The Real Reason They Dont Buy (It’s NOT Objections) | Jeremy Miner

This is really for anybody who wants to influence or persuade. It's not just for salespeople, right? How do we make more sales? That's the question. Because what causes a human being to have an objection? I'm trying to sell you something; I'm trying to help you honestly. You have to give them the money before they see over that mountain of what's on the other side of the mountain that you're promising. They have to pay you, so they have that fear of change. You just stop selling and start helping.

What it is, Brad Lee back again with another episode of dropping bombs. Today in the studio, folks, I got a real treat for you, especially if you like to make money and you're an entrepreneur or you just want to get out of the Rat Race. Jeremy Miner's in the house.

Hey, you know, Sur Real Real, uh, I was here right when I started my company. I think we we we recorded the first version of the virtual portal; it's like eight hours. I was like 60. I don't even know what the hell what I was doing five years ago, but five years ago was actually on this show, on your podcast. So here we are back.

You never invited me back. What happened?

Well, you're always invited.

Well, yeah, that's what you say to everybody. You're always invited, but you're running around the country and the world, for that matter.

Well, you know, just trying to stay out of trouble. And you've also uh uh, you know, built quite a bit big company too.

Yeah, here and there.

Yeah, you know, I mean, we're like, for my corporate career, I came from a company that we had like 10,000 employees, so we have like 140 at seventh level. To to me, we're like little ants, but for a sales training company, we're we're large.

Yeah, for sure. Large and in charge.

Large and in charge. Here in, I had a guest last time. Yeah, uh, his name is Josh Lions. Somebody somebody told me about that.

Yeah, yeah, interesting. Yeah, and he was uh, I forget what he said about you, but you know, it wasn't I don't remember what he said, but it was it nice. I don't know if it was nice or not. I it wasn't unce, but it wasn't un-nice. I'd have to remember what he said about you, but now that you're here, I almost want to like, you know, get him and you and and and Grant and me and Andy and Jeffrey Gmer. Remember Jeffrey Gmer? This Bible say guy.

That's right.

Yeah, get it all in a big room and then figure out cuz I think you know your style is a little bit different than most.

What's my style?

Your style is more of a of a of a spin selling type, spin approach.

Consultative. I would say consultative selling is uh, to surface level, we we wouldn't be, but I mean, I like Spence is an old book, but but you have a you have a unique dis- yeah, teaching.

Well, it's an emotional connection. You know, Tony Robbins says a lot about this if you go to some of his events. I like to take it a step further. Uh, in order to be at the highest level of influence, if you're influencing another human being, you have to really Master how to emotionally connect with them. Go there first, where they feel like you understand their needs, their desires or wants, even their fears, without buying into their story, right? Because they've already done that, right? Their story could be, I need to think it over; I need to talk with my spouse; I'm too busy now. See, these are just stories, right, that prevent people from change. So NEQ, the E stands for emotional emotional connection, right? So I like love spin selling, but a lot of it is like, I would say kind of uh, and I don't want to downplay anybody, but it's a long time ago that book was written, 80s, 90s, and it's more about asking logical-based questions, def find the needs of the client. The problem is the human beings buy on logic or emotion. Emotion 100% of the time. Your brain studies show that, right? I feel like a drink because I'm thirsty. See, every decision you make starts with your feelings, right, your emotional side of the brain. So that's what ANYB stands for; it's that emotional connection. So you have to ask questions, but it's not like your prospect is just going to open up to your emotional questions if they know where those lead, right? So a lot of salespeople might say, and this is really for anybody who wants to influence or persuade; it's not just for salespeople, right? We teach all sorts of, you know, people how to influence, right? So if you're asking like uh, you know uh, what are some challenges you're having, John? Like, does the prospect know where that question leads? More than likely, right? And so unless they're a laydown, more than likely they're going to give you vague, generalized, surface-level answers because they know where that leads, right? So that's a surface-level question; you're going to get a surface-level answer. There's not much emotional connection there. Now you can you can emotionally connect with somebody where they feel like you understand understand them, but if you judge them, they're still not going to buy. So they have to feel like you care for the consequences of what happens to them if they don't change. That's what NPQ is.

So what would be, and by the way, folks, seventh level is Jeremy's company. You can find them at Jeremyminor.com, I believe.

No, no, no, no. Follow me on IG or something. We our our website is like sevenlevelhq.com or something like that, but they probably that's just a corporate website. Go to just have them follow me on Instagram, Jeremy Lee Miner or something.

Jeremy Lee Miner.

Yeah, yeah. You know, just IG verified account there. Now see again, I I see you doing what you teach, what you know, just you know, just you know, no big deal.

Well, see, I'm just over here being boring. Here's the thing, just Jeremy Le Min, just just the boring guy. But here's here's what you always have to think about if you're in sales or if you're trying to influence somebody like is selling something you do to people or is selling something you do for people?

For.

Yeah, four. But most salespeople have been taught is you do it to people. You do quiz me cuz I'd love to see if we wouldn't that be the case though.

Yeah, that would be salespeople like I got to sell; I got to make money; I'm manipulating them; I'm going to pressure them; I'm going to do whatever it takes because I'm doing it to them, but you have to learn how to do it for them. There's a big difference in that.

Well, if you want to do it right, you would. If you want to make a lot of sales, you want to do it for because you get to help a lot of people. Yeah, and this is what this is what it's all about, folks. How do we make more sales? That's the question. How do we make more Revenue at the same time, though? What I tell people yeah is, dude, you just stop selling and start helping, which is that's why I say you're doing it for somebody because if I'm trying to sell you something, I'm trying to help you honestly.

Yeah, yeah. And if my energy feels that way, yeah, I think we connect faster, and you trust me more, and it's all about trust, isn't it?

Well, it's all about trust. The question is how do you build trust? Because you know a lot of salespeople, you know, they'll make a cold call like I I'm with XYZ company uh, you know, the reason why I called was or like, how you doing today? And the process looks like I'm great. Who is this? Because they're used to what the same predictable questions that most salespeople ask doesn't build trust, asking them how their day is or you know, who won the game last night or how's the weather over there in Dallas. You know, like as you get into the conversation, maybe you you get into that, but like in the first like 30 seconds, so many salespeople try to build rapport, but the problem is your prospect our brains recognize what patterns, right? Your brain recognizes patterns; that's just in your DNA. So society recognizes patterns from salespeople. So if you call a lead or whatever and you're like really really excited like this, do they recognize that pattern?

Yes, because I hear lots of salespeople do that. Now on the flip side, you can't be boring; you can't be like oh timid like, how's it going? You can't do that, and you can't talk like this like a monotone telemarketer because they recognize that pattern too. So you got to talk more assertive like you're the expert; you're calm; you're relaxed in your demeanor, but you're the one that can solve their problems, not the other way around. So it's how you come across, right? It's it's your it's your it's your tone; it's your energy. Tony Robbins talks a lot about that, your energy, your body language, you know, because if you ever wondered uh, you know, why salespeople selling the same thing to the same prospects, we got the mic here, salespeople selling the same thing to the same prospects to the with the same price points using the same script, how do they get completely different results? It's how they're asking the questions; it's how their body language comes across if they're in person; it's how their tonality sounds to the prospect's brain that determines your results if you're trying to persuade, influence yourself.

For sure.

Well, again, I know we disagree on a few things.

What do we disagree on?

Well, like in my mind, enthusiasm sells.

What what does enthusiasm mean?

Certainty.

Enthusiasm, certainty, like right now I'm talking with certainty, but I wouldn't say I'm like talking like a used car salesperson. No pun intended. We train a lot of used car dealerships that crush it, but I wouldn't say like, you know, being like over enthusiastic.

Well, over enthusiastic I think is a little bit too much. So let's define what enthusiasm is; maybe we have different interpretations because right now I would say I would have certainty as we're talking; we're just talking like back and forth; we're natural, right? We have certainty. Would you say that's how you should talk to a prospect? You're certain like this.

I definitely believe you should be in a position of expertise and a and a position to help, not sell. Yeah, because again, if I and and I don't have it broke down like you because I stopped sales training like a million years ago, I just give my opinions now, and I hear a lot of people valid opinions, but I hear a lot of people about your uh program that say, you know, that [ __ ] works. And I'm like, we do have a little bit under 30,000 testimonials in the last four years, so it might work.

Yeah, yeah. So I mean, is people can make fun of it or they can talk [ __ ] about it, but at the end of the day, I've heard people that you don't even know I'm talking to and like, oh yeah, dude, Jeremy Miners man, I was making like, you know, 80 grand, and I took his course, and I went to 250 and 300 and 400. I'm like, well, dude, what is he teaching that I'm that I don't get?

Connection. That's what I teach. NEQ, Neuro-Emotional Persuasion Questioning.

So so what are the questions?

