A Blueprint for Making Disciples in Your Church feat. Robby Gallaty (2016 Nat'l Forum)

I'm Bobby Harrington, and I welcome you all back for our last session. Robbie Gallat is going to be bringing our Forum to a close, as he's going to talk to us about making disciples—making it practical and doable for everyday Christians. Robbie is the lead Pastor here at Long Hollow Baptist Church; he's also the author of many books, and he is a huge advocate of disciple making. So let's listen to Robbie as he brings our time together to a close with his teaching on making disciple making a practical reality. Amen.

Good afternoon. Try it again for those excited to be here. Good afternoon. Amen. Anybody excited, uh, about the conference? Uh, that you're glad you came? Anybody excited they came and glad that came? Uh, let's give the Lord a hand one more time for our worship team—that's uh, that's uh our Long Hollow worship team. We get to worship like that every week, and uh, it's a it's a joy to worship with them. My wife, Candy, loved the opportunity to be here. Our team uh has enjoyed being with you. You know, there's how many places you can be with like-minded brothers and sisters, surrounded by people who know that the only thing Jesus authorized us to do is to make disciples. Amen. And that's what I want to talk to you about. I want to give you a strategy to kind of send you out—to send us out—to change the world. Um, to send us out to change the world. I I want to make a statement: I believe with all of my heart, and that is I believe a return to biblical disciple making will enact the Reformation of the 21st century. I know that's a bold statement, but here here's why I say that. If you remember the Reformation back in Martin Luther's day, it was a return to the priesthood of Believers—that any man or woman filled with the spirit of God, wielding the word of God, could understand it for themselves. Now think about what we're doing here in discipleship: we are empowering the people of God, the saints of God—any color, any race, any background, any creed, any socioeconomic status—with the spirit of God, wielding the word of God, can do the ministry of God for the glory of God. Amen. And that's why I believe it will enact the Reformation of the 21st century.

Now, before I begin to speak about disciple making, one of the things you realize about this conference is that there are no perfect models, right? We all have different models, but we believe there are some that are useful, and we believe those that are here are useful models to accomplish the same goal, which is to equip the Saints for the work of ministry. Let me give you a definition—we live by this kind of a definition personally, that we live by here at Long Hollow. It's been a definition of my own life, and I just kind of drive what we're going to talk about about, and that is we believe disciple making is intentionally equipping Believers with the word of God—the Bible's the textbook, right—uh, through accountable relationships, empowered by the Holy Spirit, in order to replicate faithful followers of Christ.

Now why do we—where do we get that? We get that from Jesus. If you have your Bibles, turn with me to Matthew 28, and I want to show you Jesus's final words, and I want to challenge you to make it your first work. I want us to look at Jesus's final words, and I want it—want it—to be for us our first work as we go out. Now you know this well, but I want to speak it uh from a different perspective. Verse 16: "The 11 disciples traveled to Galilee to the mountain where Jesus had directed them. When they saw him, they worshiped him, but some doubted." And Jesus came—came near—and said to them, "All authority has been given to me in heaven and on Earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe everything I have commanded you, and remember, I am with you always to the end of the age." Let me give you three things about this text I think are important for us to understand.

The first thing that's always confused me is the posture of the disciples. Hasn't that confused you? Because the text says that some of them—most of them—were worshiping, but how many doubted? Some doubted. Has that bothered anybody? Like, like what are they doubting, right? I I preached a series years ago called "Discourses After Death." A lot of people preach on the sayings leading up to the Cross of Christ. I wanted to know what Jesus said after the cross, and so I had a seven-part sermon series. Now, if you don't know what part of life Jesus is in when he speaks to these men, you can assume that they're doubting who he is, right? Right? Like, like is this really the Son of God? Is this uh, is Jesus the Messiah? Is Jesus really here? You can almost assume that. But if you understand—don't miss this—that this is the fourth encounter of Jesus with his disciples, you realize that that's not what they're doubting. Remember John 20: Jesus appears in that upper room with the locked doors; Thomas is there. Remember he says, "If I don't see and feel and touch, I'm not going to believe." Then in John 20, a few moments later, Thomas is there. Seven or eight days later, then on the Sea of Galilee, John 21—that's the third encounter. So this is the fourth encounter. So the question is, what are they doubting? That word "doubt" is an interesting word; it means to waver, or it means to—watch this—to be hesitant about a particular course of action. So what are they hesitant about? I think they're hesitant—don't miss this—about themselves. I I don't think they're doubting Jesus at all; in fact, I I think they're doubting themselves, and you can't blame them. What just happened to the man who was leading the ministry? He just died on a cross just moments before, and I believe they're probably saying to one another, "Do you really think, Peter, we can do this thing? I mean, what if we get punished for speaking? What if we get persecuted? You know, Thomas, what if we get imprisoned or worse—what if we get killed?"

Now, understanding that, I want you to feel the weight of what I'm about to say. Now we know why Jesus starts the Great Commission with this phrase. They're talking to one another: "What if we get beaten? What if we get persecuted?" Jesus probably doesn't say this, but maybe in the text, Jesus says, "Quiet! All authority in heaven and on Earth has been given to me." You know, worship and doubt cannot coexist, and so what Jesus does is he moves their fear to faith, and here's—here's what he says: he says, "Don't focus on yourself; focus on me," and then he gives us the Great Commission. So watch what he does: he moves the disciples' focus from the posture of themselves to the Providence of God. You see what he says: "All authority in heaven and on Earth has been given to me." Did you catch in the Great Commission the four inclusive words? All four times you see the same word. All four times did you see it? "All authority in heaven and on Earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of what? All nations. Uh, teach them to obey some of what I've commanded? No, no, all of what I've commanded you," right? And then finally, "I will be with you always to the end of the age." Now, how could Jesus commission them to make disciples? Don't miss this, because it wasn't theoretical discipleship for him. See, you have to understand—don't miss this—everything up to this point has led to this command. Every miracle he performed, every lesson he taught, every healing he did, uh, every gathering he—he—he collected the disciples, all led up to this punctiliar point in time when Jesus says, "Go therefore and make disciples."

