We're seeing a technology advance quicker than like anything we've ever seen before. And if you learn how to be that orchestrator who says like, "Okay, I'm going to, you know, have this software developed over here." I think those are the going to be the winners. The ones that know how to really really successfully prompt these tools to get them to do what they want. Be that manager, that conductor who's sending off their, you know, AI agents to go and do the various aspects. I think those are going to be the the real long-term winners.

Okay, so today's guest is Matt Wolf. And before we dive in, let me tell you what inspired this episode. A few weeks ago, I'm at a coffee shop and I strike up a conversation with this guy sitting next to me. He's furiously typing away on his laptop and it turns out that he's actually a consultant who helps companies use AI in their business operations.

As we're talking, he tells me that people are making two big mistakes with AI right now. Either they're completely ignoring it because it feels overwhelming. They've heard all of the updates, the new tools, the new jargon, and they think this is just too much. This isn't for me. That's one camp. The other camp is wildly overestimating what AI can do. They've fallen into that hype trap that there are AI agents that can magically run your business and make you rich while you sleep. He tells me that neither side is correct and really where you want to be is somewhere in the middle.

So, if you're sitting at home and you're curious about AI, but you honestly feel overwhelmed by everything that's happening, we created this conversation for you because Matt does such a good job at keeping it simple and cutting through the noise. And so in this conversation, he's sharing his screen the entire time and covers examples and real use cases for how you can use just three AI tools to make your business and your life 10 times more productive and profitable. And a little warning before we get into it, this episode will cause a shift. I'm just going to tell you that now. It will inspire new ideas and ways of working. For me, I've literally changed entire workflows in my business based on what Matt showed me in this conversation, especially when it comes to Perplexity Labs. That part of the video blew my mind.

Anyway, let's get into the conversation with Matt Wolf. You're listening to the Callum Johnson show. In my mind, you're like the AI reporter on YouTube. Like that's how I that's why I go to you. You have all of the latest news, the tools, you break down how to use it, how people can use it to make money or start their business or in their life.

That said though, we spoke a couple of weeks ago and you said something that was very interesting to me and so I wanted to read it back. You said, "I spend the majority of my time with chat GPT, Perplexity, and Gemini. Those are the main tools that I go to daily. And then you said, I try out all the new stuff as well, but those three are what I rely on to get stuff done. And so, here's where I wanted it to begin.

If someone's watching this video with the belief that when it comes to AI and all the stuff that's happening, they're just behind the curve. Like, they're not using it. And meantime they're seeing all of this hype and videos and content online about new AI tools. Um but for them they're not even using chat GPT perplexity or Gemini right now.

I'm curious to hear what would be the value to that person of listening to the conversation that you and I are about to have.

Yeah. So, I mean, I think a lot of people get overwhelmed with, oh my gosh, there's new tools coming out every single day. I'm hearing about all these announcements. It's moving so fast and all of that feels like very, very overwhelming. Um, but at the end of the day, I think, you know, the point here is that the ones you've been hearing about, the Googles, the ChatgPT, and the and Perplexity are still kind of the king of the hill, right? They're still the ones that are you're going to get the most value out of. So all of this other stuff that's coming at you constantly, I think it's smart to sort of like stay aware that it's happening and that it's coming, but at the end of the day, you're probably not falling that far behind as long as you know like these three tools. These are kind of the big players that I use the most that most people that are really deep in AI are spending the most time with. So, I think, you know, I if you learn how to use kind of like these handful of tools, you're still going to be 90% ahead of the rest of the world who's not paying attention to AI at all.

You know what? You know, it's funny. I've had several moments recently and definitely over the last year where it's like um I feel like everyone a lot of people are having this at the moment, that kind of that first moment where you see what's possible with the AI and it almost like rewires your brain in a way. Like it it's just like mindblowing. And so you spoke about some of the developments that are coming with like automation and like even the that that viewpoint of there's like AI agents that can start to generate you income.

Are there any recent kind of like updates or new tools that you've seen where you kind of like you have that kind of eyeopening moment where you're like this is actually really close like what what are some of the the developments that come to mind?

I would say the the recent launch of VO3 out of Google was a sort of like oh crap moment for me of uh you know it's not too far off from um AI actually being able to create content at a level that you know human content creators are able to do. I mean, you've probably seen all the viral videos floating around of like um vloggers uh that were generated with AI or like the ASMR videos where somebody's like slicing fruit and it's doing it all with V3 or there's these like man on the street kind of interviews where people are walking up to people and asking them questions and they all look very very realistic. Now, I mean, a keen eye who's really used to AI could still spot that they're AI, but they're really really getting close. And I just I think the next generation of these video models, the the V4, the VO 3.5 even, is going to get to a point where they're really going to start fooling people. I mean, right now there's, you know, as we record this, there's there's some like conflicts going on around the world. Uh we don't need to get too deep into that, but there are videos circulating on places like X and Facebook that are not real videos, but they're, you know, showing weapons of mass destruction or, you know, riots and and things like that that are literally AI generated videos that are fooling people into thinking that these are real videos from some of those regions. And, you know, that to me is is probably the scariest part of it all. And also the part where when I started seeing some of the stuff from VO3, I was like, "Oh man, like we're even content creators are uh potentially in trouble in the near future." Because I I do feel like and and I don't want to go too far down like this this like dark dystopian rabbit hole, but I do feel like a lot of the social media platforms, their goal is to sort of uh generate dopamine for people, right? Their their goal the goal of Facebook and Instagram is to keep people scrolling and seeing stuff that is pleasing on the eye that makes them go ooh and watch more of that. Well, I think we're only a year away from algorithms being able to create those, you know, sort of dopamine fixes for people with videos that and I really don't think people are going to care as long as like the video that they see is interesting and keeps them scrolling. I think eventually a lot of the social media platforms will cut out the middleman which in our case is the creator. So I mean there there is some of that sort of like uh stuff that that is like really really eye opening for me that where I go this this is you know this is kind of scary. I think V3 was one of the recent ones where I was like oh man this is this is getting quite insane.

Um, you know perplexity as well that's one that I've started using more and more. They have a new feature called labs which does like deep dive analysis for you and then puts together all these reports with charts and graphs. And it to me it felt like what you would get if you were to go and hire like a you know a $5,000 $10,000 consultant to go and analyze your b uh your business and then come back and explain here's everything I would do in your business based on what I know about your business. I feel like perplexity can literally do what those like really expensive consultants can do. Um, and you know, there's a a window in time right now where if you are a consultant, you kind of have this sort of lowhanging fruit of you can go into businesses, have these tools do a lot of the research for you, consult for these businesses, and let these tools do like 90% of the consultation work for you. You're just sort of the the sort of voice, the delivery mechanism to the company.

You know what? Even is even as I'm listening to you, one of the things that comes to mind for me is that like these next 12 months are critical. Like so much is going to change that getting almost like that head start in the next 12 months will really set people up for like everything that's to come. And so I was actually watching a video from Dan Martell. He's like a entrepreneur. And what he said he said in the next 12 months the top earners won't be programmers, marketers or sales people. They'll be the AI power users. The people that understand how to prompt and interact with these AI models. And so I'm curious to get that's his perspective. I'm curious to get your perspective from like a skill set skill set standpoint like someone's just kind of getting into this.

Where do you think for the next 12 months it's important that they focus on?

I mean I I agree with Dan. I'm familiar with Dan. I've actually met him before. Um know know him. Um, but I I totally agree with that sentiment. I think I think over time what is going to be important is to learn how to be like an orchestrator, right? Like I I compare it to like a symphony, right? You've got the individual players in a symphony. You've got, you know, your trombone player, your violinist, your your flute player, floutist, whatever you call it, right? You've got all the various players of the instruments in a symphony. And then you have the conductor who's sort of instructing all of them which to do. I think for most people the value sort of moves up the the chain a little bit and it becomes every the people who learn to be the conductors of all of these tools are the ones that are going to be the winners, right? Because I think you know AI will eventually be able to be your salesperson. AI will eventually be able to be your coder. It'll be able to be your graphic designer. It'll be able to be your songwriter that make the background music for your videos. It'll be your video creator, your video editor. I think a lot of this AI is going to be able to take off your plate to some degree. And if you learn how to be that orchestrator who says like, okay, I'm going to, you know, have this software developed over here and I'm going to have this video to uh created to promote my software and I'm going to have AI generate a sales message that we know converts and you're you're sort of conducting all of these pieces. I think those are the going to be the winners. The ones that know the sort of landscape of tools, know how to really really successfully prompt these tools to get them to do what they want and can just sort of be that manager, that conductor who's who's going off and sending off their, you know, AI agents, AI employees to go and do the various aspects. I think those are going to be the the real long-term winners. Um, it's not going to be the coders or the video editors or those kinds of things. I still think there's going to be a place for that. I still think people are going to want to do that for the craft and there, you know, there's still the enjoyment factor and all of that kind of stuff. I don't think those roles are going to go away completely, but I do think that the the biggest winners are going to be the ones who learn how to use these tools, learn how to prompt them, learn, you know, figure out the the capabilities and sort of push them to the edge of what they're capable of to to to create systems and businesses that, you know, do their bidding for them, I guess you could say.

