DEBATE: Does The Quran Say The Bible Is Corrupted? w/ David Wood, Jai & DoC, and Chris

It's God. It's God. It's God. It's God.

What's going on everybody? Happy Friday. It's Good Friday. Matter of fact, it's Good Friday. It's Holy Week, and we got us a special one today, man. We got Chris Speakers Corner in the building, the Dizzle himself, Giant DLC. Say what's up everybody. What's going on with you guys? What's up? What's up? Really excited to be with you guys. Islamic Dilemma sir 2 special. Nice. Got ourselves a good Friday special today, don't we? Don't we Chris? Amen. Amen. It's good. Many good reasons for this Friday. Mhm.

So, what what's going on, Dizzle? Man, you what what what we doing here, man? What?

Well, I'm just I'm just sending out the link telling everyone we're live. Let's see. All right. Sent that out. But, um, yeah, you know, when people say, "Hey, this is Good Friday. We think we want our we think we want our Muslim friends to understand what Good Friday is, but they're glued to their Quran and they think our book's been corrupted when we try to tell them about Good Friday and they say, "No, your book is corrupted when it says that happened to Jesus." And so sometimes we just have to point out that oopsie, your book affirms our book. And so when you say our book is wrong, you're actually saying your own book is wrong. And why would you do that? But we agree with you that your book is wrong.

Um, so anyway, so anyway, we've got a uh we've we've got a little uh a fun little group going, and we've been reading through the Quran verse by verse, chapter by chapter, chapter by chapter. And what we what we'd like to do what we'd like to do is on some of the really important chapters like surah 2 is really important. Surah 5 is really important in terms of these things are some of these chapters are just loaded loaded with information about what the Quran says about the previous scriptures. And so with a couple of these chapters like surah 2 right now we actually want to take a look at surah 2. We want to go through it. We want to show Muslims what it says because they do not hear this at the mosque. They do not hear this from their imam. They never heard this from their parents. No one actually draws their attention to what the Quran really says about the previous scriptures. Instead, instead um they're just told they're just told, "Oh yeah, the Quran affirms the corruption of the previous scriptures." And so we want to uh we want to show Muslims what their shakes and imams never show them. Show them what the Quran says about our scriptures. And also to be to be completely fair, give them an opportunity. give them an opportunity to show us we're wrong. If they're right and the the Quran actually says the Bible's been corrupted, or in this case, focusing specifically on Surah 2, if Surah 2 actually says the Bible's been corrupted, then guess what? We're wrong. We're wrong with this Islamic dilemma stuff. So, we need to be corrected.

But, uh I I have to say what I'm guessing is that we're going to go through surah 2. Muslim our Muslim friends are going to raise some objections uh based on stuff they look up on terrible da websites, and they're going to get schooled and cooked not by us or our great brain power but just by us taking them to what the verses actually say and what commentaries actually say, and that's all by reading. That's it. The only What's the only thing we do around here? Giant DLC. We just read, man. Read, man. That's it. We don't need to interpret nothing. We don't need to put our own two cents. We just going to read. We gonna let the Quran speak. What's up there? And that's the problem. See, Muhammad was told to read. He's like, "What? I can't read." So, he couldn't do it, right? He couldn't do what we could do right now. We can solve all these problems right here because we can read. That's right.

All right. So, we got a super chat before we bring our guest up. We got a super chat here from Ken the Exedite says, "Happy Good Friday, Brother God. Logic. All glory and honor and praise to our Lord Jesus Christ who died on the cross for our sins. And Sunday is coming." That's right. We know what happened on that Sunday morning. He rose again in authority and power. Yeah.

All right. What are we most excited to see? What are we excited to see here, guys?

Man, I want to I want to see what we're going to get. What do you um well Chris Chris and Jai and doc have both uh have all posted uh detailed videos going through going through surah 2. Um I'll just draw people's attention to um couple of quick passages. Couple of quick passages here and then uh we can we'll be unpacking things and adding to it and expanding on it and going through uh other passages in surah too. And then our Muslim friends can raise their objections and show us why Allah once again means the exact opposite of what he says. For some strange reason Allah he keeps saying things when he means the exact opposite. We saw this years ago where um he would say fight those who do not believe and somehow that meant only fight in self-defense just be peaceful. Uh things like that. But now it's now it's especially with the Islamic dilemma. Allah keeps affirming our scriptures and yet he means the exact opposite. But I'll give a couple of examples here. So I'll just read surah 2 40- 44. Oh children of Israel, just so you know who he's talking to. Oh children of Israel, call to mind my favor which I bestowed on you and be faithful to your covenant with me. I will fulfill my covenant with you and of me, me alone, should you be afraid, and believe in what I have revealed, verifying that which is with you. Yeah. Verifying that which is with you. Saying, believe in the scriptures that he's revealing to Muhammad. Why? Because they verify that which is with you. the scriptures still have. And that's strange because our Muslim friends say he's not verifying the scriptures they have. He's actually ver he's actually verifying something they don't have anymore that was because you know they once had it at some point but then it was later corrupted. Uh but this is a strange way to say it. This is a very strange way to say it. Um but Allah continues and do not mix up the truth with the falsehood nor hide the truth while you know it. While you know it. What's that mean? It means they know the truth. when they're disagreeing with him about something, they know the truth, which means they have access to reliable scriptures. And keep up prayer and pay the poor rate and bow down with those who bow down. What do you enjoin men to be good and neglect your own souls while you read the book? What book would that be? It It's gone. The book that disappeared. It disappeared. It's gone. Go ahead. It's a It's a disappearing book. It's a disappearing book. Yes, that's that's really that's really sad.

Um, so we have just so everyone knows who's watching this keeps up this Allah saying that he's confirming what they have and Muhama and saying that Muhammad confirms what they have. This keeps going. So verse 89, and when there came to them a book from Allah verifying that which they have, talking about the Quran, how it verifies their book. Although our Muslim friends say, "No, the Quran doesn't verify your book. It verifies that your book is corrupted. Yeah. Again, strange way to say it. Verse 91. And when it is said to them, believe in what Allah has revealed, they say, we believe in that which was revealed to us, and they deny what is besides that, while it is the truth verifying that which they have. Uh-oh. Verse 101. And when there came to them an apostle from Allah verifying that which they have, a party of the book were given the book threw the book of Allah behind their backs as if they knew nothing. So over and over again it's the Quran affirms what they have the scriptures that they have and Muhammad affirms the scripture that they have.

Just want to uh focus on one more verse verse verse uh 85 of Surah 2 just because it's so awesome. Um it's one of my favorites. Yeah. In context ladies and gentlemen in context this is Allah rebuking the Jews basically in Medina. uh Medina at this time you had three Jewish tribes and two Arab tribes and the two of the Jewish tribes were aligned with one Arab tribe, one Jewish tribe was aligned with another Arab tribe. And so the Arab tribes would fight with each other and you would have Jews fighting on both sides uh on both sides of a battle and expelling each other from houses and things like that. But then then they would e even if the the Jews that they're fighting against were captured or something like that, they would ransom them. They would be like, "Well, they're they're our fellow Jews, so we have to ransom this." So anyway, so Allah rebukes them for fighting against their own group and expelling their own group when they also will ransom and and rescue their own people from their own group. Says you you shouldn't be you shouldn't be fighting your own group. So anyway, he says in verse 85, "Yet it is you who slay your people and turn a party from among you out of their homes, backing each other up against them unlawfully and exceeding the limits. And if they should come to you as captives, you would ransom them while their very turning out was unlawful for you." So he's saying you'd ransom them because you're supposed to, but you you're not supposed to cast them out and you do that anyway. But watch what he says here to rebuke them. says, "Do you then believe in a part of the book and disbelieve in another?" Guys, guys catching that. Do you believe in part of the book but disbelieve in another? So, in other words, you can't cherrypick what you like and dislike. You can't you can't I don't like that. Yeah. And then he goes on in the verse, he says, "What's the reward for anyone who does this? but disgrace in the life of this world and on the day of resurrection he'll be sent back to the he'll be sent to the most grievous chastisement. So Allah says if you pick and choose with his revelations and he's talking to the children of Israel he's talking to seventh century Jews about the scripture that they still have with them saying he's confirming what they have and when Jews would pick and choose Allah says he's going to send them to hell if you pick and choose what you're going to believe out of your book going to send you to hell. Why is that important? Because every Dawa guy on the planet tells us we have to pick and choose. Every last one of them. And every Muslim who's going to uh who's going to call in and challenge us is going to say, "No, no, no, no. It's just affirming parts." And it's saying that other parts are corrupt. Oh, okay. So, we're supposed to pick and choose, right? Even though your God says if you pick and choose, he will send you to hell. Isn't that interesting? And so the the great irony here, the great irony here is when Muslims say your your Bible's been corrupted and they have all of these verses saying that it hasn't been corrupted, what are they doing? They're picking and choosing. They're picking and choosing which verses of the Quran to believe. So Allah tells the Allah tells the Jews, if you pick and choose, if you believe in parts of the book and don't believe in other parts, I'll send you to hell. And then the da'wah guys come along and say, "Yes, you have to pick and choose. Even though Allah says says he'll send you to hell, you need to do it anyway. You need to do whatever whatever Allah says that he will send you to hell for, you need to do that. That's welcome to da'wah." And so we point out, "Wait a minute. What about all these verses? Oh, we don't believe in all these verses that affirm your scriptures." Okay, then you're pick you're picking and choosing. And that is exactly what Allah says he will he will send people to hell for. So that's we're in a weird way. I mean, we're kind of the warers. The Quran calls the Quran calls Muhammad the warer, but we're we're the warers. We're the ones telling you guys, your da guys are telling you to do things that will get you sent straight to hell according to the Quran. We're telling you the truth about what your own scriptures say and you hate us for it. You get mad at us. And that's exactly what the Quran says you'll do. Huh. Isn't that strange?

Well, you heard it guys. Now, we got a super chatter. Chris, I want to I want you to answer this one. It's from Kate. Says, "Hi, everyone. God bless y'all. Is there a way surah 547 could be interpreted as fragmentaryary preservation as as if the verse says in it not the books as not the books as a whole or lol or is this just plain Muslim shuffling? So no for the reason David just gave surah 285 condemns partialism taking parts of the previous scriptures as authorative and then rejecting other parts of it. So you can't cherrypick. So that's one reason why surah ala 47 can't be taken in that way. But another reason is because the way the Quran talks about the previous scriptures is it talks about them holistically. So there's the inje parts of an injeal. It's not broken down into some bits and other bits but there is just the injeil that injeil is the same in that Allah revealed. So it's inspired. It's the same one that the Christians have to judge by. The people of the gospel have to judge by this. They don't stand by anything if they don't judge by this. So it's authoritative and it's preserved because supposedly there's prophecy about Muhammad in it according to surah 7157. So there is no way they can break this down because the Quran doesn't allow them to because the Quran never does that. The Quran is consistent which is a weird thing for me to say today. But anyway, the Quran is consistent in that it talks about the injorah. It it doesn't say oh you got Torah, you know, you got Torah number one over here then you got Torah 2.0. Oh, which is slightly better, which has got Muhammad in it, but Torah one, you know, it doesn't do that. So, when when Muslims try and assert that and and have to interject it, they're doing bitter. They're doing innovation and they're saying that the companions, the the Sahabah, actually don't know as much as they do today. Good stuff.

And I'll just uh I'll just uh uh add add really quickly if all you had as as Chris pointed out um that you certain other passages in the Quran rule out certain reinterpretations. If you just had surah 5:47 and that's all the Quran said on this issue, I think you could I think you could interpret it in either way. Either it's e either it's uh affirming that the the book is entirely good or it's saying that there's some part it's other passages that would rule out that uh that second uh interpretation and Chris pointed out surah 2 vers 85. I would also I would say that the entire context of the passage starting at verse 43 and going all the way to verse 48 rules that out because uh the the that whole discussion in the Quran is set off by Jews coming to Muhammad to settle a dispute and Allah says why are they coming to you when they have the Torah and it's and you so in context what you find is that Jews and Christians would try to avoid judging by their scriptures if they didn't like some sort of ruling and so they would look for a way around it and what What Muhammad's job is is to tell them, "No, no, no, no, no. You don't get to you don't get to deviate from your scriptures. Go back to your scriptures." So if Jews try to get some other ruling than what's in their scripture, Allah sends them right back to their scripture. And then Christians are told to do the same thing. So it wouldn't make sense to say that our book is has been partially corrupted or something like that. It wouldn't make sense in the context. And then uh the very next verse 548, that's where we're told that the Quran is a a guardian. The Quran is a guardian. And you in context what it means for the Quran to be a guardian is as I just pointed out people try to deviate from their scriptures. The Quran says no you don't. No you don't. No you don't. You're going right back to your scriptures. And then of course later in the same chapter um 566 568 568 says people of the book Jews and Christians have no ground to stand upon unless we stand fast by the Torah, the gospel and then all the revelation has come to us from our Lord. So the point is none of this none of this makes any sense. None of this makes any sense. If the Quran is saying parts of your scripture are still good, but other parts are are wrong.

Right. Another super chat here. Libyaniano and Hamza are doing a live storm. No, we're not storming anybody's live this time, guys. Not this time. But maybe next time I might I might do some something like that. We'll see. Yeah, it's Good Friday. We're in We're We're in a nice mood. We're in a good mood right now. Don't want to ruin anybody else's day here. Issa Kabir says, "Wow, super apologetics team is assembled." Praise God for that. Waiting for you to join the team, Issa. Waiting for you, bro. We got Lloyd who says, "Hey, Logic. God bless you and the panel. Please consider bringing St. Marad on the show. Ask Chris about him. He had inter interactions with him. Mirage just released a Quran translation that exposes the lies of the Quranic translations. You know this guy, Chris?" Yes. Uh, say Mirage. really awesome guy. He's uh he's someone who's done a a translation of the Quran in Arabic to expose the actual real Arabic meaning of the text. So he does it without looking at the uh the kind of like um and abassid later reinterpretations of the Arabic text. He strips that away and he just looks at the Quran in its Arabic form and he says, "Okay, how, you know, using lexicons, using dictionaries. In fact, he actually made his own concordance. Um, how would this uh word like just rendered naked? What would it mean?" Yeah. So, it allows a much more um honest reading of the Quran, you might say. Okay. Yeah. He's he's a cool guy. It's pretty dope. Did you Did Chris say naked? I did indeed.

Um, we got Rick Newton who says, "Love the stream. God bless you all. When you all stand before Jesus, he will honor you all for doing the good works. Fight the good fight of faith." Amen, man. Praise God. Thank you guys so much. We got Andrew Michaels who says this, "Logic, I was in DMs with a sister's ringerstead in Islam. I presented your arguments and linked your channel. She is now coming to Christ." Nice for all your work. God bless all of you, man. That's that is amazing, man. Praise God for that. Glory to God. That is beautiful. Yeah. This is this shows guys God's hand is on, you know, is what on what we do, man. What we do, everything is in Christ and by the Holy Spirit. So, man, praise God for another sister. It's been crazy, guys. We've been getting a lot of testimony this week. A lot of people been a lot of Muslims have been coming to Christ within this week alone or announcing that they're interested in coming to Christ and looking into it. Like my last stream was an exp it was basically like an altar call guys. Like there was Muslims coming up one after another. One gave his life to Christ. The three others were like right there um you know uh pray ask for prayer and looking into the truth and saying Jesus is the truth just waiting to make that next step. So it's it's been a crazy week man. That's amazing. And it's really important um that uh people hear from guys like Andrew and uh tune in to God Logic's channel because I mean, you know, these Dawa guys will turn all the ladies into prostitutes basically. And so these are like matters of extreme moral significance, moral and spiritual significance. Guys, we're in we're in an ongoing battle where the Dawa guys are trying to trying to transform all the ladies into basically prostitutes and we're trying to rescue them. Anyway, so good.

All right, guys. Read this one more and then we'll get we'll get the party started. Rick Newton says, "Also, here's my Jizia. Take it from me." Okay, we'll take your Jizia, Rick. No problem. He feels himself subdued. He feels humiliated. You see the truth? You see it?

All right. So, the next the first guest that we have today, his name is Mohamad. How you doing, Muhammad? Welcome. You're on stage. Hey.

Hello, David. Hello, Chris. Hey, Muhammad. How you doing?

Um, can you can you hear me? Sorry. Can you Yep. Yes. Yeah, we can hear you. Hi, Mohammed.

Oh, all right. Yeah. What's up, Muhammad? I just say don't say hi to us. Sorry. Sorry. I just I I can't believe I'm just couldn't see. Yeah, that's okay. Hello. Hello J and Duce. I don't know. All right. So, um sorry. It's okay. DLC. Oh, all right. I was looking at like I mean I'm wondering if you you know the verse in the Quran uh surah Bak 279 if you know it or I can read it to you. Do we? You can read it. You can read it to us for everyone but uh yeah we know it quite well. Sorry, David. I said, "Yeah, you can go ahead and read it to every to everyone so that everyone." So, you know what's the content or should I read? Oh, of course. Oh, okay. So, in English it is about um those who exchange the scripture with their own hands then say this is from Allah in order to exchange it from a small price uh to them for what their hands have written and who to them for what they earn. Um I assume David would do you know this one. Do you know the verse? Do I? Right. Okay. Surah 2 verse 79 is my life. Yeah. Okay. So but but doesn't say that it doesn't say here that they changed the books. Which book? Which book? Um hello. It speaks about the holy books, right? Yeah. Which book? Yeah. Sorry. Yeah. Which book is it talking about? Yeah. What's his name? Uh, which book? Yeah. Um, it doesn't say which book. Oh, great. Okay. So, it could be any book that they've written, right? Could be the Quran. Yeah. Could be the Quran or it could be any random book that they've written. Let me ask you this question. Let me ask you this question. Is the Quran referred to as alab? Okay, I see your point. But um but it's me Muhammad Muhammad is the Quran referred to as the book alab is the Quran referred to as that um like what do you mean? Sorry. Is the Quran the book is the Quran referred to as the book alab? Um the answer is yes by the way. Okay. You know surah Muhammad not sure like how is it us or is he lagging? He's lagging. He's lagging a little bit. It's okay. I think you guys are lagging. I don't know why you guys are lagging. It's everybody else. Muhammad. Yeah, it's everybody else. Do you know Arabic? Do you know the Arabic? Do you know the Arabic language, my friend? I don't know. Everyone is lagging. But I hear you now. Okay. So, we're asking you I speak Arabic. Yeah. Okay. Have you heard of that verse? Chapter 2, verse two. You mean you mean al Yeah. Uh yeah, this guy's like audio logging way behind. He's not keeping up. Yes. Speak up. I hear you. Yeah. I Yes. I There's a little bit late. Yeah, I hear you. Yes. Yeah. It's it's too late for it's we can't have a conversation like this Muhammad because it's the the delay is is killing us. So try maybe try to reload your your internet connection and u we can we can try again. I think it's not my it's not for my end. Mine is definitely for from your end brother. You're you're cracking on all of our ends. But uh now you can't hear me. It's late. You will know. Yeah, there's there's just a little delay, Muhammad. So, it makes it a bit awkward. I think I think we have to go to the next one probably. Yeah. Hey, Muhammad. Muhammad, just so you know, this happens to me sometimes when there's a delay. Like, I'll hear some I'll hear some I'll hear someone and then respond to it, but I heard it like 8 seconds after they said it and so on. So, what what I

Normally, do I shut down whatever I'm on, and then I restart it, and then it usually works fine. So, try that.

But now, now is it still late at the moment? Okay. Yeah, there's still a bit of—It's like that guy from the Verizon commercial where he's like, "Can you hear me now? Can you hear me now? Can you—Good, good, good." That's the best for the whole stream.

Hey, should we should we talk about Sah uh Surah 2 verse 79 a little bit? Or should we wait? You want to wait? Yeah, let's wait until somebody tries to bring it up and see what they—Um, Zashan, you're on stage. How you doing?

Hello. How are you? I'm good. Thank you. Pretty good. All right. So, I would like to thank uh Shake Logic, David, Grace, and J. So, where is the big bull? Sam Shimon. Okay. You're welcome. Is there another delay? Is it us? Can you hear me now? We we can just fine, brother. All right. All right. So, okay. So, basically, I am I'm belong to Christianity. So, I have few questions.

So, you're a Christian? Yes, I am. I am a Christian. So, I have a few questions. So, will you allow me? I'll let him take Zashan. This is it. The link says for Muslims only to click the link. This is for the Muslims to come up and debate us on whether or not the Quran says the Bible's corrupted. Okay? So, if you have questions, you know, I sometimes host Christians where you guys can come and ask questions. Um, I'm pretty sure the others do as well sometimes. So, look out for those streams, but this stream is for Muslims only. Okay, no problem. Thank you so much for you guys. So, let me in and uh may God bless you all. God bless you. Bless you, brother.

Yeah. Let me let me break down the uh let me break down the idea of uh having Muslims call in. Uh, there's this ongoing issue, ladies and gentlemen, where we will be talking to a Muslim and we'll quote the Quran. We'll quote. So, if it's on this topic, then we'll quote the Quran, what the Quran actually says about the Bible, and it'll be completely different from what the Muslim we're talking to has heard about what the Quran says about the Bible, because he's only been listening to his Dawa guys, and his da guys assured him, yeah, the the Quran says the Bible's been corrupted. Um, so we point out that's not what the Quran says. But the Muslim we're talking to thinks, he thinks, it's in his head. Oh, even though I don't know how to respond to these guys, even though I don't know how to answer this, oh, if only some more knowledgeable Muslim were here, he would know how to point to all the Quran verses and say the Bible's been corrupted. So, they think there's some sort of—there it's in there. They just don't know where it is. And so, then what do we do? We open things up for Muslims to show us where the Quran says this. And then we're we're just hoping that after hours of Muslims trying and failing to show us where the Quran, where surah 2 says the Bible's been corrupted, we're hoping that some of these Muslims who think that it's in there but just don't know where. Well, we're hoping they realize, wait a minute, why can't any Muslim actually point to a verse that says what I've been told it says? You can't, right? In other words, you're told all your life, here's what the Quran says. We say, "Show us a verse. Show us where the Quran says this." And no one can. And it should eventually dawn upon people. There should be some light switch moment where a light switch goes off. And huh, why are all these Christians able to quote dozens of verses saying the Quran affirms the Bible, but we can't find one that condemns the Bible? What What's going on here? And that's when you're on your way out of Islam.

Yeah. Okay, let's bring up our next guest here. Uh, logical analyst. Wait, your your name's your nickname here is Muslim destroy. You're not a Muslim. Logical analyst. I remember you being here before. You're not a Muslim, right? Yo. Yo. Yo. Are you saying, "Hey, this David, do you remember? Do you remember me, David? Logical analyst." Oh, boy. All right. We're going to give somebody else a try. Bob. Okay. Abu Bakr, how you doing?

I'm doing fine. How are you logic? Pretty good. Pretty good. Welcome to the panel my friend. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Uh I see the topic is uh for us to to give the verse or ayat from the Quran that the Bible is correct is corrupted.

Yep. Um there is this one saying um wow to those who write the book by their own hands and say—You all read the same the same.

Yeah. Yeah. I I I have I have one question concerning about this ayat to you.

Sure. Sure. Sure. What or who are these people writing the book? And what is the book? Do you want to go to the commentaries to see? Do you know? Would you know?

No. No. No. No. No. Don't go there. You want the Muslim doesn't want to go to commentaries? Wow. Don't go there. No, don't go there. Don't go there, ladies and gentlemen. Don't go there. Whatever you do, don't go there. Why? Why though? I forbid you I forbid you. That's why I forbid you to go to your commentaries because they'll they'll refute me. If we go there, if we go there, that means we will have to bring the hadith because the Quran is best explained by the hadith like the man. Are you Quran only?

Yep. Are you Quran only? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. So, so you're against us going to your schol. So, you want us Christians to interpret your Quran. You don't want us to go to your scholars who interpret your Quran.

Yeah. Should we just go to you? Are you better or the slogan the slogan of Shah Logic is we just read? That's right. Yes. So, can we read your comments? We can read your comments. Yeah. So based based uh b best based based on what I just read for you. I want to know who wrote that book and what is the book.

Well, you're clear. You're clear. Quran doesn't tell us. So what do we do with stock man? We can go to the commentaries or we can tell you our opinion. Our opinion is that this is talking about a random book. A random book that we don't know. Maybe we can identify if we look at the commentaries though. Some random dude in the desert wrote some book. Okay. If you don't know, let's go to the commentary. What is it? What? What is this? Now you want to go to the commentary. Okay. Yeah. I wanted you to say you don't know first. That that explains that you don't understand this ayah.

Oh, there we go. Okay. Okay. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Okay. So, let's read the verse first. Chapter 2 verse 79. Woe to those who write the scripture in Arabic alab with their own hands. Then say this is from Allah in order to exchange it for a small price. Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for what they earn. Okay. Now, do you have a favorite commentary? Cuz we got them all. Okay, let's go to—You want to go? Did you—What would you say? You really want to go there, man? Oh, you want to go? Do you know what he says about the book? You really want to know 378. You really want to know what thinks about our book? That's why I'm here. Okay. So, let's go in the order that we have because we have a bunch of commentaries here. So, we'll go to—we'll go eventually, but first we'll start in—

Okay. Okay. So said uh those who distorted the book of Allah from among the Jews, they wrote a book according to their own interpretations contrary to what Allah revealed to his prophet Moses. So whatever they're writing is not what Allah revealed to Moses. It's the book of their own interpretations. And look here what it says in the red. It doesn't have knowledge in it nor of what is in the Torah. So whatever is in it, it's not the Torah. So whoever wrote it, it says they're ignorant of what is in the books of Allah. So whatever this book that was written down, it wasn't one of Allah's books. And it was just some random book written by some random Jews at the time. And there are some other uh opinions that said these people didn't even believe in any messenger of Allah. The they're called the unlettered ones. Okay? They are people who did not believe in any messenger Allah sent or any book. So they're random people. The Jews by the way believed in Moses. So these people didn't even believe in the Moses according to that uh opinion and they just wrote a random book with their own hands and sold it for a price.

Yes. Wow. Okay. I I get you. Uh but the Quran says also if the trees of this planet turn to pens and the ocean be the ink we will not exhaust the knowledge within the Quran. Uh do you think that what's—hang—no no no I just want to I just want to I just wanted to point out what you just said. You're talking about the knowledge of the Quran. One of the main things the Quran says is that it affirms the previous scriptures and you reject that. So why would we believe anything the Quran says if uh Allah can't can't say what he actually means? If we go with that conclusion, there is no any meaning of having this discussion then.

