ALERT! Don’t Start Hydroponic Farming Without Watching This Video | Vimal Koul | AT 13

It's the job of an entrepreneur to create an economic advantage. As soon as the thought comes to me, I want to do hydroponics, and you go to see the site. Don't look at anything else. First, take a water sample there, test it, and if you are doing hydroponics, your water must be the best. Ultimately, we need to create a business module. We have to sell too. So, if it's not raining for four to six months of the year, I can do it in a net house. I'm not saying you should throw money away. You need to consider the appropriateness and market demand, not just what you like. Yes, this is what they say in startups. Most startups fail because they start working on ideas that they think will make them money. Do you know your target market? If your target market is wholesale, then coriander and mint are of no use. Volumes matter. Hello friends and farmers, and welcome to another episode on Agri Talk. Our episode today is on a topic that has become a hot topic not only in agriculture but in all industries today, which is hydroponics. Our guest today is Mr. Vimal Call, who has over 40 years of experience in agriculture and more specifically in hydroponics. In today's episode, we have talked in great depth about hydroponics, what are the methods of hydroponics, who should get into hydroponics and who should not, what are the parameters in greenhouse climate management. We have put a lot of emphasis on growing skills and horticulture skills in this episode. So, if you are an aspiring agri-entrepreneur or want to do agriculture, either in soil or with hydroponics, you will get so many valuable inputs in this episode that will greatly help you in your agriculture journey. I want you to watch this episode not just for entertainment but as a purely educational episode. That is the objective of all our episodes. So, if you are a serious grower or want to be one in the future, watch this episode with a notebook and pen. Make points, share them with your fellow farmers and friends, and start a chain of knowledge sharing among yourselves. Right, when you learn and teach others, your learning curve will be much faster. Watch this episode carefully and definitely watch it till the end. If you want to watch it in parts, watch it in parts. I promise you, if you can carefully apply the summary of this episode in your growing career, then your chances of success will increase very rapidly. So, without revealing too much, presenting to you Mr. Vimal Call on Agri [Music] Talk. Welcome to Agri Talk, Mr. Vimal Call. How are you, sir? Thank you for being here. I am really good. Good to be here. Thanks so much for inviting me to your podcast, which we have started very recently, and I wish you from the bottom of my heart. I wish you all the very best for this sort of a new initiative that you, Agri Plans, have started. Thank you, sir. I think people like you, who have so much experience, if you come on this podcast, the learnings people can take from you, that is the main objective we are trying to serve. Sir, I think there will be very few people in the industry who have 40 years of experience. It's been 40 years for you. How has your journey been so far? See, the journey has been excellent. It's been a very good journey, and possibly staying in the same field for 40 years is enough proof. It's proof that I have enjoyed the journey a lot. And telling you frankly, if the concept of reincarnation is true, and if I am asked in my next life what I want to do, I will say very boldly, the same thing that I have done in this life, agriculture. I mean, many people today probably don't see agriculture as a lucrative career or a path where they can build a career. How was it in your time? There were such notions even then, definitely. But I strongly believe that no activity, no business activity, is economically unviable. It's the job of an entrepreneur to create an economic advantage. And that is what I have always tried to do, and possibly that is the one thing that has kept me in this activity for 40 years. So, as of today, you are known to everyone as a hydroponics expert. If there's anything, Vimal Call sir will always be there. I have seen many of your lectures at your academy, and I think your biggest strength is your learning ability. You have learned so much in 40 years. That is the only reason you are able to teach so much to people today. How did you learn so much? See, the best thing I can tell you about this is that I had no background in agriculture, no education related to agriculture. Very hard to believe. So, my bucket was all empty. It was very easy for me to fill it with new things. When I started this work, as usual, I started taking tips from people who were already in this field. So, gradually, I observed one thing: people give tips, but why should we do it? Someone would tell me to do this and that on my farm, and I would always have this notion in my mind: why? And I wouldn't get an answer from anyone for that "why." It was that thing, why should I do it? Possibly, I thought the way to learn this is to learn it myself. So, I worked very hard, and I am still doing it because I feel that agriculture is an activity where you get to do and learn something new every day. From my experience, I would like to say that any agriculturist who takes any action on his farm today, any action A, B, C, he should always think: tomorrow, if he has to do the same action, could there be a better way to do that action? So, learning is a continuous process. When I sleep in the evening, I always sleep thinking that tomorrow morning I have to do something new, read something new, think something new. And that is what has kept me in the activity. I think this is a very big learning. Nowadays, people have become so impatient that they want results today, even after 35-40 years in the industry, you still have that anticipation of what you will learn the next day, how to approach it the next day. Right? So, that is a very important quality in my opinion. See, see, whenever you do any work, you need to understand the basics first. You cannot expect good results by being fundamentally incorrect. And the fundamental of this business, agriculture, is that it is a science that changes every day with climate changes. It keeps changing. That is one. Second thing is that conditions change from one place to another. Water conditions change, soil conditions change, climate changes. So, if all these conditions change so rapidly, then you have to greatly improve your learning process accordingly with those changes. Only then can you do it. Otherwise, patience is the key. You planted a seed in the ground or somewhere else, and if it's supposed to germinate in four days, you say it should happen in one day. That will not happen. Patience is the key. There are no shortcuts to success in agriculture. Absolutely no shortcuts in life. That is my personal belief. Because, I mean, in agriculture, I think the new notion people have is that with hydroponics and new technologies, they will get success quickly, and they won't have to go through the struggle, hard work, toil, and patience that farmers have. Is that true about hydroponics? Not really. Not really. See, the plant doesn't know where it is growing. Is it growing hydroponically, in soil, or with some other technology? The plant has its own system of growing. It has a cropping cycle. And if you want to grow that plant, if you want to grow a healthy plant, then you should understand its cycle, and there can be no shortcuts in that cycle. If it takes four months, it will take four months. But why hydroponics? What is happening with hydroponics? I, I, I personally feel that the children of our farmers are possibly not farming because they feel that our fathers and grandfathers are not ready. They are not ready to farm the way their ancestors did. Hydroponics and any sort of technology that you bring into agriculture makes things look more attractive, purposeful, and then the person doing it feels it's a bit of a white-collar job. I am not an ordinary farmer. I am different. So, maybe hydroponics, or for that matter, any technology brought into agriculture, makes agriculture a bit more attractive, and your results can be better. Basically, with hydroponics, as you said, people feel they are doing something new because the notion is always there that I don't want to be a traditional farmer because the image of a farmer in our country has been a bit shaky since day one. People don't respect it. They think it's a job of poverty. This topic comes up in almost every podcast. So, with technology and hydroponics, you are saying that people are associating better with it. See, they are doing the same thing that our farmers did. We are doing the same work, but the way of working has perhaps changed, which keeps your mind a bit positive, and you feel you are doing something different. Basically, fundamentally, you are doing the same work that your farmer was doing, but your way of working is different, which makes it a bit attractive. Right. So, sir, I think you would be the best person to answer this question. I saw one of your lectures where you explained the actual meaning of hydroponics, but for the purpose of our audience, for our fellow farmers watching, can you explain in simple, easy language, what exactly is hydroponics? It's beyond soilless cultivation, I think. Its meaning. See, the normal definition we get in a dictionary is that hydro means water, and ponics means working. So, working with water is hydroponics. But I personally think that is an incomplete definition. In hydroponics, first, you should know everything. Just like you grow a plant in soil, the technology, the actions, the inputs you provide there, you should know all of them. You should have a lot of expertise in that. Plus, how to grow a plant in water, how to work with water, how to test water, what should we look for? Because the plant's root zone, in hydroponics, ultimately stays in water. So, you should also have knowledge of water. So, hydroponics, to me, is knowing plant physiology, general plant physiology, plus how to handle water. That is something additional that you should know. I think in hydroponics, the role of water becomes even more important compared to regular farming. Much more. Much more. Because every input, every input you give to the plant, you give it through water. And normally, there's a notion that in our country, even if you farm in soil, you give water, wet the soil, and we think the plant has taken water, we have irrigated. It is not true. It is not true. The plant takes water through a specific mechanism. Understanding that mechanism is very important. And for that, how good your water quality should be, understanding that is doubly important. Only then can you grow a plant hydroponically. The role of water is very crucial. It is, it is. If your water is bad, then you shouldn't even think about hydroponics. Right. As you were telling me earlier, just before we started, big projects fail because they haven't done a simple water test. They haven't done a water test. Stories like this are found across the country. I have seen farms of 30-30, 40-40 acres that have failed because a water test was not done. Why am I telling you this? See, when you want to do any project, you have to be fundamentally correct. Absolutely. And if you are doing hydroponics, then your water must be the best. If it's not, then should you also see if there is any scope to improve it, to fix it? One of two things. Either the basic source, which is ours, should be very good. If not, then the second thing that arises is the scope of whether I can improve that water with any technology, say by using a reverse osmosis process or some other process. If neither of these is possible, then doing hydroponics in that place means you shouldn't even think about it. Absolutely not at all. There is a mechanism involved. Why will a plant take water? When will it take it? How will it take it? A mechanism is involved. If I offer you a glass of salt water or seawater to drink, everyone will think I have offered you a glass of water because the glass is full of water. But you won't be able to drink it. It doesn't suit your taste, it doesn't suit your requirement for water. So, that water will remain there. Same is with plants. If it doesn't suit them, if it doesn't suit them, then no matter how much water you give, the plant won't take water. And in hydroponics, when everything, when you give everything to the plant through water, then the quality of water is of prime importance. Very important. Like, if the medium itself is not right, through which the plant needs nutrition, then how will success happen? See, in soil, what happens is that when farming is done in soil, the soil has its own buffering capacity. Small mistakes you make, the soil forgives them, it adjusts. But in hydroponics, the media you use has no buffering capacity. Whatever you give is what is available to the plant. If it's perfect, the plant will take it. If it's not perfect, the plant won't take it. A general notion has become that give nutrition to the plant. First, this notion is that put the seed, give water, give fertilizer, and the plant will grow. It doesn't happen like that. It never happens like that. The plant takes water, fertilizer, or anything else, whatever its inputs are, in a specific system. And when you do it hydroponically, you have to ensure that whatever you are giving is within the system. If it's not in the system, the plant won't take it, no matter how much you give. Like you said, if you farm in soil, because there is scope for making mistakes in soil, a little bit. That doesn't mean we should make mistakes in soil, but there is a little scope because soil has some buffering capacity. Your pH, EC, to some