Yeah. You know, it's interesting. We we had a guest on a couple weeks ago. Uh she's an she's an investor. She's invested millions of dollars into startups and what she said she said this is the biggest shift that we will experience in our lifetimes. And so that that's just like in our life but specifically in business it's like and even as I listen to you it's the way that you actually build people are going to build businesses build brands is fundamentally going to change. And so you spoke to it with like being the orchestrator.

And so where my mind goes is that before we can kind of show people what's possible with Chachi PT and Perplexity and Gemini, we actually have to show them how do you how do you be the orchestrator? Like how do you um build and draft great prompts? And so what I did in the in the leadup to this episode, I actually went to chat GPT and I asked it for a three-step framework to build like the perfect AI prompt. And so I wanted what I wanted to do is and we can just have fun with this and jam on it. I wanted to give you those steps and then you can actually come back and give me your kind of like feedback and builds and how you actually go about constructing prompts in live time.

Um okay so let let's start with what it says is step one which is aim the lens. It says first tell the model who it should be and what single outcome you care about. So, for example, you're my growth marketer. Double my views and watch time on my Instagram reels. What what what is kind of your thoughts?

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I think when it comes to the whole sort of like prompt engineering kind of concept, I think um it's overvalued a little bit. Um for the most part, when I'm using a lot of these these tools, I am prompting them like I am talking to another team member on Slack, right? it. I I I wouldn't go to another team member on Slack and be like, you know, hey, just so you know, you're an expert at social media and here's what I want you to do, right? I don't sort of give them that extra context and I usually wouldn't with with something like chat GPT either. Um, you know, maybe you get slightly better um responses out of doing that kind of stuff, but I haven't noticed a big difference from that kind of thing. I think um I I think these tools are a lot better at understanding the context of what you're looking for than a lot of people give them credit for. So I would probably just, you know, go to chat GPT and and just talk to them like an employee. Like I would say, hey, here's the things I'm struggling with right now. What advice would you give me without any sort of like extra additional context? I I do think the more information you can give into a prompt, the better the the better the result you're going to give. I just don't necessarily feel that that whole like priming technique of like you are this so answer like this. Um I I I haven't found that to be as valuable as other people have made it out to be I guess.

Okay. I'm interested in what you think about step two which was feed it context. Upload the real world context about you, your business, your brand so that the AI can think similar to you. I'm curious like on the context piece, what have you found is actually the most valuable uh pieces of context or like even a way of thinking about what information is relevant uh for AI to give you a great response versus it's actually pretty useless in helping it give you a good response.

Yeah, I think I think adding as much context as possible is always better. Um you know that that that is one thing that I that I mentioned um around you know the first step as well is the more information you can give it the better the result you're going to get. So I always think giving it additional information giving it additional context um giving it analytics giving it any of that kind of stuff is always always always going to help it give you a better response. Um, I I think what type of information you give it is very sort of dependent on what you're trying to get out of it, but I can give you some examples from my own business, right? Like I I'm I'm I've got a few main sort of KPIs that I'm I'm constantly shooting for, right? Like my main business is my YouTube channel. So, I want new subscriber growth. I want new views on my videos. Um, I want a higher click-through rate. I want longer average view duration. Right? Those are my KPIs on my my YouTube channel. So, what do I do? I usually go and log into my YouTube channel, open up the analytics page where all of that information is visible for my last like 20 videos. It you can see the the view count, you can see the CTR, you can see the um average view duration. I I create like that spreadsheet in the analytics section that shows all those details and I will literally just screenshot that and use that as context when I'm going and talking to chat GPT going, "Hey, my last three videos have been underperforming. Look at the titles. Look at the data from all of my recent videos and help me understand, you know, what's going on. What what should I what should I try to do to get views like my top performing videos?" That context always really really helps because AI is an amazing correlation finding machine, right? It can look at titles, average view durations and CTRs and view numbers and all that kind of stuff and start to find the correlations and go when you have YouTube titles that have this word in the title, it tends to perform 5% better than when you don't use that title. When you have images that have your face in them versus not your face in them, those videos tend to perform, you know, on average 12% better than videos without your face, right? It will find a lot of those correlations that you just sort of staring at the data, you know, with the naked eye, uh, is going to struggle to find. Um, so that kind of additional context is always really, really helpful. If you're using it to help with writing, right? Like maybe you want it to assist you with blog posts, giving it 10 of your most recent blog posts that you actually wrote, that AI didn't write, and then letting it know that the style that you uploaded is how you want it written. This is my voice. This is the style I want it written in. I still don't feel like AI is great at like duplicating your style. But if you give it that extra context, it'll get a little bit closer. you'll probably still want to get in and make some tweets and remove the m dashes and the word delve and some of the like tellt tell signs that it was written with AI. Um, but giving it that that context of here's my writing style. I want your response to be similar to my writing style, it'll it'll get closer to your writing style for sure.

So, I mean that anytime you can just give it additional information that's going to help you get that outcome that you're looking for, you're going to be better off. It's just depending on the business that you're you're trying to do the the context that you're going to feed it is going to vary pretty wide widely, you know.

Yeah. You know, I want to I want to get into how someone can use uh perplexity chat GPT and Gemini. But before we do, I'm curious to hear like your thought on why do you think that especially when it comes to to building businesses or or marketing, we have such a curiosity, such a fascination?

Right? Like why why do you think that is that people sitting at home are like, "Okay, I I need to get in on this."

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Like why why do you think that is that people sitting at home are like okay I I need to get in on this.

I think I I think it's sort of the nature of like this exponential technology. It's we're seeing a technology advance quicker than like anything we've ever seen before, right? Like when when you look at just let's see, we're in 2025 now. If you look back to 2021, we didn't have anything that can generate images yet. We definitely didn't really have anything that can generate videos yet. The text generation that was being spit out with by GPT3 was okay. Nothing like if you looked at it now you'd be like this is this is really dumb artificial intelligence in comparison to what we have now you know by by 2020 end of 2022 we had chat GPT which was using GPT 3.5 that actually started to get on people's radars going okay this is really starting to get smart now um in 2023 we got GPT4 which everybody was like really mind blown by we started to see the rise of these AI image generators in 2023 where that was where they really really started ed to pop off. We had Midjourney version 4 which was a really really big leap in realism and and people are like, "Okay, this is getting really really good." And just like these the these leaps in capabilities are getting closer and closer and closer together to the point where we saw Sora like, you know, last year and everybody was like, "Holy crap, this is insane." Now you see the video generators today like just barely over a year later and it makes Sora look like crap, right? And it's just like the the the the leaps are just these exponential leaps. And I don't think we've seen something sort of accelerate like this at at this rate. And I and I think that is why so many people are sort of a freaked out by it, but also b feel like they're constantly falling behind and there's so much they need to keep up with because there is like it really is like every week there's new things that that came out that we couldn't do last week. And I think I think that pace is what really has grabbed everybody's attention around it.

Yeah. No, it's so it's so awesome. You know, I just wanna I just want to get into it. Um and and back to what you told me even when we spoke a couple of weeks ago, you said I spend the majority of my time with chat GPT, Perplexity, and Gemini. Those are my main tools that I go to daily. You know what? Just to begin before we get into actually like the live examples.

Mhm. What? Why is it those three? Why is it those three? And then also, I think adding on to that, I typically kind of almost see those three like used interchangeably like some some people use like Gemini, some people use like Claude, some people use Chat GPT or Perplexity.

What is like the nuance of each one and where it makes sense to use it?

Yeah. So, they each have like some slight differences. You know, this is so what I'll probably be sharing is fairly anecdotal to my business. Um, but I do think they'll be value for anybody to to to see. Like they each have their own nuances. So like Gemini has this really massive context window meaning that you can feed it a ton of information more information than any other AI system and it'll be able to sort of consume and you know understand this wide amount of information like uh I think it's I think currently the available model is a million tokens which is roughly 750,000 words of text input and output right so for context I think that's like you could upload the whole Harry Potter book series and ask questions about it and it will understand all of the information from all of those books, right? So, it's it's like that one has that massive context window. So ways that I t typically use Gemini is if I need to um you know better understand a really really long research paper or let's say there's a a a YouTube keynote or something that goes for like 3 hours long and you want to take that entire 3-hour transcript and have it broken down into bullet points that you can understand. There's no better model than Gemini for that because it has that massive massive context window. So that's where like Gemini for me is is sort of one of my go-tos. Like that deep research feature can essentially create like a mini master class on like whatever topic you want to learn about, right? Um Gemini also has notebook LM attached to it. And if you haven't used that, that's a really really impressive feature that will turn any concept into like a mini 13minute podcast or 15-inute podcast for you. So you can take like these long documents of deep research that you've pulled up or you can take an article that you found on TechCrunch or or any content at all, throw it into Notebook LM, which is a a Gemini product, and it will make a podcast about that. So, if you don't want to go and read the latest research paper or read all of that research that Gemini found for you, you can have a 10 to 15 minute podcast generated for you and next time you're, you know, you're driving to the office or whatever, put on the podcast and listen to all the information that it round up for you in a very sort of like twoperson discussionbased podcast where they talk about that information they found. So like that's where Gemini for me like those handful of things make Gemini super super valuable. Uh Gemini is also really really good at writing code. It's one of the better codew writers out there because it has again that massive context window. It can it can look at an entire codebase of an app because it can inject so much text into it. So that's Gemini.