Well, it just depends on the context, right? Uh, you know, the first I want to connect with the prospect; we call those connection questions. Now why am I asking connection questions? Three reasons: I want to instantly disarm the prospect where they let their guard down. What's the biggest reason why prospects stay surface level with you? Because their guards up, right? So how do you prevent the guard from getting up or if it is up when you first start talking to them, how do you get the guard down? Because are they going to emotionally open up to you if their guards up? Like, no, they're not going to; they're going to stay surface level, right? So I want to disarm them to let their guard down. Most of that's how you use your tonality, how you come across, right? Uh, can can you be trusted, right? Uh, the second things I want to take the focus off me, put on them instantly. And the third thing is I want to take them. I'll ask you this question: What's the number one thing that most people think like if you're a salesperson talking to a prospect, what do you think the first saying the what comes to the mind of the prospect like what do you think when a salesperson first starts talking to you?

You probably start thinking how much is this going to cost.

Would you say that a lot of people do?

Yeah, yeah. I would say most people would think that. How much is this going to cost? They think that in the brain; they may not say it, but they think that. So that means that their belief system is cost or price. So how do I take them out of that belief system? That's called a frame in human psychology, and then how do I deframe them and reframe them into a new belief system, which is results-based thinking, right? Because if I keep them in price or cost-based thinking, more than likely what objections am I probably going to get in that conversation or conversations if I'm selling to a company?

Price too expensive; we can't afford it.

Because I'm keeping them in price or cost-based thinking. So how do I take them out and get them into the end result of what you actually sell? Like if you're selling life insurance, that's our biggest industry we train, okay? Huge space for us.

Is that right?

Oh yeah, life insurance. We train tens of thousands in that space. So life insurance, final expense, mortgage protection, you know, Commercial Insurance, all that stuff. So if I'm selling life insurance, I'm not selling them a policy; I'm not selling them coverage; I'm selling them the results of what that policy or coverage does when one spouse dies and the rest of the family is financially protected. I'm selling the results of what the thing does, not the thing itself. Too many salespeople focus on the thing, like they focus on the thing, the program, the the the uh, you know, the training, the product, the service. We would train them how to focus on the end result the prospect wants. People buy results, right? But most salespeople don't know that, unfortunately.

Oh, there's hope. There's so much more there. So when you when they come to you, are are do you get most of them in a because you get a lot of people making sounds like decent money? The ones I've talked to, you took them from like, you know, a couple hundred grand to like 400 grand and like so those aren't average sales guys; they're making a couple hundred grand. The average ones are making 8. I mean, we trained there's 100 according to Forbes Magazine; there's 163 verticals; we're in 161 of those verticals now and pretty much all the subcategories. So like Home Improvement is a big one for us, you know, but Home Improvement would have like a category to be doors, windows, siding, carpeting, countertops, cab right, HVAC, you know, whatever it is, Home Services, garages. My my really good friend Tommy Mellow um, so it's kind of all over the place. People always ask us like, hey, I'm selling this like, you know, this is what always happens. We have this big Facebook group called Sales Revolution; there's like 160 some thousand salespeople in there, and somebody will post a testimonial, I tripled my income or whatever, and the first question that salespeople ask in the comments, what do you sell? Because their way of thinking is it's not me; I'm you know, it's not nothing I'm doing that's causing me not to make all the money I want; it must be the industry. So if I just jump to this other industry, maybe I can make what this guy or gal's making.

That's some truth to that, just depends. You're selling $5 magazines door-to-door; am I likely to make multiple six figures a year? Unlikely. But I've seen salespeople that sell insurance; I've seen salespeople that sell solar; I've seen salespeople that sell SaaS; I've seen salespeople that sell you know, freaking uh, you know, Jets, cabinets, uh, health benefits, you know, all over the place, all crush it and make way more money. So it's I wouldn't say it's necessarily the industry; I would say it's the skill level, the lack of skill level that's the most important part, wouldn't you? If you're in the right industry because again, I've seen what's the right industry? Well, I've seen I would just say high ticket.

What's high ticket, though?

You know, more than 10 grand is not high ticket.

Sure it is.

Well, they sell a policy; they make 900 bucks. Is that high ticket?

Well, they sell a policy that that they're being advanced for a lot of money; it's 200 bucks a month. And not only that, I mean, you you you can sell those. I mean, I've seen people make 50 grand with one policy.

Oh, sure. Yeah, IULs. Yeah, we got we get, but I think I think life insurance would be considered high ticket, but not if they went as earned. I mean, if you get a whole life policy for 400 bucks a month, is that really a high ticket? Real is low ticket.

Well, the price is, but your commission, your commission.

Oh, okay. You're saying commission. I'm I when I say high ticket, I mean like the price of the thing you're selling. That's kind of what I have in my mind.

See, we're speaking the same thing, just-

Yeah, but there's not many Insurance type businesses that pay like so much advanced commission for a $400 premium. You're making 50% to what, 90% or something, just on the plan.

They depends. Yeah, if if you if you're rolling with real Financial, this one company I know about, they they pay you up to 130%.

Oh my gosh, I love that. So it really it really depends. I would say it's it's mainly maybe a little bit of the industry, very rare; it's mainly the skill level because a lot of salespeople will jump; they'll like, oh, go try sell solar, and they don't sell [ __ ] well. Solar's a solar is one where you better be making some money because you can make money, and nine times out of 10, I would agree it is their skill set.

Yeah, like I said, you're selling $5 magazines door-to-door, probably that's part of you not making a ton of money. So when you also take into consideration uh, whether you're call light speed pens.

I ran out, dude.

Sure, you I like those light speed pens; that's cool. Okay, I'll get you a whole box. Keep asking. I dude, I love those; there's are good pens. Um, it depends on also whether they're coming to you or whether you're going to them because a cold call and an inbound, those are two different things. You can get away with two different things, can't you? Uh, it depends on your skill level. Like my my first job uh, in college, I I sold home security systems door-to-door, you know, and by uh, second summer I was making 100 grand a month. That was like 22 years ago. So what did the average person make per month? And they're like, I don't know, two grand. So definitely a skill level thing, right? That was yeah, defin-

How did you disarm them at the door? I mean, so there's always disarming techniques that are a little bit different compared to what you're actually selling. Like if I'm selling like if I'm selling door-to-door, what what is so here's I'm going to take you this back. So I I'll give you a psychologist perspective, okay? So I went to school to human behavior to become a psychologist or a psychiatrist. I chose a psychologist route because Psychiatry you got to go medical school for eight years and hey at school, and so every you're taught that every patient, every human, which would be a prospect too, has belief systems or a current way of thinking. We call that a frame, okay? So everybody write down frame, okay? And I'll tell you what Tony Robbins does with this; it's really brilliant. And everybody has this belief system; it's called a frame. So how do I take them out of this belief system? They belief systems child psychology are pretty much formed from the ages of 4 to 13, okay? And pretty much cemented by the time you're 18, your worldview, your belief systems based on who your parents were that raised you, maybe based on your church, your religious beliefs, uh, based on your cousins you hung out with, could be now who you follow on TikTok as a kid, which is freaking scary, okay? But your belief systems and what's a belief system that most people have about salespeople in society?

Scummy.

Scummy, right? So you got to realize when your prospects first start talking to you that's their belief system, right? So how do I take them out of what we call that frame? That's called a deframe, and then how do I reframe them? That's the process into a new belief system that I'm doing this for you to solve your problems, right? So every industry is going to be a little bit different. So when I sold door-to-door, uh, what what are most people that open the door used to coming from? Anybody selling Pest Control, alarm, solar, landscaping. I mean, I could go over 30 different things. Hi, are you the homeowner here? Hey, how's it going? How you doing today? That's the pattern. So your brain recognizes patterns. So if that's ever happened to them, which is likely the case that somebody's knocked on, try to sell them something instantly. If you sound like everybody else, where does the brain go? Do that like like like oh, salesperson trying to sell me. So the guard's automatically up, okay? So what I did, and I I see a lot of salespeople doing this now, so I don't I don't know the well pattern still works, but what I did is I didn't want to look like a salesperson. So most salespeople that sell door-to-door, they wear like this license badge here cuz they thought they would needed to look official. I'm like, you might as well just put a stamp on your head that says I'm a salesperson trying to sell you something because that's what that means, right? That's a pattern. So I would stick mine in my pocket. Now if they ever asked, I just pull out the license, but if I have it here, they already know I'm a salesperson, so their guards already up. Coming to the door, you know, so that's one pattern I'm getting rid of. What I did is I went and got like a you remember the uh construction vests, like the orange? I got an orange one; I had like a lime green one. I sold more one week; I'd wear the other one. I was like really super superstitious. Then I get like a tape like a tape measure on the side right there; I'd wear like these old man like Grandpa New Balance shoes, you know, like the old white ones, you know, just looking as basic as possible, cheap Walmart watch, like literally basic like nonthreatening, right? Because a salesperson if you knock on the door, you got these gold chains on; you look all stick back instantly. What pattern do they used to to that? Looks like a salesperson, so their guard's already up; you're literally already triggering their guard like why would you want to do that? And so when I knock on the door, I even have like some leather gloves that I put like on the side, so I looked like a construction worker. They literally didn't know if I was telling them that there's a pothole to be careful about, so they always came to the door. A lot of salespeople can't even get them to come to the door, okay? So I knock on the door instead of saying, hey uh, are you the homeowner here? Hey, how you doing? My name's Jeremy. I stop. See, it's over at that point. So I knock on the door, and I had like the clipboard, okay? And I had all the contracts in it because I sell these alarms, and I had like this document on there that had like five or six questions like I was taking a survey, okay? Like they didn't know if I was reading their meter; they didn't know if I was a local survey for politics; they had no idea what I was doing. So I'm doing that to trigger curiosity, so they come to the door. So I knock on the door; I stand at angles to the side, you know, six feet back; there's a whole lot where you got to learn there. I knock on the door. Now as they came to the door, here's let me show you if I'm selling solar roofing, what should I be looking at as they're coming to the door?