No, that's your that's your position. I think the Quran is is clear that it's clearly affirming the scriptures. If you say it's not affirming the earlier scriptures, then I say, "Okay, that according to you, Allah tries to say something, but he's got like some sort of cosmic Tourett syndrome, and he keeps saying the opposite of what he means, and he keeps blurting these things out, and there's nothing he can do about it. He sounds like he's he's off his meds or something like that, and he can't say what he means." Now, keep in mind, that's not what I'm saying. That's what it that's what it sounds like when Muslims tell me that I'm reading the the absolute clearest verses in the Quran, the clearest verses anywhere in the Quran, and they're saying Allah confirms your scriptures. He confirms your scriptures. You have to judge by your scriptures. You still have your scriptures. These are the—you have no ground to stand upon unless you stand fast by the Torah and the gospel. He's saying this over and over again. And Muslims say, "No, no, no. That's his way of saying that your Bible's been corrupted." Okay, then I can't trust anything he says, right? It it's like if someone came to him and he starts speaking and and he just—it's all gibberish or something like that. That's what you guys are telling us. You're telling us to treat the Quran like it's just gibberish and it has no actual meaning and and Allah can't convey his actual thoughts to us. Okay, you prevented me from—I we have a giant—they they know the Arabic, right? The word for confirm that you are using is a translation from right. Yeah. Uh it's in lots of verses there's a word. So yeah, what's your point? Can you—Yeah. Can you can you give the the meaning of based on your knowledge on Arabic?

Yeah, it means verify. It means to confirm. Confirm. Verify. Yep. Yep. So basically saying whatever that that book says, I agree. So do you think the Quran is agreeing with the whole Bible while keep—Yeah. Do you know the word while keep on correcting the the the the mistakes and errors in the in the Bible? Okay. Is just agreeing. Yeah. Do you know the word for—do you know the word like if I say I believe you—do you know how to say that in Arabic—it mean—it if I want to say I believe you your name is—I say I believe you—it's the same word—so whatever the Bible says the Quran says that means believes it really—if you want to take it to the root—confirm and believe—it's it's like—it's like as if you're in a courtroom and you have someone giving a testimony for someone bearing witness of someone else—they're giving a testimony—witness—and they're saying whatever they say I'm confirming them—I'm verifying them—okay—and the opposite—it's like a character witness—right—and the opposite to that is—you know the word liar—if I say that means I am—so the opposite—so how does this—do you agree—wait—do you agree first Abu Bakr uh agree with uh the the your meaning of Mosadic.

Yes. Do you agree with what we just explained to you? Cuz I spent about a minute doing it. I understand. But you agreeing with you? That's totally different. Yeah. But but if you but you have to agree because you don't know. You don't have the knowledge to—no the ignorance doesn't mean you agree to everything someone is is telling you.

No. Okay. So So you were just consulting with us with what the Arabic means. We told you what it means. So now you should go and check before you say anything else. Uh because what what I want to know is that um how come one scripture is confirming and protecting the previous scripture? How does one scripture does that? What's wrong with that? What's the contradiction? Let's say let's say you're—This is my question to you that—Let me tell—Let me tell you. Let me tell you. Let's say you're a witness. You're a witness. There's a witness protection program. The truth the truthful witness needs protection. What's wrong with that? A protection witnessing is a protection. How do you protect if uh if your witness your witness trying to escape the safe house? What do you do?

Yeah. Yeah. You protect them because they're truthful because other otherwise they won't be protected. There's no contradiction. You're a witness. There's no contradiction. Abu Bakr, this is stupid what you're—sorry. It's a silly argument. Not you with the argument. It's like saying why does—you're saying why does Allah need to protect the Quran? Like why would he need to protect this Quran if the Quran's truthful? That's what you're basically saying.

Yeah. Because what's what's the point of having protection if something is truthful? That doesn't make any sense. Yeah. Because Allah says he'll protect the Quran, too. So something can be both truthful and be protected at the same time. There's no tension there. They're both true at the same time. Makes sense. It's confirming and protecting. So, so note side note side note. Hey, hang on one second. One second. One second. One second. I just want to point out what what what why this is so hilarious. Um we say where's your Quran say that the Bible's been corrupted? It says—oh but it says—it says the Quran is confirming and protecting the previous scriptures. You see like what if I say I'm affirming—I'm I'm affirming—I'm confirming—I'm verifying and I'm protecting that. say, "Oh, that that's how you say it's been corrupted and can't be trusted anymore." Like, what? What? That's this is what I hear about like confirming and protecting something. I'm like, "Obviously corrupted." Obvious. Dr. David, Dr. David, based on your explanation is that the Quran is doing exactly what is very open. It's correcting mistakes in the Bible. Where where's he saying there's—Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Where does the Quran say it's correcting mistakes in the Bible? Just clarify chapter and verse, chapter and verse. Very simple. Look at the verse. Bring the verse. Chapter and verse. Chapter and verse. Correcting the mistakes in correcting the mistakes in chapter and verse. Show us one. But keep in mind, I want I want I want all you Muslims who are watching to to notice this. For some reason, you all think that there are all these verses in the Quran saying this, but watch what happens when we say, "Oh, you just said it." And you're all going, "Yes, that's what the Quran says." We say, "Okay, chapter and verse. Give us one. Give us a chapter and a verse that says what you just said." When we say the Quran confirms the Bible, we can quote you passage after passage after passage after passage after passage showing that we're right. But for some reason, you guys ignore all of that because you only believe in parts. The irony is that the part you supposedly believe in isn't even in there. So you you reject everything the Quran actually says, namely the entire thing. You reject the whole part and then you you invent part. And so what is this? It's like you're—it's like you're making up your own book and making up your own scriptures, which is exactly what the what what you think the Quran says about the Bible. It's not—it's not—it's what it's what you're doing. Let me give you ex exact example of how Quran is correcting the Bible.

No, no, no. Not an example, brother. Brother, not an example. Where does it say that it corrects it? Show us verse. Very simple. How does this work? Chapter such and such, verse number so and so. That's all you have to do. So to be clear, we're not asking you if the Quran talks about the beliefs of Christians and Jews and tries to correct those beliefs. We're talking about Does the Quran ever say that it corrects the books themselves? Not the interpretations or the beliefs, but the books themselves. Yeah. Because you you said Quran is doing that. Is it necessary for the Quran to say that I'm correcting this verse and here is supposed to be like this this this? Do you expect Quran to be like that?

You don't have a verse. Yeah, because the Quran said it's madak. The Quran says it confirms. So if it wants to correct, how is it confirming that that for the Quran to do that? That means will repeat the whole Bible and correct every single verse. Right, dude? It says I confirm it. That's how the Quran says I confirm. It says I confirm it. Over and over again. That's how I know. Hang on. Let let me find out what he's saying. Uh are you saying that we should only believe in parts of our book? Is that what you're saying? That some of it's been corrupted and therefore we should only believe in parts—you dude. Seriously, you do not understand. We—I'm completely serious when I say what danger you guys are. Keep in mind I don't believe you're in actual danger from your—but according to your—what your God says—you are in massive danger. If Islam for some weird reason turned out to be true somehow. I don't know how that would work. But if Islam somehow turned out to be true, everything the Quran accuses Jews and Christians of doing with their book, it's exactly what you guys do with your book. Muhammad said, "Every innovator will go to hell." And we're sitting here and we could quote you passage after passage after passage where Allah says he's confirming our scriptures and that we have to judge by our scriptures, that we still have our scriptures, that we have no ground to stand upon unless we stand fast by our scriptures, and that we had better not just pick and choose and only believe in parts. We have to believe in all of it or he will send us to hell. This is as clear as day. I can't think of anything in the Quran that's actually clearer than it is on this topic. And yet you will say the exact opposite. And then you'll make things up and say, "Oh yeah, it says your—it says your your Bible's been uh changed and the Quran is correcting all the errors." And we say, "Where where does it say that?" You can't show us any verse. Why? Because it's just a myth. It's fake. It's fairy dust. It's not real. It's a lie that da guys tell you. It's actually a lie. You're being a flat out lie. And you don't care. Your your own religion says you're going to hell for what you're doing right now and you just don't care. And that's shocking to us. Dr. David. Dr. David. If the dog is barking, do you think you need someone to say to you, "This dog is barking"—for you to understand this dog is bing.

Yeah. But the answer is the opposite. The—I want to give you an example. Quran correcting the Bible, but you're not giving me the chance to do that.

Hey, hey, hey, that's fine. Let's let's stick with your dog barking example. If if I if you're saying if I hear the dog barking, do you need a dog barking? You need someone to tell you this dog is barking? Hang on. If I hear a dog barking, do I need someone to tell me the dog is barking? No. But if you bring a revelation that says 487 different times the dog is not barking, I would say you got a problem. Hey, hey, Abu Bakr. Abu Buck. told you Quran is correcting errors in the Bible. I want to give you an example of Quran correcting the Bible. Time out. Time out. Time out. Time out. Time out. Abu Bakr, listen. We hear your point. You're saying that the Quran uh corrects some things in the Bible, right? Um does does the Quran say that that the Bible says like what it's correcting—like that it's wrong? Does the Quran say that? Like for example, um if the if the Quran say—if the Quran says that Jesus didn't, you know, he was neither killed nor crucified, right? But the gospel says he was crucified. Does the Quran say that the gospel got this wrong? It doesn't say that because you have a brain, you have to reflect, you have to think. So if everything and we just read and we give we we live at that.

No, I got you. I got you. So, if everything we read in the Quran says it's confirming the gospel, the gospel is true. Judge by the gospel. Stand on the gospel. The gospel is true. What they have in their hands of the gospel is true. We confirm it. Believe in the gospel and believe in everything that Allah has revealed. We see that consistently. But then we see a place where the Quran disagrees with the gospel. Wouldn't that mean that the Quran got it wrong? like it's it's contradicting a a book that it says it's true.

Good point. Sounds like a dilemma. It's to me you you are you you are choosing the uh the ayat which is sweep your position and the other everywhere. Let me let me finish. Let me finish. It's not everywhere because the it is everywhere all over the place. For example, in Exodus 31:17, I think—no verse. My goodness. Abu Bakr, let me try something with you. Okay. So, you as the next guy, you asked what's up. We're we're going to move on to the next guest after you try this angle. Okay. Okay. Okay. After this. Okay. So, you asked us about 279. You asked about Mosad. Okay. Let me ask you a question now. Let's ask you about a verse in the Quran. Before I do though, do you know anybody who has the Quran memorized? Like when you go to the mosque, you hear the he he recites the Quran, right?

Yes. And he has the true recital of the Quran. Correct. Yeah. He has called. So So that what that means is he has the true recital. You believe that means that he's reciting it exactly how Muhammad had it, right? Like exactly how it was revealed to Muhammad. That's how he's reciting it. That's he has a true recital, right?

Yeah. Okay, great. So, let's go to chapter 2 verse 121. Chapter 2 verse 121 in the Quran says that the Jews and the Christians have the book and they recite it with its true recital. So, my question is if—Yeah, the book was corrupted. How do the Christians and Jews have the true recital in their day in Muhammad's time? If it's been corrupted, how is that possible?

Yeah, because you know uh I don't have direct answer to your question to be honest, but um no one does. What is—welcome to the welcome to the beautiful world of the Islamic dilemma. Thank you for being honest. That's the problem. That's the problem. Abu Bakr, the Quran says those that we've given the book, do you hear that word means truth, they recite true recital, they recite it, its true recital, all present tense at the time that these verses were descended on Muhammad. You go to the—if you go to the taps it will be even worse for you because they say they don't—they don't misinterpret it—they don't corrupt it—said that they say they don't change the words from their places—they don't—who—and this group of people of the book Allah loved so much—so is the angel recitable—yes—yeah—recite—just another word—wait—your Quran says it is—are you are you just reading the Quran—I know—I'm asking—Yes. Yeah. We recite—we recite the—we

Recite the in Yeah, we recite it. I read it. I recite it. Which language? It doesn't matter which language. The Quran says they recital. Yeah. The the Quran says that. So, are you denying the Quran now? No, I'm not denying it. Okay. She's trying to asked you guys. I didn't ask the Quran because the Quran has all the answers. If you It doesn't. It's got the wrong answers for you and the right ones for That's it. That's it. Abu Bakr, you know, I love you, man. Thank you for coming up again. You know, you're welcome anytime. Okay, Abu Bakr. Hey, just have to Yeah. Just have to point out everyone for again for all you Muslims who are watching and you really think the Quran affirms not the reliability of our scripture but that our scripture has been corrupted.

Notice how simple we're making this. Just chapter and verse where we're talking about surah 2. We're talking about surah 2. Chapter and verse where it's simple chapter such and such. Surah 2 preferably since that's what we're talking about. Verse such and such. Because we can give you a bunch of verses verse after verse after verse from this chapter alone. Let alone other chapters confirming our scriptures. And so if if Allah is saying the opposite, it seems like he should just at least mention it in one verse, if he's got all these verses saying um saying one thing and it's crystal clear what he's saying and you say, "No, he's saying the opposite." It seems like you should be able to show us one single verse. He should have made one at least one verse somewhere in there that says what what you claim it says and you can't show it. It's weird.

All right. So, we got uh we got a guest, but before we get to the guest, I want to read a couple super chats here. Let's get through a couple of these. Um, let's see here. So, we got Steu says, "After two long weeks of fighting, my prayers were answered and I was allowed to take a half day to go to church for Good Friday." Praise the Lord. Awesome, man. Awesome. Awesome. Awesome. Good stuff. Uh, we got uh Cooper Industries who says, "Where can we buy the Quran?" Chris, love the panel. uh talking about uh St. Marad's Quran. Oh, um you can it's probably best just to Google St. Morad Quran translation. Uh well, it's not really a translation. Quran. Um how would you how do you describe it? St. Morad Arabic Quran. If you search that, you'll probably find a link to his page where you can buy it. He has a buy me a coffee page, I believe, where you can buy it there and he'll give you uh a PDF of it. You can also go on my channel, uh Chris Speakers Corner. I have a live stream where I chat with St. Morad. We did two live streams together and you'll find the link on those live streams. Awesome. Awesome. Awesome. Judith uh is is care not says happy good Friday brothers. Ed Sheeran as well. Ed Sharon. Nice. Nice. Toyardi says the whole Quran is Mickey Mouse stories full of contradictions inconsistencies and plagiarisms and falsehoods. He uh the panel the panel could write a better Quran. You guys should see life's Quran. Life made a few verses like it and asks Muslims about it. And some of them say it sounds like the Quran is so hilarious when he does it. Oh my gosh. Quran only fans says Allah's Allah should uh should have given his revelations to the people of the bookshelf. The BS uh they'd have preserved them. When are you converting God logic? Oh, hi Blondie. A blondie. Uh never never never. Rick says, "Hi, Jai and DLC. What is coffee in Arabic?" Uh, in standard Arabic you say in different dialects you can say a gah all sorts of different ways. See, you just see you just proved the preservation of the Quran. The different of Arabic. It is it is dialect. You see perfect preservation. They're all from Allah. We got a St. Fina who says a random dude under a palm tree sipping camel pee tough. We got Manuel who says God Logic the Dizzle Chris and Giant DLC 434 that like button people. God bless you all. Yeah, everybody make sure you guys hit the like button. We got 3,300 people watching. Let's get to 3,000 likes. I'm seeing that the likes aren't matching the viewership. So, you know the drill. If you do not hit the like button, we know that you're secretly kissing a black stone. So, don't out yourself. All right? Hit that button like you fear disobedience. Seriously, stop playing games. All right, one more before we get into it. Rex says, "God bless you all. Always remember Muslim logic equals read blind and listen upside down." Okay, let's get into it. We got um what do you want me to call you, man? Spider-Man or Batman? Which one? Uh you can call me Batman. Batman. I'll call you Batman. All right. Welcome to the stage, Batman. You are a Muslim, by the way, right? Yeah, I'm a Muslim. All right. Awesome. Awesome. Awesome. All right. Welcome to the panel. I'm pretty sure you've been hearing everything. What What's your thoughts? You got an argument. Uh can I talk to you? You broke up. Jeremy, I got a phone call. My bad. Uh so can I talk to David? You can talk to all of us. Okay. So why are we ignoring every other verse in the Quran like 513, 5-16, right? Why are we ignoring Bkari 7363 where it says that Abb says why do you ask the people of the book anything right when you read the Quran pure or amar is this aan or amar no this is Batman it's one of so it's it's Amar sounds like why you going to kick me out are you scared well if you're honest I won't kick you out if you lied to yeah it's Amar it's Amar okay I'll give you a chance go ahead all right thank you why are you ignoring Bkari 7363 where it says that why do you ask the people of the book anything when Allah has already told you that people of the book corrupted distorted, sold and wrote their scriptures. Why are we ignoring 5:13 to 16 where it says that the people of the book they concealed and hid and took things out of their scriptures and the prophet Muhammad was coming to them to reveal the things which you have taken out of the scriptures? I don't get why we're uh Yeah. Yeah. So, are you going to address my points? Go ahead.

Yeah. Very simply, um we're focusing on surah 2 because we all just went through surah 2 and we're making videos on surah 2 and surah 2 contains verse after verse after verse. You go 40 to 44. You go um 85, which which where Allah says if Jews only believe in part of the book and not all of it, he will send them to hell. You've got uh verse 89, verse 91, verse 101, and so on. It just keeps going. And Allah keeps insisting, I'm confirming what you have. I'm confirming what you have. I'm confirming what you have. Muhammad's confirming what you have. Muhammad's confirming what you have. Don't believe in parts of it. Don't pick and choose. If you pick and choose, I will condemn you to hell. And so we're saying, okay, if Allah is revealing this entire chapter, this entire chapter where over and over again he's affirming the inspiration, preservation, and authority of the previous scriptures, then wouldn't it be great if there was like one verse in there where he said something different? And the fact that you immediately insist on going to another chapter, which isn't going to help you, but guess what? We're going to be doing the same thing with Surah 5. We're going to be doing another show that is just on surah 5. But interestingly, apart from that, you do what? You go to the hadith. You go to the hadith. So Abbas now trumps what Allah said. So according to you, according to you, what Abbas is saying is your previous scriptures have been corrupted. Therefore, only parts are true and parts are false. And so you should only believe in parts and you should reject parts. And you're saying that Abbas is saying that's what Allah says in the Quran. When Allah says the exact opposite in the Quran. So just just answer me the question. If Allah says one thing and Iban Abbas says the exact opposite, who should I go with according to you? Yeah, Ibn Abbas gets it from the prophet. They don't make it up from Whoa, whoa, whoa, wait. Can I respond? Can I respond? Can I respond? Hello? So So just to just to be clear, you're saying you're saying that Muhammad contradicted contradicted Allah. So just so just to be clear, if Allah if Allah if Allah says believe in all your scripture, not just parts of it, and Muhammad says, by the way, I'd love to see where Muhammad said this, but if Muhammad says, oh no, only believe in parts. You're saying I should believe in Muhammad, not in Allah. Clearly saying, if you only believe in parts of your scripture, I'm sending you to hell. And you're telling us to only believe in parts. And you're saying only believe in parts. And Allah says, if you only believe in parts, I'll send you to hell. The reason I'm bringing this up is uh in uh when when ma ma when Muhammad was receiving the he had received the revelation about Jews and Christians uh taking their rabbi priests and rabbis as lords someone objected and said what they don't they don't worship their priests and rabbis and Muhammad's response was when Allah says something and they listen to a person instead of what Allah says they're worshiping that person you're worshiping that person and so according to Muhammad himself if Allah says one thing and you believe a man who says the who says the opposite, you're worshiping that man. And so when Allah says, "If you only I'm affirming what you have. I'm affirming what you have. I'm affirming what you have." By the way, in reality, Muhammad did the exact same thing. He told the He told the Jews, "Bring me the Torah." They brought him the Torah. He said, "I believe in you and in the one who revealed." Weak hadith. Weak hadith. That's not is still pretty. Yeah. Even Yeah. I'll explain. So, we don't get back to your point. So, you made some points. I'm going to address all of them. I'm going to repeat them with ease. First of all, Ibnb Abbas is a mufaser. He's an exeet, meaning he gets it from the prophet. Ibn Abb is not walking around saying, "Hey, this is my interpretation of the Quran." No, he's getting it from the prophet. Ab was alive when the prophet Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because Ib Abbass lived with He lived with the prophet Muhammad wasallam. He met, he saw, and he learned from him. He is a muid, meaning he learned from the prophet. So, wait, I didn't interrupt you. I didn't interrupt you. I didn't interrupt you. No, hold on. I didn't interrupt you, man. Hang on. Hang on. No, one at a time. That's fine. That's fine. But no, but he made six points. I want to respond to you. Let's focus on one. Yeah, let's focus. Let's focus on Yeah. I know. I'm saying before you move on, before you move on, just clarify something. Why does Muhammad say if if Muhammad is saying the scriptures have been corrupted, the scriptures of the Jews and Christians have been corrupted, why does he say in Jammity that Jews and Christians still have the Torah and the Gospel? And he's saying that in context, he's saying he's tells the Muslim community, "Knowledge is going to depart from you." And they say, and the response is, how's knowledge going to depart from us when we recite the Quran? And Muhammad's response is, Jews and Christians have the Torah and the Gospel, don't they? Oh, don't forget to forget of your mother. Yeah. May be bererieved of your mother. That's what he actually says to the guy. So he's saying, "Hey, knowledge is about to depart from the Muslim community." Yeah. And he says this and they say, "What are you talking about? How can knowledge depart from us when we have the inspired, preserved, authoritative word of God? How does this make any sense, Muhammad? He says, "May you be bererieved of your mother." Jews and Christians have the Torah and the gospel, don't they? What? That that only makes sense. That only makes sense if what he's saying is they have reliable scripture and yet they're not following it. No. No. Yet knowledge has departed from us. If you're saying he's saying our scriptures have been corrupted, then that's that would that would mean that the Quran is being corrupted. I got you. It would have to be. Yeah. No problem. So So the point is you're quoting Iban Abbas. He's contradicting Allah. He's contradicting. Let me tell you, man. Relax. I'll tell you. I'll tell you everything and I'll refute you with these inshallah. So, you're sticking only to chapter 2, which is ironic because if I pull up John 17:3, you're going to pull up John. Wait, wait. Whoa, whoa, whoa, wait. Are you good? Are you good? Are you good? Are you good? Can I finish? You didn't realize what this I want. Yeah, I want I want everyone to notice too. We're saying look, can we focus on something? If you Yeah, I'm going to get to it. Wait. You made a live stream. If you made a live stream saying, "Let's just look at John chapter 17 and just look at that alone. Oh, 173. 173. But listen, anyways. Anyways, to get back to your point who hang on to get back to your points. Hang on. No, no, no, no. Now you're flat out lying. Now you're flat out lying about us. We're talking David. What's wrong with you? Can I speak? We're talking 286 verses. He's talking to the Jews. This is talking to the Jews over and over again. And he's saying, "I affirm your scripture. I affirm your scripture. I affirm your scripture." And then Muslims come along later, 14 seconds later, and say, "Oh, yeah. He's saying it's been corrupted. We're saying, where are you getting that from in this chapter? Where?" And you're saying, "Well, don't go to that chapter. Go somewhere else. Go to your boss." That's what we're saying. Yeah. We read the Quran from a holistic standpoint. Meaning that we take the Quran in its entirety. We don't only stick to one verse. David, I'm sure you know this because we've debated the Quran in its entirety. Hold on. Parts. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Relax. Can I speak? Hello. Are you good? Go ahead. Cook them. Go ahead. Cook. Do you guys Look, let me cook. Let me cook, man. Hey, do you know why everyone is laughing right now? Because we sit here and we quote dozens of verses to you. any of that and then you say, "Oh, we're taking it holistically." Yeah. So, yeah, you're throwing it out holistically. You're throwing out the entire thing. That's what you're doing. I got you. I'm going to try to speak again for I think now it's the fifth or sixth time. Hopefully, I can get a sentence in. Just don't say something that's false. Okay. Well, you said a lot of things that are false, but I'm not interrupting you. Zero things that are false. You did. You butchered the Quran in chapter 2, verse 74, but I got or 79 or whatever. I got We're butchering it. I'll tell you, man. Let me speak. 279, man. Go for it. That's it. That's actually on topic. We're interested. Break it down for us. 279. Yes, that's on topic. You've got it. We're ready for it. Awesome. Come on. Come on, guys. This is not how you have a discussion. Come on. Let me speak, man. Come on. So, again, I gave you Abbas, right? Who is a mufest? Who is a mufest? Yeah. So, yeah. You don't want to go to chapter five cuz you know it's going to cook you after we told you to talk about 279. You I'm going give the test. Okay. on 279. Okay. Nice. So, so 279. So, now he's talking about top seer now. Abs. You said Abbas gives the top seer. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. He does. Yeah. Yeah. All right. All right. Go ahead. Abbas, right? He gives us of two of He's a mufest. Are you Are you good? He's afraid who doesn't understand Abas can say the exact opposite of what the Quran says. And that means stopping, not Allah. Everyone, everyone, this is the religion of Abas, not Allah. Do not listen to Allah. He's a liar. Abas speaks the truth. There we go. All right. Go ahead. I know Muhammad Hijab still got you scarred, but you can relax. All right. So, if you go to 29, isn't he in the hotel right now with one of his? Yeah, he got you. He got you traumatized, bro. Relax. Traumatized wife. I'm very traumatized with my ma wife. Rents free. Runs free. You You agree with Muhammad a job that Allah praise? Runs free. Runs free. No, Muhammad Hijab mispoke. No problem. David spoke. Yeah, I can say that. Yeah, David. He misspoke when he banged his mouth. So, Muhammad Hijab misspoke when he cooked David. No. So, in general, I'll tell you. I'll tell you. I don't know why we're switching topic now, but yeah, you brought it up. What is this? No. Muhammad Hijab destroyed David and he made out of out of his whole Can I Can I answer? Hello. Hello. Can I answer? Am I affirming that Allah prays? Yeah. Yeah, I'll tell you. So Muhammad Hijab in Muhammad Muhammad destroyed David right in general. Anyone anyone anyone who watches the debate can come to that conclusion. Can you wait? Can you wait? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're God praise. Yeah. Jesus prays. You're God praise too. Please help. This is what happens when these guys can't. Yeah. So anyways, to get back to my answer that they don't want to listen to you. Let's get Let's get to the answer, man. Let's start off Let's start off clean. Let's start off clean. So thank you. logic. You're breaking down the tops of 279. You got Abbas on your side. You said go ahead. Break it down. Ab says inah 7363. You're recording 294 where he says that. Why do you ask people to book anything when Allah has already told the people slow down because you're you're speaking way too fast, bro. Just take your time. All right. All right. Never mind. Yeah. Yeah. So, right. I'm speaking fast by the way because I was being interrupted multiple times. But anyways, you won't be interrupted. Just take your time cuz we got people listening. You're going way too fast even for me. All right. My bad. My bad. Yes. So, Ibn Abbas, right, gives us of two uh was it 79, right? And Bkari 7363. Can you go ahead and open that up for me, please? Sure. Thank you. Go to Sah Bkari 7363. And tell me what Abz thinks of the scriptures. Go ahead. Do you sure you want me to tell you what he thinks? I love you. I love you, too. Authoritation. Yeah. Go to 7 7363 and read it out loud for David to the hadith. Yeah. Come on, Chris. He can't go to the Quran. It says the opposite of what he want you to the Quran like some some hadith that probably like came hundreds of years later. In hopes that it defends the Quran because the Quran is obviously saying something that I don't want. When did Abbas live, Chris? When did Abbass live? You know, bro, why would I trust an account that he supposedly said that's based on hearsay? Where do you where does he get it from? Why should I believe in the chain of Islamad as a valid form of science when no actual Can you give me a chain for the gospel? Can you give me a chain for the gospel? Yeah, of course we can. But why you why are you changing the topic? Yeah, because you're a hypocrite. Okay, so now you're insulting. Wait. Hello. Hello. I didn't insult. It's the truth. It's It's the truth. What? Anyways, logic. Hey. Hey, Chris. Isn't it funny? Isn't it funny? Uh, you've got all these verses in the Quran and we're quoting verse after verse after verse where it says the exact opposite of what he's claiming. I tried to go to chapter. He just abandons the Quran. Yeah. And then he says, "Who cares about what Allah says? Who cares about what Muhammad says? Let's go to what Abas wait a minute. Your source for that is two centuries after the time of Muhammad." And that's after Muslims really found out what's in the Bible and how it contradicts. You know, Batman, you know what you're proving here? You're proving that the hadith contradicts the Quran. Mhm. Yeah. That's the embarrassing thing. Yeah. Let me be your pastor. Let me tell you, let me let me teach you, bro. So, no problem. Okay. So, your logic, can you Logic. All right. Logic. Logic. Logic. Why are you jumping to the hadith? I'm I'm I'm tired. Because he can't go to he can't he can't. There's nothing in surah 2. You might dude. Just admit it at this point. Just admit it at this point. There's nothing in the consistent. In other words, here's all you have to say. The consistent uniform testimony of surah 2 in the Quran is that Allah affirms the inspiration, the preservation, and the authority of the previous scriptures. But here's the thing. Once you grant that, as you're basically doing by not just giving us chapter and verse that says what you're what you're claiming, then you're saying at best Abbas contradicted what Allah says or some other chapter or verse contradicts what Allah says here and that everything is just contradictory. So you're either siding with a man in which case you're worshiping that man according to Muhammad or you're saying that Allah contradicts himself because somewhere else in there he he said he said the opposite somehow. Uh none of that helps you. None of that would help you at all get out of the Islamic dilemma. All right. So, I'm about to bring about to bring you back up, Omar. But keep it cool, man. Keep it chill. Oh, by by the way, we we we already know and doc are gonna We've been we've been extremely nice by just granting what I based, but yeah, you want to let them go. Yeah. If you want to look at what I mean, this guy's just trying to clip for him. He's like, "Oh, I debated David Wood and and all this other." So, that that's fine. So, we know he's not serious, but for people who are serious and they really want to know what Abbas said, if you just want to put this on the screen real quick and you guys can continue with him. This is what Abbas said. According to who? Abkari. According to Ibikir, check it out. Reported that Abbas said that the means they alter and add. Although none amongst Allah's creation can remove the words of Allah from his books, they alter and distort the apparent meanings. Oopsie. Look here. It says the Torah and the remain as Allah revealed them and no letter in them was removed. Yeah. So, actually this is Quran X of Surah 378. It's online and it's translated already. So, we didn't even need to translate it. Muslim translation. Let him come up now. So, keep it cool, man. Stop throwing a little insult. Stop, you know, doing all the little antics, bro. Like, be serious up here. Like, that's what works for that's what works for his community. Yeah. Let's let's hear us a a real rebuttal because there's a lot of Muslims in here that really want to to this to be refuted like this this dilemma. They're asking all you guys about all the DA guys about it. Here is y'all's real chance to debunk it. So, stop the antics. I'm giving you a chance to give a real reputation, man. So, let's go. Let's be serious. Amar, what you got? All right. All right, guys. Hopefully, I can get more than a sentence in without David losing his uh cool. I wish you could get get a sentence without whining. Five five. Yeah. So 513, right? I gave you 513 to 516. Hold on. I'm not going to chapter 5. Oh my goodness. Basic instructions. This is an admission everyone. Yeah, but Abest Wait, but wait but wait but wait but wait but wait but wait but wait but wait but wait but wait but wait the bus is not surah. No no no I'll tell you. I'll tell you. I'll explain to you. So the bus is surah. That's why it's called surah the bus. No no no he's not. Don't worry. Let's let him go. Let's let him go. Go ahead. Please please please give me like more than 10 seconds man. Holy. Go ahead. So for 279 the one that David is holding right in the sky like it's the best. Okay. So yeahb says right inki 7363 right where he's giving the tap for 279. Can you please now I think I asked you three times logic can you please pull up the hadith for everyone to read. Okay. Thank you. Watch this guys who are watching. I don't know why you would go to Iban Abbas. I don't know why you would go to Abbas. Bro you guys. You went to Iban Abbas. Why would you guys bring up Iban Abbas? I'm just trying to talk about surah too. No, no. Cuz I'm saying Abbas

