Transcription
We got Brian Gundy back on the show. That's how you uh kick off a new year. If you don't know who I'm talking about, you should. And I genuinely mean that. Stick around. Uh, this is his second time on the show, but the very first time was one of my favorite episodes ever. Uh, I'll just tell you, we ended up talking about racing pigeons with uh, you know, mafios at some point way back in the distant past. It's not my experience. That was Brian. So, uh, he does a little bit with snakes, too. Let's just say. Stick around. Uh, thanks for being here. We got a great show. Let's get to it. Uh, I got to hit the video here. Here we go.
Hey, what's going on everybody? Happy New Year to you. I hope that your uh festivities and holiday season were a wild success and uh maybe you're getting back to normal life or or actually, you've just started. I don't know about you. Like Monday felt like a Monday after holidays, and then today, here in Minnesota, we were covered in ice, and they don't cancel school for much, but they canceled school for ice today. So, um, that's a terrible joke and pun, too. Let's not go down that road. I don't need the headache of that. Um, anyway, school was canceled today was my point. And that threw off, uh, that threw off some routines, but routine you can count on. It's Tuesday night. We got a show for you. Uh, Brian Gundy from Snakes for the Memories. Uh, no, for goodness snakes, not Snakes for the Memories, a different pun. For goodness snakes, um, excuse me, is here. And uh, we got a lot to get to. Brian's a legend in the industry. One of the kindest people I've ever met in the industry. And um, well-established, uh, long before us, uh, pretenders all wanted to have YouTube channels and be influencers. Brian was uh amassing 15,000 followers on YouTube. Uh, there you go. Think that one over for a little bit. So, uh, anyway, Brian will be on in just a moment.
Couple um quick announcements for you. One that I'm just so happy to um announce and share with you, other than their goofy name. Uh, Jeremy Bod, Steve Casino, Dale Richards, uh, Miguel from Perfectly Engineered Reptiles, and um, uh, Justin from Morph Jungle are going to start a monthly, once a month, I think it's once a month, they might have changed it, doesn't matter how often they do it, a regular, uh, get-together hangout with the five of them. And uh, they start this Friday night at 7:00 p.m. Eastern. They have their own YouTube channel. It's not on uh any of their individual brands. It's on a brand new YouTube channel called, let me get this right, Five Guys and Their Balls. That's what they've uh, they've gone with for the name on here. Uh, the number five guys and their balls this Friday night, 7:00 p.m. Um, all joking aside about their name, that group of guys, particularly Dale, uh, Jeremy Ba, and Steve Casino, I wouldn't be, I wouldn't be here. I wouldn't be in this industry. I wouldn't know what I was doing um getting started vending, any of that, man. I own snakes from those guys. Like, really, really uh important mentors and friends to me. And Miguel and Justin have been awesome as well. We became friends along the way. Um, all of those guys are just fantastic guys from the Florida circuit that I've known since sometime in mid-2021 when I moved to Florida. And they all, you know, welcomed me with open arms. So I couldn't be more happy and proud to uh encourage you to go check check them out. Um, you'll have a good time. You might learn something if they could stay focused, which I say lovingly because they have such a good time. But those are um excellent guys and uh, kind of hold a nostalgic place in my heart. So um, go check them out.
Okay. Um, myself, I've been on a little bit of a hiatus from uh vending just because of how the schedule went, but uh, January 25th, I'll be trying. It actually, I'm slacking. It actually sold out. I think I'll figure out a way into the De Moines show in uh, De Moine, Iowa, January 25th. Then January 31st, I'll be over in Lacrosse, Wisconsin. And then February 8th, I'm going to try a new market. There's been some odd scheduling um challenges here in the Minnesota immediate area and some of the other shows. But uh, I'm going to try a new market which is Madison, Wisconsin, all the way over uh, towards the Great Lake, toward, I don't know who cares about Midwest geography. I'm saying it like anybody follows it. Anyway, Madison, Wisconsin, if you're around, uh, come check that show out. Uh, so De Moine, uh, Lacrosse, Wisconsin, Madison, Wisconsin. Uh, three weeks in a row coming up, uh, starting uh, January 25th. So I'm looking forward to getting back to that.
Uh, before I forget, tonight's brought to you ad-free by Palm Street. You will never have to watch a commercial on proper live, proper royals live programming, uh, because of the support from Palm Street. And while I'm talking about it, if you needed to ship an animal tomorrow because the weather was nice and you wanted a reliable shipping partner, I would check out Redline Shipping, is what I would do. Uh, Redline Shipping is also integrated with Palm Street. So, if you buy or sell on Palm Street, you right into the platform right there. Boom. You can get your labels, get them purchased, get them printed, get your animal shipped tomorrow, whenever you want to get it shipped. So, um, I think that that's uh, I think that's what I got going on for announcements.
Uh, please check out um my YouTube. I've been kind of making a commitment to get back to some content um creation, which is kind of the backbone of what got me here and what built this whole community to begin with. So I want to get back to that. And then also want to tell you I have started, and the first episode is there in the Proper Royals Patreon. It's seven bucks a month to get access to the full library and to the group chat where there's like-minded, kind of business-focused individuals. We have fun in there too, but it's really uh, snake industry, uh, business pairing, breeding, all of that driven. Seven bucks a month. What a great investment just to learn from other people. Forget whether I have something to tell you or not. You join a group with 20, 30 people that are, um, like I say, similar-minded and are going to know stuff that you're not going to know and, and vice versa. Uh, but the other thing with it, I got a lot of questions about what I use AI for and how I implement AI, both in Proper Royals, the business, but in some of my other business, uh, ventures as well, ad ventures, ventures, a little bit of both. Um, and so I'm going to have a uh, series, uh, this whole year, this 2026 will be the year of how I use AI. So, um, the first episode of that is up, but, uh, we'd love to have you join us in the Proper Royals Patreon. There's a second tier, which is $35. And that money just converts to store credit. All of it. I, I pay the, uh, the Patreon fees. $35. If you happen to like a project I'm working, you think you'll buy an animal in the future, you're going to get first dibs on it, and basically, you'll already have a down payment or a full payment in the future. I've had some people stick around and uh, take some serious snakes off my hands after a long time. So, uh, we'd love to have you and uh, it's a fun place to be and it's a great place to learn and push yourself, um, chase, chase goals and dreams and hold yourself accountable. So, thanks.
Brian Gundy. Um, I first heard about Brian from another Brian named Brian Kusco. And, you know, it's kind of weird because you start hearing when somebody's been around for so long, you start hearing so much and this big, like, almost imposing figure comes in your mind and you're like, I don't, maybe I shouldn't ask, maybe maybe he doesn't want to hang out, maybe don't want to come, whatever. So, it wasn't until uh, the end of 2024 that um, I ever even spoke to Brian about coming on the show. And he was the easiest guy to hang out with. And then, like, here's a great example. If you look on his YouTube channel, like I said earlier, he's got 15,000 subscribers. If you look on his YouTube bio, it just says, "Hi, I'm Brian. Here's my cell phone number. Call me anytime." Literally, it's there. Like, that's how accessible. And you guys know I'm a big believer in uh, being transparent and having a community and all of that. Like, I can't think of a better example of a of a person who's done that. So, that's uh, that's Brian. There's nothing more awkward than me talking about somebody that's in the green room listening and waiting to participate in the conversation. So, uh, help me welcome back to the Proper Royal stage, uh, Mr. Brian Gundy.
>> Brian, how you doing tonight?
>> All right, my friend. How are you?
>> I'm very good. I'm better now that you're on and, uh, we get to hang out and have a little bit of fun, you know.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. Thanks for being here. How, uh, first off, how are your holidays? Everything good?
>> Everything was great. Yeah. My son was visiting with his wife and, you know, they they have a couple of dogs, so we took them up in the hills and let them run around and so, yeah, that was good and nice. I have a, a little announcement. My daughter just had her third child, uh, on the 5th.
>> Ah, congratulations. Yesterday.
>> Yeah, exactly.
>> Okay. All right. Everybody healthy? Mom and baby doing okay?
