Transcription
For reapplicants, this is where the thing becomes even harder because now you have a mental thing that you're going to lose again and again. Isan is with me, and he's going to discuss with me how he was able to get 10 invites and three acceptances over the past two years.
Throughout his journey, he's originally from India, lived in Canada, then did a fellowship at the University of Pittsburgh in Periodontology. He had quite an extensive experience in dentistry, doing different things, improving a lot of things in his profile. I got the opportunity to work with him, and today I'm going to pick his brain, ask him some questions that might help other people to improve their profile and get accepted to their dream schools. So, thank you, Isan. Thank you for your time.
Thank you, Dr. Williams. And it was my honor to have you on my side during my application process, and I'll be lucky to help any other fellow students. And I believe they would be lucky also to have you by their side. Thank you.
Sean, so how do you pronounce your last name? I was trying to do this before the recording, and I couldn't get it right. So, how do you pronounce your last name?
Dr. AA, I will get it right afterward. But Somay. So, here's the here's a question, Doc. So, originally, you're from Punjab, India. After your graduation, you came to Canada, right? So, and then you lived in Canada, and then you moved to the US. Am I right?
Correct. Yeah. So, can you briefly tell us how much time you've been living in the US? And you got accepted to UCSF, Pittsburgh, and Temple until now, and you gave 10 total interviews this year, right?
Fortunately, yes. Okay. Let's let's reverse engineer. Let's reverse engineer. So, let's talk about your US experience. When did you come here, and what have you been doing?
Um, so, if let's go by the Indian experience, so I graduated back in 2018 from SGR in Punjab. It's a dental school in Amritsar, very prestigious. And I moved, I worked there for six months in the Civil Hospital. It's like a medical hospital, and I worked under an oral surgeon. I did two research projects during my dental school, went to a few public health camps, and then moved to Canada by the end of 2018.
I moved to Canada for a public health program, and thereby I stayed over for like three, four years in Canada. During that time, in my public health program, I also got the opportunity to do my dental assistant licensing. I worked under an endodontist for three years as a dental assistant, and then moved to the United States last year, in actually at this point in 2023, because we're 20 in 2025. So I moved in June of 2023 to the United States to do the fellowship in Periodontology at the University of Pittsburgh.
And so you lived in, sorry, you lived in Canada for about three years?
No, I lived in Canada for about five years.
And did you do this healthcare M, was it a Masters or a diploma?
It's technically a BHS. It's technically a public health degree, but it's a bachelor's degree.
Okay, BHS. Yeah. And so here's my question now. Since you have done a lot of different things, I get a lot of people calls from people who are right now in Canada. So, what's your advice to somebody who's working there as a dental assistant or looking for jobs, and you know, it's getting very saturated up there now, finding jobs and everything. So, what would be your advice to people who just landed or are already in Canada and want to pursue dentistry in the US? What would be the things they should do that would make their profile better?
Very nice question. Um, so here are two pathways. If you are in Canada, either you're going to start practicing or working towards your dream in Canada, or working towards your dream in the United States. Canada has still has a couple of different pathways. It's either you're going through the direct licensure pathway, or you go through the university pathway. You've got to figure out which one is you want. Nothing is easier. I would say both are evenly poised or evenly difficult, I would say. I figured myself out that I want to be in a university, whether it's in Canada or in the United States. I did not want to go through the licensure pathway. I had my reasons for those.
So, once you figure that thing out, you start to see at this point in Canada and in the US also, they're trying to have almost the similar exams. You do INBDE for the US, and some universities in the US also require ADAT. If not until the last cycle, they might be starting. Michigan, Michigan does. Actually, the University of Pittsburgh has a listing of ADAT on their website, optional, optional. It may become very competitive because what I saw this year is a lot of applicants had ADAT scores. I personally had it also. So, it does make.
So, what's a good score in ADAT? I never gave ADAT. Like, how is it like, TOEFL has 120 score, right? How does ADAT get scored, and what's a good score you're looking for US schools?
Anything above 500, you should consider good. Out of 800, it's an exam. Okay. Out of 800. And if you go beyond 600, that is where you find your, you would be competitive. Like, that's where you would be in the top five of the applicant pool.
