Transcription
It's been a long time since you sat down for one of these.
Yeah, it's been a minute.
What have you been up to?
Wow. Everything. A lot. Most people go through their things, you know, very privately.
You took it on tour?
Live every night. It was, it was so healing.
I'm Jay-Z, respectfully. For, like, for what? Hope to what end?
How would you rate your 2025? Like looking back on the last year, it was hard. Really hard. I was like heartbroken.
Really?
Yeah. I'm glad we got right to that, you know, so we could just get that out the way.
Okay.
Like I was really heartbroken by, like, everything that occurred.
Mhm. You know, with all, like, you know, we in a space now where it's just like almost like consequence is not thought about enough. So, everything is so instant. You know what I'm saying? And like that whole Busby, the civil lawsuit that was dropped, dismissed, that took a lot out of me. I was angry. I haven't been that angry in a long time. Uncontrollable anger. Like, you don't put that on someone. Like that's a, that's a thing that you better be super sure. It used to be like that. Like you have to be super sure before you put those kind of things on a person.
Let's see. A person like me. Like even when we were doing worse things, we were doing bad. We had those kind of rules. There was a line. No women, no kids. You know, you, you hear those sayings, but those are things that I took from the street. You know, morals, integrity, code, code. Those things I took because, because we, we, we lived and died by that. So, it's strict for me. Like, it meant a lot to me. I took that really hard and I, and I knew that we was going to walk through that.
Mhm.
We was going to walk through that because, you know, it's first of all, it's not true. And the truth is, you know, at the end of the day, it still, it still reigns supreme.
When you're feeling these feelings, how do you then bounce back and get back to being Jay-Z?
I don't know. I'm just, we just, I'm just, this is, this is the first thing I'm, I'm doing. Actually.
It was just like, "All right, man. We played enough defense. 2026 is all offense." When we first dropped Reasonable Doubt, we sold 34,000 records. We went like at MTV like, "Give us a performance in the last slot."
Yeah.
And they were like, "What? You don't even have a video that we played." They ain't say these words, but you know what I'm saying? The energy was like, "You're new."
Yeah.
Like, you, you haven't proven yourself. But in our mind, the fact that we released an album was proof enough of concept. We did it. That was hard. Then we remember, we're, we're not in control of distribution, marketing, anything. We're going like a street level, street team approach to this. And so when we put the album out, that was the win.
Yeah.
And when we had some success and, and remember on the streets, we were platinum. Anywhere you was going to go, you was going to hear Reasonable Doubt.
Did you feel that way at the time though?
No. No. At the time, I wanted a deal. That's why I went every single label. Huh.
Did you feel like dejected or?
I wasn't. Yes. I was, I was rejected, not dejected.
Okay.
And you know what I mean? Like every door was, but I, I, I always believed in myself.
Yeah.
It wasn't a moment that I thought, "I'm not good enough for this industry."
Mhm.
At every rejection, I thought, "Why do they have this guy in place? He doesn't know what's going on."
Like they're slacking.
They're not seeing the vision.
When you look back at that time, are there things that you're glad that you didn't know?
Yeah, of course. It's almost like if you're in a room and you go through this room and you get to the end and you open the door and you're like, "Wow." And then you turn back and they turn the lights off and it was like pits and snakes, you know, your naive nature just naturally navigated you through the dark. And that's made up for the things that we didn't know. And it helps because you can learn something so much that you just tap out. I think that happens a lot in the music business. Like people get in the music business for the right reasons and they're very passionate about it, but then it becomes Monday.
It reminds me of an old Kanye quote of something he said about you. When he said, "With Jay, you always see the win." What do you think he meant by that?
I think that showed the entire picture. From "You Must Love Me" to "Regret" to, you know, "Soon You'll Understand." But the wins are so big that I can see where that can dominate a person's memory. You forget the losses.
Yeah.
Or the perception.
Yeah. Or that becomes the perception that it's only wins. And then I do say, "I will not lose."
Well, I could add to the perception as well.
I was going to say, you also are really good at kind of like, you have a discipline of almost like shrugging off any kind of perception of a loss. Like, yeah. What's the Nets' record? 82? I'll look at you like it's gravy, like, you know.