Here's one adage I want to give you—this is kind of a mantra for leaders I really believe we need to live by. Here's the mantra: you can't expect from others what you're not emulating yourself. Amen. Like, like we can't expect our people to be passionate about prayer if we're not passionate about prayer. Amen. We can't expect our people to be in the word until the word gets into them if we're not in the word. We can't expect our people to be engaged in discipling relationships if we're not engaged in discipling relationships. And more importantly, we can't expect our kids to be on fire for Jesus if Mom or Dad—you're not on fire for Jesus, right? And so we expect, but we first emulate that before them, and that's what Jesus did. But he doesn't stop there; he doesn't just say, "All—all authorities 'm' in heaven and all authorities 'm' on Earth." Notice how he finishes. Jesus moves the disciples from the posture of themselves to the Providence of God. Watch this, then to the plan of action, and here's the plan of action: "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations." What is he doing? He's showing them two things in the plan: "Make disciples of all nations." If you're taking notes, "Make disciples of all nations." What—what does he mean here? We know the imperative is "make disciples"; baptizing, teaching, and going are all participles that hold up the mantle of disciple making. Notice what he doesn't say: he doesn't say, "Go make decisions"—we've done that for years. "Go make converts," he doesn't say that. He doesn't even say, "Go make Christians." And the reason he doesn't say, "Go make Christians," is because the word "Christian"—get this—is only used three times in the entire Bible. Did you know that? Two of those times are actually uh a negative derision, according to Harper's Dictionary. So three times you find the word "Christian" in the entire New Testament. Guess how many times you find the word "disciple"? Write this down: 269 times—238 times alone in the—in the New Testament Gospels. So the question is, what does Jesus want us to make: Christians or disciples? I'm not downplaying "Christian"; "Christian" is a static term; it's a stative term; uh, in the Greek language, it's—it's a descriptive term. "Disciple" is an empowered term; it's a dynamic term; it—it expects action from it—to be a disciple—to be a learner, right?

Now, who is Jesus talking to here? Is he talking to Seminary professors? This is audience participation part. Is he talking to Seminary professors? No, he's talking to what we believe is—or are—teenagers. These are average, ordinary men who've been looked over and overlooked by society, and Jesus says, "I want to give you some direction." Now, why did he give them that plan? Here's one of the things I've found from years of pastoring churches and learning my own self about discipleship: is that when our people in the pews—and padded seats as you're in today—but our people in the padded seats, when they don't know what to do, they don't do anything at all. They don't do anything at all. And so a lot of well-meaning Christians are filling our churches week in and week out, and they want to grow closer to Jesus. People in your church want to grow closer to Jesus; they don't know what to do, and when they don't know what to do, they don't do anything at all. And it doesn't just happen in churches; it happens all over. Conventions—we were at the Southern Baptist Convention uh, the convention part of which uh I'm a pastor—a couple years ago, Tim LaHaye and I, who's on staff, we had a booth there; uh, it was a prominent spot; it was right behind LifeWay Christian Resources, and so everybody who came out of the bookstore came to our booth; uh, and Tim began to ask the pastors the same question. He conducted an informal survey, and here's the question he asked: he said, "How many"—he asked every Pastor he met—"how many of you have put together a comprehensive strategy for making disciples in your church?" He asked roughly 50 pastors—leading pastors—mention their names, you'd know. Guess how many people said yes? Zero. Close to zero. You were very gracious, brother, he said, "One"—zero. Now, one in his defense said, "Had gathered all the data, we just don't know what to do with it," right? So he—he understood that he had a problem, but he didn't know what to do with it. So here's what I've asked for years: why have we only now started talking about discipleship when for years we have focused on other things? Have you ever thought about that? Anybody thought about that? I thought about that for years. Let me preface what I'm about to say by saying this on the record: I love the King James Version of the Bible. Did everybody hear what I just said? Okay. I love—and here's why I say that—because I have not given the disclaimer, Bobby and I've gotten emails, so don't send me any emails. I love the King James Version of the Bible. I collect Bible leaves; I have a King James Version on my wall. However, when the translators translated the original Greek and Hebrew into that old English, they decided to make one translation era, which I believe is the culprit that has kept us as a church in a discipleship coma for 400 years. It is one word in this—in this Commission of God that I believe has kind of sidetracked us in—in a sense, and it's the word "teach." Now you can go look online—1611 King James—go look up Matthew 28:19. Here's what it reads: "Go ye therefore, and what? Teach all nations." And so for 300 years—so the early 1920s—there was no Bible that rivaled the King James Version of the Bible, and so I think for years well-meaning Christians have gone to the nations to teach, to set up seminaries, and to teach classes, and to lead crusades, and to preach the word—all of which are necessary, all of which we need—but you and I both know discipleship is way more than teaching. See, I like to tell people the way I define discipleship sometimes is by telling you what it's not. Discipleship is not a curriculum; discipleship is not a class; it's not a 12-week home study; it's not a 40 days of meeting; it's all of those things and more. Here's how I like to define it: discipleship is not a class you take. Watch this: it's the course of your life; it's—it's something you do inherently; it's something you do organically.

I want to share with you I think what became the "aha" moment of my personal ministry. The church I was pastoring before—for Long Hollow—uh, was a wonderful church in Chattanooga, Tennessee. Bill's been there before; Bobby's been there as well. It's a wonderful church—still a great church, great congregation—uh, but when I was a new pastor at 33 years old of this congregation, I stood on the platform before my people, and I felt the pressure of growing a church. Anybody been there before? And it wasn't just the people in the pews' fault; it was also the leadership of the church, and I think it's because we have used business metrics to gauge spiritual measurements, and I—I think that's one of the problems. But I felt this pressure, and I got caught up in what I call "escalator evangelism." Have you heard of this before? This is the idea that we want to get as many people into the church doors so that we can talk to them, and we wouldn't say this out loud, but we would say it to ourselves unconsciously or subconsciously: we want you to come so that you can come to church so that we can overlook you and get your friend to come next week, right? "Pack a pew Friday; bring a friend Wednesday," you know, "these say potlucks on Sunday." And so we wouldn't say this verbally, but we would think this internally, and then so when your friend comes the next week, we can say, "Hey, we're glad you're here, but we're really not interested in you because we don't want you; we want your friend behind you," right? And here's what happens in that American church that we know so well: people were going out the back door as fast as they were coming in the front door. Now I know this doesn't happen in your church, but I've heard of churches that—it happens in all of our churches if we're honest, right? And here's what—what it's like. I know you think, "Well, that doesn't seem like a big deal." It would be like you having a newborn infant coming to a brand new church you've never been to before, asking where the nursery department is, and they say, "Hey, you can leave your child in the nursery, but unfortunately there are no workers to watch your child, but it's fine; just leave the baby and you come back after service." Would you ever, in your right mind, go into the nursery with a three-week-old baby, place the baby on its back, and as you're leaving say, "Hey, by the way," throwing a bottle into the room, "Hey, take care of yourself; feed yourself; we'll be back in an hour and a half to get you." Would you ever do that? You never do that to a newborn child. Why? Because the child cannot feed itself. You know, we do that every week; we call it the church. Brand-new born-again babes in Christ walk in, sign a card, meet us at the next steps area, and here's what we say: we pat him on the back and we say, "Suck it up, Joe; we'll see you next—next week," and we expect them to grow themselves, and we wonder why we're in the predicament that we're in, right?

