Transcription
Well, my goodness, what a response to Henry Noak's murder. And the more details that come out about this, the more I am shocked, maybe not surprised, but absolutely shocked about how this was handled. And it's opened up so many questions. Questions on levels of policing. Does the fish rot from the head down? As Nigel Farage said in his very strong statements, should we ban the Kipan, which is the seek ceremonial knife that was used to murder Henry Noak on that now fateful night? Well, I've got a panel of real experts on this. I've got Akmed Yakub who joins us. He's a barrista and he's also somewhat of a politician in his area. Peter Blexley of course who is sort of the god of all things on policing and crime and served for many decades in the Met police and Harmon Singh who is really a spokesperson for the seat community a leader within that community and also owner of the infamous Rangres restaurant. Welcome everyone.
>> Thank you for having us. Good afternoon Samara.
>> Peter I want to start with you first. There are a lot of questions being asked about the fact that seemingly now a racial slur in policing is treated more seriously than actual murder. What is going on? And the scenes we saw last night, the protest outside South uh the the police Southampton police. It shows that people are very upset and I'm so divided about this because on one hand I think many police officers are stressed out about losing their their careers over being accused of racism but on the other hand to be handcuffing someone who is barely conscious lying there on the ground is also unacceptable. What's your take on this Peter?
Well, quite clearly we've got to the point now where police training and indoctrination is so fundamentally wrong and appalling that we have police officers acting in the way that we saw. And what I mean by that is I've heard all the excuse makers who are actually trying to defend the indefensible policing saying, "Well, there had been a 12minute phone call. They'd been told that there had been an assault by a racist white person on a brown-faced person. So, they had that at the forefront of their thinking when they arrived. Well, for me, that's just nonsense. The opening shots of that bodywn camera that we've seen clearly shows that the man who has the police have been told is a racist is on the ground. is being sat up against the wall by the victim's father. So immediately when you see this s this panning out in front of you, you would go, "Hang on, this doesn't appear right." Because why would a member a family member of a man who's allegedly been attacked racially, why would he then be propping up the asalent against the wall? It doesn't make any sense. whatsoever. So your instant reaction would be I've got to find out what's gone on here. Not that you're going to assume something based on what you told. You are going to dynamically assess the situation and find out exactly what went on. And then the handcuffing and that dreadful line which should be a seminal moment for British policing when Henry tells the officer he's been stabbed. And the officer disgustingly replies, "I don't think you have, mate.
>> You've been stabbed. Whereabouts?
>> Don't think you have, mate."
>> And then you got nothing. I want to keep you up. Yes,
>> that should be etched at the top of every police training manual from here and hereafter because it should be seinal. It shows that the police assumed things and we all know that assumption is the mother of all muckups and that they had pre-ordained bias in their heads which in the early stages clouded them from properly assessing the situation.
>> Absolutely. And we know now as well there was a 999 call that was made by a random bystander who also said someone's been stabbed and they also weren't listened to. you know, the more details that we get coming from this case, also hearing that the mother and the brother were already conspiring, already hiding evidence uh to make sure that Vicram Digbar could potentially get out of this free is absolutely insane. The family effort, I've got to give a little credit to the father who I think did try and get medical attention. Harmon, you were there yesterday during the sentencing. I mean what were the emotions like?
>> Emotions were overflowing. People were like I seen many friends and family of Henry Novak. They all were crying emotion. They just watching each other and their tears were falling from the ears. They're not able to speak out and it was very emotional yesterday because they were they were here day before yesterday looking for some good sentencing for these scumsa but judge gig only 21 years which is which is very less what happened the family was broken but his father stood tall and he gave a message out out to the press he was very brave he used very valued words to keep the calm he done his But inside he was broken that what police did after the attack that was shameless.
>> It really was. And it's interesting though because as a member of the seat community, you came on my show just last week. You spoke about the banning of the Kia pan which has now become a massive topic in the British zeitgeist. Should it be banned? Should people be able to wear ceremonial knives? Look, I have to in some way and you know there were actually years added to his sentence because he brought the seat community into disrepute which I really agree with the judge on because he has considering that since the kipan has been made legal to wear. There actually hasn't been a single attack with it. It's just this is the first instance of something so horrible happening. So in a way you've got to say this was a really bad egg. Akmed, you've been listening here. You are a a Muslim man and you're saying that the Kia pan shouldn't be banned. What's your rationale behind that? Shouldn't this be a watershed moment where we say no more? One murder is one too many.