>> They're doing fantastic. Yeah.
>> Excellent. Excellent. Congratulations. That's fantastic.
>> Um,
>> Do you have a baby's name yet or or maybe you don't want to?
>> Yeah. Um, you know, I live in the San Francisco Bay area and there's a place along the coast called Santa Cruz.
>> Yeah.
>> And it's very well known for the pier and the and the, you know, the boardwalk and all that. So, they actually named their son Cruz.
>> Okay.
>> And his middle name is Ocean.
>> Wow. Okay.
>> And, uh, they're moving from, they live in Austin, Texas right now. And in August, they're actually moving to Sarasota, Florida.
>> Okay. All right.
>> Because they miss the ocean so much that they're literally just picking up everything and moving to another part of the country, but there's an ocean there. And
>> Yeah, they just, Sarasota's lovely, but it's no ocean compared to Santa Cruz. I'll tell you that. It's a
>> You know, my my son-in-law works from home. He's, you know, he can go anywhere. Y
>> And uh, he's into high-tech stuff and he builds drones. He does a lot of things with drones for the government and all sorts of high-tech companies. And so he, he goes, he travels all over the world and so he can, he can work from home. And so that's where they've chosen. They love the weather and they're, you know, they're sun worshippers and and they want their kids to be raised along in the in the water and, you know, dealing, you know, having water sports and swimming and all that kind of stuff. So, yeah.
>> Yeah, I'm all excited for him.
>> Very nice. And, uh, all joking about Sarasota aside, it's a lovely place. Actually, it's blown up since um, I had been in in Florida. But, uh, I used to, I used to, we were talking about in the green room playing music. I used to tour and play uh from, uh, there's a town just south of Sarasota called Punta Gorda that's right, right on the uh, the Gulf there and um, yeah, there's a pub that sits right on the water and I used to, I used to play it called the Celtic Ray, actually, but um
>> I digress. So, well, congratulations on on that.
>> Yeah, thanks.
>> That's always, it's always great and and again, blessings to uh, mom and baby. I'm glad everybody's healthy. So
>> Yeah, everything, everybody is great. Yeah.
>> Good, good. Uh, how, so you were here on the show? I can't believe it's been this long, but October 2024. It doesn't feel like it was, right? Yeah.
>> Um, so, uh, how was 2025? Did you get any, uh, any milestones, benchmarks, aha moments? You didn't quit. You're still here, so that's good.
>> Yeah. Yeah. I, you know, my focus is really on the Pied Clown project and I'm just doing everything I can to bring as many gene traits into that project as I can. And so, yeah, I was able to just, uh, kind of continuously tweak in and, you know, it's, it's always about, you know, selective breeding with me. Quality is the number one issue. And so, yeah, I've just been focusing on that project and, you know, I'm a, I'm a boutique, I guess what they call a boutique breeder.
>> You know, I probably in my heyday probably produced 35 clutches in a particular season.
>> And uh, but now I'm, you know, probably in the 8 to 12 clutches per year. And um, and but my, one of my focuses from the business side of things, from the financial side of things, is doing the educational programs.
>> Yeah. I wanted to ask, how did that, uh, keep up steam in 2025 and you kept going on it?
>> Yeah, I just, I did a kind of a, I just did a thing on with my calendar the other day and counted up my programs and how much money I made and and all this kind of stuff. And I did 249 programs last year.
>> Holy cow. I mean, that's that's literally five days a week, Brian.
>> Yeah. Sometimes four and five programs a day. And I'm booking programs right now for June and July. And it's gonna, you know, every year that I do this, it's just better and better. I do more programs every year. And uh, you know, I'm, I, it's, I'll be in a restaurant and people will come up to me and tell me, you know, I did their son's birthday party 20 years ago.
>> Oh, whoa. Yeah.
>> I, yeah, it's just great. I'm loving it. I uh, I can't wait till I do my next program. I have a couple of weeks off and then I'm, I'm going strong.
>> Great. How many um, and I, you know, I think we talked some on the last episode, so forgive me for for forgetting some of the de details. How many animals do you take with you at a tip, a typical one of these uh programs or sessions that you run?
>> Yeah, I only bring seven animals.
>> Yeah. And sometimes I do, you know, assemblies at schools for 650 people.
>> Yeah.
>> Uh, a few years ago, I did Google's Christmas party.
>> Oh, really?
>> For seven, for 750 people at the Fairmont Hotel in San Francisco. And they just had a blast. And you were talking about my YouTube channel. Yeah.
>> And uh, you know, I have 750 videos on YouTube. One of those videos was of the Google Christmas party at the Fairmont Hotel and it was just, uh, it was a blast. It was, I think it was three hours of just nonstop having fun, you know. Uh, and, you know, it's funny. I do a lot of children's programs, you know, elementary schools and birthday parties and stuff, but it's really the adult programs that I do where it's so much fun to see, you know, just, you know, people just not knowing what, how to deal with these animals. And, you know, I love, I love to watch, especially adults go from, uh, you know, being totally scared of these animals to, you know, uh, at the end of the programs, just being just the opposite, you know.
>> Yeah. I was going to say, not, not to make a religious analogy, but like, I bet with the adults, it's, it's probably a more powerful experience when you get like a conversion. Like somebody who's like,
>> "No way." And then by the end of it, they're holding. Is that a retic or a burm that you have? That's the albino.
>> It's a burm. Oh, wow. It is a burm. Okay.
>> Yeah, it is a burm. It's actually an albino pied burm. Beautiful animal.
>> That is a beautiful animal. Yeah. I can, I can like, because like
>> It's like a lot of things. Like kids don't know. They don't know to be scared. They don't know to be freaked out. Kids are, kids are fearless, you know, or most of them. But
>> That's amazing.
>> Yeah. You know, it's the adults that in reality, in my opinion, have been brainwashed,
>> Right.
>> To think that these animals are dangerous and aggressive. And I just, I think they're just the opposite. You know, over about 50 to 70,000 people now have handled my animals because at the end of my program, I don't just pack up the animals, I let them go. And everybody that wants to is running around with snakes wrapped around their shoulders and and they're just having a blast. And, you know, I imagine they just can't believe that they're actually holding on to a 10, 10-ft Burmese or a or a, you know, a a clown pied uh ball python or whatever, you know. And I bring a couple of lizards. I bring a two, a blue-tongue skink and a black and white tegu. So, those kind of kick up the excitement a little bit, too.
>> That's cool. Do you, uh, I guess I'm full of religious analogies. Do you ever get any, uh, any like, uh, baptisms, shall we say, like a burm when it's got to go, it's got to go, you know, like I could tell you stories, Adam.
>> That's what we're here.
>> Would not be something I want to share, but yeah, I've had, you know, when they've got to go. I mean, it's not uncommon, especially for the lizards, you know, as they're as people are holding on to them, for those lizards to just let it loose.
>> They get warm and comfy, relaxed. Yeah.
>> And I always make a positive experience out of, you know, some kid will get pooped on and his pants are all dirty and everything. And I'll say to him, you know, just think of it. You're like the only person, only person at your school that's ever been, you know, pooped on by by a 10-foot Burmese python or whatever it is, you know.
>> Yeah.
>> And uh, so I always try to turn it into, you know, a positive experience. If you can do it, I at least I try, you know.
>> You have to try. I mean, in and even vending, it's the same kind, you know.
>> Of course.
>> It's going to happen. And you got to, you got to figure some way to to turn it around and, you know, make it, make it posit, a positive moment, you know.
>> Yeah. I always bring a roll, a brand new roll of paper towels. Yeah. That's the reason I bring them in, you know. And if I, if I'm doing a program and for some reason I have forgotten to bring to bring a p, a roll of paper towels, I, nobody knows it, but I go into this, you know, emotional panic and, oh no,
>> What if we do have an accident?
>> Yeah. What, what, what's going to happen here? Well, yeah. But so, yeah, it's, it's one of the most important things that I bring is a roll of paper towels.
>> Yeah, I, I can imagine, especially with the big snake. Oof. I've vended next to a retic guy before and it's like, oh my goodness, this is, this is an experience here.
