Transcription
Hey everybody, and welcome to our first ever Clarity Podcast Sunday study. Sunday studies are simply for the purpose of doing deep dives into Bible stories, and sometimes just doing a deep dive into what's happening in our world and how the Lord would want us to navigate it.
So, this is our first ever Sunday study, and we're super excited. And we hope this is going to be a bombshell episode. Um, there's a lot of talk in these circles about polygamy, and how polygamy originated with Brigham Young in the LDS church. And there's a lot of argument: Did Joseph practice polygamy? Did Joseph not practice polygamy? We do not believe that Joseph Smith practiced polygamy, and we do believe that Brigham Young started it. And there is a very specific reason. So, is polygamy really just about a bunch of guys that wanted to commit whoredoms, which is bad enough all by itself? Or is there a lot deeper, more evil reason for why these men were practicing polygamy? We're going to jump into all of this today. All this and more here on today's Clarity Podcast.
Everyone has [music] a journey they are walking. And along that road, we are met with potholes, road bumps, rain, storms, and sometimes just fog. But through it all, we're really just [music] looking for one thing: clarity. Clarity, so we can walk with confidence in that next step. [music] There's one source I run to for that clarity. In the darkest of nights, Jesus offers me light [music] that shines through even the thickest storms. Welcome to the Clarity Podcast, where we [music] find clarity through the one who saves us all. >> [music] >>
So today, we brought my mom, Leanne Dalton, to discuss this topic of [music] eugenics. And Mom is a little bit of an expert in this area, simply because she's been in the circle of [music] people who are chronically ill. And she's been chronically ill for about 10 years. And after you've had this many years of chronic illness, you start to notice a pattern. And the pattern is that you're often treated like less than, um, in society, in your social circles, and you're especially treated less than in the Mormon church. And that has not, that is the same story across the board. People I talk to that are chronically ill, if you can't hold down a calling, you don't have much purpose in the church. Now, that's not really what the scriptures teach when we look at Jesus and what he did, where he went to the sick people. He healed sick people. He considered them to be, to be worth so much value in the sight of God. And so, why exactly are sick people treated this way? And why has this been my mom's experience, my experience, many people's experience within the church? So, Mom is the researcher in our family, and she has been doing a deep dive into the topic of eugenics. So, Mom, why don't you go ahead and answer the question, what is eugenics? What, what even is that?
>> Okay. Well, eugenics is the science of selective human breeding. So, just like we do selective breeding with livestock, the science of selectively breeding humans was, was begun around 1883. Actually, probably earlier than that, but the term was coined in 1883 by Francis Galton, who was a cousin of Charles Darwin. So, he coined that term, and, um, I, I kind of believe that there were a lot of people who were, who wanted that to be happening, selective breeding amongst humans, long before that. But there wasn't any, um, spotlight put on the science until about that time.
>> So, just to put this in, like, layman's terms, so we're farmers, so we raise goats. So, when you're looking to buy a male goat, you're looking for, or, or even a female goat to add to your herd, you're looking for top, um, milk lines, the best producer, the ones that have the perfect shaped udder and the perfect hip structure. And that's what you look for when you're looking for goats, because you want to build a herd that will produce a lot of milk, but then ones that also look the most beautiful so that you can sell them. Okay, that's blue-eyed goats, polled goats. That's what you do in farming. So, is this what you're saying is that they're basically creating this breed that is higher in elevation than other people? Except we're not talking about goats here. We're talking about people.
>> Yes. That, that was the philosophy. But with animals, that when you're doing that, they're fulfilling their purpose to either produce extra milk or, um, to, to produce good quality meat, or whatever. And that, and that's their purpose. But people have tried to apply that to human beings, saying that human beings are born with genetic traits that make some races superior than others. And so that's the premise behind eugenics.
>> That's wild. Okay. So, why does this matter right now? Like, what, what's the point? Like, who cares if they're doing this? Why, why is this important right now at this time in history?
>> Okay. Well, [clears throat] among other reasons, the Epstein files have brought lots of things into the light. Um, more things than we actually want to look at at this point. But the Epstein files also brought eugenics into the light because he was an, a eugenicist, and he discussed plans that he would openly see the human race with his DNA, and that, that's what he believed he needed to do. His 32-page diary reveals that he had eugenics ideology, and that he used wealth and, um, global influence to access elite science circles, um, elite technology circles, and, and go after this idea that, that this is what we needed to do. We need to create a super race of human beings through genetic engineering.
>> So, you're saying that all of this trafficking going on at Epstein Island is not just about the horrible sexual acts, which that's horrible all by itself. We are not downplaying that. But you're saying it's also about eugenics.
>> It is about that. And that's one of the reasons why people are concerned that information ties him to some people in the LDS church who talked about receiving a pint of blood, a pint of Mormon blood. And that was the one thing that nobody could really explain and what that meant. But if you really understand his philosophies, then you can, you know, [snorts] start to draw some, some conclusions about what he, what he was doing with that.
>> But despite what you're talking about, he was doing other despicable, awful things. But the ideology behind some of what he was doing was eugenics.
>> Okay. So, let's get into what does this have to do with Utah? Like, what are Utah's eugenics? Like, do they have eugenics laws? What's going on in Utah when it comes to this particular topic?
>> Yeah. So, there was a eugenics law in 1925 that was passed in Utah. And actually, it lasted for over five decades. So, this law forced the, forced sterilization of individuals that were either considered criminal or insane, feeble-minded. Even epilepsy was considered a reason to sterilize somebody. And because these people were, they believed that they were more likely to pass on these socially inadequate traits. So, Utah passed a law. They weren't the only state that passed a law. There was eugenics circles all across the nation. Um, and, and so Utah was one of them. So, for the next five decades in Utah, after 1925, they actually sterilized 830 men, women, and some children who were victims of a state, of a state-sponsored sterilization program. And it was based on this pseudoscience of eugenics that, that we had to call out these undesirable traits amongst these people. So, um, that's how Utah started. And it was actually Utah's law was considered one of the strongest eugenics laws that there was. And that Utah was actually ahead of most states in practicing doing those kind of sterilizations amongst people in their state. And there were many states that, that said, "Oh, Utah's the greatest. Their sterilization program, um, is hailed as an important achievement in public health."
