Transcription
Foreign, you're his wife, and you are digging a hole in your backyard and burying yourself in it so that you don't have to face reality that your husband sucks.
[Music]
What's up? This is John with The Dr. John Deloney Show, the greatest parenting and marriage and mental health podcast ever, ever, ever. And you found us. Whether a friend sent you this link, or you were searching for something on the internet, or you just stumbled across us on YouTube, or you just woke up one morning and the cosmos said, "You should look up this quasi-clown who has a podcast about mental health and marriage." However you found us, you did. I'm so glad that you were here. If you want to be on the show, give me a call at 1-844-693-3291 or go to JohnDeloney.com. Ask, sorry for Sarah, the editor, you got to cut all this stuff out because I don't know how to do radio or podcasts. That's my new tune. All right, let's go to Linda in Kansas City. What's up, Linda?
Hi, how are you?
I'm so good. How are you?
I'm doing fine, thanks. It's, I'm, I'm an honor to talk to you, sir. Thanks for taking my call.
I'm super honored to talk to you. And for those of you who don't know, who wouldn't know, um, I hung up on Linda. I had a screwy intro. We have to edit out that you'll never hear. But Linda, you heard it. Also, I'm glad you're sticking around with us.
Well, thanks. I'm gonna figure out how this thing works at some point. Good grief.
All right, so what's up? Um, okay, so I have a question. Um, I'm doing a lot of research. I just kind of need an answer. Is sexting cheating? That's kind of my big question.
And so, although, listen, listen. You've, you heard the show before? Have you been, I mean, have you listened to the show before?
Yeah, a lot.
Okay, so you'll understand what I say. A lot. It's rare that somebody just walks up and puts a ball right on the tee for me, or, or just throws an underhand pitch. And so, on behalf of all of humanity, and especially me, thank you. Thank you.
So, explain this. Explain your question a little bit more.
Okay, so my husband and I have been married for seven years. We have four kids, six, four, three, and almost two.
Oh, good God almighty.
Okay, so you live in a blender. Um, and a couple of months ago, I was on my husband's phone, working for an email confirmation for Netflix or Audible or something like that. And the first text message that I saw was, "Good morning, baby." I'm like, that's a little weird. So I looked a little bit in his phone, a little bit more, and I saw some flirty pictures and some sorority texts. And still, I thought, that's a little weird. So I checked Snapchat and some other social media, and there were naked pictures of nine other women. It's really weird. That's not normal, right?
So I brought it up into our counseling session because we are in therapy. And he admitted to sexting three women over the last two years. I was, you know, absolutely devastated. And when I tried to talk to him outside of counseling, he got really upset and really offended that I used the word "affair." And he says he didn't cheat because there was no actually, he had never had actually had sex with anyone else. Uh, but he has hung out with several of them in person before and after the sexting, cheated in a group setting, and, and one-on-one with a couple of them. So, is, is sexting cheating? Is this, is it worse when the women aren't strangers? Um, are these affairs? Or am I just blowing this all out of proportion?
I think you're crazy, Linda. I don't think you have anything to worry about. Like, before I answer this, are, are you, I'm asking this. I have, I'm, I have a smile on my face, but I'm not, I'm not being a jerk, okay?
Okay.
Like, ask yourself this question. Pretend that one of your girlfriends calls you and was like, "Hey, I need to go get a coffee." And she had snuck, she had taken her husband's phone, and it was full of these conversations with other women, naked photos of other women, uh, confirmation that he was hanging out with them. What would your answer to her be?
Alex, absolutely. One, one percent. This is cheating.
No. If it's, and this, I mean, this is gaslight. I mean, the gaslights are burning so bright here because you are the one walking around feeling like you're crazy. But then I think, like, who am I to say who he can and can't text? Who am I to say who he can't? You're his wife. Wife. That's why. And when I married my wife, I invited her in to have a say into my life forever. That's what marriage is. Now, even if we've been in survival mode for the last five years with babies and toddlers, and I'm not as, I'm not as pretty as or as thin as I used to be. Is it okay for him to get visual stimulation from sexting in strip clubs? Or again, is that still cheating? Linda, what happened with you? Why do you think so little of yourself?
It's been a rough couple of years.
