Transcription
In this bag are four cars that I've been hanging on to since July in Carbo. I had Caleb Rolston come and speak to Black Bel and Boardroom. He's the content strategy guy behind Gary Vee, kind of famous, and the Hormosis, also kind of famous, and he spoke to our clients.
And then the day before he flew home, I was like, "Hey, Kevin, do you reckon we could shoot a podcast tomorrow?" He's like, "Yeah, man. Of course." And then I was scratching my head going, "Well, I'm super stoked about talking to Caleb on a pod, but I don't have a format that does that." Cuz up until then, my content formats were like Taki teaches cool thing and Taki interviews, cool client doing cool stuff. And Caleb was not a client and he was teaching me. So I'm like, "Okay, I could really use some help with this stuff, with this brand content strategy pieces." Because there was a couple of things which just like hard and clunky. I'm like, "How about we did this? What if I sat down with Caleb and just got him to like consult to me and then I got Sean to lurk in the corner and record the whole thing? Like it's been super useful for me. These four damn cards have like changed my content life. And so what you're about to watch is a conversation where Caleb's helping out with that my stuff. We call the format what should we do about blank? And the blank is brand. What should we do about my brand? Listen, I got a ton out of this. If you do, great. Um I got what I needed. Hopefully it's useful for you as well. Enjoy."
Thank you so much. I'm super grateful. I got one question that I need answered before you leave Mexico. What should we do about brand and content? Cuz we are uh we're new. We're not good yet and it's going amazing despite being very average.
>> Yeah.
>> Teach me. What do I need to know?
>> Uh the number one thing that I got here
>> Yeah.
>> about you. Yeah.
>> Is so many people talking about how legit you are in a space where a lot of people are not legit and there's a big reputation of people not being legit. And so I think that you have that very strong brand already.
>> Yeah. But I can't come out and say, "Hey, I'm legit."
>> No. No. You have to document and show that, right? And so I think even even content at the expense of views and optimization and performance content of you going back and forth with some of these coaches.
>> Yeah.
>> And really talking through a lot of that I think will be a very big thing for youth because this world and I'm very new to this so please take everything I'm saying with a grain of salt. But from an outsers's perspective there's like this veil that people put over it. Yeah.
>> To kind of mask
>> Yeah. Yeah, there's a pay wall and you can see this you can see the real once you pay. Um, I've always thought about a lot of people in our space feel like they position themselves as the king. And I I don't want or need that or aspire to that, but I've always loved the idea of if the client's the king, then when it works, which it does without trying to, I sort of become the king maker.
>> And the So I my favorite thing to do is to chat with clients. I mean, fake to camera stuff's fine, but I love interviewing them and pulling like just going look at this amazing human who's doing it, making stuff, I don't know how much that should be part of the content strategy
>> that and like, you know, and I understand there's dynamics with with with stuff, but and and certain people don't want to be mentioned, but you have had so many people that do very very big [ __ ] come through the program. And I think if more people were aware
>> Yeah.
>> of that and and everything like that would be [ __ ] huge because I know for me as I've discovered individuals that have gone through your program, I've been like, "Oh my god,
>> it's the who's who of everybody in the business space."
>> Yeah.
>> Like all of them.
>> And so I think like
>> the majority of them,
>> you know, not all, but it's a lot of great folks. I'm super proud of it. And so like I think you know if we believe and we agree on the definition of branding and brand
>> I do now it's a deliberate pairing of things consistently
>> then these people that everyone admires and thinks of as as legit they came through this
>> like that's [ __ ] crazy. That is that is in my opinion one of the best positioning tools that you can use. Obviously, you know, there's there's a lot of different ways to go about it and stuff. And there's a lot of people that are currently in this world in your community right now.
>> Yeah.
>> That are clients of yours.
>> Yeah.
>> That are going to go on and do crazy [ __ ]
>> Yeah. 100%.
>> And and having that tie back to you is massive.
>> Yeah.
>> Okay. So, um, I've got a million things I want to ask, but let's jump into this cuz I I nip how what does that look like in a in a video or a video series?
>> Yeah. Um, I think it's Have you seen the immediately when you asked that, the first thing that came to mind, have you seen Simon Squib's videos?
>> Yeah.
>> Okay. I think he does an incredible job of sitting down with people and breaking down
>> care if I scribble.
>> No, not literally. This is what I was about to say that I think you should do what you're doing right now with clients,
>> okay?