>> It's it's sort of the prosecution's own case that a another knife was used and uh but you can check the court records for that. Another knife was used and we don't know whether the kipan was actually used to commit that murder. I made a statement a few days ago and I said look yes a criminal is going to go to prison for his crime but bringing the kron into it like globally and targeting the seek faith which people have been doing is wrong. That's what my my thoughts go out to Henry Novak family. I'm a father of four and that video that I watched the body warn I couldn't watch it was a very very difficult watch and like Peter said these police need some sort of training but what about the ones that actually went and did that are they going to get some sort of disciplinary action against them or no this is something that we've been know it's been happening police are not doing their job properly in certain circumstances yes the media doesn't allow them to do Because if they've got a phone call that somebody's being racist, already there's pressure on them. And that pressure comes from media. And it's the far right media that say that there's a two-tier system here where when one person is a racist to a person of color or they get treated differently to someone who is racist, someone who is racist to someone a person of nonol. Basically people are saying this the farright media are saying this about the police. So the police are under immense pressure in this sort of aid in this period. They are under pressure but there has to be proper training now. A mother has lost a child. A father has lost a child and yes Vikram Digua did a very bad thing and his family have been punished. I'm sure one of his mother's being convicted as well for assisting an offender if if I'm not mistaken. He should she should I mean if my boy makes a mistake, if my child makes a mistake, I'll be the first one to call the police and say he needs to be punished. That perpetrator must be punished. But again I stand by my statement what I made a few days ago that the whole seek faith is not under trial and every case is individual to his facts and his evidence and the fact is that the kon wasn't used
>> Peter
>> Ahmed Ahmed you've used the expression farright media twice. Who in your opinion is the far right media?
WGB News, a lot of other media channels, the news news agent and I'm not ashamed to say
>> I really don't think that the farright media who are the only ones who have actually covered this properly. I don't even call it farright media. I just call right leaning media.
>> Okay. Right. There's only right leaning media.
>> Am I also far right? Because I am also against this what happened with this Henry.
>> Am I far right? You don't know whether you're coming or going. You're saying halal meat should be banned and you went to Dubai and this is the topic of meat here. You can do something somewhere somewhere else. You don't know whether you're coming or going.
>> It's not topic. You I think it's it's you in this conversation that's the kind of intellectual level you're on. Harmon. So Peter you started this with you came in. Why you jumping the wagon? It's not about It's about the No, it's it's the level of intellect. I'm being fake. Keep you added this cuz you don't know whether you are really a barister or you got fake papers.
>> Okay. Okay. Amed really understand what Hmon's halal meat standpoint.
>> No, I thought Henry Novak. I said my thoughts are with the family and my thoughts are with the deceased.
>> No, of course. But I think look, let's just bring it back to the point that
>> yeah actually the positive discrimination thing that's being brought in. You know, we've had Southampton police officer leaking to the Telegraph that police officers are told that they must respond in different ways according to the ethnicity of those
>> because there's a pressure on the police force. They made a massive mistake. But how do we stop that mistake from happening again? Because the answer
>> I just want Peter to chime in here as and then Harmon I'll get your view.
>> I think Peter does have the answer to be fair. He made a valid point about you know uh early training and proper training indoctrination. That's the only way it's going to
>> training that has led to this though. Would you say, Peter, the way that police officers are so scared to offend anyone that they even went and offered Vicram Digua, the murderer, special food while he was in custody? Meanwhile, Henry Noah,
>> he was not even handcuffed. He was not even handcuffed.
>> Exactly.
