Transcription
But the Lord allows these terrible things. The Lord allowed Bonhaofer to be killed at age 39. Everybody felt exactly as we feel about Charlie. What a tragedy. How could God allow this?
You know, I I said a number of times, uh, and I guess I'm in a position to know, uh, because I wrote a big book. Um, oh, I just just happen to have a copy here. Um, you know, I I'm I'm in a position to make the statement that Charlie Kirk is uh the American Bonhoffer.
Charlie's faith um in no small part thanks to you was so strong um and it was so central to everything. You know, he didn't just care about America. He cared about America because God cares about America. because America could not exist without uh without God, without Christians. He understood all of that.
And um you know, I I said that he he is the American Bonhoffer. And one of the horrible things is in order to get to be the American Bonhoffer, you have to be murdered by uh by dark forces, you know.
But >> but the Lord allows these terrible things. The Lord allowed Bonhaofer to be killed at age 39. Everybody felt exactly as we feel about Charlie. What a tragedy. How could God allow this? Um, I think of Joseph Warren killed at the Battle of Bunker Hill, 34 years old. He was basically the leader of the whole patriot movement in 1775, killed at Bunker Hill. How could God allow it? I just wrote the chapter in my upcoming book on the American Revolution about Nathan Hail. Nathan Hail was one of the most godly, wonderful, charismatic Christian patriots you could ever imagine. Killed by the British brutally, age 21.
Wow.
We have to understand God does allow this stuff. It's horrible. It's horrible. But out of it can come beautiful things. And and I really do think that the the Lord allowed this. It's very tough for us to to deal with how the Lord allows this stuff, but if we really know him and he challenges us to get to know him better through the suffering, through the pain, it sanctifies us as you just said in in in giving us the latter part of Romans 8:28. Um that God is at work. Alon is on the move in America. And at some point I want to talk to Erica about Charlie's legacy and about the the the connection to Bonhaofer because I think that there is something it's painful and it's beautiful. It's like I said at the beginning it's it's it's beautiful and wonderful and heartbreaking just as the crucifixion uh just as the death of >> St. Steven.
Um >> it's mixed. Uh, >> but it it it makes no sense unless God exists, Eric.
Right. Because if God doesn't exist, this wasn't evil. This is just a a creature that was created by natural forces, which has no ultimate meaning, meaning meaning meaning an early end to his life. But if God does exist, he allows evil because he allows free will, which allows love. And remember, his goal just isn't here on earth. His goal is to make people conformed to the image of his son, which takes us into eternity. And let me just say categorically that Charlie was conformed to the image of Jesus better than I am. And he was 30 years younger than me. He he was already conformed. I mean, he wasn't perfect. We all know that. But he was conformed. And I I I I should show you some of the texts he and I had. You go, "How does this kid have this wisdom at 31? How does he know? How is he quoting scripture back to me on what to do with someone who was attacking him?" He He was He sent me, "Blessed are the peacemakers. I'll talk to him." How How is this kid doing this at 31? He was already conformed.
Okay, the bigger tragedy, this is a tragedy, obviously. The bigger tragedy is living 85 years and doing nothing for the Lord or worse yet fighting the Lord the whole way and his mission. There's always a ripple effect. In Charlie's case, it's a tsunami. Eric, there are people coming to Christ all over the world. I got an email from a lady from Sweden. She said, "I'm a I'm been an atheist my whole life. I'm a Christian now because of Charlie Kirk." This is it's coming from all around the world. We're getting emails. Uh, people are rededicating their lives to Christ. They're becoming Christians. Bible sales are up 40% since Charlie. I mean, if if Charlie were here today and we were to say, um, Charlie, in order for 100 people to come to Christ and become disciples, you have to die. He'd go, sign me up. I don't want to leave Eric and the kids, but that's what my life is all about anyway. It's a lot more than 100, Eric. It's a lot more than a hundred. And uh, you're right. the devil is going to come out and try and stop this. You always get more flak when you're over the target. Charlie was over the target.
Okay. Um what what what we're trying to do at Turning Point, and when I say we, I'm not a member of Turning Point. I'm not a I'm not paid. I'm just a friend, but I'm trying to support them as best I can is doing much of the Lord's work. And so, he's going to attack it. Satan doesn't attack ineffective people. Why waste your time? He's going to attack effective people. So good can come from this even when we don't see it, but we're seeing a lot of it from this awful tragedy.
I just don't have any doubt that um that's what this is, that this is part of God's plan. The Lord allows terrible things. Listen, uh the state of Israel came into being uh as a result of the Holocaust. The Holocaust was as evil as it gets. Um, these things are complicated, but if we trust God, and this is to me what is the the bigger picture here, Frank, is that this has forced us to choose. Do we trust God more or less? When something like this happens, there are all kinds of voices that say, you know what, I I don't see how God could allow that. I I'm I'm out. You know, how could God allow people kind of act like they they're morally superior to God. how can he allow, you know, and you think, well, um, you know, it's I always think of Larry King would always have people on after a tragedy. It was usually Franklin Graham. Give Franklin Graham on. Can we get Franklin Graham? How could God allow the tsunami?
And I always thought like, >> you know, it's a great question and a stupid question. Have you heard of the Holocaust?