Here's what the Lord showed me—the radical change, the shift of my entire ministry. Here's what the Lord showed me years ago: "Robbie, you stop focusing on the width and the breadth of your ministry"—that's something I do—"you grow the depth of your people." You see it here. Here's in essence what God was leading me to see: "Robbie, you focus on the depth of your disciples, and I'll grow the breadth of your ministry." And we don't hear that today because many churches are saying, "You grow the—the width of the ministry and the breadth of the ministry," let people focus on the depth of themselves. And I want to tell you, when I began to see that, it started to change things, and I think I'm afraid that for too many years we spent a lot of time showing people how to share their faith; we haven't taught them how to share their life. It's a big difference. And one of the things we're—we're showing our church here at Long Hollow—and Long Hollow has been a great church and an evangelistic church and—and a church that reaches out to people—and we're showing our people, and this is kind of the big moment here at our church and churches in the past, is that baptism is not the finish line; it's the starting line. I think if you get nothing else, get that: baptism is not the finish line; it's the starting line. And the reason we're not seeing more of a people evangelistic, I think, is because we're probing them and prodding them to go out and share their faith, and what they're saying is, "I don't have anything to share," why? Because I'm drawing from an empty well. And so the greatest evangelistic strategy we have is a disciple-making strategy. Here's why: because when someone falls in love with Jesus, guess what? They can't help but talk about him; they can't help but share; they can't help but tell people; they can't help but raise a holy hand and worship. You know how I know that's true? Look at what happened to you; look at what happened to me. When God's on your mind, he comes out of your mouth. Remember, God doesn't just save you from something; God saves you for something, right? And that "for" is to make disciples.

Finally, just quickly, just to give you this last section: do you know there are actually two imperatives—two commands—in the Great Commission? A lot of people say there's one command: "Make disciples." Did you know there's actually two: "Make disciples," going, baptizing, teaching? But there's a second imperative in verse 20. Do you see it? It's the little word "lo"—it's the word "behold," or "surely"—surely I will be with you to the end of the days. Now, why would Jesus command us, "Surely, behold, I'll be with you to the end of the age"? Here's why: because he knew that disciple making was tough. Can anybody amen to that? Why is it tough? Because we're dealing with people, and people are messy—just like you're messy, and I'm messy, and we're all messy. And Jesus said, "When it gets tough, don't throw in the towel; focus on me." Let me finish with one thing before we close, and I want you to—to—to hear this, and—and you've heard this from all of us: the bedrock of all discipleship is the word.

Of God, remember this: you never graduate beyond the Bible. Like you can get a degree, you can get a master's degree, you can get a PhD, you get a DMin—you never get a degree in the Bible. Why? Because its depth, width, and breadth is unexhausted.

And one of the things I want you to know about your discipling time is you don't have to make the Bible relevant. You don't. You don't have to dress the Bible up. You just need to let the Bible do the work. When you work the word, and when you get into the word, the word gets into you, right?

I heard of a story of a man in South America; he was a Gideon missionary. I'll finish with this story, uh, who would go to the remote parts of the world, and uh, he would take these little Gideon Bibles and he would give them out to people who would take them. He's up in the mountains of a South American, uh, small village, and uh, he's giving out Bibles, and he hears that there's a man in town who's the local drug dealer who is actually ruining the town by selling drugs and importing drugs. And so this missionary goes up to him and says, "Hey, uh, brother, would you like a Bible?" The missionary looks at the—or the man looks at the Bible, he opens it up, he looks at the pages and he says, "Man, if you give me this Bible, the only thing I'm going to do is take these pages, rip them out, and roll joints and smoke them." Well, the missionary was quick on his feet, and he thought quickly, and he said, "I tell you what, I don't care if you do that, just promise me you'll read the page before you smoke it."

True story. Confirm this with a Gideon in my church who said he saw this Bible missionary. Left for about three years, came back to the same village. He heard that a revival had taken place, and the revival was started because of the conversion of a man who was once formerly a drug addict who had now become not only a believer, but he was the pastor of the community. And he found out it was the man that he gave the Bible to. And so he went and found the man and he said, "Hey, listen, what happened? Can you tell me what what happened?" And the man said, "You want me to be honest with you?" He said, "I do." He said, "Well, I smoked through Matthew, and then I smoked through Mark, and then I smoked through Luke." He said, "True," he said, "I smoked through Luke," he said, "But when I got to John, John smoked me." He said, "It's the power of the word of God." Friends, don't miss this: you don't have to dress the Bible up. Don't underestimate, as a disciple-maker, the empowerment of the spirit of God in your life and wielding the word of God for the glory of God, to invest in the people of God. Remember, there are only three things in this world that are eternal, three things that will last forever: God, his word, and the souls of men and women. And I don't know about you, I don't want my legacy remembered just for the sermons I've crafted, or the pages of books I've written, or the successes I've had in the world. I want my legacy to be remembered on the hearts of men and women I've invested in. Amen.

Father, we thank you for our time, and God, what a joy it is to be challenged and encouraged. For Your Glory we ask it in Jesus' name. Amen. Amen. Robbie, that was that was really wonderful. Thank you for that encouragement. Thank you for sitting down with us.

