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[music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] >> Hello, hello, hello. It's April 28th. This is Heart of the Matter Epiphany. And we are talking about more bad LDS fruit.
>> [laughter] >> This is after our talk about holy lust.
>> That's right. >> past three episodes.
>> That's right. We're talking about We've been talking about holy lust.
>> We started in on this mini series describing the biblical basis for Mormonism being a complete counterfeit to the will and ways of God. So, tell us what the basis was, Dad.
>> Well, the basis truly from the Bible is God gave Adam and Eve, our first parents who represented the whole human race. Okay? Um two trees. He said, "Eat of this one in faith. Trust me. Eat of this one and don't eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil." All right? And the LDS teach that Eve and then Adam chose to eat of the tree God told them not to, which was in defiance of what he said, and that that was a good thing. And so what that establishes is that they actually promote a system that dines on the fruit of knowledge of good and evil. And they they try to represent the good side in all their presentations. But they still are evil and we're going to discuss that today, tonight. All right.
>> So, because of this, we teach that Mormonism is a world religion.
>> World religion. All religions really are world religions.
>> of Yeah. Yeah. That's a way to put it. And meaning it's not God's church.
>> Right. >> Um Not even close.
>> a hard word in this moment, but not God not God's.
>> Yeah, it's not God's.
>> Yeah. And that's based on the knowledge of good and evil, this church, and it promotes even directly lust and pride that's of this world. And we talked about that in the previous episode.
>> Because John said, "All that is in the world boom boom boom the lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes, pride of life is not of the Father, but is of this world." And that is that is hearkening directly to what caused Eve to eat of that tree, which the Mormons say was good. Yeah. And sets up Mormonism as we know it, which we went through and we're going to keep going through today in a different way.
>> Yeah. Um so, this is the real fruit of Mormonism and that's why you're calling it bad fruit. It's a world religion, promotes principles of this world, uh which are not of the Father, but appear to be good.
>> Right. They're good in most respects. Because in this world Yeah.
>> they appear to teach to be honest, good, chaste, and all these things.
>> Someone has just to insert someone has told us that we should find a better word for good and bad because there's like nuance to this. It's it's good fruit in this world. Yeah.
>> And that's not a bad thing if what you're looking for is this world.
>> Yeah. What's bad is to say that that good fruit is of God.
>> That's right. >> And so we're calling it bad fruit because it's not of God.
>> That's right. >> good fruit in this world. It's a really it's a hard thing to say.
>> And because the eating of it leads to death.
>> Death. Yeah. Right. Meaning it doesn't carry with you into God's kingdom.
>> Yes. That's the death we're talking We're not talking about like you go to hell and we're talking about it doesn't Yeah, it's limited here.
>> Yeah. So, that's why we always say it's a great church. If you want a church, be a Mormon.
>> Yeah. You can't care about God.
>> Yeah. Not really.
>> Because if you want a church, church is of this world. That's like the whole
>> That's exactly right.
>> Okay. All right.
>> So, but the Mormon church is a really specific one cuz they're so um from the ground up based on holy lust. They're they're seeing the fall as a good thing, like we've been talking about. So, that's why it's one to like observe more than others with their doctrine and stuff.
>> Um Okay. So, we've been talking about lust and the justifications of it in DNC 132, which we read entirely. Was that the last episode or the one before that?
>> before. And the practice of men taking numerous wives in that uh text to the sexual lust that permeates the minds of its members, in the previous episode, and all under the auspices of good.
>> Yeah. So. So, take a look at the We want to show you what they present. And let me tell you something, what we're about to show you is the it's like almost unbelievable how inviting and light and good it looks. And this is straight from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. All that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes, pride of life is not of the Father, but is of this world. Take a look.
>> [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music]
>> That last shot is the scariest thing I've ever seen. They use him. He's a tool. Okay, this is the fruit of Mormonism, what we just watched. It's appears to be very good, like we just said. I I don't know one person with their logic that would look at that and not say, "That's really good. [laughter] That's nice." With their logic, you know.
