MILLAN LUDEÑA - Metas que asustan, Aventuras Extremas y prepararte para lo peor #193

Millán, welcome to Cracks Podcast. Thank you, thank you. It's a pleasure to be here. It's finally happening, and one day before the big event, the one you're here for, the one where you and I will share something I never imagined: a stage with Tony Robbins. And we'll talk a little about that. But before that, I'd like you to tell me, what is it and where does your passion for rap battles come from?

It's great. From a marginal neighborhood when I was little. I'm Ecuadorian, and there were gangs and all that. It wasn't called rap battles back then. You'd just go and rap, improvising. The idea is to have mental agility, and I really enjoyed that. Eventually, I stopped doing it, and now Red Bull does it worldwide. I think the movement is growing tremendously in Mexico. It has, along with Spain, one of the main exponents. Basically, they are musical intellectual challenges through rapping. So, they give you a topic, and you improvise. It's super good, super good. And now, I watch it a lot and enjoy it a lot. I haven't been to a rap battle final, and it's one of my pending things. It's like a soccer final, something like that. I want to go, I want to go. And I like to think about my childhood level. I didn't know that existed, and I wanted to be a rap battler.

Speaking of childhood, you've said you were in a gang in Guayaquil, a marginal neighborhood. A gang member at 8 or 10 years old. What's it like being in a gang at 8 or 10 years old?

I don't know about you. You're standing on the streets, on the corner. I think if it was 30 years ago, maybe the logic of gangs was different. Maybe it was limited to certain walls, not as linked, unfortunately, to deaths, murders, or assassinations, at least in my neighborhood. At least in my neighborhood. It was still a non-standard path, though. I think that level of awareness I surely had as a child presented me with only three opportunities in the neighborhood: either you escape poverty through education, but you don't believe it because you see adults who also went to school and are still in the same neighborhood, so you don't believe the model. Or you do it through business, but you also don't believe it because there isn't an adult entrepreneur in the same neighborhood. So, what I did see as a development model, ironically, is the world of gangs. Because the gang member, he changed his cap, he had a car, he had the best girl, or whatever. So you say, it's interesting, and the mental link was: I'm going to grab a model that shows me it works. So it wasn't education, it wasn't entrepreneurship. And surely, the gang, and I think that's why I was so excited about the idea of advancing in life through that path. I'm talking about eight, nine years old. What is that? It's standing basically with clothes two sizes too big for you on the corner. And I think eventually, certain episodes happen on that path that I think didn't lead me to anything more than drawing on walls. Because my mom intervened. So I think the country lost one more delinquent from that day my mom came, grabbed me by the hair, and took me home. I think she got scared and said, "I have to do something really daring with education." And there, I think we made the first big change, the great crack in our lives, which was to take us out of public education and put us into private education in the same poor neighborhood. Not only that, but perhaps by paying 100 pesos or 50, or whatever, you're no longer in the public model, or at least you're trying to build something as much as possible.

Tell me a little more about this stage of your life. Your mom takes you out of the gang, gives you private education. What lessons did you learn from how your parents and siblings acted during that time of so much difficulty?

I believe, and this is very linked to the day I was diagnosed with epilepsy, that I believe that sometimes the only thing we have left in life is to be brave. The only thing. And it's beautiful because we are all brave, but I think we use it as a last resort. And when I was diagnosed with epilepsy, after some fainting spells on the same day, and I was ten years old, imagine. Honestly, I didn't understand what epilepsy even was. My mom surely did. And in a burst of bravery, she told the doctor, "You are not going to condemn my life to anyone," and she took me out of the room. And on the bus, on the way home, she told me, "You have to learn to reject your destiny." It sounds arrogant, actually. To learn to reject your destiny. And what that means is when you reject the destiny that people say you should have, you give yourself the opportunity to create your own. You really put yourself first because the generalized model, unfortunately, is that one does, thinks, says, dresses, and acts based on others, without even questioning how much we matter to them. And that makes you lose a lot of energy, attention, and time by paying attention to yourself. And if you don't pay attention to yourself, it's very difficult to be the owner of your life. And if you're not the owner of your life, then what are you going to do? What could you do? You'll simply end up doing whatever is fashionable for the next 30 years. And it's ironic. It's ironic to spend a whole life doing whatever is fashionable and not giving yourself the opportunity to pay attention to yourself. On the bus, I used to lean against that little pole on the buses, my mom telling me, "You have to learn to reject your destiny to create your own." And I liked the idea of creating my own. Honestly, I loved that simple idea of, "So, I can try whatever I want in life." Well, apparently, yes. Whether you achieve it or not will be due to other causes. Just trying is enough. At ten years old, perhaps on the most complicated day of my life, you are diagnosed, sentenced, with epilepsy. And there, I think there were only two options in my house: my dad and my mom saying, "From now on, my poor son, who has epilepsy," and hearing that daily. Because cognitively, the cortex in a child is not fully developed. So we absorb everything, for better or for worse. If you unfortunately hear a phrase like "you're an idiot in math," you absorb it without questioning it, at least until you're eight years old. Or if, fortunately, you are a magician with performing arts or art, or "how intelligent you are," or "wow, I applaud this," you absorb that too. It's the Pygmalion effect in the end. Reality is nothing more than what you have in your head. And I think at that moment, minutes before, they had told me "you have epilepsy," and on a bus, they were telling me "you can create the life you want." And I liked the second one. I think that's where the true change in life philosophy happened.

And was it the same for the rest of your siblings? I mean, was this a philosophy that permeated and was lived?

Yes, yes. And they say the best way to educate a child is not by talking to them but by teaching them by example. Did you see your parents acting that way? Yes, yes, I saw it. I saw it. And now, as a psychology student, I understand the importance of coherence and how difficult it really is. It's the true challenge in aligning what you think. And this, my mother taught me, if my mother was aligned between what you are thinking, saying, feeling, and doing, she was teaching me to align what you think, say, feel, and do. About 35 years later, I understood that this is called coherence, and it's really the challenge for humans. And it's extremely difficult. That's why everyone talks about corruption and gets married to it, and at the slightest opportunity, if they can avoid doing it, they do it illegally, whatever. That's the challenge: how to be coherent between the discourse you just delivered and what you are doing immediately. It's super difficult. And I think I always saw my parents act coherently. And the child, as you say, the child does and believes what they see. So, it's a bit difficult for me to understand that parents are frustrated because their son doesn't read. Because the immediate question is, "And you, what day of the week do you read?" And then it becomes an uncomfortable moment because you have the answer, and you have it clearly. And perhaps then you realize that you are demanding something that you are not capable of doing. And of course, then comes a whole series of excuses: "I'm tired," "I don't have time," "What things," anything. But you are asking your child for something that you are not willing to do. This phrase, "Don't ask for something you're not willing to do," also applies at home.

And how did this happen when you were 8, 9, 10 years old? Yes, 10 years old. I was diagnosed around 10, 11. And then you continue, you live an adult life, you go to university, you start working. And on one hand, it seems like you have this mental empowerment, and you're capable of anything, since you were little, they programmed you for that. But on the other hand, 20 years later, you realize that, as you say, you're not living, you're just aging. Explain this duality of thought.

Yes, yes. Look, I really like to believe in real experience. So, tell me more or less what you've tried, and from there, we'll talk. I don't like to talk about air, about smoke, and all that. It's the same story, the same paradox: talking nicely without much substance. I don't want to talk nicely; I want to feed myself from your own experience, and I want whoever talks to me to feed themselves from my own experience. So, when I changed my education and started to understand this, I didn't value it either because I didn't have the real experience. Until at 15, I got my first scholarship. A student scholarship, not out of charity, not out of poverty, not out of pity, because I managed to link that scholarship to being the best student, or one of the best students. And I said, "I'm earning this," and I liked the idea that being the best has benefits. Because sometimes we think, "I deserve the benefit," and necessarily, "I'm not the best," and it doesn't add up. Because I ask my friends at lunches and everything, "Name five people you admire." And those five are surely the best at what they do, which is why they have the benefit you're admiring. Are you admiring the fact that they are the best, or are you admiring their benefits? Because if you're admiring their benefits, you're skipping the part of connecting that they have them because they are the best. And I think this culture of poverty makes us focus on the benefit. It's like when... it's like when I was a public servant. It's like when you reach a position, say, minister or secretary of state. The coffee they offer you is not offered to you, but to the position you occupy. You matter little to that position. Eventually, you'll leave, another secretary of state will come, and they'll offer the same coffee, and they'll open the same door to the position. And I think we pay a lot of attention to the benefit and don't link that the benefit comes because you were the best. If we paid attention to being the best, maybe we'd like to be the best. Who are five people you admire personally? It changes all the time. My mom is always in the rankings. My dad too. And then, depending on the moment in my life, how I feel, and what I'm looking for right now. For example, Tony Robbins, you mentioned him. Five years ago, I decided to be a speaker, and I was looking for who is the best speaker to have this kind of modeling. You can't want to become the best if you don't know who the best is. How do you model it? In fact, to have your own diagnosis, I'm here. I'd like to get there, and there's still all this to have that plan. So, when I decided to be a speaker, and I started asking who is the best in my country, then I asked who is the best in the region, and then I asked who is the best in the world. And what I was doing was marking milestones. So, eventually, at some point, you say, "Okay, I'm the best in my country. I'm going for the best in the region," and so on. And when I met Robbins, I said, very clearly, I remember very clearly, "When I see him in person, either it's because I have the money to pay for the front row, or I'll see him on stage," and here we are, the second one is happening. So, I think Robbins has been one of these five people lately. I really like Elon Musk too, in the line of exploring space. It seems amazing to me. Wow. Regardless of personal issues and everything, in the end, one chooses what they want to look at in people. It happens to us, doesn't it? It's the same with ancestors. We choose the genes we want to express. We've heard stories from our grandparents, good, bad, horrible, terrifying, very beautiful, motivating, and everything. All those arrived, and we choose the genes we want to express. Now, when you realize that this moment has arrived where you don't feel like you're squeezing everything you could out of life, what decisions do you make? How do you turn around? Because I understand that when you started running, you were 33 years old. Yes, 32, 33. At what point, I suppose like everyone else, you start doing it as a hobby. At what point does this become an outlet, or rather, what point does it become what gives you what you feel is missing from your life?

