Transcription
This is Facing South Florida with Jim DeFede.
Welcome to Facing South Florida, I'm Jim DeFede. Days after the capture of Nicolas Maduro, President Trump told the New York Times, he envisions the United States controlling Venezuela and its vast oil reserves for years to come. It's also clear that at least for now, while the dictator is gone, the dictatorship remains. Delcy Rodriguez, Maduro's handpicked vice president, is the country's interim president. While Interior Minister Cabello and Defense Minister Padrino Lopez, both under indictment in the United States, remain in their positions.
This week, I had the opportunity to speak to Juan Guaido, the opposition leader, who was named interim president of Venezuela in 2019. His presidency was recognized by the United States and more than 50 other countries, but he never was able to truly take power. He led a coup to unseat Maduro in 2019, but after it failed, he fled to the United States. During President Trump's 2020 State of the Union Address, he recognized Guaido in the Gallery.
"Here this evening is a very brave man who carries with him the hopes, dreams, and aspirations of all Venezuelans. Joining us in the Gallery is the true and legitimate president of Venezuela, Juan Guaido." (audience applauds) "Mr. President, please take this message back to your homeland." (audience applauds)
He has been living in Miami for the past few years, and when I spoke to him, I started by asking for his reaction to Maduro's capture.
"Well, for me, from the perspective of a Venezuelan, the first word that came at my mind was justice, I have to say. For the people who was kidnapped by the regime. For those who tried to remove with his vote, that regime once and again. The first word that came was justice, but also hope, opportunity to get back to my country. I mean, I'm in exile in this moment for the persecution of the regime. And with me, a million Venezuelans, 25% of our population are in exile because that regime. So for us, it was a touching moment and a hopeful one for our country."
Now, President Trump did an interview with the New York Times just yesterday. And in it, he said that he thinks US could be running Venezuela for years to come. And he also expressed that he thinks that he's doing well working with Delcy Rodriguez and the others who are part of the regime. Do you think Donald Trump is making a mistake in trusting that he can work with Delcy Rodriguez?
"I think the Trump administration with the State Secretary Marco Rubio and President Trump, they're not naive. I mean, they told Delcy that they have to commit with the US with the transition. And if they don't, they're gonna get the same destiny of Maduro or worst. I mean, that's a strong phrase in this moment, and that's useful to a transition. Why? Again, Delcy's a interim dictator. I mean, he's the second in charge of Nicolas Maduro. Not even Marco Rubio, State Secretary, President Trump, us in the opposition back in Venezuela are naive. This is a process, a difficult one. I mean, this is a criminal regime. We have to dismantle. We need to get down that regime to re-institutionalize Venezuela, the justice system back in our country, the oil sector, to produce wealth for our people, to produce also and rebuild the hospitals, the schools, the infrastructure."
Is Delcy Rodriguez someone you think the US should trust or that you think that she will, I guess I'm just curious as to your impressions of who Delcy Rodriguez is. You talked about her being, you know, Maduro's handpicked number two, and it appears that there seems to be, since the events of last Saturday, some stepped-up repression, still people being arrested on the streets of Caracas. Does that worry you?
"I don't think that the US or President Trump or State Department and Secretary Rubio trust Delcy. The other way around, they don't trust her. But they know that the criminal regime that maintain the ELN, FARC dissident, drug cartels back in Venezuela, we need to take it down, and it's a process. We can achieve a full transition to democracy with the opposition, with democracy. I mean, with elections, with a lot of things that we need in short term. So in this moment, Delcy is between the sword and the wall. I don't know if the translation to English is literally, but he got an impossible situation, you know."
The issue of oil, Donald Trump has made clear that oil is very important to him in this process. Do you worry that for average Venezuelans in the country, in Venezuela today, that they will see that as a sign of US is only interested in their natural resources and is not really interested in restoring democracy? Does that worry you?
"No, from the perspective of a Venezuelan, we need to recover our oil sector, our oil industry, that has decreased almost two-third parts of our production the last 10 years. I mean, we produced, 10 years ago, maybe 10 million, I'm sorry, three million barrels a day. Today, not even one million. We need investment in the sector. We need, for that, the rule of law is very important because if you have an industry here in the US or anywhere in the world and you want to get invest in any country, you need certainty, you need securities. So when the President Trump and Marco Rubio talk about the oil sector back in Venezuela, for us is good news."
Have you spoken to Secretary of State Marco Rubio since Saturday?
"No, no. Since Saturday, no."
Okay, and when you talk about a transition to democracy, we're obviously also talking about potentially holding new elections. Is that what you wanna see? Do you wanna see new elections? Or do you wanna see the United States install the winners that they recognize of the '24 elections, Edmundo Gonzalez and Maria Corina Machado?
