Transcription
All right, I think we're live. I'm just going to check that we are streaming on X. I believe we are. Yes, we are. Hey everyone, happy well end of year. It's been an interesting 2025. Lots of great things happened and of course we're always aware of how the market goes in crypto, but more importantly, I think it was a great year for builders. Builders, um, on SUI specifically as well. I think we're able to see some really cool stuff on platform this year. But I thought we thought actually it would be a great idea at the end of the year to bring a couple of founders on the call to talk about what we've been working on this year and also, you know, we also have Alan here who can talk in a lot more detail on what we've been doing on the deep book, the deep side, and so on, so forth. So before we jump straight in, why don't we just start with info? Let's assume nobody knows who you are, for example. Um, Costas, you want to go first? Who the hell are you?
>> Nobody knows who I am and you will never learn. [laughter] Anyway, I'm Costas. Um, I'm leading the cryptography team at Mist Labs and I was one of the obvious, uh, like, um, creators of the cryptographic libraries that we're using here in the past at Facebook. But I also spent some time on WhatsApp. So, end-to-end encryption, something that we're going to discuss as well here about privacy, and you will see who I am later on.
>> Actually, let him go last. [laughter] Okay, go next. I'm Aslan. I lead Deepbook. Uh, I lead a lot of our DeFi initiatives at Miston Labs. I'm an engineer at heart. Um, in the past, I've done a lot of, uh, systematic trading type of activities. So I'm a big markets guy as well. Um, I love markets, I love trading, and I love DeFi. And, uh, would love to chat about how we're going to make DeFi better in 2026.
>> Super dope. I'll go next and then we'll have Evan on. I'm Adini. I'm one of the co-founders of Miston. I co-founded a company with Sam, George, Evan, Costas. Uh, we found each other at Facebook working on Libra and had a crazy idea to go build a company together to solve the internet's challenges and, uh, it's been a great ride. I can talk on the product side of things that we're doing and community side of things we're doing, but have these wonderful people on platform to talk about some of the other, um, things we do too. Without further ado, Evan, who the hell are you?
>> Uh, well, I'm Evan. I'm the co-founder, CEO, and CEO of Miss Labs. Uh, what's there to say about me? I've done a few things in my career. Uh, probably what I'm known for is I seek out the hard problems and try to build teams to tackle them. And that's what I did here. So, you can blame three on me. [laughter]
>> Awesome. All right. Well, let's jump straight into it. There's some high-level stuff I I do want to talk about, like I wrote a couple of notes that I want to read this off, right? So because I think there's a lot that happens in this ecosystem that it can pretty much get lost in the, you know, in announcements upon announcements. It's just the velocity of the market as a whole, um, market sentiment. But ultimately, remember we launched in 2023 and since that time frame, you've seen skyrocket in terms of growth of developers, growth of ecosystem, um, just overall, um, maturity as an ecosystem in a very short space of time. And in that time, like in in little over a year, um, leading financial institutions including Canary Capital, Grayscale, Franklin Templeton, Van Eck, and Financial, 21 Shares, Robin Hood, they've all launched investment, um, products or initiatives on SUI. And that range from tokenized funds to exchange traded notes. Even in 2025, we saw sub-second finality when we launched free. We're at 1.5 seconds end-to-end finality for shared objects. And, you know, um, basic peer-to-peer is about 500 milliseconds. Now today, we are down to 0.4 seconds end-to-end finality for even shared state. So fees are just 0.002, 0.002 cents. That is roughly 1,150% cheaper than Solana and 50,000% cheaper than Ethereum. That's insane. In a very short space of time, we can do transactions way cheaper, way faster than anybody else in the crypto space. We hit a peak of 54 million transactions in a single day with 2.5 million daily active wallets at one point. And we, you know, we saw things like TVL going past $2 billion, making Sui essentially the eighth largest chain by DEX volume. Exceeded over 12.8 billion in over 30 days, ranking about sixth. So beyond just the upgrades you've seen, you've also seen like game-changing technologies such as Seal joining the stack for Mississippi version two for improved developer experience. We've seen Walrus launch as well for storage. We've, we've seen of course the, um, NUS as an off-chain computation platform to, to do, um, you know, um, trusted execution as well. There's been a lot of amazing things that have happened in SUI. So if I had to like summarize, right? Like adoption is is up on the ecosystem. Flash's eco-login drew a lot of that, right? So the fact they can jump in the system, not have to worry about using pass, um, worry about set up private keys and things like that. Um, it's also had its way in gaming where games can onboard on Sui without having to worry about passwords. We've just built infrastructure that just works. And overall, um, Costas and the team, and I want to probably drag Costas in a moment, right, and talk about what he's been doing this year. They've been working on robotic use cases, prototyping, programmability of access to assets, right? Like if you own a robot, you have a drone, been able to lend that out to people, all the amazing cryptography and the tunnel technology that goes on with that as well. I, I'm probably not as educated or anywhere close to give it to as much credit as it deserves. Costas, maybe why don't you touch on what you've been working on this year?
