Transcription
Well, hi everybody and welcome to the Grow Leader podcast where we grow leaders that grow churches by helping them reach their full potential.
[music]
So glad to have you along with us today for a first-time kind of episode. My name is Matt. If you're new to us, [music] so glad to have you here across the table today [laughter] from the chancellor of Highlands College, Pastor Chris Hajes.
>> How's it going? This is different today. So you're you're seeing two people. If you're watching this, if you're listening, I'll describe these people. One, >> this may or may not get aired. [laughter] >> We will see. We're going to make it happen. I'm sitting with uh Will, why don't you guys introduce yourselves and tell tell what you do on the team?
>> Yeah, that'd be great. Uh my name is Adam. Um I've served on the team at Highlands for 13 years now and have the opportunity to work really closely with PC for most of that time. So >> yeah, it's awesome. Yeah, he's the look and feel, by the way, whenever people see me on stage and the the presentations that I give, what's on the little TV monitor that I show with the scriptures or the points uh when I travel to put the lower thirds to bring whatever supporting videos. And so, my comfort level with Adam is so high that I can't stand if anybody else is doing that job because he can read my mind before you ought to see us before this Sunday service when we're going over my notes and they're always just perfect. I like, "Do you have any questions?" He goes, "No." I mean, [laughter] and he takes it all straight just from my preaching notes and knows exactly what I want. I don't have to have to highlight which ones I want on there. He knows that automatically.
>> The best in the world.
>> Amazing time.
>> You are the best in the world. You really are. Um, my name is Grace. I serve
>> What's your last name?
>> Grace Hodgeges. [laughter] My incredible father-in-law is Pastor Chris. I love being on team, but at the Girl Leader Podcast, I would say my role would best be described as like the pre-production producer. So, I get to any content that comes on the plate and that you get is what I do.
>> This is really the podcast team. So, one more member of our team, G, who's behind the camera today, doing an incredible job. Uh, we love G. But we we had this idea. I think Grace had this idea. [laughter] It was your idea.
>> I told I told Mr. Chris, I said, "What if we do a rapid fire interview?" And he said, "What if you guys interview us?" And I was like, "Okay, >> that's what we're going to do."
>> So, we get a lot of questions. People ask a lot of questions. And these guys know that some of the best environments for leaders that we've ever created is the Q&A environment. So we do that almost all of our conferences. Y I do it with the students almost every time I preach at the at at the chapel services. I'll leave enough time for Q&A and then we do of course do the roundts which by the way if you're watching today and you want to come to one of our roundts might be the best learning environment we do at Grow Leader is where we take you know 25 30 pastors for two days uh in in a room and just really and the whole thing's Q&A but I I I call it my favorite learning environment because you always know that the material is relevant because it's what you're going through right now. So that was the idea. She said, "Oh, let's do the rapid fire." It's like, "Well, why don't you guys just ask the questions?" And I'm completely unprepared, by the way. I didn't study questions. I told them they can go off script. Excuse me. It sounds like I've been smoking all day. [laughter] I promise you.
>> Have you picked up a new habit?
>> No, I have not. Excuse me. I just got back from lunch. I think half of it was still stuck in my throat. But [laughter] anyway, um, but just to just to yeah, to be in the the Q&A environment of actually what pastors and leaders really want to know. I think sometimes when we present material, people are thinking going, "Yeah, but what about this?" You know, so I hope this is that what about this and so let's see how it turns out.
>> So Adam and Grace are going to ask the questions and I'll jump in and and I think what's going to happen is Pastor Chris is going to have some questions for y'all as well. So just just be ready for that um later on. But you really have not we we've not staged this at all. Here we go. So um who's going first? Grace, you want to go first?
>> I'll start. You know, I feel like one thing that this table has that is unique to PC is we all have a personal relationship with you and a professional relationship. And so I think we should start on the personal side. And one of the best parts about you is you are an incredible dreamer. And I know you also have an amazing bucket list. So I want to know what is something this year that you are hoping to knock off your bucket list?
