Transcription
All right, everybody, let's get started. We've got a special guest today, one of my good friends. It's been about, uh, I've known Spencer for about two years, and we've been kicking this can down the road, so here we are.
Uh, Spencer, in my opinion, I'm going to give you a brief intro of yourself, and you can tell me if I nailed it. I think you have the best home service, scratch that, monkey brain satisfying video content on social media. Period. You got like 120 Instagram followers, uh, a massive like coaching, learning group, uh, and then you specialize in gutter cleaning, uh, roof cleaning, and then Christmas lights and everything else. Uh, you were actually my intro to leveraging social media for my businesses when I was just a ghost doing it all through Google Ads. So I'll always thank you for that. But with that being said, Spencer Clays, welcome to the interview, sir.
Sweet, dude. Glad to be here. Pretty accurate, I'd say.
Okay, cool, cool, cool. So before we go, I have to give you your flowers. So I want to, I want to preface to everybody, uh, Spencer has an Instagram. I bet more than half of the people watching this follow you on Instagram. But I was going through with Spencer when we were offline about how many viral Instagram Reels he has. And like, I have posted 160 Instagram Reels in the last year, and I think my best performing Reel got 30,000 views. And my girlfriend, who has 400,000 followers, reposted it. That's the only reason it got that many. I'm just going to read you guys a list of Spencer's top-viewed Instagram Reels. All doing roof cleaning or gutter cleaning. They're all home service Reels. 24 million, 17 million, 14 million, 11 million, 9 million, 9 million, 6 million, 5 million, 5 million, 5 million, 5 million, 5 million, 5 million, 4 million, 4 million, 4 million, 4 million, 3 million, 3 million, 2 million, 2 million, 2 million, 2 million, 2 million, 2 million, 2 million, 1 million. Ah, 1.8, 1.8, 1.7. Like, you have like 20+ multi-million view Instagram Reels. Let's just start there because so many guys are like, getting no traction on their social medias for any home service business. What is the secret to going viral on social media within your home service business?
Yeah, no, this is a great, a great topic. And I especially like, I mean, we, we mentioned, um, like TikTok is, I love, I love TikTok. I look at it like as, as a sandbox. You can kind of get a really quick, like, if it's going to do well, if a video is going to do well or not. And yeah, the social media environment is changing a lot. But like, I mean, yeah, [ __ ] I don't even know how many posted. Probably like 500, 700. I don't know. 496. I did my homework. 496. There you go. So yeah, yeah, I mean, it's taking hundreds. But I mean, you got to realize, I mean, you got to just do something that's that's kind of unique. And, you know, I'm up cleaning roofs and such. I got, you know, some cool shots before this of a drone like zooming like, "Wash me," washing a roof. Like, who the, who the [ __ ] on on planet Earth has that shot of me like doing this roof cleaning? And so, you know, we can use this for Facebook ads, we can post this on our website, we can post this on YouTube, Facebook, Instagram. Like, one good piece of content, like, bring your tripod, bring your drone, or whatever you need to get some content. And like, dude, that, like, that video will make me so much money. It's, it's insane.
Okay, and like, obviously, it's a lead generator when you post it on ads and everything else for your actual businesses. But then you also have, like, for lack of a better term, like the influencer brand. You've, like, you're also making money just on the Instagram, like the views and everything else. Instagram, if you're doing millions of views, right?
Yeah, I mean, in Instagram had like a bonus program for bit. They don't really anymore. Now they're doing it with Facebook. And so, like, you know, I just posted like 20 Reels on to Facebook last month, and that was an extra like thousand bucks, you know, just from getting views from there. It's just like, cool. And it was literally videos I'd already [ __ ] made. Some that I just like scrolled through my library. I was like, "Oh, that one got a million views." Posted on Facebook. Boom. Gets a million views there. And then boom, it makes me like 200 bucks a day for like a little stint there. So it's a little bit. I mean, you never really know. Like, that's the thing with content. Like, everyone's like, "Oh, what's the secret?" And it's like, I have no [ __ ] real idea. It's just like, I just kind of post what I think is going to do well. And obviously, there's like, you know, I have my own little tricks and like what I like to just get into the the zone for. But like, I mean, it's just, yeah, you like, I've posted 500 Reels and then plus it's like, yeah, probably the same amount on YouTube and such and TikTok. So yeah.
I think it's really, I think it's really telling too that you say you've posted 500 Reels. And I think a lot of people that say, like, "Oh, social media doesn't work for me," or like, "Instagram doesn't work for my business," and "Facebook doesn't work for my business," and they haven't even posted 30.
Yeah, right. They haven't even posted 20. And so it's like, do you agree that creating content for your business, not just to be an influencer, but like for the business too? Because like, you and I do both, right? We create content in our actual businesses for ads, organic posts, everything else, and then for our personal socials as well. It's a muscle. It's a skill, just like anything else. Like, you just get better at it with reps.
Yeah, no, 100%. Just the more. I mean, it's, and, and, and with with content too, I think a lot of people, I mean, I, I get, I get a little more into it too, because I'm also, I also, I'm a writer. Like, I, I have like books and stuff. So I really like the idea of like, you know, and, you know, our mutual friend Vince, too. He said, like, words are like the key to unlocking, like, the universe or or unlocking people's minds. It wasn't that as eloquent as that, but like, you know, words are it's like, it's like I'm speaking to you now, but I can like convey thoughts, I can convey energy to you. And not without, without getting super, like, mumbo jumbo, it's like, how can I convey this energy across the screen to millions of people? And it's, it's a really cool, like, thought process when you can get people to stop and and watch your video and, you know, pay attention to you. Because, you know, you and me both know, if you can get people's attention, you can make some money, or hopefully make some money. So yeah.
Yeah, okay. So let's just, like, reverse engineer a good piece of content in the home service world. So let's take one that's pertinent for you, like gutter cleaning, roof cleaning, whatever else. So what you're saying is, like, you get one good shot. It's not just like, you get one good pano of like a satisfying gutter clean, one good pano of a roof clean where it's like a before and after, whatever else. Video, photos, anything you can imagine. You're not just using that shot in one single post. You're going to reuse that footage all over the place, right?
Oh, yeah. Like, if it's a good video, like, you can post it on, you know, all five or six relevant platforms right now. And then you can repost it again. Like, like I mentioned, like on Facebook, I just reposted it. Boom. Another million views. Just like a year later. It's like, took zero effort. I already put the put the work in. So. And yeah, you get, you kind of get to a point too, like people like, I, I kind of know, like, "Okay, this is a good shot." And then I'll try and get like three or four different shots when I'm up on a roof or doing doing a job. And then usually most of them don't really work. They just don't hit. They just don't have the right angle for whatever [ __ ] reason. No one really knows. Like, so you could post the same video like five times. And then the sixth time you like had the right, like, zoom in, and it it [ __ ] takes off. So you don't really know. But you know, it's worth testing it out, trying a bunch of different [ __ ]. You know?
So you, like, step one is like, get a satisfying before and after video, right? That's typically step one. Step two is like, do some form of creative on top of it, whether it's music, uh, text on the screen to hold their attention for a little bit longer. But then you can also, like, if you've gotten a really s, I've seen you do this before. You've gotten a really satisfying video on like a roof clean where the moss goes from like green to white over time with a pano. But then I've seen you take that same video and do like music behind it and make a Reel about that. And then do the same video with like a voiceover. And it's two completely different styles of content. One hits, one doesn't.