Excellent. This was one of my psychologist's conclusions. The model you developed internally was a model of... this was years later. This was years later. Yes. And she always said you worked looking for something, and that gave you direction. So, you were always after something. And I don't like not pursuing something. No, no. And it's a model that has been developing, developing, developing. And perhaps that's why, for years now, getting the scholarship, I was pursuing a scholarship. Then, when I finished high school and wanted to go to university, I also decided, "I want to go to the best agricultural university in the world." Very far, very expensive, almost inaccessible, almost impossible. But it gives me fulfillment to know that I'm pursuing something. And specifically, when I achieve that, I'll do my MBA, and the same story. So, I was always hooked on something, and that gives meaning to existence.

I want to interrupt you before you continue with this story to understand. Many people live in this constant pursuit of something, and not even with goals, but even with pleasure. Hedonism exists, this concept of hedonic adaptation. Something that was very good yesterday is just okay today, and you need something more intense, more expensive, more beautiful, bigger, to satisfy that same emotion. At what point do you draw the line, or how do you manage so that it's not a constant emptiness that you're feeling? Do you celebrate these achievements, or at the moment you reach the goal you set, do you feel like it wasn't there, and then there's something bigger you need?

Yes, yes. Look, I'm at a point in my life where I'm transitioning phases. To answer you, the answer was: I always felt like I celebrated little. And the story I told myself was: I like two specific moments. When I take on a challenge. The first one, and it's surely happened to you, no? When you've been thinking about something for months, going over it, you haven't told anyone, and at some point, it clicks, and you tell your friend, "I'm going to do it," or you tell your girlfriend, "I'm going to try it," or your wife, or you're running alone and say, "I'm going to do it." That moment fascinates me. It's like two things were meshing until it clicked. That's what I call the zero moment. If you're alone, if you're lying down, if your girlfriend asks you, "What are you talking about? I don't understand what's happening to you." That moment is zero because in your head, it has already happened. And from there, weeks, months, years pass, it doesn't matter. And perhaps, fortunately, you achieve it. And when I achieve it, I feel like I've completed a whole cycle. The point arrived because the emotion is very similar. And one of the things I remember instantly upon achieving it is the moment I said, "I'm going to do it." I really enjoy connecting "I'm going to do it" with "I did it." I love it. It happened on my first mountain in the Andes, it happened in the Sahara, it happened in Antarctica, it happened when I got closest to the sun, it happened when I got the scholarship, when I graduated from Zamorano, when I got on stage at Incae graduating among the best. It happened. And it will surely keep happening. Only that when the cycle ends, and then you enter another phase, imagining what else, planning until the next click occurs. And today, I'm in my phase two. Because when the cycle ends, I'm allowing myself to enjoy the process much more. The whole process. All of it. Not just until it ends, but I enjoy the process. Now, yes, now I feel like I enjoy every moment. And of course, since I'm in this phase two, getting used to it cognitively, because I'm leaving my first model, there are still moments of discomfort. It just happened to me, and I was telling Mara, and with this, when they confirmed that I was going to speak. In my head, only in my head, I thought I was going to speak on the second day. In fact, I thought, "I'm going to speak just before he comes out." In my head, I didn't realize it was only in my head. And of course, when they confirm the agenda, it wasn't what I had in my head. And it generates this anger and frustration. And my immediate reaction mechanism was: "No matter where I'm speaking, I'm going to give the best conference, including Robbins. I'm going to give the best conference." And of course, I was acting from a kind of resentment for something that never happened because it always happens in my head. And in my head. And today, in this process, those things, only because of expectation, didn't fit my model. And what's happening now is changing that to really enjoy the conference and the whole process. In the conference where we met, we've made some changes, some things, and I love it. I want to speak now because I want to show it. I'm really fascinated by it. And you say, "Wow, of course, in the end, one always decides where to put their energy and attention, and that's what really matters." When you started running and signed up for your first, for your first ultra, which you didn't know was an ultra, you say you learned a phrase: "The ego, well used, is wonderful." What does that phrase mean?

Yes. Look, I always believe that colloquially, or standardized, we talk a lot about the ego as bad. So, "how egocentric," "how whatever." Even now, as you were talking, I can tell you, that ego is what's pulling you, what's pulling you, and everything. And I think the ego is necessary because the ego is the expression of your self-worth, and it's a matter of self-esteem. When you feel good about yourself, you also feel that you deserve more for yourself. Anywhere. That's why sometimes we accept behaviors and things that we think we don't deserve, due to an outdated self-esteem. So, how to feel good about myself? I believe it's this expression of having fear and my updated self-esteem.

Tell me a little more about this you just said: "we accept things due to an outdated self-esteem."

Yes. It's interesting that we keep our cell phones up to date, all our applications are updated. And you ask yourself, or I ask, "Why do you update the system?" And the answer is surely, "Because it's too slow," or "Well, there's an update, that's why I'm going to update it." And what does that new update have? The truth is, I haven't checked. But I suppose if it's updated, it's better. If we've already bought that, it would be worth asking, "How long has it been since you updated your system?" And there comes the whole question: "And why should I update it?" Because every update is good. You just told me a minute ago. It would be worth updating the thing. And that's when we start asking ourselves, "If I wanted to rate my self-esteem level from 0 to 10, more or less where would I be?" Regardless of human answers. If you answer me "two," there's an opportunity for "eight." And if you answer me "eight," surely there's an opportunity for "two." And if you answer me "ten," I think the next question I would put on the table is, "And how happy do you feel?" Because in theory, you should be God. So, it's great to know that there's always an opportunity for improvement and updating. That's why I think the ego is important.

And how did your ego play a role in your first race?

That's great. I was already running. Look, I was running, and I'm talking about 10 years ago, maybe. I was running a kilometer, a kilometer and a half, maybe that's it. I moved to Quito, a city that's quite high, 2,800 meters. Here we are at 2,400, 2,000 meters. 2,000. Well, 2,800. It's high, and everything. I come from the coast. And one day, just to be open-mouthed, basically, looking at the mountains around, I ran 4 kilometers. I got excited and said, "If I'm already running 4, I'm ready for my first mountain race." I go to a store to sign up. And this race had categories: 10, 20, 50, 80. What was happening? 4 kilometers. And the normal thing would be to ask for 10. And in my head, "You're doing 2.5 times more than what you're already doing. This is a challenge. So, give me a 10." And the guy says, "10 is full." And it's surely happened to you, and to those listening now, that you go to a store to buy something, you want it, you know how much money you have in your wallet, it's not enough, it's not the right thing. You leave the store, two steps later, you say, "Damn it, I'm buying it because I deserve it." And you go back in, take out that card, and that's it. Because you deserve it, because you are the center of the planet, and that's why you've worked so hard. And any discourse of that kind. I did the same. I left that store with my 10 kilometers denied. I go back in and say, "Give me a 20." So the guy knocks down the story again and says, "10 and 20 are full. If you want to run here, it will be 50 or 80." And honestly, I didn't want to leave that store empty-handed again. So I said, "Give me a 50." I didn't even understand what 50 kilometers was. I knew an official marathon is 42.2 kilometers. I didn't understand that it was 50, and I also didn't understand what 50 meant on a mountain. I didn't understand it yet. Even so, I asked for a ticket. They sold me the ticket. I took the ticket, and two days later, I was in that race. Four in the morning. When I arrived, I already suspected where I was getting into. Everyone was equipped: headlamps, backpacks, poles, compression socks, food, energy bars, everything, everything. And I, a t-shirt, a sleeveless shirt, a tank top, shorts, and any shoes. No backpack, no headlamp, no jacket. My logic was: if I run fast, I'll warm up. And in the end, the brain self-programs. My programming to maintain my position that I do what I want in life is: "It doesn't matter if there are 50 people, at kilometer 10, I'll take off." That was my plan. I reach kilometer 9, not even 10, at 9, already cold, hungry, with everything. God, really uncomfortable on that mountain, surely waiting for someone to rescue me or a taxi to pass, I don't know, on the mountain. And a gentleman very kindly says to me, "You don't quit when you feel like it here on the mountain. You quit at certain points where you can be evacuated. It's at kilometer 15, the point. And it's at kilometer 9." I finished that race. I mean, not kilometer 15, because at kilometer 15 was the guy who sold me the ticket. I finished that race. Because this gentleman touched my ego again and said, "If you want to quit, fine, we already knew you were going to quit." And you grab your baby and say, "I'm not quitting. And I'll only quit when I say so, not when you say so." In short, tell me, where is the next point? At kilometer 25. Ten more kilometers. I get scared and continue to kilometer 25. I reach kilometer 25 without fear. There, I really get to say, "You know what? Let me out of here." And he says, "The cars aren't arriving yet. So, it rained this week. So, you're right in the middle. You decide whether you go back to the beginning or advance to the end. It's the same for you." And I think the learning from that race was that the key is to reach a point of no return. At that point, where it's the same to you whether you go back or finish what you started. Before that, it's inefficient. That point, because it will be more attractive to go back. It will be much more inefficient because it will take you longer to go back than to finish it. It's that point. And that's what I was telling you about from the "click" moment in my journeys, where I say, "I'm going to do it." That's a point of no return for me. Once I say, "I'm going to do it," there's no turning back. And at least I'm going to try.

