Transcription
Hello and welcome to Better Offline. I'm your host Ed Zitro and I have lost the plot. I've lost the plot. Anyway, we're back. Download a t-shirt, log on to the newsletter, send me $4,000 in cash. That's the only way you could get onto the premium. It's cash.
But today I am joined by two of the powerhouses from Kill the Computer. Of course, I've got Juniper and Caleb here. How you doing, you two?
>> Really great. I'm doing wonderful.
>> Awesome.
>> Yeah.
So, I was just reading what appears to be a school shooter manifesto that was posted on kids.
>> Radical AI centrist >> doesn't want data centers built, but really loves talking to to chat GBT about all of his plans. But I like the first line of it the most by the way which is because we get asked a lot. No you don't. Who is I'm I'm constantly at Palanteer. Hey, have you come up with like oh I don't know 22 different points to explain who you are because another great thing about this is it does still does not explain what Palanteer is.
>> Yeah.
>> Still don't know.
>> So true. It's evil Salesforce is the best I can get to it. Like it's just like they send forward deployment engineers to your business. They charge you a bazillion dollars and sometime I mean it's just Oracle actually now that I said
>> my understanding uh is that it's like an app layered on top of like databases essentially is like what it is for different companies.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> It's just it's just Oracle. I was going to say evil Oracle, but I think that that's Oracle.
>> That's just Oracle. I mean their first client was the CIA.
>> Yeah, first CL client of Oracle was CIA. We love it.
>> It was very funny. Um, back in uh Peter Teal did um a Reddit AMA like 10 years ago and he called the CIA a front for Palunteer in that email. I thought was very funny.
>> Come on, dude. I hate these people. They are like they're they're stunting on all of us all the time. They think they can just like do this [ __ ] And
>> I mean, it was like come on stunting in the to the extent that they're doing stuff with confidence that they shouldn't have. Exactly. Cuz it's like they're trading at some ridiculous earnings multiple. This is exactly the kind of thing that goes away. Also really e like it. The problem with government contracts is when you have them, they're awesome. When you have them, they're great. When you're like going to guarantee money, but if the government is ever just like, I don't know if I want to work with the manifesto brothers over here.
>> I don't know if like like Donald Trump
>> 22 points. That's a lot of that's a long manifesto. The 22 The 23rd point that he only sent to a couple people was some of you are cool. Don't come to school alone.
>> I thought point 14 would be a little more racist though. American power. Let's actually go through these, shall we? Okay,
>> please.
>> Number one, Silicon Valley owes a moral debt to the country that made its rise possible. The engineering elite of Silicon Valley is an affirmative obligation to participate in the defense of the nation. So first bit I might agree with you do owe you do owe society money. You you owe them a debt of gratitude. And then the second part is like oh so you just care about war.
>> Yeah. So I think it's really uh just for context here. I've been uh kind of racking my brain for the first blog that we're doing over on our Kill a Computer news website. Um, I think it's really easy to interpret this as like him being cynical and be like ding ding ding ding holding his head out money like like you might think Elon Musk if he said this, you know, he's just asking for more taxpayer money or something. It's important to remember that like uh Alex Kart believes in this like very sincerely all this stuff that he's saying. You know, there's probably some cynicism to because he's obviously is, you know, his whole business is baking money off the federal government in some some ways, but he does believe every all 22 points are sincere.
>> I mean, I I I think specifically this point 142, especially like he does believe these things. Peace for who? This long peace for who? I'm sure in the imperial corps here in the United States in the air quotes west of course it feels peaceful but we like we just started a war in Iran. That's not peace. That's like the common thing where it's like oh yeah uh uh Israeli uh Israeli IDF soldiers get killed or uh by by terrorists but Palestinians they just you know they they died. It was who knows what happened.
>> A bomb involved killing.
>> Yeah. No source on that one. We don't know where that came from. Karp is interesting in that like his entire life he has, you know, he's this like a progressive Democrat that since October 7th specifically is kind of Yes, absolutely. He's uh he's, you know, he voted against Trump and he fought with Peter Teal about his support of Trump as recently as like 2024.
>> Yeah, it was actually it was October 7th that really kind of um and then some like anti-woke stuff. I still think that he does believe in some of these things. He's just uh kind of going into like uh I don't know, midlife crisis, divorce dad, like I don't know what I believe anymore mode sort of
>> burnout type thing.
>> Yeah.
>> But
>> yeah, I he's every interview I watch with him, I feel like if I had his number, I'd be like, "Hey man, uh call me. You doing all right, man?"
>> Yeah.
>> Uh a little too much um coffee this morning. You know what I mean? Little too much espresso.
>> The uh it makes you makes your face itch and makes you feel a little crazy. A little too much espresso, mate.
>> Because you see a guy like this bouncing around on stage and it's like how miserable. How miserable like being alive must really [ __ ] suck for you. That's the I know it's really generic to be like these people need therapy, but like these people need friends.
>> Yeah.
>> like one guy
>> outside of themselves too because they're all friends with each other. Of course, they all talk to each other.
>> [ __ ] they don't care about each other. No one's doing a brother checkin on the single group.
>> I don't think Peter Teal is in any place to give Karp a brother checkin. In any case, you know, he's like, "Hey man, I just interrupted my Antichrist conference to see how you're doing." Like, Saudi Arabia, are you all right?
>> Yeah, you're doing okay. You seem a little You seem a little uh off the rails. Sorry I didn't call you back. I was just writing a 62,000word screed about why woman must change. So, but let's continue with the the manifesto.
>> Actually, another thought with point one. It's like the moral debt the Silicon Valley owes the country, it's only in its defense,
>> not in making it better, not in making people happier, but just
>> war. But military military just one more quick point on the heart believes
>> um his dissertation I mean this is all part and parcel of his entire worldview he genuinely believe so even when he was still anti-Trump he would say stuff like well I believe like some of his policies in the Middle East are good um his dissertation a big part of it is the idea that aggression towards others other is like the the great social glue for a nation state
>> Jesus Christ
>> Yeah, it's very strange um for like a, you know this supposedly progressive guy who I genuinely do believe think he does economically want better things possible when you consider like the where he came from and stuff intellectually. He does believe some of this stuff but yeah he wrote his whole dissertation about how like uh, you know war and hate towards others is like a a societal glue. It's also I don't mean to attack people's physical ability but like am I meant to be scared of you mate? Like it's like I don't know just like
>> it looks like his bone will snap if you just like blow at him.
>> Also, he seems sickly.
>> All right, so number two. We must rebel against the tyranny of the apps. Is the iPhone our greatest creative? Uh if not crowning achievement as a civilization. [ __ ] hell. Get an editor, mate. Um the object has changed our lives. It may also now be limiting and constraining our sense of the possible.
>> What? Yeah, I can
>> like I think I What's great like what are you [ __ ] talking about? Like yeah, the iPhone was a huge deal. Is your argument that social networking is scary and bad cuz kind of agree. Is your argument that it oh it's limiting and constraining our sense of the possible? I'm guessing this is an AI thing,
>> right?