So, people who don't know about ADAT, ADAT is actually an exam which DDS students give in order to get into postgraduate residency. A lot of schools for Perio, Endo, for Oro require you to give ADAT. Well, Oro requires you to give GRE, but a lot of these postgraduate programs would require ADAT. So, just to ask you, what are the subjects in ADAT?
It's an exam divided into three sections. One of the sections is your clinical sciences, in which all the clinical subjects that we all study in our final year get asked. The second section is your basic sciences, which is your dental anatomy, microbiology, physiology, biochemistry. That is, they get judged on that. And the third is for your research, research methodology. Is that tough?
And it's research methodology, and it's one more subject called biostatistics. It's more of like a mathematical thing. You've got to cram it. You've got to like study a little. No mean values, derivations, derivative, standard deviation stuff, mean, median. So, yeah.
Here's a question. Do you, compared to INBDE, how much more difficult is it, or the preparation part?
INBDE, I think because it has been given a lot longer, it has been there for a lot longer time. There is way more study material for it. There's Dental Decks, there's Bootcamp, there's a million things for it. ADAT, you don't have a lot of things to study for it. So, you have to find your ways to study for it. How I did was, I used the same material that I used for INBDE for the clinical part. For the basic sciences, I had to go back to the first year, and all the material that people used to use for the NBDE Part 1 when it used to happen. And for the research, for the biostats, that's another area of, I think First Aid, you use Assembly First Aid for material is used for that biostatistics portion. And usually, Part 3, that's what I used. And there are a lot of materials that come that's coming out of it. A lot of people are looking out for it because biostats, if you look into it, it's a subject that comes from medicine. I've studied it a little bit during my Masters. Yes. So, some part of my fellowship also had this subject of biostats. I think dental schools in their first or second years have such subjects, if I'm not wrong. Probably double-check for it. But this is that is a hard part. The clinical sciences is probably a little easier. The basic sciences and the biostats are a little harder too.
So, to make it convenient for people who are listening, so imagine if I'm somebody in Canada right now, I'm looking for dental assisting. I've known people who started doing pharmacy, became pharmacy assistants. Do you recommend giving ADAT?
For sure, for sure. Yeah. Here's one thing I've seen. I get, I've never gave ADAT when I was applying. And a lot of people will reach out to me and say, they're TOEFL is like 91 or 86, and they want to improve their profile. So, they want to give ADAT. Correct. What happens is, they go and give ADAT, and then they get like a 300, 400 score. And then I'm like, how is this useful now? So, I usually tell people, like, fix your foundation first, and then if you want to go for ADAT, go for it. But if your TOEFL, if you're not able to conquer TOEFL, you're unable to do the basic stuff correctly, if you have like other things are not correctly done, then it doesn't really affect, make a good effect.
So, here's a question. I was going to ask you, so did you give ADAT in Canada, or when you came here later on, you gave it?
I first touched upon two of those options. If you are giving an exam just to give an exam, it will not help you. If you're going to do something, let's say I give an example of my fellowship. If I'm just going to do the fellowship just because I spend like this much amount of dollars and it gets a certificate, it doesn't actually help. We had eight people in the fellowship that were doing the same thing, and only I applied and got the interviews. Everyone else also applied, they didn't. None of those got the DDS interviews. You have to like.
Yeah, my question is, yeah, I do understand that by the time you were applying in your fellowship, you had done a lot of different things, correct? But ADAT, did you give it back when you were in Canada?
Yes, yes, yes. So, you had ADAT done even in your first cycle. And this is your second cycle when you got 10 invites. In the first cycle, you got about two or three invites, right?
Three invites. Yeah. Okay. So, the question is, where do you feel like, how people, 90% of the time, people who reach out to me ask, how can I improve my profile? And we discussed about how you improve your TOEFL score. So, can you advise people what things they can do in order to increase their profile? Because you never did a lot of GP work in India. You flew and you came to Canada. You had an undergrad, which was a good thing because schools love it because you did schooling in North America. But what other things can they do? And can you emphasize on the importance of TOEFL and how they can improve their profile?
