Transcription
[Music] All right, let's go back out to Richmond, Virginia, and talk to Sarah with an H. What's up, Sarah?
Hey, how's it going, Paryan?
What are you up to?
Just sitting at home with the cold.
Um, that sounds awful. What's up?
Yeah, yeah. I just reached out because, um, my husband and I have been married for about seven years, and he just really struggles with a lot of anger and a lot of, um, anxiety. And it just manifests itself into a lot of yelling and screaming. And, um, we have two young kids. I'm pregnant with our third. Um, and, you know, then on top of that, if he gets mad enough at me, he'll break things. Like, he'll break, um, you know, gifts that I've given him, or he'll break, uh, he'll like smash food, or, you know, things that I've bought for myself. Excuse me. Or that type of thing. And it's just really hard for me to know how to handle it. And I guess that's my question is, how do I, how do I navigate this in a way that's healthy? Because, you know, my first instinct when he smashes something that I took a lot of time to pick out for him, or that he even asked for himself, that I bought for a birthday present or something like that, my first reaction is to be like, well, I'm never gonna buy you anything ever again. You know? But I don't, I don't want to be vindictive. I don't want to be, um, bitter. So I'm just trying to figure out how I am supposed to respond in a way that's protecting myself and protecting my kids. Um, yeah.
Oh, man, Sarah. Can I just, can I just cut to the chase and be super honest on some things? Is that okay?
Yeah.
Um, I, I think it's honest. I want to be as honest as I can. Um, this is one of those rare calls that, uh, it, it tightens my upper chest. My wife would say she could see across the room, I see your jaw starting to clench. And we need to go. Yeah, because she, I'm about to get myself into trouble. Okay. This is one of those moments. And so I want you to know that any, in a world that you live in, the world you live in right now, you will be especially attuned to the sharpness in my voice. And I want you to know this is not directed at you. Okay?
Yeah, yeah. Okay.
And I am also talking in circles a little bit to give myself a chance to breathe. Okay?
Okay.
The anger, your, your husband's anger is not the problem here.
Yeah.
Your husband is is a freaking toddler.
Yeah.
And he acts like a child. And a child in a man's body can hurt somebody irreparably. Okay? And you're focused on, well, then I'm just not going to make you gifts anymore. I'm focused on the women I've visited in hospitals before who have their faces knocked in. Yeah. Okay? Anxiety and anger don't manifest into smashing things. Toddlers do. Immature grown men do. It's not a result of what your husband's struggling with. It's a choice he is making in a moment.
Yeah.
Or it's a choice he is making to not deal with in the moments that he's not anxious and enraged. Okay? I do know some, there is some psychological issues where people go, quote unquote, blind with rage. Fine. But then it's their job to deal with it upstream before they're blinded. Right?
Yeah.
And I'm speaking boldly about this because I was a guy that was so buried with anxiety, I couldn't breathe, and my impulse was to smash things. And I didn't, 'cause I'm an adult. Not 'cause I'm better than anybody, but because I'm a grown-up. And I went and sought professional health help.
Yeah. Right.
So you're not gonna like what I'm telling you to do next.
Okay.
I just need you to know that I'm on your team.
Okay.
Um, and I, I know there's a financial reality to this. I know there's a, just a reality reality to this. But if it's safe, he gets a final, powerful, written, written in stone with fire boundary. If you yell in this house again, if you smash something again, if you scream in this house again, I'm leaving with our kids, or you're leaving. Period. If most of the time, people call the show and they, and they water down what's actually going on, they sanitize it a bit. It's hard to say it out loud.
Yeah.
And what I just have a gut feeling that's what you're having to do right now. And I honor that. So I'm not going to push you on it. But if that conversation can't be had for safety reasons, then you go find a safe place to go for you and your two kids and your third one on the way.
Yeah.
And then you communicate that in writing or through an attorney. But when my toddler, when my daughter or my son was a toddler, I can't, you can't explain things to someone who is acting like a six-year-old, 'cause they're six.
Yeah.
