron is much better than the question people give him credit for. But Larry Bird is better in the clutch. At least you were somewhat conflicted here because I did not know Larry Bird was your guy. Oh my God. Oh, and you didn't have those old heavy Grinch. I do. What those were? But you know how many bike played it? I know how you played it. I had. Yeah, they call you boy, the escalator. Skip, cuz I went out real slow, but I'm gonna get to the top. Larry Bird did not have ups. Well, you know what? Let me, let me, um, stop Skip right there for a moment. No, Larry didn't have crazy ups. He wasn't a high flyer, but he, you know, his vertical was 28 inches. It wasn't like it was, it was 15 inches. Larry has his share of dunk overs. Is it? No, there's some guys that Larry Bird dunked on. You know, he dunked on Dennis Rodman, great reverse baseline dunk that he had on Dennis Rodman when they played in the Eastern Conference Finals in '87. Larry Bird had like the 28-inch vertical, which is the same vertical as Karl Malone. But nobody said, nobody says that Karl Malone was a bad athlete. Well, because Karl Malone had that great physique. People associate athleticism with Karl Malone, you know, as well as the fact that, you know, he was so aggressive on the court. Larry Bird was aggressive also, but he also had a great finesse game. So all in all, Larry Bird was a much better athlete than people give credit for. And as I already stated, there's a lot that goes into athleticism rather than just tangible, you know, tangible metrics like leaping ability and things of that nature.
If you're talking ups, you got me. If you're talking game in and game out stats, December, January, February, you got me. I agree, LeBron is one of the great stat compilers of all time. By the time he's finished, she's probably gonna have every cumulative record in NBA history. Just all-around talent, just, just game in. If you're talking longevity, you really got me because Larry Bird barely made it through 13 years. He actually missed a whole year in there, so he really just played 12 years. So remember, and Larry Bird also, once again, he did not have the information that modern-day players have, the access to performance-enhancing drugs and personal trainers. And back then, in the 80s, I mean, the 80s was really the vanguard of of players even weightlifting. Like in most professional sports, other than football, most of the athletes did not even really lift weights. Now, you had certain players who would know when they were get into the twilight of their career, they would turn to weightlifting to try to rejuvenate their body, like Dr. J did. He turned to weightlifting near the end. But most of the players, they just did calisthenics, maybe get in the pool. They certainly were not gym rats in regards to to lifting weights and things of that nature, not like they are today. LeBron James has a freakish physique, a lot of a genetic and natural, some of it not. People get upset when I say that, but it is what it is. Larry Bird, Devin, no nothing about that. He had the body of a beer drinker. Bird was more cognizant and aware of physical conditioning. He probably would not have hurt his back like he did back in '85. Came in really just 12 years, and LeBron is now in his 15th year. So you got to give Leary, not longevity, but in that time allotted, and his back started to flare up because let's face it, nobody in those days took care of themselves the way LeBron James does. Thank you, Skip. Thank you. This is the first time that I'm watching this segment in full. So thank you, Skip, for saying that the players back then did not have the understanding and the knowledge of physical conditioning that players have today, which really is adding five to six more years on to their careers. Let me also say this, Larry Bird was a better passer than LeBron James. And LeBron is a phenomenal passer, but I would give Larry Bird the slight edge in passing over LeBron James. Now, especially Larry did not take care of himself the way LeBron does now. So if you want to do all that, you got me. All I know is one game from my life, I want Larry Joe Bird taking my last shot. That guy's from French Lick, Indiana, because he was the almost the baddest man. He was right there, just a tick behind Michael Jeffrey Jordan when it came to clutch shooting, game on the line. Look, I might take Larry Bird as a hair even over Michael. But the Larry Bird could even hit the clutch three. Michael was Michael with more go for two. Now, of course, in a moment where you needed it three, Michael could pull up for three, and he has some three-point shots that he hit that were big. But Larry Bird's range was, Larry Bird had had 35-foot range, even in that era. Free throw, free jump shot, whatever it was, I'll take Larry Bird any day or any night over, especially LeBron James. What game you got to play? And Larry had a great handle. Quiet his cap. He had a great handle, great behind-the-back dribble, could go between the legs, real sharp handle, and could pass equally well with the left or the right hand. What I'm saying is, this is it. Money on the line, any sort of outside shooting, or just creating a shot, I'll take Larry Bird over LeBron James, who, as we know, has run from the free-throw line his whole. We don't need that. Cash your questions. I haven't finished. It's my turn. Joy doesn't like what. Ask you one thing. I agree with Skip. Let's Skip finish. Any you had just say already. We already know where I know how you feel about. You may keep going because again, LeBron liability from the free-throw line. He's starting to plummet again back towards 67%. He's a knee, and he runs from the free-throw line. Even changed his routine again last night because he's getting desperate. Larry Bird was the best free-throw shooter