Well, I can't help but teach that principle first before I answer that question because if you don't have a written bucket list um where you been and what are you doing? I mean, you have to actually John Maxwell taught me this in 2007 um when we [snorts] were at his birthday party and he said, "Man, we just all need to have a bucket list. I want you guys to come to breakfast the next morning with at least five things that you want to do before you kick the bucket." And there's one thing about thinking of thinking them and knowing what they are. It's another thing putting them on paper. Uh I I started with five that day. Today I have over a hundred. I think it's 103 items. And that's including the ones that have been done because I keep those on there, too. They're all marked in highlighted yellow to let me know they've been completed. I review this bucket list um once a month. And this is what I actually taught this. I was actually at a lunch today with with a bunch of business leaders uh who wanted to hear about the college and they wanted to do a Q&A environment and and they were asking about a personal growth question. Now, check this out. And I said, "The reason why a lot of people don't grow is that they're not planning for their growth." And it's very easy, especially when you get later on in your years, to settle like, "This is who I am." Yeah. I mean, it can get a little better, a little bit better, but probably not a whole lot better. But what a bucket list does is it pushes you towards something that you probably would have passed up had you not had it written down. I'll give you an example on a playful level. One of mine is to go to every major league baseball park in and I think there's 32 of them, right? And so now what it forces me is that if I'm traveling, I'm anywhere near that area. Had it not been for the bucket list, I'm automatically thinking because I review it like, wait a minute, we're pretty close to so and so park and I've never been there before. I wonder if they're playing. And what it does is it's it's adding something to your life that you would have missed had you not had it written down. Does that make sense? Yeah. So that's I'm a huge fan in um not only having one in your mind but also having it written it down and then reviewing it.
Okay. So with that in mind, actually it's interesting. I think it was three days ago I actually reviewed my bucket list this month. You know, I just read read through it.
>> And one of them is to sell a million copies of books.
>> Wow.
>> Wow. And I think the book that's coming out in April, if it if it does what I think it's going to do, >> I think that's going to be the first time that I will have over a million >> copies of a book sold. One of mine, by the way, was to write five books that people actually read. [laughter]
>> And I wrote it that way. Like, it's one thing to write a book, it's another one another thing to write a book people read. It's awesome. And and this, you know, I've written more than that now. Um, and my English teacher is the most amazed person by that. But um but uh yeah, that's that's that's something I'm actually looking forward to from a professional standpoint. I always have the the the the playful ones and
>> Yeah. What's your what's a personal one? What's a personal one?
>> Uh you know, so I have some dreams with grandkids. Like I want to take all my grandkids on on a mission trip and then I want to take them all, you know, to on on a vacation with just honey and papa. And they're just now getting to the age where some of that can happen now. And so that's probably where I find myself dreaming the most.
Well, you you've always even taught this. I mean, for years, the personal dreams, but also vision.
>> You're always telling us, man, vision's free. So, if if a pastor is listening right now,
>> the journey is, but vision's free.
>> Vision's free.
>> Dreaming is free.
>> Great practical step.
>> So, dream,
>> finish the podcast and then write down five dreams for you and then five vision things for your ministry, whatever it is [clears throat] you're leading.
>> And here's the tension is that do you write down things that have no chance of happening? And the answer is 100% yes, you do. because of Ephesians 3:20, our God is able to do exceedingly abundantly all that we could ask or imagine, right? One translation says or think. And so it's very healthy. In fact, even if it doesn't come true, uh the Hebrew word for dream and health are so close to being the same word. Now, why is that? Why why is dream and health almost the same word in the Hebrew language? Because dreaming will make you healthy. It just it it lifts your spirit. It points you towards something. It keeps you from settling. I can't recommend it more.
>> G give us one vision thing you're you're dreaming about for Highlands College that's like, man, this is this is a big deal or for how you're you're influencing Christian education in America.
>> Well, there are some I'm not prepared to share, but I will tell you to I will I'll tell you one, but I will tell you I have some that would make people go there's no way that's happening. But if you would have come to us uh in 2019, everything that is physically here right now, you would say, "This could have never happened." So, you're not you're not knocking me off of it. I mean, I I believe I've got some crazy hair raising ideas and dreams, including um helping >> uh a hundred or more of these universities pop up all over, not Highlands Colleges, help I want to go serve other church-based Christian universities to get a job done. So, >> build build their own college. I think I'm building I'm building the um I think I have the system and the structure that where that can actually become a reality. I just have a couple more years of getting that ready and actually finishing a model that that people can see. So
>> that's awesome. Great time to point out sitting here with two Highlands College graduates, Adam College and Grace as well.
>> And my first job on staff was actually being a part of the team. I was hired in 2018. being a part of the team that worked at this building before it was renovated, pitching to donors and saying, "Can you can you see what we see?" And that's actually how I met you professionally was because I was a student going in front of donors and saying,
>> "I know it looks like this building, but what if it looked like this? What if the fountain was here? What if this green space? What if we had a thousand students on campus?" So, it's just very full.