>> Amazing. So obviously, uh, as you can understand, cryptography and AI are very close because you have to do with mathematics, right? And as you can see, a significant number of people, especially on Mist Labs, but also the community, is coming either from Silicon Valley, which means that they've worked in Google, Facebook, and all of these, and they have seen what's happening in the AI spectrum. And at the same time, we couldn't, like, allow the web 3 only to be like one particular sector. He has DeFi, probably one of the flagships, um, of all of the industry. But at the same time, there were a few advantages on how we constructed, um, uh, the whole idea of of SUI as a, as a platform that has execution, the storage, uh, you know, identity, also a very healthy DeFi, um, and the most important stuff was object-oriented programming. We happened to be in one of the best conferences in the world for robotics, and there we had, um, a presentation about what you can do on the blockchain. I was super surprised the number of people finishing technical universities in the world, and they are now focusing into robotics is so, um, uh, like, so higher in in absolute numbers compared to the web3 users that we said, guys, object-oriented is exactly what you're doing in your job today. You can actually use the blockchain to either sell your models, to create new models, to allow people to do the same thing as Amazon Turk, and so on. So the blockchain is indeed a new marketplace for people who are working on robotics. And then, um, the first question that arose is, come on guys, the blockchain is slow. And then at the same time, we we saw them, like, literally with with boots on the ground, no, it's not. Actually, you can do faster transactions than Visa and Mastercard. And then they realized, wow, if this is possible, and you can also somehow find ways with cool cryptography to drive the robots, to give orders to robots without necessarily having like more than one second. The options were like three or four chains, there were not so many, right? And then at the same time, when they see a team with a technical AI and mathematical background, then we said, look guys, um, SUI is at the moment in the best position to offer, uh, the gate, in my opinion, I call it the robotic gate from web 3 to the robotic sections. And then we had to invest on lightning tunnels. What if you want zero latency? Then you are going to see on 2026 some of the best, like, investments on cryptography, how you can do literally zero, uh, RT transactions with the lightning tunnel, better, better than the lightning network on Bitcoin, but for everything, robotics, micro CPUs, I mean, okay, all of these people, how they're going to do this stuff? Object-oriented mechanism is by far the, the best option at the moment compared to the account-based systems to have whatever you're doing in, like, the microprogramming people are doing C++ and Java. It's by far more natural. And I've seen it with the hackathons, and because of this and this internetless communication channels and all of this, I believe we had the chance on robotics to to do something better than everybody else. And we tested a few things even in the Himalayas, as you can see some of my posts, uh, the last month. It is possible to change the whole internet robotics. You can see it as one of the applications on how this is possible. Imagine commodities, drones, robotics, all of them being able to talk for a transparent system for tracking, as as proof of solvency, as oracles for all of the assets in the world. And in my opinion, because RWAs are coming, don't underestimate why robotics are super important here because they need to give signals to the blockchains. And at the moment, we didn't have such a mechanism before. And this is where I believe some some of the people will be excited and you will see many, many folks on technical units for the first time in their life to enter the web three world. And this is, this is exactly what I'm advocating. You will see me traveling, doing robots, my team also doing cryptography, AI, and robots, and all of this stuff coming onto the blockchain.
>> That's exciting. I mean, it's amazing how we touched, we touched on a stack, right? Being this amazing site that lets you build these cool amazing interactions between applications, users, robots, agents, you name it. And we're seeing it come to life in our very face. And before jumping into DeFi, I actually want to probe Evan. Evan, like you're the visionary, right? Like you, you had in your mind this idea of a stack. I remembered when we were talking about the company at the beginning, you, we, we had this amazing deck. I say amazing with [laughter] many pieces. Do you want to talk about your mindset in, in terms of what you were thinking or what we're thinking back then?
>> I mean, my job is to identify where the pie is going to, right? Not where it already is. Uh, and to steer the team towards building that into reality. And how do you do that in a very, very sort of noisy environment that we experienced in 2025, right? And it's tough. Uh, so you have to basically continue to move forward, progress, and and ignore the, ignore the noise. That's a lot of what we have done. You may not have seen it yet, but this is where we're going. Why is the stack? Why is the internet needs to change? Well, it's simple. Everything has to be automated. Uh, and the reason why everything is automated is because, well, the number of people online is going to multiply at a rate we have never seen before in the history of mankind. It's not going to be on population. The number of people getting online is going to be machines. It's going to be agents. It's going to be robots. It's going to be everything using the internet. You already see that, right? Perhaps you're not really exposed to it. Everything your refrigerator is attached to the internet. Uh, your your toaster is attached to the internet. People complaining about you can't use something when it's in the process of being upgraded, right? Or something's, you know, now you have the funny situation where Cloudflare goes down. It's not just that you cannot browse and or shop online. You may have like stuff stop working, physical things stop working. [snorts] Um, and this is why we are essentially building that layer on top of the internet to allow all that to happen. Uh, and you start from where everybody's paying attention to, while commerce is always the first thing that people trying to figure out. This is what we're seeing with the internet going from 1.0 to 2.0. Why PayPal is still seen as such, even though if you look back now, the PayPal product at the time was a very simple product, it changed the internet, right? Because it brought commerce onto the internet. So this is essentially what we're doing, where we are repeating that process. How do we enable the internet change to this new world where everything is going to has to be automated, has to be automated in a way you have can verify the right things are happening? And this is why we talk about we are the, the three stack is the sort of verifiable control layer for for AI and I want to generalize to anything that requires automation, essentially. And you then realize the opportunity is much, much bigger. Just like back in the days when people thinking about the internet is great, [clears throat] for buying books online, Amazon, and fast forward, you know, 10, 20 years later, it's completely changed the landscape. And we're about to go through that again, right? So, uh, this is why no prediction is ever going to be right. Uh, because it's too hard to simulate how where the new innovations are going to come from, what what changes in the consumer behavior. But we're building the fundamentals. We're building the stack while everybody's building essentially a ledger. We're building a stack to automate everything and to prepare the world for this explosion. Uh, you know, the rate of change going faster, even again, right? It's hard to wrap your head around it. It's like the rate of change is like that's going to change again, that's that self itself is going to accelerate. Uh, and we're, we're in the right position, right? And this is, this is what we are about.