>> And sitting down and architecting and breaking down what they're doing that's working. And the cool thing about that is those clients, a lot of what they're doing that's working, they're going to be like, "Well, I mean, I got this from you."
>> Yeah.
>> And and just those little moments right there,
>> that's all you need in my opinion. That over and over, that's it.
>> Nothing crazy. Like it it doesn't need to be super complicated. Yeah,
>> that I think is what will show people the impact and effect the the Takim Moore effect, right? And so
>> uncomfortable calling it that, but
>> No, you don't want to call it that. No, but I'll call it that.
>> Like that that would be the number one thing that I'd be doing. And so I think you sitting down, you love to draw. You do it very well. You're really good at being able to literally like visualize a concept on the spot.
>> Yeah.
>> I think that is a competitive advantage that you have. But don't do it on a piece of paper. do it on a iPad so you can record it and that way you have that in post in the video.
>> That's good.
>> Uh and so I grab I grab a client. Is this like a a long form thing? Is it Sorry, to be super tactical.
>> No, no, no, no. It's a YouTube video. Uh ideally 30 minutes plus.
>> Okay.
>> And what you're doing is you're making sure you're
>> loosely you should try to follow some sort of structure and format. Yes. But like in my opinion, this is not a width play, it's a depth play.
>> Yeah.
>> And I would argue your first year of going hard should be more about depth than width. A lot of people do the opposite and they try to go ultra wide and they try to, you know, do the the real youtuby style. Sean, you know what I'm talking about. Like they they try to do the very youtuby style content.
>> Yeah. And that's great, but I believe what that ends up doing is it brings in an audience that doesn't believe that you have the depth of knowledge that you actually do. And so then you're having to almost educate your audience on the fact that like no, I got it like that.
>> Yeah.
>> Versus building the foundation that way and then going wider. I think it's a way stronger position because your core audience
>> Yeah.
>> will vouch for you and speak for you in the comment section moving forward. So, I like to build that that that foundation very strong.
>> Is this um I'm going to like how you three times just until I get it.
>> Uh so, it's a a long form chat with a client. Is it a interview them, what are they doing, or is it a helping them consult or is it a hybrid?
>> I think both.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. I think I would have that be you could break it down into multiple segments. Yeah.
>> So, what's working right now? What are the areas that we could improve
>> and then areas of opportunity that you see?
>> Cool.
>> And then in like you're literally demonstrating you're one showing results. Two, you're demonstrating the ability to optimize.
>> Yeah.
>> I like it that it's on the spot too. Yeah. Me too.
>> It shows it like a different level of chops too.
>> Yeah.
>> It also means there's no prep, which I really
>> Oh, yeah. Absolutely.
>> Yeah.
>> Okay.
>> Now, actually, not true though. There does need to be prep. And the prep needs to be you figure out
>> you at least need structure.
>> Oh yeah. There like I I freestyle in a framework. So there's always like in my head I know where we're going to go but I don't want to like have looked at all their numbers and figured out the plan before we start.
>> Beautiful. And then the second thing and people will say oh this is contra contradictory to what you just said but uh you want to play the depth game but let's give it the best at bat to also go wide. And so you should go into this knowing what the title and thumbnail are before you ever sit down and hit record.
>> Oh, determine what that is. So you know where this coach is an expert, the results they've gotten, all these things. And so you're going to create what the title is, and then you're going to orient the episode around that. And so like when you record the intro, like this for example,
>> yeah,
>> you're going to record the intro of this after we're done here, right? And the best version of that is you validate that people clicked on the right thing.
>> Yeah.
>> Right. Like you remember way back in the day like when you get Rick rolled on on YouTube like you thought it was like something right.
>> People still are concerned about that. And so like when they click on a video the thing they're looking for is am I in the right spot?
>> Did I just make the worst mistake of my minute?
>> Right. Exactly.
>> Yeah.
>> Okay.
>> If you do that it will be incredible content. And I need to know the title and the thumbnail first.
>> I am a big fan of doing that. Yes,
>> I find that is
>> How do I do that?
>> Here, I I'll I'll put it in another way for you that you will really [ __ ] with, I think.
>> Yeah.
>> Think about your title and your packaging of a YouTube video like an offer. Okay.
>> Okay, that's good.
>> The more clear it is on the outcome that they get,
>> right?
>> Yeah.
>> Bang.
>> YouTube videos are just mini offers.
>> Yeah. Okay, that's great. I can do that. That's good.