>> people would look at it and go, "That's just evil?" I know one. You look insane when you say that. It's the most diabolical video I've ever seen in my life, cuz it is.
>> You need eyes to see through it, guys. It's a That was >> Pretty good counterfeit, I would say. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so we did the DNC, we did the lust of men in the last episode. So, what's next?
>> Okay, tonight let's explore more of the fruit of this counterfeit that came from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, and it's a tree that blooms right in the heart of downtown Salt Lake City. So, in addition to plural marriage and sexual lust molding up through the crevices of the LDS ward and stakes, the LDS church also has, and we're just going to go through some highlights on these things, a history of violence. Mhm. Yeah. Um here's the important thing about this history. It's not how Yeshua taught his disciples. Um which for some reason Christians don't seem to understand, Christians or Mormons. Um proving again that Mormonism is a religion of this world and not of the Father, because it's not what Yeshua taught. It's not what the disciples taught, either. This is something real followers of Christ have to realize about their own churches um and the ideas today, especially in things like Christian nationalism, in my opinion.
>> And it's not just your opinion, Delanie, because if we look, this is the thing we had a caller call in on the show last Sunday, and I lost my ang- I got angry again. Delanie calmed it down, but bottom line, people are using Jesus for things that he was never about, and they think he was. Yeah, and on that call, just as a side, he said it doesn't have to be that Jesus was about it. Right.
>> He was playing about that.
>> Right. It's just from the logical argument that Mormons use themselves that it's good. Why wouldn't you It's just like a an abstraction Yeah, an extension of if you believe in what Yeshua did, you would do all these good things. You would want your nation to be Christian. You don't And so, they don't That one thing is they don't even care that Yeshua didn't say it, but you can't call it Christian.
>> No way. >> call it Christian.
>> No way. So, um let's talk about I I think Am I ready to go on? Let's talk about the history of the LDS and violence. And uh this stuff is historical, not making it up. It begins with a group of selected men called the Danites. And during the 1838 Mormon War in Missouri, a vigilante group known as the Danites, the Sons of Dan, was formed, and it was reportedly with the knowledge of early church leaders. Their purpose to intimidate and drive out apostates and enemies of the church. So, they were militant in using the arm of the flesh to fight for their rights. They were described as a secret para- paramilitary group that engaged in threats and raids and alleged violence against non-Mormons and dissenters um of Mormonism in Missouri. And while Mormon history often distances itself from them, that Mormon history does anything it can to try to sanitize itself. They represent a secret police that operated under the pretext of defending the church, and it resulted in fear and conflict. There's plenty of pride within the LDS faithful for this violent arm of the early church. I mean, they really love the fact we had Danites. I'm talking about the true LDS ones, not these phony kids online trying to I'm not talking about real They love the Danite idea, and it's like like pro-violence in the name of God. It's the basis for theocracy. Yeah.
>> So, then there was the Nauvoo Legion, and that was a prominent 19th century state-authorized militia 1841 to 1845 in Illinois and 1849 to 1870 in Utah, and it was created to protect, ready? To protect members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints from persecution. So, just in that sense, what did Yeshua say if you're persecuted? He said, "Blessed turn the other cheek. Yeah. Suffer.
>> Suffer. It's suffer. Right.
>> It's like the clearest message of Yeshua. It's not even like obscure translation issue. It's clear.
>> Right. It's clear. Not only in that, it's also clear in uh "Revengeance Vengeance is mine, saith the Lord." Like It's totally against what the Christian ethic is, and the Christian um nationalist today are against it, too. Fully against it. It was led by Joseph Smith, later Brigham Young. The militia was used for defense, local law enforcement. And in 1857, skirmishes with the US troops during the Utah War. So, the Mormon church had troops that even the the the Nauvoo Legion fought against the US government troops. So, they are not what you think at their root.
