If you were tasked with making the world believe that Jeffrey Epstein was dead and getting him out of that prison without anyone knowing to wherever he's going to go to get facial surgery and live out his life, how would you do it? Oh, you would take out the body, whether it's a body double or, you know, made out of silicone or whatever. Take it out in full view of everybody. That's how I would do it. Let as many people as possible see this body so that reasonable people can agree to disagree. They did do that.

Mhm.

Hello, I'm John Kuryaku and I'm here to [ __ ] [ __ ] up. You're like the most famous guy on the internet now. I don't recognize your normal voice. It's killing me.

I know, right? I don't know how this happened. It just happened. Like literally overnight. It just happened. Can we pull up the latest one that we put up, thief?

Yeah.

Let's get John's live reaction. So, when this was happening, when you and I did episodes 278 and 279 together, which was a year ago,

I remember this was probably like an hour 20ome minutes into the first episode, and I remember this whole Lincoln thing coming up out of nowhere. Like, ah this is cool. He's a Lincoln collector. And then you look at me with a dead straight face and you're like, yeah, I was trying to buy Lincoln's last turd. And I at the time we had Allessie in the studio and I'm I'm I'm like turning to Allessie like this this [ __ ] get the series and then you're like oh yeah I was trying to buy it. So when this all started to break like Danny on on our editing team and and I were we're were looking at stuff I'm like you got to make the Lincoln [ __ ] star. So he he did. Let's run it.

Can people see this Steve?

Yeah.

All right let's roll.

Show museum. And it was a museum of circus freak shows from the 1800s and stuff that had been in these circus sideesh shows. They have the shadow box hanging on the wall and there's a dried out turd and it says it's Abraham Lincoln's final turd. Come on. So it says on the card it said when he arrived at Ford's Theater he had to drop a deuce and so before he got seated he went to the men's room and he dropped a deuce in the chamber pot and then he went back to watch the play and he got shot. Somebody had the presence of mind and they say presence in mind for the sickness.

Well, but there are a lot of linking collector.

I see an article in the Washington Post about six months later saying it's going out of business and they're going to auction everything off. So, I told my wife, I'm buying that tur. She's like, "Oh, no you're not." And I said, "Oh, yes, I am. I'm buying that tur." My wife and I actually have strong disagreements about this. We go to the auction and I top out at 1,200 bucks. It ends up going for five grand. So, the guy that ended up buying it sends it to some company for a DNA sample. And what they found was it had like microscopic bits of a necafer in it. But necro wafers weren't invented until 1880.

It wasn't a [ __ ] It wasn't his. Some random guy's turn $5,000 for.

That is one of my better stories. Oh my god. Are you familiar with Black Twitter at all?

No.

Oh, you're not? You need to familiarize yourself. They love you. Yo, this [ __ ] John crazy. Yo, this some words I'm not allowed to say. This [ __ ] out here just saying straight cat, but it's real. And I'm I'm [ __ ] dying reading this.

And I'm telling you, it happened literally overnight.

Yeah.

And I don't understand why.

I know you don't. I mean, you're like, for people that don't know you personally, which is pretty much everyone out there listening, like you've lived this amazing life and done all all these incredible things or whatever, but it's always funny to talk to you like about content cuz you're like, "Oh, was that good?" I'm like, "Yeah, John, like 15 million views on something's really good." And you're like, "Okay." And you leave and we're just like, "You know what? You're happy as a clam. We'll keep it that way."

And you know, some crazy stuff has happened since I saw you last. I've got this great friend, Tyrell Vanto, Jesse Vanto's son. Ty is one of the sweetest men I've ever I've ever met. He's just a really good-hearted, kind guy. What's up, guys? Three quick things. Number one, if you have not already subscribed, please hit that subscribe button. It is a huge, huge help. Number two, if you'd like to join my Patreon for early uncensored releases of these episodes, you can join via the link in my description or my pin comment. And number three, if you'd like to join my clipping community for a chance to edit clips from the show and make money, you can join via the Discord link in my description below. And he calls me one night in July. And uh and he says uh he wrote a movie and Tai's Tai's a Hollywood guy. He's he's done a lot in in film. He wrote this movie. I was like, "Oh, that's cool. Good for you." And he said, "Well, you know, it's going to be this is the story." I was like, "Yeah, that actually sounds like a compelling story line." And I'm thinking, "Why is he telling me this? I'm happy for him. He's going to write this movie." And he said, "Uh, you're going to be in my movie." And I said, "Oh, thank you. No, no, no. I'm not interested." I said, "Listen, I'll be stiff and uh unconvincing. I'm I would be a terrible actor. I've never acted before and I would wreck your movie." And he said, 'Well, I thought of that and I thought you've been you acted every day of your career when you were with the CIA. I said, 'Well, that's actually that's actually true. And he said, "So, I wrote the part specifically for you and you're going to be in the movie." So, I went to Mexico for the whole month of October.

Wow.

And we filmed this movie and I'm very proud to say that I am now a member of the Screen Actors Guild.

Oh, you're in SAG now. That's not suspicious at all. CIA guy in SAG.

I'm also now a professional Hollywood actor.

Were you Did you feel like you were good at it when you were doing it? I feel like you're a natural.

No, I listen. Everybody around me, everybody else in the film was incredible. Like I would stand there just off camera watching them in awe of their ability to do this over and over and over again. scene. We would do each scene eight, 10, 12 times and they were so good. And they've all been in stuff. They've all been in movies and TV series and all kinds of stuff. And then the star of the movie is a a a really great guy, very generous with his time and his advice. Uh Jeff Fehee, I really hit it off with him. He would stand just off camera and whisper directions to me and it made me like I guess believable enough that I didn't make an ass of myself in this movie. So we watched the first cut a couple of Saturdays ago and I was like this movie's actually good. Like I would go to the theater to watch it.

What's it What's it about?

It's about the richest guy in the world who's a cross between Elon Musk and um and uh Eric Prince and he has a son who has become his daughter and so they're estranged and he hasn't told anybody but he's dying of liver cancer and so he invites the the country's preeminent lefty podcaster and the country's preeminent righty podcaster to come and he's going to tell his story for the first time and then they sort of are competing with one another how they're going to shape the story. One falls apart, the other one gets it done and then I'm the director of the guy's security detail. Uh former CIA ops officer.

Oh, right on Q. There you go. But you had to play a bit of a tough guy, right?

Yeah, I had to play an [ __ ] The guy was an [ __ ] and a liar.

You couldn't play that? I was in a dumpster all night. That's another one that's faking the rounds. Do I smell like I've been with a woman and then the best is they switch it back and your voice like we later got divorced [ __ ] let Oh my god. Oh, they start crying.

Oh, well that's very good. I'm I'm glad you're in SAG now. So I just add it to the resume, right?

Last night I cast my votes for the SAG awards now now called the actor awards.

Excellent.

I took it very seriously. They they they send everybody. They're like, you know, 50 million people that are in the SAG, so it it's not like, you know, this was anything necessarily special. It was for me. So, they send you the list of nominees. They send you links to every one of the movies and the TV series. I watched every last one of them and I cast educated votes.

Good for you, John. Someone's taking it seriously. They need your type in there.

That's right. But we we are we are here obviously as like kind of an emergency episode because of what's going on and I know you have some stuff that you heard whispers in the wind if you will about Iran. So we will get to that a little bit later but I definitely want to start on the story of my lifetime I think is what I would say at this point. You and I have talked about it in the past on episodes with Epstein and you know how they've slowly rolled out this case and people have found out information over the years and now there's some files coming out and there's a lot of issues there. But I got to tell you, man, reading through these emails,

yeah,

sickening. There are so many things that in the past people might have presented to me, random people with, let's say, no evidence that I was like, "Come on."

Yeah.

I've done the same thing. That's been my response. Like, come on. You have evidence.

Now, when you read it, are you like me where you're like, "Well, I can't rule this out anymore."

I will say I've got a great friend, Ben Swan, terrific investigative journalist who was laser focused on Pizzagate. And Pizzagate always sounded so insane to me that I was like, "Come on, man. What are you doing? You're going to kill your career with this Pizzagate thing." First of all, the pizza place doesn't even have a basement where they're keeping kids, right? And this clown from North Carolina drives up with an AR-15 or whatever it was, AK-47, and shoots the place up. And then he can't find a basement where the kids are being kept as sex slaves, and he, you know, gives himself up. And then we see these emails last week about, you know, take a Viagra and then we'll go get some pizza and grape soda. Haha. It's It's nuts.

I can't believe it in some of these cases.

And the, you know, the the the code word usage. The the other thing, John, that's so sinister is it's almost like it was a giant, you know, [ __ ] you meme to everyone. like the worst sadistic kind because you have a guy emailing from account from an account called J E Vacation. Like you can't even make this up. That's like what your grandpa would make on an auto AOL account back in 1999 when he wanted to be hip and make an email.

Mhm.

You know what I mean? And they talk so flippantly, like forget the most sadistic stuff where they're talking about children and the awful things they're doing to them like that. But they talk so flippantly about the world. And it had me rethinking what George Carlin once said. I always quote it. Everyone always quotes it. It's a big club and you're not in it.

That's right.

I think we have to fix the quote.

It's a little club and you're not in it.

We didn't even realize this little club existed within the big club.

H I think that is fair.

Yeah.

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Isn't that the truth? I think he's on to something.

You know, Tucker's another guy who um has been very deliberate about all this. He was never one to jump on rumor. He was always one of the guys who demanded to see evidence before he took a position. And I think even he is shocked by what has been released. And you know there are a million other little strings that haven't been pulled yet. Don't forget there are still reportedly between three and 3.3 million documents that have not yet been released.

Yes.

That Pam Bondi has said won't be released. She's going to defy a bill passed 419 to1 in the House and 99 to nothing in the Senate and signed by the president and she's just going to say, "No, I'm not going to do what the bill commands me to do and release these documents."

Do you think she's saying that or that's coming from above her?

It has to be coming from above her. It has to be. One of these little strings that I've been trying to focus on involves uh Katherryn Remler, who was the Obama administration's uh White House counsel.

11,500 emails.

First of all, what the [ __ ] right? Like, does she do nothing all day long as the White House counsel other than chitchat with Jeffrey Epstein? Number one. Number two, there's one there's one email that she sent him saying, "John Brennan, the CIA director, gave me the CIA's highest honor today. Pretty cool, huh? Or pretty great, huh?" And then she tries repeatedly to set up a lunch between Jeffrey Epstein and John Brennan. Why? To what end? And there's a bigger question here too and that is what kind of judgment did these people exercise? We This woman is supposed to be the president's personal legal adviser, his personal attorney, and and this is what she's doing. And I I have a theory that I'm confident about. Why would she be so close to John Brennan of all people? Because every Tuesday morning at 7:00, John Brennan chaired the kill list meeting. And we know that the kill list committee was chock full of attorneys, White House, NSC, CIA, DOJ, just to make sure that yeah, you can legally go out and just kill these people this week and then we'll meet up again on Tuesday and come up with another list of people to kill. She was on the kill list committee. I'm confident of it. So, she's either murdering people or she's chitchatting with Jeffrey Epstein. Again, what kind of judgment do these people have? And then where did she go? She became the general counsel at Goldman Sachs.

That's right.

At least they had the presence of mind to say, "You got to go."

That you can't survive this.

I will say this, they should have done that a few years ago,

ages ago when it was when it was first released that she was in touch with Jeffrey Epstein. You're absolutely right.

That's right. And like you know there's just some there's there's revelations of people that had stronger relationships to the point that you know they were personally in his life. I want to come back to Rumbler in a minute because that's a big story but like Lawrence Krauss I've said this a million times sat in that chair two years ago got connected to him through someone else that was on the podcast. He's a physicist and then when he was coming in here we knew he had known Jeffrey Epstein. I asked him about it on the podcast. He was a nice enough guy. He's got 7500 emails with Jeffrey Epstein. So like I'd love to be like, you know, and and usually like I have a policy of not really talking against like people who have been in here and stuff like that. It's just like a part of the job. Let other people do that. But journalistically like you have to do this. And I I'm not planning on reaching out to Lawrence to ask him about this or whatever. But when you are coordinating with someone that much over all these years and we found out he was trying to get Jeffrey Epstein on the Joe Rogan Experience in 2017.

Oh my god.

You know, it's like, you know, bro, at that point, you know, and he said in the past, he was quoted as saying like, you know, well, I only ever saw Jeffrey around young women who were 21 or 22, so I assumed that I believed him, took him at his word when he said he was

funny because that's exactly what Peter Mandelson said until the picture was released of him in his underwear with a 16-year-old not realizing that he was being photographed.

That's right. And it's got it's it's got to be said like when you see there's other people that are in the emails where I don't really see anything and it's only a couple emails and they don't really seem to like know them well and I'm like all right it's weird but all right. But to bring it back to Kathy now, 11,500. Very interesting that you put two and two together with the kill list, which leads to my question, and again, some of this has to be theorizing, John. And I

sure

we weren't [ __ ] there, so we don't know,

right? We don't know. But do you think that Kathy, before we get to the origins of Jeffrey Epste and go through all that, do you think it was that Kathy is a rising star attorney becoming kind of like fixer, especially once she got into the Obama orbit when he gets into office? Do you think someone like that was just very clearly a target for Jeffrey and he then actually possibly befriended her and then because of the connections he had, she trusted him and with information related to things like I don't know, perhaps a kill list.

I think that's likely because if you're hearing from people like Allan Dersowitz, what a great guy Jeffrey Epstein is, right?

And you know,

I know that's your best friend. Yeah,

you love him.

Yeah, we Yeah, we really love each other. Um, again, what kind of judgment do these people have? If you're like the most important constitutional attorney in the world, then maybe you should keep your pants on probably in the presence of a 16-year-old girl.

Yeah.

You your defense that that your you kept your underwear on, that's not a defense. That's not a defense. You know, I was on the Pierce Morgan show with him, I don't know, six, eight months ago, and Pierce called it smackdown afterwards because I think I rattled him. I rattled Durowitz. He he said the most ridiculous thing. I said that I was confident that Epstein was a was a Mossad access agent. And I believe that I've been proven correct. I believe that I underestimated his contact with intelligence services. We could talk about that one. Um, but I'm I'm positive that he was an Israeli agent of some sort. And Dersowitz just jumped all over me. And then he shouted, see this is what he does. He interrupts to try to knock you off off balance. But he shouted the most ridiculous thing. And I laughed at him. He said that he was Epstein's attorney. And if Epstein was a spy for the Mossad, he could have gone to the White House and he could have gotten him a lighter sentence. And it's like, I would have hung him from a tree.

No, John, I would have hung from a tree.

That's right. That's right. Like, think going to the White House admitting that your client is spying for a foreign power on you.

Yeah.

That's going to get him leniency. I saw we can't play it because it actually has like copyrighted music in the background, but I was just looking when when right before you got here, that clip popped up in my feed of him saying that and it was actually I don't know if you noticed this cuz you were just on Zoom like going back and forth, but we can watch it afterwards and see everything.

You could tell as he was getting through it once he had said CIA or MSAD and then said I could have gone straight to the white he went like crap. Oh, whoops.

Cats out of the bag.

Yeah. Yeah. And and you just see Bass and Musef like He was good. Anyone else get that? You know what I was like, whoa.

But that's a good That's the thing, John. And I've talked about this a bunch recently. It's like you're Greek American, right? You're born You're born here.

Born here.

Mhm.

You're a dual citizen, right?

Yes.

But you're someone who served the American government until

Oh, I only became a dual citizen in 20 10.

That's right. Okay. So, you're even closer generationally. I'm like fourth generation or something like that. I'm half Italian, half Irish.

No disrespect to the Irish side. I love my Irish fans out there.

You know, I never identify with the culture. The food kind of sucks. I go out of my way to not celebrate St. Patrick's Day. It kind of is what it is. It's not a part of my family cultural history, right? And so, like, if something happened with Ireland tomorrow, I'd be like, "Wow, that's really sad, but my life would go on." On the other hand, the Italian side, that's my family culture on both sides that I have lived in the country. I have family in the country. I love that place. It's amazing.

If tomorrow though, as an Americanborn Italian, Irish American, if the American government came to me and said, "Listen, Jules, some [ __ ] went down last night and it turns out we are at war with Italy. Will you before the question comes out like will you fight for us or them?" I have on my American fatigues and AK-47 and I'm taking the nearest plane, train, or automobile to get the [ __ ] over to Italy and mow down whatever Mario and Luigi's get in my way in the wrong uniform. I'm gonna hate it. I'm going to hate it, but I'm going to do it.

Yes.

And there's a lot of people whose names ended in a vowel in 1943, whose parents didn't even speak English, who did the same thing.

Did exactly that.

And there are many American Jews who would say the same thing about America.

I take issue, it's not about the race. I take issue with anyone like an Alan Dersowitz who you know godamn well American-born dude who's made his whole life here. You know goddamn well if you ask him that question you get a blank stare and he changed the subject and you know what the answer

or even just accuse you of being an anti-semit.