>> Can you give us, like, an example? Like, can you tell us about this girl that was raped and then they ended up sterilizing her?
>> Yeah. So, in 1928, so which is three years after the law was passed, there was a Utah girl that was actually, um, she went to her religious leader. And I don't know who that was, but she went to her religious leader and she, she reported that she was being repeatedly raped by a family member. And her religious leader did not believe her. He sent her to the state hospital, the Utah State Hospital. And it's the state hospital and institutions like that that were doing most of the sterilizations. And she was diagnosed as a, and she was sterilized. And, um, they just, there was no recourse for what they did. Um, she didn't have any, uh, chance to defy what they did to her. And, and so, um, that's the kind of thing that was happening without, without any oversight, too. Because most of these people that were, that this was happening to, it was either like your religious leader, or it was the state, state hospital personnel that were deciding this, the deciding who, who would be sterilized and who would not.
>> So, it looks like in the early 20th century, there was about 60,000 individuals across the United States that were victims of this eugenics program.
>> Yes. Um, that they were doing. And that's across the United States, because there, there were other states that were doing it as well. However, um, a lot of other states actually ended the sterilization law in their states much earlier than Utah did. Utah was, was more, they had a stubborn persistence of keeping that law in place for some reason. And other states didn't. And they even apologized to their victims. Some of them, they paid, they paid money to the victims because they realized what a heinous law it was. But Utah did not. Utah never did that. They were the most aggressive eugenics program in the United States, even hailed in 1947 as a great achievement in public health. And, and Utah never apologized for what they did.
>> Okay. So, what about the LDS church? What do they have to do with this at all? Like, were they involved? Were they putting money towards it? What does the LDS church have to do with this?
>> Yeah. Well, the, the LDS church never opposed Utah's eugenics laws. In short, they not only failed to oppose them, but they endorsed the ideology. They promoted it through its leaders, and they played a role in its implementation. So, allegedly, some people say that LDS social workers were also helped to identify candidates for sterilization. And, and they do say that no general authority ever opposed, ever publicly opposed the practice in that 45 years that, that it was in Utah. Well, and it looks like there's a whole lot of quotes that are the opposite of opposing. There's a whole lot of quotes from general authorities that they actually promoted this concept of eugenics and creating this perfect race. So, can we get into that?
>> Yeah, that's correct. So, um, three years before, before 1860, three years before George Q. Cannon became, um, an apostle, was called to the quorum of the 12, he published an article in the Western Standard, which was a Mormon newspaper, and it was entitled "The Improvement of Our Species." And this is, this was, um, some quotes from his article. He said, "Doubtless, it is and ought to be the duty of legislators and conservators of our race to introduce such regulations and laws and enforce them as are best calculated to develop our physical nature. A well-formed, healthy, vigorous race should be the end sought." And then he went on to to compare us, the children of, of Greece, the Spartans, that they belonged to the government. And that's, that's what they were, were promoting, that the children should belong to the government, which appointed competent persons that would, would be over their physical and their mental training. And when the fit time arrived, they would marry them off. And they would constantly keep in view this improvement of the race. So, and he went on to say other things. He said, "License to marry should not come from the priest, but from the physician." It says, "It'll be when the law forbids the healthy to beget children, when it compels every man to marry, and then when it suffers no healthy girl should ever remain single when she becomes a proper age, because this is her duty to contribute to this perfect race." And he also went on to say that the Christian monogamy, which was being taught, encourages prostitution, and because it forbids plural marriage. And so, this is where the connection to polygamy comes in. So, whether or not they were using it as a justification for polygamy, or it, it actually came before polygamy, it was one of the reasons why polygamy, you know, began in the first place. Um, it's pretty evident by some of these quotes from some of these general authorities. It says, um, "As long as monogamy is the law, you're going to," this is what his quote was, "that you're going to have bastardy, whoredom, and degeneracy." And he was just one of many.
>> That's just George Q. Cannon. That's, that's there's so many more. But I just want to point out too, that this concept of, like, you're gonna have whoredoms if you don't have polygamy, that's also being pushed now by people like Morgan Philpot and some of these LDS apologists that are even just podcasters. This idea that, well, if we don't have, you know, polygamous marriages, then that's when all the men are going to run to porn and adultery, and polygamy is the answer for that, which is not what scripture teaches at all.
>> That's right. So, can you get into some of the other people that had something to say on this?
>> Absolutely. So, B.H. Roberts, Brigham Henry Roberts, he was a theologian and a historian, and he was a general authority as well. He was quoted as saying, "It was in the name of a divinely ordered species of eugenics that Latter-day Saints accepted the revelation which included a plurality of wives. Polygamy would have afforded the opportunity of producing from that consecrated fatherhood and motherhood the improved type of man the world needs to reveal the highest possibilities of the race, that the day of the superman, and remember that this is what Epstein was referring to, to creating the superman, might come, and with him come also the redemption and betterment of the race." That was a quote by B.H. Roberts. What next? Who else? Who else talked about these things?
>> So, okay, this was the prophet of the church, Joseph Fielding Smith. He very much, uh, supported eugenic principles and he referred to efforts to prevent, you had to prevent the unfit from pre-, from reproducing. So, he called it "Christian eugenics." So, [gasps] so he's actually saying that Christ was okay with this because this was Christian eugenics, and he said it was a movement that was, had great expectations. So, he was an apostle, later president of the church, and he public-, in publicly endorsed Christian eugenics in the early 20th century. So, he wrote a book in 1931 called "The Way to Perfection," and he said it, it was very important that we, we prevent the unfit from propagating their kind. And then his views really went along with the popular views of all the eugenicists at the time, which sought to improve the human race. And they were deeply intertwined with racial and theological hierarchies within the church. For example, they believed that black people were less than white people were. And, and this was Epstein, too, that he believed that black people were less intellectual than white people. And so they promoted racial things. They promoted the idea that, that, uh, certain genetic traits could prove that you were a criminal, or you, you would end up being poor someday. Those doctrines by B.H. Roberts and George Q. Cannon and Joseph F. Smith, they all contributed to the fact that that's why Utah passed their sterilization law in the first place.