>> When I fell in love with this precious young lady, too, and I went to my son and said, "You need to check this girl out. brother, pay attention. [laughter]
>> Yeah, please take her out. See if something can can happen there. So,
>> was that Dream Again series? That was 200.
>> I can't remember what year it was. Yeah.
>> Uh 11 or 12.
>> 12. Is it that far? I just remember I posted on Instagram. I said, you know, I have a on my bucket list is to become a certified scuba diver. And I I put the the address and everything. Like 25 people showed up and we all got
>> showed up to like a small group.
>> Like a small group. We all got
>> in the middle of landlocked Alabama. You got
>> there's a there's [laughter] a there's a quarry like 20 minutes from here. This like the coldest water in Birmingham and you can get certified to be a scuba diver.
>> And are you
>> Yes, we all got it.
>> That's That's awesome.
>> I thought the message worked.
>> Yeah, it worked.
>> That's great. All right, next question.
>> So So uh this is crazy to think about. Okay,
>> but um you uh launched Highlands when you were my age.
>> Oh, you were 38?
>> Yeah, I was 38.
>> So I'm 36.
>> Okay. If you could go back to 38-year-old Chris, like what would you tell him if you had like, you know, a few minutes with him?
So, let me tell you, let me tell I get asked that question a lot and and I I get different ages. I'll say, "What would you what would you do when you're 20? What would you change when you're 25?" And let me give you the real answer and then I'll give you the one you want.
>> Okay?
>> Okay? Because the real answer is I wouldn't change anything because all the bad stuff that I would change is where I learned all the greatest lessons. So I would go change all the bad stuff, all the bad decisions, but it were but hands down it was all the bad days that taught me some of the most important life lessons. So if I want to stay true to myself, I would say I wouldn't change a thing. I made some mistakes, especially early on in my life and and was learning. So I I was I was I in in many ways um uh in my leadership, in my team building, which was almost non-existent. all of that. I would go change all of that that would say, "Man, that's not the way to do it." But it was the hardship of going through that, but that became the greatest lesson. And why am I saying that >> is I I would love for everybody listening to appreciate the hardships better and to realize they're going to teach you something far greater than having not made those mistakes. And what happens is if you can get the right mindset, and this is a John Maxwell ism. He calls it failing forward. You're going to fail. If you can if you can redefine your failures as a way to teach you something so great that it propels you forward, then you appreciate it, your attitude's better, you're going to learn more. So that's the real answer. I wouldn't change a thing. Now, what I've learned that I thought, man, I wish I would have known this at the I had no idea how important relationships would be.
>> Wow. If there's one thing that as I'll be 63 in a few months looking back over my life, the one thing that that propelled me more outside of the grace of God that's completely undeserved, the thing that propelled me further, made the biggest difference, grew me, gave me the opportunities were people.
>> And so I would be I would I would be looking for people more. I would I would I call it being curious about relationships. Um cuz now I mean you know you came on our team as a video editor and look at the relationship that we have now. Um and the the great potential that was in you when you were basically telling us I can only edit videos or this is what I want to come here for like and but I wish I would have gone but I bet there's a whole lot more in math than video editing. I wasn't doing that. I was hiring a video editor and now I've learned to do that. Almost every relationship I meet I never take it for for surface value. I asked the question, what else is there? How long should I know them? What could we do together? And I'm asking those questions and I wasn't doing that when in my in my 30s.
>> So speak to the leader for a second who's out there who's listening who's being like, man, I'm kind of in a relational deficit right now. Give and you've done this a little bit, but give a couple of just practical steps. What can they do right now just to shore that up in their own lives? Because it is such an important piece.
>> It's first before there's a step, you have to have a belief that there's gold in there.
>> The problem with gold is it has to be mind. You have to go dig for it. It's there though. There is something inside of every person that can add value to your organization, add value to your life. There's beauty inside of them. There are things that make them so unique and and and so precious like gold that but you have to go mining it. And sometimes people have buried their gold in their past, their hurts, their insecurities, all. So you have to dig around that stuff and it takes a lot of work honestly. It's it's dinners, it's coffees, it's small groups, it's conversations, it's prayer, it's it's pointing at them and saying, "Man, there's more inside of you. Come on, let's get give it. Give it give it. Let's let's go there." You know, and and and and all three of you guys, I I've had stages of that relationship where that's that's happened. And people have done that to me. Honestly, the reason why I know it, Matt, is because I was insecure and I was underdeveloped. You would have not picked me at 20 years old. I promise you, you would have not picked me. here. I see these Highlands College students walking in the hallways right now. I see all they they show so much great potential. You you would have never even let me in the school.