>> Can I ask, do the Do the LDS then or now call these efforts um like a a the also an extension, like not part of the Mormons, like how they call that fundamentalist Mormons are not the true Mormons?
>> No, but they say it was for a time and place, you know, the nation was developing, and there's all these things, and so it was common and and I think they might be right.
>> Now they say that, but then
>> Oh, then they thought it was just This was Mormonism. These weren't like extensions of Mormonism.
>> was Mormonism, full-blown. Yeah. And that attitude continues on today, as we're going to discover later. Uh, and So, at its height in Illinois, the legion boasted about 2,500 soldiers or members, and was renowned for its structure, cavalry, infantry, and it was considered one of the largest militias in the US at the time. Additionally, Joseph Smith served as the first lieutenant general, followed by Brigham Young and Daniel H. Wells Wells here in Utah in 1857. The legion, acting as the Utah territorial territorial militia. You hear of militias? Right there, Mormonism had a huge militia. I believe this is going to draw the more radically inclined people, as the nation gets worse and worse, to kind of sidle up with the Mormon idea of militias, and it's going to return in some effort behind this worldly empire.
>> nationalism is about teaming up with whatever your agenda is. It has nothing to do with teaming up over Christ.
>> Nothing. And we defend our Messiah. We stand with him. We don't stand with this phony religion.
>> [snorts] >> And so, anyway, they tried to stop invading US troops from coming into Utah. Wow. Yeah. And you can like hear the logic of people today in in this. Just like, "Why wouldn't I? Why wouldn't we do that?"
>> We heard it last week.
>> Yeah. Why wouldn't we go after um Muslims who are killing Christians?
>> Yeah. You know. Well, because Jesus said not to.
>> [laughter] >> I don't know what to say.
>> They'll I I think what really is proven is that the logic and the rationale of Yeshua is not of this world.
>> Yeah. Like it does not function on the way that our human instinct does.
>> Right. And Christians and Mormons have gotten that mistaken. You mistake your instinct for he's given us the That's right. This is how we should act.
>> Right. Now, let me ask you, according to what we know about um the garden and what God told man to do, does man have the right to govern this world in these different ways?
>> Yeah, that's the It just is that that's a worldly thing.
>> That's right. >> To say it's the Christian thing
>> Right. And that's what we're really trying to make clear here as Yeshua's. We're trying to say we understand there's a spirit of man, and men and women have the right to govern themselves here on this earth. But when they say this is of God and God wants this, we say, "Do not do that." That's not fair. It's not fair to people who differ with you on these earthly decisions, and we are really frankly sick of it. That the name of our God and our Lord is being used by people for their agendas. It makes me sick. Oh, man. Okay, it seems like there are there are more examples. There are. That Mormon Battalion, do you remember that one? Let me talk about that. Sure. Yeah, there are about 500 members and they were pro US Army during the Mexican-American War. They marched about 2,000 miles from Iowa to San Diego. The Mormons hold that up as an example of them being patriotic. So, you know, but it was a militia and with these groups um the through the foundational threads of Mormonism, the next violent offense should not surprise anybody and that's known as the Mountain Meadows Massacre. Right? Have you heard much about that in your growing up? That's the one I've heard about. You You refer to that because it it you almost assign it to the spirit of the state.
>> I do. I do. That's That's me, but bottom line, I believe that blood shed blood of innocents does something to empower world powers. I think the fact that we just saw that video from the Mormon Church was empowered by them killing, literally lining men, women, children up and assassinating them um in Southern Utah. Uh, this was a this was an innocent party just traveling through and people try to say that Brigham Young didn't know anything about it and all that stuff. All we know is the LDS did it and it has ordained this state in the blood of innocents. They put it all on a guy named John D. Lee who was executed in 18 um 77 and he's the only person who was held legally accountable, but I mean, right right there um that is just central to the um heartbeat of Mormonism. It's their fruit.