>> That one came out literally two nights ago when I was talking to one of the awesome people in boardroom.
>> Yeah.
>> Okay, that's helpful. Um,
>> okay. So, we've gone nerdy down into one thing, which is great. I've got to I've already got one one thing to do. That's good. Uh, zoom back out. You're brand strategy guy. Um, what else? So, we do shows where I get to hang out with clients, which is my favorite thing in the whole world, and jam with them live. Also great. What else is there that I should be thinking about? Like if you thought I know you've seen a tiny bit about like you've seen this. I don't know if you've seen any of my stuff on on Insta or YouTube, but what what should I be doing more of or less of contentwise? Like should should there be a 15-minute teachy thing? It's like my current format is like once a week there's a teacher, once a week I interview a client who's doing great stuff.
>> So, I can give you two answers to that. There's the one that you're going to like the most, which is yeah, keep doing that. And then there's the second one which will do way better which is you take what you just said in one of those talks in one of those group calls.
>> Yeah.
>> And you then restructure it for a YouTube video.
>> Yeah.
>> And you sit down and film that.
>> Just so I'm clear.
>> So basically you're going to take
>> this makes it easier.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> I think that's what I maybe that's what I do now. Like we the future videos that I'm shooting to to camera are I did something in black belt that banged.
>> Yep.
>> And then we we give the clients some time to win with it first.
>> Yep.
>> I'm sorry, but it's true. And then we then we Yes.
>> There's nothing wrong with that. You're waiting for the result. Yeah.
>> Yeah. It's existing. It's stuff that's proven with clients and for us that then we repackage for YouTube. Is that what you're saying?
>> Yeah.
>> Okay. So, that's what I'm saying.
>> Keep doing that. Yeah.
>> Great. but have the title and thumbnail built before you film it. So, this happened, you have you know what it's going to be about, right? So, then you create the packaging around that
>> and that influences
>> the way that you go about making the video. So, everything needs to ladder back to that packaging. Basically, it's constantly confirming that like, yep, yeah, doing that. We're doing that.
>> Yeah.
>> Uh I think that's going to be very effective for you. So, yeah, I would just continue doing that. I think for you it's going to be experimenting with the ways that you do it, the format in which you do it.
>> Yeah.
>> I think that's going to be the big kicker for you.
>> Yeah. Let's talk about that because um if if I had um you know on my tombstone there'll be two things. The most accurate one is uh Tak you know 1976 to whenever I crap out by the city of his pants will be my tagline.
>> Okay. But the mantra is like, how do I be fun and useful? Because if it's fun, I want to do it forever. And if it's useful, I'm actually helping.
>> Yep.
>> Um, I feel like the content we're producing is useful. It's I think it's fun to receive, but it's not. It's feels like work to create. Like, it's way easier for me to run a 3 hour a 3-day workshop than it is to film a 30-minute YouTube video right now. Y, which is weird.
>> I mean, it's new. The first thing that comes to mind is I think you should take a a wooden chair, stick it out in the ocean, sit in it.
>> Yeah.
>> Have your feet in the water and film a video out there.
>> I don't know if you've done that already, but I I feel like you mentioned how much you love the ocean.
>> 100%. Yeah. I feel like I'm in I'm indoors way too much and I frankly I only use a computer to talk to clients. I don't like type stuff.
>> Um and I'm in front of a freaking computer the whole time.
>> Yeah. I think getting outside is the key.
>> The the if you want to get very technical for a second, what I would do is I would buy an outdoor TV that's 50 to 55 in and I would have it right below the camera and I would have your outline with your bullets on that so that you can reference that as like a comfort monitor.
>> Yeah.
>> And I would film outdoors in cool locations that you really like that you enjoy.
>> Yeah.
>> I would we'll get real tactical like whatever snacks
>> Yeah.
>> beverages you like have those. the TV for just some paper.
>> Yeah, of course. Yeah, what whatever you prefer.
>> Yeah, I'd rather like post-it notes and and cards.
>> I actually love this idea of like you sitting at a desk like just like a very Do you remember Casey Neistat's videos where he would like take a desk square?
>> Yeah. Do it again.
>> Like you doing that but in nature. Like imagine you're like I just picture like this like forest or jungle setting, not like a campground or anything like literally. And like, and I know I'm getting absurd here with like logistics and everything, but I feel like you sitting at a desk.
>> Yeah.