extent, it can adjust. It can adjust. But where soil is absent, whatever you are giving. See, when we talk about hydroponics, whether you do NFT, Nutrient Film Technique, or soilless farming, whatever media we use, its job is, the first thing is to give encouragement to the plant so that the plant stands. That is one of its jobs. The second job is to act as a sort of a store. Things will go to the plant from there. Whatever you put in that store, it will give that forward. It won't bring any change to it. Absolutely no change. So, if you give proper water with proper nutrition, then only the plant will take it. And if that water is not right, your nutrient formulation is not right, then the plant won't take it. Simple. Don't ever think that by running it in a channel or putting it in the root zone, we have given the plant the nutrition or water it needs. I think there will be many learnings in this podcast, but at the very beginning, the most important point you made is that water is extremely crucial in hydroponics. And if you want to do hydroponic farming, definitely get your water tested. The moment the thought comes, I want to do hydroponics, and you go to see the site, don't look at anything else. First, take a water sample there, test it. And there are some parameters of water that you must test, which are very tough to adjust. Very tough. One parameter is the electrical conductivity, EC of the water. That means the amount of salts already present in it. Okay. There are some good salts and some bad salts. For example, sodium salt, like sodium chloride. If it is very high, say beyond 35 ppm or beyond 50 ppm, then don't touch that water. Don't think about hydroponics there. Can it be treated, sir? It can be treated by RO. But there is also a scope for installing RO. There is a particular limit. See, in RO, you waste a lot of water because when you remove salts, those salts remain in the water. You remove that water along with the salts. When you pass it through a membrane, you retain the salts. So, some part of that water is wasted because the salt content increases. Now, if that salt is very high, and the water you filtered out has a low salt content, your basic salt content will depend on how much you waste. If the salt content is not very high, then your water wastage will be less. If the salt content is already very high, then your wastage will be... I remember a project. It was not ours. It was 39 acres, almost net houses, in the Kutch area of Gujarat. So, I was invited by the gentleman. And when I reached there, he started, it was a very good setup. He had very good basic infrastructure. So, I was supposed to stay there. I had to stay for two-three hours. So, I told him, no, he was telling me about his farm. I said, no, I don't have that much time. You

Follow my sequence, and they said, "Yes, you tell us what to do." The first thing I asked was, "Can you give me a sample of your water?" So, normally, whenever I go to any farm, I carry a kit for water testing with me. So I opened that kit and tested its water. It was EC water, meaning at EC water, you just cannot think of dreaming of growing anything. So I told him, "Nothing will grow here." He got a little annoyed. He was annoyed that, "How are you saying this?" I said, "Sir, it won't grow." There was a bit of an argument too. I explained to him. He was a doctor, basically. He must have felt bad. "How can someone tell me it won't grow?" He felt bad, but I told him, "Please understand basic science, it won't grow." The visit ended on not a very good note, and I left from there. I said, "I cannot do this." He said, "I will install an RO, I will do this." Now, with an RO, if your water quality is like this, then 99% of your water will be wasted. So where will you dispose of it? That is also there. That is also a very big issue. If you put it back into the soil, then you are creating, I mean, havoc with the soil. You are completely destroying the soil. And it's a 40-acre farm. If 99% of your water gets wasted, then how much more water will you use? It won't be feasible. It's not feasible. That's why I say, whenever you, I would say this for all those people, all our youngsters who want to get into this activity, even if you have to set up a greenhouse, forget about hydroponics. If you just have to set up a simple greenhouse and work with the soil, the first thing you must do is, the first thing you should do is testing before selecting the site. Water test. That is very, very important. Is the water okay? Get it checked by an expert. Is the water okay? Go ahead. If the water is not okay, don't do it. And especially in water, you must check its EC. Check its pH. pH should not be an issue. pH is not such a big issue because we can adjust pH very economically. It can be adjusted. But if the sodium content is very high, chloride content is very high, fluoride content is very high, then it is difficult to remove them. It is difficult. It also becomes expensive. You will have to install an RO. So if you are installing an RO, then your investment is also high. Then it will also depend on how big the farm is. Can you afford so much water for such a big farm or not? It is always better. Always better. Before you finalize the site, check the water. Get an expert opinion that there is scope for doing it here. If a really good, experienced expert tells you no, then don't follow it. Testing is crucial. Everyone should start with testing. You said it's important to test EC, it's important to test pH. Are there any other parameters that people should pay attention to? You should also get your nitrate content, iron content, boron content checked. And during that checking, when you look, another mistake that many of our agri-people make is that when the lab people do the testing, they think it's for human consumption. So they check all those parameters. So you have to tell them that this is for agricultural purposes. And whenever you have any salt identification, if nitrogen is in your water, if it is available in nitrate form, then it is a good thing for your plant. It is good. But if it is available in some other form that is not acceptable to the plant, then it becomes a problem. We have to remove it. Then it's a problem. So, which form, which salts are in it, and in what form are they available? We should also find this out during testing. So, all these details come out in the testing. Yes, yes, yes. Very easily. Very easily. You just have to tell them that this is for agricultural purposes. Please check these parameters for me and also tell me in what form the salts are. Suppose you have some water, and the nitrate form of nitrogen is there, say 10 ppm. Let's assume it's in your water. And tomorrow, when you do hydroponics, if you need to give 200 ppm nitrogen to the plant, then 10 ppm is already in your water. So you only add 190 ppm. Okay. There, you can save your fertilizer cost. The cost will be saved. Otherwise, you are over-fertilizing, aren't you? You add one spoon of sugar to a cup of tea. It tastes just right. If one spoon is already added and you add another spoon on top, you won't be able to drink the tea. You won't be able to drink it. It's exactly the same. You might drink it, but you'll get diabetes. You'll get diabetes. And perhaps you won't be able to drink it at all because you are not used to it. You are not used to it. So, similarly, if any beneficial salt is available in your water, consider it when you prepare your recipe. And if that salt is not there, and it's very difficult to remove it, do you think, sir, that hydroponics is the future? Because many studies are coming out about topsoil degradation, that by almost 2050, 90% of the soil will be degraded. Hydroponics is now coming into the limelight. It has become a very hot trending topic. Go anywhere on social media, and everyone is saying, "I want to start my hydroponic farm. I want to do soilless farming." But all these people are those who have never farmed before. I have two questions for you. First, will hydroponics replace soil-based agriculture in the next 15, 20, 25 years? And second, for all these new youngsters who are coming in, who have never farmed, should they start directly with soilless farming, or should they first learn farming, as you said, gain some experience in soil, and then go for soilless cultivation? For newcomers who have absolutely no agricultural experience, my suggestion is that they should start with soil. They should start with soil. And when you ask if hydroponics will replace it, I don't think it will replace it. But we need to integrate it. Suppose you are doing a large project where there is scope for working with soil, then do that too. Work with soil, do some hydroponics, do soilless, do NFT. Do soilless. But see, along with farming, doing business in farming, we also need to learn that. That is very important. These are two different things. Normally, we get confused between farming and doing business in farming. These are two different things. If you want to do business in farming, then I would suggest that you should not do hydroponics exclusively. Why shouldn't you do it? Because the first thing is that not everything can be grown hydroponically. I don't mean you can't grow it. Ultimately, we need to create a business module. We need to sell it too. We need to sell it, right? Create a business module. So, can I create a successful business module by growing everything hydroponically? Perhaps not. Perhaps not. So, part of it in hydroponics, part of it in NFT, where we run nutrient solutions in channels. Part of it there. Part of it in soilless. Soilless. And if possible, part of it in soil. Let's see what happens. What happens? When you grow things in NFT, your capex is very high. So you should grow crops in it whose crop cycles are short. So that your output from one setup is very high. Only then will a successful business module be created. It's something like, if you grow tomatoes in NFT, I am not with the idea. I am not with the idea. Your cropping cycle is 9-10 months. For that, you will set up NFT and then grow tomatoes? Or capsicum? It doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense. For that, soilless is the best option. But if you want to do leafy greens, which complete a cycle in 40-45 days, and if you run your NFT system very efficiently, then you can get 10 cycles of production from it. If you can get 10 cycles of production, then it will become, I mean, an economic module. It will become an economic module. If you get one cycle of any such plant, one or two cycles, then perhaps it won't become an economic module because, as you said, the initial money the farmer is putting in, whoever is putting it in, the capital expenditure is quite high. Yes. And they also need to calculate the break-even period. See, our capex, our, I tell you, farming and business in farming. Doing business in farming, even today, if we go into Indian markets, the hydroponic produce, the greenhouse produce, it hasn't created its own identity. It hasn't. When you have to compete in the market, you have to compete with a common farmer whose cost of production is much lower than yours. Much lower. So, in order to compete with that, we should not blindly install infrastructure and blindly select crops. Blind crop selection. If we do it blindly, then we are bound to, I mean, create problems for ourselves. We will create problems for ourselves. Where you feel that, suppose a youngster comes to me and tells me, "I want to do hydroponics. I have a three-acre farm. I want to do it." Then I would probably tell him to do a small segment of it, a thousand square meters, in NFT. And the rest, if the soil is not workable, then I will suggest doing it in coco peat or using some other medium. That will make better sense. A good economic module will be created. Go for integrated farming. Do a little bit of this, a little bit of that. Don't depend on just one thing. It is not only that you depend on one thing. Certain specific crops are meant for each setup. Grow those crops in that same setup. Don't do it like this: I saw people doing saffron cultivation in containers, someone is doing it indoors. This looks good visually and by posting photos, but these are not economically very viable things. Not viable things. I have seen many indoor farms set up in India, but I have never seen them expand. That someone had a thousand square meters indoors and the next year they expanded to five thousand square meters. I have never seen that happening. New, new, new people are coming for indoor farms, but I haven't seen people who have been doing it for the last 10 years and have expanded. So, it's always better. Along with crop selection, in which setup to grow it is also very important. Only then can you create an economic model. Otherwise, sir, a question has come to me. You said, suppose I have one acre of land, and I found the soil there is bad. I won't farm in the soil. So you told me to do NFT in 1000 square feet, grow bags in 1000, or troughs in 2000, whatever it is. These different crops that will grow, their climatic conditions, their requirements, will probably be different, right? So, inside a polyhouse, how are we creating? I always suggest that you should grow only one crop in a polyhouse. You should not mix crops because each crop has its own requirement, its own requirement. If we do leafy greens and want to do 7-10 items in it, then making 10 types of greenhouses for 10 crops is also not possible. Not possible. So, what you should do in such a case is, if you select 7-10 crops, then select crops that have similar basic requirements. And select crops where there is no fruiting. See, when the vegetative growth of the plant is to happen, then the four or five things they require are more or less common with every plant. So, if you select and do 7-10 leafy greens, and since they are