Yeah. Because it's all wins. If I had 0.001 of the Nets, I won. Or it's like I had ownership in a basketball team in Brooklyn.
Is that something you continue to apply? Like?
Yeah. When, God forbid, something goes wrong. Yeah.
Don't freak out. We can, we can.
It's not even "God forbid" when something goes wrong. Something goes wrong. Everything in life happens for your greatest good.
Mhm.
Everything. I had to not get a deal in order to become who I am today. It didn't feel like the greatest blessing of all. It was the greatest blessing that I didn't get a deal. Right. So again, everything in your life, it's not happening to you, it's happening for you.
When you don't skip over that.
Yeah.
It's not happening to you. It's happening for you.
You just got to know the distinction. Everything is just how you relate to it. There's no good or bad. It happens. It's life.
When did you reach that acceptance of that concept though?
I read a lot of books early. "Seed of the Soul," "The Celestine Prophecy," and, you know, all these different books. And I was picking up all these gems and jewels on the way. But I was also 26 when I came in, and I lived a lot of life for in those 26 years. Marcy to Trenton, New Jersey to Cambridge, Maryland to Newport News, Virginia. I met all sorts of people, been in all sorts of situations. And I came out without a scratch. Never been to jail. Three shots never touched me. Three shots never touched me. I've never been, I came out unscathed. It's very rare. And I was always curious after that. Once you reach that part, like, I've had the living and now I'm like, "Man, why did that happen?" I'm always questioned like, "Why did that happen? Why did it happen that way?"
I want to ask you just a little bit about "A Written Testimony," specifically, just because that was the most recent release. I think it came out like right before the pandemic started. So you guys that the day?
Yeah. My favorite verse is off that "Just Drum Jumbled" track. I love that track. It's so noisy and just so unorthodox. Oh, "Flux Capacitor." "Flux Capacitor."
You know what's funny about that? So, I, I don't know if you remember this. You and I were emailing about that because I wrote about that album and I said, "This verse is crazy, even if it's offbeat."
Yeah.
And you said, "That being offbeat was the point, champ." And I was like, "Well, what can I say to that?"
Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes you need to sit in the, in the, in the pocket. 'Cause my, my pocket is always, it's like with a foot over the, over the thing anyway. It's always hanging to the last moment. And then it's like, uh, 'cause sometimes I try to fit a lot of words into like a small space, then that last word just like, just like, "Get in the door."
Sticking with "A Written Testimony," you have a couple verses on there that I really like because they kind of speak to what's going on with you in a broader sense and the culture. Like on "Universal Soldier," I think it is, when you said that, "You don't keep the same energy for the Dupants and the Carnegies."
Yeah.
So I wanted you to talk a little bit about this idea of like, like you said earlier, like the things that you do for the culture, the ways that you put on, the ways that you try to protect and move forward, but kind of the pushback that you get sometimes about like, uh, people throw "capitalist" at you in a derogatory sense.
Yeah. I think in that verse specifically, only thing I heard coming up was the American dream. Until we started being successful, and it was like, "Wait a minute, you're selling out because you're making money." That was the first thing that was put on musicians. People had just a law for the struggling artist. That's a mind game. What we would call back in the day for technology. It was like, "No, I'm not going for that." Like, "No, no, I make art first, and then I make sure that I'm compensated for my art. I'm, I didn't take advantage. I didn't, I didn't get here by taking advantage of people. I ain't take no one. No one. That's not my reputation. That's not what I do. I didn't get here by taking advantage of people or taking advantage of, you know, the loopholes in the system or some wrinkle in the, like a capitalist structure. That structure exists, you know, and I just see the world for what it is, not for what I want it to be. I'm a realist, not, not ideal. It's not idealistic. People speak about the world how they want to see it. You're never going to win like that."
You said something just now though about, um, you pushing independence, right? Kind of like in the spirit of Prince. When you embody that, do you feel like you are kind of setting a mold or leading a charge for like what the successful black man is allowed to do and like breaking, breaking these spaces, breaking these confines?
Yeah. I even want you to take that out of your vocabulary.
Take what?
