Transcription
If you're in business, you've probably heard of Dan Martell. He has over 2 million followers on Instagram, 2 million subscribers on YouTube, and he is absolutely crushing it in the personal brand space right now.
Dan has been on our podcast a number of times, and so for today, I wanted to interview the man behind the content machine, and that is Sam Gordet. Sam is the creative director at Martell Media, and he's responsible for everything content and brand. And in this conversation, we dive into hiring a team, what the big mistakes people make when it comes to building their brand, what every single piece of short form content should look like, and Sam is going to share a little bit of his story that he hasn't shared before. Let's dive in.
Sam, my friend, I'm so happy that you're here. Last time you were here, Dan was sitting here and you were sitting behind the camera and now you're here being interviewed. And I want to kind of dive in. I have so many questions and we're going to cover a lot of ground, but I want to dive in firstly to a little bit about your story because you didn't start as Dan Martell's creative director, the like kind of semi famous person that you are now. You didn't start as that.
You're making content now. And we're going to talk about content because that's your jam. But I want to kind of dive back into what was happening for you before you started working with Dan. Because I think for a lot of creatives, they might look at you and go, "Oh my gosh, that's my dream gig. I'd quit my business to to work for a brand like Martell Media." So, what was it that you saw in Dan that made you want to go after this?
Yeah, I'd love to know. And this is also a reason why people should make content because I found Dan for the first time when my dad was watching his YouTube video. So my dad was an entrepreneur growing up. I was around all these books, these seminars and he was watching a Dan Martell video and he said, "Hey Sam, come in my office." He said, "Check this guy out. He's in your city." And I I saw a guy named Dan Martell. At the time he had probably like 9,000 subscribers on YouTube. So like not small but not huge yet, right? And I was like, "Cool." like I want to meet this person. So, um, luckily my dad knew of someone that was working for Dan and made the intro and I kind of like I was 16 at the time, right? I was just a kid. I was still in high school and I met with this person on his team, his videographer at the time and I was like, I I will do anything to work for you, right? And that was kind of the journey that started um going from, you know, a kid in high school that was making snowboard videos to starting to edit Dan's YouTube videos, right? And I think that's, you know, and we can dive into that in this podcast, what uniquely positioned me as the person that Dan wanted in charge of his creative team because I had started, you know, in the trenches and I understood what it was like, but at the same time, I could hold that vision and build those systems for the team to kind of execute against uh a bigger vision.
So at that time you were editing snowboard videos like were you interested in video and you like was that that that was your jam? I was I was in at the time, you know, my dad was an entrepreneur his whole life and he always, you know, would never push me to do anything, but whenever I would show interest, he would kind of open the doors. And I remember I read a book when I was 14 and it was Rich Dad Poor Dad. And I understood that, you know, you can't you don't have to buy assets, you have to buy liabilities, and in order to get ahead in life, you have to figure out how to make um have a high income skill, right? Like that was the whole thing. And I think video kind of came across that slate because I had tried a bunch of things and it was the only thing that I was actually passionate about, right? With snowboarding and and making videos. So that's kind of how I built the skill. And then after that I was like, "Okay, me filming my buddies going to this to the to the ski hill and making an edit putting it on YouTube that gets 15 views isn't going to make me money." And that's when I remember um my first client that I landed on a website called Kijiji in Canada um which is kind of like Craigslist and I just put an ad up and I'm like I'm a videographer uh that I charged that person $100 for a video and I made my first $100 and I remember looking at that $100 bill and I was like this is from that point it was an addiction, right? Like I needed to make videos and grow the the agency at the time that I had.
That's incredible. And so I think what I love about your story is that you you're super entrepreneurial. You you're a you're a builder. You're a leader. You're very creative, but you're also very systemsminded. You could easily be building your own agency. You could easily be building your own thing. But you have chosen to work for Dan and work for Martel Media. I think a lot of creatives have this belief that you can't have freedom unless you work for yourself.
And I would love your thoughts on how you've been able to as an entrepreneurial person been able to grow within someone else's business.
100%. 100%. And I I I want to double click on that. Some people would ask me like why would you go work for someone when you could just do it yourself? And I when I always when I think about that, I always think about leverage, right? Leverage could be code, content, um, or capital. But the highest form of leverage that I believe people have is collaboration, right? And collaboration means that 1 plus 1 doesn't equal two. It actually equals three or four or even 10 in some cases, right? Like me and Dan together is multiplier, right? It's not an addition. And a lot of people sometimes u don't want to give up what they want now for what they want most. And for me, it was 100% that. Like I knew this guy's already successful. He knows the playbook. He's an entrepreneur. He's inspiring me. I could go work for him, get closer to him, learn a lot of, you know, stuff that he's taught me over the last eight years and at the same time make money and at the same time build recognition and at the same time create something that was, you know, something that I wouldn't have been able to create myself, right? Cuz I didn't have the resources or the knowledge yet.
I I'm curious like how you knew in yourself that it was him that it that it's him because so much of the the media is, you know, build your own business, everyone should be an entrepreneur, have your own thing, blah blah blah. Build your own brand, but I think you saw the long game. And I'm curious like what would you say to someone who has that sense that you know what, I actually think I'd enjoy it better if I worked and collaborated with someone and partnered with someone.