not going to fruit, we need the leaves, then the inputs you have to give them don't differ much. But if you plant tomatoes, capsicum in the same greenhouse, where they have to come to fruition, then creating such an environment might not be possible. Might not be possible to create an environment that suits both leafy greens and tomatoes. Perhaps you won't be able to do that. Because many people come and say, "I have one acre of land. I want to do NFT on half an acre, and grow bags or troughs on the other half acre." Suppose I am a beginner like this, and I come to you and say, "Sir, I have one acre of land. What would be the step-by-step approach for me? Can I do this?" What would be the right approach? The right approach should be that you set aside 500 square meters for a greenhouse. Do leafy greens in it. Do hydroponics in it. And if you have the remaining 4500 square meters, set that aside separately. Possibly, if you want to do two crops, then in that remaining 3500 square meters, also set up two greenhouses. Plant one crop in one, and the other crop in the other. So you are saying, under a single structure, never? But then the cost will be additional for me, won't it? It will be additional cost. It will be additional cost. But see, either don't do it. I always say, people say something is better than nothing. But I always say, nothing is better than nonsense. We should not. We should not. Nothing is better than nothing. Or nothing is better. Don't do it then. See, you cannot compel the plant. You cannot compel the plant that I have created an atmosphere, so it should grow in it. No. An agri-entrepreneur, and then according to that, you have to provide its input. So, commonly, I say, to grow a healthy plant, you need to have good water, good food, and a good environment. These three things are needed. When you grow a plant outside, other than in a greenhouse or indoors, then good food, you can give it. A grower will give it. Good water, a grower will also give it. Good environment, nature gives it. Correct. Which, when we cultivate outside, we don't think much about it because nature provides it. Now, when you bring the same plant into your greenhouse, its requirement is the same. Good water, you will give. Good food, you will give. Good environment, you will also have to give. We have to. When you have cut it off from nature and brought it inside, it doesn't mean it no longer needs nature. Correct. But there, nature is giving the environment. Here, you have to provide the environment. And this is a very, very big weak link in our greenhouse industry, where people don't think about a proper environment when they grow something inside a greenhouse. When they install a greenhouse, people start thinking, "Now it will happen." But they don't understand that they still have to provide to the plant. Unfortunately, it's a magical box. You install it, sow seeds, add fertilizer, add water, and it will happen. It will happen anytime, somehow. Right? That is not correct. Not at all. A greenhouse is a tool. Yes. It's a tool. It's a good tool. See, it's being used worldwide. So, there must be something to it, right? How can we say that? I have also seen in India that, "Oh, what is this technology?" That is not true. It's not magic. It's happening in the world. Now, it's a tool. The efficiency of the tool depends on the person who is handling it, operating it. So, normally, what we think is that we have installed automation, we have created a system. Now, it's the plant's compulsion to grow in this system. That's not possible. When it comes to operating the tool, when you have to operate the greenhouse, you must understand what a plant's requirement is. Then, create the setup accordingly. And if the setup is suitable for it, it will grow. If the setup is not suitable for it, then unfortunately, it will not grow. As you have also said in many places, just repeating what you are saying, that agriculture and hydroponics, 70% horticultural skills, at least. That is, the skill of growing is very important. That, the green fingers, having an eye. See, I will tell you, I am not saying this because I have this art or anything like that. It comes. It comes naturally. When you do the same work for 40 years, some things will come to you. Suppose I enter a greenhouse with 10,000 cucumber plants, say 10. And if one plant is not performing well, my eye will go to that plant first. It happens. It happens because when you go inside, you are looking for uniformity. You are looking for uniformity. It's not that I didn't see that plant. The uniformity that should be visible inside, if I see a drop at that point, then obviously there is some problem with the plant at that point. It comes with experience. It comes with experience. But I always say, if it took me 40 years to learn this, then our youngsters should not take 40 years. Good training. Good training modules. And a very practical approach. Understanding planting, plant science. And when I talk about plant science, there is no need to do an MSc or PhD. Our 12th standard NCERT biology books have very good practical scientific knowledge. It is given. Read it, and you will learn from it. The basics will be photosynthesis, respiration, transpiration. I will give you an example again. About 15-20 years ago, when I used to read all these things, I couldn't understand them. Then I would call my son. He was in Pune at that time. So I would call him and ask him to explain this and that. Now, he would reply, "Father has asked, so let me reply." But sometimes I could make out that he would also get a little irritated when I called at odd times. So one day, with great courage, he told me, "Dad, why don't you buy a 12th standard science book?" So, it stuck in my mind. I said, "Man, he's right." And trust me, I immediately went to the bookstore and bought a 12th standard NCERT book. And even today, if you come to my house, I must be having more than 500 books. The first one is it.

It starts with the 12th standard science book. Everyone is taught in school, but at that time, our intention for studying is different. We need to pass exams, this and that. If you study three things very carefully, that is, plant photosynthesis, plant respiration, and plant transpiration, if you study these three subjects well, PRT, yes, study them well and understand them practically, understand them practically, you can handle this tool. I am calling the greenhouse a tool, you can handle it very well because you have to ensure these three processes, ensure that these three processes are taking place in my greenhouse. Sir, can you explain? I want to dive a little deeper into each pointer. See, how does a plant work? How does a plant work? In a simple way, I repeatedly say in my own way that I might be scientifically a bit incorrect, might be incorrect, but it is the best way to understand things, according to my experience. See, any plant, any plant, if we have it here, any plant, how does it work? A plant absorbs water from roots. It takes water from the roots, and that water goes throughout the plant, right? This is the first process. Then it absorbs heat from the light that comes. The leaves absorb that heat. With that heat, the water inside the plant, in the leaves, it warms up, it gets warm. As it gets warm, it converts into water vapor. Water vapor, and a pressure of water vapor is generated inside. As that pressure goes beyond a point, this water vapor comes out of the leaves, opening the stomata, and it comes out of the leaves and goes into the atmosphere. As soon as it goes into the atmosphere, the water level inside the plant decreases, it reduces. So, as it reduces, it takes more water from below. This process will continue, this process. And if you do greenhouse cultivation, you have to ensure that this process is continuously happening in my greenhouse. That is why I say that whenever we recommend any automation for a greenhouse, it should not be very static. I have seen many greenhouses where people have automated humidity at 40 and temperature at 30. I am specifically talking about the fan and pad system. Plants can never survive constantly at a defined humidity and a defined temperature. It needs to change. It needs to change continuously in order to ensure that transpiration is happening, my transpiration. Ensure this. See, when it comes to science, when we talk about science, there is a law, the law of conservation of energy. We have a law. It says that energy cannot be destroyed or created. And after conversion, the quantity of energy remains the same. Absolutely. Now, when you operate a greenhouse, you also use energy. First, water is energy, right? Light is energy, heat is energy. You have to effectively convert all these three energies for the plant. For the plant, when this heat comes, you have to convert it. Where will the first conversion take place? That because of this heat, the water in the leaves of your plant gets converted to water vapor, gets converted to. So, the first conversion is done. Photosynthesis will happen from light. The second conversion is that water will come up from below. And up, see, you must remember, whatever water the plant takes, it uses only 10% of it. 90% it transpires. So, ensuring transpiration is of acute importance. But this cannot be ensured unless and until all factors inside the greenhouse are dependent on each other. They should be parallel. All your factors should be parallel. If there is even one weak link in this, then all your other parameters will automatically become inefficient. Understood. It has to be a quantity of. See, now there is a lot of sunlight coming, a lot of heat is coming inside, the leaves are also converting water, but there is no irrigation. No irrigation. Now, here, the weak link becomes irrigation. Now, since there is no irrigation and heat is coming from above, what will happen now? The plant, the leaves, will tell the roots, "Give us water." They will ask for water from the roots, and the roots do not have water. So, the roots will tell them, "We don't have water." So, the process will stop. No matter how much light comes, no matter how much, the plant will not work. So, you have to ensure that all these things are happening at the most efficient level inside the greenhouse, simultaneously. If there is any weak link in this, that weak link will tell you whether to extract 40 tons of cucumber from the greenhouse or 50 tons. Those efficient parameters will never decide the efficiency of your greenhouse or your yield. The most inefficient parameters will decide your yield. If your labor is inefficient, your yields will drop. If your environment is inefficient, your yields will drop. It will not be decided by how good your water is or how good your nutrition is, but if the quality of water is not good, it becomes a weak link. Understood. So, whatever weak links there are, an entrepreneur should always try not to leave any weak links, not to leave any, and all these parameters should work simultaneously and very efficiently. If that happens, if all those parameters are efficient for you, you are bound to get very good results. I think, sir, this is very, very important knowledge. But still, people also need to understand that learning this in a podcast, listening to it, is still theoretical. Until, as you say, you don't get your hands dirty in the soil, it is very difficult to learn all these things. Those growers I talk to, they say that plants talk to you, plants interact with you. Until you are with the plants, it is very difficult to observe all these things. Is that right? That is right. I, I also believe that plants talk. But I, I would like to add something. The plant will definitely talk to you, it will definitely talk. But if you understand its language. If you don't understand its language, then no matter how much it talks to you, you won't understand. Because there is no physical exchange of words like that. Correct. Now, by looking at the plant, you should have the skill to understand what it is saying, whether I am understanding its language or not. How will you learn all these things? For that, it is very important to first understand the basic things. Understand the basic things. Then, this is, this is actually. Then, how will you manipulate those basic things, how will you take them to an efficient level? That will come with experience. But if you violate the basics yourself, you sit in front of the plant, and you say, "It will talk to me," but you don't know what a disease is, what disease can affect it, whether this is a disease, a deficiency, an insect, a virus, what it is. Understanding these basic things is very important. Then you can talk to the plant. Otherwise, you will sit there, it will sit in front, nothing. Understanding the plant's language is very important. Understanding the plant's language is very important. Until you do that, perhaps you and to understand that language, you will need to understand basic science. Basic science. And that science, I am saying again, there is no need to do a PhD. With due respect to all those doctorates, I am not saying that PhD holders are not there. But now, to my labor, when we go to any project on our farm, or there is labor there, I cannot first tell them to come after doing BSc or MSc, and then I will teach you. We have to create a module that is scientifically correct, that is scientifically right, and explain it to our labor, to our supervisors, so that they can understand, and they do understand, it's not that they don't. You must have the art of how lovingly, how comfortably, how broken down you put those things into their minds. Absolutely. Just for example, perhaps many people still don't know what transpiration is. The process you explained. Perhaps they have seen it, but now when they go and look at their plants, then perhaps they will start understanding what the