Yeah, but I mean, where, where is this coming from? You're the mother of four incredible kids. This is, I mean, I, I don't even, I, I'm, you've listened to the show. I'm speechless. I don't have words. This isn't about, "Well, I don't look how I used to." You have four children under six and under. This is the moment that a husband steps up and rallies around his wife. And, and through the, the crucible, through the, uh, challenge of having four little ones, you become more unified than ever. And you got to figure out how to do a completely new life because life before four kids was chaotic. And y'all could just have sex whenever, and you could leave clothes all over the house, and your bras hanging from a ceiling fan, and your husband doesn't know his pants. Or that was that life. And it was awesome. And now you got a bunch of children. And you could still have that life, but you got to plan it, right? And it's got to be, it's just a totally different way of being. This isn't for you to be like, "Well, that was fun for that 18 months before we started having kids, and now I'm just ugly and not worth being loved, and I should high-five him as he heads out to hook up with these women." And by the way, a thousand percent, he's lying to you. Of course, he's hooked up with them. That's insane. It's madness.
Hooked up as a [ __ ]? Like, yes, okay, yes.
I mean, I, I, I mean, I can't imagine a scenario. And there's some anonymity, if you will, to strip clubs or some anonymity to pornography. That's a whole other conversation. Okay? This is people he's in relationship with. He hangs out with them. He has dates with them. When a, when someone goes out one-on-one with somebody that they've exchanged naked photos with, that's called a date. Okay? He's actively dating women. That's not you. And I, like, I don't say I'm defending him, but it sounds like you've given him permission.
Well, when you put it like that, kind of. Yeah.
But he has, he said he's, he's cut off all contact with three of the nine. And so, I mean, Linda, Linda, Linda. Listen, you are getting the world. You're allowing. If you want a husband who is about integrity and fidelity, then that's the world that, um, I wish I had a better word for it. That's the world that's the world you demand. That's the world you say, "I'm, I'm worth." And if you want a husband that's got nine girlfriends on the side, then knock your lights out. But you might as well go ahead and file for divorce now. Just call it because you're going to torture yourself at the altar. If I'm not pretty enough, or I'm not good enough, or I used to be, but now I'm not. And you're worth so much more than that. And by the way, your kids are watching this. They're absorbing this. This is what marriage and love looks like. This is what commitment and "I'll be with you till the end of time through sickness and health." They're absorbing this. "Oh, sweet. When she gets, when she gains weight, you go get some on the side. When you gain weight, you have to let them go because you're no longer worthy of integrity and fidelity." Go ahead. I'm sorry I cut you off. Go ahead.
Is it reasonable for me to expect to talk about this outside of our weekly therapy sessions?
I mean, the fact that you're asking this question tells me this relationship's so over. Yes, you can talk about this anytime, for it, and in any place. And I, I mean, why would you ask that question?
Are you safe? Is he abusive?
No, he just has like a lot of anxiety when he talks about it.
All anxiety is is an alarm. And of course, the alarms are going off because he's caught. He's busted. And he's got a pretty sweet deal right now. He's got a live-in nanny for his four kids, and he's got nine girlfriends on the side. And so anytime that little world gets threatened, of course, his anxiety alarms are going to go off. But, "I can't talk about it. It makes me anxious." Shut up. Get over yourself. That's bullcrap. And I've got anxiety. I'm clinically diagnosed, so I can say it's bullcrap.
You're all wrapped up like a Christmas tree with the gaslights, my sister. I don't think you are able to. And I don't, it's, I understand. Okay? I don't think you are in a place where you can wrap your head around the reality of your, of your marriage and the situation you find yourself in. And I don't know who told you that you had so little value, but they lied to you, and they were wrong. You are worth so much more. And by the way, I'd be saying this if he was sitting on the phone. I'd be saying this if he was sitting right here at this desk. The way he's treating you is disgusting. It's unbelievable. And I'm sorry. When I say it, do you, do you believe it, or do you think I'm crazy?
And it makes, it makes me feel a lot better than not going crazy. I'll make, someone said that to me in a while.
What are you gonna do? What does your counselor say, for God's sakes?
Um, we haven't really addressed if it's cheating or not cheating quite yet.