Yeah, yeah. You got to try different, like, different things. And, and especially specifically, like, with ads and stuff too. Because, you know, running Facebook ads, we're not, we don't have to do too much. We're spending like 40 bucks, 50 bucks a day right now. And, you know, just with these videos, you got to remember that your your customers are going to be seeing these, you know, 5, 10, 15, 20 times before they're they're even buying. So they might need different, like, angles, different emotional angles, different, like, words. And it's kind of like, you know, the the age-old example is chopping down a tree. You don't know necessarily hit is going to like fell the tree over. So you got to just be posting different ways, different, you know, all that sort of different things. So yeah.
One of the things that we talk about in like Home Service Accelerator when they're when we're setting them up to run Facebook ads for the first time is like, I plaster this everywhere when I'm talking to them is like, there's two types of people in the home service world: people who test 5 to 10 creatives when they run Facebook ads, and people who say, "Facebook ads don't work for home service businesses."
Yeah. There's only those two.
That's good because it's true. Like, every single person I've talked to that says Facebook ads don't work, if I look at their account, they were running absolute dog [ __ ] creatives. Like, still image. They put it together on Canva in two seconds. The image is blurry. And they're like, "Why aren't people reaching out to me?" And then you'll see like some plumber who's 60 years old, ripped like five video creatives, 10 video creatives, one of them got traction, and he's just ripping. And so, yeah.
Let's change gears to Facebook ads because you're extremely good at that. Where are you on the side of lead form versus messaging conversations?
Dude, I'm just so, like, I still love messages. It's just so pure. Like, they just, like, you can talk to them. Cuz that's that's really all marketing is at the end of the day. Just, it's, it's a conversation between people. If you can get a conversation between someone. And yeah, like, it's good to get their email and their phone number. But in my opinion, that's what I love about Facebook right now is like, like I said, Facebook might show them this ad 15 [ __ ] times. We're running ads like pretty much 365, like every, every single day of the year. We've had people that will message us and then a year, two years later, they see our ad again and then they message us. Then they message us back. So it's kind of like we're just, Facebook is constantly reminding them. So it kind of, it takes away the need for a lot of the like, you know, email campaigns and such. And text. I mean, you know, some people might disagree, but like, I found it to be, you know, Facebook is, is really good. They've, they've spent a lot of money to get their algorithm like on point, you know?
So one of the things that I've seen guys struggle with with messaging convos is like, there's so little friction that the quality of messaging conversation can frustrate people. So like, they'll get, you know, 10 results and they'll maybe have a conversation with like three or four. Is that typically your experience? Is that industry norm for the most part? Is it you get ghosted a lot on messenger?
Yeah, Facebook leads are definitely like lower quality. And I kind of look at it it as like a short burn. Like, we want to get like, get some quick wins, get going. And then obviously, the Google is like the long-term play. But, you know, you got to get some, get some quick wins. And Facebook will still get you that as well. And, you know, you'll get the, the quality of leads might be a little bit less. But I mean, shoot, it doesn't take that much. Like, you know, we've done jobs for, we'll get a job for $1,800 bucks. And then that pays for the lead. Like, if we're spending, you know, however much per day. I just check, we've spent like $700 bucks this month. Like, boom, that paid for this month and like next month's ads. Like, just that one single job. So, you know, there's definitely still, definitely still like gold in the mine. Just got to keep digging a little bit. Don't get frustrated.
Yeah. So let's talk about numbers for a little bit. So you're spending $40 a day typically on ads?
Yeah, something like that.
Okay, so you're spending $1,200 a month. What's like a typical for gutter cleaning, roof cleaning, something like that? What's your average ticket?
I mean, ours is like, isn't super high for like roof and gutters, but we'll do like four to 500 is like an average.
Okay. So if you're spending $1,200 a month in ads, what's a typical ROAS? Like, how many of these jobs are you landing from Facebook exclus or Facebook Instagram ads, right? Like running both, like messenger style ads, whatever else. What are you getting in terms of return on ad spend on that?
Yeah, I mean, it's, it's getting increasingly harder to like, to do. Get my numbers right because I mean, I, I had one lady too. She came from Facebook, but then she was doing research on like how to clean a, how to get your roof cleaned with what chemicals. And she's like, "Oh, and I saw your videos on YouTube." And like, so I was like, "I wanted to go with you." So it's like, and then you, we have, we have yard signs, we have all this stuff. But like, I mean, Facebook, I'll tell you, you know, we're getting leads right now between 5 to like $8. So, you know, we're getting quite a few leads per day. Like a few leads per day. And then, you know, assume a couple of them are spam. We're getting a couple good leads per day. You know, if we can do one or two jobs, like close one of one or two of those per day, I I'd say it's a good day. You know, making 500 bucks back. Because then you got to, because, you know, we have Google, we're ranking number one. I put a lot of work in the website. So Facebook is a great way to kind of supplement. And ideally, too, we can like, ideally be able to turn off the ads. But what I've kind of done is I've just added more guys that I just, you know, subcontract out the job. So I have have kind of needed to still do ads. But I mean, maybe we'll see. I mean, ideally, yeah, in a perfect world, you just have to Google or you're just some some guy with a massive. Like, I've talked to a gutter company's like, "Oh yeah, we don't advertise. We haven't advertised in 20 years. Our list is just, you know, we're doing this." So yeah, yeah, that's the goal. But for us young guys that have less than five, six years under our belts, like, you got to play the game a little bit.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, okay, that's really interesting. So when you're like, when you're ripping, you know, $500, $600 a day, I think what a lot of people, especially when they get, like, younger in the business, they like start doing the math on like cranking ads, Ben. Right? So they start by spending $20 a day and they're like, "Oh my gosh, that's $600 a month." And then you're like, "Yeah, but it's making you $3,000, $4,000 a month. Keep going. Keep scaling it." And I think what's interesting is when you talk about Meta specifically, one of the things that we saw in my Christmas light business that was insane was what you were just hitting on is Meta is the only paid advertising platform that lets you generate leads and build your brand at the same time. And so no other ads, Angie, Thumbtack, Google, pay-per-click, Google LSA can do that. And so what I mean by that is like, when they see your video on the ad, the like the lady that said like, "Oh, I saw your ad and then I went on YouTube and I saw you on YouTube and then I went on your website and I Googled you and everything else." That's the unsung part about Meta that people don't understand is just because the leads aren't always attributed to Meta doesn't mean they didn't see your ad on Facebook, Instagram, and then do their homework like any sane person would do buying something. Which is like, we had a $30,000 residential job this year that was coded in our system for Christmas, for Christmas lights, that was coded in our system as it came organically through our website. When when my sales guy got on site, the lady goes, "Oh yeah, I love your guys' Instagram. I saw your guys' ads." And then I just called you. And my sales guy's like, "Oh, I thought you came from our website." She's like, "Oh, I just Googled you." So but the first touch was an ad. And so that's like, for anybody listening, that's what Spencer is saying. It's harder to attribute everything to Meta because sometimes they don't even click your profile. They just like literally scroll out of Facebook or Instagram and Google you.
Yeah. And then keep going. So you got to like, have your [ __ ] together across every platform for that exact reason.