Probably the what?

Roof, the ceiling.

Yeah, yeah, the roof.

I want to look at the roof. If I'm selling pest control, depending on what part of the country, if I'm in a place where, in North Carolina, there's a bunch of ant mounds, I'm probably looking down at the ant mounds, right? Or cobwebs; I'm looking at the cobwebs, or whatever it is. Or if I'm a landscaper, I'm looking at the brushes there, you know, the thing. So I'm trading cues, so as they come to the door, I'm not sitting here like this; I'm sitting here like, riding stuff down, like looking around. I'm just—I'm acting like almost like curious and confused, right? Confused look, right? And so as they come—this is the thing—is like, oh, you never should act confused. Why don't you say like, oh, I don't know how the thing works? Like I'm not talking about your 107-year-old grandma having dementia confused, but confused like you're not quite sure about something, which triggers the human brain to become curious about what the hell you're confused about. Does that make sense? That's all I'm doing right there.

So as they come to the door, they'd be like—I'd lean in as they came to the door—and I take my pen, a little J-quan ton out, Coach Tommy, this—I'll show you this—and uh, I yeah, are you guys the uh—you're the property owners here? And I'd lean in like this. You know what they do all the time? Yeah, we're the property—what's going on? All I did right there was a pattern interrupt; that's just a pattern interrupt. I'm just going to—yeah, you guys see how I slow down my cadence? Because what are they used to? What pattern are they used to as salespeople talking? Did you—did you try—did you try the other way though? Or did you just naturally—Oh, I did it the very first couple of months; hardly made any sales, cuz I—I—I get this part. And then when they knock on the door, you couldn't—you couldn't deliver it a little bit quicker? If you go—the thing is, if you go faster—see, here's the biggest reason why you get resistance is because you talk too fast. You talk so fast that you give the prospect no time to internalize what you're saying or asking, so they give you a knee-jerk response. It's like if you're—you sell cars or furniture, like retail, and they come in like, hey, welcome to the store, lady, how can I help you? Just looking—you're instantly going to get that response because you say it too fast, right? So what if you went like, hey, welcome into the dealership, are you guys kind of out looking—maybe looking around? Yeah, I'm going to feedback the objection. You've heard that one before; everybody does that. Yeah, we're just kind of looking. And you know what you're possibly looking for, right? I'm just going to cadence out when you—now you're like, that would never—that would never work because I'm—it just never worked. I've never tried it. I don't know, because I would want like—like the—like I get the at the roof like, you know, then when they knock on the door and they answer, I'll be like, hey, are you the homeowner here? Yeah, sure. You're not going to talk like, you know, but I wouldn't necessarily—I've never tried or I didn't do it like that. You—the homeowner—you got to work on that. I know I got—I've never done it. You—so look, I always say you're an actor, actress, always on stage in a play that never ends.

Who's your favorite actor? Well, that's true. Yeah, who's your favorite actor? Or he would—don't tell me you don't watch TV. Oh no, I love movies, TV, watch. I would have said Robert De Niro, but I can't stand him anymore. Okay, well, um, I've been thinking, you know, I like Brad Pitt. I like freaking, um, you know, Dustin Hoffman. Yeah, all—all those guys are great. Imagine if they were in that conversation like Tom Cruise, you know, Mission Impossible, and Tom Cruise talked like this: All right, we got to go down by the van because the CIA is coming, and the CIA, if they come here, you know, we don't know really what we're going to do because the CIA is really smart and it could be a bomb and it could blow everybody up, and then if we blow everybody up, then I won't be able to see my wife anymore, and then I'd be really sad. And they didn't move their facial expressions or their body language, and they just kind of sat here like this and talked about like this in the same tone the entire film, you would turn it off; you would never hear about them. But what do you notice they do? See, in acting school, you're taught to use your facial expressions to trigger certain emotions in the audience, so they keep watching their damn show, right? You're taught all that; you're taught how to change your voice fluctuation and a cadence, and—and maybe sometimes you're talking real quick, and then you're going to talk really slow to emphasize a point, right? Like uh, Martin Luther King, "I Have a Dream" speech; you ever listen to that? Look at the verbal—the verbal pacing of what he said, or the verbal pausing: I have a dream that one day all mankind would be equal in the sight of God. Look at all the verbal pauses in there. What if it said, I have a dream that one day all men are going to be equal in the sight of God? You wouldn't have any emotion there because he says it so fast, your brain doesn't pick it up quickly—quick enough. But when I verbal pause in between points, that's why President Obama—I'm not into politics, you guys—f*** it all out; I'm an independent—but President Obama was a great communicator, a lot of it because of his verbal pacing and what he said, and sometimes he'd talk really fast, then he would slow down to emphasize a point, and that causes your brain to like stay curious and stay engaged. If you just talk in the same tone the entire time, whether it's fast, slow, or anything, the brain loses engagement; it's hard to stay engaged. See what I mean? That—yeah, just a bunch of boring stuff. See, that's—that's the part I don't get, like, see, but—but that's the part I'm trying to—I'm trying to—and I'll try it. That's the thing, so—well, there's no trying, but I—I—I've always sold with certainty and enthusiasm, and—and I definitely use tonality. If your enthusiasm is what you're doing right there, I would agree with that; that's just—I would call that assertiveness. You—you have certainty in your voice. Like when I say enthusiasm, I'm thinking about like the salesperson, the plaid suit, the greased-back hair, hey, I got a great opportunity for you, and you're like, whoa, what the hell?

But do those still exist? Uh, they still exist. Yeah, walk—walk down a mall—walk down a mall again. I—I'm jaded, I guess. I know those people still exist; they're out there. So I guess our enthusiasm and maybe is the same thing; we just talk like this, but it's a natural conversation; it's a skilled conversation. Okay, I'm not just winging it. And here's the thing, I always say there's four types of salespeople; everybody write this down. I think there's four—these are the same—same four types of people in anything in life; it doesn't matter the profession. Number one, sales—the first type of salesperson you're going to deal with is what I call a winger—let me pronounce that right—a winger—somebody who wings everything, right? They show up; they say different things to every prospect; they don't really have a structured process, so they don't know what works, what doesn't work, and they just kind of throw up, right? They talk about the features and benefits and just hope and pray that whatever they're going to say is going to magically work, but they don't know what works and what doesn't work, and they don't make a lot of sales. Who do they blame? The leads, the prospects. Oh, my prospects are broke; they have fear, blah, blah, blah. They never blame their lack of skill level. And where do the most of those salespeople go? They get fired eventually; those are the wingers, right? Then you have where most salespeople are; those are the dabblers. Okay, I call those the dabblers, right? So a dabbler is somebody who buys a couple of sales books every year; they go to a couple of free events, uh, you know, they maybe—they maybe follow me or you to learn about sales on—on BAS reals on Instagram or YouTube, like free content, and they feel like, hey, you know, if I just stay in long enough, if I get enough reps, eventually I'll be good. That approach takes years, if not decades, if they ever get good. Most people are there, and that's why they're average; they're dabbling in the craft, right? Watching me on IG is just dabbling in the craft because you don't know the context of what's going on before, after, in between, up, down, anything. And that's where most of those people are, and if they ever get good is because they simply play the numbers game; they work 12, 14 hours a day, and eventually they burn out; that's why there's so much attrition, right? See those people like, I want to get into management because they burn out, right? Then you have the third kind; this is the interesting kind; nobody ever wants to be here; those are the know-it-alls, right? They have huge egos; you know, a long time ago they invested in sales training; they got halfway good; maybe they make a couple hundred grand a year or something, and then they just stop investing because they think they—what—they know everything there about sales, persuasion, influence; they just know everything. And so eventually, because they stopped training—remember, train something you did or train something you do, right? I love that from you, right? That's a good frame—because they stop training, their income gets capped; they never go anywhere; they never get to where they want. And then you have those that I call are committed to mastery, right? They're investing in sales training all the time; they're buying anything they get their hands on on sales persu—they're spending like thousands of dollars, like if not more, and you know their learning curve is 100x faster because they're speed to lead. I always say the most successful people don't learn from their mistakes; they learn from other people's mistakes; they don't make the same mistakes themselves, right? And that's your top 1%. So think about anybody in life, who's your favorite athlete? Athlete, yeah, just any sport. Michael Jordan. Michael Jordan, was he a winger, dabbler, know-it-all, committed to mastery? He was committed to mastery. Uh, think about who's your favorite business thought leader besides yourself. I know, thought leader, yeah, thought leader, just your favorite thought leader, who is it? I like Elon Musk. Elon Musk, okay, was he a winger, dabbler, kn-—it-all, or committed to mastery? Probably the mastery part. Think about the most famous doctors in the world, famous uh, attorneys, like the best of anything, best in the military, like the Navy Seals: winger, dabbler, know-it-all, committed to mastery. See, there's something about that commitment to mastery; it doesn't matter the profession you're in; if you want to be the best in your relationship: winger, dabbler, know-it-all, committed to mastery; it's the same thing in life. You know, Tony Robbins talks about it; he's like, there's people who are stressors and dabblers, and those who are committed to mastery. What—who—who you decide you're going to become determines your entire destiny, and unfortunately, it determines a lot of your family's destiny, which is scary. You want to commit to mastery.