>> Yeah. It's and I I see whether it's a like mystical thing where the blood ordains to the power or a pragmatic thing where you have to be violent to get a system to have power in this world. Like because your a system excludes and someone's going to come fighting you and you have to fight back.
>> Right. Like that is what a system does to protect itself. Yeah, and so you know, it has to be violent. That's what we're talking through is that it gets worse and worse the bigger it is.
>> Yeah. And that's what I love about my partnership with Dell is that I come with a very metaphysical approach. She comes with a more pragmatic. I mean, it's true. If you have some system, you're going to defend it and even kill innocent people along the way. It's both I could easily be mystical. It just it's both.
>> Yeah. And then hand in hand with these violent groups and actions, there was a belief that was taught and it was present all the way up till I was a teenager in something called blood atonement. And that was where Brigham Young preached that some sins are so heinous that the sinner's blood must be shed and spilled on the ground in order for that to be atoned. And while the data on that doctrine is certainly created an atmosphere of paranoia when it was existed, the historical accounts of violent retribution against those who violated church law was absolutely present. Church law? Church law. That's right, Delaney. It is known as theocracy. Church laws, you know, we had a that that kid's in my mind. He called about the Sharia law, Sharia law. Well, you know, Mormons have their theocratic law and Calvin had his theocratic law and the Catholic Church has their theocratic law, the Vatican. It's theocracy and it's evil in my opinion. I I ask I'm so curious to know what any Christian nationalist would call that in reference to Sharia law cuz they are the same. They would say they have a they have a theocratic law and we have a theocratic law and we have the true king and ours is better, so let's go to theocratic Yeah, as the Mormons.
>> Mormons would say Brigham Young had the the correct theocratic law there.
>> So, therefore we could slay people out in the Yeah.
>> Insanity. Yeah. Ding ding ding Not not ding Delaney, ding on what you just pointed out.
>> Okay. Um Yeshua's we've renounced all theocracy. Yeah. We have a Do you agree with a clear divided line between church and state? Yeah, I mean, we've been we our family, you have been talking about this in other ways for the whole duration of the ministry.
>> Yeah. Christianity is not in any group or way of life or lifestyle or doctrine. There's no way of doing it. It's not a material thing.
>> That's right. There's no Christian music. There's no Christian art. There's no Christian clothing
>> clothing Yeah. And that's all Christianity is known for is their clothing, their art, their music.
>> Their politics.
>> Yeah. And it's it's the cart before the horse. It's the Yeah. And so now it's political and now it's literally the government is having it America reads the Bible and we're standing up like I don't know how Christians think that isn't Sharia law. I know. And and what about Christians in Vietnam reading the Bible? And I mean, what do they think will happen when we have two different countries reading the Bible, but we go to war? Yeah. I I can't I can't but they use the Old Testament. Most of them use the Old Testament as justification for this and they totally discount what Yeshua's life was relative to politics in this world. They just throw it out the window. So, it seemed we Okay, yeah. I could get into this for a long time, but we should maybe move on.
>> maybe on Sunday's calling show we'll open up with more talk about this because it's something that's pressing and then we've talked about maybe next week having a conversation all about Christian nationalism relative to what Christianity really is. Yeah, as we focus on Mormonism's violent history and criminal history today we'll we'll get into the larger umbrella for the current moment and how Mormons maybe are involved in that.
>> Excellent. Um okay, so as these Mormon settlers expanded, they were involved in violent conflicts with indigenous tribes.
>> Yeah. They don't talk much about that, do they? There was a few, the Walker War, the Black Hawk War, the 1853 Battle Creek Massacre. Um that one is where Mormon militia members killed several members of the Timpanagos Timpanagos tribe. I'm so bad.
>> Timpanagos. I got it. Timpanagos. And then the [laughter] 18 I can't. And then the uh 1866 Circleville Massacre. Um that one is where Mormon settlers murdered Paiute men, women and children. So
>> Yeah. So, I mean, we aren't supposed to murder at all and the Mormons are murdering. Yeah. Killing. And then they say at least Christians do. I'm sure they would Mormons would in these instances too would say it's in defense. And it's like, okay.