>> Yeah, I mean, to that, to that Evan, right? Like we, we started with layer, then we built on top of that. We built ZK Login, we built, you know, Seal, we built Notless, we built Walrus. We're really just constructing this layer into into what it is today. And you hear in 2026 more about the SUI stack. Like you probably hear less about the various components that make up this the stack. And we've talking more about as a as a function of what SUI stack does in the future, including what Costas is working on, robotics, right? One of the things that that is very exciting about crypto is actually the financialization aspect. The fact that you can have programmable finance and you can, you know, effectively have two financial applications that can interact with each other that, you know, the designers never probably thought in their mind would have any form of interaction. And the fact that you can even build commerce on top of that. So, Alan, why does DeFi matter? What excites you about DeFi and what have you been working on?
>> Oh, boy. Um, uh, you know, my favorite thing about DeFi is what you just mentioned, Denny, the composability aspect of it. And this is something that we really haven't, um, you know, truly taken advantage of in DeFi generally speaking, advantage of the blockchain, uh, nature, right? It is naturally very composable. And, you know, Deepbook fits right in here because, uh, it's fully on-chain. Uh, we have integrations coming in from the aggregators. There's flow coming in from aggregators, the liquidations, like if a lending protocol needs to liquidate a position, they can, uh, route their flow through Deep, um, and, you know, regular users also trade through Deepbook. And now with the kind of addition of margin, we kind of really take advantage of this composability story and make it so there is just a wide diversity of, uh, liquidity flowing through Deepbook specifically. Now, for for broader, uh, DeFi, right? Um, one of, one of my goals, uh, for 2026, you know, we have done a, a very good job on the institutional side. Uh, you mentioned, Denny, a lot of the kind of, uh, deals that we've made, the partnerships that we had on the institutional side of finance. But one thing I really want to, uh, uh, be able to do more of for next year is going to be on the retail side.
>> Yeah.
>> One, you know, make it so there's a lot of different things that you can do on Sui DeFi. A lot of different experiences. It's not just, you know, uh, LPing and and farming incentives, but it's also, you know, trading on perps, trading on margin, or even maybe trading some exotic derivatives that don't really, uh, yet exist, uh, in in DeFi, but, you know, maybe they're coming. Um, so, uh, enable more interesting experiences for retail users. And then also make it easier for teams to build apps and deploy on Sui DeFi. Uh, and and just reduce that barrier to entry. Okay. If we make it so, you know, it's 10 times faster and 10 times cheaper for you to deploy the same app on Sui compared to anyone anywhere else, then we just increase the surface area for, you know, new interesting developments to to happen on Sui and new kind of interesting innovation to originate on Sui. Uh, so make it easier for builders, uh, make it more fun for retail, and, uh, make it, make sure that we have all of the different, you know, uh, financial primitives ready, accessible, in place, for for everybody, uh, for for all the builders and the kind of experiences available for the retail users. So it is going to be a little bit, uh, uh, focused on on the retail side of things for next year. Uh, we got tons planned. I'm not going to, uh, you know, uh, go too much into detail, but that is kind of the direction that I'm, you know, uh, super excited about going into.
>> You, you touched on one thing, right? Like making it easy for builders to to build on Sui really quickly. You, you did some really cool stuff in Debug recently where folks can pretty much build frontends for Debug without having to learn smart contract coding, right? Do you want to touch a little bit on that? Because I think it's quite important to highlight.
>> Yes. Yes. Um, you know, generally speaking, I think one of our strongest advantages for Sui is our DevX. We have heard it time and time again that builders when they try Sui, they quickly realize, wow, this is like way easier than Solidity, than than developing on Solana. Um, it's way cleaner, not it's not messy, it's super easy to deploy and everything. But what we have done is we have gone a step further. Right now, we have projects that are coming live with the module launch, and these these protocols haven't even written any Move code. Okay? We have made Deepbook so, uh, you know, so composable and so easy to integrate that we have like the front ends that are building directly on top of our out-of-the-box code with no need to like, you know, uh, implement their own Move smart contracts. And we have enabled various kind of, actually two different referral types. So like if you are building on top of Deepbook and you have some way to get retail users to, you know, interact with Deepbook, then you get rewarded directly programmatically. And there's a guarantee on the smart contract level that you are going to earn revenue. It's going to, and and that's the whole idea, like make it super easy for you to build your app on Deepbook. Uh, and the programmable revenue is right there, ready for you to take advantage of it. And, you know, um, one of my favorite things to do actually is I love talking to the community. I love builders that are ambitious about, uh, building things. If you are a builder that wants to build DeFi apps and and are interested in the space, like, you know, hit me up. I love talking talking to them. And and that's what we did with with two of the apps that are actually launching with margin. It was, uh, you know, we had a couple chats and we love like, and we love kind of, you know, working directly with the builders, uh, together as well. So, um, that is kind of, you know, how how I see, you know, things growing for Deepbook and the kind of, uh, DeFi ecosystem in the near future. Thanks, Alan. So look, in in 2025, we saw sustained ecosystem growth and it was driven by how developers are using ZK Login, ZK Send, as we used to call it, in really creative ways to onboard users. Really seamless onboarding into wallets for games, social labs, reaching millions through partners such as SuiBall and Bucket. Um, also SuiBall, in effectively sold about 2.5,000 units instantly on the day. And we've got, of course, a Sui Play device has sold 10,000 units. So there's a lot that's happening positively on the consumer side. Um, SuiBall, as those who may not know, is a native Sui wallet. It's actually really cool. OLED screen, Apple quality like finish, that allows you to do non-blind signing. You can actually see what you're what you're proving very well, deeply integrated into Sui. And I can't wait to to get my hands on the production version. Luckily, I've got a test version I've been running, but I can't wait to get my hands on a production version. Um, let's talk about some challenges, right? Because it's great to sit here and talk about all great things happening on Sui, right? But like, what are the challenges, think that we have seen or we've seen in 2025 that you hope we can get solved in 2026 or onwards? Evan, probably a question for you first.