"We want to see a full transition. I mean, independence of powers, fuel recovery, the judicial system, that the infrastructure in the country start again, and rebuild that infrastructure, not only schools, hospitals, and also buildings, but also our democracy fully restored back in Venezuela. We want Edmundo Gonzalez Urrutia being recognized. But we also know that this is a transition that involves also part of the regime. I mean, in this moment, we got some kind of a interim dictator, you know, but again, we have to take down that system, and we will. So, is an election a possibility, an opportunity in six months, one year, one and a half year? I think yes. I mean, every transition around, not only in Chile back in the '90s, also in Venezuela back in the '60s, end with an election. Why? We have to renew all the powers. We have to make confidence for the people in the system. Not only in a moment, not only in words. We need to rebuild the confidence of the people in our institutions. And I think an election could help in that way."
You referred to Delcy a second ago, and I just want to go back to it. You consider Delcy Rodriguez to be an interim dictator?
"Yeah, I say that several times in the interview. Delcy is the interim dictator. I mean, we are not naive about the situation. And also, the administration is very clear with the path for Delcy and his entourage."
But you think also that elections probably are six months, a year, or a year and a half away. You don't see elections anytime soon.
"Well, we want to recognize the institutions back in Venezuela. We elect Edmundo Gonzalez Urrutia. In this moment, we are facing a transition that we want to end with democracy, with full democracy, with full rule of law back in Venezuela, the respect of the institutions. But we know it's a process. We feel that there is a resistance of the Venezuelans. Their vote, their sacrifice, their refusal to give up, was not in vain. And in that way, we can achieve a full transition with an election. I mean, it's gonna take time."
There are a number of Venezuelans who are in the United States who were covered under temporary protective status, who are subject now to deportation, whether it's back to Venezuela or to Mexico. While this uncertainty is going on inside Venezuela, while Delcy Rodriguez is still the interim dictator, to use your words, should the Trump administration stop deporting Venezuelans from the United States? In other words, should he allow the temporary protective status of Venezuelans to continue, at least for the short term?
"If I understand well the words or the statement of the Homeland Security Secretary, the Venezuelans could ask for asylum in this moment. So there is several ways to get protected in the US in this moment. The situation back in Venezuela is still as you know, and the Secretary is, say, uncertainty. So in this moment, the main or the first way to achieve protection could be the asylum."
Back in 2019, 2020, did you ask for military support when you were interim president? Did you ask for US military intervention at the time?
"I went to the Oval Office in 2020. I spoke of several things with President Trump, and we spoke about not an intervention. I mean, that word have a pejorative-like connotation. So, we seek for help, and the use of power was one of them. And we spoke about this situation. But also in the UN. I mean, we need more tools to make accountable these kind of dictators because the impunity, it's a very harmful thing for democracy, for liberty, for stabilization of the region. So with this operation, in this moment, when they could happen, not in 2019, not in 2020, in this moment, with the context, with the proof that the United States have against the criminal Maduro, it's a moment to achieve. And I have to say, it was flawless operation to put before justice Maduro."
Do you have any interest in potentially running if there is elections, if there are new elections in Venezuela, whether it's a year or a year and a half from now? Do you have any interest in leading your party or trying to be part of any elections going forward?
"You know, when I was 35 years old, I was the president of the National Assembly, interim president of Venezuela, recognized by 60 countries. I served with all my life to my country. In this moment, I already achieved that kind of charge, you know, that position. I want to get back to my country. I want to help to rebuild our nation. I want my two little girls can go back to our country, as eight million Venezuelans that have to leave for the persecution, for the lack of opportunities, and a lot of things. But if I have to serve, I can serve in any position, not only in an election one. I already won several elections back in Venezuela. We need a strong team. This is not a one-person task. It's a society task, in this moment, with the help of the international community. And we're gonna need not only Venezuelans. We're gonna need a lot of people, investors. We're gonna need the rule of law. We're gonna need help to contain the guerrillas back in Venezuela, to the drug cartels. So this is gonna be very, very good situation for Venezuela and the region, I have to say."
But just to ask more directly, would you like to be able to be president of Venezuela again?
"Maybe you can ask me in two years or five years, or in four years." (laughs)
All right. Mr. President, I thank you very much for your time. Was there anything else you wanted to say or discuss?
"No, you have to say that President Donald Trump is a man of his words. I mean, several things that we discussed in that meeting in the Oval Office in 2020, he achieved. He was committed to achieve and deliver it for the region, for the US, and for Venezuela. And we have a great gratitude with that determination."