>> I mean, I I just I just didn't have that. And yet, u people came around me and said, you know, there's gold inside of there and I'm going to dig for it. I'm going to believe in you. And you know, and so so that's what people need to do. I always say there's a three. You want your steps. You got to see it, say it, start it. You have to see. You have to see inside of them what they cannot see in themselves. You have to see it. So you have to look beyond who they are and see who they could become. And you do that with like little kids. Like you imagine when they're six years old. Oh, I wonder if they're going to be a nurse one day or a school teacher or a pastor or whatever, right? And because you see them beyond their un their underdeveloped little little bodies and little minds, right? And you we need to do that with adults, too. It's great.
>> We need to I wonder who they could become. So, you have to see it. You have to say it. Never underestimate the power of of your prophetic language. And that's why Grace will tell you when she walks into my house, "Hey, beautiful."
>> I I said, "Hey, beautiful." And I hug her and I give her a little kiss on the head. That's that's that's what I do. Yeah. She'll tell you every time she walks through the door, I I I say to her, she is beautiful, but I'm telling her, you're be beautiful. It's great.
>> Step into that place that you that you already are. And I think there's something about a prophetic word. Never passing up an opportunity to say it, see it, say it, and then start it means start a development process. You have to pick, you have to find something. It's basically a small group. You got to find an environment where we're going to have the conversations. We're going to dig into God's word. We're going to go through disciplehip. We're going to we're going to do something. We're going to read a book together. We're going to go on a trip together.
>> Adam and I have been on dozens of them. you you and I have Matt and and some of the best conversations happen you know waiting for an airplane waiting for you like that's when it happens so you have to have some kind of development process and it's a long game but it pays off
>> well and the intentionality because I think we we it's so easy for all of us everybody I don't know any non- busy people everybody's busy if you don't make this a priority in your calendar it won't happen because most of those conversations are happening in between services you asking me
>> hey are you really doing what God's called you to do and I was like thrown off like manly I hope so. Like I think I am, you know, like why? You're like, I mean, God's given you a love for people. Like, I just think maybe you should think about being a pastor. I never had that thought before in my life.
>> And you're an exceptional woman.
>> But taking the time though to get out of to get get out of make making being on the rails, this is what I do. And you've done that in so many side conversations and small conversations.
>> Thank you. If I if I am anything, I'm intentional. And so I it's not natural for me either, but I am I walk into the room saying, "Who can I do that for? What can I say?"
>> Great. And like I said, even time every time the family comes in, you that that I'm going to affirm it and pull it out, say it in some kind of a way.
>> Well, I think one thing that makes you so intentional is you have margin.
>> If you don't have margin, you can't be intentional. If you don't have the time to notice, if you don't have the time to be a notice or have prophetic eyes to see, you blow by things, but you make everyone feel so seen and noticed. But it's cuz you have the margin to you have the margin to have a conversation at the airport. You're not rushing to one thing or the other. And so I think I mean I wish people understood how intentional you are and how everything has such great thought behind it. And so you kind of touched on it, but a follow-up question to what would you go back and do in your 30s is you have five kids. That takes a lot of intention. You know that's you have to and there are five amazing children. So, think about where you were when you did start Church of the Highlands and in your 30s and your 40s raising young kids. How were you an intentional father, which any leader that's watching this knows that ministry can pull you a lot, jobs and being a leader means you have a lot of things taking your attention away. So, how did you stay intentional with your family during that time?
>> Well, let me just be very honest and say I wasn't very good at it at first. I was I was a very driven leader trying to build a great church and and sometime there were there were years >> where the family did not get the best of me. The church did and my job did and so I learned and I learned lessons the hard way by the grace of God. None of those turned out to be permanent [clears throat] >> mistakes and and I was and and I and the family were given second chances if you will to get to get it right again. And so I'm grateful for that. And so I wish I could say I I did it. I did it perfectly um back then. Um but I really didn't. But what I did do anytime I want to do something intentional and this people criticize or not criticize me but they pick on me for this answer. But it really is the truth. I try to build a system to make sure it gets done because I don't trust me. So when I don't trust me and I don't trust me if I you let me just lead by my feelings. I'm taking a lot more naps. I'm just I'm eating a lot more food. But I'm just But if you if I build in a a a system for something that makes me do something and and I can be disciplined, but I need a way. So for for instance, I had we had a family night. Uh we just had a family night and the kids knew that we were going to have a big meal. Um we were going to play games. Um and it was and we and and even when I would had to travel on that night, I would go to them and ask their permission.