>> Yeah. You're not supposed to defend yourself either.
>> I know. You're supposed to die even. You might die for your for For your faith.
>> faith.
>> For your faith. And that's the key to what she just said, for the faith. If it's property rights, that's between you and how you are governed here on this earth, but don't tie it to God and justify murdering over property rights as a Christian. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, from these seeds watered the blood watered, excuse me, in the blood of innocents in the uh in in in the name of God, the LDS Church has a continuous thread of violence that pops up every now and again in their history. As they have become more civilized these things have faded, but they still exist. We remember Mark Hofmann back in the day blowing up people over some church artifacts. The Lafferty brothers covered by Under the Banner of Heaven by Jon Krakauer, a great book. You should read it. And other violent references to its history through men like David Mitchell and Wanda Barzee who kidnapped and repeatedly raped a young 14, I think she was, maybe younger innocent teenage Mormon girl from her house, Elizabeth Smart, in the name in the same name of all that the founders produced. That is not an aberration. And what most people don't see or realize is that if you can you can go I don't know if the sports program is still big in the Mormon Church, but every weekend when I grew up at the stake center and the ward level, you had basketball, volleyball, you had softball tournaments and they were always breaking out in fist fights in in in battles. Yeah. Everybody was always there's always going to be a fist fight or a battle on in those days. These are Christians and I would watch that and I would say, what is going on here? That's really wild. I don't know if that would happen today, to be honest. I think culturally the the kids do not fight. They're pansies. probably
>> even play basketball. They probably don't. They're playing video games or something. They I don't think, you know, they they think you're screaming at them when when you're just talking with them and it like they're very they're not as violent. But then they go out and like shoot up schools. So, they're not violent with each other, but they're angry. Or they come to with a gun and they shoot Charlie Kirk in the head, apparently. I'm sorry, this is we're not political, but here in Utah a Mormon kid comes from southern Utah with his old rifle and he takes out Charlie Kirk. And if he didn't, he at least put his face on that somehow. He was willing to somehow be a part of it.
>> All tied to the fruit of that tree, you guys. We're not making it up. Okay. Um, yeah. That is that is the list of violence.
>> Yeah. There's probably so much more. But it kind of shows the escalation and down into even just the recreational events when you were when you were a kid. It's just there. There's anger. There's a need to defend.
>> Yeah. Uh, feeling like one thing I wanted to say too when we were talking is I think there's a mistake when people say they are willing to die for their faith.
>> Mhm. And that's when they're willing to die in war for their faith. They go out to fight for the faith and it's righteous death.
>> Mhm. I see.
>> It's not righteous if you are peacemaker and get killed. Do you get what I'm saying? Like the Christians don't see being killed, they see it as weak.
>> Yeah.
>> It's weakness and they don't like weakness. So, is there something What is that? Mormons, too.
>> Same thing and it's all the flesh. It's of this world because might makes right, you know, and it's the it's the the domination of the strongest species. Yeah. And that is of this world. But in Christ, we talked about this example on the Collin show where he wasn't weak in certain times. He went in with whips into the temple. But we identify that that's not an of this world thing. It's a religious thing. Is that correct? Is that the only time that he showed strength? It's the only time he showed strength and remember they were under the law. And so that they were under a law that says if you take an eye, you give an eye. So, him doing that was not a he fulfilled the law. That was not counter to his message because he was talking to Jews at that time and they were breaking the rules of the of temple. But to use that as an example of how to be violent today as a Christian, it does not fit with the context of what he did that for and in. He said be meek and what meekness is really defined as is not weakness, but it is the willingness to respond softly to um um invasions and to um being hurt and be offended and be attacked. Meekness is not being weak, but it's strongly responding not through violence, but just through logic and reason and love. Weakness is actually violent. That's kind of the turn from, I think.