Yeah, no, Facebook's really, I mean, it's, it's an interruption platform. People aren't going on there to seek. They're going on to to talk to their friends and look at cat videos. And so if you can, like, I mean, marketing, there's all about, you know, the the buyer awareness. Like, the people at the bottom, like, don't even, like, some people might not even have a roof or not even have a house. So they're not even like on your target market. But then if someone's like, not really aware, like, one of my, one of my new ads is like, "Have you ever noticed the pesky moss like on your roof?" And it's like, so someone's like, not really like thinking about moss. But then they see that ad, they're like, "Oh, shoot, I do have moss on my roof." And then it's just like, getting them thinking about it. And then that raises them up, you know, the pyramid of like, of awareness, essentially. You know?
No, it makes a lot of sense. So give me, before we go on to, because I do want to talk about SEO for a while because I think you're way better at that than I am. Um, I just fired the SEO agency that I use for like three and a half years. I fired him last year. And like, obviously nothing changed because once you're ranking high, they're not doing anything and they're just cashing a check for, you know, a thousand a month to do nothing. Yeah. Uh, so like, let's just talk about like, tier list of paid advertising. So let's just say we have like, Facebook ads, Google LSAs, Thumbtack, Angie, Nextdoor ads. Does Facebook clear everything in your opinion, specifically in your trade?
I mean, I, I absolutely. Everyone absolutely needs be putting a lot of time and energy into their Google Business page and their website. I would even, I would scratch Thumbtack. I wouldn't even, I wouldn't even [ __ ] around with that [ __ ] because like you mentioned, you're not really building your brand. Like SEO. And yeah, even even Google ads too. Like, like that's an interesting point because I was talking to someone on one of our calls in our group. They had said that they, there was a, a person in Florida, I can't remember what business it was, but they grew to like their first year, like a million dollars revenue from then. They said the secret was just ads with their face in it on Facebook ads. Like, and you, you're really good at this too. Like, you'll put your face, be like, "Hey, like, how's it going, Scott?" Still. And it's like, people like, "Whoa, like, I can see this person." It's not like, just because on Google, it's like, just text. "Oh, cheap holiday lights." You know, no one wants there's no brand there. There's no like, you're not building anything. So that's why I love like, website. You're, you're planting a seed that can grow. Like, a page on your website can like, get leads for months, if not like years. It'll get leads for years. And, you know, Facebook really helps Kindle that fire. And just like, you know, then, you know, it's, it's all like this little ecosystem that's, it's a lot of fun to work on.
Okay, so of those five, don't even touch Angie, don't touch Thumbtack, don't touch anything. I agree with you. I know you love Angie's List as much as...
No, I do not. I'm gonna, I'm gonna go after. I'm gonna put your number into like their their call. Do call.
Yes, please call me like five times a day.
What are the? Yeah, that's what I do to my enemies. I sign them up for insurance brokerages and put their numbers everywhere. So yeah.
So lead gen, like, if you're, the way I always describe it is like, if you're paying per lead to a website, so Angie, Thumbtack, even in a lot of cases, LSAs. Like, LSAs are a little bit better. But still, if you're paying per lead, meaning someone else is doing the heavy lifting to generate your lead, you're on the wrong side of the table.
Yeah. You should. I mean, and this is the thing that I, I mean, cuz I know some good agents and such. Like SEO and Facebook ads and stuff. Cool. But in my opinion, I, I never want to like, like leads, lead generation is the lifeblood of your business. If you can't be good at this yourself, like you're essentially outsourcing your entire business. You're putting it on someone else's shoulders. Because you got to remember, like, every agency, they really have so much other [ __ ] going on. Their their main goals are honestly just signing more clients. You're, you're like, you and your your website are like second or third on their list of like, to-do. And so you got to remember that no one is going to care as much about your business as you. So you got to be building the brand. You got to be comfortable building it. Or or at the very least, hire someone who is, you know, like a good social media manager or someone who's going to do good SEO on your website. So, you know, like we have a good team over, you know, overseas and they they do great work. And so I don't have to spend hours a day on my website or our client's websites. But, you know, got to, someone's got to do it.
Yeah. Okay. And I do want to preface that like, when I say agencies suck, I mean 99.9% of agencies suck. Suck. There's the occasional .1% like I think Ashley at One L Social is actually good. Like, I think she's one of the rare few good ones that understands it. But for every one of them, there's probably a hundred who are terrible. And I've hired probably 10 of them over the course of my life cycle in two years, ranging from like, I've paid in, I've paid $600 a month all the way up to $2,500 a month in agency fees. And the result was the same across the board until I just learned how to do it myself. And then it becomes a lot easier, right? Because now you don't have an agency fee taking more than half of your budget. And you know, to just press play. And that's what I think a lot of people are missing is like, if you're going to go the agency route and you want to spend less than $100 a day, make that ratio of agency fee to ad spend makes sense to me. Make it make sense. Like the agency retainer is a thousand a month and you want to spend $40 a day, that's $1,200 a month in ads and $1,000 a month going to management. So that's like 40 something percent of your budget going to management. My husky could run a Facebook ad campaign with all of that spend combined and outperform an agency.
Yeah, yeah. It's, and that's that's kind of my beef. And that's why I never really got deep into the agency work is because I'm like, looking around, I'm like, "This isn't that [ __ ] hard." Like, like putting up ads and such is not, it's not hard. You like, it's really just people are scared of like, you know, putting themselves out there and being wrong and such. Because, you know, like you said, there's really, there's two types of people. People are willing to test and fail many times to get their ads. Or there's people like, "Nope, it doesn't work." You know? It's like, I mean, I remember like when my dad told me to go get a tool in like, in the garage, and I couldn't find it. And it's like, "No, it's not there." And it's just like, it, like, it's like being a child. You're like, literally being a child. You're like, "That's what that is." And so you got to realize, man, like, no, like, ah, I, I could go on about that. But yeah.
Yeah, imagine being so arrogant that you see like thousands of people doing Facebook ads and making them profitable in the exact niche you're you're in and then being like, "Oh, no, no, they don't work in my market." As if your market is somehow different than the rest of the United States. Like, I have guys in West Virginia, in cities with 40,000 people, ripping Facebook ads because there's just less competition there than you and I compete with in Seattle and Phoenix. And then you got guys in LA crushing for different reasons because, yeah, there's a lot of competition, but there's also an ungodly amount of demand. So it's like, it doesn't matter where you are. If you're in a population, a town of like less than 10,000 in a 40 square mile radius, then maybe, then maybe you're in a different world. But like, for the most part, the arrogance of people to be like, "Oh, I tried one creative. I tried an agency once. Facebook ads don't work to me," is insane. And I have no dog in the fight anymore.
Yeah, it's, I mean, people just, you know, that's what business is all about is like doing what other people aren't willing to do. Like, if, if your town is good with Facebook ads, or if it's small and you guys aren't working, then you got to do something, man. Like, you're, you're big on yard signs, you know, website. Like, you got to figure something out, dude. And, you know, even, even God forbid, door to door. Like, go knock some doors. Like, people like, "Oh, like, it's not working." Like, "Bro, go put lace up your boots, get to work, dude. What are you willing to do to make make some money, dude?" I don't know. I don't know what to tell you.
I refuse. I refuse to. I know. I know people do it. I know I know it works. I just think like, if your goal is to get to 10, 20, 30k a month, if you get there doing door to or the second you get to 20, 30k a month, your main lead gen source is gone unless you figure out really how to outsource it. But then you have a new expense as opposed to the expense that you could just learn running Facebook ads and doing good SEO.