>> Yeah. Even though I'd already told the people, "Yes, I'm coming." Yeah.
>> But I went to him and said, "Hey, is it okay if dad if we move family night from Tuesday to Thursday this week?" Of course, they always said yes. But I was trying to get I was trying to put into place something that if I did have to travel on what was family night, it has to be replaced. We have to cancel what we were doing on Thursday night to do that because I was going to stay true to it because I knew if I didn't honestly, I would have been a fail. I'd have been a complete failure. And so the system I set up something date night or date lunch on every Monday. Almost did that without fail for 40 years of marriage, you know. Um but but just because we stated it, put it in place. We're going to do it and built things around that. So that's literally how I do that.
>> Hey, true story. Last night, so we've done this for years. My kids are 18, 16, 13, 11. They're a little older. Monday night's been our night. So no baseball practices, no dance. Like it's it's our night. And last night, um, one of my kids texted me said, "Dad, pumped about tonight." And I looked on my calendar and realized, "Oh man, I messed up. There's a bunch of campus pastors in town. We all hung out together. I had to go repent to my family for a missing family night."
>> And they loved it, though. They were like, "Dad, we got you. You've been on us about it." Like they they hang on to it. They remember. Yeah. It's been It's been a lot of fun. Especially the older they get.
>> So, you got to put something in place. Yeah.
>> Like like another one is I don't do breakfast. You can't get [clears throat] a breakfast with me.
>> Facts. I've tried.
>> Yeah. We should because my brain operates best in the morning. My spirit's freshest. So, I spend time with God and and I study the Bible.
>> That's your creative time.
>> But I but I but I stick because I would love to go to breakfast. Honestly, I love breakfast food. You know, I love and I enjoy eating out with people. But when I set it in place, I before my feelings ever get involved in the process, the answer is already no. And that's what a system does for me. It says, "No, no, no. How about lunch? How about dinner? Can we grab coffee?" You know, it's just going to be the pat answer. And that that way I don't get get in where my feelings were making decisions.
>> But I think every great leader I mean if you whether it's you pastor Craig Oelle I mean you're you're not
>> he's honestly makes me look like I didn't have a disciplined bone in my body. [laughter]
>> If you get a lunch with him it's going to be in his building and here's the two menu items, the decisions made. He has a system lined up and so and we don't have to be megaurch pastors to do that. We we need systems to help guide our lives.
>> Anything that matters to you, you do. And if your kids matter to you, you better build something great that is that is a that is a
>> we don't touch this. This it's holy.
>> This is holy. And and and do things come up? Of course they do. Like like for you last night that just that's going to happen. Um but you got to put some things in place that are holy.
>> That's really good. Y
>> lighter question.
>> Okay.
>> What's your uh plans with Miss Tammy for your 40th anniversary?
>> Well, you changed subject quick there. Our turn. [laughter]
>> Yeah, we we already have it planned. I've been working on it for almost six months now. Uh we we are going to celebrate our anniversary in Italy. Wow.
>> So our favorite place on earth is Italy and it's because of the food. Let's just be honest. Okay. So we go to places where the food's good. Um but so we're going to celebrate. Yeah. There.
>> All right. So question. Um what is something you wish more people asked you about?
>> Wow. Because I feel like we're hitting some of the stereotypical things, but what is like what is a question you wish you could people would ask you a question about that you could talk about more often?
>> [sighs]
>> Uh probably my routines. Um and I do get asked that from time to time. Senior pastors. Um I've worked very very hard to build in, you know, my my life routines and to to serve what I what I want it to spit out, so to speak, you know. So, um that's one of them. Um they probably I I don't even know how to articulate this. Man, it's hard it's hard to answer some of these questions because it sounds like oh, you know, everybody asked me because I am the standard here, you know, and and I'm not. So,
>> you would gladly say you're still figuring this out in a long process.