Um ChatGpt in my opinion is like the best brainstorming partner, right? It's really good at that sort of back and forth conversational. Here's here's an idea I have. What do you think about it? Here's a struggle that I'm having. Here's my analytics. Can you look at all of this and let me know your thoughts and what I should do next? Their newest 03 model is like a thinking model where you can give it this information and it will think through and sort of like analyze the information and you can actually open up the detailed view and see it thinking. And this new 03 version will actually search the web for you. It will use tools for you. It will generate graphs and charts for you during that thinking process and then come back to you with the the best possible response for your prompt after it really really thought it through. So like I love chat GPT as that like brainstorming partner um through email. We talked a little bit about the um the the 40 image gen model that chat GPT put out where you can upload an image and say put a hat on it or make this YouTube thumbnail for me or draw out like a little handdrawn sketch and say turn this into like an image that actually looks good and it will do that and you can do all of that directly within chat GPT. Their their image generation is really really good. um when it comes to writing sort of scripts and things like that, I feel like chat GPT is capable of making the most like human sounding video scripts. So, I really really love it for that.

And then moving on to perplexity. Perplexity to me is like the new Google, right? So, whenever I have like just a random question, you know, I've got two kids. I've got a 12-year-old and a 10-year-old and they'll ask me random stuff that I have no clue the answer to, right? Like you know there was a football game on with like Texas A&M and they're like what does&M stand for and I'm like you know I have no idea let me ask perplexity right what does Texas&M stand for right so just any like random questions I have I will ask perplexity and just get a quick response for it but they also just rolled out like this new um labs feature which does like deep analysis and I I'll show you some screenshots of that in a couple minutes here but like it does this deep analysis of whatever you ask it to do analysis on and searches the web for you and watches YouTube videos for you. And similar to like Google's deep research, their labs project product will do similar stuff, but it actually comes back with like even more visuals and even more cited sources and it will draw up graphs and really give you this like detailed analysis that like you feel like you got it from a consultant or something. Um, Perplexity is also really really great at troubleshooting things. Let's say uh you're having a using Windows and some sort of bug keeps popping up and your app keeps crashing. Going to Perplexity and saying I'm having this issue. How do I solve it? I haven't found any tool better than Perplexity that can go and search the web and watch tutorials for me and you know look for articles that this problem has popped up and sort of get me over that hurdle. So yeah, I mean that's pretty much the ways that I use each one. They each have sort of like nuanced uses. Um, but that's pretty much the the sort of grand overview breakdown of how I use them.

See, I'm I'm glad that we're having this conversation because for me personally, I only really use Chat GPT right now.

But then as I'm listening to you speak, I'm like, okay, I'm thinking of some use cases for Gemini. I'm thinking how I could use the new Google in perplexity.

Um, so you know what? Let's let's just get into it. Um, and so we can start with whichever one you want to start with, um, Matt, but for that person that's listening at home that I don't know, they want to start a business, they want to build something, or they want to grow their business, get more customers, more revenue, like whatever the thing is, I'm curious to understand and for you to show us like how you're using these tools.

Mhm. Um, and I think similar to the experience that I just had, people will start kind of ideas will start firing and kind of coming to mind of how they can use it in their specific use case.

Sure. Yeah. So, I I would say if if you're just going to pick one of the three tools, I think you probably are going to get the most bang out of bang for your buck out of Chat GPT. um saying that uh you can actually use Gemini's AI studio for free and get like all the benefits that I'm talking about uh for like out of the free use of it. And then Perplexity also has a free plan as well. So if you're just going to pay for one, my advice would be pay for ChatGpt and then use the free versions of AI Studio and Perplexity. Um but yeah, that's that's how I would use them. And I I think um you know when it comes to like okay I want to build a business with this stuff I would probably start by brainstorming with chat GPT like give chat GPT this rough idea of like here's the business I want or uh here's the struggles I'm having with starting up this business um and and use the chat GPT 03 model which will go and search the web and you know do some extra analysis for you and let it sort of break down a road map for you. It's really really good at sort of going and saying all right this is the business you want to build here's the road map I would follow and then just start working through that road map and use the tools that are available to do each step in the road map. That would probably be the starting point that I would recommend.

Yeah, that's awesome. Okay, let's let's go into um well, you mentioned chat GPT. Let's start with chat GPT, the one that I'm using dayto-day right now.

Okay, cool. All right. So, I've got Chad GPT on the screen. Now, I do have the pro the ult pro. Yeah, I think they call it pro, the $200 a month um plan. So, there might be some features in mind that not everybody has if you're on like the $20 a month plan. Um but so this is Chat PT. Let me I have some notes here of some of the stuff that I wanted to share. So, what do you think the best way to do this is? I can show some past prompts. I can uh you know, maybe we we prompt some stuff from scratch and see what it comes up with. Uh what's the sort of flow you want to go with here?

I think let let's start with cuz I'm curious to see like how you've been using it. So, let's start with some of your like past prompts and then maybe we can also uh we can like brainstorm or think up some like fresh things and and even as I see your prompts, maybe it'll come to mind like some some fresh things that we can do on the spot for people as well.

Sure. Okay. So, we can actually see this is one that I did. I'm actually not sure what date that I shared this or I did this one. Uh but this video is really underperforming on my channel. What should I do to optimize it to boost performance? Right? Like super simple prompt, not a ton of extra context. You can actually see here's here's like the screenshot with the thumbnail and the title for that video. Here's some analytics that I shared with it. I literally did this from my phone. You can tell by the screenshots that I just I was taking screenshots of my on my phone just I was probably sitting on my couch going, "How do I optimize this video?" Really really simple prompt. Not a whole lot of um extra context to it. This was using the chat GPT03 model. Um, so we can see what it gave me back. Uh, repackage title and thumbnail. It started giving me things that I can try. What to do? AB test two to three thumbnails. Um, why it matters. CTR is the algorithm's first hurdle. Even a half a percent bump can snowball impressions. Shorten the title and add urgency. The current 78 character question gets truncated on mobile. Shorten it. um thumbnail tweaks. So, it gives me some uh some some things to test on the thumbnail tweaks. Even suggested some like different text to put on the thumbnail. Uh it suggested some different title options. Uh reposition, increase retention and watch time, some some different ways to sort of like re-angle the video. And you can see this is all analyst an um analysis from giving it two screenshots and a super simple prompt. This is why I don't think like overengineering prompts really makes that big of a difference. You can see how much analysis it gave me just on that really really simple basic prompt. And here's the thing about chat GPT as well is chat GPT now has memory. So it actually remembers all of your past conversations. So, it remembers conversations I had with it last week about videos underperforming or this video did really really well or whatever conversations I had about my business or my YouTube channel, that memory is still there. So, when you're chatting with it now, it will remember like, oh, last week we talked about this, so that's additional context that I should use in this discussion now. So that is all happening as well, which is another reason I don't think the overengineering of prompts is super super necessary because it does have a lot of the context of what you've previously chatted about with it. But you can see here's all sorts of just like this is the type of information that if you were dealing with a consultant, they would probably give you based on that information about your video.

So it's giving me uh things to do differently on my next upload. Uh, it tells me what metrics to shoot for. Aim for uh going from 4.8 to 5.8% click-through rate. Um, improve the uh first minute retention. And then at the bottom, it gives me a a nice little TLVR that I can use. So, that was all a super super prompt.

Just quickly to to jump in, Matt.

Okay. So, and and to your point, it gives such a detailed response. And so, I think any sort of like analysis or uh review or like feedback on work, especially if you're like a marketer or you're trying to grow, even if you're not a marketer, you're just trying to grow something and you want to improve over time at a craft, it can give you great feedback. Here's where I'm actually curious to kind of dig into your your brain and your experience on this, Matt,

is you put in a pretty simple prompt and you got like this long response on the on the other side of it.

Mhm. When you're reading through the response, how are you deciding, okay, this is what matters. This is what I'm going to ask it like follow-up questions on. this is the part that I'm actually gonna use in uh like my work moving forward. I guess once you get this long response, how are you actioning off of that?

Yeah. So, I mean, I'm literally going and and using a lot of the suggestions that it gives me, right? So, if it's telling me to split test these thumbnails or maybe try this title instead, like these ones, I will go and test some of these alternate titles. Um, I'm just sort of reading it all. I mean, how I sort of disseminate it and decide what's important. I feel like that's that's a bit subjective, right? Like everybody's going to sort of interpret it different and and find value from from different pieces of the information. But for me, it's just like a a sort of like grand learning experience. Like with every video I put out, I want to get better and better and better. I want I want to figure out how to do better titles, better thumbnails, uh, better engagement, better retention. I just want to get better every single time. So, with every single video, I'm essentially generating like a a little mini lesson of what I should learn from the results of that video so that next time I make a video, I have a little bit more information going into that video. I would say a lot of times I'm I'm, you know, when it comes to YouTube specifically, there's only so many things I can tweak. It's hard for me to go back and re-record parts of those videos. It's already online. It's too late now. So the, you know, I'm taking the stuff that I can actually take action on, like, you know, trying a different title, trying a different thumbnail, maybe, uh, you know, I don't really think description or keywords matter that much on YouTube, but maybe it'll suggest things like that that I can actually tweak now, but it's also giving me new insights on how to approach my next video in line as well. So, that's kind of how I'm looking at it. I mean, you can see my follow-up prompt. Um the the original title of this was focused on AI safety and I said I don't uh do a lot of videos about AI safety. I was wondering if the topic just isn't sexy enough. And then it sort of analyzed that and said yeah maybe let's try some new angles instead of the AI safety angle. And it started uh suggesting some different different angles like uh deep fakes and election chaos AI powered cyber crime. So instead of focusing on a the the big picture of AI safety, it's saying, you know, maybe talk about one of the elements of AI safety like deep fakes, like cyber crime, like agents that are spending your money or the loss of jobs, lean into those type of titles instead of the bigger grand scheme of AI safety, right? So, it it for me it's just like a ton of insights that could help me maybe slightly optimize my current video, but will probably make my next video do even better than this video, I guess, if that makes sense.