That's right. I couldn't agree with you more.

Mhm. I don't trust him. I don't like him. Frankly, I don't know anybody that trusts him. He's just not the kind of guy that instills trust.

Yeah. And the thing about him that I have to give him is that ever since the Epstein story like first came out, he is one of the only people, if not maybe the only guy like from that orbit who will get in front of whatever camera is rolling to discuss the case directly. I will give him that. I will also give him that as a attorney he did represent the guy. He has a job to do there. Yeah. Whether we like it or not. But David Boyce was on uh the other he and I were both on uh Pierce the other day and he made an important point because David Boyce is one of the most important criminal defense attorneys in America and he said that Dersowitz was more than just his attorney. He was his friend and that's fine. You can be friends with with your clients, even if your clients are scumbags. But he was Epstein's publicist and that's not fine.

He was for all intents and purposes. Yeah.

Interesting.

Yeah. Did Did you happen to see Les Wexner's testimony?

I'm glad you brought that up, John.

Did Did you catch the hot mic moment? If you say more than five words, I'm gonna [ __ ] kill you.

Yes, I did catch that.

I loved it. How about the [ __ ] the re

Yeah. Uh-huh. Yeah. Boy, Les Wexner, I I would have so many questions for Less Wexner. There aren't enough hours in the day, right? What would What would be the first thing you'd ask him? What would possess you to hire a seventh grade substitute math teacher who had never finished college to be tax advisor when you are the richest man in the state of Ohio? There wasn't one person in the entire United States of America for you to hire to advise you on your taxes than a seventh grade substitute math teacher who didn't finish college unless you were also having sex with him.

Oh, I didn't see that curveball coming at the end. That kind of just hit me like

which which he has consistently denied. He has consider you see his reaction to that with his face when they did bring that up in a separate question I might add. They're like did you ever first of all he's like leaning forward like this the whole time and they're like did you ever did you ever have sexual relations with Jeffrey Epstein he's like I was like I need a body language expert on that one. I don't know.

And you know what he did according to Vanity Fair as as soon as people started asking that question he ran out and got married. The guy was, you know, well into adulthood and had never been married. And then as soon as people started saying, I wonder if le if Wes Les Wexner is gay, he ran out and got married. See, this is what's strange about that in particular. Not I can't speak for Less Wexner at all, but on the other side of the equation, because these files, to be clear, seem to show it's girls, boys, children, just in general, anything went. But on the other side of the equation, in all the testimony, witnesses, people who were around Jeffrey Epstein coming forward, I have never heard something where it involved a male, period. It was always young women.

That's right.

Or little girls, right?

So, for him to be this would be a, you know, a a a gay relationship or encounter like that. And that I mean, I guess it's totally I guess nothing's off the table. But it's a that's always been like a little bit of a red herring for me. Like I wonder if it's like Les is doing stuff with people that Jeffrey's providing and that that could very well have been it as well.

Mhm.

So you you asked that question though about why you'd hire a

Yeah.

math teacher.

Why? And you give him so much money that he ends up power attorney and and power of attorney he ends up with the widest townhouse in all of Manhattan.

You ever stood outside that place?

I went once. Yeah. It's gigantic.

Yeah, it is.

You ever see look at the Google maps and see how far it goes back?

No.

Lnick's house is like half the size.

Wow.

It's nuts. We'll get to let But this was an answer related to the first half of your question, John. So, let's let this play right here, De. Why Les Wexner hired Jeffrey Epstein?

Personal work for the Rothschild family in France. book specifically. I talked to Ellie De Rothschild and so I mentioned that earlier. Uh so he he represented their whole family. There have been a whole bunch of people many most of whom I never would have met but in New LA. He would say like I'm I'm providing uh financial advice to the founders of Google. I'm financial providing financial advice to Jeff Bezos. Which to be clear, that was that was later. That's good. That was later when he did that. That wasn't from that answer right there. But

it seemed to me when you see the full there's a full 4minute version of that as well. That what Wexner was saying, whether it's true or not is certainly a question. But what he was saying is that he was really hitting at the point that like because he personally talked to some of the members of the Rothschild family and they confirmed at the time this allegedly being in the mid to late 80s something like that right that they were in fact working with Jeffrey on whatever basis they were

bonafites. Yeah.

Yeah. So first of all do you believe that or you think there's more there?

Oh there's got to be more there. So far in this entire story, nothing has been as it seemed. Nothing. There's there's been more behind all of it, behind every revelation. And if only half of it's been released and we're flipping out over what we've seen so far, what's the other half include? You know, and why wasn't it released? Is it even worse than what we've seen? Is it just a continuation of what we've seen? I will say that there are a lot of very important people out there who have questions that need to be answered. I hate that the statute of limitations is a problem here. I hate

Is the statute a problem specifically?

A problem in that this stuff can't be prosecuted.

Which stuff?

Like child sex crimes.

Really?

Yeah. There aren't going to be any charges against anybody. They're going to be civil suits, but nobody's going to be charged with a crime. If you look at even in the UK, the UK has been very straightforward about all this. They have Mandelson now and former Prince Andrew. Andrew was charged with um with passing a document to Epstein that had to do with British uh business and trade negotiations.

Alama deal.

The Alyama deal. That's exactly right. And then Mandlesson is rumored to have given him something from the defense ministry which could be a violation of the state the official secrets act. Uh but none of this stuff has to do with sex.

We'll come back to the alley mama deal because that has to do with like the origins here. I just there is so much on the bone that like it's so hard to stay on one thing. So I apologize to people if we jump around a lot but like John knows everything about this case. So that'll happen a little bit. But let's stay with Wexner for a minute. So you'd ask him about the source of wealth. Then they have a relationship for at least 20 years. He claims that he cut him off in 2007. I don't know that I believe that.

Right.

What else would you ask him? What would be the burning or to quote Howard Lutnik, the cutting questions.

I mean, I would ask questions that I know he wouldn't answer truthfully or honestly. Like I would want rundowns of every time he went to that island. There there there's a reason why literally every room, including the bathrooms, were wired for audio and video.

Mhm.

Nobody does that.

He said he only went there once on his boat with his family on the record.

Right. I I I hope that's true. I don't believe him.

I agree. Not if you've been a not just a friend, but but a a close friend, a best friend for more than two decades. You went to the guy's house one time.

Come on.

It's like Deaf was saying with Howard Letic's answer at Congress where he's like, "I went to the island. It was only for an hour and I left with my wife, my children, and our nannies."

Yeah. Yeah. Cuz people fly all the way to the Caribbean for 1 hour.

He's like, "You couldn't say def's like you couldn't say you were there for the afternoon." Exactly. I mean, it's a [ __ ] island.

Exactly.

You know,

and that was after Lutnik denied that they were close friends.

Mhm.

That that one look at the look at Sarah Ferguson now. She's in a whole heap of trouble.

That's Prince Andrew's ex-wife.

Mhm. Well, we knew for a long time that Jeffrey was like floating her money cuz they were in debt up to their eyeballs. Right.

I have a good friend who represented her uh as as one of her attorneys and he said she was always broke. Always broke. I don't know where the money went. How can you be a member of the British royal family and be broke? I have no idea.

That whole thing's sketchy.

I mean, specifically targeting that, too. And then after he's convicted in 2007 and she says publicly that she's cut him off, then she emails him, "I'm so sorry, Jeffrey. I love you. You're the big brother I never had." And then she takes her daughters down there to visit him and then lies about it. Like what kind of hold did he have on people? I don't understand this. Do you think I I don't think this for a second, but I have to ask this just so you can at least respond. Do you think some of these people might have actually believed him at his word that he's like, "Yeah, I accidentally ordered a 17year-old. I thought thought you was 21." Do you think it's even possible that they would have believed it?

I think it's possible that they wanted to believe it and then allowed themselves to believe it.

Deep down, no. Unless you're deaf, dumb, and blind.

Yep.

Uh I can't imagine. No. Plus, you know, it's not like people don't talk. I mean, even Trump said back in the day, Jeffrey likes him young. Too young for my taste.

Yeah. Mhm. A lot of people said there's there's even emails, I'm trying to remember who it was with, maybe it was actually with Mandlesson, but don't quote me on that, where they're going back and forth and Jeffrey says, "Take a picture of of you and and send me a picture of you and the little girl or something like that." And the guy goes like, "Haha, yeah, sure." Yeah. Yeah. I I interviewed a member of the British Parliament a couple days ago for my my own podcast and um and he said this is enough to bring down the British government.

Yep.

Yeah. Like judgment. What kind of judgment do you people have? And look, Mandlesen has always been a scumbag, right? Everybody knew he was a crook. He had been credibly accused of, you know, embezzlement and extortion. He's he's just a crook. they're out there in politics. And so when word surfaced that he was close to Jeffrey Epstein and you know he he had already had to be removed as business minister and from another couple of u senior positions in the in the British Labor Party. He swore to Kier Starmer the now the prime minister of the UK. He swore to him that he barely knew Epstein. They had met once or twice. There was nothing to these rumors. And then the emails are released, including the photo of him with a 16-year-old girl standing in his underwear. They're both looking at a laptop, so it's clear he does not realize he's being photographed. And um and then he had to admit that, okay, all right, you caught me. So he's resigned from the House of Lords. He's been thrown out of the Labor Party. But people aren't just angry at Mandelen. And also he was recalled as the British ambassador to the United States. He's no longer the ambassador. They're not angry just at Mandlesen. They're angry at the prime minister because what kind of judgment do you have when everybody in the country knew this guy was a scumbag, but because he looked you in the eye and he smiled at you and said, "Oh, no, no, prime minister. It's not true. None of it's true." And then your reaction is, "Okay, I'm going to make you ambassador to the United States of America." What goes through their minds? So this Kierst Starmer may not last as long as Liz Truss's head of cabbage. This is This is bad. Already see the meme on that one.

Yeah. So, you're also tying into directly what Ro Kana said as well. And one thing I like about Massie and Roana is their delivery is the same with the exception of I've never seen Massie get worked up like he did at Pam Bondi. And I

he rarely gets worked up.

But he genuinely dislikes Pam Bondi.

Oh yeah, she's a liar.

But Roana will just like these two guys, Massie and Roana, will just like deliver this line about the Epstein files. It's like, wait, I'm sorry. What the [ __ ] did you just say? And it's like, yeah, so uh we found this and there it is. All right, have a good one. They walk out. So Ro kind of comes out maybe like two 3 weeks ago and he had just walked out of the DOJ where they he got to see some of the stuff that they haven't released. And he was like, "Yeah, so the files show that this poses an existential risk for the entire monarchy system in the UK and then therefore across Europe because they're all [ __ ] related."

Yes.

Literally.

Which, you know, John, I obviously we kind of fought a war about that here like 250 years ago. I'm not a huge fan of monarchies. I wouldn't shed a tear about it.

I put a laughing emoji every time the crown prince of Greece posts something on Facebook.

I like that. Yeah. Crown Prince of Greece. You're not even Greek. You're Danish. How dare you. Shut up, Malaka. Get out of here. I like that. You got to I'll retweet that when you do it. Let me know when you do it.

But it's like the other problem with this, and maybe I'm like overthinking this a little bit, but these systems are so entrenched. Yes. where from a backdoor economics perspective, whether it be real estate holdings, financial holdings, uh, funnels of money, things like that, if it all came down at once.

It could crash the whole system.

Yes, that's real.

Yeah. Um, I was watching BBC this morning, as a matter of fact, and they said as recently as three years ago, 80% of the British people support the monarchy. Today, 50% of the British people support the monarchy.

This is they're at a tipping point. And if the Brits go, everybody else is going to go, too. Look at Norway. Who ever even heard of the Norwegian royal family? But now you got ties to Epstein. You got the crown prince's or crown princess's soning two women. Now he's got to go on trial. What kind of people are these? Like, is it really worth it to to prop up these phonies as your as your monarchs?

No, I don't think so.

Of course, it's that's not the question here. That's not the question. It's like like if I were just responding with my anger, I'd want the entire system, we're not just talking monarchies, to just [ __ ] get a reset button. That's right.

Right.

But I also know how much that would affect all of us if it all happened all at once. And so that's the strange dance in trying to go through this case. How do you find a way to go in with the raid, right, and hit all the cockroaches, right? But not, you know, accidentally sprayed in grandma's mouth at the same time.

And and this is where you run into that problem of statutes of limitations again.

Because it would be far easier if you could just prosecute these people, right? and and show the people of every one of these countries involved that it doesn't matter how famous you are or how important you are, we're all equal under the law. And that's just not going to be the case here.

All these famous rich people, they're all going to get away with it.

It's sick.

You don't think anyone in the US will go to prison for this?

I don't. You know, I was talking to an a constitutional attorney about this and he said the only way that this that a prosecution could go forward is if the Justice Department could successfully argue that the cover up of the original crime continued and constituted a conspiracy. So, you couldn't be you couldn't be prosecuted necessarily for the crime itself. you would be prosecuted for conspiracy to commit the crime. But he said even that is a stretch. What if with statutes of limitations though? What about all the stuff we're seeing like in this latest trunch where these things are occurring a lot of it between 2011 and 2019? I would think there's not as if if if you were doing cannibal acts on kids in 2015 like we would be able to prosecute that in some cases on the on the sex cases the statute is 5 years and so we've missed it which you know what may have been a part of the plan why didn't Joe [ __ ] Biden release all this information thank you every administration I would argue since Clinton has covered this up and that's the thing absolutely yes right you have Trump in office right now and there's a massive cover up happening and it should be called out. We will call it out. It is what it is. We'll talk about that more. But every administration RD red and blue has had a chance to put this out. So all these Democrats who are suddenly just jumping on the train here because they can, right? And they can read a question their intern gave them that's an easy slam dunk because they covered this up. It's like I have no energy for those people either. This is this is a systemic problem that has happened to where you're just at a point now where the Democrats are like, "Well, the Clintons are so far past time and they're so old and you know, like we now we can throw them under the bus. They ain't like that no more."

Nobody cares anymore,

right?

Uhhuh.

But what about the victims then?

What they how does that benefit the victims in any way? And why why you finally get to depose Les Waxner, which how about the fact he was listed as a co-conspirator in the documents?

See, we never knew that.

And he's never been interviewed.

Never. Like, where was the FBI all these

years? And another thing, too, and this this goes back to the very basis of this case, Epstein got a sweetheart deal in 2006, right? And the US attorney for the the uh whatever it was the southern district the central district of Florida whatever it was I guess it was the central district um has said this is Aosta who became labor secretary in Trump's first term said that he was ordered to give this this sweetheart deal, okay? So where do orders come? Who who's the only person in in the in the system there who can order a US attorney to do something? That's the attorney general. Well, the attorney general was Alberto Gonzalez, who didn't brush his hair in the morning without permission from the president or the vice president, right? He was like legendary for his powerlessness and ill suiting for the uh for the position. So, was it Bush? Was it Cheney? Who was it that was close enough to Epstein that he would want to swoop in and save Epstein by giving him this sweetheart deal? Nobody has ever answered that question. And Aosta apparently genuinely doesn't know the answer. His order came down from the attorney general.

>> I think I believe him on that.

>> I do too. I believe him.

>> Cuz he said he I was told he belonged to intelligence.

>> Intelligence. That's the line.

>> That was the word. He belonged to intelligence. Well, this gets into that super government kind of thing, cuz it's like you say, Bush and Cheney, which makes a lot of sense to me, but now like my whole worldview is just like, oh yeah, it's ridiculous. You know, I used to I used to just piss all over people's analysis when they would start talking about the Trilateral Commission and Bilderberg and the Shangri-La Conference. And then somebody to whom I used to be very close used to used to and about whom a court order exists saying I cannot talk about her um in any public forum. She went to one of those events. She was invited because she rose up high enough in the corporate structure that she went. And I I couldn't wait to hear what was it like. And she said, "It's a lot of really rich, really important people talking about arms deals."

>> Arms deals.

>> And she said, "Except for except for Davos." She went to Davos and she said, "That's where they were all talking about how to manage the global economy." And I said, "So, so all that shit's true that they're the ones that sort of set the policy?" And she said, "Yeah, I saw it with my own eyes."

>> I >> but I'm I'm not >> Can you get me a pen >> allowed to identify who that person is nor it's on it's on the counter out there.

>> Usually I I've never needed that before, but I I may need that today after after hearing that. All right. So the Trilateral Commission for people out there who are unfamiliar. This is something that's been written about a lot in the past and once again it's something that's always written off like, oh god, this is where >> another conspiracy theory. Well, >> but it's not. Go so fast. >> It's all it's a real thing. >> It is. They even have a website. >> They have a website. >> We pull up the Trilateral Commission >> and and Bilderberg. They list all the people that attend this but by name, all these people and you'll recognize 80% of Oh man.

>> Well, I mean, I guess that's hiding in plain sight, but it's something where I I guess what I should say is the connotation of it was where the conspiracy theorists would be saying something and people would be like, "No, it's just this group. It's the It's David Rockefeller." Like, >> I know, right? >> Arand Rothschild, you know? And yeah, listen, they we put Clinton on it. He was he was bored after he left office, you know. And then you get Epstein in this this sit down with Steve Bannon. We we will talk about him, but you get Epstein saying, "Yeah, I was on the uh Trilateral Commission and here's how I got." And he makes it sound so simple.