>> And I always bring a, a spray bottle of CareFresh.
>> Yeah.
>> Which is a laundry thing, you know, and it makes everything smell good. So, you know, I'll wipe down the table and then I'll spray CareFresh um all over the table just to take that odor away and now can, you know, go back to enjoying ourselves, you know.
>> Yeah, that's a good idea to have something like that. Carefresh or Breeze or something. Yeah. I always have a paper towel.
>> It's for Breeze. I'm sorry. It's not. It's
>> Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah.
>> Because even like, even vending at a snake show, I mean, it's bound to happen, but it's still nice to just
>> Oh, yeah.
>> Smell, you know.
>> It's the paper towels and the freze, those are the two most important things besides the animals, you know, right?
>> But it's, you know, because, you know, when you do, I, I la, I was counting my the number of programs I did last year and I did 249 programs. So when you're doing that quantity of programs, you know, it's not, you know, it's going to happen.
>> It is going to happen. Yeah. And it's, it's
>> And I, I am prepared.
>> Well, and even as disappointed as I can imagine some people might be, like if you're dealing with animals, that that's it's, you could hold a dog and that's going to happen. You know, it's, you, you know, that that comes with the territory. That's
>> And, you know, I usually, I try to turn it into a positive experience. You know, and, you know, the kids will start to ew, whatever, you know, and I'll just remind them that, you know, all animals go to the bathroom and and the main thing is that we have the tools to clean it up, you know.
>> That's true. Yeah.
>> But so I, you know, I kind of turn it into a, you know, even, even an educational experience, you know.
>> How, uh, how long do you want to keep that going? I mean, that is 249. I don't think I would play 249 gigs a year, even as much as I love playing music. I mean, that is, that's a lot. That's that that's a that's a pedal down.
>> Yeah. And uh, it's to me, it is like a gig, you know, because I'm, yeah, I'm getting in front of an audience. I'm
>> That's right.
>> I'm, I'm there to to educate them and entertain them and um, and yeah, I, you know, as long as I can physically do it, I'm, I'm going to continue. You know, I'm, I'm 73 now. Um, I'll, you know, I'll just continue. My guess is five to six, seven more years.
>> Sure.
>> You know.
>> Yeah, that's, um, you know, it'd be, it's always like, you, we always hear these like catchphrases, you know, like, do what you love and you'll never have to work again, you know, that that kind of thing. But like, I, I mean, I'm not even, I don't want to get too specific or personal on the the, but I mean, 249 events at X feet, that's a pretty good amount of income too. I mean, that's great. Why not do it, right?
>> I've never had, I've never made so much money in my life.
>> Good for you.
>> I'm swimming in it. I just, I
>> You're stuck with mandatory distributions. You still got money coming in. It's great, right?
>> My pocket, I always have cash on me and, you know, I'm, I'm charging $500 a program now. That's minimum. So that's $500 an hour.
>> Yeah. Yeah. You are swimming. That is, uh, I mean, that's not just flirting with six figures. That's well into, you know, one and a quarter, one and a half. Yeah.
>> Good for you.
>> Yeah. It's just, and I have a blast. It's just the funnest experience I can ever, uh, imagine for me because, you know, I get to watch everybody's expressions, not only the children, but, you know, if I do libraries, it's the mom and dad are there, grandma and grandpa are there. I do convalescent homes. I do, um, you know, preschools.
>> So, it's, it's the whole gamut.
>> And, and it's interesting because it's, it's how I sell out my my snakes almost every year.
>> I was just about to say that. All metriculates down into. I mean, I was just joking to myself, you're the only breeder doing 8 to 12 clutches, making six figures and selling everything out, right? There's the answer right there, guys.
>> Yeah. When you, when you, when you think about someone living their dream, I am living my dream. This is
>> Congratulations. I, I couldn't be happier. I couldn't have more fun. I can't wait to do the next program. I get to meet people and laugh with them and it's just there, every aspect of what I do is just fun.
>> Good for you. I mean, that that's something we we can all dream for and I mean, I mean, I'm sure the details would be different, but I'm sure all of us would have just said, yeah, I want to make a good living and have fun and, you know, do it into my 70s because I'm happy with it. Like, it's beautiful. Congratulations. I'm really happy for that. That is cool.
>> Um, I don't think we talked about this last time, but I'm actually intrigued by. Can you talk about your early experience on YouTube? You started your channel in 2009, I think the research I did said that that's going back a ways there. What was, what was it like and what was the inspiration at the time? What made you go, I, I need to focus on this or did you focus on it? Did you just stumble into it? How did I, how did I
>> No, I, you know, I just thought, you know, um, I was, uh, I had a business. I was selling snakes and um, I just thought, you know, how, what a better way to um, sell snakes and and it really, really went from selling to educating.
>> Because you'll notice a lot of my videos are teaching people how to, how to pop, how to probe, how to, you know, husbandry. And, you know, I remember years and years ago, I, I was breeding, I, I used to breed boas. I, um, would probably produce about eight or 10 litters a year or so. And um, back in the day when I first got started, I was produ, I was breeding and selling colubrids. And um, I was, I was producing about 350 colubrids a year. And you, you name it, I was producing it from,
>> You know, mandarin rat snakes to corns to kings and 50/50s and Durangos and, you know, Arizona mountain kings and and uh, I just started um, educating, you know, creating videos that would rather than keep secrets, I would actually tell everybody on YouTube what I did because, uh, years ago, I had a situation that happened where I, uh, called a breeder to find out if they would help me with some questions that I had. And at that time, it was about boas and the person that I talked to said, "Well, I just noticed that you have not purchased animals from us in the past." And I said, "You're right. I haven't." And and they said, "Well, we have a policy, excuse me, where um, we don't share information with anyone that hasn't purchased animals from us." And I thought, "Okay, well, thank you very much. I appreciate your time." I got off the phone and I made it, you know, sort of a mental note to myself that never will I ever say that to anybody because it just, it hurt my feelings.
>> It wasn't, it wasn't who I am, you know? I'm just the opposite. I have all of my secrets are on my YouTube videos. And and so I went, I just started going kind of crazy and uh, and then, you know, I started sharing my herp, herping experiences. You know, if I, I'd go out in the field and catch some some wild snakes and and uh, you know, then, uh, like I said, sharing my husbandry techniques and helping people that had questions to sort of be proactive in my information to them so that they could refer back to my videos and get, uh, you know, some information about, you know, what to do about mites and how to probe and how to pop. And, you know, so it just kind of um, evolved into um, you know, a part of my business.
>> You know, I, I think it's a great story because I think we can all think of one time in our lives, maybe not even snake related, but where somebody made us feel that big and it just stuck with us and we said, you know what?
>> Either I'm not going to do that or I'm purposefully going to do something that's not, you know, I mean, it might have just been a passive response for some of us, but I could think of times in my life where I just remember going, I will never be like you, pal. I don't know how I'll be, but I will never be like you. And I, yeah, like you say, you hang up the phone or you, you walk away or whatever you do. But what a dumb thing for a business, too. I get it if you know, say you're busy or say, "Hey, come by the shop sometime or do something."
>> No, I agree. So, I just thought, you know, I'm not going to be that person. I'm going to be the person that I am and I'm going to share my experiences and I'm going to share my, uh, expertise, if you will, you know, and and I'm going to take that guy that's scared to death about what to do with any kind of snake that he's working with. And because I've worked with boas and colubras and ball pythons and so I have experiences in a lot of different areas of husbandry and breeding. And so I just have spent my, my focus has been and always will be, what can I do to help?
>> You know?
>> A quick shout out to uh, Chris Eaton. Speaking of people that have shared a whole lot and supported me a whole lot, uh, and Chris is, Chris is one of those people to me. Uh, yeah, check out the, uh, Storyteller series, uh, episode, guys, over at the Fat Man Nation. So, Chris, thanks. You, you could, you're welcome to keep throwing money in the jar, but you don't have to throw money in the jar. Just a comment, man. I appreciate you, man. Thanks very much for keeping the lights on.