Well, folks, we're here for our last session. Uh, hasn't it been good so far, just being here with all these folks? And yeah, yeah, so good. Uh, we wanted to make sure that we were done by four because there's some important things we want to do. We want to talk about what Robbie's just told us, and then uh, we want to uh honor uh somebody who's uh uh come down to us today from Kentucky, uh, and uh I'm going to uh ask him to introduce himself in just a second, uh, but it's Robert Coleman, and uh uh we're just so glad that you're with us, Dr. Coleman, and uh we look forward to you honoring us. And we're going to ask Robert Coleman to uh conclude our time together by praying a blessing over our 10 organizations and a blessing over each and every one of you who are here with us. Amen. But before we do that, let's talk about the gauntlet that you have just laid down, mister, uh, and we'll do that after we have everybody introduced themselves. So Jeff, will you start, and then we'll come across to uh Bill, and then Dr. Coleman.

My name is Jeff Casiah. I'm the National Field Director for Man in the Mirror, a ministry founded by Patrick Morley 30 years ago. We look to serve pastors, to train leaders, to see God transform the lives of men.

Thanks, Jeff. I'm Bill Hall, and I lead the Bonhoeffer Project, and it's wonderful to be here.

It's wonderful to have you here. And I'm Robert Coleman. I'm honored just to be here, a part of this distinguished group.

Oh, good. We'll say a little bit more uh Bill, by the way, there's a mic behind you if you'd like your own mic, that way you and uh Dr. Coleman, we, by the way, uh uh his name is Robert Coleman, but all of us who know him well just just refer to him as Dr. Coleman, because it's the just a a term of affection that we have for him. Dr. Coleman is a uh term, I think it was Clim, wasn't it? Yeah, okay. Yeah, that's right. All right. Well, let's uh talk about Matthew 28 and uh The Gauntlet that Robbie has laid down. Um, one of the things I want to start with actually uh uh to my left here, to your right, uh not only we have Dr. Coleman who wrote the book, the uh uh literally the gold standard on disciple-making, *The Master Plan of Evangelism*, some 53 years ago, but beside him in Bill Hull, we have the guy who's written over 22 or 23 books on discipleship and disciple-making, including *The Complete Book of Discipleship*. Get off my back about that, would you? So uh what I'd like for for us to begin with is you reacting to what Robbie was saying about the King James until you said that I actually uh never connected those dots that uh the fact that uh the King James did not have "make disciples" had such a huge influence. So Bill, I want you to jump in and and Dr. Coleman on that as well.

All right. I had an experience when I was over in uh one of the stands, I can't remember which one now, but uh I was with a a godly man, a a good teacher, and he was was using the King James Bible, and so he kept talking about going and teaching all the nations, and he was waxing eloquent about the importance of world evangelization and so on. And at some point over lunch, I didn't want to raise my hand during the session and create any kind of problem, but I said, "You do know that there's a command in there, it's 'make disciples,' and uh you haven't talked about that, that so what are you doing about that?" He says, "Well, I I was weaned on the King James Bible, and so I just feel more comfortable using that, and so for that reason I don't talk about making disciples." So I said, "Well, it's pretty important." And so I can see how that happened, and that's a very interesting thing, but I also believe that this discussion you were having last night about about making disciples and discipleship and disciple-making and the terminology, I sort of call this the Tower of Babel problem where we have—we're all using the same words but we're speaking a different language. And I believe there needs to be some cohesion, but when it comes to uh making disciples, I I I I'm with the school that—and I that says making disciples begins with before people become Christians, in developing them, and then they become followers of Jesus. But the finish line, as Robbie was saying, is not that you know if you put a cross there and say, "Okay, that you crossed that, you got you got there, uh you got your uh your union card, you're in," but then the the exact when you make a disciple it's somebody who actually is making other disciples. So I think the target is not the cross, the target is over here on the other side, which is a a mature follower of Jesus who's teaching other people. But I also agreed with Randy Pope that it should not be the, you know, the 14th thing you do as far as you're being a disciple, because really a new believer can make disciples in the sense that they can influence people they know and they care about.

Yeah. All right. Let's uh let's stick with this: why is disciple-making and discipleship new? Why is it that we're all waking up to this conversation uh and the fundamental importance of it now in ways that we haven't before? So part of it is the language of the King James uh um but uh other parts as we've said are the idea on getting converts, getting people saved—there was such an emphasis on get them saved—um any other factors going on uh that are causing it not to be so emphasized? Jeff, I'm going to ask you to jump in here. You're from an organization that has had the tagline, "Until every church disciples every man." Do you have any uh thoughts you want to share on this with us?

Several decades ago, there was a tremendous movement when men showed up in stadiums, but there was a challenge that took place when those men returned back to local churches. We were not ready to receive and to respond to them. Now, there were a few maverick leaders mixed into those stadium events that try to come back and hijack the vision of the church into a men's ministry mindset. We would espouse a ministry to men to leverage every interaction local church has to reach and disciple men at whatever stage of the journey. So the unprepared church to have a process in place to take men and give them right next steps was crucial as it relates to our situation. 19 years ago, 1.4 million of us gathered in DC uh on the mall for Standing the Gap. Were those guys today? Have they been able to be received back into disciple-making uh venues where they can grow in advance in their faith?

Yeah, yeah. I tell people a lot of pastors today are praying for a Book of Acts revival, which we all want to see—a Book of Acts revival—but what if God blessed that and 3,000 people came to faith in Christ? Would you have the infrastructure to disciple 3,000 people? You know, so I think I think that's a great point is that you know we're we're we're asking God to do something, but we don't have a plan. And as Bill H always says, if you don't have a plan, you're not real serious about it. Uh, let me say one thing about why I think we've been kind of overlooking discipleship. Another insight I found—not to pick on the King James, by the way, by the way, I love the King James—did I say that? I say I love the King James, and you may use the King—let me just say this officially: Robbie loves the King James.