And how did you feel when you finished that race? What did it do to you, being someone who was at most an occasional runner? Why continue on that path?

I finished the 50 kilometers because I never had the opportunity to quit. Basically, I can't be a superhero, I can't be the Avengers, I can't be an ultra-runner, nothing like that. I simply didn't have the opportunity to quit, and I had no Plan B. And that's when I realized that when you have your Plan A and you don't flirt with the rest of the alphabet, you put what you have limited – your attention, energy, focus, and strength – into only one thing. So, you put everything you have towards achieving that goal. And I think this distortion of being a multitasker makes you put the only thing you have, this block, this block, spread across the entire alphabet. And here, two truths occur, I think. The first: each letter receives a small piece. Yes. And the second truth is that none receives enough. So, the conclusion is that you spend all day busy, yes, without energy, without attention, without focus, without strength, at the end of the day too. And for some reason, you feel like you haven't advanced. And the truth is, you haven't advanced enough. In my envy, I understood what strategy, at the end of the day, is to discard that you are someone with only one plan in everything you do. So, I try to put my focus on my Plan A. And if Plan A doesn't work, then Plan B. But it has to fail for me to go to the bathroom. I'm not flirting with C and D. No, no. I don't like to have a "just in case." Abraham Levy told me that, a Mexican athlete who was here on the podcast. Years ago, he crossed the Atlantic by rowing, without motors, sails, or anything, from Spain to Mexico, a journey of more than three months. And he told me that the only thing he knew was that he wasn't going back. That he was arriving in Mexico today, or he would be in the middle. But you have to have a lot of conviction to think like that. Conviction that what you are pursuing is what you want and means enough. And trust, and trust that it will turn out well. In psychology, we call them self-fulfilling prophecies. Trust that it will turn out well. There is no way to attempt something that you know will turn out badly. You will surely do it. Because of that empowerment of pursuing trend after trend after trend, that will surely happen. Only that if you suspect it won't work, it won't work. All the projects I did, I was convinced that I could do them. What is the decision-making process? That maybe you start planning, as you say, these ideas in your head. Do you have a series of questions, a decision matrix, a tree inside your head where you evaluate options, costs, benefits? How do you think before reaching that moment where it's zero?

In several ways. The first: what's the worst that could happen? And I'll tell you, not in order, really. What's the worst that could happen? When I wanted to go to the Sahara to run 250 kilometers, the hottest place on Earth, I asked myself this question: "What's the worst that could happen?" The worst that could happen is that I die. Okay, removing that, what's the worst that could happen? The worst that could happen is that I don't finish it. Okay, and not finishing it, what would that imply? That I used preparation time in vain, so to speak. I spent money, and maybe my friends will make fun of me at a few lunches. What else could happen? No, honestly, nothing. And if you hadn't trained, what would you have done? Continued sleeping. Okay. And since you trained, do you feel like it harmed your body? No. You don't put it in the loss column, or in the end, a gain? No, actually, it was a gain. The money? Okay, how much would you have spent on that trip? You were connecting it with going to see Paris and Barcelona. Yes, you went anyway. And if you hadn't finished the race, would you still have gone? Yes. And at what time? On vacation. And if you hadn't gone to the Sahara on vacation, where would you have gone? To Barcelona and Paris. So, it's the same for you? Yes. And finally, the fact of paying for the race, can you recover that money? Yes. In how much time? In so many months. It's not the end of the world. And to every question you ask yourself with "What's the worst that could happen?" your own brain has the capacity to solve it. And with each "What's the worst that could happen?" I realized that the worst that could happen was getting smaller and smaller. So, after all these conversations with myself, the worst that could happen after going to the Sahara was not finishing the race, going on the vacation I wanted, seeing the desert, having trained, having met people, and a bunch of other things that, in the end, not finishing the race wasn't a big deal. And when I realized that, I said, "Wow, of course, the little monsters in our heads are very big, and because we don't ask them, we move on to the next life project." And so we go from project to project, from little monster to little monster, without asking ourselves, "What's the worst that could happen?"

Tell me about the Marathon des Sables. What is this 250-kilometer race?

I learned about it by doing research for my episode number 5, where I interviewed someone who is a fantastic person, whom I hope you can meet someday. He's Rafa Jaime, a blind ultra-athlete. And he entered the Marathon des Sables, blind. I mean, I don't run half a block, and he wants to run 250 kilometers. And he has done a series of impressive things throughout his athletic career. And I saw the program you were talking about, we were together in Cabo, you and I, about the Netflix series "Losers," about that guy who gets lost in a sand dune, in Italian, in the Marathon des Sables. At what point did you decide to do a race like that? Tell me what it is for those who don't know it, and how you decided to get there.

Well, the Marathon des Sables is considered by Discovery Channel to be the most difficult foot race in the world. It's 250 kilometers spread over several stages, about six stages, averaging 40 kilometers. It's a complete madness, and they don't provide you with supplies. You are self-sufficient. You carry your backpack. They only give you medical supplies if you need them, and water. The rest goes in your backpack: clothes, food for the whole week, and whatever else you'll need. So, I had returned a year earlier from Argentine Patagonia because when I finished that first mountain race, where I finished 50 kilometers, the only question I had that week was: "Why, Millán? You had never run 10, and you had never run 50. Why did you want to run 10 if you could have done 50?" And I felt like I hadn't achieved 10, or rather, I hadn't achieved 10, but I had lost out on gaining 40. I don't want to lose out. And to convince myself that I had achieved this is already impressive. That question. And then I realized that my entire life was in the same metaphor of 10 and not 50. And I had self-condemned myself to be successful because everything I did, I achieved. Every project at the office, I could do it. Every subject I took in university, I could pass. And if something seemed a little difficult, and I didn't know how to do it, I wouldn't take it on. So, I unconsciously made sure to be 100% successful because they say being successful is very cool. So, how do we buy that? So, everything we decide to try in life, we make sure we can do it. Six months or a year later, we'll respond and say, "Wow, what a difficult project!" But thanks to my ability, my intelligence, my skill, my networking, and everything, I was able to achieve it. Six months ago, you knew you could achieve it. You never gave yourself the opportunity to challenge yourself. And that's when I realized, and I said, "Wait a minute. I don't want to go from success to success. I like the idea of going from attempt to attempt more." Because when I went from success to attempt, I realized I could dream bigger. I was no longer limited to success, but to the attempt. And the world opened up to me, and I said, "Ah, why can't we try this?" And I also allowed myself not to mistreat myself with non-success. If it's an attempt, there's a possibility it won't work the first time. In fact, what I was starting to read and everything, I realized that these great projects I admired in life didn't happen the first time, nor were they microwaveable, nor were they immediate. And I said, "I want to wake up knowing I'm trying something big more." Because it's an attempt. You'll never do anything in your life that doesn't scare you again. That was the phrase I said in front of the sea, and no one was there. I return to coherence. As soon as I found a first project that scared me, I could have chosen not to take it. If I didn't take it, I would continue in incoherence. And I find myself, and I find the Marathon des Sables, 250 kilometers in the hottest place on Earth, and it's considered the most difficult race in the world. Did it scare you or not? Of course. So, we went. And that's why I took on the project, not even to enter it, but to finish it. I just wanted to enjoy doing the most difficult race in the world. At some point, it clicked in my head, "crack," and I said, "I'm going to start preparing." And it took me eight months to prepare, which, for practical purposes, for the Sahara, is very little time. It's a really difficult race. It's what people prepare for a marathon. So, imagine. And I'm an engineer. So, my engineer's mind started working on absolute details. Because I put my energy into being efficient.

Tell me about the science of your training.

I put my energy into being efficient. The question I asked myself was: "How do I compensate for my lack of athletic performance?" And I said, "I'm going to compensate through engineering." So, the less weight I carry, the less weight, in the explicit metaphor here. So, I started reviewing everything. When I started carrying music in the first backpack, I carried 7 shuffle players with the same playlist because there's nowhere to charge them. So, I took 7 for each day and a backup on the GoPro. I took seven batteries. When I started all this, it was a kilo. There has to be a way for me to listen to music and make videos. A solar panel, 122 grams, the plate was enough, it gave me energy to complete this. I bought it. I cooked it in the backpack. Sun. I solved the issue. Toothbrush, the same story. Why carry the whole stick if you can cut off the tiny little piece? Why carry the paste if you could carry everything? And the backpack, instead of 15 kilos, ended up weighing 8.40 kilos. And there, I learned, perhaps, the big difference between the important and the essential. And I said, "I'm going with the essential." The 15 kilos was the important. The 8.4 was the essential. The rest of the training, the athletic part, because you trained in saunas, and I suppose you surrounded yourself with a team that helped you? No, this isn't done. Of course. Yes. I started alone. And then, and this is what I often tell, when you're focused, all your energy is almost on that. You're always thinking about it, always thinking about how to solve it, how to improve, who to ask, what to do. And the conclusion was: "I'm going to train myself in several aspects." The first, psychological. Everyone says the mind is important, that with the mind, you can do anything, and everything. And for some reason, we try everything except the mind. It must be for the same premise, as the mind can do it.