>> But but I am a big dreamer and I and um I wish people asked me what I was you did it earlier and I wouldn't tell you, but I wish asked me what I'm really dreaming and why I'm why I'm doing that. And I and if I could put something inside of people, I articulate it this way. I'm not sure this is the right way to articulate it. I have an abundance mentality.
>> Wow.
>> I I don't think there's a limitation to anything. I think it can be done. So, I think a lot of people limit themselves to just the possibilities and I really don't go there. I really think
>> wow
>> I that that could be accomplished and I call it an abundance. I think people have a scarcity mindset and I I I would wish they would ask me more about how I developed that because I grew up with a scarcity mindset.
>> I grew up in a poor area of Baton Rouge um with you know very little money with a very bad I mean I was not an educated person. I you know I wasn't book smart. I was I'm more street smart. I'm relational smart. Um I got books smart late my brain didn't turn on till I was in my late 20s. I never I felt it. I remember thinking, "Oh man, all of a sudden everything made sense to me."
>> Wow.
>> Um like even math and science, everything made sense to me. Um but but I had a scarcity mindset and and I coach and counsel and mentor a ton of pastors and they have a scarcity mindset. It's a very limited and and I think we need to push ourselves beyond the uh John Maxwell calls it the law of the lid. We have to figure out ways to lift our lid. And there are ways you can lift your lid, by the way. And one of the greatest ways is is to go see something bigger than you. And I would go to conferences. I went to Hillsong back in the day in Australia and my mind was blown.
>> You'd come back and for three days we're having creative meetings. Hey, what if we did this? What if we
>> sit in a room for 5 days of 26,000 people worshiping God and you know you and it lifted my lid. I thought, wait a minute, you know, and the closer you get to some of these people, you you think they're superstars until you actually spend time with them and you think, wait a minute, I could do this, too. God could do this through somebody like me too. And so that would be it'd be along those lines. So I don't know how to answer that question, but that would
>> So April 15th, big day, new book coming out.
>> So tell us more about the book. And then um we were looking at questions to ask you. What's your favorite part of the book? Favorite chapter, favorite message you're you're conveying.
>> Thank you. Uh yeah, so I'm very excited about this book. This is the first one that I've written what John Max would call a crossover book meaning it's not overtly you know uh Christian um I am a Christian and it's very clear in it I'm a Christian I talk about my faith throughout the book obviously but but it's not a Christian book
>> um you know every book I've written like u out of the cave was an outline of of of a chapter of the Bible you know of how to how to deal with depression and anxiety I mean it's it's literally um first kings 19 So, and and most of mine are that way. Well, this this is one I wanted to write as a principles book. It started out I was going to be my, you know, my Jordan Peterson 12 principle, kind of my book. And and next thing I knew, I had like 17 principles. And then I'm trying to figure out how to make that fit. And next thing you know, it grew to 25. And I thought, what's going on here? And I thought, well, if I have 25, I might as well have 31 and make it one for a day. And then it turned into shorter chapters, little essays, which was kind of fun. So 31 essays, which means you could read any chapter. You could read them out of order. You could read whatever principle you wanted to read. So it started that way. I'm along I I took off time in the summer to to do some writing. And I'm around chapter 17 when like I do when I write, I was summarizing the chapter. Usually usually last paragraph of a chapter to summarize the chapter. So tell them one more time what you told them. [laughter] And so I decided to do it in letter form. And I ended up I it was a whim. I went, "Dear grandkids."
>> Wow. And see, there you go. You're already feeling it. And I went, "Dear grandkids." And I restated the principle like from a papa to a grandchild.
>> And almost like a letter you could read after I was gone.
>> Never forget this. And here's why. Let me tell you why this is so important. Please make the choice to do this. Love, Papa. And I and and I I was I was like, "Wait a minute. That's cool. That that's cool." So I ran downstairs. My little office is upstairs. I went downstairs and I said, "Tammy, read this chapter, then read this little letter I wrote at the end." And I came back three minutes later and she's sobbing. She's sobbing on on the couch. Oh my god. She This This is one of the best things you ever wrote. So, I went back and and put a letter at the end of every chapter. And not to my grandkids. I I write a dear friend. And I wrote this endearing I'm gone now. Please don't forget this letter at the end of every principle. So, I'm calling the book Legacy Letters: Timeless Principles I Learned, Lived, and Leave Behind. And and I'm really excited how it turns out. So, I'm almost done with the book, chapter 31, and uh and I'm I'm I'm talking with John Maxwell's like because he's helping with with my writing a little bit and give me advice along the way. And he goes, "Oh, Chris, got a great idea." He goes, "You need to put after the very last chapter a page that says only turn this page if you want to hear more about my more about my faith." Wow.