>> So, in a church that is promoting that we have lots of children and that we multiply and replenish the earth, that's what they're promoting with their words behind the curtain, they're also promoting, well, only if you're this blond-haired, blue-eyed, healthy, strong. And that's exactly the opposite of what the scriptures teach, where Jesus taught us to go and help even the least of these, that even the least of these mattered in the sight of God. So, very, very different than what the scriptures are teaching. And, and you have to understand that one of the things that we're talking about here is they're promoting the idea that one man with a lot of women, Yeah. Yeah, you're going to get some defective children in there, but you're going to get a lot more that are not defective. And that was the idea behind, Yeah, you have to have lots of wives so you have lots more opportunity to get these, these good traits. And that, that goes back to the most famous aspect of eugenics that we know about was Hitler and the Nazis. So, Hitler, and this was not something that was ever taught in our history classes at all, but Hitler actually created what they call the Lebensborn program, which was a program where he actually from birth on, he, he took unwed mothers and children and then he put them into these homes where they were picked by their genetic qualities, and a lot of it was blonde hair, blue eyes. So, but not always. But blonde hair, blue eyes, the Aryan race. And they put them into these homes, these institutions where they raised these children from birth on up to, to understand Nazi doctrine and to become the perfect race. So, like, little girls were raised so that they would later mate with some of the military men in the Nazi regime, and they would end up having perfect children, and that, this would continue on and on and on. And if, if any of these girls or men, uh, went against this program, a lot of times they were considered, they didn't need to exist anymore. And that, that was the biggest form of eugenics that was the most awful. But you can tell that that philosophy has kept going in many areas of our society.
>> Wow. So the church is following Nazi protocols?
>> In some ways. Yes. Because the philosophy, the ideology behind it is that the Lord wants us to have this superior race that's genetically superior in every way, which is in direct opposition to everything that Christ taught.
>> Right. So, let's talk about our favorite false prophet, Brigham Young. [laughter] What did Brigham Young have to do with any of this? And what was he involved in this, this concept of eugenics, or was he just a dude that wants to sleep with a bunch of women?
>> He was raising children just like the Lebensborn program. He, he was one man for a whole bunch of different women. And these children were raised in their home. And it was about selective reproduction and, and teaching them brainwashing, an ideology that if you don't become a polygamist, you're not going to make it to the celestial kingdom, which we all know that that's a philosophy still existing in the church because you can see it today. But eugenicists loved the Mormons because Brigham Young was, and Brigham Young was their favorite because he was called an, an illustrator of prepotency, which is a term used by breeders of livestock. That, that we, we are symbols of prepotency. These men that are superior men in their genetics and everything, they're symbols of prepotency. And so, in 1928, there was an article entitled "Eugenics and Mormonism." And the author was talking about it, showed pictures of all of Brigham Young's children and how they had these perfect qualities. And that was what was being touted at the time, that that the polygamists had stronger, more intelligent, better children, better looking children. And that, and then the one thing in the article that was really funny in some ways was that they were concerned about the Mormons and how the Mormons, if they kept preaching from the scriptures, then the less intellectual youth would end up in the church because they wouldn't tow the line about polygamy, and how this, this superior race, if they actually went to the scriptures, they, they would be deceived and they would come away from, from doing polygamy. And the other threat was that the Relief Society was doing out, uh, money to morons and feeble-minded people, and that this was terrible. They shouldn't be doing that, and, and that would tolerate the the production of more defective children.
>> Wow. Um, you shared with me a quote, um, by Brigham Young's daughter, or something that she said about this. What, what did his daughter have to say about this?
>> Yeah. So, in 1907, she said, "It would be difficult to find a finer race of men and women that were morally, mentally, and physically better than than has been produced through polygamous marriage." So, polygamy was intended to raise up seed that was physically superior to the rest of humankind. So, I don't, you know, I never understood that that was part of what they were really trying to do.
>> Right. Okay. So, let's jump forward to today, because we know that things look different today than they looked back in Brigham Young's time. So, if you're watching this and you've never been LDS, the LDS church does not currently openly practice polygamy. They do practice eternal polygamy, meaning you're, you can be sealed to multiple wives if one of your wives dies and the husband is still alive. So, there's eternal polygamy, but we're not just open. The LDS church is not just open polygamists right now. So, what does it look like right now? And what are some of these hints that eugenics is still alive and well in the church? Like, is, are there hints that eugenics is still alive and well in the church?
>> Okay. Yeah, there are a lot of signs that eugenics is still alive and well in the church. There are some that are a lot less obvious, but have taken place over time. And then there are some more obvious signs in the church right now. For example, uh, I believe Joseph just did a podcast on the FAIR program, and that it's promoting that with support from the church, that we need to be teaching about polygamy again. And then, of course, there was the Primary program that, uh, there was a lesson in Primary that they were required, you know, we haven't been in the church for a while, but they, they were wanting to teach the, to the little children, why polygamy was important.
>> And then I guess the most obvious one recently is President Oaks talking about how, >> about your first, >> you need to get young women married off in their missions, as long as they don't do it right at the beginning of the mission, and it's, it's just for their first marriage. And so, >> which actually, when you connect the dots about that, what were these men that were going on missions in Brigham Young's time actually doing?
>> Yeah. >> They were going out finding wives.
>> We know what they were doing. >> They were going out finding wives. And so now we're promoting these young men to essentially go on your mission, go out and find a wife. Huh. What does that sound like?