So then why train her if she can already do everything? I planned it backwards. If without training she can do everything, imagine training her. So I said, I'm going to look for help and psychological training, without knowing what I was getting into. The other was physical, the other was about nutrition, and the other was about physiotherapy. Because in the blogs I was reading, it was about physical abuse and everything. And my conclusion was: the more flexible I arrive at the race, the less impact it has. Because imagine, just imagine a robot running, the impact with each step. And now imagine that same robot made of rubber. So it's much more flexible. So I said, I'm going to become, I'm going to make myself as flexible as possible to have less impact with each stride. I'm talking about it engineering-wise now. And the other is, let's simulate conditions. So I was going to run, and I simulated it in two parts. On Saturday, from the humid part, although it's actually very dry, but because of the heat and the sand. So I ran on weekends in sand, dry sand, wet sand, moist sand, dry, dry, dry, depending on the heat. In a sauna, it occurred to me once to get into a sauna and I said, it works here. And I put a treadmill in and I ran in a sauna. I mean, I ran in a sauna, there, with the humidity and the heat and the discomfort. And I also listened to music that I didn't like. Because in this psychological training, they said, I have to go, and in a very colloquial way, I have to go with my head strong. So how do you make a head strong by making it uncomfortable? So I ran listening to music that I didn't like, which in the end I liked. Vallenato music, in the end I liked it. So listening to it for four to five hours a day, I was already listening to mass. Imagine, one in the afternoon, I was running in Guayaquil, a city with 32 degrees Celsius, 90 percent humidity, with a jacket with hot water in the backpack, and listening to mass. Independently of the religious aspect, listening to mass because I was complicating the scenario. I was going to the Sahara, and I had to understand that I was going to the hottest place on Earth. What did you listen to in the race? Did you change music? No, no, no, no, no, no. I took music with me, and it would have been more complicated. I had several folders. I had music that I liked at the moment, with which I felt good. Then I had songs that I liked because mentally they took me to a specific part of my life. For example, listening to Macarena, you remember your first party when you went alone at 14, at 15. I also took specific moments from books, audiobooks that I highlighted and everything, I took them with me. I also took some comedy in audio. It's trying to... 2014 would have been great, making several podcasts and everything. And I also took moments of pride, pride and emotion. For example, I took the match against Uruguay, the football match against Uruguay when we qualified for our first World Cup. So I was listening to the match there. I had already been running for two hours and I was still excited. So when they scored the qualifying goal, I vibrated and everything. I took the entire narration of our first gold medal, which Jefferson Pérez won in the 21-kilometer race. I took those two-plus hours narrated. So I really took stories of my Ecuadorian pride that motivated me. It's not saying, they achieved it, I am achieving it. And this psychological work, what did it consist of? What kind of conversations did you have with your therapist? Were they exercises? Yes, yes, it was all of this that I just told you. It's more mine, saying, this can work. In the end, it worked, and that's why I do it better each time. And at the beginning, with therapy, we did a lot of visualizations, which today I understand as self-fulfilling prophecies. This week, a friend named Luis, Luis just finished his first Ironman in Italy. And I accompanied him in his process. At one point, he was overweight, smoked, had a hectic, stressful life, and everything we would mistakenly think is normal. At some point, he decides to start moving his body, he gets excited, he starts advancing on this path. He is diagnosed with cancer, loses a kidney. And instead of getting discouraged, he says, this is the moment to go to the next level. And he decides to do a full Ironman, which is what he just did on Sunday. And he tells me, I just want you to help me by accompanying me in the process. And I did it with great pleasure. And one of the questions I asked him at the time was, how are you going to arrive? So he would say, how did you arrive? How are you going to arrive? The finish line, I'm running. So, the last meters, and then, yes. What are you going to do? And the idea was to ask him the specific detail. So, that last line, are you going to cross it with your left foot, with your right? Are you going to raise your hand or not? 50 meters before, some people pass by touching, and the people on the sides, some people go down and pass walking, some people look at the sky and thank God or their family, whatever. How are you going to do it? No, I'm going to raise my arms. Like this? Show me. And what we were doing, because today I understand it, is the more elements you give your brain, the more real you are making it. So, what you are going to do is more real. I knew, I knew, Oso, in Antarctica, with which foot I was going to cross. I knew, I knew where my left or right hand was going to be at that moment. I had seen it so many times that when I crossed it, I couldn't tell the difference. And it was real or fake. And today I understand it, the brain truly doesn't differentiate. It doesn't differentiate the real from the unreal. So if you don't differentiate, everything is unreal. That which doesn't exist yet, seize that magnificent opportunity to create it, to create it. I knew, look, this just reminded me right now. I knew where I was going to be when I was going to open the acceptance letter from Zamorano. The letter arrived, and I was in that spot, sitting on the bed, with my feet raised there on the wood. There was no one. I locked myself in there, I opened the little letter. Now that I'm telling you, I remember the sound of how the seal breaks. And the beautiful thing is that it happens before it happens. The Sahara left me several, several lessons, several learnings. I understand you learned something very valuable from a French competitor. Day 4, I had planned the Sahara in six days. Each day for me was a race, and each day I had divided it into six bags. So every time I ate, I had taken six bags, in each bag six small bags with immense numbers: one, two, three, four, five, six. Because I said, I'm going to be more and more tired. So I have to make life easy for myself. Very large numbers: one, two, three, four, five, six. And the initial big achievement was to reach the middle of the race, the point of no return. For me, it was very important to reach the point of no return. And I was going to reward myself by eating something that, inefficiently, was heavier than I needed for the race, but it gave me a personal gain: tuna in a pouch. So I took a pouch of tuna. And I wanted to eat that tuna. In fact, I went to the company that sold it and I said, has no one eaten tuna in the desert? And I don't think it will happen. I'm going to do it. Seeking sponsorship. And the answer was no. I ate it anyway, because the personal gain was on the other side, in rewarding myself. And yes, I reached the third day. I dared with the tuna, I slept happily. I was already at the point of no return. And I knew that the points of no return that I had experienced in my life, I had fulfilled them. So I said, I've got it. Day four, because of that emotion, I got careless and made a mistake. I packed the backpack badly. I put the alcohol tablets that allowed me to make fire in the pocket of the protein tablets, in these little bags of 1, 2, 3, 4. I put them there. The sun the next day volatilized the alcohol. It mixed with the protein. When I made the shake, it tasted like gasoline. And when it tasted like gasoline, I said, no way. I mean, I'm thinking I'm intoxicated. It must be the heatstroke, the sun, the fatigue, whatever. The point is, yes, I was intoxicated. And, honestly, I felt super weak, super weak in the Sahara, dizzy and everything. At that moment, I wanted to abandon it. I took off the bag, I sat down to cry because I felt lost. A runner passes by, who today I know is French. She gives me her hand, she doesn't say anything to me, and she accompanies me to keep walking, emotionally recovered, a kilometer later, perhaps. And I always had doubts if she existed or not. So, did she exist or not? I mean, who stops in the desert and accompanies you for a kilometer? Well, they kept going, and millions of... My objective was to reach the camp. I wanted to reach the camp to look for her. And I found her. And she told me, when I saw you lying on the ground, I have gone through many moments like this, and I knew what was happening to you, and I didn't need any words, I just needed a hand. And in life, you have two specific moments: when you have the opportunity to help, and when you ask for help. And when you have the opportunity to help, do it with compassion, not from top to bottom, not out of pity, not out of sadness, or anything like that. Do it with dignity, be compassionate, attend to and treat people as equals. Help truly. And when you have to ask for help, and someone wants to give it to you, fortunately, raise your hand with humility. Because from humility comes greatness. And hopefully, you have more opportunities to help than to be helped. And with a tremendous phrase, imagine. And she did just that. We both did. At the end of the day, she gave me her hand with compassion, and I raised my hand with humility. A tremendously powerful human mix. You finished the race? I finished the race. I finished the race. There were 10 kilometers left. The organization stops you, I don't know if everyone, but me. They put their hand on your shoulder and say, Millán, we're going to ask you two unique questions: What's your name, and what country are you from? And I don't know how long it took me, or in what condition I arrived. I managed to answer, my name is Millán Ludeña, and I am from Ecuador. They tell me, I'm glad you're conscious. You have 10 kilometers left. You've run 230 kilometers. You only have 10 left. Link those 10 kilometers to whatever you want. In my case, it was two laps around the park. And thank whoever you have to thank. In fact, now that I'm telling you, I'm remembering the music of this arrival that I was listening to. And yes, they were eternal meters, small, brutal. It allowed me to thank all my family. I was thinking of them. Thank God. And when I crossed the line, I realized that it wasn't as long as they told me, that it wasn't as difficult as I imagined, that it wasn't as brutally dreadful as I supposed. It was just, and it was quite similar to what I thought every day when I was training, 5 kilometers or 6 kilometers. And so, when you cross it, it seems that the impossible is not so impossible. And there I started to disrespect that word. There I felt that I became disrespectful of the word impossible. So for me, months ago, it was. And there I also understood that all those who told me that it was impossible, then, then I started calling them, almost as an act of irony, to ask them, you who told me it was impossible, in what year did you go? No one had gone. As you imagine, and it's precisely because we love to give opinions without knowing the context, and we can't stand the idea of others' success out of our own selfishness. Tell me a dream or tell me something you want to do, also consider the simple scenario that you can achieve it, and that would make me, in quotes, successful, because I'm achieving something I want. And I think unfortunately, sometimes we can forgive everything except success. And the only way not to feel courage in the future towards you is to convince yourself not to try. Because I decided not to try. And as I always believe I am right, the right thing would also be that you don't try. This is something that you, as a psychologist, must know: cognitive dissonance. I feel so bad that I can't do it, and even though I would like to, I'm having this conflict between my desire and my non-desire, my inability. So, to not feel less, I better make everyone else less. Here the business is that no one does anything. But why? Because I'm doing nothing. And here, this part is very important. And why is it important to think carefully about who we are meeting with? Because if I were doing something, the business is that everyone is doing something. Clearly, seriously review, seriously review every time the next time we plan a project, a dream, something ambitious, review the answer. Why is that? If I'm doing nothing, the business is that everyone around me is doing nothing. And anyone who dares to try something is either expelled from us, or we put all our intelligence to convince you that it makes no sense. The tulip is decapitated, the tulip is decapitated. Of course. On the other hand, if I were pursuing something, and you come to the café to tell me you're going to pursue something, I'd love it because I'm no longer alone. And from the heat, it jumps to the cold. 100 kilometers in the coldest place on Earth. I don't return from the Rambo day. The truth is, I had finished the most difficult race. Imagine, without being a full-time runner. And as the cycle closed, I was thinking, what else? And in some of those moments, it happens: What if you run in the coldest place? And the question was immediate: Where is the coldest place on Earth? I didn't know. I suspected it was in one of the two poles. And then I realize it was in Antarctica. The challenge: 100 kilometers at 34 to 36 degrees below zero, without stopping. 