Is going to cook you guys. Cuz I'm saying Iban Abbas is going to cook you guys. No, he's not. You think he is. And that's what's cracking us up. You're cooking yourself here. You're slow. I've studied this too long. You're not going to be me. Slow roasting yourself. Go ahead. Go ahead. We'll see. We'll see.

Can you read 73 for me?

Yeah. I I'll let you read it. I'm going share it on the screen though.

Okay. Thank you. Perfect. All right. Here it is. Perfect.

So, David, can you please read the first two words for me?

What is it?

Omar, can you read the the hadith and stop playing? I just I would love for David just to read the first you got you got seconds to go ahead and read it or I'll move on.

Ibn Abbas says

Okay, I'll read it. No problem.

Ibn Abbas

Huh. Huh?

He said, "Why do you ask the people of the scripture?"

Yes. Yeah. Why do you ask the people of the scripture anything while your book the Quran has been which has been revealed to Allah's messenger sallallahu alaihi wasallam is newer, right? And the latest you read it pure, undistorted, and unchanged. And Allah has already told you.

Huh? I wonder what verse he's talking about. Allah has already told you. The scripture. Yeah. That the people of the scripture, the Jews and the and the Christians, what did they do? They changed their scripture. They distorted it. They wrote the scripture with their own hands. And they said it is from Allah to sell it for a little gain. Does not the knowledge which has come to you prevent you from asking them about anything? No. By Allah, we have never seen any man from among them asking regarding what has been revealed to you. Subhan Allah.

So it looks like Abbas actually thinks that the Jews and the Christians, they corrupt their scripture, they wrote their scripture, they sold their scripture, and they changed it with their own hands. What verse in the Quran says they changed with their own hands?

David 279. Thank you. No verse in No verse in the Quran says they changed the text of the scripture. Let me just finish real quick. I I'll I'll end.

So then I brought you The reason why I'm going to another chapter, right, is because I'm giving you extra evidence to show to support my claim, to support my argument. Okay? If you don't want that, I mean, I don't really care, right? But 5:13 to 5:16 agrees with me perfectly. What does it say? It says they destroyed the scripture. They wrote it down with their own hands and they sold it. And 5:14 says, "And from those who say we are Christians, the Christians," Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Where did it say that?

Yeah. 5:14 it says, "From those who say we are Christians, right? We took their covenant." So meaning we did the same thing we did with the children of Israel, right? They neglected a portion of what they have been commanded.

But you said you said you said you said you said they changed it. wrote wrote down the changes.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Say that. Yeah.

So two So I'm I'm I'm linking the two verses to show you that we can logically deduce.

Yeah. Well, Alhamdulillah, I have IQ. So I can link the two verses. But for breaking the You can make it up, huh?

No. No. So 5:13 says, "For breaking their covenant, we condemn them, right?" What did they do? They distorted the words of the scripture and and they neglected and they neglected.

Yeah. According to 79 with their hands.

No, no. According you you jumped to chapter five. You jumped to chapter five. Right. So where does it how does it say they distorted anything? It's they're linked by the link I'm showing you is it's not linked about anything. How does it say that they distort?

Yeah, they distorted with their hands with their tongues. They distort with their hands in chapter 5.

Uh uh Absham just just really quick just Omar I'm giving you a perfect opportunity to make your point clear here. Thank you. Logic in chapter 5:13. Yeah. Does it say that they distort with their hands? And chapter 5 verse 13, right? It says that they distort the words of the scripture. Does it say that they destroy with their hands?

Yeah. 279 tells you it's a simple yes or no. This is your last chance.

Yeah. Yeah. And 53 say they distort with their hands. So if we read the taps, right? Yes, it does. Yes, it does. If we read the Wait, what? If we read the it does, but not the verse. The Arabic, the actual Arabic of 513 doesn't say specifically of the perfectly clear Quran. Perfectly clear Quran. It doesn't say that they distort with their hands. It doesn't say how they distort, but continues to talk about how they forget a portion and they're abusing the covenant, guys. Whoa, look at that. Wow.

By the way, the only way they can abuse the covenant is if they actually have the ability to follow the covenant, which would imply they still have the teachings of the prophets with them, i.e. in their scriptures. So, that verse actually backs up us. It makes you look very foolish, let alone the rest of the chapter. Because keep in mind, this is right before Jews come to Muhammad to settle a dispute in verse 43. And Allah says, "Why are they coming to you? It makes no sense. Why are they coming to you, Muhammad? They've got the Torah." And then a few verses later, "Let the people of the gospel judge by what Allah has revealed therein." And then the Quran is the guardian over the previous scriptures. How? By sending people back to their scriptures. But according to our friend here, according to our friend, um Allah had said right before this, "Oh, by the way, your scriptures are are garbage. Don't don't go with those. Y'all need to go with the Quran. Why would you and and Ib and Abbas says, "Why would you go with your scripture? Why would you go with the early scriptures when you got the Quran? Those earlier ones are corrupted." So he's so Allah is supposedly saying that the Bible's been corrupted right before all these passages where he says Jews don't need Muhammad. They've got the Torah. Christians don't need Muhammad. They've got the Gospel. And right before Allah says that the people of the gospel have no ground to stand upon unless they stand fast by the Torah, the gospel and all the revelation that has come to them. Once again, best case scenario, Allah would be massively contradicting himself, like completely insane. Your scriptures have been corrupted. And that's why you have to judge by them and never deviate from them. And definitely don't go to Muhammad because he can't add anything to your scriptures which are already perfect. Allah would be insane.

Well, what we're what we're doing is we're assuming that Allah is not completely insane. We're assuming that the author of the Quran is not completely insane in the course of revealing one chapter. And therefore that if he clearly affirms the inspiration, preservation, and authority of the Jewish and Christian scriptures throughout a chapter, we're assuming that earlier in the chapter he's not saying it's been corrupted, provided provided there's an interpretation that doesn't involve corruption because that would make no sense and he'd be contradicting himself. So we're saying look, Allah is clearly, by the way, this is a fundamental principle of scriptural interpretation. Don't go to ambiguous passages. So, this this this passage about uh Jews and Christians distorting the scripture, there's two ways that could be. That could be that could be corruption of the actual text or it could just be they're distorting it with their speech as in Surah 3:78 where it says they they twist the scriptures with their tongues. It's talking about corrupting it in our interpretations and in misrepresenting what the text said like Muslims do when they talk about what the Quran says about the Bible. They they distort it. Right? So, um, what what is he saying in Surah 5 13-15? You could you could argue either way just based on that. It's it's saying they distort the scripture. So, is it saying they distort it by changing the text or is it saying they distort it with their speech? That's ambiguous. What Muslims do is they go to ambiguous passages that could be interpreted either way. They give it the interpretation they want and then they use that to rule out and override the clearest verses which are clearly affirming the the the reliability of the text. That's the opposite of what you're supposed to do. You're supposed to go to the clearest verses where Allah is affirming the inspiration, the preservation, and the authority of our book. And then if you find passages that are ambiguous, what's he talking about? We distort the scriptures. Is it talking about in our speech or is it talking about changing the text? Exactly. And you say, "These are the clear verses. We can't go around the clear verses. The clear verses affirm their scriptures. And therefore, we have to go with the interpretation that doesn't make Allah insane. So that's what we're saying. Go with the interpretation that doesn't make your god completely insane and constantly contradicting himself. And what Muslims are saying is no, always go with the interpretation that makes that makes Allah completely insane and makes him uh have some sort of cosmic Tourette's syndrome and makes him contradict himself. And we're saying why would you do that to your own god in your own religion?

So, so basically here just to clarify what was going on with Omar and his point, he ran to Ibn Abbas in a hadith, right? Where they say where it seems like Ibn Abbas is saying that yes, the scriptures have been changed and corrupted uh textually. They write books with their own hands and yada yada yada. Even though let's just grant that that's the interpretation of what says. David and Chris's point was okay grant that to you. So you have Im Abbas contradicting what Allah and Muhammad said then. So we could give that to you. You can have that hadith. You can have that interpretation. So you got Iban Abbas going against the words of Allah. Who do I go with? Because according to chapter 2 of the Quran, the per the books are preserved. They're clear. They're true. Um they have them in their possession. But Abbas wants to come and say, "Ah, well, no, that's actually been changed and distorted. So, we're gonna stick with what Allah says. You can have ibn Abbas. We're gonna stick with what with Allah. Is that right, Chris?

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely, man.

Um I think that was that was terrible. And uh Omar, are you still there?

Hey, one second. I just want I just want I just want to add one point to what uh uh what what uh God Logic was just pointing out. One additional thing that Giant Doc pointed out is you have inconsistencies in the Muslim sources about what Abbas says. So, oh, he's saying this in the hadith. Well, I can show you we can show you other passages from Ibn Abbas where he says, "No one can change Allah's words in in the scriptures." And so, you're dealing with later later sources that are inconsistent. They can't even agree on what Ibn Abbas was saying. But you're say you're going to pick and choose which one you want to believe. So, oh, Abbas said this over here. Nope. Can't believe that. That must be that must be wrong. Let me find what Ibn Abbas says here that I agree with. And then I'll take what I Abbas says and use that to replace what Allah and Muhammad say. And it's like what? What is this religion? That is exactly what Allah says you're going to hell for. And I don't know what to do, man. Picking and choosing.

Yeah. We've had like no answer to surah 285, right? Where it talks about taking parts, dissecting it, cherrypicking this verse over this verse. That's what they want us to believe. And we've had no one come up here to give an answer on how that makes sense, on why they're not doing exactly that when they try and tell us that the Torah and the Injul have been corrupted. We had no answer because there is no answer. And just just just uh just just one one final little point because this is this is ongoing when you have passages in the Quran. And by the way, everyone is watching the actual position of the Quran is that no one can change Allah's scriptures, but that people distort them. They they misinterpret and misrepresent them when they're talking. Keep in mind, uh most people in the ancient world couldn't read. And so if you wanted to know what a scripture says, someone has to tell you what it says. Well, guess what? If I'm the if I'm the one who can read and I'm and you guys are all listening to me, I can kind of say anything I want and I can kind of change and twist the meaning. That's what the Quran condemns Jews and Christians for. The amazing part here, the absolutely amazing part is what the Quran actually condemns Jews and Christians for doing, misinterpreting and distorting our scriptures with our speech. That is what every single Muslim who calls in does about the Quran. They distort the Quran. The Quran is Allah saying, "I affirm your scriptures and no, he's saying he's corrupted your scriptures." But he says right here, "But who cares? We got him and a boss over here." But I a boss can't even You can't even You Your sources don't even agree on what I Abos says. But we have to You're distorting the scriptures with your speech. And you just don't care. You just don't care that your religion says you're going to hell for that.

And then just to add to that, the Quran over and over again condemns those who conceal things. And I'm like, this is what Muslims are doing. They know in the Quran, it says over and over again, it is the Quran confirms what is with them of the previous scriptures, the book that is with them. It confirms it. It's inspired, preserved, and authoritative over and over again. Muslims know this. Muslim daer guys know this. And they conceal those verses. How ironic. And the Quran calls for a small price. For a small price. For a small price.

Yeah. By the way, uh even though we're not on chapter 5, but just to tie 513 to another verse, chapter 4:46, because 4:46 also says that they distort the words, twisting it with their tongues.

Yeah. What does it mean to distort the words according to the commentaries that he was appealing to?

Yeah. So the it's actually um like like just confirm what Dave was saying. Yeah. It's actually deceptive because the 513 it says they change the words from their places. That means speech and we have all saying that because it's the same phrase that is said in surah 446. The Jews used to do double on double on tandras double meanings like they even uh in the verse they used to say it's Muhammad which is a word in Arabic meaning something positive and in Hebrew it meant something negative that's what the Quran is saying that they're doing with the scripture they're saying it orally twisting it like for example if I say bark meaning dog and actually I meant bark meaning tree bark that's what they're doing with their tongues yeah just go on D yeah if you go to the interpretations they all say the same says about that phrase, it means the interpretation of what they're saying with their mouths. They they're tricking the people by changing the meaning as they're saying it, not the text.

So would this mean that in order for them to change and distort the meaning orally, they would have to have the actual correct meaning to begin with in order to distort it?

Exactly. And that's the Quran. It tells them why do you do that? And why do you conceal? Why do you conceal the true meaning? Concealing. How do they conceal something which they don't have?

Exactly. In order for this accusation to make sense, you you know, if if I accuse you of concealing evidence, you have to actually have evidence to conceal. Otherwise, it makes no sense me saying you're concealing evidence.

Yeah. And it keeps saying breaking your covenant, that means they still had the covenant.

Exactly. The covenant. All right. Enough of this echo chamber. We're gonna get some Bible to some people to cook you up in a second, guys. All right.

Michael in Christ says, "Consider me subdued. God bless you all. You all have been used by God to inspire me and many others in our witness against the dark doctrines of Islam. I praise God for giving this generation such impressive warriors to lead us and teach us in the defense of the gospel."

Thank you so much for your generosity, Michael. Appreciate you, man. appreciate you. God bless you. God bless you.

We got Aaron who says, "Islam is a whole lot of religion, a whole lot of topic changing, unnecessary storytelling, contradictions, we believe." Yeah, but getting caught on their own words, not answering, etc. A whole lot of tea soon. A whole lot of tea soon. Maybe. Maybe. Maybe. Yeah, maybe. Maybe. Maybe.

Let's see here. Let me get a couple more and then we'll move on to our next person. Patriotic Z says, "Salami, salami and bacon. Love all love all you guys. Have a great good Friday and Easterres Day." Uh, salami and Yeshua Akbar. That's right. Peace of the Messiah and Jesus is the greatest. God bless you all. Always remember Muslim. Oh, I read I read that one. Hold on. Let's see here. [Music] Um, this is funny. This is what I usually ask ask Muslims when they just can't get it, you know? I just you you good, man. All right, let's go ahead and uh Oh, we got Aaron Wise again. A whole lot of continued a whole lot of claims without evidence, being sensitive, defending something they don't understand, dancing/muslim shuffling, Quran only, but go elsewhere for fasting and prayer. A whole lot, man. A whole lot.

All right, let's bring up uh dudes. Dudes, how you doing?

As aim, awesome. Awesome. You're on stage, man. I don't know why you changed your name. Is that Shake Awesome?

No, it's not Shake. Awesome. No questions. You're a cuffer. Awesome. Going once, going twice. Get out of my house. Get out of my house, you cuffer.

Okay. Um, ranking rooms, you're on stage. You're a Muslim?

Yeah, I am. All right. Welcome to the panel, man. We're talking about Satu, you know. Um, you believe it teaches that the Bible's corrupted?

Yes. All right. What What you got for us? Where do you think it teaches that?

Well, I mean, it's same way the Jeremiah 88 teaches you that uh the Torah is corrupted.

Okay. So, where in does it teach Yeah. Where where in chapter 2 does it teach that the Torah or the Gospel is corrupted? You lied on Jeremiah. But maybe you'll tell the truth.

I lied on Jeremiah. How did I lie on Jeremiah? Tell me about Jeremiah. Give me chapter two. Give me Give me Prove that you're not lying about Surah 2 at least. If you want to lie about If you want to lie about Jeremiah, that's fine. I made a statement. You guys are telling me I've lied about Jeremiah. So tell me how I lied about Jeremiah. And then we'll go back to chapter 2. I'm telling you it's the same thing. Tell you you didn't just say You didn't just say Jeremiah. You said it's saying the same thing that Jeremiah is saying. So that means you're saying that Surah 2 says what Jeremiah is saying. So we're saying where does Surah 2 say what you're claiming that Jeremiah says? It's a simple question. Where where does If you guys are going to be clowns, it's going to be a very very short time on the panel for you guys. I like I I mean I I don't have this time to waste. You know what I'm saying? Uh we got uh you know almost 4,000 people watching. Make sure, by the way, guys, I forgot to say this. Everybody smash the like button. If you're entering here, if you're new here, subscribe. Uh the links to, you know, the the other panelists, their YouTube channels are in the description. So, go ahead and subscribe to them. But make sure you guys hit the like button. Help the uh live stream blow up. A lot of people need to see this. A lot of people are seeing it. Let's get more people in here. All right. We hit 4,000 once. We was at 4,000 at one point in the stream. Let's get to 4,000 again and let's keep it going. All right.

So, um ranking rooms, I'm going to give you another try. Don't waste my time. Do not be a clown. Don't be a bum. Where in chapter 2 does it teach that the Bible's corrupted?

No, no, hold on. What what's your concept behind chapter 2 right now? What's what what exactly is your argument here?

That it teaches the preservation and truth and confirmation affirmation of the Bible, the go the Torah and the Gospel.

Okay. But from uh the time of Paul to the council of Nika, you guys had changed the teachings, right?

All right. So if if the the books were removed verses were removed all the way to the council of Nika the scriptures were changed then you have the Quran affirming changed and corrupted scriptures by the seventh century chapter 2 doesn't confirm everything in the scriptures it confirms certain there it is right there can you show me a verse show me one verse matter of fact okay uh Chris you have that verse where it says do not pick and choose parts don't 2 285 285 right okay we're going to read we can do better than we can do way better Jai and DLC you mentioned was it two was it 120 or which which was oh 121 oh yeah 121 saying that they recite the book with its true recital I mean that's interesting you have to do that if it's corrupt right again you take you take over this one you yeah So it'd be pretty hard to recite the book with its true recital if it's been corrupted at the council of Nika. So how does that work?

No, I mean Jesus spoke Aramaic and you guys were it was uh not you guys but it was translated to Greek and Greek and you know he spoke. So how were people in how were people in Muhammad's time reciting where the true recital?

Yeah, Muhammad is after the council of Na. Muhammad is centuries after but how that's the point. The point is at the council na the teachings are changed verses removed books removed you have the same do you have the same Bible as everybody else how many Bibles you have council me hold on were gospels removed yes or no gospel of thus all this they're all removed right they were they were never in there what planet are you on dude it's like gosh these guys these guys hear a bunch of stuff from from dawa clowns and then they go out and spread it and they have no clue what they're talking if you one if you're saying this council of Nika had anything to do with selecting scriptures, you've already exposed yourself as having no clue what you're talking about. If you're saying the the Gospel of Thomas, the late second century Gospel of Thomas was removed from the Bible that it was never in, then you have no clue what you're talking about. We could talk about things being removed from the Quran like Uba Kab's two additional chapters that he had that aren't in your Quran today. We could talk about uh 200 verses coming up missing from surah 33. We could talk about we could talk about stuff out of the cor being removed from the you can't say that about the gospel of Thomas. You you I again I know this I know when you guys are talking amongst yourselves in your little echo chamber that this all makes sense. You you sound completely clueless. And by the way I want everyone to notice. Everyone who's watching to notice we had a simple challenge. Hey we can quote verse after verse after verse and we've just scratched the surface. It's all over the place in surah 2. We could show verse after verse after verse in surah 2 where Allah confirms the inspiration the preservation and the authority of the previous scriptures. And we're saying, can you guys give us one? I mean, if Allah is saying all this, I believe in your scriptures. I'm confirming your scriptures. You don't reject even part of your scriptures. Don't even reject one verse. You have to believe in all of it. If you reject any part of your scriptures, I'll send you to hell. He's saying as clearly as he can possibly say anything, that he's affirming our scriptures. And you say, "No, he's saying your Bible's been corrupted." We say, "Can you give us one verse? Can you just jump in there once in there?" And what do you do? Oh, but Jeremiah. Oh, but you know the council of my fear Paul all of that everyone who's watching notice that is an admission we've we've talked to multiple Muslims already asking them for one verse no one can give one this should this should be a lesson to you Muslims who are watching who might not be familiar with these issues you hear all your life from your dawa

Guys, yes, the Quran says the Bible's been corrupted, and we actually sit down and go, okay, let's let's go through it chapter at a time, chapter at a time. Show us; we'll show you what it says; you show us how it somehow means the opposite, and they can't do it. And every single time, they have to they have to go off topic. Ain't that interesting?

Abas, Jeremiah, Ron says Ron says you got to get some merch that says one verse. Lol. And then uh Mr. Mand dude says they removed the book of the council. This guy's sneaker level. That's what the Quran was confirming the book. All right. So he's gone. He's eliminated.

Guys, uh warning to the rest of the Muslims that's coming up here. Guys, please try to engage like human beings. Do not be robots. I I really don't have the patience. We really want to get some quality arguments, some at least some quality conversation. Let's get some rebuttals, some objections to, you know, chapter 2 teaching the preservation, affirmation, and preservation truthness of the uh previous scriptures. Give us something.

All right. Uh humble friend, you're on the stage. Are you a Muslim? Humble friend, you're on the stage. Mamakure going once, going twice. All right, Jaman, are you a Muslim?

Well, yeah. Um, I'm thinking about becoming a Muslim.

Oh, bad decision. No, no, no. That's a bad decision.

Okay. Yeah. Yeah. You're about to You're about to join a man who slept with a woman a little girl he calls a woman nine years old, um who uh cheated on his wives, who you know affirmed adultery with married captives as long as they're your captives and all kinds of stuff and whose and whose main revelation affirms the inspiration, preservation and authority of scriptures that completely contradict his revelation and therefore the entire religion self-destructs.

Well, also Islam aligns more with the true Christianity before it was corrupted by the Hellenistic.

When was it corrupted? By who? It was definitely corrupted.

Now, before before I answer that, let me just get to um this question about where does it affirm that?

So, you're not a Muslim, but you want to defend the Muslim position. Is that right?

Well, let me answer your original question and then I'll get to your question if you don't mind.

Yeah. I just want to make sure we're on the same page. So, you're not currently a Muslim, but you want to defend the Muslim position. Is that right?

Well, I like I said, I'm thinking about becoming a Muslim.

Okay. So, you're not a Muslim and you want to defend the Muslim position. Okay. Go ahead.

Okay. So, from what I've known, I've learned um about the Christian history, the origin of the Christian history, and there was various divisions. Now the

Did you learn about the Muslim divisions?

Well, if you don't mind if you don't mind interrupting me and let me finish then.

Well, we thought

Wait, wait. Why? Why you not interested in us? So, you're interested in the divisions that you're not answer your question. Your original You're interested in the divisions. You're interested in the divisions of the religion you're not going to follow, but you're not interested in the divisions that in the Islam that you are going to follow.

Well, I'm start I'm starting to learn more about Islam now.

Okay. Do you know any of his divisions? Since you're interested in Islam, do you know any of their divisions?

What I do know is that the Christianity is corrupt.