So, yeah, so first, like, start with your TOEFL. Take it to three digits. Any three digits should be fine. The higher the better, but start with the TOEFL. Then start moving on from there. Start doing your dental assisting wherever you are. You are in Canada, do dental assisting. You are in the US, do dental assistant. You cannot at least do shadowing. Try to also do volunteer work. It's this is what I have seen. Once maybe you get an invite, the colleges really want to know what other aspects you have other than doing just dentistry. This is what I felt that what else you bring to the table. Because if everyone has a good TOEFL score, obviously they get an invite, and everyone has dental assisting. What else would you have? That is where exams like ADAT come into picture. Doing research is also very helpful. It takes a little longer to do it. And publishing in any journal would not make a difference. Doing a good research, collaborating with good people, publishing in good journals, that makes sometimes way more difference.
So, let's bring it to a basic level for people who are just starting off. I'm somebody in Canada, I'm trying to find a dental assisting job right now. A lot of people tell me that in Canada, they require you to have a license, dental, be a registered dental assistant, get a proper license to get DA jobs. That's one thing. But how can they get? My first question would be, how can they find opportunities to do research, whether they are in the US or Canada? What is a way to look for it? The second question is, what are your suggestions? Because you made a significant improvement in your TOEFL, and that really had a good impact. How can people improve their TOEFL? What are the ways? What were the things or courses you did that improved your TOEFL?
Your first question was about research, like finding how can if I'm somebody in Canada or US and I want to look for research, what can I do? You have to get associated with someone who is in the dental school. So, if you are assisting with someone, let's supposingly there's a dentist who comes who is also a clinical practitioner or a professor in a dental school, probably University of Toronto or in Weston or any of the dental schools in Canada, or in any dental school in the US. That is where you can have an interaction with them. You develop a bond with them. And most often, the professors who are working in the academic facility, they are doing some kind of research to improve their CVs and to improve their acumen. So, that is where you can be a good part in that service. The other thing is to be doing preceptorships and fellowships. That is where you actually go into the field where you can do the research.
And what about TOEFL? Improving your TOEFL.
Um, TOEFL improvement is, I would say, how I improved is I started taking English classes. And not just English classes, I started interacting more and more with the public. I started, like, I started speaking in English even with my family and through everyone. And doing the practice exams. And there was a, there was a course through Veracity Tutors. I would say that's like an online institution. And they take mock exams, one-on-one mock exams of the whole TOEFL scenario. And that is how, basically, they judged me. And it's so.
Do you think Veracity University really helped you? Like, that thing helped you?
I would, I would recommend it. I would recommend it. Because, to be honest, one thing I've learned while working with people is most of the time they would know English. But when they sit down in an exam, and I remember my exam, it was the listening part of something, and I missed one question. And what happens, you keep thinking about that one, and you get the next one wrong too. And I tell people now, screw it. If you got something wrong, forget it. Keep your head in the game and fix the next thing that's coming in front of you.
Yes. So, okay, that's a good advice because a lot of people out. Thank you for sharing that. My advice is, give the exam once, know what your level is. Maybe your English level is already beyond what the 100 marks score. So, you don't even have to go for all these options. But for reapplicants, this is where the thing becomes even harder because now you have a mental thing that you're going to lose again and again. So, yeah.
Yep. One thing I've learned, like talking to people, people who reach out to me, and they say, I want to do, do you think I should apply in March? And I'm like, what's your profile like? Have you done TOEFL? And they said, no, we are going to give it next week. And I'm like, why are you talking to me right now? Like, go and prepare for your TOEFL. And I've gotten so frustrated that I tell people that they think, you know, how we go, we are coming back home from our school or work, and we say, on my way back, I'm going to go and grab tomatoes. Literally, people think that I'm just going to go and grab TOEFL and come and apply. And I've actually met somebody who has given 22 attempts and was not able to score 100. And I keep emphasizing to people, don't take it lightly. It's a freaking difficult exam. It's more difficult than INBDE for most people because we dentists are not trained in analytical exams. It's like an analytical engineering exam where you have to look at the strategy, have to be time-efficient. So, people who are watching this, please don't think that TOEFL is like buying tomatoes because you can get help in your personal statement, you can get help with other aspects, but you can't buy a TOEFL score. So, don't even think about anything. Just shut down everything, study hard, take help, go for coaching, look for exams, whatever it requires, but focus on it.