Yeah, that's always going to be my argument with door knocking is like, it works up until, like, let's take window cleaning for example. It works up until 10, 20k. It's like, how many door knockers are you managing? And now you're managing a door knocking crew and a fulfillment crew doing the jobs because you want to scale that up too. Now you're getting vehicles, now you're getting everything else. Like ads and SEO are the lever you can pull where your time you buy back your time in the business harder than anything else.
Yeah. But again, people, people rip with door to door. So I get it. But I just, it's never been for me.
Yeah, it's, I mean, because you just, I mean, if you go back to like, if you kind of zoom out to like, to even you and me, like, you know, coaches or people telling you what to do. And I made a video about this like on my YouTube because I've been kind of just doing more like Vlogs where I just kind of lay back and just while I'm driving or something, just talk about some topic. And, you know, everyone wants to copy what everyone else is doing. But it's like, maybe that's not the right thing for your business. You got to figure out what, what, what you actually want to [ __ ] do. And just because someone else is telling you, "Oh, door to door is the only way to grow your business." "Oh, Facebook ads are the only way to grow your business." It's like, you don't got to listen to them. Just do, like, like you mentioned, you're not going to touch door to door. And that's that's totally fine. As long as you figure out what, what the heck you want to do to grow your business. And that's sustainable for you. Because that's another thing people forget is like, "Oh yeah, I could do this for a month, a year, maybe even two years." But like, trust me, almost everything's going to get old within a within a couple years. And you're not, you're not going to want to be answering the phone all the time. You're not going to want to be knocking doors. Transport, five years from now. It's like, when, if you just started from the beginning, growing your website, getting good at ads, like, I don't want to be knocking doors in five years from now. Like, that would suck.
So Spencer, are you telling me that the guys I see on social media driving Ferraris and Lambos that are selling door-to-door selling courses are not getting Ferrari and Lambo money knocking door to themselves?
Uh, I mean, you didn't hear from me, but I would hate to, I would hate for that to be the reality where like selling $149 window clean isn't going to make buy you a Lamborghini. But, you know, what do I know? I don't know.
Interesting, interesting. That I, I was about to buy every door knocking course where the guy's wearing a Rolex and driving a Lambo that I see because that sure makes a lot of sense. Uh, anyway, uh, okay, let's talk about the SEO because you've brought up SEO like four different times. And I've been wanting to talk about Facebook ads. And every time we talk about Facebook ads, you move to SEO, which I think is a natural progression here. Okay, so we can talk about Facebook ads as long as you want too.
No, no, no, no, no. I love it. I love it. I think we beat the dead horse on Facebook ads. We both love it. So change gears to SEO. That seems to be like, even talking to you as a friend over the years, you're way more invested into the GMB and SEO now than even you were in the past. So what is it about that now? I'm not saying you weren't fond in the past, but like, what is it now that has you so hyped on SEO that has you like, what are you doing now where you're seeing the results from SEO that has you more hyped on anything else?
I mean, it's just the idea that you can, I, I also, you know, I grew up, my my dad had a garden and such. And I always, I still this day, and that's kind of like we were talking before this, you know, we got some land, we're going to move out. I just, I want to have a garden, man. And and SEO is the idea of you can plant a seed. You can plant a tree that's going to grow for, we don't even know, as long as the internet's around. Like, you can plant, if you build a good website, you put a good page on there, it will last for months, years, decades. Like, it's going to be around forever, pretty much. And so I love that idea of like, "Oh, if I just work on my website, it's going to always continuously grow." And so not a single other thing that we've mentioned, like any other ad, nothing else comes close to that. If I put an hour into this, that hour is going to carry over for years. It's like, it's almost infinite leverage if you think about it.
Okay, so talk to me like I'm a kindergartener in terms of SEO. Right? I started Steve's Window Cleaning Company, Phoenix, Arizona, tomorrow. We've got a, we've got a GMB. It's StevesSqueakyWindows.com. And we're just getting off the ground with SEO. What am I doing? I'm getting Google reviews with photos, optimizing the GMB. Give me like, kindergarten level. What am I doing?
Yeah, so I mean, so Google My Business and and website are a little bit, they're a little bit different. They're a little separated. Google My Business, like anyone can have a a GMB profile. And or Google Business Profile, like whatever they call it. So and that the main thing there is like, is reviews. And, you know, obviously, if you can get as many reviews as humanly possible, that's Google and based on the like, the location of the person searching it, you, the pretty much the person with the most reviews is going to is going to pop up. And then so from there, obviously, when you, when you open Google and you, you type in any search, you know, window cleaning, like you mentioned, window cleaning Phoenix or Scott Still, you're going to scroll. The first ones are going to be sponsored. So, you know, LSA or whatever, all those posts. The and then from there, it's Google Business Profile. So super important. People are going to look on the map pack. And then from there, it goes like website, you know, like the number one, number two, number three. And so, and, and from there on. So Google Business Profile, and then website are like, those are how, how it's kind of separate. So I mean, if anyone's just getting started, absolutely max out the Google Business Profile. It's the quickest, like, the quickest wins. You can just literally just make a profile. And right now, there is a couple, it is a bit harder to get verified. I've heard a lot of people having issues with like, you know, sending in the video. And so I, I've kind of just, hey, go find someone overseas on Fiverr, pay them 100 bucks, get get it verified. I've seen that work a couple times.
But I saw my that got my junk account permanently banned with 170 reviews.
Yeah, just by outsourcing it to someone else. Yeah. I paid some dude named Ang on Fiverr and I got sent him by someone my program who said it worked for him. He got into our junk page because it, because I started making content about my businesses on Instagram. People don't like that apparently. And so someone went and, like, s, like, got Valley Christmas and my junk removal business suspended by like saying the pin was in the wrong location at both businesses.
Google. Oh, yeah. And so you tried to get it back by hiring someone.
Yeah, so I got to reverifying income. That one got reverified. The junk one was like, "You've been suspended for fraudulent behavior." And the guy got into it and like, when the overseas guy got into it, he completely, my account is perma-banned. It was like 175 star reviews, like 40 photo reviews. I'm trying to sell the junk removal company right now. And everyone I talk to are like, "Dude, like, what are we buying? An email list? Like, a little bit of recurring revenue?" Like, the GMB was like, the lifeblood of that business and the SEO. And so like, because the GMB got moved, it actually started hurting our website SEO too. Like our Maps SEO hurt our website SEO.
That's crazy. You guys got perma-banned? That's, we haven't, with that many reviews too, that's insane. I haven't really seen that very much. I'm usually I'm usually talking about guys just getting brand new started. So there's really little risk to like doing that. But dude, Phoenix is also like, third. Like, we're an hour and a half from the Mex border. And like, junk removal is like, everybody with a pickup truck puts some plywood on the side of it and becomes a junk removal company. So like, dude, there's, we checked one time and this is why we pivoted to like permanent lights and everything else more because the businesses started taking from each other a little bit. Because like a jack, a jack of all trades, a master of none. I started to become like worse at both as they scaled. And so we, once that happened, we just made the decision like, dude, we're just selling off junk and going all in on permanent lighting and Christmas lights because it's just way bigger. But like, dude, there was like 150 plus GMB pages for junk removal companies within a 30 square mile radius of my address.
