Transcription
[Music] Mom, Ma [Music] Ma, that which does not move forward and comes closer to you, out of that is a picture, "Mera Naam Joker," which is very dear to me because it did not do well. Similarly, a picture called "Jagte Raho" also did not do well. So these two, perhaps a child's leg was not right somewhere, or the face was not right somewhere, or something was in it, because of which these pictures did not do well, or these were very excellent pictures that people did not understand. Anyway, I [Music] [Applause] said, mid-20th century and classical Indian cinema era, when Indian cinema was more focused on its storytelling and realism. All regional cinemas used to produce movies in their unique, unique cultural way. Do you know, despite being so diverse, what was most common in our Indian films? Simplicity. I like simple themes, simple emotional situations, and I think simple things are more universal than complex ones. Now, if you will notice in the films of these legendary directors, their films always explored our Indian culture more. For example, India's very first picture by Dadasaheb Phalke, which revolved around our Ramayana and Indian culture. "Satya Dharma Tyag," which teaches us. This film influenced another legendary Marathi filmmaker, P. Shantaram, who made films on social issues. "Aadmi" (1939), a young man who is falsely accused. Crazy, this issue still exists today. Now, films like these influenced Bengali filmmakers like Satyajit Ray and Ritwik Ghatak, and in 1955, Satyajit Ray made his first film, "Pather Panchali." "Pather Panchali" inspired many of our regional directors. "Amrit's poetry is not just poetry, Bharat, it is a weapon for me. So, first of all, it is a poem in my opinion. Every artistic creation, be it a play, novel, or film, through which we can connect with the public on the level of ideas, is a weapon in social or political struggle. It is true in a way, but why such stubbornness every time? This is not stubbornness, Bharat, it is truth. Art cannot be separated from politics. If you look carefully, the government of every country is using the medium of art to maintain its power. If fundamental change is to be brought about, we must use our art, our medium, as a weapon. This was the movie writing of that time. People also call it the new wave of Indian cinema because directors like Satyajit Ray gave global recognition to Indian movies. In fact, Hindi cinema actor-director Raj Kapoor made Hindi cinema quite famous in the Soviet Union. "Kya Gardish Mein Hoon Aasman Ka Tara Hoon." Even his film "Awaara" was a massive hit in Turkey. Turkish cinema even made a remake of it. But wait, wasn't the film "Awaara" a commercial masala film? "Chhane Ki Taj Nahi Sakhi Haath Se Tumhare Phool Se Badan Ko Thes Lagti Hai." I told mother before, childhood days and childhood will never come back. Well, yes, but I will consider these types of films as middle cinema, you know, in which artistic and commercial elements are mixed. But sadly, the downfall of parallel cinema was about to begin from here. [Music] It was 1970. For the first time in Satyajit Ray's career, he saw four back-to-back flops. Not only this, Raj Kapoor, whose film "Mera Naam Joker," which was an artistic film, was the biggest failure of his career. That which does not move forward and comes closer to you, out of that is a picture, "Mera Naam Joker," which is very dear to me because it did not do well. The reason is that cinema became a commodity, risking the very soul of our stories. [Music] [Applause] [Music] Man cannot suppress, and then he lashes out at society. So you call it violence? Actually, that is the part of emotion. The hero being strong, that is a must. That's why we call it hero worship. Do you know what the problem with commercial movies is? They were unrealistic, very far from our real lives and ground realities. But obviously, these movies were entertaining, and anyway, the Indian audience has always seen cinema as a source of entertainment since the beginning. Now, definitely, this masala cinema had a huge impact on parallel cinema. Like, the audience now only liked entertainment-oriented movies with over-the-top action and melodrama. Haran, how long have you taken? How long have you made me wait? I didn't recognize you. Very few people in our industry are so fortunate that their name is Satyajit Ray. He had announced many years ago that I cannot make Hindi films. So when the news came that he was making one Hindi film, the entire industry went to him. His latest film is "The Chess Players," which received its well-deserved praise at the London Film Festival recently, and we took that opportunity to talk to Ray. With "The Chess Players" reaching out to a bigger audience for the first time, he used an international star, Richard Attenborough, and the dialogue was partly in English, partly in Hindi. The majority Indian loved it. It's a historical film set in the 1850s about the growth of the British Empire in India. However, this movie, "Shatranj Ke Khilari," became quite popular in the West, but in India, it was a box office failure. This in India, all the time, and people don't... we have fairly backward audiences, I must say, in spite of the film society movement and a lot. If you consider the large audience, it's a backward, unsophisticated audience, exposed to commercial Hindi cinema more than anything else. And so you face this problem. But you make the kind of films I make, the kind of films I want to make, I make the kind of films I enjoy making, that engage my, my, my attention, my curiosity. This interview is from 1989, and Satyajit Ray was not alone who was troubled by this masala cinema. In spite of this, Bollywood did get its hands on formal storytelling, so that they could reach a larger audience. But at what cost? All right, before we move forward, first, this book, "Our Films, Their Films," which Satyajit Ray wrote in the 1940s, where he talked about how our Indian films are slowly, slowly adopting Westernization. He also talked about what problems exist in our Indian cinema. You can say that he made some predictions about whatever was happening in Indian cinema. And yes, I am sorry if I ruined your childhood films, which I am going to talk about now. The great artist, he is. He created such a big world. Then in this world, he created thousands of people. He drew millions of lines on the hands of thousands of people. Lines of