>> Yeah, I think you, you know, as, uh, sort of leaked this a little bit, right? Uh, you know, recently there's this sort of this article I think by Figment Capital. It's all crypto is dead. Everybody's talking about it. It's a great article. You should all read it. But there's a fundamental thesis I do not agree with that. Right? They're basically talking about the importance of application layer. But it's as if thinking in terms of application as a sort of product by itself, where the way we should really think about, and I mean, let me take a step back. What we talk about is the sort of DGM product, the product for consumer, is that which I completely disagree with. And I think it's changing. Why does why do users love to interact with the blockchain directly? It's not really interacting with the blockchain. They like to see the asset they're holding being used productively. That's the ultimately sort of the click, right? Once you switch it on, you see I am holding my asset. All these tokens, they're being put into DeFi, they're being used in this game or this way, and they're gaining yields. They're being used in this kind of unique ways and new ways. It's very addictive. And I think this is consumer behaviors are going to continue to change. What the industry hasn't done well is to build more of these kind of products. Uh, that's sort of a, you know, sort of on-chain product, but that's not difficult to use, right? And we, we'll kind of deal with that's one of the challenges, right? We see a lot of innovation in DeFi, but there's not being a consumer-friendly product for people who are not sort of geeks, right? Uh, we have not seen really, really successful social products or the kind of consumer products. Even gaming efforts is sort of stalling a bit, although we have high hopes on, you know, we're incredibly excited about what the Eve online folks are doing, and that's going to change. And I think on-chain product is not dead at all. Actually, I think it's going to come rolling back and it's going to see innovation that really happens. You know, some examples, Polymarket, right? Prediction market, everybody's talking about it. It's not really the on-chain product right now. It's really, it's using blockchain, it's sort of hiding that from the user. But it's going to be even more, you know, sort of exciting, addictive, and it's going to basically make them even more composable and integrate into the DeFi ecosystem other ways, which will be even more powerful once somebody figured out, right? This is my prediction. This is what I believe, uh, is going to happen next. And also talk to the challenges we face in 2025. It's a very noisy year. There's a lot of interest around institution adoption. There's generally everybody can agree upon sort of the institutions are coming. There's more acceptance in the mainstream about blockchain technology about crypto. Yet, we haven't seen these kind of products that benefit consumers really kind of come out and really getting people excited. And so you have this kind of weird dynamic. Uh, so what that causes is that sort of everybody chasing something, but you don't know what you're chasing. Uh, so the narrative keeps on changing. And, you know, one one point in time is this, and the other point in time is that. So, so you have this kind of a disconnect. As a result, what are we going to do about it? That's the most important part, right? As on touch on this important part about products on on blockchain, they should be composable. You can be an end-user product, you can directly interact with it, you can use it as is, but you also also can be used as one component of a much more complex product or complex flow, which perfectly fits in this automate everything we're going into. And that's which where where is exciting. And how do we enable that in 2026? You're going to see us raising the abstraction level, focus more on that layer. But we're not thinking about product as sort of this is the product you ship, you focus on the consumer only. These are the platforms themselves for developers to build. So you can build things on top of Deepbook without worrying about going down to the three level. You can build things on top of these layers, this higher-level abstraction layer, and allow you to build products much more quickly and much more powerfully, and with all the benefit of using the three stack, all the automation, the verifiability, the city, being easy to get onboarding, being a solid. And that is going to blow the whole thing up. Uh, that's what we believe.
>> Thanks, Evan. I'm going to jump to some questions. We, we actually got more discussions to have, but I'll jump to some questions so they don't get lost. Um, Alan, one question, what's your take on market makers being able to run trade simulation strategies against Deepbook's liquidity engine?
>> Um, well, running trading, uh, simulations and strategies is, you know, they probably have a lot smarter ways of doing that than just looking at Deepbook's liquidity. Uh, if you're using Deepbook security or the Deepbook indexer or any data related to Deepbook to like decide how you want to, uh, build a strategy, you're probably, you know, not a market maker, because market makers use way, way, way more data than that. So I wouldn't say that, you know, there's, uh, um, any any problems here. Actually, what I would say is that we actually want to enable this even more for everybody. We want to reduce the barrier of entry to do this kind of systematic trading or like make it easier for even regular retail users to, you know, do market making, uh, in some way, right? Right now, we have Lotus Protocol. They have built a very sophisticated market-making engine that's market-making on Deepbook. And any retail user can deposit capital into their, into their, uh, you know, market maker. So, you know, we, my goal at least for for, uh, our goal for for next year is going to be, you know, make it easier for retail users to do more highly sophisticated kind of trading activity on-chain. And it includes being, you know, able to run simulations or backtest strategies and things like that using Deep data. If this is something, you know, uh, uh, folks are interested in in trying out.
>> Next question, actually, is for Costas. It's less a question but more a request. It's this by Sad Mouse. Need a privacy coin solution on Sui. What are we doing about privacy?