>> That is [ __ ] cool. And then you get like an overhead angle to be able to capture the drawings and stuff like that. Like that. See, I'm always trying to think of like like Trevor and I are always thinking of what's the cool Wow, we got a truck going by here. Everyone's going to hear that in the background at a hell of gas. Cali gas with those squeaky brakes.
>> Um, but we're always trying to think of like a cool location to be able to film the content. Yeah. Right. And partially because I like the aesthetic.
>> Yeah.
>> Sean, I know you're just wincing right now. It's brutal. I can wait if you want. No, keep going. All right. Uh, like we're always trying to find something that fits a visual aesthetic, but also something that I'm going to enjoy.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. Like we've been talking about doing literally what I just said to you. We've been talking about doing that, but it's summer in Vegas, so we can't [ __ ] do that because I'm gonna be roasting.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like I've run. Yeah. I think outdoors is the is the missing piece for me. Um we were in Croatia sailing with the fam for a couple weeks. We go almost every year and uh
>> Sounds epic.
>> Oh, it's so good. You have to go. So, I'm running webinars at like midnight or late in the evening because of time zones to Australia. Pulled up at this dock and I'm just sitting on the, you know, they have like a swim platform.
>> Okay.
>> Like basically a little thing that pops down the back so you can get on and off the boat easy.
>> Okay.
>> Side benefit. Your feet are in the water. It's really nice. Running a webinar there and this massive ferry boat comes in and we're in their spot. And so halfway through teaching this class and we have to go. And so the the thing just like sails away and people like, "Oh my god, he's on a boat and it's moving." It's like,
>> "Yeah, anytime I'm out on location, I'm just way more alive than at the desk." So that's really helpful.
>> Um, can we talk about Casey for a minute?
>> Yeah.
>> So Casey's my idol.
>> Did you see the Casey night quote in the lobby?
>> He would have loved the quote. It's so rambling.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. He would have hated the fight. He doesn't believe he doesn't believe the bonds are artistic.
>> Um, so I'm obsessed with that guy and his brother Van and the whole
>> Yeah. Van's a low-key legend.
>> Van is a legend. Um, so they both shoot solo and I've had this like I love that they're out on location and they can have an idea and just go. I don't, you know, when you've got like level 10 taste and like level minus 58 skill. That's where I'm at with this stuff. uh like a turtle flipped on his back was just like
>> helpless.
>> Um is the idea of shooting solo just a stupid thing that I should get out of my head?
>> No. No. Uh we haven't known each other for very long. Yeah.
>> What I'm getting though is that that would be a limiting factor for you.
>> I think you need a cowboy.
>> Yeah. Okay, great.
>> You are a wild stallion. Yes, I just called you a stallion. I love that. I'll take
>> You're welcome. Uh, clip that one. All Italian.
>> I I lost my I didn't even spell cowboy, right? There's a Q in it cuz you said while Italian
>> Yeah, I I think that's what you need. You need somebody that can corral you. And so, uh, that's like that's 100% what you need. It it won't from what I've gotten from you, it won't work that way. I'm the same way.
>> If I like the reason why I hired number one was a full-time content director in Trevor Odum.
>> Yeah. The reason why
>> he's a legend. Holy [ __ ] He's right there. But I'll just say the best. Yeah, he's insane. And I I've been doing this for 16 years and day one I'm like, "What the [ __ ] am I going to do? I have no idea." Right. I had to lean on him. And I've been doing this forever.
>> Yeah.
>> Right. And so I I think
>> for some people it works. I think for Casey it worked during that season.
>> Yeah.
>> You know. Yeah.
>> Um
>> Okay, that's good. I can just risk that. But I think a lot of people it's probably not the right move.
>> All right. Outdoors is good. Uh I need to draw or else it doesn't
>> I'm going to hit on that for a second. Yeah. Every busy uh like kinetic thinking entrepreneur needs a cowgirl or a cowboy. Yeah. They they need somebody who you have a level of rapport with where they can push back on you. Yeah. Right. Like Trevor and I have a dynamic because he and I have established this and he's earned it.
>> Yeah.
>> Where he can push back on me.
>> Yeah.
>> Like uh I'm going to be very real with you. I personally feel like I could have done the talk that we did way better and we were planning on put it out on YouTube and I was like, man, I don't know.
>> Yeah.