Like at the end of the day, work backwards from your 10 year goals, right? And that when I was 16, I knew in 10 years and 50 years like what I wanted to do, right? By 85, I want to be a billionaire. So if I work backwards from that, what do I need to do? Well, I need to hang out with billionaires and figure out what the [ __ ] they do, right? I don't know if I can swear on here. You can. But um so Dan was the closest thing to a billionaire that I knew. So I just knew I had to get close to him to learn from him and his skills and what does he do in a day-to-day basis, right? And I think a lot of people try to pick the right decision, but you just have to make a decision and make it right. Cuz I believe like me and Dan meeting was the start of something great and a collaboration that was amazing. But at the same time, like I think Dan would have found somebody else and did the same thing, right? I was just lucky to be there at the time and get on that vehicle, right? And that's that's the skill is being able to predict, you know, what are what people call blue chip invest in investments, right? The ones that are going to give you the highest returns. And that's a a strategy that I learned from Dan because he's a big investor is like figure out what are the traits that make people undeniably successful, right? Over a long periods of time, are they actually going to be successful? And when I looked at Dan as a person, right, very consistent, um, very successful already, wants more, I was like, I'm going all in with this guy cuz I know he's not going to stop, right? Where where if I would have picked anybody else in the entrepreneurial space, 80% they usually get successful and then settle, right? They don't want more. But Dan has, you know, this innate ability to just keep creating and that's what I wanted to get close to.
So yeah, and I think that's really impressive that even at 16, 17, 18, you had that foresight and that discernment. I don't think many people in their 30s have that.
No, I was an alien in high school. Like people I was obviously like I got along with the other kids, but I was definitely thinking about other stuff. Um, and yeah, that that definitely reflected in some of the decisions that I made when I was young. But what people forget is I was reading entrepreneurship books since I was 11, right? Like my dad, you know, didn't make me read anything, but he had a big library and I would pull books off the shelf and instead of reading, you know, my abs and C's, I would read like, you know, Think, think Think and Grow Rich, The Monk Who Sold Ferrari, um, Investing for Kids, right? And I would read those books and figure out like, oh, this is how the world actually works, right? The [ __ ] [ __ ] that I learn at school is helpful. Math, science, all that fun stuff. But at the end of the day, when I leave my parents' house and I have to pay rent, I have to pay bills, I want to create a business, I have to learn these principles, right? M um and yeah, that's why some people meet me now and they're like, "Oh, you're 24. Like you're doing so well for 24." But they forget that I've been doing this for literally almost 10 years.
Yeah. And that's also like I think a lot of people when they try to like make it big in content are not prepared to to invest 8 years or even a single year into actually making it making it solid. So, okay, you've kind of and what I love about Dan is that and and he talks about this, his vision is big enough for your vision to live in. And what would you say to a business owner who wants to attract talent like you and is like, "Okay, I want to hire an A player. I want I want someone like Sam to want to work for me in anything. It could be in sales, it could be in marketing, could be video, whatever." How do they need to think or how do they need to kind of communicate their vision so that A players want to work with them?
100%. Love that question. I think at the end of the day, people work for a few reasons, right, for a company. And one of them is fortune, right? The other ones are other stuff that isn't necessarily tied to money at all, right? Maybe it's building a skill. Maybe it's building relationships. Maybe it's um, you know, having a growth mindset, being around other people who are winning, right? Having a positive environment. And when I think about recruiting top talent, because that's all I do on a day-to-day basis, like people forget that I'm a creative director. Like, yes, I work on media, but a lot of times I spend my time on interviews, I talk to people, I do one-on- ones, I run meetings, right? Cuz I'm not doing the work now. I'm actually building the system that does the work. And when I think about how can I make the smartest people want to come work for me is I have to be the ultimate example of what their goals and dreams looks like, right? So, I take extreme good health care of my health. I I take a lot of um pride and attention to how I communicate, right, with people. I obviously uh get great results for Dan, right? And all those things those people want. So then when they join my team and I ask them what their five year goals are. I want to run a marathon. I want to own a house. I want to drive a a nice car. I'm like, I understand everybody's inherently selfish. I'm going to make those goals happen. And just like you said, my goals and dreams are bigger so they can fit their dreams and goals inside of. And that's 100% what Dan did for me, right? Cuz he he believed in me and I think that's his ultimate skill and what I'm trying to do for my team is I believe in my team more than they believe in themselves, right? So when I meet somebody that, you know, might not be in the greatest shape or might not be um have the best skills when it comes to video editing, right? But they're hungry and I can feel that, which is the trait that I look for in most most high performers. I nurture that, right? And I say, I know I know you think this is your ceiling, but I I see so much potential in you and I know in a year when we talk and you execute against the stuff that I taught you, you're going to look back and say, "Holy [ __ ] I'm glad that I came on Sam's team because he made me a better person." And that's something that they can take for the rest of their lives. Like not even just within this business, but they can use that skill everywhere, right? In their interpersonal relationships in, you know, when they end up building a business or a team or even like if they want to start making content, right? I'm gonna I'm gonna give you all the tools and you're going to be become a better person on my team. And that is how I try to show up for my team. And I think also the flip side is that people don't want to do that cuz then they might become their competition. They might um leave, right? They might, you know, go work for somebody else. They might um resent you for like want pushing them or like showing them where they're maybe lacking in skills. And I think that's just part for course. If you want to create a high performance team, right? Like I've had some people walk away because they felt that pressure of leveling up and, you know, wanting to level up, but they weren't ready yet. And that's totally fine. And I've had a few people, a handful of people that walked away and came back and they didn't necessarily come work for me again, but they came back and they said, "Sam, I appreciate you wanting more from me because I actually did this thing and I joined the gym or I started working for this company. I built these skills that I wasn't ready yet at the time, but because you believed in me, I then went on that journey of growth."