Do you believe that people should be in the position to receive commission? What do you mean by that question? People ask me all the time, how do—how do you become successful? They're asking me because somehow I became successful in their eyes, anyway. And I would say, step one, you got to get in the position to receive commission. What does that mean? You got to sell something. I've never met anybody that's successful that isn't selling something to somebody, selling something all the time. I mean, Elon Musk is a salesperson; so is Michael Jordan; everybody's a salesperson, right? You're always selling your ideas. Yeah, but I mean, I mean legitimately, commission, a commission job. I've never seen anybody successful yeah, that isn't selling something. True. I mean, look at—look at Elon—let's take Elon Musk for a second—like, was he—was it—I mean, it was unlikely that he was the only person that had the concept of the electrical car, but he was the best at communicating that vision; he was the best at framing that—that's why he got where he's at. Jeffrey Bezos, was he the only person at the concept of the idea of Amazon? Unlikely; he just knew how to communicate that better; he knew how to—he knew how to frame that. You know, it's—here's the thing—here's what I think most salespeople think; they think it's the product or service they sell that's responsible for the results; nothing could be further than the truth, most of the time. I'm not giving a straightjacket interpretation here, but in a prospect's mind, whether it's insurance, so or anything, SAS, in the prospect's mind that you're talking to, in their mind it all kind of seems the—what kind of the same, right? So what separates the salesperson who wins those sales compared to all the ones who don't is how they frame that offer, how they frame that solution to make it seem the best to the prospect; that's what separates it, right? It's like I was talking with Dan Henry the other day, uh, and he gave this really good analogy—I—I'll give him props on here—and he's on my podcast, and we talked about there's two—there's two family pictures. Think about your family picture, you know, your wife's got the family picture there; you're looking great, you know, with the kids and everything, and she goes out and buys two frames to go around that picture; same picture, two pictures; she's going to buy this of two frames; the first frame is like, looks amazing; it's like gold, whatever favorite color you have; it just looks precise; looks amazing; the second frame has got holes in it, kind of broken, a little bit, cobwebs, just kind of looks flat, basic, like it's from Wally World. Which picture are you picking up? The one that was framed better; same picture, but you chose the one that was framed better; that's what selling is; it's about framing, right? The solution, because in the prospect's mind, all the solutions kind of look the same; they don't really know what you know, right? If you're selling like an automation tool for AI for doctors to dictate their notes, how does the doctor you're talking to or the hospital CEO really know the differences that you have compared to everybody else saying that they're better than you? They don't; that's how you frame it. So how do you get the conversation going? Well, what are those questions? What are those connection questions? What's going to be different from fa industry? So I knock on the door; you answer it, and I say, it's just old Brad. No, you're not going to say that. So let me—let me give you an example. So let's say if you're—let's say if it's an—I'll give you an example because there's going to be tweaks. Let's say uh, remember connection questions? I'm—I want to take them out of—I want to start taking them out when I'm saying reframing them; that's a process. Everything I developed in APQ is meant to do one of two things: is to prevent objections from happening in their mind, because what causes a human being to have an objection? Usually a lack of trust, lack of certainty, yeah, which is from a lack of trust, right? They don't trust you; they're uncertain that you can deliver what you—because you're basically saying like, hey, you have to pay me before what I promise you can happen, right? So they had that fear of change, right? So they—you have to give them the money before they see over that mountain of what's on the other side of the mountain that you're promising; they have to pay you, so they have that fear of change. Okay, so objections are triggered by uncertainty. So how do I make them certain? I need to start taking them out of price or cost-based thinking and results-based thinking. So uh, let me give you an industry uh, okay, let's say you're selling for a marketing agency, just give an example, okay? You get on Zoom, so I might get on there, you know, and I'm not going to go like, how you doing today? How's it going? Now, if they came on there and ask me, how—I call that small talk, right? It's small talk, and—and look, there's nothing horrible about it; I would just do it a little bit later, because what pattern is your prospect used to from salespeople? That one's—and I'd say don't do it at all. Yeah, you know what, especially in nowadays. Yeah, like nowadays, I think people are wanting to cut to the chase and get to the point. Yeah, yeah, but—and get to the point where—where I'm not necessarily giving them that price to the point, but I know what you mean. So I might get on there uh, hey, can you hear me okay? Okay, good. All right, so looks like you booked on the calendar about uh, I guess getting some possible help with maybe branding to really scale the—the business, right? So if I'm selling for a marketing agency and what's—I'm not really selling leads; I'm not selling branding; I'm selling the results of what the branding or leads do, which would be what? Grow the business, scale the business, right? Yeah, let's use—let's use LightSpeed as an example. I'll get some free training uh, so what's—in result of what your platform does, makes you more money than you are without it. Okay, I like that, but let's reframe it where uh, the end result uh, okay, looks like you booked on the calendar about maybe getting some uh—my ad—my ad says, if you're not making at least 50 grand a month or more. Yeah, yeah. Okay, okay. So it looks like you booked on the calendar about uh—now you call it like a learning management system, is that what they see? No, they don't see that. Well, I call it a training system. Okay, so it looks like you booked on the calendar about maybe looking at uh—maybe a training system to really help you grow and scale your company, right? Yeah, or create—oh, looks like you were trying to create courses; you're interested in selling courses on—looks like you were—you booked on the calendar about looking at ways to create courses to get your brand out there so you can really grow your company, right? Yeah, right? Going to say no. See, the end result is—to—you see, you're not selling—you're not selling them a learning management system; you're selling the results of what it does for them, which is to get their name out in the market, get their expertise at market, so they can make more money at the end of the day; that's what you're selling: more money, more revenue, right? Yeah, but that's a book call; that's different. Yeah, that's a book call. So how about an outbound—let's say it's an outbound call; they put in their name, email, phone number; they respond; they don't know who's calling or when; they just know somebody from your company's calling. Okay, but that's—but that's a—you—there's no—what about just—co-call? There's two—I'll show you the differences. There are two different—so an outbound lead, there's some—you know, they've—they've responded; they've raised their hand and basically said, help; they have some type of problem or issue; otherwise, they never would have responded, right? But that doesn't mean you can just go and start assuming in 10 seconds, because a type A's will typically like push back on that. So in the answer, I'm just going to say—I'm just going to assume it's them. John, hey, it's—it's Jeremy—Jeremy Miner; you—you responded to the ad; I'm just calling you back; uh, looks like you booked about maybe looking at ways to get your courses out there to really grow your business, right? Yes. So the same thing. So notice what I did there in the—yeah, I'm just saying it's John; I'm not saying, is this John? Because that implies that you don't know them, but you also didn't say, it's just Jeremy. I don't necessarily say that. No, in—in most circumstances, I could say that, but not on an outbound lead; it—it just depends. Like in certain contexts, the word just is a disarming technique, and others it actually makes you look timid; it just depends, right? I've seen people like—never use the word J—well, it depends on the context. So many people are like—they're like—have this straightjacket interpretation; it's like a straightjacket interpretation of the Bible; I can't stand people that like—it says this—well, there's like 7,500 different churches that don't agree with your interpretation, so I don't know—maybe we could go back to the translators and see what they thought, you know, from the original like Greek, like, you know. So there's no straightjacket interpretation. So I know we have to go farther—further back. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah, I'm talking about—and then originally Sanskrit. Yeah. Okay. Yes, we can get into that; nobody can read that though, so you just got to trust—you just got to trust, have faith. Yeah, see, do you have faith? And faith in what? God, you believe? Do you believe in—do you believe there's a Creator? Yeah, I believe there might be more than one creator. I believe for us there's only one God for sure. What do you believe in? Well, I don't want to go down that road, but I believe there's—I believe there's a Creator. I—I believe there's a Creator. There's a Creator. I think—I think you have to have more faith to believe there's not a Creator. I think you literally have more—have to have more faith to believe that you know some three asteroids hit each other and all of a sudden—I know I'm Hebrew—or atheists are going to get upset with me; that's okay; I still love you. And then somehow the—the things were started in the pond, and then the frog grew into the monkey, and the monkey grew into the man, what?—and then the giraffe, you know, the giraffe, and then the rhino or the hippo and the lion and the butterfly, they all came from that little oo thing—productive systems of a woman just somehow magically happen, but I think you have more faith, but that's just me. And—and get into quantum physics, and you start to realize like, dude, there's—there's no way this just happened. I mean, deep down inside the nucleus of the cells, there's s*** going on that is exact; it's crazy; it's had to be created. Oh yeah, for sure. I—I believe. Now, we might have been created by an alien. Elohim means what? God; it means Gods; Elohim plural; it's Gods. And the God said, let there be life; it doesn't—it doesn't actually say God; that's just how they translated it in the Old Testament because at that point the King James translators believed that in the—what is it?—monotheism or—or whatever—there was not like other gods, but Elohim is plural; it means—look it up; it means Gods. The God said, you know, let's make man in image; the God said—well, there obviously must—that's what it's worth. You know what also—well, there must have been more Gods because he says himself, the Creator, Thou shalt have no other gods before me. So who's he talking about? Well, I think he was talking—you could interpret that to mean he was talking about idols for the people; it just depends. You could interpret—Define God. Oh gosh, we're—okay, we're going to outbound leads; let's go to outbound leads. Okay, but we're going to come back to there because I—because I got one more thing for you. Isn't this interesting? God said, multiply and replenish the Earth. Replenish means that it was already replenished before; interesting; something to think about. Replenish the Earth, not plenish the Earth; he said replenish it. I stopped listening after he said, go forth and multiply, and so I said, yes, sir. What's saying like—what does replenish mean? Replenish implies that there was already something before. Well, there was—maybe it was before the flood. Oh, Adam and Eve supposedly were—were way before the flood, the beginning, weren't they? Yeah, that's what I'm saying is that who—he said it—it was the first humans supposedly; he said, multiply and replenish the Earth; that's in—what is that—what is that? You—you know, that would be—that would be Genesis 1. Yeah, multiply and replenish the Earth; replenish means it's already been replenished. I'll let you guys debate on that. Okay, let's—let's go back to—you'll get a big debate on—