>> Right. Like and I was so nervous and went into Q&A I didn't even get to the fifth lie. So what did we end up doing? He he pushed back on me. He's like, "No, it is a lot better than you think it is. We should put it out." But I was like, "Okay, cool. We'll go back into the room and f film the fifth lie." Oh, we did that that night.
>> Oh, well done.
>> And thank you. But like that was a scenario where I was saying, "I don't know about this, but I trust you." Yeah. And so he was like, "Nope, we're going to [ __ ] put it out." Yeah.
>> All right. So, while we've got the Caligas truck rumbling in the background, Tony's just popped over and said, "Can you talk about pre-production?" Cuz honestly, the thing that makes it frictiony and not flow is uh Tony super organized and I'm super not.
>> I thought it was the opposite.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well,
>> very much not. That was sarcastic. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Just to be super clear.
>> Tonyy's extremely organized. Gangster. Yeah.
>> Um and I think it probably is hard during because it's not dialed before. and always.
>> Yeah. Talk to me about, let's say you've got an idea for a video. Yep.
>> What's the timeline look like to go I've got this idea through to we're now filming this idea and it's good like
>> Okay.
>> Do you want me to tell you what we do and then you can rip it to shreds or do you want
>> I'll give you a little rip and then let's go into what you do. Uh I'll tell you what we do. Um, and it's not what most people should do in my opinion. Uh, we take a long time on it because I'm still at the point where I'm trying to get comfortable with putting out content. So, I need to be unbelievably proud of it before we put it out. So, uh, we typically will take a couple of weeks of like usually two weeks of me in the evenings uh, riffing on an outline. And
>> that's more than the six minutes. Tiny tiny cracking. Yeah, usually like
>> that. Oh my god.
>> I'd say probably it ends up totaling in like 12 to 18 hours uh of pre-production. Now I'm
>> You're a gangster. I I don't even know if I've got that in me.
>> I don't think that's the right move, by the way.
>> Oh, it's definitely not the right move. But somewhere between my six minutes and your your two weeks Yeah. is a sweet spot.
>> And and the reason why, though, and and I think this is the big kicker. I'm doing it despite knowing it's not the right move because I know it's what's going to make me stick with this.
>> I will only continue doing this if the content I put out for the first year I'm very very proud of.
>> Yeah.
>> After that I believe it'll become a habit. But right now it is not a habit yet. It is something that I am forcing. Okay. And so I need to be able to put and for me I you have the gift of you've been communicating publicly and in front of people for a very long time
>> and it's taught. I have not. I been behind the scenes. So, I'm still learning. Like, I literally was picking up on how you teach and now moving forward, I'm gonna implement that. But like, I didn't know any of that [ __ ] you know? So, I'm still figuring out that's also why it takes me so long. So, that's a little note there. Um, but the big thing that I I try to do is I try to think about like how can I disprove what I'm saying and share. I'm trying my best to make my content as evergreen as possible. Uh that way if you watch it in 2025 when we released it or in 2032, hopefully the robots haven't changed everything and it's still relevant and useful. And so that that's what I'm spending the time beating it up on.
>> I get evergreen. Tell me about disproof.
>> Uh basically just trying to
>> Sorry, I'm just shouting over the Elgastro. Uh, I'm just trying to make sure that what I'm saying is valid in multiple scenarios.
>> Gotcha. So I and that's where I use chat boutique. I I tell it to take on a hardcore skeptic frame. And you know how like Chad just wants to confirm every Yeah, you're the best. You're just awesome. You're so smart. I tell it to be ruthless with me and rip every single thing apart in my outline and then I go section by section and I'll refine it. Now, I don't think that's what you should do. Uh, I would argue again picking up what what I'm getting from you vibewise.
>> Yeah.
>> There's the perfect version of this and then there's the version that I would recommend you do.
>> I want that one.
>> But here's the key.
>> Yeah.
>> And this is where everybody [ __ ] up.
>> Yeah.
>> Everybody in this space
>> Yeah.
>> is busy or occupying their time doing something else. They're not willing to put a ton of time into the media, but they expect the results of the people that put a ton of time into the media. And that's like and and I'm hammering it less for you, but anybody
>> like that's a huge deal.
>> And that's where a lot of people go wrong is like
>> if you're going to make concessions on the level of effort that you put into the content, you have to make concessions on the expectations of the outcome.
>> Yeah.
>> Right. Yeah. Now, the beauty that I think we're like the results we're getting are significantly better than the effort we're putting in right now. And I think that's just force of luck or an existing audience a little bit on like email and stuff. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Like
>> Yeah.