Yeah. No, that's awesome. You know, I want to I want to key in on one thing that you said which I think is so important and it's been valuable for me and then I actually want to go to the the image generation stuff that you can do with chat GPT. Um, but before we do that, you you spoke about it being like the way that you look at it is it's like a learning experience.

And it's interesting because

A year ago, I spoke to someone. We, we had, uh, Dom Ashburn. Uh, he goes by Mr. Grateful online. Um, and that was like the first conversation that we'd ever really had about AI. And like, I was just starting to learn about it. And he said to me, he said, "The biggest mistake that people make, um, is that they treat ChatGPT like it's Google."

And so if you think about how you use Google, you just put in, it's very transactional, right? You're like, "Uh, what time does this store close?" And you, you're like, it gives you a very transactional response. It closed at this time. Uh, you want something, you get exactly what you asked for. There's no like building on the conversation.

And so he said to me, he goes, "ChatGPT, it's like a conversation, right? So there's actually there's back and forth." And so even as I'm just listening to you and we're going through this thread, you're actually, once you're getting a response from ChatGPT, you're elaborating with like, kind of maybe some thoughts that you've had, um, yourself, like, "Oh, it's the, maybe it's the safety topic isn't the one," or like certain struggles that you've had. Very similar as if you were having a two-way conversation with a human about a certain problem.

Exactly. Yeah. Again, it's like, I, if I had, uh, you know, I do have a producer that I work with and him and I bounce ideas off of each other and I say, "Hey, maybe it's not working because of this," and he gives me some feedback on it. I literally use tools like ChatGPT in the same way. I say, "Here's what I'm seeing. What are your thoughts?" It gives me a response and then I respond with, "Or maybe it's this. What do you think about that?" and I get, I get, uh, more response back and we further go deeper down the conversation.

Now, saying that, I do think there's still a lot of value to having those kinds of conversations with humans because, um, a lot of times AI will be fairly agreeable and kind of tell you what you want to hear. Um, that, that is kind of the case with AI from time to time. So, I do still think it's valuable to get human input and human feedback on, on this kind of stuff. But from a very sort of like analytical, we're looking at the numbers, we're looking at what worked for other people, we're looking at what's worked for you in the past, and we're finding those correlations. I, I don't think a human is better than AI at that kind of stuff.

Yeah. You know, it's actually, it's interesting. I had to do this recently cuz what you say about AI being, uh, too agreeable is exactly correct where, like, every time I would give it like a certain insight or thought that I had, I'd get a response that would begin with, "This is the most brilliant thing that you said." Yeah. Or like, it was just too nice.

And so I actually, um, I got it to save it in its memory. I'm like, "Just give me the honest, blunt assessment and imagine that you're like that friend." Um, you know, that friend that they just tell you the truth even, they don't even, they know that it might like hurt your feelings or it might piss you off, but they just give you the truth. I was like, "Imagine you are that friend," and that has like slightly, um, it's slightly less agreeable now, which I, which I like.

Yes, you can definitely give it that context. Um, you know, I like to, I like to often, um, in my prompts say, uh, "Be brutally honest. You know, don't be nice." That, that kind of stuff. Um, and it will, it'll be a lot more honest with you and it will, um, it will tell you hard truths. I mean, one of my favorite prompts because it has memory now and it remembers a lot of the conversations is just to go and say like, "Things like, based on our past handful of conversations, what's a, a gap that I'm not seeing but that you're recognizing based on our conversations? Don't hold back. You know, you know, be, be completely brutally honest with me." And it will look through your past conversations and be like, "Oh, you're, you know, you're, you're too obsessed with how many views you're getting. Don't worry about views. Worry about, um, you know, making videos that fulfill you and, uh, that, that you think your audience would find valuable and stop focusing on the view." You know, it'll, it'll kind of go down that, that path and, and really give you some like brutally honest feedback based on all the questions you've recently asked it. And I, I really, really like giving it that kind of additional context of, you know, "Be brutally honest, don't hold back, don't, you know, don't be nice, don't be totally agreeable." Um, I don't really put that in the system prompt. A lot of times I'll just put that right in my prompt as I'm, I'm asking it questions, but I think it's probably smart to just put it right in the system prompt so it does it every time.

Yeah. No, 100%, 100%. Um, okay, Matt, where should we go? Where should we go next? Is there something else?

You know, we can talk about the image generation as well. Actually, let me show you this. This I think is really valuable as well. I've actually created a, a shorts writer inside of ChatGPT. So, I, I put out, uh, shorts on my YouTube channel and my Instagram reels, and I've gotten to a fairly systematic point now where they're, they're coming out, I don't know, I think about four times a week I'm putting out a new short. Um, and pretty much all of the shorts are actually written by AI.

So, this is, I'll actually even show you my system prompt here. So, so this is projects, right? You can see on the left side of my screen, these are various folders. Uh, these are called projects. And inside of each project, you can give the project custom instructions. So these are instructions that only prompts that I enter within this project, uh, will follow these custom instructions. So these instructions I've got that you're an expert YouTube shorts and Instagram reels. Uh, shoot for 45 to 50 seconds with the video length. Create video scripts that will be 1 minute or less in the style of the scripts in the project knowledge. So I, I actually uploaded a bunch of scripts in the style that I want. Use this transcripts in the project knowledge to determine a consistent formula behind the video scripts. Then use the details about the video idea inside of the prompt to create a video about the details in the prompt and the style of these videos. I mean, it's a pretty long prompt, so I don't want to read the whole thing. Um, but I basically put together this entire in-depth prompt of, I'm going to give you like a news article or an article about a new piece of technology that just came out. I want you to write a script for me that would make a good short, right? And then I uploaded a bunch of various, uh, transcripts from shorts that I liked from other YouTubers. Uh, there's some short transcripts from Cleo Abram in there, from, uh, Callaway, from, I think Roberto Nixon is another one. A handful of my favorite shorts creators. I grabbed the transcripts off of their YouTube transcripts and used those and said, "Here's some styles that I like. Uh, find the, the, the prompt basically said, find the patterns in these, like what makes these shorts do well, and then write when I give you a, a news article or a new piece of tech or something, write a short that's a very similar formula to the formulas that these people use and, you know, give me that script back."

So now I can give it like, I literally don't have to give it any extra prompt. I can just find a news article, um, or a PDF file on like anything. Let me see if I have one real quick to, to even like demo it. Um, let's see here.

You know what's interesting? I just think cuz, cuz I have this as well. Um, I think a lot of people, and maybe they're even sitting at home watching this, they want to put out more content online or like on their Instagram, maybe even like on YouTube or TikTok. We always hear about people talking about like, you can build an audience on TikTok and so it's like, it just streamlines that process, like it accelerates that content creation process. And the cool part about it as well that I've seen is because you're actually using, cuz it has this memory, uh, with all these transcripts, it can actually help you get to like that really good V1 of your script way faster than if you were just writing it from scratch.

Exactly. Exactly. That's the idea. You get that V1, that rough draft. So, here's the, here's the paper for Alpha Evolve, which is a recent, um, Google announcement. That's an AI algorithm that writes AI algorithms, right? So, literally all I did was upload this PDF. And because I have all the custom instructions and the examples of the types of scripts I like, I don't have to give any extra prompt. I could just submit this PDF. That's it. I'm just giving it the PDF with no additional prompt. And that custom instruction is telling it what it needs to do with that. I actually left it on 03. I actually think 40 is better for doing this. Um, but you can see now it's writing a script for me.

Just quickly as it's writing it out, cuz I think this is a really helpful context and I'm actually curious to know as well, how do you think about the different versions of ChatGPT? So I, I saw for example, you just shifted from what 03 to to 04 and then there's obviously 03 Pro, like how are you deciding which one makes sense to use in which instance?

So for the most part, I'm mostly just using 03 and 40. Those are really the only two that I ever really use that much. Um, 03 is a lot more analytical. So, it's going to think through if, if there's like, if it needs to figure out some logic or find some correlations in data, um, or, uh, you know, even if you want it to create like charts and things like that for you, 03 is probably going to be the one that you go to. 03 Pro is kind of the same as 03, uh, but it's going to think for a lot longer. So, if it's like a more complex issue that you needed to help you solve, you would probably move up to the 03 Pro model. But for the most part, 03, I find to be good enough. Um, and then 40, I actually find to be a much better writer. So if I want it to write me a script or a blog post or, um, I just want it to brainstorm ideas with me, I tend to find 40 to be a little bit more creative, a little bit more human sounding. Um, it, it's, it's better at those sort of like writing and creative tasks that it works out with you. So that's the way I look at them. 03, if it needs to be analytical or find correlations or work with data, 03 is my go-to. If it's for writing or creativity or brainstorming or that kind of thing, 40 is my go-to.

