What's going on, everybody? I've got Will Morose from Royal Canadian Reptiles in the green room. If you haven't met Will before, he's genuinely somebody that I learn about the most from on the uh times that he joins me here on Proper Royals Live. So, thanks for being here. Let's get to it.

[music] >> [music] [music] >> How you guys doing tonight? Thank you for being here. I'm still messing with the sound on this new microphone. I like it, but it's just have to watch it a little bit. I don't want it to get too distract too distorted, but I also don't want to feel like I'm having to yell. Here we go. We're going to try it like that. I think that's probably Okay, we'll keep going there.

How you doing tonight? Uh it's Tuesday night. I got Will Morose from Royal Canadian Reptiles on the show. The newly uh uh I don't know if he's newly arrived or recently displaced to America. We'll ask him. Uh [laughter] actually, uh we're going to focus on looking forward to 2026 tonight. If you haven't seen the episode that he did with uh Mike over on Herp Collectors, check that out. Tells a whole story of um his move and kind of the trials and the tribulations. Will was scheduled I don't know two or [clears throat] three weeks ago on the show and then there was some scheduling challenges. All good. Um but I got him rescheduled tonight and uh we'll do the do the full episode. So that's what we got going on.

Um, thanks audience for being here. I don't generally go through uh everybody's thing, but I do want to say uh quick little shout out to Dale. Dale and Jeremy Ba and Steve Casino and uh Justin from Morph Jungle and Miguel from Perfectly Engineered Reptiles kicked off a uh monthly podcast that those guys are doing together on uh Friday night at I think it's once a month, maybe the last Friday. You got to keep just check out their social media. They'll they'll tell you when it is. Um but go check those guys out. I have to tell you, I don't know Justin great, but I know Justin pretty well. But the other four are the guys that really got me off the ground and got me going and got me started in Florida and looked out for me. So, uh, if there's anything I could do, first, I'm happy to help you guys, but second, just go check out their podcast, man. There's a ton of wealth of information just sitting there, man. Uh, waiting to be uh, unearthed. So, I'm excited for you guys. Thanks for being here, Dale. I always appreciate you. Um, who else we got in here? Uh, Stephen, what's going on? Thank you guys. Uh, okay. Got a live. There you go. You made it to a live. Congratulations. Stick around. Thank you very much. Appreciate you being here.

Um, all right. Couple uh very quick announcements. I'm working hard on getting into the De Moines show in Iowa, the Cold Blooded Expose show. I usually vend that show. Uh, I messed around and uh waited. I I here's what happens. I wasn't messing around twiddling my thumbs. If you book the whole year uh with coldblooded, you get a good discount. Cash flow for them, discount for me. Makes good sense. I like this business model. I was uncertain of my calendar. So, I waited to book. By the time I booked it, it was sold out. [snorts] So, I'll be at the next De Mo show for sure. Uh which I think is actually like March 1st or 7th or something. It's right around the corner to tell you the truth. But I'm trying to get into this one. So January 25th, I'm hoping I should be at the uh De Mo Cold Blooded Expo show. Then January 31st, I'll be in uh Lacrosse, Wisconsin vending, the Scaled Up Expo show. And then February 8th, I'll be in Madison, Wisconsin. Brand new show for me, brand new market for me. I'm excited about it. I won't get into it tonight, but I'm a kind of a demographics nerd. And I really like the demographics of, and I'm not talking like racial demographics, I'm talking financial, economic, um, uh, demographics of Madison. I, like I say, I won't bore everybody getting into them, but I'm excited to check out that show. If you've ended in Madison before, I want to uh, I want to hear about your experience, but I will be there. So, uh, starting the 25th, three weekends in a row. Um, I'll see you out on the road here.

Uh, what else we got? Uh, how good is breeding season when it starts picking up a little bit? I got some girls at 34 and 39 millimeters. Just a really early ones, but you know, the pairings, the locks are going well. You're ultrasounding regularly. All those good things are happening. It's exciting time on that. um locals uh here in Minnesota if you want to truck down to or up to or over to or wherever Northfield is to you. Thursday night I'll be performing uh a full gig, full show uh with um a fiddle player named Will Armstrong. I'll be on acoustic guitar, will be on fiddle, and uh we'll be playing a night of uh pub songs, stories, Americana at the Grand in Northfield. No cover. Music starts at six o'clock. Um, if you want a local taste, a lot of people ask me for like videos of me pro. I when I'm performing, I can't run the video. So, and I'm usually a oneman show. Lord, Lord knows my wife is not coming out after 20 years to see the same show again. Um, she might I'm not sure. She might be there. I will try and get video. I'll share it in my stories. You got to follow on Instagram. I'm not posting it in the regular feed, but I'll put one in the stories, but um if I can get uh videos of it.

Uh, check out properroyals.com. I still have uh it's either four, five, or six somewhere in there number of clutches that I still haven't updated. Still haven't gotten posted. They'll go to uh uh to um Patreon first, then to properroyals.com and then eventually they'll get to uh Morph Market and Palm Street stores. So check that out. Speaking of Palm Street, Palm Street bringing you tonight's episode ad free. You didn't have to hear an ad to get into the room tonight. If you're watching on replay, you won't be interrupted by ads. Thanks for Palm Street. It is live selling. Again, I'm not going to dive into it right now, but if I ever need to do an episode on the fly, I think Palm Street is great, and I think that they welcome reptiles. I know that they welcome reptile sales, so I love it for that. But live selling in general, whatever platform it's on, I'm telling you, it's the thing. Get comfortable with it. Get used to it. You're going to have to do it. That's not just me saying it. That's Forbes saying it. That's Gary Vee saying it. That is these companies putting tens and 20s and 30s of millions of dollars into these platforms. Like this stuff has steam. You got to pay attention sometimes. And like I say, Palm Street welcomes us and has the platform. I know Morph Market's working on it, too. Like you got you got to start practicing, guys. Be ready to uh live sell. Uh not even talking auctions, just live selling in general. Start practicing. head over to Palm Street. There's a link to sell right in the description. Okay, there you go. There's a there's that pitch.

Um, I think that's it. Uh, Will Morose, I met uh Will, I think at I think I met him first on the show actually. I was really happy to have him on, but uh we always uh end up having a quick beer uh late night hangout or chat at Timling. He's always welcomed me and um been uh very gracious with his time, which actually I am going to ask him about. That's uh it's fantastic how much time he makes for stuff like this. And when you have a big collection, I don't really know how he does that. So, I'd like to know that too tonight. Um the last time that uh I got to go to Toronto, um it seems weird. I was at Mark Mandic's house, but it felt like Will was the host at Mark Mandic's house, at least for the snake tour part of it. Uh which was very, very cool. So, anyhow, what I'm saying is, uh thanks for being here, Will. Please welcome back to the proper royal stage uh Will Morose. Will, how you doing, man?

>> Not bad. Not bad. How are you doing, man?

>> I am good. I am good. Is your uh your blood run uh thinned out yet? You started getting cold. I see. Oh, you got a hood. You got a little uh little sweater on. Look. Yeah, a little cold. [laughter] Little cold though.

>> Yeah. Today uh actually I had to take my wife to the airport and uh there was frost on the on the truck this morning and I was like [ __ ]

>> Yeah. Get some, man. It does happen. It does.

>> It was gone. It was gone by the time like that was at like 5 in the morning. So, it was gone by uh you know 7:00 it was all

>> Yeah. Yeah. Once the sun is over the horizon the sun comes up. Yeah.

>> Yeah. It's all done. That's cool though, man. Um

>> yeah, I I alluded to it, right? There's nothing more awkward than talking about the person while they're in the green room, [laughter] right? Like there's nothing worse than that. Uh hey, thanks for like I say, you're always really generous with your time. Could we kick things off and like what is your like what is like your operation look like? Do you have employees? What's the scope of your operation? What do you you know how do you what what's some of your workflows, man?

>> Um so I I have like a pretty like strict schedule. Yeah.

>> I that was one thing like when I went full-time that was one thing I like mega struggled with cuz it was sort of like uh Jerry. Yeah, it is an empty room dude. I'll get to it. And it just feel I feel like the office is like last thing I need to furnish. I Let's furnish the rest of the house first. Uh computer works. It's all good. Um but I that was something I struggled with uh struggled with right out of the gate was my schedule.

>> And so like we went full-time. I went full-time kind of like as soon basically as soon as COVID hit. I was just like I'm going fulltime like screw this.

>> Yeah.

>> And and I went full-time and haven't looked back. But that first summer was like, "Ah, I could do that tomorrow. Ah, I can do that tomorrow." I And then you have buddies, it's all summer. Everyone's off work. So my buddies are all all back home. Hey, you want to go shoot a round of golf? Like, [ __ ] yeah, I do. You know, like Yeah. Like it was like a lot of that's that type of summer. Um, but I think probably production backed off because of that. um just not paying as much attention to, oh, she needs to be bred this week, she needs to be

>> saying your opportunities or your results went down.

>> Yeah, I think my results went down because of lack of lack of focus and I sort of dialed myself in about the ne the following year. Um and uh I sort of set a schedule for myself. So

>> Monday mornings, it's the worst way to start your week, but it's like the best way to start your week. Monday morning, I get up, I have my coffee, I go to the rat room, I clean the rats. Monday morning, first thing, it's like up at like 7 o'clock, have my coffee, let the dogs out, let them do their thing, and then into the rat room and get it done. And that first like 20 minutes in there, you're like, uh, you know, it's like, uh, but once you're done, like around noon, you're like, I'm done the rats for the week. I have to come in. I have to pop in and top up food and check water. you're topping up food and checking water, but you're not flipping tubs the rest of the week,

>> right? I'm not scrubbing tubs and washing stuff. So, that's that's first of the week.

>> Um then Monday afternoon, um whatever. Haven't had to do it yet. Uh but once my rodent production picks up more, then I I'll I'll feed off of my production. I've been buying rats for the time being. Um, but uh and then Tuesday's like a cleaning day because I like to feed and then let everything eat and then Tuesday go back through and clean everything.

>> Uh,

>> so do you you feed on Mondays as well?

>> I I right now I'm feeding on Thursdays just because that's the delivery schedule for the the roadies. But when Ice once my production is sustaining my collection, I'll I'll clean

>> and then all the smalls that I pull, but then I can refill those bins, those smalls go out, they get fed off and uh

>> and we just cycle through through the week,

>> right?