>> Yeah. And there were quotes from Brigham Y. Young talking about he, they wanted the most beautiful women to be, >> to be the general authorities' wives. And for that, he deserved to have the most beautiful women. And what is that if it's not eugenics? You're looking for these, these perfect traits.
>> And what is a big, like, just cultural thing in the church is looking perfect? I have a friend in Virginia, and she was LDS, lived in Utah for most of her life. She lives in Virginia now. And she's like, "Just the culture shock of how much plastic surgery is in Utah. How thick women wear makeup, their hair has to be perfect and dyed." This is a huge Utah thing. And when she moved to Virginia, she's like, "Women are just totally different when it comes to looks." Like, they just look like normal women. Utah is very much about you have to look a certain way. They'll never say this in a church meeting, but when you go to church, you look top-notch, especially in singles, that are just meat markets, people looking for a spouse, you look your best. So, that I'm not saying there's anything inherently wrong with looking your best, but when you're going to extremes of plastic surgery and looking fake, and that's a culture, that's a cultural habit, there's a problem that we're seeing. Yes. And there's, there's a lot of, I mean, I guess you would say that that was one of the less obvious things because these are things that have taken place over time. But for example, I know a lot of people have talked about this, even when I joined the church. So, I joined the church when I was 19, and, and we were told we were the best generation ever.
>> We're still being told that.
>> Every generation is told the same thing over and over again because they're putting forth this idea that we are, we are better than everybody else. That, >> and, and that's a little hard to understand because there's obviously many problems in the church, like pornography amongst the young men, and, and many other things. But we're still telling them that you are the most valiant spirits ever. Even if you're sinning, even if you're doing all kinds of evil things, you're still the, the best generation ever. Then there's also what we would call spiritual hierarchies in the church. And we saw this because my husband and I were both converts to the church. But, um, you're taught, you follow your leaders, even if they're wrong. So, even if they're wrong, you're not supposed to think for yourself. Their ideas, their philosophies are what you're supposed to follow, no matter what, because they are superior in some way to you, intellectually, morally. They're superior to you. Um, I think there's an extra layer in the church of eugenics, too, because it's not just saying you're this perfect, you know, blue-eyed, blond-haired race, but it's like you're the perfect blue-eyed blonde hair and in the church. Yes.
>> Because they tell you if you leave the church, you've lost all of your salvation. Your salvation's gone. You have no chance at the celestial kingdom. Um, and that's just another way of like, we have to be creating this perfect race. And if you're part of the perfect race, you're in the church because you are this chosen people in the church.
>> Exactly. Yes. And then, and converts, I mean, my husband and I are both converts, so maybe we see this more than other people see this, but converts are really less likely to rise in the ranks of leadership. Um, because unless they make lots of money, or they, they tow the party line, they're going to be okay with all the prop, church propaganda. If you go against the church propaganda, you are unlikely to receive higher callings. And in fact, in some cases, they'll stick you somewhere where you're, you're just out of the way, and you're doing the work in the church. But those are basically these spiritual hierarchies. And, and what about the priesthood leaders where they're all, they all come with the idea that the whole goal is, is not to gain a relationship with Jesus and to follow Jesus, but the whole goal is to rise in the ranks of leadership. So you can tell everybody what to do because you're smarter, better, brighter, and everything else than they are.
>> Or what about, um, Elder Bednar, where he talked about how instead of having the faith to be healed, we have the faith to not be healed? Or in other words, saying it's God's will that you got cancer and died. Okay.
>> Yeah. Okay. >> Like that's not faith.
>> So, that actually, that actual story actually happened when I was just beginning my chronic illness journey. And so it was, it was extremely hard for me to understand what he was exactly saying. Um, to be fair, let, let me tell you what he was saying. He said, he taught that having faith to not be healed means trusting in God's will and timing, even if the healing does not occur.
>> Which is funny that he says that, because then as a member of the church who's chronically ill, everybody still always acts like there's something wrong with you. So, it's like, "Oh, well, have the faith not to be healed, but also have the faith that everyone's going to treat you like dirt while you're having the faith not to be healed." Like, [laughter] it really doesn't line up.
>> It also goes against the idea that we supposedly have the priesthood to bless people when they are sick. But what did we ever see when, when we requested blessings? Most, sometimes, sometimes I was turned down. People, didn't, priesthood leaders who were in high positions of leadership, like stake presidencies or bishoprics, wouldn't give me a blessing. Why wouldn't you give me a blessing if you actually believe that you have that power and that authority? So, why wouldn't you do that? Or the blessing that's, we bless you that you will go to the hospital. Even though, can you imagine if Jesus would have just said to the woman with the issue of blood, "I now bless you that you're going to go back to those doctors that didn't do anything for you," and that is your blessing? She would have, um, left feeling very defeated that day.
>> Okay, but that's not what happened.
>> Exactly. You're not really teaching a principle of faith because faith isn't teaching you to look to God and die. You're supposed to look to God and live. And so, and the church, my husband said this in his podcast, the church is teaching that that looking to God and living means taking your medications. And that, that was strange as well. But, but you have to ask the question, if the apostles feel like we are the best, and you're going to, if you leave the church, you're going to lose all your blessings, then why aren't they giving priesthood blessings? Why aren't they not healing people? Why do you not see those fruits in the church? Do the apostles even have the power to heal?
>> Where are these blessings that we keep talking about in the church? Because if the only blessing in the church is just that you get to go to a fancy mansion called the temple, and then think that you're better than everyone else, I don't see what the blessings of being in the church are.
>> Yeah. Exactly. Another thing that we saw was that when, when we first started getting sick, we would go to these stake conferences, and at the beginning, they would be showing films that were created by the church. And in these films, there would be people that had experienced, people that were in their families that had died of cancer. One woman where she'd lost her husband, she lost some of her sons, she'd lost a whole bunch of people, and she was, she was saying that this is, this was the will of God that she go through this, and that, and that these men were taken away. And those, those philosophies saying that that God really wants you to die. And I, I think that philosophy is not true. Like, if you get cancer, that you're defective. And that's where this idea comes in where you're talking about that you're treated differently because they actually believe that, well, if you get cancer, you are defective.