So, you can see on this one, I used 03 for it. The script isn't probably going to be great. "A brand new AI just rewrote 56 years of math history by editing its own code. It's called Alpha Evolve," etc., etc. But what I would probably typically do is give this same prompt to 40, which will, uh, be faster, but also probably read a little more humanlike. So if I go and create a new chat in, well, I need to be inside my project, but let's go ahead and upload that same PDF again.

Um, it's actually interesting what you say because I found for myself, I actually probably use 40 the most.

Yeah, I use 40 the most as well, for sure. 40 is my main go-to. Um, 03 is again, more analytical, data-driven. I'm trying to find correlations in my data. Right? So if I'm uploading those screenshots, like I mentioned before, of like, "Here's my YouTube analytics, find out the, you know, the patterns and the types of videos that work well and suggest new videos that I can make based on what you're seeing." I would use 03 for that because it's going to look at all the data and find correlations for you. However, if I'm just brainstorming ideas, like, "I need a new idea for a video. I don't know what video to make this week." I will find 40 to be better at that kind of stuff because it's a little more creative. It's a little less analytical.

So if I use 40 now and I give it that same Alpha Evolve, it's still got all the same custom instructions and same projects, um, this one's going to work a little bit faster than 03 and give me a response ideally. And, um, it'll probably read a little bit more like how I would read a script over the 03 sort of analytical version. So, "Alpha Evolve just cracked a 56-year-old math problem and then helped optimize the AI model that created it. It's called Alpha Evolve and it's new AI agent from DeepMind that uses LLM in a way you've probably never seen before." Right? So here's the whole script that it wrote. I use this as my rough draft. Probably reward it a teeny bit so it sounds more like me. Record my A-roll of it. Send it off to my editor to add some B-roll over it. And I've got a short that could go live tomorrow, right? Like, I, I think when it comes to doing a lot of shorts, the hardest part for me is like this, the research and the script writing. Flipping on my camera and recording A-roll and then sending it to an editor is the easy part. Figuring out what to make the videos about and then writing the script is the hard part, and that's what I lean on AI for.

Yeah, that's so cool. Okay, ju just quickly, all of these, these are like almost, I think you called it system prompts. Is that like a, a custom GPT that you have set up or is

Similar to a custom GPT, but these are inside of projects, right? So, a project, think of a project as just like a folder inside of your, your ChatGPT account, right? So, here's all of my like normal chats that aren't inside of a folder. Like, I've just got tons of them. I can scroll forever. You can see them all. But then you have projects. And projects are folders where you sort of bundle like similar discussions together inside of these project folders. And then inside of the project, you can add custom instructions that only chats that happen within that folder follow these instructions.

I've not been doing that. Okay.

Yeah. So, if you want, so, like you can see I've got one called Shorts Writer. It's got those custom instructions. You can see I've generated tons and tons of shorts with it already. It'll, uh, my computer doesn't want to load more, but,

It's almost like a department within your ChatGPT in a way.

Yeah. It has custom instructions that, you know, specifically will tailor whatever discussion you have inside of this folder with these instructions. Right? I've got another one called Explain This For Me with, um, instructions on like, I'm going to give you research papers or articles. This is what I'll plug in concepts that are sort of confusing and I need help understanding them. I literally just throw the PDF in here. It's got the custom instructions. So, I don't need to provide a prompt with it. It will use the custom instructions as that prompt. So just tossing a PDF in there, it'll give me, you know, like, "Here's my Alpha Evolve overview where it explains to me everything I should know about this Alpha Evolve research paper that we were just looking at, a high-level summary, uh, what you need to know, analogy to help you understand, what it means for the future, a one-minute sound bite if I was to explain it in a video, and why people should care." Right? And if you look at my system prompt inside of this Explain This For Me folder, "Your job is to simplify articles and research papers. You're an expert at making complex topics sound simple and using analogies to help people really understand something at a deeper level. I'll give you an article, research paper, video transcript, or some other sort of document. Read it, make sense of it, explain it back to me. Give me a high-level summary. Um, what the information is and what it means. Give me a bulleted list. Um, if applicable, give me an analogy to help me understand it. Tell me what we're capable of now as a result of this information or what the future implications of this information is. Why is it important? If I was to create a quick one-minute sound bite to explain it to people, what would I tell them? And what's the reason they should care?" Right now, if we go and look back, every single little sort of, uh, thing that I asked it to, you can see I didn't give it a prompt at all. I just uploaded a PDF, no additional prompt to go with it, and it followed all of those custom instructions that I plugged into the custom instructions. And I, and every example, Alibaba, Zero Search AI training, same thing. Uh, this one it looks like I copied and pasted all the text in instead of uploading a PDF, but same thing. Gave me a sort of description, an analogy, uh, one-minute sound bite, why people should care, all of that sort of thing.

Didn't need to give it any extra prompt other than just copying and pasting the text in.

But, but you know what? I, I even said it. I was like, "It's almost like you have a department." Like if you're thinking about a company, it's like there's like a certain department where everything in this, uh, within this domain gets sorted here or gets done here. And it's almost like, um, it's like AI. It's like it's the, the ultimate work companion. And so like anything that you're just doing consistently, I guess in your life, but if we speak about in business, like you're making scripts for videos every single week, it's like that should be a project. That should be a department,

Within your ChatGPT. And it's kind of, it's interesting because it sounds like the way that you crafted the custom instructions actually was doing some of the things that we spoke about in the three-step structure where like

Yeah, that's what I mentioned. I put, I would put that kind of stuff in a custom instruction, not necessarily in the prompt itself.

Yeah. Okay, cool. So, and it all comes, all comes full circle. You know what? Before we, um, close out the ChatGPT stuff and we go to Perplexity, can you just quickly show what's possible with image generation on ChatGPT?

Yeah, so image generation happens inside of ChatGPT 40. Um, I actually generated an image yesterday. We're trying to make an image for a thumbnail where, uh, it was supposed to be like a jack of all trades. So I basically said, "Create an image of a man who's a jack of all trades. He appears to be a doctor, a contractor, an artist, and an engineer all in one. Make the aspect ratio 9:16," and it generated this. And then one thing that I really like about the image generator inside of ChatGPT is that you don't have to give it a new prompt to give it a new image. You just tell it what you want it to change. So I said, "Uh, there should be more tech. Add a laptop somehow. Also make it full body. I want to see the legs and feet as well." And I mean, it gave him an extra arm, so I didn't end up using this obviously, but I just, I, I like the way that you just say like, "Here, change this, change that." It's again, like talking to a person. It's not like Midjourney or Stable Diffusion where you need to go and type a whole new prompt again. You can just say, "Oh, I like that you did that. I don't like it you did that. Go fix it for me." And it'll give you like a, a new version of it. Um, I was trying to get like an interesting future tools logo design. Uh, it initially gave me this like text logo concept stylized and I went, "Uh, I want an image created image of the logo." And then it actually created an image version. And then I literally just said, "Remove the background." Right? No extra prompt. And there we go. We've got like a PNG version with the background removed on it from that one extra prompt.

Yeah. So again, it's like, it's like having a graphic designer that can generate images for you, but you talk to it like you would talk to a person. Instead of talking to it like you're a prompt engineer trying to think of the perfect prompt to get the perfect image, you just say, "Remove this, add that, change this," and it goes and makes those tweaks for you.

Yeah. You know, I'm, I'm, I'm curious because I remember a few weeks ago, maybe it's a couple months ago now, when this feature first came out and I was seeing on Instagram, um, and like online all of these people that had created these AI ChatGPT generated images and it was like,

Studio Ghibli kind of stuff.

Yeah, it was, it was all the rage for like a period of time on social media. I'm curious for you. Have you actually gotten to the point where it's generating images that you're using in your business or in your operations? Or is it still more, it's just kind of cool conceptually? It's cool to just like see what it can do. Like, have you actually seen a real use case?

So, yes and no. So, it's, I, I think what we're getting at here is right now, they're really good meme generators, right? They're good at making images that are like Studio Ghibli style that you can share on Instagram and Twitter and people laugh at them, right? I think, I think it's good at doing that kind of stuff. Um, I do use it a little bit. So, like, like I was showing you for thumbnails, I was trying to get this like jack of all trades. We didn't end up using this. I was going back and forth with my producer who, my producer was also generating images in ChatGPT at the same time. We ended up using one of the ones that he generated. But the, like my YouTube thumbnails are sort of a mix of like real images, like it's really me, or like if I interview somebody, it'll have the person that I interviewed in it. But then there'll also be some like AI generated elements in the image. But we're not really just like saying, "Generate this thumbnail for me," and then just taking the thumbnail exactly and using it. We're almost using it to like generate like one of the assets that will be worked into the thumbnail. But we still do a lot of editing in Photoshop to get it to look the way we want it. Right. Another place I use it is I have used it a little bit for like B-roll in some of my videos. Um, like I did a short, uh, that Nvidia sponsored, and there was one part where, um, I, I didn't know what sort of B-roll to put over it. So, I actually took an image, uh, or I had ChatGPT generate an image of like an Nvidia GPU for me, and then I took that image and then, I think I pulled it into like Runway or Luma or one of these AI video generators and told it to animate this image for me, and then I used that as the B-roll over like a certain talking part where I didn't know what other B-roll to use during that portion. So, I do use it a little bit here and there, but it's nothing where I can just take what it generates and just use it. It's like, I generate something and that just becomes like a piece of the puzzle that I'm putting together. It, it, it becomes like one asset of a bigger image that we're still making in Photoshop. It, it becomes one little short B-roll clip of a longer video that has, you know, uh, either stock B-roll or B-roll that I shot real footage of, but I needed to cover up this three seconds. So, I made something with AI real quick to like cover that up. So, it's, it, it's helping me as like a, a little tool to fill in some of these little gaps, but it's not yet the type of thing where it generates a thumbnail and I just copy and paste that thumbnail over to YouTube. Like, I, it's not there for me yet. I know some channels are doing that already, but I don't think they meet my standards yet, personally.