>> Yeah. Right.

>> I'm like, "How do you even get there, buddy? You're a kid from Coney Island."

>> Yeah. Somebody taps you on the shoulder. Next thing you know, you're getting an email.

>> Dave, can you put the camera on, John?

>> Yeah. I I see what you're reading.

>> Son of a [ __ ] Really? I knew it. But really?

>> Yeah. It was very >> How she get in there? God damn it.

>> It was very disappointing to me.

>> You can't talk about that by court order.

>> No, sir.

>> Yeah. I already didn't like her. Now I really don't like her. But wow. Wow.

>> Yeah. This is the life I've given myself. And I'm just Yeah.

>> Yeah. This is the life I've given myself.

>> Okay. So, back to the Oh, wait. Sweetheart deal because we were talking about where that would come from. You know, I'm trying to not let my brain run too wild with now every possible answer is all over here and it's all like absolutely the worst thing ever. But clearly some of the answers are there. So >> without getting to his origin story yet because that's again we're going to do that. But you talk about at the Trilateral Commission they are going over arms deals and everything and now this is entering your world of things that you have witnessed around the world and how [ __ ] works. What is it about arms deals that would make it the number one priority for the quote unquote Illuminati of the world?

>> Of of the Pentagon's $1 trillion budget, fully a third goes to weapons and weapons systems, right? That's just for us.

>> So couple that with what we're able to sell to other countries whose leaders are at these conferences. I mean, that we're talking about, you know, probably a majority of the American economy year after year after year. It's how we employ Americans. I read something recently. Oh, the Washington Post, the New York Times, that the Pentagon has assiduously placed manufacturers, or I shouldn't say placed manufacturers, they have placed orders with manufacturers in literally every one of the 435 congressional districts. So literally every single member of Congress has constituents who are dependent on the defense economy, on the defense budget. And so there's no incentive for any member of Congress to vote no on DoD.

>> And also paid by all those companies.

>> Yeah, sure. I mean, it costs what, five, eight, 10, 20 million dollars to run for Congress. Every two years, that money's got to come from somewhere. So, it comes from Defense Department PACs.

>> They buy them off on the micro and then it wins them the macro when you put the numbers together. Yeah. Def, what you pull up here?

>> Just confirm.

>> All right. So, the Washington Post reports that the Pentagon structurally distributes manufacturing and contracting across almost every congressional district to secure broad local political support, making budget cuts difficult. The strategy embeds defense spending into the local economy with analysis showing that despite a high concentration of funds among top contractors, the broader supply chain is deeply embedded in domestic districts.

>> Yeah.

>> A friend of mine um has a little kind of little mom and pop manufacturing plant in Beaver County, Pennsylvania.

>> Aritine International.

>> No, no, no. It's a little just a little place you've never heard of.

>> Got it. And he mentioned something to me one time. Oh, this is probably five years ago. He mentioned that he is entirely dependent on the Pentagon. And I was like, "The Pentagon?" I said, "For what?" Oh, I can't tell you. He said, "It's a classified program." I said, "Seriously, George?" Like, I thought he was making, you know, heels for shoes or something. I didn't know what he was making. And then later on he told me like, "No, it's this little widget that fits inside, you know, the the motor for a, you know, Patriot missile or something like that."

>> Nice.

>> And he's like, "In in Beaver County." And he's like, "Yeah." And then when I saw that report in the Washington Post, I was like, "Oh, of course it all makes sense." H what percentage of the Trilateral Commission if you had to broadly guess do you think is influenced by bankers around the world?

>> Oh, all of it.

>> Yeah.

>> Okay. Sure.

>> The reason I asked that is because again, I I love this supra term that Tucker came up with because I think it's a great visual. Right. So presidents of the power countries around the world, the ones that actually matter at the UN, right? So think like US, China, Russia.

>> And then you know the people below them too. But >> above that you got let's say the fixer class like the Epsteines of the world who really hold the power to pull the strings on the peasante right here who are the presidents and kings and all that [ __ ].

>> And then above that you have the people who finance them. And the people who finance them as bankers. If you want to look at this this way, and it's fair to do it right now, look at things like financing wars to make money and profit off death, which also we could even get into the conversation of them trying to manage population control and doing so. Is that a ridiculous statement?

>> I think that's a conversation that ought to be out there. Yeah. For the >> What makes you think we should have that conversation? Like what kinds of things that you've heard?

>> Population control and even the reverse of that is something that is now making headlines. I read an article just in the past week or two that China likely does not have 1.1 billion people, that they've consistently lied about their population and that they probably have something closer to 650 million or 700 million people, but they want the rest of the world to believe that they have all these people because it makes it makes the case for these strong economic numbers that they're always putting out, which also are probably not true. Um, a country like Greece, Greece is in trouble because Greece went through this very long-term economic um, it was a depression. It wasn't even a recession. It was a depression. And so much of the educated middle class, doctors, lawyers, engineers, businessmen, they just left. They went to the US, the UK, Australia, Canada, Germany. And so there almost is no middle class or no upper middle class in Greece. It just left. Well, the economy then is unsustainable because there's nobody there to create jobs. There was a there was a piece oh years ago um in the Washington Post saying if you look at the shrinkage in Russia's population, if it keeps declining at its current rate, you're going to like this. In 150 years, there won't be any Russians. They just won't exist anymore. What's the State Department going to do that thing to call out? Then what do you do? Now, of course, immigration changes that that calculus, but you know, we're talking about the the possible um what's what's the word? Uh the possibility that countries just can no longer remain viable as countries without real population changes.

>> I told you about my encounter with David Rockefeller, did I not?

>> You did not tell me about that.

>> No. I was I was working in Bahrain in the American embassy. I was the economic officer and I was a longtime subscriber to this wonderful magazine called Art News Magazine. And I read this article about David Rockefeller being given this major like art world award for the work that he's done over the course of, you know, 75 years or whatever it was for art in New York. And then we get a cable from the State Department saying that David Rockefeller is coming to Bahrain because he's being given an award by the Bahraini American Bankers Association and the ambassador comes into my office, David Ransom, wonderful, wonderful ambassador, lovely human being, one of the best bosses I ever had. And he said, "Hey, uh, we got a cable from from State saying that David Rockefeller is coming out to Bahrain. He's going to collect this award from the bankers association." I said, "The banker's association?" And he said, "Yeah, I want you to be his control officer." I said, "I'd love to be his control officer." What that means is you arrange the car, you arrange the the hotel, you make sure he gets from point A to point B and just make sure there are no problems. If he wants to go shopping, you take him shopping, you do anything he wants. I welcomed it. Well, as soon as the Bahrainis heard that David Rockefeller was coming, his highness the Amir announces we're going to do a state dinner, right? So, the entire cabinet, the entire royal family, the entire diplomatic corps, all the ambassadors, all the accredited diplomats, this is a major event, like the biggest social event of the year. It's it's at his main palace. There like 500 people there. So I go and I was saving my congrat See, I thought I was very clever. I was just a stupid kid. So I I saved my my congratulations for his award for the receiving line. So I said to the Amir, it's such a pleasure to see you, your highness. And I said to the prime minister, we didn't like each other very much. Like, you know, hello.

>> Hello.

>> Hello. He would always say hello Kiryaku. Yeah. And then he would kind of stare at me.

>> You're like the spy version of a VEEP episode. I don't know if anyone ever told you that, but

>> And then it comes David Rockefeller and I said, "Mr. Rockefeller, I wanted to congratulate you on your, you know, whatever it was called award." Oh, he lights up. Thank you so much. I'm so proud of that award, the Guggenheim and the madness. And then I, you know, go and then the next night he collects his award from the bankers association and he leaves. So we had a 9:00 meeting in the embassy every day. It was, you know, the ambassador, the deputy chief of mission and and the heads of all the departments. So I'm in there in the morning meeting and the ambassador says, "So the Rockefeller visit went very well." And I said, cuz I'm an idiot, I said, "Why would a guy who's almost a hundred years old fly halfway around the world to collect a little trophy from some bankers that he's never met before?" And the ambassador goes like this. He goes, "John, John, you're supposed to be the smart one." He says, I said, "What? What am I missing?" He's like, "He didn't come for the banker's award. That was his cover stuff." And I said, "So what was he doing here?" He said, "David Rockefeller is the secret back channel to Saddam Hussein. He came here to make it look like he had business in the Middle East. We put him on a military transport this morning and sent him to Baghdad to tell Saddam Hussein to cut it out or you're going to get a bomb up your ass." And then he flew back from Baghdad. And I was like, man, I I have a lot to learn.

>> Wow. That that didn't impact your worldview a little bit.

>> Oh yeah, it sure did.

>> Like things are not what they seem.

>> Might be an inappropriate thing to say these days, but that's like a Jay-Z line.

>> We got Rockefeller out there with Saddam.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah, that's uh

>> I'm friendly with his daughter now and she uh

>> Rockefeller.

>> Yeah, Abby Rockefeller. She's very very sweet. No, no, no. She's a communist and uh yeah, Abby's great. She she went to Harvard in the 60s and became a communist and rebelled against her family and she gives all of her money to leftwing >> Oh my god.

>> charities and and concerns. She's fantastic.

>> That's too good.

>> Keep going. I'm sorry.

>> No, I I mentioned the story to her and she said, "Yeah, that sounds exactly like something my dad would do." Yeah. What do I know?

>> Yeah. I guess. Well, she went the opposite way. Give her that, I guess. But how'd you become friends with her?

>> I'm on the board of Covert Action Magazine and uh and she's a supporter of the magazine.

>> No kidding. That's not Covert Action Magazine. That doesn't sound sketchy at all.

>> It was founded by Philip Agee who uh the CIA tried to assassinate for decades. He was a CIA case officer who saw what covert actions were were doing to innocent people in Latin America in the late 60s. And so he went public and wrote a book called Inside the Company. And as an appendix at the back of the book, he listed the names of every CIA officer he ever encountered and outed everybody and then took off for Cuba. And uh the CIA hunted him down from country to country to country. They finally gave up. He died in Cuba. I don't know 10 years ago, 20 years ago. And um his son has kept the magazine going. And and the co-founder of the magazine, Lou Wolf. Shout out to Lou, who's now like 87 or 88 years old. He's a good friend of mine. Um, this was Lou's baby with Philip Agee. And and the magazine still it's still a monthly concern. I write for it every month.

>> Do you think we have so many examples of where covert actions were just taken for like imperialism purposes or just because we felt like overthrowing?

>> There's actually a Wikipedia page.

>> Let's pull it up.

>> Yeah. CIA covert action. Wikipedia. The first one was the uh 1949 Italian election, >> right? With the communists. And there was a deleted scene in The Godfather that Francis Coppola put in there where Michael's walking in the fields with Fabrizo. Yeah. And he sees in the in the hillsides at Corleone >> and he sees the the red like little army of you know communist supporters right there and he's like whatever and Fabrizo is like >> and that was right around the it's taking place right around the time where that was going to be a thing where they were going to come in and take over the power vacuum post Mussolini with the opposite side and then CIA is like >> no no you don't that that covert action operation. It was the first one and it's been declassified by the CIA. Um, it was very simple. They gave $150,000 in cash to the Christian Democratic Party, which was the conservative party. It was behind the Communists in the polls.

>> They were going to lose the election. The Communists were going to win. You can't have a Communist government in Western Europe, right? That's just for the East Eastern Party of Europe.

>> And so what they did is they used that money to bribe um journalists to write pro-conservative articles in the run-up to the election and they were able to swing just enough votes that the conservatives won.

>> And it was only 150 grand.

>> Yeah, it was the first one.

>> So >> that was a lot of money in the 40s though.

>> I know. But for the whole party for a bunch of journalists, I mean I'm splitting up that pie. It's getting smaller. And you think like Don Corleone was taking a baseball bat to people too?

>> Well, I mean, think of it this way, too. If you're a journalist and you're asked to write 500 words, that's probably worth $500 in 1949 money. I mean, if that's what you get paid today, that was a lot of money in 194.

>> Yeah. But if I'm going to swing an election, you got to add a zero to that.

>> Yeah, maybe.

>> Yeah. So, you you're >> All right. So, we're looking at this Wikipedia page. Everyone else can pull this up, too. And it's funny because Wikipedia is run by the CIA, and they can't even stop this article from happening. Well, oftentimes the CIA gets outed. Um, when people look at the um at the ISP information for the editors, it oftentimes goes back to Langley.

>> They're that dumb. Come on.

>> Yeah. They're that dumb. Really? Yeah. Yeah. I remember in my own case, we we asked um we asked for something in discovery. I don't remember what it was. And it was we were we were having a meeting, all the attorneys, I had 11 attorneys. And um one of them said, "Hey, we should ask for X." And uh one of the other attorneys said, "Oh, come on. They're not that stupid." And he said, "No, actually they are that stupid." And sure enough, they had [ __ ] it up. And um and they ended up having to drop three charges >> just because of that.

>> Huh?

>> They're arrogant.

>> Yeah. They think they're smarter than everybody else is, that they don't make mistakes, or even if they do make mistakes, you're not smart enough to figure out that they've made a mistake. And that's just simply not true.

>> But it's also like John, they have a VC arm, as we've outlined before, everyone outlines it inel >> and they admit who they invest. Oh yeah, we threw money in Palantir in. And now look at Palantir, billions in revenue.

>> And it's like, that's where sometimes I wonder. Yes, I hear you. There's hubris there. There's [ __ ] you. We can do what we want. We're seeing that play out on a massive scale right now. But sometimes I wonder if there's >> if I'm crazy to wonder it too, if there's like a 5D chess thing here where people are like, we know some of this [ __ ] will come out and that's what we want to happen because we want society to flip the [ __ ] out.

>> Sure. That happens. That that happens sometimes.

>> Yeah. And it could have happened with things that not even related to your case, but that CIA might do as it relates to Wikipedia where they're like, "Yeah, people will flip out about this by 2025 after 2026 after we do that whole pandemic thing."

>> Right. Exactly.

>> Oh, exactly.

>> I mean, as an example, sure, why not hypothetically?

>> Hypothetically, sure.

>> Okay.

>> Sure. And another thing too is if you throw, you know, so many of these ideas for operations out there or these little mini operations, there's some that are just going to, you know, not come to people's attention. They're not going to realize that it's a some sort of a covert action operation or disinformation operation.

>> A disinformation. See, that's the big one now today.

>> You don't know who's behind keyboards anywhere, right? We do it to a ton of people.

>> You don't. Even even the people who are supposed to be the good guys, you can't trust. I've told you this before. I've got this buddy, Jason Leupold. He's at Bloomberg. Jason is one of the best investigative journalists I've ever encountered in my life. And honest honest as the day is long, he um he's the FOIA king. He's filed more Freedom of Information Act requests than anybody else in the history of the Freedom of Information Act. To the point where George W. Bush's Pentagon spokesman called him a FOIA terrorist on the record. Called him a FOIA terrorist. It was Jason that broke the Hillary Clinton email uh scandal.

>> Whoa. I didn't know that.

>> Through a FOIA request.

>> He got that through a FOIA. That's it.

>> So he told me, this is about 10 years ago. He told me that he was bored one one week over Christmas break. He was bored. So he just filed a FOIA request. He had nothing else to do.

>> Yeah, that's right.

>> And he asks for all communications between the CIA and all journalists. Period.

>> Anything >> for for this period? No. No. For this this period of whatever it was, a year I think is what it was.

>> And you know the CIA never ever ever answers FOIA requests. They say, "Oh, they send you a letter saying, 'Okay, thank you. It's it's in Q.'" Well, I filed a FOIA request 15 years ago. I'm still waiting.

>> What's the legality of that, though?

>> They have 60 days. So, what happens is when day 60 comes, you have to sue them. And you will always win. And because the law is clear, they have 60 days. You will always win. And the judge will always make them pay your legal fees >> because you because you won.

>> But Uh-uh. He wins every single time.

>> So, they do give it to him.

>> Yeah, they have to.

>> Why haven't you gotten yours? It's been >> because I haven't sued them.

>> I don't I don't care anymore.

>> I I I wanted to write an article about >> Start a GoFundMe so John can sue these guys. I I wanted to write an article about um a guy who I I think was probably a CIA officer in the early 50s and he became a um science fiction author and then he had a mental breakdown and committed suicide and I think he was one of the MK Ultra victims.

>> Do you want to say who this is or >> You know what to tell you the honest to God's truth, I don't remember his name anymore. It's been so many years. I'm sure I still have the FOIA request. The way that started, I was worried you were gonna say L. Ron Hubbard.

>> No name for like, oh [ __ ]

>> No. I don't want to poke that hornet's nest. I have enough problems in my life. Thank you. And take on the Church of Scientology.