>> Sort of.
>> So he uh don't I do not recommend doing this. Um I recently just listened to an interview of of him at the UTAX with Barry Weiss, friend of the show. Oh, really good. Uh,
>> mind masters thought to the death.
>> It was it was very very fun to listen to. Um,
>> two geniuses.
>> Yeah, two geniuses. Last night him in the middle of the episode was awesome. But, uh, in that he he kind of expounds on this idea and his his thing is basically and actually I kind of agree with this. Um, we have the best and brightest minds in the tech world working on, you know, apps that you where's the nearest sandwich or something, right? These these are people that could be doing something that kind of goes back to his original point of like civic duty. Now, his interpretation of what civic duty or what could better this country is is probably different from mine and yours, but it is logically congruent. I also think that um, you know, if you understand like the the tradition that he came up intellectually he goes to study uh under Hobus uh German philosopher that is connected to the Frankfurt school
>> um he understands these kind of like social theories and frameworks that he kind of appropriates a little bit and Herbus' whole thing was
>> he's like the the first forum guy in history his whole point was we we can only reason through the world by arguing and that's the guy who Karp wanted to uh have mentor his dissertation. He didn't of course that's kind of a misunderstanding.
>> um but that's the framework through which he's viewing everything. So Hobus also would say early technology takes people's ability to argue to go to cafes and talk about and participate how society should look and work. Um so that critique of technology is also part of what Karp is trying to say here.
>> But I'm just going to say something that's very woke but wow is that a dude's opinion. Wow. Is that just like you can you imagine a woman walking around just like arguing with people and not being killed
>> within like one week? I don't mean this I mean this just like based on every conversation I've had with a woman like it appears that like the the world that a woman lives in and people of color as well like this very white guy thing to expect. Like if you just go around arguing as a woman you're framed as emotional and crazed. If you're a person of color, you're you're violent and argumentative. But a white guy, well, you're just it's the marketplace of ideas. [ __ ]
>> He just wants to be a great man. He It's just great.
>> Father was a Harus's father was an adviser to the Nazi party and he himself was Hitler Youth. Now, he wasn't
>> Alex Karp, you said, studied under him.
>> Well, try him.
>> He goes, it's actually very funny. Um, uh, Mora Wiggle, who founded, uh, Logic magazine, I believe is what it's called, and she's a a very brilliant writer. She kind of like dissected his his whole career because for a lot of a long time, a lot of people thought, oh, he studied under under Hobus. He's like this he's connected to the Frankfurt School and this that well that's like partly true. He did go there and he did have many conversations. Uh, but he tried to write this dissertation um he about aggression a bunch of other things too that it's very jargony literally um and Hobbus said explicitly to him he faxed him a three-page takedown of his f one of his first drafts of his dissertation that said you are not like interesting enough to ever be taken seriously on this you won't even be able to compete with like literary critics and it's it was so bad that Hobus said I will not mentor you for your dissertation and that's how
>> yes Alex carp and
>> that is so funny
>> THAT'S SO GOOD
>> HOLY [ __ ]
>> and this definitely is a sticking point for him he he did eulogize how he died recently and he did talk about that how the the pain of that like stuck with him of course it stung um
>> but he was like I was actually grateful because it was like you know this foundational moment for me for like realizing that I would never be like an academic and I had to become a builder or something like that. You It's just they I don't know. I'm like I The other thing is is you hear something like that. Every great artist story you hear like that usually ends with them continuing.
>> So they're like, "Yeah, I believe in myself."
>> Michael Jordan didn't make the team, but he did, you know, go to the Bulls or or Brian Wilson got the F in music class, but wrote Pet Sounds. Uh, he decided to make like Hitler Salesforce.
>> Just a very specific period of time as well. Gino Smith said, "They wrote me off. If I didn't write back, let's not think about
>> 18 months.
>> Yeah, let's not think about the next part there. Anyway, let's move on to point number three. Free email is not enough. The decadence of a ci a culture or civilization and indeed its ruling class will be forgiven only if that culture is capable of delivering economic growth and security for the public. I was with him right up until that word security.
>> Moment I hear the word security, I'm like, "Oh, you don't mean social services, do you?" No, no, no, no, no, no. I I do find this one interesting overall though because I think you're right up until that last moment. But I think it's like a sort of uh admission on some level that he knows that there was like some sort of level of revolt against the like techno like techno billionaire class and that they're like you know like like we're like I I think it's interesting that he is at least aware that something has to be done like a little bit more than just like oh you can talk on chat GPT or whatever. But but again, of course, I think especially as we continue to go through this, I think a throughine of all of this is how militar like how militaristic minded it is and like hard power and like sort of like I would say tech technofascist or tech technofudal or whatever you want to like whatever word you want to use for this minded this is
>> yeah, I I'm not trying to to like well actually June a lot of people will say technofascism and like if you were to like I don't know use Alberto Eko's you are a fascism framework for this it checks boxes for I would just say that like maybe the way I think the better way to frame this is for Alex Karp's thinking is like a cold war style liberal.
>> Okay. You know what I mean?
>> Yeah. Expand on that.
>> So, yeah, go on. I I think I might know what you mean, but
>> because he's essentially saying he we the the tech industry needs to become the new defense sector and we have great enemies like China. You know what I mean?
>> I think that there's very serious uh concerns. I'm not saying it's good or better. It's just, you know, when you think of like what fascism is and uh what he's arguing for, there's it's I just think that if you are interested in having a clear out understanding of what he's saying so you can take it down better. It's I think that's maybe a little bit better of a framework of all.
>> I mean, I think you're right. I I think it's in this as well later on. He talks about explicitly how the previous like era is ending, the the post-atomic era is ending and how this is like the new AI era. And of course, he wants to be on the ground floor of that. He wants to have that control on that level with him and his buddies. All right. So number four, the limits of soft power of soaring rhetoric alone have been exposed. The ability of free and democratic societies to prevail requires something more than moral appeal. It requires hard power. And hard power in this century will be built on software. Very self- serving.
>> Yeah.
>> Just like ah, you know something's not working but this other thing that I make. What do you think? What the f? That one is just like, yeah, we that one is built to be in that. It reminds me of every college philosophy student I've ever made where they say things that are built to kind of tweak your brain and go, "Damn, that guy's smart." When you actually think about them, don't mean a single [ __ ] thing. What do you mean soft power? Cuz if the argument was, see, we're falling into the trap here. If the argument was that the quorum alone doesn't work,
>> yeah, that's true. If you if your thing is just someone will obey the rules always, yeah, Trump has proven that isn't the case. Just ignore him. I don't think that's what he means. I think what he's saying is that saying you have guns isn't enough. You need evil Salesforce.
>> Like that's that really doesn't feel to be and and yeah, I don't know. I just I read this sentence, I'm like this guy's [ __ ] stupid.