Yeah, it, it sounds like it's a component, an element of your workflow. It is not the workflow, which I think is like, we're still not at that point. We might be there in the future. Who knows? It sounds like in the next 12 months, we could well be, but we're not there yet.

For sure.

Let's, let's switch gears then. I want to go into, um, Perplexity and and Perplexity Labs. Let's, let's see. Um, I'm curious to see that cuz I've never actually used it.

So, yeah. So again, Perplexity, I use this. I can't remember the last time I did a Google search. Now, I, I'm still a fan of Google. I like their AI Studio, which we'll talk about more in a minute here. Um, but any questions I have, Perplexity is the place to go, right? Like it's like you've mentioned that the sort of like very sort of transactional searches. Um, I will use Perplexity for that. Um, you know, and, and the nice thing about Perplexity, real-time updates. It gets, it gets news in real time. So, if you're like a sports fan, you can ask about the sports score. It will know the sports score right now in real time. Um, so it's great for any sort of questions you would ask Google about in the past. You can now go ask Perplexity and it will work just as well. And you know, even, even like the lazy Google searches that like people might do, like, uh, you know, "best, uh, best digital camera," right? I'm not even asking it a question. I'm just putting in what I would put for like a, a Google search normally. And it will give me probably a better response than what Google will because it's going to go and look at all of these, uh, channel, all of these sources that know about cameras. It will search the web. It will watch YouTube camera reviews. It will do all of that kind of information and then come back with its sort of analysis of like, "All right, you've got the Fujifilm XT5. Here's why people like it. The Sony a6700. Here's why people like it. The Canon EOS R50. Here's why people like it." Even sometimes linking off to where you can go buy it. Right? It's got all of this detail for me. And my whole prompt was "best digital camera." The same type of thing. You type into like a Google search. Perplexity, in my opinion, is going to give you a better response. And it's not loaded with ads at the top where you're like, "Am I actually seeing a legit review or is this like an affiliate sponsored review?" Right? It's, it's just a nice breakdown of what people are saying and why these cameras are the ones you should consider. So, that's sort of like the, probably the 90% of how I use Perplexity is literally how I would have used to use Google.

Just quickly before you get into the, the other stuff. So if I just wanted to understand kind of like the inner workings of this. So it sounds like, so when we use Google and you, you know this actually better than me cuz you have like a marketing, uh, background as well.

Mhm.

Google operates mainly off like SEO, like search engine optimization and like keywords and like ranked search terms in order to generate results. By the sound of it, and, and I guess the point is is that companies can also pay to rank higher on Google.

Um, versus with Perplexity, it sounds like it digests basically all of the relevant information on the internet and then surfaces to you the best, the most relevant, uh, helpful, impactful information. Is that right the way that I've described it or is it something else?

Yeah, I would say that's, that's fairly accurate. So, um, when it comes to Google, it's, it is mostly SEO and then that you've got, you know, a few paid ads towards the top that if you know, people are bidding on the keywords that you just searched for to get to the top. The way you can look at Perplexity is it's almost like Perplexity goes and does the Google search for you, reads the top 20 articles that came up on a Google search, and then comes back to you with its findings. Right? So, Perplexity behind the scenes is still using a search engine. It might even be using Google. I'm not 100% sure, but it's still using a search engine behind the scenes. It's going and doing this search for you and essentially clicking into the articles and reading all of the articles that it finds and then coming back and summarizing its sort of analysis of everything that it found from doing that search for you.

Interesting. All right. So, it's like it's like sort of eliminating that step of after you do the Google search, clicking in and opening up all of the articles to read and figure out like what people are saying are the best cameras. It's doing that clicking into the articles for you and then summarizing his findings.

Interesting. All right. Sounds like I have to start using Perplexity after this. Um, okay. What about Perplexity Labs then? If this is like the 90% of how you use Perplexity, what is Perplexity Labs?

So, Perplexity Labs is like, it will do this sort of deep research analysis, um, and then come back to you with like a, a report that is actually an actionable, usable report that you can, uh, sort of take actions off of. Like, it's, it's almost like a, a consultant that will search the web, write code for you to generate charts and graphs, find resources for you, and sort of bring it all together for you in like a, a single report. Now, to run one of these, it usually takes a good like 10 minutes. It's like a pretty in-depth process. So, the best thing I could probably do is is show you one that I've done recently. Um,

Yeah, let's see it. So here's, here's an example. "Analyze viral YouTube videos and successful channels and AI to identify patterns of success, content strategies, engagement tactics, and audience appeal. Provide actionable insights for content in this niche. I really want to focus on view counts and retention. My channel is the AI focused channel called Matt Wolf. You can also look at my top performing and worst performing videos to help with the analysis and tailor advice specifically for my channel." So basically, go look at all the AI channels, including my channel. Figure out what's working, what's not, give me a report back. And then you can see the report. It actually generated charts. Um, so,

Just quickly, Matt, are you uploading, so like what we spoke about with ChatGPT, are you uploading context in there, like your actual analytics, or you're just telling it, go search the internet and figure it out?

Go search the internet and figure it out. So, it can actually go and look at my YouTube channel. I don't even need to give Perplexity screenshots in this scenario cuz it will go and look at the stats on my YouTube channel for me. So, no additional context other than that prompt that you just saw. You can see that in the sources, it went and looked at my YouTube channel, but it also looked at some other YouTube channels as well. It, it searched 62 different sources. Uh, and you can, you can actually look at all the sources. It's looking at other people's, uh, YouTube channels. It's looking at my YouTube channel. It's pulling as much data as it can find from around the web. It's looking at, um, let's see, "How the YouTube algorithm works." Um,

Interesting.

It looks at all sorts of stuff. Backlinko, audience retention tactics. Uh, so it's, it's looking at data. It's looking at articles that teach you how to be better at YouTube. It's looking at other YouTubers. Uh, "Top 10 AI YouTubers you must follow in 2024." So, it's, it's doing this research on what other YouTube channels should I be looking at to help with my analysis. And then when it comes back, you can see that it has a really, I'll just kind of scroll it real quick so you can see, but it's got this analysis with charts and graphs and some, you know, even some like, "Here's some thumbnail kind of concepts that you can try to play with." And, uh, "Here's a video production workflow that you can follow." And all of this stuff was all generated off of that one initial prompt here. Again, it took about 10 minutes to generate, but you can see here's, um, you know, the, the, my worst performing videos get about 43,000 video views. My medium performing, like, I guess the average is around 207,000 views. My top performers get around 824,000 views when I publish videos. And it sort of breaks all that down in text right here. So, it starts off by sort of breaking down, "Here's what your channel's doing now. Here's the analysis of, of how your channel's doing." Um, the performance patterns, uh, the top performer characteristics, it starts to show off like, um, what types of content does better on the channel, research paper, AI news and tools. Actually, I think this is like all AI channels because you can see it's looking at, uh, AI Explained as well and some Two Minute Papers. So, it's looking at other AI related channels and showing like, "This is the type of stuff that does well on those other channels." Puts it in chart form for me, and then it starts to give me like actual, you know, strategies. "Here's an engagement strategy. Here's a title optimization strategy." You can see like it's telling me these keywords are the most effective. So, when "free tool" is in the title, it, the effect score is 9.5. So, videos that have "free tool" in the title tend to do better than anything else. "Tutorial" tends to do pretty good. Um, if I have the words "numbers won't," it seems to do well. All the way down to like "compare" does not as well as others or "historical" doesn't do as well as others. So, it's actually finding keywords that when I use those words in my titles, the videos tend to perform better. Right? So, I'm doing this kind of analysis on my YouTube channel all the time to go, "How do I optimize? How do I improve? How do I get better?" And it's probably one of the reasons my channel continues to to do decently well is because I'm constantly looking for like, "How do I optimize this? How do I make this better?" And these AI tools are are literally the secret. These are these are the keys. These are the tools that I'm using to do this analysis here. Um, you know, thumbnail and visual strategy. It's showing some like effective thumbnail ideas. I don't know if these were AI generated, like if I'm not actually sure if Perplexity generated these or if they found them online, but, um, you know, it shared some examples of of some images that you can use. Gives me, uh, first 15-second strategy I can follow, uh, the, throughout the video, AI content specific tactics, a content calendar strategy. Here's that video production workflow. So, "Create the creative brief, write the script, plan and schedule, shoot the videos, conduct interviews, record voiceovers, edit the video, gather feedback." And it just, it built out this whole workflow of, "Here's the workflow to follow." Then it gave me immediate action steps for, uh, weeks one to two, short-term strategy for month one, long-term optimization for quarter one. And again, all of this was just from this original prompt. That's all I gave it. No additional context. So, that's what Labs does. It's like, "Here's my question," and it becomes like this consultant for you and just gives you all of this information that you would want to know, relate, you know, pertaining to the, the prompt that you gave it.