>> Um so Tuesdays is a big cleaning day. Uh it's cleaning uh change I change all the waters every single week, you know, like that sort of thing. uh break down more coconut. Just it's like a cleaning and just sort of like an inventory week like checking do I have enough boxes to ship out for next week? Do I have to order anything? Do I have to like all that sort of stuff? Um and and my like schedule has kind of changed since I've been in the States just because of you know I'm still just kind of like trying to figure out where I'm going half a day.

>> Yeah, I'm sure and I'm sure there's like 10 things every day you're like I need that. Oh yeah.

>> Oh, for sure. For sure.

>> The clips and rubber bands like, "Oh, where were those?" Or, "Where did WD40 get put in the mood? Screw it. I'll just go buy it." Like,

>> you get two months of that probably, right?

>> There's a lot of like you you don't realize how much stuff you

>> can pack until you're like, "Hey, where's the Xacto knife?"

>> Yeah. Where's the box having at your hand reach? Like, it's I don't know where

>> I know I know it's like in that shelf. It'll be in that shelf somewhere or in that drawer. And yeah, that's just stuff that like, oh shoot, don't have that. Got to run to tractor supply. You go to tractor supply, you come back and then it's like,

>> oh man, where are all my drill bits? Ah, dang it. I forgot those. Got to run [laughter] to Tractor Supply. You know, like it's like all like these little things. I I've had a bunch of Tractor Supply and Target runs. Like there's been lots of those at Walmart. lots of those like just stuff we didn't bring like a garbage pail, you know, like simple stuff like

>> dust, right? Yeah. Brooms, like all this, [laughter] you know, so there was

>> there was lots of that to start, but it's I'm starting to like kind of get into a flow. Um,

>> yeah,

>> but basically I rat rat feed day on Mondays. Cleaning supplies, just clean up the room, water everything. That that's that's Tuesday. That was today. Um, and then and then I ship on Tuesdays as well. Uh, every every Tuesday is my shipping day. I've kind of got out of the I thought for a while I'd be like, I'll just ship whatever day it feels like. But with it being a little cooler here, uh especially like at nights and stuff during the like the spring and fall, I don't see it being a big issue. But I like to take stuff to the hub.

>> I like the drop off at the hub, right? Rather than have a house pickup, of course.

>> Um I mean it'd be it's probably fine to be totally honest, but I just prefer to go to the hub. And uh

>> it just gives me a like if I have to go to if I have to ship out on Wednesday, if it throws off my my day, if I have to go out on Monday, but then I have to go again on Tuesday. So, I just say it to everybody who's who's ordering, like if you order a snake on Monday, I'll ship it out tomorrow, but if you order a snake on Wednesday, it's going to go out on Tuesday. Yeah.

>> Right. I just just my just to fit with my schedule. And it it seems to work. So, I go we go on Tuesdays. Uh, we got lunch on Tuesdays. Tuesday's lunch day. Lunch with the boys. Everybody goes out. We go try a different restaurant each week. And uh we go Yeah. We go get uh

>> go get lunch. And

>> And then tomorrow, what's tomorrow? Tomorrow's like Wednesday is just kind of like a miscellaneous

>> day. Like just kind of do whatever I I need to do. Like order banners for shows, find what lights to use. Uh, where am I going to get my my stationery stuff like all your business cards or your flyer, whatever the heck you use, right?

>> Um a lot of business prep, taxes, like all the like all that kind of stuff. the stuff that is like the least fun. So when Wednesday is like how did we do last month? Go look at the profit. Go look at the expenses. Go look at this. You know, like I'll break down. I try to do it monthly, but every Wednesday I'll like get gather all my receipts for the week. I put them in a little binder in my truck and I take them in and I put them in and I enter them into a uh Quickbooks and just do the whole

>> Do you do you do your own accounting or you have do you have somebody? do my own bookkeeping and then the accountant like

>> says like tells me I have a new accountant now um so it'll be my first filing with him.

>> Is that yearly you do that with the accountant or you do it quarterly? Okay, gotcha.

>> Well, I I don't know whatever they recommend to be honest with you.

>> Sure.

>> Um, I've only been here for a month, so I'm not super familiar with the US tax codes and everything. So, I like right out of the gate, the the lawyer who helped me with the the the the visa stuff also recommended an accountant that's familiar with the visa and how to like whatever you need to do.

>> I was going to say that's a whole different level of

>> it is, especially when there's like Yeah, especially when there's like a Canadian business and an American business and and money going back and forth between them and Yeah. So that that accountant is like very familiar with like crossber accounting and visas and the whole thing. So

>> but day-to-day like money in money out, how much have you spent, how much have you made that you're doing that in-house yourself?

>> I Yeah, I do all that in house. Yeah. And that's super simple for me to do. I just go on the

>> go into my bank statement, print out the month, and then just I start highlighting it and I move it all over into an Excel sheet. And yeah, just stay on top of your taxes, right? [laughter]

>> Yeah. I've been there.

>> Even just your accounting. Yeah. Well, yeah, exactly. Your Yeah. You don't want to get into tax.

>> I've been there. It sucks. Yeah. Well, they're like, "Oh, you owe us 35 grand." You're like, "Ah,

>> we got to talk about that. Let's hang on. We Let's discuss this.

>> So, [laughter] uh there there is there is that. Um that's Wednesday. Thursday, what do I do on Thursdays?" Um, Thursdays I generally Thursday nights will do a uh Zoom call with Patreon.

>> Okay.

>> Um, so that's that's like a Thursday night. Thursday is another kind of I kind of float around like just do whatever needs to get done really. Monday and Tuesday are like my two like these days I don't waver on, right? Wednesday, Thursday, Fridays, they can all kind of rotate back and forth. But there's a takes

>> uh are you scanning the uh receipts or digital? Uh

>> I scan

>> I scan them in.

>> Okay.

>> I I scan all that stuff in. Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> Um and then I obviously keep them still put them in a filing cabinet. Just years receipts, but generally you can just go into QuickBooks and then just print your receipts and then it just gives you it gives you in like a nice format, not like a bunch of like what is this? A tractor supply receipt, you No, I was gonna say mine are in these just monthly bundles in a bottomless pit of a file cabinet. He said Aaron just said for seven years. I was like I'm coming up on time. I need to clean mine out actually. [laughter]

>> Yeah. Yeah. So I just do I just do that. But like yeah like t uh Wednesday, Thursday, Fridays are kind of just

>> whatever's got to get done.

>> Just you know um got some tree monitors. So, like I spend some time I have to build I have to get a cage built. I have to order some lights. Um there's just like all that like dayto-day stuff answering phone calls. Um the one of the like the big headaches right now is establishing credit. So I'm like spending a lot of time like calling around to different places being like, "Okay, what should I do here? Trying to get a car loan. Like forget about it." Basically, I essentially don't exist.

>> And

>> it's a it's frustrating because I'm like,

>> "Yeah." Do you still have like Do you still have like a Canadian credit card that you can that you can

>> So, like if you go to Tractor Supply, you can put something on a credit card, but

>> Oh, no. I have a I have a US credit card as well. Um, so they gave me a US credit card, but like if I want to take a loan for like if I want to go and take a car loan for

>> $50,000, they're like, "Oh, you don't have enough like credit history to offer you something like that." Where in Canada, no problem at all.

>> Exactly.

>> Just because I've so much credit history there for 25 years or whatever that

>> But uh that that's one of the tricky things um that we've run into so far. But it'll get sorted out. We're uh we're working on a on a leasing a vehicle for my wife. My I have a truck so we're good there. We're gonna lease a vehicle for my wife and try and do just like a six month to a yearong lease. Get pay we're going to pay through the nose for it but just pay it build credit for six months and then take the [ __ ] thing back and then we can go get whatever you want.

>> But uh

>> how much uh that's an interesting topic too because it's something that I found I'm using more and more. How much business credit, let's say, at least in Canada, did you rely on uh business-wise for none? No. None. All All cash flow based.

>> All cash. Yeah.

>> Okay.

>> I've never taken a business loan at all ever.

>> A line of credit, revolving line of credit, anything like that? No.

>> Nothing. Nothing.

>> Yeah. Good for you. Okay.

>> No.

>> I think there's a lot of wisdom in that, by the way. That's that's my two cents. But

>> yeah, I just didn't want to like I've put I guess I put things on a I have a credit card, a business credit card, but not like a line of credit or like a like a like a a business loan or anything like that. I haven't taken any of those.

>> Um I just I've always looked at it like if I can't swing it now, something else will swing up. Something else will present itself at the right time, you know? You know, I do one of my favorite expressions. There's I learned it when I was I used to trade buy and sell old vintage guitars and and amps. There is always another guitar. There's always another amp. There's always going to be another snake. And honestly, the snake is probably going to be cheaper when the next one comes around, too.

>> And probably better genetics, too, [laughter]

>> you know. Yeah. So,

>> there's going to be another snake, man.

>> Yeah.

>> And I I mean, as much as I love selling snakes, I I do I do tell people that sometimes. I'm like, look,

>> yeah, there's something to be said about like business loans exist for a reason, right? So, like I'm not saying that it's a bad thing. I just

>> I've never put myself in into one. I've never had to, you know,

>> yeah,

>> I've never had to uh to to take a take one. I've always sort of like, yeah, if I can't afford that snake, then I didn't buy it, you know. Or I would try and fi I'd try and free up some capital by selling something else in order to you know I would try that but I'd never go to the bank and say like hey I need 50 grand to buy this snake first of all the bank would be like [laughter]

>> are you sure about that?

>> I have actually heard Canadian tales of such things. I don't think

>> blink place if you're being forced [laughter] to do this. Right.

>> Right. Yeah. Exactly.

>> Yeah. But uh but no, I'm I more meant like um uh I don't know. I would call it like capital expenditures, but if you needed an AC unit or you wanted to have a line of credit for when the time came, you know, if you had a building or a property or a facility or or things like that.

>> Yeah. So, the building again was cash. I saved up until we could do it, till we could swing it, then built it. Uh in order to not have to take a line of credit, I did a lot of the work ourself. Oh, nice. Nice.