Dude, I'm asking all of them. I don't know all of them. This is saying that like you're saying, hey, if Christianity is false, that de facto makes Islam true. That sounds kind of like how you're thinking, which is wrong.

No, what I'm saying is that in the Quran it says that in the Quran it basically says that you the um Muslims should stick to the original scriptures.

What does it say? Original scriptures. Yeah. Where are those scriptures? Yeah. What does it say? That the scriptures are not the versions that you guys have. Can you show Can you give us a verse?

Yeah. Simple. Yeah. Simple. Chapter and verse. That's what that's by the way. Just so you know, that's exactly what we're asking. We have what Muslims say the Quran says, but when we say, "Okay, show us that," they they instantly start changing the topic. So, fortunately, we've got you and you're not a Muslim. Definitely not a Muslim. And so, you are you can actually show us because every Muslim we ask, they say, "Here's what the Quran says." And we said, "Can can you show us one verse that says that?" And they can't. They never can because it's not what the Quran says. But we talk to Muslims, but you're you're you're not a Muslim, so you won't do that. So, go ahead and give us chapter and verse, especially surah 2 because that's what we're focusing on.

Sir the previous scripture 279 279 279

What does that prove? Yeah. What is what is that pro basically that proves that uh Muslims should follow right the ebonite right that's the the lineage the line

What is 279? Let me explain; you guys keep interrupting me; can you you start talking about these crazy off-the-wall things you keep saying these crazy off-the-wall things you just you just said sir 279 says that they should follow the Ebianites. Where are you getting them from? Where are you possibly getting them? I'm trying to explain to you if you just give me okay okay so the Quran mentions the Ebianites

Yeah, I'm sure there's some connection. Let's see what the connection is. There is a connection. You see, the true um it's basically they Islam follows James the line.

Watch your head, man. Get out my stream.

Where does it say that? James. James. The Quran doesn't even know the word James, I don't think.

Yeah, James and the other. It's all right there. Surah 2 verse 79.

Muhammad Dawa, you're on stage, man. Welcome. Welcome to the panel.

Hello. Nice to meet you. I'm here.

Nice to meet you as well. You're a Muslim, right?

Hey, what's up? Alhamdulillah.

Like a joke. So, do you have a verse in Sarah Bakar that teaches that the previous scriptures have been corrupted or distorted in any way textually meaning?

Sorry. Uh I I'm not a I'm not a sh but uh I not come across this specific verse in the in the Quran that states such a fact. I not come across it.

Do you believe that the Torah and the Gospel have been corrupted?

I I believe that the the Torah and and the Gospel have some error. I not believe it completely corrupted. I believe there is some truth in the parts that we should

Part. One second. One second, guys.

So, why why did you uh switch your name up here?

Uh oh. Oh no. Uh oh. I just use my name because I actually uh

Why don't you talk like how you really talk?

David was right. That is a fake voice. Fake is not working. Come on. Use your real voice, man. He left. What are you afraid of? I I didn't even kick him. He left. He ran out of deception.

Deception. Yeah. Be become better with voices if you want.

Hey, I should call in as Ali Dawa. That'd be fun. come on your on your phone and just

All right, let's see here. Thomas, how you doing? You a Muslim?

Yep. Doing good.

Thomas, you're a Muslim?

Yes.

How long have you been a Muslim?

Around a year.

Been a Muslim for a year. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Do you believe that the uh previous scriptures have been corrupted?

Yes, for sure.

All right. Do you have a verse uh in chapter 2 that says that in surah al bakar?

Not well could be argued uh surah 2 verse 79.

Okay. However, the reputation the you know it's easy to refute your claims about 8 verse 85.

Oh, please do.

Wow. Yes, sir. You say right that the 85th verse of surah bakar says that the you know the Jews would go to hell if they only believe in parts right is that what we say or is that what says yeah that's what the Quran says yeah yeah that's just us reading all right so that's what the verse yeah so can you please tell me how that you know maybe indicates that it's fully preserved and that we have to follow that as Because if I tell you that you should not take something in part, and if you do, I'm going to condemn you to hell for it, that must mean that and I'm telling you to do what with it?

To take all of it.

Yes. Take it in part.

Yes. It tells the Jews to believe that, not us.

Okay. So, yeah, I'm fine with that. I'm fine with that, by the way. Yeah, absolutely. in the seventh century at the time of Muhammad Allah sorry who's supposedly revealing this Quran he's saying to those Jews why are you taking these things in part that's bad you're going to go to hell you need to take it in full in the seventh century what was that mean about the Torah it means that they should believe it even though it is corrupted because obviously what so Allah wants them to believe in the corrupts in the corrupted book and and and if they were if they were to ever within a million in a million years if they were to ever say, "Okay, let's look and find the corrupt parts," then they would only believe in parts of the book and he would send them to hell. So if they even try to figure out if they even try to figure out what's corrupt and what's not, then they go to hell. That's assuming that they that there are that they are Jews and believe in the Torah. But if we you're not you're not you're not helping yourself, man. You cooked yourself. you just told.

So let let's speak let's be clear. So what this verse is saying is that there's two commands that the Jews should be following. They're following one of those commands. They're not following both of the commands. You're telling us that it's possible that one of those commands is actually corrupt and the Jews should be following it anyway, right?

That yes, if a specific command is in the Torah and contradicts what is in the Quran and Sunna, yes, they should still follow.

Do you hear yourself talking? So your Allah is do you hear yourself talking? So your Allah is telling them to believe in a all of a corrupted book.

Assuming that they do not believe in Muhammad then yes Allah corrected it instead of saying go with a corruption. Shouldn't Allah corrected those parts? He told them to go believe all of it.

Yes. Yeah. Even though they're corrupted, they should still believe in it since they you either believe in it fully or you don't believe in it.

Okay. So thank you very much. So Allah tells people to to believe in a corrupted book and follow it. That's your God that you're following. It's not it's not an ex it's not, you know, overly overtly corrupted. Doesn't have any extremely problematic doctrinal things. Just certainly this is about commandments. This is about commandments. It's telling the Jews to follow the commandments and it's saying that they shouldn't just follow parts, but they should follow the entire thing. You're saying that there's some of it that's true and some of it that is corrupted and Allah wants them to follow partially corrupted, partially true scriptures. Where do you get that from? Where does the verse say that?

No, it's they they should follow what they believe is from God. Even if they don't believe it, they don't it says it they don't believe it. It says you should

Why do you only take the parts you believe in and disbelieve the other parts?

So, it's not saying that they believe the whole thing. It's saying they should believe the whole thing.

Yeah. So what if they're believing the parts that are true and disbelieving the parts are corrupted? You're saying, "Oh, no, they should believe the corrupted parts, too." Where do you get that from?

From the verse.

Where do you get that from from the verse? It says that they should believe in the corrupted parts because it says

No. Where does it say that? Where does it say that? Where does it say corrupt? It never does. That never says they're correct. You're in the book. I don't mean to interrupt, but incorrectly. I don't mean

No. This is This is quite amazing. I'm going let you guys continue, but just, you know, because I got to get my book out and I write the quotes down. So, 285, Allah is teaching them to, he's teaching the Jews to believe in corrupted scriptures.

All right. Okay. Just want to make sure, just so you know, Thomas, right? Would this be binding before the Quran was revealed to the Jews?

Before the Quran was revealed. Yeah. Would it be binding?

So the Jews have to believe in a corrupted book which by the way says things that are completely blasphemous from an Islamic paradigm. They have to believe in that prior to the Quran ever being revealed. By the way, the Quran also says in this same chapter in surah 2 that the Jews if they um if they are following their scripture properly will actually go to Jenna. So you're telling me that the Quran is saying that Jews that follow their scripture, their Torah properly before the Quran ever comes, before Muhammad even comes, right? They're following a corrupted blasphemous from Islamic paradigm book and they go to Jenna.

If they have sincere intentions to follow the truth and what they believed was revealed by God, then

So wait, wait, wait. So you're saying that a Jew could go to heaven purely because they just tried to be what? Like a good person. Doesn't matter what they actually believe. It doesn't matter if the Torah was corrupted and it told them to like go and do horrific things. doesn't matter because does agree with the general concept of monotheism.

It does.

No. Wait, wait, wait. It also says that the children of Yahweh. The Torah agre. I thought the Jews believe that Ozer is a son of Allah.

Yeah. Your Quran says that they they say a man is a son of Allah. That's perfect monotheism.

Some of the Jew some of the Jews said that. Yes. It's a sum of the Jews.

Did it say some? Uh yeah, it never said that all Jews. It never says all. It never says some. What does it say? What does the verse say? It just says the Jews say that said that you know was son of Allah. So you're adding words into the Quran saying some. So that's that's uh something you've been doing a lot. You're adding words.

But I think you see the I think you see the problem here. The problem is is that you are saying that your God is not telling to believe in the Quran, but he's telling to believe in a corrupted book. Why would he do that?

Well, because obviously he's telling them that they should believe in the Quran because it's the

No, he's not. He's telling them to believe in the corrupted book.

Yeah. I didn't say if they don't believe in the Quran, then they should still believe in their corrupted book because it is better than to reject, you know, all the revelations.

Reject what? Better to reject what? Does this really sound good to you? Like you sound like you think you're you're doing it. You think you're solving the problem?

Hang on. Hang on. Yeah. Yeah, I I just want to point out I just want to point out I actually I mean I obviously disagree with with what he's saying, but I have to say at least he's acknowledging that that 285 is telling the Jews, believe in all of your scripture. Now, we got a problem with saying that because we don't know where we don't know where it's saying that that it's corrupted, but at least he's acknowledging what that verse clearly says. And so, um, so this, in other words, this is a better position than we hear from most Muslims who comment on what Satu says. It's only because he's I think that's I think you you see that you see the weight of the objection. You can feel the weight of the objection and you're taking it to some conclusion that we don't think follows but that's the way that you think saves it doesn't save it because why if you go to chapter 2 verse 4041 it says that the the Quran and also 2 verse 89 and 91 and 97 says that the Quran is doing what? It's confirming what is with them.

Confirming what is with them. Meaning that whatever they have with them, which you're saying some of it's true, some of it is false. You're saying that the Quran is confirming falsehood and corruption.

It's confir confirming the truth. The partial truth says he condemns partial partial.

So, so this so this is what we need. Okay? Cuz we just showed a verse where Allah hates when people believe in part of the scripture and reject the other parts. You're saying that Allah actually does confirm some of the scripture and rejects parts. So, we gave you an explicit verse where Allah says, "Don't do that." Can you give us a verse where Allah does do that? Where he says in chapter 2 that he's confirming part of the scripture?

Well, no, because it's obvious that he's it's obvious that he's not confirming it wholesale, but that's what it says. It says group them. When the Quran says that Allah that the the job of the Quran and Muhammad is to confirm what is with them. That's all it says. It's confirming what is with them. It literally says those words lies what is with you. Everything with you. So whatever over and over again. Yeah. Over and over again. It's like a beating drum over and over again. Over and over again. And and the whole point the argument the Quran and Muhammad is making is look I am just another prophet in the line of prophets that came before like Musa like Issa like Abraham like all of them I'm just another prophet and you guys the Jews and the Christians you believed in those prophets you followed them they gave you the scripture that you have with you can even find my description written in what you have in the seventh century if you were to stop concealing things in your scripture and distorting it when you tell people about it. You should be honest and be consistent and you would believe me Muhammad as another prophet in that same line and therefore you should accept what the Quran is telling you because the Quran is just confirming that what you have that which what you have. Now that's the whole argument the Quran makes and it isn't just in this chapter although it's all over this chapter but it's everywhere in the Quran. It's one of the big arguments the Quran makes.

Thomas, really I I think I know you said you've just been a Muslim for a year, but I I think you you need to realize the weight of this objection. This is a serious problem in Islamic theology. Many Muslims acknowledge this. Christians acknowledge this and non-Muslims acknowledge this. You can't just say that the Quran is corrupting. The Quran is confirming corrupt scriptures because those corrupt scriptures contradict Islam. So that means that basically the Islamic dilemma passes. The Quran is false because it contradicts itself. It's inconsistent. I would humbly suggest you you revise your thinking on having joined Islam because you end up with problems like this. Islam tries to sort of buddy up with Christianity and the line of the prophets but it can't do it because it keeps saying contradictory stories, contradictory doctrines. So my brother, please think about if you want to follow the prophets, look at Jesus. Yeah, look at Jesus. He's the prophet and the son of God himself in flesh. You should follow him and look at the Bible.

Bible. All right. Well, thank you for uh your advice. I would humbly reject

Good conversation. Uh so uh yeah.

Wait, wait, before you go, before you go, I really want to get your interpretation on this. So when the Quran says over and over again that it's confirming what is with them, where do you get the indication that it's confirming falsehood?

What?

Well, let let me let me cl let me clarify, J. So, so we've already we've already quoted a couple of passages, but just let me give you a quick rundown of surah 2. We went through we've gone through these passages here, but just to recap for anyone who's who's jumping in late. So, Allah is talking to the children of Israel earlier in the chapter. Verse 41, he says, "And believe in what I have revealed, verifying that which is with you." So, you're supposed to believe in the Quran. Why? Because the Quran is verifying what they already have. And then you go a couple verses later, verse 44. What do you enjoin men to be good and neglect your own souls while you read the book? Have you no have you then no sense? So the book that they have is supposed to be correcting their inappropriate behavior which sounds like the book is the authority over their behavior and they're not living up to what their book says. Then we get to uh verse 85 where Allah is talking about them uh obeying parts of the Torah but not obeying other parts of the Torah. And he says, "Do you then believe in part of the book and disbelieve in another?" And he says he'll send them to hell if they only believe in parts of the book and don't believe in the other. Then verse 89, and when there came to them a book from Allah verifying that which they have. So it again the Quran is supposedly verifying what we have. Verse 91. And when it is said to them, believe in what Allah has revealed, they say we believe in that which was revealed to us. And they deny what is besides that while it is the truth verifying that which they have. So it's saying, why are you guys rejecting the Quran when the Quran affirms your book? The Quran affirms your book. Why can't you why can't you affirm the Quran in return? 101. And when there came to them an apostle from Allah verifying that which they have, then they reject it and they throw the book behind their back. Uh in verse 121, but notice if they're throwing the book behind their back, what's that mean? They got the book. And then verse 121, those to whom we have given the book recite it as it ought to be recited or read it as it ought to be read. Well, what's that mean? They've got the book. He's saying they're reading it as or reading it or reciting it the way it's supposed to be read and recited. You can't do that if you've got some uh some massive corruption. So what Jai was pointing out was when Allah says it in all these different ways. It's like I mean it's almost like Sorry. Oh, was that was him. I thought it was me. I thought it was because I always do that. I always accidentally uh start playing something. Um so what Jai was pointing out was it I mean it's like Allah is saying how can I make it any clearer to you what I'm saying? I will say it over and over and over and over and over again in different words and in different ways that I'm affirming the previous scriptures inspiration preservation and authority. And so when someone comes along and says oh yeah Allah means something different. He means that your scriptures been corrupted. We're just saying, can you can you show us one word? Can you show us one word where that's giving you the indication that he's talking about our scriptures being corrupted? And no one can. No one can give us one word, but we can give dozens of verses, dozens of verses saying that he's affirming our scriptures. Muslims can't show us one verse where he says the opposite. And so we're saying, where are you getting this interpretation from? And we're serious about this because Muhammad said, "All innovators go to hell." And what do you have here? You have you have Muslims in the Dawa community just flat out making things up about what the Quran says and we challenge them say give us one chapter and one verse that say this and they can they never can and it just doesn't bother their fans. That's what I mean that's the real takeaway here. We I I can sit here I can sit here with a Muslim and I can say here are 50 verses where Allah says one thing and it's the opposite of what your da guy told you. So who are you going to believe? And it seems like 100% of the time they'll go with the da guy against Allah. And we're that's like shocking to us. We're like how how given what Allah says and how much he warns you and how Muhammad warned you not to listen to a man who contradicts Allah. And it's what we see every single Muslim doing. And we look at what the Quran says, everything it condemns the Jews and Christians for with their scriptures, namely distorting them with their speech, um misinterpreting them, misrepresenting them, leading other people astray with them. It's exactly what Muslims do with the Quran. And

It's like, hey, he he he's giving us all these warnings and threats to us for doing exactly what every single one of your Dawa guys do. And what happens? People will just go with the Dawa guys. And again, it's just shocking, but we want Muslims to get this point, which is why we keep doing it, why we keep sharing this with them.

All right, Thomas, uh, did you want have anything to say? Are you Were you, uh, finished?

Yeah. Yeah. Thank you.

So, you're So, wait, just you're okay with the Quran saying that, you know, corrupted scripture is true? You're okay with that?

No, it doesn't. It doesn't say it's true. It confirms it. It confirms like the confirm means to validate that something is true. That's that's what confirm means.

Yeah. In a general confirmation. It says it confirms what's with them. What they have confirmation is what they have corrupted scripture.

Well, like parts of it.

Yes. What does it say? So, can you show us that? Do you have a verse that says that?

Cool. Go.

We don't really need a verse that says something.

Yeah, but we have a verse condemning parts explicitly. Exactly. If we have a verse condemning this idea of the scriptures, part of them are good and part of them are bad. We have an explicit verbatim scripture rejecting that. But you're still saying, "Oh, well, the Quran still teaches this." You got to give us something. You got to give us a verse, man.

like verse uh 79 saying they distorted with their hands.

Destroy what? With their hands.

The book. It doesn't say that.

Wait. So, did the Quran come to confirm that book and 279?

Parts of it.

Oh, wait, wait. Where? Hang on.

Parts of it. We just want to point out. You're saying verse 79 is saying the Quran only confirms parts of it. It's only six verses later where he says if you only believe in parts of it, you're going to hell. So you're saying that in the space of six verses, Allah did a complete 180 and changed his story.

Because the way the way we would interpret it is we would say, okay, verse 85 is as clear as day. Uh verse 41 clear as day. Verse 44 clear as day. Uh 85, 89, 91, 101, 121. These are all clearly affirming the scriptures. And therefore, when we interpret verse 79, we're going to make sure that our interpretation lines up with all the clear verses instead of forcing an interpretation into 279 and then throwing out all the throwing out all the clear verses.

Yeah. So, are you are you saying that Allah in just six verses later changed this story? He said in 279 that the Torah that they have is written by their own hands and corrupted and then in verse 85 he tells them that same Torah that they have, they better believe in all of it, not just parts of it. Is is Allah changing his story or or is he telling him to believe in a false book that they wrote themselves?

Well, he's saying that because they believed that it is from God that yes, they they are mandated to believe in a partially corrupted book.

Yeah, they got you. They got you, man.

So, um as long as as long as I believe in something So, as long as I believe in something, that makes it true.

Yep. It makes it true.

They Let's be clear, though. So 279 says that whoever whatever this book is, people are selling it. They're selling this book and they know that it's not from God. They're selling it. They're corrupting it. Whatever this book is, right? We're we're not saying this is the Torah. You think it's the Torah. So if it's the Torah and the Jews are writing it and they're adding in things, Allah is saying woe to them for what they have written and woe to them for what they earn. Then you're saying Allah is saying, forget about I said wo wo to them for doing that. Now, now they should just leave the whole thing. Even though they know that parts of it are false because they're the ones who are writing it and, you know, selling it for a small price. Allah is saying, actually, wait a minute. No, no, not woe to you guys. Just keep believing it. And you're saying they can go to heaven because they are monotheists. It makes it doesn't make any sense.

So, one verse says, "Woe to them for what they've written." And the other verse says, "If you don't believe in it, you're going to hell." What they know is not from God.

Yeah. Guys, the the point the point here, everyone who's watching, Muslims act like 279 is just clearly talking about the corruption of scripture. It's not. The reason they go to 279 is the only one of the verses that they'll go to in the Quran to try and talk try and say that the uh the Quran is not affirming the previous scriptures that actually sounds like it's talking about text. Other verses like 378 that they go to if you all you have to do is read the verse. It's talking about distorting it with our speech. Here's something where it actually talks about writing something. So they say, "Aha, therefore, the Quran is talking about uh corrupting your scriptures." When we So what do we do? We go to the verses before it. Makes no sense. Allah is contradicting himself. We go to the verses after it. Makes no sense. Allah is contradicting himself if if he's saying that verse 279, he's talking about the corruption of scripture. We just pointed out which I was just pointing out is does it make sense for Allah to be condemning people for corrupting the book and they've corrupted it and then just six verses later he says, "Oh, by the way, you better believe in all of it, not reject any part of it." when they would know what they've corrupted. If this if this is about people corrupting the Torah, changing the Torah, then it would make no sense for for him to say, "Hey, you remember the all those passages about the Torah that you changed and you corrupted? Make sure you believe in them or I'll send you to hell. That would make that would make zero sense. That would be believe in what you changed."

Yeah, that would I would I would call that an impossible interpretation. Like whatever the Quran means, it can't possibly mean it can't possibly be saying that possible if you're a Muslim.

Yeah. When you go to the commentaries, this is what happens. Yeah. When you go to the commentaries about what surah 2 verse 79 is actually saying, you get you you get things all over the place. Um a common one is that um Muhammad's going around saying, "Hey, I'm in the Torah." And that Jews just wrote something down and said, "Uh, oh, here's what the Torah says. This is what the Torah says." And they wrote something down. Okay. So, that's in the that's in your commentaries that that's all that was. It's it's Jews writing down a false description of this supposed prophet who's to come from Arabia. And then they go around spreading that around. Okay. Guess what? If that interpretation is correct, that has nothing to do with any copy of the Torah being corrupted. Um, another interpretation is that uh Jews were just writing down blessings, writing down blessings for people and saying they're from the Torah and then selling them to people. Here, if you want this blessing to to to announce over people and so on. Another interpretation is that this is referring to uh things that would that would eventually be collected like in the Talmet and so on um where it's commentaries but that people are treating the commentaries exactly like they treat uh the Torah. Keep in mind none of this would have anything to do with the Torah being corrupted. And none of it none of it could even possibly be referring to Torah corruption because guess what? If some person sitting in Medina in the seventh century were to actually corrupt a copy of the Torah and were to say, "Hey, uh, I know Muhammad's a true prophet because he's in the Torah. Let me go ahead and just rewrite the entire Torah." Say, "Okay, you actually corrupted a copy of the Torah." What would that have to do with any any other cor any other copy of the Torah on anywhere else on the planet? It wouldn't. It couldn't possibly. So this would be like and if a if a Muslim wants to say, "Yeah, if some guy in Medina were to write a false copy of the Torah, that would somehow universally corrupt the Torah by magic." Okay, that sounds insane. That sounds absolutely insane. But if you wanted to grant that, that writing something down and claiming that it's from a book means that the book has been corrupted. Keep in mind, everyone, that's how they have to interpret this. Quran says, "Woe to those who write the book and say this is this is from Allah." Okay, suppose you grant that if someone writes something down and says it's from this book and it's not actually from this book, that means that that book has been corrupted. Great. What do you do now? Here, I just wrote this. This is the Quran. Jesus is Lord. David, have you just corrupted the Quran? Allah says you must believe that. Allah said you must believe that. Allah is telling you to believe that. As long as you believe in all of it, you better not believe in part of it. All right, everyone got this? I just wrote something down. I said, "This is the Quran. Jesus is Lord." Would any Muslim on the planet ever say that since I wrote this and I said this is the Quran and I'm contradicting would any Muslim on the planet say that I have corrupted the Quran or any Quran by doing that? Would would they say that? No. The answer is no. But then they'll turn right around and say if the Quran says someone wrote something and it's not from Allah. See, this means the Torah has been universally corrupt. And it's like you can't even you can't you have zero clue what hypocrites you sound like, man. It's I mean, it's is border again, it's borderline insane.

And so the point here is you take 279, there are all kinds of Muslim interpretations of 279. If you read 279 in the context of surah 2, let alone of the entire Quran, which makes it even makes the point even stronger. But if you read surah 2 verse 79 in context of verses right before it that confirm the inspiration preservation authority of the Torah and verses that come right after it even saying you cannot believe in parts you have to believe in all of it you have to you absolutely must go with one of the interpretations that doesn't mean that the the Torah has been corrupted because if you say this is saying the Torah has been corrupted you're contradicting the verses that come before and the verses that come after and the rest of the Quran and so what we have over and over again is what do Muslims They want to believe that the Quran is saying that previous scriptures have been corrupted. So what do they do? Let's go to the ambiguous verse that has multiple interpretations all over our sources and let's give it the interpretation we want it to have and then let's use that to completely anull and avoid all the verses that say the opposite of what we're interpreting this verse to mean. And guess what? That is exactly what the Quran condemns Jews and Christians for doing. We're we're picking and choosing and misrepresenting our text. And it's exactly what every dawa guy on the planet will do. And you could tell this to all their fans. And every last one of their fans will side with the da guy in instead of with Allah. And what is this religion, man? It's a religion of da guys. It's not the religion. Islam.

Welcome to Islam. Just to make sure guys, if you guys are thinking about becoming a Muslim, Thomas was a beautiful example of what happens to you when you become one. Soon as you become a Muslim, you start arguing like that. You start thinking like that. and you start defending positions that are indefensible, making up stuff as you go. Um, and just sounding absolutely ridiculous, man. So, don't don't don't do it. I gotta be real. Don't do that, man. Just don't just be careful. Just letting you know what you're gonna do.

All right. Hey, God. Logic. This is your brain on Islam. Oh, man. Listen, look, we we got a sound for that, man. We got a sound bite for that. Listen to this here. Listen to this here. Uh, where is it at? Oh, here it is. We don't use our brain. If Allah contradicts our brain, we take our brain out of the sight. We take our brain out of the world. You understand? As a Muslim, listen, we don't use our brain. If Allah contradicts our brain, we take our brain out of the sight. We take our brain out of the world. You understand? That's a Muslim, by the way, guys. Talking to Christian Prince.

Hey, uh, David, you're gonna put a beat to that. And then Avery, you play that. That's gonna be a new What's the new What's the NGO chat? We don't.

All right. So, hey yo yo yo yo, I just wanted to point out um uh with Thomas. Notice he was uh he he was uh he was he was respectful and we obviously we obviously thought that the way he was going about it was uh absurd. I pointed out that I liked his position better than most of the guys who respond because he's at least acknowledging what surah uh what surah 2 vers 85 says. So all that was good. So the point here is not um oh look at the dumb things he's saying. It's look what his position forces him to say. He's forced into this because guess what? The Quran simply affirms scriptures that contradict the Quran. And so you're stuck with a couple of options. One, you could do what your average Da guy does. He'll go to an ambiguous verse that has 20 different interpretations in the Muslim sources and give it an interpretation that completely contradicts everything Allah everything else Allah says in the entire Quran. That's the standard Dao approach. Or you can say you can acknowledge the truth. Yes, the Quran is confirming these previous scriptures, but say, but he's just confirming corrupt scriptures that he knows are corrupted, and he's just saying, "Hey, if you're going to believe in those, then then uh then then believe in it." And you can sort of bite that bullet. Uh but really, guys, the the real the real the most obvious the most obvious the most obvious reality here is the Quran is affirming scriptures that contradict the Quran. Therefore, the Quran just self-destructs. Guess what? We either have the word of God if we or we don't. If we have the word of God, Islam is false. We don't have the word of God. It's some is false. Either way, some is false.