>> I really think that the ultimate will of God is for us to be healed. And that looks different for everybody. I don't believe if you haven't been healed, you just lack faith. I don't believe that.
>> But I do believe that, like, ultimately the Lord wants us to heal. And I think that sometimes we have to, like, walk this road that is this experience where we learn through the healing, and that's why it takes time. But I don't think that it's just the Lord's will that we, um, are ill, or that we fall and have an accident, and then the hospital injures us further, or that, like, that's not just God's will for us. I think the Lord truly wants what's best for us, and he allows things to happen to us, um, for our benefit. But some of these things that are happening to us are the result of just evil in the world, in a way. And so, so that goes back to another thing that Hitler was doing with his eugenics programs. He was actually taking twins, >> as, as small children. And what he was doing was, he would give some kind of pathogen to, to one of the twins that would get really sick, and then they would not do that with the other twin. They would keep the other twin away, and they would make that twin get really, really sick. The, the one twin get very sick, and then they would take the strong twin and expose them to the other one and see if the other twin was strong enough to not have this disease. And so it was just another one of these experiments to see the strong should live and the weak should die. And that's where that philosophy comes from. And that's, that's one of the reasons why what you're talking about is that's how people look at people. Don't look at Job, Job's story and really understand what Job's story was all about. But they actually believe that the strong should live and the weak should die.
>> Yeah. And we saw that during 2020.
>> We did. >> That people actually believe that. So, let's get into some more signs in the church. But I want to bring up the, the Mormon podcasters that are putting forth this idea in really very odd ways. Okay. We have Word Radio claiming that Mormons have better sex than everyone else. Is that a biblical teaching or a scientific study? I don't know where they're getting that, or why it matters. Like, why does that matter if what we're talking about isn't a real thing? Who cares? Like, why, why is that an important topic that has to be a 45-minute episode of Word Radio?
>> Exactly. They're also saying that we have the most beautiful women. Why are they saying that? I mean, that's been a thing in, in Utah for a very long time, that people have said, "Well, when you go to Utah, you're going to see the most beautiful women ever." And, and where did that come from? Where did that originate?
>> And again, why does it matter? Like, there is nothing about in scripture about how the most beautiful women are the best, and that the Lord looks highly upon them. That, that isn't anywhere in scripture. No, truly, God is no respecter of persons.
>> And he, and he loves all of his children, and, and we are all different and unique. Be, beauty isn't, isn't determined by these traits. God, God does not look at us that way. Mhm. All right, let's talk about some of the more serious signs in the church. Let's, let's do a deep dive. Let's talk about the population database first, before we get into family history. Okay. So, this one, this one, it really hits home a lot for me because, um, I'm a convert to the church. And when I joined the church, I, um, decided that I believed in, in the doctrine that if, when we went to the temple, that I could do temple work for our family, and that that would help them. And so, so I took it upon myself to do genealogy, and I really loved it because I really loved knowing where I came from, knowing who the people were in my family, and, and my family on both sides of my family, both my mother and my father kept lots of pictures and records and their writings about their own Christian ethics and their, their lives in Christianity and how they lived, and, and it just meant a lot to me, and I loved doing, I loved finding out about it, and then I would take these names to the temple, and I spent hours, literally, you know, thousands and thousands of hours doing my genealogy, and really loved the work. But, but then I discovered later, later, a lot of things about the genealogy programs of the church. So, the population database, the Utah Population Database was compiled with the assistance of the church, and they collected data on over 7.3 million individuals. So, and that was in the, the reason why, I guess they said they did this was that it was instrumental in identifying genes that contributed to 50 diseases. So, this is this theory of genetic illness, that if your mother has cancer of a certain kind, you're going to get, you, you have a better likelihood that you're going to have that cancer, too. So, and what they don't tell you is that this isn't just about genetics. Disease is not just about genetics. What they're actually doing is creating things that make us ill. And they're, we are the test subjects, guys. Like, we are the test subjects to find out who's the strongest and who's going to live through all the toxins that they put us through. And that's pretty wild when you think about it, but we are living, living proof. The two of us in this room are living proof that this is what they're doing, and it's affecting so many families right now. And so, I think it's really important that we are also aware of that, that we are the experiments.
>> Yeah, you're right. In the recent years, they've proved that most of that isn't even true. So, for example, the tendency to get breast cancer is the BRCA gene, and, um, and they know now, less than 10% of women who have the BRCA gene will actually get breast cancer. So, because there's actual answers for not getting breast, don't wear your cell phone in your bra. Eat good food. Don't eat sugar. Don't put your cell phone in your pocket. Like, there's so many things that cause it that you simply have to remove from your life that are very easy lifestyle changes, and you won't get breast cancer. But that's not something that is talked about almost anywhere anymore.
>> No. And that's the science of epigenetics, which is really what they're discovering. It's really all about your environmental stressors, like your toxins in your food, your air, um, traumas that you are exposed to, things like that. Those are the things that actually affect your cells. And, and so you could have a predisposition for cancer, but, but that's only going to be triggered if you have certain environmental stimuli, which you are right, we are being given by the very people that are, are talking about this science.
>> Okay. >> And it's super simple. You turn these genes off by changing your habits and healing your traumas.
>> Exactly. >> Okay. So, let's get into ancestry, and what does all this have to do with your, your genealogy and ancestry?