>> He's a great guy. Good friend.
>> Yeah. Um, so, uh, was there, uh, I'm trying to think because I don't think I'm trying to think what what existed in those days. So, '09, Facebook would have just been getting going. Uh, YouTube would have been or Google would have been about 10 years old at that time, but YouTube would have only been six or seven year stupid kids, so I can't even say six, seven anymore. Six or seven years old, uh, at that time. Um, what made that your platform of choice or was there another platform that went defunct that you tried or that just just happened to work?
>> I, you know, I hadn't been involved in in social media at all, you know, before then.
>> And I just, I'm not a technical guy. I'm very, you know, computer-challenged in a lot of ways. And I found it pretty easy for me to uh, go ahead and do a video on my camera, take the memory card and slip it into whatever and and uh, and then just download or upload, whatever the term is.
>> Sure.
>> Videos. And uh, I just started pumping them out.
>> Yeah. You know,
>> I, I, I don't, I'm not saying this about you. For myself, I, I enjoyed it almost even more when I didn't know anything. Like when I didn't know about like keywords and search engine optimization and the supposed algorithms and all of that. Like I still go back to just like, I just want intriguing content and the rest, the chips will fall where they're at, you know? Like
>> That's all French to me and it's all, I, and I have no idea what you're talking about. Well, like I say, I think it's more fun. It was more fun when I, when I didn't, and I still don't really know what I'm talking about.
>> So, um, you talked, uh, about, well, we talked a lot about clown pods, uh, clown pods last time that you were on, but um, I saw a little bit like a bit of a twinkle in your eye, like you got a new kind of fire lit or something, it feels like this year. What, um, what have you, what excites you about Clown Pides? And then, um, what are you, what are you doing with it? What, what tell us about 2025 with the compound?
>> Sure. Well, what got, what got me started in the Pi Clown project was I don't know, 20 years ago or so. I was at a show where Dan and Colette Sutherland had just produced the first clown pi.
>> 20 years ago, man.
>> Yeah. Must have been. And I, you know, mathematically figured it out, but that'd be my guess, you know.
>> Sure. And um, I thought, you know, and I couldn't believe what I was looking at, you know. You know, when I was doing, I was breeding and selling colubrids. I did that for about 10 or 12 years and was actually in the process of selling out that collection. Uh, and my goal was to get out of, I was getting burned out on breeding and selling snakes. And as I was selling out that collection, I saw a photograph. This was my first photograph that I saw of a pie ball python.
>> Yeah.
>> And this is, this is close to 30 years ago probably.
>> And uh, I thought, are you kidding, kidding?
>> A snake looks like that. And uh, I thought, you know what? And I had made some decent money selling out my collection. So I just thought, you know what? I've got the cages. I've got, I know how to breed snakes. So, I just thought, you know, I'm going to take this money that I've made from selling up my colubrid collection and then just reinvesting into ball pythons. And that's how I just got started with that. And I, you know, at the time I wasn't, you know, dealing with a lot of money, but so, you know, I would buy hat pides,
>> Right. Right.
>> A couple males and three females. And and, you know, I, I started. You know, a lot of people at the D, at the time would just go out and buy a pi, but I didn't have that kind of money. So, I just
>> Right.
>> I, you know, took baby steps. I, you know, I produce possible hats and then breed those to hold them back and breed those together and produce a and produce a pi and then took the pi to, you know, some possible heads and then, you know, through process of elimination was able to find some heads in my collection and then just went from there. But going back to the original story, I, uh, I had a pi at home. I had an adult pi. I had an adult, um, female, uh, clown. So I just went home from this show. This again, this was 20 years ago. And um, I
>> You started that long ago on your own clown pides.
>> Oh yeah. I, I've never, I've never purchased a clown pi. All of my clown pides, all of my whole project
>> Originated here at my facility.
>> Yeah. Wow. And so, yeah, I started producing double heads. I'd hold back the double heads and then breed them together and and then, you know, had some amazing odds. Um, my first,
>> Let's see, my first, uh, double head to double head. I got a, and these were real young females. I got three eggs out of the first clutch. Uh, one egg went bad during incubation. So I ended up with two, two eggs. Uh, those eggs hatched. One of the eggs was a male, uh, pie clown. The other, a fem, the other egg was a female pie clown.
>> See, what is it? The, the one in 16, I think it is on both of them.
>> And I had two, two eggs and both of them came out pie clowns. And that just kind of, in, in my mind, I thought, all right, this is, this is, I couldn't believe it, you know.
>> You were, yeah, you were like, this is easy. This is everybody should be doing this.
>> Everybody must be able to do this, you know. And so, yeah, I just started the project from there. And, uh, you know, 20 years later, it's still the focus of my, um, of my projects. It's, it's everything that I do is focused on the pie clown. Now, don't, you know, don't think that I'm not adding lots of genes in there, you know, some, some, uh, co-dominant genes, but um, yeah, so right now I'm working on, um, you know, pi clowns that have, you know, six and seven gene traits in them.
>> Yeah.
>> You know, so that's really the where I'm having a, a fun time. I'm not selling too many of those animals. I don't really put too many of them up for sale. I'm, I've always been my first customer. And, you know, I like selling snakes, but I also love holding them back.
>> Yeah.
>> I get that. And that's that's a hard part of the business. Do you
>> I don't want to, I'm not, I don't want to put anybody on any
>> Go for it, Adam.
>> I don't want to put anybody on any pedestal or whatever, but I lately I've been hearing, I don't know. Oh, it's just maybe the, maybe the algorithms figured me out, but I've heard an interview with, uh, David Bowie, with, uh, Rick Rubin, and I forget some other, uh, musician type. And the theme was, I've never worried about the audience. And they're not saying it from a performative standpoint. They're saying it from a, a creative standpoint. They've basically said,
>> "I've never tried to chase a hit." And uh, the Bowie one was even saying he, you know, did, Bowie was even saying, "I never wanted to feel comfortable. If I was in a comfortable pop situation that was predictable, I got out of it. I wanted to be being creative, doing what I wanted to do, and slightly uncomfortable." And um, why I say all that is, I get the sense you've never worried about, hey, what's going to be hot when I breed these? Is how, how talk a little bit about that whole thing. You kind of get where I'm going here.
>> Sure. I do. Sure. Yeah. Well, you know, I mean, I wish years ago when the Desert Ghost Project started up that I had, uh, invested in that because, you know, nothing, how could anything be better looking than a, you know, a desert ghost pie clown.
>> Yeah, there's a strong argument for that. Yeah.
>> And so, those are things that I've kind of look back on and and kind of second-guessed myself. But, you know, I am working with, you know, a lot of Orange Dream stuff, a lot of fire. Uh, I even work with Pastel. I, I work with Mark Bell's Pastel line and I've been selective breeding that for years. And I hear people say that, you know, they brown out and and I'm just wondering when my, when my pastels are going to brown out. The Mark Bell, um, line of pastels in my opinion has always been the the best line.
>> I think it, pides, people got to get over this this anti-pastel thing. I, I was talking, I think it was with Wilmer Marose, but I mean, to, if I brought somebody into my facility that knew nothing about ball pythons and I showed them a past, my pastel yellow belly female breeder,
>> Pi.
>> Uh-huh. There's not, I mean, there's not a brighter, better looking snake. I mean, just from a, I don't know anything, like that will always pass the holy smokes, what is that test. And like, that to me is always the most important. Don't get me wrong, I would love to
>> Cash in on some, you know, five-figure snakes one day, but when it comes down to just what looks good and doesn't, um, you know, and stands the test of time,
>> I have a hard time saying anything against, like I say, that pastel yellow belly girl, pied girl, you know.
>> Oh, I get it. And by the way, I just wanted to um, commend you, uh, on your, um, Ultra Mel clown project.
>> Just
>> Thank you so much.
>> Just when I saw, I was watching your video the other day and I thought, are you kidding me?
>> Thank you.
>> Those are amazing.
>> You got to fall in love with it, right? Like
>> It's actually, let's talk about this because it's kind of funny. We hear we hear this advice or I do anyway.