100 kilometers. 100 kilometers. The challenge was clear. And basically, in those stages, here it's a single day. Because if you stop, you freeze. And if you eat, you die. In Antarctica, there are no hospitals, no airports, nothing. The most isolated place. And for some reason, they accepted me. 11 people that year: one woman from Singapore, nine Vikings, and me. Russians, Nordics. And so I start training in Ecuador. What's the difference between your training for the Sahara and your training for this? For example, in the Sahara, we knew I was going to go with the least amount of fat possible, because fat generates heat. So I needed to be very efficient in my thermal self-regulation. In Antarctica, I trained for eight consecutive months physically. And the last month, we only focused on increasing fat, on fat accumulation, to go like a seal, sufficiently strong. Only that the fat, in this case, was going to give me heat, it was going to maintain my temperature. What was your body fat percentage before the Sahara and before Antarctica? Before the Sahara, it might have been 14%, maybe 13%, yes, maybe. And in Antarctica, yes, it was 27%, 28%. Of course, of course, much more fat. And it wasn't great because we didn't understand it. And it was, again, we marked it with engineering. Now, give me a team to train. And I think it's a learning that I love at a business level. I think the key is to channel individual motivations. It's not that you have a motivation and your team eternally pursues it, and that's the premise. So, we have to do this because I want to do it. The key, I think, is if I identify what moves each person and manage to channel it, it's great. And in my case, none of my team had taken someone to Antarctica and brought them back alive. So the coach surely started reading a lot more about physical training for extreme conditions, sub-zero temperatures, nutrition, psychology, and everything. So, each person dedicated more time, out of passion, to their professional challenge. I as a coach will do this, I as a psychologist will do this. So, in the end, everyone was challenging themselves to undertake this Antarctic adventure. And well, that's what we did. Nine months of training. The question was basic: Where did we train? Where did we train? In Ecuador, there are very high and very cold places. Only at that altitude, you can't run as you should. So we said, it's not going that way. And one day, I was watching Rocky, and I thought of a cold room, and it clicked for me. I said, in a cold room. In fact, I go to the main chain in Ecuador of supermarkets, to the freezers. And you're planning a madness. I mean, you're going to have cross-contamination, with the food in the freezer. I mean, you could be killing a lot of people. It has to be an inert material. Okay. Second attempt: flower freezers. Only it was too far from Quito. I couldn't meet my work schedule and go to work. And one day, at a party, I saw a type standing in a corner with a glass of whiskey, giving it and turning the glass, and the ice cubes were playing there. I said, clear, an ice factory. That's also cross-contamination, of course. Only I found a factory that I suppose is illegal. A small factory and everything. And I say, clear, what time does it open? At 8. Okay, rent it to me from 4 to 8. Type, he didn't understand. Four, four, 8 AM. Rent it to me at those hours. He didn't understand. And when people arrive, you're no longer there. I'm no longer there. And, of course, I went in with everything, the night before, the door closed. So it's colder, minus 7, minus 8. Then I would enter to run. At first, we brought an electric treadmill, which broke due to humidity. Then I got a manual treadmill for knees, the roller one. And there I spent it. I bought a piece of fabric and hung it like a projection screen. So it was a piece of fabric, and I ran in front of the fabric. And the only thing I saw was white, because the fabric, because I was simulating the conditions. It had already worked for me in the Sahara. The message of simulating conditions had already worked for me. And here I said, I'm going to improve it. So, I'm going to simulate the conditions. I'm going to be there in a place where, perceptually, I'm not moving. I'm on a treadmill. The walls don't change. I only see white. I only see white. I allow myself to try on clothes, and above all, and this I had never experienced, to see how water turns into ice. I don't need to see how water turns into ice at a specific point. So, in theory, at a specific point. And it seemed mentally exhausting to wait for the exact moment when the water turns into ice. The same story. I was simulating the greatest amount of energy in the perfect scenario. And that's what I did. And why from 4 to 8? Basically, for a matter of the plant, and also for a matter of work. I had to go and fulfill my work schedule. And everything. And look how everything changes. To install the four, I had to get up at three. And to be there at three, I had to sleep much earlier the day before. So, in the end, we can always adapt. Only, we don't know how to adapt our day. For what? If I don't have a clear idea of what for, how am I going to adapt it? How... there I understood it. Besides the obvious things like the cold, what other change did you make? Besides nutrition, the cold, what else did you focus on to prepare for this? I focused a lot on understanding the cold. It's like I immersed myself in this world of trying to understand the cold. Yes, I saw in Quito, a city with seven, eight degrees, with rain, maybe down to four, five. I went out to run. I went out to run to get wet and feel the cold, and to understand the cold. I mean, I really wanted to know how people who live with cold all year round were. So I simulated that. I stopped showering with hot water, only with cold water for a year. And I stopped sleeping under the duvet. I slept under... I mean, the bed, the room, I opened all the windows and slept. And I would huddle up at night. I would get up and everything, until eventually I could sleep in the cold. I could shower with my grandmother. I could run in the rain without feeling... I mean, I got sick less and less with the flu after running. And basically, I was strengthening my immune system. Because what awaited me was that. The same story. You're going to Antarctica, not to Chihuahua, which is perhaps the coldest place here. Was that an idea? No, no. I was really going to Antarctica, and I had to prepare at that level of demand. Ever, I don't know in what year this was, 2016, probably. It wasn't as popular as it is now, but have you tried the Wim Hof method? Have you gotten into the ice baths? Yes, yes. When I was preparing this, and I was very focused, I knew about it. I mean, I knew it existed. I wanted to do the program, but I didn't have enough money. So I couldn't. And yes, yes, yes, yes. I was... I discovered it, I think, about six months before. I think it cost $8,000, I don't remember exactly at the time. And yes, I was willing to go and train in that. And everything. You say, look, you're still working, and you say you were looking for sponsors, you're doing these trips that in themselves are just expeditions that sound very expensive. How are you financing this? It was also a process. At first, at first, well, this first race was a hobby, I paid for it myself. The second race, when I went to Argentine Patagonia to run 360 kilometers, it cost about $1,800 in total. And a friend sponsored me with $100 and told me, I'll give you $100, and you sell everything. So, maybe doing the same thing, but the issue was resolved. The Sahara cost $14,000. I managed to raise $10,000 in financing, and I put $4,000 of my own pocket. Antarctica cost $25,000. There I got $20,000, and I put $5,000 of my own pocket. In the end, I always contributed to what I was looking for. But I managed to finance a complete race before starting the race. Before Antarctica, you took a selfie. Tell me about that moment. That's a tough moment. Normally, I take selfies in pleasant moments. So, I'm with my friends or my girlfriend or somewhere, and we take a selfie, and we associate it with a beautiful place. When I came out of the igloo, where I had been for more than three days, waiting for the window of opportunity to run 100 kilometers, and I came out. I mean, when I opened the zipper of the igloo, I said, there's no turning back. The point of no return. And I knew that by leaving the igloo, there was really no way to return. And I remembered my parents. I managed to take a selfie, and I gave it to the organization and said, give this photo to my parents, and I won't make it. Thank you very much for the life you gave me and everything you did for me, as an improvised farewell tribute, something like that. And from there, I handed it over. They kept it. I saw that they kept it. And that made me more anxious. I became much more anxious with that. When they really took the phone, they grabbed it, and with the seriousness of the case, they put it away immediately. I mean, they really treasured it. So I said, they are indeed considering it as an option. Of course. With the formality with which they kept it, I said, I really went to run much more anxious with that. And from there, I had a mental transition process, of leaving that and returning to what I had come for. So, this phrase appears, which is also a mantra of mine: "To what we came for." So, you've worked on it for weeks, months, years, whatever. You're already there. So, "to what we came for." It's normal for doubts to be present. It's normal for fear to be present. It's normal, all of that. Only, now, "to what we came for." And there you put the focus on what you really have to do. I don't know if this is the first time you've experienced this, but at that moment, you certainly came face to face with the option of dying. Yes. Not like, this is the worst that could happen. I'm here. It can happen. And they believe it. And at that moment, when you are perhaps facing death, or the option of dying, what goes through your mind? You've said you think about the things you didn't get to try. Yes. When I took the selfie, in the first phase of this mental shift, I was already running. It's hard to take a selfie with the following questions: What would I have liked to do and I ran out of time? What would I have liked to do? I had everything to do it and I didn't. And if you wanted to make an inventory of regrets, what would I regret right now? And you remember the things that came to your mind. And with the third, and I also realized, by answering myself, that I wasn't regretting something I