>> It's like the interesting thing about this too is because most people generally don't like Palanteer and they never say what the company itself is. If you read this and don't quite know what this is, it makes it sound like they're like a weapons manufacturer. Like the way they're talking about like hard power, this will be the hard power that we need to rule the next century. And it's like I I mean obviously they work with the CIA, they work with Israel, they do have these connections in these very hard power states where they are just very fine with triple tapping children's elementary schools in Iran. And they're like, I mean, ethics, who I don't know about that. Like who who cares? We shouldn't care about that. That's that's weak thinking. That's soft thinking. So I think I think that's like a part of it there too. But it's but it's also like no one knows what this is. Like no one no one knows this this isn't I I think on a level they're sort of drinking their own Kool-Aid in a sense of just like how much of this will be like the next atomic era. I do think a lot of this is uh dangerous especially with propaganda you know uh like the amount of propaganda you can do just like blast out with AI generally or some of this stuff. But I I I think they're I mean he's trying to huff he's trying to get everyone to huff his own glue at the same time together.
>> What's it's funny you'd mentioned the AI weapons thing because the next one number five is the question is not whether AI weapons will be built, it's who will build them and for what purpose. Our adversaries will not pause to indulge in theatrical debates about the merits of developing technologies with critical military and national security applications. They will proceed. So what's great about this is
>> we do know who's building them and we do know how that's going. Poorly badly badly enough that Andrew had to pull out of Ukraine. Sorry. I mean, they were kicked out. Um, I didn't know that.
>> And also, yeah, numerous government agencies, Wall Street Journal reported this. Also, they lose billions of dollars, but that's cool, I guess.
>> It's just like it's like it's not it's not a question whether AI weapons Yeah, they're being built already. That happened already. And it's nothing to do with generative AI.
>> It's nothing to do with large language models. If you had a large language model trying control something, it wouldn't move because they can't do it. It would be a [ __ ] huge pain in the ass. But let's move on to number six. National service should be a universal duty. We should as a society seriously consider moving away from an allv volunteer force and only fight the next war if everyone shares in the risk and cost.
>> What are you [ __ ] talking about? We do share in the cost.
>> Also also we do share in the cost. We pay taxes.
>> Yeah.
>> I think it's even sinister though. I think he's talking about the Israeli IDF conscription system. He wants everyone, I think that's what what he's saying here, to be involved in the military or or like auxiliary to it in the way that Israel is because like you know how it is whenever you talk about like I keep bringing up Israel because I think I think a lot of this at least when I read this I'm like oh my god this this is like Israeli playbook on so many different levels here especially this one where it's like everyone is involved in the war crimes. So, like if you talk to any person from Israel, most of the time they they'll be like, "Well, my family was on the IDF. You can't hate all of the IDF. You can't hate all Israelis." But they were all in the IDF. It's like that's sort of I think the buyin that he wants the country to have. This is the point. I think a lot of this was really bad when I was first reading this, but I got the point six and I was like, "Okay, Palanteer is sort of like they should be viewed as an enemy of of modern society. They they they want us to go to like a wartime economy. They want us to like move towards this idea that every like war time is normal and it should be good because it benefits their bottom line.
>> I And that's the thing. I've read a decent amount of people heard a decent amount of people that saying that Silicon Valley is trying to jump into defense because they're running out of [ __ ] to sell.
>> Yeah. Uh, Google just signed a deal with I think some part like I think there's there's some part of the government maybe I need to look if it's CBP or whatever but like they just signed a secretive deal and 500 people signed a petition.
>> Yeah. I saw that they were like
>> it's like um we're not in the business of surveillance and it's like [ __ ] what do you think this is? Other than other than Google Max.
>> Yeah.
>> Other than every Google ad product.
>> Other than that,
>> they're fine with that surveillance, but this surveillance.
>> Number seven's a classic. If a US Marine asks for a better rifle, we should build it. Which is really funny if you know a single thing about the government's relationship with gun companies, considering that I forget the there was a specific gun built for the military that just did not work out. Like that's happened many times before.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. It's like but also we should try as a company uh sorry we should try as a country we should as a country Jesus Christ be capable of continuing a debate about the appropriateness of military action abroad while remaining unflinching in our commitment to those we have asked to step into harm's way like fine
>> I mean, he's still stuck in there. He's like, we should do better. We'll do better. We'll be just like the the the military
>> public number eight public servants need to need not be our priests. Any business that compensated its employees in the way that the federal government compensates public service servants would struggle to survive. All right. What do you mean?
>> My interpretation here is do you remember when Elon Musk bought Twitter and it was a sort of pandemonium and he was like, "You guys have to work for 12 hours. You have to sleep here. If you don't do these things, we're laying you off. This is like this is this is going to be hard actual real work. Like no more sitting around on bouncy balls anymore. No, no bouncing on those bouncy balls in the office anymore. This is like this is what you do to get decently. It's like basically what he's I think I think what he's trying to say is that's just going to be the norm. That should be the norm in maybe tech companies, but more broadly that that should be like the the line of thinking for people that own companies at the top. This should be the like top down approach to run a company efficiently.
>> But I I think he might also be saying that public servants are underpaid, which I kind of agree with. See, I think he's
>> as long as you're not in Congress and have stocks, in which case you're overcompensated.
>> I think he's sort of low-key [ __ ] on the government as a whole here.
>> He's doing that and he's also um targeting academia. He talks about he has a
>> since like the u I think his like schism from a lot of things comes from like the campus protests um post October 7th and um
>> he has since I mean if you listen don't but if you do listen to that Barry Weiss conversation you know he talks about um, you know this a lot to the you know a bunch of farm animal sounds from the crowd because they recorded it live um about how like you, you know, we can't college. He's basically his, "Oh, well, you can't have like queer interpretive dance therapy classes if the government's going to pay for it." And, you know, these college professors are trying to, you know, if we're giving them public funds, we have to kind of hold them to a different standard and stuff like that, too. So, I think it definitely applies to bureaucrats, but just it's important to remember that he hates he's he hates woke college campuses or whatever.
>> I I knew he was like sort of nominally pro-Israel. I mean, they've Palanteer's worked with Israel for since 2014, so I knew that, but
>> extreme Zionist. I I didn't realize he made such an explicit turn from like sort of I guess it sounds like a liberal Zionism to a very hardline sort of faright type Zionism in the last couple years. I I was not aware of that shift of his.
>> Yeah,
>> I support Irish Zionism from Connor.
>> I started uh don't worry, I started doing my own blanket tours a couple of weeks ago. Don't worry.
>> Okay, so moving on. Number nine. Number nine. We should show far more grace towards those who have subjected themselves to public life. A
>> the eradication of any space for forgiveness, a jettisoning of any tolerance for the complexities and contradictions of the human psyche may leave us with a cast of characters the helm we will grow to regret. Just to be clear, last year, Alex Cop suggested that analysts that disagree with Palanteer should be sprayed with fentinyl laced urine
>> from drones. It's just the same guy.
>> It's so hard. It's so hard with cancel culture, you know? It's really hard with these big [ __ ] tough guys who go like I'M SO [ __ ] TOUGH. I'm so strong and big and tough. Don't hurt my feelings. Don't be mean to me. Okay. Have some forgiveness, you piece of [ __ ] [ __ ]
>> You know, it's really hard on us when we press the button that kills 180 school children. Have you thought about us? Have you really thought about that when you criticize us for doing that? How that makes us feel?