Yeah, it's so, it's so, it's so good. You know, one of the things that instantly came to mind because one of the questions that I get, uh, from people the most often, or I know that people are just thinking through is like, "What business do I start, right?" or like, "What's the idea? Like, what's the thing that I should do?" And my response is also is always like, "That's a very personal thing. You know, like there's people that are successful in a number of different fields. You kind of have to decide." But a key component in deciding that is,

Um, and it's, it's, it's funny cuz I was having this conversation with my brother a few weeks ago, is you do kind of have to do this analysis of like the competitive landscape,

Right? Viability of a project.

Yeah, 100%. So, like if you're thinking about starting a YouTube channel in the AI space, or you're thinking about starting, I don't know, a skincare line or like an e-commerce brand. It's like before, and I know this cuz this is what I did when I first started. I first tried to start a clothing line 10 years ago and I spent six months doing this was like researching what other, like, what are other clothing lines doing? What's the first product that they're launching? How, what price point? And like, it took weeks to compile all this information. And so the thing that instantly came to mind for me is like, you can now do that process that took weeks,

Of like the competitive landscape, within a few minutes, and it probably does a better job, honestly, than what I would have done.

Exactly.

Yeah. I mean, with with something like Perplexity Labs, you can go and say like, "I'm trying to figure out a new business to start. Uh, here are my interests. I want to make sure it aligns with my interests so I actually enjoy what I do. Help me think of viable business ideas, um, that aligns with at least one of my interests that I just listed off, right?" And it will go and do all of this analysis for you and try to find business models around your interests and, uh, you know, sort of analyze the viability of those. Is there an actual market out there for that product or for whatever ideas it comes up with? And it can do all of that analysis for you in one shot, just with a single prompt.

Yeah, it's so good. And, and, and you know what, cuz one of the things, and I know that I've done this wrong, one of the biggest mistakes that people make, they build a product when there's no demand for it. Like there's no market for it. And so it's like, to your point, it instantly, it's like an instant soul for that because it can tell you like, "Okay, there is actually a demand. There is a market for this. Like companies are already doing this." Yeah. And, and, you know, I think we're in, just, just to speak into that point too, though, um, a slight sort of counterpoint, I guess, not really a counterpoint, but like, right now is a time where it is easier to test products quickly and move on if they don't work, right? If you, if there's a, a, a sort of niche or a product that you want to explore, it's really, really easy right now to create an MVP, a minimum viable product, right? Because you can use AI to code up a, a simple app that solves a small problem. Go and buy some Facebook ads to it. See if people buy it. If people don't buy it, move on to the next thing. Or you can go and use AI to help you write a new newsletter on a specific niche and you go and buy some Facebook or Twitter ads to it. If the newsletter grows and you can see that people are actually interested in this topic, then cool, let's pursue it. If not, let's move on quickly. That, I don't think there's ever been a better time to sort of test and rapidly iterate and see, "Will this work? No. Okay, let's move on to the next thing. Does this work? No. Okay, let's move on." Because it's so much easier, so much faster to create things and sort of like just test it out, test the waters, and, and get a feel for whether or not it's going to be viable. I think it's, it's super easy right now to, to, to sort of test the viability of things.

Yeah, I think, I think it's such a good point and it's, it's interesting that you say this because we just, uh, went past like the 150 mark for like how many episodes we've done, >> and every guest that we've got on the show is like built something successful, like built something phenomenal. And it's interesting because people ask me like, "What's like the common pattern or like, what's the thing that you've learned from interviewing all of these people?" And I would say one of the biggest common traits that I see is that they're constantly, to your point, firing off these little tests, launching these little things here and there, and then the second that one gets like, um, a signal, like it gets, it's an anomaly. It gets more impact, you know, they launch it and it's like they get that bit of that spike to it. There's some sort of metric which is like, it's just out of the ordinary. They go, they go all in on that idea. And so AI and a lot of these tools is making it way easier to do that where like you can get to the, to your point, you can get to the V1, like the first version of your product or business or idea really fast, test it, see if there's something there, and then if there is, you can quickly iterate.

Yeah. Exactly. And get feedback really quick, right? You can, um, you know, get, get input from users really quick, get data really quick using AI on on how things are doing. I just, I think that that iteration process, that that testing process is, it, the, the time to figuring out whether this idea is going to work or not is shrinking. And I, and I think AI can really, really help with that kind of stuff.

Yeah, that's awesome. You know what? Quickly, just before we go to, um, Gemini AI Studio, >> when you interface, so when you went from just using Perplexity to Perplexity Labs, that's like a special section of Perplexity you have to click into or it just will automatically?

Yeah. So down here, there's some options. Um, this is on their Pro plan. So, the Perplexity Labs is, I believe you have to pay their $20 a month Pro plan to use the Perplexity Labs. So, if you're just on the search, this is free. Anybody can search inside of Perplexity, no problem. You know, the thing that I showed you, "best, you know, digital camera," whatever, that's all free to use. But, if you want to use this Labs, it looks like, um, it's on the paid plan. You might get a certain amount on a free plan, right? So, you can see it's got Pro enabled, 49 queries remaining this month. So, when you use Labs, they give you a certain quota.

I think maybe on the free plan, you can use Labs a couple times a month for free. Yeah. Um, I, I, I think there's a certain limit of amount that you can use for free, but I don't know off top of my head exactly what it is.

Okay, cool. That's awesome. Okay, let's quickly show people, uh, Gemini.

Cool. So, Gemini, there's two place. This, this is something that Google's not the best at. Um, but there's two places that you can use Gemini. Uh, there's, you know, gemini.google.com, google.com, which, you know, just looks like a chatbot like ChatGPT. And this one, the only time I ever go to gemini.google.com is if I want to use their deep research. And deep research is kind of similar to what you would see with like, um, like the Labs that we just did, but without the graphs and a whole bunch of like, um, the, the sort of data. It's going to give you more like source information. And it's going to look at a whole bunch

of articles and sort of write an essay for you essentially that you could open in a Google doc. And I find this really valuable if I'm about to do like an interview with somebody, right? Like when I was about to interview uh Deis Hassabus from Deep Mind, I used uh Deep Research and said, "I'm interviewing Demisabus. I want to ask him questions that nobody else has asked him before. Uh, I want to make sure that my interview feels novel and is we're not sort of treading on ground that he constantly treads on already. What should I be asking him? This will go off for like 10 minutes and find all of the information it can about Demis. It will uh, you know, actually watch transcripts from other interviews and find, all right, here's some novel questions that you can potentially ask him. I don't think I asked any of the questions that came spec straight out of Gemini, but it sort of like gave me concepts to lean into when talking to him, right? Like I don't really like the way it worded the questions, but it came up with some good concepts of like here's a topic you can dive into with them. Here's a topic you can dive into with them. And deep research is really really good for that. Like I have a podcast as well called the the Next Wave podcast. And I pretty much do this for every guest that we have on. I have Gemini go and run a deep research on that guest so I can get as much information about that guest as I can to sort of decide what sort of path to take the interview down.

>> That's absolutely awesome for that. Um let me see if I have any uh so this is probably one that I did here. Uh so I I I was at Cisco Live. I was telling you that before we hit record and I was interviewing one of their executives, uh, DJ Sam Path and I actually did some deep research on it and you can actually see as I scroll here how long and how much data this deep research found on DJ before I interviewed him. This is all of the information it pulled in about that specific person. It has information about what they did in the past. Here's all the resources that it found it from. um you know what they did in the past, what they work on at Cisco, what their main initiatives are, uh what they've recently announced. Basically, anything it can find on this person, other interviews they've done, questions they've they've been asked, things like that. And then what's really cool about this is since it's Google, you can just click export to docs.

>> Uh >> and let's see if I click share this page. >> A Google doc for you. It just created a nice Google doc with all of this information with a table of contents. >> And it's all structured. >> Yeah, it's all structured. It all looks nice and clean. And I've got all of this information that um you know I I I could easily read on my iPad or print out or you know do whatever I want to do with it. But this is actually a process that I use every time I'm doing an interview. Again, don't use the question straight out of here, but it'll give you some ideas of here's some novel paths you could take the discussion down that uh maybe this person hasn't talked about too much.

>> Yeah. You know what comes to mind for me? Cuz that's actually like I'm sure for a lot of podcast that's actually like a job role. Like you have a specific person on your team that goes and does research, right? >> And it feels like this just does it. You you can do this on the free plan or is it like a paid version that allows you to do this level of research on Gemini? >> I believe it's similar to Perplexity where there's like a limit like you might get a couple deep researches a month on the free plan but then you need to be on the pro plan to get more.

>> That's that's interesting though. So you're you're saying that for you you actually don't have anyone on your team specifically who just does research. You'll just go to one of these AI tools and that kind of gives you everything. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I mean basically I have so I have two producers. I have a producer that produces the Next Wave podcast and I have a producer that uh produces my YouTube channel with me. So I'm working with them, you know, I do all of this research and then I work with my producers to narrow down like, all right, what topics are we going to lean into? Where are we going to take this? So I still work with another human and we sort of narrow down on what the conversation's going to be or what the video is going to be about or how we're going to like angle it or tell the story or whatever. Um, but the actual research and going and doing all the digging for us, we don't have another role, another person that does that. We use AI to do that and then me and, you know, my my producers sort of figure out what we're going to do with all this information.