>> Okay. So, in 2013, so they started with the Utah Population Database, but in 2013, um, which was the beginning of our chronic illness, of my chronic illness journey, anyway. And so, I, so I was doing genealogy, and I wasn't really aware of what was going on in the church. But in 2013, the church sold over a billion records to, that had been indexed by unpaid volunteers, but they took all of that information that we had done, and they sold it to Ancestry.com for $60 million. Um, and that, that database significantly expanded the information that Ancestry had, as well as three other genealogy platforms that they were promoting at the time. And they gave us, they gave us free access, uh, for five years to these genealogy platforms. And so, most of us that didn't really know what was going on were like, "Oh, wow. This is really great. This is so super, because now we can, we have more information to find our ancestors." And it did help to do that. But that data included birth records, marriage records, census records that were originally stored in the Granite Mountain Records Vault. And it was personal data, it from your family that was collected by volunteers, and then it was also the DNA testing that was performed at the request of the customer. So, you could send in your DNA data, and just like what they're doing now, and you could have your, your DNA tested to see, you know, what, what's your family history background, where did you come from? So, they sent all of that to Ancestry, gave all of that to Ancestry. So, they gave you all your private, confidential family information that you had, you had worked on and labored over for years and years to Ancestry.com for $60 million. And one of the reasons why this was, yeah, >> concerning. >> Why is that okay? It's a family history company, that's fine. Right? Okay. So, what next?
>> Okay. Well, and that's what President Hinckley said. President Hinckley, Gordon B. Hinckley, was quoted as saying that, "All our vast family history endeavor is directed to temple work. There is no other purpose for it." And so, if there is no other purpose for it, why would they sell for $60 million? So, then in 2021, Ancestry was purchased by a New York investment firm called the Blackstone Group, and it was purchased for $4.7 billion. So, Blackstone and BlackRock were both historically, they fell under the same umbrella group, but then they separated. And Blackstone said that when they acquired this, this for $4.7 million billion, excuse me, billion dollars, $4.7 billion, they said that they, it will not access, store, or use the DNA data. That's what they said. But the company's privacy policy allows for the use of genetic information in scientific research and developing new products. So, and there's no federal law that currently restricts how they can use that data. So, they're not restricted from using it in any way they can. And any company that spent $4.7 billion isn't just going to collect subscription fees from from people who want to do their genealogy. So, privacy experts are saying that that genetic data that is integrated with detailed family histories poses some very serious risks to us, because researchers have shown that DNA data from public databases can be used to identify individuals and their relatives, even if their names are masked or redacted. So, any, anybody who, um, uses direct-to-consumer genetics products like DNA testing, where you send your DNA in, should always remember that the goal of that company is to make money from your DNA. So, now you got to ask yourself this question, what are they going to do? How are they going to make money from your DNA? So, it, they're going to do the same thing that your church does with your tithing money. They're going to invest it in something. Okay. So, here's one example of a genealogy company that, um, that actually did that. So, 23andMe, which I don't think actually exists anymore, I'm not sure, but it was a, it was another genealogy company that was harvesting, uh, your DNA. And I don't know what else they were doing besides that, but they had kits that you could, you know, take a DNA test, and you could, you could, uh, send that back, and they would tell you about your DNA. That was the, in, in 2018, 23andMe, they actually partnered with GlaxoSmithKline, which is a pharmaceutical company. And, um, we have to remember that 23andMe was also cited numerous times in the Epstein files, that that Epstein was, was getting 23andMe kits frequently. And why was that? Well, I don't think he was getting 23andMe kits so he could do his family's genealogy. He was getting 23andMe kits so he could determine the gen, he, remember he was a eugenicist, so he could determine the genealogy of these girls that he was abusing, because remember what he was trying to do, he was trying to create the perfect race. So, at some point, these DNA companies, these, these supposed genealogy companies are going to monetize our DNA data, and including the church. That's what they did. They sold it. They sold your private information. So, what other way are, what other way are you going to monetize DNA data than by drug and medical research? And our own, our own, uh, institutions like BYU have numerous DNA projects that are doing research in genealogy and medical science, including those that use DNA and family history to identify hereditary disease risks. What are you going to do with that information? So, let's say you get that information and you find out that your child is going to have some kind of problem when he's born. What are you going to do with that information? I mean, there's a variety of different things, but you got to realize, abortion. What is the pro-abortion? That's eugenics, too.
>> You're killing, you're killing a child because it's not wanted, >> or it has undesirable traits.
>> Yeah. So, what, why, why would the church sell our [snorts] DNA information to companies like this when Gordon B. Hinckley said the only purpose was for temple work? So, what do you sell our information for? And what, what kind of projects is BYU doing in DNA research? What is their goal? What's their purpose? So, are we just using temple work to keep everybody distracted so that we can harvest DNA and sell it to people that are going to use it for eugenics? Is that what is happening? Is that what I'm hearing right now?
>> I don't, I think that, >> Well, >> because we know we're not saving anybody through temple work. [laughter]
We now know that saving temple ordinances do not save you. That only Jesus Christ saves you, which that's taught in the Book of Mormon and the Bible. So, well, and we're also taught that the temple is our body. We are the temple. We are supposed to have, that's the true temple, Jesus within us. We are the temple. That goes into a whole lot about is temple work right or not. And that's a, that's a topic for a whole another study.
Well, this was part of our last interview where that the temple is dead works. And this kind of answers the question that we were talking about. Is it dead works? But is it so much more than that? It sounds to me like it's just a big distraction so that we can practice really wicked things, and that is very disheartening to me.
Okay, so we, we've been talking about what they did with our genealogy information. So let's connect some more dots. Okay. So the shots that either we get in childhood or the shots that, over the past few years, we've been talking about that, they are basically forced eugenics because what they're teaching you is they're teaching you that we cannot exist without these substances in our body. We can't, we can't have normal children without some kind of medical prevention intervention. We can't, we can't exist without taking certain drugs. We can't, which the whole medical community from birth to death. You literally have assistance from the medical community from the birth of your child to the, the death of your child. We're not taught anymore that the most natural thing in the world, which is birth, is something that we can do on our own. That God created our body to do that. That that is, divinely instituted in ourselves. Instead, we're taught that you have to go to this institution or you'll die in this most natural thing in the world that that women do. Um, so we see that and so then we go to the shots and the medications. Well, you can't just function on what God has given you. You have to have these extras. No. And again, we don't have the priesthood or the authority to actually heal people without these medical interventions. And, and that's pretty blasphemous because you're trusting in the flesh. You're not trusting in God.