Yeah. Oh my gosh. Okay. There are so many things I want to like double click on. What I hear when you talk about how you've built your creative team within Martel Media is you talk about it as your team. You talk about it as they're working for you. And this there's this high ownership in the in your language and the way you speak. And this is what makes me feel like you've uh it's kind of this idea of being an entrepreneur where you've built your business within Dan's business. And I think there's a lot to that and I'm sure there's a lot that you've had to learn on the job.
First thing I want to know is how did you go from being the 16-year-old who is taking videos and like editing videos and then figuring out, okay, how do I do a YouTube thumbnail? Okay, what's a good hook for a thing? Like how do I all of those all of those like micro skills that you had to learn? How did you go from that person to now being the person who is leading the team and not just any team but a very high performance media and content team? Like what how what does that journey looked like?
And I want to let everybody know that's listening to the podcast, I was actually a very mediocre video editor. Like I'm not great at all. And I think that's what kind of snuck up on me, which is like, hey, this is my ceiling. like I could go get better at making videos or I could go find people that are better than me, right? And that was 100% what I wanted to do with my time is figure out how can I create right collaboration leverage in the business so that I don't have to be the bottleneck, right?
And I think like if I think about when I went from there was a few leaps right that I had to make along my journey because I started for people listening I started as a video editor with my headphones on eight hours a day not talking to anyone very introverted couldn't look somebody in the eyes um some people would say that you know I was probably the quietest kid on the team right which is completely different today I'm still a little bit quiet um but at the time I was like the guy that just did his work and you know didn't think of anything ex except for that and I had a few leaps. The first one was when I hired my first editor to kind of offload some of the the work that I I was doing, right? Cuz I was working 8 hour days making videos, not getting ahead, not getting results.
Cuz I couldn't focus on the bigger picture. And it's when Dan told me, "Hey Sam, I know you're editing 6 8 n hours a day. We're not going to make better videos if you can't think about what makes better videos." And it's not only the editing, right? So that was my first leap is hiring my first employee, right? And there there was a lot of lessons and learning with that first employee. I did it wrong 1,700 times before I got it right. I had to go through few through a few people actually before I found the right one. And that probably the biggest learning there was to let go a little bit, but then also have the standards and and and checklists in place so that they know what great looks like. So I think I was actually talking to another entrepreneur before we came here and he was telling me that his team didn't know how to edit great videos. Right. And I whose fault is that, right? And he said, "Well, I don't know. It's probably their fault. They're video editors, right?" I'm like, "No, it's your fault." Because you haven't taught them what a great video looks like I can't live in your head, right? And and especially for all the creatives listening, making videos is subjective, right? Yes. And what some what I think look great looks like and what you think great looks like is two completely different things. Mhm. So my biggest learning having that one video editor was how can I take what's inside my head and distill it down to principles that I can put in a checklist that creatives can creators can go look at and say I've got high contrast on my images, right? And they can run it through a contrast checker or whatever on on their text. Um the the point of the video is very clear, right? There's clear context on what this video is about. the hook opens a loop that the viewer wants to close, right? And then some like there's no typos, right? There's no um errors in the the export, all this stuff, right? That people forget that, you know, even the most professional people in the world still needed checklist, right? Yeah. So, that was the first leap. Then it was hiring more people, right? Graphic designers, copywriters. um and actually got put in a position where I was a video editor, but because I was excelling in my role and I was building, you know, my my team of video editors on the bottom, um somebody on the team um got transitioned off and there was an opening for a content uh director role, like more of a content manager role. Yeah. And they put a job post out and I applied for it in my own company, right, which is funny, but I let everybody know I'm like, "Hey, I'm going for the job." And I got the job against everybody else that they interviewed, right? Because obviously I had a lot of context on what the business was and I also did my homework, right? I came to that interview prepared wanting to build the skills of how to actually lead a creative team, right? So then overnight, literally overnight, I went from one direct report to five direct reports and I had to go from having one-on-one to five one-on- ones and, you know, running the media sync, right? Like a weekly meeting that we do that we review numbers and scorecards and all that stuff. And that was the biggest learning there was I don't have to be the smartest person in the room to get the results that we need. Yeah. And I don't have to be the smartest person in the room to be able to lead this team. And cuz there was a lot of smarter people in those five people that voice their opinions and I was obviously younger than all of them, but I knew at the time that I had to build the skill of being able to be okay with that, right? that I don't need to be um on a pedestal and be the person that has all the answers for these people to listen to me, right? Because great leaders at the end of the day are people that can put that put their ego aside and just work for what's better for the company, right? Yeah. And trust that the talent on their team, if they're smarter than them, can make better calls and create a system in place that they can make calls through, right? Because that's all I did was build a system. so that people could make decisions without me involved. Um, and I would check those decisions obviously, but at the end of the day, like if people can run, let them run. And that was 100% how I led that five person media team. And then the next level was creative director, which is what I'm doing today.