Yeah, thank you. Thank you, Bobby. Thank you. Um, but let me just say this too: in 1920, all the translations changed. So New King James, NIV, NLT, ESV, Holman, NASB, RSV—they all have "Go, go therefore, make disciples." It's only the older versions… Here's another interesting insight: Ephesians 4:11-12 and 13. You guys are familiar with this: "And he gave the apostles, prophets, evangelists, shepherds and teachers, to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for the building up of the body of Christ." Do you know how the original King James translates that one? Go back and look at it: "And he gave the apostles, prophets, evangelists, shepherds and teachers, to perfect the saints, comma, to do the work of ministry, comma, to build up the body of Christ, colon," or or or period. So here's the point: for years, I think we have had the mentors, the clergy, the pastor preachers thinking their job was threefold, right? My job is to equip the saints, or perfect the saints, to do the work of ministry myself, and to build up the body. And so we know that there are no commas in the original Greek—that's a uh the supplementary item from the translator. So for years, years, and once again, 1920s they changed this—I think for years we have been paralyzed with the Holy Man-myth, and that is the idea that only trained pastors and leaders can accomplish ministry. Why? Because they have a more direct line to God. And I think that has perpetuated the chasm between the pew and the pulpit, because what happens is good-meaning Christians have come, and they thought, "Well, the only thing I can do is listen to a sermon while the pastor does all the ministry." And I and I believe that we could see Matthew 24:14: "The the gospel will be preached to all nations, and then the end will come." That's what Jesus said. So I really—we don't know how many nations—I don't know how many people of each nation—we don't how many people of each nation—but we know Jesus said when the gospel is preached to the end of the world or to all nations, the end will come. Here's the point: could it be that the resources to reach the world, to finish the Great Commission, are staring at us every week in the churches across the world? There are the men and women who are—and we don't have to win another person to Jesus. I think we could take the people we already have right now and change the world uh if we got serious about being discipled first.

Let me just say something that's behind uh what Robbie's advocating, and I totally believe the same thing: you know, restoring the faith of the Bible, restoring the Christianity of the Bible, restoring uh Jesus' intention is what healthy movements always do. There's always this going back and saying, "Are we getting it right?" And these are ways that God's showing us new things that we we want to get back to or to apply today. And and at the midst of what's happening right now is an opportunity to say, "Let's go back and say what is it really all about to be a Christian?" Because the foundations of uh the faith in in in this country have totally been shaken and will continue to be shaken. And the good news about that is people are open now to saying, "Hey, maybe we missed making disciples and looking at the way Jesus made disciples." Now I want to ask uh Dr. Coleman to jump in here, but I'd like to tell you all uh just real quickly the basis out of which his book came 53 years ago: he was a rookie seminary professor who was assigned to teach a class on evangelism. And so he started researching for material on evangelism, and he could and find books that he really liked. So he started reading through the Gospels and asking, "How did Jesus do it? How did Jesus do it?" And he kept reading through the Gospels, and then he started teaching it to his seminary students, and it was like water to thirsty men, and they would listen to him describing the principles because he said this: when it came to winning the world, Jesus had—here's his expression—"a master plan," and if we would get back to that master plan today, there's no telling what God will do amongst us. So Dr. Coleman, we want you to jump in here, and well, you summed it—summed it up I think better than I could.

For me, I had to work a while before I saw how to apply it to my life, because I had been taught and trained to think in terms of special callings and gifts, like pastor—someone who's in a position of superior leadership in the church—and I realized that those that Jesus discipled were not members of the Levitical priesthood; they hadn't even been to seminary, and in fact, as far as we know, they hadn't been to college. They were fishermen, tax collectors, my goodness, businessmen. And I began to realize, "I've got to look at callings in a different way and gifts," but I had been missing—the Great Commission is not a gift; it is a command to the whole body of Christ, every follower of Jesus. And when I saw that, yeah, this is the priesthood of all believers, because we're all followers of Christ, and it is a way of life; it is a lifestyle. And everybody who's alive then can make disciples. Whatever your gift or whatever your special calling or wherever God plants you, you as a human being can make disciples. And Jesus said, "I am the way." Well, we don't follow just a program or a technique; we follow a person who lived out the Great—Great Commission with those that were closest to him. They could see it, and at the end of the way, he simply told his followers, his disciples, to go and replicate what they had seen in the life of Jesus. That's our command. It's very simple when you recognize that we can identify there—the hard part is practicing it, because it has to become an intentional way of life. It doesn't happen just because you go to school or because you get a degree; it has to be an intentional way of focusing your life upon what Jesus gave his life for when he came into the world—not to be served but to serve and to give his life a ransom for many. The cross—cross was in his mind when he came; he had already known that he would die. He was the Lamb of God slain before the worlds were made. And with that consciousness of the Cross being a reality in his life all the way from the beginning, every step he took was in fulfillment of his Great Commission. And indeed, that gets a purpose for us, gives us a direction, and it gives us an example to follow—not in theory, not in technical theology, but in the lifestyle of a person who lived among us and suffered like we suffer and learned obedience through suffering. And we can't circumvent any of those steps if we're going to to truly make disciples who in turn will make disciples, with the objective of reaching all the nations, for this was in God's mind from the beginning, because God so loved the world that he gave himself—his Son—that whoever believed in him would not perish. Oh, what a way of life! And that is the way that we follow Jesus. He gave us the great commandment to love just like God loves the world, but then to love your neighbor as you love yourself. Love is a choice that we make, and we have to make that choice as we follow him. And "He that has my commandments and keeps them," Jesus said, "is the one who loves me," and it becomes an intentional way of life, following Jesus. It's that simple: just look at him, and he is the way and the truth and the life. And thankfully, he's not finished with any of us yet. Do that—give you some hope. The best is yet to be. Come on, come on, come on! Amen.

So Dr. Coleman, you uh you quite a phrased a few years ago that I've adopted: "the discipleship lifestyle," which is being a disciple who makes disciples, and uh you've been trying to live that out now from before you wrote that book. Because by the time the book was published, I believe it was in 1963, you'd already had several versions of it. You've been living it out. If you had to go back through time as you've learned all these lessons, has any of your core—have any of your core convictions uh changed about the importance of Jesus' method of making disciples?

Well, I've come to see some of those principles a little more clearly, and I'm still learning—thankfully, God still has a lot more to teach me—but he's given us the promise of eternity; we'll have all eternity to explore the dimensions of God's love and direction. But I've come to see—it all comes out of the principle of incarnation, and that's the foundation upon what I call the master plan. It was so obvious, I didn't list it as one of the principles because it's on every page of the book. So, and the principle of incarnation is the fact that God loved us so much he came into our world to be with us, to be with us, and and to show us how he could fulfill his plan. He simply said, "Follow me; I am the way." And the Incarnation is a reality in our lives as by the Holy Spirit he is with us now, always, even to the end of the age. And so the Great Commission ends.