>> You got to pick your lane. You got to plan what's going to happen and you got to stick with your plan.
>> Yeah.
>> What does Mike Tyson say? Everybody's got a plan. So you get punched in the chin. Like those Ultramel clowns. I was like, "Okay, forget the other plans. We're going that way." Like, you, you don't know what you're going to fall in love with sometimes. Like they were, they're phenomenal. Now it's like
>> That's amazing. Some of the most, some of the most beautiful snakes I've ever seen were those three that you showed the other day. Just
>> Wow.
>> Thank you.
>> Amazing.
>> And those are the base. Well, one of them had pinstripe and that was the other two were just. Now, the variation of the ultramel is incredible too. That was what I found in there.
>> Yeah, I saw that, um, that one female that you showed that looked like she might have some pastel in her or something else there. There's just too much, too much action in there. And that's one, as I said in the video, I acquired. Now, I do know where she came from. And um, uh, I'm the, at least, well, the producer and then I'm the second owner after the producer, but I know the producer. So, actually, I need to go back to him and say, either what's in there or what were you working with in that era?
>> Or just have a, or just have a full panel done on a shed test.
>> That's it. It's
>> I gotta jump the line. You know, maybe sometimes I can't do the, uh, one in 16 odds on a hat to hat, you know, double hat to hat, you know.
>> Thank you for the compliment, guys. If you want to check out that video, it's on YouTube. That's a full video. And actually, I just, I just put those three.
>> Thank you.
>> I was, I was drooling.
>> Beautiful.
>> That might be the best, best compliment I've ever gotten. I appreciate it. Uh, what, um, for people that are interested in the clown pi project, what gene, you said you're mixing like six, seven, six or seven genes in there. What is getting you going these days? What's keeping you excited after 20 years that you're still, uh, excited? I think, I think you brought some over. Yeah.
>> I have an acrylic pillar sitting right next to me with some of my animals in it.
>> Let me get you on the big screen. One second there.
>> Brian, uh, there's some other buttons. That's not the one. Okay, now we're getting there. Wrong person. There you are. Okay.
>> This, and I don't know if you guys can see, um, here. Let me see if I can show you the head.
>> This is a pastel fire orange dream yellow belly enti pied.
>> So there's six in here. Not for anything, okay? But I guarantee you that um, she will be a part of that project that will then take, take the pi clown project to the next level.
>> Right.
>> And her dad right now is, and he is a, um, pastel fire yellow belly, um, entie pied. And he's been locking up to my pied clowns and my clown. And when I say pie clowns, most of them are pastel leopard pie clowns. But this is just, you know, this snake is on fire. It's just. And again, there's pastel in this, too.
>> Yep.
>> But there's orange dream, there's yellow belly, there's there's entie. And that head is just, here, let me
>> Yeah. Super high contrast and clean.
>> Look at that.
>> How old's that girl? About a year.
>> About a year. Yeah.
>> About a year. Yep.
>> Yeah. Maybe six to eight months. Yeah. More.
>> Okay. Yeah. Holding the color. Beautiful.
Though. Oh, she is. Yeah.
Yep. And um, so yeah, it's it's all about just adding, you know, layering in gene traits into that into the Py clown project. And, you know, I'm going in different directions. I'm working with GHI into the Py clown project, the mystic. Uh, yeah, and even my gold blush stuff, I'm putting into the Py clown project now.
So, did you say gold blush?
Gold blush. It's a a gene trait that I originated about 20 years ago. I um, I had, I just through breeding the project, I established it as being at least a um, a dominant. It could might be a co-dominant. Um, and yeah, it's a it's a gene trait that I have um, in pretty much infiltrated into my whole collection. It was a a normal-looking ball python that people used to go crazy over and I, you know, originally I just thought it was a normal ball python. Uh, but and when I started breeding it to different gene traits, it would just, you know, it works as an enhancer.
I see.
It really, it's, you know, it was just a normal, like, you know, it looks like a special or or a yellow belly. It's excuse me. It's just a normal-looking ball python, but there are different visual traits that you can identify it and they're and they're um reproducible.
And that's when I started thinking, okay, maybe I have a a different gene trait going here.
Right? And uh, and a lot of people would would ask for them and they would say, "Do you have any more of those snakes that have a lot of um blushing that have a lot of gold into?" So I just started calling them gold blush and um, I've been working with it for years.
Wow. When uh when did you decide like how long ago was it that you were like, "Okay, I got something and I've proven this at least to myself whether anybody else does it."
20 years or so.
Really? Really? Okay. That's been a while then. What um what what do you find that it brings to pides? Is there a benefit in the pides that you find?
You know, I'm just now bringing it into the Pied Clown project. So
Oh, really? Okay.
It hasn't been something that I've really focused on. It's just sort of a peripheral gene trait that I've had on the side. I uh I um, yeah, it's not something that I've really focused on even though I do have it in my in my collection. It's just been a little toy that I've kind of worked with the little, you know, sidekick thing. But yeah, I'm working it into the into the Pied Clown project.
Excellent. Excellent. Uh, you mentioned um at least one other recessive and being DG and I can't remember if there was another. Do you ever see yourself trying to uh bring a third and a triple visual in?
Yeah. You know, I gotta say, you know, when I was uh looking at your um, your your ultramale stuff the other day, I thought, you know what? I got Pi clown females and I've got an ultra male male.
There you go.
And I thought, Lo, I'm going for it. You know, because I was so I was so impressed with your snakes that I thought, you know, let's go. And I'm, you know, because I'm 73, you know, I'm kind of at the end of my journey here and uh, I haven't really been focusing on triple heads.
Right?
But I thought, you know what? If I can produce a a ultra male pied clown and mixed in with a bunch of other gene traits, how beautiful that snake would be, you know?
Abs. I mean, just with the one that you just showed that and ultraml would be unbelievable. It' be just a complete fire.
Yeah. So, that's the direction I'm starting to go. And um, you know, a lot of Orange Dream stuff. I love how Orange Dream really brightens things up. And um, I again, I wish I had gotten into the Desert Ghost um adventure many years ago, but I haven't. And so, that's one of the things I'm kind of kicking myself for. But again, at 73, you know, how many more years am I going to be either around or or breeding snakes, you know, right? So again, I'm not the end of I'm not at the beginning of my journey. It's I'm at the end of it. So you have to think about that. You know, when you start working with triple triple heads or even quads, you know, it could be a five to 10 year project.
Yeah. It could be a lifetime. Absolutely.
Yeah. So, I'm starting late with the triples, but um again, after seeing yours the other day, I thought, you know what? I would I would be, you know, an idiot not not to incorporate uh going into the into the uh triple head side of things.
Well, if I could ever help speed it up or I have an ingredient that will speed it up, you let me know. It' be an honor to uh either work with you or just send you one, man. I I mean it. Um, that'd be great. Um, what do you I mean, you kind of touched on it here and and it's not really my place to ask these sorts of questions. I don't mean, but you brought it up, but like what does what does an exit plan look like? Not from this planet, but from from the hobby and from from that world of snakes. What are are there contingencies for where these snakes go? Or I don't know. I don't know what your collection size is. like is there a
I have about 100 ball pythons.
Yeah.
And uh, you know, it's kind of sad, but I had a contingency plan set up. A good friend of mine, his name was Dave Calling. He's a Brazilian rainbow breeder. Very high-end um Brazilian rainbow breeder. And um, we had, you know, I mean, we had it all set up that if I were to pass or when I pass, uh, he would, you know, take my collection and keep what he wants and um, and then sell the rest and either, you know, keep half the money or give give the money to my wife and or my kids. And
and the sad part about it is about two months ago, he passed away.
Oh my goodness. My condolences. I'm sorry.
Yeah. Good. Good friend. good good guy. And um, so I'm not sure at this point in time, you know, I
I've got a few thoughts going, but I haven't really, you know, contacted anyone to, you know, to take over the the business. You know, the side of my business where I'm actually doing the educational programs, you know, that would be an easy thing. Just stop doing them.