>> Yesterday,
>> yesterday, I was reminded of a wonderful expression from police training of yesterday year. And that training was the only color a police officer will see is blue as in the thin blue line. And it's a wonderful old line because it says to officers, you do not see color. You see everybody and treat everybody equally no matter what. You do not have bias towards one particular group or another whether they be a prince or a porpa. You treat them all the same and the only color you see is blue. And there's another wonderful expression from policing of yesterday year which will never be used these days and it was called the ABC of policing and the A stands for accept nothing. B stands for believe no one and C stands for check everything. If the C had been applied that everything had been checked instantly those officers arrived on the ground this could have turned out to be a very different story 100%. And how can you put him in hand handcuffs and then take them away?
>> And there's going to be an investigation into that. But you're I feel like an element of that Akmed is the fact that the racial slur was treated more seriously than the fact that he has been
>> and shouldn't have been like I said whether a white person is the victim of racism whether let's just listen to the call from the brother. Sorry, we just got attacked racially by some white person.
>> Right. Okay. Whereabouts are you?
>> Uh, we're on Belmont Road.
>> Just out in the street. Are you?
>> Sorry.
>> You're just in the street?
>> Uh, yeah. Literally, I just parked on my car to come home and he's attacked my brother.
>> You talking about verbally or physically?
>> No. No. He's physically attacked my brother. We're seeks. We wear turban and he's attacked my brother.
>> Have any weapons been involved?
>> No, no, no.
>> no.
>> What did he say to you?
>> Oh, who do you think you are? Look, bro, you're drunk. Then I go he goes, "Oh, who do you think that's a bad look? I have a bad
>> go." What What did he say? Did he Did he racially abusive?
>> The police need a report. Come here. Yeah, he was. So, they said to me, "He stumbled into my brother."
>> Yeah.
>> So, he st Do you want to speak to my brother?
>> No, you carry on. He stumbled into him and then what did he do?
>> Okay. So, he stumbled into you and then what?
>> Yeah. So he's walked into and he's stumbled. He's drunk. I've really said to him, "Look, yeah, look, mate, you're drunk. Carry on about your day. Do what you need to do."
>> And then what?
>> Then he goes to me, "Who do you think you are? Who do you think you are?"
>> He goes, "Who do you think you are? Who do you think you are?" To my brother. And then what?
>> And then he goes, "Oh, oh, you're this, you're that. Who you think you're a bad man?" I was like, "Yeah, I'm a bad man. What?" Then he starts recording me. As he's recording me, I'll snatch his phone. He's then laid a punch onto me. He's pushed me back and my turban's come off. He started then grabbing my head. So I then grabbed him and then he started pushing me, attacking me even further and everything like that.
>> Uh at the minute now he's lying on the floor. Uh he was trying to get away. He jumped over some bins and stuff um on the other neighbor side. He jumped over the bins and tried to leave through the binway. He's left a shoe here as well.
>> So he doesn't have any injuries?
>> He's hurt his face. I think he's fallen because when he tried to climb over the bin, he's fell on he's fallen from the one side of the bin over the gates to the other side. think he needs medical attention.
>> Um, does he need medical attention? You reckon
>> he will? Yeah, I believe. Yeah.
>> just to confirm, no one's seen any weapons.
>> No, no, I don't know what weapons it would be.
>> I mean, hearing that is just I I did think it was important to play the full thing. You can just hear the lies. The lies from the start. Harmon, what's your reaction? As a baptized sik, Amrhari sik as that sick can never lie. That's the one rule of this sikism. These people keep on lying. Whole family keep on lying from start till end of the trial. So this is one thing. They were the family of liars who used an dagger to kill a unarmed person. And in sikism a man a sick cannot use a weapon against unarmed weak person. It can be used only as last resort. If nothing is coming up, no help is coming up and you have to save lives and your aggressor is very powerful. Only then you can use this kan that was oldest. But now we living in civilized society. We need don't need to carry big kan to show off or bully people. I am being bullied by times. I posted many videos online before that many of our sick brothers with long swords and kans they are bullying other people on the streets. I don't like that and I'm posting it from last two three years. It's just not now I started ban krypans. I'm doing it from last two three years because I've been through this. I was attacked by six with kans at my home at my businesses because I don't agree with their ideology. So I because it's being used as excuse that you can carry it and police is not stopping them. But I was arrested once just on posting I will defend myself if somebody tried to kill me because police is not helping me. I got arrested straight away. Why? Why that time police didn't arrest me?