>> So, that was a brutal summer and had to learn a lot about how to build a building, but yeah,

>> we uh we got through it and uh luckily I had some buddies that know what they're doing, so that uh that helped out quite a bit. [laughter]

>> Um

>> good way. We got through it. Is the building standing? It's good.

>> It's good. It's good.

>> Exist. Yeah. All right. Good.

>> It's still good. Everything still works. Um floor's not lifting. Like, actually, we did a pretty good job. So,

>> uh yeah. No, that that worked out really well. But yeah, I guess just I had a credit I have a had a business credit card. Um I don't in the states yet because I'm still waiting for

>> So I What a what a This is just like stuff you don't expect when you move. But we got we came down

>> like the WD40 can. What where is this? How do I do this?

>> Yeah. So, they we came down and we immediately go apply for our social security number, right? You have to go in for this appointment and you meet with somebody and they talk to you and okay, here's all our paperwork. You're legal. Yes, everything's good.

>> And my wife got hers in like 10 days, like not even. And I was like, "Oh, sick. Mine will be here anytime." And then weeks go by and another week goes by and now we're into Christmas and nothing's in. And first week of January, I'm like, "Okay, what's going on? Where's mine?" And I you call the SSA, Social Security Administration, and you're on hold for 7 hours. And then

>> and then they're like, "You just have to keep waiting. Click." And I'm like,

>> "Are you [ __ ] kidding me?" Like that's what you know, it's like that kind of phone call where you're just like, "Oh, if it doesn't come in, um, you can make another appointment or you can just keep waiting." And I was like,

>> finally I just kind of got like a little like

>> set up and was just like, "I'm just going to the office."

>> And I showed up at the office and was like, "Hey, I I did this. I like I need this to like operate in the United States. This is

>> You're gonna need to eat." Yeah. [clears throat] And uh they were like, "Oh, hang on." I went in with like 5 minutes to close. And they were super nice. They brought me in to the back. They like sat me down, looked at the file, and they had put in on there's a thing called an I94, which is like your admission number to the US, right? And they had put it in an extra digit so it didn't line up.

>> Yeah.

>> But no one called me and told me that nobody fl it was just in like limbo.

>> That's You have to go find that stuff. Yeah.

>> So I brought them the I94 when I came in and they he was like, "Oh, hang on. That's a nine-digit code. this is a 10-digit code. And I was like, what? And he he fixed it. And then he hit enter and it's like, oh yeah, it's verified 5 to 10 days. So that was on Thursday. So I'm waiting for it still. But without my SSN, I can't get a driver's license. I can't get a business bank account. So I have to run everything. This is where it gets all confusing. I have to run everything through my personal account. Then

>> reconcile it all.

>> Exactly. Reconcile it back into the business account. So it's like a it's kind of messy right now. But that's why I called the accountant right away and was like, "This is what's going to have to happen just in order for me to stay alive." And

>> y

>> um yes, but he he's he he's like, "This is fine. You're good. I should have my SSN might be in the mailbox now. I didn't check today." Um but once I can do that, I can open my business account and then everything's smooth. Then it's like personal, business, and stuff. And it makes it makes life a lot easier. And I don't have to constantly go through and be like

>> Target. Did I buy something for the business at Target or did I buy a turkey? You know, like I don't, [laughter] you know, it's

>> the turkey was for the water monitor, man. Just [laughter] all it all be right.

>> Yeah.

>> Uh what are uh what are some things that have that have improved? I have to think not you know dealing less with sightes you got to be getting inquiries through the I mean compared to what you were like the American market has to be like

>> it's insane it's

>> I know just personally well you helped me with it I mean it is challenging to get an animal from Toronto and I had really good help much less just like

>> you know I'm not sure how long it would have taken

>> it's just a big wait it's just a waiting game is really what it is it's not like the actual like shipment itself like the sighty stuff is not that card. Okay.

>> It's just when does the permit come in and that's all like the feds. So, it's just when does it come in? When do we get a break in the weather to ship? All that sort of stuff. Like as you get into Canada, like if you're into November, December, definitely January, February, March, those are like no goes for shipping.

>> Um, you can do it. Some guys do it. I I I've had some guys reach out and say, "Hey, I'm going to send a box out in February. Do you want to put stuff in it?" And I'm like, "No, no, I'll wait till April." It's just any any hiccups, you're you're freezing them.

>> Yeah.

>> Like if if it gets left on a tarmac in at Pearson,

>> it's it it has the potential to be minus 15,

>> right?

>> Like it's not like, you know, cold. Like you're in Minnesota.

>> Minnesota. Yeah. I mean, I'm north of Toronto here where I'm at,

>> right? So, it can be cold as [ __ ] in February and and

>> but you have you would have extra hands in the pot, so to speak, too, because you would have to send your animal to an exporter who's then going to put it in their own box who's going to send it to the importer who's going to unpack it and then redistribute it. No,

>> I don't send to a I was doing direct.

>> Oh, you were the Oh, you are the sides exporter.

>> Yeah. I do direct to the exporter.

>> They take the box, break it down, and they ship out. Yeah. So, the only Yeah. So, the only time like like today was in the 40s, believe it or not, which is incredible for this time of year, but by this time next week, the high is going to be seven and that's, you know, nothing.

>> I think we're going to [laughter] be like 65s, something like that.

>> I love I like [laughter] Yeah. Yeah. Well, the problem is like I'll I'll go to It's weird because I'll have to go to ship to let's say California, but it's going through Indie.

>> Yeah. Right. And so Indy's cold,

>> right?

>> Like when I shipped to you, I was like, we remember we were talking like Indy's going to be really cold. And then I checked the hub and it was Fort Worth.

>> When you told me that, I was like, that thing is going to Memphis. I'm like, I'm not going to tell Will how to do his job. He knows what's up. Sure. [ __ ] It went to Fort I was like, I've never heard of a package going to Fort Worth from Atlanta. It won't go to Memphis. It'll go to Fort Worth and then to [laughter]

>> Who knows? Who knows, man? I don't know. I just sort of But yeah, so like as far as like things that have changed for the better, uh definitely definitely the availability to ship. You guys don't have any idea how good you've got it in the States.

>> Well, and it's got to be a mental like the mental gate for the buyer. They used to say, "Hey, Will's banging animals, but he's in Canada. I'm going to look around." Now it must be Yeah. Must be people going I mean the inquiry tomorrow.

>> Yeah. had the inquiry spike for you.

>> Yes. December. Uh so December was our first month here and it was the best month I had in 2025.

>> Oh, good.

>> Yeah, it was really good. Um

>> so yeah, I'm I'm excited for where things are going. Um I Another thing that's changed for the better is like I haven't had to wipe snow off my truck once, [laughter] you know, not one time. Right.

>> Today I was in shorts. Like it wasn't like it's cool, you know? I some people still look at me like, "Bro, what the [ __ ] It's cold." And I'm [laughter] like, "You, no, it's not."

>> Yeah. Like, it's fine.

>> It's like It's like a sweater, shorts, and shoes. You're You're good. And uh yeah, so that's been that's been really good. Um being uh you know, Bob's probably 20ish, not even 15 minutes from my place.

>> Oh, cool.

>> So, like having that like, you know, hey, you got anything to ship out today? You want to go grab, you know, like that sort of thing. You got any extra deli cups? You got any? Ah, [ __ ] man. This thermostat's not working. You have a spare thermostat. Like, all that kind of stuff. Yeah.

>> Super super nice.

>> Right. Right.

>> Super nice to have.

>> Um, yeah. What else has changed for the better? I mean, lots, man. Lots. Just the We're just the the advance. It's We're still in like kind of like the honeymoon phase.

>> It's still got to be so new. Like every day it's still got to be like, "Okay, I'm I'm figuring it out. I'm learning. I can get to like certain spots without my GPS now. I'm like, "Okay, I know where we are." But if I have to like take like a side road, I'm like, "Uhoh. Oh shit."

>> Like the first the first like two weeks, uh, if my phone died, I had like a panic attack. I'm like, I can't get home.

>> Oh yeah.

>> I don't know how to get home. And my phone died. I was going to drop off sheds to UPS and I was like, okay, how do I get I had it on my phone. I wasn't paying attention. And then my phone died and I'm on the interstate. And I'm like, "Oh shit." And then my GPS goes just goes blank. And I'm like, "Uh." So I get off at this next exit, find a Best Buy, and go into the Best Buy. And I like plug I unplug their model phone and like plug mine in. [laughter]

>> That's the most resourceful thing I've ever heard. You display and just

>> Yeah. just like unplugged the phone and plugged mine in and just like sat there.

>> Best life hack right there.

>> And just sat there for like 10 minutes, turned it on, was like, "Sheds will go in another day. I'm going home." Uh yeah. So yeah, but now I'm uh now I'm starting to like explore little, you know, my web's getting a little bit bigger. I can go to FedEx in Atlanta without GPS now.

>> So

>> yeah, pretty uh pretty happy with that. That's pretty cool.

>> Dale brings up a good point. You you could also have bought a car charger and best

>> Okay, so I have a car charger always like I always have one and we had just bought them, but I literally like took it out of the truck to like come upstairs to charge it and then I was in, you know, and I had this old charger and I was like it was like one that I had plugged in. It was working and but it it was such an old charger that it takes seven days I guess to give my phone enough charge to turn on. Hey, what are you doing? Get out of there. Get go. Um, so it just wasn't turning on and I sat in a parking lot for like probably 45 minutes. It was like, okay, this isn't going to work. And I just kind of like drove around corner and then all of a sudden like Best Buy, like the big like, no way. I went to Best Buy. [laughter] I was going to go like I was legit about to go into like a Target and just ask someone or like a Home Depot and be like, "Hey, can I use your charger for like five minutes just so I can go home?"

>> Right. And yeah, that was but anyways, we figured that out and it was uh [laughter] it was uh not it wasn't so bad. U so there's there's been a couple like little funny funny things that I've I've had to do, but it's uh

>> but lots of uh lots of uh good lots of really like actually like overall very happy with the decision to come down.

>> Um obviously miss my folks. Uh, but I we talk to we talk enough, you know, I talked to them enough and it's been good. It's been uh

>> good. [clears throat]

>> It's been really good. Yeah.