And what how many direct reports do you have now?
So I have two direct reports now. Great. So I actually work through people, which is the ultimate meta skill that I had to build, which is, you know, there's the first skill of like having a video editor that reports to you, building a checklist and rhythms. Then there's five direct reports. So you have to like create some sort of vision or um or actually like company culture where people do stuff and you don't have to be the smartest person in the room. And then the third level is working through people to get outcomes, right? So I am not having one-on- ones with the video editors, right? I'm sometimes two or three p people removed. So what that looks like is creating a very clear message that can trickle down the org chart. Yeah. Right. Because just like playing telephone in high school when you go around by the end the message completely changes right so what I try to do I call this creating creating artifacts right so when I'm when I'm creating strategy for within our company all I'm trying to do is create artifacts right so if you look at all the frameworks that I share on my social media they're all stuff that I I taught my team in the media training so that they can take those frameworks and teach them to their team right kind of like creating a nice little briefcase where I pull all the tools inside, I close it and I hand it to my leadership team. Yeah. So, anytime that I'm making a change, I'm uh communicating an outcome, I'm setting goals, I'm always sharing a very clear, you know, pocket story, pocket analogy, pocket um framework, right, that they can take and put in the briefcase and then close it and then repeat it to their team. Yeah. Um and that, by the way, is 100% what every great leader in the world does. And you can see that at the Apple launch. You can see that at um any Elon when he shares his stories of how he's going to build um a civilization on Mars. Every single project has a purpose and is very clearly articulated and he's able to communicate that to his team so that they can communicate it to their team and it trickles down the organization so we don't end up with a completely different message like in that game of telephone.
One thing that I want to kind of look at is how did you go like that leap? And I think so many creatives struggle with this leap from I'm the doer. I I wear all the hats. I am the most and I don't mean this in an ego way. I just it means I have the most amount of information on the client or the project or the deliverable. I may be the most talented cuz I can't afford someone better than me. So I may be the most talented at this particular thing. Yeah. How do we as we hire not then pick up their work and change things and micromanage?
That's that's probably the hardest thing for me. How did you kind of work through that?
Oh man, I I was the worst and I still am in some areas, right? I'm not perfect. I'm not an angel. Um but you'll see it. And I've messed this up a thousand times where I would, you know, give something to someone and then a week later they send it over and the deadline is tomorrow and it would take more time for me to give feedback than to just do it myself. And I do it myself and I send it to the client. The problem with that is every time you do that, it one communicates to your team that it's okay to do [ __ ] work because you're just going to do it for them. And then two is it actually degrades their self-esteem, right? Where they don't think that they can do great work, right? Because they think, you know, oh, Sam's just going to do it because he could do it better. I'm not a good designer. I'm not a good video editor, etc., etc. So, how I've how I'm trying to do that now and, you know, I'm kind of forced to do that now cuz I can't edit a video anymore. Like, I've don't have the ability or the software or whatever, right? Cuz I've deleted that on off my phone, which by the way, that's a good hack. That is the ultimate hack. If you don't want to micromanage your team or do work for them, just delete the apps off your delete Photoshop, delete Premiere Pro, delete all the apps so that you can't get in the weeds um and work through them. And the second thing is having u very clear deadlines of when things happen, right? Cuz if it, let's say you have a project that is due in 2 weeks, right? My mistake was to put the deadline the day before, right? Yeah. The problem with that is if it if there's fundamentally everything to be changed with that project, we're not going to get it out in time. So what we do now is we have very clear deadlines of when things need to be delivered, delivery deadlines which are usually anywhere between seven and 14 days before the thing goes live, right? So we all always have things in our back pockets and you know sometimes you have to go slow to go fast and sometimes it's going to require um a little bit of like what they call crunch time of like making more for a period of of time so you can get ahead. But then at the end of the day, every single time that you give feedback to that person and they execute on it, they build the skill of becoming better. And that's how you build your talent, right? And that's how I've been able to take, you know, maybe not the most skilled editors, but 100% the smartest like intellectually that I know and also the the most hungry and build them into very very very skilled editors because we're able to to distill those um pieces of feedback into things that they they can execute. The second hack to that is anytime I'm giving a piece of feedback on on work, I always tie it back to a principle that we've identified. And if it can't be tied back to a principle, that means the principles need to change or they need to be updated. Yeah. So, and there's principles for every piece of output that we have. So for a short form video right we have I think it's seven principles and one of them is uh uh pay attention to the details absolutely no typos um I think one is understand the context right? Like of like what's being said or whatever cuz sometimes like the context can be thrown out or like they makes a call that doesn't make sense so they can be a little bit wide right? Those principles but I want to train my team on principles so that whenever they're making decisions they have a series of you know seven or eight you commandments that they can run by so that if they if they're deciding between A or B, they know B is the right call because it's more aligned with the seven principles, right? Yeah. So, you'll see if there's nerds watching this, I'm sure you use this software, too, or use Frame.io. Yeah. If you go in our Frame.io, when we're reviewing a video, every single piece of feedback has a principle tied back to it. So, it's P1, P2, P3, and then the piece of feedback, right? So, we're like P3, um, which could be like pay attention to the details. um uh or dial in the details I think is is what it is. It could be like uh put the shadow uh up on the text to create more contrast or whatever it is, right? Cool. That way we're teaching the team for the next time that they 100% can do that. And I think anyone listening or watching, if you are a photographer and you have people editing for you, if you're a designer and you've got people coming in and doing developing for you, those that framework of having principles of this is how we do things around here. That is so powerful. And I love that idea of okay, if they don't know what the principle is, that's a communication problem on your end. It's not it's that's not a them problem. And so I love that feedback tying back to the principle. That's super super smart.