Yeah, yeah. Google Business. And that's the thing. Then you're competing with just like anybody. And and reviews. And so that's where like having a good website. And then all, and it's, and if you're, you know, like you mentioned, you're close to close to the border, you know, that's where you might want to get good with ads or yard signs, whatever. I mean, we have like, I mean, you know, Dylan up here, he was, he's been doing a lot more junk. He said yard signs are just just plain ripping for him. So it's kind of interesting like the different things that people. I mean, who knows? But yard signs and Meta were in the last year were our best advertising sources. I built the entire junk removal business off of Google pay-per-click exclusively and Thumbtack in 2021 and 2022. Both of them became obsolete in 2023. Like, you couldn't buy a pay-per-click customer for less than $150. And your average ticket on junk was like 250 to 300. It made no sense.
Yeah, it's crazy. Okay, love to talk off camera or like, I don't know if you're like selling a business that's a, I'm curious about that as well. Just talked to another guy who's looking to sell. And, you know, that's always kind of a curious topic.
I mean, it's a, it's a no. I'm happy to talk about it. So it's a crapshoot for us because remember, our numbers are going to always be skewed because for the like, junk was always the business that kept me and that my leadership positions for Christmas employed year-round. And so the first year I started junk, the ones on my YouTube channel, it's me doing the work. I still don't know what the hell I'm doing. I'm doing jobs and a pair of athletic shorts and like a t-shirt, not even knowing a shred about what running a business should look like.
Sexy Hunks Moving Junk, you know?
Yeah, exactly. Except I was fat as hell at that point. Less fat than I am now. Still fat, but less. And so that's what I was doing in like 2021. And then I started hiring people. We scaled up to like, it was like 150, 200,000 or something like that in the year. But what would happen is Christmas was exploding every year, making more in a week than junk would make in three months. And so every year for three straight years, I said, "We're going to run them separately during Christmas season. We're going to have a junk crew that's all they're going to do. And then we're going to have a Christmas crew." And every year, Christmas got so busy by October 31st, I was like, by October 31st, every year, I was like, "Screw that. I need everybody come to Christmas." Because I needed like two, three crews at a time. And so what would happen is I would sub out junk for Q4 every year. I would sub out every junk job. I would take, you know, 30%, 25%. And then some I would have, I would sub it out to one of my friends who had a junk removal company here. And so what would happen is like, our books look weird, right? So when we go to sell it, our books look very strange when 25% of the year, we're basically subbing everything out. And so if you think about like, what someone buying a business wants is they want consistency. They want a really strong SEO and GMB presence, which now with a suspended GMB or an expelled GMB, it doesn't exist. And then they, a lot of the buyers are going to want turnkey. And I took all of the leadership positions to Christmas year-round. And so it's become very difficult for me to sell that business because they're essentially like, "What are we buying? Like an email list?" Because I'm like, "I can tell you like, yeah, you'll probably get like, with email alone, like retargeting, we were grabbing like a few thousand dollars a month off of just email. But 25% of our sales were coming from the GMB. Our website was generating another so and so. But now the website's tanked because our GMB got tanked and our SEO screwed. And so it's like, very difficult for me to sell it. I'm not going to get a multiple anywhere near what I would want for that business at all because it's not very appealing to a buyer. You're going to try and just cash out for like 50k or if that, I don't even know how much you'd be able to make.
Dude, I don't even think I'll get that. Yeah, without a without a GMB [ __ ]. But I've never pretended that that was like some crazy operation or anything. And so that's why I'm like, it is what it is. Christmas has always been the whale for us. Like that business has 30 employees when it's running. Like that business has always been the whale. Junk was always, like, we grew it to a substantial number on the side, but it was never the main thing. And like, I tell you with my actions, it wasn't the main thing by subbing it out for a quarter of every year.
Yeah. And so I think that, I think that a lot of people haven't, and I think that you probably have even seen it where you said yourself, like, "I've started to sub out even some of your own jobs because it's like you have a, you have a fork in the road." At about, what were you doing, like 20, 25k a month when you were like, "Okay, time to sub it out?"
Yeah, even even before that. I was just like, [ __ ] like, I don't. And now like, I don't like to. I mean, I, and that's the thing. I love. I actually do like to work outside. Like, I'm just like, if I don't do a job, like, at least once a week, I start to go a little stir crazy. Working on the laptop is is nice and all, but it's like, doesn't hit the same. So I still like to do a job. You know, like before this call, you know, made 800 bucks doing a job. So I don't know. Just out there, the birds chirping, making content, you know, it's not too bad. But that's, yeah, that's where you and I are are different. Like, I know you you don't like to get like dirt under your fingernails. You're just like, you go this like, all that soft hands.
You know, I do have soft hands, brother.
No, but like, that was my, that was always my goal was like, work to the work on the business to like, get out of the truck. That was always my goal. I was a tech sales bro before it like, it was.
You know, whatever else, I, I'm a nerd about the computer side of it. That's always been my stick. But like, there's, again, this is why it's wonderful to have you and I talk. Like, there's no right way to do it. My way is not the right way to do it. Your way is not the right way to do it. Everybody likes different things. Like, you could, at this point, have built an absolute wagon where you don't even ever step foot on a job, ever, if you wanted to.
Yeah, I don't have to. Definitely. I could just literally, I have enough guys now, I could send out any single job. But I mean, the one, the one today is literally like a mile. We got it from Google. I'm just like, shoot, it's like super close, easy money. Get some good content because, you know, we got, you know, the roof product. It's, you know, it's kind of fun to like post about that. So all that sort of stuff.
Yeah, you like, you like holding on to that cash as well. Like, I, I do miss that feeling. Yeah, the cash, bro. It's like, we both know the feeling of making like, you know, 5K in a day with online or invoice or whatever. But like, that $500 of like, cold Benjamin just like hits different, you know?
No, especially like after working with your hands all day on it. Yeah, it's just like, and that's something that I've just kind of learned. I'm like, okay, I never want to. Because yeah, I've wanted to, we've all thought about. Because yeah, pressure washing or all that, it's, it's, it's a lot of work, man. It's like, it's, you've essentially built yourself a job unless you can sub out the jobs or hire employees. I mean, doing it yourself, man, I don't know anyone who's going to do that longer than five, 10 years. Maybe there are a few people who've done it 20 years, but like, I don't know, that's, that's, that's a hard life, dude.
Yeah, I've seen. Yeah, I mean, I've seen a lot of dudes that like go into their 50s, 60s like, no, dude, I just want to be an owner-op. And it's like, dude, if that's what you want to do, that's fine. Yeah. And yeah, exactly. Like, you know, it is whatever the [ __ ] you want to do. And so that's kind of been my message recently. Don't listen to me. Don't listen to Steve. Don't listen to anybody who's trying to tell you this is the only way to do this. It's like, no, there's, there's a, as whatever you want to do. Like, it's, it's completely up to you. And that's what I do love about the business. It's a great way to get, you know, home services. Like, in my opinion, still the best way to get started, to get off the ground, get to 10K per month, 20K. Like, super, like, it's literally just getting more leads. And like, you can just do things. You can just post yard signs, you can knock doors, post Facebook ads, you know, build a website. Like, it's not that hard. So it's literally the closest thing to a real-life RPG video game that you could have. Like, it's just, it's literally RuneScape in real life. Like, that's all it is. It's, it's RollerCoaster Tycoon in real life.