>> All right. So,
>> wait. When you say it's working,
>> dude. I've been We've grown so much so fast. No, I don't I don't mean channel growth. I mean like actual clients.
>> Yeah. Working with us. Yes. despite being
>> um nowhere near professional.
>> So like you have all the validation to Yeah. You go to the Yeah.
>> Yeah. Yeah. What's the ratio of like if there's a a pie chart or a percentage of like pre-production to actual shoot? How much time goes into the shoot versus before?
>> Uh time I'd say probably 80%
>> before.
>> Yeah. Oh my god.
>> You don't win or lose in the filming or editing, Kai. Where you win or lose is in the plan.
>> I want to stop. I want to get off.
>> It's in the idea.
>> And and that applies to education or entertainment.
>> Yep.
>> Like, you know, this has been a thing that everybody like Sean knows this because everybody in the production world knows like the pre-production is where it's at. Somewhere along the way when things transitioned from film to YouTube, it started shifting for a second, but then characters like Jimmy have come onto the scene and it just been murdering and all he talks about is like, you know, I said 80% of the time, but it's 95% of what determines whether or not you win or not.
>> Wow. I don't know if I've got what it takes anymore. I was so I absolutely do. so confident when we started this conversation.
>> Um,
>> okay.
>> You you have the framework of the structure.
>> Yeah. I've already got the content,
>> but then what you got to do is just experiment with different structures until you find the one that hits.
>> Yeah. And then like what what I like to do is I would encourage you to create a almost like a templated structure and format that you can follow that you just input information into
>> and so you know you're going to share it in the right order and all you got to do is like Mad Lib style fill in the information.
>> Yeah.
>> I think are they called Mad Libs in Australia?
>> Yeah.
>> You know what? I know what you're talking about.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. Okay. But that doesn't sound as scary as I think we kind of do that. What we don't do is we we do that but we don't do it early enough.
>> How are your intros right now?
>> Like how long does it take to get to the first nugget of gold?
>> I feel like the the intros are I feel like they're too long. Um, they're not they're not terrible, but I feel like we're doing uh I promise some proof, you know, here's the plan what we're going to talk about and then we get into the thing and I feel like they feel uncomfortably long for me and I've a very low tolerance for waiting.
>> I think people misunderstand that framework and uh I think it takes up too much time. Yeah, I agree. So, have your proof be a lower third. Don't say it. Bam. done. We just eliminated 10 seconds. Uh have your plan be the visual road map that you show as you're describing it, right? And do your very darnest to get to the first nugget of gold like 20 to 35 seconds in.
>> Oh, okay. I'm miles away from that. Uh, and and I would actually we're we're more and more getting to the point where it's like
>> give the hook, give a gold, and then give the plan because like the best retention tool.
>> Yeah. It's useful.
>> Exactly. Yes. And so the earlier you get that in, you do the same thing. You That's what you tell coaches, right? Like how do we get the result quicker?
>> Yeah.
>> It's the same in content, which is why I like the frame for especially this world that is like deep on offers. Yeah,
>> like if you think about a YouTube video like an offer, you will do it in a wildly different way.
>> Okay, so that was like 25 seconds
>> ideally.
>> That's amazing.
>> And I don't follow this every time by any means. By any means. Like in the course, I don't think I even give the definition of branding until maybe like 45 50 seconds in. Maybe even a minute in. But that's also relative to a six-hour video.
>> Yeah. Sure. But like we're doing our best to just like immediately get to the value.
>> Okay, that's actually good cuz the Okay, this brings us to scripting.
>> One more thing real quick. You can also inject the proof into the packaging.
>> Yeah, that's true.
>> Yep. Uh lower.
>> Yeah, lower third or packaging. This is great. This is so helpful. Um, you're going to have to sign one of these cards when we're done, by the way. Um, that'll devalue it. No, it 100% won't. I'll frame it. I'll stick it on my ceiling and wake up and look at it and Okay, let's see.
>> Well, if you do that, you got to put a photo of my face next to it, you know? Got to make it a little bit weirder.
>> Yeah. Yeah. I don't actually I don't want to do that anymore.
>> Um, good morning. Uh, okay. I'm loving this. Um, so it's just the promise and then the gold and then I can get into the the plan, the visual map. That's good. I like that a lot. Um, when I first started, I hadn't seen found you on the internet yet. And the two people who were doing what I considered great YouTube were very um, one of them has got a really strong like TV presenter background,
>> okay?