>> No way. So anyway, um he files this FOIA request at Christmas. This is like Christmas of 2015 maybe. And they don't respond. So he sues them. He used the same attorney every time, Jeffrey Light, who's now retired. Jeffrey never ever ever lost a FOIA case. And so finally, they just give him this dump and he found several things that were fascinating. One, Kendall Kallen, formerly of the Los Angeles Times, now the chief intelligence correspondent, chief national security correspondent for NBC News and MSNBC. Okay. He was writing articles and then sending them to the C to the CIA for clearance before he sent them to his own editors. Is it okay, guys, if I write this about you? Because if it's not okay, just tell me and I'll I'll kill it.

>> Oh, no.

>> Yeah. Number one, scandalous. He should have resigned.

>> Yeah. Number two, um there was this young, unknown, hungry independent journalist who actually stumbled on a story and he's like, "Hey, I found this information and I'm writing this article. It's going to go out tomorrow. Would you care to comment?" And they wrote back to him and they said, "So help us God. If you publish this, you will never be invited to the Christmas party ever again, and we will never give you an off-the-record briefing. You're going to be banned."

>> Oh, and he killed his own article. You know, people say all the time, "Oh, Operation, you know, Grasshopper, whatever it was called, uh, paper, not Paperclip. What was the one that where they were recruiting journalists?" Operation >> Oh my god.

>> Whatever.

>> Not Midnight Climax. No, that that was part of MK Ultra.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> Chick looked that up. Beef Mark Gagna and I talked about that in September 2024 on his show. I remember that, but I can't remember the name.

>> Mockingbird. Thank you. Operation Mockingbird. People are like, "Well, you know, Operation Mockingbird." They don't need Operation Mockingbird anymore.

>> They just threaten you and and tell you you're not invited to the Christmas party. They don't need to recruit people anymore.

>> It's access journalism.

>> That's exactly what it is. And it's it's a result of the demise of investigative journalism. Very very few outlets anywhere in America have budgets for investigative journalism anymore. I have I can't say that I've had people like from intelligence or something call up and try to get you to do stuff. But I've had some weird calls from normal people with normal jobs, you know, let's say in like middleman type things where they're trying to anchor you to ideas and stories and certain people and stuff like that. I've dealt with it a lot and it to me immediately blinks off as like audience capture,

>> right? And almost all the time, these are things that if I did it, not every time, but a lot of the times, if I did it, we'd make a lot of money.

>> Yeah.

>> A lot of money. There was I I won't say what it was, but there were back-to-back days >> a couple months ago where I was offered whale and whale.

>> These are episodes that would do they would pay my bills for seven, eight months. And I could not have said no fast enough.

>> Good for you.

>> Because I know algorithmically what it would also do.

>> And that's what they do. They want to get people they whoever the [ __ ] they are cuz it's someone who's below >> and you'll never figure out who they are.

>> They want to influence people to get just certain things in the algorithm at all times so that their income becomes tethered to that. And that's a really dangerous thing. I've said to people before, I know I knew the system probably enough by March or April 2022 >> that I won't get into details, but if I wanted to have eight or nine million subscribers today, I could have done it.

>> I have 1.13,

>> which is also incredible.

>> Thank you. I would love to be able to have more money to put into this though and really be able to build it out and I can't do that. But I've kept my principles intact in doing that because to get to that eight or nine, you are selling your soul. There is absolutely no middle ground. There is no gray area. I know exactly what it was and it's like do it or don't, but that's an easy call for me.

>> Yeah, I have to agree with you. If you don't have your self-respect and independence, then what do you have?

>> Yeah. Now, there's another side to what you're saying though about the journalist though that gets really weird. And a mutual friend of ours, Joby Warrick, has talked about this openly.

>> And Joby Job's like the guiding light on this issue. Yeah.

>> And he's very diplomatic.

>> One of the most diplomatic people I've ever met in my life. So Job's been the national security reporter >> forever >> forever at the Washington Post. He's got two Pulitzers >> and >> and and he's an incredible author. Like his books just rocket straight to number one on the New York Times bestsellers list and they're incredibly researched.

>> They're so well done. But love the guy and the very first time I ever talked with him on episode 134, he he was going through it and then talked about it with me off camera. He said, "There's a really tough thing." He's like, I've got sources in intelligence that I'm really good friends with and stuff. And that's like, then are they telling you the truth? Are they using the friendship? But then also, he goes, you'll write a story and as a journalist, you have to go to the people involved with the story and offer a chance to comment before it gets published. And he'll get a call from CIA with his editor in the room right there or NSA or whoever and say if you publish this X number of people will die next year. They always say that, right?

>> And he said, "We legit have to go into a conference room and basically play like blind, you know, monkeys throwing darts at the board to see if this is one of those where they're lying or not."

>> It's absolutely true. Yes. And if it's really really sensitive, you'll get a call from the national security advisor above the CIA director.

>> Shouldn't that set off a lot of alarm bells though?

>> Definitely. What is the line there? Like if you let's say there is one and for real 150 people, whoever they are, are going to die from it. But >> There's no easy answer. I I will say though that they they throw that whole blood on your hands argument at people all the time. Tom Drake tells this fantastic story. Tom Drake, the NSA whistleblower. Um Tom Tom is the one who who first told us that NSA was spying on Americans after 9/11. They were just waiting for 9/11 to happen so that they could spy on Americans, which is what they did and they continued to do 25 years later. So Tom was charged with nine felonies, including seven counts of espionage and two counts of theft of government property, which was the information. He walked out of the building with the information in his head and they charged him with theft.

>> Thought crime.

>> Yeah. So to make a long story short, the entire case fell apart and all of the charges were thrown out. But he went to a proffer meeting at the Justice Department where they say, "Here's the information we have against you, and here's the sentence we're going to ask for when we convict you, unless you want to confess. Tell us some answers to questions we may have, and then we can talk about a slightly lighter sentence." So, he was looking at it was like 55 years. It was I think it was 55 years. It was a long time. And um and they said, "You have the blood of dozens of American soldiers on your hands." And to his credit, he says, "Name one, one single soldier who died because I said NSA was spying on Americans. Name one and I'll take a guilty plea. Name him." And then they backed off. And then later on after the the case was thrown out, um they left the accusations against him on the NSA and the DOJ websites, but they took out the slide where they accused him of having the blood of American soldiers on his hands. They just make that [ __ ] up and throw it at you to scare you. They do it all the time.

>> They even did it with Maduro.

>> Yeah.

>> Who's a bad guy.

>> Yeah, sure. Remember the cartel de los that that got removed from the indictment the minute he touched down over here on 30th Street >> never existed.

>> There's I don't I forget the term for it off the top of my head. Maybe if I describe it right, you can look it up, de but like the h it's like obfuscation by over stimulation like providing way too much information that people are like I ain't reading all that that you can just kind of like >> poke in little things documents. Yes, exactly. I love the transition that you were catching on to there, >> John, because as you said correctly, it's and we should go back to that now because that's why people are here. But as you said very correctly, there's another two and a half to three million documents. I've heard varying numbers on that. Correct me in the comments, people that they have now said we're never going to release. And people like Tim Ballard have come out and said who's seen some of these documents has come out and said things like this includes cannibalism.

>> Yeah.

>> And stuff like that. And you have to wonder when you think about let's say a report that Marjorie Taylor Greene has relayed about her conversation with Donald Trump on this to where he said this is going to hurt a lot of my friends if it comes out. You have to wonder what types of friends are being protected obviously. And then furthermore, why the [ __ ] are you friends with these people? If these are the things they do cuz to me it's like I don't want the president to be a pedophile or associated with that stuff. [ __ ] I want to believe he's not. But they fired Joe Paterno in two days for covering up one guy in 2002. The guy had the [ __ ] stadium named after him at Penn State. This is the president of the United States who along again and I will say this along with every administration before him. Name them. Clinton, Obama, Bush, Biden, Trump won, all of them, they've all covered this up and it's the most massive pedophilia and many other things scandal. We we'll talk about the national security in a minute that we've ever seen. What does that say about him?

>> A lot. Unfortunately, and I I'll add something to that, there's an internal Bureau of Prisons rule at DOJ that anybody convicted of a child sex crime is forbidden from serving his or her sentence in a in a minimum security work camp.

>> Mhm.

>> Can't do it. They also don't serve their sentences in maximum security penitentiaries or medium security prisons because they'll be killed there. Right. Everybody beats on pedophiles in prison. So all of the pedophiles go to low security prisons. So there's still, you know, the double concertina wire and the controlled movements and all that stuff. But in a minimum, you're free to just come and go as you please. There are no lock doors. There are no bars in the windows. Most everybody works in town, you know, as a janitor or a gardener.

>> Pedophiles are working in town. They're not supposed to be because there aren't supposed to be any pedophiles in the minimum security work camps. But that's where Ghislaine Maxwell was sent. Minimum security work. She's the only pedophile in the entire federal prison system who's in a minimum security work camp. And she was transferred there by the president. Why? Why would he do something like that?

>> I sent you an article before this, Steve. There were a few in the text. I don't know if you can pull it up, but it was the guy talking about the three reports related to Maxwell and Trump. If you just go through our text chain, it's somewhere in there. But what Def will get it in a sec cuz I I sent D like 15 things right before we went on. But you have to wonder. I mean, this is a lady who's pictured at the Clintons' daughter's funeral leaning over the edge. This is a lady who's pictured with every master of the universe. This is a lady who's directly tied to the royal family, whose father is at the center of this whole thing, who knew Donald Trump for 30 like they know she knew everybody. So, what does she have on him? Like, maybe here's a good way to start it. Do you see any scenario where Jeffrey Epstein as a spy, which he definitely was a spy, was not prioritizing blackmail as a means to get whatever it is he needed to get?

>> He had to have been.

>> I mean, what's the point of running the operation if it's not to collect compromat? You know, one one of the things that I learned very early on at the CIA was um we really really didn't like to squeeze people, right, with you know, surreptitiously taken photographs of them with prostitutes or, you know, you want you want to recruit somebody based on a a friendly relationship. You want them to do it because they like you and they trust you. They're probably doing it for the money,

>> right? But you don't want to threaten people. The Russians do that. The Israelis also do that. And so from the very beginning, I thought that this this was a part of the whole Epstein saga.

>> It was about blackmail. It had to have been. I don't understand it otherwise. I don't understand what the draw. First of all, he's a creepy looking guy.

>> Yeah.

>> He's He's naked half the time apparently. Mhm.

>> Virginia Giuffre said he had a deformed penis that looked like an egg.

>> Mhm.

>> So, what's this guy have going for him besides money? But they all have money. So, what's the difference? See, now I want to say something serious, but making me laugh. So, I had an Epstein victim sitting in that chair the other day, and this part's not funny, but the thing that really struck me in what she was saying, and that episode will come out after this one, by the way, people, and it'll be two episodes, was how brilliant of a manipulator he was.

>> Oh, that's interesting.

>> And that's what he had going for him. And I'm going to give you an example on this that she would say he would call her up cuz she was a model and set an actress and set her up with meetings in Hollywood, New York, wherever that he's not going to be at was someone powerful that he knew. And the idea is that she's going to get >> at these meetings.

>> Oh my god.

>> And she would go to them and most of the time nothing would happen. But he would call her after every single one. Now, when she brought this up an hour earlier, I had asked her the question. I'd said, "Do you think that like we don't know much about Jeffrey Epstein's childhood? We know he had parents. We know he had a brother, grew up in Coney Island, but we don't know what was going on when Jeffrey Epstein was 9 years old. So, it's possible he's a monster that was abused as a child."

>> Certainly possible. Sure.

>> But like, let's assume he wasn't. Where do you think a person like that learns the psychological tactics to be able to become this monster to get people? And she was like, "That's a great question." And it's like a rhetorical question. I don't expect anyone to have an answer. But then an hour later, she's talking about these phone calls and he would call her after all of these meetings and he'd want to know every detail like like drastically like, "All right, what do you say? What do you do?" And and he'd be like, "Did you hook up with her?" which means that she would have been raped. And she'd be like, "No." And he'd be like, "Why not? What? What? When you went in there, what do you do? What do you say?" And I said, "Oh my god, he's like Bill Belichick and Tom Brady watching football tape except he's getting tape of [ __ ] predators and what works and what doesn't."

>> Yes. And so that guy having those types of skills and like the first time he came in and met her, he wanted to know all about her dreams, her family, the dynamics, what she was interested in life, places she wanted to go, you know, all these psychological things that hook you to someone and make you trust them. He obviously had those skills. And these skills would be paramount, correct me if I'm wrong, in being able to be someone who wanted to surreptitiously get information for espionage purposes. Is that fair to say?

>> Absolutely. Yes. 100%. Mhm. So, with the blackmail, I was talking with someone else on the phone the other day who I'll probably have on the podcast to talk about this and make the arguments, but he was, I don't know, steelmanning the argument that the blackmail was defensive blackmail, paranoia blackmail. And at the end of his argument, I said to him, I was like, "Every leap you had to make to make the argument that it was just defensive in in nature, I don't have to make a single one of those leaps to say it was offensive in nature."

>> Absolutely right. Absolutely right.

>> You know, and it's one thing to have a little kernel of of a story that you tuck back in your mind just in case you need it to protect yourself at some point. It's an entirely different thing to 24 hours a day collect intelligence on everybody. I I'm I just don't buy the argument that it was defensive in nature.

>> No.

>> Meaning he was doing that for himself. But the question is, and now now we should get to the origin story. Was he doing that at the behest as a literal employee or as a >> Well, see, that's really the the $64,000 question. And my thinking has evolved. Do you know what that's a reference to?

>> I actually don't.

>> Oh, it's a it was a game show in the 1950s called The $64,000 Question. It was like Jeopardy. You get to the end and if you win the big prize, it's $64,000. But it went off the air because it turned out it was fixed. And so the producers and the hosts were prosecuted.

>> So it's no it was no longer on TV after a few years. Anyway,

>> When somebody cuts right to the chase, that's the $64,000 question.

>> Gotcha.

>> Um my thinking has changed on this has has evolved on this. I've always maintained that Epstein to me was obviously a Mossad asset agent. And I I said that right here on the show.

>> Now, with the release of this latest tranche of documents,

>> I think he was more than that and that he was probably not exclusive to the Israelis. I think he was what's called an intelligence peddler or an intelligence broker, but a more sophisticated one. What an intelligence peddler is normally is, let's say you are a Pakistani guy and you work in a restaurant and two al-Qaeda guys come into the restaurant. They have lunch and you hear something. You go to the American embassy and you say, "Listen, I've got this bit of information. I want to I want to talk to a CIA officer." So John comes downstairs uh

And I say, "What do you have?" and um, you give me the information. Okay, sounds plausible. I'm going to give you a few hundred for your trouble. But then you go to the British embassy and do the same thing. And then the French embassy and then the Russian embassy and then the Chinese embassy and you've just made six months' worth of salary, right? That's an intelligence peddler. Epstein would have been far, far more sophisticated than that. And his intelligence is not coming from two al-Qaeda guys having lunch. It's coming from Bill Clinton and Bill Gates and Alan Dershowitz and Prince Andrew and all of these other movers and shakers that he was constantly in touch with.

Now, who, who would it have been for? Well, we now know from these documents that through his attorney, he was actively seeking an admission by the CIA that he was somehow associated with the CIA. And and they did the same thing with the National Security Council. It doesn't look like they ever got a response.

>> They toyed with them when he went to jail >> in summer 2019. And he toyed, this is what was interesting. He toyed with them for the dates between sometime in 2000 and 2014. Now, here's why this was interesting to me, John, because there, there's a bigger point I don't want to get lost, but a little tangent. I've, I'm very open-minded on this now because I, I agree with you. I think we're seeing a lot more. And I think like I saw Dave Smith tweet out something that would have seemed crazy a few weeks ago and now I'm like, that's not crazy. Where he said, "I used to think Epstein worked for Mossad. Now I wonder if Mossad worked for Epstein." I don't think I'm there. However, it does feel like there wasn't a, I used the word employee in my question. It does not feel like there was an employee relationship.

That's >> I agree. And and that's one of the things that I've, I've changed in my own mind, not an employee of Mossad. We know from these latest documents that he had some sort of association with MI5 and MI6, essentially the FBI and the CIA of the UK.

>> That's right.

>> We know that he made an approach to the German intelligence service. And we know that he tried hard to get a one-on-one meeting with Vladimir Putin. They went back and forth and back and forth and finally the Russians agreed that he could meet with Putin and three other people and he said no, it has to be just Putin and the Russians said no. What the [ __ ] is that all about? Why would he, what, what would he have to say to Vladimir Putin that is so sensitive that the head of the, you know, SVR couldn't be in the room? He had to say it directly to Putin.

>> All right, let me throw a fishing line out here. That's all this is, people. It's a fishing line. You don't have to bite on this. So, I had David Satter in for episodes 92 and 133 back in 2022. I don't know how you remember the episode numbers. I don't remember who I interviewed a week ago and I see the the icon pop up on my thing and I'm like, I have no idea who that is.

