Transcription
Ukrainian and Russian delegations are in Istanbul for peace talks. The real story, though, is this unprecedented and audacious drone attack by Ukraine on Russian airfields and bombers.
Ukraine attacked bases deep inside Russia, thousands of miles from the front lines, in what they're calling Operation Spider Web. Ukrainian officials said that dozens of Russian warplanes were destroyed. Let's get right to CNN chief international correspondent Nick Paton Walsh. This is quite a backdrop for these talks, which take place shortly. Nick.
Yeah, I mean, absolutely startling—the sophistication of this raid. One of these air bases hit was almost halfway across Siberia. The Ukrainian security service was able to use mobile wooden homes; essentially, the roofs of them seem to have opened up and allowed these clouds of drones, remotely piloted, to target some of Russia's most important long-range strategic bombers—41 damaged, according to Ukraine's security service. Air bases that must have thought they were basically far enough away to be impregnable. Ukraine is very keen to announce that all the people involved in this year-and-a-half-long operation have since left the country. And yet another sign of how Ukraine's able to use its outsize use of technology to inflict significant damage on Russia's enormous military—something which, frankly, Kiev has always felt would be impregnable but is increasingly showing its vulnerability over time.
What does this mean? We don't know exactly what damage it's going to do to the nightly horrors inflicted on Ukrainian civilians by these long-range bombers. Some of them, indeed, were old enough; they were still using propellers, but it's another sign Ukraine is able to sometimes upset the balance. And as you mentioned, to a remarkable backdrop for these talks in Istanbul, here's what Ukraine's President, Volodymyr Zelensky, at a NATO summit in Vilnius, had to say: "Europe, together with America, has better weapons than Russia. We also have stronger tactical solutions. Our Operation Spider Web yesterday proved that Russia must feel what its losses mean. That is what will push it toward diplomacy. And when Russia takes losses in this war, it's obvious to everyone that Ukraine is the one holding the line not just for itself, but for all of Europe." You could see in his arrival in Vilnius, Zelensky had a bit of a spring in his step. Frankly, a long, needed boost to Ukrainian morale, suffered so badly after that Oval Office blow-up with President Donald Trump.
Does this change Russia's thinking? Well, many felt these peace talks in Istanbul were another example of Moscow's slow rolling, a peace process that had very minimal interest in seeing it lead to a ceasefire. But it may make the Kremlin begin to wonder if surprises like this come along frequently enough, how long they can sustain this conflict, and maybe it will do practical damage to their war effort, too. John.
So a remarkable weekend—I should point out, a record number of drones launched by Russia over the weekend, and a startling number taken out by Ukraine's Electronic Warfare, too. So technology increasingly on Ukraine's side. Yeah, Ukraine is very much trying to increase the costs on Russia and what impact that could have on discussions going forward. Nick Paton Walsh for us. Thank you, Nick.
Let's get more now on these major developments. With us now is Admiral James Stavridis. He is a CNN senior military analyst and former NATO's Supreme Allied Commander. Also, CNN senior political commentator and former congressman Adam Kinzinger. He's also a former member of the House Armed Services and Foreign Affairs Committee and served in the Air National Guard. Good to see both of you. Thank you so much. Congressman, you first. Do you think this is a game changer or of some other significance that Ukraine could pull this off?
Yeah, this—I mean, look, this is a huge deal. This is—I would actually say this is right there with when Ukraine had their very successful counter-offensive. Keep in mind, we've recently had, you know, the United States say that Ukraine doesn't hold any cards. This is cards. This is a serious amount of cards, by the way—potentially taking out a third of Russia's bomber force is what what this could potentially be. It's like no other. And keep in mind, Ukraine is actually winning this war as a defending country. All you have to do to win is keep defending until the attacker runs out of combat power. At the beginning of the full-scale invasion, Russia occupied 30% of Ukraine. Today it's 18%. They've lost a million men in casualties in that process, and now potentially a third of their bomber force. This is a really big deal, potentially going into negotiations. And keep in mind, up until this point, Russia has been attacking indiscriminately civilian targets in Ukraine—all week, all month, and frankly, the entire war.
So, Admiral, what does this say about Ukraine's—is it heightened intelligence gathering or is it a new directive or strategy?