process actually is. See, you have brought up a very good point about transpiration. This happened exactly on a farm. I had to explain transpiration to the laborers. Now, explaining transpiration to them, not even 10th, not even 10th, who might not have even seen the door of a school. Such laborers we have. So, what we did was, there was a guava tree outside, and one of its branches, the end of it, where the leaves were, we put it in a polythene bag and sealed that polythene bag. We closed it. All those leaves came into that polythene bag. It was a transparent polythene, transparent polythene. And I told the laborers nothing. I didn't tell them why I was doing it. I did it in front of them, but I didn't tell them why I was doing it. And I just told them, "You will not tamper with this. Nobody should touch it. In between, when you walk around, look at it." So, tomorrow, we will all stand here in the morning and see what happens in it. So, they were looking at it while walking around, and the next morning, I called everyone, gathered them there. So, water had accumulated in it due to transpiration. There was water accumulated. So, the first thing I told them was, "Who put water in it? Who put water in this bag?" So, "Sir, you were very angry. I asked, who put water? Who has done it?" "We didn't do it." No one was ready to admit it. "Then tell me, where did the water come from?" "If you didn't put it, I also put the bag on yesterday and left, right? I didn't put it. Then where did this water come from?" Then they started coming out with their own understanding, their own theory. Where did it come from? And trust me, trust me, all of them were correct. Everyone said, "The leaves gave water." They understood the concept. Absolutely understood. And then I told them, "Where did the leaves get it from? Is there a river flowing inside the leaves?" So, they said, "No, they take water from the roots, sir. The water we give." Wow. And, and then a notion was created, a narrative was set there, that when those leaves give water, they become cool. Evaporation happens. Then, the normal plants, we made them touch. The back of it, the back. Because this portion of ours is not very sensitive. This portion. I told them, "Touch the leaves and tell me what you feel." "It feels cool. It feels cool." So, cool means, obviously, that transpiration is happening. Evaporation is happening. Because of cooling, the leaves are cool. So, then we made a routine for the labor, and that routine is still continuing. Whenever the labor goes inside the greenhouse, they walk backwards, touching the plants, and where they don't feel the cooling effect, they will stop and see why it's not happening. And there is always a possibility that there is some disease on that leaf or some insect, and it is not transpiring, due to which its temperature has risen, and that feeling is like you have a fever. It's something like that. So, in this way, you have to create modules that are scientifically correct, but the way you tell them can be different. Because at the end of the day, you have to explain it. You have to explain it to them, and you have to explain it in such a way that it sinks into their minds. Very simple but scientifically correct modules should be derived, and we should work with those training modules. I think now, those who are listening to this podcast will still not say what transpiration is. Simple logic: check with your hand. If the plant doesn't have that cooling effect, if it's hot, something is wrong with that particular plant. And if you want to improvise further, use an infrared thermometer. In Covid, every person's house had that thermometer. Just like you check your forehead with a laser, you check the leaf's temperature. If it is below the atmospheric temperature, then it is an unclear indication. It is transpiring. Understood. And the next step is that as much as it is transpiring, as much as its temperature is down, we also have to keep it within a range. It's not that transpiration and cooling imbalance should be created. If the transpiration rate is very high, is it getting enough water from below or not? We have to match the two. That is why I always say that the temperature difference between your leaf and the atmosphere should be around two to six degrees. Two. When your plants are small, the rate of transpiration should be less, under control. And when the plants are big, when they are supposed to produce, the rate of transpiration should be higher. So, if you can maintain it in a range of two to six degrees, six. When it is in the generative stage to when it is in the vegetative, small stage. Maintain it in the range of two to six. And to maintain that range, you have to control the humidity in the greenhouse. Again, as you said, all factors become interlinked, right? In the greenhouse, again, the person who has a dry bulb, wet bulb thermometer, which costs up to 500-700 thousand, the person who is not using it, take it from me, they don't know how to operate a greenhouse. Sir, can you explain to the audience what a dry bulb, wet bulb thermometer is and what it does in a greenhouse? Perhaps if they are not doing it, they will start after hearing you. The dry bulb, wet bulb thermometer is a device with two thermometers on it. There is a wooden plank, and on it, two thermometers are attached. Like twins, you know, like twin children. The difference is that the bulb of one thermometer, the bottom part where the mercury is, is immersed in water, or there is a cloth over it, and that cloth is immersed in water. So, continuously, there is water on that bulb. Okay, right. And the other one has nothing on it. Now, if you check the temperature of both, you will always see the dry bulb temperature at 30 degrees, then the wet bulb will be 4-5 degrees lower. Lower. Lower. Why is this happening? Even though they are identical and placed in the same spot? This is happening because there is water on it, water is flowing, and air flows over water. Air flows inside the greenhouse, or even if you keep it outside, you will see a temperature difference. Air flows over it. As air flows, the water evaporates. And evaporation causes cooling. Because of that, the temperature of the wet bulb comes down. And this is a process in which you are not using any type of energy. You are not running any fan pads, you are not running any motor, you are not running anything. This is happening through a natural process. Wind is blowing, air is blowing. Water comes to the bulb due to capillary action because there is a cloth, a sleeve of cloth, on it, so it remains wet. Air naturally comes in, so it evaporates it, and its temperature goes down. Now, for a greenhouse grower, it is important to know that if the temperature of his dry bulb is, say, 30 degrees, and the wet bulb is 26 degrees, then there will be a 4-degree difference. Correct. This is a standard that you can bring down the temperature inside your greenhouse by this much without using any energy. Okay. Whereas normally, what is happening? We say that the outside temperature is 40 degrees and inside it has become 45 degrees. That means you are not handling it properly. You are not handling the greenhouse properly. If your greenhouse temperature is good for vegetative growth, if vegetative growth is happening okay, your greenhouse temperature inside should be lower compared to outside. Outside. And the difference between the dry bulb and wet bulb will be. Yes, that is the maximum range. Yes. Now, that is a very efficient system. If you are seeing a 4-degree difference in it, then when you handle the greenhouse, perhaps you won't be able to create a 4-degree difference, but you can create 3 degrees. Simple logic. Suppose you have 10,000 cucumber plants in your greenhouse. Correct. Each plant has 10 leaves. Normal thing. Now, all these 10 leaves are transpiring properly. What will happen to the leaf temperatures? Cool. It will be lower. Now, 10,000 plants have 10 leaves each, so that's 1 lakh leaves inside. 1 lakh leaves. Now, when 1 lakh leaves are simultaneously lowering their temperature, what will happen to the atmospheric temperature? It should reduce. It will reduce. It will reduce. So, always, if a green, wet bulb, dry bulb thermometer is installed in your setup, and it is showing a difference, it means that there is a scope to create that much temperature difference inside your greenhouse. Then, how efficiently you use venting, humidifiers, or control humidity, it will depend on that. But as much temperature difference it has given, that much temperature difference you can create inside without using energy. Understood. Without that is more important. By the process of nature. Yes. Yes. I have never heard it explained so simply. Evaporation causes cooling. It's very simple. Evaporation causes cooling. And when you allow 1 lakh leaves to do it together, you create an environment inside where they are doing it, they are continuously transpiring, your greenhouse temperature will be lower. It has to be. A dry bulb, you are saying, must be in the greenhouse. Must be. Just like you mentioned the other one, the IR meter. The IR meter is an improved version. If you want to maintain and see leaf temperatures, if you ask me simply, then I will say the IR meter is a good light meter, not a lux meter. Meter. Now, I will tell you about light separately. What is in Vimal sir's toolkit? There is a lot in my toolkit. First thing is, when I take any reading, I take it with two instruments. If I have to check EC, then I will use two different instruments just to make sure that the EC reading I am taking is not an error. So, I have EC meters, pH meters, and for light, I have a PAR meter. That is, Photosynthetically Active Radiation, which measures the actual light that the plant accepts. The light we normally see, the plant does not accept it. PAR, Photosynthetically Active Radiation. See, a typical thing is that in the spectrum of light, 400.

The spectrum available from 700 nanometers is visible to humans and plants, from 400 to 700. However, human sensitivity is maximum at 555 nanometers, meaning humans see the most at this point, while plants see the least.

Right. So when we are using a lux meter, we are basically measuring light with reference to the human eye. You can see the cricket ball or not. A lux meter measures light, but it does not measure the light that a plant needs. The light that a plant needs is photosynthetically active radiation. To measure that, you need a PAR meter. We measure photosynthetically active radiation, you need a PAR meter. So, in my kit, I have a PAR meter and a lux meter. Then I have all the leaf analyzers. If I take out a sap from a leaf, extract its juice, how much nitrate is in it, how much potassium, how much calcium, these are all meters.

Lately, I have added a thermal camera. A thermal camera is again a beautiful device for that. You get a thermal image with it. If you point the thermal camera towards the plant, you will get a thermal image. It has temperature ranges, and you will see different colors for different temperature ranges. If you see a leaf in red, it means it is not transpiring, its temperature is higher. If you see it in blue, it means it is transpiring, its temperature is lower. So, I would not say that everyone should have it, but I have them. And an infrared thermometer is a common device, which should also be kept. A wet bulb, dry bulb thermometer should be kept. For a basic farmer, if they want to keep one, an EC pH meter is essential. An IR meter should be kept. You are saying a wet bulb thermometer should be kept. These three are more or less sufficient. More or less, okay. But their usage is more important.

That's exactly what I was going to say next. Usage is important because, you see, when we do greenhouse cultivation, we have to control the environment inside, or manipulate the conditions inside, with respect to what? We have to manage light with respect to the light that is available outside, because we don't have any other source of light. You have to manage humidity with respect to the humidity that is outside. So, for a farmer, or a greenhouse grower, I wouldn't call them a farmer, I would call them an agri-entrepreneur. It is not possible to do it that way. Why? If it is 30 degrees outside, and inside they say, "We want to do this." This also doesn't happen very easily. But if they don't even know what's happening outside, then what will they do inside? Exactly. What will they do inside? Most of the time, I have seen that people say, "It's the summer season." I'll give you an example. It's the summer season, say 40 degrees temperature, and obviously your plants will get stressed due to the heat. And if you see that transpiration is not happening, and the humidity is very high, then transpiration is not happening. So, in such a situation, people get worried and open the vents, "Let the air come in, it's too hot." And no, that is not the solution. Why is that not the solution? See, what is humidity basically? Humidity is the amount of water vapor present in the air, correct? At a given temperature. This point is very important to remember. At a given temperature, how much humidity is there, how much water vapor can it hold? And this capacity of air to take water vapor changes with temperature. Higher the temperature, the capacity will increase. Lower the temperature, the capacity will decrease. Okay, are you getting my point? At 0 degrees, it can hold 1 gram of water vapor. At 35 degrees, it can hold 40 grams. At higher temperatures, the water-holding capacity is higher. Now, imagine your temperature is 40 degrees, and your humidity is 80 percent. You have no way out to reduce the humidity. Your plants are not transpiring at such high humidity. So, normally, at 40 degrees temperature, everybody will open their vents so that the temperature comes down. If