>> Okay, so amongst all the violence, there's also a slew of lies, deception and financial crimes that happened in the LDS Church, would you say? Oh, yeah. And where does that start from? It starts from the founder. The founder.
>> it does.
>> From the tree comes the fruit. From the fruit come the seed. From the seed comes more fruit and on and on and on. In 1826, Joseph Smith, 4 years before establishing the Mormon Church in 1830, when he was 20 years old, he was brought before Judge Albert Neely on March 20th and the complaint was initiated by the nephew of Josiah Stowell who feared Joseph Smith was defrauding his uncle. How? Joseph Smith went about and claimed to be able and all you need to do is read D. Michael Quinn's books on early Mormon history in the magic worldview and you'll get a volume this thick about what Joseph Smith was doing. This is just one instance.
>> Yeah. He pretended that he could see buried treasure through looking in a hat or with through a stone or through witching rods and he could determine where that buried treasure was on lands that people owned. Josiah Stowell hired him to come and find buried treasure. One thing Joseph Smith did in that con was when he would say it's here, they would dig and they wouldn't find anything, he'd say, "A demon took it and moved it over there."
>> [laughter] >> Oh my god.
>> He was such a con man. Wow.
>> From the get-go. He was charged being a disorderly person and a vagabond and and being a fortune teller claiming to be able to find tailor.
>> [laughter] >> We don't give any
>> say it. We give nothing on verbal mistakes in our family. Uh, so and then, you know, there's a whole bunch of stuff about uh, him not being guilty, but there's a whole bunch of court evidence that says Joseph Smith and guilty. So, whatever. He was that all you got even Richard Bushman in whatever book he wrote, Rough Stone Rolling, talks about it, too. All right. And then also 11 years later, Smith, he creates this church. You know, he's got people following him and uh, it he creates a bank and he he called it the anti-bank. The anti-banking system in Kirtland, Ohio.
>> Yeah, [laughter] yeah, it's like gnarly. Yeah.
>> Yeah, we're going to create the anti-bank and the unchartered bank collapsed um because of mismanagement and fraud and they they issued their own currency. Like they issued their own dollar bills and stuff.
>> Wow.
>> Which proved to be worthless and many members lost all their savings. There was great dissent in the anti-bank collapse and it prompt prompted Joseph Smith and Sidney Rigdon to flee from hostile creditors.
>> Wow.
>> All church history. You can't sweep it under the bank under the
>> [laughter] >> There's another under the carpet, you know. But bottom line, this is the root of what created the money to give us that presentation. All right.
>> Then to modern age. Partly because of high trust within the community, Mormons just look like you can trust them. Sadly, the US the Utah and the LDS community at large have historically been hotspots for what's called affinity fraud.
>> Yeah. Uh, this is where fraudsters use use um shared religious ties to exploit investors. In the '70s and '80s, LDS General Authority Paul H. Dunn involved in a scandal. Um, he was involved in a scandal involving the sale of bogus securities through a company called Navsat with some investors allegedly relying on his church status to invest.
>> And you don't know this cuz you weren't alive, but when Paul Dunn, he was a general authority for the Mormon Church and in the '70s, if Paul Dunn was coming to your stake to speak, everybody came.
>> Oh, wow. Because he was the most magnificent speaker and teller of tales.
>> Wow. >> He had stories that were just amazing. Him being a almost a pro baseball player and him getting something shot off in war and going to someone's house to tell their parents that their partner in combat had died. Tearful, emotional stories, Paul Dunn.
>> Wow.
>> And then they found out he was making it all up. And he got all most of the stories and he got demoted. He was made emeritus general authority and all of these tapes and stories that he was known for causing the Mormons to weep from the same fraudulent storytelling as Joseph Smith.