>> Have you thought about the fact that I'm worth so much money and I make money constantly and the things I make money for kill people and I go out and I say noxious, horrible things all the time and the people that I p around with are horrible, too. And they say equally noxious, if not more noxious things. And I'm disgusting and mean and cruel in everything I do and say. I encourage people to act in the same way. Have you considered for a second that if you were not mean to me, things would be better?
>> It It drives me crazy how all of these people are are simultaneously tough guys, but the whiniest [ __ ] babies of all time. I saw someone online talk about like, "Yeah, wow. Ever since Trump became elected, I've noticed that like all of a sudden all of a sudden right-wingers whine a lot." And it's like, [ __ ] they've always been like this. Like this is their their operating uh like this is how they operate. This is what they do. They they whine. They whine until they get what they want and then they whine about getting what they want.
>> I forget where's the I think it's Caleb Pitts maybe. He has a great uh standup comedy thing where he's walking around bald guy and he has I eat [ __ ] tattooed in his head and he w looks at the camera goes guess who just got kicked out of a cafe for being white and you guys being white.
>> I love it.
>> It's just that every day.
>> Yeah. I think that this one and into the next point too are kind of connected in that kind of haram sense of like you have to be able to like discourse. You have to be able to debate and fight on the forums with people that you disagree with. And like if you cancel your opponents, you'll have no one left to argue with, right? And that argument is I'm not I'm I'm joking a little bit, but that is like central to his like core ideological belief.
>> Yeah. It's it's amazing how many people like get Twitter psychosis and bring it out into like everything they do in real life. It's it's astounding. So, point number 10, as we've kind of hit it, the psychologization of modern politics is leading us astray. Those who look to the political arena to nourish their soul and sense of self, who rely too heavily on their internal life finding expression in people they have never met, will be left disappointed. Well, I mean, I give him that one, but also I'm not sure he realizes the actual problem.
>> When I read when I read this, I have you guys seen this new phrase that's been that's uh Elon Musk helped blow up in the last like year or so, the suicidal empathy thing. Have you have you guys seen that?
>> It's basically this concept where that if you care too much about other people, you will always like like the way it's traditionally used is like, oh, you care about Palestinian people. Uh, you think that they should have rights, but have you thought about white people? Like you're you're sacrificing white people for like thinking about like trans rights. Trans rights are taking so much away from like cis people. It's basically the the concept of if you care so much about other people, you will shrink the majority white like rights essentially. Are you suggesting that everyone would have equality? I think not.
>> You're suggesting that the people who have too much and the people who have too little would have similar amounts of stuff. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
>> It's so adjacent to like white supremacy and like the great replacement theory. It's like super adjacent to all that type of [ __ ] But I I just can't help but think of this. It's like he I you know I think Caleb, you're 100% right. It's adjacent to to number nine in in that in that same way that that you were outlining before. But I also think it's it's sort of this thing where it's like we can't really care about people too much. We really can't care about the consequences that might hurt like I don't know gay people or whoever. Like that's like sort of that's that's missing the forest for the trees for them is like what they're thinking. 11 point 11 is our society has grown too eager to hasten and is often gleeful at the demise of its enemies.
>> Exactly. All of these are
>> of an oppo opponent is a moment to pause not rejoice.
>> Well, have you talked to your customers about this? Have you have you have you done a little bit of customer experience work, Alex? I'm not sure customers would agree. It's also just like very funny because this is someone who laughs at his enemies suffering. He laughs he takes glee in the suffering of those he disagrees with in that um same Barry Weiss interview. He I think the term that he used and I may be wrong, but no one's going to listen to this to correct me anyway, so I'll just say it. Um he said something along the lines of like America should take pride when it uses force because we're a just nation or something like that.
>> Oh my god.
>> Jesus Christ. Okay. I feel like that word pride probably not something that come out of his mouth.
>> I It's also just wild especially this year as recent as as of like 3 months ago. And I and I think the reason for this is he doesn't view these people like as enemies even though you know the way that ICE I'm talking about the way that ICE uses Palunteer to like find uh find people to deport scans regions and I think they use like some face scanning system in their database that ICE has as well where it's like people are so gleeful whenever people get deported. They're [ __ ] over the moon. They post about it. the government accounts on social media post like epic aura Gen Z brain rot edits about deportation so
>> embarrassing but I think to finish this thought they don't see that as like demise of enemies there that is not what I think they think but go on sorry yeah
>> yeah, you're you're totally fine. I I'm not saying I agree with cart but he specifically about ICE his point was
>> you know if you are somebody who's concerned with this you would want Palunteer to succeed because then that means we only deport people who deserve it, who have done crimes. I mean, [ __ ]
>> So, again, I I'm just saying I'm not saying I agree with him, but what I am saying is it matters because he does believe he's high on his own supply, right?
>> Yeah. No, I think you're so right. I I always go back and forth on what whether these tech people truly believe the things that they say. I I think Elon Musk probably on most degrees does. I think he bullshits a lot. But I think I think you're right. I think just in this recording, I think you've completely convinced me that Alex Karp absolutely does. Believe there are some elements of cynicism to this, but most of this I think he does believe and I would say I would agree with you on on Elon when he's talking about how like empathy is a bug or something like that. Um, I'm not a psychologist and I'm not even frankly that smart, but um he has this kind of like an attachment style because of his abusive father that I think necessitates that he sort of intellectualize or abstracts concepts like empathy to such a degree that he would say, you know, I have empathy for mankind but not on the individual and it's a societal bug. Right.
>> Yeah. It's a weakness, a sign of weakness to have empathy.
>> Correct. because because he can't he can't negotiate with or engage with with empathy like a person who hasn't experienced abuse from a terrible father could. Right.
>> I don't know. I I don't feel like Elon believes in anything. I genuinely think that
>> I think that Oh, I think he has deep-seated racism. I truly like he's a sexist. Absolutely. But I don't think he's sitting there and is like could explain all sorts of deep sincere thoughts. I think it's whatever would get him what he wanted. If there was a Democrat in power giving him everything he wanted, he would be the
>> Obama.
>> He'd be Well, I mean, I said Democrat.
>> we're getting political, aren't we?
>> Are you a political episode?
>> Yeah. There we go. No, it it's just it's just I've watched this this guy for years and just he used to be an epic bacon science guy.
>> Yeah,
>> he was an epic bacon science guy
>> and he's he's now just like he sits online with too much money being like I will Yes. Yes. Horse idiot 52. I agree. It is time for the great cleansing.
>> It's just and the even with this list it's like Alex Cop, you run a software company, mate. You're not president. You're not even a politician. You got like you didn't get into racism school. Like I like what? Like what? Who gives a [ __ ] what you think? You make evil Salesforce. Like who? So, okay. Number five.