We got a super chat from Joshua. He says, "It's frustrating seeing your message go over people's heads over and over." So, it was very refreshing to see your stream on Wednesday. God is truly using you for the kingdom. I pray he continues to bless your ministry. Amen. And that's the stream we were talking about, guys, where a bunch of people were coming to Christ or even announcing their belief and renouncing Islam. Oh, by the way, just so you know, we were hearing about that because people were coming into the chat. People were coming into the chat on our live stream and saying, "Oh my goodness, you should have seen the the stream on God Logic's channel." It was insane, man. It was It was It was crazy. I'm telling you. Changed the entire like vibe of the stream. It was It went from debating to if you're if you're a Muslim and you've left Islam or thinking about leaving Islam, you're curious about Christianity, come up. And people were just coming up and it it was insane. It was insane.

Um, all right. Khalifa, how you doing? You're a Muslim?

Yes.

All right. Do you have a verse in Surahu that says that the scriptures have been corrupted?

Surah. Yes. Uh maybe uh maybe maybe.

Okay. Guys, if you guys are not Muslims and you're here hitting the link, do not Hold on one second. Khalifa, for everybody that hit the link, make sure you guys confirm in the chat that you're all Muslim. I need everybody to confirm you're a Muslim. If you're not a Muslim, please leave the chat. You're not You're wasting spaces for Muslims here. It says Muslims only. So, you shouldn't be here if you're not a Muslim.

Okay. Yeah. Don't be Islamophobes. Yeah. Come on, guys. Don't be Islamophobes. Make room for the Muslims. Yeah. trying to block Muslims. That's Islamophobic.

All right, Khalifa. So, you said maybe you might you might have a verse.

Yeah. Uh what you mean? Uh for uh for example, uh corrupting it.

Well, yeah. Why don't we start with this? Do you believe that the Quran teaches that the Torah and the Injil are corrupt?

No, I don't believe.

Okay. You don't believe that? Okay. So, do you believe that they were intact? They were preserved in the time of Muhammad.

If they are preserved, uh, yes. Yes.

Okay. So, they were still around in Muhammad's time, right?

Yes.

Okay. And that's what Muhammad came to confirm, what was with them in his time in the position of the Jews and the Christians.

Yeah, no, in the possession of of Jews and Christians.

Okay. Yeah. Good. And so Okay. Yes. Yes.

Okay. So, Muhammad came to confirm the Torah that the Jews possessed, the Torah and the Injil that the Christians possessed.

Yes.

Okay. Okay. So, have you read these books?

No.

Why not?

Do you know that the I don't I I don't have them.

Okay. But do you know that the Torah that the Jews had in the seventh century and that the Christians had in the seventh century, they both had the Torah and the Injil, the Gospel, is exactly what we have today. Did you know that?

The Torah that uh the Jews have now. Yes, exactly as the same as the same.

Yeah. Okay. When you say Torah in uh according to to the Quran, what is Torah and what is that which the Jews considered to be scripture in Muhammad's time. We have that exact document that they had then that we have we have today. It's the same exact book. We know exactly what it said then. It says the same thing that it says today.

Yeah. I said according to the Quran what is Torah in I'm telling you that which is in the possession of the Jews and the Christians that's what Allah says which means what is with them was with them was their hands everything that is with them one second one second what they were reading and what they were reciting so those books that they were reciting and reading those books are the ones that the Quran is confirmed confirming. So whatever the Christians and the Jews say this is the Torah or this is the or this is the Bible for example as you say is uh what the Quran is speaking talking about that's exactly what the Quran speaking about it just calls it al just calls it the book and it says whatever whatever they have in their hands that's what so every every book that uh say this is the Bible on it it is uh what the Quran is confirmed hold on a Second.

So, you agreed with me earlier that the Jews had the Torah in Muhammad's time and that he was confirming it. What What book did you think that we were talking about?

The one that was revealed Isa and Moses.

Okay, good. So, that's the book we're That's okay. Let's talk about that book. that book. You believe that that was in Muhammad's time and he confirmed what they were reading, what they were reciting, what they were calling the book.

Yes.

Okay. So, I'm telling you again, we know what the Christians and Jews had as scripture. We know what they said was the Torah. We know what they said was the gospel. And that's exactly what we have today.

We don't know if it is all. Don't know that. Now all the Christians have that. You said you never read it. You said you never read it. So how do you know what's what?

Because the Quran tell me that this is not your book.

Where does it say? Where does it say that? Where does it say that?

The Quran tell me that the book uh the Quran in is what was revealed to Jesus.

For example, where does it say it's not your book?

What? Where does the Quran say the is not my book? Where does it say that?

I didn't say the Quran say the is not my book. I said the Quran say the is the book revealed to Jesus.

Okay. Do you believe that the Quran says that the Muslims should believe in the injil the true injil and the true Torah?

Yes.

Okay. So it's it is your book actually the Torah and are your books as Muslims. The original ones are okay. The original ones you said that they were the ones at the time of Muhammad.

Yes.

You said yes. What we're saying is those things are the same ones are the one that Allah is talking about and that the time those ones Yes. We know we know what Arabians had. We have the we have the history and the manuscripts. We know what they had. We're saying that what they had at that time is what we have now. That's what we're saying to you. And as a Muslim, you're obliged to believe in those books. You can't say you can't say it's not your book. You become a carefer.

Do you want me to bring you first? The books you have now is not what where is the evidence? But where is your evidence that you didn't you said you didn't even read them. So how do you know those books that we have now?

Not those the evidence is the Quran because the Quran tell us we're going in circles. We just told you the Quran says exactly that. The Quran says believe in these books.

So wait so wait. So you say that the Quran is affirming the book that the Jews and the Christians had. And then you're saying the Quran's also saying something else that there's another book or there's another there's another Torah that's corrupted. Where where is that?

When the Quran says the book that the Jews has, it is not every book that claim that where does it say?

One second. Where does it say not every book?

What? Because the Quran said, Yes. Because the Quran is talking telling you in in the Quran that the book is hold on.

You're saying you're saying that Torah is in the that was in the possession of the Jews in the seventh century in Muhammad's time. That that is the Torah that was revealed to Moses.

Okay. So, do you believe that it just disappeared after that or do you believe that we have access to that?

I don't know if right now we have it seen. I don't

Okay. Where did it go? Where did it go? So, it exists from Moses time all the way until the time of Muhammad in the seventh century. Where did it go after the seventh century? Did Did Allah zap it back up into Jenna or where did it go?

I don't know. Maybe people destroyed it or because the Quran is telling, my friend, why would they scripture? Why would they destroy?

Wait, wait, wait. Why would they destroy the very thing that confirms Muhammad in their scriptures? Why would they do that?

Who? Because according to your Quran, Muhammad's descripture is prophesized in the Inul and Torah. So why would the original injur Torah that Muhammad had in the seventh century? Why would Muslims apparently destroy that when it is proof to the Jews and the Christians that Muhammad is actually a prophet? Why would they destroy it?

The Muslims don't need Wait, do you even know that according to your own one second? According to your own traditions, Muhammad had family through Kadijah who used to write this scripture. They used to write the Injil and supposedly that's the original Injil, right? So even Muhammad's own family used to write this scripture that supposedly had a prophecy, a description of Muhammad in it to prove to all of the Christians that Muhammad is actually a real prophet. And yet, for some reason, Muslims did not care about this and they let it get destroyed. And now it's gone. And now we have a situation where there are more Christians than Muslims in the world which could which could have changed because Muhammad could have proven to all the Christians if they had just preserved the early Muslims had just preserved the uh the inje according to your argument for example it wouldn't matter because when Jesus was with people even at that time when he was doing all the miracles people didn't believe in him. So whether you have proof or not doesn't justify people believing in you or not. This is Wait, wait, wait. Now you've just now you've just gone against your own Quran because one of the arguments the Quran makes is that the people of the book, the Jews and the Christians can believe Muhammad is a real prophet in the line of Abraham, Musa, Isa

Because his description is in their books. The Quran makes the Quran says, the Quran says that's a good argument and it's a reason and it's a very big one and a very common one all over the Quran as to why the people of the book, the Christians and Jews should believe he is a prophet.

If you say that's a bad argument, you've just said Allah makes bad arguments. No. If the Quran say they should believe in it, there are multiple arguments that the Quran give to people in for them to believe in it. But it doesn't uh mean that people will believe in it even even if they have all the proof. But it's a good argument, right? Because Allah made the argument in the Quran.

Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yes. So if it's a good argument because Allah made it, so it better be good and he knows all things. So he should know this is a good argument to convince the Christians and Jews to believe in Muhammad.

Why on earth didn't the early Muslims who had complete control over the entire area through for centuries, in fact, I don't think Medina has ever actually been invaded by non-Muslim forces, maybe fact check me on that, but for some reason, none of them could be bothered to pro to protect the very scripture that prophesizes Muhammad, even though Muhammad's own family were producing that proof? Why do you know how absolutely insane that sounds? You know, you have to ask them. I don't know why what I can tell you my English is not very good.

So here what I you understand this for example what I believe is okay when the Quran say the scripture that the Jews have with them or the Christians talking about the original ones. So the Quran tells that that the preservation of these books has been given to the rabbis and to the priest but they failed in it. It say do do they have those in Muhammad's time? Do they have those scriptures with them? Yes, I'm coming. I'm coming. So they have those. But these same people were concealing the truth and selling to people some information for money. So everybody didn't have at that time the ability to read the scripture. So that's fine.

We're talking about text though, Khalifa. We're talking about the actual scriptures themselves, not what people heard or what they were duped into believing, but the actual scriptures themselves. They were there in good condition, preserved in the hands of the believers, right? Yes. Okay. Yes. So, so since that's the case, then Allah's affirming that they have the scriptures, they have the truth scriptures, it's not corrupted, it's preserved, and it's true. So, where are you getting this from that something happened to them when the Quran never says that? The Quran tells you that they are concealing the truth.

Well, there's a difference between conce they are concealing the truth. You know say do you know what your taps say when they talks about concealing? They usually interpret it in the context of there's uh verses in the Torah and the Injil that say that that talk about Muhammad's description and his prophecy, right? They interpret those verses usually in that context. The reason why I they tend to do that is because it's a bit awkward otherwise because you'd have to admit that what the Quran is really saying is yeah don't conceal the truth in the Torah and the Injil which would mean that the Torah and the Injil is true because there's nothing that says by the way guys the Torah and the Injil have been corrupted they've been totally changed they are full of nonsense and Islamic blasphemy is it's full of all that stuff but it never says that.

Yes, but the Quran says it uh too that these same people they were because of their own desires they were concealing the truth and lying selling lies to people. For example, one if I conceal the truth about the Quran if the Quran says something right and someone let's say someone asks me about it or I'm trying to teach someone the Quran but I hide a part of what the Quran says like I I don't I don't get show truly what the Quran says and I twist it a little bit with my with my mouth and and how I teach it. Um, does that mean that the text of the Quran has been corrupted? Uh, does that mean the text of the Quran has been changed or altered? Yeah. No, I won't say that. But if someone else writes something that is part of the Quran and part of something else, then it is corrupted and it is mass transmitted. So it is that doesn't work.

No, I like as David Wood has demonstrated, you can write something, say this is from the Quran, that doesn't mean you've corrupted the Quran. That's I mean look, is he is he corrupted the Quran? He's just written that. David, are you trying to sell that on a little game? Like is it is it really this tough to get guys? Like I I know I know you're Muslims. I know that you know you guys Islam. I know that you guys have a uh you know a a motive to defend Islam and you've been taught something and told something your whole life. Is it really this hard to adhere to what your Quran actually says? Is it is it this difficult to think through these things? No, it is not even complicated. I'm explaining it to you. If it's not understanding it, so if it's not complicated, I'm telling you one verse. One verse that says that the previous scriptures have been corrupted. One. Which did did I tell you that the previous scriptures have been corrupted? I didn't say that. No, no, no. I didn't say you ended up saying that. No, no, no. I didn't say it. He told me uh what is logic.

Can we get a someone more learned? No disrespect to you, friends, but perhaps someone who knows a bit more and can speak English better to communicate better. I I I wish I knew. I'm looking at a whole little list right here. I I'm trying my best to pick out who I think may, you know, be the best. And I I don't know what to do. I don't know what to do, man. I don't know what to do here. Uh do we have do we have the Torah and the Gospel today? He's gone. As as alone. Oh dear. It's it's enough guy. This it's you can't you come to surely there's some Muslim somewhere who can actually defend engage. Surely I just want to let let people know.

So this is what happens guys when you get a group of Christians and you all go through surah 2 and everybody takes notes on what it says. These are the results. So anyone can do this. If you guys want to join community.ac7.com. Come and join us. We're just about to start chapter 5. These are the fruit. This is the fruit of the Islamic dilemma project. So if you guys want to come join us, you guys see what we're doing. This is literally just stuff that we learned from going through chapter 2. We're just staying in chapter 2. So you guys can see the effectiveness of this. You guys can see it. And you know, we pray by God's spirit that it will draw these Muslims in and show open their eyes and open their ears to the truth. But yeah, this is the fruit of the Islamic dilemma project guys. This is what it is.

And one one one more one more thing along along those lines is because earlier I was pointing out that um you know Muslims the da guys all say the Quran confirms the corruption of the previous scriptures. And what happens when we just sit here and ask well can you give us a verse? Can you show us one? um we focus on surah 2 because there's a ton of verses confirming the previous scriptures and we say okay if that's not what Allah means it seems like he should have at least one verse where he says oh by the way all these other verses where I'm clearly saying this I actually mean the opposite I'm saying that in this verse so we point that out but um also notice if you had a bunch of Muslims together in a room with a da guy and they were someone one of them were to bring up someone in that room just Muslims were to bring up Hey, these Christians are saying that the Quran affirms their scriptures. They would all laugh and they would say, "Haha, yes, this is refuted by Surah 2:79 and it's refer it's refuted by Surah 3:78 and it's refuted by Surah 5:48. Haha, yes, we know this. H what a dumb argument."

And yet when we sit here and we say, "Go ahead and give us those arguments that you use in your little da groups and the the arguments that work in your mosque, why don't you actually give us those arguments that supposedly refute us? We're live callin. All you have to do is come here and show us show us where our argument is wrong." Yeah. And we're we're we're waiting for it. But guess what? We've got your Quran and we've got the commentaries. So, be sure you're using something that's going to work. What happens? Nothing. Nothing that the da guys say. Nothing that that works. When Muslims are just talking to each other, nothing actually works against someone who's actually quoting what the Quran says and what the uh what your commentaries say. It doesn't work. What does that tell you? If your arguments only work around people who already agree with you and it would never in a million years work with someone who's actually quoting your Quran accurately, what does that tell you? It should be telling you something right now. You should be looking at this going if you're if you're if you're a Muslim and and you're not sure or you're a Muslim and you believe the Quran is is affirming the the corruption of the previous scriptures and so on because you heard it from your dawa guys right now you should be going why doesn't anything that we say in our little circle work against someone who's actually quoting our book to us. Why? Yeah.

All right. Well, let's see what we got. We got a shout out from Hussein who says, "Thanks for the insights into chapter 2. Happy Easter. God bless you and your family, Hussein. Thank you so much, man. All right, let's see, man. Let me bring Oh, Leon. Leon, you're a Muslim. No, I just got one question, though. All right, that was me, bro. That wasn't me. Yo, bring bring him back. Bring him back up. I don't know if he was a Muslim or not. I don't know. Like, hello. That was you for real? No, that was me. No, no, I'm not. I'm not Leon, but I'm saying I know, but you spoke when you when I asked that picked up so fast. What's wrong? He's gone. You did shy. You just destroyed someone's whole dollar career. Sorry. Crazy. All right, let's get the Let's get the next color. Yo, it's me, Ali Dawa, and I'm here to tell you about my new Ziagra formula to allow you to keep up with all your Buddha wives. I feel really bad for Leon. Come back, Leon. Yeah, come back, Leon. Sorry about that, man. Come on, Leon. That was uh that was uh pretty But we do got somebody up. Muslim man, what's up, man? You you ready to you ready to give us something, man? No. Diddy. Yo. Hello. Hello. Yeah. Hello. Uh it states in verse chapter 2 verse 79. Oh, script. Same script. Same script. Sorry. Lots of Muslims came and said the same thing. Everyone see the dollar script. Can he cook? What y'all scared of? Let the man cook. I got a contradiction from the Bible. No, we want we want you to answer the we want you to answer the question. Um, is that your case? Surah 2 verse 79 and that's it. You're just going to say surah. What is surah 2:79? How does that talking about the the corruption of the previous scriptures? Uh it's it states the uh people the scriptures. Who who's it talking about? It's talking about the people. The people who who if it's if it's talking about the people, the people would include Muslims and therefore Muslims corrupt. It's talking about the people at that time. Okay. So the people at that time are corrupting their scripture. So they're corrupting the Quran too. No. Okay. Okay. It's got to be talking about someone specific. It's got to be talking about something specific. It's got to be talking about someone specific corrupting something specific. We're asking who are the people cuz that's going to tell you what they're corrupting. People at the time of the Bible at the time of the Bible. I mean, the Bible covers a long span. So, what what are you talking about? Who like the Jews, the Christians, Zerastrians, Mormons? Who you talking about? Muslims. The the the Christian uh the the Jews. Actually, the Jews. Yeah. Okay. Thanks. So it's talking about the Jews. The Jews corrupting their scriptures. Yeah. Okay. So you're saying surah 2 verse 79 says that the Jews corrupted their scriptures. And yet as we pointed out multiple times during this live stream, just six verses later in verse 85, Allah says Allah condemns condemns Jews for only believing in part of their scripture and not all of it. And he says he will send them to hell unless they believe in all of their scripture. So you're saying that in verse 279 he says, "Jews, your scripture has been corrupted. You corrupted it." And then six verses later, he says, "Believe in all of your scripture or I'll send you to hell." That's what you're saying. So So what what does that do, though? It it it makes Allah a a a walking speaking contradiction, man. It makes him sound Could you explain the contradiction to me? Okay, here's the contradiction. The contradiction is Allah says that the the the scriptures of the Jews are corrupted and false. A few verses later, he says that the scriptures of the Jews is true and they have to believe in all of it or they will or he will send them to hell at the time of Muhammad. So, either they're corrupted or they're true or it's talking about a different time frame. Say that again. It's talking about a different time frame. Six verses later is a different time frame. Yeah. The word is used. Oh, so later it became it loses the corruption later. It's a magic. No. What? Because because 79 comes before 85. So 79 says is a bad book. No, that's the thing. I'm not referencing the verses. I'm talking about the word. Okay. I agree with you. So I'm talking about the Quran. Verse 79 says bad book written by hands of the people. Verse 85 comes later says good book. I'm not talking about the worst number. I'm talking about the words in the verses. Okay. So, what words are you talking about? Just because I know the Arab, I can just check. Okay. What does the word mean? Uh, it it I don't know the exact translation, but it it references to a specific time frame. Okay. What does the word mean? I just told you. Yeah, but it doesn't say doesn't mean time frame. Wait, so you don't know what the word Wait, so you don't know what the word Wait, you don't know what the word means? So why are you saying it? I just told you it references a time frame. I I want to be clear. So you're telling us that you don't know what the word means? Okay, I'll put it like this. Do you know what a calculator is? Tell me the definition of calculator. No, I just want to I I don't understand what you're saying. Are you saying I just I just gave you a good argument and you're running from What is a good argument? That's what we're trying to understand. We're running from a calculator. I I want to know does what does the word do you know? Do you not know the definition of the word or you just saying you don't know how it's applied? I can't do this. Two different things. I I don't know the exact meaning of the word. Okay, I'll tell you what it mean. Well, shall we tell them or not? Yes, please. Is an Arabic word meaning confirm. But what does confirm mean? It means it it means to verify that it's true. Like I said, it's from the word. It's from the word. Muslims say Muhammad is a means truthful. The word comes from it. It means it's truthful. So to to be clear DLC madik confirming means that whatever it's confirming it's that that subject is true. Correct. Okay. Do you understand Muslim man? Yeah. Okay. So according to this the verses Allah is confirming the scriptures that the Jews have possession of. And so he's saying that what they have possession of is true. But at the same time you're saying that Allah also says that these scriptures are corrupted. So corrupted scriptures are true. Uh the the words in the verses is there not any word which states a different time frame? No. No. It's just what is with them? What is with you? What is between their hands? Yeah. Present determine what's with them. Present present. Old present tense at the time of Muhammad when it was revealed it was at present tense. If that helps you. Okay. Okay. That's the only time frame it is is present tense. don't understand why this has anything to do with 285 where it's I mean all of as far as I can read all of your classical exesus it gives the account of what 285 is about and it's a particular uh time in the life of Muhammad so in the seventh century between two Jewish tribes and how they're interacting with each other and how they're failing to follow all of the Torah so this okay so this this verse is clearly telling Jews they have to follow all of the Torah supposedly after it's corrupted if you believe 279 N says it's corrupted. Okay. Okay. So, you understand how that's problematic? Yeah. Okay. Do you want to change your argument or say something different or I mean, well, I mean thing is um there's still like contradictions in the Bible though. Okay. So, so the Quran is confirming contradictions. What do you mean confirming contradictions? Whatever is in the Bible, the Quran says, "Yay, okay to it." That's our That's what means saying that it's truthful. So whatever contradictions you don't like, you're Allah saying you're not we're not worthy. We're not worthy. Yes, you are it. The Quran, the Quran says, "Hey, believe in all of your book, not just part. Believe in all of it." And you're saying, "Your book's got contradictions." And so Allah is saying, I command you by the power of grace skull to believe in all of those contradictions. Which why would Allah tell everyone? So you're agreeing there are contradictions in the Bible. Not I'm saying that's what you said. So you you just you just you just argument it illustrates that you're contradict claiming you you are claiming that Allah you are claiming there are contradictions in the Bible scriptures that contradict themselves and for some reason you don't see a problem. You just you just you just you're talking about your own god and you say, "Hey, you know you know what Allah wakes up and affirms." You know what Allah wakes up and does? He says, "Hey, I'm going to go command people to believe in every single word of a bunch of contradictions." And we're pointing out we're like, "Why? What? That's what you believe? That's really weird. You just agreed there contradictions in the Bible, man. Just Just to help you out, Muslim man. I I don't It sounds like maybe you're playing with us now at this point, so you're probably not going to last much longer, but I'm going to pretend that you're not playing with us. I'm I'm going to pretend that uh maybe you truly are genuinely misunderstanding what you just did here and what David would just explain. So, just to put it in in simple clear terms, your Quran confirms the Bible, says the Bible is true. You're saying, "But the Bible has contradictions." So David Wood is saying, "Okay, if you if you believe that, then Allah is saying that a book full of contradictions is true. You still have a problem." He's not affirming that the Bible has contradictions. He's saying that if you go with that position, you're still stuck in a dilemma because Allah is saying a book full of contradictions is true. You get the you see the point the point now? Yeah. Yeah. So, do you still want to say that the Bible has contradictions? Because if you say that, then you're saying that Allah is saying that a book full of contradictions is true. Or you can escape this by saying, "Well, no, the Bible doesn't have contradictions. Allah is confirming a book that is true and consistent." So, you don't put Allah in trouble. But I'm I'm not going to be dishonest or anything cuz I genuinely have found contradictions in the Bible. So, okay. So if you've genuinely found contradictions in the Bible, then throw Allah under the bus and say, "Allah, why in the world would you confirm a book full of contradictions?" Yeah, you're an apostate now, bro. Welcome to the other side. Leave Leave Allah alone now cuz he's confirming a book full of contradictions. Leave him. I'm I'm going to be honest with you. I'm still a bit skeptical about what you've said, but I'll do my own research. Okay, that's good. Okay, fair enough. That's a good point. Good. Fair enough. That is the appropriate reaction. Yep. Fair enough. You I'm live all the time. Monday, Wednesday, Friday. John Doc, they they go live on Rumble. David and Chris, they have their videos. Chris, you you don't really do live streams, do you? Uh, not that often. Not really. Okay. Well, well, we do live streams, so come do your research and engage, man. You know, I'm live all the time, so you can come to You've been here before. All right. So, All right. Come back and let me know what you what you found. All right. All right. All right. Thank you, man. Hey, thanks. Hey, everyone. I have to point out we've been here uh almost three hours now asking a very very simple question, namely chapter and verse. That's it. Muslims, you Thomas has been the best so far, I think. Yeah. All so all the all the Dawa guys all the Dawa guys spreading spreading their claims. Oh yes, this verse 279, 378, 548. Haha. This refutes the Islabic dilemma. and we say, "Okay, why don't we actually uh take a look at those passages in context? Check out your commentaries because there's no there is a zero% ch there's a 0% chance once you actually understand the passages that they're saying what you say they say." Um, and here we are. We're three hours into it. We still can't get chapter and verse. This this should if if you're kind of new to this topic, this should be telling you something. If you're a Muslim, you should be wondering why doesn't the DA stuff work when someone's actually reading our scriptures. Why doesn't it work? It's it's almost it's as if da'wah is just deception and it's all it's all smoking smoke and mirrors. Yeah. Because it doesn't actually work. So that's what you should be thinking if you're a Muslim. If you're a non-Muslim, you should be thinking, "Wow, if they can open up the if they can open up the live stream to to call-ins and no Muslim can respond to this, maybe I should be learning this argument. Maybe Christians around the world should be learning this argument, watching the videos we put out, and learning this argument. If you're seeing that their arguments, their responses to the Islamic dilemma just don't work." Yeah. How is how is it even possible that Christians around the world are not are not learning this? I don't know. It's weird. All right, we got uh a on the stage. How you doing, man? Yeah. What's up, brother? You good? What's up? What's up? You uh you Sunni, Shia, what what branch of Islam you are? I'm a Sunni, brother. I'm a Sunni. Sunni. Okay. Okay. Do you believe uh the scriptures been corrupted? No. Yes. Yes, I do. I'm sorry. You like I was like now. You can't go back now. I slipped, bro. I slipped. I slipped. No, no. I think you We're just going to cut that. We're just going to cut it right there. Yeah. First of all, I'm I'm I'm here to have a respectful conversation. I ain't like uh I won't start to scream and and say bad. I'm I'm just a respectful guy, you know. That's good. That's cool, man. Appreciate that. Cool. All right. So, we've been asking um you know, our Muslim friends today to uh basically back up this claim that the scriptures been corrupted specifically from chapter 2. We've been reading through chapter 2, taking notes, and um we decided to do a stream dedicated to Sarah Bakra, chapter 2, uh on this topic. And so, you know, we're we're willing to hear from you if you have any verses that say that the previous scriptures are corrupted from chapter 2 or that, you know, Allah only confirms part of the scripture. If you have a verse that says that, um we're willing to hear hear you out. Or if you have any objections, we're letting hear out. So, what you got? Okay. So if you look at the

If you look at the rhythm of the Quran and and um and you you see sort of a distinction, right? I don't know you you said that you've read the Quran a lot, right? If I'm not wrong, I've I've seen some of your past lives, right? You said that you've read parts of the Quran. So if you look at the Quran, you see some uh some places it talks about people of the book, right?

