Transcription
This week on the Andrew Yang podcast, if you trace the numbers, you see that there's been like a multi-decade shift towards mega corps and certain actors and certain geographies. Even there, there is no recourse because AI is going to create a super vortex of data, money, and AI itself. Um, that's going to hoover up more and more of the value, and they're going to be folks that benefit from that, but that number of folks is going to be smaller and smaller, and then most people are going to be looking up being like, "What the hell happened?" Right?
[Music]
Happy summer 2025. I'm here with Zach, uh, who's dressed for the summer. My pants blend with the chair, but it's good to be back, folks. Uh, we were joking that he looks like one of those camouflaged characters when he walks out of the wall. I'm dressed for summer. You're in your uniform, but it's cool. My uniform—uniform years ago, so I'm partial to it.
So, welcome back, Zach.
Um, good to be back.
People always excited to hear from you. But first, we're going to do a bunch of Q&A from our listeners. And thank you for keeping up with us. Hopefully, these questions are interesting, uh, for everyone.
Yeah, we get a lot of good reviews when I come on. And I I don't I don't think it's me. I don't take that as a personal compliment. I think it's because you have a lot of fans and you get to be the subject of these interviews. You know what I mean? Instead of you interviewing someone else. It's you, Zach.
Okay.
It's all me.
All right. We got questions, or you got questions, we got answers. Um, I paraphrased, or our producer Daniel paraphrased a lot of these because some of you guys write long ones. Okay, this is Kaden from Colorado. Kaden asks, "My name is Kaden. I'm a junior high student working on a research project about the American dream. How do things like income inequality affect the American dream? And how do you think Gen Z and millennials see the American dream differently?"
I would even be curious about boomers and Gen X, too.
Well, thank you for the question. Um, I think that income inequality and the American dream are very, very tied together because the American dream generally, in my mind, uh, is about kids like you, uh, living a better life than their parents, uh, and most of that is money. Now, there are some aspects of the American dream, too. When when people hear the term American dream, some people think something like home ownership or uh, white picket fence, you know, like a a little plot of your own. And my friend Scott Galloway has been pounding the the pavement saying, "Look, we are really shafting young people, um, like you, unfortunately," Caden, right?
Yeah.
And he's right. Uh, I was saying the same thing when I was running for president back in 2019-2020, and it's gotten a lot worse since then. Uh, and one of the things I was making a case for was that AI was going to make things a lot worse for the average American, which I think is happening as we speak. Uh, that there is now data that indicates that AI is eating entry-level white-collar work, and big companies are hiring fewer recent college graduates. So you you have to kind of have your head in the sand to not think, okay, like something dramatic has to happen if we're going to actually refashion the American dream.
And I mentioned Scott because um, last year at TED I gave a TED talk on how to fix democracy, which was number seven. And then Scott was number one with how young people is shaft, how young people are getting shafted in the US economy, right? And uh, when we were at TED, Evelyn was there, and Evelyn was like, "Oo, like people are going to love his talk." And they be like, "Oh, yours is fine, too." I was like, "Oh, you know, but it was interesting seeing Scott's talk because a lot of the data was actually stuff that I was talking about for sure," Um, a few years ago, and it's just gotten a lot, lot worse.
So, I think part of this question is trying to distinguish between millennials and Gen Z uh and their interaction with this. And so, Gen Z has a big advantage that you guys have more time. Um, all things being equal, having more time is good because you, you know, longer time to generate wealth and
Yeah.
Yeah. Longer time to um to benefit from various things. Um, will things be rosier for Gen Z than millennials? Like gosh, I really don't know. I'm Gen X, and there have been stories that have come out recently. Um, I will say like, you know what, it happens to us all. Do you You're a millennial. I'm an elder millennial. And when you see one of those clickbaity stories about millennials, do you click?
Sometimes I I tend to click on Gen X type stories cuz I'm like, Gen X, what we're supposed to be doing, right? So apparently Gen X has had it um not so great for a number of reasons, like we graduated and there was a recession at the time and then trials and tribulations where it's like it's like me, a millennial, watching the third once-in-a-lifetime economic collapse occur in my lifetime, like like things like that. But yeah, we've had a lot of 2008, Trump, we've got World War II was trending this, you know, a couple weeks ago. Like there's a lot I I don't foresee things being any better for Gen Z, but at least you have some time for something to break, right? And um I I'm of the belief, like I'm a numbers guy. I think the market-based economy is going to get grimmer and grimmer um for people generally, uh for young people in particular, um because costs have crept up. Your opportunities aren't keeping pace, and then now the opportunities are going to get sledged by AI. There are all of these stories about how coders uh are losing their jobs and tech companies are both hiring less and and stealth laying people off, and these were the most secure sought-after jobs and fields like you know, last year, more or less. In my opinion, the only way to reverse these trends that are happening in the economy um comes via the government, and I'm someone who loves entrepreneurship, loves enterprise, loves people getting out there and and uh building things and and doing awesome stuff. But um, if you trace the numbers, you see that there's been like a multi-decade shift towards um mega corps and certain actors and certain geographies, even uh, and there there is no recourse because AI is going to create a super vortex of um data, money, and AI itself, um, that's going to hoover up more and more of the value, and they're going to be folks that benefit from that, but that number of folks, folks is going to be smaller and smaller, and then most people are going to be looking up being like, what the hell happened, right?