>> Amazing. What is the reason do you believe that you don't find today easy swaps between ZKas Monet and all of the privacy coins? Um, you don't, you don't see also the bugs and everybody accepting them. Do you know what it is? There was no good key management. People will realize that 2025 was pretty much a year where it's a transformation for how we're seeing privacy. You need to solve the key management problem first. Imagine what we faced, um, last this year, actually, with the Bybit hack, with the Safe wallet being hacked, and all of these things. People are using multi-sig, people are using different types of accounts. We have ZK Login, we have passkeys, there are people using different types of schemes. Nobody knows how in the projects where they support smart contracts, how they can do proper key management on privacy coins. And I believe SUI has an advantage here because of the Seal protocol, how we're using Nautilus, even Walrus, and having like data that might be a bit more expensive because it's it's private and so on. So practically, tell you the truth, the whole story was the following. 2025, build all of the primitives that will probably be the flagship for going into the next step, which is the privacy coins. And the privacy coins cannot come just one day as, uh, as we've seen in other cases, where, okay, you can just use the exchange to be able to swap from your private coin to dollars eventually, right? We have to solve the full stack. And when Evan was talking about the full tooling for, uh, for this stuff, I don't believe if you don't have a full stack of all of the operations for the new internet, you can actually have a proper way to have privacy coins. You have to meet regulations. I have to have my dad, my wife, my people like who who are doing some crypto today. But imagine if you give them an extra tool. Oh, you need also to decrypt. Now imagine the complexity here, right? And you have to solve some of the very serious UX problems, even on how to handle now encrypted assets. And encrypted assets are important. Um, when I moved to Dubai last year, we had a a particular problem with one of the exchanges there. Costas, I want to donate money. I just, it's not the donation money that I want to hide, to tell you the truth. I want to hide the fact that some people will see my actual balance just because I'm transferring funds, right? And and here, it's a cultural thing. I cannot show that I'm a millionaire because I'm safe in the region and so on. How do you solve this? And then I told him, say, you have to solve first the key management problem. Not even you know how to do that stuff, right? And you are technical enough. This guy was technical indeed.
>> [snorts]
>> And then we realized, okay, 2025, people might not know, but Seal was not only used to to hide, I don't know, NFTs and all of this stuff. It's preparing the world on how we're going to do key management on decryption. And you need decryption, right? [snorts] So what I have, um, as as a feeling in the whole industry, but I believe SUI will lead the way here before mainnet. If you go and see what was happening on GitHub, SUI has a had a standard about privacy tokens, especially for for confidential balances, and how this can meet the regulation. Like you can also have an audit key where the issuer or some other entities will be able to decrypt in case there is, I don't know, anti-money laundering and all of these things. Because we're going into a more institutional, uh, way of, like, also the industry, the regular web two industry being interested in crypto. And we have to support these people as well to come into, um, like the liquidity of of web 3, right? This is what we're building now. Don't be surprised if you see some hires on cryptographers. We already have a huge team working on zero-knowledge proofs and multi-party computations. You see already some of the projects on on Sui community projects, not Misten projects, like IA and a few others are working on these things. And these things are requiring very heavy machinery on encryption, decryption. This is what we're building now, but we're going to hire even more brains into that to build a full ecosystem that will, uh, have like all of the everything that you need for an exchange, for a DEX, for swapping, for being able to make transactions on stable coins that this will support privacy. And I'm giving you like my personal commitment that the cryptography team is working on this since 2025. But we couldn't move on if we haven't solved first the privacy and the key management thing for how people can interact like the b the not the not the digens necessarily. If we want to allow everybody who is programming into web 3, we need to make it as easy as possible for a 16-year-old or a 60-year-old.
>> Right? This this should be the motto. The only way to do this is you need a team who knows exactly what's requiring on the on the primitives. And there is another stamp in my opinion that Sui has, and you cannot easily find in all of the other fast blockchains. Everything is a white paper on SUI. And at the Nigi, you've seen it many times, right? A lot of people are promising stuff. But technically, what we do is we're taking a solution before we take a huge risk because all of this research on privacy requires a lot of time, right? But you also need the stamp from the reviewers from other cryptographers across the world. The culture of Misten, the culture of Sui, the culture of the community is to publish white papers. We have more than 80 white papers. I don't believe that there is any other ecosystem, maybe Ethereum Foundation at the very beginning, that has so high-quality things that eventually all of them now it is the time on 2026 that we will see them on Deepbook, on on privacy tokens that are coming with an embedded custody service. You give it to the exchanges, you give it to the DEXes, and then only then people will be able to transact with them. What do you do with privacy if you cannot use the money? Right? We have to solve this problem. And I believe we have at the moment the best plan for, uh, for doing this these things in a more, uh, like official and, uh, you know, standardized way.
>> So two bits of alpha I want you to get on this call for folks is in 2026, we will ship private transactions in Slush. Secondly, we'll make it free to send stablecoin transfers in Sui. So we want to be the best place for you to transfer money. We actually don't believe you can get broad, um, stroke consumer adoption of of use of use of money without an element of privacy, right? Like not everybody who thinks their bank account should be Twitter. And privacy by default, something that every consumer should have. So in 2006, you see free transfers for stablecoins. Secondly, you're going to see private transactions enabled in Slush wallet. And as usual, in the way we do things, these will be a protocol-level implementation, meaning every wallet can implement an element of privacy. It's not something reserved just as Slush, and others can build on top of it as well. So yeah, those are two huge improvements that we're going to see on the network. And I think ultimately, we want to be the chain where you do you manage your money. You will be the chain where you coordinate your payments. Of course, we mentioned Eco a lot. Eco is going to allow you to coordinate assets across multiple chains. Will be the chain by which you can transfer any asset you want across the internet as cheaply, and in most cases free, if you're talking about stablecoins as well. Jumping on from there, you know, 2026, the core team focus is really the Sui stack. And we call it S2, right? Not Amazon S3, we have Sui stack as in S2 S's. Um, the goal is really unifying everything into one Sui, one SDK, one site, one doc hub. The primitives we've shipped since the, um, beginning of the company till now are there. And now it's bringing it all together into a very easy-to-use developer hub for developers to start building these amazing applications. Sui is truly unparalleled in what it offers from a developer standpoint. The composability you get with objects on Sui is something you just cannot do anywhere else. And we really can't wait for 2026 to start to see the new apps that get to build on build on platform, but really taking advantage of all these amazing functionality that Sui, uh, makes possible. So actually, if I have to ask the question, right? Like Evan, in 2026, what are you looking forward to?