But no, that's always something that even before I had like any, I was before I was making content or anything, three, four years ago, I always, like when you and I were just becoming friends, I always admired that about the content. Is do you refuse to sell the dream in terms of like the unrealistic outcome of doing this? Because like, it's no secret that you sell something online. It's no secret that I sell something online. But when I started doing this, like, one of the people I really paid attention to was like the way you crafted your messaging. Because it's like, you're never rocking a Rolex on on your wrist when you probably could afford one. You're never flashing a rented supercar, knowing that that might convince some people to buy whatever you're selling online. And I think that that's super important for people to realize that like, no matter who you're watching and listening to, if they're flashing anything material and they're selling an info product online, they're not getting the flashy material from whatever service they're selling you that they're going to teach you how to do.
Yeah, it's, and I, I've bit that bullet a couple times. You know, I saw the guy with the Lamborghini. You know, here, bro, here's 12 grand. Like, let's, let's go. And then it's just like, it's like, wow, I just got basically fleeced. But I mean, obviously, there's some great programs out there, great co. I've had a couple. It's been about 550. You know, kind of like you mentioned with SEO, it's like, there's a hundred agencies. You know, most of them are probably bad. But and you've gone through 10 of the bad ones. But you know, yeah, it's, you know, that's at the end of the day, like your integrity is priceless. Like, there's no amount of money that's going to like, you know, I never want to like, yeah, preach just something that's just like silly or unrealistic. And and I've kind of been on like a personal crusade against that recently. Like materialism. And there's, you can definitely see there's a movement behind it. Like, like right now, I'm like, should I just build a tiny house on our on our land and move to another country and just like chill for a bit? Or do I just stay on the land like, you know, freaking Davey Crockett style, chopping wood? Like that just sounds fun to me. Like, I don't know. I literally, you could give me a Rolex or give me the cash for a Rolex. Like, and I, I do not like watches. I do not like any of that [ __ ]. I don't like cars. Like, I don't know, it just doesn't speak to me at all. Like, what speaks to me is being outside and just like being in nature. And and there's so many men out there that that that feel the same way. And like, like they don't want to move to Miami and get a Rolex and drive a Lamborghini. That's just a small subset. And like, I don't know, I just, yeah.
And like, I, I think that's not necessarily a bad thing. But I noticed the trend on any sort of content on the internet right now that is the pretty typical archetype, right? It's the sub-30, it's like the 35 and under crowd where it's yachts. It's just materialism at its fullest form. It's like, these are my goals in life. And it's gotten to the point now where it's like, no women, which is so strange to me. Like, these guys that are like, it's like the Andrew Tate types where it's like, now that it's apparently like bad to have a meaningful relationship as well. Like, that's apparently like so, that's apparently not okay if you want to be successful. So it's like, all the content is like, I'm going to be in Miami, Dubai. I'm going to be Rolex, cars, everything else. And it's like, that is for every piece of like genuine content that very rarely goes viral because it's real, there's a thousand pieces of like drop shipping or even like, even in our space, like, oh, I bought Lambos from my, you know, home service business course, I'm selling you for 15 grand. Like, stuff like that. It's just like, when materialism is the main advertising point, do not buy the product.
Yeah, absolutely not. Like, period. If it's, if the materialism is number one on most of their content, this is how I got my gym launch business to so and so. Not gym launch horos. Like, this is how I got my gym training business to so and so. And now I live in Miami in a penthouse. It's like, no, they bought, they got that Miami penthouse selling you on the dream of selling their fitness program. So anyway, that's, yeah, neither here nor there. But change gears. I do want to know permanent lighting. You've been, you've taken the black pill now? Yeah.
No, we've done, we've done a couple jobs. I mean, it's, it's cool. It's like, wow, those two jobs was put together was $10,000. It's like, we did those. Took each one of them took a day. So it's like, on paper, it's awesome. And and it still is. It's right now, we're still just like, you know, we have such like a roof and gutter brand. It's it's like, we're trying to get more of the the permanent jobs. And I just bought a bunch of yard signs too. So I'm putting those out strategically. I'm like, we we drove around like last week at night too, like found a couple permanent light places and then just put signs all around like the neighborhood. And so yeah, we'll see what happens.
And know, did you have much success this Christmas season selling them? I mean, we, we did a crap ton of govie. Like, our govie. Like, I, I obviously don't like govie. It's like, kind of the cheapest crap product. But people wanted it. And like, you know, the, you know, the demographic out here in Seattle, Washington, you know, a lot of tech bros, a lot of Indians that want the lights. And that's cool. Like, that's totally fine. So we did a [ __ ] ton of govies. And I mean, that kind of ate into our Christmas light business too. But you know, what, whatever the people want, I, I'm not going to stop that. I'm not going to say no to my guys for a $700 job that's going to take a few hours with [ __ ] ladder and a state rer. It's like, it's pretty funny. Like, it's not that hard to put up govies. But okay.
So were you pushing back on permanent for quite a few years? Like I was. Yeah, I mean, I don't like the idea of something where I go to like, I have to come back in a few years from now. I just don't like that. And I've talked to a lot of guys too. They're like, oh, I don't like the idea of not being able to like clean their gutters or their roof every year. But I, I don't feel that way. I, I feel like there's so many, I mean, there's 3.4 million people in our in my metro area. It's like, we're not going to run out of [ __ ] houses to like, put permanent lights up. Like, that's a, that's a lot of work cut out for for one person. So yeah, especially when you're installing govies because they're going to break in year two anyway. Put new ones up. And that's a cool thing with multiple services. Like, we can, we do their permanent job, and then we do their [ __ ] gutters. And we do their roof. Like, it's like, boom, boom, boom. Like, almost like 90% of the of our Christmas light customers also get a roof and gutter clean. It's just like, boom. So yeah, we, yeah, we're a little different in Arizona, just being the fact that like, I'm not putting govie out in 115 degree sun for six months a year. Like, that is the farthest thing from permanent. Like, that is not permanent in Arizona sun. And it's so funny because I flew out to Dallas like three years ago, but after my second year, yeah, so three years ago now, after my second year of temporary lighting when permanent was really taking course. And I went to a company's training and did the whole thing. And I was so unimpressed that I didn't implement it. Like, I was like, this is the worst. Like, this is going to blow up in everyone's faces. Thank God. Like, I was right. A lot of those permanent products got recalled in 2022, 2023, 2024 to where like, dude, these guys were promising lifetime guarantees on these $9, $10,000 permanent light installs. And the lights were breaking, whether it was a tech issue or like the physical light was not lasting for more than two years. And these customers are like, oh, what's cool, you you sold me a lifetime one, so can you just come replace them? And these guys, like, uh, my cost on these was $3,500. I cannot come replace these for free. And then like, everybody just like got cannibalized. So it's actually really funny. There's almost like this resurgence of permanent now. But all the big players are getting into it now again, because the product seemingly is better. Like, even us, like we do $800,000 a year in temporary. And we're like, okay, we know the products now. Like, the Minleon product's good. A few of the other products are good. They've had staying power in Arizona sun. We're like, okay, like, we know good enough now that these are that these are going to stay. But you have to sell it differently to people because I don't think that they're truly permanent the way people say. Like, no one's had these permanent lights on a house for 15 years. Yeah, go, go call Granny, she's had hers up for 30 years on the house, you know, goddamn. Yeah. So like, I mean, like, dude, yeah, yeah, like when these, like, for example, when these Arizona houses are painted with UV resistant paint and the paint starts fading and chipping, do you really think your plastic, your plastic dipped epoxy diode and your permanent lights are somehow immune to 15 years under the Arizona sun? Yeah, no. We'll see. Yeah, we'll see. I mean, the tracks are getting better. Jobs that you've done. So yeah, we'll see.