Uh, you know, like now the trucks drive themselves, so they don't stop at the truck stop. So what happened to the the people who used to work at the truck stop? Like there's all there's going to be all sorts of very dystopian stuff going. I was thinking about, and we've talked about this on this podcast about men and the plight of men and what's going on with masculinity in the United States right now and globally. But it's I was thinking about like, so life happens, right? Uh, and and I I say this said like sometimes bad things happen. People get sick, your kids are doing XYZ, uh, you you go through a tough patch in your life, and and I've been fortunate if if I was struggling with something or life is happening, I've usually had a job at the time to like pour into or focus on or keep building, etc. And when these economic if the economic path forward isn't there and life is happening, men tend to handle it very poorly.
Yeah.
Um, and it's it's something like what can the government do? The government needs to to set this economic vision for the country, and I don't want to say create jobs—not the answer—but like a a let's call it ecosystem where jobs are being created if that makes I mean, it's one reason why various um administrations have been focusing on creating manufacturing jobs in the US. And by the way, not coincidentally, two-thirds of manufacturing jobs are occupied by men.
Y uh, and like you said, if you have a job that's sustaining you and in some cases distracting you, then you know you can handle ups and downs in your personal life in a different way than you're going through some stuff personally. And then you like also, you know, like you know, you don't have a paycheck coming in, etc., etc., right?
Um, I I I totally agree, and and the data shows that men deal with idleness. Um, they're not well.
Yeah.
Yeah. Not well. Women, you're good at it because like the observation I make is that you're never um that idle, like unemployed women volunteer more, do more things, you know, go back to school at higher levels. Um, men much less.
So, do you think is the silver lining with all the chaos we're seeing right now, both economically, politically, is the silver lining that uh will inevitably get to universal basic income because of this? Like somewhat faster, not as fast as we wanted obviously when we ran, but um I think the case is getting stronger all the time because uh AI is right displacing um so much work. Um, and Daario Amadeday, the CEO of Anthropic, came clean and was like, "Yo, we're going to get rid of the entry-level white-collar jobs, so you should probably tax us more." Um, and uh, and Daario and Anthropic are among the more conscientious actors in the space. I think I think we we do get there. Uh, and even the Trump administration is starting to make gestures of a particular type around giving every baby a thousand bucks. Um, I think there is an appetite for for some pro um like uh child tax credit um measures. You wind up at at universal basic income, like uh I always thought you'd wind up there either the easy way or the hard way. Um I I think right now it's a little bit the hard way.
No, I I think it's we're we're trending towards the harder way.
Yeah.
Um, and that makes me deeply sad because some of the things that are happening out there, um, you know, it's like trying to put toothpaste back in the tube or like, you know, like like when things get out that you it's hard to reverse it. And one of the things that's out that I I suppose we can talk about is um political violence. I mean, the the shooting of the Minnesota state legislators and their spouses, uh, the deaths of uh, you know, one of them and their their spouse. I mean, it's really, really horrific. And that um is going to uh like it's going to um put a chill uh in in our u politics. Um, and the the question is is this the precipitating event where people actually decide to say, okay, whatever we've been doing is not going well. We have to to like ease the rank or ease up on the rhetoric, reduce the polarization. Unfortunately, most no one is very optimistic about that in part because our current president is one of the progenitors of inflammatory rhetoric and whatnot. I mean, they made a very positive statement about how horrifying these deaths were, the these shootings, right? But uh, no one imagines that uh this is like you know a complete transformation um because there's like a a very, very um hostile atmosphere.
Thank you, listeners. Please make sure to like and subscribe, and if you have any questions, send them to mailbagandrewyang.com, and we'll do our best to answer them. Thank you.
Do you order food at home? home. Do you live in the Northeast? Have you tried Wonder? If you haven't, you are missing out. My friend Mark Lori has started a company that is optimized for food delivered fast, fresh, and delicious to your home. Licensed recipes from celebrity chefs. You can order from multiple restaurants in the same order, so it's ideal for families. I order from Wonder a little bit too often, honestly. But it's a game-changer. So, feel free to give it a try. Go to wonder.com, and if you use code Andrew104, you will get $30 off your first two orders, and I'll get a little bit of free food. Andrew104 at wonder.com. Give it a shot.
I'm curious your thoughts on this. Um, so yeah, we're we're recording this a little earlier than this dropped, but but you know, so the the protests in LA were making a lot there are a lot of protests around the country, but the ones in LA were making the most news, I think. Um, there was a video going around that was showing Yeah, I I don't know the truth of this. I don't know the average age of the protester, but there was a video going around was showing that the the protesters were older in age. Um, it wasn't what tends to be a lot of protesters, like young people with time on their hands or pissed about their economic future. We got a lot of older protesters. Certainly a lot of these. Are you I'm curious your thoughts on this because I think one of the things I've seen with Millennial and Gen Z is that they're somewhat they're getting numb to this. They're, you know, they had the Obama wave, you had the Bernie wave, you had the Trump wave, etc. But then you start to see like, okay, meet the old meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Like we keep getting these political movements that and nothing actually fundamentally changes. But older folks are still in some ways out there, you know, protesting, fighting the good fight. I'm curious if you have seen a generational difference in terms of how people are getting politically active.