With that great promise in the Bible, where is one greater than the fact that Jesus, Jesus Christ himself is here with us? And he said, the Spirit is the one who will take the things of mine; he'll he'll show them to you. He won't talk about himself, but he will glorify me. No, you get the attention on Jesus, but you are the one that stands in the way. They have to see Jesus reflected in you. Well, how is that possible? Only by the Spirit of Jesus Christ in you. Amen. He's the one that makes disciples. You may be an instrument through which he can do his work, but the Spirit is is the one who does it. Well, that puts us in a different relationship now. It's it's his ministry, and we participate in it. But what a burden that takes off! I don't have to do any more than to surrender my life, to trust him, and to believe him to fulfill his commission, and he will fulfill it. And any activity that is in contradiction to the will of God is wasted energy. That's why I know the Great Commission is fulfilled. I've read the Book of Revelation, for example, chapter 7, where you have this great company clothed in white robes, speaking of their purity, waving palm branches symbolical of their joy, and we're told they come from every tongue, every tribe, every people, every nation. The Great Commission is already fulfilled in the mind of God. We just live on this side of its fulfillment, but it's accomplished. And any activity now that doesn't contribute to that Destiny is an exercise in futility. Because, as Rob said, nothing finally will remain except our loving God and his word, and the souls of men and women. And when God made us in His image, he made us in his likeness, so that we by choice could love him as he loves us. Oh, and because of his grace and his Spirit working in our lives, he wants us not just to love him, but to have our joy in him forever. I say hallelujah. Amen.

Question number one of the Westminster Westminster Confession is, right, what is the chief aim of man? And the answer, number one, to glorify God and enjoy him. That's her joy. The joy of the Lord is our strength. I tell my students, I want to hear some shouts on this campus! Let people know we're alive! Come on, we have a great Savior. He's met the enemy and defeated him, and he rose from the grave. We're moving in that direction. Come on! Oh, what a joy it is to follow one who's already won the victory! Yes, and nothing in this world is worth keeping. That's right, nor trying to preserve. We're going to give it all up someday. I'm going through the last stages of pancreatic cancer with my wife. You only have three or four more months at to most, maybe weeks. Teach you to number your days. All of us need to be numbering our days. That's right, for whether it's short or long, we're on our way out of this world, and we want to look to the world that is eternal. God had something better for us in the beginning. He made a world that would just teach us about the world that is coming--an eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, nor even entered into the heart of man, the glory and the things that are to come for those that love him. Doesn't it blow your mind just to imagine it? That's the real world. You read the Narnia Chronicles of Narnia, and you come to the last battle, and C.S. Lewis made it so beautiful. You realize at the end that Narnia, that you think was a happy place in this world, is not the real world. This is a shadow land. The real world of Narnia is to come. However you look at it, the real world is where God is bringing together finally a people from all the nations. You know, there's no distinction in the Bible between home missions and foreign missions, just one world. God loves us all, and he has envisioned a place where finally we will be one body, one faith, one baptism, one Lord of all, overall. Oh, we've got something to look forward to. Amen. Doesn't it? True. Amen. Just to think about it. And so we've got the greatest cause on Earth. I mean, right now I'm just listening to to you preaching away. By the way, let's Hallelujah! Let's do some amens and clapping. [Applause] And I mean, fresh wind, disciple, fresh wind is blowing. Disciple making is the greatest cause on planet Earth, because it's what did Jesus do? He came to seek and save the lost, and he invested his best time in discipling people. And can we love any better than Jesus loves? And the priorities then that were Jesus' priorities, the more we become like him, will be expressing itself in the way we love one another. This is this is so important.

Well, in the in the uh uh few minutes that we have left, gentlemen, uh I would like for each of you to share with uh with those who've gathered with us some um encouragement and exhortation in leaving here. What are here some specific things, Robbie, that we can do to start this revolution, this revolution that you've talked about, this uh Revolution that could be a part of the return of Jesus, where we're calling men and women in the time that we have left to turn their lives over to Jesus and to become his disciples? What are some practical exhortations and injunctions that we can take away from here today? Yeah, um the reason I think it's um a Reformation is if you think in the course of human history, the two greatest movements uh were movements that went back in time in order to take giant leaps forward in time, and that were those were the Reformation and the Renaissance. And that's why I really believe discipleship, it's it's not anything new. We're not telling anything new. Dr. Coleman 53 years ago didn't write anything new; he actually was talking about something very old and uh but it was fresh and was relevant, and I think it's happening today. Here's what I would say: uh the greatest spiritual thing you can do is to now think of names of men and women who you can go home and start investing in. Um, you know, it's sad, um one of the guys was talking about he went into a church, one of the guys I can't remember who it was, went into a church and uh the church wouldn't have any any traction with making disciples with the people. He asked the leaders how many of the leaders are making disciples? None of them. So remember, you can't expect what you what you don't emulate. But here's one of the things I challenge you to think about: those of you in ministry, we're all in ministry, those of us in full-time ministry, you can lose your church and keep your family, but if you lose your family, you lose them both. You lose them both. And one of the one of the surprising benefits of disciple making for us, what what our team has found, and I'm sure what these guys have found, is that I think discipleship is also the answer to burnout and failure in ministry. Here's why: I'm not prone to stay in the word like I should; I'm not prone to memorize the word like I should; I wander from loving my wife the way I should. If I didn't have a man looking me in the eye every single week saying, "Are you loving your wife? Are you in the word? Or how's your prayer time?" I would stray, even me. Just it's easy to get off course. Why why does 70% of pastors have no friend in the ministry? I think because they're not involved in a discipling relationship. So I would say, here's the challenge: don't neglect your children by walking past the nursery on Wednesday night to disciple people in your office. And uh one of the ways I did that is just being intentional with my kids. And remember your kids are going to watch more what you do than what you say. So as a as my boys grow up, we've always read the word and memorized and prayed together every night. Every night we did this. And I never forget one night uh I tried to get to bed early with my son. I've got two boys, eight and six; they just made eight and six, Rig and Ryder. And uh I said, "Listen, it's time to go to bed," and I was trying to hurry him up because, you know, you get busy sometimes, we don't have time for this. So hurried him in the bed, turned the lights, while we got in bed, Rig's in the bed, and he pops up and he says, "Daddy, we didn't do our quiet time." I said, "Son, shut up! It is quiet time! Be quiet!" You know, but I really got convicted because I thought, "You know what? He's watching everything I'm doing," and and we're building in them habits at an early age. So I would just say all that to say, don't neglect your kids. Don't don't don't don't be excited because your church is going to hell while your family or your church is going to heaven while your family goes to hell. Okay? And granted, obviously God's in that providentially. God calls, God saves. I know that, but uh we want to create an environment in the home--the first church is our church of the home, right? First church of our home. So that's what I would say.