Allowed. You know what I'm saying? We're not allowed to do anything. You know, in order for someone to allow you, they have to have authority over you. No one has authority over us. We, we exist like everyone else here. No one can allow us to do anything.
And but that question comes, that word comes from a real space, and I want to eliminate all those type of words for us.
Yes. So the answer to that is yes.
When you're on a mission to eliminate words like "allow," like you said, do you feel like that makes you a target sometimes from from?
Oh, yeah. For sure. For sure. 100%.
What's the, what's the Nipsy thing? "Pray for me, y'all. One day I'm going to have to pay for these thoughts." Real is extinct. It ain't safe for me, my dog. That these are real lyrics. These are.
You've come back to that a lot in the last few years. Like, "The more I reveal me, the more they will kill me." Stuff like that. Who, when you say "they," like, who is that?
Whatever the threat to, however the system is set up to to keep things at status quo and keep us in a position of using words like "allow."
Mhm.
So anyone that that's culpable in creating the system that we operate under, that's "they."
Yeah.
That's "they." And it actually goes beyond color.
Yeah.
'Cause I've encountered that a lot. I've encountered that a lot where it was just like, "Okay, this successful black man make it. Let me go to him."
Yeah.
And for help. And they're like, "You don't with no rap shit."
Oh, wow.
Not like out like that, but, you know, that's the energy.
Like the energy. It's like you, you see the energy.
Yeah. You know.
I was thinking about how you described last year as being angry and for the first time in a while. I wondered what it felt like to be pulled back into that feeling and how you pulled yourself out or how you leaned on the people around you.
Yeah. Been saying to pull you back.
Yeah.
I needed the people around me more than ever because usually when I have that feeling, I would just make music and just be therapeutic. I'll be able to.
You'd blow it out.
Yeah. And I would be like, you know, I move on. I had to sit in that. Yeah. For a long time. And luckily I had that. And right again, I've built this, uh, this circle that's really safe for me of people that really love me, not using me, and like, you know, really care for my best interest. So I was able to have that in the time, you know, the most crucial time for me.
Yeah.
Especially people that were close to me. And I'll explain. So like, you know, when those type of things happen, people run. They don't care what happened.
They don't care. He's like, "Save yourself."
Yeah.
You know, so I have partners, you know, I've had big deals with. I called my guy from Melvin Mage, "Hey man, this is coming and I can't get rid of it. I can't take a settlement."
Yeah.
"It ain't in my DNA."
First, first of all, for first, I had to tell my wife. Let's back up.
Yeah.
Like, it ain't even in me. I can't. I couldn't do. I know what this is gonna, the weight that this is going to bring on our family. I can't do it. The makeup, my, my, I would, I would die. It would have been cheaper.
Yes.
Cheaper, quicker.
Move on with your life. It was like a testament because people know me.
Like I know who you are and that's impossible.
And not only, not only, we standing by you, but what do you need?
Yeah.
What did you kind of do to to come back from that personally or emotionally, I guess?
I'm still working with that. That's a great question. I'm still dealing with that.
What was it like watching Blue, um, come into her own even more in this on this most recent tour?
That was amazing. You know, 'cause on the first tour, um, you know, there was like a lot of like, you know, conversation around her first performance, and she worked really hard to get to that point, but she still wasn't going for it. She still was like going through the motions. And then after that, she just start going for it. Like she start fighting back. I saw her fight maybe for the first time in her life, like fighting back. You know, like not everything is just given to her and everything is easy. She had to fight for that and she fought for it. Then to see her do the amount of work. She's almost on every number.
Yeah.
I had to take her off physically, or something, number like, "Man, you can't be on that stage." Where she's singing, you know, six in heels. You crazy? That's never going to happen. You know, like it was like that. It wasn't, it was like a fight. She wanted to dance every single number. And that's a lot of, um, you know, choreography to remember.
Mhm.
She was 13 at the time. That's a lot. And she was nailing it. She was going crazy.
That's what's up.
Yeah. Yeah. That Blue is a crazy pianist.
But she won't let us get her like a, a teacher. She don't want to be mentored in that way 'cause she wants it to feel just like fun. She don't want it to be a job. But when she, she, she has a perfect, perfect pitch. Anything. If she hears a song, she'll be like, "Play it again. Play it again." And then she'll play it.