Well, you know, I I'd be fascinated about the response. You know, I think you left one out which was uh George Floyd.
Oh, yeah.
I mean, I left out a bunch. You had co
Yeah.
Yeah. I mean, there were a lot of things. And I think one of the insights that some young people might have is that this popular will is um getting dissipated by our dysfunctional political system in a particular way. Yeah. It's like let's say a bunch of people come out and advocate for a particular policy. Let's call it uh, you know, common-sense gun regulation, which you know I mean that was that was a very, very avid protest.
Yep.
And then you think and say, okay, what was the policy that resulted? And everyone looks up and it's like none. And the reason why there was none is that legislation in that case is controlled by like a you know set of legislators that unless you change what happens in a Republican primary in a red state, they just never vote for it. And so you can do whatever you'd like, but if you don't change that dynamic, you're sort of wasting your time. And thi this is, by the way, the subject of my TED talk, which was like, hey, if you really want to change things, you got to change the the incentive structure, the mechanic, the the plumbing. And and one of the biggest fictions in American life now that some people might be seeing through is that a a popular demonstration, our popular will is going to all of a sudden wake our legislators up and be like, "Oh my gosh, wait, you guys are really upset about this. Like, let's let's do something about it." Um, you know, so if you can take down the list and be like, "Hey, what was the result?" I mean, there there's something dark, and I I read a story which I happen to agree with was that um that Trump is thrilled by the protests. Yeah. because he's going to look at them and say, "Oo, you know, it's like seem very rambunctious, very disorderly, like let let me maybe have to impose uh law and order and then the spectacle and the, you know, uh tug-of-war for the National Guard in LA and in other places. And some people have observed and said, "Wait a minute, this administration is doing a lot of unpopular things that are probably going to make them underwater for the midterms. Why do they seem so cocky about it?" And then the answer is like maybe they think that they can cancel elections in certain places, like maybe they think they can you know so like there there and then someone looks at me and it's like, no, no, it's impossible, like is it like you know um so to me like the the more energy out there uh in this um environment, my personal take on it is that we're being manipulated, we're being set up for sure, and that you have to kind of get savvy about, okay, What do I actually want to see happen? How can we make it happen? And one of the the secrets I've been clued into from my friends in DC is that if you yell at them to make something happen, you'll often reduce the chances of it happening because they because they cannot capitulate to your yelling because then it makes them seem quote-unquote weak or soft and like like the the only way to get something done in real life is to be like, you know, whisper, whisper, nudge, nudge, and then they do it something very and then like no one even gives them credit. um like because and then if you give them credit then they'll be like, oh, I had nothing had nothing to do with that. The earned child tax credit is a perfect example. This thing goes under the radar, eliminates child poverty, gets taken away, brings child poverty back, etc., etc., and you don't hear a lot of press about it. You know what I mean? I don't know. I mean our you know our friends uh um are working on that and um you know one so one of the dangers in this political environment is and this is something I learned too in a very particular way. It's like I've got a certain amount of energy around me. Some people obviously very um motivated and and galvanized by something I do. But then there's some other people that might be like moved the other direction for whatever reason because of like you know that's true of just about every actor and in this and so like you know it's like again you don't want to to tell people not to um express themselves but um I I do think that some people are wising up. I have a rule of thumb. My rule of thumb is if it makes me mad, I'm not thinking clearly about it when it comes to politics. Like if it's if you're reading an article and you're getting all pissed off, you want to fight, etc. They're probably doing that intentionally. There's probably some for frankly like media forces or company for whatever it is looking to incentivize you to get all pissed off and show up at a protest instead of the real problem which is plumbing and less sexy or etc., etc. Or or shoot man I mean we made our stand. It's like the real problem um was Joe Biden not having a primary in 2024.
Yeah.
Like if you wanted to prevent all this, have a primary.
Yep.
Um, and then you, me, Dean Phillips, uh, the gang were there in 2024. I mean, if if there was a time to protest, that was the time. That was the time to protest. That, you know, back when it was like the DNC being like, "No, nothing to see here. Nothing to see here."
Do you think it's laziness? Do you think like a lot of people didn't like were happy with like not paying attention enough to think like Joe thinking Joe was still put together and could be Trump again. You know what I mean? And I don't mean laziness like we just don't want to think about politics that often. It
No, it it's it's in my opinion um tribalism and manipulation as opposed to outcomes. So you, me and Dean were focused on outcomes. We're like, "Hey, I kind of want, you know, America circa 2025 to have like a certain type of president um with maybe certain types of outcomes from people." Um, we were focused on the people and the results. And so we're like, well, clearly the path to get there is not run this one.
Yeah.
Not not run daughtering Joe who's going to hand it back to Trump. You guys should run someone else. Um, but most of the actors, particularly in the political uh media context, aren't focused at all on what's going to happen to ordinary people, right? Like they're focused on it's like, oh, yeah. Or this is the president, president says this, then like it's like, oh, you know, you're going to break up the party. It's like am I really? Or maybe that's a good thing, like you know, or you know, or it's like you know that the party party loves to lose the the and so and then even now you're seeing like that there's uh you know like the paying of consultants to like learn how to talk to to men. I mean, it's God pay us, but it's so like that there's like this real distance
Between people and outcomes. Uh, and so if you were focused on people and outcomes, you'd have a totally different approach.