Hey, listen. You need to find a new therapist. And I, and I'm, I, I'm saying that directly. And I, I would say that the therapist who's sitting right here, it's cruel. That's the, the old guard of therapy is you just sit there and you play referee while two people kind of say their thing, and it kind of comes out. And what all of the emergent literature suggests is that's cruel because you watch one person drown somebody in a session. And the new, the new way to do it, my buddy calls it wave three of therapy, is people were figuring out how human beings work, right? Which is really just a laughable way of like, we're finally being, um, wise. Is you take sides. You call it out. I'm gonna stop you right there, sir. You're having a sexual relationship with nine different people, and you're married to her. See what I'm saying? I, I'm sorry that your counselor has just let this go on. That's nonsense. Absolute nonsense. So, sexting is a sexual relationship. And just unequivocally, never for a second doubt that. As long as you live, as much as I'm sitting here wearing a black shirt with buttons on it, sexting somebody is engaging in a sexual relationship. Period. There is no discussion. There is, that's new?
It can't be news to you, Linda.
No, it's not. I just, and rose-colored glasses on. And so I just want to see like, it's not really, it's not really cheating. It's not really. Because there's a lot online. There's four little kids on the line. Yes. And you are digging a hole in your backyard and burying yourself in it so that you don't have to face reality that your husband sucks.
Fair. Yeah, fair. I'm sorry, man. I'm, I'm, I'm heartbroken for you. I can't, I can't wrap my head around how it got here. I would recommend with all of my being that you go see a counselor on your own.
Because you are entering into, you would be entering into marriage therapy. It's such a distorted power differential.
You think so little of yourself that it's, you have been told probably for most of your life that you have so little value, or your only value is in a few things. And then we had kids. And so they're gone for the time being. And so, la dee da. And it's, it's gonna, it's, it's kind of like a, um, uh, extension cord trying to go into a plug in the wall. The plug in the wall is so messed up that we're gonna have to, we're gonna have to go to an electrician and have them pull it out and help rewire this thing. Because you have to be able to look in the mirror and say, "I'm a person worthy of being loved." And I'm a person worthy of, there's chaos in my home, and there's gonna be for a while. How can we have romance, romance, and sexual intimacy, and fun, and laughter, and flirtation, all that? How can we create that world inside of the chaos of diapers and clothes everywhere and random socks and some kid just peeing all over the place? Like, how do we do that inside of that? And that is what strong marriages do. Is they see the challenge ahead, and they choose to enter into it. They lock arms even tighter. And there is chaos and bumps and bruises along the way. Because we keep remembering back to the way it was. That season's over. Gotta build a new, a new thing moving forward.
[Music]
But my big, my bigger concern here, [Music] is you just found through your husband's phone with pictures of nine different women he's meeting with, and who are sending him naked pictures, and who he's having dates with, and you think something's wrong with you. Hear me say this: You're worth more than this. [Music] If I can do anything to help you along the way, I'll be here. Let me know. We'll be right back.
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All right, uh, we're back. Hey, during the break, I, that last call, the whole booth back there, everyone's just speechless except for all the yelling they were doing. And Joe, the engineer, had a sound engineer had a great question that I wish I had asked. Man, sometimes I'm driving home and I think, "I should ask this, and I should have asked this question to Linda." What would your husband say if he were to grab your phone and you were sending and receiving nude photos to nine different men? Would he be like, "Cool, that's awesome. You should go hang out with them"? Already loses mine because his property doesn't, doesn't do that. If you ever feel in, like, um, you think you're not crazy, but the person you're in a relationship with is making you feel crazy, just ask yourself, "What would they do if the tables were turned? The exact same thing was happening, but it was you that was doing it, not them." And that's usually a good answer that you're not crazy.
All right, let's go. I'm just gonna. Kyle, you're gonna pick me back up, brother. Let's go to Kyle in Philadelphia, where you were born and raised, and the playground is where you spent most of your days. What's up, dude?
How you doing?
Good. Hey, I need you. I need you to, I need you to rescue me here.
What's up?
Um, I guess I just had a question. Um, where, uh, if you, hey, if you were to just be like, "Listen, I've been sexting a lot, and I just want to know if that's cheating." That would be incredible. But hopefully, that's not what you're asking.
What's up?
That's not me. Um, my question is, so I'm a 27-year-old man. I'm still trying to figure out, you know, my life together, just, you know, with career and stuff. But I ended up meeting a girl. And as far as my past relationship, she's a walking green flag. Like, everything about her is just great.