>> Good, man. Good. And I mean, I'm guessing I don't know this I I don't know you well enough to say this, but I'm guessing that you and I are at a point in our lives if you wanted to hop a flight from Atlanta, you can. You have the means to do that and it's convenient to get to Toronto and all of that. So,

>> yeah, if I want to go home, I could. We decided to not go home for Christmas. We said, "No, we're going to stick it down here. We're going to stay down here."

>> Uh my mom actually, so my wife's mom came in last just before Christmas, so two weeks ago now.

>> Um she came in for Hey, stay with us from like You guys don't do Boxing Day here.

>> There's no I know we talked Yeah. last time. We

>> We call it boxing.

>> Yeah, we 26th through New Year's. She went back on like the 2nd. And then my mom comes in uh on this Friday. We pick her up. I think she's staying four or five days and then we have a week and then Adam and my dad are coming down and then we're going vending sear. It's just like dece January is like a busy month. So

>> yeah, nice.

>> Yeah,

>> it's nice to have like uh the refreshments from, you know, like refuel a little bit with the family and and Yeah, that's cool.

>> Yeah. Like I haven't seen dad since uh he had gone away for a month. He went on a month vacation um before I left. like the month before I left and [laughter] I had left before so I haven't seen him since like mid o would have been like mid o beginning of October

>> and like it's weird because I I used to see him every single day like he lives across the road

>> so like

>> but yeah no it's been it's been good it's been it's been good my wife got a job she's actually uh

>> good

>> she's she's um in Raleigh right now doing training and all that sort of stuff

>> Oh wow uh

>> and then in March she's got to go to Spain for two weeks weeks to do some more training. So, it's uh I was kind of like, damn, what job is this?

>> I was going to say it sound like a pretty good uh gig. Not bad, huh?

>> Yeah. So, she's going to Spain for a couple weeks. Okay. And then Yeah, man.

>> It's just like we're just taking it as it comes to us, you know? We're just kind of like

>> whatever life throws at us, we're like, "Okay, let's roll with it." Well, and you can't really like legitimately like plan every like you're not going to ever know like, "Okay, I've arrived." There's not going to be a binary, okay, now I'm done. I'm here. I've arrived. Like, it's it's going to be a process. You're just going to go through and experience everything. Yeah, man.

>> Just like, man, there's just like little stuff like when we went to go pick up my my girlfriend or my my god, my wife's [laughter]

>> to say, you got one of those, too, huh?

>> Whoops. Yeah. My wife's uh mom from the airport. We're on the way to go pick her up and we're driving through the through our town here and I I was like, "What's that noise?" And I'm like, "Must be the road." It's like click click click click click click. I'm like, "What the [ __ ] is that?" And I wheel my window down and I'm like, "No, that's my truck doing that." Like, "What is that?" I wheel over. There's a giant like washer nail stuck into my truck.

>> Just jumped into the tire

>> every time. Click click click click click click. But it's Sunday afternoon and everything's closed and I can't find a tire shop to take it out and finally I find this tire shop and they they put my chuck up on the thing, pull it, do the like fix the tire. Don't even charge me. Don't charge me a dime. No, they're like, "Welcome to the area." I told them I was I'm here from Canada. Like I don't know where I'm going. Blah blah blah. And they were just like, "Oh, welcome to the area." Blah blah. They're like, "Don't worry about it. We'll get it up on the They didn't charge me a thing." I was like, "Damn." I was like, "Next time I need tires, I'm coming to you guys."

>> Yeah. You know,

>> I mean, that's a smart move on their part because that's exactly what you're going to say is like, I know exactly where I'm going to go when I need time.

>> Oh, no question. They're just Yeah, everyone down here has been super super welcoming and very like accommodating.

>> Good, man.

>> It's been great. It's [laughter] been awesome.

>> Good. Uh, what if we let's uh let's switch to snakes. What do you think?

>> Yeah. Yeah. Always. What uh what makes just philosophically uh what makes a great snake in 2026?

>> Good question. Uh

>> yeah,

>> that's a that's a good question. I mean, I always revert back to pattern and contrast,

>> right? But that's not necessarily true because there's lots of stuff that's low contrast that's very very pretty.

>> So, I don't know. I think there's like a certain amount like you know like with

>> you you're you were in the restaurant business, right? So like with food

>> Yeah.

>> There's a

Certain thing is too much salt.

Of course.

Then there's there's a certain thing is not enough.

Oh yeah.

Right. It's like it's like finding that like balance is what makes like a a a like perfect dish. I I swear to God, my sier and food training, it translates perfect to what you're talking and I've thought about that a lot and I I rarely bring it up because it's so like niche, but yeah, you need your fat, you need acid, you need salt, you might need aromatics like pepper or thyme or or whatever.

And and yeah, I you said uh pattern and contrast. I I throw color in. I say color, pattern, and contrast. Those are like my three sliding scales. And yeah, continue on. Sorry, I'm I'm like really you want kind of like a ven diagram, you know, like the circles, you have like pattern, color, contrast. Something that's in the middle is like your winner. Something that hits two is very good. Something that's just one is like, okay, I know I can work with this.

If you're not if you're not hitting any of them, probably move on from that. Um [laughter]

Right. You got your normal that Yeah, exactly. Right.

There's something going on with Yeah, you might you might.

But like what makes a good snake in in 2026, man? It's such a like what do we consider a good snake?

Right?

Do we consider like, oh, this is like the next like big project and like it's going to take us all five years to to see any results from this or are we talking about like that is just a gorgeous looking animal and like I don't care what the genes are. I don't care. Like, it doesn't matter what it is. That thing's super pretty. We're We I feel like we we uh have been in and I guess I don't know if we've come out of maybe we're still in it and we probably always will be in some ways, but I feel like we can't we we were in this like super I call it the word salad. Like we were in this word salad of jeans and the more words that could be in there, the better we were, right? Like this long.

Yeah. We're going to get rich cuz it's 99 other things. Um, and it's interesting that the very first thing you said was all about the visual color, pattern, contrast. This is nothing to do with what's buried beneath or this or that. Is it just goodlooking? And do you think the market is is changing and appreciating that now or realizing that hey, you still got to deliver at the end of the day? What are your thoughts?

I think at the like I guess it just depends what where in the market like so one of the things like I talked to Bob about this the other day. Uh everybody wants to be Justin, right? Everybody wants to make those high high ticket animals just like the the super cutting edge stuff because don't get me wrong it's exciting. It's exciting. It's fun. I understand it. I want to do that too. That's how I built my collection is around that like cutting edge as much as I can be um try pushing the envelope and trying stuff that hasn't been done and you know really building like multi-recessives and that whole thing.

But like at the end of the day that is is great but there's so much room for people in this industry to like you don't have to spend half a million dollars to start your collection. You don't have to be doing like there's lots of guys who make really gorgeous stuff. In fact, most of the stuff that I buy now is more um more like I just like that thing is beautiful. Like that's I want that snake. Not I want those genes. I want that snake because I think that snake can reproduce itself or reproduce other like variants of it. And I I think people need to start doing I mean, who knows? I could be going down the wrong wrong road maybe. I don't know. But I think that that I think that truth cures both because you nailed it. Whatever's in that snake, assuming it's genetic, you can reproduce. So, if it's beautiful when it wins, you're going to get whatever's in it. It almost doesn't matter what's in it.

If I mean, um uh shoot, no, the one that you sent me was from from uh Mark. Uh yeah, Antoine at DPR had two other scramblers that I didn't even ask him what I just I was walking down the aisles at CRB and I was like it just stopped. I said what are those things? Yep. And I saw the price. I said is that Canadian or American? He goes [laughter] I think he even said whichever. I was like I don't care. I can afford I'll take them both at whichever price it is, you know. And he did a nice job. But it's the same kind of I was like I actually don't care what's in it because I can re I want to know so I know what the ingredients are and how to go about doing it but I want to use that as the base and that excites me seeing that as a base that I can add to.

Yeah. I think like the industry is going to head, this is just my prediction, over the next decade, maybe maybe shorter than that, but I just think over the next decade we're going to kind of like recessive ourselves out and I I I don't mean that that recesses are bad. Not at all. I just think that we are trying to stack so much recessive and like that people really like don't look at incomplete dominance the right way where like you can treat incomplete dominance the exact same way you can treat a recessive and super project right and there's so many with good supers like there's so many super gravel super hurricane white lace uh super blackhead stuff like it just goes on and on and on and I look at a lot of the everyone's like DJ anticcl them work on them myself beautiful beautiful animals I'm not knocking those projects whatsoever but when I see the whole market like that's where we're going I'm always kind of like what's what's right over here what's over here that everyone's missing you know

Because a white lace super orange dream Super mandarin. There's no recessive in there. I bet you that's a gorgeous snake.

I bet that's an all right snake.

I bet you that's insanely cool looking.

Yeah.

And you can build on that. That's just as hard to hit as a DGA proposal.

That's triple homozygous. Yeah. Yep.

And with shed testing sort of leveling the playing field.

Every every recessive now is like people can argue all day about this gene's recessive or it's not. It's like it's het or it's homozygous. Zero, one or two. That's it. Zero copies, one copy or two. That's right.

And so when we look at the recessive stuff, like I can't necessarily pick out a hat clown with my naked eye, but I can test for it. And so what's essentially what that's done is leveled the playing field with let's say a hurricane. I can pick out I don't have to test the hurricane most the time. Sometimes you still do, but I don't normally have to test the hurricanes. But it because now I'm able to just test the clown. It it definitely like makes me go like, well, would I rather have the would I rather work the clown as a base or the G-Stripe or the albino or whatever it is, or would I rather work the Super Hurricane as a base? And that's where I'm starting to be like, okay, maybe I decide to drop uh I don't know, let's give an example, Genetic Stripe. Let's say I drop genetic stripe out of my collection, but I start to as I'm doing that, I'm replacing them with just white lace combos or super mandarin combos. Like, it's not necessarily that I have to have every single uh every single snake has to have a recessive in it.

And I think yeah, super trick, super hurricane, whatever, whatever you want to call them. um like you don't like maybe maybe I decide super hurricane, super trick, super blackhead and I just have one recessive in there. So like maybe it's super hurricane hypo combos or super hurricane DG combos and now I start adding to that. I think what's happened in the industry is we've gotten so like like shoot for the stars so like we're going we're trying to like like in 2026 we're trying to operate in 2036 like we're trying to go so advanced so quickly that we are missing so much of just the desert ghost clown combos or just the DG combos even clown which has been worked by the masses for a decade or more.