By the way, I would level the same thing, you know, to Trump's Republican party. It's like they're not—not they're not focused on people and outcomes. They're focused on um, appearance, executive control, seemingly. Yeah. Like vibes, control, profiting. Yeah. Um, you know, loyalty. Um, and they they do a great job of um, making those phone calls, by the way, and being like, "Hey, get on board with our appointee or it's going to be curtains for you." I mean, like that that stuff is definitely happening.
Yeah. [Music] This podcast is sponsored by Helix Sleep. I've always been someone who figured, you know what? If I'm going to spend up to a third of my life sleeping, maybe I should invest in a nice mattress. And Helix Sleep has taken my household by storm. It's the best mattress in the house, according to my boys, and was not even made with them in mind. Why? Because I took the freaking sleep quiz. They matched me with the Helix Dawn firm mattress and wow. And I got to say, Helix Sleep has helped me sleep better and somehow my kids sleep better, too. It's the mattress that will actually be a difference maker. And if it doesn't fit your bill, then you can just send it right back. I wanted to partner with Helix because I actually use this mattress and I genuinely believe in it. Go to helixsleep.com/yang for 27% off sitewide. Exclusive for listeners of the Andrew podcast. That's helixsleep.com/yang for 27% off sitewide. Make sure you enter our show name after checkout so they know we sent you. Helixsleep.com/yang. [Music]
What's the next question? Let's do the next question. Uh, that was a very long question. You got us going. This next question is from Dan. Dan says, "Ma has been able to take advantage of online personalities that shape people's thoughts and beliefs to lean their way. What do you think those who feel the MAGA ideological stance is bad must do to build an online presence that rivals what they have? Does there also need to be a counter to the many radio personalities at lean MAGA as well?"
So this this is the the liberal influencer um, question argument argument. Yeah. And so here's my perception of it. You had a a democratic aligned media industrial complex that consists um, of among others um, New York Times, MSNBC, CNN, uh, most of the major publications post. Um, yeah. Uh, a and then you had this internet counterculture um, arise that is just anti-institutional. And so one of the traps for Democrats is to be like, "Hey, we're like business as usual institutions, educated, coastal, um, we've got it going on. Listen to us. We're very professional. We wear suits, uh, etc., etc." And then the um, YouTube crew generally is going to be comedian, countercultural, inquisitive, like what the heck is going on there. It's just, you know, obviously because if you live in a world of um, establishment media and you're looking to build an audience, then you would build something on the opposite side. The one of the biggest problems to me for the Democratic party is that there were a lot of this um, alternative media crew that in my opinion was genuinely up for grabs like thinking that they all lean right or whatnot. It's like eh, you know, do they like now did they end up for the most part going with Trump uh in this past cycle? Yeah, most of them did. Um, and there were a number of reasons for that in my opinion like you know, big reason was the Democratic party um, was not in my opinion making a great case and hypocrisy and lack of authenticity and things like that.
Yeah. Yeah. And and not showing up for you know, like more than a certain number of interviews or whatnot. Um, don't get me triggered. Yeah. And then there was some real outreach in the MAGA crew where they'd show up and be like hey like let's make friends. Let's do this. Yeah. So for folks who are non-mega like you know and I'm I'm obviously in in that universe. Um, to me it would be identifying various voices who are naturally like like non non-mega not trying to create them um, would be you know, point number one. Um, there there's a guy who comes to mind for me in in this conro his name's Pablo Torre who used to be in ESPN and so he's like you know, very non-mega in my opinion and one thing he said to me um, when when I got together with him recently was he was like you know, who follows me young men. Yeah. Um, you know, like exactly the kind of audience that we're talking about Democrats like oh how do we talk to young men? It's like you just freaking give Pablo a call or like you know, go go see his programming and see what he's doing. What what you have to do if you're the Dems, my opinion, is accept first that a lot of these folks are alternative media because there's an alternative. And so they'll end up being kind of anti-institutional. And then you have to make the case to the anti-institutional folks like, look, you might not love politics, you might not love all the stuff, but like you're certainly not on board with them. So like, let's do more together. Uh, let's find ways to work together. Part of it is that the Democratic establishment is very very riskaverse and does not want to play with anyone who's even somewhat borderline.
Yes. Um, they don't have an expansionist uh approach. That is the right answer. I agree big time.