>> This is maybe a better question for the end, but I I I've I've just been thinking why and we're only halfway through, but like why did they post this? Like it's a like they're trying to make like from the I can actually tell you. So, from a client perspective, this is some [ __ ] that you'll send at 5:00 in the morning on a Sunday or a Saturday, like a Sunday morning. You get this and the client's like, "I'm going to put this up on Monday.
>> We'll put this I'm put this." So, where is it? April 18th, this is posted. Let's see what day this was.
>> Okay.
>> Oh, [ __ ] yeah. This is posted on a Saturday. We got this on a Friday. So yeah, some poor PR person got a [ __ ] an email Friday at like 700 p.m. 8:00 p.m. and he's at he's like with his wife and kids trying to eat dinner. He's like, "I'm going to post this tomorrow. I'm going to post this." It was posted at 11:45 a.m.
>> Okay. So So okay, so he's talking like uh was that 8:45 a.m. Eastern uh Pacific? Anyway, putting all that aside, so this was just I'm going to post this tomorrow. And the guy was probably like, "Well, Alex, it's not got any formatting or numbers. It's just a block of text. We should at least put it in a numbered list." Go, "Well, okay. Okay, I need to post this now. Post it tomorrow." And it was probably the thought was, "Okay, this will go out on a Saturday." I can convince him. Yeah, you should post it immediately on the Saturday so everyone misses it. Except the problem is is that everyone saw it because it's the [ __ ] Hunter account. But it's just no this is a this is client's gone wild.
>> This is client client has an idea that they are 100 you could not a client sends you something like this you could not talk them away from it. You can put a gun to their head. They'll they'll say kill me the blog.
>> Isn't this just a summary of the main points of Alex Karp's book that came out like a year ago. Like this is like Yeah. This is a summary. This is a summary of of one of his books. Essentially all the
>> I didn't realize he had a [ __ ] book. Oh yeah, he did. He wrote power soft Belief. Enough about um it's um
>> Do you know who that guy is, Caleb? Have you ever looked into the Nicholas Zamins Zamisa? Yeah.
>> He's the He's the like legal coun.
>> He's their lawyer.
>> Oh, damn.
>> He's the [ __ ] lawyer. Honestly, if I was if I worked at Palanteer and I was thinking who should co-write this, I would say a lawyer. I'd be like, "Yeah, yeah, yeah." You should have a lawyer read every word. It's just just in case, especially every 14th word, if you know what I mean. Uh, but okay, we move on. Number 12, the atomic age is ending.
>> Once an age of deterrence, the atomic age once one age of deterrence, the atomic age, comma, is ending, comma, and a new era of deterrence built on AI is set to begin. No, it is not.
>> Just No.
>> Yeah. No, it's not. What are you talking about? What do you mean? Uh, chatbot. Because if we're talking about AI powered databases, if we're talking about like databases of people, pre-rime and that, we have [ __ ] compass since the 80s. We have had algorithms for pre-rime since the 80s. We have had the [ __ ] promise software was the underlying thing. Back door is real. Like, it's a crazy story. Um, you should look at the promise software. You're going
>> Don't do it. It'll ruin your life. It will ruin your life.
>> I I have a I have a hobby for the rest of the day.
>> It will [ __ ] you up big time. Um, big up to my girlfriend for telling me on that one. Um, that what like we have had this already. Like if we're talking about AI pre-rime surveillance, we've had this already. What are we talking about? But because AI is the new bing bong that everyone must jerk off. It's like, okay, yeah, well now it's a that you know what? That's a classic client point as well. That is actually it's like we need to get Oh, this is a really good point. Yeah, we should add AI at the end. What do you mean? What? What do you mean AI? I'm not really sure how that What does the AI deter? How does it deter? What's it deterring? And like is the idea that we'll be able to generate more nudes like but the Chinese already have seen
>> develop undetectable deep fakes of Kim Jong-un or whatever. Like what's the what are we doing? Like what's the point of this? will be a generate epic bacon memes of our adversaries. Despite
>> I love that he wrote this um timing wise was not that far after when do you remember you guys remember this? This is a really small blip on their radar but it stuck with me
>> was when they when RFK was like oh the department of of health or whatever we're releasing our own like health AI bot. Do you remember that?
>> No, I missed that. Oh my god.
>> Yeah. The first thing I did on there I was like I asked it what kind of rocks are the most nutritious to eat? smiley face and it gave me A LIST OF ROCKS. WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? THE atomic age of of AI. Come on.
>> No, I think I think this Yeah, this gives the game away that they're like, "Actually, can we have the spotlight now, please?" Like, it's like if we get the spotlight, we'll survive as companies. Like, just keep funneling us all of this money. Keep keep shoveling it over. Keep
>> the stock price high.
>> Yeah. Like, we need that. Yeah. Keep Yeah, keep going.
>> This next point is the funniest. No other country in the history of the world has advanced progressive values more than this one. The United States is far from perfect, but it is easy to forget how much more opportunity exists in this country for those who are not hereditary elites than in any other nation on the planet.
>> God damn, dude. I guess if you're maybe talking about Russia currently, maybe
>> like if that's the only other country in the world. Sure. He defines pro progressive values in this statement as like non- herereditary elites becoming CEOs. That's not what most people would define as like a progressive value, right? Definitely.
>> It just that kind of gives away the game.
>> Also, just like what does he mean based on like the history of America? I wouldn't say like I I think it was more defined as a battle against progressive values in some cases. history of Portland, for example.
>> Look into the Portland Police Department. Oh, I don't know. Look at the current police department of pretty much every city. And I mean even just the police department, just the government actively currently trying to erase history of like like black history like LGBTQ history like erasing it off of monuments and take like taking away monuments in some cases, erasing it from school systems and like I don't think it's true like like I don't Yeah, it's just not necessarily true. Like we we are still a lot of people love to be like
Wow, like, we, like, whenever, whenever you talk about, like, Palestine, it's like, "Oh, well, you're you're gay and you support Palestine." They, they'd throw you off roofs. False, first of all. Second of all, you, it was illegal. You could not gay marry in this country until 10 years ago. It's like, like, what are we talking about? People were killed for being gay on the streets 30 years ago in this country. Like, what are we talking about here?
Like, sure, we have a police force arresting people of color arbitrarily. Yeah. It's like, we are sure, like, I'll, I guess I'll hand it to him. We are far from perfect, but I think we're further from perfect than we've done things, but we also seem to be trying to undo those. Anyway, don't worry. We've got another really smart boy coming up.
Number 14. American power has made possible an extraordinarily long peace. Too many have forgotten, or perhaps taken for granted, that nearly a century of some version of peace has prevailed in the world without a great power military conflict. What the [ __ ] you peace for? Who? Peace for who? Peace for three generations. Billions of people and their children and their grandchildren have never known a world war. Literally, those are the only wars that have happened in the last hundred years. There's like a, there's a trillion of them. We've sent so, the United States alone have started what, like, 10, 12, 13 wars since World War II. We've killed so many people. That's all I have to say.