>> And uh, like lives and dies by telebr. And then there's this amazing cat called Callaway who's extraordinary. more value per minute at all muscle, no fat.
>> Yeah.
>> And it's scripted and he's like reads a line and it bangs and he reads the next line and it bangs. And so I tried that and I found it really stifling.
>> I personally don't like it.
>> Yeah. Good. End of story.
>> I I don't like it for me.
>> No, I don't like it for me. I'm not saying for others.
>> Yeah. Some people though, that's what they need. Especially if you're trying to get into this and you're like stumbling over your words or
>> No, I stumble over my words when I if I read them. Like there was a couple YouTube actually videos which I read I was like this is really hard.
>> I can't even read.
>> It's terrible. Yeah. Yeah.
>> But like I do think for individuals like you and I that have what I call bunny brain,
>> it is good to have some sort of an outline to get keep you like in line. Otherwise, like you and I will just go on [ __ ] wild tangents.
>> Yeah. So for me, I have like I'll script slash like at least bullet the hook and then I've just got like pictures which is my guides for the rest and that works for me cuz I I know what that means and I can talk about that for as long as it needs to be good. Um, okay, can we switch and talk about team?
>> Sure.
>> Uh we've
>> my favorite
>> uh yeah your favorite.
>> A year ago our team was big but co was really good for us. It was awful to live in, but business-wise it was really good and we grew and t ended up at like 36 people and I'm not management material. I found it really stressful.
>> Felt like we got like fat and bloated and so now we're a team of eight and I love it and I I get to be founder not CEO and it's feels light. Um, I'm worried about to do this well. I need some people that I don't have.
>> Yeah. How do I
>> And I don't need to Yeah, I know you and Alex at you really tight work together for a long time.
>> He talks about optimizers and maximizers.
>> Like a maximizer is like even incremental returns are still return. I'm going to go there. And he's like, if I can squeak out one more half a percent, it's worth it. I'm an optimizer. I don't need all that. What's the minimum viable awesome team? Like I want to be I want to be as great as I can, as lean as I can team wise.
>> I mean, you could just go with a Trevor. It it the best case scenario is you have somebody who is fulltime on your behalf thinking about your content and taking note of all the different ways. So, I'm not a big trend guy, but I do like to know what's going on in the marketplace, and I like to know what we can take advantage of in order to share our message in a way that will reach more people.
>> Yeah.
>> And so, you want somebody that is going to be thinking about that 24/7 on your behalf. Somebody who is going to be curious.
>> Yeah.
>> And pull the best out of you. Yeah.
>> In the same way that you ask such phenomenal questions,
>> you need somebody to do the same thing for you.
>> Yeah. And you especially are the type of person that when you get an idea, you need to act on it within I would say 24 to 48 hours.
>> Yeah. And so you need somebody who can just do that. Like Trevor and I live 10 minutes away from each other live. So like if we have an idea and we want to [ __ ] riff on it, Sean and I were talking about this yesterday. Like we can just immediately like he can be over, you know, 15 minutes later that we can just rip.
>> Yeah. And I find that when I'm the most excited about a topic, it comes through in the best way and I have the best insights on it. And you're the same way. And so, like, that's what you need. You need somebody who can film, edit, and make simple graphics, nothing [ __ ] crazy. And I think you could get away with one person for a very long time. Okay. And then the moment that you want to increase volume, then more than likely you will want to hire an editor. Yeah. because this person you have that rapport with. You don't want to spend less time with them. You want the editor to be able to give them more time with you.
>> Another like big one here is when you hire this person, spend an ungodly amount of time with them in the upfront. Get dinner with them every [ __ ] night for like a month. That's obviously extreme, but like get like like hang out, spend time, talk about [ __ ] that has nothing to do with the content because the more that they get to know you.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> Yeah. Like Sam and Dan. Oh.
>> Uh, super tight.
>> They Sam's a [ __ ]
>> Oh, he's a legend.
>> Oh, Sam and Dan have a great dynamic.
>> Yeah, they do. Sam's a G. Last name Sam G. up. Sam is constantly thinking about the content and Dan doesn't I I don't know what their dynamic is, but I assume that Dan doesn't have to think nearly as much about it and he can just be like, "This is something that I want to talk about or I saw this video. I like the way they did it. How could we execute this?" Yeah. And then Sam operationalizes that.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. Okay. That's helpful. Um All right. I think I've I've asked everything I wanted to talk about. This has been really helpful. Um, what I would love is if you just gave me the Taki, if this is the last conversation we ever have about content, make sure you one, two, and three or give it to me straight. Well, I'll tell you what I'm probably gonna scream from the mountain tops in 2026,
>> okay?