Well, so I think I mentioned this on this podcast before. I went, you know, Harvard University does a campaign manager summit at the end of a presidential campaign. And so I was the probably the lowest person on that invite list with uh, as running running Dean's campaign. But I got to go to this thing. Long shot. Wrote a book about the campaign and that was his ticket to Harvard. So I go to this thing after the 2024 election and generally I was um, you know, so you have the you know, the campaign managers from all of them but then you had the campaign managers from the Trump team and and the uh, Kla Harris team and I was very dis—the Trump team I would say whether you like him or not their team was wildly competent wildly intentional had a plan executed the plan uh, I was deeply disappointed with the not competence because I thought they were you know, generally competent people but the lack of sort of creative thinking and innovation uh, from the from the Democratic party. So, I didn't get much from them in terms of things they said, but one of them said something really interesting about because this question came up from the students um, because they did like an open part of it too with with Harvard students or Harvard guests and they asked, "Hey, the right is like killing us on alternative media. What can the left do?" And the guy said something really interesting. He's like, and this ties to the righteous mind, Jonathan Tate's book before, the the most recent one. Um, he's like the thing is that the right wants to do sort of anti-establishment. They're going to if you're voting if you're a Republican you lean that way you're going to be leaning towards anti-establishment alternate voices distrusting sort of government or institutions. And the left tends to crave that institution and want that trusted voice. And what the point he was making is like the problem is not somewhat um, the lack of voices. There are there's some that's some of it. But the main one he was saying was that if you're a Democrat and you lean that way, you actually want that institutional voice to tell me what the truth is. You want the New York Times be like to say this is my reality. You want some sort of entity saying this is what just happened. And the problem is particularly younger generations and younger men who may skew a little right or few more moderate or a little less Democrat. They're like antirusting in these institutions and most young people are very anti-establishment because they've been b beat and burned by all so many institutions. So many have failed them and so they're craving a new trusted voice of truth.
By the way, even the fact that it was hosted by Harvard, Harvard's like the ultimate institution and by the numbers two-thirds of Americans aren't going to be college grads. And so if you're—One of the things I always say when Democrats ask me this, and they do ask me this a fair amount. I was like, "Look, just put yourself in the shoes of a man um, who did not attend college and just imagine your reaction to all of this stuff cuz if you're a man who did not graduate from college, you don't necessarily think the institutions are exactly looking out for you."
Correct. And then like you said, or like this person said, it's like Democrats crave like an institutional halo and the fact that Harvard was the host of this thing is like, you know, I mean again, yeah. Yeah. that they they have the um, the halo and the institutions are losing. I mean this is a time of institutional mistrust.
Yes. So um, so to Dan's question, what you would really do and the Democrats in my opinion right now don't have this approach is like what they would do is they'd throw their arms around people who are not institutional but also like are not team MAGA.
Mhm. You know what I mean? like it it would be like that and there's like a whole set of figures that fall into this realm, but like that that set of figures doesn't necessarily want to mix it up with politics uh in the in the first place. Um, and so you'd have to really, you know, I mean, you'd have to do some work. Yeah. um, because like that these those folks now an exception one of the names that popped in my head it's like Mark Cuban to me is like not a Democrat or a Republican he's an independent but he um, the Democrats threw their arms around him were like hey Mark can you do stuff and Mark tried and I appreciated a great deal and I thought it was great but I mean you know, just use myself as a direct example it's like I'm a non-Trump independent figure I'd openly endorsed Kamala because I don't think that Trump is the answer um, and the Democrats wouldn't touched me with a 10-ft pole because I'd said so many mean things about Joe Biden. And by the way, like I actually got that message um, through various channels. It's like uh, I had quote-unquote crossed the line so that the Kamala campaign couldn't use me because the Kamala team was the Biden team.
Yep. Um, yes, you know, and and so I'm going to ask anyone listening to this, it's like, hey, what what am I trying to do? Am I trying to enforce particular guidelines or am I trying to win? And I'm not saying that Andrew Yang was like, you know, going to transform the the race or any of that jazz, but you know, I'm clearly like, you know, additive. So, if you're in their position and your only goal is to win and deliver for the American people, be like, look, he said mean things about our guy, whatever. Pass the pass. Let's go cuz he's he clearly does not want Trump. Um, but the the Democrats are much more concerned with their culture maintenance and enforcement um, than they should be.
Yes. You know, it's like if you're just like, "Hey, my goal is to win. What? You said something mean. I don't care what." I mean, heck, I'm gonna take it to the next level. And this is something I'd also said. Take RFK Jr. um, into the fold. Like, you know, you'd spent months sticking to that guy, like trying to, you know, man had a genuine following. If your goal is to win, be like, "Hey, RFK, like let's get to the bottom of why kids are sick together." The Democrats would not even take his call. And you can think what you think about RFK. Like it's like it's like the man had a following and he had a message. He had a message. He had a message that most people like. Yeah. And your goal is to win.
By the way, too, and so one of the things I I'd actually, you know, and so like, you know, one side wouldn't take his call. The other side was like, "Sure, come on in." So, like, what's the, you know, what's the move? The I think it's three things, man. I think the Dem doing three things. One is proactively seeking out and promoting these sort of alternative voices. So that's number one, which I would include John Stewart, Bill Maher, Scott Galloway, I'd include you. Like there are folks Barry Weiss and the free press. Um, that's a very big up the middle.
Yes. Where it's it skews left. Um, it can be very liberal. Like I think Scott and Caris's pivot podcast like goes pretty liberal, but it's rational. It's authentic. You may disagree with them, but they come at it like real human beings. Like that's um, I think that's one. Two is I think your mainstream media outlets got to get more real. And that may never happen, but um, well, mainstream media is shriveling and dying.
It's right. And but there's there's certain level of authenticity and honesty that they've been lacking and self-reflection. And then they could do it. You know, they have the platforms. They're still real. Um, at least in terms of their halo. And then I would say three is you have to you have to win back the folks that you lost. And that's not an impossible task. And what I mean by that is is Joe Rogan was a Bernie Sanders liberal.