>> Products, uh, product-level protocols, right? I mean, this is what I talk about. This is why, you know, if you, if you understand how, you know, big companies work, right? You'll understand Google, Meta, and all these companies. They build such a complex backend, but there is actually a separation between things that's so sort of like core protocol level or core infrastructure level, and there's a product infrastructure level where things gets built on top of those, right? How do you quickly build innovative products? And how do we accelerate that? That's sort of again, the rate of change is the most important part. The questions in the chat are pre-telling, how do we integrate three stack into web two products? Right? People were asking you to think about blockchain for coordination, for smart contracts, for policy. Think about Walrus for storage. Think about, you know, Seal for, you know, for confidentiality and all that. It's overwhelming. But if you have primitives there, sort of more like, okay, so this is a specific problem for us, and then people, you're going to see adoption just kind of celebrate from that. So these are going to be sort of product-level primitives and products that we build that look like a product you can use as a product, but things you can build on top of it. You're just going to see more, more of these, and it's just going to make everything accelerate. Uh, and that's the most exciting part for for me, because I want to see that happen. I want to see these questions go away, right? People starting using that layer and to make things happen at a rate that we'll never, we have not seen in web three ever.
>> One, one question is asked by Matle, right? Can we get web 2 API fetching within a Move VM? The possibilities are imaginable. Colossus, am I right in saying you could pretty much do that with Nautilus today on Sui?
>> Nautilus is one thing because technically you can get any web 2 request and verify it on the blockchain, right? We are using trusted execution environments to ensure that, for example, you have a session with Twitter. You have a session. By the way, I mentioned Twitter now, and this is an alpha, and then you know what I'm working on now, right? A few things to connect wallets, addresses, and a lot of stuff with social networks, right? There are a few things you can do. It's you need cryptography for this stuff. We already have Nautilus. There is zero-knowledge proofs, and all of this stuff is required. At the same time, don't forget that Adini in the past mentioned a lot of things about cryptogard and a few other things because web 2 has its own vulnerabilities, as we see, right? How do we solve this? We're going to have, um, binary transparency tools, and what Walrus is helping here, and this is the importance of having a full stack thing, otherwise it will not work. You can, technically, it doesn't help you with a four-digit at the beginning and, and the end. So Walrus is very important on that aspect, and we're trying to utilize it to make the tools by far easier for the user. Imagine you have like very basic extensions or even the web pages taking an extra stamp. This website is secure now, you can connect it to web 3, and this problem is not easy. You need some of the biggest brains to work around this, and you also need the tools. If you don't have a Walrus, you don't have Seal, you don't have zero-knowledge proofs, you simply cannot do it. And sometimes when you realize that, okay, why do you need all of these folks to work together, and you don't give it to 100 different startups? Because guys, it will not work. All of this has to work like a Swiss Swiss watch. That's the reality. You cannot just have one of the systems being like slow or misbehaving, and so on. You need to have someone who has an overall view of all of the tools, especially with the cryptography involved, which is how many cryptographers do you believe are at the levels where you can have an L1? They're not too many, right? So we said, we're going to focus and help also startups who are going to build on top of this. It's not obviously, it cannot be like 20 people that will solve this problem. We need everybody to help us on this. What we're creating is the foundational infrastructure to connect web 2 and web 3. You need tools, you need brains, and you need also very advanced cryptography for this stuff. That's how you connect it.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. We, we will kind of blur the boundary between web 2 and web 3. Ultimately, we people will stop talking about web 3 or web 2 as a as a past, right? It's just this more automated web, right? I think talk about this, how the internet today is hostile to non-human participants, and that fundamentally doesn't work, right? Because you don't trust non-humans, but they are operating on behalf of humans, right? How do you bridge that the difference, right? So forget about web 2 and web 3. This is what the bigger problem that we're solving.
>> Agreed. Um, putting that question back to Alan, actually. What are you looking forward to in 2026? What am I looking forward to in 2026? Um,
>> I honestly, the, we talked about products a lot, but I'm kind of, I'm going to double down on that one a little bit more. Um, you know, it is going to be the year of of experiences in my opinion. Like, um, and and the thing is, like, it's not just going to be experiences that already exist in in other ecosystems and we just bring it to Sui. I think, you know, that that's like a nice to have. What I'm more interested in is, you know, the things that I'm doing on Robin Hood that I can't do anywhere in DeFi. I want to be able to do that on Sui. You know, I, I want to like direct deposit, you know, like make it so I do like Apple Pay through direct through Slush, like, uh, things like that. Like I want my day-to-day kind of financial life to be powered through, uh, through through Sui. So with that kind of a, you know, uh, vision in mind, that's how I'm kind of thinking about, you know, how do we figure out what do we, you know, uh, what to incentivize in terms of like, what do we want to to be built, right? One of the, for example, one of the things that we noticed this year, a lot of on in DeFi is the rise of prop AMMs and perpetuals exchanges. Those two have been probably the the main killer apps, uh, this year. And there, there's a common theme between both of them. They enable higher capital efficiency than than what was present before them. Prop AMMs are 10 times, 100 times more efficient, capital efficient than AMMs, and they make it so you can get the same type of economic activity with with 10 times less inventory. It's just a better product. Both of them have one thing in common. They rely on oracles or prices. So, you know, one thinking is if we make oracles better and easier to use on Sui and just a lot sharper, then we make it so more DeFi innovation has a chance to be originated on Sui, right? That's kind of how I think about it. So we're kind of setting up these, uh
You know, building blocks to enable for more innovative D5 projects to be built. And then we'll use those building blocks along with the whole composability story, along with, you know, making it easy to build on on Suite to start kind of, uh, prototyping, testing, seeing what works and and kind of, uh, enabling these new experiences and actually attracting, uh, retail users onto the onto the chain.