Well, yeah. Right. But uh when you're dealing with a hundred animals um there's it's there's a little bit more to it than that.
Yeah. A little more specialization. And I you know as I as and thank you for sharing that as I've listen, you know, it really doesn't matter. It's not really an age-related question. It's easy when it's age-related. But the fact is like I think about sometimes like what a burden it would be to my wife if I didn't like if if I got you know, if I get hit by a semi-truck on the way home from the facility, god forbid, like she's going to have enough problems on her hands. She doesn't need, you know, 300 ball pythons in a car wash. Like I need I kind of need to have a I need to get my act together on that a little bit too.
Here I am again at the end of my adventure here. Um, I've got to I've got to start being more aggressive with that thought process. There's just no question.
Because that's the last thing I want to do. And my wife doesn't even like snakes.
I I think mine's patient, but yeah, she she she has no desire to go hang out with those snakes one bit. Not much less scrape their poop or anything else.
No, no, no.
God forbid she had to answer to the rodent section of the operation. No, that Yeah.
And that's what I was doing just before I came onto your podcast was, you know, I was cleaning rat cages.
Oh, do you still you still breed your own rodents, too?
Of course. Sure.
Yeah. Yeah. What's uh I Well, you're in California, maybe you can't say, but what's your rodent of choice? Uh uh any any preference?
Oh, it's all rats with me.
All rats for you. Yeah.
I you know, we can't have um soft furs out here.
Yeah, the ASFs. That's why I phrased it that way. I I know some people maybe might know a guy that have some if if they want you got some, right? Is that how we say it?
Yeah, that's a good way to say it.
Hypothetically. Yeah, I gotcha.
Yeah.
I don't have any. And um, you know, I'm just producing rats, a few mice sometimes to get some finicky eaters started.
Right?
But 99.9 Well, I would say 100% of my uh ball pythons are eating rats. Yeah. Yep.
I Yeah.
Gotcha. Gotcha. Yeah. I breed I breed uh ASFs, but I also feed frozen rats. So, and
I switch mine back and forth. Anytime I anytime I hear this uh, you know, oh, they get hooked on ASFs. I just kind of roll my eyes. I'm like, "Come to the shop. We we'll feed it one one week. The next week I'll feed it a frozen rat and it'll be just fine." You know? So,
sure.
Um, uh, did you have any other uh clown pies? Do you have a Did you have more than one or just one show off? Yeah. What else you got that that gets you going there?
Let's see here. Here is a really nice one I just produced. Now, there's a funny story with this one. Uh, this is a female pie clown and I honestly don't in fact I've just I've got a shed test in a Ziploc plastic bag just waiting to be sent in.
Oh, you've entered the world. I didn't know if you had entered the world of shed tests or not. I didn't mean to cut you off. What are you going to be testing for, honor?
So, it's it's a going to be a full panel cuz I just don't know. But this is a real pretty little female uh with some very soft There we go. some very soft saddles on her.
Oh, look at that. Yeah.
And her head is just, you know, there's a lot of color. Let's see here. There we go. And um, so what happened was I have my incubator in my office right here. I'm in my office now.
Thought I saw behind you there. Yeah.
And um, when I was transferring the eggs from my my snake room, which is outside, it's a it's a standalone building. It's 10 ft wide by 22 feet long. And on my way into my office, uh, I dropped the card that showed the history of reading. Well, I have a one and a half yearear-old uh English cream golden retriever that eats anything and everything. So, I get into the into my office and start putting the eggs in the incubator and I can't find the history card and my dog ate it.
Oh. So, so here's a beautiful snake that I produced that I don't know what it's what its background is. And I'm I'm in the process of having a a full panel done on this girl.
There you go. She looks great though.
Pretty.
Yeah. Just to play.
And let me show you a couple others. Me,
too. Yeah.
So, again, I was telling you I'm kind of into the orange dream stuff.
Uh, yep. So, here is a female orange dream pied clown. And you can see how pretty she is.
Mhm.
She's about a year and a half old. Let's see. Here we go. And again, I'm just um just continually taking the PI Clounge project to another level, to the next level.
Yep.
And um, we'll then, you know, take this and breed it to something um that's got a lot a lot of gene traits in it. And and now I'm starting to focus more on um on the um excuse me, the um mystic side of things and the GHI side of things. So, we'll see how that goes. Here's a real real pretty um pastel orange dream pi clown. That's a nice combo. And the the coloring and the I like for me I like that balance of a of a light color and a and pides like that.
Yeah.
And you can you know the head is just beautiful and and you'd think by looking at this the um the pattern looks like it might be some yellow belly in there.
Right? Yeah.
No yellow belly, huh? Yeah,
there's no yellow belly at all. Pastel leopard pine clown.
Ah, very nice. uh orange stream in that one too or not?
Yes. Yes. Yes.
Yeah. Okay. That's okay. Yep.
And then again another direction I'm going I mentioned the ghi stuff here is and this is going to take the project into a darker place.
Right? But this is a pastel leopard ghi mojave head for a clown poset pi.
Nice. That pastel actually breaks up that that ghi leopard mojave can just kind of end up with just a stripe. Sometimes a pastel breaks it up nicely. Brings a pattern back. Huh.
And again, as I as I mentioned those gene trades, I'm just guessing on them. I mean, I would
I haven't done I haven't shed to this guy. I might be pleasantly surprised or not, but that's at least that's the um my preliminary guess is that it's GHI leopard Mojave and I it might even be a super pastel
because because of the you know that head. Let's see here.
Oh yeah, the super washed out there. I see. Yeah. Uh, I would say of nearly anybody on this planet, uh, if you said it has those genes, I'd be inclined to at least start there as a, uh, as a good place. Yeah.
And I'm just, you know, going by, uh, the the parents of the snake, you know. So yeah, it's again it's just, you know, to me um I don't have enough time and enough space to really focus on a bunch of stuff. So I've just to, you know, spent the last 20 years or so just kind of narrowing things down.
I think the results are fantastic. And and for those of y'all that missed the beginning of the show, there's a whole uh segment in there about a brilliant business plan that you can do just fine on uh, you know, focusing on what you enjoy and and going after that. Um, Brian, thanks for sharing those and pulling those for us. I appreciate that's that's an extra extra step of planning. Um, speaking of business plans, I got to pay some bills. If you got if I could take about a twominut break and then I was thinking I was thinking I wanted to give you a moment to think here. It's It's up to you if you want to. I don't know. But the last time you were on, you you just have these fantastic stories. And I was thinking there had to be a time you got yourself into a a pickle or maybe you ran with some strange folks in the reptile industry over the past uh, you know, couple decades. And maybe there's a hypothetical uh scenario you could tell us about that. I I don't know. I'm just putting you.
I got I got a million of them.
I figured so I thought so. All right, audience, stick around. Uh, check out these uh sponsors of Brian. We'll the last segment. We'll uh, we'll hear some stories from Brian.
That was good.