Yeah. And someone who's an adult body and goes and grabs a gift and smashes it just to go, "Haha, that's somebody who is being led by their inner child."
Yeah.
All right. So I just said a lot of heavy stuff. What do you feel? Do you think I'm right? Am I crazy?
You push back on me.
No, I, I think you're right. I've, you know, thankfully, you know, I, we're already seeing counselors. I'm, I have seen counselors myself. I've got, you know, mentors and things like that that I've kind of talked through this situation within. Everybody, you know, pretty much agrees with that. Especially so, some think that I should just go ahead and leave. Others think that, like what you said, um, if it's a conversation that I can have in a safe way. And I've pretty much already told him that, you know, I've, I've said, if this happens again, you know, I'm leaving and I'm taking the kids with me until you can prove that you are working on yourself and, um, and seeking the help that you need. Because I, I've tried really long and, and I think that's what's hard is like, we'll have, you know, a good month or a good couple months or a good couple weeks or things like that. And and I, then it just kind of like lulls you into like a false sense of security almost. Of like, and then just being so busy. Like I've got two small kids, I'm full-time, being pregnant, like it's just, um, it's a lot to like to deal with, you know.
100%. A third child that you're having to like parent almost, you know.
Listen, that's exactly what you're doing. You're parenting a third child, except this third child has humongous muscles.
Yeah.
And if a toddler hit you,
He's like, he was a police officer for many years. Like he's seen women who have gone through this. He's seen, but he just, I don't think that he believes, like he fully understands that like hitting me is wrong, or hitting our kids is wrong. But I don't think he, because like this is the way that his family has dealt with conflict. He comes from a very toxic family. And not that that excuses behavior because he could be different, but it's like he just does not see why that's why it's a problem to yell and scream. Why it's a problem to like, as long as he's not hitting me, to like take his aggression out on like an inanimate object. You know? And so sometimes he'll be sorry. And then other times he'll be like, "Oh, well, if you had made me so upset."
Yeah.
That's God piss me off. That's a freaking coward.
Yeah.
Blaming you for his childish behavior because he always, always has a choice. Always. And you do too.
Yeah.
You do too. I think the challenge here is you are telling him, you have to stop doing your thing because what you're doing is wrong. And what he's telling you is, I don't think it is. And I think that's the wrong way to go about it. The more effective way to go about it is this. You being Sarah, say, "I will not live in a house where the man in the home smashes things when he gets in a temper tantrum. Period. If you want to be married to me, you will not smash things in this home. I won't be in a home where somebody yells at me or my children. Period."
Yeah.
And if you want to disagree with me, your lawyer can talk to mine. So what you're doing is, you're not saying, "You need to do these things because these things are wrong," 'cause he's telling you, "I don't think they are." What you're saying is, "I won't be a part of that life."
Yeah.
Most people when they get to where you are and they get right up to this boundary line that they're about to draw really firmly in the ground, have a couple of challenges. One is economic. It doesn't sound like that's where you are. You could get an apartment and y'all could be okay. Is that fair?
Yeah.
I have family in the area. Could live with. By the way, are your family telling you to get the hell out for a long time there?
Yeah. I mean, I haven't told them that he smashes stuff. You know, they know that I'm kind of his verbal punching bag because they've seen it in some cases. You know, they've told me, you know, if you ever need a break, like you don't have to call, just come. Like, we'll be here. You know? So they're very supportive.
That's them doing a pretty lukewarm job of trying to tell you, um, yeah, if you're ready to run, we got you.
Yeah.
Um, without wanting to try to overstep their bounds. If you were my, if you were related to me, I would, I would way overstep my bounds, but I tend to do that all the time.
Um, yeah.
Here's the other thing. Often, if economics are okay, there's a really powerful identity problem. Yeah. Those women can't make it work. Yeah. Those women, quote unquote, break up their family. Single moms are, fill in the blank, fill in the blank, fill in the blank.
Yeah.