Yeah. And who is the people of the book? It talks about Christians and the Jews, because the context people of the book is used in it refers for example, to crucifixion, Jesus stuff like that, right? Y so we know that this refers to the Christians, right? Y and we have a separation where it talks about the injil and the Torah; the injil is the the gospel; it yeah it was what was revealed to Jesus, and the Torah is what that was revealed to Moses.

Right. Okay. So we we see two separate things, right? So the people of the book it clearly states that it's it is corrupted because sorry um it's my problem. I've listened to a lot of so I'm allergic to so are you Arabic?

Yeah, I'm Arab.

Yeah. Give give me give me the verse that says the book is corrupted.

Okay. Okay. Perfect perfect. It says in itself, right in the context it's used it. Come on. The verse please. Please, I'm begging you. I I will do. Just have some patience, right? I'm I'm We don't need We don't need a whole lecture. We need I'm not giving I'm expl I'm explaining something. Can Can you just explain after you give the verse and then have that you like be respectful? I'm trying to You're very respectful. It's just coming out my ears all the of my life. I've had enough of We're here to listen. You're not You're not Islam. Islam is your Quran and your Muhammad. Where is it in the Quran? My dear prophet, where your dear prophet, where is it in the your dear prophet that said in your dear Quran that the book is corrupt? Y.

Okay. So, what I was trying to say is that clearly the people of the book. Oh, dear God. We need the verse. Uh, do you have a verse or not?

Yes. Yes. Okay. Okay. What's the verse? I I will give it to you in just a sec. Okay. After after your speech. Oh, he's gonna look it up. He's looking up. That's fine. Is it fine? Can Can I look it up? I don't have Yeah. I mean, it's good that you didn't come prepared and you're just looking it up now, but that's fine. But that's fine. We can we can take that. That's not another It's not fair. Ju say you guys just read the whole chapter, you know.

Yeah. Like I spent years reading this book and now another too much. Yeah. Chapter 4 verse 1787. 41. Okay. Don't forget to read 41. That's uh that's basically the other part of the Islamic dilemma. But uh but go ahead, guys.

Yeah. Yeah. So, okay. If you take 4178 to mean that the Bible is corrupted, then four then 41 199 must prove that it's not corrupted, right?

Yeah. Because it says that there's some people who didn't sell the book.

Mhm. Just a second. What did you say? 419. Isn't that 319? 3. Sorry. 3199. 319. Okay. a completely different chapter. No, you you No, you said what did you say? 3187 and 31 199. No, I think 171. Yeah, 171. So that's that's what and I pointed out 171 171 is not helping him. Okay. Make the point make the point you were trying to make with 4171. Sorry, I misar you.

Yeah, my point my point was my point was it clearly states that the people of the book which are the ones that following the the Bible and and the Torah they are clearly led astray and their book is false. Their book being false because they exaggerate in their religion.

Yeah. What does it say book is false? Cuz I know the Arab now. You can't play around with it. It says that it says that the people of the book worship Jesus.

Yeah, look, there's a difference between people saying things versus what their book says, right? So, like I can, for example, I I I have I have a Quran here. Um, if I went around saying, you know, the Quran, you know, says that, you know, Jesus is God. I've that did the No, the Bible says that Jesus is God and they are following the Bible.

Yeah, but one second. Where does it say this? Don't exaggerate in your religion. And it doesn't say don't. So you're wait. So you're saying so you're saying that the Bible does not say Jesus. That's not what we're saying. We're asking you where in the verse does it mention the book teaching this or that the book is false.

Okay. Okay. So, so ju just to be just to be clear, if we're talking about exaggerating in your religion and so on, I would assume that I would assume that as a Muslim you believe there are Muslims who actually make mistakes and and exaggerate in their religions and mis and exaggerating their religion and misinterpret and misrepresent things. But you wouldn't say that therefore this means that the Quran has been corrupted. You would say they're misinterpreting and it refers to people all people of the book, right? It refers to a group of people that is so Muslims. Muslims are people of the Quran and yet and there are some within and there are some people within within the books that is not worshiping Jesus.

Okay. So So is it so is it the book is it the book that's the problem or is it people misinterpreting the book?

Exactly. So if we show you if we show you some some Alawi who says that Muhammad is Allah, does that mean that the Quran is corrupt because someone who claims to be a Muslim is saying that Muhammad is clearly talks about majority?

No, no, no, no, no. Forget majority. If a Muslim says or someone who claims to be a Muslim says that Muhammad is God and Muhammad is the light of Allah, is that corrupting the Quran or is it just someone exaggerating in their religion?

It's a Muslim. It's a Muslim who exaggerates in his religion, isn't it?

That that is a fair point. But but but clearly in the verse I gave you, it talks about a trinity too.

Okay. So, so, so that's fine. So, you acknowledge that point. So, we acknowledge now that there are people who can exaggerate in their religion without necessitating that their books are corrupted. So, now let's ask the question, is there any verse in the Quran that states that the books are corrupted? Not people exaggerating, but are the books corrupted?

Yep. Uh, in Wait, I can find it too. Just give me a second.

Okay. Okay. [Music] Oh. Uh, while he's while he's pulling that up, let me just go ahead and read uh 4171 so people know what we're talking about. Um, but the verse says, "Oh followers of the book, do not exceed the limits in your religion and do not speak lies against the law, but speak the truth. The Messiah, Issa, son of Miam, is only an apostle of Allah, and his word, which he communicated to Miam, and a spirit from him. Believe therefore, in Allah and his apostles, and say not, three, desist, it is better for you. Allah is only one God. Far be it from his glory that he should have a son. Whatever is in the heavens, and whatever is in the earth is his, and Allah is sufficient for a protector." So, yes, I have it. I have it. I have it now. I can clearly prove to you now that the people of the book and the injil and the Torah are two completely separate things.

That's not what we're asking. We're asking for where the Quran says that but it here it clearly states that the book is corrupt indirect.

Okay. That's what that's that's what we want. That's what good. I can show you where it indirectly says indirect. Indirectly getting a bit worried now.

Yeah. You had me excited at first.

Yeah. Can I read it out?

Can I read it out? Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. What does it say?

Okay. So, in chapter 5 verse 68, it says, "Say, oh prophet, 568."

Yeah. He went to 568. 568. That would be like one of my top five go-to verses for proving the Islamic dilemma. Anything? Our favorite verse. Let's see. Let's see. Let's see how he's going to use it.

Okay. Say, "Oh prophet, oh people of the book, you have nothing to stand on unless you observe the Torah, the gospel, and what has been revealed to you from your law and your Lord's revelation to you, oh prophet, will only cause many of them to incre increase in wickedness and disbelief." So do not grieve for the people who disbelieve later on. Indeed the believers, Jews, Sabians and Christians, whoever truly believes on Allah in the last day and does good, there will be no fear for them, nor will they grieve. So here, you just went to another another chap. You completely skipped another chapter. That's chapter 262. You were just in 568. Wait, no, he it was the verse right after it. Oh, the verse right after it's 568. You know the verse 56.

Okay, got it. Correct. It is a copy of you read the Quran, man. I'm I'm a shake, but I'm not a perfect shake. You know what I'm saying? I'm not a mi. Okay. She logic because I thought you said in in a live that you you know the Quran more than everyone. So I No. Hey, just just to be clear, when God logic said that, that's exactly what I thought. 262, right? Because that's that's that's just the way we hear. That's the one that Muslims use when they want to when they when they use that argument, they normally go to 262. So when we hear that, we think, oh, 262.

Okay. Okay. Okay. So here it says so yeah how does it make the point you're trying to make? Go ahead.

My point my point my point here is here it clearly says say oh people of the book you have clearly nothing to stand on unless you observe the Torah and the gospel. clearly makes a separation here and you clearly if if if you if you if you use your brain you can clearly see that here it states that the gospel they have went astray in their in their faiths and the people of the book is clearly astray and the book too and wait can I finish the gospel and the Torah observe a corrupt that's what I'm talking about let's walk through this hold on hold on let's corrupt please let's walk through this let's walk through this Okay. So people people of the book are distinct from the book itself. That's the point you made, right?

Yes. Okay. And we understand it. We agree. The people are different than the book. Now what the command is for the people of the book to observe the book, right? You have nothing to stand on unless you Torah and the gospel. So that means that they have the Torah and the Gospel to observe, right? And they better do it or else they're going to be in trouble, right?

No, it says you have nothing to stand on unless you do it. Right. So they have no foundation unless they stand on the Torah and the Gospel, right?

Mhm. Yes. That means the Torah and the Gospel are true and they better stand on it and stop deviating and that they have it and that they have it. You have you can't you can't it can't be your foundation unless you have it.

Oh, I think I know what happened here. He misread it. I think on on anything because the Torah and the Gospel are not anything. I think Can you just repeat that? He misread. You misread it. You thought that the Allah was saying you're not standing on anything. Meaning that the Torah and the gospel that you have are not anything. Is that what you're trying to say?

What are you talking about? We're trying to figure out what you're talking about. Cuz cuz you're I just I just You're quoting a verse. You're quoting a verse that says Can we bring this up on the screen?

Yeah. Yo yo. But you wanted a verse that says exactly Wait, wait, wait. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. You wanted me to prove to you that according to the Quran, your Bible is corrupted.

Yeah. And you go to a verse that says And you go to a verse that affirms our scriptures.

Okay. Wait, wait, wait. If it wasn't corrupted, if it wasn't corrupted, why would it tell you to observe two other books? Because Wait, wait, wait, wait. What? Instead, what are you talking Wait. Do you think the Bible is different than the Torah and the Gospel?

What are you talking about? Okay. Okay. This guy I'm trying to figure out what where he's coming from. Okay. I think I think I think I think I get it. I think I get it. is not the same as the Bible. The gospel. So, oh, you guys aren't you guys don't don't stand by your Bible because you're supposed to follow the Torah and the Gospel.

No, no, but but the Inil the Injil and the Torah the Injil is not the same as the Bible.

Okay. And ladies and gentlemen, I'm so sorry to do this, but I'm not sorry at the same time. Sorry. Hold on. My bad. Um, but we have just hit our favorite segment of the Islamic uh dilemma. What is the NG? You know it. Welcome to another segment of what is the NGO. It's a good Friday and I got some special guests with me. I got the dizzle. I got Chris Speakers Corner and I got Jai from DLC and our challenger today is Fa himself. Now a says that the Bible that we have today is not the NGO which means that knows what it is. So give us your best shot. Tell us what is the Injil since it's not the Bible.

Perfect Monam. Perfect Monam. Gracias. Okay. So the Inil is the thing it's the it's the book that was revealed to Jesus.

Yeah. But what was that though? What what was that book? It was Allah's revelation to Jesus.

Nice. But what was that? I can give it to you. Do you know Q go Gospel Share? You said Q Q go Gospel Share. You know what it is? What is that? You don't know what it is? What is it? You can search it up. I thought you look it up on the screen for us. Are you saying that the angel is Q? What? Are you saying that the angel is Q Q? Q because you said Q, right? Q go Q source. Yeah. Q. Are you saying that the is the Q source? If if you're saying if you're affirming Q, you've already destroyed Islam.

Yeah. Because because when when Jes when Jesus says all things have been handed over to me by my father and no one knows the son except the father and no one knows the father except the son and anyone to whom the son chooses to reveal him, that's Q. So that is father son and you just affirmed it and therefore the Quran would be wrong. So this would just be he didn't get it. Uh, let me break it down. I I just I just I just legit listen look. According to the Q source, Jesus in the Q source says that all things that the father has is mine. All authority in he in heaven and earth has been given to me by my father.

Okay. So Jesus is affirming that he's the son of God. What's the issue with Allah giving Jesus something? Well, okay. Jesus is the son and is given by the father and so father and son. The Quran says Allah has no son and so the Quran would be wrong.

Metaphorical. Okay. Go on. You you understand the problem there. Do do you think do you think that the phrase father is not met metaphorical? It doesn't whether it's metaphorical whatever. Allah is not a father in any sense.

No. But but it's it's it's it's quite literal that it's metaphorical. Wait. So you're saying that Allah Jesus is the son of Allah metaphorically? It it depends on which way you put it. But metaphorically I I can't say yeah but the Quran condemns the usage of the term father you look at ay 18 it says the Jews consider themselves to be yeah so and Allah condemns that right he says that's wrong yeah because okay but wait wait wait a secondh can can I answer okay first of all the reason why it's condemned and the reason why people can't use it is is because people started worshiping Jesus after they started using son of god and they started associating hardest they committed sherk that's exactly we hear you but it became haram all right let me ask you this if if it was haram before I don't know all right what is what is what is sherk what is sherk just really quick sherik is blasphemy how how to put a partners all the with Allah put a partner with okay good so if somebody were to say all authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me by my father is that person now associating themselves or making a partner

It's a prophet. It's a prophet. Yeah. So, is a is that prophet making himself a prophet of God? Wait, wait. It's the same as in the Quran when Allah says when Allah says that whoever that hurts the prophet has hurt Allah. That that's fine. But the prophet is Allah. Does the prophet have all authority? What does a prophet have all authority in heaven and earth? According to for example, we have we have a different sex in Islam, right? According to different

You're a Sunni Muslim. Wait, wait, wait. You're a Sunni Muslim.

Yes, I'm sir. Who has who has authority in heaven and and earth? Allah. Thank you. Anyone else? If someone were to claim that they also have all authority in heaven and on earth, are they can't be gi Wait, wait. It can't be given at some point to a prophet.

No. No. Or else that would be sh that would be associated. My damn look. You think have all authority in heaven? Let's put this together. Okay. Yes. All authority on heaven and earth given to him. Yep. So now that means that he's a partner. He's a partner with Allah now.

Okay. Okay. David was the one that took up that it says that in the Q gospel, right?

No, you brought up you brought up Q. Yeah, but you you said that it says in the other guy who brought up. So was was Jesus crucified in this queue or not? Was Jesus crucified in the queue?

No. No. No. Are you Can you give me a reference where it says that he was crucified?

Wow. So, so where where do you think we find Q? Guys, we're on a we're on a good little level here. Just let me complete this thought with him really quick. Okay, so on this association because I think that once he sees that this is association, he has to drop this whole thing.

Okay, but can I ask you can I just ask you something before you ask a question? Let's let's focus. Can but can I ask you one question? Just hold on a second. I need you to focus with me, please. If someone else has all authority in heaven on earth, are they now a partner with Allah in in heaven and earth? With all authority. Okay. So, can some so someone else can have all authority besides Allah in heaven and earth? Wait a second. Wait a second. Can I Okay. Can I can I can someone have all authority in heaven and earth besides Allah?

Listen. Can I answer I will answer you. Okay. Let's say I have a huge house, right? I have a palace, right? And I have the keys. I'm losing my I'm losing my patience. Zera, it's either you answer this question or I'm going to move on to the next question. But but I'm I'm trying to answer I'm trying to give an analogy. I'll ask it again. But I I I'm answering you by giving someone have all authority in heaven and on earth besides Allah. Yes or no?

Yes, it can. But can I answer? You've just left Sunni Islam. You've just left. Can I give you the analysis? You just left Islam right now. Can I can I can I substantiate my claim?

Yeah, dude. You can't say it's because Allah granted it because that means Allah commit shik against himself.

Okay, but can can I can I silly argument? It's a silly argument. I know what you say. Say Allah granted it. Wait. Allah can't grant against himself. I don't care about your house and your No, it's okay. This this can you read this verse on the screen? Read this verse. Okay. Okay. Can Can I substantiate my claim?

Yeah. Read this verse first. Praise be to Allah who had not taken unto himself a son who had no partner in the sovereignity nor had he any sovereignty.

Okay. Sovereignty. My English is not perfect. It's all right. Friend through dependence and magnify him with all magnif. Okay. Very good. Do you know what sovereignty means? Let's see if uh let's see if we get a simpler word. Let's see what sahi international says here. Okay. Right. Has no partner in his dominion. Right. Okay. Dominion, sovereignty, authority. Okay. You're saying that someone can have all authority in heaven and on earth? I'm not saying they're saying they're given something if the Okay. If they Is Allah the only one who has all authority in heaven and earth right now?

Yes. So if he gives someone else all authority in heaven and earth sharing authority with Allah, right? It doesn't mean he loses it though.

Doesn't matter if he loses it. The point is he's just got a partner, right? He's sharing it, right? He's just got a buddy. But he will always be the the the the head with his part with his partner.

No, but he he will not be on the exact same level. Would it be sharing? Yes or no? He will always be something above. Hey, take care of yourself.

Yeah. So, you can This is wild. This is Take care of yourself, ladies and gentlemen.

Yeah. Yes. By the way, he's saying so he's saying that Allah could have a Allah could have someone who that he shares all authority in heaven on earth with and not be a partner somehow. Let me make sure I get that. And by the way, the prophet the modern prophet of Muslims Berman actually does believe that Q did actually contain the passion narrative in it. So if you want to argue with Berman about that, you can do that. Well, there would be there would be multiple problems. So Q would be Q would be a sayings document and so on. The Quran says that Jews and Christians still had the Torah and the Gospel in the seventh century. No one had Q. No one had Q. It was a first century. If it's it's a theoretical document that existed in the first century and parts of it were incorporated into into other sources, but you don't have a no one has a copy of Q. And so the idea that that's what that that's what the Quran is saying that Jews and Christians have in the in the seventh century that's false. And therefore if the Quran is saying that then the Quran would be wrong. Two uh he's saying that if that's what Christians are commanded to judge by. So if Christians are commanded to judge by Q, Christians didn't have Q, why would Allah be commanding Christians to judge by Q? If verse 68 of surah 5 is talking about Q as he claimed, this would be saying that Christians, you have no ground to stand upon unless you stand fast by the Torah and Q, which you don't have because it it it it didn't exist past the the first century. So, I think you're right, uh Jay and uh and doc, I think the guy misunderstood when he quoted 568. I think he actually misread it and then as he started to realize he just pivoted to I was trying to help him. I thought oh he misread it. It was funny though. I couldn't believe it. The book is not the not the Torah. Yeah. For every for everyone who's watching if if you know we have tons of verses dozens of verses we can go to for the Islamic dilemma. If we had to make like a top five list, surah five, chapter 5 verse 60 is probably on all our top five list because it's where it's where Allah says he commands Muhammad to say uh to the people of the book that we have no ground to stand upon unless we make the Torah and the Gospel our foundation. Which means what does that mean? It means we still have it. We can't make it our foundation if we don't have it. So that verse means that we have it and two means that it hasn't been corrupted. Why would he say that you can't you you have nothing to stand upon unless you make a corrupt book that contradicts the Quran, your foundation? It would make no sense. In other words, that's a verse that only makes sense if it's talking about the inspired, preserved,

Authoritative gospel that we have, that's still reliable, hasn't been corrupted, and that is still an authority over us. It does, notice it doesn't tell us to go with the Quran. It says go with your book. You have nothing else to go with. That's that proves our point.

New quote, "Someone besides Allah, powerful, can have all authority in heaven and on earth." Someone besides Allah can have those things. Nice. UA 3-hour and five-minute markish around there. These are going to these I'm telling you guys, I got I got pages of these things, man. Powerful. He just left Islam, that dude, and he came with his face. Just pray nothing bad happens to him.

All right, let's see what else we got. Man, hoping we can get uh let's let me see. Let's Jamal, how you doing?

Good, man. Can you hear me?

Yes, I can hear you.

Good, good, good. Um, yeah, I'm pretty much here to talk about the topic about um the Bible being corrupt.

All right. You're a Muslim, just to make sure.

Uh, no, actually. Um, I just I just agree with Quran's um

Oh, he sounds like the other guy. Nazar, you're on stage. How you doing?

Good. How are you?

Pretty good. Are you a Muslim? I can't believe I have to ask this on my stream.

Yes, you're a Muslim.

Okay, awesome. Do you believe that the previous scriptures have been corrupted?

Yes.

Okay. Do you have a verse in chapter 2 that says that the previous scriptures have been corrupted?

Uh, no. I was going to mention uh I believe it was chapter five.

Okay. So, so just to be clear, there's nothing in chapter 2 that says that the scriptures are corrupted.

Uh, I'm not sure about chapter 2 to be honest.

Okay. Let him go to it, you know, at this point. You guys say, "Yeah." Yeah. I I I think I think that we've established after uh over 3 hours of asking our Muslim friends, can you show us I mean we can show a bunch of verses in surah 2 confirming the previous scriptures in a bunch of different ways making it absolutely indisputable and we asked is there a verse anywhere in there that says something else we can't get one and so I think we just have to take it as the um has conceded surah 2 only affirms our scriptures and doesn't deny them. And therefore, if they want to deny our scriptures, they would have to go somewhere else. And so, yeah, I'm I'm with Chris. If we want to say, okay, then show us some show us something somewhere else.

Which which uh which verse inse 2 are you referring to?

Oh, where where do we begin? 40 to 44, 91, 121, 89. I mean, we too many too many. And the high the highlights would be verse 41 uh where Allah says that he's confirming he's confirming what they had with them. Um verse 44 says he's clearly talking about the book that they had. Uh verse we we spent a lot of time on verse 85 because that's one where he says the exact opposite of what the da guys say. Every da guy will say, "Oh yes, he's affirming that parts of your scriptures are reliable. Therefore, just believe in the parts that are reliable and reject the parts that have been corrupted." when in verse 85 of surah 2, Allah specifically says that he will send people to hell if they only believe in part of the book and not in all of it. And so it's just amazing that we hear Muslims say, "Ah yeah, he's just confirming parts of your book that line up with Islam." When in the Quran, Allah says, "If you don't believe in all of your book, you only believe in parts, I will send you to hell." So da'ah guys basically say, "Tell us to believe things that Allah says he'll send us to hell for." And so very disturbing. And then yeah verse um verse 89 91 um 101 121 121 says that that that we that that people recite the book with the correct recitation which would be impossible if they have a corrupted book and so on. So anyways just it's all over the place and we can't find anything that goes against it. And so it's just this weird situation where if Allah keeps affirming our book and somehow Muslims are interpreting this to mean that he's saying our book is corrupted, we don't even know what to believe at that point because he'd basically be saying that Allah when he communicates, he says the opposite of what he actually means. In which case, we don't know what to believe. If he if he says don't if he says say not three, I guess he would mean oh say three. Definitely say three. If he says that Jesus didn't die by crucifixion, that would be him saying yeah Jesus died by crucifixion. If if Allah says the opposite of what he means, then we don't know what to believe about the Quran anymore. So that that's kind of the point from surah 2. And we just spent over three hours asking Muslims, show us where surah 2 is saying that the scriptures have been corrupted. Uh we haven't gotten anything. We've gotten Abbas. Uh we've gotten surah 5. And so anyway, so at this point, we're just

What do you got?

I see. So I guess I'll start with uh chapter five, which is

Which which first?

Uh uh I'm get I can I can tell you you're either going 13 to 15 or you're going verse 48. And neither one of those going to work out. Go 68.

Oh yeah, you go 68 and 40 and 47 and 43 and 66. Yeah. 14 14 14. Okay, go ahead. What's your argument?

Mhm. Uh and from those who say we are Christians, we took their covenant, but they neglected a portion of what they had been commanded to uphold. So we let hostility and enimity arise between them until the day of judgment. And soon Allah will inform them of all they have done.

Okay. And also verse 13, but for

Can we do one by one? Can we do one by one?

Just

Well, yeah. Basically 13 and 14 is what I'll say.

Okay. So where is in 13 and 14? Does it say they corrupted the book by saying that they broke the covenant?

Okay. I can break a covenant right now mean I've I've changed my book. One second. You can go one by one. Okay. Verse 13. Breaking the covenant doesn't mean the book is is is is at fault.

Yeah. There there are Muslims who break their who are Muslims who break their covenant. That that wouldn't mean that the Quran's been corrupted.

Okay. Do you agree with that?

Part part of part of breaking a covenant means distorting the word of God.

Where does it say that?

No. Where does it say that breaking a covenant is distorting the book?

It doesn't need to say that. That's

Dude, I'm telling you, I can break a promise right now. It doesn't

Okay, then after that, well, okay, the full verse says, "But for breaking their covenant, we condemn them and harden their hearts." They distorted the words of the scriptures and

Okay. Where is what is the Arabic for that? Just so we go bit by bit. Where is the Arabic for that?

Uh, this is horrible. I just

And they forgot part of what they were reminded of.

Where does it say anything about the book being changed?

Well, why did they forget?

Dude, I can forget right now. That doesn't mean the book Muhammad forgot.

Yeah, Muhammad forgot parts of the Quran.

Yep. Forgetting doesn't mean the book is bad. Forgetting means the people are bad.

Are we are we willing to say that the Quran's corrupted because Muhammad forgot such and such verses in such and such surah?

What's his name?

Where is Where is your Wait, how where's your proof that Muhammad

Dude, you said you said what's your name?

Sorry. Nazar.

Nazar. Nazar. You said and they forgot part of what they were reminded of it. They they forgot. So I can you can forget some verses of the Quran right now. Does that mean the Quran is corrupted?

Of course not.

If I forgetting something one by one, one by one, forgetting something doesn't mean the book is is at fault.

Yes, of course. But if you forget it and then you go and try to write down what what you remember off of your memory, your broken up memory.

Where does it say that they wrote some of it from memory?

Then what what is what is the Bible and Torah?

We don't know. I'm asking you from the Quran. Where does it say they wrote something from memory?

Where does it say that?

I'm not sure where you added you just added something to the Quran just to save yourself. It's wrong.

I'm not I'm not saying it's from I'm asking you and you said it's not there. Why did you say it?

Our our Islam isn't just the Quran. It's also the hadith.

Oh, so now you want to jump outside of the Quran. Now, surah 5:14 is no good for you anymore.

Correct.

Well, no. It's not that it's no good for me, but it's because Arabic is a very

Dude, I'm an Arab. I'm an Arab.

I can tell you're Egyptian. You're probably Egyptian from your accent.

Okay. Tell me where it is that they wrote from memory. Anywhere in the hadith.

Again, I'm not like I'm not that.

Well, I'm just here to have a conversation.

I'm not a conversation from your own brain, not from or Quran.

Correct. I never claimed to be like uh like someone who's a scholar educ and the hadith didn't work.

Where else are you going to go?

Well, there we only go to the Quran and hadith. That's it.

Okay. Ya Allah, give give me a Quran hadith. I'm asking you where does it say anywhere in your Quran or hadith? They wrote something from memory.

I wouldn't be right now. I wouldn't be able to tell you. It doesn't exist.

Why' you come?

It doesn't exist. I came I came to have a conversation. That's all. I'm having a conversation and I'm getting nowhere. I need evidence. I can't just believe you, Nazar. I need evidence.

Yeah. Yeah. To to be clear, Nazar. So, well, no, I just saw a lot of people were not right. You're making arguments, bro. Like one after another with no substance. You're like, is you're making up stuff, you know? That's why she's pressing you on things that you say to prove what you say with the Quran and Hadith. And if you're not able to do that, then maybe you should just refrain from saying certain things that you just can't provide evidence for. You know, that'll be a better position for you.