The issue that I'm having, the walking green flag, it's a good way to put it. Um, and she's great. She's super, super cool, super funny, super cute. Like, everything is just, everything's great. But the issue is that, uh, she has a kid. And that's kind of where I wanted to speak with you about it because I need some help. I need some advice here.
What disqualifies an amazing woman from being amazing just because she has a child? Nothing. My thing is that that's why I kind of want to mention, like I said, I'm 27. I'm still trying to figure out my life. Um, and that's where it's like, you know, that's something that it's just, I don't picture. Get to it. You are circling the wagons, homie. Just get to it. And here's the deal. When you say it out loud, you know you're gonna sound bad. Just say it anyway. Let's get to it.
I just think I'm not ready for.
Okay, break up with it right now. Break up with her right now. Um, break up with it right now because this amazing woman doesn't come without her kid. In fact, she'd be a terrible human being if she ditched her kid for you. And you don't want to be a dad? Cool. She's not the one for you right now. Have enough decency and enough respect for you, for her, for that sweet little kid of hers to call it and to have the integrity to say, "Everything about you, I love. I am not ready to be a dad."
Yeah, look at that. That's the thing. It's like, I'm not, I'm not a hundred percent against it. And that's kind of. You have to be a thousand percent for it. You can't partly be in, in a parenting role. I get that. It's all, all, all in. And I've got a buddy. I was, I was out on a hunt trip the other day with a buddy in the middle of the, the frozen tundra up north, who married somebody, adopted, um, uh, her son right away. And years later, their relationship's amazing. He's an amazing dad. He, he's always been with, with, I mean, he's always been, um, married to her and dad. That's how they start the relationship. And it's awesome. And, and it's hard. It had some complexities. There's some challenges along the way, no question about it. But you want both. You want her. You want a fantasy version of her, and that person isn't real. And when we project fantasies onto other people, it ends in ash and a lot of broken hearts. And this time, there's a kid. Don't do that.
And that's kind of why I wanted to speak with you about it because I kind of wanted, like you said, like it's hard. Like I kind of wanted to, I have no idea what it would be like because, like, we're still very new. Like, we're not even dating yet. Like, we've just been going out on dates. But, you know, we've been clicking very hard where, um, we've been seeing each other a lot. And she's super, like, understanding. She's like, she tells me at any point if it gets too much with, like, her custody schedule or anything like that, like, she will be willing to, she understands if I can't do it. Like I said to you, like, I'm not a hundred percent against it. I just, like, I have never seen myself in this position before. So I kind of want to see, like, what is the, what I am signing myself up for if I do do this because, like, I obviously have no idea.
I don't think any parent who has kids or adopts kids fully knows what they're signing up for until they're all in. Because if we did, we'd probably, there'd be moments when we we opted out. That's that's that's the deal, right? That's the deal. And so again, you, you won't have a tryout period. You want to practice. And that's not fair to her, and it's not fair to that kid. I think, I, 100%, I mean, I get that you, this is not how you drew it up, right? You were gonna meet somebody, and then you're gonna fall in love, and you're gonna be married for seven or eight years, then you might have a kid. Or what? I, I get that. Or I'm never gonna have a kid. I have no interest in a kid. That totally makes sense. That's the same as I fell in love with somebody and we ended up moving into Nebraska. I'd never had that plan. I thought we're gonna live in New York City for that. That life happens that way. That's okay. Where it's not okay is when you fully understand, "Oh, I didn't expect this, and here it is, and I only want part of this." Then you got to let the rest go. You gotta let all of it go, or you gotta say, "I'm a hundred percent in."
And I get that. What'd you think I was gonna say? Because you don't like my answer. What'd you think I was gonna say?
Yeah, I don't, I don't, I don't have a problem with your answer. It's because I, like I said, I, and I'm 27, so all my friends are the same age as me, and none of them have ever dealt with this. So it's like, when I talk to somebody about it, they give me the, you know, "What are your friends telling you?"
Um, well, my closest friends, like, "Oh, I can so see you as a stepdad." Like, they make a joke out of it. But, um, obviously, it's a big challenge. And they all say they couldn't do it. With me, like I said, I'm not against it. I'm not a hundred percent against it. Like, I'm not. I have not. When we first started, it was a, it was a fling. We both like had it. We talked to each other. We both were just like, "We are not looking for anything serious." But we immediately clicked. And so I knew from the start that she had a kid.