Good. J, what an honor to be at this Gathering and tremendous ministry equipping has taken place, and what an honor to be with some seasoned veterans, uh the Babe Ruth and Luke Garri of the discipleship movement. Our founder, Patrick Morley, also a seasoned veteran, uh came to a crossroads in his life 10 years into a spiritual journey. He became a self-proclaimed cultural Christian, loving this life more than the next, and he says in his God story he was living by The Fifth Gospel: Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, and Pat. He brought along those things he were he was in agreement with in scripture, those things that he felt like was too much of a challenge, calling him to that fully surrendered life, he just stayed away from. But he came to a crossroads moment, and he said, "This was the turning point: there is a God who is, and there's a God we want; they are not the same God." The turning point of our lives is when we stop seeking the God we want and we start seeking The God Who is. You and I have a commission to go forward from this, and one of our challenges at Man in the Mirror, we can accomplish so much more together than any of us can alone. So I hope that we didn't come here as 10 key ministries providing tracks and uh 610 individuals, but we believe truly as the body of Christ, we will lock arms, we will continue to network, we will look for ministry overlap and desire to carry out this Great Commission we've been compelled to reach. That's good. B, well there's so much that I could say, but I think what I will say is the importance of mentors and the importance of hanging out with the right people. And I just think of Clen here, and I first met him a long time ago, many many years ago, and over the years we've had some good times and uh we've he helped me a lot more than I've ever helped him, but I just feel so privileged to have had so many good men who are disciple makers. I can think of several of them, like Bill Bright and the influence he had in my life, or uh a guy named Howard Ball who taught me many years ago about what it really meant to make disciples in a local church, and Wally Norling who was the superintendent of my district when I was a young pastor, and there have been so many more, and they taught me to be humble and to learn. And I remember uh Wally Norling one time I went to see him after I was having some problems in my church, and essentially I said, "Wally, they they say that I'm not loving them," and I'm talking about discipleship. I'm I'm saying things like, "Discipleship is the name of the game; it's the only game in town. In fact, if you're not interested in disciple making, why are you even here? Why aren't you playing golf or something?" And so I was confused about why I wasn't getting along with people, so I went to see him and I said, "Well, W- they these people just aren't with it; they they don't want to be disciples," and he said, "Well, Bill, I've had a call from a few of them." All right? And I said, "You know, I'm they say I'm cold and aloof and and all that, and I'm not," and so he says, "Well, Bill, here's what you should do: on Sunday after you finish your sermon, you should tell these people, 'I'd just like to hold you for a couple couple of minutes,' and here's what you tell them: 'You know, I do love you, and I do care about you, and I so desperately want to lead you where God has called us to be disciples and make disciples, but I I'm having an awfully difficult time getting out of my heart out to you.'" And I said, "Wally, I can't say that to them because they'll think that I have a problem." He says, "Bill, they already know you have a problem." All right? So I did that what he said, and then I added on to that, "I need to learn to love; would you teach me to love?" And those people, many of them today, they salvaged me; they saved me; they taught me how to love, and some of them are my very best friends right now. And what those mentors taught me, like Wally, was to have nothing to prove and simply to learn to love people, and but yet to love them as Christ loved them, and love them in such a way that you lead them. And to me, just having those kinds of people in my life uh has been my salvation with respect to why I'm even sitting here today. Wow. Well, I I just just have to tell you in front of all these people that I have found you to be a truly loving, Christlike man, and uh thank you so much for that. In fact, it's characteristic. I was teasing both you and Dr. Coleman. I will say, if I had to have one word that would sum up my experience with both of you um in terms of your emphasis with disciple making and discipleship, it's that you love really well. And I say that of both of you.

Well, thank you all uh for being here. Uh I do want to ask you all to stay because uh the way we would like to end our time together now will be I think uh really spiritually significant. I'd like to ask uh Ariana if you could come out, and Ariana, uh we want you to know about some next steps, uh and then uh Bill I'm going to give you an opportunity to say a few words more. Hello. Hasn't this been amazing? Oh, so so good. So good. On the back of the brochure that you have, it's already set up for next year, November 7th and 8th of 2017. So right now you can actually go to um discipleship.org, and you can go ahead and register for next year right now. Also, you can sign up for the newsletter on discipleship.org, and our goal is to go ahead and put up the talks from this uh forum, and so that's a desire, so you can go ahead, but you do need to sign up for the newsletter so that you would be able to get access to those talks, and those will be available online. Thank you, Ariana. You're welcome. Well, I'd like to say a few words as we're going to transition here, and and uh Bill's going to say a few words. Um I would like to ask everybody associated uh with discipleship.org, especially Christine, Neil, Kathy Coli, and most especially Gary Tanner, would you all please stand? Because uh they have all been wonderful servants. I see Jeb Cam, you guys please all stand. All those associated with discipleship.org, would you all please give them just a thank you for their efforts? See some of the back there, you all have done a great great job. Secondly, uh Robbie uh approached me when he knew we were planning to do this uh national gathering, and uh he did something really phenomenal that I took as the hand of the Lord: he offered the facilities of Long Hollow, and not just the facilities, but your staff to support us, and several of my folks came to me independently and said, "The people at Long Hollow have been phenomenal; they're all they're all servants with a great attitude," and that reflects a great church culture. So, Robbie, we want to thank you as well for hosting this. We really appreciate all of you. Well, Bill, I'm going to turn it over to you.