in pro basketball four times, almost 90% for his career, 88. Yeah, he won it four times. Yeah, that's pretty good. Yeah. And what happened? The first three three-point shootouts at All-Star weekend, first three that they had, who dominated? Mary. That guy dominated. And who will ever forget in Michael's house in Chicago? Remember Larry Bird? Remember what he did? As he launched the last three, he held his finger up because he knew it was good. It was good. It was good. We know it was good. For shot at that table, I know he's a bad man. Skill, Joy, I don't know. People know this. Do you realize that LeBron James' three-point playoff average is high demand? Byrd, he shot, he shoots a high percentage from three-point line there, Larry Joe. Well, look, that's more indicative of the era than actual three-point shooting proficiency, Shannon, because we both know that with the game on the line, you don't want LeBron James shooting a three over Larry Bird. Me and you both know that. So really, all that does is prove how inflated many of the three-point shooting numbers are today because the players practice the shot. Born, the three-point shot is looked at as a primary offensive maneuver in today's game. Back in Larry Bird's era, but for the most part, the three-point shot was a shot that the coach only allowed one or two guys to even take that shot on the Celtics. Tina, but the only players who probably were allowed to even take the shot were Larry Bird and in Danny Ainge and maybe Dennis Johnson or Jerry Sheet, and or Jerry See Sting, if they were open. But the three-point shot was just not a primary shot in that era. So you cannot always just look at percentage points to determine who was a better shooter. The players coming up today are trained to take three-point shot as a primary offensive weapon. If you want to start going second level about who made even George shook her head because she knows that that's just a silly attempt at a point by Shannon. Mike, come on. Do you really believe that LeBron James is a better three-point shooter than Larry Bird? No. So why even bring that up? Who made the shots to win games? I'll do it all day and all night. We don't have long enough to do this here. But you even mentioned defense. You said he can't even hold the candle on what your line was about Larry Bird. Do you realize Larry Bird four times, not once or twice, but four times, led the NBA in defensive win shares? No. Wow. That's that's impressive. Now, once is LeBron led the NBA in defense. Accommodate all decrease routine. The Larry Bird, this is creating havoc. He was on three. He made the second team, three time. Shannon, Skip should have had that stat. Whoever's in Skip's air should be looking up that information right now to help him out. Larry Bird made three All-Defensive teams. He was on the second team, but he was, he still made three. This is creating problems on defense. He rolled that way to say that LeBron Jeff. He played what you say either. He used to be deal. Larry Bird was deal. All go take the point guard. No, but he could disrupt. He went skill. LeBron James can guard one through five. You've seen it. And all I know is it, you say you love the playoffs. Do you know LeBron James increases his average come playoff time in points and assists? I thought that was, that's what you want to do. You want to feel guys. Okay, yeah. Well, the thing is this, whenever you see certain statistics like that where players increase their points, their rebound, off their assists, that's good. But you also have to, uh, you also have to have an understanding of what type of system are they running? Is their offensive system totally dependent on getting the ball to or running the plays through one player, or do you have a ball movement style of offense like the Boston Celtics ran throughout the 80s? Please understand, Larry Bird could bring the ball up. He could have ran the point, but they had Dennis Johnson. Larry Bird could have been a guy who demanded 25 shots a game, but he didn't do that because why? They had Kevin McHale, they had Robert Parish. So you really cannot compare Larry Bird's numbers to LeBron James's numbers because any team that LeBron is on, they're running to look, they're running the LeBron system. I've touched on this already. Larry Bird to me is much more similar to the, the type of player that Kevin Durant is on the Golden State Warriors right now than what LeBron James is currently with the Cleveland Cavaliers. He increases. Any time you start critiquing, you say this is this, people make it seem like there's nothing to poopoo of our last leg. Larry Bird, he was special. Like I said, he was like he was LeBron before LeBron. Just left less at late. Hmm. I don't really see much. You know, I don't see much kinship in their style of play. I mean, I think I understand what Shannon's is alluding to, that Bird was dominant at the small forward in his era, like LeBron is dominant at the small forward in this current era. But when I think about LeBron before LeBron, I think of guys like Grant Hill. I think of guys like a Scottie Pippen in that little intermediary period where Jordan was gone. That's where I see the, the precursor to LeBron James. I don't see the precursor to LeBron with Larry Bird, other than, other than if you're talking about overall dominance. Kareem, he says one man. What if your name, you weren't born the glorious James in Akron, Ohio is December 30th, 1984? He ain't talking about you. Well, that's not really what Oscar said. As we've already seen on this, on the video that I did in regards to that legend roundtable, what Oscar actually said was that he would put LeBron anywhere from 5 to 2. He didn't say who with number 1 is. Jenna is assuming that he has Kareem at number 1, just as I did. But you never know. Oscar