Well, and let's going more into specifically 2020 and what happened in 2020. The church leaders were essentially giving us advice that is right in line with the advice that Bill Gates was giving us. And let's talk about what we know about Bill Gates right now. Okay. Bill Gates, because of his time on Epstein Island, was giving his wife venereal disease and then slipping drugs to her to cure this venereal disease that he got in the first place from Epstein Island. And we're going to take this guy's advice, without her knowing. She didn't know what he was doing. I don't think she knew either. So, yeah. And yeah, and he was considered one of the medical experts that we were following. And so, why are we taking advice from this guy, when the church definitely told us to follow the wise and thoughtful recommendations of medical experts and government leaders, and he was, and these are the government leaders that we're talking about. These are, he was, he was definitely a government leader and, and we know that the church was supporting him because the church supported all, all of his the v-word initiatives, the shot initiatives through Gabby, through UNICEF, they were putting money toward all those things.
Well, and that totally obliterates the argument that the church didn't tell us to get it. So the church may not have specifically said go and get it or you're going to hell. They may not have used those words, but they highly encouraged it and then they put a whole bunch of money towards UNICEF and these very large shot companies. Okay. Yeah. So, yes, they were telling us to get it. Yes, they're in support of these things. Yes, that means they're supporting eugenics. And that's really disturbing to me. So the coercion is teaching people, brainwashing people into believing that you can't survive without them, that you will get sick, that you will die without these experimental interventions, that you will die. That was the whole, uh, that was the whole premise of the, the CV years, the COVID years. That was the whole premise of them. And so, so the church donated, not only donated lots of money for many years, for many, many years. Although so much of this is either censored or redacted off the internet. You can't even find it anymore. But it's true. They were always supporting shot initiatives and, and they were always teaching us that we need to go do it, just like what you just talked about.
So, this is a whole lot to unload and it's a lot to think about and it really delves deep into how deep the corruption goes in our church, in our state, in our world. So, what's the takeaway, Mom? What, what do we do with this information? And how can we as people of, of God? And let me clarify this. There are no chosen people of God based on race, gender, health. That is not what makes you chosen. What makes you chosen is your desire to follow Jesus Christ. You either follow Jesus or you follow the devil. What makes you chosen is your choice to follow Jesus. So what do we do with this information?
Okay. Well, um, teaching children about plurality of wives by brainwashing them with this w, with this education, it's, it's a brainwashing technique. It is brainwashing them with a pride agenda. So, it's all about pride. And we learn in the Book of Mormon so much about how God feels about what's going to happen in the last days with pride. Okay? Okay. And you can see that deeply in the church. Okay. It's a pride agenda because you're teaching our youth. So I'm going to answer your question in terms of what you guys have been talking about, our youth coming up. We are teaching the youth of the church that they are better than everybody else, that they are a superior race, and that their whole, uh, purpose is to keep pumping out superior children. Okay? Which has nothing to do with the gospel. It's an ideology. It's a eugenics ideology that that we have believing blood and that really, you only get believing blood if you join the church. So, and if you leave the church, what, what happens to your believing blood? Then it goes away. It goes away. [laughter] All of a sudden, you don't have that anymore. Okay? And, and what are the fruits of that? Well, the youth are actually believing that. They are actually believing that. So the biggest threat to our youth is not that, is not the podcasters. It's not those that are leaving the church. The biggest threat is that we are teaching these kids that they, that they believe in this pride agenda, that they can go out and do whatever they want to do, live whatever way they want, and they are the believing blood. All they have to do is go to church on Sunday, go on their mission. But the sinning part and the repenting part doesn't really matter because they're already believing blood. And we never ever address in the church the moral decline, which means these are kids that are out. I mean, I used to think that the kids I hung out with were like the purest kids, you know, these were the kids making the same choices I was, um, as far as not fornicating, waiting for marriage, not indulging in pornography. But then when you really get into it and you really get into even just the dating pool that the church is, you find out all these kids are indulged in this and the church doesn't seem to mind because if you can kind of implement moral indiscretion here and there, then eventually, oh, polygamy is going to be cool because now, now we can do these sexual sins, um, within polygamy and, and then it's totally cool.
That's right. And that is so beyond disturbing because that is not what the word teaches. And we see that the sexual deviancy amongst these youth is causing this giant decline in their ability to be responsible, their ability to hold down jobs, their ability to be a healthy wife or husband or mother or father. We're seeing an incline in sexual deviancy hurting the family. And so you're seeing a decline in just healthy, happy, normal families. And, and how, I guess my question to you as a mother, what would be your advice to people to kind of combat this in this really wonky world that everything's backwards? What would you do for your children now that you have hindsight? If you had young kids, what would you be doing instead?