No, now I think the product's a little bit better. But back then, clearly. But we sell it differently now. We sell service agreements. I mean, I tell them too, I'm like, okay, this has like, I can't, I, I remembered it last a month or two ago. But it's like, it's if you run it 12 hours a day or whatever, it's like 12 years or it's like 50,000 hours or something. I, I can't remember. But you know, telling them that, tell them, hey, we have a year, year-long warranty. If anything goes wrong, we'll, we'll, we'll fix it. No problem. After that, you know, we'll have like your service fee. All that sort of stuff. But you know, just tell them it was like an hourly. I, I can't remember. I think it's like 50,000 hours or something. Yeah. But it's like, these guys buying the permanent, permanent product, like the Minleon, the Gemstone, the everything else, they're buying it for $10 a foot and installing it for 19. Like, you have one thing go wrong in year two, and you lost your ass on that entire job tenfold.
Yeah, yeah. That is that is kind of something that's that's interesting. Like I said, we've only done a couple. We're going to, we're going to do a few more. But yeah, I mean, if it's, if it's the wave that the unstoppable wave that's coming, everyone wants permanence. Like, you know, might as well get in now. We'll see what happens. But you know, I don't know. There's always, there's always something. And if you, if you like putting up lights too, like, I mean, you're, you're a big lights guy, obviously. But you know, it's, I've, I never really been super into lights. We, we do so much other stuff, mostly just roofs. But like, we might get into like, some other bigger projects and such like with with roofing and like gutters. Like, you know, we did a gutter job, we replaced the whole gutters and such. So we're, we're kind of getting into some stuff. Yeah.
But what's so funny about your business is like, you're like, not that into Christmas lights because you run, which is so foreign to so many people and actually profitable business to where like, at the end of the month, if you do 20,000 in sales, you're actually taking home more than three. Yeah, to your bank. We run like a very lean operation. Like, you know, most months, like, you know, even on like a good month, you know, 30, 40K is like, we're not making much more than that. But like, it's the, the, the profits so much higher because obviously, we know the Facebook ad numbers. Like, I could just [ __ ] run $400 a day on Facebook ads if I wanted to. But you know, profit and revenue are, as you know, different numbers. You know, the revenue is the vanity number, but profit's a sanity number. So yeah, exactly.
And so it's like, the reason I, the reason I say that too, is like, people brag, especially in the Christmas light community about doing, oh, we did 100K in our first year. And I was one of these people five years ago where they only talked about the top line because no one wanted to share what they profited because they all know like, we did 100K a year, we spent, you know, 15 on Google ads, 8K on Facebook, so now we're 23K in on just advertising. My labor was 25 grand, my insurance was another seven or eight. By the time everything was done, we profited nothing. So that's why everybody goes touting around, oh, we did 150K our first year, we did 200K our first year. Like, just tell me what the bottom line was, dude. Just tell me what the bottom line was. That's all we care about.
Yeah, yeah. And and that's a, yeah, just that's a thing, man. Just don't give a [ __ ] about what anyone else thinks about you or your business, too. It's like, you can do whatever you want. Like, you know, we got guys in my group, they they still work a full-time job. You know, as much as I don't like the 9 to 5 life, but they they're doing 9, 10K a month in their business. They just started doing, you know, roof, roofs or handyman work. And they also work their job. It's like, you can do whatever you want. You don't have to have a $100,000 per month business to be successful. If you're making, if you just want to quit your job, you know, have your own, have time to spend with your wife and kid and stuff. Like, you know, there is more to life than just, you know, making, making the number go up, you know?
Yeah, on the other side too. And I, I'm curious if you've had the same. I know off the camera, we were talking about like going to different conferences, the ones that you and I speak at and everything else. Um, one of my experiences has been like, within the conferences and then the Facebook groups, almost everybody is lying about their numbers because the more you have like a one-on-one conversation with them, you go like, oh, what's your cost per lead? Okay, what's your customer acquisition cost? What's your close rate? And then they go like, oh, your revenue was what? Okay, hold on. And then you start like, really letting people like, really spit out their numbers to you. And you're like, dude, you said you did 500K this season and then you said you did a 100 jobs, but you told us your average ticket was $1,500. So how does that make sense? Like, people are just lying everywhere. They don't even realize that like their numbers don't even add up. And so that's the other side is like, I think super important. The thing that you're constantly preaching is like, they're like, don't, don't listen to someone else's story and their numbers and look it within and be like, oh, I must be doing something wrong because most of the time on the internet, they're exaggerating or lying. Yeah.
And so then you're looking at their results and then being like, oh, what am I doing wrong? Like, we only did 90K this year, but we profited 50. But I must be doing something wrong to only do 90. It's like, no, you're doing it right. If you were happy with your business, like that's all that matters. Like, if you want 20 trucks on the road, awesome. If you want one truck and then also like start a freaking, you know, grow a a forest or have your own little organic garden. [ __ ] dude, like, you can do whatever you want. It's like, don't, yeah, don't compare yourself to people on the. Oh, man, yeah, the second you start getting into some of these mastermind groups too, oh my God. Yeah, do not compare yourself to like what quote unquote, the your favorite guru is doing online. Like, cuz you, me, we've seen behind the curtain. It's like, it's not as glamorous. Like, you know, they may may be making this all this money, but then you talk them on a on a call or whatever, and it's like, oh, man, I'm so stressed. I got this and that. It's like, well, you don't have to like push it that hard. You know, you can make less money and be a little chill. You still make great money. I don't know, man. That's kind of basic logic in my brain.
Yeah, yeah. No, I think that's really good. I, I think, yeah, that's. But I need the Rolex and the Lamborghini to be successful. If I don't have it, then I. And if you don't have it, and if your wife works, you have failed in life. That's that's the recent message. I've seen that video pop up a couple times. If your wife works, you are a failure as a man. And and I was like, damn, that's crazy. I mean, my wife doesn't work, but she, she might, she, she had a part-time job for a bit. She was, she loves doing like private boxing training. And it's like, I don't know, it's like, I don't think that if my wife wants to do, I mean, your wife, she, or not your wife, but your girlfriend, she has her own like social media business. It's like, I know it's just like, it's, it's, it's so, it just rubs my rubs my gears the wrong way when people are just like, this is the way. Like, you have, if you do this, if you don't do this, you are a failure. It's like, I, I hate it when people talk like that. So yeah.
Yeah, no, my girlfriend's got a social media wagon. It makes me feel. If I, if you think your social media made me feel bad, my girlfriend's social media makes me feel like I'm just wasting my time. Like, I mean, even, even my, my wife knew she's like, oh my gosh, she, that that's Alex Clark. I was like, who? I mean, obvious, none of none of my guy friends knew who she was. All of my guy, my friend's wives knew who you. Yeah. So I mean, I'm not exactly the target target audience of her. But. But I will tell you though, dude, I did cut out the seed oils and I do feel a lot better. That is true. And I, I do like my raw milk for sure as well. So.
Oh, you're on the raw milk train? I mean, not necessarily. Like, I'll, there's a little, little local butcher. They have raw milk. And you know, I'll just, every once in a while, I'll buy like a quart of it. Me and the dog will just go in on it. So I'll give him a little bowl and he just loves it. So I mean, you, you have dogs too. They, they know the, they know the drill, dude. Yeah.
