Transcription
Chair now recognizes Mr. Cloud from Texas.
Thank you, Chairman. Thank you for holding this hearing. This hearing was designed to be a a hearing looking into the massive expansion of some of the social programs and the fraud that was contained therein. But Reverend Toggard, I was struck by part of your opening statement because you invoked Matthew 25, and that's a scripture we see tossed around a lot uh up here, but often without context. And so I went and got [snorts] my Bible and thought we'd dig into Matthew 25 for a minute.
The scripture you in invoked was uh Matthew 25:35-4. It ends with this. It says, "Then the righteous will answer to him, Lord, when did we see you hungry, feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? And when did we and when did we see you a stranger and invite you in or naked and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and come to you?" And the king will answer to them, "Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did to one of the one of those brothers mine, even the least of them, you did this to me." Uh I I would ask you who's the you in that passage.
Thank you for your question.
You meaning all of us the followers of of Christ?
Followers of Christ. Right. In Matthew 24:3 it says after Jesus was [snorts] sitting on the mountain of olives and the disciples came to him privately and then they asked him that began this whole chapter. Now what Christ didn't say was to lobby your government. He said if you have you give. That's the general biblical principle here. Uh, you know, 2 Corinthians chapter 9 gives us probably the best uh scriptural understanding of what charity is. It says, "Each of you should give what you've decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver." [snorts] Um, would you say that taxes are under compulsion?
Uh tax is are not my area of expertise but I
But are they given under compulsion? Do you pay your taxes
as a US citizen? I pay my taxes.
Yes. Because
what happens if you don't?
We don't have the services that we need to support our
What happens to you personally if you don't pay your taxes?
You get in trouble.
You get in trouble. I would say that's under compulsion. So, if we're talking about what charity is, I'm always amazed in in DC how much of we get to define our personal worth as a politician or statesman or whatever you want to call us by how much of other people's money we give away. Um, and and so there's certainly a place for a social safety net potentially, but the idea that that Matthew 25 is kind of used as a blanket statement. As a matter of fact, the parable that he gives right before that scripture that you go into is the parable of the talents where uh you see someone a business owner go away and he leaves three uh employees in charge and gives them each a bit of investment and uh two of them turn their investment into a profit. The one that turns it not into a profit does nothing with it just sits on it. What does he call him?
You're a pastor, right?
Yes, I am, sir. I I don't have that.
He calls him a wicked and a lazy servant. Uh and so, you know, scripturally speaking, God expects us to do something with what he's given us. Now, uh Romans 13 talks about the purpose of government. You know, scripture is replete with there's different institutions that each have a different thing. The primary job of raising our kids and taking care of our families and the institution of the family. The government has a different one. It says, "For the one in the authority is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid. For the rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. And they are God's servants to bring agent of wrath on the wrongdoer. Uh would you say that someone who commits fraud fraud is doing wrong?
We all are against fraud,
right? Is fraud theft? Would you agree that that's theft?
Yes.
As the eighth commandment says, "Thou shalt not steal." Would you recommend that someone in your church go into debt to give an offering in your church?
No.
Okay. So, uh, we have a massive program of fraud that's being paid for by taxpayers, and it's not really our us paying. It's really our kids and our grandkids that are paying it. Uh, and yet we continue to see this massive expansion all under the uh taken out of context of what charity is being defined as. Uh, you know, it's interesting. I I find it odd that the left continues to bring up Matthew 25 because at the very beginning of that, right before he goes in that uh scripture that we talked with, it says Matthew 25:32, "All the nations will be gathered to him and he will separate the people from one another as sheep and goats." He will put the sheep on his right, his goats on the left, and the king will say to those on his right, "Come in, you are blessed to the father, take your inheritance to the kingdom." And those on his left, he will say, "Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels." You know, so uh I would caution those who begin to use Matthew 25 to do so in the proper context, understanding that we have multiple biblical institutions and they each [snorts] have a purpose.
And context here is Mr. Chairman, I'd like to submit the entirety of Matthew 25 into the record.
Without objection.
Mr. Chairman, I also have a unanimous consent item.
Without object, does anyone object to
Thank you. It's a Huffington.
I didn't recognize you yet, Mr. Does anybody object to Mr. Cloud? Without objection so ordered.