happiness, sorrow, honor, love. He wrote everything. Damn it. The 21st century, a new wave of modern cinema, and Bollywood has now become the face of Indian cinema. [Music] Masala movies have now taken over cinema, and imitation. Whenever the name of copying comes, then obviously Bollywood is always number one because the songs and movies they have ripped off are just [Music] unbelievable. The entire freaking movie is a scene-to-scene copy. [Music] [Applause] Suddenly, they even imitated Gabbar Singh's style. [Music] The film, in fact, even its iconic songs are copied from Western. Sad, right? Anyway, this was a film from our parents' time. So this cult film, "Ghajini," they also remade it in Bollywood, which is a copy from Christopher Nolan's "Memento." Now, it's also possible that they bought the rights and all. So it gets here, and then I remember you said my film has been copied. You know, I said, "Ghajini," really? Really? About really? Yeah, I said, yeah, yeah, I said the film had just released over there, and he had seen the film. It's a big success. I told him about it. I said, yeah, no credit, no money, no nothing. Not only this, our another cult movie, "Munna Bhai MBBS," which is very similar to the Western movie "Patch Adams." But still, I doubted that this movie is not a copy. I tried my best to defend one of my favorite movies, but sadly, its scenes were also copied from "Patch Adams." The worst part is that these things also happen in the South. In fact, this is still happening in our Indian cinema. And if we are talking about imitation, then how can we forget homogenization in our Indian cinema? Means all films looking the same. Homogenization has been going on since the Angry Young Man era. "Sholay" became popular, then similar movies started being made in the same direction. When "DDLJ" became popular, then the same kind of romance movies started being made. Now, no matter if it's a music video or an action scene, everywhere you see it's just the same. And "KGF" is a great example of this. A masala movie which became very popular, and then till today, everyone is making the same masala action movie. Now, what is the problem? People like all this. Well, the problem is that this creates another problem in our cinema: stereotyping. Stereotyping has also been going on since the 70s, from Amitabh Bachchan's era. You know, a comedic sidekick. "Greed for money has punctured the tire of your brain and let out the air of intelligence." And a corrupt businessman who is always corrupt. You are a fool. The one you are questioning, one of his eyes is a government lawyer, and the other is a DSP. And always a romantic hero. And SRK is a great example of this. When Bollywood exploited him so much for romantic roles. "Sundar Srivastava, my name is Amarkant Verma. All India ready. Hi, I am Ajay. B.K.T.V. I am Aman Mathur, your new neighbor. My name is Ram. My name is actually Mohan Bhargava. And when SRK tried something [Music] new, then, yes, the audience never accepted him. And a great example of this is Rohit Shetty's spy universe. The villain's henchman in "Singham 1" is a lawyer in "Simba." Ajay's love interest's mother in "Singham 1" is Ashutosh Rana's wife in "Simba." In "Singham 2," they even changed the love interest. The news reporter in "Singham 2" is a judge in "Simba." The rapist in "Simba" who was encountered is an officer in the anti-terrorist squad in "Sooryavanshi." And since Salman Khan is also reportedly coming into this universe, where nothing is confirmed yet, because Rohit Shetty is very excited about surprising us, so let's consider it reported for now. And with the mere arrival of Chulbul Pandey, its entire space and time reality. Definitely, this film is very poorly written, and plus its backstory. The same thing applies to your sequels as well. And last but not the least, unrealistic. Well, [Music] [Music] All right, here I will give a different example. Here's the movie "3 Idiots." Yeah, my favorite movie, by the way. So we all know that a character like Rancho never really exists in real life. But I love how they portrayed him in the movie. Like, they could have shown him as a nerdy and a rebel character too, but no, it's a Rajkumar Hirani film. They showed him in a simple and authentic way. And you know, this is why we can still relate to this film and the characters of this movie. I think Indian directors should learn or take inspiration from Rajkumar Hirani. I mean, not only him, but from each other. You know, and why I am saying this, it will make sense later. All these problems Satyajit Ray wrote about in his book 60 or 70 years ago. But this was just one side of the portion. Every aspect has two sides. So let's discuss the other side, which is regional cinema, where stories are still given first priority. Now, I am not saying that all films are artistic. Even I like commercial movies, and Bollywood has also made many good movies, both commercial and artistic. But the audience never really supported the artistic ones. In fact, Satyajit Ray himself said that Indian cinema is a mixture of both art and commerce. But the sad part is, 70 years ago, the commerce part was dominant, and it is becoming more dominant today. Now, I will not say that the audience here is diverse and backward, but it is definitely strange. Because this is the same audience that abuses Bollywood for not making good movies. When they make them, no one supports them. And yes, at the end of the day, watch what you like, because you cannot force anyone. And before I end this, this is what Satyajit Ray said in his book, and I guess this is the reason why a proper Ramayana movie has not been made in Hindi cinema till today. But you know, it is incredible. A country which has inspired so much painting and music and poetry should fail to move the filmmaker. And in today's time, it is more business than art. [Music] If someone were to ask me why I make films, I wouldn't find it easy to answer. But good and right. My making, but but there are. So I trust the answer will be. I make films that I like. My mind and my own logic and my own fun. So I select my own actors. Sometimes young, sometimes old. Sometimes it happens that casting is great fun. This is the true stuff of the cinema. This dazzling contrast of sight and sound and mood. And it's a challenge for any filmmaker to try and orchestrate it and shape its various conflicting elements into a work of art.