Yeah. Um, uh, Andrew Schultz, I think he leans right, but Bernie Sanders was on there and laid out the entire like sort of leftist populist agenda. And Andrew Schultz essentially agreed with all of it. Like there these folks are branded as like alt-right and crazy MAGA. And that's not actually true. Um, if you listen to them for a couple minutes, honestly. By the way, too, it's like I someone asked me about the Democrat and I was like, look, just like watch their programming for 3 months, like get a sense of it. And most Democrats like I don't want to do that and be like then it's then it's already over.
Yeah. See you later. You have a sense of their program cuz I I like a lot of the these folks and they were attracted to Bernie because he was he was anti-institutional in part. Like they would have and most of them will say like I'll have a Democrat on any time and the de—like that's the thing the Dems don't have many don't have a vision. They're offended by the messenger too much and they're riskaverse. They're like look I don't need to get those people. I just need to like, you know, win my uh internal party machinations. And I I'll give Gavin Newsom credit. I don't love Gavin Newsom. I got plenty of thoughts on this guy, but him doing um, he did a podcast with uh, Steve Bannon. No, Charlie, what's his name? Kirk. Charlie Kirk. Like great, you know, like go toe-to-toe with these guys. If you believe that we should be in charge, you got to get in a freaking fire. It drives me nuts we don't do it. Like Liz Warren, if she's so passionate about her stuff, should be on that stuff. She should be going. No, I don't think I'm not sure she can handle it, which is probably the problem. No, it's just like not a good fit. And this is like the it's like at this point a lot of folks really like have their tribal lane.
Yeah, I agree. And and then there's some there are some folks whoever, you know, is the Democratic party nominee, one of their responsibilities is going to be to try and expand it. The problem is that um, expanding it may or may not help you within the Democratic primary itself. And so there's going to be this there's going to be this like hey like I gotta get the nomination and then after I get the nomination it's like oh hope you chose the right person who can then there are Democrats vote in primaries a lot that get offended by Joe Rogan or offended by the and that is part of the problem too and we get back to this all the time or just you have to fix primary system man.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's why you know if you have an independent primary you'd have like a different different story. Maybe vote on your smartphone.
Yep. Mobilevoting.org. Mobile voting big flavor. Summer is here everyone. And where do you not necessarily want to be slaving over a hot stove cooking food? That's where Factor comes in. Factor's chef-crafted, dietitian-approved meals are ready to eat. Just heat them up in a few minutes and you will be eating fresh, healthy food in no time. I'm not much of a cook. I enjoy getting my meals. It takes a lot of consideration out. I don't like to think very much. There are a number of things I don't like to do. And when you get a Factor meal, you know, it's going to be tasty, healthy. My favorite is the horseradish encrusted chicken. And I have to say, like you can tell the meals are healthy even as they taste great. You know that sweet spot? That's what these meals hit. Get started at factormeals.com/yang50 off and use code yang50 off to get 50% off plus free shipping on your first box. That's code yang50 off at factormeals.com/yang50 off for 50% off plus free shipping. factormeals.com/yang50 off. [Music]
Olivia in Illinois. By the way, Dan, thank for the question. Good question. Olivia in Illinois. Oh, here we go. We we have we gave a little bit of this, but we can dive in a bit more. Do you have any thoughts on Trump's use of ICE and the recent protests around the country? Why do you think Congress is allowing this to happen instead of reforming the immigration system? And I I maybe I'll give this context for this question is that outside of the the current part primary dynamics too like there's some other bigger things at play but besides the I mean the the ice raids make me super sad. Um, and but part of the the issue is that um, that they're meant to be spectacle in part. I think I saw the numbers where it's like like the actual numbers of deportations may or may not be that dissimilar from some of the things that have gone on, but it's just that they like they they do it in a way that's much more inflammatory. Yeah. And the press is going crazy over and the press is going crazy. Um, now I'm someone's like and really this sums it up in my opinion. There's like a Missouri community where uh, like a like a Hong Kong woman's gotten deported like mother of three and everyone's like Carol you deported Carol like what the heck cuz Carol hadn't done anything like technicality and so the the folks in Missouri it was very very Trumpy community were like look we voted to expel the gangs not Carol correct and so that that's what I think most Americans would be comfortable with is like if you show up and you're like hey violent criminal um uh deportation time everyone would be like, "Thank goodness like should have happened a while ago." If you just start grabbing random families, uh then it's like, "What the heck?" Uh you know, like that that's um and then you make a spectacle of it. And so the the ice raids make me super sad. Um, the protests very very you know, like natural, heartfelt human because you you know you see plenty of reason to protest.