>> I have a photographic audiovisuall memory. It helps. But David Satter was actually roommates with Bill Clinton or on the same hall as Bill Clinton at Oxford and knew him and then later had some issues with Clinton which was interesting. Really a nice guy. I like David.

>> David became the chief Moscow correspondent for the Financial Times in 1976.

>> Wow.

>> He was then kicked out of the Soviet Union in somewhere the area '87-'88. He was one of the last people uncicked out after it flipped over to being Russia again, but came back and as Russia was rebuilding itself, if you want to call it that, became the preeminent psychologist of Putin in the Western world. He eventually became the first Western journalist to be banned from Russia in December 2013, conveniently right before Maidan when he was at the Ukrainian embassy looking to go back into Russia. Basically, he got the FSB line where they're like, I forget what the exact line was. It was like 15 minutes into episode 92. It was very dramatic, but like it was something like, "Whoa, okay, you're going to get whacked if you go in there."

>> And so David obviously has a lot of strong opinions because Putin literally killed some of his friends. Boris Nemtsov was someone he was tight with. Anna Politkovskaya was someone he was tight with.

>> Right? So obviously he doesn't like him at all and I fully understand that. But I was after David was there the first time I was reading one of his books and I forget which one it was but there was a little mention in there that just made my, like the hairs on on my arm go up. Six months before that maybe I had been reading this series by Henry Abbott about the relationship between Jeffrey Epstein and Apollo Global. That ring a bell?

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. So Drexel Burnham Lambert becomes the guys who found Leon Black, all that.

>> Basically Henry Abbott was a >> is a a basketball reporter. He had a blog on ESPN called True Hoop. I used to read this when I was a kid and then ESPN laid off everybody in the 2010s because they lost money. So he just kept his blog and did it from the outside. So he sees that some guys from Apollo Global get on the ownership of like three different NBA teams. And in 2020 he's like, "That's interesting. They're kind of connected to Epstein. Let me do an investigation in that."

>> Oh my god.

>> He's planning on doing a two or three-part investigation. [ __ ] guy goes nuts. It becomes a 21 chapter investigation. Some of the greatest [ __ ] I have ever read in my life. And one of the things that he really outlined and it was sourced out the [ __ ] wazoo was the whole Adnan Khashoggi thing and the Adnan, I've been waiting to bring this up the whole time. The Adnan relationship with Jeffrey Epstein from an arms dealing perspective, from a sex trafficking perspective, from an international like government communication perspective. So fast forward again back six months later, I'm reading David's book and he mentions this one war that was like war. It was like one day, yeah, that happened in the middle of like the second Chechen war when Putin's basically seizing power at the time as a wartime leader and then eventually is able to move up the elections and get into the off, get into office, but some, I forget even what it was, but some army invaded that was related to Russia, correct me if I'm wrong in the comments, but it was something like this, basically like invaded Dagestan >> with a bunch of helicopters dropped, you know, a few bombs or something and then left and they were going to come back. But a meeting was organized between the Russian government and the Dagestanis in either Monte Carlo or Nice.

>> Seriously?

>> At the home of Adnan Khashoggi. And he just had it in there.

>> That is a very, that is a stereotypical Adnan Khashoggi thing to do.

>> And why would that be for people out there who are not familiar with Adnan Khashoggi?

>> Adnan Khashoggi. His actual name in Arabic is is Khashougi. Um, Saudi, um, Saudi arms dealer, Saudi man about the world, uh, fixer, friend of kings and presidents and prime ministers, the uncle of Jamal Khashoggi, who was the Washington Post uh columnist whacked by the Saudi crown prince.

>> I believe he's a cousin to Dodi Fayed, too.

>> No.

>> Did I just say that out loud?

>> Can we Google that?

>> Is that true? Did I make that up? I might have made that up. Khashoggi related to Dodi Fayed?

>> So, you know, when >> he's the maternal uncle.

>> No way. The Fayeds are Egyptians.

>> Yeah. Uncle and nephew. I'll just pull it up for you. Right here.

>> Saudi arms dealer Adnan Khashoggi was the maternal uncle of Dodi Fayed, making them uncle and nephew rather than cousins. Dodi Fayed's mother was Samira Khashoggi, >> who was the sister of Adnan, the actual uncle and nephew.

>> And Dodi Fayed was the man that Princess Diana was dating who was killed alongside her in Paris.

>> I never knew that. I never knew that.

>> Continue, John.

>> So, >> it's all tied together. It is.

>> IT'S ALL TIED.

>> THE world's not a not a big place.

>> No.

>> So when when Congress passed a law in 1983 that we could no longer arm the Contra rebels, Colonel Oliver North, who was the Pentagon designate to the National Security Council, decided to um, just go around the law. And he did that by contacting Adnan Khashoggi and organizing a very complicated operation whereby we would sell arms to the Iranians, which was against the law. Uh, we would do that through Khashoggi. He used his own bank account in Cyprus to take payment for the for the weapons and then he would give the money. He would take, you know, 10% for himself. He was Mr. 10%. He would take the money and then transfer it to accounts controlled by Oliver North and um, John Poindexter and uh, Admiral Richard Cordell from the National Security Council and then use that money to buy arms on the gray market to send to the Contras. It was all illegal. Everybody was indicted. Nobody really was punished even though they were indicted. And uh, Adnan Khashoggi just took his money and smiled and got back on the yacht and steamed around the Mediterranean.

>> He's a, he's a fixer among many other things, but who >> he worked for himself?

>> Mhm.

>> Who did he most assist in his efforts? I genuinely don't know the answer.

>> Probably us.

>> Okay.

>> I mean, he was very, very close to the Saudi royal family. Of course, he was a Saudi, is a Saudi. I think he's still alive. Um, although he's got to be really old by now. Um, he was very close to the Saudi uh leadership. He's deceased now. Oh, yeah. 2017. Yeah. He was pretty old. Yeah. He wasn't that old. 83, 82. So, um, he was one of these guys like Mark Rich who would just deal with anybody who had money, anybody who could pay. So he would work with the Israelis, he would work with the Americans, he would work with, you know, anybody, the Libyans, the North Koreans. It just, it didn't make any difference.

>> Now, there, there's two guys though, cuz what you're talking about also with Iran-Contra ties into that Al Yamamah deal >> that happened which was around the same area. I'll come back to that. But there's, there's two guys that Epstein comes into contact with upon leaving Bear Stearns who basically seemed to cut his teeth in arms dealing and I'll say sex trafficking. He probably already had pretty good expertise in money laundering which he seemed to learn well when he was on Wall Street. But it's Khashoggi and English pronunciation there and Douglas Feith. Yeah, I don't know him >> in Britain. So, Douglas Feith, I [ __ ] I should have had this. There's a guy who did an amazing 20-minute like documentary on YouTube outlining this whole thing. I want to find it so that we can give him credit. But I had heard about this before. Douglas Feith was a guy that Epstein claimed to have a falling out with later who was basically like a British fixer and arms dealer who took in Jeffrey. I forget how he got introduced to him, but it was at the same time as Khashoggi and they started then the Iran-Contra thing came in and the Al Yamamah deal came in in Saudi Arabia and what happened later is that Epstein's fake passport, which is like Maurice or something, whatever, was recovered, which they, which you can deduce from the time it would have had to be provided to be that good by some sort of intelligence service. Is that fair to say?

Absolutely. In the early 80s >> and they were able to afterwards chart with the information we've gotten through files, chart all of Epstein's movements through countries directly related to Saudi getting to Saudi Arabia on all the right dates to help in some way for this deal to go through. Is he not working for anyone? Because there's something I'm going to bring up after this, but at that point, is he just a guy who's getting introduced to these other independent contractors and therefore just working for them and it serves whatever purpose it serves? Or do you think at that point perhaps he was already working with Mossad or CIA or both?

Oh, I think the latter, especially Mossad. They're very good at spotting talent. They really are. A lot of thought goes into this kind of thing. And, you know, the way, the way his career moved as quickly as it did, the way he accumulated wealth at a fantastic speed,

>> Right,

>> tells me that he connected with an official body early on.

>> When I was at the CIA, I never, ever heard of Jeffrey Epstein. Never. Not once. Now, that doesn't necessarily mean anything. Um, but never once did his name ever come up. And, you know, for for a while I was up on the seventh floor spending all day every day with the director, the deputy director, the deputy director for operations, the chief of staff, the, you know, executive director, the deputy executive director. These are serious people. They're running the CIA. And it never, ever ca came up even off-handedly.

>> Khashoggi we talked about a lot.

>> I, to, so, so you did talk about Khashoggi a lot.

>> What was the context to that? Usually >> he could do anything. He could do anything and he was willing to do anything so long as there was a nice fat paycheck for him at the end.

>> Right. Mhm.

>> I had asked another guy I know who had who was at the FBI if he had come across. He was like, "Oh yeah, there's a flowchart on that big time."

>> Al Yamamah was so huge. I mean, everybody knew about Al Yamamah. And Al Yamamah was also very public. The >> What was the nature of that deal? Again, it was like, um >> uh, maybe I'm, I don't want to get the number wrong. That deal. Can, can we, can we just so I can refresh my own memory too? 600,000 barrels. So 600,000 barrels of crude oil per day to the British government. Uh, name of a series of record arms sales by the United Kingdom to Saudi Arabia, paid for by the delivery of up to 600,000 barrels of crude oil per day to the British government. The prime contractor has been BAE Systems and its predecessor British Aerospace. The first sales occurred in September 1985 and the most recent contract for 72 Eurofighter Typhoon multi-role fighters was signed in August 2006.

>> So this goes on for a long >> decades.

>> Decades. Yeah.

>> And part of what Prince Andrew is now being accused of when he was trade envoy for 10 years is covering up or refusing to share information as it pertains to Jeffrey Epstein's involvement in the Al Yamamah deal.

>> That's right. So, what, see, this is yet another question that we're probably not going to get an answer to. What could Jeffrey Epstein possibly have been able to contribute in the, in the Al Yamamah deal? I've been thinking about almost nothing else for the last seven hours.

>> The right nationalities, >> right?

>> You know, >> he did kind of have that thing though where especially back then when he had the fro going and all that where you could kind of blend. I'll give him that.

>> Right. But he had a, he had those manipulation skills with people where, and also John, I don't know, maybe you could speak to this better cuz you can look at this from an espionage perspective because you're trained to think like that, but in regular, in the regular world, right, which espionage occurs in, the regular world >> guys like him, when you hear him talk, the Coney Island accent, the all-shucks kind of whatever, just on the surface, when you don't disarm, right?

>> Absolutely. That's all part of the part of the thing, part of the delivery, part of the training. Sure. There's something about that. It reminded me in a different way of of my friend Luis Navia, who was here in episodes 221 and 222. He was like the chief smuggler for the cartels, except the Asian ones, his quote, not mine, around the world until 2000 when he was taken down in Operation Journey in Venezuela by like [ __ ] 15 countries. But he, he walks up, you think he's a mix between Francis Ford Coppola and Mr. Magoo. He never carried a gun. He wasn't the violent guy. And he'd just be like, "Oh, what the fuck?" And people were like, "I can't even, no, like Luis, we're holding." He would tell these stories. And they're like, "No, Luis, we're going to kill you." And he's like, "Listen, bro. I, I got places to be. Like, can we go to the bar or something?" And they'd be like, "This [ __ ] guy." And they just wouldn't.

>> Some are unflappable, >> right?

>> Yeah. And it's, I think there's a little something like that in Jeffrey Epstein where people, even from a totally different background, worldview, or, you know, political desires, they'd get in a room with him and they're like, "The [ __ ] balls on this guy."

>> Could you see that?

>> Absolutely.

>> Yeah. Although, yeah, I could see that through the first arrest even. But then he had to have concluded that things were so bad in 2019 that this, this was it. It was over. You know?

>> Why? Why do you say that?

>> Cuz he killed himself.

>> You do believe he did?

>> I do. I believe he killed himself.

>> What makes you believe that considering all the evidence that they have?

See, but the evidence, the evidence isn't as clear as I think most people would want it to be. For example, and I base this on my own experience in the federal prison system.

>> Mhm.

>> The guards, number one, have their heads up their asses 24 hours a day. The only qualification to be a prison guard in the federal system, the Federal Bureau of Prisons, is you have to be working on a GED and no uh felony convictions. That's it. There's this rule that prisoners can't touch the mail, right? So, we have mail call every day at 4:00 and the guards are supposed to say your name and hand you your mail. Most of the time the guards didn't do mail call. Prisoners did mail call in violation of the rule of the rules. Any idea why? Because they couldn't read. It was as simple as that. The guards couldn't, competence basically.

>> Yeah. I mean, they literally could not read to call out the names. So, number one, they're idiots. Number two, the cameras are always broken. Always. I was a janitor in the uh chapel when I was in prison. And every day part of my job was to go in there and break up guys having sex in the chapel.

>> In the chapel?

>> Yeah. Because >> Jesus.

>> Of the Lord.

>> That's what I said. You guys, this is God's house for heaven's sake.

>> What are you going to do? But the reason they would all be having sex in the chapel is because they knew that the cameras didn't work. None of the cameras work. The guards are supposed to be doing their rounds every 15 minutes or if there's a suicide watch situation going on, every 8 minutes. And with Epstein, they, it was like two hours before they finally made their rounds. Why? Because number one, they're either jacking off in the uh, in the guard booth, which happens all the freaking time, or they're sound asleep in the guard booth, or they're on the phone with their girlfriends, or they're surfing the internet. So, no, they don't, they don't make the rounds. And then people are like, "Oh, but there's a glitch. You know, there's this one second glitch." Yeah, because every night the cameras reset themselves. They're old cameras. They still use tape and they tape over yesterday's.

>> Then why don't they let the guards talk? Why were the guards like >> Oh, they would never let the Because the guards are I just stopped myself from saying a word that's not supposed to be >> [ __ ] >> These guys are so stupid. You know, a a guard from the prison where I was um emailed me. He he saw one of the podcasts and he said, "This is exactly why we wanted to kill you." And I said, "Bring it, tough guy."

>> Why he wanted to kill you?

>> Yeah. Cuz I say they're morons and retards and this and that. And it's all true. It's true. Learn to read and then maybe we can have a conversation. I mean, otherwise, put up. Let's go. I'm not afraid of these guys. But this is why everything went wrong. Because what we saw go wrong the night Jeffrey Epstein died goes wrong every night. It's the same thing.

>> But so perfectly like that. You think it could line up that way?

>> Yes. I saw it. I saw it. For example, not supposed to have microwaves in the housing unit, right?

>> Mhm.

>> And then people are like, "Ah, you know, you [ __ ] long enough, they're going to, they're going to put in a microwave." So they put in a microwave. All right. There was a serial killer in my unit and he took a liking to me inexplicably. So we called him Truck because he was a long-distance truck driver and he would murder prostitutes all along his route and he got caught. So, so he would be like, "Hey John, uh, he had these like rotten black little nubs for teeth. John, uh, I saved you a seat in the TV room. Watch the Steelers game. I'm like, thanks, Truck. Or, uh, hey, there's a new classic rock station. I know you like classic rock. It's 1600 AM. Thank you, Truck. Truck hated, hated, hated pedophiles. Hated them. Fully a third of the prison is pedophiles because remember, they're all at the low security level,

>> Right?

>> So, there's like this rule in prison. No pedophiles are allowed in the TV room. And pedophiles aren't even allowed in their own room unless it's to sleep. Okay? So, if you're a pedophile and it's the middle of the day, get the [ __ ] out of the room.

>> Well, there's a pedophile in his room and the guy's like, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. He won't stop talking. Well, another thing is pedophiles aren't allowed to have any visitors in their rooms. You can't have another pedophile cuz they're going to talk about pedophilia, which is what they do. They relive their crimes every single day.

>> They like they can't help themselves. So, this pedophile is just yapping away and Truck is getting angrier and angrier and angrier. And finally, the pedophile lays down for a nap. Truck had gone to the commissary and he bought a bottle of olive oil, which is $2.85. You can, because everybody cooks in their cells.

>> Plastic or glass?

>> Plastic.

>> So he pours the olive oil into a bowl and he microwaves it. So it's boiling. Like literally it's bubbling, boiling, scalding oil and he pours it on the pedophile's face while he's sleeping. And the guy, the scream, I'll never forget the scream. And his skin is just like dropping off of his skull. And pedophile got a pedophile. The pedophile got, you know, medevaced to Pittsburgh. They landed a helicopter in the yard and medevaced him to Pittsburgh. Truck got another 10 years onto the 40 he was already doing for being a serial killer.

>> He was only doing 40 as a serial killer?

>> I know, right?

>> He had a great lawyer.

>> Yeah, he did. But the point is that there are rules for everything and nobody pays any attention to them and nothing works the way it's supposed to.

>> Then why does the Justice Department come out and say things like, "Oh, here's all the evidence." And then they show that they didn't put all the evidence. And I'm just talking about like that.

>> But then that proves my point because people are idiots at every single level.

>> It doesn't matter if you went to Harvard Law School, you can still be an idiot.