>> Wow. The interesting thing, do you know where we live downtown where we have that mural on the wall of the building down off 4th West as you park across from that big mural? That's of the Sergeant Peppers and all these things. They stuck Paul Dunn's face in there. His face is in there as a mockery of just this icon of of weirdness. It's so funny.
>> That is so funny. And the Mark Hofmann con with artifacts which sucked in the Mormon Church and caused all kinds of chaos with bombings and you can read about that in Salamander, the book. Mark Hofmann, he he conned the Mormon Church leaders and they come out looking so bad at what he did all through the same financial fraud that goes on. Yeah. It's it's like they The reality is Joseph Smith wrote the belief system and it rewards being a charismatic con man.
>> Really does.
>> Like that's that is what Mormons love. You just love it when you're a Mormon when someone can tell a story well.
>> Oh, yeah.
>> It's like the it the structure is built off of those people.
>> Hero worship of men.
>> Yeah. The testimony meaning is whose testimony is better delivered. Make you cry when you're sitting there
>> Yes, that was such a good talk. Emotions. And that's why I'm so much against emotions in the faith.
>> Yeah. You know, it's about learning facts Yeah.
>> deem as facts
>> Yes. and then going off that and forget emotions because Mormonism is all emotional.
>> Yeah. And by the way, who was it who said you don't know Hitler through facts, you know him through your feelings. Wow. And people have said they would
>> Like a proponent of him at the time.
>> like like one of his side, you know him through your feelings. And that people who are alive today have been said I saw him speak and it filled the place with electricity. He was so good at grabbing an audience.
>> Wow. And that's what they That's what Smith was. He was good at that and Paul Dunn was. And it goes in with the being able to trick people financially.
>> Yeah. That's why this place, Utah, was named the fraud capital of the United States When?
>> Oh, like in the '80s. Because the fraud was so ubiquitous based off affinity investing, which is like, "Hey, brother, I I've got a thing you should look at." Oh, okay, what is it?
>> The Mormon church could just be called affinity fraud in general. The whole thing is the whole I mean, every church, really.
>> Yeah. The because everything is about affinity. You gain a community. You have someone to help you move. You learn about what to invest in. Everything.
>> You gain from affinity with a church.
>> Yeah. You do not gain when you do it our way.
>> Yeah. To the point where someone who calls in and defends Christian nationalism cannot understand why you would do it our way. He literally asked, "What's the point?"
>> he like he stuttered. He couldn't even get it. He laughed at us. When you say and when you say the point is you you want to know God, they're like, "What?" Like it's confusing to them. So. And you know, I have long personally, and Delania has too, we really I think our family generally hates most malignant cultures. Yeah. And and they just prey upon emotions and the gullibility and the naivete of others and and on their weakness and wanting to belong. And all of this is part of that affinity that Delania is talking about. Also, the AFCO financial scandal of the 1980s, former LDS bishop was involved in that and former councilman and as recently as 2023, Michael Beasley and Jeffrey Judd, they operated a $500 million Mormon Ponzi scheme targeting members of the church in Las Vegas and Utah. Why? Because they're gullible. Look it, if you can have people who believe that their founder translated a book buried in a hill golden plates by looking into a rock, those members will buy into anything. They are gullible. They're buying into that that video the church just put out cuz if you read the comments below that, that's disturbing. I feel the spirit so strongly watching this. I know the church is true when I look at this. Eh, blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. They just are gullible. That is going to be a good episode next week as we because this is all what's feeding Christian nationalism. Like all of these rationales are what have gotten to the point where we're going to try to take over the world as a um country.
>> Yes. Because of it. We're at that level. With a mandate from God.
>> Oh my gosh. Yeah. With like completely illogical people.
>> Yeah. Like there's no Like you're saying the feeling and it's like as clear as day and that doesn't matter No.
>> to anyone following. It doesn't matter.