Yeah. And I, you know, I have a very strained relationship with his family. His mom for many years has tried to break our marriage up. And she's just a very manipulative person. And so I've been told by her, you know, that we're never going to last. You're never going to like, you're never going to make it. You're going to, you know, she's told my husband, like, you better watch what you say around her because she's going to take everything from you and like take your kids from you because that's what her husband tried to do to her. You know? So I know that there is an element of pride there of like, you know, I don't want to prove this horrible person right. You know, that I essentially.
And I know this is, she doesn't get a vote. She doesn't get a vote. I wouldn't let that woman speak one whisper into my mind or my heart.
Yeah.
Not as far as I mean, I, I mean, she, what that, what that becomes is this, a fear that others are going to judge you as harshly as you're judging yourself right now.
Yeah.
And I'm going to ask you to stop. You deserve to be safe. You deserve to walk into your own home, pregnant with child number three, from a day of, of full-time work, going home to a place where you can drop everything and laugh and be greeted by a former police officer who gets the hell that is women's lives these days and greet you with a hug and a cup of tea and some laughter.
Yeah. Right.
Or a funny dance or a joke, or at least picked up your underwear. Not you walk into your home and your body's preparing for war.
Yeah. Right.
Yeah. You deserve that. That baby that is just bathing in cortisol and adrenaline right now deserves that. Yeah. Everybody in that house, your two babies deserve that.
Yeah.
And I want you to just back, just be honest with yourself and look back and say, has anything I've done or said or threatened, has any of that worked?
No.
Yeah. So at some point, you got to try something new. And if you listen to the show for any length of time, I almost never tell somebody they gotta, they gotta get out. But if your friends are telling you and your family's offering, and I can tell in your voice, you're not telling me everything. It's a lot to tell. It's a lot to. I know. I'm not blaming you. I wouldn't tell some weirdo on a podcast either. But I think you got to get with a friend or two, because also it's going to be very emotional. It's going to be heavy. And I'm not just saying emotional because you're a pregnant woman. I'm saying if I was doing this, I'd get emotional about it.
Okay.
I would have to have a couple of people in my corner to say, "Am I making the right move? What's the, um, what's a safe apartment close to schools? Or what's childcare going to look like? I want to have all those things lined up. Do I have a bank account with my own money in it?" Yeah. Get some people that will think it through with you. And if you think you can have one last conversation that's safe, I'm all about it. I'm all about it.
Yeah.
But if you don't, don't feel compelled to. Or it might be, we can have a conversation after I have locked the gates because you're not listening to my boundaries.
Yeah.
And I, I think it just feels like he's almost like a different person. Like when this stuff happens, you know, it's not, he's generally like a pretty pleasant person when he's in a good mood and things are going well. But it's just like he does not know how to handle life just in general, stress. And that's his job. That's his job. You cannot solve that for him.
Yeah.
That's his adventure.
Well, and it's like, just what you said about, you know, a toddler. He wouldn't let our toddler behave that way.
No. No. No. No.
And by the way, anger is good. Anger points us to something that we care about. Anger is not a bad thing. It's what we do with it. Then he chooses to abuse his wife with it. He chooses to create in little kids a nervous system that will never regulate until they get professional help. That's what he's choosing to do. That's on him. Those are choices he's making. So what you have to do is to stop wading into his choices. You've done that. You've done that for a long time. And you've probably put yourself in some pretty risky, dicey situations.
Cool.
What you have to do is to begin to solve for safety immediately. I'm going to solve for safety. Solve for safety. Solve for safety. And tell them you call me. I'm happy to talk to him, give him some, some, uh, a pass out of the madness that he's in. But I don't think this happens through more talking and more talking and more talking and more talking and more talking. I think safety has, you have to solve for safety now. And I want you to ask yourself this. Has this been slowly and quietly escalating? Because I always look for trend lines in these situations. Does someone just have a bad day and smashed something and they felt like crap about it and they're so sorry and they go to make it right? Or did it start with slamming hands on a table and then break a glass and then smash a thing and then purposely find something you made and break it, and then start screaming and cursing? If you see this thing escalating, the data would tell me you're next. And I don't want you to be next. Reach out to some friends tonight and let's start making a plan. You're worth being safe and you're worth being well.