Oh, wow.
Like she'll teach herself. She'll find the notes and then she, she's off playing it. That's just talent. 'Cause we tell her like, you know, "That's not normal, right?" And she's just like, "No, I just don't want to. I just want to play. I enjoy playing. Let me just play." So, she doesn't work at that.
This was, she worked at this, you know, and, uh, you know, it makes me proud that that she fought for something that she really wanted to do.
I don't think we going to be able to get off that stage now. I don't know.
You pop out like when you want to. You record when you want to, like you're not in that, like, that structure.
Yeah. I think "4:44" released a lot. Although it's the hardest album for me to make.
Mhm.
Still hard to. I can't even listen to "4:44" because it's so, it's the album that I was always afraid to make. You know what I mean? Like, you think about like, "Man, I want to make an album like this, just like pure and just like vulnerable and just like the real interior thoughts."
Mhm.
You know, not, not like, you know, this Superman, like this mythical figure.
So, it's interesting for you to like pinpoint that 'cause like we were saying earlier, the last time you did one of these like kind of real sit-downs was around "4:44" when that had like just happened and just come out. So, I'm curious now like what it's like that it's been some time since that and how you've kind of evolved with those changes and and going through that door. Like you said.
I'm super proud of the work that I've done and put in and to be able to do that in front of the whole world.
Yeah.
Like, most people, you know, they, they get to, you know, go through their things, you know, very privately, right?
You took it on tour?
Live every night. It was, it was, it was so healing. "4:44" to like, "Everything Is Love." That's a real chapter in life that, uh, that, uh, you know, it got recorded.
"Everything Is Love." You're rapping like, really like there's some, some crazy verses on there where you're just like flowing nuts. Like.
Yeah.
"Friends" and, um, "Nice," you know, like.
Yeah. Thank you. And I'm a fan of, uh, my wife's creativity. She's a monster in the studio. She can hear like a sound off of like a drum eight months prior and be like, "What happened to that drum that was, remember that song we like?" No. And she'll pull out the a drum sound that's like needed for that moment. You know what I mean? Like, she's a great producer. So when you around that type of talent, it's just like, again, you know, you in that type of energy, you know, people bringing music and you know, you just, it's just a vibe. So those verses were just crafted because we was just having a good time.
It feels like you and her are in a real creative zone too right now. Like, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think like the last couple albums she's put out, I've noticed your name in the liner notes a lot too. Like I can kind of picture you like in the studio flowing, like "Unicorn is the uniform you put on."
Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, again, it's that, it's that energy. Like I know what she's trying to accomplish and anything that I can contribute. I mean, my family first of, you know, I thought it was super important and a challenge and and fun to be in the in the room.
Does that give you some of your own creative spark to to get back to your own zone and and get the pen out?
It's actually does the opposite, really. I'm actually fulfilled in that space. You know what I mean? Just just to be like, you know, a small cog in that wheel. I'm getting out that creativity. But again, I was just so like heavy and I don't know how to make music that's not reflective of how I'm feeling at the moment. It would have been, um, fiery, but I don't know. I don't know if it done more harm than good. You know what I'm saying? Like, I don't know because, you know, I have a lot of like scratch ideas and they like, all bad. I got to be honest. They're bad. It's just like, all bad.
The streets really wanted you on that Clips album.
Yeah, I was close. I was close. But I think if I, if I think that the first thing that I say, it has to be said from me. You can't be like.
I don't want to be so rigid with it though. So I'm, I'm, I'mma keep that open. I'm going to take that back. But at that moment, at that moment, I was like, "Yeah, I want to do something, but in order for me to move forward, I got to get this out. I got to get it out."
When we're talking about putting on for the culture, what does it mean to you to be at the helm of a cultural event so important as the Super Bowl?
I think everyone should, should, uh, experience music in its totality. And for a lot of years, it was only one side of music that was being represented.
Yeah.
And, um, we got the opportunity to, to create a more balanced idea of what popular music is today.
Yeah.
I'm not going out on a limb. It's just the most famous people in the world. Statistically supported. It's like, I'm not, I'm not like, I didn't pick like the indie artist that I really like from Portland. The number one streamed artist in the world.