Right.

Still every year we see new clown combos that we're like oh [ __ ] that's

Yeah. How did we miss that. Yeah. Whoa. This has been sitting right there to do. Yeah.

And I know it's very objective but most people say well it'll look better with with uh hypo or it'll look better with desert ghost but I think what people need to start doing is like recognizing what each gene does and maybe that comes with time and experience and hatching out hundreds and hundreds of clutches you start to like okay I'm starting to see a pattern pattern here.

But

Recognizing that, okay, let's say we say like an orange dream mojave spotnose, right? Or orange dream mojave spotnose clown. We'll just use that example. Which one, Desert Ghost or Hypo is the one? Because some people will just pick a fence and just be like, Desert Ghost is better or hypo is better? And I'm like, okay, Desert Ghost or Hypo is better at what?

At what? That's the real question.

That specific combo is orange with a lot of blushing. Hypo is going to lend a hand to that much much more like I think much better than Desert Ghost will. But then when we talk about like Batman's where there's like a lot of contrast and rigid contrast instead of contrast, Desert Ghost is going to lend its hand better to the Batman than Hypo will. It's just like you have to learn and like almost go back to that like artistry of of this rather than just like the the gene mash thing. Um and go back to the like I'm going to be selective about what I pair because I'm I'm aiming for a specific result.

Right. Yeah.

And I think I think the uh the chef's pantry applies again. Just cuz you got 50 herbs in there doesn't mean you put 50 herbs in a soup.

Yeah. You don't just dump them all in, right?

You're going to pick and choose. And like even to extend the analogy to your point, you might try a soup with a new herb and go that's really good or that that's not what I thought.

Right. Next time, you know what? It needs a little bit more salt. It needs it needs one more copy of lace or it needs, you know, and that will set it off. It's there's a lot of trial and error in this business and it's, you know, you just have to try things. Don't be afraid to to try new things. I mean, [ __ ] man. Justin, like I I mean, don't get me wrong, Justin makes incredible stuff. Like, top breeder in the in the industry for a reason, right?

But he literally had a t-shirt back in the day that said follow your own road. Like, he he sold that shirt to people. Yet, people were still like, "What'd you make this year? Can I get those ingredients to remake that?

Yeah.

And I like I always looked at that was like follow do your own thing. Justin didn't become who he is or build the business he has by following anybody else. He just did his thing. He had his creative element and and he you know took care of his animals and maintained the collection properly and and ran he did all the things. Yeah.

He did everything. He hit all those he hit every aspect of the business. But

Yeah, I just think that there's so much out there that no one is touching.

And like if you said to me right now, hey, I've got a DJI clown or I've got a white lace super hurricane Super Mandarin. I'd pay more for that than I would for the

Yeah.

Um Okay. So, let's leave the philosophical for a minute. What are the things uh what are the things that are on your horizon? It's the time of year where uh I take it that you're pairing and that you've already made uh pairing plans and that you've got you've got you know you're sitting back going like this a little bit. What's what's exciting for you? Or maybe you're still maybe you're praying instead of rubbing.

Yeah. I swear. I [laughter] swear. Yeah, I swear like this. Yeah.

Um Right now I fixed that real quick. That works. I'm focused on uh white lace puzzle stuff.

Um we should see some of that. Uh this year I'm I I kind of took a step back from shooting at triples and was like I'm going to start like layering on DG Clown in a more meaningful way.

Um so we should I'm hoping to see like uh what's one of the good ones? Chocolate Blackhead. No, it's a blackhead hurricane spotnose. DJ clown. Okay,

For that kind of stuff.

Uh hopefully some super hurricane DJ clowns. Maybe some hurricane DJ clown pides.

Um again, obviously I'm shooting for those quads still. DJ's antic clown pides. Not a good shot, but a much better shot than quad hat to quad hat. It's a visual triple hat to a double visual double hat. Two two pairings.

Okay, nice. Yeah.

Um what are some other cool ones? some of the puzzle stuff I'm really excited about.

Um, and then obviously I'm breeding with, you know, knowing that shed testing is there and

Of course, right?

So, trying to get some more instead of using, so this year I could make, well, I could make I I could pair multiple clutches for DG Hypo Clown.

Um, but again, I see so many people doing that and I have a much better male to use the following season that I don't know if I just want to make like OD yellow belly spot-nose DJ Hypocon. It's a great snake, don't get me wrong. Amazing. Amazing. It would look very good, but I think I can do something more with those females. So, I'm I'm pairing uh a chocolate DG double hat hypo puzzle boy. I have uh I kept three of those males, so I'm running three males this year.

Um, well, I've done it before where I keep one and he doesn't breed and he doesn't get going and

These all three of them got the size and all three of them are locking now and I'm like, well, I'm going to use them.

We're going to party.

Uh, even if it's locking the same female, you know, just maybe one doesn't want to pair her, the next one will, you know,

There's there's lots of situations that like that, too. But I'm using them into a lot of the DG uh double hat hypo clown combo girls that I have to if I hit the the DG hypo and it happens to be double hat puzzle clown great. But my real focus is to try and make those DG hypo combos that are hat puzzle or hat clown and they can kind of go either way.

Uh instead of having the like 40 bins dedicated to those projects, I can shrink that down to 20 bins for that because I have DG hypo in puzzle and in all the overlap, right?

You can go either way with it.

Um how do you how do you we talked a little bit about um you know thinking about playing I thought that was a really astute point whether anybody agrees with it or not. That's the right way to think about things of of you know stark contrast with DG and sort of blush blushing contrast with a hypo. I thought that was a really thoughtful thing.

How do you think in those lines?

Uh not not related whatsoever to hypo and DG but with puzzle puzzle can be uh puzzle can get run over. We've seen that in different in different ways. It it can be it can become very very nuanced and and uh sometimes it feels like the result isn't what do they what do they say? the juice isn't worth the squeeze or something like that. But then there's other times then there's other times where it's it's just phenomenal. What are some like rules that you've learned or that you've implemented for yourself when it comes to puzzle or that you think about with puzzle?

Um with puzzle one of my like sounds crazy but always like spot nose and leopard like those two genes in puzzle once you combo them up like the the flat spotnose puzzle it's quite visual you can see quite easy to tell. you could tell them in the egg right away. And leopard puzzles get that like bold pattern and they're kind of stripey.

Um, but once you start to like stack the leopard and spot-nose combos, you get some really really cool like um like lateral patterning.

Okay.

So, you can like take that like stripe from the leopard and then if you let's say put um what was the combo I put into that?

It was a leopard uh and I think it was enti and yellow belly. and it like took that stripe and like split it. So, it wasn't vertical down the snake anymore. There was still some lateral striping, but the stripes on the back broke sideways almost like a G-stripe clown. And so, it made like this really cool like zigzaggy look on the back and then striped black sides.

Um, and I like I've seen enough with Puzzle where I'm like, "Okay, this combo works now. We can like build upon that combo."

Right. Uh,

It's kind of interesting because if we again the way I think of it sometimes with with puzzle is you got to watch it because it can be subtle, but leopard and spotnose are two of the most striking kind of like dark, firm, high contrast, very powerful. I never see spot nose and I never look at a spot nose or a leopard and go, is that in there or not? I don't know. Like you know it when it's there, right?

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, you're going to know it.

You're never going to mistaken it unless it's a blackhead. Then you might um but uh yeah, so I'm just like playing around with puzzle stuff. Uh I like to do some chocolate spotnose puzzle combos. Uh white lace.

Um, yeah, Dale, dude, I love enti puzzle. I love it. I don't know what people I don't think enough people have seen enti puzzle combos. People have seen enti puzzle or pastel enti puzzle and they're like, uh yeah, it doesn't do much. But you need to come and see. I have a firefly yellow belly entie spotnose puzzle breeder male and dude it's like one the one of the things I love about puzzle is they don't brown out like clown does.

Right. It's like a very opposite thing like puzzles hold that color really well which is probably why they lend themselves so well to desert ghost whereas like you know how DG clowns get that like dirty flecking in the scales on a straight DG clown from what I've seen with DG puzzles mine haven't done that like especially pastel DG puzzles like yellow and black. That's it. There's no like milky coloring to them.

Well, Pastel is doing great things in Puzzle, too. Like Pastel's making I mean Puzzle's making pastel cool again, man.

I mean, dude, same with lace. Same with lace. Like I've made some lace pastel combos that I'm like, "Holy [ __ ] these [laughter] are nice." And people come over and I, you know, there's lots of non-pastel stuff here for people to look at and drool over. But I'll tell you, dude, like I got to say, like 80% of the time, if I'm like, "Pick your top five snakes, two of the top five that they pick are pastel lace combo." [laughter]

Yeah.

Almost all the time. Out of the top five out of everything that's here, I'm like, "Pick your top five." And immediately they're like, "Where's that pastel cypress lace?" And she's gorgeous. like she's she's like a 30,000 g female and is like

Looks like a desert ghost. Like you

Looks better than that combo would in desert ghost because it doesn't

The yellow doesn't pale out. It doesn't like give you that like that milky color that pastel DGs can do.

Yeah. It's almost just a void instead of a color.

It's like it's like vibrant. And that's only the one copy. So, this year I'm breeding a lace puzzle to her, trying to make that with a white lace

Pastel cypress lace puzzle.

Um, uh, what else am I doing this year? I mean, there's so much, right? Like, I think I've paired so far 140 females. So, uh, yeah, there's a bunch of stuff that's been paired now.

Whether that all goes [laughter]

Yeah. Well, I don't know. Yeah, you gota you got to start it and track it. Okay. How many uh you know what actually um I'm gonna speaking of a little bit of finances. I'm gonna pay some bills really quick, but when I come back, audience, don't go anywhere. Uh we'll we'll dig into the um uh maybe some white lace stuff. I'm curious to to hear like your whole like experience with the whole saga of lace and then now that we're sort of back at at level ground with the testing and whatnot and knowing what's lace and what's not, where do we go from here?

Um, but then also I guess maybe maybe we'll go all the way back to the beginning. I'd like to hear some more like of the logistics of uh how many females you're pairing, what your season looking like, and then

You gave a pretty good rundown, but if you got 140 pairs, you're going to have some 800 hatchlings. Your your workflow is going to change a little bit here coming up. So,

You don't pair 140 and get 140, right?