So the role that you spoke about the content manager, I know that's the next role I need to hire. Yeah. What like what do you think this content manager role fills? Like which gap is it? Because at the moment it feels like I am reviewing all the things myself. I'm like looking at the content. I'm I'm kind of a bit weedsy. And so what does this content manager role actually do and and why do you think it's so important especially for personal brands and and creators who want to to become a bit more prolific in their content?
Love that question and I think that's the ultimate question is how how can I build someone the role of that person is to sit between you and the creative team, right? Because at the end of the day like I am the one shield that protects the creative team from the CEO's crazy, right? Quote unquote crazy, right? Cuz they're visionaries. They're and that's what gets results, right? Cuz there's a role of the CEO is to have a really clear clear vision of where they want to be and have extreme extreme tenacity on how to get there, right? But sometimes, you know, that energy can be disruptive if it's not harnessed, right? So, the role of that content manager is 100% to take Laura's genius, right, and distill it down to a few principles that they can lead the team with, right? So, their role should always be to lead the creative team, right? Be be um a manager first, right? Be able to build people and have one-on- ones and all that. Like, they take all of that off your plate. But then the second thing is have a really clear strategy on how to get from A to B, right? Cuz at the end of the day, a content manager doesn't just manage content. They build a strategy that they can go from A to B. And if the if they don't get to B, then you can question the strategy and help them build a better one. Right. Yeah. And that is the ultimate skill is to be able to let go to where that one person can 100% review all the creative y have one ones with the team and um and also have a really clear strategy on how to get from A to B. Yeah. Right. And those three things will help you pull back and you can focus on the bigger vision stuff which is building the infrastructure around the media. Right. Which is what Dan focuses on now with Martell Ventures. Yeah. That being said, letting go can be hard because sometimes that person could, you know, mess up, right? I've had a few times where we've posted posted something in the last 3 years where Dan actually just went and archived it, sent me a text like, "Hey, you know, whatever. I didn't want to put that out there." Um, there's is a private story that he told at a dinner that I didn't have context on or whatever. And then I always look at those mistakes as a learning lesson and I always try to build a principle so it doesn't happen again. Right. So it be could be um whenever it's a story about a friend, we always check with Dan if it's okay to share, right? Whenever it's a story about um uh maybe his family, we always check with Dan if we if we can share, right? And then we create again artifacts, right, of those stories and if we can tell them or not. So we have a yes and a no list in our notion doc to where these stories we can tell about Dan, these stories we don't. Yeah. Right. And everybody on the team in the onboarding, they see those things. So that from day one they understand like we don't talk about this, we don't talk about this, we don't talk about this, we don't talk about this, we don't talk about this, we amplify this, we amplify this, we amplify this, we amplify this, we amplify this, right? So they understand which stories they have in their back pockets. Yeah. Another thing is uh what Dan calls um kind of creating like the the the DAN OS or the the preference dock, right? Which is basically putting your whole life out on paper. And it can it can sound crazy, but I guarantee everybody watching this right, Chad BT knows more about you than you know about yourself. So if you want to create this quick for yourself, say, "Hey, extract everything you know about me. Put it on a preference dock and print it out for me." Right? So we have a preference dock of like Dan only likes to use long forks, right? Dan only his Achilles heel is eating peanut butter and chocolate, right? Um stuff actual things. Yeah. Yeah. He always wears a blue shirt, right? Until we launch a new book. Wink wink. He's funny and he's tall and that's what people most people don't realize, right? That he's actually a big jokester and that he's really tall cuz on the videos it makes them look smaller, right? So, we literally write out all the stuff so that whenever people come on the team they understand exactly who Dan is, right? So, I would create that for you. So, then when people come on the team, they understand who Laura is, what kind of decisions they make because at the end of the day, if people can have that context in their back of their head anytime they're making new decisions, cuz it's only going to be new decisions moving forward, right? It won't be the same old problems that we had yesterday, they can have better tools to execute and have a better say in that decision. I'd say 90% of the time, if they have all the context on who you are and what you believe, they will make better decisions moving forward. and actually be surprised on how your team your team can execute without you and be involved.
That's so that's super super smart. Okay, I really like this. Um before we switch gears and move into like content specific stuff, is there anything around the team that you wish people knew in terms of when they start to hire or is there a mistake people make that you just see it all the time?