A million people. Like, a minimum a million people in in Jakarta. Like, with the the amount of terror we have reigned on the world. It's like, sure, it's not war for us. It's not war on our territory. It's not war on our ground. But it is war. It is devastation. It is terrorism across the world. It's perpetual. There's been war everywhere. Yeah. If you're a [ __ ] ignorant monster, if you want to pretend that like America has been in a war the whole time as. Yeah. Anyway, here's another great point. There's also a different countries also doing wars. Like, I don't know, like, there is not long peace. Sorry. Yes. It don't matter none. You know what's a little while it's over there and anyway.
Number 15. Post-war, the post-war neutering of Germany and Japan must be undone. The defanging of Germany was an overcorrection for which Europe is now paying a heavy price. A similar and highly theatrical commitment to Japanese pacifism will, if maintained, also threaten to shift the balance of power in Asia. What are you talking about? What are you talking about? What are you talking? I like this idea that if Japan could have a military, they're their problems. They're like, everything that's going wrong in Japan right now would be fine.
I think it's a, it's a, it's a counterbalance to China, is what he's getting at. I do, I do agree with that, but I just don't understand what a military of the size of Japan could do to like, at this point, especially like, even just giving him like, let's say today they could, you know, build up a military. What, what are they going to like, how is that going to change the current situation? I don't, I think it's just like the, the, the word "overcorrection" too, I think is very telling. It's like, okay, you don't really have. It's interesting that he came from a prog. Yeah. Germany. I think it's interesting that you have laid out that he's sort of come from like a more left-leaning sort of history because this is not something I would imagine someone, and again, he changed more recently, but like Germany and Japan, especially, it's like, I feel like everyone knows why they cannot have military support happened. Alex. Yeah. What happened in the '40s? You know, I can't speak to to Japan despite, you know, the obvious kind of surface level that's a counterbalance to China, uh, in his, you know, his history and I don't know if the book, I haven't finished the book yet. I'm still reading it, but, um, in his life, he did go to Germany and I think he moved for for school in the '80s, um, or early '90s when he was studying there. Um, and a lot of his his politics and the things that he believed in are a sort of direct confrontation of like post-war Germany and the things that he saw in that society. It's very interesting and just, I think that he saw, he, he really, and this is a Hobbes thing too, of like, what kind of national identity should Germans have in the wake of this, you know, existential death of humanity that informs Karp's thinking quite a bit. And, um, when you think about his whole idea is like, aggression is social cohesion. It starts to make sense when he says, well, maybe Germany should be allowed to have a military. It's kind of, to be clear, I don't, he's not a Nazi, he's Jewish, but, um, it's still very kind of [ __ ] crazy to to think about this, especially when you think about how openly he engages with fascist and Nazi ideals, you know, again, from the point of argument as as a reasoning tool, but still, it's like, hm.
I mean, I think we're going to get up to a point fairly soon, sort of related to this in that way, but like, I, I think it's interesting that a lot of tech people in the United States in in like the last couple of years have started doing this thing where it's like, we unapologetically do this. We unapologetically believe this. Like they're, they're like, there's like this shame, like where this, they like you cannot have shame for anything you ever do. You cannot be introspective. Like Mark Andreessen, he was talking about like, oh, you know, it's like, it's so, it's, it's a weakness to have introspection. I, I think that's sort of linked to that in that way where it's like, we can't apologize for our like actions or whatever, you know. Yeah. It's, isn't that a Roger Stone thing as well? Like, never apologize. Like that. Yeah. Oh my god. Supposedly it is. It probably came from him, to be honest. Yeah. They don't have ideas. But let's go on to one of the other ones they claim to have.
Number 16. We should applaud those who attempt to build where the market has failed to act. The culture almost snickers at Musk's interest in grand narrative, as if billionaires ought to simply stay in their lane of enriching themselves. Any curiosity or genuine interest in the value of what he has created is essentially dismissed or perhaps lurks from beneath a thinly veiled scorn. That would suggest he's created something. Now, Ed, I'm not an expert in this, uh, field. Maybe this is a question for you, but wasn't Elon Musk forced to purchase Twitter because he made an epic meme? Cuz he made, he was epic and based and said, "I will buy this." And then when he tried to pull that out, they were like, "No, you agreed to buy this [ __ ] website. [ __ ] Give us the money." Mr. Dr. Karp, excuse me. Also, let's talk about some of the things that Elon Musk has talked about. Robots doesn't exist. Robo taxis doesn't exist. Uh, Tesla Roadster with rockets on it doesn't exist. Just like the reason people snicker and jeer Elon Musk is he says something will happen and then it doesn't. And then he's like, "Well, it's, uh, it's delayed until, uh, the the year of the vase tiger." He's just like, and everyone just goes, "Okay, well, if we had a functioning business in tech media, they would stop printing what he says." My god. But they would just go like, "Oh yeah, this guy is lying." But it's funny because this is this only ever comes from incurious dullards. It's never people who create a lot of stuff who are like, "Hey, Elon Musk's [ __ ] trying, okay? He's trying to create something where you sit here from the peanut gallery. It's never like artists or writers who have like written meaningful [ __ ] or like authors. It's always guys like this, executives of software companies who could be replaced with anyone. Like, let's be honest, like what makes Alex Karp uniquely the person to run Palantir? There's probably 18 different Lockheed Martin gargoyles or [ __ ] former Hanover executives who could be slotted in and we would never know the difference other than the fact that we wouldn't have to [ __ ] hear from them all the time. Cuz you notice we don't hear from [ __ ] Lockheed Martin CEO. We don't hear from the CEO of RTX, Raytheon. We don't hear from these people. We don't know who they are because they don't go. Raytheon is not sitting around being like, "What's our social strategy?" Well, they actually have a social strategy. It's very funny and they love to post like LGBTQ awareness, which is really [ __ ] crazy. Uh, but.
I love when they're like, "We're the greatest company for gay people out there. We're rated number one." And it's like, all right. But nevertheless, like you don't have RTX's CEO going around being like, "Here's what I think about social justice." It, they just, they're like, "We make bombs. We make bombs and the software behind bombs. And if you need to kill someone, call RTX. We will blow them up big time. What's it going to cost? More than you think and more than we say." It's, it's been really interesting. Palantir, especially in the in the last year, sort of make this bigger presence of themselves with like this manifesto and Alex Karp going on these like speaking tours. And I believe it was a New York Times page ad where it was, uh, a couple of weeks ago that was like, "Palantir supports Israel." They are purposefully like putting themselves in the limelight and getting all of like all of this attention and and it's attention. It's the attention economy. Yeah. It's interesting too because he's been the CEO, I think for 18 years and nobody had ever heard of him until recently. He's actually been quietly, I would say, smartly, just building relationships with various governments and alphabet agencies around the world and such and kind of kept to himself. And I, I've often thought that his proximity and relationship to academia has been able to sort of ingratiate himself with these types of people that are in these positions and that's how he's been so successful. Um, I, I don't know what it is. I'm still kind of trying to to.