No, I know. But you get 90. Okay. Yeah, 90 is okay. I can deal with 90. Yeah.

140. Oh boy. Oh boy. Yeah. [laughter]

All right. Uh guys, uh first off, I just want to thank the audience for being here. Thanks to all of the advertising partners as well. Uh I just encourage you if you want to check somebody out or look for somebody to support, check them out. They literally keep the lights on. They keep me coming back every week. And these are people in our industry investing in our industry. And like I say, uh, all proper Royals live content is now, uh, adree, uh, thanks to these great brands. So, uh, shipping, it's cold out there. There's a lot going on. You heard Will and I talk about it.

Um, and if you're not comfortable shipping, call the team at Redline. There's a phone number. You can get a human. They are reptile keepers. They sell the equipment to help you ship properly. Check it out. The, uh, user interface online is great.

Uh, use the promo code proper five. get yourself an extra five bucks off of your next shipping label.

We also talked a lot about shedesting, shedtesting.com. You're going to hear the name phenome.com.

Um if you haven't already, you're going to hear it a lot. That [clears throat] is the new company.

Uh shedesting is now a part of Phenome. It's a bigger uh uh bigger entity. I did a whole episode on it with the team from Phenome, but uh Charlie is still running the shed testing. He is still uh heading up the research and development of new tests. They just released a mandarin test, the NR mandarin test.

Um so they are still uh expanding with research and development. They've recently dropped the prices. They've expanded the uh lab capabilities and expanded the automation so there's far less variables, less humans touching at each step, which means less mistakes at each step. And that is better science. And he's able to get you the uh results faster. You could do a 10 test recessive panel.

$85. That's $8.5 a test. Listen to what Will and I were just talking about. You the stuff is between is behind an $85 answer now. So go check that out. That's shedesting.com. You can use the promo code proper10. Get yourself 10% off two orders. You can order as many tests as you want per order and you can use the code twice.

Sund Dog Serpents. That's Sarah and Josh down in Orlando, Florida. I've been doing business with them for a long time. I used to vend with them on the Repticon uh circuit and actually I got some uh snakes coming up from them uh for tomorrow while I got this uh nice uh this nice weather. I encourage you to check out what they're doing. Speaking of puzzle, they've got some uh puzzle hatchlings that are for sale. Hypo uh chocolate stranger clown combos if I'm not mistaken as well. They also work uh TSK clown um combo projects and have ingredients for that. So check out Sarah and Josh. I've again I've done business with them. I continue to do business with them. They're wonderful people.

Uh Reagan Renee Royal Pythons. Check out Reagan Renee.com. You don't have to put Royal Pythons at the end of it. Reagan Renee.com.

Uh that is Charlie Ryan. He's over in New Jersey.

Uh couple things about his website. Everything on the website ships for free. You buy it in the website, it's free shipping. You want a further discount? Proper 10. That'll get you 10% more off of it. He's also got these super cool analytical add-ons. He he deals with a lot of data analysis and production in his day job and he's started to apply that to his website. So, shed testing calculators. Does it make sense to test your clutches or not? What what is the potential and likely return? Same thing with various uh pairing combinations. what are the likely not only the outcomes, but there's a financial component as well if you choose to enter uh that information. It's all free. It's all there on uh reagan.com. As far as the snakes and the projects you'll find there, uh kryptons, dgggstripe, um candy pied clowns, all in single, double, and triple combos and and various pairings of of those jeans and projects. So, check out reagan renee.com.

Keeper Kane, that is a YouTube channel from Kane Fritzwallis and his wife Michelle. It documents their uh sort of lifeeping uh animals. They breed ball pythons. They keep big snakes. He's got retix and BMS, uh aquatics, tarantulas. It's all documented there. All guaranteed to be familyfriendly. You can watch it at work safely. Now, you might need to do your job, but you you're allowed. You know, you're not going to get fired for the content that is there.

Uh that's on YouTube and uh Kane's become a good friend in the industry and we do uh business together as well, but you might see him around various Patreons.

Uh Keeper Kane, go check out that YouTube channel.

Last but not least is BNS Reptilia. That is Chris Shel.

Uh he is over in Pennsylvania. uh reptilia because he deals in ball pythons but also blood pythons, locality boas, uh colubras of all shapes and sizes, pituous, the bullsnakes, the pine snakes, and he's got the education and the uh uh legal knowledge of whether you're allowed to own uh those animals where you live in your locality. He'll help you with that. He'll make sure everything's legal. Chris and I vend uh Tinley together in October uh March when he usually sits out, but sometimes he sends me some stuff. If you're interested in anything from Chris and you want to pick it up at Timley, let me know. Go check out BNS Reptilia.

Thank you so much, audience. I appreciate you being here. And uh we got Will Marose. How about this? Brian Gundy last week, Will Marose this week. Pretty good kickoff to the new year. Will, thanks for being here, man. Thanks for uh sitting through the ad promos. Keeps the lights on. They're good people. I got to give them a little love, you know.

So,

Yeah, man. You s

I appreciate [clears throat] the patience there.

Um, what' you make of the whole lace thing, man? And and I see a I see an analogy to scrambler, man. There's all of a sudden lots of scrambler. I feel like there's going to be a lace moment for Scrambler. Do you know? Does that make sense what I'm getting out there?

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, lace was one of those things that like

It was so hot, right? Everybody wanted it because it looked so good.

And the combos were were incredible. White lace combos were great.

Um, and I think there was a a maybe a a tendency for people to jump the gun with lace and just breathe.

See what we want to see, right? Like we we find what we look for and that can get bad sometimes. Yeah.

And Yeah. Like if you want something bad enough, your eyes are going to tell you it's that's what it is. And doesn't matter how long you're in this industry, you can try and be as objective as you can. And you're going to have those moments where you're like, I hit it. I hit it. And then it sheds and you're like, [ __ ] no, I didn't. Yeah. I've learned to not [laughter] send pictures in the egg. I've I've just learned like, "Oh, dude, look at this. I hit this." Cuz everything looks like a [ __ ] DG clown in the egg.

That's true.

And then it sheds and you're like people are like, "Hey, where's that snake?" I'm like, "Don't worry about it. Don't [laughter] don't ask. It's over there. Yeah.

Yeah. [laughter] Yeah. It's not a DG obviously.

Um but lace uh lace is a I mean I love the project. I love the gene.

Um I don't look at lace. I mean I guess I kind of do as its own project.

Um but absolutely I think I you know what that scrap that I do look at lace as it own project. You can make you can run with lace for years and years and years and years and make a ton of beautiful snakes.

Um uh but I think a lot of people were just sort of like, "Oh, it's a little bit brighter. It has to be lace." Right. Where

Right. I'll I'll tell you I did sell I the only one that I'm aware of is I sold one snake that I thought was a lace yellow belly and the buyer thought was a lace yellow belly and when they bred it it didn't end up being a lace yellow belly. They raised it from a baby to a female. Obviously take care of them. That's not a that's not an issue.

Right. Yeah. I I I would say that I was pretty good with being objective on on lace.

Uh because I hate being unsure on something. I'm much more inclined to be like that's a yellow belly. If it's lace, you got lucky, you know? I'm much more inclined to underm underpromise than overpromise.

Uh that specific example, we both thought it was. So, it is what it is. It h it's going to happen. And you know, if you haven't misided a snake, you haven't bred enough of them. You know, it's just the reality.

Um, so it's uh it's one of those one of those things, but I think a lot of people like were just like, "This is late. This is lace. This is lace." Cuz I was seeing during that lace heyday, I was like like lace should jump out at you. Like lace should like after a few meals, you should be like, "That's bright." Like that's really bright. And there's like

Bright and then there's like lace bright. It's a different kind of bright. It's a different like

It almost has that DG kind of like shimmer. It's not shimmer is not the right word, but like a

They're clean. They're clean and they're bright.

Um, so I I can just say from my experience working with it, I have held stuff back to three or 400 grams to like confirm before we had a test just to grow stuff up. I've held stuff back that I have been unsure of and then when I got here sent all the sheds to Charlie and he's like yeah these are lace and I'm like

Yes you know like

Oh yeah that's do that easier now in Canada you have societies for sheds too right

Loan his ass up well I shouldn't say that there's lots of guys a lot more than I have but I've sent a bunch of sheds

Right. He he's doing okay from you right

Yeah well I guess I have to pay him first right so I guess there's that I told him I don't I don't pay for negative results faults, right?

You're like, "Yeah, let me get the social security card. It's weird. It's delayed again." And oh, negative. Yeah, forget [laughter] that thing. Yeah.

No, Charlie's been Charlie's been great. It's uh that's So, yeah, I There's another one. Being able to shed test like now, you know, pack them up, ship them out, I have my results the following week. It's or sometimes that week.

I'm just cheap and I don't I don't pay for overnight shipping. I'm just I'm just like, "Ah, they'll get there."

Ah, they'll get there next Monday. It doesn't change. I'm not selling it this week anyway. So,

That's true. It doesn't change what's in the

Bag in the DNA

Really. If I know it now or I know it next week doesn't really change much. But I'll tell you when you get the email from him you're like, "Oh shit." You know, you're like you go into your like little I do a spreadsheet with him and I go into the spreadsheet and I'm like, "Oh, this is NOT HAT." LIKE, "NO, this one is hat." Yeah. You know,

Does he uh does he does he ever mess with you?

Uh, I mean, yeah, he told me that. Yeah, he does. [laughter] He was kind of [ __ ] with each other, right?

Because he he messes with me, I'll tell you that much, man.

Yeah, he he uh he was telling me that all his stuff's done through AI. And I was like I was like, "What?" And I like bought it for a second. He's like, "Yeah, [laughter] this is actually I'm like messaging him." He's like, "This is actually a chatbot. Thank you for messaging." And I was like, "Wait a second." And then [laughter] are you serious? Yeah. I'm just too gullible, I guess.

The best he ever got me was I sent a I sent a snake that was uh two generations removed from from Justin producing it. And uh I just ran a full recessive panel on it. And he he just out of the blue, he's like, "Hey, what were you testing for on that snake?" I said, "Well, it's a visual clown, but I just figured if there was any anyone I was gonna roll the dice on and see it was that." And he's like, "Oh, yeah, it it's it's visual clown. I was wondering why you tested for that." And I was like, "Oh, okay." I didn't hear anything. It was like four minutes. And then he goes, "And He monsoon." [laughter] I was like, "What? I'd already moved on. I was already back to scraping, you know. [laughter] Snake poo out of the corner of a tub."