Yeah, I think people hire for skill more than they hire for hunger a lot of the times. I think people hire for people hire more for technical skill than the drive and hunger that they're really looking for. And I think that is the biggest mistake I see most creative teams make is pull people in that are the most technically adapt but at the same time have a really bad work ethic or are a little bit comfortable in their life and they don't actually want to grow. And that is the biggest cancer that can happen in any creative organization is having somebody that puts a ceiling on themselves and then that also puts a ceiling on everybody else. So I've I've had that happen a few times where I bring bring somebody in and I made this mistake a thousand times. That's why I can speak to it where this person was 100% skilled enough to be on the team. Probably one of the best technical people I've brought on the team, but because of the energy that they brought to the team actually reduced productivity, reduced our creative output, reduced our quality, right? Because they didn't hold themselves up to a higher standard, they just did great work. But because they did great work, they were a little bit high on their own supply and didn't actually want more, right? So, I cut those people off most of the time within two weeks because I can see what that does to to the whole team. And what that communicates to the team, it's like, hey, and I tell this in in uh I say this in interviews, um especially on the last one when I hire someone, 99% of the time, I say, hey, you weren't the most skilled in the talent pool. You weren't the most uh you you didn't have the best test project, right? You didn't have the the best work, but I see that you're hungry. I see that you want more. and I see that you learn fast and I want you to be on this team because that's 100% the the core values that my creative team has and I know that your ceiling is going to be a lot higher than the most skilled person in this talent pool. And what that does is it puts the pressure on that person to show me if they're really good or not, right? If they're going to step up to the plate. And I'd say 80% of the time that person 100% steps up. And those are the best people on my team are the people that weren't necessarily the most skilled, but they had an extreme hunger and desire for more and a growth mindset where I just gave them problems and they solved them really fast. And every time they would solve a problem, they would learn fast. And that becomes your creative weapon as you scale.
Oh, this is that's so so good. And for anyone hiring, again, it's not just in content, it's in any area in your business. I think that's such a good principle to hold to, especially as creatives where we can get really hung up on, oh, is creativity subjective? Oh, it's just my vibe and it's my like, how are they going to make it look as good as I do? And it's actually like, no, that's not the most important thing that we're looking for in a hire anyway.
100% 100%. And I'll double click on that. Something I wanted to say earlier cuz I was this person. I almost hid behind my intellect and, you know, didn't actually build principles of what I believe because I didn't actually know what I believed yet. So, a lot of creative people um can't train a creative team because they haven't put down on paper what they believe about great output, right? So, they don't actually know what that looks like. They know what good looks like, but they can't describe it, right? So my biggest Achilles heel, the thing I had to build was my ability to describe greatness, right? High contrast images, big faces, big text, um uh great storytelling, right? What what does great story storytelling look like? Well, well, it has context tension and some other element of the open loop, right? Where you want to learn some uh you want to teach something to someone, right? And all those things I had to put down on paper so that people could understand what was what was it like inside my head and I had to learn what was inside my head because a lot of people hide from that and they just say like I know this is good this is not right and they don't actually explain why is it good why is it not and that is the ultimate skill you have to build as a creative leader.
That's so good and I think that like really speaks to uh I don't know what it's called but it's like um when you start out you have unconscious incompetence and then you kind of move up the ladder and you're like oh I'm consciously ly incompetent and then you're like, "Oh, no. I'm I'm like a little bit competent now." And I think a lot of creatives get stuck at uh unconscious competence. And so what you're describing is like, "Okay, cool. I can tell you, if I see what's good, I can tell you, okay, that's good. That's ready to post. Let's send it. That's going to do really well." But if I can't describe, well, how did I know that? And what were the decisions and the things, what were the markers that I was looking at? If I can't actually describe that in very practical detail, no one's gonna be able to emulate what I envision in my head.
Yeah. Yeah. 100%. It's such a like moving out of It's a It's an exercise. It is an exercise and it is work because I It took me probably four or five years to get to that point where I could actually describe what grad looks like because I had to understand what it actually looks like and be able to put labels on it. And that comes with experience and data and getting it wrong, getting it right, or like something going viral and then you really examine it and go, "Oh, okay. What what did we get right in this and how can we do that do more of that?"
Which kind of leads me into the final big thing I want to talk about with you is you kind of have
A framework for everything.
Yeah. And so every time I hang out with you, I'm like, "Oh my gosh, can you send me that?" Like, what is that? Send it to me. So you have a framework for all the things I want to talk about content because at the moment, you are doing an experiment on your social media.
100%. Tell me about that. What, what are you experimenting with and and what's it looking like right now?
So the number one question I get from clients of Dan or, you know, of of anyone, right? Number one question I get in my DMs is, "What gear should I get to create, start creating videos?" Right? And my immediate thought is, you don't need gear. You have an iPhone. So I, I'm on a mission, and I'm nine days in, to get to 100,000 followers with my iPhone, right? To show everybody that follow me, that don't follow me, that it is 100% possible to make content without the gear, right? The gears, you know, if you get a studio, your GoPro, all that fun stuff, that is a great framework, but at the end of the day, you know, not having a camera shouldn't stop you from creating content, right? And I got a video yesterday that got 50,000 views with my iPhone, right? And I think that is what's holding most people back is the belief that, you know, they need a a Sam or a a creative team or even, you know, some sort of camera to start creating content. But that is that is not the case. You just have to understand what great content looks like.
And, you know, we can dive into what that looks like in some of the frameworks that I use.