>> No. So. All right. Okay, let's keep going through some examples. Um, is it Should we get on to 2023 SEC charges? Uh no, we'll go up above what what we talked about the Mark Hoffman forgeries and murders. There's a massive scandal of fraud against I did mention it, but that's another one. And then in 2019, now this is bringing it more current. A guy named David Nielson, he's a former portfolio manager for the LDS owned Ensign Peak, okay? He filed a whistleblower complaint with the IRS alleging, listen to the allegation, that the church stockpiled over 100 billion billion um of funds that were used for commercial purposes including a bailout for the LDS's Beneficial Life Insurance Company and the construction of the City Creek Center Mall in Salt Lake City that made that took them from having donated assets that are supposed to be used for helping the poor and the widows and all that and they used it for building up more assets and that was what the whole lawsuit and that led to subsequent lawsuits making members seek for it to recover donations and that includes the Huntsman family that does the Huntsman Cancer Center, all Mormon well, most of them are Mormon. They came and they wanted their money back.
>> Wow.
>> Yeah, because they were caught again. And then most recently, Delania, tell us about if you want the Security and Exchange Commission charging the LDS with investment fraud. Uh they charged them and it's and its investment management firm Ensign Peak Advisors failing to disclose a portfolio that grew to approximately $32 billion. They I'm scared of not disclosing $500 that I made at a random job and they get away with that.
>> Right. To obscure the portfolio's size from public view, the church and Ensign Peak Is it Ensign or Ensign? Uh Ensign. Ensign. Peak created 13 shell companies with locations throughout the US filing form 13F in the names of these companies rather than their own. Total shell game. Yeah, that's wild. The result, the church and its investment firm paid $5 million in penalties to settle charges with the church stating that they relied on legal counsel and the regret mis- and they regret mistakes made in reporting.
>> Yeah, they put it all on their lawyers when you know good These guys are all like business moguls. Wow.
>> We didn't know. And they paid $5 million.
>> 5 mil. And so I put that note there.
>> billion. No, that's on a $32 billion fraud. They non-disclosure. Yeah.
>> Yeah, but if you look at how much they paid relative to their net worth, which is probably close to a half a trillion, Insane. that's like a millionaire being fined a thousand dollars.
>> Yeah, it it really is.
>> Yeah, that really is. Um Yeah, which means he gets to keep 999,000 of his million.
>> right.
>> [laughter] >> That's what it's akin to. They paid it and it was washed swept under the rug again.
>> Completely.
>> And the members, oh, we don't know. Yeah, yeah, yeah, because they don't give a rat's rear end about the truth. They care about it working for them in this world and calling it Jesus church and it doesn't fit. We sound like we're really brutally against the Mormon church. We are. We're against every church, every single religious institution that puts people in bondage, that lies, that does not represent who Yeshua was, who was a peacemaker, he was merciful, he was kind, he said turn the other cheek, he said my kingdom's not of this world or my servants would fight. He said all sorts of things completely ignored by religious institutions today. We cannot stand them, but we love people seeking God who are in them. Yes.
>> All right. And I would venture to say there is no group that can actually demonstrate that. It's not possible as a group cuz eventually you have to turn the other cheek and that doesn't work as a company, as a church, as a you know, it doesn't work.
>> And so what you're describing now is the difference between God says it this way. Man says it this way. Man's ways work for this world. God's ways work for the heavenly kingdom and you cannot mix them. Can't mix them. Can't mix them. Nope. All right, next week we're going to parlay off this examination of Mormon fruit and show how any and every religious institution that uses the name of Christ to engage in crime, lust, violence, or political action to theocratically try and govern the world is not and never has been part of what Christ brought to earth. In other words, we're going to address the hot growing topic where a lot of our dear friends actually and supporters are even part of. Uh, and that's this Christian nationalist movement that is a foot. It has been a foot Mhm.
>> over the centuries and we're going to learn about that and how ever since Christ had the victory, men have tried to make it a national theocracy.
>> think it's like something new or they're like part of a righteous new thing.
>> Not new. If you care about God, keep watching us. If you don't, turn the channel and leave us alone. See you later.
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