That so let's go back to what's fact: outbound leads. Because there's a lot of salespeople in the world, their biggest struggle—and you said it right here—when you were making more money than other people, you said you'd have more opportunities to do business. Well, it's your—so what determines a prospect? Remember, all goes back to your brain. As a human being recognizes patterns, so I have to interrupt the pattern. That's called a pattern interrupt. I'll give you an example. You ever seen that uh show? I was just talking with some of my guys this morning before I flew up here. Uh, I'm I'm not your Guru of Tony Robbins. I've seen it. Is that a great show?

Yeah. You remember that clip where the the guy stands up? He's like, "I you know I'm committing Su—I'm gonna I think I might commit suicide." Remember the guy? He stands up, the red shoes, and the guy starts talking to him, and he's kind of nervous and he's talking with Tony, and he's like shaking. Right? What did what was the first thing that Tony did? Remember, he's like, "Is it because your [__] red shoes?" Excuse my language; my mom's going to wash my mouth with soap. "Is it because your [__] red shoes?" Why do you think he did that? Pattern interrupt. He's interrupting his pattern. Because what Tony teaches, which is really emotional connection in sales, is that that human being, a patient, was in a state of like, "I can't do this; my life is not worthy; I'm going to kill myself." So what he's doing is he's interrupting his pattern, and now he's going to de-frame him out of that belief system and start to reframe them into a new belief system of, "Why the hell would you ever want to kill yourself? Doesn't make any sense." But the way he started, he had to do was a pen up first. Because if he didn't do that, it would be harder to de-frame him out of that belief system. That's why he used that. See, that's why I love watching him because he's brilliant. He can take anything in an instant because he understands the brain psychology. He's like, "It's because you're [__] red shoes," and the guy looked down, and then he started laughing, and his whole state started changing, and then he became open and he was playful. And by the end of it, it was almost like he had a completely different belief system about his life. That's a pattern—red—kind of crazy, huh?

So what I want to do—what I call the lead—is I want to interrupt the pattern, right? So what are they used to? "I is John there? Hey John, it's Bradley with XYZ company, calling you back. How are you doing?" That's a pattern the prospect's brain already recognizes. So even if they responded, the problem is in your survival part of your brain, which is you—a lot of—yeah, they call the—the—the lizard brain, right? Reptilian part of the brain. That's your fight or flight; you're you're trying to survive. So your brain recognizes those patterns. And because we've been sold to as a society and marketed to all the time, right? What's the first thing—one—what's one of the first things you do when you wake up in the morning besides go to the bathroom? What's one of the first things you do when I wake up? Well, when you wake up, you go to the bathroom. What's one of the first things you do? You pick up your phone and you do what? Check my email. You probably get on social media. I don't—okay, I know—well, not a good example. Most people—not me—only dud that to me; that's a danger. Okay, but most people would—most people on social media, where do they see ads trying to sell them something? So it starts—they're already being sold to, right? They walk into the kitchen; they, you know, they turn on the TV to watch something before they go to work. What do they see? Commercials trying to sell them something. Yes. They got bombarded from day car. They turn on the radio; what do they hear? Ads—radio ads trying to sell them something. They drive down the road; where do they see signs? Billboards trying to sell them something. See, you're constantly being sold to all the time. And because of that, our brains have built up defensive systems. And so anytime we feel like a—if we hear a pattern we're used to from a salesperson that we're being sold to, our brains go into that fight or flight mode.

So notice when I said, "Yeah, it's James—James—James Miller, you asked us to call you back." That's a familiar tone. But what if they hadn't though, but they put in their name, email, phone number? It doesn't matter. See, if you ever got a call from some like, "Hey, it's Amy Smith, how are you, Brad?" Well, you say, "I'll be like, 'Do I know you?' No, you wouldn't, dude. You'd be like, 'I'm doing good, how are you?'" You—that's just the way the brain works. "Hey Brad, it's Amy Smith, how are you doing?" That's enthusiastic, but that's a familiar tone, right? Am I—I sound like I already know you; therefore, it's an interrupting your brain; it's it's a pattern interrupt, and your brain starts searching, "Who's Amy Smith? Who's—how do I know Amy Smith? I have her on my show? Is she one of my people?" Like, you're all—all she did there with the familiar tone is buy her more time. That's what I'm talking about—pup—because your—it forces your—yeah. So is that what you teach them to do on an outbound call and not on an inbound—inbound because that'd be weird—but an outbound call where they might not remember you or an AG lead or Co—yeah, "It's James—J—James Miller, uh, you asked us to call you back." You see, that's an outbound lead, not a co-call. You wouldn't say, "You asked us to call you back" on a co-call. But if they responded to an ad and it's not a booked appointment, they just know somebody's going to call them; they just don't know when or where. That's an outbound lead in our book. So, "If I reach—us to call you back, you saw the ad this morning about, you know, maybe getting uh more coaching for, you know, creating your own courses so you can really scale your business, right? Right." Starting to get them—I'm starting to frame them into results-based—engine for Price request. That's the first thing. Now, "Hey, when you were—when you saw the ad with—with Brad, what was it that he was kind of covering that caused you to—maybe I don't know—want to—maybe want to look into this further?" So I'm pacing that out rather than say, "I want to make—what causes your interest in this?" You know, like it's just too corny. Now, if I—if you're selling for like somebody like you that has like a brand and an influencer, I might say, "So—so how long have you actually been following Brad for?" Now, why would I want to know that? See how—how indoctrinated they are. Yeah, if you're an influencer, right, in other industries, it would make sense, right? But if they're like, "Oh, I've been following them on IG for six months," that's going to tell me that they know a lot about you; they're kind of bought in. If he's like, "I don't know who that is; I just saw the ad this morning," that tells me I'm going to have to do more work, right? See how I'm just like—I'm finding out details by asking questions that they're going to answer that just tells me things. And then I might say, "And where do you follow him on that—like what platform?" Now, if he said he or she said, "I follow him on IG," what would that tell me? That they're just watching like short 30-to-60-second clips. Now, let's say you had a big YouTube following—I don't know if you do, but I'm sure you do—then there's a more long form. So like, "Oh, I've been following on YouTube," that tells me he knows—or she knows—more. So I'm just finding out what they know. So, "What was it that he's kind of been going over, you know, on IG that caused you to feel like, 'Hey, maybe—maybe I should look into this possibly?'" See, I'm like verbal pacing that out. "Oh, I like Brad because of this, because of that." All right. Yeah. And the first part of this call—it's it's pretty basic. Now I'm going to go into framing. Okay, I'm already—I already did some frames there, but we don't have time to go through this.