I told you guys about Red Line shipping a little bit earlier today. Uh, look, temperatures are fluctuating. They're ups and downs here in Minnesota. It's actually warm enough to ship right now. If you need to get an animal out immediately, go check out Redline Shipping. They have up-to-date information on temps, the uh equipment to ship them safely, and they have phone numbers that you can call and get guidance on that from uh reptile enthusiasts that are very experienced with both their animals and shipping. Use a promo code proper five and uh get yourself five bucks off your next shipping label. Uh, we have been talking about shed testing. Um, which, you know, if you're not familiar with, which I think everybody that watches the show probably is, but if you're not, shed testing saves you from having to go through what Brian was talking about breeding hats, holding back possible, breeding them, and hoping that they prove out. You can find out. You're going to keep less animals, you're going to be more efficient, and you're going to save yourself time. and uh charlie@shedtesting.com which is morphing into no pun intended into uh phenome.com. So you'll hear me use both of those uh websites but go check those out. He's just lowered his prices. He's improved his uh efficiencies with the lab as well as improve the automation so that less human hands have anything to do with this shed testing. So we're eliminating Adam is phenome. What's up? Yeah, Phenome is there you go. Brian Gundy's using Phenom. That's what you need to hear right there. Go check that out. Uh, you can use promo code proper 10. Brian, you can use this too. Get yourself 10% off of an order of shed test. You can order as many tests as you want in the order and you can do that two times. So, um, go check out uh phenome.com or shedtesting.com will get you there. Okay. Uh Sund Dog Serpents, that's Sarah and Josh down in Florida. Um, I've been working with them and friends and colleagues with them since 2021. I used to vend with Sarah in uh on the Repticon circuit there in Florida. Great people to work with. And some of those Ultramls, not the Ultramale clowns, but the other Ultramal breeders that I was that Brian was talking about in my video earlier came from Sarah and Josh at Sund Dog Serpents. They're working TSKanthic um as well as tskanthic clown projects as well as some puzzle projects that they have hatchlings for that are available right now and some hypo stranger clown stuff as well. So please go check them out. Good friend Sarah and Josh at Sund Dog Serpents. Reagan Renee Royal Pythons. Let me get my list here for uh for what he's got going on because he's got a ton going on. Go to reagan rene.com. Check this out. when you go there, everything that he has for sale on reanne.com. Ships for free. There's all kinds of different ways to pay. He even has the uh buy now pay later type of deal set up. I think it's through uh either Square or PayPal, whoever it's through, that's on there as well. He's going to ship it for free and uh if you use promo code proper 10, you'll get 10% off as well there. Uh, that's Charlie uh Ryan Al. He's in New Jersey, but he's also got this cool value ad stuff that he works in. He works in heavy uh uh logistics and analytics in his in his day job, so to speak. Um, and he's brought some of those analytics to some calculators that will calculate the value of shed testing. Should you shed test, should you not? What's your potential and likely gain and return for doing that based on various outcomes? Similarly, with various pairings, uh he he's vent venturing into this really analytical world. Those calculators are on Reagan renee.com and it's free. It's it's all a value ad. Just go check it out. That is uh Charlie reagan renee royal pythons. Uh he's working at Krypton, DG Gstripe, Candy Pi, Clown projects as well. So he's got ingredients for all of those and single, double, triple, and quad ingredients. Um, as far as hats and stuff go, uh Keeper Kane is another YouTube video content creator. Uh he keeps ball pythons, he keeps big snakes, he keeps aquatics, he keeps tarantulas. And uh the keeper Kane channel is just kind of the story of Kane and his wife Michelle and their adventures keeping these animals. It's always familyfriendly. You don't have to worry about who you're playing it around if you want to listen at work. Always safe for you there. So go check out Keeper Kane. Kane's a good friend and uh he's quite a character. He's always entertaining. So go check out Kane. Last but not least is BNS Reptilia. That is uh Chris Shelley. Um, the original advertising partner of Proper Royals. He's been supporting me for four years I guess now, maybe close to five. Um, I'm very thankful for that. But he's also become a friend, certainly a mentor. He's who I vend Tinley with in October. We own several animals together uh as far as investments we've made for the future. So he calls himself reptilia uh BNS reptilia because he breeds not only ball pythons but blood pythons locality boas colubrids of all shapes and sizes. Even pituous the bullsnakes and the pine snakes. Uh, if you're concerned about whether you need a certificate or license or anything in your state where you're at, he's got the knowledge and education uh as well as the paperwork to help you along with that. And if you want to see him in person, he'll have them in October at Tinley with me. March I end by myself, but uh October he'll have him with me at the booth. So, thank you to all of the advertisers. Guys, if you're looking for somebody to support in this industry, uh these are all people within the industry supporting the industry. They make content like this possible. They make it literally possible for me to keep the lights on every Tuesday night coming into my fifth year doing this. And how cool was it that people like Brian Gundy are hanging out with us tonight, too. So, uh, Brian, thanks for thanks for being here. Uh, we're we're into the home stretch now. I felt bad. I heard you tell your wife you were going to be on a podcast for an hour. We're up like 70 minutes. You got 15 minutes left in you.
Anytime. All the time you want, bud.
Okay. All right. Cool.
And before I before we go any further,
I just want to say a few words about how impressive you have been for the last four or five years that you've been doing this.
Thank you. Uh, it's it's been so interesting to watch how you personally have evolved and you know, I don't we don't really know each other. We don't talk to each other but um, your your your your podcast is getting so clean, it's becoming uh next level as far as your you know, you're not stumbling with your words. You're you're being you're being very clear. You're articulate. you're I just wanted to tell you how happy I am for you that you have found this and that you are um, you know, graduating to this next level on a continuous basis. So thanks for doing these and it's I'm sure I'm not the only one that thinks that way but I just thought I'd give you a little bit of a you know, way to go bud.
Brian, thank you so much. This uh, it's really kind. There's a a there's a saying that I really believe in and that you kind of have to have uh some thick skin in in in this game of social media and this world that we live in.
And that saying is if you don't respect the person, why would you care what they have to say? But if that's true, the complete opposite is true as well. As in, I respect you so much that your words mean so much to me. And uh, thank you. that that's really was a long way of me getting there of saying uh, I'm just flattered by that. Thank you very much.
Of course, it's my pleasure.
Thank you.
And I really mean that, Adam. It's you've come so far. You're doing so good.
Thank you very very much. Uh, you we last time we talked um, you see you strike me as a person that is uh curious that wouldn't mind finding your way into some fun situations that might turn sticky every now and again. I kind of do that a little bit myself. Sometimes my wife thinks I'm insane. Sometimes uh, you ever you ever get in a a weird situation and either in the reptile world or you know, whatever you want to if you got a fun one to lay on us. What do you got?
Well, did did I have I ever told you the story of when I got bid by a rattlesnake.
No. Okay, that'll work. Let's talk about
So, here we go.
Here we go.
So, this is about 40 years ago, maybe 35. I was up in the hills up here in the San Francisco Bay area being one I was with two of my friends. Uh, I was the only snake guy. Both of them were bird watchers.
And so we're hiking through the woods and I'm herping just at on a natural because that's what I do. And I see this rattlesnake traversing this little hillside. And um, I asked them, I said, "Hey, you guys want to see you you want to get a good close look at that thing?" Oh, sure. That'd be great. And I said, "Okay, I'll go ahead and and and pick it up." I used to freehand rattlesnakes back in the day. And so anyway, I broke a branch off of a tree. I created a little, you know, um, fork in it to pin the snake's head down. Well, the way I was situated on this hill, I couldn't, um, pin its head down with my right hand, which I am right-handed. So, I had to pin its head down. Um, no, I pinned its head down with my right hand and then came in behind the head with my left hand.
I see. Yeah. Which you typically control it with your right, your dominant hand, right?
Exactly. Yeah.
So, as I'm now holding on to this twoft, 2 and 1/2t rattlesnake had six buttons on its tail. Um, and I'm thinking, "Okay, this is working." You know, and all of a sudden it just kind of started stiff arming me a little bit. And it took one of its fangs and maneuvered it by itself and and buried it into my left index finger.
Whoa.
And not only buried it, but started gnawing on my finger as I'm holding on to it. It
It's doing the milking. uh thing that we see except right into your finger. Huh?
Right into my left index finger. So I th I threw the snake into the bushes.
So anyway, I threw it in the bushes.
Um, I pulled out my pocket knife, cut my finger twice right at the fangs the the spot where I was bit, started sucking the blood, and you know, I mean, being bit by a snake was no big deal. You know, we've all been bit. I've been bit hundreds of times.
Um, anyway, started sucking the blood out of my finger and uh, within about five minutes of being bit, I started falling to the ground.
Yeah, I bet.
And the third time I fell to the ground, I couldn't get back up. And lucky for me, one of the guys I was with was a big 6 foot three, 230 pound dude that literally just picked me up and threw me over his shoulder. Uh, we p we hiked down to this road and there were these uh guys in a Volkswagen bug and they were drunk. So you got the 63 guy all you around and who comes to help you is the drunk dude the drunk guys in the VW bug. Huh?