So, my next question is, why, why did you land it? Why did, how did you think about doing this fellowship program in Perio at the University of Pittsburgh? Why not a preceptorship? Why not another Masters? Why, why this fellowship?
It's a good question. Um, so I was doing the dental assisting back in Canada with an endodontist. I was working there for three years. This was going to be my fourth year of working. And I applied to dental schools in my first cycle, and I got the interview through the University of Pittsburgh. That is where I decided to look into the school offerings through the University of Pittsburgh, like what else they offer in their continuing education department, just to enhance my profile. At that time, the program director for the Periodontics, she, he, she was actually putting on the fellowship program because this was the first time they were trying to do it in the whole university. So, they put out this program, and one of my friends referred to me. And I was talking with my mentor, the endodontist who I was working with, and he suggested me, it's a good opportunity, Sean, for you. Go ahead. If you continue doing assisting for another year, it would make an impact, but would not make that huge of an impact if other than if you just go ahead and do the fellowship program from here.
So, that is where the question. He did mention, like, rather than doing one year of dental assisting, go and do this fellowship. But how much did it cost you?
It was low. $25,000 tuition fee. And the living cost is separate.
Living cost is separate. Yes. Okay. But you were fortunate that you also got the opportunity to work with the faculty and an assisting aspect as well while you were in school, right?
Yes. So, during the fellowship, I got an opportunity to work as a dental assistant in the faculty practice. And I think that was the biggest thing for the fellowship because I could work as a dental assistant there also during, like, it was like a couple of days to three days of work. But now I could know the whole of the faculty in the dental school. So, I was.
Allan, this is, sorry to cut you. This is a very important question. Today, somebody called me, and they said, I've been working with the faculty of a university, but when it came to invites, they didn't give me any importance or didn't even recognize. And I was on the phone, and I said, I can't teach people how to make good connections, how to create a good rapport, how to be in the good books of the faculty or the doctors. So, how were you able to make good connections that they were able to give you a job later on, an acceptance, and all the faculty knew? What would be the tips you will suggest to people on that?
This came to my head also. So, when I started, when I had to start doing that job, one of my very good friends, she told me the same thing that this is a double-edged sword. It could go either way. It could make you or break you. If you do good from here, then it will make you. I would say getting a job is kind of hard in the US on a student visa because, one, you would not have a Social Security number. So, you have to convince their HR department and everyone so that they wait until you have that Social Security and then start the job. I think it more, it boils down to your sincerity. Professors, they know that you may not know the best amount of work, but if you are there 24/7, I was there so many weekends, I was Saturday, Sunday, I was there in the school, in my program, doing my research, the lab in the similar where in the periodontics department. So, in our fellowship, we had our rooms designated to us to do the work. And not a lot of other fellows were there. So, and it started becoming a habit. And then all the other fellows started coming because it was started being appreciated by the faculty. So, that is where you start to gain importance in the faculty.
So, pretty much what you're saying, if you want to be, for people who are listening, there are a couple of things. I'll rephrase to you, but he's saying, if you want to create good connections with doctors, with your faculty, with the people that you're working with, you have to work your butt off. You've got to be the most hardworking person in the room. And as an immigrant, that's what they are looking for. And on top of that, you have to be a positive person. You can't. I see people, they work two days, three days, and after that, they start complaining about something or somebody not treating them well. To be honest, you will get ill-treated. Not everything is going to be fair in life or in these institutions. The biggest thing that people will get inspired from you or will get impressed by you is if that you're not being treated fair, but you're still working harder than the rest of the people. And when you do that, that's when real people give you attention.
So, just to summarize what he said. So, overall, you said it was about $23,000, and with the living cost and everything, must be like another like $40,000 around that ballpark, correct?