>> And so there's a bonus principle. There's a 32nd chapter and and the 32nd chapter is you only live twice. That everything that everything I do I put through the lens. I'm going to stand before God one day. And and in the chapter I lead people to Jesus. And the letter is the closing prayer for them to receive Jesus as their Lord. So that's the final letter of the whole book. So I'm hoping that God will even use this book who picked it up a secular audience and ended up finding the Lord. But if you're asking me about my Ain't that going to be cool, by the way? I know. I'm kind of excited.
>> The audio book. I heard there was some some work being done in the audio book. I've already talked about the audio book.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Adam helped me. We It took us three days to record the audio book.
>> He he personally read me the entire book. [laughter]
>> It was amazing.
>> That's right. Yeah. got to see some of the
>> sitting on my knee. No, I'm just kidding.
>> Dear Adam, no, we got to see some of the cover art. And I want to know too, really when you think about, you know, the end of your life and your your golden years,
>> not anytime soon.
>> He's going to live forever. Um I do, you know, may I don't even want to think about it.
>> [laughter]
>> But neither really when you were writing this book and you are writing to your grandkids, if you could have them remember one thing about you when what do you want them to say? My papa was blank.
>> I want to be very clear there. I messed up in so many areas and had to learn so much. But but what I try to be for the people around me is I don't ever want to walk in the room and they're thinking what kind of mood is in is he in today?
>> I I wanted to be known makes me want to tear up. I I want to be known as somebody who's just predictable. It's even the way even the way I dress. I I I just I try to be in this conservative just this almost boring, but but man, we don't have to second guess him. We know who he is today. We know who he'll be tomorrow. I wanted there to be just like this steadiness cuz I because I wanted to be that steadying force in a world that is constantly changing, constantly freaking out. And I just wanted to be this just the same old guy just, you know, I mean, I want to learn new tricks. I don't want to be this old dog, you know, but but at the same time, um I think people need something that's steadying in their life. And that's what I hope people say about me, that man, he was consistent,
>> you know, I I would I want to be known as generous. I I want to be a generous, consistent, you know, open-handed, selfless guy. Didn't always get it right, you know, and I've lot I've got lots of faults. I'm very impatient. I'm very I can be very demanding at times, you know, things like that. So, I'm I'm I'm a bit too task oriented over my people orientation, but um that's what I that's that's what I want, you know, and so like and one of the principles in the book that I that and I the first line of the chapter is this is deeply personal to me. That's the first line of the chapter and it's called the second chance principle. And here's the principle. Give people a second chance. Yeah.
>> You never know when you're going to need one, too. No.
>> And um and then I write about that how we're so quick to cancel somebody and you're one and done and there's just like no room for somebody to to be human for a second there. And um and so I I write about that. That's like that's an example of one that I'm that I I find very personal that I'm trying to pass on.
Well, I think that it's been fun watching you over the past two years being in in a pretty reflective space even with the transition with the church and you know, Pastor Mark stepping in because you're even telling us as a team and as a church, hey, don't forget this, right? We pray first,
>> right?
>> You know, there were these these values that you made sure were front and center. And I think for all of us as leaders, no matter who we're leading, kids,
>> my spouse, my friends, my team, do they know what's most important to me? and are you sad enough to to help that play out in real life? We love you. Appreciate you, too. Thanks, guys. This is fun.
>> Hey, Grace text me. She said asked me to do this and I said, "Well, you know, I'm used to be on the other side of the camera." And I said, "Anything for PC?" And it's because of the 13 years of
>> Thank you, friend. I love every one of you guys. And you guys let us know if you like this format. We may do it again cuz I don't It didn't look like we got through half of your questions.
>> I think we got through three. And I say this, hey, if you have questions for Pastor Chris, uh, [music] email them to infoggrowleader.com for all things Grow Leader as far as events, calendar, Pennsylvania, we're coming to see you.
>> Yeah, can't wait.
>> At the end of April,
>> come to Pennsylvania. If you're anywhere in that area, come come to the
>> We need the Quakers, the Steelers, the Phillies, [laughter] the Eagles, everybody to come see us in Pennsylvania. We'll see [music] you next time on the Grow Leader Podcast.