Yeah. Yeah. being like uh you know like torn apart and thrown into vans for for like strange like technicalities or you know years long like you know non people with mask and pull off the like come in and pull people off the street like that's not what frankly the rational middle was voting for this past cycle and so the yes and so the the question is about whether what Congress uh could and should do. Um, so what Congress could and should have done years ago under, by the way, you know, who recommended this, a guy named Marco Rubio, who's currently our secretary of state, was bipartisan immigration reform with a path to like multi-year path to citizenship for folks like years and years, paying taxes, like you know, keep your nose clean, etc., etc. Like missed that opportunity over the last gosh, like decade plus, and then you wind up in this situation. And unfortunately like this Congress passing something along those lines would be like way way beyond the pale because Trump ran on like a you know, I mean he'll say like on a on a fairly like harsh version and then like the um, MAGA Congress will be like hey this is what the American people voted for. I I I always have been under the belief that mass deportations um, are uh totally unfeasible and impractical and also would be like vastly destructive. Uh, and I was trying to even imagine what proportion of Los Angeles residents are undocumented or like restaurant workers and it's
Like it'd be very, very substantial, to a point where you know, if you imagine what wholesale enforcement looks like, it it would be incredibly destructive. But it's not just that community. I mean, we're in New York. It would be incredibly destructive. Most cities. This, to me, is like, um, it's like a very dark sign of the times. And it's less about problem-solving and more about appearance.
And that's one of the things too about some of like the ICE, um, and immigration actions have been like, "Hey, let's just goose the numbers." And if someone shows up and it's like, "Oh, technically I could get you. You're undocumented," it's like, "Have I done anything?" Doesn't matter. Like, let's just do it. And so, you know, one of the things that's interesting about this to me is that, in my opinion, a lot of Americans voted for Trump because they were anti-unfailing bureaucracy. And then what they really have is like this unfailing bureaucracy that's applying rules in a way that folks are like, "Wait a minute." Like, what what the f-- like there's like no judgment being employed here? Why are you like why are you deporting Carol, the like, you know, beloved mother of three? Like like you know, like that doesn't make any sense. Like you know, we we should-- and it's like, "Oh, it's unfailing bureaucracy." It's like, who knows, there's some rule and like and then you could tell too that they make it deeply personal sometimes when they're like, "Oh, you know, we really don't like this person, this actor, this firm; they ran afoul of us, so let's go deep after them." So, in that sense, they're not an unfailing bureaucracy because occasionally they'll be like, "Oh, we've got an enemy's punch list; we're going to go after you," but then other folks it's like, "Hey, you know, rules are rules," um, even though the rule doesn't make sense.
This is a classic-- I don't know if I've ever talked about this-- this, to me, is a classic line problem, and it's one of the things I think Democrats have to struggle with because there's usually a moral line on these policies, and the right just gets to draw it as far as they want, and the left who's trying to push the line struggles with drawing their own line. So the simplest example would be marijuana. Okay, legalize marijuana or not legalize marijuana. The Republicans for years were like, "Marijuana bad. It's the devil's lettuce. It's illegal. Keep it out. It's, you know, sinful. Blah blah blah. Don't don't have it be a legal drug." The left was trying to push that line. So they're like, "Make it legal. Do all the things. Make it as legal as possible." And what's the truth? The truth is, we probably should regulate it a little bit. We probably shouldn't have people driving cars and heavy, heavy machinery while really high. We probably should be able to tax it and not have uh-- you want to drive some revenue off it and like regulate who's selling it and make sure people aren't getting stuff that's laced, etc., etc., but that's not a fun sell for the Democrats. And so you end up in this-- when you have this-- when you have these sort of line problems, it gets really tough to to make change on the left per se because, for immigration, the right gets to say, "Don't let people in that don't belong here. Kick the criminals out," and like hardline on immigration. And if the actual truth of the story is like, "Hey, we have too many people here. There has to be a pathway to citizenship, and we also have to have a strong border," but the left is going to let everybody in. That's what they're--
By the way, I I it it really pains me how the politics of immigration have changed over the last, let's call it, 5 years, in large part because the Biden administration was terrible on border enforcement. Yeah. They said, "Let everyone in." And so you wound up with, by the numbers, like this massive surge of of folks in. And then like the pendulum went the other way, and now everyone's like, "Hey, what what the hell?" Trump said, "Build a wall." That's their line. They left just to take down the wall. But but but like, you know, a majority of Americans were for a pathway to citizenship. Correct. Um, like, you know, 10 years ago. And and then now it's gone in a particular direction because of some very, very bad policy in the Biden administration that, in my opinion, was swayed by politics and appearance where there was like, "Hey, we don't want to be like shown being jerks on the border," and there was this very real, difficult, frankly, argument to make where it's like, "Hey, no, no, early in the administration it's like, 'Hey, Kamala, you're going to be the border person,' and then we're we're all just going to forget about that two months later, and then um and then and then 3 years later, three years we're not going to enforce the border very much, and then you're going to be the nominee, and then people are like, 'Whatever happened to that?'" And and like so there there were two issues to me that um Trump won on. Number one was the border, and number two was uh the economy/inflation and the rest of it.