So, overall, overall, since you came to Canada, applying to dental school multiple cycles, getting coaching, whether it was bench exam, whether it was interview, working with me, other stuff, applying for these, how much do you think approximately it has cost you until now? Just to throw, the reason I'm not to enter into your personal affairs, but people who are sitting right now, somebody sitting in, somebody sitting in Mexico, Middle East, somebody sitting in Nepal, they should know about this that what's the cost of pursuing this dream. Probably like $80 to $90,000 over these years that you have spent just to get accepted. And after that, obviously, you're going to pay for your DDS before you get the license and start working. So, the reason I asked this question is, people should be mentally prepared. You don't want to jump into the ocean with $10,000 and think you're going to survive because you're going to apply to few schools and then it's not going to work out. And if you need better coaching, if you need better opportunities, yes, you have to spend money.
So, coming back to that fellowship, you mentioned now they don't call it fellowship now, they changed the word to Clinical Research in Perio, correct?
They're more trying to do like, if you want to be someone who wants to get trained into clinical skills, so they will let you practice as a, give you like a faculty license to practice. I think Dr., you can explain what faculty license means after this. And you can even do your research, which was part of the fellowship, and get like an F1 visa. So, it's people who are listening to this, this is a very, very, very big thing. I was telling Allan that if a school is letting you work clinically on a human being without a DDS license or without being a resident, in what he was telling me that recently, Pittsburgh has changed its clinical research, changed its fellowship into clinical research, and during that time, now they allow you to work on humans as well, on patients, live patients, which is a big thing because getting live patient experience in the US is very difficult without DDS. And plus, you're working in Perio, so you're around surgery. I think it's a very big opportunity at this point if you're looking for. And Pittsburgh isn't paying me for this, but if you're looking for hands-on experience, I think this would be a very good opportunity to improve your profile and do this.
The next question I wanted to ask you is, so from your second to this cycle, if you have to point out to people, somebody's going to apply like people who are watching this are going to apply in March. What are the things you would suggest to them? Looking back, imagine you're giving advice to your own self two years ago. What things will you suggest them to focus on when it comes to personal statement, when it comes to bench exam, when it comes to interview preps, applying to school, finances? What will you suggest to them?
Let's say you are in a case to get more interviews. That's what we are all looking for, no? Imagine they are applying to CAPID right now. Yep. They're going to be applying to CAPID. So, first, take off the basics. Do your INBDE, get the TOEFL scores, have some kind of assisting experience. Stick off all these basics. Work, volunteer work. Once these are done, or during this time, I would say your personal statement is a very big aspect of your application because, see, your application is just like a, like a page, like words to the other person who is viewing it. They're not seeing you in person. They don't know you. They haven't seen you before. So, all you can communicate through your personal statement is what they're going to realize who you are as a person. And that is what, at the end of the day, would matter to them if they're going to select you or not. And they have like a millisecond of chance between one or the other person to put someone in the interview. Then comes your letter of recommendations. I was told, and I think it's a very nice word that's come out, get a letter of recommendation either from someone who is a very high person, they may write anything, or get a letter of recommendation who writes very good about you. If a person has, you feel doesn't have a very high designation, but is willing to write way beyond for you, get his recommendation letter. If a person you feel is like has is working in like military, is a dentist, has been like a very renowned personality, then get, and you're getting his recommendation letter, take, take that. Those recommendation letters would mean a lot. And that is where you would end up literally having an interview.
Okay, good. And from the aspect, one key thing I tell people, Isan and I got to work during the interview preparation, and then he had multiple interviews. He was getting interviews from one place, another place, another place, another place. He was getting bench exams as well. And then there was silence. And Isan would message me and would talk to me. And I would say, well, you're getting so many invites, but we aren't getting any results. And back end, I would just tell him, like, keep working hard, you'll get it. But back end, I was looking at his profile and I was thinking, like, this guy is getting so many invites. Maybe he made mistakes in the interview in one place, maybe two. But in 10 places, by now, he would be really good with his interview. And I saw him in the interview prep. So, I got the idea. And so, can you tell me how the waiting time? Like, I know this is more frustrating than anything because you're right at the doorpost, but the door is not opening. And you're giving your best, you know, you've done the best. But how was that period like, from a patient standpoint, throughout this journey, what were the key things that helped you sustaining your patience while being positive? A lot of people become negative right away when they are not getting what they want. So, what's your suggestion on that, Isan?