Well, I think the biggest, it's like what I was saying, the biggest threat isn't, isn't that our children aren't going to church. It's that protection comes from Jesus by living the commandments. That's what you have to do. And we're not teaching that. We're teaching that because they have believing blood, they're so much better than everybody else. And they, they don't have to do anything at all. But we're supposed to live some very important principles. We're supposed to live. We're, we're supposed to gain knowledge. Okay. What kind of knowledge are we supposed to gain? We're supposed to gain knowledge of God. We're supposed to gain knowledge of God. Okay. So, we, we've talked about this at length in our family as well. What kind of knowledge did we learn in the educational system? We, we learned, we, we didn't learn truths. Mostly falsehoods. Mostly falsehoods that are putting forth this, this agenda. Exactly. And when you delve into the education system, you find out why, why this is, this is ruining our children. And so we're just going to promote this book, but we'll put a link to it in the description. And we would highly recommend that you guys check out this book, read it, find out what's actually happening to your children in the school systems because it literally affected me. It affected my siblings. It's affected my friends. Even just what my husband went through in the school system as opposed to even what I went through is so much worse. And we're only a seven-year age gap. Okay? So find out what's happening to your kids in the school systems and pull them out of the systems that are teaching them falsehoods and teach them correct principles. Bring back family dinner. Get rid of, get rid of video games in your home. Okay? Bring back talking openly to your kids about things in the sense that it's not offensive to talk about things that even you disagree about. That's how we're going to combat all of these lies that are being taught to our children and to the youth. Gordon B. Hinckley also emphasized that everybody has to go to college. Everybody needs their education. But if you really read that book that that Claire just put up, you'll find out what was really being taught in the colleges. And you will be shocked. You will be shocked at what was being taught in our public schools. Uh, some of it I wasn't shocked at because I had those experiences when I was in school. Some of it you will be shocked about. And so what, bring back knowledge of God? Have conversations about your spiritual, your, your spiritual beliefs, what, what you want your children to know about that. Bring that back into your life. Then you got to teach your kids sacrifice. One of the biggest problems we have in the world right now is that nobody wants to make a sacrifice unless you make money. And we're actually teaching the youth that the most important thing for them is play. It's just play. Totally play. I understand that there is a purpose for play in our lives and you can't just eliminate play because you have to be healthy. But to teach the sole purpose of life is to make, make enough money so that you can play harder and longer. That's not the purpose of life and you're going to have a very, like, soul-sucking life if all you're doing is playing. Yeah. You, you've got to be making sacrifices. The kind of sacrifices God puts everybody, it tells everybody to run their own race. And in your race, the, the, the parable of Adam and Eve, the allegory of Adam and Eve, it's an allegory about all of us. We're put on this earth. We're supposed to run our race. We're supposed to learn from our experiences. And along the way, you're going to make mistakes, okay? You're going to, that's why Jesus was provided for us. You're going to make mistakes. So you, you repent, you make a turn in the road, and you start living a life of sacrifice, a life of consecration to God. And, and so you live the crucified life. You live the life that you're, you know, that, and Joseph Smith said this, you know, you're on the pathway that God wants you to be on, which then involves the virtue element, which is you're dying to your own flesh, which means you're going to be living the virtue element because it's not about you anymore. All the things that are out there, pornography, self-pleasure, fornication, it's all about me, me. It's all about yourself. Okay? [snorts] That's why the marriage bond is completely different because it's not just about yourself. That's what makes the difference between, between sex as God has outlined it for us and sex as the world outlines it for us. And that's what keeps us safe. That's what keeps our, our wives, our children. When you live within those bounds that God has set, it truly keeps your family safe. And so we really should be teaching our kids those, those elements. And virtue is the most important one of all because just from the Epstein files, you can see what our society has degraded into amongst some of the most powerful, uh, men and women, corporations, churches, um, medical institutions, amongst, amongst every aspect of society. One thing I've learned through, throughout my whole experience is that almost everything I was taught in public school, in college, by my church, my doctor, um, the education system, almost everything I was taught was a lie. It wasn't really true. And when you start to really turn to God and really go back to the basics of teaching these things to your children, you will definitely see God working with you. He will start to work with you and, and bring your family back together again because you're living a different form of life. You become a different creature in Christ. And so, yeah, that, those are the things that I would say. And if you, if you aren't seeing how horrible it is at this point, how awful the state of our situation is now at this point, it's time to wake up. Time to wake up. [laughter] Okay? And that is with our youth. Especially with our youth because they are our future. So you have to understand how history played into all of this in the church as well. And that, that's why there are still seeds of that in our society right now. And these are horrible. This leads to horrible, heinous things if we don't talk about it. And that's why we're talking about it today.
Will you just close with that scripture you shared with me earlier in Third Nephi? I think it was chapter 16, verse 10. What does that teach us about everything that we're talking about?
Okay, so this is Third Nephi 16:10. And this is where we're at in our world today. And thus commandeth the father that I should say unto you, at that day when the Gentiles shall sin against my gospel, okay? And we are the Gentiles. We're house of Israel, but we are also considered the Gentiles. In that day when the Gentiles shall sin against my gospel, and shall reject the fullness of my gospel, and shall be lifted up in the pride of their hearts above all nations, and above all the people of the whole earth, and shall be filled with all manner of lyings, and of deceits, and of mischiefs, and all manner of hypocrisy, and murders, and priestcrafts, and whoredoms, and of secret abominations. And if they shall do all th, those things and shall reject the fullness of my gospel, behold, sayeth the father, I will bring the fullness of my gospel from among them. We are in a time when all these things are happening and the, and the biggest thing we've talked about today is those things are happening in our churches. Okay? And it's all about what we've talked about today, is it starts with this pride idea that, that we are better than someone else. And that, what that has disastrous consequences. And you can see that in the scriptures over and over again. It's repeated. You can see that at the end of the Book of Mormon. Okay? So we are, are we, if it hasn't already ended, we are at the end of the fullness of the Gentiles unless they repent. There's still time to repent. Parents, it's time to wake up to what's really going on and then make some changes in, in your life. It's not about following men. It's about following Jesus. I think one of the best parts of leaving the church has been this freedom to interact with Christ followers from every walk of life. You don't do that when you're in the Mormon church. Like, you interact with Mormons. Mormons are your circle. Like, and if you meet someone that isn't a Mormon, it's like, oh well, I can interact with them, but they're like, there's still like a block that you put there. And so it is so beautiful to just start interacting with Christ followers from all walks of life. And I would encourage everybody to do that.
Absolutely. I think we all should be seeking that level of humility where we're not putting ourselves up above anybody else. Um, we're simply, even on this [music] podcast, we're not here to be your hero. We are simply here to spread information and to share with you what the Lord is teaching us. [music] And, um, we hope that you guys will be able to find clarity in that just as the Lord has taught us so much clarity through teaching us these things. So I hope that you'll seek for clarity from him. Thanks guys for joining us on this week's episode of the Clarity Podcast. [music] And thank you Mom for for joining us. Thank you.