This podcast is sponsored by ExpressVPN. How did you choose which internet service provider to use? The sad thing is most of us didn't have much of a choice because ISPs operate a lot like monopolies in the regions that they serve. They then use this monopoly position to take advantage of customers. And yes, they even sell your data, your activities to advertisers and big tech companies. And you don't see a dime. That's why I protect my internet surfing and devices with ExpressVPN. When you use ExpressVPN, it's like a magic portal to a perfectly safe and anonymous internet. And don't take my word for it. This is the number one VPN service according to CNET. It's used by major companies all over the world. So stop handing over your personal data to ISPs and other tech companies who then mine your activity and sell off your information. Protect yourself with a VPN I trust to keep my privacy online. Visit expressvpn.com/yang. That's expvpn.com/yang to get three extra months free. Go to expressvpn.com/yang right now to learn more. [Music]
All right, let's end on something way more positive. What do you think? This question is from Matthew. Says, "Hey, Andrew. I'm curious to know what type of music you listen to." And if I'm going to be honest, I am too. So, well, thank you. Oh my gosh, I love this question so much, Matthew. Um, so check it out. But I think most of you have a sense of who I was, um, you know, growing up where I I listen-- my in the 80s um and early 90s-- uh, my first concert was Depeche Mode, the Violator Tour, 1989-- uh, great tour, great t-shirt, though the t-shirt actually tattered and got holes; sometimes the concert t-shirts don't hold up. Um, then the the the Wish Tour, uh, the Cure. Um, the Smiths had broken up. Um, but I I saw um Morrissey in concert, and I grabbed his wrist as before he kind of went dark and crazy. Sorry. I mean, that makes me sad when people do that. And then and then uh U2, Grunge, uh Pearl Jam, Nirvana, uh Chris Novasal, shout out. And then converted to hip-hop. Um, during the '90s, pretty much I was like an angry teenager and angsty, and so whatever music channeled that kind of energy I was into. I spent my 20s and 30s, uh, you know, a lot of R&B. Love Maxwell. Saw him in concert. Um, huge Prince fan. The question is what I listen to today. Yeah. If you're walking down Manhattan right now and you put in an AirPod, what's playing? So I I've got, you know, a playlist that bounces across eras. But um, for like some of the stuff that I double-click on or it's like, you know, tell the algorithm I like and they play more of. So some of this is going to make me sound I don't know what, like a little fuddy-duddyish, but it's like John Mellencamp. Um, my first concert, Pink Houses, some Springsteen, and then um some recent bands. I love Mount Joy. Oh yeah. I like the Lumineers. You love Florence and the Machine. I like 21 Pilots. 21 Pilots. Uh, I like uh Florence and the Machine. I do Florence and the Machine anytime. Like it's on my playlist. It's uplifting. I like um Gracie Abrams. Okay. Um, she's good. Yeah. I like uh some of Benson Boone's music. I think I even said that. Jules Turpac. So I try and span eras. Um, if it's like comfort food, I'll listen to, you know, 80s and 90s. Mhm. Um, I will say that now like my music tends to try and be a little more upbeat. Um, but yeah, that maybe I don't know if that answers the question. I think it did, good.
In terms of current bands, uh, one of the things too, it's like I always try and go to live music, um, you know, like whenever I can. Y-- if I'm if I'm on a borderline, I'm just like, "We should go." So I did see the Madonna show in the Garden. Oh, hell yeah. Last year. Was it fun? It was fun. Still got it, right. Saw Pearl Jam when they came to the Garden, too. Uh, saw Smashing Pumpkins in the Bay Area last year. It was fun. Uh, and they had Stone Temple Pilots open for them, and I was like, "Wait, didn't the lead singer die?" But they got like a new lead singer. Sounds a lot like him, as one of those situations. Maybe that can be a push. And I know concert tickets are really expensive. Um, but try just try and find some band you like and support them because uh I think that they'll appreciate it, and it's generally worth it. You know what I mean? Even even the overpriced-- you usually have a good night around it. You know, you feel-- I usually I feel good after I went to the concert. I I should say, too, like I do play Taylor Swift a fair amount in the car. Um, because my boys, it's one of those intersecting things where it's like like they'll always be cool. You know, that's what happened to our campaign vehicle, too. It's like whenever we couldn't agree on music, you wind up with Taylor Swift. This is a Taylor Swift podcast. I love Taylor. I think she's a badass, and her music's great. Yeah, I did attend the Eras Tour, and it was like the most epic freaking concert performance. She was like a pro athlete up there. I was like, "This is an objectively--" JJ Watt had a tweet that was impressive, too. And he's like, "I've never seen like a physical performance from a a singer like this." It was It was bananas. The The show I saw was in Boston, and it was raining so hard, like really, really hard, where she was drenched to the bone. Like through-- she seemed like a cyborg. It was insane. Like like the the fans were all like, "We're not sure we can handle it," and then she was up there just doing her thing. I mean, she just like so supercharged. It was a wonder to behold. And I I will say too, I mean, there were times on the campaign trail when um, you know, we were in front of thousands of people and like it felt almost superhuman. Like that's what Taylor reminded me of. It was uplifting. She does it at a different level. One of the best ever, man. No, we haven't-- No one wants a hot take. Like we haven't seen this sort of stardom and performance probably since the Beatles, man. Like it's that crazy and that impressive. Yeah. Yeah. It was it was-- if you think about it, probably is it-- it was literally awesome. So uh, you know, any Swifties out there-- love her with that, man. Good to be back. Good episode. Most importantly, happy summer 2025. Please do try and enjoy your summer. Things may or may not be awesome out there, but they should be awesome uh in our lives and awesome when you listen to this podcast. Yeah. So like just freaking make some memories of summer. Do something dope, you know? Go to that thing, visit that trip, ask that person on that date. Just, you know, summer-- summer is the time. Amen. Love you guys. [Music]