the temperature comes down, what will happen to humidity? It will reduce. No, at lower temperatures, the holding capacity is less, right? The capacity is decreasing. So, numerically, it has held less water, but when its capacity is less, humidity will increase. Okay, like that, humidity will increase. Now, in such a situation, if you increase the temperature by 2 degrees in 40 degrees, you will raise it to 42. Now, what will happen? The water vapor holding capacity of, what will happen to that, the air inside, its water-holding capacity will increase. Increase. Humidity will decrease. Humidity will decrease. As humidity decreases, the water-holding capacity of your air inside the greenhouse will increase. The plants will have scope to transpire. They have to throw out water, right? They can only throw out that water when the atmosphere has the capacity to hold it. And to increase that capacity, you need to increase the temperature. So, if plants are experiencing stress at 40 degrees, they will experience similar stress at 42 degrees, don't worry about that. But what will be the difference? At 42 degrees, they will have the capacity to transpire. At 40 degrees, they will not have the capacity to transpire. The plant's own temperature will increase, which is dangerous. Interesting. It was a bit technical, but interesting. When that temperature increases, you are saying the ability to hold will increase. Increase. That will decrease. Capacity will decrease. If we have done this ourselves at night, we have seen these things. At 1 AM, you go into the greenhouse. It's winter time. Let me tell you the background. Normal growers, or normal people, the concept of humidity is a bit different for them. When they sweat and feel hot, they say, "My humidity is very high today." It's a common thing to say, "Today the humidity is very high." But for plants, the concept is different. For plants, humidity means if humidity is high, they cannot transpire because there is no space. Humidity is correct. If humidity is low, there is space in the environment for transpiration. Right. Water-holding capacity reduces with lower temperature. Right. Your temperature at night is low. Your humidity is 100% because the water-holding capacity is very low. It can hold 5 grams of water, it has taken it, so humidity has become 100%. That is why we say relative humidity. Relative humidity is always expressed in percentage, 80%, 90%. Now, its 100, at low temperature, it can hold 5 grams. It has taken 5 grams, so humidity has become 100%. Now you have increased the temperature. Now it can hold 10 grams, and there are only 5 grams of water vapor inside, so the humidity has reduced, right? Now it's 50%. You have further increased the temperature, so humidity has further decreased. As humidity decreases, the scope of transpiration for a plant will increase. Increase. And here, again, my observation is that most growers make a real big blunder. And that blunder is, there is a normal trend to reduce the temperature. A common thing is, "This is the technology, this will reduce the temperature, this will reduce the temperature, this will reduce the temperature." This should not be the case. This should not be a general narrative that reduce the temperature. Reducing the temperature means you are also reducing the heat. You are reducing the heat, so the water transpiration that needs to happen will decrease. It will decrease. That is one thing. Second thing is, inside your greenhouse, there is moisture in the form of water vapor. It always has moisture. Whether it is 30% humidity or 50% humidity, there is moisture inside your greenhouse. Correct. Now, the job of a greenhouse grower is to replace this moisture, take it out, let fresh air come in, and then moisture is created again. Now, many times, this moisture condenses. Okay. This moisture will condense when it reaches the dew point. Right. Now, if you check in the greenhouse at night, your condensation, this moisture, it condenses. Where does it condense first? At the top of the film, at the top of the greenhouse, because the outside temperature is very low. It reaches the dew point. So, all the moisture that touches there gets converted into water droplets. Your iron, all the steel that you use in the structure, its temperature goes down. So, with that surface, with that surface, all the moisture that touches will condense. Right. When it gets condensed on the film or on the structural part of it, the steel part of it, maybe we can avoid it. Now, imagine if the plant's temperature goes down and it reaches the dew point, what will happen? This entire thing inside your greenhouse will get condensed on the leaf. Understood. On the leaf. So, you will get all types of fungal infections because of condensation. Because of the condensation. So, we need to avoid this. Your dry bulb and wet bulb temperature, the dry bulb is giving you the temperature of the greenhouse. The wet bulb practically gives you the temperature of the leaf. I told you, more or less, you should always try to ensure that my wet bulb temperature does not go below the dew point. Below the dew point? No, otherwise condensation will happen. Fungal diseases will come there. Fungal diseases will come there. So, it should not be like that. Here, when we use a secondary layer inside, like thermal nets, aluminum nets that we commonly use in greenhouses, when you spread them, when you are spreading them, what is it? At night, always spread any net you use at night. Spread the net at night. Yes. Spread it. Why? So that you have created another layer between the film and the plant. So, you are trying to maintain a microclimate. Understood. Otherwise, if you don't do this, your plant, which is consuming heat at night, consuming heat, it needs heat. See, there are two types of heats, two processes by which a plant absorbs heat. One is radiation, solar radiation that comes from there. Now, at night, solar radiation is not there. At night, conduction will take place. In conduction, what happens is, heat will travel from a higher temperature inside the greenhouse, around the air around the plant, from there it will come towards the plant, and the plant will start transpiring. And at night, in the absence of light, the process is the same, but this process is known as respiration. And this has to happen. This has to happen. It will absorb heat from its surroundings and use that heat for its respiration. Now, your nets are closed at night, or at night. So, the top of the film is the coolest part. Understood. Now, this conduction will take place. Heat from the plant will start traveling towards the top. It will lose this. It will not be able to use it for its respiration. This, this we normally call as heat emissions. Heat emissions from the plant will move. Here there is a higher temperature. It will move towards the lower temperature, which is the top of the film, the top of the greenhouse. To avoid that, we have put a layer of net in between. Now, you have put an aluminum net. An aluminum net has a property that it absorbs IR, the infrared heat that you avoid reaching the plant during the day. It absorbs that heat and radiates it back at night, releases it. So, it prevents the temperature around your plant from reaching the dew point, so that condensation does not happen. If it, yes, if it loses heat, it will reach the dew point on the surface, on the metal, and on the plant as well. And the moment that happens, the entire thing will get condensed on the leaves, and that will bring fungal infections to your plant. Why? I think greenhouse climate management, greenhouse management is very crucial, of extreme importance. It is of extreme importance. If you ignore this, you will not grow plants successfully. And unfortunately, when we ignore it, the problem is not just ignorance, we also violate basic science. Right. Understood. Out of ignorance, we violate basic science, which causes problems. I would highly encourage those who are watching this podcast, the viewers, to watch this section two or three times so that it registers, and also understand that if they want to get into agriculture, it is a deep science. They need to understand the science of the plant and the science of nature. Until they understand, they will never be able to be very successful agri-entrepreneurs. See, it is a fundamental fact that farming is science, plant growth is science. You cannot deny this fact. I have seen many times, good people, educated people, say, "Oh, what does it matter? What does it matter?" This means your problem will not get solved. Right. Now, I will tell you what happens when you are not managing. When you don't manage the environment well, you create an environment. You create an environment that suits diseases and pests. It doesn't suit plants, it suits diseases and pests. That's why diseases and pests come to you. You always have to create an environment that suits the plant. If it suits the plant, diseases and pests will be negligible, and even if they come, they will be controllable. They will be controllable. And ensuring that my environment inside the greenhouse is proper, ensuring transpiration. Transpiration is more important. Very important. And ensure that my plants are constantly, constantly, 24/7, their job is to transpire. For that, having light inside, having high temperature, adequate irrigation, these are very important. Another point about the shade net. I will tell you. See, when you, suppose you go inside the greenhouse and measure light. Measure light with a PAR meter. Understood. What is this light, the reading you took? This is instantaneous light that was there at that time. And there is always a possibility that you go out, a cloud comes, so the intensity reduces. Now, the intensity has gone down, so your light input has reduced. That's why measuring instantaneous light is important. But simultaneously, we need DLI, that is, Daily Light Integral. That is, the light that our plants received for 24 hours, on average, day and night, average light that we received, that is the most important. If that average is good, then it's good. So, it means that your plants will transpire, they will photosynthesize. Instantaneous light, if it is below 100 moles. This is something very important. Moles is a unit. Unit of light. If your light is below 100 moles, and you go inside the greenhouse, everything will look very good to you. You will not feel at all that the light is less. But you should know that if the light is below 100 moles, plants do not photosynthesize. You will know that from DLI. You will know that from a DLI meter or a PAR meter. And many times, what has happened here is, things have become so static. In the morning, they open the side vents. It's 10 o'clock, so they tell the labor to spread these curtains, reduce the light. In the evening, they say, "Do this." These are not static things. These are not static. See, sometimes what mistake we make is, we need to look at the average light. Now, suppose the light is strong at 12 PM, and suddenly clouds come at 3 PM, and you have told the labor to keep it open until 5 PM, or closed it. Some static instructions you have given. So, if they have kept it open at 3 PM and cut off the light, and after 3 PM the light automatically drops, then what is happening? Your average light for the plant is decreasing. It is decreasing. So, before taking all these decisions, you should ensure that my average light does not decrease. So, if higher light is coming into your greenhouse, fundamentally, I will tell you, first thing is, allow it to come in. There is time at 2 PM, 3 PM, and the light is high. You feel there is too much light. Allow it to come inside. Now, as you have allowed it, give it a backup with proper irrigation. Okay. Proper. Because more light has come, the rate of transpiration will increase, the rate of photosynthesis will increase. Now, these two, these have become our strong points. And to do these two things, what does it need? It needs water and carbon dioxide. It needs irrigation and carbon dioxide. If carbon dioxide is not available, photosynthesis will not happen. If water is not available, transpiration will not happen. So, you have allowed light, so along with that, ensure that there is enough carbon dioxide enrichment. We don't do that in India. So, you have to ensure that fresh air comes in. Because when fresh air comes in, carbon dioxide will come with it. And here also, there is another point that the average grower should note. In our air, 78% is nitrogen (N2) gas, 21% is oxygen (O2). Together, they make 99%. Now, plants don't take nitrogen and oxygen from the air. CO2. Now, you are left with 1% of the air. In that 1%, there is 0.03% CO2. Yes. So, in the total air, in the total air, 350 ppm or 0.03% is carbon dioxide. The moment, let's say, air comes inside your greenhouse, in that, this 0.03% carbon dioxide, your plants will immediately consume it. Now you are left with 99% air. Nitrogen. It is of no use to the plant. What to do with it? Remove it. We have to remove it. Because until it is removed, fresh air will not come in. Fresh air. And air movement. There is also a principle of air movement. It moves from higher pressure to lower pressure. So, the air pressure inside your greenhouse should be lower, and the air pressure outside should be higher. How can you ensure that? Your humidity inside should always be higher than the outside humidity. Understood. Completely. Because when your water vapor is higher inside, your air pressure will drop. Higher humidity means, among the contents of your air, you have increased water vapor. Your humidity inside is 80%, and the rest is 30% outside. So, the air will come from outside to inside. It will come inside. That 80% air will be lighter. It will move up and out from the vents, out from the vents. And as space is created inside, fresh.