Yeah. The first part of this call—it's pretty basic; it's really more for us to find out kind of, you know, what you're doing now for your—what you got to tell me—what you're doing now for your courses and really growing your brand and kind of the results you're getting from that compared to maybe where you're wanting those to be—to kind of see what that gap looks like. And then towards the end of the call, if you feel like, "Hey, this, you know, might be what you're looking for," we can talk about uh possible next steps. Would that help you? Now I did a lot there—disarmed. Yeah, I'm disarming it. Remember connection questions? My goal is to disarm the prospect, to get them—let—let their guard down, start taking them from price or cost-space thinking and reframe them to results-space thinking. So notice how I downplay—"Yeah, the first part of this call is pretty basic." Now, why would I downplay? Why wouldn't I be like, "This—this is going to be an amazing call"? What is a prospect used to? What pattern? Oh, well, I like that first opening. Yeah, I'm downplaying it because it gets them more comfortable, letting their guard down. Okay, Tom—down. Yeah, this is gonna be—yeah, it's pretty basic. Because look, if their guards up—did you say the first part of the call? Yeah, if I'm in a one-call close, I'm going to say the first part of this call. Now, if I'm—let's say—if I'm selling luxury pools and the next steps—the proposal—then the next steps go in the design room, I might say, "This first call is pretty basic." Now, let's say if I'm selling cyber security to Wells Fargo and it's a 12-month sales cycle, I'm saying, "These first few calls—they're pretty basic." I'm just tweaking it based off—yeah. I like to downplay—yeah, I'm down—but again, I don't hear confusion yet. I—that—well, let me show you where to use a confused tone. Okay, I'll show you in a minute. Okay, so then uh—so then I'm—wanted—I'm getting them out of price or cost—"I'm like, 'Yeah, first person call—it's pretty basic; it's really more for us to find out…'" And then I'm just—I'm doing this now, even if I'm on the phone and they can't see this, I'm still moving my body because your body language—your facial expression—affects your what? Your tonality. Right? Your facial expressions are the remote control to your tone. Try having a, you know, a curious tone with a straight face—really hard to do. Okay, so anyway—so—so going back—first word—it's called—it's pretty basic; it's really more for us to find out kind of what you're doing now—to—like let's say we're talking about growing their business—to grow your business—and the results you're getting from that—stop. Now, why wouldn't I say "the result—result you're getting from that" here? Why would I do it here? 'Cause you're not getting very many—yeah, 'cause sublimely—especially if they see me—I'm already getting them in their mind—I'm already putting them into like, "Your results are not that good; clearly you wouldn't be on the call with me." "The results you're getting from that compared to maybe where you're wanting those to be." See how I did that? Now I just created a big gap visually—even if I'm on the phone, I'm still going to do that—fix my tone—just to kind of see what that gap looks like. See how I'm already building a gap subconsciously in their brain, uh, you know, and then towards the end of the call, if you feel like, "Hey, this might be what you're looking for," we can talk about possible next steps with that. Now, why would I say "might be what you're looking for"? Take away—"Well, might be what you're looking for; we can talk about possible next—" So many salespeople like—start assuming the sale too early. I believe in assuming the sale, but I've got to build trust and credibility. And how much trust and credibility do I have in the first 45 seconds of a call or two minutes of a call? Hardly any. So if you assume too early, especially with an A—they'd be like, "Well, I didn't necessarily say I was ready to buy anything today," and all he did was just trigger sales—adds—where the guards up, and I got to get it back down. So if I just neutralize it at the beginning and say, "You know, at the end of the call, we can talk—you know, if you feel like—hey, if you feel this might be what—might be what you're looking for, we can talk about possible next steps," nobody's ever say no—"We cannot talk about possible next steps"—because I neutralize that. So I'm keeping their guard down, and then I might come and say, "So what were you hoping could happen by possibly working with Brad?" "What were you hoping could happen?" See how now I'm getting them to qualify to me? Because who has the problems—the prospect or are you the salesperson? The prospect. You're the one that can solve it. So why would you qualify to the prospect? So I'm now going to—sh—out—"So what were you hoping could happen by possibly working with Brad?" I'm still neutralizing—"Possibly working with Brad"—not—"What are you hoping to have happen by working with Brad?" Well, I didn't say I'm going to work with Brad; I'm still looking around. So I'm neutralizing. So for your industry, those might be my first connection questions, and then I go into situation questions. There you go. You happy? I am. He—now—I—I'll tell you because I'm close to that—the the way I want my guys to do it is first of all, we're talking about inbound now, okay? Because hey, number one—"Jeremy, just wanted to thank you for showing up; you know, it's hard as hell to get people on these calls nowadays." Come on, Big Dog. No, I'm J—I don't say that. But don't say that—"Hard as hell to get people in the calls." I don't—yeah—um, I was—but it is—but I was joking; I don't say that. Ultimately, I don't tell him exactly what to say; I tell him what to think, which is: number one, thank them for jumping on the call because they're taking their time. So be, you know, nice about it. Tell me how you—how you think—them. Tell me what you—what your guys say. What do you mean? Do they say like, "Hey, thank you for being on the call"? I don't know because I don't listen. That's what I should do. Most salespeople do—they're like, "Hey, thanks for taking your time to be on this call." I would say—why would you thank them for being on the call? Because who has the problems—you or the prospect? They do. They do. If you're—"Thank you for taking the time to be on the call"—all that sub—all that subconsciously is communicating is that they—that you value their time more than they should value your time. So that—that might—that lowers your status; that might be a a problem. We have it; it could be a problem, uh, because because again, I'm just a polite guy, and I've always been taught to thank people for their time. But yeah, yeah, I get—um—the the next step is basically—"So let me just ask you a few questions so I understand if we—if we can help you or not." I like that, man. Yeah, because I really need to know—disarming. Yeah. So—so con—real quick—do you—do you have a course or you looking to make one? Okay. Yeah, I could say that—that's a close—it's kind of a either/or; I'm trying to figure out where you are. Well, like, do you have a course currently or are you just trying to—I already know you—you ain't making much money or you wouldn't be on—on to call with me because the ad says, "If you ain't making 50 grand or more, yeah, book a call—my team and we'll show you how to do it." Yeah. So, "Hey, thanks for showing up, so let me ask a few questions—make sure that we're—you know—we can help you. Do you have a course or are you looking to make one?" Now, do you have a a course right now or are you like trying to figure out how to make one? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And so then they say, you know, "I either have one or I don't." If they say, "I have one," you're going to ask different questions compared to like, "I, you know, I don't have one"—or—"What do you teach?" Different situation—what are you teaching? Yeah. And then ultimately, you—so to businesses or individuals? So this all matters. See, I agree; those are more situation questions. I'm going to ask those connection questions first because a lot of times they already going to tell me some of that in the connection questions. Because when I say, "If—if—if you're selling for an influencer like you are or like a company, you're—you're kind of a—I don't want to call you an influencer because I think that's—has a weird word when people call like, 'How does it feel to be influencer?' I'm like, 'I'm a sales training company; I'm not an influencer,' like—what—I almost get offended, right? Uh, but you have a big social media fly, right? So—and you have a brand, and you have a real business, right? So—um—going back—I lost my tra—I had a Joe Biden moment. Tell me what you're saying again." No offense, Joe Biden. You know, like—you—you're worried about offending people, aren't you? No, I do—no, I'm just—"Joe Biden [__] is pants, bro." Well, who knows? He was the worst president in the history of the United States. And not only that, I'll bet you—they're—they're about to uncover all the crime, and I'll bet you anything he's going to get in trouble for all the [__] he was pulling. Sure, the government has a lot of—we're all going to be—I was offended—"We're all going to be 82 years old one day as well." But if there's corruption—I totally—he's corrupt, dude. The whole family was corrupt. There was cocaine in the White House, like—"Oh, where did I—to get here?" And then his son's like talking about that—wasn't that funny? Nobody knows. No, I know. So—so the last question that we ask in this slide is—yeah—so—and this is where I do agree with the confusion—so where—like—"What's stopping you?" Oh, yeah, we asked that more in solution awareness questions. So—"Hey, before we go on here, you out there looking for like ways to like really grow your brand so you really scale—or—what were you doing about like getting your course out there where people can actually see your—their message?" Well, I would assume—said—"I didn't do anything." I'm like, "Oh, what's—what's—how you"—back—confused. Yeah, I want to know—I want to know from these people what—what has stopped you—and the—and the the method of this is—so you will tell me why—what your problems are. Because if I tell you—you—your problems, you could get offended. And if—and then you could think—"I think I know everything they know"—you're biased; you're a salesperson—biased. Get them to tell you—"I want you to tell me what your problems are," and then coincidentally, whatever you're going to tell me is more than likely the solution we have. 'Cause you know what most people's problems are when they're not making 50 grand a month or more? Yeah, they don't know how to market it; they probably don't have a big team; they don't have sales teams; they don't have analytics; they're—they're just not—they're not—yeah—doing it right. Sure, that's part of it, but what's the core? I agree with all that—that's part of it—but the core that causes that is two type of personalities—can I tell you? Yeah—a superior uh—a superior way of thinking and an inferior way of thinking—mindset. So 80% of the—probably the leads you talk to—you guys talked to—80—85% love Brad—think that your thing is really great, but they don't feel like they can do it; they have inferior mindset. So unless we help them overcome that inferior mindset, it's going to be hard for them to want to change and purchase what you're offering. 15 to 20% have a superior mindset, right? They believe they can do it; they like Brad; they like the tips; they believe they can do it, but they can believe they can do it without you. So you have to see doubt and get them to feel like, "Maybe I can't do it without Brad"—whole different ball game. So you have to figure—"If they could, wouldn't they already be doing it?" Well, obviously, but they still have a superior mindset, so they're still—they're kind of looking at what you got, but they still feel like, "Maybe I can do it without them." Yeah, right. That's what—how—how much would you charge me? What do you mean? I'm gonna—I'm gonna pay you myself just to—just to walk through a day—maybe I'll come to Scottsdale—I'm gonna walk through the—the—the eight-slide deck—just give me—give me a few tweaks. It's kind of like—buy—it's kind of like driving in a car to a shop and like, "Hey, fix my car—how much is it going to cost me?" No, we're not—we're not—we don't need B—we don't need big fixing; okay, we need slight tweaking—like little belts—like—I like what you said—I like what you said in the beginning where you were uh—the way you said those—like—again, I like that—um—oh, you want to go back to the confus—we—we'll talk later—have one of your guys talk with my guys. Okay. Confuse T—no, I don't do that. I talk—"Oh, you want to talk to me?"—"Why are you putting so much sales pressure on me all the time?" Well, because again, I don't talk to your people; I said one of your people talk to one of my people. No, it's because I want to know first—you're putting so much sales pressure on me. I want to know first—it would be me to you. I want to know first what—you know—how you would tweak it. I'll even pay you—I mean, I'm not saying, "Dude, hey Jer, let me take are yours freaking something"—but no, I want—I want—I want a few—I want a few hours, and I'm going to tell you what we say. I'm going to write down the the word track, and I'm going to try it. Because again, I'm one of those dudes that'll try it, and if all of a sudden it's like—"Son of a [__] [__]! Yeah, that [__] freaking worked!" Well, now you got Brad Lee who is a influencer also promoting you more—well, you—you—you can't—you can't lose. We have some—some clients—we have Exxon Mobile; we have uh—ry—we have—I just saw a new B2B client—NBC golf channel. You got to sell advertising space—NBC golf channel—if you're watch—well, we got the PGA—that—no—that—that does that—close people for me. I'm trying to get up to your level. I know LPGA too. We have—but dude, I tell people that, "Hey, we got Jeremy Miner on LightSpeed; hey, we got Tony Robbins on LightSpeed." They're like, "I don't give a [__]"—fear complex—they don't believe—they—oh, Tony Robbins? He's Tony Robbins?—no wonder—I mean—"Oh, he's, you know, Grant Cardone"—no, that's not me—as in—fear of complex. You have to help them overcome that fear; that's why they—that's why it doesn't matter to them. Dude, what does your day look like if—if uh—like when you wake up every day—you just got calendars stacked with freaking Zooms and—and coaching your—your—your—we don't do—like I don't do one-on-one coaching; I mean we've got sales trainers; I mean I do—we have a consumer sales training, you know, for consumers—like individual sales—there might be a group session I'm doing that day for 3,000 people that are on there every Tuesday. I do one for about a thousand clients—they're in our like mid-level program—3.0 Pro—Mondays, I do two.