It was a very difficult phase. One, because I was a reapplicant. I knew if this year wouldn't work out, I am running short of funds. What will I do next year? And it was coming to the end of November, almost like mid, mid-November, November 15th. And I was like, I had so many interviews, I've given all the interviews, I've given all the bench exams, I've done every part where it requires. But this waiting time is literally killing me. And the first thing, I think this was told by my program director. He realized it when he saw me sitting in, like, sitting in the fellowship and doing nothing. He's like, Isan, you need to do something. You need to do some work. Pick up a paper, or pick up a research project, or go assist some residents, or do something. Don't sit idle waiting for a result to happen. Because if you do that, nothing will happen. The moment you start doing something in your life, you invite the universe to work around you and work for you. And these all results just happen on its own. You have given your part. Now let God do its work, and it will happen for sure. In the next three weeks, I got literally three acceptances, and it changed my whole life after that.
Yeah, I usually tell people this is in the US, that you don't get things. There's always a divine time for things. And I personally think we, as humans, are not ready to have everything. So, I believe there's a, we have to become something before we deserve things. So, there's a process we have to go through. The reason I ask this question is because I get a lot of candidates, especially female, who are very anxious, going through a very rough time. I was doing a poll on my Instagram and WhatsApp, and people who are watching this, they can take a look at my Instagram in the description as well, that how many people cry during this process. There's a large number of people who cry during this process. I mostly did my crying in the dental school, not before it. But a lot of people cried during the CAPID process. And I thought about this time, like, patience is a very important thing. And what you said, your program director said, one of the best ways to overcome thinking, overthinking, and stress is to do something. Like, literally go and do something. Physical action will overcome that emotion. That's one of the biggest things.
So, before we end, a couple of things I'm going to ask you. What about the bench exam? What coachings did you take? You, what about your bench exam part? Because you've given enough bench exams as well.
The first bench exam I gave, first few bench exams I gave was in 2023, and that was with the University of Pittsburgh. And they told me as a feedback because I was doing their fellowship, and I was good with them. And they told me, you need to improve your bench exam skills, and you need to do the cutting, you need to do the crown preps, you need to do the class twos. Maybe get a compressor, maybe do something. And because the more interviews you get, it will turn to bench exams in the schools that have bench exams. If you don't clear those bench exams, it will not affect anything. You will be at the same level where you were the next year. So, I started going to, to Stevenson. Actually, I did two courses at Stevenson to do the, to improve my bench exam skills. And even during my fellowship time, during the whole year, I was, like, after school hours, they had the sim clinic, which was sim lab, which was open to students. So, I would go there and I would take the help of the D3 and D4 students. And I got to make some connections from the D3 and D4 students, and they used to help me, and they used to teach me what they learned, and what helped them, and what did not help them. So, these all experiences in total made, became very good when I went to bench exams this year. This year, I almost gave like, I think five or six bench exams, and two of those got accepted, went into acceptance. So, I think so, you need to do those skills. And some people really love to use loops, some people do not like to use loops for the bench exams. It is your prerogative, but whatever results you want, if you are doing 100% in your practice, when you're practicing, your final exam would be good.
Okay, that's good. And what about the interview? So, in your second, in your first cycle, you had two interviews, and then in the 10, and that, and I met you for the interview prep. What's your advice when it comes to the interview prep part?
I think before the first cycle, I didn't take any interview preps. I just went as is. And after that, when I took your advice and your help, one thing I realized from the interview was I was not vulnerable enough. And I think this was something which probably the universities were also looking into, that okay, this guy has done this amount of work, this amount of experience, but can we actually trust him? Does he tell us about the failures? And I was not doing that. And this is what you pointed out during the interview prep. And then I went into a self-realization to see that actually was happening. And I improved on those skills. And when I, the time of the actual interview came, it was just being more natural because there was no fear of losing at this point because I had enough experience with you, with my previous cycle, and it went like more of like a conversation. In fact, the UCSF interview, which was scheduled for 30 minutes, it went on for one hour. And I was with the program director of the program, and he really loved it. And he was telling about himself, his family, and all the students, and how the class functions there. And he really loved, I believe, and it led to an acceptance over there also. So, be yourself. Try to talk towards someone. Try to be more vulnerable, more open. Don't shy of things. Don't hide things. Don't make stories. I would say, present yourself what you are. And if someone over the other side of the camera will like, is going to like you, they will like you anyways.