>> You were arrested straight away. You were
>> Yeah. Straight away. Why? Yeah. But other guys you are threatening, they're not being arrested. But I got arrested. Why? Because I am a right-wing. I am against establishment. I'm against what's wrong.
>> Peter,
>> I I I just could complete one thing. Just before coming to the show, I posted one video online where I mentioned clearly many ex-convicts, mental people, unstable people, they are just putting turban on their head and carrying swords and kans. So I just posted it. Have a look before and after. They are just change their appearance to carry these swords to do whatever they want to do legally. What where are the system to find out is he's a real baptized six or not who's carrying a sword. Does he do all five case?
>> So people are use misusing the system.
>> Yes.
>> If if he because in old times used to fly we used are you saying that they should we used to used to wear this small ones. Small ones for carry
>> small ones. Yeah. to carry
>> used to carry because at least believe we don't need big daggers because when you are possession of this power you will misuse it and our people are misusing it again again and again I can show you hundreds of videos where sick guys using kpan big kpan and stabbing other people
>> it is a known thing my father comes from amritza in the punjab region and there are a lot of uh seek youths that unfortunately have been using and abusing their power that they get when they do get to use the ceremonial dagger and unfortunately it's just a taste of what might come on Britain's streets in my opinion. Uh Peter, I just want to quickly get your reaction to that recording because you can see that he the brother straight away goes to racism to get the cops involved and to cover himself. Why did he do that?
>> Because he's a liar. Um, my big takeaways from this dreadful tragedy are police training needs to be changed radically. Police policy needs to be changed dramatically. Digo's sentence was nowhere near suitable for the crime and the aggravating factors. He should have received a much higher tariff than 21 years for his uh murder conviction. And lastly, the Digua family released a disgusting family statement yesterday. Clearly, members of that family are violent. They are liars. They are disgusting.
>> And they've disgraced the SE community.
>> Indeed, they have. Digua could be 44 years old when he is released. He will be old enough to start a family and to live well into old age with decades and decades of life in front of him. All of which was denied to the wonderful Henry. It is absolutely scandalous.
>> Harmon and Peter, you've both taken the knee for Henry Noak, which I believe is very noble and so have I.
>> Have you, Akmed? You've been
>> Of course I have. I've been saying it for so long. Come on now. Don't try to put words in my mouth. When I made my first video, I said my
>> I didn't seem to take the knee on social media.
>> I haven't taken the knee, but uh my thoughts and prayers are with Henry Novak's family. And like I said earlier, I matter as much as black lives.
>> Of course they do. Every single life matters. Me, someone from the Muslim faith. And of course, there may be radical people in my faith as well along with the seek faith, along with the Christian faith. But I believe as a Muslim that every human being is equal. I've just traveled to Hajj and on pilgrimage and I made a video over there when I said everyone is dressed in the same. There is no white, there is no poor, there is no black. We're all equal.
>> No women in the
>> but okay. No, but it's segregated. Of course, it rightfully should be. Why would you, Samara, would you want to go and sleep in open air in front of a million men? You wouldn't want to do that, would you?
>> I wouldn't mind, but I wouldn't be welcome.
>> You're trying to act as if this was some sort of kumbaya moment at the Hajj. I understand that you had a great time and I think you have come back more peaceful, but I I wouldn't paint it as some sort of inclusive environment.
>> Of course, it's an inclusive environment. Sorry, object there. I would be very willing to sleep out in the open with a million women, but I think they'd all need a lot of counseling afterwards. I mean, look, look, you know, own opinion might be something else, but my religious faith, Islam, of course, there is segregation and there is, you know, that equality as well. At the same time, there can be segrity, segre segreity and equality can coexist. This is what people don't understand.
>> So, I just want to get on that. So, shouldn't there be one rule for all then? Shouldn't it be that no one can carry a ceremonial knife if you if you're wanting this if you're wanting this sort of peace among everyone?
>> I mean, look, like I said, I mean, I think you mentioned it earlier, Samara. This is the first incident that of this sort that had taken place and we shouldn't be putting the faith. H, sorry, you wanted to say something.