No, that's been that's been really good to be able to shed test quickly, ship quickly, all that sort of thing.

But, uh, but lace, I mean, having the shed test for it certainly makes life easier. You don't have to guess.

[snorts]

And

That that's helpful. I know there's been a lot of misided l unfortunately,

But

Like guys like so I don't want to say that there's been like the majority of the misdeed laces are not like nefarious. It's not like oh

I don't think it's nefarious. I think people do get in over their heads and then it's hard to refund for most people to refund several thousand dollar which is the right thing to do. And that's where the the fall apart comes from.

So back in like like coming from like the way I had grew up in the industry

It was always like this is our best guess

This is always what this is the best I can tell you and so like that's kind of ingrained into me and shed testing has sort of changed that with the market where people are like I don't want your guess tell me if it is or not and like I I get that I guys I get it but with genes that are not shed testable people are doing their best. Now, was there people that were scamming? I don't know. I'm not saying there was. I'm not saying there wasn't. I just don't know. But I know a lot of the people that did have to refund Lace stuff. And did it wasn't an intentional I'm trying to screw somebody over. But people these days have like a very like knee-jerk like you [ __ ] me like ah they freak out like very quickly and it's like dude whoa whoa I didn't this isn't intentional. I'll I'll do my best to help you out here, but

Right

Like we got to kind of everybody should just kind of like take a break. We are guessing on like colors and patterns of snakes and like oh does this one have a couple little flames on it? That must be this. Like realistically if you like zoom out it's like we're all [ __ ] crazy for for doing what we're doing.

That that's true. There there's a very fair point there. Uh, and and I think I think what I saw with Lace, like there's exactly what you're talking about, but then there was also like this sort of pump and dump thing like we got to build this up

And that that is a little bit more nefarious. Even even if they believed it was lace, if they're just, you know, like I don't know. I feel like there's two different conversations that happened where it's like, hey, uh, you know,

4K and then they were 400.

Yeah. And and like I'll use I'll use Antoine again as a great example with the scrambler. He said, "You know what, Adam? Here's what the best that we understand it is. Here's what I see in front of me here. It's very simple. A super OD scrambler and super OD fire scrambler. I don't think there's anything else there. This is my best understanding and I want you to be comfortable with what you're buying." That's a great conversation. And no matter what scrambler ever turns out to be, according to DNA, I will never go back to him because that was an in a negative way. I'll go back to him 10 times to buy from him.

Right.

Versus some of these others that are like, "Get this now. This is what this is. This is," you know what I like? It's a different It's a different conversation. It's a different sale.

Yeah.

Right. It's a totally different sale, right?

Um and uh later, Dale, have a good one.

Thanks, Dale. Yeah, man.

Yeah, I and I I agree like I I I get the like this is exactly what it is. I you don't argue with me about it. Don't like question my ID. There's like a totally different like

Right

Tone there. And when that's the case, it's like, yeah,

Yeah, I'm going to come knock on your door at that point. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, exactly.

You know,

Um it's just hard, man. This this is not an there's no like guarantees in this business. Now, I will say hats better [ __ ] be heads, [laughter] right?

That's one that I'm like, yo, like you [ __ ] up if it's not. And like that's when I start to get like a little like did you screw me over intentionally here because was it from a visual? I I I drives me nuts when I see people post like such and such and such hat this and I know their pairing was pos and I know it was they showed me the pairing and then I see on Instagram this and this and this hat this and I'm like wait a second. Has that been tested already? Oh not yet. What the [ __ ] are you doing? you know, they can't even lie good about it then. Like that should be the easy answer. Yeah, of course it if you're gonna not I don't need to give a a class in lying, but I'm just like yeah, it's

You just like like hats are hats, man. It's it's it's black and white for me. Was it from a visual? Yes. Okay. It's a hat. There's nothing to, you know, discuss there. That's so shortsighted. Like for for an industry that or a world that we live in that really we need two, three, five, seven years to really get anywhere to make such a snap decision on a stupid hat to make a couple bucks when you have to live in that world for to do anything. You're either going to fail and you're going to quit or you're going to be around for a decade.

I think some people don't talk about that. Some people I'll deal with it later mentality, you know. Now, shed testing has stopped a lot of that. There's there's definitely, you know, if I buy something and I'm like un like I test it, people, you know, I have heard stories of people buying a snake that's supposed to be hat puzzle or hat hypo and they bring it in and then they test it just because they do. They have credit with Charlie or something and they test it for those jeans that they bought it for and it's missing the puzzle and they go back to that guy and he's like, "Well, why would you test it for puzzle? I told you it was head." He's like, "That that doesn't matter.

Wrong. That makes it worse, man." Yeah. [laughter] That that makes it worse, bro.

Either you're lying or you don't know what you're doing. And honestly, to understand how one hat works, it's it's that's worse than lying to tell you the truth. Yeah. So there there's I I I think with multistacked incomplete dominant jeans, I definitely like give people a bit of leeway. Everyone's doing the best they can to stack. Like

Like I I've bought like snakes that are like supposed to be super orange dream yellow belly entire leopard pi and first snake out of the hatch from it is a yellow belly pi. And it's like okay well it's not a super OD, you know.

Yeah.

I didn't even mention it to the guy. didn't even bo it didn't even cross my mind to mention it because I understand you're trying to ID seven jeans on a patch of snake scales this big on a on a little on a little baby and you're like

You know what I mean? So it's like I get it. It's like oh it's it's an orange dream entie fire leopard pipe. Okay, he got all of it right but missed a super who [ __ ] like really does it matter that much? I get it. There's money involved, but there's money involved for everyone, right? Both ways.

Um, so I don't if if I buy something and it and it ends up like, oh, it's missing yellow belly. It's like, okay, I get it. Now, if I buy something, the the difference is is like if I'm buying a lace combo and it's missing lace, that's what I was buying it for,

Right. Yeah. That's that's you know [snorts] if I'm buying a Pompei and it's missing yellow belly it's like okay it sucks but actually for my collection it's actually a good thing because somebody

Got too much runners

But uh, you know, it's a like I I'm getting major I'm getting majority of what I we both thought it was a Pompei also some of the onus has to go on to the buyer as well. I was going to say again, those are conversations both ways. The buyer can say, "Hey, here's what here's why I'm buying this. It's imperative this is a super. Are you sure?" Or

Exactly.

You know, I again, I love the super gravel project. I can't I can't have somebody misidentify a highway combo. I I don't That's going to set me back a year and a half or two years, whatever it took me to wait to time to grow this up. So, uh but again, like you say, that onus can go on the buyer. So, if I'm buying

A particular combo, I'm going. I need not only your word, I need your guarantee this isn't a yellow valley, right? Where are we at in that? And of course, like you say, we could test it. The testing will be on me. I'll figure that part out. But that, that conversation could go both ways.

Yeah. And like at the same time, if we're trying to ID theoretical combos, like some of the stuff that we sell, not just me, lots of people, we're into territory. We've never seen this combo before.

Right. Yeah. That's the other thing that definitely helps. Like, don't get me wrong, it helps a lot with that sort of that side of things where it's like I've had stuff where like, is that is that hurricane or am I just like tripping? Like, is that, you know? And you test it. Oh, it is hurricane. Okay, now I can say with confidence, no, I've tested this thing, it is hurricane.

But there is some more like nuance stuff there where, um, is it a good example of hurricane? Is it a bad example of hurricane? You, you know, like if it's a, if it's the lower expression, arcane combo, it could be easy to miss.

Oh, there's clowns where I'm like, I...

You sure?

I, yeah, I think, I think, but I'm not sure. Yeah.

So, I think everyone just needs to like, kind of like, you know, take a deep breath. We'll sort it out and it'll get fixed. Um, but yeah, I, I just, yeah, that's kind of my...

It makes for a, uh, it, I think actually everything we're discussing is part of like, I wouldn't say the addiction, the allure of it, 'cause there's the art, excuse me, there's the science and there's the money and the finance, but there's this really big area that's like an art and a, and a, and a, and a style. And I don't [clears throat] necessarily mean art like what ends up on the final project being part, you know, being art. I mean, just the art of navigating what we're doing, the various personalities, the various things that we have to know. We just talked about everything from an absolute shed test of a gene to, yeah, there's genes in there. I think this is the best thing of it and it's never been made before and it's probably pretty valuable. If we were talking about it, do we both agree that we like this at this price? And there's no like Federal Reserve that's pricing genes. There's no stock market saying this, you know what I mean? Like it's...

A union or something or like...

No, it's a really neat like purely capitalistic, uh, uh, frontier in that way to me. That that is wildly alluring to me. There's, there's comes a point too where like, as a seller and as a buyer, I think as a buy, buyers need to learn the questions to ask.

Like if you're new, don't you don't have to just go onto Morph Market and say, "Oh, that says that it's a lace clown. I'm, I'm just going to buy it." You can go on Morph Market and say like, "Hey, I see that you have a lace clown available. Um, are have you, just just for my curiosity, have you shed tested that?"

Mhm.

"Or has it come from a super?" Um, and then the buyer may come back to you and say like, "Hey, I've actually hatched 79 lace clowns before. Here's examples of lace clowns. Here's examples of them as adults. Here's comparisons of them as babies. I'm sure that this is a lace clown. I'm firm on that. Great. Okay. I'm going in with confidence now." Rather than just like, "Hey, uh, I'll take it." And then when it's not a lace clown, they freak out. It's, it's like, you ask the question. Say like,

"Can I see pictures of of your male? Can I see pictures of the father? Can I see pictures of other babies that he sired? Do you have other other comparisons of lace clowns? Or if I'm, if, or if you don't feel like it's a good enough example for your projects, ask if you really want to get it from them, ask, do you have a maybe a higher, higher representation or a higher, better example of of that lace clown or search for another one. It's not like you said earlier, there is always another lace clown. There [laughter] is always another. In fact, there's going to be 20 more. You know, it's not, there's never going to be less. So, if you're in the market for a lace clown or you're in, and this applies for everything. It's not just lace. This applies for if you're in the market for a botnos clown combo or whatever the heck it is, you know, ask those questions."