Him.
It's crazy that I think last year was still like the first solo rap act, which is crazy to say that last year was that. Was that a hard one to get across the board?
Not without conversations that was like dated.
Yeah.
You know what I mean? Like you said, the stats show Kendrick broke the audience record. Y. It's not, uh, rocket science. It's like the, this is the music of our time and it should be represented on the biggest stage because these are some of the, I'm not saying they the only artists, right? Obviously other artists would be offended.
Yeah. Yeah.
But I think that was the right choice.
As a rapper first and foremost, and being one of the pillars of contemporary rap, I would have to imagine that you got a special kick out of watching that show though, in particular.
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah. Um, and I thought it was brave. I thought, I thought what he did was brave and it speaks to who he is as a, as a, as a performer.
He could have made it a little easy on himself.
Just aesthetically and like what the.
No, no, no. Aesthetically, it was beautiful. It was flawless. The artistic choice to play the new album, the new album was was a choice. And brave in front of that big of an audience. 'Cause even if 10 million people know some of these songs, it's 120 million people. That's like, "What is he doing?" And as an artist to stand up there and do it and and complete your vision was like, I had to, I had to tip my hat. Like I have high respect for him already, but like even more my respect was like, he really, he's really about what he say he's about.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I have to ask you this only as a participant. And.
You don't have to, you don't have to give a disclaimer first.
Well, I'm just saying as, but as someone who was part of probably the genre's biggest rap beef.
Well, until now.
As a spectator.
What did you think of the 2024 back and forth between him and Drake?
I'm going to have an answer you're not going to like.
Okay.
Well, I don't know if you're going to like that's that's presumptuous. Um, I think that, look, there was four pillars of hip-hop. There are four pillars of hip-hop, right?
Break dancing.
Yep.
And it's graffiti.
Yep.
There's DJing and battling.
Yep.
Break dance is not at the forefront of rap anymore. It's actually an Olympics sport. That's dead. Um, uh, graffiti. Beautiful, you know, in certain places and even in like, you know, major art and like, uh, Keith Haring.
Yeah. Yeah.
And Basquiat, actually a street artist.
Yeah.
Took it to a next level. It's not part of hip-hop. DJing. The DJ was in the forefront. It was Jazzy Jeff and the Fresh Prince, right?
Yeah.
Eric B. and Rakim.
Yeah.
You don't even know the DJ for half of the artists anymore. Who's Drake's DJ?
I have no idea.
Okay.
Couldn't tell you off top.
That no longer exists. And the last pillar is battling. We love the excitement and I love the the the sparring and the music you get. But in this day and age, it's so much negative stuff that comes with it. They almost wish it didn't happen.
Really?
Yeah. Because it's, it's not, it's almost like it's a final thing now. People that like Kendrick hate Drake.
Yeah.
No matter what he makes, no matter what he says. And it goes far, too. It's like attack on his character and his thing and his, and it's like, I don't know if I love that.
Yeah.
I don't know if it's helpful to our growth.
Where the fallout lands.
Mhm.
Especially on like, you know, on social media, which takes place every day.
Yeah.
And now you have these pods of cult.
The stand armies fight.
Yeah.
And it's like, it's too far.
Yeah.
It's like bringing people's kids into it and it's like, I don't, I don't like that, you know. Maybe I've grown in a space that is probably, you know, I sound like the old guy wagging the thing, but I think we can achieve the same thing as far as like sparring with music with collaborations more so than breaking the whole thing apart.
Yeah.
It could stand it before because there was no social media and there was no thing and you know, you had the battle, it was fun and then you moved on.
Right.
Right. Now I don't know if it could stand it with the technology that we have.
'Cause it takes up so much oxygen.
It takes up so much oxygen. And now it's just like, every day they're just trying to.
They're still talking about it.
Not just talking about it. Not like, "Yo, this song I like." No, it's like trying to tear down people's lives.
Yeah. Yeah.
It's like trying to, you know, wreck this guy's marriage or this guy's relationship with his child. And it's like, I don't know, man. I don't, I don't know if it's worth it at this at at at this point.
Yeah.