>> Interesting. >> So, let me go back here. Um, the So, I mentioned there's two places to use Gemini. You have gemini.google.com, which is the one I just showed you, but the other one is called a studio.google.com. And AI Studio is where I actually use Gemini the most. And this is all free. You can use all of this AI studio stuff. No cost. It's like meant to be like a sort of playground demo area. So if you're a developer, you can test uh the various Gemini models to decide if you want to use their APIs in your software, right? Like that's what it's designed for. It's designed for developers to test these tools out. But the benefit to us normal consumers is we get to play with all the Gemini models for free, even if we have no intention of ever using their APIs. And you can see over on the right hand side, we have access to all of these different Gemini models. Gemini 2.5 Pro, uh Flash, which is a a smaller model that will actually work faster, um but maybe not be quite as smart. Um and then you've got Gemma, which is their open-source models. So, these ones aren't going to be as smart, but theoretically you can like run them locally on your own computer or uh sort of build on top of them, fine-tune them, things like that. But I mostly use the Gemini 2.5 and Gemini 2.5 Pro. And you can see over here we've got this token count. So I mentioned the the the context window earlier uh is a million tokens which roughly is the rule of thumb is about 75% of the token count is how many words you can use. So this is roughly 750,000 words of combined input text and output text that it's going to give back to you. But then we've got, you know, all of these modes that you can turn on. thinking mode, which we've seen with things like uh chat03, where you can actually see it sort of think through the process in real time. You can set a thinking budget, essentially telling it how hard, how long do you want it to think about something before you give it an answer or before it gives you an answer. Um, you can have it actually execute code on behalf on your behalf if you're trying to like actually have it write code and things like that. So, some really really cool stuff. But the majority of what I use this for is to dump in very very very large amounts of text and get information back. And you can even give this like YouTube URLs. So if I was to go to YouTube um and grab, let me see, let me go to like your podcast real quick and grab a recent episode. So, the episodes are fairly long, but if I grab like a shorter one, so that you have like a 10-minute clip here.

>> Yeah, >> if I grab a 10-minute clip. So, here, this is the one I'm grabbing right here. Charging uh $100 an hour is a scam. If I copy this link address and just grab the YouTube URL and then jump back over to AI Studio here, I can paste this in. And you can see that it recognized that it was a YouTube video here.

>> Yeah. Um, you can see that the amount of context that it's using is 191,000 tokens and I can say um, break this video into bullet points of the main information.

>> Is this in is the the way the integr integration is so seamless? This is because it's Google and because it's YouTube. >> Yep, it's Google. It's all directly integrated between the the two tools. um a longer video, let's say it was like an hour and a half long video, it would actually go over the token count because the way the tokens work is it's like 5,000 tokens per minute or I don't remember the exact conversion rate, but like when you start plugging in like hour plus long videos, it will go over the token window. However, you can still grab hour plus long videos if you grab the transcript. So it won't. So what this is actually doing right now is it's not reading the transcript of the video. It's watching the video. It literally is seeing the visual. You can have a video right here that has no speaking on it. There's no audio on it at all and it was a 10-minute slide presentation where you're just clicking through the slides and Google will be able to tell you what that video was about. It's not reading the transcripts. It's literally watching the video and then giving me back what it finds in the video.

>> That's crazy. you if you have like an hour and a half, 2 hour long video where you try to paste it in and it says, "Oh, it's too long. It's over the context window." At that point, you can grab the transcript and have it give you the bullets off the transcript, but obviously it's not getting the extra nuances of the video. So, you can see here it thought for 58 seconds, came back, give me it gave me a bulleted list of everything that was talked about in that video right there. Um I want to show another example because this was a really long interview. Um there was one with Naval Ravocant on Modern Wisdom, right?

>> On Chris Williamson show. >> Yeah. Uh did I I don't know why it's not showing up, but I actually plugged that entire interview in here and asked it to break down the bullet points of everything that was talked about inside of that video. And it did a really good job. When you say you plug it in, you literally just took back to what you did before. Just take the link, put it in there.

>> So, here, let me let me show you um why it doesn't work for longer videos. So, you can see over on the right, you've got this million token context window. Let me go and grab one of your longer interviews here. So, I'm just going to copy this link and I'll paste this in here. This video is an hour and a half long. And you can see that based on the um the the length of the video, it's going to use 1.5 million tokens, right? So that's over my token window. It won't let me submit the it won't let me submit it at all here because it's over the token count. So the way it works is like it it uses a certain amount of tokens per minute. Once you get into the longer videos, it can no longer watch the video for you. However, if I jump back over to YouTube, um, on this same video here,

>> you'll grab the transcript, I'm assuming. >> Yeah, I can actually go down here, grab this transcript, and because I have because the transcript is less than 750,000 words, it will actually let me grab the transcript here.

>> Let's see. >> And so that's what you did with the Chris Williamson and Naval >> interview. transcript and put that in. Okay, that makes sense. >> Yeah. So, if I I'm I'm going to remove the timestamps here and then I can grab all of this transcript here like this. And then I'll just copy this. We'll jump back over to our chat window here. And then if I remove this and then paste in this entire transcript instead, we'll see the token count update. See, it's only actually using 17,000 tokens as opposed to 1.5 million tokens u when I post it paste in the transcript. And that's because it's not actually needing to watch the video on your behalf anymore. It's just taking in the text from the video. And then I can ask the same kinds of questions.

>> Yeah, >> I really wanted to find that Naval one that I did. Um but I'm not seeing it in here. Oh, I think this is it. So yeah, this is this is the Naval one. Here you can see I took this is the transcript from that uh Naval interview with uh on Modern Wisdom here. Really really really really long.

>> It's like two and a half hours, three hours long I want to say. Yeah, you can see it used 59,000 tokens and then it just gave me a bulleted list of here's all the truths because the the episode was called like 51 truths uh you need to learn now or something like that. I don't remember exactly what it was and it literally just here's all the truths that were mentioned in that video. Here's the key key takeaways I can take from that video. Um, yeah. So, I mean that's what I use Gemini for these really, really, really long documents, long text. Nothing is better than Gemini right now as sort of distilling it down into bullets because nothing else can take this large of a text and actually understand it.

>> Yeah. You know what? We've showed people so much and and thank you by the way for being so open with that and literally showing what you're doing.

>> Um, but here's where I wanted to end because I think one of the things that's really important for me personally is I want people to be able to go and take action after this, right? Because we've all done that thing where it's like so easy to watch videos like this and get inspired and energetic and think of all the use cases and then you go back and you do exactly what you were doing before. Right. Right. And so let's say that someone's watched this episode and we're now heading into the weekend and they have some free time. Um if you just had to give them one thing to do, one thing to focus on, which is like if you do this, you're going to see some impact in your life or in your business or whatever you're building. And that's going to be kind of like the first step

>> to maybe who knows one day they're using it as much as you're using it. >> Give me what would be that one thing that one piece of like that challenge that you would give someone listening of like okay just start here and everything else will kind of just follow behind that.

>> I would say so for me again chat GPT is probably like the number one that I would probably start with. I would go to chat GPT, use chat GPT40. And one of the things that I like to do that I think is a really really valuable exercise is literally journal into chat GPT. You can do it through voice mode. You can do it through typing. And just just talk to it. Go in there and say, "Here's what I'm doing in my business. Here's the things that are working well. Here's the things that aren't working well. Here's the things that are going good in my life outside of my business. Here's what's working well. Here's what's not. here's what I'm grateful for. Here's what's frustrating me right now. And literally just brain dump. Just journal and get all of your thoughts out about business, about life, about what's going on in the world. Uh the things that are causing anxiety for you right now, the things that you could wish you can do more of right now. Literally just do that sort of like unload process into chat GPT and see how it responds. And I think you'll be pretty blown away with the insights that it comes back with because it will come back with insights around like here's how you can go do more of the things that you want to be doing. Here's how you can automate, systematize, get the things off your plate that you want to be doing less of. Here's a reframing of the things that make you anxious or that um you don't really like thinking about or don't like doing. Just getting that response based on you just brain dumping and unloading everything that's going on in your brain and seeing what advice it can give you, I think is like such an unlock for people. They'll go and do that and they'll just be like, "Holy crap, this AI knows me. It gets me. It understands like what I want to be doing and it understands how I can actually achieve that." And I feel like that is like the the the first layer of the onion that you can peel back that's going to open your eyes to, oh, okay, this is actually useful in my life.

>> Yeah, I love it. You know, as you were speaking, I was thinking um we can call it like the the Matt Wolf, the the wolf challenge. Um just like write that first journal entry or even to your point, just speak it out loud into chat GPT. that first gen journal entry about your life, your business, whatever the thing is that you're looking to see a change in. Um, I think that's awesome.

>> Absolutely. >> Matt Wolf, thank you so much, man. I appreciate this. >> Yeah, this has been a lot of fun. Thanks for having me.

>> Okay, so if you enjoyed this episode, you're going to absolutely love what we did with this one right here. Click here.

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