had tried and it hadn't worked out. I was regretting what I wanted to do and didn't do. And that's why I now want to reach my last days with the fewest possible regrets about the things I wanted to do and didn't do, rather than the attempts. And those things, I already realized that when I make the inventory, I won't count them. I'll be worried about what I think the other thing is. And that's why, and that's why I think I really like this logic of dedicating my life to trying to connect with a purpose that now I feel is becoming clearer and clearer. And to know that I'm doing something, I mean, to know that I'm getting up for something. What is that purpose today? Right now, with the conferences, and when you resolve to be a speaker. At first, yes, you tell your story, and the likes or the applause are nice because it's a form of recognition of what you've been walking. Until the first messages arrive. And the messages that arrive, with the messages, I started to think, wow, this isn't a conference, this is really a life tool. And it could really add value. And so, if it adds value, let it add value to more people, to as many people as possible. That's why I started this world of psychology. That's why I started studying my next career as a psychologist. That's why I'm working on master's degrees in therapy, in NLP, and everything, because I want to have the best possible tools from a story to keep adding value. I love it, I love that idea that this story can contribute to whatever you want to do. I want to go back to Antarctica for a moment. Because during the Sahara, you talk about this moment of mixing pills. Like the most difficult moment of the race. What was the hardest moment you experienced with unforeseen events? We said, what if you have inflammation and with that you're going to slow down and therefore you're going to get colder faster. So we carried an analgesic, liquid, in a syringe, taped to the chest. I mean, to the chest, chest, chest, with one of those silver tapes. I taped it there, and I carried my syringe there, and on top of the mountain clothes. This is so it wouldn't freeze, and this is so it wouldn't freeze. Of course. Because, and, in reality, it was perfect. Several gels froze. I realized it during the race. So when you take them out, they're already frozen. And well, the water in the hose had frozen. The hose was missing neoprene, a band, and I had to improvise things. In any case, this syringe was taped to the chest. This one did work. It stayed there. This analgesic. And at kilometer 63, I start to... because the tendon, this band, it got inflamed, and I was slowing down. And I felt that I was getting much colder than I felt. I look back, there's no one. I look ahead, there's no one. Remember, 100 kilometers, 11 people. After 60 kilometers, and everyone is on their own. And they say, I don't have much time here. So, I was avoiding the syringe because it would be the first time I would self-inject. And one thing is a movie, and another thing is... And I was avoiding it. I kept walking, avoiding it, until my chest started to hurt. When you breathe, the rib cage moves. When you're frozen, it feels more because certain things are breaking. And that's when I said, I have to do it. I have to do it. So I start to take off the zippers. I start to... as best I can. I lie down there on the... what's it called? On the ice. I look back, somewhere else. And I just injected myself as best I could. Surely badly. I injected it. And I also knew that I had to do it quickly. That I had to take off my gloves. So, really. And also knowing, look at that, that I couldn't scream. Because if I screamed, I would open my mouth, and the frozen air would get in. So, I really injected myself. It worked. I felt that the leg warmed up, fortunately. And I also felt a kind of... May. Surely it was a very short time. It was an epileptic seizure. If I have a seizure here, I'm dead. Then I got up and said, the failure was that I only brought one syringe. The rest of the body was frozen. I mean, it was already a piece of frozen meat. So, imagine a piece of frozen meat. Try to bend it, the fibers will break. And I knew I had to keep moving. And getting colder and colder. And therefore, the fibers would hurt me. And well, and I took a step, and I entrusted myself to God. And one after another, and after another, and after another. And fortunately, I was able to overcome that gap. How was walking the race? It's already the last lap, and you could already see the camp. I mean, the only thing that isn't white. You could already see the camp. And I approach. I looked for my flag. I didn't have it. And in this race, they put the flagpoles before you reach the finish line. And the idea is that you arrive, you detach the pole, you cross the finish line, and you bury it on the other side. They actually break the ice and cover it again so they can really bury it. So, I grab that. I grab my flag, and I bury it. And the Americans and the Russians jumping. And everyone was telling me, welcome. And I, welcome to what? Yes, I was fed up with running in that thing, and I was very scared. And I sit down. You're understanding. I mean, there are 14 people in the world who have been able to run more than 100 kilometers in the hottest place on Earth, and also in the coldest. And you've just joined that group. And I knew that only 12 people in the world had stepped on the moon. 14. Wow. And for me, it was incredible, incredible. I returned to the igloo. Ah, no, I'm lying. They prick you. They put you in a tub. They put you in a tub of hot water and start pricking each of your 20 fingers. And the idea is that you jump with each prick so that the tissue is alive. And yes, in one, I didn't feel it. They pricked it again, and then I jumped. And it's the first time that I wanted to be pricked, and that it hurt, and that it hurt. And from there, I went to the igloo. Again, I just took a selfie. I took a selfie because that selfie, if it reached my parents, and it was beautiful. I mean, taking the photo right after finishing this 100-kilometer race. It took me 16 hours and 18 minutes. And I think I consumed about 32,000 calories, something brutal. And well, that's it. In those kinds of things. I return to Ecuador, and more calm, more calm. And from there, the next question appears. It wasn't that the cycle had closed. I was in that zone of, and what else? And what? And this appears about the Chilean miners. Do you remember? Yes, in 2010, I was watching an old documentary, and the journalist comments, and says, "We are extracting them from the deepest point on Earth." And I questioned that sentence. I said, "Is it the deepest point?" I started to search, and well, the answer is that it's not the deepest point on Earth. The deepest point on Earth is in South Africa. The miners are 700 meters below the earth, 70020. And this point is five times deeper, 3,500-plus meters deep. And it's a mine. It's a gold mine. It's the largest gold mine on Earth. They have the production, imagine, 50% of the world's gold is there, it's produced there. And what I say is, and I also understand that at the deepest point of that mine, in a space of one kilometer, they have a space of one kilometer. And I said, I'm going to run 21 kilometers there. I'm going to run a half marathon at the deepest point on Earth. I'm running it. And in Ecuador, they had just made the update of the point closest to the sun, which is in Ecuador, on the summit of the Chimborazo volcano, 6,000-plus meters. And so I say, well, if I'm already at the deepest point, why not connect it with the closest point to the sun? And this whole project begins. And I start telling it, and everyone says, "You're crazy, what's wrong with you?" And less and less. I see a precedent, perhaps. And also the pain of receiving rejection was less. You're starting to understand that impossibles are just a word, and rejection is perhaps temporary at first. And well, the rest, excited, "Make me a much more solid, much more intense team." A friend tells me, "What you're going to do is Netflix." And at that moment, I was thinking of two GoPros and the runner, because that's all I wanted to do. Only, that little bug stayed with me. And you say, "Well, why not?" I mean, since we're there. And the first question we asked with the team was, "Who has done it?" And we had no answer. That's why we went to Guinness World Records. And in the matrix, in England, we presented, "Who has done it?" And the Briton tells me, "No human has ever attempted it." And I, imprudently, say, "You know what? My team will do it." And the guy, and the guy looks at me strangely. And I found it interesting that he looked at me strangely. He's supposed to be used to weird things. And he tells me, "If you attempt it, Guinness World Records will endorse it." And in the end, I got scared. I said, "Shit, I just made a blog that didn't work out, maybe." So, let's do it. And then he tells me, "And surely you're going to make a movie." And I don't know how he said it. What I know is how I received it. And I received it in an ironic, challenging tone. And I already had this bug, the one of doing it as a movie. And I think this gentleman gave me the push, quite similar to years ago, when you know you're going to vote, because we already knew you were going to vote. Or perhaps decades ago, when you had the doctor telling you, "You know what, Millán, you're not going to do anything in life. Since you're going to faint, I suggest, as a doctor, that you don't do anything." And there, I think the element I'm remembering right now, in front of you, Oso, is that these are elements of impositions, of recipes, of impositions of destiny. And I think they make much more sense to me than what my mother told me on the bus: "Learn to reject your destiny," because it's very human to give opinions about others' destinies without wanting to take even a centimeter of responsibility for what we're saying, condemning them. So I said, "You know what? I like the idea of the movie. Let's do it." Faith. And how was the challenge of filming this movie? Because you bring the sports challenge. Yes, you're going to train, I suppose running below the Earth's surface has implications in terms of oxygenation, pressure, temperature. And around that, you have to manage a club of, I don't know how many people, producing a documentary. Yes, it was... Look, I return with the bug of a movie, without knowing what a movie is, and what it implies to be a movie. And I start knocking on doors, and the rejections start to arrive. And out of a thousand doors, the Minister of Tourism in my country arrives. And I tell him, "I have an idea for a commercial for Ecuador, because half of it will be in Ecuador, and I'm going to the deepest point on Earth, and I'm going to connect it with the closest point to the sun." The minister was suspecting that Chimborazo was indeed the closest point to the sun. He confirmed it there. In fact, Chimborazo is two kilometers closer to the sun than Everest. And it's worth it as a brutal, brutal element. And he loved the idea and told me, "How can I help you?" "Help me with a documentary." And at that moment, I was still thinking of a five-minute documentary, because I wanted him to help me with a five-minute documentary. And the minister says, "Get a production company that's worth it, because making a one-and-a-half-hour documentary is no small thing." And there I realize that I never said one and a half hours, nor did I say five minutes. And what I thought was, "Well, if you're going to pay for it, and you want to pay for it, then let's make it an hour." So I go, and it takes me about two more months to find a production company. How did you evaluate the production company options you had? I mean, what were the requirements to take people to the center of the Earth? The evaluation, and this is ironic, the evaluation was very easy. Because the production companies to which I quoted, the same production companies, were not sure they could do it. They quoted something that they said, "Only, we won't be able to do this." It's impressive when we buy into the idea that it can't be done, that it's impossible. There's not much to do. I was a client, and even so, and the danger with that.