may have somebody else's number 1. He never seen. He never explicitly stated who he has as his number 1. [ __ ] no one asking me. He may have himself at number 1. Well, we know why Isaiah Thomas said that. Nothing against it. Nothing against that brother, but I mean, come on. I don't take anything that Isaiah Thomas had to say about the LeBron James, Michael Jordan comparison seriously. Brah. Non-defense. Maybe Ostriches should have said it's Kareem, then it's Russell Westbrook. Thank you, sir. Touche. You do realize that for the first five years of his NBA career, Oscar Robertson averaged a triple-double? You do realize that Skipper has a poor car? Didn't you realize they had like 20 more possessions a game back? This is a lower birth skill. Very relevant point brought up by Skill. Was Shannon could not refute one thing. I will say about Oscar Robertson, even though he did average a triple-double in an era where they were, where there were more possessions, Oscar Robertson was still extremely proficient. If you look over his lifetime shooting percentage, he shot over 48% for his career. So he wasn't something out there shot-jacking like Russell Westbrook. He was making the right decisions on the court. But there were more rebounds to be had because they were, there were more possessions. But if it was that easy, then everybody would've been doing it. Only he was doing it. Just like today, only Westbrook is really doing it. No guys like James Harden, they flirt with it. LeBron flirts with it, but only Westbrook is really doing it. So they deserve credit from that perspective. Well, Doc poked him in his eye. You know, Doc knocking him with the one-two because Larry Bird was was really talking crazy to him. He was time, it was time for you to retire. I'll, I'll burn at school like 40 some of my points on Dr. J, and Dr. J only had like six points. And Larry Bird kept him, 42 to 6. 42 to 6, man. It's time for you to hang it up. And they had a little scrum where they cut their arms, kind of got wrapped up, and Dr. J kind of nudged him a little bit, and Larry Bird, of course, followed up trying to antagonize him even more, and Dr. J wasn't having it. Now, in the aftermath of that fight, Larry Bird really wasn't upset about the fight. He was upset because none of his teammates jumped in for him like Dr. J's teammates jumped in for him. But I think the reason why Larry Bird's teammates didn't jump in for him was because even they had so such a high regard and respect for Julius Erving that to see him act like that, to see Dr. J lose his cool like that, I think even they thought that Larry Bird wasn't wrong. But Larry Bird was a fierce and cutthroat competitor, and he was not trying to have any friends on the basketball court. It was nothing personal, but that's what, that's the takeaway that Larry Bird had from that altercation, that his teammates did not jump into a system like Dr. J's teammates jumped in because, I mean, if you watch that scrum, Charles Barkley jumped in, Moses Malone jumped in, everybody, everybody was holding Larry. Well, I was getting caught. Wow, he couldn't even get his [ __ ] off because his teammate wouldn't help, and he was getting, he was gonna wrap it up. I think Charles Barkley had him wrapped up. The opponents are all getting dressed. Me said, which one of you? You know what? I'm gonna fake you right here. You know, Larry Bird was the greatest trash talker of a really rough, tough era. Oh, yeah. He would tell you about it, and then he would, because you didn't normally see a guy him, you know, like we call him. Well, Larry Bird is on record as stating that the reason, the reason why he talks so much trash and he developed his style of of of trash talk on the court from pickup games that he would have with with the hotel staff and an all-black hotel staff at a hotel in Indiana. He would play pickup with his friends or he would practice after school, and then he would go to the hotel and play on a blacktop with the all-black staff at a certain hotel in Indiana, and that's what he developed a lot of his style of play as well as his affinity for trash talk and mental warfare on the court. That one on the left, that's in the cool slot on my rifle. Let him. If you look at faith, oh yeah. Well, he's in a two slot on Mount Rushmore. If there's more than one Rushmore, because the first Mount Rushmore, LeBron ain't on it. The first Mount Rushmore is Michael, Russell, Kareem, and Magic. And that second Mount Rushmore, he's the second head on it. But the first was Larry Bird. But anyway, this is a great conversation, great debate between Larry Bird and LeBron James. If LeBron James wants to transcend the Larry Bird comparisons, in my view, in my view, he has to win another championship. If he does, then he's right there with Larry. It's just interesting that people try to add points for LeBron James due to his participation in the finals. Well, that's the case, then Jerry West should be in the top 10 all-time because Jerry West played like nine finals, the only one one. No, we did. When you started talking about all-time greats, we have to talk about victories, not participation. So we know that Larry Bird, he won three championships. He played in the era in the early 80s where they had to battle with Philadelphia. And as I've already touched on, Dr. J was beating the Celtics early on. People don't really bring that up. He'd love to talk about how Jordan never got to the finals until, you know, until the Pistons got old, supposedly. Even though when you look at all those players on the Pistons, they were all in their late 20s. Isiah Thomas, I think, was the oldest at like 30 years old. But Bird went through the same thing with Philadelphia. Detroit went through the same thing with Boston. That's that's the cycle. But anyway, peace.