1-hour sessions for Advanced Ear Servo clients, those are individuals, not company owners. Uh, and there’s usually—we only let, I think, 60 to 70 people a month into that. That’s about a—I don’t know—20 to 30 grand a year program. That’s really advanced because that’s me training them in groups how to tie in any PQ to their industry, so like thousands of industry-specific scripts, all that stuff. But we have to teach it because if I handed you a script right now for your—like, “Here you go,” it wouldn’t work that well because your guys wouldn’t know why they’re even asking the questions in the first place. They wouldn’t know what to do if they ask a question, the prospect—like—doesn’t really open up. Like, what are you going to do? Just pressure on the script? Yeah, or they just sound confused.

Well, okay, let’s go back to the confused tone. So if a prospect—there’s different ways I could use a confused tone for different contexts—but let’s say a prospect says, “Oh yeah, I just—I’ve just—it’s just been really stressful trying to figure out this whole, you know, crate of my course.” Stressful. See what I just did? Stressful. Oh gosh, you have no idea. So what did I just do there? My confused face, refresh of my tone to their subconscious instantly says, “Oh, he didn’t understand what am I—my stressful. I need to—what—explain that better,” and that’s where the emotions start coming out. Okay? See what I just did? But if I’m like, “Oh, how do you mean by stressful?” Furious tone ain’t gonna do that. But if I’m like, “Oh, how—how do you mean by stressful?” So I’m confused, I’m concerned for you, right? So your tone is how they interpret your intention behind everything you say and ask.

So let’s say I’ll give you an example of like where to use a concern tone. Like, you’re not going to use a concern tone by saying, like, for your industry—“So do you have a CO—a CO—a coach? Do you have a coaching course now? Or do you actually—?” You’re not going to use like a—a weird tone; it’s going to be more of a curious tone, like, “Oh, so well, walk me through—do you have like a coaching course now, or are you trying to like actually build one?” That’s a curious tone, right? So it’s certain contexts. But let’s say they’re not moving forward; you—you can’t—they’re not telling you the real concern. I might lean in at the end and say, “Can I—um—can I ask you something?” Notice how my tone shifts down, right, to that concern tone, soft tone. They’re like, “Yeah, sure, what’s going on? What’s—um—it’s really holding me back.” See how that tone shifts? You ever seen that? We’ve seen wolf—it’s almost kind of gay—it’s not gay; it’s gay because you—I’m telling you what I’m doing. But if you’re emotionally involved—I’m just messing with me—if you’re emotionally involved. So if you’re emotionally involved in the conversation, and if I built a gap and I’ve helped you relive your pain and have a fear of future pain, you are emotionally involved in this. And if I lean in and say, “What’s really holding you back,” and I lower that tone, because your tone, like I said, it’s how they interpret it—“Does this person actually care for me?” Remember, it’s the emotional connection. Now I’m going to do that without buying into their story, because if I buy into their story, I offer them no value. But that concerned tone, a tone that shows empathy, does that lower trust that they have with you, or do you feel like that might raise trust that they have?

That would raise it, yeah, because they feel like you’re concerned for the consequences. And when you’re—when they feel like you’re concerned for the consequences of what happens if they don’t change, you’re more than likely going to get them to open up and tell you what’s really—ah, “It’s just a big decision, Jeremy. I just don’t know.” “I didn’t mean by a big decision; what’s going on? Talk to me.” You know, I’m just having a normal conversation, but it’s the emotional connection. “I just got to check with my wife,” you know? It’s a concerned tone. “Well, we could talk—we could talk about that necessity, right? You know, so we were talking about that there today. So what would be like if there—in your industry—if they’re a coach, right? So you’re—you mainly celebrate coaches creating courses. I know you have other clients in—in other places, but let’s say they’re a coach with your space—what—what would—would—would creating that course where they can make more money for their business—would that be a necessity?” Maybe, because what if the prospect says to your rep, like, “Ah, this sounds really good, but I just need to talk to my spouse because we have a really good relationship, and—and you know this—you know, we just have to talk about our financial commitments. We have a really good—you know, I value my relationship.” “Value my relationship,” yeah. “Can I—um—ask you something?” And then I’m going to repeat back the problem they have. “Does your—does your spouse want you to—let’s say they’re making five grand a month, and he wants to make 50—with—your spouse want you to stay at five grand a month?” “Well, no, she doesn’t want me to stay at five grand.” “I mean, does she want you to like get this coaching business out there in the world where people hear your message and you get to 50 grand a month?” Now I’m repeating back the end result that he—he’s not going to say no; he’s going to be like, “Yeah, she really does,” because it’s almost like it’s a necessity. So like when you—do you have to call your wife? So—so let’s say it’s the winter; it’s a winter right now; it’s early March. Okay, forget about Vegas; we’re in Minnesota. I’m saying—I’m talking to a prospect in Minnesota; it’s freaking cold there. Like, I’ll give you an example: “Do you have to ask your wife permission—like, let’s say the heater goes out; you’re in Minnesota; it’s 10 degrees below zero—do you have to call your wife to get permission to get the heater fixed?” “Well, no, of course not; you don’t have to ask her because the heater is a—what—it’s a necessity.” So what’s the number one thing that’s going to determine if your business grows to help you make more money? What’s the number one thing? Creating what—that course, right? Because if you don’t create the course, how are you going to make more money? “I’m going to create the course; I just don’t know if I’m going to do it with you.” Well, maybe you can do it with somebody else, but that’s typically why people come to us from your space. So what’s the number one thing that’s going to determine your results in creating that course? Is being trained by someone who’s already—what—mastered how to do that, right? So would you say making money would be considered a necessity? “Most certainly.” See how I just put him in that frame? What frame did I just—I had to do the analogy first of the heater is a necessity, right? You’re going to freeze to death; you don’t have to call your wife for that. Now he just said money’s a necessity, so then I can come back—I’ve got him in that frame that money’s a necessity as well, and then I might say, “So why do you feel like you would need to ask your wife permission about money? Because what’s the number one reason why couples get divorces?” Money, yeah, lack of money. So how are you going to change that if we don’t help you build this course and get the message out in the world? So I’m just asking questions.