So my friend the big guy he he asked them if they could give me a ride back to the park headquarters. I was up at a place called Sol Regional Park and they said, "No, no, no. We don't want to do that." And my friend literally grabbed the driver, pulled him out of the car and said, "You are going to give my friend a ride back to the park headquarters." And so they obliged. They did.
Okay.
And I they drove me back to the park headquarters. Um, the swelling was so bad in my left hand. Uh, there were there was no gap between my fingers. It swelling was all the way down into my arm and into my chest.
And because I had sucked the blood because you have me mucous membranes in your mouth.
Yes.
Actually started absorbing the venom into my mouth and my head started swelling up like a balloon. I um, and because of the venom, I actually started salivating amazingly amount of saliva to the point where I was just constantly spitting.
Yeah. Your body's probably trying to expel it, huh?
I don't know.
I don't know.
Anyway, so I got to the park headquarters. Uh, they they called Luckily for me, there was a police helicopter flying by somewhere in the vicinity. They called in this helicopter. The helicopter landed right there in the parking lot.
Yeah.
And um, and I they gurnied me. They put they strapped me up in a gurnie outside of the helicopter like they did in that that TV show MASH.
Okay. Yeah.
So I was outside of the helicopter being flown about 20 miles or so to a place called Hayward.
Whoa. Hang on. They Okay, I got the gurnie part. They didn't put the gurnie inside the helicopter. They
Oh, they just strapped it to like the step of it.
Exactly.
So, I get to the hospital within two hours of being bit by the snake and the nurse as she they're getting me off the helicopter, she asked me if I was allergic to anything. And I said, "I think I'm allergic to beastings."
I would have said rattlesnakes. And then so she says, "Well, if you're allergic to bee stings, then you're probably allergic to rattlesnake venom."
Oh, yeah. Okay.
And I did. Okay. So anyway, they admitted me into the hospital. I was in ER. They um they started pumping me with um antivenenom. Uh, I ended up with seven vials of antivenenom. And they then they uh periodically would ask me, "Are you having a hard time swallowing or anything like that?"
Right. Right.
And and the bite itself was agonizing. It was I was moaning and groaning. It was not a pleasant experience. And anyway, um uh about an hour after I got to the hospital, I started having a hard time swallowing.
Yeah.
So I went into anaphylactic shock.
The shock. Yep. And then I went into a coma.
Whoa.
I was in a coma for three days. I could hear everything. I couldn't see. I couldn't speak. And the only thing that kept Well, I don't know about the only thing, but my f my total focus was on inhaling and then to remind myself to exhale and then again reminding myself to inhale and then exhale. And I did. You remember this while you were in your
I totally remembered. Yeah, it was it was every ounce of effort I had to breathe.
Mhm.
And I did that for three days. I came out of the coma and um, I ended up with a case of hides. I had bumps from the top of my head to the bottoms of my feet, every square inch of my body. And that's sort of basically tells you that there's an allergic reaction going on.
Right.
And uh, they never knew if I was allergic to the venom or the antivenenom.
Mhm.
They do give you when you get there, they gave me a subcutaneous injection of antivenenom and they're looking for redness and swelling and things like that which
just under the skin like the TV that they give you. Yeah.
Yeah. And so anyway, um, I came out of the coma had that, you know, went into that uh case of hives and I now have a some paralysis on my left index finger probably due to the fact that I cut it
to the bone.
Right. Right.
I still see rattlesnakes all over the place. I'm I'm out in the field constantly. Yeah. And uh this probably one of the most common snakes that I find and but I don't pick them up anymore. I
Okay.
I just take take video, take pictures, and say hello and goodbye.
Were you um first I'm glad you survived and thanks for sharing. That's that's a wild story. I mean, hanging outside a helicopter on a gurnie is
Oh, that was the best part of it.
Oh my god. I mean, I'm sure at that point you were uh, whatever the negative version of uh high and euphoric is you were on the negative, but I'm sure that it was that helped the uh the helicopter ride or whatever you're going through.
I mean, I had no control over anything that was happening.
Of course. So, I just made the best of it and it was just another adventure, you know, but it was such a a neat experience to be able to fly right over the tea treetops. Yeah. you know, be able to look out, you know, from left or right side
and being looking straight up at the
at the propeller or whatever you call it. Yeah, it was that was the best part of the whole experience was the the ride to the hospital.
Oh, I have a uh I have a terrible fear of heights. So, that would Oh my goodness. I would have been I would have been in rough shape. But u Well, uh were you married at that time?
Yes. How did that conversation go when you got home or when you came out of your
Well, I remember um when I was in the hospital in the coma, uh, I remember my parents coming in. I couldn't see him. I couldn't move.
But I remember the conversation that they had with the doctor.
Oh, wow. You know, the doctor told them that the next 36 hours were going to I was critical and the next 36 hours were going to be very important as far as my recovery and they just didn't know which way I was going to go
because of the way I had been reacting. They were going to they were thinking about doing a fasciottomy fasc fasciottomy where they go in and cut your your your muscles so that your uh your the swelling won't cut off the circulation.
Oh, right. Right. Wow.
Because that's when you can start losing limbs and fingers and things like that.
Right.
But they never had to do that.
Um, I more meant uh uh was there a stern talking to about uh snakes and such? uh from your wife?
No, you know, I met my wife at a I was a vette at an animal hospital.
Oh, cool. Yeah.
And so was she. And we worked with a veterinarian that's that specialized in exotics.
And she she knew me for years before we got married. So she knew I was, you know, this sort of just a matter of time before before something like that happened. and and I had been freehanding rattlesnakes out in the field uh before that. It was just that was my last time.
Yeah. Right. Uh, man, Brian, thank you for sharing. I I knew you'd have something. I didn't know what I was getting into in audience. I promise that wasn't staged. That was off the cuff. Uh, just me going there. There'd be something there if I asked. So
Oh, yeah.
Uh, thank you so very much. Um, Brian, for people that are just meeting you tonight, uh, where can they find you? Where can they follow you? Where can they hang out with you? All of that good stuff this day and age. How can they get a hold of you?
Sure. Well, my phone number is 408-9816694. Uh, my email address is fg snakes uh sbcglobal.net. I'm on Instagram almost daily. Uh, probably two or three times a week. I think I have about 600 and something um, you know, pieces of content on Instagram all the way from me herping to doing the educational presentations, checking you know, checking out my animals. Um, and I'm also on Yelp. I have a about two over 200 um, uh reviews on Yelp and I do have a five-star rating
for your uh for the snake presentations.
Yeah.
Oh, excellent. Fant. That's uh great, Brian. I I hope I get to I got to get out there and come hang out one day. Like I I would just uh I'd sit up on a on a hill. Maybe there's a outcropping, a little bottle of Napa's finest and uh just go hang out. It'd be fantastic. Go over.
So you're you're going to be at the Tinley show coming up in October.
I'll be at both. Yeah, I'll be at all the Tinley's. Yeah.
So I'm actually thinking about getting out to Tinley this year. So, if and when you do, I'll I'll come by and say hi.
Oh, please do. Please do. I would uh I would love that. That would that would make my day. I I hope that you do come out. That'd be fantastic. Um
All right. Well, Brian, thank you for being here. Stick around for just a second in the green room and uh I'll tell you thank you another five times, but thanks for being here. Audience, go check out Brian. Support Brian. You can learn a ton from Brian. I didn't uh get a chance to sneak it in there, but when I was learning how to probe, I didn't know Brian or who he was at the time, but his video was how I learned how to probe animals. That was that was the first time that I uh crossed paths with with you, Brian. So, um, anyhow, very uh useful, fun content. You can you could see the kind of guy that he is. So, thanks very much, Brian. Next week, I got Will Marose coming back on the show. We had a little scheduling snafu uh just before the holidays and we ended up just shelving the show and hanging out for a minute. But we're going to do the actual uh what's new in 2026 for Will Marose uh from Royal Canadian Reptiles uh next week. So, a couple bangers to start off the year. Audience, thank you so much. I couldn't be more thankful and more flattered that uh you guys come and do this every week. So, thanks very much. I will see you guys same place, same time next Tuesday night. See you. Cheers.