And, um, so yeah, I think next year is going to be the year of experiences and products and making it so, uh, everyday retail users enjoy being on Suite and enjoy doing things in Suite. Yeah, one of the things the team's already working on, um, Lola, I'm talking about the wallet team and Barer, hopefully don't kill me, is that the ability for you to spend your card straight from a D5 protocol, right? Like you got money held in, you know, Navi, for example, right? And in swiping, you you're not you're not losing, you're not basically left money doing nothing in missing out yield. You can spend directly from, you know, savings that are held in the DeFi protocol in real time. So you can maximize the amount of yield that you have. This is the element of like, how do we make DeFi and the stuff that chains offer, um, better than what you get in banking today, better than what you get in other financial services today. That's where it really starts to matter. And this is where composability is actually key because the fact that nobody decided to build this app from day one, but you can chain these things together without permission or asking someone, you know, to add a particular primitive to make it possible is where I think the design space for finance on Suite is going to be super, super exciting. And again, 2026 will be a lot of amazing things coming to experiences are are going to be the key.
Uh, Kostas, back to you. What are you excited for for 2026 or what are you looking forward for for 2026?
>> As I said before, I'm expecting, uh, because the stablecoins are coming and there is also the privacy stuff. For the first time, we're going to have, um, uh, practical privacy on on the blockchain. I cannot see how this will work. As you know, personally, many of us have lived in in the Bay Area and we've talked with Visa and Mastercard and some of the biggest banks in the world. Eventually, for web 3 to win, we have to have the same guarantees that we have to with today's banking system today. You and probably your other party know who you are and probably about the amount. Nobody else and maybe the bank itself because it's it's a requirement. We're going to to reduce the gap to the absolute minimum and actually because we're faster and now we're by far more transparent in my opinion, will be a better tool. That's how we're going to change the world here with some primitives that people don't even need to know. To tell you the truth, in the future, I'm not sure if it's 2026 or 2027. My personal, uh, because you know, I'm I'm also like a blockchain maxi. I was a Bitcoin maxi, now I'm a Sui maxi. Always my view was whenever I will see in my life [snorts] an app on App Store or Google, uh, store or whatever that someone is in the top category of a particular, like the top app in a particular category. You don't know it, but blockchain was behind it. That would be the amazing thing that for the first time we see that web 3 is pretty much what Oracle was, cloud databases, or all of the things of the world, and you don't need to know it. It happened. We have to hide it and you have to use all of the transparency tools because it wouldn't be possible without the tech. This is in my opinion, the win of web 3. That's how you can do it, right? Someone has to do it and in in my opinion is giving us more options to take bets on particular stories on web 3 that were not followers, but were actually creating the ecosystem. And this is what in my opinion, this is the nature of SUI. SUI is so innovative that many of the startups that we see sometimes when they have to compare between the chains, they have a few more tools to actually use and and innovate. We need to help them though. In me in on my side, you will see like myself working with the devs directly to to guide them through also on what is possible because sometimes something that we were missing for 2025, people didn't know the full, the full caliber of what Sui can do and how the full stack can work together. We have to solve this and that's why you're going to to to to see some of us being with boots on the ground and and and helping people to build the tools that you don't even know there is a blockchain behind it. That's my motto. So this is what I want to achieve.
>> Good. That's awesome. I mean, um, if I had to think about the question I have, um, I'm I'm excited about Deepbook, um, margin, like as you know. So Aslan, in turning my question to make it your problem, and you know, tell me why, how Deep is making DeFi stronger in Suite, right? Like tell me why as an AMM or as a lending protocol, Deep is great and why it solves good problems for them and beyond that, what would margin add to this ecosystem?
>> Um, you know, fundamentally, the there is that if we think about the life cycle of building a protocol, there are the hard parts. And then there are the kind of easier parts. The hard parts are smart contracts, audits, they take time. You got to learn how to how to do it right. Uh, building the actual financial product. The other hard part is the liquidity, actually making it so, you know, people want to put money in there on your protocol. Uh, making it so liquidity is flowing efficiently and things like that. The kind of, uh, you know, the other part, which is also technically can be technically challenging, you know, uh, building the front end and hooking things up and building the infrastructure for like data capturing and all that. But the the other side is challenging, but it is not financially challenging and there's much less risk. So fundamentally, the way that I think about this is, let's make it so we take on the the the harder problems, right? Of getting the smart contracts and the liquidity, build that here because, you know, we have the resources and we can we can, you know, uh, provide that and then make Deepbook a, uh, you know, the a public good. Make it so if you are building something on Deepbook and you're tapping into the liquidity and the infra infrastructure that we built out, you get revenue and Deepbook is just a public good and is here to like serve the entire, uh, Sui DeFi ecosystem. I kind of see this, you know, for builders, right? If they're thinking, you know, should I build my DeFi protocol on SUI, on Base, on Solana, or where, right? And they look for a bunch of different reasons why why they should build on on which L1. And the whole idea with Deepbook is, listen, you can build it on SUI. Uh, you get everything that these other chains have, and on top of that, you get this open infrastructure with liquidity that you can access whenever you need to, uh, however you want to. And we got some cool, uh, projects that are using Deepbook core, right? Then soon, Book Margin. And the way that margin itself is designed is actually designed very, uh, in a very interesting way. We got this one, uh, protocol, I'm not going to, uh, share too much alpha yet, but they're building a, uh, an oracle-based market maker that actually deposits stale or or unutilized capital in the AMM into the margin pools to earn extra yield on top of the kind of, uh, you know, trading fees that the AMM itself is generating. So we made margin super composable where anybody can, uh, dep, uh, you know, deploy capital into margin pools and earn yield. Um, in the future, these margin pools are actually going to become much bigger than what they are now. Right now, they're only go serving, uh, margin trading, which is just active, you know, leverage trading. But in the future, they're going to be serving other new products that we develop on Deepbook in within the Deep kind of infrastructure, and they're going to get even more yield accu accruing into these pools. So these pools, we do want them to become very large and and, uh, you know, very flexible. They're going to be powering a lot of different components on Deepbook and and the broader Sui ecosystem.