>> Right? And another thing too, this is, this is a lesson that that government officials, especially senior government officials, just cannot learn. And it is that the cover-up of the crime is always worse than the crime.

>> Oh, yeah.

>> Always. You know, >> a lie begets 10 more lies, begets a hundred more lies.

>> And Richard Nixon didn't resign because of Watergate. Richard Nixon resigned because of the cover-up of Watergate. H I think it's the same situation here. All right. Well, let me flip it around on you. I have always thought, still do think, that Jeffrey Epstein is dead. I >> and I feel pretty comfortable.

>> I spoke to his brother recently and I said, I said, "Is he dead?"

>> And he's like, "He's dead. I, I identified the body." I'm just >> I mean, I spoke to O.J. I didn't speak to him, but he said he didn't do it. You know what I mean? Like, identified the body. He said, "I think he was murdered." And that's a debate, you know, that he wanted to have with me. But he said, "Yeah, he's dead. I identified his body. I took it to the crematorium."

>> Joseph Scott Morgan, friend of mine, broke this down. He's a medical death investigator. He broke it down like scientifically with all the bones, the hyoid bone and all that about what would not make sense about it being suicide and therefore it being murder. Obviously, Dr. Michael Baden, who's like the GOAT with all this.

>> He's the GOAT.

>> Also does not think >> that he killed himself. So it's possible.

>> It's at least possible that he was killed.

>> It's possible. Definitely.

>> Absolutely.

>> Now, I do think he's dead.

>> Mhm.

>> But again, this whole thing is just like, you, you almost have to open your mind to [ __ ] everything. That's crazy. So, I'll ask it like this. If you were tasked, not that you ever would be, it's hypothetical people, but if you were tasked with making the world believe that Jeffrey Epstein was dead and getting him out of that prison without anyone knowing to wherever he's going to go to get [ __ ] facial surgery and live out his life, how would you do it?

Oh, you would take out the body, whether it's a a body double or, you know, made out of silicone or whatever. Take it out in full view of everybody. That's how I would do it. Let as many people as possible see this body so that reasonable people can agree to disagree.

>> They did do that.

>> Mhm. And there was a New York Post reporter very ready to go.

>> And there was the conversation about the ear, which I've heard a thousand million times.

>> Those ones I'm always a little skeptical of because they can doctor them.

>> Of course. Well, it's like this stupid obviously AI-generated picture of him just like walking down the street in Tel Aviv.

>> Oh, yeah. That one, that one's not real. But I'm saying like, so the recipe you just gave me though,

>> Mhm.

>> is in line. It's not to say that's what happened.

>> That's what they did.

>> Yeah. Sure.

>> Yeah. Cuz I had another guy in here, Ken Gibson, who's worked in media forever, and he's like, the idea that a New York Post reporter on an early Saturday morning in [ __ ] August was that ready to go immediately after this? Yeah, sketchy. And another thing too, is if I wanted, if I wanted to initiate a cover-up of this scale, I would cremate whatever it is I took out on that gurney because otherwise you'd be, you'd be having people say, "Okay, let's just settle this. We're going to dig him up. We're going to get a court order. We're going to exhume the body. We're going to do DNA testing and make sure that this is Jeffrey Epstein." Can't do that. Cremated.

>> I don't know anymore, John. I really don't.

>> I have to tell you, I was jaded anyway because of my own personal experience,

>> but now it's like I don't believe anything anymore. Not at face value anyway. Have you had your like any kind of moment where you think back to a bunch of stuff, different moments and visions of like things you did that you were certain were because of one thing in one way and one person in one mission that you're now like, "Wait a minute. Why was that guy there, too?"

>> I think about that kind of thing all the time.

>> Yeah, I do. And in some cases, it's taken years for me to finally conclude like, "Oh crap, that's what that was about."

>> I've thought about this Rockefeller thing a million times.

>> Yeah.

>> You know, I, I've told you the story. It, it was the one and only time I ever received a phone call from Colin Powell. I told you the story.

>> I, you told the internet in The New Voice as well.

>> Yeah. And in The New Voice. But I think about that a lot, too.

>> Yeah. you know, and and I remember when it first happened, I remember thinking, "This wasn't your fault. Don't let it bother you." And it's bothered me for decades.

>> It's human lives. You're a real person.

>> Yeah.

>> The story was that Colin Powell asked how to target someone in Iraq. John said what it was and >> gave him his address >> and then he found out eight of them got bombed later.

>> There was one time dozens of cruise missiles, you know, vaporized the building. Every time I watch that clip, I think of the [ __ ] Mark Wahlberg line that departed. Yeah, it can send a [ __ ] cruise missile up the ass of a camel from a thousand yards away. Thousand miles away.

>> Not to get too far off the topic, but the assassination of Zawahiri, the number two in al-Qaeda.

>> Oh, yeah.

>> You know, we shot him with a, with a drone-launched missile, right?

>> The missile had no warhead on it, >> right? We did that on purpose because we didn't want to kill the women and children inside the apartment. He came out onto the balcony to smoke a cigarette. Fired the missile at him. It went completely through his body. A missile went completely through his body. And with no warhead, there was no explosion. Can you imagine cleaning up that mess? I appreciate the uh responsibility on that one. At least they didn't hit a wedding.

>> Oh, we did.

>> Was a little better than the Obama year.

>> They hit every, every wedding during Obama.

>> Yeah. Yeah, it was uh, that was interesting. But the thing I had wanted to bring it to when I was bringing up the early origins of Jeffrey Epstein with that Al Yamamah deal is obviously >> the point there is that there is some sort of relationship with intelligence, intelligences >> Absolutely. at the time and there is a tweet sent it to you. Yep. He has it up. So, this is from Ronald Reagan >> about Iran-Contra. Okay.

>> In his new auto and this is from back in the day obviously because he's dead. Uh, in the new autobiography, former President Ronald Reagan says Israel was the instigator and prime mover in the Iran-Contra affair. He blames the Israelis for misleading him into believing he was selling arms to so-called Iranian moderates when some quote may have had links to the Ayatollah Khomeini's government and were trying to obtain weapons under false pretenses, unquote. Israel began the arms deals with Iran when it contacted Robert McFarlane, Reagan's national security advisor to propose the first sale and continued to press the secret dealings thereafter. Reagan writes in an American life that Prime Minister Shimon Peres was behind the proposal. The former president says Iranian middlemen endorsed by Israel helped quote win the freedom of three hostages, unquote. Reagan adds, but the same middlemen behaved at times like bait and switch conmen with the sole intentions of profiting. So with Iran-Contra, they were trying to get weapons to the Sandinistas in South America. And they were trying to do it by financing a $150 million deal to, through Iran when we weren't supposed to be dealing with post-revolution Iran in the 80s. That's like the very high-level version of it. But >> it says down here too, Patrick Ali says that that Epstein was, was roommates with uh, with Stanley Pottinger. He was in up to his neck in Iran-Contra. Roommates, partners and roommates with J. Stanley Pottinger who helped ship weapons to Iran prior to Iran-Contra. Can we read this, Steve?

>> Good grief.

>> So, according to his former friend, the journalist Jesse Cornbluth, who's Epstein'd up the ass.

>> Yep.

>> In pause. In the mid-1980s, Epstein said he worked >> he worked for governments to recover money looted by African dictators and occasionally subcontracted to those same autocrats to help them hide their stolen money. A source who spoke with journalist Vicky Ward from Vanity Fair, the '03 piece, said one of Epstein's clients was the late Saudi arms dealer Khashoggi, a middleman in the in the Iran-Contra scandal who helped smuggle cash for the Marcos family out of the Philippines in 1988. Khashoggi was arrested in Switzerland. That's hard to do for concealing assets and later faced fraud and racketeering charges in the US. He was later acquitted. Must have had a great attorney. That year he sold his 200, he sold his 282-foot yacht to the Sultan of Brunei who soon flipped it to Donald Trump. And let's go to the next one right here. Epstein was fired from Bear Stearns around the time he met Douglas Feith, who I was telling you about. Epstein then started a short-lived partnership with J. Stanley Pottinger, a former US Department of Justice official who was investigated for his role in dealing arms to the Islamic Republic of Iran. The Iran-Contra affair appears to be a pivotal moment in in Epstein's life. Between '81 and '86, the Reagan administration covertly sold arms to Iran, which was at war with Saddam Hussein's Iraq. So, they were selling to the Iranians they didn't like cuz they liked Saddam Hussein even less.

>> My question is, why is he, this didn't wasn't clicking to me at first because I looked at this very quickly before we got on air. Why is Reagan saying that that benefited the Israelis when the Israelis really don't like the Iranian regime? Like that has always been their big bug. But the Iranians back then didn't have a nuclear program and it was Iraq that was the real like immediate threat to, to Israel because the Iraqis did have a nuclear program and a biological weapons program and a chemical weapons program and they were working with a Belgian inventor named Gerald Bull to, um, to the, the Iraqis were to build something called the the Big Gun.

>> This is one of the very first things I learned about my first week uh at the CIA. Gerald Bull created this this giant gun that was so big you just had to sort of lean the barrel up against the side of a mountain, point it in essentially the right direction, and then fire it. And it, it would send a shell as far as a missile would go. And nobody wanted to buy it. They're like, "What are we going to do with this giant gun?" Right? It's as big as a house. And so the Iraqis said, "We'll take it." And so the Iraqis bought this thing and before it kept cracking when when Bull would would test it, it kept cracking. So, he came up with this idea to put what he called a condom on the inside of the gun to smooth the barrel and to and to keep the the reverberation from the shot from cracking it. But before he could test it with the condom inside, the Israelis assassinated him.

>> They're pretty good at that.

>> Yeah. Gerald Bull and his giant gun. I remember saying to my boss, like, I say, I was only on the job for a week. I said, "This is a joke, right?" And he said, "No, no, this is deadly serious. It's a giant gun. They have to lean it up on the side of the mountain to fire it."

>> I'm picturing that thing in Game of Thrones they were trying to take the dragon out with, just like, "Come on, baby. Let's go."

>> All right. So, you had always maintained that Jeffrey Epstein was a Mossad access agent.

>> Do you think I wanted to bring this up first so we at least had the context of what Ronald Reagan said about this?

>> Probably his handler said about it because I don't think he was all there by the time he wrote that book.

>> Yeah. Not a chance. So, so do you think that in something like that, if in fact the Israelis had an interest in seeing Iraq be neutralized more, do you think that this is the prime type of situation where he could have been recruited at that time?

>> Absolutely.

>> Yeah.

>> Do you think that's what happened? You know, when you're, when you put all of these episodes together in a line, that would make sense to me.

>> Yes.

>> Next question. This is a deal where the CIA is running a lot of ops as well, meaning they have to know he's involved with this.

>> You know, that's a good question. He would have had to have bumped up against CIA ops people or even if not CIA ops people, NSC people who were in up to their necks in this thing.

>> National Security Council.

>> National Security Council. You know, the likes of of um, as I said, Admiral Poindexter, Richard Cordell, uh, Oliver North, all these guys. So even if if you're not dealing directly with agency people, although you probably would be, you're going to at least be dealing with White House people. Now, you had said earlier you had never heard Jeffrey Epstein mentioned at CIA. You did hear Khashoggi mentioned though, a bunch.

>> All the time.

>> Khashoggi was also like extremely public for throughout a lot of his life.

>> That's right. If seven people from the NSC and CIA directly dealt or at least bumped into Jeffrey Epstein during said mission, Iran-Contra, which was a cover-up. They were covering up something they were doing.

>> That's right. The comp is it reasonable to say that the compartmentalization structure of espionage bureaucracy in the United States government would mean that those people would chart this, maybe have it in their own files, but not necessarily share it with anybody?

>> Yes. And I could tell you exactly how that would play out. If I were one of the agency guys involved and I run into this American guy who's in the middle of it and he's not with us and he's not with the White House people, then who the hell is he with? So, what I would have done is I first would have gone to the White House people and say, "Who's this American, this Epstein guy?" And then I would have gone to the FBI and say, "Listen, just so you know, we're doing this highly compartmentalized top-secret operation. You don't need to know what it's about, but you do need to know that there is a private citizen involved who's an American, just so you can start a file on him, just in case this is going to be a counterintelligence problem for us in the future." It doesn't look like that was ever done. I can't imagine why.

>> That was going to be my next question. What would be something >> he had to have had protection at the White House? He had to have >> at that time >> way back then, sometime between 1981 and 198, you know, four or five.

>> All right. Wait a second. That would make sense for a second. So if he has protection at the White House, maybe through a technical intermediary like Oliver North or something like that.

>> Exactly.

>> They're doing this under the table. It's a crime. So, he's going to be like, it's more like the mob. Like, all right, I'm not saying nothing.

>> I know who that guy is, but I can't tell people I know who that guy is. Cuz then they'll say, "How do you know who that guy is?" And now we got a problem.

>> That's right.

>> Okay. That's right. See, you know, I had never thought of that.

>> That's interesting.

>> But now that we're playing it out,

>> Yeah.

>> that makes sense to me.

>> This is why you're here.

>> So, I had always, again, my mind is very open on all this. I am not married to any of this stuff. What I had always thought, just very 30,000-foot view in the air, and some people have misheard me on recent episodes on how I explain this, so I need to do a better job. I'd always looked at it like, okay, he's working with Mossad or, and you have to say this, or with other intelligence organizations in Israel because they're not the only one.

>> That's right.

>> Like Jonathan Pollard wasn't with Mossad, was with the military.

>> That's right. It was military. Same [ __ ] but different name. That's right. But Mossad's an important, you know, we have what, 18 different intelligence agencies?

>> Right. You, you would think one or two might be enough, but that's >> But I always thought he worked with them. And then the thing that really shifted things for Jeffrey Epstein and his timeline was the, I believe September 2002 flight with Bill Clinton, Kevin Spacey, and Chris Tucker, which made Page Six. Prior to then, Jeffrey Epstein was known as a New York City socialite and not known publicly. He was known in the socialite circles, which >> by the way, when someone's known as a socialite in New York, red flags should be flying. But >> he's, he's a, in this case, a good spy. He's doing all his sick [ __ ] He's going to the White House 18 times. No one knows who the [ __ ] the guy is and everything. And then all of a sudden, boom, flight happens. Page Six story. Then he has to do the interview with Vicky Ward in March 2003. He's out there. No coincidence in some ways that his case starts coming up in '05 in Florida because he's a known guy in some respects. And so my thought always was, and if I were a betting man, I would have said it was probably late 90s when Clinton was still in office. My bet always was that the CIA was asleep at the wheel. Maybe because of the compartmentalization we just talked about. And, you know, then they probably find out, maybe it's 1996. I'll put a year on it. '97. They find out so far this guy's been to the Clinton White House 15 times, maybe.

>> They're like, "Who the fuck?"

>> Yeah. Who's this?

>> It's this guy and the British lady who's whose dad ran the Daily Mirror and he started all the [ __ ] peer reviews and runs all our kids' textbooks in America and got buried on the Mount of Olives in [ __ ] Israel five days after he got pushed off a boat.

>> Why is this [ __ ] coming in with the guy who's taking [ __ ] from the [ __ ] intern? You know, imagine the stories that you could piece together if you had unfettered access just to the visitor log.

>> Just to that.

>> Uh-huh.

>> Right. So, someone Linda at Langley, right?

>> Goes, "Wait a minute. We got a problem." Takes it up the chain of command, suddenly says, "Boss, I don't know who the [ __ ] this guy is." They then take 10 minutes to look into it and they're like, "Oh my god, he's running a [ __ ] pedal ring at the behest of the Victoria's Secret guy in [ __ ] New York City." And holy [ __ ], he's involved with Iran-Contra. He's [ __ ] working with Mossad. He seems to be an intelligence dealer. The [ __ ] wife, who's not really the wife's a problem. She's connected up the ass to all this [ __ ].

>> Oh my god. THEY GOT DIRT ON EVERYONE, including the current president. This is a crisis the likes of which if we outed this, everything could fall. Sounds very familiar today, by the way.

>> Yes, it does.

>> So they say in that moment, now I, you know, I proposed the New Jersey solution. I'm like, just [ __ ] blow his brains out,

>> right?

>> You know, say to Mossad, what are you going to do about it?

>> I know a lot of guys that would do that.

>> Right? Okay, good. I don't know where they were at this time. You know, we could have called up [ __ ] Vinnie and Rocco. They didn't take care of >> mentioned exactly what I was thinking.

>> That's right. But they didn't do that. And this is what I just always posited. And it's a theory. I, I can't say like, "Yo, I got evidence this happened." But I'm like, they looked at it and

They said, "Oh shit." And they go to the guy and they go, "All right, you know that we know that you know that we know that you know that we know what you're doing here. And you know that we know that you know that we know that you [ __ ] have been doing this a long time and you could take down the whole system if we tell people about that." And so you know that we know that you know that we know that now we're in a Mexican standoff.

And so here's the deal. You're going to have to keep doing whatever it is the [ __ ] you do, but now you pay a tax. You're on our soil. You're going to give us some information, too.

And so now, what John, what did he foyer? He foyed the years 2000 to 2014.