And you hooked up with her anyway. And here you are.
Yes. Yes. So that. And so either you're gonna have to break somebody's heart, or you're gonna have to choose to grow up. Either way, you've got a path that you weren't expecting. Absolutely. Let me say, if you choose to get serious with her, you have to understand that her kid will come first. The kid has to come first. And you've got to know that.
Yeah, I 100 know that. And you've got. And not only know that, but there has to be, not only okay with you, that's got to be awesome because that's the way it should be, right?
Right.
I watched plenty of videos, lots of read articles. Like, I, I'm fully understanding of that part. Absolutely. And you're gonna have to make peace with her ex. Whether that was a fling or they were married before, whatever. Because that dude's gonna be part of your life forever. Yeah, just is. And I've seen it done incredibly well. Like, dads, like, like go out and check in with each other. "What are you seeing with our kid?" Like, basically, dads are like, "Hey, man, we got two sets of eyes on this on this kid. This kid's gonna get double love from us." And I've seen it handled so immaturely that you would think there were middle schoolers involved. They're so dumb. "It's my toys. I'm taking my trucks and going home." It's just so lame. So if you're in, call the dude and ask him out for dinner and say, "I'm gonna be a part of this woman's life. I love this woman. I want to honor your kid till the end of time. Tell me what you're seeing. Tell me about your boy. Tell me about what you want to see." Like, invite him in. And if he chooses to act like a middle schooler, you can't think about it. But at least you will take the high road. And see, like, I'm trying to paint a picture for you, dude. I, I would not discount a single mom for anything. Okay? Like, there's nothing that disqualifies her from being amazing and awesome. The question is, do you want to be a dad right now? And if you don't, walk away, man. And if you do, be all, all in.
All right. Yeah, that makes sense. And quit asking your buddies, dude. They don't, they don't know, man.
That's why I wanted to speak with you because I was like, somebody that I actually, like, I listen to you all the time, so I was like, "I trust, I trust your opinion enough." But I could just give you a call.
I appreciate that. I appreciate that. I, man, I, I wish you the best for whatever. And so, number one, make sure you do this. Don't, don't read the YouTube comments on this because you're gonna get all kinds of people throwing grenades and all. So just don't do that. The second is, I'm not gonna fault you for not wanting to be a dad at 27. Cool. Where I will fault you is if you drag this poor woman through it because y'all keep hooking up, or if you kind of like hanging out with her, but you don't see a future to for it, but in some shape, form, or fashion, you lead her to believe that there is a future. That's just cruel, man. Don't do that. Don't do that. And that's not just single women. That's with anyone. And women, that's with anybody you're romantically attracted to. Just don't do that. Just don't do that.
[Music]
But man, she sounds awesome. She's a walking green flag. I've never heard that. That sounds like he's got some kind of illness, but I'm gonna trust you that that means it's awesome. Um, I don't know, man. Got a hard decision to make. Just be a person of character, integrity, when you make it. We'll be right back.
Hey, good folks. John Deloney here. I feel like I fell through a glitch in the Matrix. This is my job. I get to have this show, do this show, walk alongside each one of you as a career. This is what I do, and I have a blast doing it. And me and the team, we're so thankful for all of you for being a part of our show. Whether you're one of the original 17, or you're one of the millions that's come since then, we are so grateful for you. And we want to put together the best possible show that we can. So if you're one of the originals, or if you're brand new, we want your feedback. Tell us what you love about the show, what you hate about the show, what you'd like to see more of, what you'd like to hear more of, and what you want us to never do again. You can email us at askjohn@ramseysolutions.com. That's askjohn@ramseysolutions.com with your feedback. Thank you for being such an important part of the show. Rock on.
All right, we are back. Let's go to Lacey in Buffalo, New York. What's up, Lacy?
Don, thanks for taking my call.
Of course. What's happening?
Um, okay, so I, I wrote down a couple thoughts, so then I'll follow up with my question, if that's okay.
Very cool. Absolutely.