Have you heard of there have been wicked horrors since the beginning of time? What are you talking about, Larry King? I mean, >> but they're they're not horrors unless God exists. They're just something you don't like. They're only preferences or dislikes. There are no rights unless God exists. There's nothing good or evil unless God exists. Because without the standard of his nature, it's just one person's opinion against another. It's just Hitler's opinion against Bonhaofer's opinion. If there is no standard beyond both of them. So the very question asking the question presupposes a standard and that standard objective standard can only exist if God exists. So Charlie is in glory. His struggle with this fallen world is over. But our struggle continues and he wants us to Jesus wants us to continue the struggle and Charlie does too. So we have to continue. We have to press on.
Well, listen, it's um uh it is and I know you've probably experienced this far more than I, but uh every now and again the the nightmare it's like you wake up and you think Charlie's gone. Like how can that be? That that can't be. It really can't be. That's why you said no, no, no, no, no. Everything in us >> says no.
But the Lord says it's okay, my son. I love you. I love Charlie. It's okay.
Um, >> this is not the end.
And we can trust God, >> but it's tough. We have to be honest that it's tough. But, >> but do we believe what the word of God says? Do we believe Romans 8:28? And folks, you're listening, you got to choose. Are you going to trust God? Will you trust God? That is uh his will for you is that you would trust him, that you would submit your life to him. And I know there are people listening or watching right now, they have not done that. They have said, "Yeah, but yeah, but I I I know I guess maybe uh sex outside of marriage is not God's plan, but I don't know. God's a God of grace." What you have to choose. If you want God to bless your life, you have to submit to him. You have to submit to him. And if you do not, you're on your own. And you don't want to be on your own. You don't want to be on your own because the forces of hell desire you. That the forces of hell want to destroy you. And your only hope, your only hope is to submit to the will of God in every part of your life. And when you do that, you're standing firmly on the rock that is Christ Jesus. And only then can you see what God has for you. Only then what happened with Charlie is is it's one of these moments where I really believe all kinds of people that were on the fence. They were sort of something is happening where they're saying, you know what, okay, okay, I'm going to submit my whole life to Jesus. I know that if I don't, I'm I'm a lunatic. I'm crazy. I'm gonna do this.
So that is happening, Frank. You know, I just um >> I'll give you the last word, but uh this is, you know, it's an infinite conversation.
Yeah, I can go on. Let's pray for everybody involved, including Candace Owens. Um I I you know, I don't she might have even been having a mental breakdown for all I know, because some of the things she's been saying are just mutually contradictory, Eric. I mean, like for example, unless all of these parties are involved, which is impossible, most of what she's saying is false. Like for example, she said that it's Israel, it's Netanyahu, it's Trump, it's TPUSA, it's it's Egypt, it's Mikey McCoy, it's it's Rob McCoy, it's France. I I thought France all I thought all France did was surrender, but apparently they're involved in this now. I mean, she's got everybody but the most plausible uh uh culprit, Tyler Robinson, as the killer. They can't all be true. which means most of what she's saying is false. So, I don't know if she has she's thought this through. I I I just, you know, you're you're putting forth mutually contradictory possibilities. And again, you can't put forth possibilities that implicate people unless there's real evidence that they are guilty. And you don't have it. You don't have it. You have possibilities. you have contrived um circumstances that could be true in a murder situation, but you don't have any corroborating evidence for that. And and and so it's very reckless when people are getting death threats. Very reckless. I mean, as I said on my own show, I said, if I were to say, you know, I think Candace Owens did this. I think Candace Owens decided to have Charlie killed because she was upset that she was no longer invited to the big TPUSA events and she thought if she could get rid of Charlie, maybe they'd ask her back in the fold and she could be the president. And she's coming up with all these different crazy theories to take attention off of her. And I think she was also jealous of Erica. I think she really loved Charlie and Charlie didn't pick her. Now, is that possible? It's possible. But I'd be completely reckless to say I'm truly proposing that because I have no evidence of any of that. And I I don't want to put Candace in danger. I don't want people to go Candace is the one that did this and then suddenly she has people coming after her. No, that would be completely wrong. But it seems to me that's what she's doing to other people knowingly or unknowingly. Frank, um, you know, I never do this on the program, but, uh, would you just pray, uh, pray for Candace and and just close us out with a prayer because I think this stuff is so tough.
We need to appeal explicitly to the Lord.
Sure. Father, we thank you for uh, Candace Owens. She is a a brilliant woman and um we think she's going in the wrong direction. Um we pray uh if that is indeed the case, which it seems to be, that you would speak to her in some way through your word or through your Holy Spirit and u help her to see the truth. I pray you'd help the prosecution find the real killer. We think we know who that is, but we know that the prosecution is looking into every possible theory to make sure they have the right killer. And we pray for calm. We pray for TPUSA, from Erica, to Andrew, to Mikey, to Justin, to David, to all to Blake, to all the people, to Brian, to all the people that were close to Charlie and Eric as well. And uh we pray for peace and your uh your will be done that more people would come to know you not just as a believer but as a disciple. So help TPUSA to do that to also help the country to do what is right. Um we thank you for Eric and his platform. Please help us to find the truth and to be liberated by the truth, to be set free by the truth. In Christ's name we pray. Amen.
Amen. My friend, thank you. Uh, where can people best find you? I hope people uh, listening right now will look you up, Frank Turk. Tur k. What's the best place for people to find you?
Crossexamined.org and the I don't have enough faith to be an atheist podcast. We do two podcasts a week.
crossexamined.org.
Yep. cross-examined with a d.org. And or you can just look for the I don't have enough faith to be I don't have enough faith to be an atheist podcast. And of course, our YouTube channel, Crossexamined, Instagram page, whole deal.
Yeah.
All right, my friend, my brother. Love you. Thanks for coming on today.
Same here, brother. Keep doing what you're doing.