It's all the above, and I'll add a couple. It is a clever, clever tactic. What they did was put these drone phones, quad-copter drones into trucks. They got them deep inside Russia. A way to think about these strikes: This would be like launching from Washington, D.C., and attacking targets in Los Angeles. I mean, this is—Russia is a huge country, largest in the world. These strikes are at a distance exactly as—Congressman, and by the way, you looked out—is most important credential for this conversation. He's an Air Force pilot, so he really understands the air distance equation and how remarkable this is. So they put together that unmanned technology, the intelligence of the locations, and the military savvy to load it on trucks, get it across this vast country, launch it at scale and at distance. I think it's a remarkable strike. I'm Greek-American, so I've got to give you this: It's kind of the Trojan horse—it's these wooden crates. They got pushed into the country and suddenly sprouting forth from it are these warriors destroying all of these planes—none of them human beings. It's it's really quite a remarkable military feat.
So then, Congressman, clearly, Ukraine is likely preparing for some sort of retaliation. But at the same time, what does this kind of successful, you know, attack from their standpoint do to the morale for Ukrainian fighters?
This is huge for Ukrainian morale. This is devastating for Russian morale. Now keep in mind, in this process, you know, we're going to see—so Ukraine is going to see how Russia responds to this. They've seen how Russia does or does not—in this case, does not—defend their military bases. And they're going to adjust from that. There may be more—likely could be many more attacks like this—kind of on the perch ready to go in Russia. And now all of a sudden, Russia has had to go from defending its air bases and its military stuff basically within, whatever, 500 or 1000km of the front line to the entire amount of Russia. And keep in mind, they're already almost out of air defense as it is. They've had—they had to move almost all their air defenses to Moscow just to defend their parade. So this is a big deal. And for Americans, it's important to remember this: We have a choice. We can either help Ukraine defend itself. And if we do, we'll have a bit of a say in how Ukraine defends itself. If we don't, Ukraine's got to do what they can do. And again, it's important to keep in mind every one of these targets today was a legitimate, under the rule of war, legitimate target for Ukraine to strike. What you will see in the Russian response is an attack on schools, on hospitals, on civilian infrastructure, because that's what Russia does. Ukraine fights fear. Russia goes after civilians.
And then now, Admiral, all this taking place, you know, on the eve, you know, give or take a few days of, you know, this meeting that is supposed to be taking place in Turkey between Russia and Ukrainian representatives. How might this either change the dynamics, apply more pressure, or might it mean a complete retreat from even having talks like this, meaning Russia retreating?
I wouldn't be surprised to see the Russians put a freeze on things. On the other hand, more likely they'll try and kind of brazen their way through it and say, "We caught all the people who did this." There'll be a bunch of "round up the usual suspect" operations. Ukraine, by the way, was very careful to point out that everybody involved in this is already back in Ukraine. So anybody you arrest, Russia, is wrong. I believe that, frankly. And then secondly, again, the innovation on display here, I think is really what you have to focus on. And so I would say the talks probably freeze momentarily, then they'll move forward.
Hey, final thought for you as I watch this, as a former Supreme Allied Commander of NATO. People ask me a lot, you know, "Hey, do we really want to take Ukraine into the alliance?" You know, when this war is over, this is going to be a country manufacturing 2 million, maybe 3 million drones a year. They'll have the most highly blooded, motivated military force on the continent. Do we want them on Team NATO? Man, I do.
A congressman, as the admiral was saying, you know, this really is a display of innovation, too, in terms of this strategy. How do you think that will land with President Trump, who, you know, has not been completely supportive of Ukraine, if you want to put it that way, you know. And he has claimed, however, he was disappointed though in the behavior of Putin. But how might this potentially influence a more definitive point of view coming from the president?
Well, let me just say I couldn't have said it better than what the admiral said about the importance of Ukraine and how they would be an asset to NATO. Look, what does this mean for President Trump? You know, look, I don't know. He—again, he has yet to really attack Putin. I would not be surprised—I would be saddened, but I would not be surprised if he somehow blamed Zelensky for the stalling of the negotiations in this case. I hope—again, I hope he doesn't do it, because keep in mind, this is the crazy thing: This is a massive attack, right? Again, against legitimate military targets. All week leading up to today, Russia has been sending drones and ballistic missiles into Ukraine after civilian targets. But for some reason, they never get blamed for stalling negotiations. So my hope is the administration and President Trump, you know, finally kind of turns the corner here and at least gets out of Ukraine's way and allows Ukraine and Europe to defend themselves.