Okay. This is this is really awesome. I love that you're doing this. So talk to me, what, when you examine what great content looks like, what are the core principles or core pieces that are in place?
Probably 90% of the content online follows this very clear framework: hook, which is hook people in, right? And there's a few things that make a great hook. Number one is context. What is, what is happening in the video? Right? A lot of times people start videos and it, there's no context on what is happening in the video, and they actually shoot themselves in the foot before the war's even started because they make a video, they either pick a take a clip from a podcast or start a video without actually having people understand that most people that watch this video are actually going to be new audience, and they have to understand what's going on. Right?
So number one, uh, is hook, and you have to have really clear, there's three C's to having a good hook. Number one, you have to have really clear, um, context on what's happening. Number two is you have to have a contrarian take, right? In a world where everybody sounds like everyone, you have to have a contrarian take. You have to be able to communicate to other people that you have something that's different, right? What I call a unique mechanism that is something that gets you results, right, fast, right? And then the third, the last one is you have to create intrigue, right? The whole point of a hook is to open a loop so that people want to close it by the end.
Yeah. So those are three psychological principles that are evergreen, right? That are fundamental to making great content. The second part is explain. And explaining is literally just saying the thing again, right? Could be, this is the 131 rule, right?
The 131 rule is a rule that I use to lead my creative team, right? Just explain what, what, what it's about, right?
The, the explanation could be simple, could be fast, it could be, um, a little bit longer, just depending on how, how bad you want people to understand. Um, then it was illustrate, right? And I saw you do this in all three of your viral videos is you used an analogy, you used a simile or apherism, a story, um, anything to kind of illustrate a point in your video so that people can connect it to something else, right? And what that does is it actually creates familiarity between the unknown concept that you're teaching and what people actually understand. The last one is he has a lesson, right? So the lesson is, how do I actually apply this in my day-to-day life, right? So the next time somebody comes to you with a problem, say, "What's the one problem you're trying to solve?" Because a lot of people try to, you know, solve multiple problems with one solution. What are your three options that you want to present to me? And then what's your one recommendation of what you actually want to do? And that, that would tie up the video. So that's an example of creating viral short-form content. And once you see this, you'll see that 99% of educational content follows this one framework.
Yeah. So again, if we're thinking about short-form, you mentioned like everyone sounds the same. No, there's, it's never been easier to produce content. And also, what you're illustrating with your iPhone is, any, anyone can create content. That doesn't mean everyone does. It doesn't mean everyone creates good content, but anyone can create content.
So how do you think, if, if someone listening is like, "I really want my brand to cut through. I really want to have the kind of audience magnetism that a Dan has." What are you like, what are the things that you are kind of doubling down on and capitalizing on in short-form?
I love that question, and I think that's your contrarian take, right? What I call unique mechanisms or unique perspectives. And I have a list of Dan's unique perspectives that I've extracted from his brain. So if you want to do this for yourself, you're watching this, I would sit down and say, "What do I believe about the world? That is a fundamental truth that most people wouldn't believe is true." Right? That is the question that I ask Dan all the time. And he would say, uh, "Making more money doesn't mean that you have to work more." Right? "You don't have to build a business you don't grow to hate." Right? Um, a great example of that, one of our most viral videos that that got posted in the history of our videos was, "I don't give a [ __ ] about my kids' school grades." Right? That is a unique perspective, unique to Dan, that he believes is a fundamental truth because he have he has beliefs about the world that, you know, school isn't everything. It's about the skills you teach your your kids. Um, but that take would be dismissed by 99% of people online. Right? So he comes in and he says, um, you know, "I don't care about my kids' school grades." Um, "You don't have to work longer hours. You just have to buy back your time to have a successful business." And I would sit down, if I was a creator, and and ask myself, "What are the things that I believe fundamentally about anything, your niche, that is true that people can argue with, but that 99% of people will think that is wrong?" An example of that for me is, I don't believe great videos are made in the hook or the explanation or the story or the lesson or, um, the packaging or the visual shot, the gear that you use. I believe fundamentally to its core, a great piece of content has one thing: which is a great topic, right? And that is, if you look on my Instagram, that is the number one pinned post on my Instagram with over 40,000 views, which where I have a pyramid and I show like, this is important, yes, this is important, yes, but the most important thing is picking a good topic because at the end of the day, if I make a video about getting abs, or if I make a video about, um, how to start a B2B SAS, the one about getting abs is going to get more views, right? Because it has a broader tan.
And, and I would figure out, um, Patty Galloway calls this CCN fit. I would figure out for your niche, what are the topics that have the highest CCN fit? Core, casual, and new audience fit. That means that your core audience resonates with it, your casual audience resonates with it, and your new audience resonates with it.
There's a few topics for us that hit all three.
And what that does is it one builds your brand, but then gets you to tap into new audiences. An example of that is we had a viral video that got 2.3 million views. It was, "Meetings are the biggest time waster in any company," right? And that video hits on our core audience because they're leaders, they're business owners, and they, you know, have a lot of meetings and maybe they're having too many meetings, right? It hits on our casual audience 'cause maybe we have employees that watch our content that, you know, hate their the meetings that they're in all day, and, you know, we we create what I call a common enemy to kind of like throw rocks at. Like, meetings are the problem, or like, my company's the problem. And then it hits our new audience because obviously, like, everybody understands the context of a meeting and what it is, and they understand what it could look like to have too many meetings, right? So creating your unique perspective around how you see the world is 100% how you're going to stand out. And it helps a lot if you have stories around it. If you replay this, you'll see that I just did it in real time.