Yeah, I understand what you're saying. I'm just uh I'm just like providing verses that I felt like people might have been sleeping on.

You provided nothing to prove your claim. Maybe it's best, my friend, just to ask us questions and we can just tell you the answers because we've looked into this. So, what is what is your main argument here?

Our main argument is that the Quran repeatedly in surah 2, which is just the one we were really we just looked at this in this live stream, but whatever. In surah 2, it is clear that the Quran is referring to the Torah and the Injil that the Christians and the Jews had in the seventh century that was around at the time of Muhammad. that the Quran is using the Torah and the Jews as an argument to demonstrate that the Jews and the Christians ought to believe in the prophethood of Muhammad because they believe in the previous prophets and they need to uphold the covenant with God by believing in all the prophets making no distinction between them and also accepting Muhammad. That imp that very explicitly implies that they have to believe in the Torah and Injil as sacred scripture. That's the central argument the Quran makes and it's evidence in surah 2 all the way through. Now, you can tell me that's wrong and we can go through all the verses or you can perhaps accept that you don't know enough about this and you need to go and learn this and look into this because we're telling you as people who have spent our own time going through the Quran line by line and have already done surah 2, the longest chapter in the Quran, we can already tell you the Quran has a very positive view of the Torah and the Injil. The Quran loves the Torah and the Injil. The Quran's favorite books are the Torah and the Injil by far. You know why? Because it they the Quran believes that if only the Jews followed the Torah and if only the Christians followed the Injil that would validate Muhammad. And they're condemning the Christians and Jews for concealing, distorting with their tongues, writing little weird things like David Wood did that don't amount to anything. They're the Quran is condemning them, saying, "Look, stop doing that. Stop concealing. Just accept what is in your Torah and your Injil and accept Muhammad. That's the argument the Quran is making.

Yeah. And the the Quran is obviously referring to the original word of the Torah and the original which believes they have in the seventh century. The It says they have it. It says they have it. All of our manuscript evidence tells us what that is. So, we know it's what we have today. The central themes don't change. Jesus is still God. Jesus is still crucified. Jesus is still resurrected. Jesus can still answer your prayers. We can go through all of this. You're not going to get out of this. It's going to it's going to be a world of pain for you to go down that route.

Let let me just

What I know is that uh like when the first emperor the first Christian emperor Constantine the Great

Yes.

Didn't he apply things from Greek mythology into the Bible?

That's where the translation the Bible was already set long before this. He had nothing to do with anything. In Greek mythology, there's like the f, you know, Zeus's father is this is this is really this is really bad. This is really bad uh stuff here. This is I don't know. I'm not sure.

In other words, I'm not sure what you've been listening to, but um no, this was not Constantine inserting this. We can trace this. We can trace this back to the first century. In other words, we don't say, "But Jesus is the divine son of God because of Constantine." We got the words of Jesus. Jesus made these claims about himself. And so uh we could and we could trace that right back to the first century. So you can't blame someone who came centuries later for unless you want to say he got he built a time machine and then went back to the first century.

Sort of these these ideas. But I just wanted to show I just wanted to show what happens when you actually read these passages in context. So you brought up 513 and 5:14. When you read what it's actually saying it it it's more confirmation of what we're talking about. So let me just go and read this for everybody. So verse 13. But because of their breach of their covenant, we curse them and made their hearts grow hard. They change the words from their right places and forget a good portion of the message that was sent them. So Muslim you daw guys will go to that and say aha they changed the words from their they changed the words from the right places. See this is talking about the corruption of the text. But that doesn't know you have to try to figure out what the Quran is saying because in 3:78 he clearly says that it's with their speech that they change the that they twist the scripture. They twist the scripture with their speech. So, does changing words does that mean they're actually sitting down with a with a copy of the of the Bible and changing it? Or is it talking about what they're doing with their speech? Well, just keep reading. So, they change their words from the right places and forget a good part of the message that was sent them. Nor wil thou cease to find them, barring a few, ever bent on new deceits, but forgive them and overlook their misdeeds. For God loves those who are kind. From those two who call themselves Christians, we did take a covenant, but they forgot a good part of the message that was sent them. So we estranged them and enmity and hatred between the one and the other to the day of judgment. And soon will God show them what they have done. And then the very next verse, oh people of the book, there has come to you our apostle revealing to you much that you used to hide in the book. That's the thing. You're you're hiding it. You're hiding what the book says. That's what that's what the Quran is talking about. People misrepresent it. They distort it with their speech and they hide they hide what's in their scriptures. They conceal it. That's very different from saying that you don't have the scripture because the Quran the Quran also says that we that that the people who are corrupting the I mean who are corrupting the message that are distorting the message that they do so knowingly. What's that mean? It means they they know they're they know they're changing the message. They know they're misrepresenting it. They know they're distorting it. That only makes sense if they actually have the real scripture and they're lying about it. That's what that's the position of the Quran. And if it's not clear from from verses 13 to 15, all you have to do is keep reading. You get down to verse 43. The Jews come to Muhammad to settle dispute. What does Allah say? He says, "Why are they coming to you when they have the Torah?" He sends them back to the Torah. You go to verse 47, "Let the people of the gospel judge by what Allah has revealed therein." Uh you go to verse 68, which a friend brought up earlier. uh verse 68 it says Jews and Christians have no ground to stand upon unless they stand fast by the Torah, the gospel and all the revelation that has come to us. In other words, if verse 13 through 15 of this chapter are if those are if those verses are somehow saying our scriptures been corrupted, the rest of the chapter makes absolutely no sense because Allah keeps telling us no, you have to judge by your scriptures. You have no ground to stand upon apart from your scriptures. I affirm your scriptures. Your scriptures are authoritative. That would make no sense if earlier in the same chapter he was saying nope your books have been corrupted that's why you guys need to go to the Quran. If if the if the earlier if 13 to 15 are saying guys your scriptures have been corrupted just go to the Quran. Then when Jews go to Muhammad in verse 43 the response from Allah should have been finally they get it their scriptures have been corrupted and they need to come to you. Not what he says. Says what are you doing coming to Muhammad? Why would they come to why would you come to Muhammad? It makes no sense when you have the Torah. That only makes sense if the Torah is reliable scripture. So does the rest of surah 5. And so once again, we're we're basically taking what Allah says seriously and using the clear verses to interpret ambiguous verses.

What what we find at the da'wah level is they go to ambiguous verses insert the meaning that they want even when that interpretation contradicts the clearest verses in the Quran. And so we're just pointing out this is this is a really bad methodology. And if if if someone wants to use this method methodology, go to ignore all the clear verses. Go to verses that could be interpreted 10 different ways and give it the interpretation you want and use that to ignore all the clearest verses. You could prove anything from any book with that methodology. And so if that is the methodology that DA guys are using, you guys got some problems there because they're using a methodology that could be used to to prove anything from any book. And uh it's just an amazing thing where it's a weird situation where we seem to take Allah's words more seriously than Muslim Dawa guys do.

We we do. We're at least letting Allah speak for himself even though we don't believe that that's really from God.

Fair enough.

Mhm. Yeah. So it seems like what uh V verse uh 43 you said is insinuating is that they still had means that they still had the original

Yeah. Torah.

Yep. But but they were choosing not to basically.

Exactly. Yeah. That's exactly what they're saying. And that's one where we actually have the historical context and the historical. So the Jews come to Muham they don't basically that the story they didn't want to judge according to what's in their Torah. So they go to Muhammad to try and get a different judgment and Allah says what are they coming to you for when they've got the Torah send them back to the Torah. In the historical background uh Jews come to Muhammad and Muham Muhammad sits on this judgment cushion. There was a a cushion that signified that you're the judge of a dispute. Muhammad says to the Jews, "Bring me the Torah." And so they actually bring him a physical copy of the Torah. Muhammad gets off the cushion, puts the Torah on the cushion, and says to the Torah, "I believe in you and in the one who revealed you." So, I mean, it's I'm read we're reading these passages. It's like, how many different ways can Allah and Muhammad affirm and show and demonstrate that they're affirming these scriptures? It's like all these different ways. And so, yes, what the Quran what the Quran is saying there, Jews have to judge by the Torah. A few verses later, verse 47, Christians judge by what Allah revealed in the Gospel. And then the Quran in the very next verse says that the that the Quran is the Muhaman, the uh the uh the protector or guardian of the previous scriptures. You say, "How is the Quran the protector or guardian?" It shows you in context that Jews and Christians are trying to avoid what's in their scriptures. And Muhammad says, "No, you don't avoid what's in your scriptures. You go right back to your scriptures." Which makes zero sense if the Quran is saying the scriptures have been corrupted.

We got a super chat from Rob says, "If you morons knew Arabic, you would know that I believed in thee and in him who revealed thee means I believed in parts of thee." Get it together, guys. Learn Arabic.

Powerful stuff. So then it seems like during the time of Muhammad, the the original the original scriptures did exist as well as the as well as corrupted scriptures.

Yes.

Okay. So we don't know about any corrupted scriptures according to the Quran. But what you what you just said is correct. At least according to the Quran, these scriptures, the Torah and the Gospel still existed during the time of Muhammad. So the seventh century. So they still existed. They were still reliable and preserved and they were still authoritative. In other words, Jews and Christians have to judge by their books, not go to the Quran. And they are held accountable according to that. So Allah will judge them and there is a moral duty on Christians and Jews to follow their books.

Mhm. And and basically that's the Islamic dilemma because what that means if the if the Torah and the Gospel are still reliable and authoritative in the seventh century that means they were preserved from the first century to the second century to the third century to the fourth century to the fifth century to the sixth century all the way into the seventh century and all the way down into Arabia. Guess what? We have copies of the Torah and the Gospel from before this time and from after this time. We know what the Torah and the Gospel say and yet the Torah and the Gospel contradict basic teachings of the Quran. And that puts our Muslim friends in a dilemma because either we have the inspired preserved authoritative word of God or or we don't. It's got to be it's one or the other. And so if we have the inspired preserved authoritative word of God as the Quran claims, then Islam is false because Islam contradicts our our book on basic teachings. So if we have the word of God, Islam is false. But the the alternative is if we don't have the inspired preserved authoritative word of God, if we got something that's corrupted or something like that, then the Quran is still false because the Quran affirms the inspiration and the preservation and the continuing authority of our scriptures. And so if our if our scriptures aren't from God, then the Quran is still wrong. So either way, the Quran turns out to be wrong. That's why we call it the Islamic dilemma. If we have the word of God, Islam is false. If we don't have the word of God, Islam is false. Either way, Islam is false. And that means Islam is false.

That's interesting because from what I know is the the original uh Torah and the original injil they were they were lifted up into the heavens or skies or whatever. That's that's that's further like from what I was taught. How do we how do we

Judge by that? Why would Allah command us to judge by something that went up into the sky? Well, it's after they they've been corrupted that the original text was lifted.

Where's the evidence? Where's the evidence for that, please? Uh, I'm not like like are you talking in terms of hadith or Quran? Anything? Uh, I'm not sure to be honest.

Exactly. It doesn't exist, brother. Whoever told you that. Whoever told you that straight up lied to you. Whoever told you that, do not listen to that person ever again unless he repents and apologizes and uh vows to in the future.

Well, yeah. I mean, this was a good discussion regardless. Again, I need to go do my research more and like look into things more. So, I appreciate appreciate your time, man.

Remember the implications. I know you're leaving, so just please do not sweep this to the side just as a interesting conversation and you know, oh man, I had a good good cool conversation with some Christians today. No, brother, this is this is heaven or hell, life or death here. You know what I'm saying? If this if what we're saying is true, you are in a false religion. Okay? Regardless, you're in a false religion. So, you got to take please take this seriously and consider everything that you know that uh we broke down to you. Okay? And and when you research this and you're looking at the Hadith or the the Quran verses yourself and you're seeing it for yourself, take it seriously. Please take it seriously. Okay?

Of course. I always do. I always do. Okay. You have a good day, man. Be blessed.

You as well. You as well. All right. Take care. Take care.

All right, guys. Uh, I usually stop at the 3-hour mark. We've gone 30 minutes over. You guys feeling okay? I got a few guests. How y'all feeling? I'm going to continue, but I'll leave it up to what you guys want to do.

Okay. Yeah, we're good. Yeah, we're cool.

Well, well, well. And and and Dizzle, you good, man? I normally go to midnight, man. What are you talking about? You That That's on a good night's sleep, though, ain't it?

Yeah. Be all right. What sleep? Is this this this my third this my third mug of coffee today? Wait, is that is that a huge cut like mug or are you just holding it really close to the camera?

No, that that's uh here's it beside my head. Okay, it's pretty decent size.

Yeah. Shoot. All right, let's get a couple of super chats before I bring up my next guest. We got Matthew the follower who says, "Hey, Dizzle, you're truly awesome at apologetics. Giant DLC so fearless and courageous for the faith. Chris so eloquently putting forth thought-provoking questions. Oh, hey Logic. Hey, don't do them like that. Love you." I was say I was gonna say that's so thoughtful, but then all a sudden he's like, "Oh, hey Logic." I'm like, "Oh, hey." Oh, man. W Super Chat, man. That was awesome.

Um, Mark says, "I always laugh when DLC, who is deficient, loses her patience and starts humiliating them. I stopped being deficient when I followed the Lord Jesus. He gave me the other half of my brain." That's right. That's right. We got uh Jean with a $100 super chat. Thank you so much. Says, "Happy Good Friday all Avery. We've uh heard it happened enough times that you should have a Sherk category for your book. Uh a little wait, what is it? All Azizo gave me fizzle. Alzo gave me fizzle. Of course you you me interpret that real good. I should have been able to see that. You you didn't grow up on Snoop. I I I did not. Fortunately, I didn't. But uh man, that's that's that's awesome. Like, what? That was my great grandpa who grew up on Snoop. No, you But this is a good idea. In my in my Caffer Sherk book, um uh my BA book, I I I should categorize the Sherk moments. Not just the Ba moments, but the complete Sherk moments. I need to categorize them in the in my bida book. So yeah, that's a good idea, Jean. That's a good idea. This this live stream has been sherktastic. Shercastic. Sherktastic.

Iban. All right. You got an echo, Iban Omar, on your on your app or I'm used to Tik Tok. Go ahead and close YouTube. It should stop the echo. I'm going to bring you back up though. But shut YouTube down. Close YouTube. You probably got that open. I'mma bring you up now. Up now. You're still an echo. Still. Is it Is it better now? Testing. Testing. Testing. Testing. Testing. Got an echo. Is this an That's an echo. Really? You got headphones or something? Headphones or something? Headphones. Um Yeah. Hang on a minute. Gosh. Yeah. What about that? [Music] No. Did I do anything? [Music] Can you hear me? Rumbling around. Rumbling around. It's still an echo. Is it still echoey or still mute YouTube or close the tab? Yeah. Try to if you have YouTube open, close YouTube. If you have a YouTube open on a tab or something, close it. It I'll try to close everything except for this. Check. Okay. Check. Is that fast enough? Because I'm using my I'm using my phone. So, that could be a reason why. If you are using your phone, please take if you're using AirPods, take off the AirPods. If you're connected to any Bluetooth, disconnect and just use your straight you you know use your phone straight up. Hey, you sound like a flight attendant. If you got your Bluetooth on, please for the remainder of the flight. Let's go ahead and All right, Ebanar. Got gotta move on, man. gotta get that fixed and we'll try uh we'll try to see uh see if we need Leon back.

Yeah, Leon. Yeah, John, that's your fault. That was my bad. Sorry, Leon. Forgive me. Leon did the best out of all of them.

Uh Samir, how you doing? Uh good evening all. Can you hear me? Yes, we can hear you. Fine, man. How you doing? Nice. Hi. Um I just like to start off my um discussion simply just with a simple point and then we can expand on it.

Sure. Yeah. So basically the point I want to bring up is essentially where it says that the Quran affirms the Bible. If the Quran says it confirms the uh previous scriptures, meaning the Bible and Torah, it's it means that it's affirming the core truth in previous revelations, it doesn't necessarily mean it rubber stamps every part of the Bible.

I think this is so just to be clear, you're saying that the Quran might be saying that it only confirms parts but not all of it. And therefore, we would have to find the correct parts and then reject other parts that are wrong or corrupted. That right?

No, not necessarily. Maybe there's an example I could use. If I say, for example, I can confirm that your newspaper reported the fire correctly. It doesn't mean I endorse everything in the uh paper for example.

Yeah. But suppose element is still there. Do you get it? Yes. But suppose someone says, "Hey, uh, you've got the paper and you have to believe in all the paper, and if you don't believe in all the paper, I'll send you to hell." That would sound like it's not just affirming some little part of it, but but all of it, right?

Well, we we'd have to confer various uh verses to to get that um conclusion you made. What What if there was one What if there was one verse that says But we don't just rely on one verse, do we? I know, but I'm just saying what if there was a what if there was one verse that says, "Hey, um you have all the paper, so don't just pick part of the paper that you believe in, but believe all of it. Whoever picks part of the paper to to trust, uh they are disgraced in this life and will go to hell." That wraps it all up, right?

No, I disagree actually. And the point I want to bring up is uh where the prophet Muhammad peace be upon him uh a common rebuttal I hear from Christians is he was told to judge by the Torah. Well, we we'll get to that in a second. But just specifically on on how why why do you disagree that if you have a verse matter of fact we do have a verse because we do we have a verse in the Quran that says uh do you believe in part of the scripture while rejecting the rest and the reward for those who do so is disgrace in this life and uh severe torment in in the hereafter. So, the Quran literally uh rejects people who believe in part of their scripture, right?

Hey, look, uh this is me taking your word for it. Um I haven't, you know, no I'm not saying get up, but what I'm trying to say is that I don't know the context as to why this verse was revealed. For example, it's about the 10th century.

Yeah, we can we can we can we can tell you exactly what the historical context is. Um, you had three Jewish tribes, two Arab tribes in Medina. Uh, two of the Jewish tribes aligned with one Arab tribe. Uh, one of the Jewish tribes aligned with the other Arab tribe. And when the two Arab tribes would fight, you would have Jews fighting on both sides of the battle. And the Quran uh basically says that you guys are picking and choose. You're not supposed to be fighting your fellow Jews. And therefore, you're picking and choosing what to believe in the Torah. And then in that context, it says, "Do you only believe in parts of the book and not all of it?" And he says, "If you only believe in parts, if you pick and choose what you're going to believe from your book, I'm going to send you to hell." Which if the Torah had been changed or altered or had false teachings in it, then you would have to believe in you're you it should be telling you to just believe in parts, not all of it. Just find the find the correct parts and not believe in all of it. But what he says is if you only believe in parts and not believe in all of it, then Allah will send you to hell. So we have this weird situation where Dawa guys are telling us to do something. They say, "Hey, just just believe in parts of the book." When Allah says, "If you only believe in parts, he's going to send you to hell." So we have this weird situation where Dawa guys are telling us the exact opposite of what Allah says. And da guys are telling us to do what Allah says he'll send us to hell for doing.

Yeah. But um my point is where for example the Jews are told to judge by their Torah, uh you might say that indicates is intact, but I would say it's addressing the Jews or even the Christians where perhaps this does apply to them.

Uh, dude, you didn't know the verse and you didn't know the context. So, how can you be in any position to argue anything? Uh, at the same time, I don't believe you're a scholar either.

I know the verse, which is more than what you did, and I have read the context. I'm sorry. I'm asking the question. You're not my point of reference for

I know, but your point of reference is the Quran. I say I say respect. Yeah, respectfully. I say that respectfully. You know, the Quran's the Quran's a big book.

Um, yeah, the Quran is a big book. You didn't know any of it. Uh, you didn't know the You didn't know there was a verse that said, "We can do a pop quiz if you want." What I'm saying is, what I'm saying is you came on a subject, specific subject, and you had no idea. We diverted to this specific point. I had no idea that the Quran said believe in all your scripture, not just part, and you didn't know the context.

I'm actually aware of this, but why I said I said I was going to start off with a simple point and we could build on it. So I'm just trying to get like let's say we're having a simple point from your brain or from the Quran. I just want to know so I know. Let's just see this discussion as two people just having a conversation about about the Quran not about your life. I'm not here to I didn't say my life. I said just I want to talk about the reading of the books for let's say we're in a classroom and we're just discussing dude about the Quran not about anything.

Yes. That's what I'm saying. Give me a verse in the Quran where it says the Bible is corrupted.

The Bible is corrupted. You're not you're not going to accept. Give me a verse from your Quran. You're not going to accept. I've heard you dismiss it.

Yeah, because based on based on what it said based on what it says. Not based on myself.

Grapes right now? Pardon? It's not based on myself. It's based on your scholars and that shake logic. And I was I was talking today. I just hate I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I just hate arrogance. My point. I hate arrogance and I hate British arrogance where I don't know anything. I don't know the context, but what I think I'm sorry. I don't identify British. I'm sorry.

No. No. I'm British, by the way, and so is Chris and we hate British arrogance. You don't sound British. Okay. So, so, so, so, so, so, so, so here we are. So, sorry, guys, we've derailed the the conversation. We got We got

It's all good. We got Sah 285. Yes. And, and it literally condemns picking and choosing what parts of the scripture you believe in. It literally condemns that. So, you have to believe in it all based on 285.

Okay. I've already said to you this verse. Uh I want to go on to the verses that I know, you know. We respect the verse. If you can't I don't want to speak out of knowledge, guys. You know, like a

So you went from not knowing the verse to knowing the verse and now you don't know the verse again. What did I say? I know the verse. I said I said earlier you just said you just said you know the verse. You said I know the verse. You said you did say let's have another verse that nullifies the first one. Go on.

So, can we So, so I I know you're saying that you don't you're not familiar with the verse. I I hear you're saying that. Can we can you can you I said that from the beginning, but can you can we at least agree because we're you know we we have reading comprehension. We're all adults here.

Yeah. Cool. Can we based on the reading can we agree that it it categorically condemns cherrypicking versus say believing in part of scripture and rejecting other parts? Can we agree that it categorically condemns that?

Yeah. Yeah. I agree with you on that. Okay, fair enough then.

Yeah. All right. So, the way you've explained it to me, yes, I I can't dispute with you on what you've said. So, our position is and I and I'll let you uh build on this. Our position is that the Quran since the Quran categorically condemns believing in part of the scripture and rejecting the rest. Then we we you can't say that oh part of the scripture is corrupted uh while other parts are true. That's you doing exactly what Allah says not to do.

Okay. So that's that's our position. But I I would also say, you know, for example, these uh these verses uh you there's also inferred meaning. For example, I don't want to go to Christianity per se, but for example, you know, uh the trinity isn't mentioned explicitly. How do you derive that same meaning? Why why do you not apply the same standards?

Is explicitly mentioned in the Quran? No, it's not exactly. So you can derive something still when it's not mentioned by 275 because the entirety well first of all 275 doesn't imply what you think it does but even the entirety of surah 2 gives the total opposite and that's the whole point of our argument. It's the whole point of the Quran's argument. It's telling you you need to believe in the previous scriptures in order to follow that faithfully follow Allah. Believe in him the last day do righteous acts. And guess what you know what that means? It means you should believe in Muhammad because Muham because Muhammad affirms the previous scriptures. He's just simply put your point is that if someone wants to follow

No, no. I'm saying like but but your interpretation is if someone was to follow the Sorry. Sorry. Well, what I'm trying to say is if someone follows this the way it's um stated that if you follow the Bible even though it's corrupt that you can't go to you can't find the truth is um do you know the story of Salman al- Fari? Do you know this story of the Jew who became a Muslim? uh Christian. No, no, sorry.

Oh, sorry. I'm thinking of Abdullah. I know. I know he was I know he was converted because of a mole on Muhammad's back. That was his evidence. And uh what was his reference? I don't know. There's no He was following He was following the Bible. He was a Christian. There's no mole on in anywhere in the Bible. There's nowhere in the Bible that says there's a mole on a prophet's back. So, what was he following? So, following

Can you tell us? For us, the easiest answer would be that the Quran is false or that these stories are false. But but this man he's his story this is this is a sahaba in our tradition.

Are you saying that wait are you saying that this is historical that this is in part of your Islamic history and it's accurate we should trust it?

Yeah for sure. Oh okay. So do you know how old um sal you know how old Salman Far was according to your traditions when he died? When he died? Yeah. How old was he? He was really old right? Maybe like 80 90.

Yeah. No, no. How how old how old does Anoi say that he was? Well, when sorry just to clarify when he died or converted when he died, how old how how many years did he live? I wouldn't know but I know he lived when he was 250 to 350 years old.

And you're saying that this is historical. We should trust this. According according to the great Islamic sciences, Salman Fari lived 200 to 350 years and he was convinced that Muhammad was a prophet because he saw a mole on his back. And you also have to fact check that one, you know, but uh we have it right here. We have it right here. Fact check. Fact check available now. Go ahead.

Okay. We have it right here. I don't know if you know Arabic. Do you know Arabic? Uh okay. Listen to this and tell me what you think. You with me so far? I'm with you. Yeah. 250 years. It says that and it was said means it was said. So 250 to 350 years and it was said and he actually he was so old that he knew someone who knew Jesus. What that's how old Pharisees is according to your scholars and he want us to believe that it's all historical and all believable. He saw some that's your rebuttal. I need I need to do my research. He saw some more on Muhammad.

Can we take the story the story as it goes because it kind of disproves your your um Christian was following the second following his Bible. I just want to prove that Salman Ferris's story is all made up because apparently he was 200 to 300 years old and he saw some mole on someone's back and he read a mole in the Bible which there was there was many signs given to him that the the prophet was in a land of uh date palms this kind of stuff. Uh there was also so it's not just that one specific. He never existed, dude. He never existed, my friend. 350 years. Come on, man. So this is this is your this is your We're just showing you the science your so-called sciences of Islam.

Yeah, it means nothing. Yeah, it's just some people in the desert. You know, an example of someone and you even went to Ibn Masoud. I don't know who mentioned it as well, but what was he following? Mas who had a different Quran from you now? Do you really want to go there?

No, but let's just talk in theory about uh this concept. I don't want to talk in theory. I know. I know. But I'm trying I'm just trying to get uh some thought process here as to why can't we why can't someone uh like I said the parable. Let's maybe use a parable for example. Like someone wrote a letter, right? A king wrote a letter over generations. It's been changed. Uh there's some alteration, some editing. Do you know Do you know what a word? Do you know what a word salad the content of a message? Do you know what a word salad is?

A word salad. Did you say? Yeah. Do you know what a word salad is? No, I've not heard this terminology. It's what it's what your speech right now is word salad.

Word salad. So that means it's healthy. Thanks. It means it's got lots of stuff in it without any actual evidence. All the essential nutrients five a day. All that kind of stuff. You're do still doing it. You're actually explaining the word salad salad. Of course, you need some protein as well. I gave you some manif that's evidence that's evidence of an early Muslim there that followed exactly what you guys um Samir.

So, this is what we need, brother. We need we need a verse in the Quran that um 279, bro. Like a thousand times. There we go. All right. All right. So, you you heard us go through 79 doesn't talk about corruption though of a text. So when it says, "Woe to those who wrote the book with their own hands." How how do you interpret that? Like I don't know how.