It is that if a production company is convinced that it is not going to do it, it will bring all the equipment to convince itself that it cannot do it. It is impressive. He must be highly obedient, and effectively, whatever our mind proposes, that will happen. So I said, this is not the way, this is not the way, this is not the way. Fifth option, I contacted an Ecuadorian company. One of the partners is Jeff, he is Canadian. Perhaps with another mindset, he says very honestly, we have not gone to the deepest point on Earth. I suspect we could do it, and we want to try. I'll send you the quote. I said, the guy is very clear that he wants to try, and I do too. I grabbed that quote and went to the minister and told him, Minister, here it is. He tells me, good for you. The president of the republic just asked me for my job. I was left hanging, hanging, and already excited, hanging. My two GoPros have returned. I leave the office and call him yesterday and tell him, the one who was going to pay you no longer exists, and I cannot pay this. So, thank you very much for your time, everything. I can't do anything else. Don't hang up. I want to make a movie, and you have a story. Let's become partners, and the commitment is that you dive in headfirst. It doesn't matter how much you have, how much you want to contribute. We will do our best to finance the rest, but you, up to your neck. And then I understood. We return to the plan. Stop flirting with the rest of the alphabet. So I grabbed my savings at that moment, and we went, and then we had a next plan. When we got 70% of the movie's production budget, we started filming. When the mine gives us approval after four months, they say the only day they can film is August 21st. It's the only day we stop in the year. Considering August 21st, the production time for the shots and the acquisition of money, we only had 15 days left to reach 70%. And I think we had 12%. Those 15 days ended. We didn't reach the goal. And the question was valid: do we cancel the project or do we go into debt? And I think one has to stop playing without risks. So we went into debt to finance this movie and started filming to reach August 21st to be able to get to the deepest point on Earth. August 21st, and the equivalent of August 22nd, it's advancing to the point closest to the Sun. Two years later, it becomes the highest-grossing documentary film in my country. It's on air on IMDb, I think it's at 7.58, I think. It's already on Amazon Prime, it's already on iTunes. We haven't managed to reach Netflix yet. We are very seriously on our way to that. I have a mockup in my little head, because it's there, because I am truly convinced that if I can see it, I can believe it. And if I believe it, it makes more sense for my brain to follow it, for whoever wants to see it. It's called Abundance, it's called From Core to Surface. I saw it, I think, on YouTube, or I don't know if it was pirated. I'm going to do it when it was just coming out, when it wasn't anywhere. And you can see it on Amazon Prime, on iTunes. We'll leave the links in the episode notes at cracks.la so you don't miss anything. Thank you. And yes, it's a story, and it's a documentary story. The director, Oliver Garden, loves the idea because there was no room to repeat scenes, a real-time documentary. And the second protagonist is not an actor. So it's really a story about how to connect the deepest point on the planet with the point closest to the Sun for the first time in history. And I achieve the first sports Guinness World Record for my country. And there we are. And today, walking on Netflix. Something you don't talk about much is that you are also an entrepreneur, right? And you have a company, and I don't know how much time you dedicate to that now, but how do all these physical sports challenges compare to running a company? How do they prepare you to be an entrepreneur? I think my training to be an entrepreneur was these races. Really, every time I see much closer elements, much closer. This topic I was telling you about, about trusting. You trust that things will turn out well because that's what allows you to try. It's what allows you to think with your partner, meet, and say, let's do this. Let's do it. We don't know who will do it. We don't know who will do it well, or we'll start on the way, or we'll look for experts, and everything. Things don't always turn out like your excellent PowerPoint. And I think it seems perfect to me. It seems very beautiful. Even this interview they do, I think Eisenhower, and he says, what were the key elements to win this war? And he says, and he says, having a plan. Even if we never executed it, we always had a plan. And I think what the plan gives you is the confidence that it can be done. Finally, damn it, whether you achieved the plan or not, whether you did it or not. The plan gives you the peace of mind that it can be done in Excel, that in your PowerPoint you will grow by 23% every year. It's beautiful, great. It's wonderful to think that it will happen like that, because that's what will allow you to try it day by day. Because after five years, it won't matter if you grew by 22% or 26%. Maybe you'll be interested in growing and say, I'm happy for everything we've achieved. There's no way you'll get frustrated because the Excel said 23% and we achieved 28%. The plan, I think, gives us the wonder of creating the present from the future. The brain doesn't differentiate between real and unreal, present and future. So it's worth taking advantage of that. And inventing the life we want. To what you commented a moment ago, you decided to become a speaker five years ago, right? And one thing you didn't mention is that you had a small handicap, which was stuttering, and becoming a speaker when you stutter doesn't sound like the most viable option. Tell me how you faced this problem and what you learned to do. It's incredible. I loved it when I decided to be a speaker, and I was looking, and I said, this is a story that can add value. And I tell my best friend, today my compadre, today my partner in one of the companies, and he tells me, I feel that in the best and most beautiful way possible, he tells me, I don't know if you're listening to yourself, and I don't know how interesting it could be to see you on stage stumbling a bit, and you're going to make me very tense for an hour because I don't know what you want to explain to me. So, at that time, and this must have been 36 years ago, maybe 37, no, 37 years ago, I realized that I had been thinking for 37 years that I was a stutterer due to my epileptic reality. And when I realized it and said, if I want to be a speaker, and my ability to speak fluently is getting in the way, then I have to solve my ability to speak fluently. In the documentary, it's noticeable that you stutter. I don't know. I do notice it. I don't know if this conversation, now, those who are listening, surely not. I didn't realize it yet, but you are no longer. I no longer consider myself one, of course. And what happened? At that time, my excuse for not speaking well was being epileptic. When it got in the way of what I wanted, it became a problem. And one solves problems, not excuses. So when one goes from pretext to pretext, nothing will be done. Your cognitive capacity to solve it is a pretext. It's not configured to solve a pretext. It's configured to solve a problem. Do you want to use it and think with your little head? Give it a problem. That's why you manage to pay that damn credit card every month. That's why when a new child arrives at home, your economic conditions improve. That's why you manage to change houses. That's why you manage to do many things, because they become a problem at some point, not an excuse. The brain is for that. So my problem was not being able to speak. So the immediate question is, how do I make myself speak well? And I start looking for therapy. I didn't know there were specialists in speech therapy. And I realize I was breathing wrong. What does breathing wrong mean? I breathed a lot with my chest, and I didn't give myself time for there to be these pauses to express all the valuation. So when I said, damn, I'm going to stumble on this word, I started to lower the tone, change my voice, to slow down what I was saying so that I would have time to look for a synonym for the word I was going to stumble on. So it doesn't start, and I stumble. So, well, and I keep talking like this. It's impressive. And every time I realized I could control the times I was going to stumble, until one day I could surely speak a complete paragraph. And I remembered the first time that, as they call it here in Mexico, when something happens, when, for example, you're going to light a firecracker, before it explodes and the fuse goes out. And I remembered when I could speak a whole paragraph. Once, during a crisis, a seizure, I was with my friends, and my hand started to tremble. I got scared. I went to the bathroom, splashed water on my face, put my hands on the counter, looking at myself in the mirror. I closed my eyes, breathed, and everything, and it stopped. And I said, wait a minute. So, there is a way. And sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't. Sometimes I reached the bathroom, sometimes not. Sometimes I fell at the door, and sometimes not. It's just that I already knew that there is a way, and that I could do it more and more. The same thing happened here. When I could finish a paragraph, I said, wait a minute. So, it's possible. And sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't. And so on. And then I decided to start thinking of it as a facilitator. If it's possible, then why not? And in the end, years later, I approach the 350th conference, 14 countries, and counting people, I think we've already surpassed 100,000 people impacted. I've seen your conferences, and just by watching them, in fact, you presented a few hours before or a day before I did recently in Los Cabos, and just by watching your conference, I took not two or three, but many tips that I feel made my conference much better. Thank you. You are a great inspiration. You say you have like all these rituals, and now I saw a video of you where it seems like you're doing one of these rituals before a conference. You take this moment very seriously. Tell me about the minutes or hours before you get on stage, thinking that tomorrow you'll be doing it in front of 15,000 people. Yes, thank you for being here today. Thank you very much. I love thinking that I'm going to talk to someone who wants to do something, who knows they want to do it, who knows they have the resources, and for some damn reason isn't doing it. Perhaps that fear of being perfect, perhaps that fear of rejection. What I know is that I really want to do it, and sometimes I like to think that when I give a conference, this could add value, this could really add value, because I would have loved to hear this when I was 17 years old, something like that. And so I go on stage with a logic of philanthropy rather than egocentrism. It's very attractive to think of the stage as a space to receive applause, likes, and vanity, and all that, and to talk about an absolute "I," "me, me, me." And at the end of the day, little or nothing matters to me. Who is in front of me. I prefer to think about it from what I've lived and what I've learned, how I'm adding value to your life right now. And I think it shows when someone is getting on stage to add value or