>> Awesome. Awesome. All right, in closing this out, I I I would answer more questions, but I also want to, uh, give all have an opportunity to give people a closeout. But someone asked me, Aden, can you tell us more about Hashi and Cryptogard? So, I'll go very, very high level. Hashi is, um, leveraging the SUI security effectively using the validators of SUI to effectively allow large institutions to generate bonds backed by Bitcoin. So if I have $10 billion worth of Bitcoin and I want to borrow, um, dollars, I can leverage Hashi as a protocol to do that on the Bitcoin blockchain without ever having to manage keys on Suite, without having to manage complicated primitives to make it possible, fully decentralized, and then generate stablecoins straight out of it and pay that back and and and receive a coupon to whoever originated it. So it's going to be a fully decentralized mechanism to generate, um, Bitcoin-based bonds. It's by no means a competitor to like an ec programmability solutions around moving assets across any chain you want. Very, very amazing, very deep technology that is using very advanced MPC tech to to make it possible at a scale that's never been possible before, and it's going to be very much a part of how the Suite stack grows over time. The second thing was a question on Cryptogard. Cryptogard is effectively a use of a three stack to offer something called binary transparency, where, you know, one of the biggest problems we see on the internet today, especially in crypto, even in banking, is you go to a website and it's effectively the front end you're engaging with is not what the developer intended. Therefore, you're signing transactions you don't intend to sign and lose money, or you're giving away personal or private information to, you know, bad actors that you did not intend to do so. So, CryptoGod will help secure four and a half to five billion people on the internet by effectively allowing governments, banks, um, G5 protocols, effectively as it engage with, um, websites to get the certainty that the site has not been tampered with by a bad actor. So, this is something that's going to have wide range of ramifications beyond just part of this element of making the internet a fundamentally safer place for those to trade. As you know, consumer protection and consumer safety is one of the largest adoption barriers that cryptos actually had. I actually think the internet has had the same issue. But if we can give strong guarantees to browsers that what the user is engaging with is exactly what developer intended to do, um, to have them engage with, you can remove a significant amount of of attacks. In fact, the hack that happened to Bybit would not be possible with Cryptogard as a technology. So it would have saved billions of dollars in losses and a lot of pain for consumers as well. So we're working on that technology. We actually work with a lot of partners who are going to roll that out next year. And it's not a product we're selling. It's actually going to be offered by a number of parties using the Swack. This is another example of something the Swack allowed builders to build that's certainly just not possible anywhere else.
>> And Deniki, you should add that some of the partners are some of the biggest players on security providing, like tooling for for wallets.
>> Yeah. It's not easy for them to get tools that they didn't create, and for the first time, they've seen an external tool that they hugged and and they gave it a hug and they said, "Okay, we're going to use it." Because Cryptogard indeed solves a problem, right? What you see is what you get. It's not that you have a, I don't know, a Trojan or someone attacked the website of the, uh, of the owner of an app, and accidentally you thought you are sending, I don't know, 1 million to us, and the money goes to Evan, right? Um, this is this is what we're trying to solve here.
>> Evan will be happy with that. [laughter]
>> All right. Probably let's close it out and probably, you know, what are what closing statement would you like to make, Evan?
>> Yeah, I think I think a lot of people are asking the questions like, what makes three different, right? And the people who look at the three in depth understand that stack, all the things we build had a sense what we are about. We continue to innovate at kind of at infrastructure level, but what's missing today perhaps are these sort of lighthouse examples of product. The product can only build on three stack and nowhere else that define what web three is, define what crypto ecosystem about. It's a broader ecos, you know, sort of an industry problem, right? People, this is what we hear all the time. It's like, what have you done for me since D5? What's new for consumers to be excited about? Why should they care about crypto? Why are these tokens out there? Right? And for that question, it's like, watch us, right? And that's basically the the takeaway here. 2026 is all about actually turning all that promise, all that potential, all the excitement about the technology into products you can touch, you understand, that define the narrative and change the the game. Like I don't know what part of cycle we are, right? But I know we need to drive excitement into all crypto, all game, and the only way to do that is to bring in lots and lots of new users to innovative products, and that's what's going to happen. All the things you got to ask about, when is this, when that, that's just watch this, right? And this is we spend a lot of time building. You know, think about it, three is what, two plus years old, really ecosystem. The first year is basically getting all the basic stuff working, and then you have 2025, you have a lot of growth in here and there, but the stack is not ready, a lot of things are not ready. It's hard to build innovative products when a lot of missing pieces are still missing. And now we're there, and this is going to be the year. Um, so yeah, you should get excited. Um, and and this is what I kind of think about all the time. This is what I get excited all the time. Like I'm I'm not going to wait around for all the protocols, all the ecosystem say, "Oh yeah, look at what we can do." Or people talk about, "Oh, we're faster. We're cheaper," and all that. None of that matters. It is going to be consumers getting excited about something that impacts their life, and that's just watch us, right? That's what's going to happen in 2026.
>> Well, you heard it here, folks. Uh, there's a question on when. I'm not going to say when. I'm going to say soon. More than anything is poised for a great year in 2026. We spent the last two plus years building the the stack and infrastructure. You've seen the amount of dedication and how fast we ship. I think we've outshipped every single layer one in the last two to three years alone. So we'll continually ship, um, great software, but more importantly, now the focus will be on growing the pie, growing the amount of developers in the Suite platform, growing the amount of successful businesses on the platform, growing protocol revenue, and really showing that this decentralized stack is going to be what powers the future of a global economy. Thanks, everyone, and speak very soon. Take care.