Pretty interesting to me.

I'll say.

Am I crazy or am I crazy?

No, it's a it's a great catch. And it also would tend to implicate both the Bush and the Clinton administrations.

That's right.

Sorry. Bush and Obama.

Wait, now you look Oh, from the years he foyed. Okay. I thought I thought you were talking about the backtrack of what they didn't catch.

Now the backtrack. Now you've convinced me that this started even earlier than I thought. Right.

I was thinking Clinton.

And it's not. It's earlier.

It's earlier.

Mhm. There were some files missing, too.

Yep.

Not not just the two and a half or three million. I mean, they're in there, but did you see the chart of the years that they're really missing from?

Mhm.

Can we pull up that tweet, thief?

Just so people can see this.

I have to rethink everything. I have to rethink things that in the past I would have said where I feel okay about this take and now I have to look at it and say, Julian, that was a ice cold scalding ice cold, if you will, take. And this is just one of these things like it is what it is. When I'm wrong, I'm wrong. This is a data dump. I'm going to simplify this for you, John, because there's some more specific details here, but it is showing basically like, if you will, a percentage of data sets from the Epstein files that are presented over the years. And we can see that there is a massive gap and basically like, you in the chart, if you will, between the years of 1999 to 2001. When, among other things, you had the tech bubble blow up. You had, I believe that's '99 is when the Lewinsky impeachment trials happening. You have the election of 2000, the highly contested election of 2000. John Kiryaku, where I don't know, someone Googled this for me, but I think there was a big point of contention in Palm Beach County as it pertains to that election. And that's where one Jeffrey Epstein did happen to reside. Just just looking at some things here. And then in 2001, you have the worst terrorist attack in United States history in New York and DC and in the skies over that fell over Pennsylvania with 1993.

Mhm.

And suddenly all these files are missing. But John, we did get an email from 2003 that slipped through the cracks.

Really?

Oh, you haven't seen this one?

No, I haven't seen it.

So, there's an email, thief. Boom. He's got it. He's all over it. So, this is from 2003. Someone named Ed Epstein sends an email to one GMAX, Ghislaine Maxwell, saying, "Any interest in being on the shadow commission on 9/11? The membership list is secret." She responds, "Thanks for the invite. Unfortunately, I cannot be on the shadow commission." A shadow commission. It takes my breath away. Oh my god. This should be the banner headline. What? What do you make of of that?

I don't even know what to say. I mean, nobody believes what the 9/11 commission concluded anyway.

That's right. But the fact that there was a shadow commission with a secret membership list and Ghislaine Maxwell talked about it in 2003. Why? That's what I want to know.

Good question. And it's like this goes back to a compartmentalization thing too, John, because what we do have on the record that we know happened is somewhere, I think it was like July 6th, 2001 and maybe like August 11th, the dates might be slightly off. There are two meetings that occur at the White House. One of them with Condoleezza Rice where CIA sent literally tenant Kofheer Black and some dudes who are still like Rich Blee, who's still I think undercover. That's I think that's a fake name if I remember correctly, where they tell them an attack's coming. So like when you look at the whole like, well, CIA definitely did this. CIA had a lot of incompetence because they didn't share information with FBI and there's there's a lot of issues there and they deserve a ton of blame. But that was the one thing in this that was always like the canary in the coal mine for me where I'm like, well, it couldn't have been that. Like they they had the leadership warning about it. So.

Yeah, they did.

You know, maybe it's the White House that I I don't know.

But there's also advanced knowledge that we know about from the Saudis who have always been covered up. And we know about with the five guys from MSAD in [ __ ] Fort Lee who were videotaping the thing who were sent back to Israel on November 6th, 2001.

That's exactly right. And I know a guy from the office that arrested them and to this day he wonders why the [ __ ] they didn't get why the [ __ ].

Mhm.

So when I see stuff like this, I'm like, how many countries are involved in this thing?

God, this is bad.

And is it even countries versus is it this trilateral elite just in general? Like everyone wants to just immediately say, it's Israel, it's Saudi Arabia, it's the CI. How about all the above who are working for all the above?

Mhm.

Possible.

Possible. Yes. Yes. Incredible. Sickening. I think is how what I first said when we sat down and started talking. This just makes me sick. I don't even know what to do with them. Gmax.

Gmax redacted.

She must have bcccded him. Jeffrey, why would it be in the Epstein files? Why would it be on his computer?

I don't know. She BCCD him. The membership list is secret.

She's not even. Was she an American at the time? I don't. Did she ever become an American officially?

I don't know. I wonder like we talk about this small group, you know, you got the commerce secretary and transition chair who just.

Yes, Ghislaine Maxwell is a naturalized American citizen.

Born in France to British and French parents and raised in England, she moved to the United States in '91 following her father's death. She holds triple citizenship being a citizen of the US, UK, and France. Yeah.

Makes sense.

Can say that again.

Yeah. So.

But not Israel.

Yeah.

Man, you have a guy like Le Let who runs the transition team as the commerce secretary, always in Trump's ear advising him, shares a wall with Jeffrey Epstein for technically 21 years, but he claims it was 14 cuz he didn't move in till '05. Who knows if even that's true.

Openly lies on camera just drip blood with this dramatic story about the first and last time I ever spent time with that man. And then he said, "So I never dealt with him in business, socially, or even for philanthropy." And and what he was really doing was remembering all the things he did deal with him on because now we saw it on the emails of what it was. But the guy has, as of the time of this recording on Friday afternoon, he has not resigned yet. Still doing his job.

And also, we find out his sister was one of the founding members of the Terramar project, which was like Jen's post-J conviction, post Jeffrey's never going to [ __ ] marry me project that she did, pet project that has something to do with the oceans that she did a [ __ ] TED talk on.

Oh my god.

Do these people just all like [ __ ] each other?

They must. They must. I'm glad I don't know people like this.

You don't?

I don't. No. No. I would feel dirty all the time.

Well, there's a guy in the middle for. Well, actually, John, we can't forget this. Did you see what Hillary Clinton said the other day?

Oh, no. What' she say?

She said that they have. Can we play the video, De? I did it in my solo episode. It's coming out two days before this, but it's worth repeating because again, we got the picture of Ghislaine in the row looking at Chelsea coming down the aisle at her wedding. We know about the 25 to 27 flights on the Lolita Express. Yep. We got images of Clinton all with Epstein. Obviously, the Clintons are their whole [ __ ] thing. As well on the side, that doesn't even have to do with Epstein. We know about the 18 known visits that happened to the White House. And yet he'll. Let's let's run it. If Hillary Clinton says this when asked about the links between the Clintons and the Epstein and Epste regret the links that there have been.

You know, we have no links. We have a very clear record that we've been willing to talk about, which my husband has said he took some uh rides on the airplane for his charitable work. For charitable work. I don't recall ever meeting him. I did on a few occasions and thousands of people go to the Clinton Global Initiative. So, it to me is not is not something that is really at the heart of what this matter is about. They are accused and in both cases were convicted of horrific crimes against girls and women. That should be the focus. And we are more than happy to say what we know, which is very limited and totally unrelated to their uh behavior or their crimes. And we want to do it in public because let's make this transparent. The survivors deserve that. The public deserves that. But.

God, they just lie with straight faces.

Straight faces.

Mhm. How does a guy like Jeffrey Epstein get so involved with with Bill Clinton clearly before he got into office?

Yeah, it's a good question. Could he have spotted Bill Clinton that early on in the process? Just another governor. That was a governor who was letting Barry Seal fly coke planes and demean it with no questions asked.

Yes. Although I always believed he was told, "Hey, uh, we're going to do this and you're going to say it's okay." And he did.

What makes you think that?

Because that would have been a federal operation. I mean, we all knew, everybody knows now that the CIA uh was was allowing cocaine into the country, making its way to Los Angeles. Um, so it would have been federal. It's not up to a governor to say, "No, no, you can't you can't do this." It's like, "Shut the [ __ ] up. We're doing it."

We're going to do it and you'll become president.

Yeah. Yeah.

Listen to what we say.

Exactly.

It's just always funny when Hill when Hillary, not funny, but it's kind of sick when Hillary talks about like women and victims and stuff like that.

God.

And then you think about the things that both of them are actually accused of.

Mhm.

It's like.

Come on. That's what I mean. The political opportunism of this that I'll call out all day. It's like nobody gets a win here. This is.

No, there are no good guys in this whole thing. And then, you know, it just makes me feel that much worse that Virginia Duprey uh took her life. I can't even I can't even fathom the pressure that she was under, you know, and she kind of cracked in slow motion. Remember weeks in advance of her death, she said she had been like hit by a school bus or something.

Mhm.

I don't remember the whole the whole story, but she kind of cracked up right in front of our eyes.

Yeah, it's it's suspicious. And apparently also does have to be said her husband did beat her.

Yeah.

As well.

Yep.

Yes.

She had confided that in in Tara Pelary, who was a journalist that she worked with. And so once her family released photos of her from towards the end of her life that included like standing photos of her with bruises all over her, Tara said that she did. She had promised obviously not to say anything, but she's like, "Now that Virginia is deceased and her family has released these photos, I do feel like I should also reveal that her husband beat her all the time." Doesn't mean she didn't.

Not something fishy there.

Sure.

You know, she she.

Yeah, this is bad. She went after a lot of people. And I just, you know, it's like these people, they see all these things 20, 30, 40 years ahead at their cute little [ __ ] Bilderberg meetings, but they couldn't see the internet coming.

Yeah.

Right.

Yeah, that's right.

It's kind of weird, right?

Yeah. Mhm. There's a guy that's been at the middle of all this, Steve Bannon, who I mentioned, Henry Abbott earlier. Shout out to Henry for turning me on to this back in 2021, 2022.

And it all turned out to be true.

It was all true. Steve Bannon goes way back with Leon Black and all those guys. You can trace it back to the 80s and you can trace back the earliest investments in things that became Cambridge Analytica in 1992. So they were already thinking about how to influence people through fear all the way back then, but they weren't thinking about the very tools they were building being used against them to have the public be able to discuss things in the open, including the [ __ ] they do behind closed doors.

Imagine why? That doesn't make sense to me, though. Like, what am I missing there? You know, one of my favorite movies is is a 1970s sci-fi film called Soylent Green.

You mentioned last time.

Yep.

Mhm.

And um Soylent Green takes place in the in the future. It was filmed in like 1972 or something and I think it takes place in 2015. And cars, you know, float on the air and uh the world is overpopulated and people can't afford food. And it gives you a pretty good depiction of of a world that's on the brink of just falling apart. The only thing that they just got completely and totally wrong was every time Charlton Heston, the main character, who's a policeman, every time he needed to make a call, he'd pull over to the side of the road, go into a phone booth, and make the call.

I guess there are just some things people don't see.

That's a good way to put it.

You know, I remember being I was in a station in the Middle East. I was there on temporary duty for a week, week and a half, and there was a tech team in from headquarters and they were installing the first ever um email program. And so everybody in the station was gathered around this computer and they're showing us that you you click on this little button that had an envelope on it and then you write in somebody's name and hit refresh and their actual name pops up and then you can just write them a like a letter. It's called electronic mail, email. And the station chief says, "Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Are you saying that my people can have access to anybody they want? They just write this electronic mail and hit send." And the guy said, "Yes." And the chief said, "I don't like it. I don't like it one bit." And then he sort of made this edict that there would be none of this email in his station. Sometimes you just don't see it. You just can't your brain can't comprehend it. And maybe that's what we're looking at here with with our 2020 hindsight.

I don't understand though in the 2010s once it was a real thing like an email's been.

Yeah.

Because it's like, yes, obviously these people were talking in a way that they didn't think the DOJ would ever release their emails to the public. Right? But you have people in 2021, 2022, 2023 keeping their jobs and saying, "No, I regret my relationship, but I didn't really know them." And now it comes out that they did. And yet, maybe I'm thinking of this too simply and I'm the farthest thing from a lawyer, but discovery exists. If you get sued civilly and stuff, you get access to everything.

And that can get leaked.

Mhm.

So why it often does.

Right. So these people being so arrogant to be like, "Ah, no one will ever know that I had 11,500 emails with the dude, so I'll keep my job at Goldman Sachs."

Incredible. Yeah, it's crazy.

What goes through somebody's mind? Like, she knew how many emails. I mean, she at least in her mind had a ballpark figure.

Kathy Rumler.

Kathy Rumler. How many emails she exchanged with with Jeffrey Epstein and did she think that by not telling the seauite at Goldman Sachs that it just wasn't going to be a problem that this was never going to come to light? I mean, the guy died in 2019. It's 2026 and it never occurred to her, you know, maybe I should try to get ahead of this. This is going to be a problem. Or was she that arrogant to think that she could just weather this?

And you know, if if you're the CEO of if you're the CEO of Goldman Sachs, you have to be saying, "Fucking Rumler, what was she thinking?"

Yeah. I mean, he should have done that though three years ago.

Yeah, he should have. Yes.

He should have just cut ties with these people.

Mhm. You know, like when it when it when they're in that kind of position, it gets weird when he's like friends with or associating with guys in academia and stuff like that because you're like, well, you know, funders come in and fund stuff.

Mhm.

And now we see a lot of that was a lot closer than that to be clear. But like when you're a lawyer at the Obama Justice Department, like the lawyer or in the Obama White House and you have that kind of access and you were dealing with this guy a ton who you know is a spy now.

Mhm.

You have to know you're going to be fried in this. It's there's just no way to look at it. And if you've got the kind of money that the general counsel at Goldman Sachs would have, then you hire a reputation recovery firm, right? And they're out there, reputation.com for, you know, average people like you and me.

Or Peggy Seagull.

And get ahead of this.

Yeah.

And And I don't think anybody thought to do that.

They did not. Mhm. And it's very clear that Jeffrey maintained all of his power or I should say almost all of his powerful contacts including new ones post conviction. You know, that's the oddest thing to me was that conviction. This is a child sex crime conviction. As entry level as it was for him because of the sweetheart deal, you think that that would send people screaming from the room and it didn't. It didn't set him back at all. He just jumped right in. Right back in. No problem. What do you think the angle with Bannon was looking at this? Because Bannon leaves the White House with Trump after he's fired.

And then from all the texts we can see, which are cringe, the emails we can see, he is essentially becoming that PR guy.

Yeah, he is.

For Jeffrey Epstein. He even has an email in there where he's like, "You have a [ __ ] jihad against you." The likes of which I've never seen and I've seen a lot of [ __ ]. And then, you know, they're following up emails on here where he's sending Jeffree articles and saying, "Well, this makes you sound like you're contrite." and you know talking about all this stuff and then he films them on camera for what was reported to be up to 18 hours worth of footage. We have like 2 to four hours of it or something through the files. You know, this is a guy Bannon who like I said goes way back to the 80s with all these people. Is he is he a spy? Like I've always believed that. Do you think that's plausible?

Plausible? Sure. Likely? I I can't imagine.

Why?

Because at the position that he was counselor to the president, he would have been vetted, should have been vetted nine ways from Sunday. He should have been the FBI should have been all over this. Of course, you know my position on the FBI. So.

Um.

But Howard, you say that Howard Luck makes the Congress advisor Leon Black's Leon Black's son works in the [ __ ] administration. Like, these are vetting 101.

Yeah, you're right. You're right. Sure. It's plausible. I'm trying to think what the hook would be, what what the vulnerability would be to recruit him because Bannon's almost a billionaire.

Right? He owns the rights to Seinfeld and a whole bunch of other things. He's worth the last I saw several years ago, he was worth $750 million. So, you're not going to recruit him with money.

Unless he was recruited before he got it.

Unless. Okay, that's a good point.

He always ends up in places. That's the thing. He's always in the right place.

He's long been in the right place at the right time. There was one phone call I was on with a guy who was talking my ear off back in 2022 that I another one of those like shiver up the spines because this was after I had read the Abbott piece. I was onto this with Steve Bannon and this dude was listing off a whole bunch of things and he starts talking about this guy Brock Mighty Ducks Brock guy. Can we Google that? Brock uh.

Brock Pierce.

Brock Pierce. You know about Brock Pierce?

No.

Brock Pierce is worth a [ __ ] ton of money. Made it. He was an Mighty Ducks actor. Ends up I'm going to really shorten this up for people, but he ends up in a partnership business-wise with this guy who ends up having these parties out in Hollywood where they the the guy is is boys, underage boys.

My god.

And that ends up coming out and then they all flee to Spain. That guy ends up getting arrested. He stands, I think he stands trial or makes a deal or something and then eventually gets permission to leave the country for some sort of surgery and never comes back and gets a new name.