I can explain. He saw all the attention that Elon Musk got and that Peter Thiel has got by saying like, "Yeah, the Antichrist, right?" Or like, "What if we ban women?" Like, whatever they're saying. And he was like, "Yeah, cool. I want to do this. It's like, I want to be popular, too." And also, now's the time because all these people want to be statesmen. SBF, Sam, Mr. Bankman-Fried, he was kind of early in that. He wanted to be a statesman. He wanted to be seen as like an elder statesman. And you kind of seen it with Elon, except I say this with no respect to government officials. He lacks the decorum. He lacks the grace. He, he just, he doesn't function or talk like a politician and he doesn't know how to do it. They don't know how to dress as well. This is such a really small thing, but go and find the picture from the dinner with Trump and look at Elon Musk's shoes. And look at the break. He wore a shirt backwards when he was doing his little X jump, whatever. You remember that? But it's just like, go and look at their shoes. Look, I'm not even being the menswear guy here. Look at the break on their pants. It's really uneven. This is something that you can solve when you have a billion dollars. You go to Savile Row in London and you go, "Here is my credit card. Don't worry about whatever you put on it. Just give me the perfect looking suit." And they'll [ __ ] do it. You will find anyone. You can find them in New York, find them any city, they're everywhere. You have enough money, you could probably just have them fly. Like they could do one in a day. They could buy the factory. You could do it. But they just don't really give a [ __ ]. What they want to do is skip all the hard part of, you know, learning and being a person and growing so they can just be famous. And they've realized that that works. You can just go and blah blah racism, blah blah blah blah, Pax Americana, manifest destiny. I've learned these terms yesterday from Wikipedia and I forgot what they mean. Blah. And it's, they will do that enough times. The problem is the reason they seem so frantic and tired is because there's nothing behind it. They don't give a [ __ ] about this. Where are we even on in this [ __ ] list? Um, oh, here we go. Here we go.
Point 17. Silicon Valley must play a role in addressing violent crime. Many politicians across the United States have essentially shrugged when it comes to violent crime, banning any serious efforts to address the problem or take on any risk with the constituencies or donors in coming up with solutions and experiments in what should be a desperate bid to save lives. Surveillance state. Yay. And also, um, this is a person that does not believe that, uh, social services are part of that. Violent crime in San Francisco comes from Ronald Reagan emptying the [ __ ] homeless people. People that became homeless, I should say, from mental asylum that he closed. Watch Deadly Class. Great show.
Have you, have you ever watched Southland Tales, either of you? Oh, yes, of course. Do you, do you remember like throughout the movie there just will be points where where some like just different things will pop off and there's it'll it'll cut to military people on roofs with the machine guns and they'll just like shoot people from the roofs. That's like what he wants. He wants the machine guns on the roof with just like soldiers always watching. That's like that, that's that's that's what this point is is sampling. Tales, that movie Sarah Michelle Gellar is in it as a porn star and the one thing I remember is she has is in a movie called [ __ ] Chuggers too. [ __ ] Chuggin. To be clear, Sarah Michelle Gellar, amazing actress, but just like [ __ ] hilarious. Everyone should watch Southland Tales, by the way. It is a insane movie and panned at the time, but I think especially these days, it is very prescient. I think very, uh, you'll be like, "God damn, people didn't like this back in the day." It's very, it's a very camp. No, I can get why people didn't like it. It is insane. It is. Scene between scene, you're like, "What? What is happening?" Anyway, if only his worldview was that coherent, cuz what he believes it is that he wants to put the homeless people in the embrace of God. He wants to shoot them. He wants to jail them, which I'm sure will solve the prison population issue we have. Wonder how he feels about prisons, by the way. I don't know. I, he probably loves them. I'm guessing because the solution is always more software, more jail, more gun. It's never like more home, because that's a really good way of dealing with homeless people. You give them a path out of transience because they have mental health issues caused by the fact they don't have a place to sleep or a place to go to the bathroom other than their trousers. And these people are suffering and they're hurting. And the way that people deal with them is to hurt them more versus, and oh, it costs a lot of money. Yeah, it does to pull someone out of hell. And if you are someone listening to this, by the way, who has a view of homeless people where it's like, "Oh, they need to be moved away." You're a [ __ ] [ __ ] and a loser and a coward. Homeless people are victims of society. They are society owes them a debt, not the other way around. And the idea that someone needs to work enough for social services is a joke. Anyway, that's my little sandbox there. Really pissed. Oh, sorry.
Yeah, go on Caleb. It's hard to say what he believes in since his sort of schism, but I do think it's worth noting that he has talked about social services and these programs pretty extensively in the past. Um, he just thinks that Palantir specifically will make them better. Uh, for whatever that's. Of course they will. Yeah. I, I, I think that he does believe, uh, because again, he, he's over the years described himself as various times, you know, a social something, Democrat, liberal, this, neo-Marxist, whatever. Um, he does believe in these things. I just think that he's, um, sort of this eccentric, uh, megalomaniacal freak that, "I alone can improve these problems." Like Boris Badenov of The Ninth Gate. "I alone am worthy." But let's move on. Bitcoin will fix this.
All right. Well, let's go to point 18, which is a real banger. 18. The ruthless exposure of the private lives of public figures drives far too much talent away from government service. The public arena, and the shallow and petty assaults against those who dare to do something other than enrich themselves has become so unforgiving that the Republic is left with a significant roster of ineffectual empty vessels whose ambition, one would forgive if there were any genuine belief structure lurking within. And that is exactly how that's written. He just got let that typo go right through. If there were any genuine belief structure. Look, I don't know. I, I, this is about a mate of his.
But this is like. Don't look at the Epstein files. That's a long way to say to not do that. Yeah. Don't look at the Epstein files. Don't look at whether Reid Hoffman, CEO of LinkedIn, endorsed Jeffrey Epstein, which he did. Uh, we don't know what for. I've asked. I haven't got a comment back. But anyway, let's move on. I just want to say really quick, sorry, really quick. Just that like, it's so funny to say this, but also be like, you're in the, uh, anti-Zoran Mamani. He's like, Zoran Mamani, none of this, none of the things you want will ever work. He's bad. He's evil. He's bad. So it's like, he already like within just like one second of looking at some of his new opinions, even like a couple of days later or like a couple of months after this or before this, sorry. Are. You suggesting a conservative leader is a hypocrite? Um, yeah. Are hypocrite much? Hypocrite much? It's just, it's just it just drives me crazy how all of this, none, none of these people, like I think he does believe this stuff, but he's just so, he is not self-aware in any capacity to where it's like, he, he, he, he says things that can directly contradict some of this manifesto.
Well, 19. The caution in public life that we unwittingly encourage is corrosive. Those who say nothing wrong often say nothing much at all. So that's just about racism. That's just about saying the Osler. That's like, like, it's really like this. He's going to frame this as, oh, it's a philosophical debate, but it's like, no, it's, um, it's not. It's actually, it's actually just someone said the Osler and he wants to protect them. But we got to keep, we've let this one go a little long. So, we're going to move on a little faster because number 20 is a real banger.