Okay, so my call today is regarding my, um, little sister-in-law. We love her very, very much. But I recently found out that she's been dabbling in cocaine. Um, and obviously, this is very concerning to us. But equally concerning is a pattern of behavior that we've witnessed over the past few years with her. She's only 21, but since she was around 16, we've seen a lot of deception in all of her relationships, not just with the family. And on the outside, right now, it seems like she's doing okay. She's got a good job working in finance, she's got her own place, she's got a boyfriend. She's pretty responsible. But then we learn about things that she's lying to us or lying to others about. And, um, I guess a terrifying thing to us is that the lies seem to get bigger, and nothing is really slowing her down. And sadly, I'm afraid that if we talk to her about, you know, the cocaine usage, that she'll just lie and deny that she's doing it. Sure.
So my question is, do we still try to talk to her? And if so, what can we say?
This one's hard. And unfortunately, because of my previous career, I'm just, man, I had this conversation a lot. It's hard. Yeah.
How did you guys find out she's doing coke?
A co-worker who's also a friend of mine told me.
Gotcha. What happened when she was 16? Was there stuff that went on in the family? Did she have some abuse? Did she get with, have a boyfriend that got, like, what, what happened there?
Five kids. And, um, um, she got wrapped up with a boyfriend when she was 16. And that's, I think, when we started noticing some of the destruction. She had two phones, one that she would use to communicate with him, and he was, um, much older than her.
Okay. He sounds like he's older.
Yeah, yeah. And that's kind of how it all started. And then eventually, she did move out when she was 18. Um, kind of surprised everybody, surprised and not surprised. We kind of knew it was coming.
How old was this guy?
He was like 22.
Yeah. So I want to contextualize this for everybody, okay? So when it comes to actually, let me, let me back up a little bit, okay? Um, I, s, I, because of my experience working with young people, and because of people that I'm in relationship with that I love, that I would consider close to me, I do not screw around with cocaine. Okay? It's, it's, um, that said, I've, I know multiple people who say they only do it a couple times a year, like, just recreationally. And so I can't deny that. I can't pretend that's not true. That's what they say. I can't. And I know that we're, we're the country's being ravaged by an opioid epidemic. But I've seen cocaine and its younger, cheaper sister, meth. I've seen it just destroy. Right? It just rages fire. Now, here's the catch. What I learned over the years was instead of asking somebody, "Why in the world are you using cocaine? Why in the world are you drinking? The cover-up? Why in the world are you Phil partying? Where in the world are you? Whatever." I quit asking that question. And I started asking the question, "What happened in your life that made being you so painful that you had to really go after some heavy stuff to cover it up?"
Yeah. And she could have had a very loving home, but she was raped and sexually abused from the time she was 16 to 18 years old by a 22-year-old man.
Yeah. So you see what I'm saying?
Yes. And I would definitely agree with you, except, um, I don't, I mean, it was rape, of course, but she was very much a participant in all of that at the same time.
Oh, Lacey. I, I, I definitely am not like, absolutely, if I'm standing up for her, but yes, she was a kid. And so I would challenge the notion with all of my heart that she's got a quote unquote, "really loving family." Because a really loving family would have gone to war to keep their daughter from being raped. Does that make sense?
Yup. Yup.
Police were involved.
Okay. Okay. And, um, it was her choice. She did, she did not want any. She wanted to just brush it under the rug. And so, I mean, that's, I guess, in he had a, there was like a restraining order put out against him. But, and then she wanted to just move on with her life. So that's, I think, what everybody just did because she was a child.
Well, and if.
No, that's messy.
There can't be any lingering thought in your mind, in your husband's mind, in the family's mind, that, "Well, she was asking for it, and she really wanted to go." No, we don't think that. That's what you said.
Yeah, like she was all in. You know what I mean? Yeah. I mean, we've, this was over a couple years. And when we found out she was 18, um, and at that time, she was like, "I'm moving out. I'm making my own decisions. What's in the past is in the past, you know?" So, I mean, and she was like, "This is, this is my, the love of my life." You know? So that's what I say when, when she was all in.
You know, so I think the, but I mean, since then, like, they've split up. She's been with other men, of course. Yeah. I mean, and I just feel like nothing. I, I don't know what to tell her, what to say that we can try to just, um, and even when we try to have relationships, I mean, we see her all the time. She's over her family dinners, you know, she loves coming around. But I just feel like it's very surface-b because even when we just ask her simple things like, "Oh, what'd you do this weekend?" It's a lie. I mean, there's, I can't, I feel like we can't have connection with her because just even the little things are just, we find out later, "Oh, that wasn't really entirely true."