“Oh, this are good; those are good.” So—so let me ask you a question where I don’t do that in the first two minutes; this is at the end. I’ve already got the emotional connection; I’ve already—they’re reliving their pain; they’re emotionally tied in, right? You—there’s a lot of stuff you have to do to get to that point; that won’t work if you don’t do anything before that. Where can people go get the—the touch of Jeremy? Meaning—meaning like they’re not spending 20 G’s and then—and then where can people—obviously people could go the same place if they’re—my team gave me a number to give everybody—the number we’re going to give them a free book; it’s called the—it’s the updated—I just updated a while ago—NPQ Black Book of Questions. I doubled the—doubled the—uh—content in it; made it a lot more industry-specific. So they told me to have everybody text them at this number: 480-637-2944. So 480-637-2944, and just say “Blackbook,” or you can say “Bradley,” and my team will send you a free copy of the NPQ Black Book of Questions. It’s like 110 pages; it’s a good starter, right? You don’t want to be a dabbler because books aren’t going to—like—persuasion, but it’s a good start for sure. “Let’s have him start there,” yeah. It’ll get—it’ll get—um—it’ll get them started because I know—I know what people are thinking; they’re probably thinking like me. Yeah, a lot of my—yeah—audience thinks like me, yeah, and a lot of them don’t too. But I’m thinking—think like—well, I would—I would be thinking, “I want to learn more about this Jeremy Miner.” “Cat, we have him get the book.” Seventh-level folks, him get the book. And again, I mean, at the end of the day, if you want the book, you go to 480-637-2944. For the people watching live, man, you can get it. This thing’s probably not going to drop for a couple of weeks, so you guys will get it before anyone gets it. 48—I got to do one thing—can I—can I just go savage?

Yeah, go. I never do this; I’m, you know, I’m always like, “Stay classy, San Diego,” you know what I mean? Because people always ask me like on podcasts like, “What do you think about Grant Cardone? What do you think about Jordan Bel—what do you think about Andy?” You know, I know you work with Andy. I don’t know those guys; I know I’m never going to say any [ __ ] on anybody ’cause I don’t know them. I’m sure they’re amazing human beings; that’s why they’ve had success as well. I might say, “You know, Grant’s an amazing marketer; like crazy,” you know, “Jordan’s got the movie; great guy. I like the looping some of the tonality techniques.” Andy—I don’t know him; great motivation guy. But when somebody comes on here and says that our program’s not that good—that was a client, and then later started his own sales training company—my team’s got to have me respond because the unfortunate thing is that there’s a bunch of receipts. And when people leave—testimonials—“Jeremy Miner, I made 6,900 in commissions in 24 hours using the bare bones of NPQ since joining Inner Circle. Thank you.” Oh, just barely joined. “Seven grand in 24 hours.” Then this one: “On pace to hit 100,000 this year. It ain’t luck; it’s NPQ. This is the best training program I’ve ever joined since joining Inner Circle.” Uh, look at this: “200,000 in sales in the week—in 5 days; 91% close rate. We’re going for a million. Thanks, Uncle Jay—Jeremy Miner. This is amazing.” Here’s another: “Ain’t luck when you do it the second time. I sell for two different offers; 14-grand offer, 9k offer. I did all—” There’s a whole bunch of [ __ ] here. “Thank you, Jeremy M.” So I could keep going on and on. So who—who was that? Well, he’s a guy you had on here; my team told me about this. I—old Josh Lyons. And that’s the thing; this guy used to be a client and has all these testimonials. I mean, they’re right here. What did he say on the podcast? I didn’t watch it. Somebody said he was talking [ __ ] that he said, “Oh, the NPQ is just average.” And I’m like, “Just average?” Well, when you’re a client, suddenly—I don’t know—like quadrupled your sales, and then two years later you start your own sales training company, yeah? And “NPQ sucks; my thing’s better.” I mean, he probably just—he probably shows the acronym. I remember he said something about—be cool about that; he said “scriptless selling.” Oh, I—well, it’s like saying a Hollywood actor—actress doesn’t have a script. Everybody has a script, but does it sound scripted? No, because you have to have a framework; you don’t just sit there and read from a script. I mean, who would do that? “Can—can you guys send me those—those—those receipts as you call them?” Yeah, my team sent them; they—they said there’s like 10 of them; they just sent me six. Yeah, we’ll post them, guys, for—for the—for the audio listeners; you got to go to YouTube; this video will be posted; you can see the—the receipts. I’m sure this guy’s a great guy, but he used to be a client, and so when you have testimonials like that, you can’t just go and talk [ __ ]; it’s just not—I would never talk [ __ ] about anybody even if I didn’t think the thing was good, let alone give all these testimonials and then start my own thing and talk [ __ ]; that’s weird. Well, you can’t do that, especially—yeah, you can’t do that, Josh. Those receipts, Josh, we’re gonna have to have you come back in the studio with—with Jeremy. “Oh, I would love to talk to that client for sure; that would be crazy.” I want to get a bunch of—you got to be classy; you got to be classy. You know, everybody’s—you should be classy. I—I agree, but unlike a lot of people, I always say—’cause again, people know I—you know—have my own way of doing [ __ ], but again, listen to you—I’m not—I’m not disagreeing with anything you’ve said. However, when I hear people claim what you say, I disagree, which is—you know, he wants you to be confused, like—“What? No! Like, I’ve never been confused tone,” like—but the way you explain it—how did that actually happen? The way you explain it makes a lot more sense. I like—I like the—the—the emotional connection questions. We didn’t get to the situation, which is why I’m telling them, “Go—go get—go get the NPQ Black Book.” It’s free, folks. In every industry, there’s going to be different connection questions or just tweaks, but the framework is the same; you have to have a framework to follow, but you never want to sound scripted. You’re not going to sit there and read a script, because what you have to do is have to understand the psychology behind each phase of the conversation. And when the prospect gives you different answers, you have to know how to tweak your next questions based off what they just told you; otherwise, you will sound scripted; it’s not going to sound natural for sure. Yeah, and—and based on what I’ve heard, though—yeah, agreed. That’s why I want to learn more. I’m going to put my name in—just tell your team—don’t call Brad Lee. We are the supposedly the largest—uh—business-to-consumer sales training company in the world now, based on your—in revenues. Well, I’m trying to—I’m trying to get you guys business-to-business; we’re fourth largest in B2B; we’re actually pretty big in B2B. Well, probably don’t—we have it on a different platform. Well, that’s—that’s the problem. “Please—please, Father Brad, forgive me; that’s where you—you’re dropping the ball; that’s where you—” I have sinned, Brad. I know. “Trumping DS, I know. What are we gonna do? What are we going to do?” We’ll talk; we’ll talk. Hey, Jeremy, is that your—that—where you’re dropping the ball going on there? What you to do that. Appreciate you watching live; you can go follow this dude at Jerry—Jerry—Jeremy Lee Miner—the Lee through the—I was thinking Jerry Lee—Jerry—you don’t want to be that guy. Jeremy Lee Miner, seventh level—you could Google him; there he has a lot of free content. If you guys kind of follow what he’s saying—like what he’s saying—“Go get a [ __ ] and Josh, don’t be a dabbler; quit talking [ __ ].” Sounds like he’s got receipts; we’re going to have to get Josh back on here; should talk [ __ ]. Just everybody get along, man; everybody can learn from each other 100%. And you already got deals coming in, according to the comments. Appreciate you coming up. Well, you know, dude, you’re—and you’re welcome anytime. Well, is that what you say to every—next time? No, next time—next time, let’s schedule a couple of hours; we should—we—I wanted to get into like the replenish the Earth and L and all this crazy biblical stuff, right? Come back up. Yeah, I mean, I would—I would stay right now except for I’ve got a Shaggy there in trouble. Hey, you—the two parts—people make fun of the two parts. It’s a great pat—interrupt on content. Yeah, I did it on purpose so they’d make fun of it—the two parts. Your hair used to be redder, didn’t it? “No, it definitely was not red.” I thought you had like—I thought you had a real red—red hair—two-parter. I thought you were like his clients. Well, what’s going on, freaking—I mean, doesn’t sound like you’re my doll—you’re [ __ ]. Nobody knows I have blonde hair, Brad. What’s going on, dude? That’s because he—they’re trying to give you a hand—Kajabi. All right, folks, you seen it—Jeremy Miner—go follow him. Until next time, keep it real. [Music]