Air will come. Fresh air means more CO2. More CO2 for the plant. Operating the vents is so, sometimes, how much vent should we open? Sometimes, to increase humidity, we have to bring down the vents, even during the day. Because whatever moisture the plants are transpiring, whatever moisture they are releasing, it should not be lost. If it is lost, the humidity will go down. If we want high humidity, then we bring down the vents, maybe 50%, maybe 75%, maybe 25%. Considering that time, we look at the dry bulb and wet bulb. If their difference becomes too much, if the difference is higher, it means the humidity is low in your place. So, if you don't have any way to increase humidity, bring down the vents. The moisture being created inside should not be lost. Correct, it should not be lost. So, as we were talking about the light, more light is coming inside now. More light needs more carbon dioxide. How can you ensure more carbon dioxide? You will have to ensure that more air comes inside, fresh air comes inside. Only then will carbon dioxide be available. Absolutely. Photosynthesis will be ensured then. Second, now transpiration needs to be ensured. So, your irrigation should be proper at that time. Your irrigation cycles, maybe the number of cycles, should increase, or the volume per cycle should increase, so that it can compensate for that rate of transpiration. Understood. Otherwise, what will happen? You have more light coming inside, but no water, no fresh air. So, this process will be dumped. It will be inefficient. I think in the last 20-30 minutes, we have discussed proper greenhouse management. What are the details that people should pay attention to? All these tools are very important, as you mentioned. It is very important to keep all these things in mind. Otherwise, the best structure, best, nothing will work. Yes, nothing will work. I am repeating again, you cannot create an environment inside and tell the plant to come into it, to grow in it. What are its requirements? What does it need? You have to check that, you have to create it. Only then will it perform at its best. And the best way to do that is to make it transpire. Because nature, nature has played a very, is playing a very important role. 90% of the water a plant takes, it has to transpire. It uses only 10% of it. So, how important is transpiration? And to make sure that transpiration is taking place, that much transpiration is happening, you need humidity control, you need light control, you need control of the outside air. If you do all these things, and maybe some people will find this a bit difficult now, but it is not. It is not difficult at all. You have to do some things very thoughtfully, initially. And after some time, one month, two months, you will do it, and then it becomes a habit. Then it becomes a routine, and it runs very smoothly, no issues. Understood. So, sir, let's talk a little about the hydroponic system. Hydroponic growing. Many people say that the yield produced in hydroponics is of much better quality, quantity, much healthier for the consumer, right? Is all this true? Secondly, many people nowadays are comparing the produce of hydroponics with organic farming. People say that organic farming is also healthier, hydroponics is also healthy. How can we draw a comparison between the two? Sir, which would you say is better than the other? What is the difference? People first, what you asked me, types of hydroponics. There are two-three types of hydroponics, but their basic principle is the same: that all the input given to the plant is given through water. Either directly in NFT (Nutrient Film Technique), or if we use coco peat or any other medium, the use of that medium, as I told you, is only to anchor the plant, to store a little water and nutrients, and release it slowly. So, broadly, NFT is one segment, one type of hydroponics, and soilless is another type, but the basics are the same. There is no fundamental difference in the basics, you say, that you have to do this in this and not in that. Nothing like that. Both are the same. Second thing, what you were asking me, about healthy food versus organic farming. Personally, I believe that whether it is organic food or hydroponic food, if you know how to do both tasks very well, then you can always prepare good, safe food. In hydroponics also, organic, and in that also, organic. It's not that I am against organic, but I feel that let's look at the farmer's survival. The farmer will grow healthy food for you only when he himself survives. By way of yields and other things, organic yields are very low. Many farmers complain about this, and there is no market segment for them where they can get a premium. I always say that we should stress on producing safe food, residue-free food. And if you do hydroponics, producing residue-free food is comparatively easier. Easier. But if you understand how to run the hydroponic setup. Again, we make some fundamental mistakes. We think that we have installed some hydroponic equipment or system, and now this system will grow for me. This system, it is necessary to rate the system. No system will, I mean, grow plants. No system will grow plants until you know how to operate that system. In order to save money, we use such things in the system that make it impossible to produce safe food. For example, we use common PVC pipes, the round pipes used in NFT. The lead content is always very high, and under high temperature, in May-June, when you cultivate in them, they release that lead, and all that lead comes into your plants. So, a grower should always pay attention, calculate well, and see that whatever PVC equipment they are using is all food-grade. Food-grade, food-grade. Otherwise, no matter how much you try to be organic, how much residue-free from the outside, if there is a problem in the basic infrastructure, you won't be able to do it. That is one. Second thing is to ensure that what I am preparing, the vegetable, is safe to eat, safe to eat. The tool we discussed thoroughly, that is the greenhouse environment. If you study that tool very well and use it, then the attack of diseases and pests can be drastically reduced. Because of that, your pesticides and, and that will be used less. Less use. Very less. Very less. I can show you some examples where our chemical input was reduced by 68%. How? By maintaining a good environment inside the greenhouse. When to vent, when to close the vent, when to open the top vent, when to close it, when to open the shade net, when to close it. Any action that you do inside the greenhouse, there should be a reason for it. If I am opening the curtain, why am I opening it? If I am closing the curtain, why am I closing it? If you operate everything with a reason, then your attack of diseases and pests will be very less. It will be very less. So, your use of chemicals will greatly reduce. Not only reduce, perhaps very mild chemicals which are very friendly to use, your things will come under control. The best way is, whenever any grower, any agri-entrepreneur plants a crop inside a greenhouse, suppose they plant cucumber. See, every disease and every pest does not affect every crop. And it does not affect at all times. Certain specific diseases affect cucumber, certain specific pests affect it. Some are common too. But I am speaking generally, and there is also a specific time when it comes. It's not that it will come anytime. So, you are a grower, and you have to grow cucumbers. Prepare a list. Make a list of when I am planting my crop, and what problems can arise. Note them down. Then make the next column for it, saying what environment should be for these. For mites, less humidity, high temperature. This is a situation that forms where mites come. And if you have already noted it down, then as soon as you feel high temperature, that is the time you should increase the humidity. You will have a checklist, and you will immediately know that to avoid this condition, what do I need to do? The third column should be, if I need any chemical, it should be mentioned. It should be in your stock. Otherwise, I have seen that many times a farmer needs to use a chemical, it takes them four days to get it, then to apply it. By then, the damage is so much that it has no effect. All this should be pre-planned and in your stock. And you have another tool that you can use very well, which is, how to identify which pest, which insect, and which disease, and on which part to identify it. For example, thrips. Where does it come first? When we see it, that is not the stage. That is not the stage to diagnose it, to see it. First, it should come to our mind that now, suppose I have planted a crop in August. What environment is suitable for thrips? And if such an environment comes in December, then as soon as December arrives, the grower should be alert that thrips can come at this time. And if thrips come, where should I look for it first? Thrips first come inside the flower. If you have any flowers, they come inside them. Or in the petiole of the leaves, where it joins the stem, where it sits secretly. Any such place, any such point in the plant where it can hide, we should search for it. So, suppose in December, you think thrips will come, and you don't see thrips anywhere. That doesn't mean it hasn't come. You should cut open a few flowers here and there and look inside them. If you open them and look at that time, and if you see thrips, you can immediately take preventive action and stop it. Once it spreads, it is not possible to stop them. And to stop them, you will use all sorts of chemicals indiscriminately. And then there is no point in producing organic or safe food. If I ever get a chance, I will share some test reports of vegetables with you, in which we tested some vegetables on 40 parameters, in which chemicals were used, and all chemicals are absent on all 40 parameters. Yes, meaning no, no residue. Okay. No residue. Because we applied them under, not randomly throwing them. We used them systematically, at a proper time, harvested at a proper time, so that the residual effect is eliminated. When you involve all these processes, I am very sure that you will also get a good produce, on which there will be no residue of any insecticide or pesticide. And that very produce will qualify as safe produce. And I think it is better to prepare safe produce than organic. So that it is available to everyone. Organic is made for a niche market. Meaning, my health is important, so I will eat organic. But my driver, his health is also important to him. If he cannot afford organic, does it mean he should eat anything? So, again, it's my personal view. Produce safe food. Make sure there is no residual effect on your vegetables. This way, the farmer will also survive, and the consumer will also survive. But this safe food and residue-free food can only be produced inside a greenhouse. Is that right? Possible. Yes, because the majority of our farmers, perhaps those watching this podcast, are growing in open fields. Controlling in open fields is a bit difficult. Difficult. Difficult. That is a reality that everyone has to accept. Because there, you cannot control many climatic factors. So, naturally, pest attacks, etc., will increase. Absolutely, absolutely. In both, you see, there will be natural changes in the conditions outside, and pests and diseases will come in the open field. And in greenhouse crops, due to our mistake, the grower's mistake, we make the environment so bad that pests and diseases come due to that environment. Right. What I understand about you is that even the health and quality of the produce ultimately depends more on the growing skill. And if your growing skill is correct, then you will use less pesticide and fertilizer, and thereby you will be able to grow residue-free produce. Absolutely. So, that's very crucial. Again, it comes down to skill. Again, skill, greenhouse operation, understanding basics, not violating basic plant science. All these things are very important. Before every action, see, what I tell my labor on my farm. Suppose I told them to water four times today. Commonly, we say, "Hey, water four times." But in addition to this, I tell them one thing. I tell them, "Water four times, I have told you this. But before watering, look at the sky. Look at the intensity. How much light is there? If you think there are clouds, light is less, then don't water." The decision is yours. It is not proper for me to say from home, "Brother, give water." See, what should be the idea of service providers, consultants, service providers? People don't share information or knowledge. They think if they tell someone something, then they will have nothing left. But unfortunately, they don't know that when they don't share, their own knowledge doesn't grow either. If it hasn't decreased, you haven't shared it with anyone, so it hasn't decreased. The bucket hasn't emptied. It hasn't emptied. So, it has filled up. The job of service providers should basically be to enhance and increase the capacity and capacity building of the people who are working on the greenhouse. Be it labor, be it supervisor, be it owner. To build their capacity. That should be their job. When their capacity is built, they will become capable of making decisions in your absence. See, suppose I am providing consultancy. I am giving consultancy to a project. I will go once a week. I will go four times a month. The project will not run or fail just by my going four times. Absolutely. Because for the remaining 26 days, the people who have to manage it, until their capacity is built, it cannot turn out to be a successful story. It won't become that. So, my job, I go for four days, give them tips, everything. Along with that, I have to ensure that I build their capacity, so that when I am not there, they are capable of making decisions. Absolutely. As you said, you are barely there 1% of the time. So, I give such small tips to my growers, like keep an eye on the difference between dry bulb and wet bulb. Keep an eye on it. If that difference is too much, then assume there is a problem. If it is too little, then assume there is a problem. At least, at least the person looking at it should have the skill to communicate. So that he can communicate with me or with my team. "Sir, there is this much temperature difference." So, this communication skill is very important. And for this, we need to build the capacity of people at that level, the labor at that level. And retaining labor in a greenhouse is of extreme importance. Right. The problem is the most. Because people think that we have picked up four laborers from the street and put them in the greenhouse, and our work will be done. It does not happen. You need trained, skilled labor. Retain them. Remunerate them properly, so that they stick to it. They will take your farm forward. Exactly. The work at the ground level, they have to do it. They have to do it. Right, right. Sir, let's talk a little about the trending topic again, about the types of hydroponic systems. We have talked about NFT in the podcast. In soilless, we grow in media. In troughs, in grow bags, there is the Dutch bucket system. Can you tell us a little detail about all these four systems? Which crop can be grown in which? What are the advantages? What are the restrictions? Why, as you said, in certain systems, growing certain crops is better? Can we throw some light on the systems? See, NFT, NFT, Nutrient Film Technique. It is best suited. I talk about the economics and certain agronomic factors also. With economics also, and with a bit more economics, it suits those crops whose crop cycle, life cycle, is short. So that you can take the maximum number of crops from it. Then we have another, grow bags or troughs or Dutch buckets. These three systems are more or less the same. Same. In this, this suits those where the crop cycle is longer. Crops like capsicum, crops like cucumber, crops like tomato. It suits them. But in these three, other than NFT, in these three systems, there are some advantages, some disadvantages. Dutch bucket is a good technology where recycling happens. If you are giving solution, it gets recycled. So, you will save a lot of water and nutrients. Dutch bucket, but it is expensive. Grow bags, where we use PVC bags. This is an okay system. Why is it an okay system? Because in this, the roots do not get much space to spread. We don't get much space. When the root curls, it stays at the bottom. Roots, plants, as I told you, plants need carbon dioxide, but roots need oxygen. Correct. Roots get oxygen in two ways. One is dissolved oxygen that is available in the water. And the second is its peripheral root, the roots on the top, which take some oxygen from the air. When it keeps circling in the bag, it goes down a lot. So, it doesn't get that peripheral oxygen that it should get. So, there is always a possibility that some Pithium or Pythium type of root rot type of thing will come, and