The pervasive intolerance of religious belief in certain circles must be resisted. The elite's intolerance of religious belief is perhaps one of the most telling signs that it's a political project. That its political project constitutes a less open intellectual movement than many within it would claim. I would say that there are definitely, um, ways in which religion is pushed out. I don't think those are the ones he's talking about though.
I, I've found it so fascinating in the the last twoish years how a lot of these Silicon Valley tech people have really, whether they are actually really embrace it or not, have like outwardly embraced religion as this new thing that everyone needs to like, you're, you're like a deeper person for for re-embracing religion, you know, like Peter Thiel, all of these people. I, I think it's one of the most fascinating new narratives to come out of Silicon Valley is how they're all Christian all of a sudden and all really love God and all really think that that's more valuable than like anything else. While they talk about how we need more bombs to kill people. They've seen the value of appealing to people who already have like proclivity to dogma baked in, right? Absolutely. It's, it's super beneficial for them. You, if like, I mean, Russell Brand, you, sexual assault, you, you pick up a Bible, everyone, you get a lot of money. Was so funny, by the way. Oh my god. Just flipping through the Bible. Two minutes. Oh my god. Oh, I think it's this one. I think I can't, I can't find it. I can't find the one. And Piers Morgan is like, "Jim facing." Like, it's just. And I watched the whole and all I could think of was, no American would have the balls to do this. No American journalist, I don't love Piers Morgan, but like, no American journalist would ever have the balls to just sit there in complete silence for two minutes as Russell Brand went, "I, is it, is it, is it Isaiah? Is it, is it Isaiah? Is it? Is this the one with the wall in it? Is this the one with the angels that have sex with each other?" I haven't really, I use Grok to read this to me. And it's just, it's like, no, anyone who suddenly becomes religious is extremely suspicious. Never trust anyone. In fact, I know some very spiritual, deeply religious people, people with great faith. And the way they talk about it is just completely different to anyone else he talks about. It's never, it's something for them, not for you. And the moment it becomes something outward is when I get very [ __ ] suspicious. Absolutely.
If you guys know this, you know guys, Bold and I go to church every Sunday, right? That's cool. Do you really? Yeah. Yeah. What kind of church? I didn't know that. [ __ ] Uh, I, I have been going to a Universalist Unitarian church. So, it's like fake church. But yeah. There's nothing fake about it. It's what your faith is. No, I'm, I am like agnostic and I, I have some spiritual, I think my writing is quite spiritual, the process, but it's like nothing with a God or anything. I think people are dismissive of religion in some ways. But this is referring to school protests. This is just, this is just, this is just college campus protest. This is what he's talking about.
All right, we've only got two more of these [ __ ] things. All right, 21. Some cultures have produced vital advances. Others remain dysfunctional and regressive. All cultures are now equal. Criticism and value judgments are forbidden. Yes, this new dogma glosses over the fact that certain cultures and indeed subcultures have produced wonders. Others have proven middling and worse, regressive and harmful. My god. What are you [ __ ] talking? I assume he means Islam. Like, I, I just assume he's referring like, like it's just like, it's like those those brown countries. You go a little south, the the darker the brown, the black countries. That there is there really any wonders there? There's no wonders there. My, uh, my challenge to anybody listening to this is if anybody ever says this to you, and I've seen this framing come up quite a bit more and more increasingly, if somebody says this to you, ask them what they mean and smile, smile in their face and say, "What do you mean by that?" And make them [ __ ] say it. Yeah. I mean, it's so obviously like rooted in that, like, oh, the West, Western values. It's, yeah.
All right, final one. 22. We must resist the shallow temptation of a vacant and hollow pluralism. We in America, and more broadly in the West, have for the past century resisted defining national cultures in the name of inclusivity. But inclusion into what? WE NEED MORE RACISM. WE NEED MORE RACISM. WE NEED transphobia. We need homophobia. We need more bigotry. That's the only way we'll be multicultural. Yeah. Yeah. No, this yet again is sort of like cancel culture [ __ ]. This is this is like suicidal empathy because like, oh, what? Like if we're tolerant of everyone, like what? Like we lose so much. The society that'll lead to societal decline. What if someone's intolerant of me being intolerant? [ __ ] [ __ ].
Well, I will say, and this ends by saying it's an excerpt from the book. So, couldn't probably should have known that before going into it myself. I will say that if I was made to read this book, I would, I would try and poison myself. I, I don't, I don't want to know what these people think. But I think that this kind of, this kind of proves that this is a series of incongruent points written by somebody that can't choose whether they want to be a convenient or inconvenient fascist. Like, do they want, like, they aren't really sure what they believe in other than the fact that someone they like is being oppressed, but the people they don't like aren't being oppressed enough, oppressed enough. It's also like, give us more contracts, give us more money. We want a full wartime economy focused on giving AI companies more money. Um, it's, it's like both of those things. It's, it's sort of this like techno-fascist sort of like, give us money, please. Also, we agree with you on culture war, so please give us more money for that. Yeah.
Well, now that we've gone through that horrible series of points, I want to thank you both for joining. Where can we find you? You can find us at, uh, we do a show called Kill the Computer. You can find us at killthecomputer.com or just any. Amazing website. Yeah. Be our, our community, our, the person that sort of like helps with our community also made the website. She's amazing. She built, I think I'm biased. It's a website for our show, but I think it's one of the most, like, if you love like what the internet used to be, what it could be. Obviously, it's a website for a podcast, but I think it just has the spirit of what the internet still could be. Has games on it, so. There's a leaderboard, like, it's [ __ ] dope. Um, yeah, it's a show about just, uh, uh, like how, um, internet and culture and politics sort of intertwine and and sort of manifest in in the world that we live in, essentially. Um, so we talk about a lot of stuff, like we talked about today. We talk about, um, one of my favorite episodes that we did, uh, a little, little bit ago, was, uh, talking about the, the like death capitalist economy of like, uh, uh, uh. Grief tech. Grief tech. Yeah. Where it's like these these tech companies, how they sort of prey on on people grieving family members dying or or like getting to end of life and and providing these different services that will sort of create fake memories in some cases. They made a chatbot out of your dead grandmother and and they're going to update the model and she'll start hallucinating and you can't afford it and blah, blah, blah. It's just very. It's very. Yeah. No, we, we talk about all sorts of stuff like that. So, please check us out.
Thanks for listening everyone. There'll be a monologue on Friday. You'll love it. I promise. I haven't decided what it is yet. Thank you for listening to Better Offline. I'm goddamn Ed Zitron. Thank you for listening to Better Offline. The editor and composer of the Better Offline theme song is Matasowski. You can check out more of his music and audio projects at matasowski.com. M a tt oso wski.com. You can email me at easy@betteroffline.com or visit betteroffline.com to find more podcast links and of course my newsletter. I also really recommend you go to chat.w's.app to visit the Discord and go to r/betteroffline to check out our Reddit. Thank you so much for listening. Better Offline is a production of Coolzone Media. For more from Coolzone Media, visit our website, coolzonemedia.com, or check us out on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.