I don't know.
That's interesting.
Again, I love the idea that we got so much music in such a short period of time.
Great music.
Just everything around it was just like, man, it's, it's like taking us a couple steps back.
Yeah.
And we, we, we just grown so much that I don't know if, I guess I'm going to say it. I don't know if battling needs to be part of the culture anymore.
Interesting.
I hate that I have this point of view. I do. 'Cause I know what it, I know what it sounds like. I know what it feels like. I hate it. It's just how I feel about.
Well, it even kind of extended to you, right? 'Cause people made it a personal thing that you chose Kendrick for the Super Bowl. It's like, "Oh man, he's choosing the side and he's putting and he's not."
Like, like I don't have what I have to do with that. I chose the guy that was having a monster year.
I think it was the right choice.
It wasn't in, in some sort of alliance to a battle. I don't.
Yeah.
What I care about them two guys battling. What's that got to do with me? Have at it. Have fun.
Um, it's almost like not just me, by the way. They drag everybody into it. Like everyone's part of this conspiracy to, um, undermine, um, um, Drake, I guess. But like, what the? Like what? I'm Jay-Z, respectfully. Or, due respect to him, I'm Hov, respectfully. Right? Like for what? For to what end?
Yeah.
It couldn't be that these guys just don't like each other.
Yeah.
And I think they haven't liked each other for a long time.
Before you had anything to do with it?
For a while. I think this has been brewing, just like me and Nas was brewing.
Yeah.
It didn't, it didn't happen at the Summer Jam. It happened, the Lexicon TV sets, the minimum, whatever. It was, it was a whole bunch of stuff leading up to that point.
Mythleak. What is it? The Mythleak slugs in your hat, right?
Slugs in your hat. It was a bunch of like little things that led up to that point. And then when it happened, it happened. I actually regret that 'cause I really like Nas. He's a really nice guy. But also to your point, like I remember I was like 10 or 11 when that happened. I was like.
Bigger side.
Well, I was on your side.
Yeah. Yeah. I could clearly.
But my, my, my position was, I can't go out and buy "Stompic" or ask my parents to buy "Stompic," but I'm going to borrow it and burn it because I can't deny what might, you know, like.
I want to hear it, but I ain't supporting them.
Yeah. So it's almost kind of like fostering the same independence that you carry versus like.
Right back to the beginning.
Just being like, "Signed to you're signed to me."
Yeah.
And we're going to curate your career in this sort of sort of way.
Yeah.
You know, I never was comfortable with that anyway. With being an artist, expression should be their expression.
I really fall back. That's, I think what happened with Cole. Like, just the narrative around Cole is that we, that we didn't love Cole. No, we believed in him enough to let him find his journey.
Yeah.
And he found his path. It took him a minute.
Yeah. Yeah.
But he, he found his way.
Was that something that you had to learn yourself though, too? 'Cause he, 'cause Cole will tell the story about how like you wanted to sit him with Stargate and maybe think about that single.
Yeah. I was giving him a chance to take his talent and show it to the most people possible.
Yeah.
But his way. I didn't, I didn't force. It's like, "Here's this record from Stargate," and you putting it out. Like, "I forced Bleak to make 'Men in Black'." Like, no.
I mean, I think that works.
My little brother, but he has to listen to me. You know what I mean? But like for J. Cole, he has to find his own direction and I'm going to give him the tools.
Yeah.
I mean, we made big records with Stargate. They made humongous records on Rihanna and blah, blah, blah. And even, I think they made the Wiz Khalifa "Black and Yellow."
Yep. Yeah.
Biggest songs in the world, you know. You don't want to go.
Fine. All right.
You know, so I'mma present that, but I'm not going to make them do it.
Yeah. What is your relationship with Cole like these days?
Obviously, there's things behind the scenes with, you know, like, like, uh, you know, audits and like that that gets complicated. But I think, um, given the chance to to prove that you, you're above board is an opportunity.
Right.
So I don't, I don't have any, I don't have any negative feelings for him. I'm actually super proud of him and what he's done.
It sounds like you're still like, when you came in, we were talking about the mixtape like you're still engaging with the work as a fan too.
Yeah. Clue sent it to me actually. Oh.