But Rock, can you pull up as Wikipedia def cuz now it's in there and this is starting to like break open. I've been telling people to pull on this, but go down. Def. Brock ends up up a little more, more, more, more. Right. And up a little more. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, Brock ends up founding in 2001. Now, I'm going right off Wikipedia, people. He founded Internet Gaming Entertainment, a company that pioneered the MMORPG currency selling services industry. Between '04 and '05, IG spent more than $25 million buying out seven smaller competitors, including four auction platforms and many fan and content sites. In in '05, Pierce estimated the accounted for about 50% of this online market in the US, which has about $500 million in annual volume. Pierce brought in Steve Bannon, formerly of Goldman Sachs and Breitbart News, to seek venture capital, and a deal was made in February 2006, yielding $60 million, of which Pierce took away $20 million for a minority stake. The next year, the company faced a class action lawsuit with no assets. The company failed and Pierce was conveniently forced out. Now, go down to the Epstein section, Def. In February 2026, an investigation by the Kev Independent and newly released US Department of Justice documents on Jeffrey Epstein reported that the files included an email in which a man identified as Pierce, described as a co-founder of Tether, told Epstein that a boat in Antigua full of amazing uh Ukraine's finest was waiting for him. A separate analysis of the same document released by the crypto news outlet Proto stated that in 2012, after Epstein asked Pierce to take photos and find me a present during a trip to Moscow, Kev, and Odessa, which is where they would source a lot of underage women and traffic them. By the way, Pierce emailed Epstein dozens of photographs of the Ukrainian woman named Anastasia and closed the message by writing that Ukraine is now my favorite country. And in another email, he invited Epstein to join him on a boat in Antigua. Once again, full of Ukraine's finest. This is stuff that is now new online that I was told in 2002 directly about this. And just conveniently, this guy before he even blows up, he was a Mighty Ducks actor. Before he blows up as a businessman and before, like this person I was on the phone with also told me about his Jeffrey Epstein connections as well. Before that, he just happens to bring in Steve Bannon to this video game community that also then this is where it gets above my pay grade, but it has and pull that mic around because I want you to say what you're going to say, but it has to do with moving money online that's like through video game coins that can be laundered into other stuff. Maybe people out there can help me, but go ahead.

I was going to say because it was a big thing that China had first gotten involved with with the video game Runescape. They'd sell in-game currency for real money. But this is weird. And I'm only going to bring this point up for you to pull on if you want. This whole conspiracy that they keep seeing all this activity from Epstein's account on Fortnite and all these video games. Just think that's a weird little connection now to know that Bannon was involved with that. Just saying. I don't know.

Yeah, that's crazy.

It's weird.

I don't know, man. And he's still very much an insider in Washington. He's got his podcast. He's got a house on Capitol Hill.

He's the war room.

Yep.

Yeah.

What do we do? Do you just blow it all up?

You know what? We're going to have to. We're going to have to like, even if it means taking to the streets, demand the release of all the remaining documents. We have to. They have to be released. First of all, the law mandates that they be released. It's not at the pan body or anybody else. They have to be released. That's the law. And then we need to rely on people like you to go through these things and make sense of them. How about all the code words they're using?

Yeah. See, now that's another thing. See, and this is we're weakened by the fact that we can't charge people with crimes. You know, imagine how easy how much easier it would be to say, "Look, you're involved in this. We've got a conspiracy charge hanging over you. You're going to do at least 5 years or you can tell us what all these code words mean and walk us through this one step at a time and then we'll figure out, you know, something a little easier." But DOJ can't do that. There's one that's used in there that DeF and I were looking at this morning and you know your brain runs in a lot of different directions where it says jerky. And there was a guy who did a nice breakdown of this. De, let me give you this dude. I actually have it right here. So I want to give him a shout out. This is Dr. G explains on YouTube. And what I liked is he didn't. He even when it was obvious where it's like, all right, we can definitely make some sort of like this type of conclusion there. He didn't. He just reported the [ __ ] emails. But the way they're they refer to, "We need more jerky. We need to put it in the fridge. We need this number of pounds of it. We have to cook it." This email right here that De pulled up says, "How is your jerky situation? Should I bring any more?" And there's another email to Jeffrey Epstein from Unknown. Francis has time to come tomorrow to show me how to make it. Jerky class, anyone? It will also he will also bring you a taste of his new jerky recipe from the restaurant and sends a warm hello. He is working at a restaurant called Cannibal and Cooks. Is this real?

This is from Jmail.

Wait for it. Beef jerky and steak. He has time at 3 PM tomorrow if this is okay with you. And they refer to like, didn't they refer to storing it like chemically?

No. In freezers.

In free. Yeah.

That's why I thought blood.

I mean.

See, this is why we need the rest of these documents.

The whole thing is a 4chan.

Yeah. A dream.

Yeah. I will freely admit it.

You're right.

Yeah.

They did what?

Steve sent me some.

There's also an Epstein connection to the creator of 4chan, quote, moot.

And how. No, you're good. And how he and Bannon helped to create.

Politics.

r/politics, which basically created the alt-right pipeline that helped Trump win the election. It just goes deeper and deeper and deeper. Okay. Can you pull up the Peter Thiel Brexit email exchange?

Yeah.

With with with Epstein 2016. June 2016.

It's probably not in.

I I have this one about the collapse. Is that what you're talking about?

Yes. Okay. So, Epstein, you know what's crazy, bro? I remember. Oh god, that's so weird. I remember where I was when this happened, too. This wasn't that far away. Okay, so Brexit, he sends to Peter Thiel, Brexit, just the beginning. Peter Thiel responds of what? And Epstein goes, "Return to tribalism, counter to globalization, amazing new alliances. You and I both agreed zero interest rates were too high. And as I said in your office, finding things on their way to collapse was much easier than finding the next bargain. This is where the whole bankers profiting off of war. And obviously Peter Thiel is not a banker. Jeffrey worked in finance for bankers and stuff, but like they're from the banker class, if you will. This is where I look at that and go, well, here you go. Wow. Oh my god.

I've never seen you so speechless this much.

I feel bad that I'm so shocked that I can't contribute very much. It's so overwhelming. It's so sickening. I I didn't realize it was this deep. Incredible. And you know, Jeffrey Epstein aside, and Glenn Maxwell, of course, these are the people that are still running the country.

Yes.

Literally.

They're running the economy.

Notice the vice president hasn't said anything.

Not a word.

Recently.

Not a single word.

That's his chief funer right there.

Yes, it is.

He also had a.

He created JD Vance.

Yes. But actually before that, are you aware that JD Vance had a fundraiser dinner at Les Wexner's house in 2017?

That I I was not aware, but that actually doesn't surprise me.

It doesn't?

No, because Les Wexner was the guy in Columbus, Ohio. And if you're a Republican in Ohio, you need to kiss the ring.

Yeah. I did not know it though. If remove our own guilt in this for a second because we definitely have some that I I do believe and again I'm very open to changing my opinion on things but I do believe in this situation CIA and US intelligence has blood on its hands with all this. I I just don't see a scenario where they don't. But you also have other governments that do as well.

Yes.

And it's it's multiple. It's an ally like the UK.

Mhm.

It's an ally like Israel where we know Jeffrey had significant contacts including Ehud Barak. It also came out in the emails that the US uh the the Israeli UN security team came over to install all of his security at his place. Oh, you didn't see. Can we pull up this email?

Are you kidding me?

John's having a [ __ ] crisis of conscious right now. I'm sorry. There's been a lot of me talking the last half hour while John's just like questioning everything.

All right, so this is from Mario Nall. Israeli government.

Oh, I just talked to Mario two days ago.

No, there you go. The chances. Israeli government installed security systems at Epstein's Manhattan building where he housed underage models. Starting 2016, Israeli mission to the UN coordinated with Epstein's staff to install alarm sensors and surveillance equipment. Rafi Schlommo, who you know, I said this earlier, very Russian name. Head of security for former Israeli PM Audac personally controlled access to the apartment, did background checks on cleaners, remotely disabled alarms when people needed to enter, and Epstein personally approved it all. The emails are right there. I read these in the solo episode the other day, but this this tweets up on the screen. Just if you wouldn't mind, DeF, just pulling up the email so people can see it.

But this is the back and forth. And then the other one, I think also this is where they're going through the details, but then this is where it's laid out with Ehud's name in there and everything. I believe Neilia Hood was on the other email, his wife, I assume, but they're going through the whole things of what they're going to be wiring. And it seems like they have a pretty chummy relationship.

It sure seems that way. And Jeffrey doesn't mind holes in the walls. Of course, we learned that in spades at the island house. Wow, man.

Did you see Netanyahu's response to.

No.

The Ehud Barak?

I'd love to hear it. I'm paraphrasing here, but he said, "This actually proves that we are not guilty because Ehud Barak has attempted to overthrow the entire Israeli order as a political opponent for many years and operated." I don't know if he said in like the George Soros crowd or something like that, but he was like insinuating like, you know, anti-Israel. And we're talking about a dude, Ehud Barak, who does have opposite politics in many cases. Yeah. To Netanyahu, except in the case of, you know, trying to grow Israel, which, you know, that's that's what they're trying to do. How they do that is certainly the question. But, you know, to say that about a dude who is like within Israel, a legendary special forces guy.

Yeah.

Who got. We have that the [ __ ] New York City shot from the movie Munich right there where he gets a shout out in the [ __ ] movie while they're doing while Mossad is doing some of the [ __ ] right? And then he becomes prime minister eventually, defense minister and everything.

But being with Epstein is a way to show.

That you're innocent. That seems a little.

No, he's flailing around.

Right?

Unbelievable.

Is it unconscionable because of the public's reaction if that information were flatout confirmed by both governments? Is it an unconscionable act for an allyship between the two nations?

No, it's not.

No, no. This is going to be a little blip. A temporary blip. Oh, listen. The Israelis. The the pro-Israel lobby, mostly in the form of Apac, is so entrenched in American politics, American society, American culture that the relationship isn't changing at all. It's only because of the likes of of Tucker Carlson, people with large followings out there speaking truth and talking about what America First really means.

That might make a difference. People are going to they're going to say, "Oh, well, that Barak, well, first of all, he's a has been. Secondly, h you know, that was a long time ago. It's almost 10 years ago, and it's not Netanyahu. Netanyahu is the one in charge now." That's going to be the reaction. But the public is so aware of some of these things though now because of many people on the left and right. It's a very bipartisan thing.

Very much so. Yes. And so you think even in this kind of year it would be a blip if we found out that had some sort of confirmation that the most prolific known public pedophile spy dude, arms dealer, trilateral commission person, Coney Island resident, you know, was running a Mossad honeypot operation with all the above and money laundering.

We just moved. They they didn't they didn't care for more than a few weeks when Jonathan Pollard was caught red-handed and they were managing the operation from the Israeli defense minister's office.

Rafi was overseeing it, I believe.

Right. Um, it didn't matter and the Israelis hemmed and hawed and then kind of quietly apologized and everything just kind of roared right back. And I think that's we're going to see again. So, here's the other thing. A lot of people say online and I and I understand why they say it, but I have you in the studio right now as someone who used to be in the intelligence community who can speak to this, but people will often say CIA equals Mossad, Mossad equals CIA.

It's just simply not true.

Okay.

That that's a statement made out of ignorance.

Yeah.

Now, why why do you say that?

Because I agree with you from what you've told me, but I'd love for you to explain it to everybody. The because the Mossad actively spies on the United States. Actively. Yes, we have a close operational relationship with Mossad. But to say we're two peas in a pod like that, absolutely not true. We are with the Brits, the Canadians, the Australians, the New Zealanders, the Five Eyes countries. We have very close relations with several other, you know, NATO countries. But the Israelis, listen, at the CIA, Israel was ranked as critical threat for counter intelligence along with Russia, China, Cuba, and North Korea. Yeah, the Israelis are not our friends. They actively recruit Americans to spy on Israel's behalf, to betray the United States. Now, the people who make those arguments though, one place where I could see from their lens is when you look at the top of the chain with say directors of these agencies who are political appointees, you have a guy like Mike Pompeo who ran CIA who could not possibly be more pro-Israel, right?

Not possible to be more pro-Israel than Mike Pompeo. So is it possible that there are some pockets where there is some overlap?

But for the most part, as you're saying, the rank and file and people who work at the agencies, they don't really like each other.

Sure. Yeah. It's it's possible to say that and you know, presidents come and go, administrations change. The the relationship is is, you know, fraternal.

Right.

At the working level, it's not so nice.

The last thing today, John. This this has been good, but I know I'm some of this is like, I'm intellectually exhausted now. I'm very upset by all this.

I can see. So I I don't I don't want to.

Like what happened to our country.

I don't want to torture you. But I do have to get to the one thing that we left off from the beginning, which is what you heard about the whole Iran thing. I'm not going to say anything. I'm just going to let you go with whatever you're allowed to say. So, I have I have a friend, uh, former CIA officer who was at the White House this morning talking to his friends and he says that a decision has been made to attack Iran on Monday or Tuesday. The president yesterday gave the Iranians 10 days to uh to, you know, accept our proposals for an end to their ballistic missile program, an end to to uh their uranium enrichment program, an end to supporting um groups in the Middle East like Hamas and Hezbollah and the Houthis. But he's done this before. Well, he'll he'll give you 10 days, he'll give you two weeks, and then he'll just attack two days into it. He thinks that that keeps people off balance. Um, the USS Abraham Lincoln has been in the Arabian Sea for weeks. We've got about two dozen support ships in the Persian Gulf, the Arabian Sea, the Red Sea, and the Eastern Mediterranean. We've got the USS Gerald Ford, which is in Gibraltar right now. It's it's passing through the straits of Gibraltar like today on its way to uh the Eastern Mediterranean and probably through the Suez Canal into the Red Sea. So we're we're going to have enough assets to attack Iran in the next couple of days. And so he said that there are battle lines that the anti-war forces are JD Vance and Tulsi Gabbard. He said that the pro. That's it. He said, "The pro-war people are led by Marco Rubio and include Pete Hegseth and now the Joint Chiefs of Staff." And I I stopped him on that point this morning and I said, "Wait a minute." I said, "During the Iraq war, at the start of the Iraq war, the most stridently anti-war component was the Joint Chiefs of Staff. They were always the last ones that wanted to attack because they know what war is." And he said, "Ah, but you forget Trump has replaced all of the Joint Chiefs this year, this past in the past 12 months," which I had forgotten. Any of these four-star generals who, you know, had worked their way up through the ranks, but had served under Biden, he fired all of them. All of them. And he promoted people that he knew would be politically loyal. M.

So I, you know, Julian, I've always been one of these glass half full guys. I'm.

Me too.

I've always been optimistic about things and I've been saying a lot in my own podcasts and written pieces. You know, we we went through round one with the Omanis in Muscat. We went through round two with Swiss in Geneva. Both sides came out and said, "These were both productive uh meetings. We're going to go to round three. Everything's looking good. The Omanis are asking us to just relax and let them do what they're good at." The Omanis are really, really good at diplomacy. Really good. They're very, very good friends. Um, and they're honest, so the Iranians trust them as well. And I think that none of that really matters right now. I think a decision's been made.

Do you think this is to distract from the current scandal?

Uh, probably in part. Yeah.

How about them saying they're going to release the UFO files last night, which I've wanted released forever, but.

I know, right? I mean, we've been talking about this for years.

The timing.

Yeah. Yes.

Yep.

Same movie over and over again. Different actors, just remakes. And you remember, you're probably a little bit too young, but in the '90s, the movie Wag the Dog was like, you know, people had their hair on fire. Oh my god, that look, this movie is about the president made a war to distract from his affair. It's like, yeah, how quaint that is now.

So quaint.

That seems to be all that happens. And people have short memories.

Well, I hope that I will take that clip and put that out tomorrow, Saturday, so that we can maybe get some attention on that to see if somehow that little ripple ends up making its way to change some decisions because.

One of the promises of of of Trump's campaign was no more endless wars, right?

Going into Iran is entirely different than going into Venezuela. 92 million people. It's a gigantic country. It's bigger than Texas and it has 92 million people. And I think that at the White House, they have just they have just bitten right into this Israeli propaganda, the same kind of propaganda we got in 2003, that as soon as we cross that border, they're going to throw flowers at us and they're going to greet us as liberators and we're all going to live happily ever after and everybody's going to get rich on the new oil deals. And that's just not going to happen. It never happens. Crazy world, John.

It is, man.

Well, I'm sorry to blow your mind a few times today.

I was I'm not often stunned into speechlessness.

You also blew my mind as regular, though. That happens every single time. Like you just that your life experiences are insane. And I'm really, you know, jokes aside with the memes. So happy to see you getting the attention you deserved and have deserved for a long time for people that are just learning about John online. Your story had a long very unfair downswing to it that you know.

It's been an odyssey, that's for sure.

Getting back. We all get a good laugh, you know, out of these memes, but this this was deadly serious.

Oh yeah, no doubt about it. But I'm I'm really happy to see it and we'll continue supporting it here.

Good to see you again. It's great to see you as always, sir.

Thank you.

All right.

Take care.

Everybody else, you know what it is. Give it a thought. Get back to me. Hopefully, we're not at war with [ __ ] Iran. Peace. Thank you as always for watching this video, guys. If you have not already subscribed, please hit that subscribe button as well as that like button before you leave. See you for the next episode.

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“Epstein LIES!” - CIA John Kiriakou ERUPTS on Satanic Elite, Mossad & Most STUNNING Files | 388

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