>> Which is take I I'll articulate it in a slightly different way.
>> Yeah.
>> Um and this way it applies for you and everybody. Yeah.
>> Look at what your competitors are doing and charging for.
>> Yeah.
>> Make a better version of it and put it out for free.
>> Yeah.
>> And it'll scare everybody. Uh, I have been I learned this from Gary. Yeah. And I have I read his book when I was in [ __ ] high school and it was the only book I read in high school and I then worked for the man and saw it, right? And then we built later I went on and built a media team and helped scale a brand off of this whole premise.
>> Yeah.
>> And then when I went to do it for myself, I'm sitting there with Trevor. I'm like, we could charge for this and it could be a money printing machine
>> 100%.
>> And
>> it's so good. Thank you.
>> No, like it's legit good. Um,
>> I think we could make a lot of money off of it directly in that moment. But I believe the reason why we will continue to make money ongoing is because we put it out for free. And what it does is it shows people, and I'm going to sound like a douchebag here, but
>> shows that you got the jobs.
>> Yes. Thank you for saying it for me. Yeah.
>> And and and that's what I want everybody to do
>> is like
>> instead and everybody thinks that that means that they're not going to get clients like that like everyone's going to watch that and then be like, "Well, I don't need them."
>> But it's the exact opposite. And the example I use cuz I'm wearing a Harley shirt like I have made every modification you [ __ ] can to my Road King.
>> Yeah.
>> And I watched probably a hundred videos on how to change the exhaust pipe.
>> Yeah.
>> What did I not do? Change the exhaust pipe. Because I watched it and I was like, I'm not mechanic.
>> Now I know what to do and what I want and that guy does a really good job of it.
>> Exactly. And I know how much I would [ __ ] it up if I do it myself. I'd waste my time and I'd end up spending more money because I would do it incorrectly and it would cause damage to my bike.
>> Yeah.
>> A lot of people are going to watch that and see, okay, this guy knows what he's talking about. If I do it myself, I will cause damage to my brain because I'm not going to do it correctly.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. Yeah. When you give freely of the information, you earn the right to judge opinion implementation.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> But um it's not
>> and then you help more people too. Like there are so many people that will never be able to work with us, but we're able to help them in a way that is easy for them to access.
>> Yeah.
>> And I don't expect genuinely anything from it. 99.9% of people that watch that I'll never get any sort of like dollar from. And I love that. So, this was my idea for the show today, the conversation. What should we do about brand? I've got a plan. This is really good. I'm like stoked on this. Um, there were a couple of moments where it got a bit scary for me, but I'm super clear. Uh, and it feels doable and great and fun. So, and all the scary things, don't do them yet.
>> Yeah, I need to do some of them.
>> Push your way towards it, though. You know, like Yeah. Like I'm getting back into my fitness journey of trying to get in shape. I used to compete in powerlifting back in the day. Yeah. And used to lift really heavy.
>> I still think that I'm that young strong buck, but I'm not. And if I went into the gym trying to deadlift 500 lb right now, I'm going to break my [ __ ] back.
>> Yeah.
>> I got to ease my way into it and work my way up to it. Yeah.
>> And build the habit of doing it. And I think it's the same with content creation. Like I like anything that feels like duh to me in this first year, we're not doing.
>> Yeah.
>> Like are we deal?
>> Yeah. Your posing cadence intrigued me.
>> And coming from somebody who has worked in environments where all we push is volume.
>> Yeah.
>> It It's very counter what?
>> Wow.
>> That's so funny.
>> That's it. Do you notice the difference? You feel alive. They feel like they're human.
>> Wow. That's crazy. Let's go for another 90.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, dude, this has been so helpful. Uh, I'm really grateful that you took the time.
>> I'm grateful that you wanted to talk.
>> I totally wanted to talk. Um, this is great, man. I'm so super grateful.
>> Thank you. Thank you. Means a lot.
>> Yeah. Let's see what happens if we actually take this a bit seriously.
>> Oh, I know what will happen.
>> Yeah, this is good. Thanks, man.
>> Everything gets better.
>> That was really loud.