to collect applause and likes. That's one. That's one. And in the minutes prior, I do vocal warm-ups, like you, a therapist taught me, like musicians do. You warm up your throat and gradually increase it. And you learned this from someone? Have you taken any courses? Of course, in Ecuador. In Ecuador, I have it there. I forgot the name. I have an account, Martín, I have an account there that I'll gladly pass on to you, and we worked a lot on voice, on voice. So you warm up your voice and throat and everything. So I walk around there too, and I prepare myself mentally. I listen to songs that are important to me for specific moments. The video I uploaded yesterday is by Eminem. I love the first part. If you really have an opportunity and to achieve what you've always sought, will you take it or not? It's that. So remember, I allow myself to remember many specific moments in my life with that song. Or, for example, another one by Calle 13 is called "Me Vieron Cruzar," which I heard in the desert. It's exactly that. They are mental anchors that allow me to remember the whole journey. And today, before coming to this event with Tony Robbins, I had several appointments with my psychologist to really focus on this moment, which is important to me. I think it's a before and after in my career as a speaker. And she told me something beautiful. She told me, you know you're going to have your unique opportunity, and you also know that you've always taken advantage of your unique opportunities. And it's beautiful because the science behind this is recognizing that you have the resources to identify opportunities and seize them, to take them. And the second is knowing that this is also an opportunity. So you link that and say, ah, it's a unique opportunity, and I'm good at unique opportunities. So I'm going to take advantage of this one too. You see? It's wonderful. So you put all your energy into that, and you don't put energy into doubts, fears, prejudices, insecurities, which will always be there. Because in the end, I think, my friend, that there are things we control and things we don't in life. Normally, one puts their energy into what they can control, and what they can't, they leave it. But in what they can't control, what they can control is how you want to feel amidst all that we don't control. I can decide 24/7 how I want to feel about it. This psychologist you work with now, as a speaker, is she the same one you worked with when you were an athlete? Yes, they are two psychologists. Lili Portalanza is my sports psychologist, whom I seek out when I most believe I'm going to do this, and we start the process. It's wonderful, and she has guided the whole process and all the fears and everything. And Mariana Falconi is my life psychologist. So with her, I've been in a process for almost two and a half to three years, and I seek her out now whenever I have an important moment, an important moment. So it's nice that you have a go-to psychologist, because she's the person who accompanies you in the key part, as she knows your cognitive evolution. It's wonderful. It's wonderful. I just met with her to arrive with all my focus and energy. This has been a unique opportunity. If you were to take that selfie again, the one you took before starting the race in Antarctica, what would be missing? What would you regret? I always, always wanted to be a father. And I love the idea of having the opportunity to raise children with this, which is increasingly complex, with this value structure. I love the idea that what I know today, I can share with my own blood, to have a wonderful home with the woman I love. It seems to me that when I took that selfie, those were already my life's regrets. And of course, to take another selfie with the same regret, the same regret that on that last day, knowing that perhaps with the resources available, and everything, well, no, it didn't happen. So, I think that's the main thing. That's the main thing right now. I value the importance of family very much. And there's this phrase among mountaineers that says it's not so nice to reach the summit alone. The summit itself is empty. The first mountain I climbed, the only thing I kept asking myself was, this effort must be worth something. One understands that effort brings a reward, and when I reached the summit, I felt such great frustration, my friend, because I received nothing. There was nothing. I had been walking for eight hours for nothing, nothing. And I came down annoyed because I never received the reward. I didn't understand what the reward was. And when I was coming down annoyed, I looked up and saw the landscape, and I realized that I had missed the entire landscape of my life waiting for a prize that never existed, because the prize was always there. And that's it. It's the beauty of walking the path. And I think walking it with family can be more beautiful. Your conferences talk about your adventures, and I say, although the world is big, what's the next adventure? I've been planning one right now. We're imagining right now. I want to go to space, and I want to have a sports adventure in space. And I'm in that part that I love. I've already passed the first part that I love: What the hell am I going to do? It's done. There's no turning back. And I'm in this part that I call the absurd, where I don't see a path yet on how to move forward. Who do I ask? How does it work? So I'm in all this research, asking everyone, and telling everyone, because perhaps what they teach us is, my son, don't tell your projects because people are envious and won't fulfill them. Later I understood the opposite. Really, tell them because two wonderful things happen. First, by telling them, you allow yourself to hear yourself, and since the brain learns by repetition, at some point you'll believe that it can be done. Tell everyone. And second, we are all friends with someone, and everywhere there are ideas, and everywhere you say, why don't you go to Texas and meet with the people at SpaceX? Why not? And so, really, tell them. And it's not that they'll copy your idea. If they wanted to do it, they already would have. And finally, if they hadn't thought of it, you understand it better than anyone that the path is not that easy, and it's not the same to pursue an idea as to pursue a copy of an idea, because in the second model, you don't completely believe in it, and therefore your brain is not completely convinced that it can be done. And since the path is not easy, at some point you'll give up, and the blame will be on anything. If it helps you, in the "Viernes de Cracks" newsletter, for those who are not subscribed, at cracks.la/viernes, it's free. I talk about a project led by the woman who lived in this biosphere in the 80s. But it's a project for six-hour space trips. I suppose they are capsules pulled by a balloon. So you'll reach, I don't know if the stratosphere. If that qualifies as space for you, then you could have a treadmill up there and do any crazy thing. I'm delighted. I'm delighted. Look at this. Remember, and it launches and everything. I didn't know that six months later, a much older man, 65 years old, went 10 kilometers higher. He's the vice president of Google, who was about to retire or something. In a parachute, he grabs his money, finances a whole NASA team. The problem was, look, the capsule, because of the weight and everything, they make it a whole hot air balloon. He already goes up dressed as an astronaut in this balloon. You've gone through that craziness. I know him. I write to him. To his wife, the same story. There has to be a way to get there. And we talk, and she's telling me many ideas, options on how I could do it. And at the same time, I meet Sebastián, who is working at SpaceX and all that. So, really, don't get tired of telling it. It just happened to me with you right now. It's no longer my son, don't tell it because otherwise you won't do it. It's, I think, the opposite. It's, I think, the opposite. And also, through mirror neurons, people follow passions. When I tell it, almost convinced that I can do it, surely it generates enough confidence in you to say, if this guy is going to do it, and I'm planning this, maybe this can help him. I'll help you. That's the logic. Except that if you had heard me with doubts, surely why propose it like this? That's how it works. That's the importance of believing it, because if you don't believe it, my friend, honestly, it won't be believed. Well, our time is running out, and before we leave, I'd like to ask you one last question. If you had the opportunity to write a message in the sky for millions of people to see, what would it say? What I saw in my neighborhood when I was little, when I was a gang member. I didn't understand it until years later, and it says, if the challenge doesn't make your legs tremble, perhaps it's not big enough for you. Well, this conversation has been incredible. You are certainly a great inspiration as a person, as a speaker, as a friend. We've known each other for a short time, but I truly feel a great friendship growing. You're a crack. Thank you for being here. Where can people follow you? Where can they contact you? Thank you very much. I think it's a wonderful space. On my social media, on Instagram, my account is @millanludena, and all the accounts are like that, on YouTube, everywhere. I'm more involved on Instagram. And so, well, I'd love for you to join us. We create daily content with reflections, above all, and I think the most important thing is from personal experience. I prefer to pay attention to those who are trying things. Anything else you'd like to add? No, in the space, the space of gratitude, the fortune of having met you, your team, of being here now with Mar here, of taking a step forward. And of course, the constant reminder that it's worth trying things, because I do believe that when a chef follows recipes, he's not a chef. Well, thank you very much. Much success tomorrow, right? And we'll see you. Yes, and thank you for being here. We'll see you on stage then. Thank you. Millán is a great inspirer, and I recommend attending one of his conferences if you have the opportunity. If you liked the episode, share it with someone using the link cracks.la/193. Also, follow Cracks Podcast on Spotify or subscribe on YouTube or iTunes, and rate us with five stars so that more people can find us and we can have more and better guests. Mention me on Twitter with the lesson that you learned the most from today's episode, using @osotrava, and don't forget to greet Millán on Instagram at @millanludena. You can find links to everything Millán and I mentioned today in the episode notes by going to cracks.la/193. And before you go, I want to remind you that my book "Haz lo que Importa" is now available in audio on Audible, exclusively, but it's also available again in paperback, and you can find it on Amazon Mexico by simply searching "Haz lo que Importa." Second, don't forget to register to receive the "Viernes de Cracks" newsletter, which is a very short email that arrives every Friday with five tips, articles, books, gadgets, phrases, or things I find on the internet that I think might help you have a more productive life or at least start an interesting conversation this weekend. If you want to receive it, you can do so for free by going to cracks.la/viernes. And if you register very soon, I'll be in your inbox. That's all for today. I'm Oso Traba, and I hope you have a cracking week.