I first met Robert Coleman, or as Clen, as we like to call him, because he he is just an old cowboy from Texas, and he's tough as an old boot too, but his heart's on fire. That's so what what wonderful about him. And I met him in 1969, but I actually met him about a year earlier in through his book, *The Master Plan*. I was a student at Asbury University, and Bob Stamps, who was the chaplain, he gave me this book. He says, "You have to read it." It was a little yellow book about 110 pages long, and it is the gold standard for the disciple making MVE movement, because what it really says is, "This is God's plan for reaching the whole world, and when we reach the plan, then the end will come, and we shouldn't forget that that's what it's about." But then in 1969, Jane and I, I was trying to get into Asbury Seminary, and I'm an Asbury Seminary reject; they never let me in. But we lived there for the summer, and that's when I first first met Clen, and uh he doesn't remember this, but I do, that Jane and I babysat his children one evening while he went somewhere where he and his wife went, some I don't know where they were; don't remember that. But I do remember that we babysat, and then we moved on and uh to other parts of the United States. But then for years uh I followed him and read his books, and he's written many many books. Uh he he was a a rare find, Dr. Coleman, in that he is an a firebrand preacher but also a scholar. He went to Princeton Theological Seminary when Einstein was there. He said that Professor Einstein used to walk by the house where he lived. Some great stories about those days at Princeton University. And he went on to get a PhD, and and then our paths crossed again back in the early 80s when I began to write, and when I when I wrote one of my first books, *The Disciple-Making Pastor*, he was kind enough to write the forward. It was during those days when he was at Trinity Evangelical Divinity School, and he was head of the school of World Mission. And I remember going up to Trinity, and there he was uh had his boys uh the people that would meet with him every day, and he's been doing that now for over 60 years. And a couple of years ago at Exponential, I was sitting next to him, and he has that Bible with him. Uh Clen, why don't you hold up your Bible? I'll hold it up for you. This Bible, uh if you can see it on the screen, it's uh got electric tape on it; it's pretty beat up. And I was kind of making fun of his Bible, and I said, "Maybe we should take up a collection and get you a new Bible," and he says, "No, oh no, I like that Bible." And he opened it up, and he I saw a list of names, and going down through the pages, page after page after page of names, hundreds of names, and these hundreds of names were his boys, the people that he has invested in in his life. And I thought just then, a life well lived, a life invested in fourth soil people, remarkable because fourth soil people multiply, and his boys are all over the world right now, and I'm sure they've touched millions and millions of people for Jesus Christ, and it'll be a great rejoicing in heaven when they all get together again. It'll be wonderful, absolutely marvelous. And we wanted to recognize Dr. Coleman, and we uh Bobby and I were discussing this, and we thought this is an award that first should go to him and then bear his name in the future: the Robert Coleman Award, Disciple Maker Award for Distinguished Service to Christ in his kingdom. And so, Dr. Coleman, we want to present this with you to you right now. So if you just stand up and make your way over here, it says, "Because you're 88 years young," here you are, the one guy that makes me feel like a kid. 2016 Disciple Maker Award presented to Dr. Robert Coleman for distinguished service in championing Jesus' way of disciple making, presented by

discipleship.org. So, Dr. Coleman, congratulations. Thank you, thank you. And we—you don't need to stand. Not—not for me, but thank you for those kind words, Bill, of which I certainly am unworthy. And I am humbled to be here in the presence of so many wonderful followers of Jesus. And I have to confess, you don't know all of my failings and my blunders, or my sins, Bill. That's well—that you didn't go into that. But God is—is rich in His mercy to those that fear Him. And we don't live with our hopes in uh, what we were, but what we are going to be. And the best is yet to come. And that's that joy that grows as we get closer to the celestial City. My wife is looking toward that City now, and this is the only place I agreed to come since I learned of the diagnosis. Bobby said I could get away earlier—uh, wouldn't take but just a few hours. But I want to say, when you're looking to the New Jerusalem, this world looks awfully small and cheap. There's nothing down here that you want to hold on to too tightly. But all the joy that is before us someday—there's going to be a reunion in the sky. Let's look forward to that, and our numbers will be unbroken as we look around and see others that we helped along the way. I don't think we're all individually responsible, because there are others that will compensate for our failures. They'll pick up where we leave off. Aren't you glad they'll compensate for our shortcomings? We're in this together, because ultimately this is the work of the whole church. Some of us, for a few years, with a few people, may have had a special influence on someone, or maybe a small group. But the day is coming when we're all going to gather again, and then we can tell our stories. Oh, what a day of rejoicing that will be. Amen. Thank you for the privilege of being here.

Well, thank you. Um, you know, the—the Apostle Paul in First Corinthians said, "Imitate me as I imitate Christ," and that's the spirit that we wanted to honor. You help us to see Jesus more clearly, and the life that He lived more distinctly, and you inspire us to want to follow His example. Dr. Coleman, I'd like to ask you if you would say a prayer of blessing over the—the—the leaders of the 10 groups who've come. In fact, I'd like to ask uh, each of you uh, if you'll come up and uh, before—stand on the stairs before us, and—and if you'd pray over us. And as Dr. Coleman prays for them, uh, we'd also like him to pray for each of you, and for you all to stand uh, to receive that blessing. So uh, Dan and Craig and Jim, uh, if you'd all come up here. Uh, Robbie and Jeff and Bill, if—let's all come out here, and Dr. Coleman will uh, lead us in a prayer. In fact, if you all would step down just a few steps there, so that—beyond—beyond us is—we're all here together. And uh, after that, the band is going to help us to praise God as we come to a close, and then we'll have uh, a benediction at the end. And I'm going to get down here with these men.

Our Father, we come in the precious name of Jesus to worship You and to adore You, and to enjoin that host who are gathered now around Your throne, who never cease to praise You. And we look forward to the day when all of Your people will be together, and we can join them in that everlasting song to give glory to the Lamb who has borne our sins away. And how we are grateful for those of this group who have been leading others and formed little organizations and fellowships who have made possible this Gathering, but who are still reaching out to others. These are men who have—who have led the way for others to follow them to make disciples. Oh, how patient You've been with us, Lord. You haven't rewarded us according to our iniquities, but only according to Your infinite grace. Oh, it staggers us just to think of such love—that even while we were sinners, You still loved us. Thank You, Jesus. And You're not finished; You're still teaching us, and we surely—oh, there is so much more to learn. But You've taught us to seek first Your kingdom. You've taught us to look at those that You love and to hold out a hand to help them along the way, that they might come to know You, who alone has the word of eternal life. And You've taught us to set our priorities in the order of those values that are eternal—not to invest in that which fades away, but commit ourselves to those truths that grow only sweeter and more precious as the years unfold and never end. Thank You, Father, for those that have helped us along the way, but for these leaders this day who are standing before us, we ask for them a special blessing, Lord. They carry heavy burdens and responsibilities—far more than any human can really fulfill. But we affirm You are able; nothing is too hard for You. And be pleased, Lord, to multiply this fellowship and raise up increasing leaders who will disciple others and bring them—until we come finally to the day at last—the kingdom comes, and every knee will bow before You, and every tongue will declare to the glory of the Father, Jesus, You are Lord. Oh, blessed, blessed is the name of Jesus. Amen.

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