And then as a seller, I think you should, we should, we should try to take more of like that, like consultative approach. It's kind of what I try to do. Is I try to understand. Yeah. Not always. Somebody messages me and says, "Hey, I saw that snake on Morph Market. I'd like to buy it." Great. Sounds good.

No need to consult. Right.

Yeah.

We don't have to make it difficult.

Yeah.

Right. I just say, "Okay, sounds good. Here's my my payment info and once once paid, give me your shipping info. We'll ship it out next Tuesday." But for other people who maybe have like some questions or they're trying to build a direction, they might ask, they might come to me and say like, "Hey, Will, I'm looking for, this is what, this is where I'm thinking about going. Um, can you look, take a look at these? This is my group. Maybe I have five females that I'm considering breeding this male to. And I'm, I want to move into this direction with these these animals. C. Do you think this animal is a good fit?" Some people will just right out of the gate be like, "Yep, whatever I have is the best fit for you." I try not to do that because honest to God, I don't care enough to like just nickel in like a couple grand here, a couple grand there.

Yeah.

But they all sell at the end of the day anyway. So...

Yeah.

I'd rather like keep those relationships strong with all my customers and and I'll say to them like, "Hey, man, like honestly, this snake doesn't work for what you're thinking about doing." I might have one in the rack. I say, "Hang on, I have one that [clears throat] will,"

Right?

"And and I present that option. Or I say like, "Hey, look, I know one of my good buddies here. He just hatched this clutch. I don't know if any are for sale, but reach out, tell them I told you to call them and and see if they're they're available. You know, like as you do this for a living, you know, I see stuff that doesn't make it to Morph Market or doesn't make it to Instagram. I see those. I see those combos that pop up here and there."

Absolutely right.

"And and I know I have a, I have my finger, not totally, but I think I have my finger on the pulse of the market and kind of like who's making what. If I know I'm looking for a certain combo, I kind of know who to call."

Yeah.

"Um, you know, if I'm looking for super gravels, I know where to go."

And I told, I, it's become one of my favorite expressions. But now, this takes a certain, you got to pay the bills and you got to have lights and you got to be able to eat and all of that. But after that, I will take a great relationship over a a sale, all the time. Every time. 10 out of 10 times. Like I say, as long, I mean, and again, I, that takes a certain amount of of fortunate or results of hard work or getting to a certain point in life or whatever, whatever saying we use, but the opportunities are so, so massive from good relationships. And you, you would go broke buying those opportunities 'cause you, I mean, you almost can't. They're, they're they don't hit the market. They're done taken care of before or people don't even consider them with you. You know what I mean? It's, it's, it's I'm just so fortunate and thankful for that. But I work very, very hard at relationships for just what you're talking about.

I had a guy, uh, in Canada, and he wanted to get a snake for his daughter. And his daughter saw this snake that I had posted. It was some, one of these like a pi combo.

Mhm.

And it was a cheap snake. It was like $400 bucks. And so he, they came over and she was like, she's like, like, I really want that one, but it was a bit of a, it was a bit of a problem feeder for me.

And I was just like, I just, I was like, look, this is your first snake. Like, let me...

Can't do it.

Let, let me like, put something in your hands that will do well and not something that you're going to be like, "Oh, my snake's not eating. It's getting skinny. What do I do? I'm panicking." Like, I don't want you to have that like negative first experience, right? That's like the worst case scenario. You don't, that's, no one's coming back. You have a bad experience at a car dealership, you're not [ __ ] going back to that dealership.

There was one in every corner.

Yeah. You're not gonna go back. You go to the next one.

Yep.

So, we, we looked around the collection. Ended up giving her a snake that was like way more expensive, but gave it to her for four. I was like, "This one eats. You know what? It's a male. I, I don't have really a use for it. Why don't you guys take it and whatever?" Two years later, the dad calls me up and he's like, "Hey, man. Uh, that snake, by the way, that I was like, "Oh," I didn't really reckon. I was like, "Who is this again?" Right.

And, and he's like, "Oh, yeah, you sold a snake to my daughter, blah, blah, blah. You the one that wasn't eating and then you gave her one that was eating, blah, blah, blah." And they decided that they wanted to try and breeding. He came back and spent $35,000 buying a mini collection of stuff. And I was just like, whoa. And he had done his research. He came back and he was like, "Okay, I want to build a clown group. I want to build a hypo group. I want to build." And I was like, "Okay." And that is like the perfect example. That's right. Of someone where like, I could have just been like, "Yeah, here, take this one. This one's $400. Get it out of here." You know?

Yeah.

But it's, it's like all about and, and again, you don't want some kid to like,

Right?

Who knows? That could be the next Justin, you know? Like we don't know.

Yeah. With a dad spending 35 grand. I bet it is. [laughter]

Who knows, right?

Yeah.

I bet it is.

And you know, it was just like those, those situations. So, when I, when I try and sell, I try to try to find out what it is that that person's looking to get, what they're trying to build, and then I try and put pieces into their hands that will work for that project. And I'm, as I'm way better off saying, "I don't have anything for you that is going to work for you," than being like, "No, no, no, take this. Trust me. Trust me." And then they, and then it doesn't work and then they're like, "Oh, man." Somebody else gets in their ear and, "Oh, Will sold you that snake and it's a terrible purchase for you, blah, blah, blah." And it just like, you know, I'd much rather tell somebody, look, I don't have the right animal for you. I'm pairing for these next year. I can, I can put you on my list and when I hit that stuff, I always reach out to those people.

But, you know, it just, it just really depends. It's, uh, but like, like I said, relationships, 11 out of 10 over one quick sale. I, I think that example that you just gave is is perfect and a perfect place to sort of wrap up. Although I do want to hit one more topic before we wrap up.

Your, uh, Patreon is pretty...

I don't know if legendary is the right word. Very well known, very highly spoken of. Uh, in my opinion, I, I've never been in there, which I should go do if, if this is what I've heard, but it's really the standard that the rest live up to. Uh, give us a little pitch. Tell us about what goes on in there. Why should people, uh, consider, uh, coming to hang out with you on the Patreon?

Um, if you just want to be around people that live this, enjoy it, uh, chat about snakes, we, we [ __ ] with each other. Or it's, it's just like a big, like group of people that enjoy what we're doing. And I think that is like the number one thing that bleeds to the rest. It's like everyone's having fun. There are times where people are upset or this, I hit that odds, blah, blah, blah.

We had one guy in the Patreon yesterday or a couple days ago telling us that one of his females ate his male. And we were kind of like, "Yo, bro, I think you might have had a couple too many pops in the, uh, in the snake room and and put him somewhere." He's like, "No, no, it ate it." And then finally he found it. I was like, "I mean, I told [laughter] you." You know, like just stuff like that. But it's, uh, don't join if you're wanting like, don't join because you think I'm, you have to pay me for advice or pay me for help. Not at all. Message me for help. That's fine. I have anything, I'll tell anybody in there. I'll tell anybody anytime.

Um, that's a really good point because I've, I've eaten some BS from people. Oh, no, you charge for... No, I charge for the community space and what it takes to run that.

Yeah.

Go ahead. Don't mean to put words in your mouth, but thank you for making that distinction.

Weekly lives will, you know, we'll just, just have fun. I, I, I show all my pairings, what's going on. Um, I just try and like, I don't stick to any like, like YouTube format video. It's like the place where I just take my phone out in the snake room. I'm like, "Oh [ __ ] these three are locked. Like, if she goes, then I can get a mail from here. Then we can go over here." And you kind of see the like, the, the craziness in my brain, I suppose. Um, and yeah, spot, you can, you can try and sell snakes. It's a good spot to just meet a lot of like good breeders. There's a lot of, there's not a lot of like, they're all, everyone's like, I would say smaller breeder. No one in there is doing 200 clutches. No one's pumping out eggs, but I think everybody in there is really like keyed in on quality. And I, I just like, I am thankful for all those people 'cause like that's where I buy majority of the snakes I get every year are from them.

Yeah. I mean, the business relationships and those, I mean, we just talked about relationships and things that don't make it to the market and things that are spoken for and handshakes and, you know, it's, it's...

That's the place. And whether it's anybody, I don't, I don't even claim that it should be mine. I think it's one of the best investments anybody could make. With a few bucks a month, you get this place where you know everybody. It's like being able to pick your audience, being a musician. Like if I knew every person that was listening to me was cool, I would kill it every night on stage. You know?

We have one tier. There's not multiple tiers for different people. Everyone's the exact same tier. Everyone gets treated the exact same. Um, again, it's not like a, we're, I'm not doing like giveaways. We do a couple once in a while, but like, it's not like a, I'm going to give away a snake every week or that's not what it is. Um, it's every, every dollar that you spend into the Patreon is a credit with RCR. So if you ever want to purchase a snake in the future, you can use it like a little piggy bank for yourself. What, whatever you want. It's, we're flexible. It's just a fun spot. If, uh, if it's something you're interested in doing, you're more than welcome.

Awesome, guys. Uh, that's Will Marose. So, uh, check him out, support him. Uh, he's here in the States now. You don't have to ship across the border or wait or wonder or think that's a hard thing to do 'cause whether it is or not, it's, it's done. You don't have to do that anymore. Will, thanks for, uh, thanks for joining. You're like, say, you're always really gracious towards me and I, I, I'm very, very thankful for that. Thank you very much, man. I, I, um, just, whether it's on the show, in person, in Canada, in Tinley, uh, in a hotel lobby, in, in the show, wherever, man, it's, it's, uh, you, like I say, very, very gracious.

You want to hear something funny?

What's that?

I got to the States and then sold a snake and guess where it's going?

Back to Canada. [laughter]

I was like, I got to figure out shipping again.

Yeah. [laughter]

Oh man.

Yeah. Well, well, if I could ever do anything for you, please don't hesitate to let me know. I don't know what I have for... Well, and you've done a lot for me already. So, thank you so much. I appreciate it. Guys, go check out, uh, Will Marose. That's Royal Canadian, uh, Reptiles. And, uh, I will see you guys same place, same time next week, uh, Tuesday nights, 8:00 p.m. Eastern time. See you. Cheers. [music] Heat [music] [music] up.

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Looking Ahead to 2026: Breeding Philosophy, Business Reality & Great Snakes with Will Moroz

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