No, that's she's got me off. She's got me off the, uh, all the seed oils. She got me eating grass-fed organic. And then she's like, slowly replacing all my toiletries with like, dye-free organic. Like, my toothpaste tastes like ass now. My shampoo is like, whatever. I mean, the toothpaste is good, don't get me wrong. But it's, I mean, there's a reason that the artificial stuff. That's a problem with [ __ ] the natural deodorant and stuff. They don't [ __ ] work, dude. It sucks. It sucks. Cuz like, my wife, she'll complain all the time. Like, I'm like, I'm trying to use this organic stuff, but it just doesn't work, man. The natural. I will say, like, deodorants, the one, one that I think does not clear compared to the aluminum, like bad corporate products. Everything else I've had, very, it's been very easy. The foods actually taste better. Like, she's like an amazing cook. That helps. But like, the toothpaste is fine. I was kind of exaggerating. It's actually completely fine. The, I use like beef tallow moisturizer now, which like, actually, it's kind of nice.
No, you're looking good, bro. You're looking. Thank you. Yeah, yeah. Oh, it's, it's, yeah, it's jing back the clock a little bit. But yeah, everything else is whatever. But yeah, regardless, I don't know how we got on that tangent. But yeah, it's, when you have your farm, you'll be able to get your raw milk directly from the source. So that's the goal.
Yeah, dude, we will see. I'm excited. That's and that's kind of what I want to pivot the channel too. I'm actually, I'm, uh, I'm driving down down to Vancouver, down south of the state for those who don't know. And I'm meeting with some like, they're like around our age. And they they do like developments. They do they've been building houses there. His whole message was like, get a build a house as quick as you can. And then you can like leverage that equity in two years. You can just every two years, you can either sell the house or take that equity out, build another house. So he's built like, you know, 200 plus projects. So it's a, it's a really cool, cool message of just, you know, you can get into, make your money this way. And then just set it aside. You know, get into real estate, get into whatever. Like, just do whatever you can. Start, start a software business. Like, you know, even, even in my group too, I got guys, you know, if they sign up their friends with for the software, like they get a cut as well. Monthly, monthly recurring revenue. So it's like, there's just so much stuff, man. There's just like, whatever makes you happy. Or whoever's listening to this, whatever makes you happy. Like, do that, dude. Like, that's awesome.
Yeah, I'm not a real estate expert. But are you referring to the Burr method? The BRRRR method or whatever? Isn't that what you're referring to? Buy, rent, rehab, res. I don't know. It's like, maybe something like it. His is a little different. I know it's like, they're actually like building it themselves. Like, they're buying a plot of land and building it on it. Or they, they, they're doing a bunch of stuff. And I've looked at that too, cuz like, you know, side, side quest too. I built a website for my brother-in-law. And like, that thing's doing great for concrete, concrete work. And they have to sub out all the excavation work. So my little brain is like, ooh, I can, I can buy more tools. And it's a business expense. So the tool is free. So there's like, an excavator that, you know, we could buy for, you know, 30 grand. The payment is only $700 bucks a month. We can make more than $700 bucks a month. So I don't know. There's all sorts of stuff. When you know how to get your own leads and stuff, it's like, you can just do more [ __ ]. Like, whatever. It's a universal skill. You could use it for anything.
Yeah, no, it's, uh, I Googled it. So I didn't misspeak. But it's buy, rehab, rent, refinance, repeat. So like, buy, renovate, re, refinance. Yeah, I think it's like, I think the, the classic, it's for like, yeah, you buy a house that like needs stuff. And then you fix it up and sell it. So. And that, and that's the thing. I don't never really got like super excited about real estate. But like, it's like, I, I, I want to build something too. I just like, I'm just getting the itch. The itch to build. I mean, I grew up watching like, Alaska: The Last Frontier where Dick Proenneke, he's like building the [ __ ] cabin. Remember that? You know that what I'm talking about?
No, but I'm going to nod my head like I do. Make you feel better. It's like, he's just building this cabin in Alaska, like in the snow, just like chopping wood. And just like, I don't know, man. Just call me a simple salt of the earth type, man. But like, that's that's who I am, bro. We don't need much. We don't need much. It ain't much, but it's honest work.
All right, parting words for anybody watching and they don't have a home service business and they're starting it from scratch. What is your advice to Spencer five years ago, starting from scratch?
Yeah, I mean, just make sure that you like what you do. Like, if you don't like to do windows, don't do windows. I don't, I don't [ __ ] touch windows. I hate windows. So don't do what you don't like to do. And and look, look into the future. Like, what are you going to want to be doing years from now? Maybe it's not even like. And you can do little side quests too. Like, you can start whatever and just, you know, feel it out. You know, I just love being self-employed. You know, I kind of got, I don't necessarily see my time in like any of the jobs that I used to have or or working with the the Navy Reserve. Like doing all that back when I was in, you know, it's good experience. Teaches you what you don't want to do in life. So, you know, just, just start. Starting a home service business for me was like, was the right move. And so you, that's why I kind of hesitate to be like, starting a home service business is the only way to make it in this world. It's like, you know, that's. But for me, I love it. I can work outside. I can make money. I can post about online, make money online. You know, help guys with their websites, software, write books, all that sort of stuff. There's just, you know, just be a, be a good person. Provide value to to the world. And you really can't go wrong.
I like that. So find what you love and you'll never work a day in your life.
Oh, I hate to say it, but, you know, simple. I mean, we're going to be working. I say this all the time, but we're going to be working till the day we die anyways. Like, that's not the other people. I don't like it's like, oh, I retired at age 30 and now I just sit around and on the beach. And I was like, dude, [ __ ] that dude. Catch me dead before you catch me doing nothing. So I did that, uh, mostly between year two. So when Christmas jumped a little bit, and then I had guys running junk. I was like, oh, that's what I want to do. I want to take my Christmas money for three months a year and then retire for nine months a year, every year. So like, quasi retire. You know, that's the lifestyle I thought I want.
How many days did you last?
Uh, March. And then I was like, basically like needed to check into an insane asylum. Like, you are not, you were not meant to not work as a man. I truly don't. I truly believe that. Like, I don't care if it sounds like hustle bro culture. Like, you don't have to be working 880 hours a week in like hustle culture nonsense. But like, you need a goal and a purpose and a something to build as a dude. And like, maybe as a woman too, but I'm not a woman, so I can't play on to that. But like, dude, never have I been more miserable than when I didn't have to work for nine months.
Yeah, no, I'm the same way. So ever, I last about two, two days on the beach. I mean, it's cool. I love the beach. But I last about two days sipping piña coladas and I'm like, uh, where's my laptop? I got to get do something. You know, it scratches me, you know. So yeah.
But now that you got a kid, dude, you're going to have to figure out how to rest and relax.
Oh, yeah. I mean, a kid will slow you down for sure. And and it teaches you a lot about life. So honestly, having a kid was, it's amazing. But it's, it is a lot of [ __ ] work. It's like, your time is just who. But it's, you know, it's the journey of life. And that's, you know, that's what it's all about, man. So I don't know what else is there to do besides make money, provide value to the world, have a good, beautiful family. Like, that's that's it, you know?
That seems like a pretty good, uh, that seems like a pretty good life.
Yeah, I like it, dude. Thanks for coming on.
All right, Steve. No, great, great time as always. Hey, I'll talk to you soon, dude.
Sweet. See you, man.
All right, later.