So, yes. So, there's one more thing I would want to touch about during this cycle of interviews. This would come up way more in the next cycle is your Kira Talent things. Now, this is where it is for some schools. I think for NYU and some other schools, for Columbia, Indiana, is part of the interview, in which you have to record yourself giving answers to some computerized exam.
Yep. Yes. And most of us, including myself, were not comfortable without talking to anyone. We're just recording ourselves. It's like almost like someone who's like doing a YouTube video. So, it's just a time process. You have to get comfortable over doing that. Pick a camera, record yourself, see what you say, and how you perform, and then keep on improving.
Yep. And definitely, I've made some videos on Kira Talent assessment because it's comparatively different because right now we are talking to each other. But then Kira Talent assessment or MMIs, whatever you want to call it, including Casper, is just like a question will pop up in front of you, and then give you three seconds to think, and then you have to reply to a camera, which sounds very weird to us because most dentists have never done it. But hopefully, I'll try to put some videos in the description if somebody wants to see that as well.
So, it's pretty good. Like, you mentioned about the interview part, that vulnerability. I definitely remember. And it's different for everybody. With men, mostly, especially who have done things, we are coming from a point of our, what do you call, like our achievements. We are coming from an area of achievement, trying to show this is the hard work we put in, and this is the result that we got. And then I personally sometimes see, okay, now you have to switch to your human side. And so, show that, okay, beside this, I like to play football, I have a dog, I have a puppy, I like to fall down and laugh on it. And that's the other side of you. And I think that shows that you're a balanced side. But sometimes I get people who are other on the other side of the spectrum, where they show too much of the human side and less of the professional side. So, to those people, I say, okay, good that you're a very lovely person, you like to speak a lot, and you're an extrovert, but let's make it a little bit more professional. So, they would like your professional aspect too. So, glad you brought that point. And I'm really happy all of this worked out.
One of the things I will point out to people, if when I look at Isan's achievement right now, a couple of things that's really helped him. Obviously, he financially invested a lot. He worked with me in the coaching, then he was going to Stevenson twice, living there, paying for the fellowship, doing an undergrad in Canada. Like, a lot of this was a lot of commitment. Most immigrants would come in and buy a Camaro for that price, but you did. You invested all of that in your education, which is a good thing. And the second thing, if you read between the lines, is that the places he was working at, he wasn't just working hard, he was making contacts. That's a very important ability, a skill that I personally suggest people you should acquire because being an immigrant coming from India, Pakistan, China, or whatever country you're coming from, having a different name, nobody really cares about you or your story. It's only when you create an emotional bond with them that they get invested in you. So, these are some of the things I've seen in his story that has helped him. So, I hope people who are watching this video helps you.
Any last word, Isan, before we stop the recording? Because one thing I tell people that if you're interested in preparing for your next cycle, if you need help with your personal statement or the CAPID process, they can reach out to me. Everything's going to be in the description. But any last words you want to tell people that might help them before we end this?
I would say, trust yourself. Look out for things. Don't just sit idle. Don't just think that you are trapped in a box of, you are just doing that. For instance, when I was doing the fellowship, there was something called as Mission of Mercy. It's like a volunteership, and that's like happens once a year. And none of us knew could be part of it or we couldn't be part of it. I just registered for it and I became part of it. And most of my interviews, they asked these questions about, oh, why did you Mission of Mercy? So, trust yourself. Trust your instinct. Trust your gut feeling. Take those decisions. Maybe you need just one decision to turn right in your favor, and you will get to where you are. And good luck for your next cycle.
Good, good. Thank you for sharing this. Yes, totally agree. Keep doing something. Even if it's not productive, like, if you feel it's not productive at some point, it might be. So, that's some golden words. And I hope this video helps you. And if you have any other questions, you can reach out to me. My contacts are going to be in the description. And hopefully, we'll see you guys in a more meaningful video. Thank you, Sean. Thank you, Doctor.