If you talk about troughs, I rate them very high, okay, very, very high. Perhaps the volume will also be found in them. Volume is found for it, and it spreads horizontally. Check in troughs. Remove the coco peat slightly from the top, and you will see all the white roots. Right? So, the availability of oxygen in troughs is very high, very high. So, growth and other things are comparatively higher, comparatively higher, and better. But now, I will say again that ultimately, what your result is, it will not be decided by the trough, nor by the bag, nor by the skill of the person who knows how to operate it properly. They will be able to operate it. But the basic advantages, I think the trough is a very good system, a very good system. Then I will rate, say, the Dutch bucket, and then, then last, grow bags. NFT is separate. NFT is altogether a different thing. NFT has one advantage, I will tell you, that CAPEX is very high, but operating costs are very low. Is it? Yes, yes, labor costs are also very low, very low. Right, right. In fact, at times, it has been compared that your operating cost in soil, the operating cost by way of labor, never mind weeding, never mind digging, never mind this, never mind that, nothing has to be done. But CAPEX is higher, and to justify that CAPEX, your crop cycle should be short, and it should be a premium crop. One, one crop cycle should be there for you with small premium crops. Second, operating it is also an art. Everyone is not running it. All people are not able to operate it properly. It should have a good nursery in its backup. Right, a good nursery should be there from where you know when I have to sow, when in order to maintain those 10-12 cycles, you should have a very good nursery in backup, and you should know exactly on which date I have to put what seed, when to transfer it into channels, how long I should keep it in the nursery. All these things matter a lot, matter a lot. Because its capital expenditure is also high, people have a right that if I am spending that much money, then I should at least do this basic study, and with basic study, choosing the right partner is very important. Choosing the right partner is very important, and never, never compromise on infrastructure. This has also become a habit of ours. To install a greenhouse, install a cheap one. They are giving it to me for 1000 rupees, you are giving it to me for 1100 rupees, I will install the 1000 rupee one. I am not saying that you should throw money away. You should invest appropriately. My film has this problem, my vent has this problem, my drip is not working, my this, my this, nothing like this should happen. The grower's job is to grow, to grow. Once the infrastructure is installed, once the infrastructure is in place, then he should be bothered only about the crop. And this infrastructure causes problems when you compromise on it. That CAPEX, I don't know why. I have seen the best of people. This is not about being educated or anything. Oh, what is it? It's just iron, covering iron with plastic, what else? It's nothing. But there is a lot of science in it. If they are still watching this podcast, perhaps they have understood that it is very deep science, very deep science. Science, this, this I tell you, not even one percent of it should be taken casually. Not even one percent, because if you take anything casually, that becomes your weaker link. If there is a hole in the bucket at a particular level, then you cannot fill that bucket beyond that. Even if it is a golden bucket, you cannot fill it higher. So, how much water will be filled in that bucket will be decided by that hole in it. So, no matter how well you have done, but if you have compromised in one place, then your output will be decided by that point, not by the other strong points. The margin for error is a bit low, very low, very low. And to compromise on such things, look, some mistakes are made unknowingly by humans, that's fine. But some mistakes are made knowingly. We, we say science, what happens with this? Such statements I have heard from people. Such statements I have heard from people. So, we, we are doing what? This is disastrous. We are challenging science. We are challenging science. When we say, what happens with this? What happens with pH? Proven science, which people have been using for many years, proven science, which is proven science, we challenge it. And then still expect our plants to grow. How is it going to happen? It won't happen, sir. In hydroponics, in general, in greenhouse cultivation, a common problem statement in India, because it is a very price-sensitive market, is that the barrier to entry is very high because the initial capital to be invested, the initial knowledge required, is quite high. Are there any low-cost solutions for this? Because I have seen somewhere that in foreign countries, they are doing hydroponics in open fields, or something like that, which we sometimes do in gardens. But commercially, are there low-cost investment options available, for which perhaps farmers cannot spend that much money? Can hydroponics be at a low cost for them? Not much, it cannot be. No. Look, in the places where people are doing it outside, one is that they have a lot of experience. Second thing is that they have analyzed their environment very well and understood it, and then they start doing it accordingly. Third point is that what we see, we see that it is happening in open fields in Thailand. It is not necessary that those people are doing it very well. I, I, I met a person from Holland who is having a tomato farm there, doing, I mean, doing very well. But when I asked him about the economics, he put his hands to his ears and said, "No, economically, my farm is not doing well." So, we should not go for such options where we are violating basic things. I at least, at least say that if someone wants to do hydroponics, they should do it in a greenhouse, even if it is a bit small. It can be done in a net house. It can be done in a net house. It can be done in a net house. Look, what will be the difference between a net house and a greenhouse? In a net house, you don't have controls. Your controls are less. In a polyhouse, you have more controls. Ventilation, ventilation, humidity control. And don't take that lightly either. Don't take that lightly either. In a net house, there is more natural ventilation. If you want to install a net house, then you should grow crops that are for four to six months, and at a particular time when the climatic conditions are naturally good, then you should grow them. Very important point. If you want to grow such a crop and you feel that naturally my conditions are not that good, avoid net houses. Go for polyhouses. Go for polyhouses. One should learn to operate a polyhouse. For example, sorry sir, if it is not raining during the year, can I do it in a net house for four to six months? Yes, you can. And throughout the year, in a polyhouse, integrated again, it becomes an integrated approach. Adopting an integrated approach. If it is a big farm, if we have done a project near Delhi, there we have three polyhouses and one net house. The purpose of the net house was that in summers, when the temperature is higher, we can get some production from there, some production from there. That's why we did it. And in winter, we noticed that nothing came from the net house. There was no production. Yes, yes. And you have to accept it. If you have installed it, and you know at that time that you will not get production from your net house in winter, you have to accept it. You have to create your economy accordingly. You should build it. And we were expecting it, it won't come from there. We didn't take it from there. It didn't come. But it came from polyhouses. It came from polyhouses. Best option, again, my experience is in polyhouses and knowing how to run it. Then the equipment you install inside, automation is a good tool. Again, it's a tool. This tool is not ultimate. You have automated things, and you feel that now I probably don't need to do anything. This is wrong. No matter how great automation you have installed, you still need to monitor it, understand it, when do I need to do what, how to make adjustments. Then only it can be a success story. And at least, at least to begin with hydroponics, if someone wants to start, it might sound a bit absurd, never begin with automation. You won't understand then. Then you don't learn. Then you don't learn. Again, I will give an example. There is a couple in Mumbai, very young, less than 30, doing very well, very well. When I met them for the first time, they invited me to their farm. Again, I went on a morning flight and returned in the evening. So, I had a lot of time at my disposal. So, the conversation went on. I saw their entire system. They had an automated fertilizer unit, imported from Russia, imported from Russia. So, it was around 20 lakh rupees. So, when the conclusion was made, I concluded one thing. I said, "Hey, remove this." Why remove this? You learn the basics. We, actually, right now, what are you doing? When this automation, all this is promoted, it is promoted like this. Install this machine, it will give fertilizer itself. You don't have to do anything. It will give it itself. It doesn't give it itself. The operator behind it, who makes its recipes, who has proper knowledge of fertilizer, depends on that. The machine will do a static job. Whatever you feed, it will do only that. But who is feeding what? Who is feeding what? How much expertise they have decides how effective my machine is. So, they agreed. So, they shut down the machine for four months and started manual work. They learned everything. Yes, they learned everything. And you won't believe it, they started with 500 square meters. Now they have 8 acres. Wow. Purely hydroponic. Purely hydroponic. Solace and hydroponic. And they are doing well. Doing well. They are possibly anyone expanding from 500 square meters to 6 acres must be doing well. Must be doing well. And they are, they are, God bless them. They are so hard-working, so hard-working, so nice people to work with. But they have 1500 clients to whom they do home delivery. Nice. They have built a D2C network. D2C network. They do almost 250 deliveries every day. Their six-acre farm has almost 40 people working. Wow. That's a lot. They are doing very well. But they, no, they understood things. They are good growers. You can say, yes, they are definitely very good. They have good horticultural skills. They learned that. They learned that. And what is the problem with automation? We leave everything to it. And we will proudly say, "I have automated it. Now it will do it itself." Correct. No, you should understand its basics. We make many mistakes in giving fertilizer. Our knowledge of fertigation is very poor. Most of the people. Now, yesterday or the day before, the day before, possibly, yes, the day before, I was in Delhi. I saw a formulation. It was completely wrong. Completely wrong. And when I tried to explain it, first he didn't understand. Then, when I did it with pen and paper, I said, "It is not... I am saying it is wrong. It is not wrong because of this. Look at the science behind it." And I showed him by calculating. It was completely different. So, it's deep science. Fertigation. So, during that conference also, I said that any formulation which is in whole numbers, where it is said, "Add 4 kg of calcium nitrate, add 2 kg of potassium nitrate." This whole number is fake. All fake. When you calculate it, actually, it can never be 4 kg, 2 kg. It will be 4 kg, 332 grams. Why? It cannot be. Yes. So, the art behind it, if you don't have that, then what you feed into your equipment, your automation, that's all wrong. First, you should learn that. How to make fertigation. Then run. Then machines. See, what these automated machines actually do. They take a defined volume of fertilizer. Mix it with a defined volume of water. Then push it forward inside the A tank, B tank. Now, you have fertilizer in the tank. Milk, cheese, whatever. The machine doesn't know. It will pick up one liter from there, mix it with 100 liters of water, and send it forward. And because of automation, it will happen on time. It will happen at 12 o'clock, then again at 1 o'clock. As you have set it. So, you feel that you have done tremendous automation. But that is not true. It is not true. What is true? Is that one liter it is taking from there correct? Right? Is that volume it is taking, and the volume of water with which it is mixing, is this mixable? You cannot take any quantity of A and mix it with any quantity of B. It is not possible. It is not possible. So, the science behind it, the hydroponic grower needs to understand it. It is very, very important. I noticed in that same formulation that there was so much precipitation at the bottom of their tanks. Because it was not considered at all, how much fertilizer I need to put in how much water. For example, fertilizers like potassium nitrate. Only 350 grams of potassium nitrate can get, you can dissolve in 1 liter of water. Okay. Now, you have put 500 grams. You thought it dissolved, but it will settle down. All 150 grams residue. Tomorrow, when you run the automation, all of it will come into your drip lines. It will choke your drip lines. Because, what is the solubility of each item? Then, what is the compatibility? Can I mix A and B or not? Until you have all this knowledge, all this knowledge, then your automation is defunct. Automation is not the answer. You are saying, it can be a useful tool, because many times we hear, like in North America, they are running 100 acres, 150, two acres, five labels. This I have heard many times. But you are saying that perhaps they have already reached that level where their fundamentals are clear, and then they are using automated systems. Look, you can install automated systems in a thousand acres too. No issue. I am not against it. No, no. I understand. But what is the automation feeding? You need to know the science behind it. Then it is an effective tool for you. If you don't know that, if you don't know that, then this tool, it becomes very inefficient. This tool becomes very inefficient. Normally, in hydroponics, we use A and B tanks. Right? Potassium nitrate, if you notice, is added to both A and B. There is a reason. Half of the, suppose you have to use 10 kg of potassium nitrate. Suppose 10 kg of potassium nitrate. Then 5 kg is added to tank A, and 5 kg is added to tank B. This is done because if you put 10 kg in one tank, it won't dissolve. Now, I have seen such formulations where they put 10, even 15, 15 kg in one tank. In one tank. So, these are fundamental mistakes. They need to be avoided. It is important to know about them. Wow. So, many details have to be kept in mind for any farming, hydroponics in particular. That's why perhaps they say that in hydroponics, there is no room for error. There is no buffering. As I told you, there is no buffering at all. If you give 1 gram, only 1 gram will go. Two grams. Well, sometimes I have also noticed that suppose you have a hydroponic formulation, and you feel a deficiency of calcium in the plants. So, you think, "Hey, increase the calcium nitrate in this." As soon as you increase the calcium nitrate in that formulation, what have you actually done? You have changed the ratios of all the ingredients with each other. You have disturbed them. So, from a balanced formulation, this has now become an unbalanced formulation. When you apply this formulation to your plants, it will stay in the roots. In our case, if there is a balanced formulation, it should stay in the roots in a balanced form for a longer time, so that there is uptake of nutrients. When you have changed its ratios, you have unbalanced it. And it will stay in the roots in this imbalanced form for a pretty long time. You will think that I am giving it daily, but the plants are not getting it. So, you will get that deficiency in that item. You have unnecessarily added it. You should never do this. Whenever you feel any deficiency, first, you need to ensure that the formulation I am using is balanced. Second thing is that after that, if you still feel any deficiency, then you need to find out why. If you are feeling a deficiency of calcium, it doesn't mean you are not giving calcium. The reason could be that your greenhouse operation is not right. You are running your plants at very high humidity, due to which water uptake is not happening. EC might also be high. EC might also be high. Water uptake is not proper. These nutrients like calcium and boron, they go to the plant along with the water. Now, if you are continuously running your plants at very high humidity, then the water uptake will decrease. If water uptake decreases, then the availability of calcium and boron to the plants will decrease, even though you are giving it. So, in such cases, the first thing you should ensure is to check the environment. Is the environment okay? After that, the second thing you should check is, is my pH correct? Of the solution. Because if your pH drifts, then you will have a problem. Right? You will have a problem. And there are so many reasons for pH to drift. So many reasons. One of the reasons is when we use cemented tanks in hydroponics. Okay. That also happens. Cement has chemicals. It has carbonates, bicarbonates. They will react with your water. So, the pH of the water. These small, small details all matter. They will matter. I just want to tell people, don't get scared by hearing all this. This is 40 years of experience talking. Look, there is no need to be scared. If we violate science somewhere, we need to correct it. If we say we won't correct it and we will be able to work, it's not possible. In hydroponics, all the equipment, all the tanks you use, should be of inert material so that they do not interfere with the nutrients. Or with this, it should be inert material, so that it does not interfere with water. Understood. Sir, now I have a good grower.