Not, not Cole sent it to. Yeah, he sent it to me. Uh, 'cause he's proud, right? Think about Clue like he have like a resurgence behind it.
Yeah. I want to go back to this idea we were talking about about, um, just doing things the right way, even when that comes to like attaining wealth and continuing to amass wealth. We're talking about besides one of your illest lines to me is "Face to the ceiling, heaven on earth, will his wings still fit him?" So, like, what's the answer to that question? Is it a constant struggle to maintain?
Your morality defines who you are.
Right. Not, not what you've attained. It's not a dollar amount that changes you.
Yeah.
And if so, what is that dollar amount?
Mhm.
When does it start? Is it 100,000? Is it 150? Like, at what point if it's, if it's a cutoff? If it's like, "All, all millionaires are bad."
Yeah.
Okay. So at 999,000 I'm good. It can't be that way, right? It doesn't make any sense. The system is set up against me, against us. But I'm talking about my specific struggle. Everything was against me. My talent, not taking advantage of people, not taking advantage of a system, not creating tax loopholes, not just taking from other people. No, no. My talent pushed against all the headwind. And with that success, I've done things with my reach that I wanted to do that was helpful for a lot of people.
Yeah.
And with the system that we have, what are you going to do? Um, 'cause I don't, I don't believe in that, that the idea that someone has a certain amount of money is it, it defines their personality.
Mhm.
So when you have like an example like that versus like the kind of, I would say commonplace public perception that someone would say, "All billionaires are bad" or "No one should have a billion dollars." Like.
What's the tension in that?
I got to give you the honest answer.
Please.
There's no tension.
Yeah.
I don't give a what. You could believe what you want to believe.
Right.
You know, and people behave the way they want to behave. You was who you was before you got here.
Was who you was before you got here. That's the makeup of your person. You're going to believe what you're going to believe and you're going to behave the way you behave.
You're looking at a year that you defined to me as as all offense. And you know, you said that you made scratches and they sounded kind of like fiery and maybe not anything you wanted to put out. So it made me wonder like, what are the hallmarks of a great Jay-Z album right now? Like, what are you trying to put out there that you would want to put out there?
I don't know yet. I don't know. I don't know. But I know that the, we have enough negativity currently.
Mhm.
Yeah.
I don't know what, what I need to create currently that's going to like fulfill me. Okay. And make me happy 'cause that's what that's most important.
Yeah.
Right. And and whatever that feeling is, you know, will vibrate and like, you know, touch people in a way with it honesty. And maybe I'm overthinking it. Maybe I'm stopping myself from just creating. Trying to create something that people like.
Yeah.
Is where I think a lot of artists get jammed up.
Right. Right. Right.
You know, overthinking it.
Yeah.
They, no, they just try to make.
Or reverse engineer it.
Yeah.
Yeah. Or like, you know, they love the feeling of that white hot feeling of when they was, uh, you, it, it felt new.
Yeah.
And that newness trying to create that is where they get jammed up because you ain't, you ain't, you don't know slang and you don't. It's sad. It's like, it's cringy. Like, "No, don't do that."
Yeah.
You know what I mean? Make, make your type of music because you ain't doing what you saying you're doing. I'm not doing the same thing I was doing in '96. So, me to make that, any type of music that approaches that would be embarrassing because it's not authentic.
Mhm.
Just got to make something timeless that I really love and that's really honest and true to, yeah. Who I am.
You once said to the Russian billionaire that you were doing business with, I think with the Nets or Barclays, male.
Uhhuh.
And you were saying how, um, he showed you that like you both stayed at the same hotel and you were on one floor and you thought you were staying on the highest floor, and then he revealed that there was an even higher floor that he stayed on.
Mhm.
And that lesson to you was that you, there's always a higher floor to climb. So I wanted to check back in and see if you still feel that way. Like, do you feel like you've reached the highest floor? There's still floors to climb and what the next however many years looks for you.
Yeah, they have more sto. 'Cause I thought the build, the highest floor in the building was the end of it, right? The next, the next step is like owning the building.
No, you're staying at my hotel. I think in that way, if we just stay childlike and stay curious, um, there's always going to be another level.