Yeah, that's so good. I also think everything that you've shared, you have conviction about. Like, you actually believe what you're saying. And so I see people that maybe see a trend. Oh, Hoszi said this, so I'm going to say it in a slightly different way because that hit all of all of those kind of markers.
But it's like, but if you don't believe what you're saying, if you don't have like conviction and energy behind what you're saying, then it's also kind of falls flat.
Going to fall flat. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
100%. And that, that is everybody watching this, everybody's unique. Everybody has their own story. And that is 100% your advantage in the content world is being able to sprinkle all your own stories, your case studies, the results you got on every single piece of content. Like, you'll notice every single story I told on this podcast was 100% aligned to like all the work that I've done with Dan, right? I'm not, I could do some reporter stories like, "Hey, you know, I've, I've uh, I saw this guy do this thing." But the more as a content creator, you can use case studies of your clients, of your team members, and talk about that, then you'll create what I call an authentic brand, right? Where people actually gravitate towards you because they understand that, oh, this person actually understands their [ __ ] and isn't just, you know, a charlatan, you know, trying to, you know, sell people snake oil.
Totally.
Okay, I've got two final rapid-fire questions. What would you say to someone who's listening to this and is still like, "I just not sure if content is for me. Like, I don't like being in front of the camera or it feels like too much effort." What would you say to that person who who feels that?
I'll just say this. In the world of AI, when every product can be spun up in seconds, your ultimate advantage is going to be distribution in the future, right? Because you can't hide behind your work anymore. You have to be a person that attracts, you know, demand and distribution. Cuz when I can make HubSpot, I can make Slack, I can make Spotify apps in seconds just with a prompt. Your ultimate skill will be your ability to market those products, right? Because everything is going to be done, which means that distribution is something that you have to build in the next five years, in the next 10 years. You have to build.
Um, and if you're scared of making content, I was, just ask yourself, "Am I going to make content in five years? Am I going to make content in 10 years?" And most of the people I ask that question to, they say yes. Right? And then I I always follow up with, "Why don't you start now?" Right?
And I'll give you a hack that I don't know if a lot of people would agree with, but you don't necessarily have to post your content yet. When I first started h getting the idea of creating content, I got asked by a mentor that exact question, "Are you going to create content in five years?" I said yes. He said he said, "Why don't you start now?" And he followed up with, "You don't even have to post it." So if you go look from 2022 to 202 uh 4, I have two years where every single day I would pull out my iPhone and teach something, right? And that's pure reps. That is over 600 days, 600 videos of me talking to my vid to my phone and practicing. And trust me, those first ones were freaking horrible. But I'm practicing the skill of being able to distill a framework, a lesson, a story into 60 seconds. And that is why today I'm able to get on meetings, you know, talk speak in front of hundreds of people, get on a podcast and not be nervous because I built the skill through the reps, right? So, if I'm if somebody's watching this and they think that they're going to eventually, you know, speak on stage, um, lead a big team, or even just create some content, they should 100% start today. And you don't have to post it yet. Just practice.
Oh, I really like that. Final one. We talk a lot about going pro with your content. What's the first step if someone's like, "Okay, cool. Yeah, I want to go pro. I want to go all in. I'm sick of being like amateur hour." What, what does that mean to you?
I think going pro is all about two things. One is dedicating your calendar, right? Your time to it. And which means that there's calendar blocks for creating content. And number two is dedicating your dollars, your bank account to it, right? And when I decided to make content in the 90 days, I decided to do it with my iPhone. But at the same time, I spent money on a mentor that taught me all about, you know, some extra things that I had to learn about communicating, right? And I also uh put a calendar block inside my calendar every single day to create content, right? So, if somebody's asking themselves, "I want to go pro tomorrow." I would 100% say go buy a course or hire a coach or spend some money to make it hurt a little bit, right? That if you don't do it, it's going to be a waste of money. And go put some some time blocks in your calendar to actually create content. Cuz if you do those two things and you execute for 300 days, right, even 90 days, right? I'm going to do it for 90 days. Um, you will wake up completely a different person, right? I've been doing this nine days and I've gained over 1,800 followers in nine days, right?
Just because I did the work, and that's one video a week with my freaking iPhone, right? Basic editing.
And I think everybody watching this has the same opportunity.
Oh, Sam, this has been amazing. Where can people connect with you and where can people see this challenge that you're doing on Instagram?
Instagram, uh, Sam.gadet. Um, I if you want my uh topic generation GPT, so I built a custom GPT where it follows, you know, my CCN fit framework. It follows my hail framework for how to actually deliver content. Um, so you just put your niche in. You're like, "Hey, you know, I'm a agency or I'm a business, my niche is business or fitness." Um, and it'll spit out 25, you know, validated topics that actually have demand. Um, just message me topic Laura on Instagram and I'll send it over.
Amazing. Thank you so much. I'm so, there is so much gold in this and I know that everyone listening has gotten so much out of it. So
I appreciate it, Laura. You're a great interviewer. This is [ __ ] awesome. I appreciate it.