Okay. So wait, wait. Woe to those who wrote the book with their own hands. They said it's from Allah and they sold it for a little gain and then he condemns them for doing it. How do you know it's not condemning them for selling it for a little gain? How do you know it's the bit that says they wrote it saying it's from Allah?

Because it say repeat again. Sorry. So what I'm saying is if you read the verse especially given that in the prior verses it says these people who were doing this uh didn't actually know anything of the actual scriptures when they were writing these books but when they were writing these books uh saying it was from Allah writing it with their hands then choosing to sell it for a little gain and then the verse goes on to condemn them for it. How do you know the condemning bit is not just applied to the bit where they sell it to selling it?

Yeah, I hear what you're saying. Maybe the Quran's just saying yeah don't don't sell these things. It's bad. Stop doing it.

No, but uh this is this is not the position that I think majority of scholars have. You know, the majority of the scholars say it's another book that's got nothing to do with the Torah or the Gospel if you're going to go scholars. But but either way, uh it confirms that changes were made.

Wait, wait, wait. I don't understand. Wait, wait, wait. If you even go with the taps opinions of people, there are different there are different perspectives, but one that's quite common is just the idea that there was a small group of people who were the children of Israel who heard the words of Allah and they chose to misinterpret these words and to write this down and to sell it for a little game. Now, keep in mind the point of the these uh these exed is that this is some people doing it. It's not all people. And keep in mind they are not distorting the actual words by destroying them, removing them, fundamentally changing them forever, universally corrupting them. It they don't believe any of that at all. The early Tapsier writers are just talking about the fact that hey, some Jews a long time ago, wrote their own thing, and they sold it for a little gain. That's it.

Yeah. And um I believe that it's referring to scribes, right? The actual people of knowledge.

No, it ain't. It ain't it ain't rabbis. No, not the rabbis. It said they were even one opinion that says that those people didn't even believe in any prophet or any messenger. They're just random people. They called the illiterates. This is this is this is not what I've uh this is. It's a previous verse. It's a it's it's Tabari. It's from Tabari who's with all respect is better better than you in in Islam and and closer to Muhammad.

Keep in mind though, my friend, this is kind of where it's going to back bite you in the back here. The Quran is very clear that they actually did have the scriptures, the Torah and the angel at the time of Muhammad in a way that was truthful and contained

The true recitation. So really, this is kind of redundant. I mean, the Quran is making an argument that, yeah, you should believe in the Quran, you should believe in Muhammad because of the Torah and the Israel. If if you're telling me, no, no, the Torah and the Israel, they were corrupted at some point, you've basically just said that the Quran is kind of foolish because it cuts its own argument up. The Quran doesn't even know what it's doing, what you're saying, but which is why if I was a Muslim, I would never say that. I would never say what you're saying because I Why does the Quran then go to specify that it's Muheim over the other scriptures? What does Muhammad mean? Yeah. What does that word mean? Just like it's uh basically my my simple understanding. I'm not, you know, an Arabic expert, but from what I've led to believe, it's the it's authority. It's got authority over the other books. Isn't it one of Allah's names? Yes. It's also a name. Yeah. Okay. If you if I were to go right now in Allah's names, what would it tell me that Muayan means? Is it going to tell me criteria or is it going to tell me something different? And is it going to tell me consistently something different? I don't even see where you're going with this. So my point is that the term has different meanings and is applied when talking about Allah in a totally different way. So what I'm saying is is that you have to reach deep into a very specific interpretation of this word, which is not the most obvious. In fact, I think there are plenty of other more obvious explanations for this word, and you're going to have to stick with that. And if you're gonna do that, it's going to be one of the unclear verses. Okay. If if that's what you say.

But um one one thing I don't understand, right? Jesus as well himself in the um the Bible. Sorry. He condemns the the Jews, right? Sorry, the rabbis for also making um al alterations I believe or not, you know, following. No, I didn't. No. For following the Pharisees. He has he has a similar condemnation that Allah has against some of the Jews and the Christians is that they are they would they're distorting the scripture with their tongues and misinterpreting and making up their own traditions and putting them on the level as the word of God. And what what's the difference with the Quran? It says they actually done it with their hands. Well, no, it doesn't. The Quran doesn't say they did. We've just read it. We just read You didn't What? Okay. So, if I read it, let me let me run a thought experiment with you. If I write a fake book, David, can you hold up what you wrote? Yeah, I've heard this, bro. I've heard this. You did? What'd you hear? Yeah, but you But you never you never took it on, did you? Because you just you need to prove that this what David Wood has wrote has somehow universally changed the Quran. Obviously it hasn't, right? So likewise in 279 if you take the exedites interpretation as correct, I'm even granting you that it still doesn't get you to where you need to be because it doesn't tell you that all of the Torah because this is only talking about the Torah by the way. This isn't even talking about the Injial. So that's problematic. Yeah.

But if if you would need to say that this means all of the Torah has been universally worldwide across all of the Jewish diaspora across all of the synagogues. It's been fundamentally changed in its core themes and doctrines. You need to demonstrate that and you need to give an account as how that's even possible. I think it's as simple Ta and other scholars even kind of laugh at this idea because even they know that's ridiculous, right? You can't tell people, hey, uh, all of the Jews corrupted all of their Torah universally everywhere all at once. And keep in mind, this is the Torah, so the Christians believe in it as well. So you need to believe that all of the Jews from all the different sects come together to agree to change the Torah across all the different synagogues, across all the Jewish diaspora, all over the world, all at once in uniform with co-collaboration from all the different Christian sects that also have the Torah. You believe that happened? I can't say. Come on. It would be beyond absurd to believe that happened. But uh also it wouldn't all I do know is the Jews in Medina were doing this. Okay. So if that's the point if the Jews of Medina let's suppose let's suppose they took a Torah and they completely changed it and and made it completely different and so on. What would that have to do with the Torah being around the world? That's the problem with I could take a copy of the Quran right now. I could take a copy of the Quran right now completely change every single word. That wouldn't change the Quran because that doesn't change the Quran in other parts of the world. Yeah. What Chris is pointing out, what Chris is pointing out is Jews in Medina could do absolutely anything that they wanted with the Torah. They could completely rewrite it, make it something completely different. That wouldn't change copies of the Torah in Egypt. That wouldn't change copies of the Torah in Rome. It wouldn't change any copy of the Torah anywhere else. And as Chris pointed out, guess what? Christians also have the Torah by this point, right? They have it as part of their Bible at this point. So, in order to get this universal corruption that you would need, it would have to be Jews somehow all over the planet say, "Hey, did you hear? We got the we got the call in from the Jews of Medina, and we all need to change our change our our Toras in exactly the same way. And, oh, let's make sure Christians are on board. Hey, Christians, be sure you change your Torah all over the place in exactly the same way." We're pointing out that that's that would be insane. It would be completely insane to think that anything like that happened, but that's what you need in order for Torah 2 verse 79 to somehow be saying the Torah has been just it's just been corrupted.

David, simply put, I'm just of the opinion that we won't we don't have the original manuscripts. We don't do you know what I mean? There's no way. We don't have we don't have the original Quran. Yeah. Yeah. What we what we have is your Quran affirming not simply the original manuscripts but the copies that it still existed in 7th century Arabia years later. Yeah. And we got any original manuscripts before the four the Quran doesn't say we have original manuscripts at all just like you don't have the original manuscripts. From that time to now do you still believe you had you have the same Bible? Yes. Because we have we we have copies from before that. We have copies from Codex Citicus, Codex Vaticanis. Those are those are from the um story of the adulterous woman, the King James version up until the 16th century until they found older manuscript evidence. They believed that this existed in the Bible. They believed your God your God affirms the the gospel that existed in 7th century Arabia. If you're saying if you're saying that it's corrupt, if you're saying that it's corrupt, then you're saying your god didn't know what he's talking about. Neither did your prophet. Look at how you interpret it. I've I've given you parables to see how we can interpret it. Dude, you're not Jesus. It's not parables. Surah 6 verse 115 says there's no one can alter his words. So if you believe anything else, you're going against the Quran. Full stop. Okay. Okay. That's it. That's it. Done. I just the same the same consistent standard to how you interpret. Your your God your God promised that there no one can change his words.

Can I can I just read something to you real quick because I'm interested in how you would how you would think about this. Right. I'm gonna read uh surah 2, keeping with the theme. Uh verse 40, right? Yeah. Yeah. It says, "Oh children of Israel, remember my favor which I bestowed upon you and fulfill my covenant upon you and that that I will fulfill your covenant from me and be afraid of only me." And the next ayah says, "And believe in what I have sent down, confirming that which is already with you, and do not be the first to disbelieve in it. And do not exchange my signs for a small price and fear only me." Now, it seems clear from verse 40 that the children of Israel have to follow the covenant with Allah. Yeah. Okay. And this is at the time of Muhammad. Yeah. But I didn't say I never said wait. I want you to explain to me how they can follow the covenant. Perhaps that's the unaltered part. Like uh this is condemns taking part. We've already gone over that. You you can't say that. We've already went through 285. You can't pick parts. You can't cherry-pick. Allah does not like it when you do that. And he says the covenant is binding to the children of Israel. But that's why I said to you where they follow where they follow their scripture as it is can lead them to accepting Islam. Yes. Yeah. That's the whole argument. That's the whole argument the Quran makes. It's look, you follow your Torah because if you do and you follow all of it, not part of it, all of it, it will lead you to accept Muhammad as a prophet. Yes. Iban Mas. Okay. So, okay. So, the So, the Torah um the Islamic dilemma passes then because the Quran contradicts the Torah even though the Quran seems to think it's in full agreement with the Torah. Uh I can't even lie, bro. I'm I'm not getting the point. Uh to be honest, look, if the Quran talks about the Torah and says, "Look, Jews, you have a covenant with me at the time of Muhammad. You need to follow your covenant. Allah wants you to obey your covenant so Allah can obey his covenant with you and fear him. Do not disbelieve in what I have sent down to you and what and what confirms that which is already with you." Talking about their scripture, the Torah, right? Yeah. Okay, cool. So, the Torah is meant to be a something that confirms Muhammad's prophethood. It confirms the Quran. And that's why the Quran bigs up the Torah. It also says you can't take parts of the Torah. You have to take all of it because of 285. We also know the Quran contradicts the Torah in many places. Do you understand how that's a problem? Yeah. The Quran basically gaslights you saying go to this this book it affirms everything I say and then you go to this book it's contradict everything I say. Does it see this is where we said the Muhe term like you can go into how you really want to go that you really want to go down that route cuz we can we have all the um commentaries saying Muhamm means different things and none of them say that the Bible is corrupted.

Can I ask you something real quick as well? You know you talk about this Muhammad thing in 548. Before the Quran was revealed, how would the Christians and Jews to know which part of their scripture was corrupt and which part was true? Th this is uh obviously historical context. What what I'm led to believe is that the general population didn't have access to the um scriptures that it was in the hands of um it was in the hands of like you know uh the rabbis or the priests etc. And this is okay. Okay. All of the rabbis and all of the priests across all of the world, right? How were they to follow the non-corrupted parts of their scripture? How are they to do that? The non But this is the thing. I've I've read some uh some books on how the Bible is transmitted. I know that there's um territorial differences. Uh okay, let's different versions of the Bible. Let's grant Let's grant you mean they don't all follow the same. Okay, let's grant you that's the case, right? There's differences as corruptions, whatever. Okay, fine. According to the Quran, Wait, wait, wait. According to the Quran, the Jews and the Christians have to follow according to their scripture to honor their covenant. You're you're telling me that the Quran in surah 548 is the criteria for them to do that? How do they do that before the Quran is revealed? So, how do they do that before the Quran was revealed? Yes. If they don't have the criteria, how do they do it? If if they're on the right path like Solomon al Farci then I'd quote Salman Al Farci well Solomon Salomon al Farci was a Christian right so he could have believed in the Nikian creed he could have believed in the the trinity as most Christians did well all Christians from our perspective would have at that time in I don't believe he was because he he was um he was seeking a prophet okay so so what scripture was he following that allowed him to fulfill the covenant hey I I don't know this is this what I'm saying you're wait you've just given the game away you don't How? There is none. There is none. But what you're saying is that the Quran can condemn Christians and Jews for not honoring their covenant with him when they don't have valid scripture. Are you telling me that Allah is is like a fickle God that punishes Christians and Jews for not doing something when they have no capability of actually doing it? But if they're following the scripture and it leads them to the prophet Muhammad, peace be upon them, then they are following the scripture. But wait, for most for most Christians, it leads them to believe in the trinity. is going to punish them. Hey guys, they didn't have the criteria. We did mention there's no explicit mention of the uh trinity. They believe Jesus is the son of God, that he was crucified, that he we can go through all the different things that from your paradigm. It's not Islamically permissible and will lead you to Jaha. But you're trying to tell me that the Quran is the criteria to judge between these things. But that doesn't work before the Quran is revealed because if the Bible is, you know, corrupt in some parts but not in others, they have no guidance from Allah as to how to determine between those two things, which means that Allah is punishing them for something they have no control over. And Allah is an evil god. No, because I've just demonstrated to you, we have an example of someone that was following uh Christianity. You haven't demonstrated anything. That guy is 250 years old. you you're dismissing. If if you give me one guy, you need to give an account for the like however many million of Christians there's there's thousands of Sahab like who who are they? No, because Muhammad No, no, because Muhammad said if only 10 Jews believed in him, then all of the Jews would believe in him. So not not only not even he couldn't even get 10 Jews to believe in him. So what do you mean thousands? Yeah. Not not even No, I said there thousands of Sahabah. I don't know the We're talking about Jews who believe in the Torah. Muhammad said that if he could only get 10 Jews to believe in him, then all the Jews would believe in him. So these Jews who believe in the Torah, who supposedly, according to you, have all these prophecies that will lead them to Muhammad, not even not only not even 10 of them believed in him. Yeah. Based on the Torah. And the ones that did come like for example Abdaham, he's mentioned in your sources. He's a Jew that came to Muhammad. There's no mention of him saying, "Hey, Muhammad is in the scripture here. Yes, the scripture here helped me come to Muhammad. Yes, there's the verse here and chapter here that help me come. There's Noah evidence. It's all made up stories. It's all made up. No one No one in the One second. No one in the Christians or Jews that came to Muhammad that you said were thousands, which they're not. No, I said there's thousands of Sahaba. I didn't say no one. No one from Christians or Jews who you said who you said followed their scripture and came to Muhammad magically because he's the end of it. None of them said off the top of my mind. None of None of them. None of them. Not zero. None of them said this verse in our book led led us to you. So where did they get a sign from? They came to Muhammad because that's what we're telling you. This is made up. It doesn't exist. Or they came for that's your that's your or they came for other reasons like they were afraid of him conquering and killing everyone and asking for Jiza. That's why they came. And what do you think of Masoud? Why did he why did he keep reference? Yeah. Do you think that he was he not was he not knowledgeable in his uh book? Which book? What book do you think he was? Christian or Jew? Jew. He wasn't. You saying was a Jew? Sorry. Sorry. I'm getting the names mixed up. It's okay. It's okay. Who Who take that take that back with you? Muslims come after you. No, no. You might be thinking of someone else. It's okay. But yeah. Yeah. Is it Is it Is it about Let me get Let me get the name. Yeah, it's about that time. It's about that time. Yeah. I was waiting. No, guys. Come on, guys. I'm next. Let me just get the name. Let me get the name up and then we'll discuss. You get the name. Yeah. Tell us in the comments. Write a comment afterwards. I was wondering what's in this whole thing is about. All right. Take care, man. Take care, man.

We got Anas on the stage. Anas, is that you? Anas. Hello. Hello. Yeah. Uh, what you doing here, man? Oh, I'm here to discuss the topic with you guys. Yeah. Yeah, man. Wait, what? But I thought it was haram to talk to me. Sorry. I thought it was haram to talk to me. Yeah, under most circumstances. Oh, so what circumstances is it haram to talk to me? Yeah, when there's no need for me to for anyone to talk to you. Can we get to the discussion? What does that mean exactly? Yeah. I need to make sure you're not doing anything against the law cuz I I don't want to. No, don't worry. You want to get to the discussion or no? Well, I don't want to get you in trouble because you were just on sister. Don't worry. I'm okay. You said drop you said drop logic. Drop them. You know why the No, no, no. You don't have to worry about it. It's okay. You're okay. So, so you're not doing anything haram right now? No, that's not of any of your concern anyway. So, but it is my concern because you were you were on Sister Alley Cat's live begging her to drop me and not to talk to me, saying it's haram to talk to me. She's an ignoramus and but now but now you're here talking to me and it's not haram for you to do. H it's not haram for you. She was begging somebody else to drop me instead of you. So why didn't you engage with me? Why didn't you engage with me on that panel? Why didn't you engage with me instead of her? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because she would first Sorry, sir. This has nothing to do with the conversation. It has everything to do cuz I can't have a hypocrite. Are we going to get to the conversation? If it's haram to If it's haram to talk to me and you trash a sister to talk to me circumstanc's live stream begging her to drop me, calling me a dog. Drop dog logic. Drop dog logic. It's haram. It's haram. But then you show up on my live stream to talk. That's a little weird. Yeah. So, you want to get to the discussion or no? Yeah. Yeah. All right. So, what what point do you want to All right. So, Oh, something happened. Oh, dang. I lost him. I I don't I think it's haram for you to talk to him. It's haram, right? Yeah. Allah stepped in. Allah must have stepped in. Allah has spoken. He said he will not allow a hypocrite in his midst or representing him. And therefore, he's too little anyway. Yeah, it it's really crazy to me, man. And he's one of their dawa guys on TikTok. The man I was talking to I was talking to a Muslim sister. She was a Muslim a few weeks ago. And by the way, she's one of the sisters that converted a few days ago. She came to Christianity and converted um and announced her her love and inviting the Holy Spirit back into her heart. And so, but she I was on her live talking with her. He popped up on the stream and he begged her to stop talking to me. Drop me. It's haram for her to be talking to me. It's haram for any of the Muslims to be talking with me. Drop dog logic. Drop this dog. yada yada yada. It's haram. It's haram. It's haram. So, I would not expect him to come on our panel, right? He wouldn't come here because he's a consistent Islamic Islamically astute young man, right? He's consistent with his religion. So, so yeah, we you basically have another dilemma here, right? It's it's either haram or it's not haram. It's either haram to be talking to you or or it's not. If it is if it's haram, then he shouldn't be talking to you and he shouldn't come around here and you should ban him to keep him consistent. Or if it's not haram, then he was lying in order to keep someone from talking to you because he knows that his religion can't stand up to scrutiny. So, another another dilemma. Exactly. We call that the Islamic apex dilemma. I just wanted to get that every I wanted everybody to see that and show that. You guys can go ahead and clip that and spread that or do whatever you want on Tik Tok. Just show his hypocrisy. Sandra is a queen of that. Show his hypocrisy. Saying it's haram, but then showing up on the stage like a fanboy. Insane. Powerful stuff. Powerful. Powerful.

All right. Uh let's do one more and then we'll call it a day. Uh let's go with comra. Whoops. Hold on. Let me make sure. There we go. Kaman, how you doing? Hey, how are you, man? Pretty good. Pretty good. You a Muslim? Uh, oh that is a that is a much more difficult answer, you know. Uh, I was this Ramadan. I'm not sure about now. Uh, I don't think so anymore. What happened? Well, I don't know if this is, you know, the I don't want to waste anyone's time. I've been asking just for one minute because I want to I want to get to know Christianity better. I want to make sure I understand it right. You know, it's been a wild ride for the past month. So, I've been like praying five times a day, fasting and everything. And when I when I went for sjude, you know, I I was just uh like praying for God to show me the way. And then I just got flooded with with Christian content out of everywhere. I'm like I keep disliking it. I keep like I'm not interested to signal you know stuff for to signal the algorithm I'm not interested yet it kept on coming and then and then some signs with it and some you know it just it's all been a weird journey. I don't want to waste anyone's time like if we can talk in private that would be nice. I just wanted to you know ask if we can arrange that somehow. That's awesome man then. Yeah, I'm sure. I'm sure you could set something up with God Logic. Uh, you want to talk to him or talk to us? No problem. Oh, I would love to. I would love to. Uh, you're muted. Uh, hello. Yeah, you're okay. But logic is Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so my my my email is is in the description box of this video. So, if you want to email me, email me and remind me who you who you are. Um, right. And we could set up like a little private just one-on-one conversation. Yeah. Outside. Yeah, that's all I wanted. I've been I've been sitting here. It's like um 5:30 a.m. I've been sitting for 4 hours just, you know, I'm just trying to talk to somebody, you know. For sure. Yeah. Yeah. Just email me and we'll we'll connect. Okay. And then we'll That's about it. We'll talk for sure. Thanks, man. Take care. All right. God bless you, bro. Me, too. That's a great one to end on. Ramadan apostasy is a real thing. Yeah, it's true. It's true. It's real thing. We talk about that a lot. A lot of Muslims leave Islam during Ramadan. That's wild. Isn't that the most spiritual and most heightened Islamic, you know? Yeah. But, you know, the Lord fights during that time, too. His angels fight for Amen. That's crazy.

You know, it's wild because it's um, when Ramadan ends, um, the gates of heaven, hell are opened, and demons are and devils are let out and loosed, and they celebrate that, you know, they celebrate on that day. It's amazing. And they go uh, and they go, "Look, look at all that beautiful snow up on that mountain. Let's go cause an avalanche." Oh, man. That's too good.

All right, guys. We are at, where man, four hours in. I think we did good. I think that we perfectly solidified that there is not a single verse, not a single reference, not a hint at the scriptures being textually corrupted in all of chapter 2. Now, how many verses again, guys, are in chapter 2? About how many verses? 286. 286 verses. And not one says that the previous scriptures have been corrupted.

And let let's even let be something maybe a little easier. Show us where it says that the Quran is confirming only part of the scripture, not one verse, but instead we have explicit verse, explicit verses over and over again saying that the previous scriptures are true. It's in the possession of the Jews and Christians. They have it. It's preserved. It's true. It's um um authoritative. And you can't pick and choose what you believe. You have to believe in all of it or else you's going to hell.

So, I think that this was a pretty successful stream. What do you guys say? Beautiful. Oh, yeah. We had so many verses uh prepared, but we only used like three or four. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Oh, yeah. Use all of them. Yeah, we could do you could we could do multiple shows just on surah 2, just carefully going through and uh, Chris has Chris has um uh full video where he goes through uh almost at least almost all of the verses, but he has them all on the screen. Um, giant doc over on um over on Rumble, they've gone through surah 2. Uh, I'm about to I'm still or I'm still organizing mine, and I have a uh I basically have a uh a full response to surah 2 verse 79 pointing out uh about 20 problems with the with trying to interpret it as affirming the corruption of the previous scriptures.

But for everyone who's watching who uh two things, one you could either you could either look through you could either go through surah 2, read it all, or um the other possibility I'll just give you the references right now to look up everything the everything that surah 2 says on this: go to verses uh 2-4, 44, 53, 59, 63-64, 75-79, 84-85, 87, 89-91, 193, 97, 101, 113, 121, 136, 140, 144-145, 146, 159, 176-177, 211, 213, 285. Look at those and tell us with a straight face that the Quran is saying that the previous scriptures were corrupted, and uh I I'll be very impressed by that.

Guys, I just wanted to point out to everyone who's watching, notice four hours, over four hours we're sitting here. We say that Surah 2 affirms the inspiration, the preservation, and the authority of the previous scriptures. If we're wrong, by all means, show us. All you have to do is say, "Here's the verse. Here's the verse. Verse such and such is the one that shows that the Quran is actually claiming that the previous scriptures have been corrupted." But you have to actually show that what you're saying about the verse is correct. That the verse is really saying that. Four hours we couldn't get it. And then I mean we even let Muslims go outside of surahu because surahu did not help them. And even outside of the Quran that didn't help them. Like we're sitting here wondering what does it take for Muslims to get the message here that the Quran affirms the previous scriptures. Like like we we're just going to have to get to the point.

Hey, and hey this is actually funny. This could be the idea behind uh so many pe different people learning the Islamic dilemma material and actually going through the Quran and finding it all and so on. And guys, we're going to have more videos for everyone. We're going to this will be exhaustive. We will tell you every single thing the Quran says about the previous scriptures. All you have to do is learn it. But just imagine, we'll get to a point where we've got like 30 of us all going live at different times during the day so that there is someone all day, every day going through what the Quran says about the Bible and inviting Muslims to respond to us. We we eventually need to get a point get to a point like that because they just seem they don't seem to get the point. No matter how many times we show them, they don't seem to get the point. Yeah. We'll just have to get to a point.

All right, God Logic, you're you're on it this time. Chris, you're going to be on at this time. Giant doc, you'll be on it this time. I'll be on it this time. And someone 24 hours a day, 365 days a year is showing what the Quran says about the previous scriptures. So that there's no excuse for any Muslim to ever be without a response. Uh, but guys, that's again, once again, those of you who are watching, if you're a Muslim, you should be sitting here wondering why don't why doesn't Dao work on this issue? Why doesn't it work? My Da guy says, "Oh, so just go to verse 79 of Surah. This is the reputation. What happens when we actually read it? Doesn't work, right? Oh, but verse chapter 3 verse 78 doesn't work. Read the verse. But chapter 5, verse 48, yeah, go to it. Doesn't actually work. None of this works. None of the responses work. Muslims, you should be picking up on this. You can get this. I don't care how much they brainwashed you over the years. You can get this. You can get You can get this. God has given you the ability to get this.

So, that's you. And those of you who are non-Muslims, what does it take for you to realize this is a really, really good argument to be learning and that you should be at least getting the basics. At least getting down um 547, 566, 7157, chapter 3:es 3 to 4. At least get down the basics because guess what? This is airtight. You've seen it. There's no response. Yep.

So everybody, we're doing this not just for the fun of it, even though it is fun, but we're doing this for the education of you guys. We want you guys to take this and be motivated to, you know, take notes, look at these verses yourself, take notes, learn these arguments. As you see, they are airtight. It is irrefutable. There's no way out of this. No matter what angle you go with, there's too many ways that we can that we could just have fun with this. It's too many.

So, I hope that this is this encouraged you guys, man. Uh, make sure you guys check out the videos that Chris and uh, David Wood and um, Giant DLC did. John DLC on Rumble. Check out their check out their stuff, man. They list they give you the verses, they list out the arguments, and then you get to come here and see them uh, performed live in action and see how it is, right?

So, with that being said, I want to thank everybody for the super chat. I'm sorry I wasn't able to get to everyone. It is kind of tough when you're in the middle of um you know, debating folks and talking to folks. We can't show everything on the screen. But I I want to say I appreciate everybody for giving and your generosity. Shout out to you guys. Make sure you guys subscribe to Chris at Speakers Corner. Subscribe to Apologetics Road Show. Their links are in the description of this video. And uh Giant DLC on Rumble, their link is in the description as well. And um just one last thing guys, Chris and David and Jai, what is our favorite question to ask? What's the in jail? What's the in jail? That's right. In jail. [Music] Oh my god. Logic. [Music]