>> We should should have put the seek faith on trial. That's all I'm saying. I mean, if a Christian makes a mistake, are you going to put the whole Christian faith on trial? His faith hasn't advised him to do that. He's done that out of his own accord cuz he's a mad person. He's a criminal.
>> I mean, his faith hasn't advised him to do that.
>> I want to I want your opinion on this just before we wrap up.
>> The power come with responsibility. Right now, these people, they don't have any responsibility. They only have has power. I posted one more video yesterday. One man was killed in Canada by a sick with kpan. It's happening everywhere in Punjab, India. The nihangs are doing street justice and chopping the hands off of the people with swords.
>> Law is there. It should need to be restrained now. It's we are not living in jungle or caves. We are now living in civilized society. We don't need big swords or edged sharp swords or daggers to carry with us and bully or kill people. No, it should not be. If that's the case, then every people should carry it. Or all English people start wearing turban or start carrying ka. That's the way out. Simple as that. All it's for all or for no one. Simple as that.
>> I mean, look, like I said again, I'm going to stick to what I said. The whole seek faith is not on trial. about faith about sik faith it's about the carrying of kirpan dangerous weapon on the streets
>> but that is part of the sik faith that is part we don't need to carry sharp blade in many in many countries we are not carrying it UAE many countries Italy they don't allow us to carry but six are living there they have gas everything is there they still living there how are they living there
>> so we have to broadand it we like I said it feels as from an outsider from someone of the outside faith it feels like the All seek faith is on trial right now and they've been targeted. You're playing against that man cuz you like to appease certain people but I don't appease I am the lawyer to this country. I don't appease people on your way into things. I like to appease certain people.
>> I appease my country not people. You appeasing people for votes. You appeasing people for not a politician.
>> I am just going.
>> No, I'm not politician. I'm just going to make a change. You don't want to say
>> you tried to you tried to run. You failed. You lost last year. You remember?
>> Okay. Okay.
>> Yeah. You tried to get rid of your M. You can't.
>> You try again. Try again.
>> I'm going to wrap this up by saying
>> at least I don't know my way and try to appease to people that don't like me.
>> You just came out to be You just came out to
>> I say how it is. Do you jango? Do your law degree again.
>> You watch that movie the jango
>> and you realize what I'm talking about.
>> Welcome to
>> No, no, I don't know. See, see, everyone is equal in Islam. No, he's speaking.
>> Go watch the movie Django. Watch the movie. I I see I watched the movie with subtitles.
>> Watch it.
>> Okay.
>> I watch that goes against own people to appease others. That's what you do, right?
>> It's not about own people. It's loyalty to the country. I'm not loyal to my community. I'm loyal to the country.
>> I'm loyal to my country as well. You're not. You're not. I seen your videos. You're loyal to Palestine. You're loyal to Gaza. You're loyal to Gaza. You're loyal to Palestine. Not this country. I can show your videos to you.
>> You are not loyal to this country.
>> Children are dying. I'm I'm worried when children are dying.
>> GO TO PALESTINE. WHY ARE YOU LIVING HERE? Go to go to Gaza.
>> Let's bring this back. I'm going to have to
>> One day I will go and get aid there and help.
>> Go there. Why you living in this country? Go to Gaza.
>> Okay. Let's bring this back to the fact that on British streets, an 18-year-old was murdered. It was because of the fact that they had an altercation. They didn't even know each other. They bumped into each other on the street. An altercation happened. We believe the turban was slightly misplaced and then because he had a seek ceremonial knife, he was able to take it and stab him multiple times and he bled in police custody with his last things that were said to him being his memor his rights, his bill of rights, his memorandum. It is a very dark day for Britain. We can see that there is clearly polarization. People are not agreeing with each other. But I think what we can agree with is the fact that Henry Noak, his death should not be in vain and they need to be changes that come out of this and quick and fast. But I don't put it on Labor to be doing anything too soon because they haven't been able to have a steady hand with this sort of thing. Thank you very much for joining me,
>> Peter and Akmed Yakub. I really really appreciate your time and I appreciate you sharing your perspective on this.