I have done all the growing well, keeping the greenhouse environment in mind. I have taken care of fertigation, nutrition, irrigation, whatever it is, right? Still, my success is not guaranteed until I sell the produce. Just like you gave a very good example about your friend in Mumbai, who is selling through a D2C network and is able to sell to 250 customers daily. Now, how will the farmers who have come into hydroponics identify themselves? Because you have more capital, you have worked harder, you should also get rewarded for it. See, for a minute, let's talk about any business, any business where marketing is going to be a part. Whenever you want to do any business, before doing it, you should know your target market. I should know who my target market is before starting. It is very important. If you don't identify that market, you will definitely have problems. The second thing we commonly do wrong is mixing sales and marketing. These are two different terms. When you produce something, sale is the last step when the product actually lands up with the consumer, that becomes a sale. But when we talk about marketing, your marketing starts from day one when you conceive a project. Marketing starts with that idea when you conceive it, your marketing has started. What exactly does it mean, right produce, right product, right variety, right climate for that, then right packing, right logistics, right agronomy support. All these things, all these things should be at a particular level, and you should consider them. When you consider all these things, you will end up with a product that will be marketable, and with the help of sales, it will actually land up in the right market or right place. Now, where do we make mistakes? I have also noticed that many growers come and say, "Sir, in the case of flowers, I want to grow Gerbera. What is the concern? I like Gerbera very much. I want to grow Gerbera. I like Lilium very much. I want to grow Lilium." If you like Lilium and Gerbera, then it's fine to grow them in pots at home. Buy and grow what the market needs and likes, not what you like. So, many times I have noticed, like in Lilium, people... there was a grower in Himachal. He grew a particular color, which was a very dark color of Lilium. So I asked him, "Why did you grow it?" "I like it very much. Basically, from Tibet, they say I love this color." I said, "You have to ensure that people love it." Now, the variety he selected, when it went to the flower market, and in India, normally flowers are used in weddings, in the evening, like when it's placed in a tent or a banquet hall, it wasn't visible in that light. We couldn't see it. So, nobody purchased. What happened? Actually, the selection of variety has landed that fellow into a product which is non-marketable. So, your marketing starts from that time. Right variety, very right climate, very, very important. You should never, never, never, never spend a good amount of time on this before starting any project. Just like we always say, study the market, read the market, study demand and supply. Seeing is believing. It's not important what I am saying. If you get to see what I am saying somewhere, you will get answers to the 10 questions in your mind. Right. So, when it comes to marketing, I have also seen that people don't have volumes. Someone has a small NFT somewhere, and they need 500 kg. For transportation, they won't have it. The transportation cost will be so high that their entire economics will be ruined. Right. So, marketing technically means it's a process that starts from day one. Sales is its last stage. If you take care of all these things in marketing, you will end up with a product that is marketable. In business and startup world, we call this PMF - Product Market Fit. It is important for people in agriculture to adopt this same thing, that you grow what the market demands, not what you like. Yes, in startups, this is what they say. Most startups fail because they start working on an idea that they think, "Yes, I can make money from this." You went to the market, asked 100 people, "Do you need this idea?" You didn't ask. Where does the problem come? You are not very sincere to yourself. At that time, if someone tells you something negative about your idea or your product, you are not ready to accept it. You are not ready to accept it. At that time, you don't listen to anyone, and at the end of the day, you will end up with this. Right. But it's a very important point that produce what the market needs, what the market needs, understand the market. You can do small trials here and there. And in fact, they should be encouraged. But that should also be done when you are in a very safe zone. If you are doing a big project and from the first day you are doing something that no one has done before, then you are putting yourself in a very big risk. If you have the capacity, then it's fine. If not, unfortunately, people don't have the capacity to absorb that much shock. So, sir, if I want to start hydroponics, what would you suggest, how much area should I start with? Closer to a metro or an upcoming B-grade city? What is happening in India now? Some cities are developing very well. Some cities are developing well, yes, yes, like Indore, Jaipur, Ahmedabad. These are very fast upcoming stages. The scope for hydroponic produce is slowly developing here as well. If you are closer to these places, in any case, to begin with, not more than 1000 square meters. To increase NFT and to make it profitable or economically viable, you should have one or two products from vines, capsicum, tomatoes, cucumbers in soilless. Because at times, one product increases the compatibility of another product. Now, suppose you are coming to me for B2C to sell some goods, then I will tell you, "Hey, I'll take four things from you and two from the market." No, that's not good. "Hey, I'll take all four from there." So, you have to create a minimum basket that suits me, that suits me. You should design your project keeping that in mind. Right. Very, again, very important point. If you start, start small. But in India, everyone asks for coriander and mint, and we don't have the habit of buying coriander and mint. When we buy vegetables, they give us coriander and mint for free. Now, if you have created a basket of your products, then you cannot tell your consumer, "I am giving you these 10 things, and you go and buy coriander and mint from the market." You have to include that as a product, conceive the idea. How to give it? And maybe you will have to give it for free. You will have to give it for free. Oh, it happens like that. It has to be done because I am getting it for free. And see, you can buy vegetables worth ₹1000, but specifically, I have seen it with ladies, the joy they get from receiving free coriander and mint. I have taken so much mint for free from them. I have taken so many chilies from them. In such a case, when you design a project, you know your target market. If your target market is wholesale, mandis, then coriander and mint are of no use. Volumes will be useful. But if you want to do B2C, then the number of products has to be higher, and coriander and mint should be included. Interesting, for the first time, emphasis on coriander and mint. Sir, after talking about all this, I would like to ask you, what do you think? What do you think is the future of hydroponics? We talked briefly about this. Many people are saying, I said that hydroponics is going to be the future. You said that there has to be integration, that hydroponics and soil-based farming should be together. In the next 10-15 years, what do you think will be the increase in the usability of hydroponics? See, the usability of protected cultivation is definitely going to increase. First thing, let me tell you, the usability of our protected cultivation is definitely going to increase. Right. So, the produce from greenhouses, the greenhouse industry, its future is good. It will grow. It's taking some time, but if you notice one more thing, in the last two-four years, I have noticed that many projects that were set up four years ago are expanding. Earlier, they were not expanding. They have understood some typical things of this industry and have started expanding. With a very healthy sign, which is a very healthy sign. That is one. Second thing is that corporates have started entering the field, and there, the sizes of projects have increased. Bigger projects are being set up, and because of that, the sustainability of the project has become good. So, in the future, all these things are going to increase. But if we think that NFT, especially NFT, is going to take over our soilless cultivation or this thing, no, that is not going to happen. It will remain in a segment, up to a particular level. Soilless cultivation is bound to increase. We are bound to increase substrate-based cultivation. But if we say it will completely replace soil, I don't see that happening. I don't see that. Usability will increase. But as long as the soil is healthy, cultivation in soil should be done. It should be done until then. And to begin with, if any youngster wants to do this work, it is always better for them to go into soil. Right. Go into soil. Sir, any final message for your viewers, farmers, youngsters? What message would you like to give them? See, I don't think I should give a message, but I would like to share my experience, which took me 40 years to understand. I don't want you to take 40 years for that. And that is, do not violate basic plant science. Understand basic science. Understand it in your own language, in a language that you understand so that you don't face any problems while working. So, stick to basic science. The small tips I have given you here, I am very sure they will help you. No, no basic scientific violations. That is my message. This is science, it should be done scientifically. Follow science. Treat agriculture as science and business. Yes, the future of agriculture is yours. The future has to be. If there is no future for vegetables, no future for food, then what will be the future? Exactly. It's a product where everyone is your consumer. We, we, I am making spinach. There are 150 crore people in India. All 150 eat spinach or tomatoes. Now, it depends on your capacity, capability, how many people you are feeding, how much market share you can take. But to say that no one will eat this, that's not going to happen. The market will grow. India is growing. The middle class is growing. People are becoming health-conscious. They want good vegetables, proper vegetables. They want honesty. If you are quoting residue-free, then it should truly be residue-free. If you are organic, then it should truly be organic. If we observe all these things, I am very sure the future is going to be very bright. Maml Sir, thank you so much for your time. I think we talked for over two hours. I am not sure. I learned a lot. I will watch this podcast again. I will have to revise a lot. And I hope that those who are watching this podcast will pick up a lot and watch this podcast carefully. The purpose of this podcast is not entertainment. The purpose of this podcast is not to have any agenda. The agenda is to educate people and for them to improve their lives and quality. Absolutely, absolutely. There is no hidden agenda. We are not selling anything over here. It is an experience that I am sharing. I can be wrong here and there, but this is my experience, and I have shared my experience with great honesty. And I am very sure it is going to help people. Thank you so much. Thank you so much, sir. We will meet again. Thank you.