And something in her body says, "None of y'all are safe. None of y'all are trustworthy. None of you will still love me if you really knew." Yeah. And so I've got to escape with drugs. I've got to keep everybody at arm's length with dishonesty, even as wild as it gets. Because from 16 to 18, these two people who said they love me, love me, love me, love me, had no idea that I was being abused. Nobody came and got me. And that sounds unfair. And it sounds, "How are we supposed to know? We had five other kids." And blah, blah, blah. Nobody came and got her. And she's gonna be chasing somebody to tell me that I'm worth being loved, that I've got value, because the two people who are supposed to come rescue me didn't show up. Yeah. And it's easy to be like, "Well, she keeps hooking up with so-and-so, and she keeps ending up with another man, another man." Her body is desperately seeking somebody to say, "I see all of you, and I love you." Yeah. And, um, the sucky thing about cocaine is it works. It makes you, it lights up your brain like a, like a Christmas tree, and you can work better and faster than people, and it works until it kills you. Yeah. Right? And so you are right on. If you sit down and try to have some Kumbaya conversation, it's not gonna go very well. Or some sort of after-school special conversation. Yeah, it's not gonna go well. Um, the conversation to be had is a private conversation, probably with her brother, probably with Mom and Dad, maybe with you. Somebody say, "I'm so, so sorry, and I love you, and I love you, and I love you, and you're always welcome here." More and more information is not going to solve this problem. It's not a data issue. It's a connectivity issue. And she is a young, beautiful soul, desperately searching for somebody to say, "You're enough." Yeah. Is this ringing true?
So, I mean, I don't know. That's hard. It's hard when we all find out, found out because at the time, it was just a whirlwind of, like, "What? We're just finding this out? She's moving out? You know, we're finding the second phone? We're finding all these things." And at the time, she didn't want to hear any of that, you know? She was just like, "I'm onto my new man. You know, I found this guy." And so I don't know.
Well, that's what a great, I had the opportunity. What a great rapist and a great child molester will do is make a child feel like they can't breathe without them. Yeah. And they get so intertwined with shame and purpose and worth and somebody exciting and new and sexy and with their own jaw, jaw, and car, whatever becomes so magnetic that just going home and sitting down for dinner with the family, I mean, like, it's so, it's like me getting mad at my daughter when I leave jelly beans everywhere. She's seven. Like, that's on me, right? You know what I mean? I expect her to want to eat jelly beans until she can't fit another jelly bean inside of her tiny little body. I expect that. It's up to me to say, "Hey, this isn't safe. This isn't healthy. This is gonna make you sick." That's my job. I'm dead. And so, yes, it's easy when you find an 18-year-old or a 19-year-old to say, "Oh, my gosh, you didn't follow our family rules. You deceived us. You lied to us. You had another phone. You've been sneaking out for years." I totally get that. Yeah. And that's the, that response is catastrophic. The response should be, "God help us. We missed it. And I'm so sorry. We should have been there for you, and we weren't." Understand that you got a second phone, that you did this, and that you can tell everybody in the world as a 16-year-old, you wanted this, and you wanted to do this, and blah, blah, blah. I don't, you don't get that vote when you're 16 because you're a child. We missed it, and I'm sorry. You're, please come home. Yeah. Does that make sense?
So the whole family is gonna have to be in on that.
That's not true. That's not true because there's going to be parents who cannot. They cannot take ownership in these kind of moments. They just can't. I've seen it too much. I've seen it my whole career. Parents who just can't internalize that they have any role to play in something like this. And brothers and sisters who say, "Hey, man, she made her choices." And people who look at her and say, "Dude, she was, she was a flirt. She was always dressing this way." And say stupid, hateful things like that. And the reality is, I always want to go back to that 16-year-old girl. They needed somebody to step in, and they didn't. So at some point, someone's got to step in now. And that might be you. That might be you. That might be you looking at her and saying, "Listen to me very carefully. I know that your parents should have stood, like, stepped in, and they didn't. We all should have stepped in. Yeah. And we didn't. And I'm sorry. That was wrong. Yeah. And I love you." Yeah.
No, I can definitely say that. Um, it may be a big brother too. Yeah. Yeah. Felt, I feel like I don't want to paint them in a bad light because they definitely were, I mean, it was a mix, 50/50 of, um, "Oh my gosh, what's going on?" And, "We love you, please don't do this." You know what I mean? So I definitely don't think that that conversation wasn't, it was had. But at that point, I think she was already kind of too far gone at that point to listen. But I'm hoping maybe now, um, now that he's out of the picture and, you know, some years of that, maybe instead of sit down and have that conversation, maybe instead of her of looking at her like she's too far gone, maybe looking at her like her body got the message loud and clear: no one was going to pay attention. Yeah. And so she went with the person that paid attention. Yeah. Yeah.
No, I mean, I didn't mean like too far gone like she's, you know, like I'm superior or any, any of that. I just meant she, she was very invested into that relationship. Absolutely. And I wouldn't think anything less. I wouldn't think anything less. I'm imagining myself as a 16-year-old, and if some beautiful 22-year-old woman had come and started showing interest in me and telling me that I was wonderful, right? I mean, it would be ludicrous for me not to be like, swooned by that. Yeah. So we have laws and people and adults and all that stuff. And so, I, I can't, I can't overstate.
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How big of a miss this was. And I can't overstate that not using the words sexual assault and rape, not using those words, is a disservice to what happened. And I can't overestimate how this her healing will not happen outside of relationship. And at some point, she's going to find them. [Music] My hope is that they come from a place that they are with people who love her and have her best interests, and not who are just interested in making sure the family looks good and not keeping up the big loving and we're all, everything's wonderful and all that kind of stuff. I hope it's from people who take a knee and say, "We missed it in our own house, and I'm sorry."
[Music]
Hey, Deloney here. One of the things I love about my job is answering the tough questions people have when they call into the show. Your stories are incredible, and each person's situation is unique. And for years, people from all over the world have been asking if I do private counseling or private coaching sessions for them or for their spouse. And as much as I'd love to, I can't realistically do one-on-one coaching sessions with every single person. It's just not possible. But that's exactly why I wrote my new book, "Own Your Past, Change Your Future." Within the pages of this book is exactly what I would say if you and I were sitting down together at a table, looking for the next right move for you to make in your relationships or to help you live a more whole and peaceful life. As you read through each section of this book, I will show you how to look and own the roads from your past and head to the new roads of a well life moving forward. Go to JohnDeloney.com to get your copy today. That's "Own Your Past, Change Your Future" at JohnDeloney.com.
All right, hey, we're back. Um, I didn't think I had to take a minute after that last call. That was hard. Um, the children in our lives can be, whether they're four or seven or sixteen, and I'll go as far as say 18, 21. I know they're quote unquote adults, but the kids in our lives need adults to love them and to step in on their behalf and to pay attention and to get involved. And when the time comes, go to war. And when you see your kid lying all the time, when you see your kid slipping into drug use, you see your kid running to other people for affirmation, before you blame the child, just ask yourself, "Behavior is a language. What are they trying to tell me? What are they missing here?" This isn't to shame parents or to blame parents or blah, blah, blah. But I am saying this: Parents, you gotta get involved. And for kids being abused, if your kid's being assaulted, your silence tells them all I need to know about their worth and value, or the fact that you don't even know what's going on. Get involved. And normally, we end every show with a song or song lyrics. And I know it didn't feel right today, but I had somebody write in one time, and it was doing a similar child abuse call, and I got upset and walked off set, and there was no song. The show just ended. This is, this is maybe a year or two ago. And he wrote in and said something poignant. He said, "Hey, um, when you don't do song lyrics at the end, it leaves me untethered as a listener. I just find myself in the car trying to put the pieces back together after some of these tough calls." And so I've never missed one since. So not as a disrespect to this young woman who is left to fend for herself as a 16-year-old, but as a sign of respect and honor for the listener. It is a hard show. It's a hard show. Um, today's song is by Grace Potter and the song is called "Release."
I know that I caused pain and I know that you can't let me go.
Crying in the midnight rain, waiting on a miracle.
I release you, though it's hard to say the words.
And I release you from holding onto the bridge I burned.
I release you from the darkness, from the love that we swore was true.
And I hope that someday the sun will shine again, and you'll release me too.
Even if I'm in your arms, even if you touch my skin.
I could never change my heart after being where it's been.
I release you from the darkness, from the love that we swore was true.
And I hope that someday the sun will shine again, and you'll release me too.
I love you guys. We'll see you soon.